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Episode 91 Transcript: The Best Supernatural Episode of All Time…?

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many, many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 5, Episode 9: "The Real Ghostbusters," written by Eric Kripke and Nancy Weiner, directed by James L. Conway.

C: Rare Eric Kripke W.

G: Is this or is this not the best episode of all time?

C: I think it is!

G: I think it well may be. It's so good. [C: It is!] It's generally a wonderful episode. [C: Like, I enjoyed myself.] I can't believe I'm going- [laughs] BABPod is not the place to be saying shit like, "I love this episode!" [C laughs] but this episode was truly amazing. It was.

C: I don't think I've really heard an opinion on this episode either way, but more people should be saying that it's the best episode ever. [G: Exactly.] I think what it is is that it follows "Changing Channels," [G: Yeah.] and "Changing Channels" is known as the funny one. [G: Iconic, yeah.] And iconic, and all that. So it is weird to have another "the funny one" right after. But it's fine due to-

G: This one is leagues better. [C: Yeah.] It's leagues better than "Changing Channels," and I think, you know what? Leagues better than "French Mistake" [C: Mm.] too. "Fan Fiction," in comparison, I'm not sure. I'm gonna be holding out on that one.

C: Interesting. So you consider "Fan Fiction" better than "French Mistake" and "Changing Channels," then.

G: Yes. If we're gonna be ranking them, I would say this is close to my affinity to "Fan Fiction." I like "Fan Fiction." [C: Okay.] And there we go. This is a good episode. We loved it. [C laughs] Crystal, as always, watched this episode before I did, and asked me if I've watched it, and I went, "Ah, not sure. I'll probably hate it or whatever." And Crystal went, "I don't think you will!" [laughs] which is like, the first time a statement as such [both laughing] has been shared between the two of us. [C: This is true.] Yeah. And Crystal also used the pun "I chuckled surely," which is truly a wonderful, amazing statement. [C: Thank you. Thank you.] And I just wanted to share to everyone, because it's so funny. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, I'm sure everyone back home is just guffawing in their seats. [G laughs] Well. [C laughs]

G: At "chuckled surely," which is a pun that does not work when said out loud, like, "Yeah, of course."

C: I mean, his name is Chuck Shurley. The sounds are in it, like, out loud, also.

G: Yeah, but like, I feel like it's funnier when you see it, like, visually. [C: Perhaps.] Just read the transcript. Pretend you've never heard of this, and then go to the transcript and go, "Haha! This is so funny."

C: Okay, so the transcript, should I respell "surely" as his last name, or like-

G: No! [C: No?] You spell it as "chuckle surely" as you have done in the past.

C: Alright, alright, alright. [G: Yes. Wow.] I'll stick to historical precedents.

G: Exactly. Well, what did you know about this episode before going in?

C: So I knew that this was where the Becky/Chuck relationship would begin. I knew there would be the characters that I had been previously been calling "the Wincest roleplayers," but like, [G: They're not!] that was an unfair characterization. [G: They were fine!] They were not roleplaying Wincest. [G laughs] They were just two men who were a couple who were also roleplaying Sam and Dean but were not roleplaying Sam and Dean as a couple, so I'm sorry [G: Yeah!] to all the slander in the past.

G: And they were perfectly wonderful! [C: Yeah.] They were amazing characters.

C: Yeah, they were fun. And I also know that there's like, a shot of like, Chuck standing in front of a convention of people and [G: Hands are raised.] asking questions, and then, yeah, all the hands are raised because we use that screenshot for our Q&As that [laughs] nobody sends questions for. So yeah.

G: Hey! Season 1 to 3 people sent in questions. [C: Yeah.] Season 4, we fell the fuck off, but that's okay. [laughs]

C: Yeah. Yeah. Well, perhaps Season 5, there will be questions again.

G: No. I don't think we will ask for questions anymore because I'm embarrassed. [both laughing]

C: You were the one who was just like, "You know, the first 3 out of 4 seasons, we got plenty of questions, Crystal!" [both laugh] One no-questions season is enough for you?

G: Yeah, and I've given up completely. Yeah. You can still send in questions, everyone, and we will answer them, but we will not make a call to action anymore [both laughing] is what we're gonna do. [C: Alright. Alright.] Is that all?

C: Yeah, basically. I mean, that's most of it, isn't it?

G: That's most of the episode. It's just the execution is excellent, which is what makes it really pop. [C: Mm.] I mean, this one is written by Eric Kripke, which is not a frequent writer of middle episodes. [C: Right.] And there was a point here where I was like, "God, Eric Kripke wishes he was as funny, cool, charismatic, and wonderful as Chuck!" [C laughs] And then I was like, "Wait, he wrote this episode. He literally fucking does."

C: Ugh. Very sad.

G: Nobody will ever be as funny as Chuck Shurley.

C: Yeah, I mean, maybe Nancy is the reason that Chuck is funny. Maybe Eric had nothing to do with it.

G: Well, you know what? I'm ready to admit it. I think Eric is a fine writer. [laughs]

C: Huh. Okay, but Nancy Weiner was also on the team for "Monster At the End of This Book," so like-

G: Is this really? [C: Uh-huh.] Okay, well, I'm not ready to admit anything other than Nancy Weiner is a good writer, maybe.

C: Exactly. Like, "Monster At the End of This Book" was written by Julie Siege, but Nancy Weiner was a writer's assistant who was in the "story by" credits for "Monster At the End of This Book," so I feel like she has more claim to Chuck than Eric Kripke does.

G: To Chuck, yeah. Chuck is her like, pet project, perhaps.

C: Perhaps. Her and Julie Siege's.

G: We start the episode with a teaser that made me go, "Oh, I'm watching the wrong episode!" [C: Yeah, same!] But I wasn't. Yeah, what is it? What is the beginning? It was like, Sam calling Dean, like-

C: It's the scene in "Asylum" where Sam goes like, "I'm not pathetic like you." [G: "Like you!"] Ugh. So hot.

G: Yeah. And then I was like, scouring my brain like, "What? Wait? Where did they use it this episode?" And it is literally just like [both laugh] the two Sam and Dean LARPers being like, "Ugh, Dean, you should kill yourself!" [C laughs] or whatever it is that Sam says. It's so iconic. You know what? You remember when I was like, "Crystal, you're such a loser for playing DnD?" [C: Uh-huh.] I fully get it now, I think. [C laughs] Like, this episode [laughing] has changed my mind on DnD and also, like, just roleplay in general. [C: Uh-huh.] It will work on me so severely. [C: Congrats.] So, so severely. [C: You do do the voices.] But maybe the difference is like, the difference is like, original character versus playing a character that already exists, which is the difference. So yeah, maybe, I don't know. I'm a nerd, is what we're learning.

The episode begins with Sam and Dean like, really driving through fucking US of A. And they're like, really tense. They're running, they're running. And then they go up. And- You know what? Sam really is the contact point with Chuck, isn't he? [C: Mm, that's true.] They're really- they're meant to be. [C: They are meant to be.] More and more, I'm like, "They should have gotten together," and I'm being so sincere. [laughs] [C: Yeah. They should have.] I'm not even kidding. You know how people, like, girlfriend-ify Cas's height? [C: Uh-huh.] Like, they make him shorter?

C: Uh-huh. Chuck has a very girlfriend-ifiable height already, doesn't he?

G: Yeah, you don't need to change anything with Chuck. [laughs] Like, that's girlfriend height. [both laughing] I'm so sorry for being heteronormative in this podcast. But like, so many fandoms literally do it. [C: That's true.] They also do it for Aziraphale and Crowley sometimes, which is so mind boggling to me. What are you doing?

C: They absolutely do it. Like, why, though?

G: And they do it for Aziraphale! Which is like, I mean, [laughs] I don't know.

C: I mean, he is technically shorter.

G: The aspects are mind-boggling, but like, what is happening here? Well, anyway, they arrive, and Chuck is shaken to his core about their presence. And, you know, Sam and Dean are like, "You texted us. And like, we rushed to go here." Well, specifically, [C: Chuck texted Sam.] Chuck apparently texted Sam, and what it is is, it's Becky, so of course she's gonna text Sam. But a part of me is like, "Ah! Sam read a text from Chuck that says, like, 'I'm in danger. Come here!' and he was like, 'Dean, we must go immediately!'" [C laughs] which is so important.

C: Yeah, yeah. And he doesn't even get in on any of that sweet Chuck action [G: Exactly!] because he and Becky are together by the end. Sad!

G: Sad! Becky comes in, rushes in, and she's like, "Oh my god, Sam, you're here!" And Sam says, like, "Oh, you're Becky, right?" And she's like, "You remembered. You've been thinking about me. I can't get you out of my head either." The way they do Becky [laughs] is something they should apologize for.

C: Yeah. [laughing] Yeah, the way she delivers lines and inclines her head, or whatever. It's very- it's very exaggerated. And it is very like- I don't know. They're just mocking fangirls a lot through every single thing she says and does.

G: And, I mean, she is the only fangirl, right? Because, like, the ghost lady doesn't want to be there. And like, there are other women [both] in the crowd [C: - but they don't speak.], but we meet them. Yeah, we don't meet them. So she is, like, the representation of the fangirl in Supernatural. [C: Yes.] So yeah, kinda- I don't like it. [C: Nor I.] But yeah. We will continue to not like it, I suppose, until Season 7.

C: Until Season 15.

G: I mean, Season 15-

C: Until. I think she's fine in 15.03, but she will be bad up until then.

G: And then they kill her.

C: Ah, unfort, yeah.

G: I'm not sure, actually. Maybe they don't.

C: No, they do. Chuck snaps his fingers, and she goes into dust.

G: Okay. Oh, sad! Becky apparently took Chuck's phone, and the way she says it is "I didn't take it! I just borrowed it from your pants!"

C: Yeah, so I thought they were like, already together [G: Together already!], yeah, by this point. [G: But apparently not.] Right. So like, her role in his life right now, is it- Is she, like, co-organizer of this con? [G: Probably. Probably.] Yeah, okay, so they have some form of business partnership.

G: I mean, there is an organizer already. Like, there's a different guy who is the organizer, the one who calls Chuck and everything and announces stuff. [C: Hmm.] So like, I don't know. Maybe Becky's just there also.

C: Huh! Like, she just showed up early? [G: It's a possibility, yeah.] I guess. But like, they just seem to have, like, a rapport. [G: Yeah.] I guess it doesn't have to be a business relationship. Maybe they just kept being Internet friends or whatever after 5.01?

G: I mean- Yeah, it could be. I'm apprehensive of that. But yeah, I see the vision.

C: Yeah, I don't really know, but yeah. It's hard for me to- I don't know what she's been doing since 5.01. Like, clearly something.

G: Yeah. So a guy calls in Chuck, and Chuck's like, "I'm so sorry, Sam and Dean, for what you are about to see." [C laughs] And what they are about to see is, they enter, like, a hotel lobby, and they see a guy who is wearing a leather jacket, just like Dean Winchester. And they greet him- I mean, the guy greets them. And yeah, Dean is like, "Man, who the hell are you?" And the guy goes, "I'm Dean, too. Duh!" [C laughs] And if I'm being so for real right now, first thought, immediately upon seeing this guy, "Damn. That's a really good Dean jacket. [C laughs] I wonder he got it!" [both laugh] I already have a Dean jacket, so I should not be greedy, and I should not be an overconsumption person. However. [C: However.] I don't know. I love a leather jacket. [C: Yeah.] So that's unfortunate. And I'll never be able to wear it until like, the peak of when it's not hot because it's so hot, so that's horrible. [C: Sad!] Maybe I should just wear it in my room so I can sate my [laughs] lifelong desires of being secretly Dean Winchester. [C: Sure, you could.] This is what I'm saying. This will 100% work on me. Like, it's not even- I'm not even joking. [C laughs] If there was a Supernatural convention that wasn't the convention circuit of today, I think I would be there, no matter what, like, honestly. [C laughs] Maybe I'll get a US visa and everything. [C: So true.]

They come in. There's more people. Yeah, it's- [laughs] there's like, a clown, there's a fucking Hook Man, a scarecrow, some random ghosts. It's wonderful, honestly! There's a guy who's like, Ash, like, with the mullet and everything. [C: Yeah.] And there's a lot of merch, and there's a lot of books, and Becky comes in, and she goes, "It's a Supernatural convention! The first one ever. [C: Fun!] Welcome to the first annual Supernatural Convention!" [C: Yay! Fun!] Yay!

C: So a lot of this is, like, the convention circuit had started already for Supernatural, right?

G: At this point, yeah.

C: So like, was some of this like, a Eric Kripke for help?

G: Do you think?

C: I mean, Chuck is not happy to be there.

G: Is he not?

C: I don't think Chuck is happy to be there.

G: Was Eric Kripke ever active in the circuit conventions? I thought that was predominantly an actor thing.

C: The writers are there, too.

G: Yeah. What's- there is, like, an event. Is it DCBB [laughs] or is that a fanfiction event? There's one that- A big one.

C: I don't know. That sounds like the Destiel Big Bang to me, so. [G laughs]

G: Yeah! I don't think that's it. Is it SDCC? Yes, it's the Comic-Con. [C: San Diego Comic-Con.] Yeah. Which, should we say, you've been, right? You didn't pay, but you have been.

C: It wasn't like, a proper one. Like, they didn't invite like, actor people or whatever.

G: Also, by "Crystal didn't pay," I meant fully that [laughing] Crystal paid for the event. [C: What?] Didn't you just sneak in? Again, not true to everyone listening. [C: Yes.] But yeah, Crystal was there legally.

C: [laughs] Uh-huh. It's true. I was. I gave them my money, and I didn't walk past them very fast. You're right. [G laughs]

G: I mean, Supernatural was always active in that gig, I'm pretty sure. [C: Yeah, I think so.] Yeah. And like, I think that I see some writer interviews from there, so they were at least active there.

C: I know that writers have to be there because whoever killed Charlie, like, doesn't someone ask a question about that to that writer, and then the actors all turn their back on that person, but, like, only jokingly, and like, yeah, that's a clip that goes around. [G: Yeah.] I think Charlie's their apology for Becky at first, actually.

G: Yeah. [laughs] And then they had to apologize for Charlie [C: For killing Charlie.] by bringing Charlie back. [both laughing] [C: Yeah.] My god! Well, yeah. Is Eric Kripke- Does Eric Kripke hate his fans? The answer is yes. [laughs] [C: Yes.] He hates his fans that are women, and he hates that he has a female-dominated fanbase.

C: Yeah, yeah. Part of this is wish fulfillment, the crowd makeup here. It's like, a part wish fulfillment and part- I don't know. Like, they don't want people in drag? But Bobby's in- like, the Bobby person- Well, I don't know. I don't know.

G: There are definitely, I think, ones that are like, you're supposed to be like, "Oh, these people are in drag," so that's something. [C: Yeah.] Like, a beard that's drawn in or something. [C: Right. Yeah.] Just like me for real!

C: But yeah, I think Eric Kripke hates his fans and his female fans especially. I don't- The Supernatural writers don't- Who decided that cons were gonna be a thing? Was that like, the CW.

G: I think it's a different establishment. Like, it's a different corporation. Like, Creation Entertainment has cons for other stuff.

C: But like, did the CW contract with Creation Entertainment to do cons for all of their shows that reach a certain number of viewers, or like- I'm assuming, like, Eric Kripke didn't reach out to Creation Con himself to set this stuff up.

G: Yeah, I don't think it's an Eric Kripke. Well, you know what? Let's look it up.

C: How- I don't know. People love to say things about the cons. So, I don't know how to- Okay. What, like, "Who started the Supernatural conventions?" I don't know how to find this information

G: Yeah. I don't know. I also don't know. There was a time where I knew a lot about the conventions, just by virtue of being in the fandom. Like, I knew that JIBCon is the only one where they have a Misha-Jensen panel, for example, [C laughs] which is kinda crazy. [laughing]

C: I mean, yeah, I get YouTube recommendations, too. Like, we know that that is the one.

G: Yeah. I mean, not YouTube recommendations. I mean, like. if you hang out in the Tumblr tag, and because I didn't have Tumblr, I just hang out in the Tumblr tag. Like, it truly is the worst of the worst. It's a filtered on top- [laughs] I'm so sorry! I love the Supernatural fandom. Or do I? is the question of all time.

C: So apparently, the pilot of Supernatural, like, was shown at Comic-Con, like, before the show dropped, so I would assume this is a CW thing where they start by trying to get the con fanbase and then keep bringing Supernatural back. But I'm not getting specific info. Yeah, I don't think Eric Kripke has the power to demand that his pilot previews at Comic-Con. So I guess, whatever. My main point was just that I don't think any of the Supernatural writers or even actors chose the con life, and part of this episode may be Eric Kripke being like, "I hate doing this so much."

C: We are in that hotel auditorium, cutting to a little bit later. A con manager comes up to the mic and says that the panels at this convention will be "Frightened little boy: The Secret Life of Dean" and "Homoerotic subtext of Supernatural." [G laughs] What about Sam? [laughs]

G: This is of course, the topics also, in Busty Asian Beauties, the Supernatural commentary podcast.

C: Yeah, though, I mean, also, what about Sam?? Whatever. Homoerotic subtext is actually about Samchuck even though Chuck isn't-

G: It's purely about Sam.

C: Yeah, it's purely about Sam. So there. Okay then.

G: That's the Sam panel they were like, "Let's do one Dean panel and then do one Sam panel," and the Sam panel is about he's gay as hell no matter what.

C: Exactly. Sam and Dean are both standing in the back, just reacting with their faces, to all of this. And then there's a big hunt at 7PM. And then this guy introduces Chuck [G: Carver Edlund!] who looks- Yeah, good for him. He doesn't look too psyched to be there. He's very awkward.

G: I mean, he's so funny! He's so funny! I'm shocked at how amusing I find Chuck, even in all the episodes he has been so far, he's the most amusing character ever, I think. [C: Yeah, probably, actually.] The bit of him being like- the bit of him being like, "Um, this is not as- awkward- as I thought it would be," [laughs] and then he drinks water for, like, a solid minute, or whatever. Like, it is genuinely hilarious.

C: Yeah, yeah, I'm happy for him for being so funny. Again, like, all the funny that Sam doesn't have, etc. [G: Yeah.] He asks if there are any questions, and everybody raises their hand. And, as we said, basically every character here at the con is a man, and I just- that was not my impression [G: That's not true!] for- just like, based off what their books look like, it doesn't make sense to me.

G: Yeah, this is true. Like, it does- It is fascinating the way they like, in "Monster of the Week," they have like, the big fan be a woman, and then, obviously, the covers are like, pandering to women, and then-

C: Or, just people who are attracted to men. I guess maybe all the men here could be gay. Like, we know the two that we talked to are.

G: This is true! This is completely fucking true. Wow! I can't believe we were peddling heteronormative ideals [both laugh] yet again. Maybe they're all gay no matter what.

C: I mean, okay, some of them were at least also attracted to women, though, because the actors for Leticia Gore got hit up by a bunch of Dean cosplayers. But maybe they were just being in-character. Like, maybe they weren't actually interested.

G: No, I mean, everybody was- She was saying that like, "Everybody has told me that line," so. [C: Yeah. That's true.] Maybe when she was like, "They're afraid to talk to women," [laughs] it's because they're gay as well.

C: Maybe so!

G: Or they could be bisexual, just like Dean Winchester.

C: But yeah, it does seem like the target of the cover art is like, straight women. [G: Yeah, I suppose.] And the fanbase was represented as female in the past, so yeah, I don't quite understand why they changed it up here. Probably just because they were like, "We need like- We've decided that we're gonna have characters go with Sam and Dean on a hunt. And, like, icky women wouldn't be able to do it! So."

G: And there will- Maybe the mindset is like, "It's gonna be a different dynamic" or whatever. I don't know.

C: Yeah, it does suck that this is the episode-

G: I mean, the one woman that we, quote, "hunt" with, it's a completely different dynamic than the other ones because she's not a fan.

C: Right. And then the one woman who is a fan is Becky, who we are not to take seriously in any way. And then- Yeah, 'cause I feel like- Is it Day-mian or Dee-mian? What's this person's- It's Barnes and Day-mian? [G: I think it's Day-mian.] Yeah, Barnes and Demian are like, the first two fans that we're supposed to like. [G: Connect with, yeah.] 'Cause the Ghostfacers, I think, are sort of like that, but like, we're just supposed to laugh at them the whole time. But yeah, like, they're the first-

G: The Ghostfacers are not fans.

C: They're trying to do what Sam and Dean do, but they don't read the books, yeah. But yeah, these are, like, fans that we're supposed to take seriously somewhat, and like, they're also men, and that is unfortunate, especially in an episode with Becky in it. [G: Yeah.]

Chuck gets a few questions, all from men. Barnes asks how he came up with Sam and Dean in the first place, and Chuck is very nervous because said Sam and Dean are in the back going like, "What are you gonna say, Chuck? Huh? What the fuck are you gonna say, Chuck?" And he just goes, "It just came to me," which is true, I mean, he had visions. [G: Yeah.] And the next person who asks the question is dressed as the Hook Man, and Eric Kripke heard me last episode [G: Literally!] [both laughing] when I said, "Isn't it so racist that they make fun of El Salvadorian and Japanese accents, but not Patrick's Irish accent?" He was like, "I fucking got you. I understand." 'Cause this guy has a German accent, and it is absolutely for the joke.

G: And that's the whole joke. That's the whole joke of his character! Like, "Haha! [both laughing] This guy has a German accent!" It's so funny!

C: [laughing] Racism? Over!

G: God. It's hilarious that we were just talking about it, and now we're- Who would have thunk? Who would have thought that we would make it this far? [C laughing]

C: And, okay, I mean, obviously, the actual solution is to not make fun of anybody's accent [G laughs], and like, this is a larger thing [G: That exists, yeah.] that Supernatural's being very US-centric. [G: Yeah.] [laughing] But also, like, I'm somewhat satisfied. [both laughing]

G: The satisfaction comes from the fact that we brought it up in the past. [C: Yeah.] Like, if we never talked about Patrick in that way, this would be like, "God, Supernatural is so American-centric, and like, so US-centric. [C: Exactly.] That is so annoying." But because we did claim [both laughing] to want equality in terms of accents to make fun of, well, here we are. You reap what you fucking sow.

C: Here we are. Thank you, Eric Kripke and Nancy Weiner. He asks why, in every fight scene, Sam and Dean always have their gun knocked away when they should just keep it on some kind of bungee, [G: Literally.] and Sam's like, "Huh. You know what? That's a good idea."

G: Well, first of all, here, they're like, "That's so stupid." I think is still the vibe, but later they're like-

C: Sam is giving a thoughtful look at it. [G: Wow!] I think Dean has the "That's so stupid" face. But I think we just looked at different portions of the screen.

G: I mean, this is true. Sam is an early investor in technology, is what it is.

C: [laughs] Yes, exactly. God. Sam owns an Apple Watch. I know it.

G: Sam definitely, 100%. He uses an Apple Watch later. Maybe not an Apple Watch-

C: Wait, like, in the show? No.

G: Yeah, like, he's running and he checks his heartbeat. I'm so serious.

C: That's like, a FitBit, though. That's different.

G: Okay, fine. When he sees Eileen, this is how he does it. Like, he's jogging, he checks his watch, [C laughs] and Eileen is there. Like, it's so iconic.

C: But yeah, Chuck can't answer this one. And then the guy goes, "Ja, follow up." [both laugh]

G: Just like me for real, a person who says "Ya" in every single conversation, through text.

C: And he says that it's obvious that Ruby is evil and manipulating Sam into some kind of moral lapse. He goes, "It's obvious, nein?" And Sam doesn't look very happy at this. Sorry to Sam about this. Like, Ruby, also gets brought up in "Changing Channels." Like, Sam is not catching a break regarding this.

G: Yeah. Also, I mean, it's important to remember that these people have not seen Season 4. [C: Right.] They don't know what happens in Season 4.

C: That's true! So Sam's probably especially upset that, like, this guy seems to be able to tell before the actual reveal, and way before Sam suspected anything. Yeah, that is true. [G: Yeah.] Sad. And Becky, like, stalks over to the guy and goes, [G laughs] like, "Hey. If you don't like the books, don't read 'em, Fritz!" [G: No, literally.] I don't know if "Fritz" is a reference to something or if, like, they're friends [G laughs] and she invited him over, and now she's like, "Shut the fuck up!"

G: [laughs] She's like, "You're embarrassing me, Fritz!" [both laugh]

C: Yeah, maybe that's her Hook man costume because she's like, "You have to dress up! You have to be good!" and he's just not helping out.

G: I fully understand her sentiment. There was a time in my life where, especially when there was, like, a lot of influx of, like, "Haha, that's so funny during the- like, after, you know."

C: November 5? [G: Yeah.] And that was meee!

G: Yeah. I had a very strong reaction of "If you're just going to sit here and say this show's so stupid and blah blah blah, like, just leave! [C laughing] Just block the tag!" I truly was- you know what? Yeah. I- [laughs] there were many things in life that were happening during that time. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, in the world.

C: There was a pandemic.

G: There was a pandemic, and it was horrible. And yeah. Do you remember when 100k happened? [C: Yes.] And you and I and a couple of people that we knew were like, chatting over- like, you know, we were, like, talking on Discord while it while we were waiting for it to happen, and we were, like, all staying up in some manner. [C laughs] Like, we were obviously all in different time zones, and for me, it was dead of the afternoon, like, 12, 1. And I was isolating. What's the term? There's a term. Quarantined. [laughs] I was quarantined 'cause I had COVID. So like, I don't know. What a time in our lives. [C: Yeah.] I remember being like, "I'm going to- I'm so miserable right now. I've not talked to anyone real in like, a week." And yeah. And we were just sitting there, and it was such a fun time. It was a break from the monotony of quarantine. [C: Yeah.] So yeah. Supernatural was in the worst time of my life, [laughs] and did it make it even worse? Who knows? But it did help a little bit.

C: Someone next asks, like, "At the end of the last book, Dean goes to Hell. What happens next?" And Chuck goes like, "Actually, I have an announcement about that." And he is continuing to look so scared at Sam and Dean. [G laughs] But he goes, "Thanks to a wealthy Scandinavian investor, we're going to start publishing again."

G: I cheered. I cheered!

C: Do we find out who this wealthy Scandinavian investor is?

G: No, I don't think so.

C: Alright. But yeah, everyone starts standing ovationing him, cheering, clapping, yelling.

G: No, but like, what made me so happy, again, is that the last time they see is Season 3, and they don't even know how Dean's gonna go back and everything. They haven't met Cas yet! [C True.] And now they're going to. Which is why I was like, "Whoo! Yeah!" Like, if this was like, "Oh, we're gonna start publishing Season 5," I'd be like, "Ugh. Who give a shit?" But because it's like, they're going to meet Cas, the most wonderful character ever-

C: Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, I just I forgot that Cas- No, you're right. So homoerotic subtext panel is probably just Wincest, then.

G: Yeah, I suppose. [C: Right, 'cause there's no Destiel.] I mean, if they were just saying "homosexual subtext" [C: Or homoerotic subtext, yeah.]- No, no, no. Like, if they said "homosexual subtext" or whatever, like, "gay subtext," I would assume that it's just individual characters, like, an exploration of their sexuality. [C: Right.] But because he said "homoerotic subtext," I'm like, "I think they're going to do a Wincest thing." [C: Oh. Sad.] I mean, has some ever had chemistry with anyone ever by Season 3? No, because Chuck shows up in Season 4. [C laughs]

C: You like Sam and Sarah, but by "anyone ever" you meant with a man?

G: Yes, with a man. I'm so sorry. Yeah. [C laughs]

C: Patrick also because Patrick shows up in Season 5. [G: This is true.] Cas shows up in Season 4. It's very difficult. Huh!

G: Gabriel. I mean, the Trickster was there. [C: That's true.] And they were gonna fuck it out raw. Or maybe not. I'm not sure. I've not made up my mind. [both laugh]

C: Yeah. I'm sure I'm missing something.

G: The thing is like, we're so shippingpilled recently. [C: That's true.] Like, we're always fucking talking about shipping Sam and Dean with whoever the fuck is on screen. [C: Mm-hm.] And like, I want everyone to know that I'm not kidding. [both laugh] I know I say everything in a comedic tone, and I laugh at everything I say at any given opportunity, but literally, like, Chuck and Sam, I think, would have made for a good pair!

C: Yeah, I agree. Sabriel would probably be interesting, also.

G: I mean you can- anything can be profound as long as you look close enough and Love Hard enough, I guess.

C: Yeah. Just like Jimmy O. Yang.

C: A little bit later, people are getting drinks and Chuck brings Becky a cocktail called a Yellow-Eyed cooler. And he's just doing a thing where he's like, "I'm a nice guy, and I'm like, trying to ask this girl out."

G: Just like with Risa!

C: Yeah, it is exactly the same as with Risa, and while in 5.04 it was Dean who cucked him, this time is Sam who cucks him, and thus he has been- But I guess in the end, he and Becky end up together. So I guess Jared's- What is that post about Jared being a sexual behemoth? You know the one.

G: Yeah. [laughs] I, of course, know the one. Didn't they call Jensen, like- What's that? [laughs]

C: The virgin?

G: There's like, a term that they use that I've completely forgotten.

C: They call them the virgin. They call him many things.

G: They call him a virgin, but they call him an adjective before "virgin." Like-

C: I don't remember. "Jared's not afraid to hug you with his whole body." What else does it say? I'll look up "sexual behemoth Jared Padalecki." I think it'll happen. Let's see.

G: Yeah. [laughs] Okay. "Jared Padalecki is a physical and sexual behemoth." [laughs] It is that one. Oh my god, yeah, this Tumblr is blocked by me.

C: "Mr. Touch-Me-Not"? Is it that one?

G: I don't know. Apparently, I've blocked this Tumblr. [laughing]

C: I mean, they're like, a Wincestie or something. Or- wait, no, they're not a Wincesty, because they hate Dean. They're a Sastieler, actually, I think. Or something.

G: Oh! They're not saying that Jensen Ackles- Oh! "Virginal and untouched Jensen Ackles." [C: There we go!] [both laugh] What the fuck is going on? Again, we're asking the question of whether Grey likes or dislikes the Supernatural fandom, and we will never know the answer.

C: I don't- Actually, I don't think they're a Sastiel. I don't know what their deal is.

G: I have the Wincest blocked tag- no, tag blocked, and like, when I opened their account, it said, like, says, "#wincest do you want to open this post"? So like, hmm.

C: But they also tagged this post "Destiel" specifically so that the people that they hate will see it, [G: I suppose.] so I guess I don't know. But anyway, I guess despite the fact that Jared Padalecki is a physical and sexual behemoth, a beautiful tempest, and not shy, and is not afraid to hug you with his whole body, and not a virgin, and not made of porcelain, and can and will be rough and handsy [G laughs], I guess Chuck does end up with Becky and not with Risa, so, I don't know. Congratulations? But anyway.

G: [laughing] Who are we congratulating?

C: To Chuck, I think. 'Cause, like- Okay. I do think it's annoying with the writers are doing a thing with the writer character where they're like, "He's like, a nice guy, but, like, girls will never notice him 'cause, like, Dean's around and 'cause Sam's around!" But Becky does eventually notice Chuck, even though Sam's around. So I'm congratulating Chuck, I suppose. [laughs]

In the midst of him trying to ask Becky out, she is ignoring him, and then goes, "Oh, hi, Sam!" Sam's just like, "Ugh, okay, hi." But Sam and Dan are having a confrontation with Chuck where they're like, "Stop publishing more books. We don't have time for this shit." And the whole time, Becky is like, just making faces at Sam to get him to come close to her or whatever. And Sam asks, "Why are you publishing more books?" And Chuck goes, "Um, for food and shelter?" which is soo real! He's soo funny is the thing, though.

G: By the way, like, Dean mentions finding the Colt here, which is what instigates the plot development later. I just wanna mention that.

C: Right. Yeah, he's trying to find the Colt. And Dean asks, "Who gave you the rights to our life story?" And Chuck goes, "An archangel, and I didn't want it!" Oh. [G: So true.] He's so fun! He's so interesting. Like, it was an archangel, and he didn't want it! And Sam goes like, "No more books. Our lives are not for public consumption."

G: Are you getting tired of this thing Supernatural is doing, whatever the fuck it is?

C: The like, "You're evil for watching-"

G: "It's not a TV show!"

C: Oh, "It's not a show, we're real people," whatever whatever. Yeah, I just don't really see how it fits into any larger apocalypse themes. Like, I guess it's like, the commodification of the body through, like, the vessel thing, and then, like, the commodification of the life story, or whatever. I guess you could say that those are related, but I don't think it's necessary.

G: I mean, I think perhaps they would do it a bit more interesting later on. Although I also have my doubts regarding that. But maybe I think that because I'm seeing Chuck here right now, and it's making me dislike [laughs] what they do to him later. So yeah.

C: Mayhaps so. And then, yeah, Chuck asks Becky to leave so he can speak to them in private.

G: And he does, and they go to, like, a separate room. And Chuck goes, "Do you guys know what they do for a living?" And Sam goes, "Yeah, Chuck, we know." And Chuck goes, "Then could you tell me?" God, he's so dramatic. I love it! [C laughs] "'Cause I don't, alright?" And he says, like, he's not a good writer, he has no marketable skills. "I'm not some hero who can just hit the road and fight monsters, okay?" Yeah, and he says, "Well, I need to sustain myself, and the Supernatural books is all I've got. What else do you want me to do?" And I did like this. And they were interrupted by a woman screaming, and so Sam and Dean go off and run towards the scream, and Chuck tries to stop them, but, you know, they're intent on doing all this crap. And they get there. Sam is helping up this woman. And she's like, "Oh, I saw a ghost!" And, like, Barnes shows up behind them. Barnes, by the way, is the Dean. How are we gonna refer to them? Dean LARPer.

C: Is Barnes the Dean? [G: Yes.] I don't think I know the names of-

G: Oh, no, no, no, you're right. Barnes is the Sam. [C: I thought Barnes was the Sam, yeah.] And Demian is the Dean. I just assume that they would name the Sam "Demian" because it's close to demon, [both laugh] and that's what Supernatural does.

C: And Dean dies in a barn!

G: No, Dean reads, just like Barnes and Noble. [C laughing] [C: Real.] Maybe what they're saying here is that Dean doesn't read, and that's why we're getting Sam as Barnes. But yeah, Dean is just like, "Oh, fuck off." But the woman just starts talking about, like, "Oh, there's this lady, and she showed up, and it's terrifying," and she goes like, "Okay, gather around, everybody!" And Sam and Dean realize that this is part of the hunt. It's LARPing. They're LARPing. And yeah, Becky hands Sam, like, a piece of paper that's like, the announcement, [both laughing] and it's the funniest thing in the world. It's written as if it's written by John in the journal. [both laughing] And it goes, "Dad's journal -- Dear Sam and Dean. This hotel is haunted. You must hunt down the ghost. Interview witnesses, discover clues, and find the bones. [both laughing] First team to do so wins a fifty dollar gift card to Sizzler. [both] Love, Dad." which is, of course, the most unreal thing-

C: "Love, Dad" is less in character than "First team to do so wins a $50 gift card to Sizzler."

G: I literally love that it's the most unrealistic part of this fucking announcement post. [C laughing] It's so funny! [laughing] Yeah. So yeah! The hunt begins for the price of a $50 gift card to Sizzler.

G: They go around, and there's like, different people being interviewed by different people. And there's like this, honestly, very- A lot of the scenes in this episode are, like, fun and funny, which are two separate things, and a lot of times, they're often both. And I really did quite like the part where, like, they all show their badges, and they're all in a circle, and they're all wearing their FBI. [C: Yeah.] And I find so nice that, like, these people literally did get, like, suits, separate! [C: Uh-huh.] 'Cause earlier, they were wearing their usual Sam and Dean outfit, [C: Right.] and now they're not! And that's really fun. And they're all showing their badges. And the con manager just addresses them altogether. It's like, "Well, yes, agents Lennon and McCartney," which is so fun! And yeah, they're giving out the lore, etc etc. And Dean is like, "Oh, this is so corny."

C: Are you gonna say the lore? It's like, relevant to the case.

G: Oh, yeah! Well, the lore is that this, indeed, is a haunted building, and it was an orphanage, and, like, the orphanage was ran by Leticia Gore. Wonderful name! This very night, so, like, they really did the anniversaries right, a hundred years ago, she allegedly- oh, well, I mean, let's spoil it, like, she was known to have killed four kids and then killed herself. But, you know, later on we learn that there's more complexity to this matter. And the lore is that these kids and her are trapped in this establishment. And as this is happening, there's two people who are dressed up as Sam and Dean. It's Barnes and Demian. And like, the Dean, so Demian, is going like, "[low] Dad's-" and he is putting on the lowest voice possible, which is so fun for me. He's going, "[low] Dad said-"

C: Also, these are books! [G laughs] They have no reason to think that Sam and Dean talk this way.

G: No, maybe they do. Maybe, like, [C: The description?] everybody's making a comment about how fucking low Dean's voice is, and he's truly out mascing himself every single day.

C: Maybe. Maybe that's what Chuck's writing about.

G: Yeah. And yeah, Demian is like, "Dad said I may have to kill you." And they're literally just having this conversation in the hallway, which is so funny. [C laughs] And the Sam is like, "Kill me? What the hell does that mean?" Demian just goes, "I don't know." And they just keep on walking [C laughs], which is obviously what they also do in Supernatural. It's exactly what they do in Supernatural. [C: Yeah, it is.] Sam and Dean are just like, "What the fuck is going on?" and they go for a drink.

C: Yeah, they say, "I need a drink" in unison, and earlier, like, they say, like, "See what?" or whatever in unison when they're talking to Chuck about the con, and Becky goes, "I love it when they talk at the same time!" And you know what? Sometimes, I find it fun when they talk at the same time too, Becky.

C: So we're following some of the guests trying to do the case. There's someone who has, like, a cardboard EMF thing that they're holding out, but like, it's always on high, due to it's cardboard. [laughs] It's fun. [G: It's fun, yeah.] There's a woman who jumps out at him, but like, she's like, clearly an actress who's not very good at it. Where she just goes, "[flatly] I'm mean, old Leticia Gore. They buried me in the basement. Ooh." [laughs] And then-

G: Literally the moment this, and like, later on, when she was like, trying to round up those kids, all I can think of was like, I would do such a banger job in this role. [C laughs] Like, if I was this woman, we would- Sam and Dean, they wouldn't even have to fucking burn the bones. I would have instructed those children to eviscerate themselves, [C laughing] and they would have done it.

C: The guy shoots like, a Nerf gun at her, and she's like, "Ow. You got me." And he's like, "You're supposed to vanish?"

G: [laughing] "You're supposed to disappear!" And she's like, "I don't know how to do that!" which is so real of her.

C: Yeah. And he's walking around later, and then there's like, a boy that appears, and this time, we know that it's a ghost 'cause like, like, he materializes out of nowhere. And the kid goes, "Help us! Miss Gore won't let us have any fun." And then the ghost disappears, and Alex starts screaming and shit, and then he goes, "That was aw-!" and he's about to say awesome. He's attacked by some unseen presence. He's bleeding and shit. And then there's a woman's voice that goes, "Naughty, naughty, naughty."

G: And I literally did not decipher that this was "Naughty, naughty, naughty." I was also not watching with subtitles. And I was like, "Is she saying 'nonny nonny nonny,' just like in Shakespeare?" [C laughing]

C: And she was. She is sort of running in his direction, and then, like, the ghosts disappear.

G: So we go to like, the hotel bar. Dean- Well, Sam and Dean are seated, and Dean is seated beside the actress for Leticia Gore. And she, like, is on her phone, texting away. And Dean turns to her and asks how she's doing, and the lady-

C: I mean, one could characterize "How you doing?" with like, a flirtatious air is asking her how she's doing, but I don't know. I don't think he wants to know that bad.

G: Okay, fine. He's saying, "How you doing?" just like in Phineas and Ferb. [C laughing] I don't know. I thought the "Well, you sure look lovely tonight" was like, the start of the flirtation. That's how I characterize it in my head. [C: Hmm.] But yeah, he is flirting with this woman. And he's saying, like, "Well, you look lovely for a dead chick." [C laughs] And the lady is like, "Okay, well, I've heard that line 17 times tonight, and all from dudes wearing MacGyver jackets." [C: Soo real.] Hey, my jacket is so nice and original. [C laughs]

C: Well, you wouldn't say, "You look lovely tonight, especially for a dead chick," so your jacket is different.

G: Exactly. She looks up from her phone and she sees Dean, and she smiles a little bit, which is-

C: I hate it! [G: I hate it.] I hate it so much. Like, it was a funny joke beforehand!

G: I think every single guy who's wearing a leather jacket should be a loser, [both laugh] including myself.

C: So true. It was a funny joke. It was just like a "Dean, your lines aren't original, and everyone here has got you down to, like, a T" or whatever. That's a funny joke. But as soon as she turns around and she's like, "Oh, actually, though, you're different, and I wanna fuck you," then it's like, what are we doing here? Like, what is this for? Like, we can't even make fun of Dean for, like, one second? It has to be a "Sorry for misjudging you. You're actually better than all those stupid fans, and you're really hot, and I want you."? It's annoying. It's annoying. I'm irritated.

G: What it is is like, [laughs] she clocked all those people as gay as hell. She's like, "Well, this guy, this could work out," and that's why she's entertaining him. [C: Mm.] I'm so sorry. Is it actually homophobic to call the Supernatural fans gay as hell? [laughs] What is the levels of homophobia here?

C: Huh. Well, I don't know. Well, you're just saying "gay as hell" to mean gay and "as hell" as just an extra- Yeah, what purpose does the "as hell" serve?

G: Just for fun. No, I mean, that's not my question. It's not about the semantics of the words used. It's about [laughs] is it homophobic to call people gay? [laughing]

C: [laughs] What? But you're saying that they're actually same sex-attracted. You're not using it to- [laughing]

G: [laughing] Now that I'm saying it, I'm like, "Maybe it is homophobic that I'm asking if it's homophobic." [C laughs]

C: Like, the books, are clearly- The books clearly use sex to sell themselves, so one could assume that if men are at this convention, they're attracted to the Sam and Dean characters in the book.

G: As this conversation is just about to start, the guy from earlier comes rushing down, and he's upset because, you know, there's a real fucking ghost, like, you know, it beat him up and then disappeared. And Sam's like, "You saw something?" And the guy turns to him and goes, "This isn't part of the game, jerk." And yeah, he leaves. And Sam and Dean are like, "Huh. Maybe there is something to all this." And so they go and interview the manager of the hotel who doesn't want to talk to them. But they insist, and by "they" I mean "Dean," and by "insist," I mean, "give the manager money." [C laughs] : So the manager tells them that this is actually true. Like, the lore, is actually true, and it truly was called the Gore Orphanage, which is [C laughs] an outstanding name, if we're being so real right now.

C: Yeah, very children's hospital red paint. Yeah. [G: Literally.] God, it is so Chuck to like- I mean, there's gotta be someone- Like, there's gotta be discourse about the Supernatural books somewhere, right? And like, as soon as people heard about this con, they're like, "It is so typical of the man who writes fictional books about how hot real serial killers Sam and Dean Winchester are, it is so like him to do this con regarding a real, actual murder that happened in this building a hundred years ago."

G: Well, first of all, they don't know that it's Winchester, but I suppose you can make the connection that is called Sam and Dean.

C: It's pretty easy. Yeah, Sam and Dean, and anyone who is looking [G: I mean, how does it work?] at the FBI Most Wanted, or like, has heard- was in the city for one of the cases.

G: There is like- So like, they know, in the real world, that what happened in "Skin" actually did happen [C: Yes.], and people did find those bodies, and the SWAT team was there, so like, what's the situation? Did Chuck also write that in the book? And people are like, "Oh, he's making fanfic about fucking these characters." [C: I mean, yes.] Not fucking these characters, but these fucking characters.

C: I think so. I think he writes everything down as it happens. [G: Damn.] It's just that not that many people have noticed for some reason.

G: Yeah, I suppose that can be the case. Dean asks like, "Oh, where did this all happen?" but the manager doesn't want to tell them. Dean slides over and goes, "You should talk to my buddy Ulysses." [both laugh] So stupid. I'm so sorry, everyone. He did not actually say that because Dean is cooler than me. So yeah, it's in the attic. So Sam and Dean go there, I suppose. But this conversation was heard over by Demian and Barnes, so they have been hearing this, too.

C: Yeah. So they're in the attic with the EMF, which is going off a lot. They're just- Dean's grumbling about the situation, and he's like, "These people deserve to die!" [laughs] And- well, Sam says that "This won't end well," and Dean says, "Serves them right." And, like, someone does die, soon, so. [G: Yeah!] Demian and Barnes are also around the attic area. And Demian's like, in character the whole time, doing the voice. Barnes isn't. And Demian just keeps going like, "Hey, just stay in character, right? Because if it's just me, I look stupid." One of the ghost boys appears and goes, "Help us." Barnes goes like, "Oh my god! That makeup is amazing!" but, you know, he was out of character. Boo! So, once again, the ghost line is, "Miss Gore won't let us have any fun." Demian asked where the body is buried, and the boy points at like, a painting on the wall. And then when they move the painting away, there's bloody handprints on the wall and on the back of it, and-

G: It's so fucking in your face.

C: Yeah, inside of it, there is a map. And none of this was part of the game, [G: Yeah.] which means that you're telling me that they kept this painting with bloody handprints on it for a hundred years, with the blood of murdered people on the back of it for a hundred years? [laughing] Why was there a map in there? What's that for?

G: And I mean, it's not, like they're advertising this hotel as like, a haunted hotel.

C: Like, did they like the painting that much? Like, what is this?

G: And also, just change the backing. [C: Yeah.] Like, you could just change the frame. [C laughs] I don't know.

C: You could paint over the bloody handprint on the wall behind it. [G laughs] I don't understand. Like, people clean this place. There's someone who moves aside that painting every week and, like, dusts the bloody handprints?

G: They're like, "This is just like in Supernatural."

C: Exactly. They're all very excited about this. And then, in the attic, another boy who is a ghost shows up and goes, "My mommy loves me." And Sam turns around and goes, like, "I'm sure she does." And then he goes, "My mommy loves me this much!" and then he reveals that, like,part of his, like, scalp has been removed, and you can see his brain through everything, [G: Yeah.] and then he disappears.

G: Dean is, like, very upset by this. [C: Is he?] Like, later on, he's like, "That's it. We need to kill this woman." I'm sure he uses worse words than that. [C: Yeah.] But yeah. And I was like- my immediate thought was like, "Aw, he cares about Sam's scalp! Like, he understands that Sam's hair is so important to him, and that's why he's so upset!" And then, later on, they did try to scalp Sam, and like, I was right. Not a single joke I ever make doesn't come through in some way or another. [C: Indeed.]

G: We have the scene where Becky tried to get Sam's attention, and Chuck is also there, watching all of this. And, like, Sam relays to Dean that out of the four kids that Leticia Gore killed, one of them was her son. And yeah, the kid was scalped, etc. And Dean goes, "That's it. I'm gonna deep-fry this bitch extra crispy." [C laughs] As I've said, worse words than what I have shared. They're trying to see where she's buried. Over the other table, they hear Barnes and Demian talking about where the cemetery is about the map they saw, and Sam goes over, looks at the map, and just goes, "It's real. Like, this is a century old." and etc, etc. And Dean asks where they got the map, and they're like, "Dude, it's a fucking game. Leave us alone." But Dean, eventually, is like- [laughing]

C: What?

G: [laughing] No, because I find this so funny. Like, Dean is like, trying to get the fucking map from them, and Dean goes like, "Yeah, right. Give me the map, chuckles." And Demian goes, "You're the chuckles, chuckles." And then he moves his jacket aside to show his fake gun. And then Dean- [laughing

C: Well, and then Barnes goes-

G: Yeah, he tells Demian to cool it. And then Dean, like, takes out his gun, right? [C: Mm-hm!] He like, also moves his jacket, which is- This guy wants to kill everyone so bad. [C: Yeah.] He really is living it up with the gun boy dream. And Sam also stops Dean, just like how Barnes stopped Demian. And yeah. Sam is like, "Look, we all want to find the bones, and if we work together faster, we can do it!" And Demian and Barnes are like, "Well, we're gonna get the Sizzler gift card, number one [C laughs], and number two, we get to be Sam and Dean." So [laughing] Sam and Dean have to be somebody else. [both laughing] And then they go out. It's revealed to us [C: It's so fun!] that they are Rufus and Bobby. [C laughs]

C: Demian and Barnes want to share the Sizzler equivalent of a blooming onion in order to transform their outing into a romantic tryst, and good for them. [G: Exactly.] But yeah. Are you continuing, or-

G: What are the ethics of playing Rufus as a white man? [C: Yeah.] Let's discuss. [C laughs]

C: They don't really do any playing of Rufus, though. Like, it lasts for like, one line.

G: Yeah, exactly. I mean, they don't engage in it.

C: Because Dean was like, "I won't whitewash my friend Rufus!" [G: Exactly!] And that's why he went- Yeah.

G: I mean, there are people who play anime characters who are white. [C: Right.] So I suppose it's fine? [laughs] I don't know. I have no idea.

C: I'm not really attuned to the cosplay world, [G: This is true.] so I'm sure that there are discussions happening in there that I have not seen.

G: Yeah. I'm sure they have figured it out, or they have figured it out the ways that they have not figured it out. [C: Yeah.]

Barnes and Demian proceed with their LARPing of the "Asylum" conversation.

C: Yeah, are they just playing out all of Sam and Dean's fights? Like, that's fun of them.

G: I mean, I don't think the "Dad said I would have to kill you" is a fight.

C: Fair. Just moments of tension.

G: Yeah. The iconic dialogues And like, the Sam is going like, "[low] Why are we even here, Dean?" And like, I want everyone to know that I'm doing a way better job at the fucking reenacting these lines than they are. And yeah, "You're just following Dad's footsteps, like a good little soldier? Are you that desperate for his approval?" And yeah, like, when Demian goes like, "This isn't you talking, Sam." Dean like, starts getting, like, super upset. And yeah, the the conversation keeps on going and going.

C: Yeah. And Barnes is not a real fan, because he goes, "I got a mind of my own. I'm not pathetic." when the line is "I'm not pathetic like youuu"! [G: Yeah.] But yeah.

G: Literally. Dean finally snaps, and he starts saying, like, "I'm not Bobby, okay?" [laughs] So they gave Rufus to Sam. You know what? I understand their vision, I suppose.

C: Huh. In that Dean is like, rougher?

G: I think Dean does need to grow into a Bobby figure, is what should happen.

C: He's dead, so I don't really know what- [laughs] I don't have any future plans for him.

G: Bobby? And Dean, yeah. They're both dead. RIP. [C: RIP.] And Dean is like, "You're not Sam. You're not Dean. What's wrong with you? Why in the hell would you choose to be these guys?" And Barnes is like, "Well, we're fans." Barnes, you're a fake fan. Get the fuck over yourself. "Just like you!" And Dean is like, "I'm not a fan! Okay?"

C: "I think that the Dean and Sam story sucks!"

G: This is true, because this story that is good is the Sam and Dean story.

C: The Sam and Dean story, exactly.

G: Yeah, "It's not fun, it's not entertaining!" And yeah, he's so bitter, he's so upset. [both] "Their pain is not for your amusement!"

C: "Do you think they enjoy being treated, like, like circus freaks?"

G: Rich from a guy who treated circus freaks [C: Like circus freaks.] the way Dean has treated circus freaks in the past. But okay. [C: Yeah.] And Demian is like, "Well, I mean, they're fictional, so they DGAF." [C laughs]

C: He's so real. He's so real.

G: And Dean was like, "Oh, they care. Believe me, they care a lot!" [C laughs] And then he storms off. And Sam just stands there and goes, "He- Um, he really takes this story seriously," and, you know what? I commend Sam, for the first time in the entirety of Supernatural, not being the killjoy of this story. Like, good for him! [C laughs]

C: Yeah. Yeah. Good for him. Sam's a lot less angry about this than Dean. Is that true?

G: Yes. I think Dean has a lot more anger about being part of a story and being part of the cycle. He has more feelings about it. Even in Season 15, he has more feelings about it.

C: So like, why is it that Sam is not that upset? [G: I don't know.] Like, he's normal? Like, he understands that it's a book and the fans don't know?

G: You know what? I'm gonna revise my statement. It's not that he has more feelings about it. He's just more upset about it. I think Sam has feelings about it, also, but you're right, he's just not as upset with it, which I think is fascinating. You're right. I've never thought about it. Like, why is he?

C: I think Sam's the one who's had a lot more fate shit happening to him, like, starting Season 2.

G: I think maybe Sam is just Catholic. [C: Right.] So it's fine. He's like, "It's fine that they're writing my story." [laughs] He understands his role as Jesus!

C: Like, he's a saint? Or no, apparently- [G: Literally.] Yeah, no. But I guess yeah, he's like, "There are plenty of people whose stories get written, and everyone's like, doing stuff about it every year. I'm just like all the saints for real!"

G: Literally. And Dean is not a Catholic. He doesn't believe in saints. So there we go!

C: There we go, indeed.

G: We've cracked it. [C laughs]

C: We have. We've cracked it. Yeah, I don't know. What is Dean even mad about? Like- [laughs]

G: From what we see, it's the like, making it seem like their life- Being like, "Oh, your life is so cool!" when he thinks it's so terrible. [C: Uh-huh.] Which is so fascinating again, because it's Sam who, we are told, thinks their life sucks, and Dean is the one who mythologizes it, so. [C: I really don't know.] Maybe Dean is like, "I can mythologize my life. But you can't!" [C: Yeah.] which I get. I get the vision.

C: Yeah. And I guess both of them are upset about the specific scenes that are being roleplayed.

G: Yeah, for him, that's deep and meaningful and raw and blahblahblah. [C: Right.] To Sam, it's just another dialogue line, I suppose.

C: Yeah, yeah, though, I mean- Both of the- Okay, I guess the earlier thing would have been more upsetting to Sam. The like, "Dad said I might have to kill you" thing. But like, I don't know. Sam's a guilty guy. He's probably over that 'cause he feels like he deserves it or whatever. I don't know. Maybe Dean's still mad that Sam called him pathetic, like, four years ago.

G: Yeah, exactly. Maybe he's mad about the inaccuracy of the dialogue.

C: Yeah, he was like, "Sam says, 'I'm not pathetic like youuu.'"! Maybe that is it.

G: "That's worse! Like, Sam did me dirtier than you're painting this!" [C laughing] [C: Exactly.]

C: In the cemetery, they find the graves of the four boys and Leticia Gore. And Demian and Barnes are like, over in the grass looking for like, fake bones, and Dean's like, "They're like, in the ground, though?" And he and Sam pull out shovels, and Barnes-

G: There was a moment where the two of them are like, "Um, I'm not sure-" Like, they're like, beginning to question who the fuck these people are.

C: Right, yeah. They're like, "This is like, a game that we're playing. What is happening?" But Dean is just like, "No, trust us." And everyone helps out with flashlights until he gets to the coffin of Leticia Gore and opens it, and it is a real skeleton.And at this point, Barnes and Demian are finally like, "What the fuck? [G laughs] You guys are crazy. You just dug up, like, a real grave of a real person. Like, what is happening? Like, hunters aren't real, and this isn't real, and you guys have lost your grip on reality." But while they're leaving, the ghost of Leticia Gore shows up, and she goes, "Naughty, naughty, naughty!" And she starts attacking them, and Demian and Barnes are freaking out, and she seems to be about to kill them, but Dean is able to salt and burn the bones in time. And Dean goes, "Real enough for you?" to Demian and Barnes, and they just look really, really scared and such. Dean is like, [G: They're scawed.] Dean is not being fair to these guys at all. But whatever.

G: Yeah. Dean is being so mean!

C: He is. He's being so mean. I think just, like, his gaydar was pinging, and he was like, "I just really hate these two people in particular for some reason, but I don't know why." And then finally, in the end, it's like, "Oh, it's 'cause I'm homophobic." [G laughs] But yeah.

G: I- Yeah, "Howdy, partner." [laughs]

C: He really is homophobic, though. Like [laughing], canonically, he's homophobic. [G laughing]

G: Let's discuss it later. [C: Okay.] Truly a scene. A set of lines, even. [C: Uh-huh.]

G: And they're back, and they're back in the hotel bar, and Barnes and Demian, drinking up. And yeah, Dean, well, he answers their bill. Is that-? He pays for [C: He covers their bill?]= Yeah, he covers it, which is my defense in your homophobic status. [both laugh] Not status. Statement.

C: Uh-huh. He's not homophobic because he paid for their drinks.

G: Exactly. [C: Sure.] And Demian asked like, "How did you know to do all that?" And they were like, "It's because we read the books."

C: Sam's the one who says that, 'cause Sam seems to be the maintainer of the fantasy for this episode.

G: Yeah, this is true, and Dean goes to Chuck, and he says, "Hey, good luck with the Supernatural books, and screw you very much."

C: They should've burn the kids' bones. Like, they know that the kids are ghosts also.

G: They know that they were there, yeah! They're just never gonna give these children peace, I guess.

C: This is on them. Like, they could have just done it all in one go, and it would've been fine.

G: Yeah. And yeah, the manager is sitting beside Chuck and goes, "Fan of yours?" And Chuck considers this for a while and goes, "I'd say no," which is so funny. They literally are not. As Sam and Dean try to get out of the hotel, they realized that the main doors are locked. The windows, locked. Every exit is locked, as if something is keeping them in. Horrible! [C: Horrible.] And the lady from earlier, [C: The actress?] the actress, she screams, and Sam and Dean go to her, and she's like, "Don't go in there!" And in the corner, the boy is still there, and he's saying, "Why did you send my mommy away?" And Dean goes, "Maybe because of the high and light she gave you, huh? How about some thanks?" [C laughs] Which is, like, dude. [C: Bruh.] I get that he's really upset this episode, but come on, Dean. He goes, "I'm just saying, a little gratitude would be nice, once in a while." And the boy says, "My mommy didn't do this to me." And so Sam asks who did, but the ghost disappears. [C: Gasp.] And we go to a hallway where the German Hook Man [C laughs] is walking, and three of the other ghost boys show up, and he goes, "Ja, how original. Supernatural bringing us more creepy children." And yeah, these children, creepy. And they're like, "Miss Gore wouldn't let us have any fun. But now that she's gone, we can have all kinds of fun." And then they bring out their huge knives. [C laughs] And like, by the way, this entire time, the Hook Man's like, "Oh, you don't look like real ghosts, blahblahblah." Which like, you know what? I think anybody who goes to an event where there's supposed to be ghosts or horror, like, a haunted house or something, and they, like, talk to the actors? You're terrible. You're a terrible person [C laughs] is what I think. Like, maybe this guy deserved to die. [both laugh]

C: I mean Eric Kripke and Nancy Weiner certainly thought so.

G: They were like, "Yeah." You should commit to every bit, is my belief. And this guy wasn't.

C: I do think it's fascinating that they have a character who's like, [G, laughing: Being German.] "There are plot holes in Supernatural or whatever," and like, he's the only one that they kill in this episode, right? [laughs]

G: Yeah. Also, I think it is known that Supernatural is big in Germany. Is it known?

C: Right, 'cause the German dub where Dean says the F-slut.

G: Does he really? When is this?

C: I've heard of this. I don't know what scene it is. [typing]

G: Is it the one- Why? Why would he say it? When would he say it, even?

C: I don't know. Maybe it was in "Fairy Tales." I can see it.

G: You know how we mentioned last time that Denmark is our second-most listeners, first being the United States? Our third is Germany. [C: Nice.] I'm saying, like, there are many German watchers of Supernatural.

C: It's in "Tall Tales." It's when Dean's like, talking about Sam, like, comforting the witness, and he's like- The one where like, he hugs the guy, and Dean's retelling is, like, "You brave, beautiful soldier, you." And then Dean says, "You always say fag shit like that." [both laughing] But in the original, it was, "You're always saying pansy stuff like that," so like, [G: I mean, it's cool to know-] I think it's a fairly accurate translation, I think. [laughing] Is Supernatural a horrible show? Yes.

G: It is a big possibility. [C laughs]

The guy dies. RIP. I guess there's a scream because Sam and Dean ought to find him. Chuck is, like, hosting another Q&A, I guess, for one of the panels. What do you think panel this is for? I am going to-

C: Well, he says, "Thank you for your incredibly probing and rigorous questions," so I think it's the homoerotic subtext one. And also, in the schedule, the Homoerotic subtext one was after "Frightened little boy." [G: This is true.] Oh, wait! But that was actually at 4, and the hunt begins at 7 [G: at 7.], so it seems like this would be a different panel. Unless it went on for so long, and only some people went to join the hunt.

G: Is the hunt still going? Maybe this is the ender for the hunt. This is like, the end.

C: But no one found the fake bones. [G: Did they?] No winner has been announced.

G: How do you know?

C: I mean, I just feel like Demian and Barnes would have brought it up at some point. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. They just saw a real ghost for the first time. They burned the bones of a real ghost. [C: Exactly.] And they're like, "Damn. We really missed that fucking Sizzler opportunity." [C laughs] Sam, as Chuck is closing in on this panel about homoerotic subtext in Supernatural, Sam comes in and grabs him by the shoulder and leans into his ear and whispers. And, like, Chuck goes, "What? Holy crap!" And then Sam, like, turns off the mic so that the audience won't hear him. And yeah, he goes, "You gotta keep everyone safe in here, Chuck. This is life or death." And yeah, for as long as it takes. Yeah. And Chuck's like, "How the hell am I supposed to do that?" And Sam goes, "I don't know, man. Just do it." And this is the scene where I was like, "Goddamn. Sam is so tall. Sam is so ungodly tall." And he truly is. Yeah, Chuck is like, "Wow, so I guess we have more time! And I can tell you more things!"

C: Dean is getting all the hotel staff into the auditorium to watch Chuck's panel as well. Chuck is starting to talk about how there's gonna be angels in the next books. "They're not nearly as lame as you think" is what he says about angels. So Sam and Dean figure out that the situation is that the 3 boys were LARPing as cowboys and Indians. Unfortunate. And they probably actually scalped Letitia's son, and he died, and then she sees that this happened and then freaks out and kills them all and then herself. Sorry to this woman. That was probably a really bad, like, three minutes of your life and now you're like, stuck being a ghost, making sure they don't kill other people all the time. Now that Leticia's gone, there's nobody keeping those guys under control anymore, so they have to burn the kids' bones, but they're trapped in here. And Dean is like, "My idea is that since these ghost boys were scared of ghost Leticia Gore, we can just get the actress for her [G: Iconic.] to go yell at her." And they have terrible eyesight, so they won't be able to tell it's a completely different woman? [laughs] I don't know how this goes, but whatever.

G: It kind of works for a bit.

C: It does, but, like, I don't understand how. But yeah, we cut to a bit later. We skip whenever Sam and Dean tell the actress that ghosts are real, but like, [laughs] supposedly, they had to convince her of this. I mean, I guess she saw the scalped little boy, but I'd personally just read that as like, "Oh, like, I wasn't told about all the other actors on set." Like, I don't think I'd be down to believe in ghosts that fast, but-

G: Oh, I'm down to believe in ghosts very fast.

C: [laughs] Yeah, that is valid. Dean goes, "You're an actress. We just want you to act." And she goes, "I work at Hooters in Toledo." Good for her. I hope this joint is paying better. So they're convincing her, and then Demian and Barnes come over and say that they want to help. Oh, also, Dean tells Sam that he should finish convincing her by giving her "the puppy dog thing." [both laugh] Incredibly funny. [G: So true.] But yeah, Demian and Barnes go like, "We know this is real, and we're terrified, but if all these people are in trouble, we've got to do something." And Dean goes, "Why?" And Demian goes, "Because that's what Sam and Dean would do." which I think was nice. I mean, it's like, they're doing [G: I did also.] a pretty heavy-handed kind of thing where like, through Demian and Barnes, Dean is learning to appreciate his own life again or whatever, or see that he's a #hero or whatevs, but I think that it works for the episode that it is.

G: This works definitely way better than what they do at the end, is what I think.

C: Yeah. Like, I don't know if I would want to wake up and save the world every day with a brother who would die for me. That sounds stressful! [laughs] So.

G: Yeah. And also, like, the way they're like, "Being a normal worker of a normal job is so horrible! You should want to kill yourself with that life!" Like, what's happening?

C: I mean, that's what "It's a Terrible Life" was about, too, wasn't it?

G: Yeah, like, Supernatural is obsessed with this idea that, like, normal life is so terrible, which is, like, fascinating because they're trying to protect!

C: But they're obsessed the idea that, yeah, Sam and Dean are trying to achieve normal life. I don't know. I guess they alternate between, like, "Sam and Dean's life sucks" and, like, "Sam and Dean's life is wish fulfillment, and all you people wish that you could quit your jobs and then get shot to death immediately," so [both laugh] I don't know. [G: Exactly.]

There's a brief thing of Chuck trying to hold down the fort where he goes, "There's no such thing as a Croatoan virus for... down there. You should really see a doctor." [G laughs] Not that funny, but, you know, it's whatever. Chuck is good at delivering things, at least.

In the library, they're trying to execute this plan where the actress goes in and calls for the boys to come out. Also, Dean says, "I'm right here, sweetheart" [G: "Sweetheart."] when she says she's scared. Like, fuck off.

G: Shut the fuck up, Dean.

C: Like, you're asking this woman to like, risk her life. Like, cool it. And so the library door is like, blocked and shit, so they're all trying to get in. But, you know, the actress's calling everyone naughty, and saying that they need to unlock all the doors of the house. And Sam manages to get Barnes and Demian out, 'cause they're in charge of going to burn the bones, which, honestly, I feel like-

G: I did not realize this. Like, I thought Sam was with them. And when Sam later on goes in [C: Yeah, exactly!] and slashes that ghost-

C: I was like, "He walks really fast!"

G: - I was like, "What? Why are you here? Why's he here?" [C laughs]

C: Yeah. Also, I feel like it should have been like, one experienced hunter, one cosplayer on each team. [G: Yeah.] Like, Demian and Barnes- like, Sam and Dean almost die because Demian and Barnes can't operate a Zippo.

G: Yeah. I mean, like, we know, for a fact that ghosts also attack [overlapping] when you're about to burn their bones, yeah. So I don't know.

C: Not smart. It seems to be working, but then her ringtone starts going off, and even though all the boys were like, "This completely different woman with a completely different face and voice and outfit is Leticia Gore," the advent of a cell phone is somehow enough for them to go, "I guess that this is fake." The boys start trying to attack.

G: It's like, cutting between Sam and Dean- Well, Dean, getting his ass beat, and then Sam shows up, like, also with the iron bar. Demian and Barnes are, like, digging up graves, and Barnes is like, "Oh my god!" Like, he's panting really hard, and he's like, "Digging graves seems so easy, but, like, it's actually so hard, and I think I'm gonna throw up." And like, Demian just looks at him really seriously and goes, "No, you're not." [C laughs] which is, I did like. I thought it was so nice. [C: Yeah.] And yeah, Chuck is still there. He's talking about his fucking life.

C: He's actually talking about his fucking life, yeah.

G: Yeah, no, his fucking life, which is that he lost his virginity when he was 16, and it was also when he fell in love the first time, and that, and then he goes, "But then she went around telling everybody it didn't count, so..." and he just chuckles a little bit.

C: What does that mean? [G: What?] Like, I'm just confused. I feel like we're supposed to understand what that means. Why is she saying that it doesn't count? 'Cause it was, like, a handjob? Like, what?

G: Because it's not good.

C: Like, the sex was so bad that she thought it didn't count?

G: "She was telling everyone it didn't count." Yeah. [C: Okay.] It's like, embarrassing to be having sex with Chuck, I suppose, is what I'm saying.

C: Oh, yeah, okay, yeah, that makes sense. He does have loser in high school vibes.

G: Yeah. I'd fuck him. Chuck, don't worry about it. [C laughing] I can be your- What the fuck am I? Like, sexuality-wise questioning phase.

C: Well, he- God is already bi. I'm assuming that he already knows.

G: I mean, we're still going back and forth between what is Chuck and God, I suppose. Is he God here?

C: I think, okay, but I think when he's talking about how he's been in relationships with both men and women to Metatron, I'm assuming that was while he was Chuck. [G: Okay.] 'Cause, like, while he was God, I don't think he was fucking because he was, like, up in Heaven, not having a body.

G: Well, happy bisexuality, I guess. I'll just go leave the room. Yeah. [C laughs]

C: I mean you can be- You could sleep with Chuck as not an experimental thing. [G laughs]

G: This is true, but I don't wanna! [C laughing]

C: Alright!

G: The like, hotel manager starts to move out, but Chuck goes, "Don't open that door!" But the manager is like, "Who give a shit, man?" He opens the door, it breaks the salt line that Sam and Dean put there earlier, and then suddenly, like, one of the little boys are there, and he's holding a giant knife. And there's this like, kind of slow-motion scene, where Chuck gets, like, a giant iron bar, or whatever that is, and swipes over the kid, and the kid, like, disappears. And then he closes the door and he goes- and it's like, the first time in the public that he is showing authority. And he goes, "I said nobody leaves, dammit! Now somebody salt this door." And Becky is seeing all this, and she's like, "[gasps] Wow!"

C: "Wow! He's just like Sam for real!" I don't like it.

G: This is what I'm saying that, like, Eric Kripke was like- You don't like it?

C: Not that much. But what what were you gonna say?

G: I mean, I liked the scene, but I cannot help but think that Eric Kripke is going like, "I'm so cool." [C laughs]

C: I mean, yeah, I guess that is why I don't like it. Chuck is a writer stand-in.

G: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if we remove Eric Kripke from every equation, I like this scene.

C: Yeah. Just any, like, "This girl won't notice me!" like, plot is just fundamentally uninteresting to me, I think, so [G: Yeah.] anything that is part of that plot, it makes me annoyed, and it makes me extra annoyed if, you know, Eric Kripke is in the equation, and he's like, "I wish that my fans would want to fuck me." Like, don't.

G: No, I mean, the Becky thing, obviously annoying. I'm just talking independently about Chuck. [C: Oh, okay.] I think Chuck coming in here, doing that iron bar thing, and being like, "Nobody leave, dammit!" and showing authority and blahblahblah, I think that's fun. Like, at at any given context, I would find the Becky stuff annoying. But Chuck, independently, I'm like, "Ah! He's so cool!" and then I remember that like, "Oh, this is Eric Kripke being like, 'And I'm so cool, too!'" and I get pissed about it. [C: Yeah.]

Sam and Dean, getting beat. Demian, trying to fucking light the Zippo. It's not working too well. And he goes, "How come Dean can always light this stupid thing on the first try?" which is so true.

C: They had to dig up four graves. Sam should have gone with them. That's a lot of work.

G: Sam should have. Sam and Dean are like, there. Sam's about to get scalped.

C: Yeah. His beautiful hair!

G: Yeah! Who cares about his brain and his skull? [both laugh] His beautiful hair!

C: This is actually why Sam starts to go bald in later seasons. He never recovered from this.

G: Exactly. It's not about any, you know, male pattern baldness. No. Stress? No.

C: I mean, he's trans. [G: What?] He's trans. I guess if he was on T long enough, though, he would also be experiencing male pattern baldness.

G: Yeah, this is true. Does John experience male pattern baldness?

C: He dies too early, but also- Wait, actually, yeah, what age is- Okay, in "Lebanon," was he looking kind of bald?

G: Jeffrey Dean Morgan? [C: Yeah.] His hair was shaved, so maybe.

C: Oh. Yeah, maybe.

G: Yeah, the kids, they're gone. The ghosts, they're gone. And Dean makes a comment about like, "You know, maybe that guy was right. Maybe we should put these things on a bungee" about the iron board that flew out of his hand.

C: Yeah. And that guy will never know that he was right due to he died.

G: He's dead. Yeah.

C: Yeah, so it's later, and police are here, and all of that. And Dean goes to talk to Demian and Barnes, and he says, like, "You know, like, thanks for saving our asses back there." And they introduce themselves with their proper names, and they ask Dean his name, and he goes, "Dean. The real Dean." Yeah, I think as soon as Sam's not here, Dean's just on his, like, "Sam and Dean are real people, and I am them!" like, bullshit, but it doesn't work. Demian's like, "So true, bestie. So am I." As he's walking away, Demian goes, "You're wrong, you know. About Supernatural. No offense, but I'm not sure you get what the story is about."

G: [laughing] Just like me for real! [C: He's so funny.] We need this guy to talk to Neil Gaiman. [C laughs]

C: He was like, "IRL, Barnes sells stereo equipment and I fix copiers, so our lives suck. Being Sam and Dean, like, waking up every morning and saving the world and having a brother who would die for you? Who wouldn't want that?" Me. I would not want that. It sounds bad.

G: I don't want it either.

C: I don't want it. It's so fascinating how it's like, the male fans are like, "I want to be Sam and Dean," and the female fans are like, "I want to fuck Sam and Dean" seems to be the dichotomy that the Supernatural writers are creating. [G: That's true.] I don't think anyone wants to be Sam and Dean due to how the Dean and Sam story sucks, but I don't know.

G: You should not be saying this in front of me. [laughs]

C: Fair. But you don't want to wake up every morning and save the world or have a brother who would die for you. You just want the aesthetic.

G: I want nothing of their life. I just want the look.

C: Dean's like, "Okay, maybe you're right. And you two don't make a bad team yourselves. How do you know each other, anyway?" And apparently, they met online in a Supernatural chatroom.

G: [laughing] Just like us.

C: Just like us. And Dean goes, "It must be nice to get out of your parents' basement and make some friends." Stop being mean! Demian goes, "We're more than friends."

G: Not like us. [both laugh]

C: Not like us. And then he takes Barnes's hand, and then he goes [G: It's cute.], "We're partners." And then Barnes, like, puts his head on Demian's shoulder, and they're both smiling.

G: Yeah! And it's so cute!

C: It's sweet, I agree. However, I think that in the context of Supernatural, I'm rather- I'm cautious about giving praise too quickly. Anyway, especially because Dean gives the most homophobic look ever. [both laugh] And he goes, "Oh. Wow. Huh. Howdy, partners."

G: "Howdy, partners." [both laughing] Why would he say that?

G: I don't see a way to read this that isn't homophobic in terms of, like, Dean's reaction. 'Cause I feel like beforehand, everyone was like, "Of course, it's weird, 'cause they're cosplaying him and his brother!" [G: It's not!] But like, it's the next day. He knows their names. Like, they're not in character. [G: Yeah.] It's like-

G: The show goes out of their way to tell us these people's names. Like, I think that means something in terms of delineating those parts of the story now.

C: Right. So like, he's just homophobic. [laughs] [G: He's just homophobic.] He really is just homophobic, yeah.

G: Here's the thing. Because, you know, I mean, slightly different situation, because for me, coming out, it's more on the trans area. People just assume that I'm attracted to women. [C laughs] So like, when I come out as trans, people are like- they don't know what to say because there's no social script for it, or at least for where I am, there's no, like, existing social script for it. So I was trying to think of it in that way. Like, "Maybe, like, there's just no social script [C laughing] for, like, 'We're together.'"

C: [laughing] You're trying so hard.

G: Am I? Am I trying incredibly hard?

C: Okay, if one of the cosplayers was a woman, would Dean react in this way?

G: Well, no, because he would just assume that they're already together.

C: So- but like, okay. But like, I don't know. If he didn't. I don't know how to- You're right that he would just assume, so it's hard to make an equivalent. But I do think that if he didn't think that they were together, 'cause they were acting too much like nerds or whatever for him to think that they could be in a relationship, I don't think he would react that way.

G: Okay, yeah, you're right. [both laugh] You're absolutely right. Because I'm trying to think of like- Because, again, I was trying to think of it in a gender way. And it's like, "Yeah, there's no social script for 'I'm actually a dude'" because, like, that's not a common thing to say.

C: I think the social script is that you just say, "Cool."

G: But the social script for "We're together" is obviously the same social script as "We're together" for a heterosexual couple. [C: Yeah.] Like, yeah, you're right. [laughs]I'm trying to excuse this so much. [C laughing] And no, I don't think the reaction is just "It's cool," because there are people who say that and are not happy about it. So-

C: What do you mean?

G: I definitely interacted with people where they go, like, "I'm trans," and I'm like, "That's great!" And that's not what they wanna hear.

C: Wait. What do they want to hear?

G: "Are you okay?" [laughs] [C: What?] Yeah. I mean, I'm grateful to exist in an environment- Well, maybe not an environment. I'm grateful to exist as a person who is very happy with who I am, but there are people who don't feel that way about their identity and do not appreciate being like, [C: Huh.] "Oh, that's so cool that you're trans!" because they don't think that's cool. And, like, obviously, that's, you know.

C: Sorry. [G: Yeah, I know.] That sounds unfortunate.

G: I remember, like, the first time someone was like, "How should I react to this?" about me coming out to them and being like, "What the fuck do you mean? What are you talking about?" [C laughs] But now, like, I understand. I get it.

C: I guess. Like, yeah, okay, sure.

G: Especially when they're coming out to me because I'm very visible, and so sometimes, people come out to me in a like, "I need someone who is queer to know, but like, in commiseration, not exactly in a, you know, in like, 'I'm proud of it.'" [C: Mm.] It's complicated. I love you, transgender people, and I hope we all love ourselves.

C: But yeah, okay. Dean's homophobic. We've established this. [G laughing] For suresies, he is homophobic.

G: [laughing] I love you, trans people. And also, Dean is homophobic. [C laughing]

C: I love you, trans people, and you should all love yourself, unless you're Dean Winchester, who is homophobic. [G laughing] You should probably not love yourself. Yeah, okay, regarding where this is in the-

G: But "Howdy, partner" is kind of an insane thing to say. [C laughing] I don't think we've addressed it enough. [both laughing] "Howdy, partner" is an insane thing to say. What is wrong with him? And Barnes does say, like, "Howdy," so.

C: I guess regarding the- Okay, they, like, they got a GLAAD nomination for this, right?

G: I think, yeah, there is like, you know, Dean reacts homophobically to it, but these people are people, [C: Yeah.] like, I love that. I don't know. Like, I don't think their portrayal at all is homophobic. It's the reaction. It's the same way, like, I'm not sure if you've watched "It's Always Sunny." [C: No.] I've watched like, the first season or the first two, which is like, when it was bad, apparently, because Danny Devito doesn't show up yet. But there is an episode there that is vitriolically, like, transmisogynistic, right? And it's this interesting look into it because the transmisogyny exists as like, the characters reacting to the person and the characters and the the story being like, "Haha, you're right" or framing it as like, the characters' gripes are normal or okay. [C: Valid, whatever, yeah.] But the woman in question is like, one of the most non-caricature portrayal of trans women I've ever seen. Like, she's just a person. And it's like, it's that interesting, you know, like, the reaction of the characters is so bad, but the character itself is like, not at all. [C: Right.] The character's just a person. I don't know. That's how I feel about this, I guess. Not that much. Not to that extreme. [C: Right.] That episode is truly godawful transmisogynistic. But like, this one is like, this passing line by Dean. It's like, yeah, you can read it as homophobic because it is [both laugh], as we've established, but like, the characters are not at all- They're portrayed respectfully, I think, etc.

C: Yeah, I do think- I think my main gripe in their portrayal is just that they, like, I don't know. They don't act much like a couple before [G: The reveal, yeah.] this reveal. And I think the point of it is, like, [G: "Surprise!"] to drop it on you here, like, "Surprise!"And I don't know. Is our reaction to the "Surprise!" supposed to be Dean's reaction? Like, is Dean meant to be an audience proxy as like a, "Eugh! I didn't know that!" or like, is that just Dean.

G: Dean's supposed to be an audience proxy. In this moment, 100%.

C: Yeah. So like, it is- Like, Eric Kripke is going, like, "It's kinda gross that they're gay, right?" Like, he is going like that.

G: Well, I mean, how would they change it? It's not like they can be like, in love while LARPing as Sam and Dean.

C: But they're often not in character, and like, it's very clear when they're in character and when they're not in character based off of, like, their voices, so I feel like you could do a fine enough delineation between those. And also, he was fine with putting "Homoerotic Subtext in Supernatural" as a panel here. So like, there is like a- I don't know. They already introduced Wincest into the environment, you know?

G: Yeah, I mean, I will defend the way it's done, except, like, the way Dean reacts. If Dean was like, "Okay. Cool!" [C: Yeah.] Why didn't he just say, "Okay, cool"? [laughing] What's wrong with him? Literally!

C: You're right that it is difficult to do just because they were cosplaying Sam and Dean. But like, I don't know. If someone is just close to you, like a close friend or like, a close romantic partner, I feel like you seek comfort in each other after a traumatic thing, [G: No.] like a ghost attacking you, more than they did.

G: No. [C: No?] I mean, in the language of TV, yeah. But like, I mean, if we're just going like, "In real life, this is what you do!" I don't think so. In the language of television, sure.

C: I mean like, yeah, in TV.

G: But I don't know. I don't- I don't. I'm fine with how they do it, honestly.

C: Okay. Alright. Alright. If you say so. But yeah, I don't know. Whatever. We have said our points. I'm very happy for them. We don't ever see them again, do we?

G: No. They are so cute, though. Good for them. [C: Yeah, good for them.] And I appreciate the idea that they met in a Supernatural, like, forum. [C: Yeah.] I don't know. I think that's so cute, and, like, the idea of Sam and Dean's story, that they think is so miserable, being, like, a way for people to connect. Like, that's fun.

C: Meanwhile, Sam is talking to Becky and Chuck, and-

G: [laughing] This is pretty funny. Like, Becky is such a misogynistically-written character, and I did not pronounce that well, but yeah.

C: Her actress does a really good job with just being a comedic actress, but unfortunately, she was given the material she was given. Like, earlier, when she, like, blows Sam a kiss, but it's not a kiss because she just licks her entire palm [G laughs] and blows it at him?

G: [laughing] It's really so funny.

C: Like, that was really good. Yeah, like, she is samlicker-whatever number it is that I forgot. Sam goes- and he's talking to Becky, and the camera is just her face. And she goes, "Look, Sam. I'm not gonna lie. We had undeniable chemistry. But like a monkey on the sun, it was too hot to live. It can't go on. Chuck and I, we found each other. My yin to his proud yang. And well, the heart wants the heart wants. I'm so, so sorry!" [laughing] And then the camera zooms out a little, and Chuck is standing right next to her.

G: [laughing] Right beside her. It's pretty funny!

C: It's pretty good. And he goes, "Yeah, Sam. Sorry." [both laugh] He was apologizing for cutting the Samchuck love story short. That was his apology. [G: Exactly.] And Becky goes, "Will you be alright?" I think Chuck sort of gives Sam a meaningful look, and Sam [G: Yeah.] pulls his community theater face on. I do think it's very sweet that Sam spends this entire episode, like, indulging people, you know? [laughs] [G: Yeah.] Like, he does it with Demian and Barnes. He does it with Becky here. Like, I think he is more able to separate himself from the Supernatural story and be like, "This is meaningful for people, and I will just be nice." [G: Yeah.] Yeah, I don't know. Maybe he's just trying to do his good deeds. He's like, "I raised Lucifer, [laughs] but at least I can make these people happy." He goes, "[dramatically] Honestly, I don't know. I'll just have to find a way to keep living, I guess." And this is the right thing to say. Becky loves this.

G: Yeah, this was about Chuck. [laughs]

C: It was literally about Chuck. And she goes, "God bless you!"

G: "God bless you," which is so fun because God is right beside them!

C: So true! And Sam goes, "Okay. Oh, hey, Chuck, if you really want to publish more books, I guess that's okay with us." And Chuck goes, "Wow, really?" [G: "Really?"] And Sam goes, "No. Not really. We have guns, and we will find you." [both laughing] So fucking funny. I love this guy. [G: He is so iconic!] He's being gun boy. And Chuck goes, "Okay, no more books." And Sam's walking away, and then Becky runs after him, and she goes, "Sam, wait. One more thing. In Chapter 33 of Supernatural: Time is on My Side, there's that girl, Bela? She was British and a cat burglar? She stole the Colt from you, and then she said she gave it to Lilith." And then she goes, "Well, you know she lied, right? Like, she didn't really give it to Lilith. Didn't you read the book?" So real. And apparently, she gave it to a demon named Crowley who was Lilith's right-hand man and her lover, too. I didn't know that about Crowley.

G: Well, Crowley gets it on. We're gonna meet Crowley soon. [C: Yeah.] Next episode.

C: Yeah, well, do we? Okay, I know we get Meg again, and I know that Jo and Ellen die.

G: There's gonna be death next episode, and the picture and Cas. Oh my god, I miss Cas! We're gonna see him again!

C: Chuck just didn't remember this because he's not that big of a fan, but [G: He DGAF.] Becky tells Sam everything.

G: Sam and Dean, like, they meet at the Impala. I can't believe they went to a Supernatural convention and nobody saw their car and went, "Oh my god!" and then took pictures of it, like, for everyone and God to see, which is what I would do. [laughs]

C: Wasn't he- The joke is that they pull up to the motel, and there's like, four other Impalas there.

G: Is there really? [C: Yeah, you didn't notice?] How'd they get them? No, not at all. How do they get them?

C: You can buy cars. [laughs]

G: This is true, but you know, Impalas are very expensive.

C: It is difficult for older cars. It is expensive, but I guess they're big enough fans.

G: [laughing] You know how I know? I said, do you know how I know? [laughs]

C: 'Cause you looked it up?

G: Of course I have. Who hasn't? [C: Me.] Let's be for real right now. If you're listening to this podcast, you have looked up how much an Impala is.

C: I mean, I haven't looked it up.

G: Yeah, but you're not listening to this podcast.

C: I don't think Danica has.

G: This is true, but Danica is a unique person, [laughs] [C: Yeah.] which none of our other listeners are. [both laughing] I'm just kidding! I love all-

C: Danica and Wanni are unique people.

G: Yeah. Okay, let's just say this. If you are listening to this podcast, the chances of you having looked up the price of an Impala or if there's any of them being sold near you are higher. So if this is true, shoot us an email, [email protected]. [C laughing]

C: Yeah, or a Tumblr ask. Whatever.

G: Sam tells Dean that, like, he's got a lead on the Colt, and yeah. They get in. And like, there's this, like, mini compilation of stuff Chuck said on stage. And it was like, he goes like, "Like a lot of authors, I started writing because of love. Yeah, I had a huge crush on Nancy McKeon, who played Jo in The Facts of Life." [laughs] And there's like, a cut to Sam and Dean, doing their- putting their finger over their neck and then a like, "kill-"

C: Oh, yeah, they're doing the "We're gonna kill you" gestures. Sam is doing a "We're gonna slit your throat," and Dean's doing, like, a gun to the head thing. [laughs]

G: Which is truly so quintessentially Sam and Dean! [C: Yes.] He's like, "I wrote 40, 50 letters, and she never wrote back." [laughs] And this next one is like, my favorite line this episode. I actually laughed so loud. He goes like, "I don't think the Benders made flesh suits out of the other victims. Like, maybe just a couple of scarves." [both laugh] which is so so funny! And yeah, just a couple more stuff. I don't know. It's good! At some point, he goes, "The way I look at it, it's not really jumping the shark if you'd never come back down, you know?" So true.

C: So true. And huh, there's also a deleted scene. Okay, interesting. Yeah, I'm glad they deleted, okay, all of the things. Apparently there's a cut thing where he says that he's sorry for his negative depictions of witches 'cause doesn't want to offend anyone in the Wiccan community, and there's something to be said for a lady that doesn't shave. Well, I understand why they cut that one. He says that his favorite supporting character is Bela, and then the audience boos. [G: Noo!] No! I would have been cheering and clapping!

G: He says his hobbies are drinking, funny car racing, and macrame! Chuck, he would love to crochet.

C: Chuck and Zachariah should hang out. Wait! Apparently, Chuck's dad is gay. Who's Chuck's dad in this universe where he's God? [both laughing] Sorry. One of the cut lines is, " John isn't based on my father. Uh, my father's more like Bobby, actually. Except, he's older, doesn't have a beard, and he's gay." [G, laughing: Iconic. I love it.] Who's your dad? Iconic. And also, Bobby is gay also, so I don't know what you're talking about, Chuck.

G: Well, Bobby's bisexual, and he's making the distinction between-

C: Oh, okay, he's not using gay as an umbrella term, I see.

G: Exactly. Do you think they scripted all of this, or they were just like, "Rob, get on with it!"

C: I think it was improv-ed. It feels improv-y.

G: Yeah. I think it is. It has the vibe of an improv.

C: Right, 'cause I feel like the Sam and Dean doing the "we're gonna kill you" gestures feels more like the actors than in character.

G: I really like Chuck. I do. He's he's crept up to be like, I think, [laughs] my second favorite character in most of Supernatural.

C: Wait, sorry, Demian and Barnes are the names of the moderators on the Supernatural forums at Television Without Pity. Are the moderators, like, together [G: Gay? Are the moderators together?] or did they just- I don't know if the moderators are together or if they just made this up for the [both laughing]- Either way, it's kind of crazy to do that.

G: It is. You know what? In Season 16 of Supernatural, which may or may not happen [C: Mm.] I'm not sure. Maybe it won't happen, but=

C: Wait, Barnes is a woman- The actual moderator Barnes is a woman.

G: So they genderbent it to be gay. [C: Yes.] Okay, that's cool. Or is it? [C: I don't know.] I think it's cool.

C: I don't know. I mean, I just don't think they should have taken names from actual fans in the first place.

G: No, the joke I was gonna make is, in Season 16 of Supernatural, [C laughs] which may or may not happen in varying degrees according to the people on my timeline [C: It won't.], they should have characters named Crystal and Grey. [C: They should.] I think that'd be hilarious.

C: God bless. They absolutely should.

G: Yeah.

G: Well, what did we think about this episode? Obviously, I loved it. [C: Yes.] And you did, too. Wow!

C: Yeah, I had fun the whole time. Most of the whole time.

G: Who would have thought this day would come? Like-

C: I mean, there are episodes that we have liked.

G: This is true, but I feel like it's been so long since you liked an episode.

C: Hmm. Perhaps.

G: In a more than, like, "It was fine" way. [C: Yeah.] Maybe your love is coming back. Have you thought about that? No.

C: I don't think that's what it is. I think what it is is that I spent four hours trying to force myself to write an essay, and I couldn't get myself to write a single word, and then I went, [G: Oh yeah.] "I give up. I'm just gonna watch Supernatural." [laughs] I think I was in the right mind to let all of Supernatural in yesterday.

G: And in case any future employers are listening to this episode- [laughs]

C: I love writing essays! I love writing papers! I love doing research and lit reviews! [G laughs]

G: Exactly. Well, Best Line/Worst Line? I love every single line Chuck said, I should say. You know what? I like the reveal that they're partners. I like it. I like that Sam saying, "No, not really, we have guns and we'll find you." I thought it was funny.

C: Yeah, my favorite is the "No, not really. We have guns, and we'll find you." [laughs]

G: I really like the line about the Benders, which- [laughs] I really like it so much. And there were so many moments in this episode where I had a giggle. I had a laugh. A chuckle, even. And yeah. [C: Yeah.] I don't know. What is your worst line?

C: I'm sure one of the Becky ones is quite bad.

G: You know what? I also like the case. The case isn't the point.

C: It was very Season 1 with like, [G: Yeah. Evil mother, evil kids, yeah.] a formulaic twist. Yeah. I could take or leave the the case, yeah. Oh wait, my worst line is when the actress for Leticia Gore goes, like, "Oh, but you seem different." to Dean.

G: You're right. You're right. You're absolutely right. But I would say, like, the case, like, is good for what it is like. Like, it's a background case, you know? It's not supposed to be center of the episode.

C: Sorry. I'm looking at the- The wiki links a script, and apparently, in the cast list, there was meant to be a Korean Dean and a Korean Sam. [G laughs] I don't want to know what their plans were [laughs] for the characters Korean Dean and Korean Sam.

G: [laughing] And their names are Crystal and Grey.

C: [laughing] Neither of us are Korean! But yeah, I think Supernatural would not distinguish. Wait, now, okay, I want to see the part of the script where the couple reveal happens. I want to know what- Oh, they wrote down the- Okay, it wasn't improv, all the Chuck extra lines are in this script. Rob Benedict is not actually funny.

G: Well, he's a funny scripted actor. That's still something.

C: Huh. Actually, Jensen Ackles is the homophobic one.

G: I mean, we have already established that Jensen Ackles is homophobic. What does it say?

C: Sorry. [laughing] Sorry. This is so funny! Um- [laughing] Someone next to this section, uh, wrote, "not gross" and underlined it! [both laughing] [both screaming] Um. [laughing] God. They deserved that GLAAD award! "Not gross." So true!

G: So, literally, Jensen Ackles [both laughing] is just homophobic.

C: But okay, the actual direction that is in the notes is "Dean takes this in. The sight of two guys dressed as Sam and Dean. Intimate like this. It's a bit awkward. (But still, there's respect here)." [laughs] Jensen Ackles is just so homophobic.

G: I mean, maybe he took in the part that, like, "Two guys dressed as Sam and Dean" more.

C: Yeah. Maybe he ran with that part a little bit too much.

G: But if I'm being completely honest, it does not read like that at all.

C: Yeah. They're not really dressed as- Okay, the thing is that, in Supernatural [G: Everybody's dressed as them!], there's like, two types of outfits, and everyone is dressed like Sam and Dean.

G: And also, like, I think they are disconnected enough from the Sam and Dean- Like, we have not seen them act as Sam and Dean for a while at that point. [C: Mm-hm.] It's like, removed from them.

C: They have separate names. They have separate voices. Yeah.

G: And also, like, the last time they were Sam and Dean was like, when they were, like, digging up the bones, pretty much, the first time around. [C: Yeah.] And so many things have happened already, and they've existed way beyond that already.

C: Yeah. The majority of their time together has been when they were not acting like Sam and Dean. [G: Not LARPing, yeah.] Yeah, it's strange that they brought that into this part of the transcript. Like, yeah, I just don't think that should have [G: That is something, yeah.] been something the characters we're thinking about or the writers we're thinking about at this point.

We have to do the writer sins now, right? [laughs]

G: Okay, writer sins.

C: Okay. Misogyny exists in the way that Becky is written.

G: Yes, and I think just the general non-existence of other women.

C: Yeah, yeah, and the contrast between former female characters who are fans, and like, current male fans.

G: I'm actually willing to put it as 3. I think it's fundamental to the episode. [C: Alright!] I think you think about it. Like, it's not the-

C: Yeah. Go for it.

G: 3. Racism. No. They did not put Korean Sam and Dean-

C: They did not have Korean- [both laugh] I wish that script was ctrl+F-able. I need to know if, like, there's lines for them, like, in the-

G: [laughing] For Korean Sam and Dean?

C: Yeah. We'll never find out. This is so sad.

G: Homophobia.

C: In Dean's reaction, definitely. But that might just be Jensen Ackles's fault, actually. [laughs]

G: But it's still in the show.

C: It is still in the show, yeah, but I guess since this tab is called "writer sins." [G: Yeah.] Like, the script seems to be making an effort to be like, "We don't want to be homophobic!" But they still let it go.

G: But I think it still comes across as such.

C: Yeah, I think it should still count. But for how many points?

G: I mean, we still also have the director here. [C: That's true.] Like, we also put the director in the writer sins.

C: That is true.

G: I would say this is maybe- I would defend it as a 1 because of the aforementioned "the characters that are gay are written well and treated well," so I don't want to-

C: Right. But also, like, they're treated well during the time when we don't know that they're gay, and as soon as they're gay, it's like, Jensen Ackles makes a homophobic face and then leaves, [laughs] you know?

G: But- I don't know. Like, you see them at the end, and, I don't know, they're just leaning against each other, so.

C: Yeah. They're cute. Okay, I will not fight for a 2, but in my heart it is a 2. [laughs]

G: You know what? Because I'm kind today, do you want to do a 1.5? [laughs]

C: Really? [both laughing] Aw, thanks! Yeah, I'll do 1.5. [G: Okay!] [G laughing] Historical. Or, no, historic. Historical means regarding history. Historic means like- Anyway. It's historic.

G: Historic. A historic shift.

C: Alright. IMDb. I have no fucking clue. 'Cause, okay, we looved it, but like- I don't know. People like funny ones.

G: I'm not sure. Definitely, it's lower than-

C: It's definitely lower than "Changing Channels."

G: Yeah, which I think is wrong.

C: People do like funny ones. It might be less funny because it follows a funny one. They might not care that much. People's attitude towards Chuck- "Monster At the End of This Book" got a 9.2, so people seem to like the meta things. I don't wanna put it over a 9 because I don't think it is, but also, like, I've been, like, underrepresenting, for like, the last three episodes, and I just wanna fail in the opposite direction, so I'm just gonna do a 9.0.

G: Hm. I'm gonna go a 9.1, actually.

C: Okay.

G: Okay, let's do it. Oh! [C: What?] It's an 8.8.

C: Okay, I got closer this time. That's nice.

G: I'm sad that that's the case!

C: Yeah, it's almost a full point lower than "Changing Channels," and I enjoyed it more.

G: Yeah. " The most irritating episode ever, and as fine as every other Supernatural episode." [C: Huh.] "I found this episode to be truly irritating as the 'fake' versions of Sam and Dean constantly interfered, or simply said something annoying. But, I began to understand what it must feel like for the characters if it was real life..."

C: Boo. Who give a fuck?

G: Who give a fuck about them if it was real life. They're not real.

C: Yeah, they literally aren't. They gave it 10 out of 10, though. [laughs]

G: Yeah. I mean, they just said, like, "I thought it was irritating, but in a way, that was befitting."

C: Yeah. I guess so.

G: Oh, I'm so excited for Supernatural to be funny and silly!

C: I mean, when does that happen to you?

G: Um, now. [both laughing]

C: Yeah, you don't need to wait anymore.

G: This is to say that like-

C: Someone says, "Name one other show that has the same or similar quirkiness." I don't think you watch that much TV.

G: Yeah. Well, I don't either. [C laughs] Maybe that's why I love Supernatural so much, like-

C: Huh, this person says that Season 4 sucked and the beginning of Season 5 sucked, but "The Real Ghostbusters" didn't disappoint. What do they want from Supernatural? [G laughing] Okay, they're happy about there being an old hotel, a ghost, and unexpected twist and flirty Dean.

G: This one says this is "The single worst episode in the first five seasons. Holy crap so cringey." And the title is called "Barf." Wow.

C: Okay, this one says that "It's hard to see Damien and Barnes as anything but objects of derision. It feels more like mocking their queer fans than including them in some way." [G: Huh!] I'm trying to- Let me try to get in that mindset. Is it because Dean made a homophobic face?

G: No, I think it's because throughout the episode-

C: They were annoying.

G: I didn't think they were irritating at all.

C: Yeah, I didn't find them irritating, but I think we are supposed to find them irritating. But I think we're also supposed to like, turn around on them by the end. They do go through a journey where they're like, "You're right. I can't handle this life as well as you, and for some reason that makes me annoying. But I'm still gonna be brave and whatever whatever." Like, I think we're supposed to like them by the end. But like, is that- am I- like, is that correct? I mean, I don't know. The scripts said "not gross" on it, so- [laughing] I think we're supposed to like them.

G: That’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 5, Episode 10: "Abandon All Hope." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

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