#Discourse Dump

[ndotmov]

pearl had one of the most reasonable crashouts in cartoon history I can’t imagine losing my 8 foot pink haired goddess after ~8000 years of fooling around together just for her to choose Greg after 5 minutes of knowing each other (in their perception of time) LOL. like I can go on and on about their (pearl and rose’s) dynamic as partners because I loooveee fictional messy complex relationships

[crustyfloor]

From what I've seen most of the criticism of HyunA's character post-wiege (and the dynamic of HyuLuka as a whole, mostly consisting of comments over how her development and death turned her into a shallow character) comes from a misinterpretation of her character, although I know most concerns are valid and some I agree, I also feel like there is an equal amount of criticisms that are just plainly lacking nuance. Some people genuinely believe HyuLuka's relationship falls into the typical "Victim falls in love with their abuser" cliche and that's why it's bad, and if you understand what that entails, it's such a strange simplification of a complex dynamic, you don't have to like them romantically (I don't either, at least not in canon) or at all actually but the way people outright deny them as a pair denies HyunA and Luka their complexity, their stories are intertwined and aid in each-other's development as characters. Personally I see a lot of people that don't like HyunA's death because it feels as though it made her into a shallow character that just died so Luka could live and she was essentially used as a cheap plot device, but in my interpretation that couldn't be farther from the truth because that's what moving the story along meaningfully means and what I think throws people off is that she did it for Luka, all conflict and other factors aside, she died for Luka and that's the main problem here.

Some people say it's out of character and forced, but people also undermine HyunA's actual personality and character behind the face she shows us, and the rebellion, even though both sides of the same coin are reflected in All-in and Wiege. They want a revenge story from her and they want her to hate Luka completely but that's just not the person she is, it never was and I believe that reflects in her introspective pieces (Ex. Love&peace) but I understand why people resent or are disgusted by Luka, I'm interested in him as a character, but is he one I particularly like? Not really, but then they project that onto HyunA., The problem is that HyunA and Luka are still labeled as victim and abuser by the fandom, even if there was objectively a perpetrator and a victim, given what we're shown. The situation is still far more complex than even that. Luka should not be labeled as an abuser. It's simply a word with too much background in terms of the way we see it and implications that don't accurately apply to him. The way I see it, it's just ignorant to throw that term around, especially in this case

I think it would help a lot of people if they would acknowledge that the world of Alien stage is more fleshed out than it may appear, a lot of aspects and detail is put into account, and most importantly, it is not an excuse when in discussion people say that their environment shapes these characters, it is a fact and it is an explanation so that we can break it down and see the complexity, this nuance is reflected in their world, and in their dynamics with one another. Putting this bluntly, these characters are slaves in an oppressive hyper-capitalistic alien and dystopian universe, deprived of all bodily autonomy, family, moral code, humanity, name it. Everything and their existence pertains to their role as a product; it is not an exaggeration to say, the characters are different from us. They are just a step above feral children, and that's that. How in the world are we being so crass in handling these characters when it's like this .

CSA is complex, and a lot of people say this and seem to understand so it disappoints me when people go beyond criticizing Luka and straight up call him an abuser or vilify him when 1) he and HyunA were children, 2) Luka's complex and it was difficult for him to understand better given what I've said before, there are lore-centered reasons to explain this too, but that's how I think of it outside of that because it's mostly a morality issue when discussing HyuLuka, again it's to each their own this is just what I think. It's unthoughtful and stupid to go into discussions as delicate as this without an open mind and compassion, or going in expecting these characters to be upstanding members of society, and if they aren't, then they're evil and crooked. Even if you don't particularly care for that certain character, that's what interpreting media is all about. Seeing things from their perspective and as objectively as you can. The characters are the ones who have the right to their biases and whatnot, but viewers are supposed to look beyond that, yeah?

Some people were disappointed when HyunA didn't go through on what they thought she would do, when she wasn't the character they thought she was. Yes, she could've hated Luka, likely should've hated him, she would've been in the right by all means, I'm sure it's what I would've done had I been in her situation but I'm not, every person is different and not every person will process and go about things the same way, and a lot of people tend to think personally and project onto HyunA, people don't want to think outside the box and regard her as badly written when it comes to this very delicate part of their story because she doesn't apply to a certain criteria of what makes a victim in their minds, even though she is very a complex character.

I'm sure it's a puzzling way to see a character develop, to see a person regard someone who hurt them so much and caused so many scars with anything but vitriol, but I think HyunA offers a unique perspective by both hating Luka but understanding and loving Luka regardless, not just because of what he means to her but because she'd do that for anyone she cares about, she doesn't excuse him but she also doesn't villainize him, too many people undermine HyunA's strong and loving, caring nature and her unconditional love for humanity, even with its flaws, and not.

HyunA doesn't love Luka despite everything because she feels obligated or because it was forced for some ulterior motive. This feels most natural for her character, in fact. Because she's always been this type of woman, putting others before herself, being kind and compassionate, and endlessly loving, and that's always been a core aspect of her character, regardless of what she's been through, she doesn't forgive or forget what Luka did of course and she feels a lot for how difficult and strange this dynamic is, resentment and some parts disgust and that's a strong and good part of her character, but she can't help how she feels, she doesn't want to live in the past and live in hate, this is just her honest self

her feelings and her love, and her perspective explain why she dies, and I believe it was meaningful to her character and to Luka's, all things considered. Yet people want to force her to just feel hatred, she should've let Luka get shot and die with no second thought, or it's a no-brainer that she's just badly written, Vivinos is endorsing abuse, etc. Even though I believe all that is very blatantly false, and there was a lot of thought put into this, more than I even considered tbh.

So you see, I just wanted to brainvomit a bit... I believe these dynamics should be discussed in more media. And it was a perfect opportunity to explore a relationship like HyunA and Luka's in an environment like Alien Stage's universe on Vivino's part, even in its subtlety. They fit seamlessly and sensibly there. More people must be able to think about these relationships thoroughly because what I see on twit is so unthoughtful and narrow-minded, and ignorant, and it's not like HyunA and Luka are the only characters like this that get pulled into some arguments because of it.

This discussion also applies to Ivan and Till's kiss scene. There is no denying it was SA, hard stop. (and I see too many people debating otherwise, like with the Karaoke scene too, like how do you confront people in real life with this mindset. I believe it's because Till, as a character and a victim, isn't treated as seriously or seen as such by some of the fandom, even though these scenes are very blunt. People don't tend to discuss it in good faith or ever at all, ) but there is a similar nuance to their situation, too. And neither character deserves to be rid of that because of what we may feel. Ivan isn't a villain; Ivan also isn't beyond criticism, but he has a background and complexity to provide nuance behind what he did, too. Luka isn't above criticism for also being a victim because he did twisted and bad things, yet he is also complex. None of the characters are above criticism, but there is nuance to everything, you get the gist... This is just what I think after some time to think about it. I don't like to see the representation and commentary on these topics that Alien stage has to offer being mishandled, so I try to think about it the best way I can

[hojichasunrise]

Katara playfully splashes water at Aang, who responded by sulking in a brooding cave and then exploding lava in her face and storming off without any apology. From The Lost Adventures.

Golly gee why don't I want to ship such a wholesome wonderful healthy ship like this? Gee whiz, it's great Katara didn't end with Zuko, otherwise she might get lava thrown at her in an argument from an immature, emotionally unavailable, abusive jerk! /s Oh, right, Aang is the one who did that.

Aang has always been the one to hurt Katara. Funny Zuko hasn't. Remind me again who scarred Katara's hands, who blew up into the avatar state leaving Katara to pull him out lest he destroy her, her brother, and everything around him? Who stormed off right before the finale without communication leaving his friends to die in the invasion? Was it Zuko who did those things? Was it?

Such a wholesome ship!

[weewoo911]

I kinda don’t get fic or spec posts where people cant bear to admit that Buck likes his own boyfriend.

Like you realise that if Buck was dating someone he actively disliked that would make HIM the asshole, right? 🤔

[gor3sigil]

I have to share a story about why I HATE the term "trauma dumping".

So basically, we were at my at the time partner's house with friends of them and we were talking about mental health.

I don't remember exactly how we came to this but one woman started talking about psychosis and her sister who is schizophrenic.

She had a lot of preconception about this and, while I am not schizophrenic, I dealt with psychosis and hallucinations.

So I started to talk about my experiences with that, stating AGAIN that I wasn't schizophrenic but I thought it was an interesting point of view.

Some other people started asking questions so I answered them, asking here and there if it was okay for me to talk about it, and nobody, INCLUDING the woman who started the conversation in the first place, said anything.

And at one point I saw she was uncomfortable and asked her if she'd rather drop the subject.

And then, she BLEW UP on me saying that I was trauma dumping, that she felt like she was partaking in a conversation she NEVER ASKED to partake in (again, she was the one who brought up the subject), that I was being insensitive and over sharing shit and that she didn't like it.

Like, bitch, I asked a bunch of time if it was okay, you were the one talking about these symptoms without even living it and trying to teach people some crappy over the counter shit, but now that she wasn't the Main Character with the Knowledge it became an issue and I was the problem.

I know that I'm open about my experiences and tend to talk about it but I ALWAYS make sure that people on the other end are okay with me sharing this. This was just utter bullshit.

And online or IRL, I just noticed that the term "trauma dumping" is just the easy way out of a conversation that makes you feel uncomfortable while putting the blame on the person doing it.

You can absolutely put boundaries, but don't you dare guilt someone just to avoid being seen as an asshole and make yourself clean of anything. It's healthy to state that you are uncomfortable talking about things, but you can do so without making up shit about others.

[kokodain-nation]

Me being proship has nothing to do with your trauma. It's not about you.

[ndotmov]

I was inspired by @angelkittiezz ‘s Pink Diamond design !! I really wanted to harp on the Jester inspo RS initially planned. I love Pink sooooo so much. Everyone always complains about wanting complicated women in media but could barely handle Rose/Pink lol. I just love how messy and complex her character is.

[paristexasfan]

i think borderlands finally pushed me over the edge that i should not engage with online character discourse with any piece of media ever because the takes i have seen have always been not only consistently bad but consistently weird and unhinged

[astral-herald]

"my place is down there"

so i'll never claim that arcane is an inherently pro-revolution, pro-class consciousness show, as much as i wish they would just commit and go for it. sometimes the centrism is pretty stifling - you have to keep the narrative marketable somehow!

but i love that they at least foregrounded this theme in the first act, from one of their youngest characters.

it does so many things:

establishes love as turbulent, violent, fierce, motivating. a lot of things we see done out of love in arcane (especially act 1) end in abject failure, despite good intentions, and despite coming from such a genuine place like vi's desire for powder to have a better life.

classism IS an issue in arcane's narrative. in fact, i'd argue it's the driving force (as i have argued in some of my other posts).

it reiterates the physicality of the class divide, making it pretty unmissable to even the most casual viewer - vi's place is PHYSICALLY down there.

it's a fucking excellent example of environmental storytelling, albeit brief. we technically don't fully know what she's referring to (obv we extrapolate from the very opening scene that the revolt vander helmed inadvertently led to their parents' deaths). we see the aftermath. we highlight the aftermath. we linger more on the effect than the event. what an amazing way to keep momentum for the story!

as we're starting to see materialize in the run-up for s2, this is one of the earliest instances of foreshadowing for vi. she'll, at least to some degree, betray this sentiment she's carried with her (for what she feels is the greater good. i don't think cop vi is as non-nuanced as some fan debates have depicted so far. i'm interested to see it play out!).

"my place is down there" is just such a simple but effective line. man. and during the rest of the show we see those places uprooted and shaken up as characters like vi trickle in and out of the above and the below. messing with piltover's absolutist hold over the undercity. i love it here.

[pastel-kaleesh]

As much as I like to look at pictures of my F/Os on pinterest, it annoys me to see these kids who think that porn in general sucks and how it's the worst thing ever just because it's uncomfortable to them.

Look kids, society runs on people who make a living from porn. If it makes you uncomfortable, just look away. Don't act like it should be expelled from the universe. Censorship is about control. You say you're anti-censorship until adult content draws the line. You say you support sex workers until it's about sex work.

A reminder that you are not immune to propaganda.

[ranna-alga]

Crowley and Aziraphale justifying their respective understandings about how humans fall in love with each other on fictional media they consume is literally the asexual/aromantic/aspec experience are you kidding me

[nukbody]

I DEVOURED Yellowface by Rebecca F. Kuang in 3 days and had to do something about it

[lurking-latinist]

I like it when Act II Despard and Margaret are played with a simmering, Addams-like sexual energy running beneath their prim and proper facades. I don't know if this is a minority interpretation, but I think they really are blissfully happy and playing the roles of fun-hating Victorian moralists is exactly what they want to do together.

[wavesoutbeingtossed]

Sometimes do you ever remember the soupçon of misogyny in the press during the early (and latter) days of Joever and want to bust kneecaps lmao

[vigilskept]

re: the rana is neve’s faction post (100% agree — her & dock town are neve’s ride or dies) while i rly love the whole dynamic there…

i feel like it really contributed to the disconnect u get in game between what the shadow dragons are and what kinds of faction quests you, the player, are engaging in for them.

it’s about dock town.

the actual work we’re doing has little to no relation to enslaved people (whether formerly or presently). it’s all about dock town and its people.

and dock town’s fine. dock town’s great! but there’s another faction whose ties to dock town are stronger: the threads…….. who are also the main faction to make an appearance in neve’s personal quests.

the overall feeling i got at the end of the questline was that it came down to whether she’d choose to keep working alone (not WITH the dragons) or with the threads, choosing to maintain her optimism or conceding that dock town might need someone who’s willing to get their hands dirty for them.

not about the dragons, not about slavery.

[clickabletale]

People who hate on Lance because of shipping and call him a misogynist/misogynistic. I’ll say it, y’all are just fucking weird.