#Daniel Dukes
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caffeinatedvigilantewriter · 4 months ago
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So Dani has gotten captured by the GIW, and got reverted to her chronological age (7, she was 19 when she was captured. Team phantom was attending collage and couldn’t get to her in time)
Luckily, Bruce Wayne, training to be Batman, breaks into the Base and rescues her.
He invites her to joins him while traveling and she accepts. But, after a while Bruce heads back to Gotham and they part way. (Dani was 8). Dani was the kid he never had.
Dani visits whenever Bruce’s kids are all away, so she’s never meet them. And Bruce forgets to mention the fact that they all have an older sister (Bruce is her emergency guardian)
There are multiple ways the batkids can find out about Dani
“Bruce? I found your old video logs from when you trained to be Batman, and who’s the kid you’re with?”
“Oh that your sister. She’s dead”
———————
“All in favor for Phantasm the ghost girl to join the JLD?!”
“Superman, I thought I said that none of my kids will be joking the Justice League while I’m still alive.”
“She’s your kid? But she dead!”
———————
“BRUCE! I thought you said you were in Paris for a mission with a partner?”
“I was.”
“Then why is there a photo of you in a cafe with a women three years older than Dick?!”
“She was my partner.”
“Who is she?”
“She’s your sister, Duke.”
———————
“Oh no!? How do we defeat big bad ghost baddie?!?”
“Hn. I will call in an expert.”
“Batman, you know someone who is an expert with ghosts? Who is she?”
“My daughter.”
“Black Bat?”
“No, my other daughter.”
“Spoiler?”
“No. My oldest daughter.”
“Oracle?”
“No.”
“What other daughter do you have?”
“Dani. She’s dead.”
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knifknightkorner · 6 months ago
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Bruce is not dumbfounded by a lot of things. Learning that one of his kids is getting married without telling him they were dating in the first place. Now Bruce has no time to stalk this "Danny" fellow because the soon-to-be in-laws are arriving at the manor soon.
Or Batfam tries to be normal for the in-laws and gets steamrolled by the madness that is the Fentons.
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toytle · 2 years ago
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everything abt this is outdated but ykw. tag yourself anyway, i’m jean and fred
text ID under cut:
lasik (scott): 1) gifted kid burnout + eldest sibling syndrome 2) leader by choice(..?) 3) “this is fine.”
mom jeans (jean): 1) leader but not by choice 2) never forgets a birthday 3) gets away with things due to her reputation
fuzzy elf (kurt): 1) tries to be hip with the kids (is a kid) 2) honorary catboy 3) fingerguns his way out of situations
:3 (kitty): 1) impulsive shopper 2) livetweets everything 3) says ‘omg’ and ‘ttyl’ outloud 4) bakes muffins for her friends! they are inedible!
skater boi (evan): 1) cool guy syndrome 😎 (undiagnosed adhd) 2) steals food off his friends' plates 3) PARKOUR!
e-girl blueprint (rogue): 1) hopeless romantic 2) only child AND middle child energy 3) knows the best thrifting spots
“””team leader””” (lance): 1) tries a lot, fails a lot 2) anger is default emotion 3) probably named his car betty or smth
actual team leader (pietro). 1) cool guy syndrome 😎 (unmedicated adhd) 2) causes problems on purpose 3) motivated by attention
toad (todd): 1) thinks he's just soo funny. well, he is. 2) hasn't showered in a month 3) stays out of drama but Will grab the popcorn
bombshell blonde (tabitha): 1) self-loathing vs superiority complex: fight! 2) flirts with friends 3) parties to avoid being alone with her thoughts
scarlet bitch (wanda): 1) hates authority figures 2) cuts her own hair. and clothes. 3) in a constant state of overstimulation 4) deserves to snap tbh
hey it’s (fred)!: 1) cries easily 2) would literally murder for friends 3) treats plushies like living creatures
professor clean (xavier): 1) “hello el gee bee tee que community" 2) adopts every child he sees 3) knows everything and yet nothing at all
grrrr (logan): 1) that sounds like a you problem." 2) acts like he hates kids but tacks their drawings to the fridge 3) believes that violence is the answer
weather report (ororo): 1) everyone's bisexual awakening 2) has high expectations for everyone, including herself 3) live laugh love 😊😊😊 or else
mr beast but like actually (hank): 1) god, i could really use a drink." *makes chamomile tea* 2) longs to be a smooth rock basking in the sun 3) gives unwarranted life lessons
another blue one (mystique): 1) #girlboss 2) “gay rights but only for me" 3) loves her son but will dropkick other children
magnum dong (magneto): 1) heterophobic 2) "you have the moral backbone of a chocolate eclair" 3) does not love his son AND will dropkick other children
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tampire · 11 months ago
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Hello~! Crowley likes James Bond a normal amount.
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firstaffiliatepatient · 2 years ago
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demonic0angel · 1 month ago
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Animal AU (click for clarity)
CW: blood and creepy stuff in the description
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If I have to color Dani one more time, I’m going to riot 😭
Notes below: (very long and detailed)
+ Jazz is a melanistic gray wolf, Danny is an albino mule deer, Dan is a king cobra, Dani is a peregrine falcon. Some of these ideas are taken from my dp royal court ideas.
I associate Jazz with wolves and canines. She is very loyal and protective, which I think would be best associated with canines. I usually give her the largest animals possible (because of her height), and gray wolves are the largest of all wolves. She is melanistic due to the fact that I like her color palette of black and turquoise. It also gives her a special connection to Danny that I do on purpose where they are black and white.
Dan is associated with cold blooded animals in my mind, cold in demeanor, vicious, and slippery. He is a king cobra because king cobras are the largest of all venomous snakes. They are also not true cobras, which adds a nice connection to Dan as being the most different out of all of the halfas. Surprisingly, king cobras are rather friendly to humans, which might be because of how smart they are.
I associate Dani with fast and speedy animals, so I often give her the fastest animals I can find lmao. Peregrine falcons are the fastest birds in the world, due to their diving speeds. I like how Dani is considered a bird because she is very free-spirited and flighty in my mind. I love it because I think she’d be really independent and would love the sky. Peregrine falcons also mostly eat birds, just like how king cobras eat other snakes, so that’s pretty cool too.
Danny is both kingly and creepy, which describes deer very well. Mule deer are very common in the US, and you might recognize them due to the fact that the Great Prince of the Forest (in Bambi) is inspired by a mule deer. Deer are fascinating creatures because there have been many, many folklores and myths about them, but none can compare to the real facts. Deer are very heavily affected by diseases such as chronic wasting disease, which can cause very strange behaviors. They get up after death, they walk off after being shot at or run over, they kill themselves repeatedly, they eat other animals, and they walk on their hind legs. All in all, while deer are very majestic and beautiful, they are also very, very freaky. There is a sense of poetry in how they’re hunted, which also applies to Danny. I think deer describes him very well :)
+ Meanwhile, the Batkids are a wild assortment of animals. Dick is a white throated needletail, Jason is an argali sheep, Cass is a black footed cat, Tim is a red fox, Stephanie is a dingo, Duke is an African lion, and Damian is a domestic cat (specifically a tuxedo cat).
Dick was always meant to be a bird. However, I wanted him to be fast, but not a bird of prey (which are usually the top 5 fastest birds). So I chose a white throated needletail for him, who are believed to be the fastest (while flying straight). They’re very elusive and photos are rare :( they are, however, very round and cute, and they even have a patch of shiny blue feathers on their wings, as well as v-shaped white spots, similar to his Nightwing suit!
Jason is an argali sheep because I associate him with lambs and rams. Mostly because sheep and lambs are associated with God and religious sacrifices (*cough cough* Jason dying), as well as innocence, docility, and obedience. Jason, as Red Hood, defies the meaning and memories of his past life as Robin, so I like the idea of him being a “black sheep” and defying those expectations of him as well. Argali sheep are known to have beautiful horns, are a species of wild sheep that live in mountains, and are also the largest of wild sheep.
Cass is a black footed cat because I feel like she’s very feline in demeanor, and black footed cats are one of the best hunters in the animal kingdom, with an over 60% chance of having a successful kill. (I think African wild dogs are the highest with 75-85%. It’s hard in the animal kingdom.) I also think it’s very cute of her to be so small but so deadly.
Tim is a red fox because of his cleverness and smarts. Red foxes are common in America and are usually hunted because people thought that foxes killed their livestock and dug up corpses. Tim is either really loved or really hated, so I feel like a red fox both symbolizes his irl status and his intelligence in the comics.
Stephanie is a dingo for no particular reason. However, they are social creatures and loved due to the fact that they have a history with humans. They’re golden colored and Stephanie gave off the vibes of an Australian, I literally cannot explain myself.
Duke is a lion for the same reasons: none in particular. However, lions are noble and considered very powerful. In my drawing of him, he is still a young adult, so his mane isn’t fully grown yet :3 he is 100% a normal lion tho!
Damian is a domestic cat for a few reasons. He is meant to be cute while the others are considerably scarier. There would also be a sense of irony bc I imagine that Talia is a big cat like a tiger or panther. However, cats are known as good hunters for a reason, and they have good instincts and can be just as loyal as dogs. As such, I think that he would be a regular kitty :3 other choices included him being a leopard cub, but it would be more funny if he was so small while everyone else is so big.
+ Something something, the two people who have had their deaths impact them the most and are often considered their parents’ greatest failures are prey animals that are usually hunted for sport….
+ Other small relationships between animal forms: the assassins are small cat forms. Dan being an animal not from the Americas, which also symbolizes him being out of place in the timeline. The Phantom family are purposefully made very different but also connected, examples being: a predator, a prey, a flying animal, and a cold blooded animal, etc. The Batfam being more random/less connected than the Phantom family due to their different backgrounds/lack of blood relation.
+ Their animal forms are also hint at the couples that I like, which is most obvious with Jason and Jazz lmaoooo. However, it is also a little noticeable in Tim and Dani (bird and fox), and definitely a little more obvious in Dan and Dick (snake and bird; please refer to my first piece of work with them tee hee). Danny’s is vague because I’m a multi-shipper with him, so he’s prey while most of everyone else are predator animals 💀
+ There are a few ideas in this (not counting the Pet AU): 1) Danny, Jazz, Dan, and Dani become companions and helpers to the Batfam, able to transform when necessary but also like spending time in their animal forms. In exchange, the Batfam help them with whatever problems they have and also give them sanctuary, 2) A regular animal-characteristics AU where everyone (or most of everyone, if humans exist) are some sort of animal hybrid creatures in the regular modern world, 3) The same as idea 2 but more Warrior Cats-esque where they’re way more animalistic, form packs, and live in less urban settings.
+ Yes, in his more humanoid form, Dan would have his legs replaced with a snake’s tail. I can’t decide between Dick and Dani having wings attached to their backs, or them having wings that connect to their arms.
+ Extras: Sam is a thoroughbred horse, Tucker is an American alligator, Valerie is a wolverine, and Wes is a swan. Bruce is a giant golden crowned flying fox, Alfred is an emperor penguin, and Barbara is a pony (but tbh, I’m open to suggestions).
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ariadnethedragon · 10 months ago
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THEO JAMES as EDWARD HORNIMAN, DUKE OF HALSTEAD
THE GENTLEMEN (2024-)
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pinklotushere · 3 months ago
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Ok so dpxdc al ghul twins au
So I've always seen the al ghul twins with danny coming back to gotham to live with his dad and family, but what if it's not danny that comes?
It's dani
So imagine danny being so busy with king duties that he can't honestly be bothered but the bats already know so he can't just continue to ignore it
Imagine dani saying she'll go instead
Imagine the batfam expecting a damian 2.0 and instead getting this girl who frankly looks like his clone (ha!)
Imagine dani gaslighting damian into thinking she's always been a girl
Imagine the batfam trying to bond with this chaotic little girl who can and has pulled some frankly deadly pranks
Imagine dani and steph, no more explanation needed
Imagine dani steph babs and cass having girls nights
Imagine Bruce trying to bond with dani, and dani suggesting more and more outrageous bonding ideas just to fuck with him
Imagine duke seeing the aura around her and going "not my circus, not my monkeys"
Imagine tim and dani and bullying damian (affectionately-most of the time-)
Imagine dick and dani and the uncontrollable urges to octopus hug
Imagine dani and jason and the joker
It would be glorious
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i think we need a second to appreciate daniel's little notes on louis' "household help"
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'three cars for little ol' me?' you are a grown ass man
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nepentheseeker · 3 months ago
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"Together we are Lookism" Ahh picture
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Source: PTJ instagram - ptj.comics
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ltmirr · 7 months ago
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Danai ☀️
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So Danny is older, and lives in Gotham as a mechanic (he could be a We mechanic, a JLA mechanic, whatever) and eventually, he starts dating Bruce Wayne.
Now, Danny knows the Wayne at the bats, it’s kinda hard to hide your vigilantism from a former vigilante. But Danny doesn’t mention it, he knows the dangerous of telling your loved ones.
Jazz is alive and a therapist is Coast City (Jazz x Hal? Could that work? Idk too much about the green lanterns). Dan is undercover to investigate pools of corrupted ectoplasm that’s guarded by an assassin cult, and Dani is still traveling the world, not for pleasure, but for the Realms.
Dani doesn’t age. It’s a side effect of being a clone. She destabilized one to many times and now her ghost half won’t let her age so she won’t die.
Dani can’t exactly settle down in a city likes the others. She looks 12. And while her siblings would take care of her in a heartbeat, she needs to fill her obsession of history and adventure.
So, she starts hunting for old artifacts, especially the magic ones. It’s a great way to learn about history and get a sense of adventure.
She’s been doing this for a couple years, building a name for herself and she gotten very good. (Keep in mind she only looks 12, but she’s actually like 33 mentally and intellectually)
Eventually, she crosses paths with a bat while searching for an artifact. (Even better if its Duke. We need more Duke. Probably won’t work with Cass, we’ll use Duke for the prompt, but can be switched out)
Obviously, Duke is kinda confused as to why a 12 yo is going after a dangerous magic artifact in the middle of but-fuck nowhere and offers to take her to Gotham and drops her off there after taking the artifact.
Dani knows better, she was going to refuse, but the realized she could take this as a free ride. So she agrees.
The reach Gotham and go their separate ways, and Duke goes home immediately, didn’t even take the time to tell anyone about the girl. but when Duke is at home hanging with their civilian stepdad, Danny gets a call and says he’s inviting his younger sister over
Bruce: Jazz? Jazz is older that you
Danny: nope! I have another sister!
Everyone: ???
Bruce: how comes we never meet her?
Danny: you have! She was at the wedding! But you’ll see her again don’t worry! She doesn’t visit often so I’m excited!
They arrives, the bat opens the door and Dani walks in.
Danny: Dani!!
Dani: Danny!!
So people are confused, Duke is like omg my aunt is an artifact hunter?? while everyone else is like omg my aunt is younger than me??
Eventually, Danny opens her backpack and goes:
Dani: so I was in *insert random place in the middle of butt-fuck nowhere* and found this! *pulls out artifact* I thought you would like so I brought it for you!
Danny: aww, thanks Dani, you shouldn’t have
Duke, who put that artifact in the cave for study: 👁️👄👁️
And Dani gives them a wink.
Duke isn’t going to take that lying down and attempts to find out Dani’s secrets while shes thwarting him at every turn.
Dani stays at the manor for a while, but nobody believe Duke when he tries warning them of Dani, because Duke didn’t tell anyone about the artifact
Things become even more alarming when Danny also start thwarting him, despite not know the family secret. (Danny thinks that Duke is onto the family secret.)
Cue crack, angst, fluff, whatever your heart desires.
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metis-iphigenia · 3 months ago
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my lab rats hyperfixation came back and i've been doing some thinking ever since
so from the start of the show there have been multiple references to comic book heroes especially dc references
(leo saying "my new dad is batman" in the first episode and douglas calling chase "boy wonder", referencing to robin)
well since mighty med ans lab rats take place in the same universe, mighty med characters are also comic book characters and dc is a comic book series, are they in the same universe?
no because imagine superman and tecton in the same room😭😭
or bruce with his "brucie" wayne personality being "friends" with donald davenport(they cant stand eachother)
donald davenport would 100% sell his inventions to lex luthor for a really pricy deal
or chase, bree, adam and leo going to same school with tim, bernard and darla lmao
i think adam would listen and add onto bernards theories(leo would call him delusional but also would be interested)
bernard made a theory about them being bionic but darla shut it down('i told you so' and 'aha i knew it!' were the first things he said when he found out about the truth)
darla would absolutely eat trent up i just know it
young justice and elite force team up with tim and bree/chase seeing eachother and going like the spiderman meme
damian and leo being friends(lethal duo warning!!)
also damian would've believed leo during the whole marcus fiasco
leo would push damian into reading comics and damian would push leo to read mangas(canon information)
talia and horace both know eachother from being in the same field(medical) they are the type of friends who say hi and talk like 4 hours when they run into eachother but then dont talk until the next time
bree would've loved exploring her girlhood with cass, steph, harper and babs(and darla) since she never got to
marcus, taylor, rose and jason would get along very well and love talking shit about their fathers🥰
i think daniel would love duke(they played video games together later on duke let daniel absorb his powers and tried to teach him how to control it exactly)
taylor, damian, leo is a trio i would die to see tbh i think they would get along well
cassandra and skylar teaming up with eachother would be absolutely amazing. i think they would work together so well
I HAVE MORE LATER I LOVE THIS CROSSOVER SM!!
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spacedace · 2 years ago
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Like I joke about it but making memes actually does weirdly help me figure stuff out as I’m writing lol Like, I have over 5k written for next chapter/chapter after that. Memes are powerful writing tools in my arsenal I swear lol
Anywhere here have more Uncle Oz AU (Penguin adopts Jazz & Danny) memes from my trying to figure stuff out about the story today:
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leonisandmurex · 2 months ago
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Favourite photo(s) of royal PDA ♡♡♡
Royal Autumn 2024 challenge
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honey-minded-hivemind · 8 months ago
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Ooooooo
I have come, with something!
So, imagine reader is a young adult instead of the teen. They already gone through the system, was never adopted, so they have a lot of resentment to parents and such. And they actually work in the school as an assistant teacher. The team thing happens and when reader realizes they were being used, they quit, and after, cut out anything showing they’re a mutant. Maybe filling the claws way down to look like normal nails, or if it’s like wolverine’s, they use a rock to break it.
How would everyone react to seeing reader after that, either fresh from their self mutilation, or some days after?
Thanks for reading my rant!
🌂
Oooooo... Okay, okay, that's interesting! I still plan to have Reader as a teen in the main au, but Reader as a young adult? Not bad, if I say so. I'm going to count this as an au of the Smilodon AU, because I have an idea for how Reader finding all of this out goes, but... I really like this ask. So good job! Let's do it-
If the others, the X-Men and Brotherhood, saw Reader like that... I think they'd feel nauseous. Light-headed. Sick. Because their... whatever Reader is to them, is missing parts of their mutation, the parts that were part of them. Their claws... they're filed down, hardly there anymore.. Their fangs... not near as long or sharp as they used to be. And the small bits of fur or fluff that used to dot their arms and legs... they're gone, leaving the skin underneath. This isn't what they wanted. They wanted Reader as their, well... okay, they had used Reader. They didn't want to, in the end, and the teens wanted to stop it, but- They just couldn't. They tried. The adults... they feel remorse. A bit scared. Because now they know Reader can and will harm themself (and likely had before). When Xavier looks deeper into Reader's thoughts, he sees their inner-self, and it isn't a monster or a beast or an evil person... it's a scared, lonely, hurt child, who wants love, but has been denied it so long that they don't trust anyone. And after what all they've done... Reader doesn't even trust them anymore...
Xavier, Scott, and Jean would try to speak rationally with Reader (their version of rational). It goes out the window real quick when Reader's thoughts turn darker, sadder, spiraling. Scott wants to know why Reader did what they did, because he's sorry, and wants them to know they care. He wants them to see it their way. But he mostly wants to make things better between them. Jean wants to help Reader, and comfort them, but now there's a literal mental wall between them, full of bitterness. She wants to reach them,, to stop them from doing this to themself... Xavier wants to convince Reader they meant no harm, and to give them and the X-Men a proper chance to make it up to them. He knows that Reader will be hard to convince. But they have to hold out hope. If worse came to worse... they can try and move Reader in with them, albeit unwillingly. It might be the only way to keep an eye on them and their health...
Kurt, Kitty, Ororo, and Beast regret getting Reader's hopes up, only for the truth to come out about why they started trying to befriend them in the first place. Seeing Reader remove parts of their mutation, leaving them almost defenseless... Kurt feels scared. He has a visible mutation as well, and while he hid his with the holo watch, Reader didn't have something like that. And they got rid of parts of themself! It's... it's so hard to look at... Kitty wants to hug Reader, wants forgiveness. She's so sorry about what happened, she wants them to know that! But... why would Reader hurt themself? Are they hiding any other wounds? What If they hurt themself again?... Storm is doing her best to stay calm and motherly, which sadly doesn't get her very far. She knows they've hurt Reader, and it doesn't feel good, for Reader or for them. But they need to own up to it. The best they can do is apologize, and hope Reader forgives them, or at least doesn't hurt themself further. Perhaps getting Hank to talk with them would be better... Hank would try and help them, would try to talk with Reader. He wants to provide therapy, or at least get them to have a medical exam. He needs to know how bad they hurt themself. But they're not budging. He doesn't want Charles to force Reader. No. But if they want to help them, they need them under their care. And sadly, Reader does not want to be under their care or protection after everything...
Rogue, Evan, and Logan feel guilty. They know they didn't trust Reader at first. That they didn't want to give them the benefit of the doubt. But seeing how bad it's hurt them, that they'd rather hurt themself than them... It's a tough pill to swallow. Reader already had trust issues. They already didn't have a high opinion of themself. And they just made those a whole lot worse. Rogue is truly sorry, wanting to have Reader stay with them so they don't hurt themself or disappear. She's scared that if they look away from them, they'll be gone. That Reader will leave, or worse, be dead. Evan wants to apologize, but he also wants Reader to give them a second chance. Even his aunt is in on it, and maybe Reader would believe two of them over just one? He really wants them to not give up on them... Logan knows he hasn't handled knowing Reader very well. He knew about some of their past, and wrote them off as a bad influence. And they weren't. They're the cub of his "brother" (he doesn't know if that fuzzy maniac is his brother or not), but they've never even met the guy, let alone know who he was. It wasn't fair of him to get mad with them, to treat them as a potential threat. Seeing them harm themself though... It makes him realize that they had every chance to go after all of them, but instead they turned on themself. And for that... he realizes he shouldn't have been been hard. So cold.
The Brotherhood teens want to throw up. Their favorite assistant teacher, the one who tended to see the best in them, is missing parts of themself, or has cut them down. And it scares the cr*p out of them. This is their favorite teacher! Their go-to adult in school when things go wrong or people won't leave them alone! And they've. Hurt. Themself. They didn't want to use them! They swear! But... they're not sure this is an easy fix. This isn't as simple as saying sorry. This had consequences, and they've (mostly) learned that one has to own up to them, no matter what they be. Lance doesn't want to imagine Reader leaving them. They're the one adult he trusts. And now they're scared, or at least wary, of all of them. The X-Teens are in the same boat, so while he hates to say it, he might have to work with them to get Reader to stay, and hopefully heal and regrow their claws and fangs and fuzz. Todd feels sick. He didn't realize they could do that. They could actually remove parts of their mutation? Just like that? Thinking about it gives him shivers. Who would give their powers up? Who'd willingly hurt themself? He understands why they'd do it, he just wishes they hadn't. Fred wants to hug Reader and cry. His favorite adult (who's only a few years older than all of them) just hurt themself. And is upset with them. And is sad. He doesn't want them to be upset! Or hurt! He's trying to apologize, and is on the same boat as Lance to get the X-Teens help in apologizing, if it means Reader might forgive them. Pietro knows what they did. He knows it was wrong. Is he sorry?... Yes. But he still wants Reader with them. Seeing them they way they are... he still thinks they should be with them, even more now. They need help. His dad can get help, okay? H*ck, if they have to, they can pull Sabretooth in, okay?! He just... he doesn't want Reader to hurt themself even more. They're nice, and pay attention to him and his sister, good attention. How can they let them hurt? Wanda is asking Reader why they did it. She wants to know Reader's perspective on this, on why they did it, how they feel about them all. She doesn't want to hurt them, and she won't, but Reader needs help. She will not have her favorite adult die on her or hurt themself, so they'd better hurry up and go to her father or Xavier and get them involved, otherwise, they're going to have a problem. Mystique feels for Reader. Being distrusted by everyone. Having mutations that single them out. It hurts. It hurts her even more knowing she has hurt Reader with her actions. But this proves to her Reader needs a team. A group. She's grateful Reader hasn't taken their anger or hurt out on them, like their father might have. She knows they deserve it. But... she isn't sure if they should turn to... the X-Men... blegh... or to Magneto... who she's mad with... And unfortunately, those are her two options. The joys of being an adult, being responsible... Hopefully they can reach Reader before it could be too late...
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