#Catra discourse

[catrasredemption]

Serious question - do people actually hate Catradora?

Like. Their hate is so comical sometimes that it feels unreal. "Catra was an abusive child at six years old! She attacked poor innocent Octavia who's never done anything wrong in her life obviously!" That can not be a real criticism. It's one thing to say she was abusive toward Adora (i.e. the scratch in the flashback of Corridors, which is also a stupid example), but to say she was abusive to a grown-ass adult who was close enough for Catra's tiny arms to reach her eye in the first place? Give me a god damn break.

Or apparently Catra is selfish for asking Adora not to die at the end of the show? She was being manipulative and guilt tripping Adora into not sacrificing her life to save the world? Are you kidding me?

May I propose - you don't actually hate Catradora, you just hate seeing other people enjoy it, so you go through the show and find the most unforgiving reading of a scene then use it to spin a narrative so you can rain on everyone's parade because they're enjoying something you don't enjoy and therefore they're wrong.

[pan-catra]

one thing that this spop rewatch is really opening my eyes on is how hypocritical the Catra redemption discourse was back when the show was still airing. i could make a compilation of all the times Scorpia tries to murder someone in the Rebellion or Entrapta disregards basic morals to uphold her partnership with the Horde and yet they get passes in regards to their redemption while people complain about Catra not “deserving it”. and like, it’s literally only because Scorpia and Entrapta are nicer than Catra. if Catra wasn’t a huge bitch no one would be saying her redemption was rushed or undeserved. people care far more about personality than they do about actions.

[carto0ncritter]

I'm sorry but I genuinely can't understand how people can look at Stolitz and Catradora and think these ships are healthy in any way, shape or form.

Stolas r*ped Blitzø. No, consent given in a life-or-death situation doesn't count

Stolas is racist towards imps, and this didn't change even when he "fell in love" with Blitzø

Stolas doesn't appreciate or respect Moxxie and Millie in the slightest (and was disappointed that his "Prince Charming" wasn't the one to rescue him)

He looks down on Blitzø and calls him things like "impish little plaything" and "his big dicked Blitzy" and doesn't stop treating him like shit even when Blitzø says loud and clear that he hates being talked down on like this (DUH)

The only thing Stolas knows about Blitzø is that he hates books and the only thing Blitzø knows about Stolas is that he's a boring bookworm. Keep in mind, the two figured this out about each other while they were kids, 25 YEARS AGO, after Blitzø was bought so that he could be Stolas' "friend" for ONE DAY

Stolas doesn't love Blitzø for Blitzø. Stolas loves the *idea* of Blitzø. The bird man wants to live a romance that is just like the romances in his cheesy novels. He wants to ride into the sunset with his one true love. He wants grand romantic gestures. He wants his "Prince Charming". Except, Blitzø isn't the type of guy for such sappy displays of affection, he never was. Especially combined with his trauma. And as soon as that other imp guy asked him to dance, Stolas not only accepted the offer, but Blitzø was no longer on his mind. And no, I don't think being drunk is proof that Stolas didn't mean what he had told Blitzø. Drunk people find it easier to say what's really on their mind after all

Blitzø fell in love with his abuser. This makes sense, actually. The guy always pushed everyone away and never got to experience true love, and now that he has the chance to be "wanted," even if the "relationship" is toxic, he finds it hard to let it go

As for Catradora, the things I wanna say about this ship have already been said throughout the years, but it all boils down to these things:

Catra mentally, emotionally and physically abused Adora

Catra had no problem ending the whole entire universe if it meant she'd finally be better than Adora

Catra was a war criminal and a fascist

Catra was responsible for what happened to Glimmer's mom and never apologized, let alone faced consequences

Their relationship was toxic even when they were kids

They were both raised by Shadow Weaver and were the only ones in the Horde who saw her as a mother figure, thus making the ship straight up incest, with even the official source material calling them sisters (adoptive siblings ARE REAL SIBLINGS!!!)

Catra got exactly what she wanted in the end (the girl she's always been obsessed with and dependent on) and, once again, faced 0 consequences for her actions

The show (and C//A stans) fetishizes abuse. As a SA survivor, I felt physically sick during the final episode, where the abuser ends up with her victim/sister and they kiss

In short, these ships are disgusting and the lgbt community deserves better representation

[66kenobi66]

Adora if she still had scars (By: @/bravestshera)

Broke my heart :(

This one especially gave me chills

[spopsalt]

What show's title is vs how it actually is

What the show's title is: She-Ra and The Princesses of Power

What the show actually is: Watch Adora get abused by Cata for 5 seasons straight then date her abuser, also FEEL BAD FOR CATRA

What the show's title is: Helluva Boss

What the show actually is: Watch a gay soap opera while the abuser gets victimized and while the victim gets demonized. Watch the victim form a trauma bond with his abuser. ALSO DON'T YOU FEEL SO BAD FOR STOLAS DONT YOU WANT HIM AND BLITZO TO DATE!?

What the show's title is: Hazbin Hotel

What the show actually is: Watch who is supposed to be the female main character get pushed to the side because men. Get introduced to a whole Lotta plotholes and rushed story telling as we stuff the plot into the last 2 episodes! Enjoy the boring/rushed/toxic romances as well!

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

ambrosius: internally freaking out at the fact that he accidentally chopped off his lover's arm, never intentionally hurts ballister, only turns against nimona because he wants to protect ballister

catra: takes every opportunity to consciously and intentionally torment adora as much as possible in all existent ways, shows no hint of remorse for any of her actions and continues repeating them till the end

fans: omg y'all only hate c//a bc you're lesbophobic, goldenheart is the EXACT same ship but you like them bc they're men

[cookie-nom-nom]

I wasn’t going to say anything but the take was dismal so:

“””the she ra reboot is oversexualized, it’s wrong to sexualize and homoeroticize teenagers. They should have been adults in the show”””

-the reboot is oversexualizing teenagers

Hilarious given the right wing melt down over it too being woke and ugly for *checks notes* giving She Ra shorts to wear, having muscles, and not massive boobs. Did we seriously forget the entire controversy about them not being sexy enough. Y’all. They were seething and whining.

We can have a conversation about sexualizing teenagers! That is a problem that exists, and there’s a tricky nuance to enforcing beauty standards on teens, fetishizing youth in a predatory way, and acknowledging that teens may want to explore their own sexuality and its healthy to do so. Just, I’m not convinced sexualization is happening in SPOP but sure, later outfit designs do start to show more skin. When they’re literally growing up because hey, the show covers a few years and the main cast is in the 20-21 range by the end. And even then like

If that’s the epitome of sexualization you might be a puritan.

-It is wrong to homoeroticize teenagers

Loud incorrect buzzer sound! Rumor has it teenagers can and will be gay! If your problem is with shipping fictional teenagers, say that. I can’t imagine anyone who has ever been in a fandom will agree, but at least it wouldn’t be homophobic.

-The show should have been about adults.

It’s. It’s literally about child soldiers. That’s literally what the show is about. Would it be the same if Catra was an adult? No, because her story is about an abused and traumatized teenager desperate to have enough power she can’t be hurt anymore. She is young and inexperienced and rebelling and making horrible, selfish choices and it’s so deeply tied into her age because she’s just now growing up enough to be strong and clever enough to flip the tables. Would it be the same if Adora was an adult? No, because her story is about the horror of a teenager being turned into an idol, into a weapon of war. We literally watch how that shapes her as she steps into adulthood. Would it be the same if Glimmer was an adult? No, because her arc is going from a rebellious teenager demanding to be taken seriously and have more control, to her struggling when she gets shoved into adulthood and queenhood far too young as she looses her only present parent.

No, the story about teen soldiers crumpling under the war they’ve grown up in would not be better if it was about adults, because it would HAVE to be a different story with different themes. If you want to say they shouldn’t have been hot while doing so, fine whatever, but eviscerating the core premise in order to ‘fix’ it is a disservice to the story.

[antispopausandstuff]

are we gonna talk more about how Catra literally disabled someone, Octavia, because she thought she was ugly?

and then did almost the exact same thing to Adora?

and then never apologized for either of those events, not even when she was older?

and that the show made light of Octavia being disabled because a child had a problem with her just breathing by making it a joke?

and that Catra, even as an adult, never actually seeming to understand the weight of her strength // ability, because she didn't seem to give that much of a fuck about physically scarring Adora, even in her redemption?

oh, i guess we can ignore that last bit since Nate just magically made all those scars ✨disappear.✨

[catras-breakup-song]

yeah sure, i'll tell you something that repeatedly pisses me off to no end:

images shamelessly stolen from here

when catra haters say this type of dialogue is a good example of her "abuse"

it's lighthearted affection, playful bantering! many friends bully each other this way all the time for the laughs; i know i always have and nobody minded!

some people may not like it, and that's fine, you don't have to! but your opinion does not change how the characters canonically feel about it. if adora happily takes it without strife and understands the intention in the moment, then there is no issue. you could argue that she calls herself an idiot the episode after she rescues catra from prime's ship, but i genuinely believe that's just a result of her being too harsh toward herself all the time anyway without any influence from catra. even when she didn't have to worry about her as an enemy throughout her average days in bright moon, she still kept that weight burdened on her shoulders regardless.

such an example of the criticism i'm referring to is someone complaining in this reddit post, albeit not necessarily from an anti since they seem to simply not understand and therefore disapprove based on their own personal feelings about the situation among the replies. there's also this comment, which adds some objective truth to catra's partial-insult.

as another individual pointed out, throughout the first seasons it came from more of a "duh! how do you not get it?" condescending attitude (think of adora's final revelation in 01x02 that the horde was evil while catra had known her whole life, and later on in 03x03 when catra points out how silly it sounds to admit you'd listen blindly to anything an old hologram has to say ─ even if it did happen to be correct), but i also added that when it comes to season five it originates more from a place of concern, hence upholding her half of the promise for the two of them to look out for each other at all times. if adora lacks so much awareness, she'll constantly end up in dangerous situations, and that's exactly what eventually ended up happening when she followed shadow weaver's manipulated guidance to accept the failsafe.

it drains so much energy from me to give this bad-faith argument any attention so hopefully i'll only have to do it this once. it's not worth getting frustrated over so don't waste your time trying to convince reactionaries that this trait of all things is what makes her such a terrible person.

[anti-catradora-collection]

just leaving this here.

[carto0ncritter]

People are so desperate for LGBT representation, (specifically gay and lesbian couples), that they're willing to accept literally any homosexual ship regardless of the concerning elements.

Let's see, we have ass ships like

1)Stolitz - Stolas is an abuser, a r*pist, a racist man who has so many powers yet is emotionally fragile, passive and wimpy, a man who victimizes himself over and over, a man who emotionally neglects the child who desperately needs him for his sexual fantasies with his victim, a man who is the creator's pet, a man whose actions aren't wrong according to the writers, a man who can just blame everyone else around him but himself with no consequences

2) Catradora - Catra is an abuser too, but was treated like a cute kitty cat in s5 despite having done atrocious things, she was instantly forgiven with no consequences, and she ended up dating her sister and the biggest victim of her abuse

3) Huskerdust - I haven't talked about this one so far, but Angel sexually harassed Husk and never apologized, Husk himself sang "Loser, Baby" and as a SA survivor I felt like he was trying to say this to Angel: "Oh, you've hit rock bottom because of SA? It's your fault lol, accept that you're a whiny bitch and a loser even tho the problem is extremely serious and out of your control and just suck it up, I'm a loser too despite not going through the same thing you have, you're not alone in being a loser BUT YOU ARE STILL A LOSER BABYYY A LOOOSER" Like, ik the message was supposed to be how we're not alone in our struggles and how there's always someone who will understand and make us feel less alone, but the way this was handled rubbed me the wrong way. Also, I'm not sure whether or not to mention this as well (screw it, I will), but Husk is described as "the old bartender," his voice sounds like it belongs to an old dude too, and he apparently died when he was like, 70, while Angel died in his 30's. I'm not gonna calculate their ages based on how it works in Hell because personally I feel like it doesn't matter. What matters is how old they were when they were alive. But however you decide to look at their ages, it's not just the implied enormous age gap that bothers me, no... it's more so the difference in maturity between Husk and Angel. Husk is described as a dude who has seen and experienced a lot of stuff. On the other hand, Angel is clearly immature and there is this weird... emotional imbalance between them? It's like a mentor dating his apprentice, at least that's how I see it. I'm not saying dating someone who's 40 years older than you is morally wrong (if you're both adults) but IT IS WEIRD imo, especially since Angel & Husk are not on the same page when it comes to life experience and maturity. Oh yeah, I also don't think Angel should be in any kind of romantic relationship... for his own good

[ratwithdrag0nwings]

Please don't attack this person.

Can C//A stop insulting Glimdora? Please???

[66kenobi66]

So, I got scratched by my cat a few days ago and even though it was just a small swipe, it still hurt like hell.

My cat didn't even want to hurt me that bad, she just wanted me to stop petting her.

What's my point?

If a small scratch my cat gave me days ago still stings like crazy even when I simply wash my hands.

Imagine how much this hurt...

[spopsalt]

Pffft what are you guys talking about? Catra and Adora never got together at the end of spop. Catra apologized to Adora and Adora didn't forgive her and Catra decided to go back to the Crimson Wastes. You guys are insane.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

stans when aang and steven don’t kill the genocidal war criminals they’re fighting against: omg they’re so incompetent! these shows are telling us to side with the villains!! i hate these literal kids who made the best choice they could make under difficult circumstances 😡🤢

stans when adora not only spares a genocidal war criminal but also starts dating them: love wins! spop is such a beautiful story of acceptance and forgiveness. everyone deserves a second chance, even someone who willingly tried to end all space and time <3

[tippenfunkaport]

Sometimes I like to imagine the anti accounts come close to a moment of clarity in the dead of night before diving back down into the muck of their own nonsense.