#Bg3 Evil Path

[lesfir]

From "Triumph of Evil" analysis, I would like to pay attention to the final part.

BG3 Epilogue. Original God Gale. Lord Astarion.

Astarion: You can't be serious. You miss being weak? Falling ill? Ageing? devnote. NodeContext: Slight stress on 'aging' Astarion: We can be honest with each other, Gale - one immortal being to another: this is great. devnote. NodeContext: "this is great" as if confiding a secret.

"That's great" - developer: "as if confiding a secret". If AA here is unhappy inside and not honest with himself, then the developer about the "Confiding a secret" can't lie. It can be twisted that it's just for acting, whispered, for voice expression. I dont think so. Honest with each other -> that's great -> developer: as if confiding a secret.

A Secret is a truthful thing inside a person, if it is confiding all the more.

The ghost of grief, guilt and lost happiness in AAstarion's eyes in animation at 00.1 seconds and kinda stuff breaks down, of course, not just on this kind of note. But it became a special moment for me.

About the notes and context of the author Astarion, Stephen Rooney says this: When we're writing the lines there was little contexts and kind of places you could enter context so I could say just a little bit of anger on this line, little bit sadness, this is what you’re thinking about. It’s kind of like passing notes in class. (Interview: Stephen Rooney | Idle Insights | Idle Champions | D&D. 24:44 The question starts at 23:06) Next. Entering Good Ending territory. Disclaimer: I am very not close to the idea of this path, so it's partly a criticism, I guess. If power, hedonism and decadence that feel great to be with - look like chains when it's all gone. When there's no way to get the throne, you tell yourself you'd cut yourself on it and bring bad things - that's my personal interpretation. The kind of "chains" Astarion would have gotten 200 years ago, perfect Kusarigama for anyone who wants to make him a slave. It's a sad fact that adds a complex moral. This path that has been stained with blood and evil, not everyone is willing to go, it's not always necessary, it's fine without it too and be happy - but if you reach it, as it turns out, someone don't cut yourself, and feel great.

Like a quite corrupt person, a narcissist. who is Astarion

I kind of don't call myself the "make him worse" team, he's already awful enough from the start, I don't even have to try, I just agree. Maybe what makes him worse now is the final belief in an evil worldview, he was already expressing agreement at evil answers so... point in an evil fairy tale well sort of.

This dark line of development can be seen from a whole analysis. This volcano of dark desires Astarion was always on the horizon.

Don't care about others, the world, or the consequences. Do whatever you want without holding back with full protection and autonomy, even if horrible things or good things, whatever pleases you - your personality and your choice. Literally evil success. When I talk about "evil" in regards to Astarion, I always mean an attractive and complex evil that is very important to him as a character, as a whole. And since Astarion's evil flourishes in the Evil Ending, all the more so in this one. Here about it.

[lunian]

Gale: *practices shadow magic*

Lae'zel and Shadowheart: wtf

Astarion: TWIRLING HAIR GIGGLING KICKING FEET

[outlanderalien]

Devastated this can't be real. Here's my dream dark-urge team if I could recruit any NPC.

And of course my Dark-Urge:

[ineed-to-sleep]

ENDING SPOILERS FOR BG3 AHEAD

Hate that I found this scene kinda hot

[trappedinafantasy37]

Your chest is heavy with breath as the battle rages all around you. You take your mace and bash through every enemy that dares get in your way. They stand to threaten everything that is important to you. You cannot let them succeed, you cannot let them get away with it, you cannot let a single one of them live for they are wrong. They are a stain, a plague that needs to be eradicated.

You push further into their sanctuary, destroying anyone and anything that you can find. You do not hold back and you show no restraint and no mercy. You laugh at their measly and pathetic attempts to fight back. They stand no chance against you and your might. Do they not recognize how much better you are than them? They fail to see what such abhorrent trash they are, and you are here to make a demonstration.

It took a lot of energy and there were a few close calls. But all those who would have stood against you lie cold on the ground. You take a deep breath, appreciating the sweet and metallic smell of blood. You won, they did not. You walk around, inspecting the corpses, looting all you can find for the spoils are now yours to take.

You wander into an isolated corner to a body whose arm leans over a ledge. This corpse piques your curiosity as it is a fish out of water. It doesn't belong up here. How did this one get wrapped up in something so vile? But, then again, maybe that's just her base instincts as murder and carnage are all that drow are known for. And look at her now. Dead, cold and alone, left to be remembered by no one. Her hand reaches down over the ledge to a home she can never return to. You loot her corpse of everything, being sure to leave her naked and bare so you can belittle and humiliate her even in death. Because that's what good and honorable people do! It's what she deserves anyway. Someone as evil, and vile, and horrible as her doesn't deserve respect, not even in death.

Her blood, along with who knows how many goblins, soak through the skin of your hands and drips off your mace. Gore, bone, and brain matter decorate the metal plate of your armor and tangle in your hair. Corpse after corpse is left in your wake. The decorative stone of the temple once held sacred now runs with the river of blood you spilled.

How many lie dead thanks to you and your allies? You have killed far more in this goblin camp than that drow ever would have if she found the grove. Goblins, bugbears, ogres, a drow, a hobgoblin, a few lost humans, and even children, all dead by your order. And they all deserved it a thousand fold because they are all wrong, and evil, and your world has no place for them. It does not matter if they ever actually would have been a threat to the grove. No, their mere existence in proximity to good people is threat enough. And you are a good person and you only do good things. And that is exactly what you did by killing them all.

You return home to celebrate and inform the tieflings of the good news. You talk, you laugh, you dance, you sing, you drink, you fuck. You did a good thing today. A heroic thing. You committed a massacre, a genocide. But that's acceptable because you are a good person and you only do good things. They would have otherwise done it to you. But, they are wrong as they did not have a good reason, at least not one that you could find. You did, and thus this massacre, and only your massacre, is justified.

And you continue on your journey. You learn more about this Absolute and the nature of these 'True Souls'. You think back to the fight at that goblin camp and the three True Souls you killed. They were just brainwashed, forced against their will to commit horrendous atrocities. Atrocities that you might have been forced to do yourself had you not been so lucky. You shake your head, removing all semblance of doubt and sympathy. The reality does not change a thing. They were an active threat and they deserved to die and be denied chance at redemption. As far as you are concerned, drow and goblins are just born evil and should be killed on sight. None of them deserved to live. You had to punish them for what they might do, rather than what they actually do. True Soul or not, that drow would have been a threat to you and anyone who breathes. Even if you knew before hand the full scope of her situation, you would have made the same choice because she is evil, and you are not because you only make the good choices.

You slaughter and kill your way to Baldur's Gate, leaving behind bloody footprints with every step you take. You have paved a path of corpses in the name of this crusade. You have killed, lied, stolen, manipulated, cheated, and exploited all to claim your victory and force your principles onto the world because you are good and the only one who is correct and knows what's best, and thus your actions are good. You intend well. You want to save the world and help people. You want to snuff out all evil. And sometimes being good means killing.

But, in the end, you always end up doing all the same things that the bad guys would do, making all the same actions that lead to the same outcome. And that outcome often is death and carnage. The only thing that separates you from them is your intentions and your perception of those intentions. And all those who disagree will die by your hand because your morality will not be questioned, as those who question you must be evil because you are good.

You stand atop a mountain of corpses, happy and proud of your deeds because you did the right thing. The smell of rot and decay spirals around you as you stand amongst the dead, erecting yourself as a pillar of honor and integrity. There is a growing list of names that have been permanently removed from the world by your hand, amongst them is a genocidal lunatic, a lunatic who never would have killed as many people as you have.

You are a good person. A hero. And yet, your hands are just as bloody as all those you killed, those you claim to be evil.

[one-in-a-nillion]

once more i bring you another bg3 playthrough character. She is old. She is Evil. and I have reloaded so many of her saves to not romance astarion, cause i love him. but no. for once I HAVE to hold someone else (Shadowheart) (she's my silly evil route not durge, normal ass evil, draconic sorcerer)

[whats-your-initiative]

You know I find it a bit odd when people complain about evil choices in RPGs feeling unsatisfying. Destruction is an inherent part of evil so of course there will be less content for you to interact with, evil does not create it can only corrupt and destroy. Would you be satisfied if you couldn't kill with impunity? Because the natural consequence of such an action is to be left with nothing to rule over but ashes.

[whisperofthewaves]

I want to play that game so bad

I want to be Normal Tav, and then I want to be Desperately Trying To Be Good Dark Urge, and then I want to be BAD Dark Urge, and then I think I want to be Evil Shadowheart bc holy shit.

[tuxedo-rabbit]

You know, one of the most interesting thing about BG3 to me is that all the different choices and RP moments you can make mean that it's very easy to have a multitude of playthroughs that don't neatly fall into the boxes of "good" or "evil" runs.

The other interesting thing is that whenever Larian talks about their game, it feels like this was a complete accident.

[hell-dusk]

it’s a baby

[lesfir]

The charming Dark Side

In the supplement to "Triumph of Evil", I'd like to take the time to the issue - which evil? Astarion, as well as Lord Astarion evil\dark side is complex.

Unattractive evil absolutely breaks Astarion as a character, in the Evil Ascension Ending too, he needs to remain attractive and complex. It's his core, as an Ascended Astarion too, is himself - Astarion, and one of his integral paths as an Astarion character. I need a certain baseline for statements like that, too.

Evil is not cardboard. except for tales cartoons, teaching the virtues Evil is complex. "Has some little good in it" where I'm greedy and want more Is a great line of reasoning in Astarion's story.

Astarion is an fun character for the theme of evil and good. Astarion's own reasoning is extremely materialistic, selfish, and an "evil" picture of the world. Which however in Faerun has its own meaning. It also stays in balance. Astarion is more likely to act as an unsuspecting actor of a global idea that contains complex moral themes than to say such things himself. For example, we might find thoughts that rise above the story in the words of the archetype character "the wise man", Wise Old Turtle -like. Astarion either does not do this arbitrarily or he mocks morality, uses it to accomplish a goal. Or he can't find the words:

CinematicNodeContext: Can't quite find the words to convey "even evil people can be a little bit good" so just mimes weighing scales with his hands NodeContext: "And even good or evil people can be a little bit complicated."

In my opinion this idea from act 2 already overlaps with the ending. Evil power as a tool, evil man, even a little bit of good and something complicated. It also generally intersects with Astarion's story.

Complex Evil has its own morality, motivations, reasons and sense, depending on the context of the story. But it remains "evil" for some reason. Here we are already getting to a debatable, personal topic and who understands evil and gray morality in what way. To me, grayness is different from evil: Realizing it's immoral and still willing to do it. The lack of regret\guilt. The desire to continue. The inner satisfaction, fun of doing evil or all together. Hello Astarion very much hello, Lord Astarion Maybe in the very topic being reasoned over, the story will be something gray, yet the character will be evil within the story. We can add here DnD - in which greed and selfishness are classed as evil. Greed is one of the "deadliest human sins", as well as pride, speaking of other structures of the definition of "evil".

This point of the complexity of dark themes in Astarion's character, was mentioned by Astarion author Stephen Rooney. Stephen Rooney | Idle Insights | Idle Champions | D&D 18:32

Lauren: What was like one or two of the core things that were the most important about his character that needed to be represented? When you were helping us bring your baby into our game what were like the couple things you're like - he has to have this in order to still be him.

Stephen Rooney: When you meet Astarion the first thing that he does in the game is pull a knife on you. He has a certain appreciation for violence I guess, a bit of a murdery streak so… I think it's important to have that… and also… he's a vampire, he's all about blood and he's all about darker sides of humanity. So it's important that that's that's represented in the game. But the same time he’s really fun to write, to have in your party. And it was it's very important for me that that is also represented those kind of the two sides. It's gonna stop you but we'll we'll have a smile on his face and see does it.

Lauren: The fun thing about that duality of like all right he's a vampire he's all about blood but also he's kind of this sarcastic fun character. I like that he is not your cliche brooding dark always kind of emo vampire like he's got in a weird way a lot of fun personality to him and like he's a rogue but he's dressed in like fancy clothes and very he's very charismatic and personable. Were you was that how you were you was that just how you crafted Astarion from a gameplay and character perspective or were you thinking of like let’s make sure he’s not Dracula let’s make sure he’s not super cliché vampires.

Stephen Rooney: (… about cliché vampires) The main thing with Astarion character I think was just trying to get a sense of fun into… He could… It would be very very easy to write a character that was very unlikable in Astarion and we absolutely didn't want to do that. He's a bit terrible consistently throughout the game, he's awful in a whole lot of ways. But at the same time he needs to be charming and he needs to be someone that you actually want to have around. Because you’re gonna be with this guy for hours and hours – it’s a long track through this game so… You gotta make sure he’s engaging, he’s fun. Lauren: He that nice line of like… He’s doing the terrible things but he’s so fun to be around and maybe he’s got a point about the terrible things he’s doing and, you know, maybe he's gonna sway the player over to his side of seeing things a little bit.

Stephen Rooney: Hopefully, I mean, that would be the gold standard if I hit that even most of the time, I’m extremely happy.

___

There are two sides to Astarion's character that are very important to have together - he is a bloodthirsty vampire, "he's all about the darker sides of humanity", and he is fun. It's easy to write Astarion as a very unlikable character, but that's something its author absolutely didn't want. Astarion needs to be charming, interesting, fun, yet keep two sides.

I mean that's why Lord Astarion - being the most dangerous on the meadow - is sulking that he wasn't the one throwing the party, arrogantly looking at the nails "wow they're still alive, good for them", throws away the goblet drinks wine from the bottle, and flies back and forth as tiny furry bat. Astarion's evil is seductive and alluring, instead of only black vacuum. It takes nuance and a lot of detail, balance, as well as the important thing - devilish charm and charisma. More like space viewed from a monitor, constellations and nebulae. If you truly get there, you'll freeze to death in a second, but it's very beautiful from afar. It's the kind of evil he has throughout story. Such evil stays with Astarion in Ascension, more openly and at the apogee. True, it's different for each individual. A friend of mine said: "why do you need that vampire bastard? I'm gonna kill him" хD Alluring of Astarion's evil and especially of Lord Astarion works very differently or doesn't work at all.

[lunian]

Karlach: WE HAVE TO END GORTASH, I HAVE TO DO IT MYSELF🔥🔥🔥

my Tav: YEAH !!! 💪

Wyll: Gortash is a scary person and we should save my father!

my Tav: Yes, we will!!

Gortash, later: *starts talking with Tav*

Tav, only in 2 mins:

Tav: r-ruling together you say? 👁👄👁👉👈

[zahra-hydris]

it's so refreshing to play rogue trader and get not only actual evil/bad paths but bad consequences for good/noble actions

[dracomeir]

So I finally got to act 3 in BG3 in my second playthrough of the game as the dark urge this time around, and I must've been way too fixated on karlach at the time to miss how good Gortash looked. This game is the first game that truly instilled pan panic within me. I wanna be with too many ppl, and why can't he be one of them >:c

[silver-horse]

I need help to avoid the most horrible ending of all...

Anyone know if there is a way to prevent the blonde hair? 🤮🤢🤮

[lenjaminmacbuttons]

reddit post aita for helping astarion with his ascension while also romancing wyll

like. he's the hero guy. he's the lawful good protector of the common folk out of the goodness of his heart Blade of Frontiers. and I just helped murder seven thousand people (SEVEN THOUSAND. SEVEN. THOUSAND. THAT IS A LOT OF PEOPLE. WHO ARE NOW SQUISHY BLOOD PILES.) and obviously he disapproves but also....? not very much???

I feel like I should probably break up with me over this and yet he hasn't o,.,o

aita for expecting my fiance to say being complicit in the gruesome slaughter of a literal city's worth of innocents is a deal breaker????