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[tuxedo-rabbit]

Yellowjackets (2021-). Misty Quigley: Amateur Sleuth as Nancy Drew novels.

@yellowjacketsnetwork event 07: tropes

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‘I absolve you of any bindings I have placed in the past. Go where you will.’

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Do I care to know what gaider says about DA? Not really. Do I feel vindicated knowing this was a thought while he wrote his books? ...a tad bit

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i miss them...

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I know that The Descent DLC was designed to be post game, aka after Solas left but holy fucking shit now there’s a really fucked up hilariously dark in game reason why Solas does not utter a god damn WORD of banter or commentary during that entire DLC.

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Dragon Age: the Veilguard Was Packed with Lore — But Many of Us Overlooked It

— PART ONE —

Welcome back, friends and travellers. If you've been here a while, you'll know that I wrote 30,000 words of predictions in the week and a half before DA:tV released. But here's the most surprising thing—I was right, for the most part.

I spent my first Veilguard playthrough grinning (and then sobbing) at all the lore reveals. And here's the thing: I think most of us missed a lot of them, including even me.

So let's begin with...

Titans: Dark and Light, Compassion and Rage, the Eternal Hymn and its Endless Listeners (1/2)

This is your warning: This post will contain spoilers for the entirety of Dragon Age: the Veilguard, and all Dragon Age content made before Veilguard.

Alright, pals. If you've been here a while, you know how this goes. I always start by listing what we're going to cover, like anyone who's never fully recovered from academia.

Today's Discussion:

What Veilguard (Re)Taught Us about the Titans

The Titans the first Shapers of the known world.

The Titans are beings of the Abyss.

The Titans are sleeping, dormant—but alive.

Dwarves are the Titans' children, created to tend them.

The Evanuris mined the Titans' bodies to create people.

The Titans—the Earth—fought back.

What Veilguard (Re)Taught Us about the Titans

The best thing about Dragon Age, as someone who loves the series to death, is that its worldbuilding is consistent, but also bears the unique quality that we, as players, are not aware of it all. Our protagonists in each game don't know everything; the people they learn from also don't know everything. We learn what we can through codices that are all biased and need an extra layer of decoding. This is a feature, not a bug.

It also means that we did not know how to understand the Titans before. Even my 30,000 words of theorycrafting, especially my piece all about the Titans, had elements of speculation. I had to check that speculation against other sources like the Chant of Light, which is a source that we REALLY did not know how to decode when it was revealed piece by piece in DAO, DA2, World of Thedas, and Inquisition.

Here, I'm going to break it all down, piece by piece.

The Titans were the first Shapers of the (known) world.

It is said in the Descent DLC that Titans are enormous beings whose singing shapes the world. Their existence predates much of Thedas, if not all of it. The Titans are called the first Shapers for this reason, and in Veilguard it is restated several times over that they did, indeed, shape the world—for instance, by Cole in Inquisition.

"Their ancient shapers were mountains drawn of all their wills, walking their memories into valleys of the world." —Cole dialogue.

Inquisition told us so much more about the Titans than just that, though. The Titans have a realm all their own, a counterpart to the Fade, mentioned over and again in the Chant of Light and referenced as a quest name in Inquisition.

Here lies the abyss: the well of all souls.

The Titans are beings of the Abyss.

Now, it's important that I mention right here that the Chant of Light has existed long before Inquisition. In fact, its tale is what opens DA:O as the game begins. Recently Eurogamer stated that BioWare has had a massive lore document for the 20+ years of its existence, and I believe that there is no truer example of this than in the Chant of Light itself.

The Abyss, for a long time, was a mystery to us. Inquisition cleared it up a lot—not only with its game content, but with World of Thedas' publication shortly thereafter.

Not only is the Abyss referred to in many elven codices, but we go there. The key locations of the Descent DLC—the Forgotten Caverns, Bastion of the Pure, and the Wellspring—are in a region called the Uncharted Abyss.

Now, with Harding, we go deeper into the Deep Roads than the average dweller. The same is true in that instance: venture down far enough, and we reach a Titan's heart.

We find a Titan's heart there. But the Titan does not wake—none have before DA:tV, and even then, they have not fully woken. Because, for as long as we have known...

The Titans are sleeping, dormant—but alive.

"It's singing. A they that's an it that's asleep, but still making music." — Cole dialogue.

There is so much Cole dialogue in Inquisition that speaks on the sleeping Titans, on their old songs that once sang the same, on how they will never wake up, that it would be folly to try and post every codex here. Suffice it to say: Cole knows of the Titans, knows of their songs, and knows they are asleep. He is one of the pathways to our knowledge of the Titans in Inquisition, and his words are peppered throughout the game.

The Chant of Light also makes reference to a mountainous Maker, who oft speaks about a forgotten mountain. When Andraste meets the Maker "in darkness unbroken," specifically, these words are used:

The Maker Appears to Andraste (7) Eyes sorrow-blinded, in darkness unbroken There 'pon the mountain, a voice answered my call. "Heart that is broken, beats still unceasing, An ocean of sorrow does nobody drown. — Andraste 1:7

Heart that is broken, beats still unceasing — a being who has been broken, but whose heart still beats. We can hear that, in the Descent DLC.

Veilguard confirms that both sources are true through Harding, her personal quest, and the codices for the Dwarven people.

Records that exist outside of Orzammar mention "great sleeping Titans" and "the First Ancestors." — Codex Entry: Harding's Notes: Orzammar and Titans

Harding's experiences in Veilguard, in this way, serve to prove Cole right. That is a deliberate narrative choice: BioWare's way of saying, Yes, this is true. Yes, you should take Cole's take on Titans as correct.

We also know, from Cole, that this state of being is permanent. Not only are the Titans asleep, but they don't know how to wake.

Songs screaming far away. It wants to wake up but can't remember how. No one should be here. — Cole dialogue.

This becomes crucial information in Veilguard, and central to the main plot. It serves as the backdrop for what actually matters most to the characters living in Thedas right now, which is...

Dwarves are the Titans' children, created to tend them.

By now, a lot of people have seen this reveal in the art book: the dwarves were created to tend to their Titan hosts/makers. But we knew this before—we just didn't know it in context, and therefore we did not believe it to be objectively true of Thedas.

In truth, we've known about the elves and the dwarves' origin since the Chant of Light came out in full with World of Thedas volume 2.

At last did the Maker From the living world Make men. Immutable, as the substance of the earth, With souls made of dream and idea, hope and fear, Endless possibilities. — Threnodies 5:5

I talk about it in more depth in my Chant of Light dissection, but what this verse says in context is that the dwarves (the Maker's second children) are beings crafted by the maker: bodies made of lyrium, souls made of the same "dream and idea, hope and fear" as the original spirits.

This concept has already been massively hinted toward with both Valta (who has become The Oracle in DA:tV) and Dagna, who both connect to isatunoll during Descent and Inquisition's base game, respectively.

We've known about the Evanuris' horrible crimes since before Inquisition, as well, for the same reason and from the same verses in the Chant of Light.

Until, at last, some of the firstborn said: "Our Father has abandoned us for these lesser things. We have power over heaven. Let us rule over earth as well And become greater gods than our Father." (8) The demons appeared to the children of earth in dreams And named themselves gods, demanding fealty. — Threnodies 5

With the context given to us by Trespasser and Veilguard, we know without a doubt that the Evanuris are those "jealous spirits" that comprise the Maker's first children.

And just like the Chant describes, they sought to conquer the earth: the realm of the Titans.

The Evanuris mined the Titans' bodies to create people.

Trespasser taught us so much of what we needed to know about the Evanuris' and Titans' conflicts. Its codices in the Deep Roads outline how it was Mythal, specifically, creating some of the first elves in the coffins found in that zone. The Temple of Solasan features coffins of the exact same kind.

Ir sa tel'nal Mythal las ma theneras Ir san'a emma Him solas evanuris Da'durgen'lin Banal malas elgara Bellanaris, bellanaris. — Codex: Torn Notebook in the Deep Roads, Section 3

My (updated) translation: Isatunoll Mythal gives you dreams Lyrium within Becomes Solas evanuris Little stone boy You give nothing to the Titan (anymore) Forever, forever.

Trespasser reveals that Mythal mined the bodies of slain titans and rendered their demesne unto the People: she conquered Titans and used their bodies for her own ends. The hints about these actions, however, are not exclusive to Trespasser, nor to Solasan. These seeds were planted all the way back at the Temple of Mythal.

Elgar'nan, Wrath and Thunder, Give us glory. Give us victory, over the Earth that shakes our cities. Strike the usurpers with your lightning. Burn the ground under your gaze. Bring Winged Death against those who throw down our work. Elgar'nan, help us tame the land.

This codex to Elgar'nan makes reference to Elgar'nan giving victory over the Earth (capital-E, the Titans). Trespasser would follow this up with much context—that it was Mythal who was first known to have slain Titans, "rendering their demesne unto the People."

I theorized that Mythal's mining of Titans for lyrium to make elvhen bodies was what angered the Titans, based on codices in Trespasser and the Temple of Solasan. (I go into much more depth there!) Veilguard confirms this theory in Solas' Memory #4: A Memory of Manifestation.

Solas: I have the Fade. Besides, this talk of taking on a solid form. When you took the glowing stone to build your body, did the earth not shake? Mythal: The lyrium gives us the strength we had when we were of the Fade. We are the best of physical and spirit.

Mythal's crime was what took the war with the Titans in a new, darker direction. It was what would set off the chain of events that would change the very nature of the world—and it was foreshadowed, back in Inquisition, by Cole.

The Titans—the Earth—fought back.

"They made bodies from the earth, and the earth was afraid. It fought back, but they made it forget." — Cole dialogue.

In this post, I theorized that it was Solas' creation itself that caused the first Titan to "go red." That is to say, to change its nature and fight back. I used codices from Trespasser and Solasan to get there, as well as one paragraph from World of Thedas and this codex on Fen'Harel that describe the Forgotten Ones as "beings of terror, malice, spite, and pestilence."

Thinking about those words, and specifically terror, I read the codex in the secret Deep Roads room in Trespasser with fresh perspective.

For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire. The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy. A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic. Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast.

Terror. The first of the turned Titans. The fire/plant/ice imagery also caught my eye, and when I went back to Solasan to check, there were many hints that this was, indeed, where Terror came into being. (For more, go look at the most recently linked post in this section!)

Huge implications for Solas aside, what this codex taught me is that Titans' natures could change. This was confirmed in Veilguard many times over, yes—but my point here is that Inquisition taught this to me, just a few days before I gained the context of Veilguard. This was never a retcon! However, this lore plays exactly to BioWare's rules: we did not have the full context, and so almost no one read that Deep Roads codex as it was meant to be interpreted—including me, the first few times I read it!

It was only when I'd seen the achievement icons before Veilguard's release that it all clicked for me. All of the lore of Inquisition and everything before it made sense. That was never a bug, never a retcon, but a genius twist on BioWare's behalf: one that almost no one guessed at for an entire decade.

One that changes everything.

Titans, we know for certain now, behave as spirits. Obscure hints in World of Thedas, Inquisition, and the previous games have been confirmed in Veilguard. This new understanding changes not just the Titans, not just the dwarves, but reframes everything we know about the entire history of Thedas and how its magic system works.

______

Thank you for reading! It means a lot when people engage with these. And don't worry: I'm not nearly through with them. It's taken me a while to compile everything, but with more of Veilguard added to the wiki every day, it's a lot easier to compile things for these posts!

(Immense thanks to the wiki staff, of course. <3)

Up Next: Titans and Spirits are far more similar than we think, and it means everything.

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Do we have any canon information on Viago’s age? I tried looking it up but didn’t find anything really, and it’s bothering me. I want to figure out the age gap and stuff with my rook de riva….

we do not! but let me break down the numbers with which we can guess at one so you can all suffer with me through this

ok so apparently, based on, like, comics writers on message boards, we know the comic series where teia and viago make their first tiny appearance, in ventus, is set abt 9:44 dragon. in eight little talons, the tevinter nights short story we get most of our teia and viago knowledge from, they talk about the ventus job like it happened quite recently. it’s the most recent time they worked together, and they don’t act like it’s been that long apart. so let’s say for the sake of argument that we can put eight little talons at roughly 9:45 dragon. i think that basically checks out with the timeline on the antaam occupation (which in eight little talons is on the horizon but hasn’t begun)

what we do know about ages in eight little talons is that teia is 28. so in 9:45 viago is older than 28 and old enough to remark on her being “the youngest talon in history”, but young enough that a 28-year-old is into him with no remark from either of them on him being particularly older or any kind of a large age gap, which given how truly endlessly insecure he is here about whether she’s really into him or just playing around, i feel would come up if it existed. so in his 30s... somewhere? which would mean he was born between 9:06 and 9:15 dragon

dragon age: the veilguard takes place somewhere between 9:49 and 9:54 dragon. (i know.) the veilguard character creator says it’s eight years since the breach (9:49). patrick weekes on bluesky plus the date for thirty years ago featured in the online short story the flame eternal say it’s 9:52. and john epler in a bioware discord q&a says it’s ten years since trespasser (9:54).

so if you believe he’s 30 in eight little talons and that the game is set in 9:49 then he’s 34. but if you believe he’s like 38 in eight little talons and the game is set in 9:54, then he’s 47.

conclusion: ????????

i guess ignoring everything said or published prior to the game, trusting the game itself, and committing to 9:49 veilguard is the smart move though. so that cuts down our variables. if we accept the 9:49 date and that he was in his 30s in 9:45 then he’s... somewhere from 34-43 in veilguard

a further note is i believe the datamined files for veilguard say that teia is 28 and viago 32. this can’t be true because teia was 28 in eight little talons which, even if it wasn’t in 9:45, was definitely at least a couple of years ago. but you could take that as their canon age gap and make viago 32 in eight little talons and thus born in 9:13 dragon and 36 in veilguard? if you felt like it.

[tuxedo-rabbit]

I need everyone who didn’t read the books to know that Felassan (who’s name means slow arrow in elven)

This guy

Who was in several of solas’ memories and has notes around the lighthouse and crossroads

Was in the masked empire. He was a friend and mentor of Brialas and helped her with her efforts to use her relationship with Celene to improve the lives of elves in Orlais (and tried to let her down gently when it became apparent that was not enough).

He refuses to let Briala tell him the code for the eluvian network so that he cannot give it on to Solas. Refusing to tell him would not be enough to keep it from him. When he meets with Solas he tries to convince him that modern elves should be given a chance. Solas murders him, his ally of thousands of years, for this.

In inquisition, Cole says this:

This is what the Betrayal of Felassan represents. Solas murdered his trusted friend and ally because he though modern elves were people whose lives had value.

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I aam really really liking Neve Gallus with her "let's look at this calmly and rationally" approach to situations/emotional constipation, her sitting there trying not to look awkward while Bellara fangirls about her, her love for fried fish off a stall in the lower docks, and her thinking spot being standing in said docks, on planks one year away from rotting through, looking out at the dirty water of a harbor bc it "helps her think". She looks like the kind of woman who will get lost in theories, brilliantly solve a crime, and then crash and burn with greasy hair because she hasn't slept, eaten or showered in a good long while. She's a mood. And I think it's very important to have female characters who are the coolest and look so so good, but whom I can picture as forgetting to eat, sleep and shower, you know?

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Recently on Unhelpful File Labels in the Archives:

On-Going Project. Folders were empty.

Well Written Articles, 1999. There were no articles in this folder. There were a lot of budget reports though.

Stuff. You are killing me smalls.

Section 569-055 Knowingly burning or exploding. This was just papers shoved between files, I have a lot of questions and zero answers.

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Following the author of The Last Unicorn on Facebook is the only thing that makes being on that site worthwhile.

(source)

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(Dragon Age Veilguard spoilers.)

So, when Rook went into the god-prison, they thought Lucanis was dead, right? Rook's running around the prison telling themself they've got to get out, "Find out if Lucanis is… No. He was just knocked out. He can't be dead. I have to get out."

And then Rook does get out! And here's Lucanis, he was just knocked out, he wasn't dead! What a relief!

And when Rook confesses, "I didn't think I'd ever get out of there. How do I know if I really did? This could be more of the Fade," Lucanis assures them, "You're here. You're really here." "Promise?" "I swear."

...

And during Solas's ritual at the very beginning of the game, it looked like Varric got killed, but then Rook woke up and here's Varric, he was just knocked out, he wasn't dead! What a relief!

Rook has just discovered that they have spent this whole game talking to a ghost who isn't really there, that this is something that was used to manipulate them, that they can't trust their perceptions. And the moment they see through that illusion and that ghost disappears, now suddenly there's another person they cared about who appeared to have gotten killed in front of them but who is miraculously fine.

How is Rook supposed to deal with that.

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various and sundry artbook tidbits i found interesting (SPOILERS AHEAD FOR THE VEILGUARD ARTBOOK. obviously)

faction & location stuff:

a sketch page from the very early days exploring shape languages for factions like elves, dwarves, wardens, the necropolis, tevinter, and rivain, also includes concepts for the mages’ college and the ben-hassrath

early rivain concept arts have npcs with a similar armour patterning to duncan’s, suggesting it’s a mark of his rivaini heritage like i always thought!

the depiction of the ““creation story”” suggests elves were mimicking the bodies of dwarves when they formed their own, not humans like i think mythal says in game flashbacks, which would make more sense timeline wise

there’s concept art of the city of ventus, which i believe is of particular relevance to mercar players? it’s right on the border of arlathan forest, and surrounded by magical statues holding out raised hands forming a ward along the tree line to keep it from encroaching

the home base was going to be a lovable fixer-upper of a ship given to us by isabela, named the dumat. this didn’t fit the spy theme they were originally going for, so they tried really really hard to make it a submarine without feeling anachronistic by making it sort of sea monster shaped. there are a lot of cutaways and schematics. they were going to give it a mystery engine that you would get light fetch quests to feed random objects: “ten dried lavender flowers, five quail’s eggs, three brass belt buckles, etc.....” the submarine then turned into an undersea mansion on the back of some giant shambling sea creature you would never get a good look at

later on there were some funny takes on the lighthouse specifically, like bringing back the sea creature theme to put it on the back of an interdimensional veil whale, or having it be the true location of the black emporium with a collection of eluvians that xenon the antiquarian lets you use

there’s a tiny concept art for a “high-speed aravel chase” in a canyon like a western

tevinter gladiators are mentioned a couple times. we WEREEE going to get to see the minrathous proving grounds :( there’s also a dwarven embassy concept art somebody take me out back and shoot me

there are a lot of ghilan’nain creature designs that didn’t make it into the game which is a shame but i can see why they would have been resource heavy

the antiva concept arts are so gorgeous. a lot of it got through! and definitely the overall Vibe made it. at some point it seems to have been antiva city itself; they don’t call it treviso and they mention the circle of magi as a major landmark

“The entrance to the Necropolis is like an inverted Tower of Babel. They seek knowledge in the grave instead of heaven.” <- this just rules as a line

for arlathan: “To differentiate it from previous forest and jungle locations in Dragon Age, we went with an autumnal colour palette. It has the benefit to feeling ominously like the end.”

the veil jumpers have a “skull halla” symbol that “implies their willingness to risk death”. did that end up in the game?

“With each faction, we explored a range of aspirational fantasies. For the Wardens, this ranged from knights in shining armour to butal tanks to a Nietzche quote: ‘Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster.’”

there’s this concept among the warden armours for an insane orlesian noblewoman look with the winter palace morrigan corset and a piled high wig, but the skirts torn knee length and a serrated fan in hand. i’m kind of obsessed

“To bring more life to the world, we thought about what industries would keep the Anderfels afloat. We took the prominent Warden blue colour and envisioned an industry harvesting flowers, creating dye, and then weaving copious amounts of blue fabric.” this is probably where the flower quests in the hossberg wetlands started off conceptually? v cute

character stuff:

in completely different early versions of the game, solas had a “bad cop” right hand woman called reva

imshael the desire demon/choice spirit from the masked empire and inquisition was going to be a two-handed weapon warrior companion, and also sexualised now while in largely feminine form, which would have been a Choice. there is one art of him in masculine form, also sexy but still not showing as much skin as the feminine one

as i said, neve was going to be calpernia

taash was a rogue. (they’re still a light-armoured dual wielder so that checks out.) it seems like davrin was briefly a mage. at some points harding seems to have inherited bianca

saarbrak, another qunari companion, seems to have lastest the longest of the abandoned concepts. he’s the only non-canon one who got as far as having a place for him sketched into designs of the lighthouse: “saarbrak’s planning room”. mentions and sightings of what might be him are sporadic and i think you only see his name on that sketch, but i’m connecting it to the description “a potential qunari companion evolved from saarebas to dapper qunari spy, offering a deeper look into qunari culture”

the embroidery on harding’s clothes is how she passes the time while “waiting for days in a sniper perch” on missions. i just thought that was cute

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What makes me so crazy about Lace/Rook is that we have all the 6 months before the game starts for them to slowly start crushing on each other.

I am VERY slow to fall so I am really enjoying imagine how the relationship progressed from maybe a little rocky start- my Rook is not great at expressing themselves so they often come off as rude at first, and I think Lace in the begging could get an impression that they do not like her. But then they progressively learn more about each other through working together. They discover they work really well together at missions. And slowly but surely they start to get closer. But they got a god to stop, eyes on the prize so there is never really good time to talk about it.

Varric begins to feel like a third wheel on a lot of the missions. Every time he goes with each of them he gets asked "Harding will be there?" "Should we take Rook?" And he has the most knowing tired look about it known to man.

And then the Veilguard happens and everything shift And starts going faster and Rook realizes that you know what maybe me having a crush on my coworker is actually the most normal thing that could be happening to me right now so maybe at this point I should just go for it.

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Fenris comforting Hawke 🥲