#Ben solo meta

[curlytheintrovert]

🔹Another Ben Solo Rant🔹

I think what hurts the most about Ben Solo is the missed potential.

Firstly, I really wanted to see he and Rey fight Palapatine. That one motion, turning to face him in unison with their matching sabers raised, was so powerful. I was so excited when I saw this the first time…its SUCH a shame that they didn’t follow through with it. I needed to hear: “We are all the Jedi.” And to see them fight as a non conflicted dyad in the future?! The thought makes me shiver.

But more than that I wanted Ben to have actually been able to revel in love and his relationship with Rey—to understand how healing someone else’s love and acceptance can be. It was obvious from that precious smile before he died (?) that he hadn’t received much of that. And giving him two seconds of happiness was cruel…Let our boi have some good things, damn it!

Like I wanted to see Ben make friends for the first time and have fun—to see him laugh. I would have loved to see that Han Solo sense of humor and sarcasm that I know he would have had. I would liked to see Ben be a skilled fighter for the Resistance, and show off those Anakin-Han pilot skills we briefly got to see. To see he and Rey’s relationship outside of war and turmoil, in quiet moments and peaceful conversations. It most likely would be complicated and difficult. They would had to fight for their future, I’m sure of it, but that’s what would have made it so special.

I also really really wanted to see Ben actually redeem himself. Honestly, killing him gave him the easy way out, just like Vader. Sure he redeemed himself to Rey, but to try and atone for everything he did and everyone he hurt as Kylo? It would have been so incredibly fascinating and complicated and raw and messy…I would have LOVED it. To see Rey defend him to the Resistance and let him be in their midst would have been so tense. The awkwardness of facing Finn and Poe—after hurting them both—and Ben having to win their trust would have been great. I want the awkward and I want the not so straight forward conclusions. That’s what Kylo represented: The morally gray.

To see a villain redeem himself, atone and accept that forgiveness might not be achievable for some in the galaxy would have been so powerful and unique. And with how so many of us connected with Ben/Kylo it would have been therapeutic all around. But I don’t think a movie would be mature and nuanced enough to pull it off. A show on the other hand, all about Ben’s redemption arc would make me the happiest nerd girl possible! I want something like this instead of the Force ghost scenes we’ll probably get in the new movies.😭

And now that my rant is over, I’ll get back to mourning Ben Solo on a weekly basis, thank you and good bye T_T

[curlytheintrovert]

THIS. EVERY WORD OF THIS…It’s like they rooted around in my head and put my thoughts into words. Adam’s performance was mind blowing, and this is perfectly explains why!

I wrote twitter meta about the one good thing about this film (Adam Driver’s acting, the PURE character work he did with zero dialogue) because I finally figured out what he was talking about when he said he was using “mask work” with Kylo Ren. He wasn’t playing through a mask only when he wore the helmet, he was acting as if his very FACE was a stoic blank mask he was looking through. That’s why Kylo Ren as a character has such a specific feeling to him, and why the audience instantly responded to Ben Solo, who could show his emotions.

This character was always 100% a young boy hiding behind a mask that hid and disallowed every emotion except for his anger, the only emotion that men are allowed to feel. This character is an exploration of how toxic masculinity harms men. And what miracles can happen for men internally when they embrace emotionality and forgive themselves and use their energy to do good. (I’m crying about him again.)

[artist-issues]

I just NEED everyone to agree with me that Rey's parents are nobody. We should all agree about that. We should collectively, as an audience, say, "clearly the best idea was to have Kylo Ren be a dynastic heir to the major legends of the Force who wants to throw off his family's shadow, while his rival is nobody from nowhere who wants to belong--so we're going to stick with that."

And then, what should have happened is, Rey can finish her story by being able to say, "My parents might have abandoned me, but that doesn't mean I'm worthless." And eventually Kylo Ren can say, "My family might have been powerful, but I don't have to be," and all those other things that they can bounce off of each other as great foils.

It can keep being a good story about accepting past failures and choosing to grow beyond them.

Let's just all collectively ignore Rey Skypatine because of how silly that was. I mean. If they can just ignore the setups in the previous movie, we can ignore their choices in the conclusion. Right?? Right? Tell me I'm right

[sad-stucky-shipper-107]

I apologize in advance for spamming the tags but I just had a cursed thought and I need you all to also think about this:

Ik some of us don't really like to acknowledge the sequels but Palpatine rlly said trans rights lmfao when he was tryna transfer his consciousness into Rey's body, like man simply did not give a fuck the body he was trying possess was female.

[darth-jess]

Acolyte is going to age well, I'm telling you.

It's more true to Star Wars than the Sequels, because it's about the things that Star Wars has always been known for:

FAMILY – and the forces (both light and dark) that try to pull it apart.

In the Prequels, Anakin is constantly trying to protect his family: his mother, Padmé, Obi-Wan, the Chancellor. And it's his intense love toward his family that allows him to be manipulated into darkness, which ultimately tears his family apart.

In the Original Trilogy, the Skywalker family has been torn apart by darkness. But the ties of family between Vader, Luke, and Leia are strong, and it's family that saves Vader in the end.

And in Acolyte, we see a family torn apart by the Jedi, and two sisters constantly reaching for each other across space and time, but forces of darkness and justice get in the way.

In the Sequels there's this found family vibe, which in general is great, but in the movies you never get this sense that Rey holds any important family connection with anyone.

CORRUPTION – in others, the people you love, and in the institutions you trust.

In the Prequels, we see the corruption in the Senate, the corruption in the Jedi Order, and Anakin's corruption from light into dark.

In the Original Trilogy, we see the corruption of the Empire, but we also see the seeds of corruption from the old Jedi Order, with Yoda and Obi-Wan constantly telling Luke that he must kill his own father. We see Vader's corruption, and we see Luke unravel it.

In Acolyte, we see Mae corrupted by the dark side, we see Osha corrupted by her own feelings, and we see the Jedi corrupted by their own belief that they are the saviors of the galaxy, that they did the right thing.

In the Sequels, we see Luke, a Jedi, almost killing his nephew– this is absolutely corruption within the Jedi, but this is unbelievably out of character for Luke, who forgave his father, a mass murderer. We also see Ben Solo, but we never see him being corrupted by the dark side. We just see he's pretty much already there.

REDEMPTION – for those who seek it, and those who defy it.

In the Prequels, we are shown the path that takes Anakin into darkness.

And in the Original Trilogy, we are shown a man who defies his own redemption because he believes he does not deserve it, and that it's far too late– and yet he finds redemption anyway.

In Acolyte, almost every Jedi we're introduced to seeks redemption because of the terrible thing they've done, because of the secret they keep. I wouldn't say any of them are actually redeemed, but seeking redemption is an important part of this story for the Jedi characters.

In the Sequels… Yeah Ben Solo is redeemed but redemption isn't exactly a "theme" of the movies.

LOVE – complete, unconditional love, beyond reason.

In the Prequels, Anakin and Padmé share a love like this. Anakin doesn't deny killing younglings, and Padmé (while deeply upset and disturbed) does not stop loving him for what he's done.

In the Original Trilogy, Luke has never known his father, he doesn't have memories of a man who was once kind an honorable and good. All he knows is Darth Vader. And yet, he is willing to forgive his father because he loves him.

In Acolyte, Mae and Osha have both betrayed each other, have both done unspeakable things in each other's eyes, and yet their love for each other never falters. It remains, strong and forgiving, always.

In the Sequels… Is love a main "theme" of the Sequels? Yeah, Leia and Han love their son, but they've kind of given up on him and their marriage, Kylo Ren and Rey do not know each other well enough at all to be in love, and Luke apparently gave up on that unconditional love he got from his mother which allowed him to forgive his father. IDK love isn't a huge part of the Sequels.

POLITICS – I just need to point it out, almost every Star Wars movie or TV series that's actually good includes a lot of politics that's clearly explained and makes a lot of sense.

In the Prequels, we are introduced to the politics of the Galactic Republic, as well as the politics of the Jedi Order.

In The Clone Wars, there are whole story arcs based on politics (that whole arc about deregulating the banks?).

In the Original Trilogy, we hear about the Emperor's political maneuvers and how he's disbanded the Senate. We also come to understand the the Empire rules through fear, military might, and destruction of their opposition.

In Acolyte, we see Jedi politics play out, and we hear about how there are a few senators who do not trust the Jedi and the power they have.

What politics are we given in the Sequels? First Order, bad. Rebels good. And also repeat of the Original Trilogy. Oh, the New Order rules with military might and fear, and they have a Death Star thing. Okay? We've seen all this before.

*Disclaimer: When I'm talking about the Sequels, I'm talking about the movies, not the books. I have not read the books.

[snipsnipsnippy]

Can I just talk about Leia’s lightsaber? For probably a long time..

First, I want to say aesthetically she’s gorgeous. She’s so unique. She’s so sleek. She looks like a Jedi masterpiece.

But goddamn does she suck to use.

So to start from the top, we see this beautiful legacy through Leia’s saber. We have the thin neck and rings calling back to Obi-Wan/Luke’s second saber and the vertical grips calling back to Anakin/Luke/the “Skywalker saber”. And we’re told it’s made of silver and copper with mother of pearl?! which just screams Padmé and Breha to me. I love how certain details of a character’s lineage pass through their sabers. Just beautiful.

And obviously because I love Leia and her lightsaber is beautiful I bought one of these but specifically to use, not to display. And oh boy. The amount of blood I have spilled on this saber is terrible, and no I don’t mean hurting someone else. This is my own literal actual blood from getting sliced and diced by this hilt.

Because those vertical grips are the worst ever idea to put on a handheld weapon. The reason they worked on Anakin’s is because they’re straight and thick and chunky and, most importantly, blunt. The whole feminizing sleek-ifying thing they did with Leia’s - while stunning - renders it useless because the grip is curved and those edges and corners are all hard and sharp. One slip, and it will slice your hand. Not to mention just all over make it uncomfortable to use.

And this is one of those beautifully deep things Star Wars has just stumbled into creating because I don’t think it was ever intended or thought about much more than making a pretty prop.

But it is absolutely poetic that Leia’s lightsaber, representing her journey into the Force, is genuinely something that causes her pain despite bringing her closer to her family. Her entire history with the Force is written into this one tool, which she built with her own hands, and yet wielding this tool is only going to harm her and lead her down a painful and treacherous path that no amount of skill or care can save her from. And for her then to walk away from this because it is too difficult to bear or because her family was telling her that her role is elsewhere in a field that she loves that loves her back is just the most perfectly illustrated piece of Leia’s story.

In short, I absolutely hate this lightsaber, but because of that, I absolutely love the story it tells.

[raleighrador]

Torturing myself with ways Disney changed Star Wars - Violence & Strength part 2

A further follow to this https://www.tumblr.com/raleighrador/774909537693171712/a-final-thought-to-add-here-my-belief-is-that?source=share

If you like the sequels and specifically like Rey, you may want to skip this post. As a character I think she - as might be expected from the face of the sequel trilogy - is the purist distillation of how Disney fundamentally changed the narrative role of strength and violence, and power more generally.

I also think this broadly makes for an uninteresting character that has limited efficacy as part of a story, and is almost purely a marketing/fan service vehicle.

On violence and strength: Rey basically wins every single meaningful fight she gets into. Almost every physical confrontation is an illustration of how badass and competent she is. This is true throughout the trilogy.

In TFA her first confrontation is with Finn, a trained storm trooper raised from childhood to be a soldier. Rey effortlessly disarms him and gets him on the ground. Sure, she has a weapon and he doesn't but still.

Compare this with Luke's first few conflicts - he is knocked out by the Tuskens, he needs Ben to save him in the cantina.

There is the climactic fight with Kylo Ren. First, she "overpowers" Kylo and is able to snatch the lightsaber out of his Force grip, and then she defeats him in a duel. I know Kylo had been shot by Chewie but when I watch that scene I don't see anything that is meant to indicate he is operating at far below his best.

Again, compare this to either Luke or Anakin's first duels (after significantly more training). They both lose, badly, and are dismembered. Sure, Vader and Dooku are perhaps meant to be understood as far more powerful and dangerous than Kylo but the point remains.

Rey actually has limited fights in TLJ - but the throne room is clearly the most meaningful one. Again, pertinent observations: Rey (and Kylo) are able to defeat 8 Praetorian guards (who have the visual and contextual signal of "baddies you should worry about, not regular mooks"). Her and Kylo then again play tug of war with the lightsaber, and are evenly matched to the point that the saber gets ripped in half.

Again - Rey doesn't lose. In fact, we get a long lingering fight scene to show how cool and bass and good at fighting she is. She is tempted by Kylo, tempted by the dark side, and rejects it.

Completely unscathed, it is worth adding.

Again, compare this with Luke (tempted and mutilated by his father), or Anakin who gives in to the dark (on Tattooine and arguably on Geonosis) and is mutilated physically and spiritually in doing so.

Finally we get to TROS.

Rey's first "fight" is with Kylo where she destroys his TIE with a saber, then uses force lightning to destroy a ship (and maybe but turns out not actually kill Chewie).

Her second is the vision/teleport duel with Kylo across the ship and the planet. Again, it is a draw, Rey certainly doesn't lose.

She and Kylo duel again on the wreckage of the DS. Maybe Kylo is distracted but he certainly isn't winning, and Rey then stabs him (which is commonly believed to indicate someone "winning" a sword fight). She then Force heals him and saves his life.

On Exegol her and Ben Solo then murder their way through the Praetorians and Knights of Ren, before directly confronting Palpatine. The jeopardy in the narrative is created by the fact that if Rey kills Palpatine out of anger, she becomes a Sith, but if she doesn't kill him she dies and so does the Resistance. Rey then hears the voices of all the past Jedi - including, just in case we didn't get it, Anakin Skywalker telling her to bring balance to the Force like he did (did he?) - and magically teleports Ben's lightsaber so she can dual wield and redirect the lightning Palpatine is blasting and kill shim with that.

She then dies from the effort (before immediately being brought back to life by Ben).

Again, contrast this with Anakin's fight with Obi-Wan on Mustafar or Luke's confrontation with Vader on DS2. Anakin and Obi-Wan both lose on Mustafar - the mere act of engaging in violence empowers the Dark and ultimately completes the creation of Darth Vader.

Luke only wins by throwing down his saber, by refusing to meet violence with violence.

Lucas had a clear metaphysical logic that is reflected in the use and role of violence.

Violence has a cost. There is no escaping that. Violence is almost always wrong - even if you believe it to be right and approach it dispassionately. There is no just killing, not such that your soul can survive.

Luke and Anakin are - narratively - consistently punished for choosing violence. Every time they try and solve a problem with violence they lose a loved one, a body part, a piece of their soul.

The same is true - to a lesser degree - for Obi-Wan. He defeats Maul but loses Qui-Gon. His decision to follow Dooku results in his and Anakin's injuries and achieves nothing. He is the one who swings a saber through whatever limited remains of Anakin might exist and heralds the final birth of Vader.

Contrast this with the fight on the DS. Obi-Wan knows there is no victory in fighting Vader, but in refusing to fight, in sheathing his sword, he can achieve a power far greater than the Sith can imagine.

TLJ's final scene where Mirage Luke confronts Kylo is actually also consistent with this, and it's why it is in isolation some of my absolute favourite Star Wars.

TLJ is also very confusing while it DOES apply the same logic as Lucas to Luke (try and kill your sleeping nephew = bad, using the Force to distract the First Order while you never actually harm anyone = good) it doesn't to Rey or Kylo.

Disney - by contrast - certainly do not treat violence in the same way. In fact, Disney takes a starkly different view which is almost readable as "might makes right" or maybe more accurately "being right makes you mighty".

Rey is good and pure and therefore she wins all her fights. She is on the side of the Light and so cannot lose. Kylo Ren, by contrast, is Evil and so despite more training and experience he consistently loses. It is only when he fights for the right reasons - killing Snoke and his guards to help Rey, or saving Rey from Palpatine - that he wins.

This is... distinctly weird. How, for example, are we meant to reinterpret the original 6 films or the wider Star Wars universe with this logic? I take it Palpatine was mostly right?

What you might say is actually that violence has no narrative weight. Maybe. That is as much of a change from Lucas as anything else but it also significantly limits the ability to tell a story in the context of the medium of sci fi action movies.

And that is actually the point, I think. There is no meaningful narrative interpretation of violence in the Disney films. The fight scenes serve no real purpose - they do not represent crucibles in which characters develop and transform, nor do they provide any level or moral insight.

They are purely vehicles for a) cool cinematography (and to be clear, the Sequels are consistently BEAUTIFUL and the fights scenes are some of the best) and b) emphasising how awesome the poster girl is and how neat it would be if you bought Lego and action figures and and and.

[raisedbythetv89]

I just started watching White Collar for the first time and a realization about most male written and directed media smacked me DIRECTLY in the face which is that SO MUCH media written by a for men is genuinely just male nerd self insert, non-canon compliant, AU fan fiction??????

Like them writing and creating stories is just “ok so these guys are soooo smooth and well dressed and women just flock to them at every turn and they can get away with anything and everyone believes and supports them when they do mess up and everyone thinks they’re sooooo brilliant”

This media isn’t just portraying women “for the male gaze” it’s EVERYTHING. Everything in these stories is supporting and uplifting mens’ delusions about who they are, how they’re perceived, and how they should expect to be treated. Which is incredibly ironic because anytime media portrays women or the world in the female gaze in a more “in my ideal world things would be like this” instead of portraying us as nothing but weak, broken, unloved, traumatized, victims OR one dimensional sex symbols with no needs or emotions they’re screaming, crying, throwing up about how stupid and unrealistic the story is….

This explains SO MUCH about how male characters are handled in shows like Veronica Mars and Buffy. Even though they’re shows staring women all the “good guys” get the delusional self insert, y/n, AU fan fic treatment (Buffy still wants Angel in season 3 and Riley in season 6 even after everything they did and Xander is CONSTANTLY forgiven for all the atrocious shit he says and does and is wanted by all women besides Buffy. Veronica forgiving Duncan and getting back together with him and even CONSIDERING Piz could truly only be born from men being delusional AS FUCK. Writing how they want men to be treated by women rather than being based in reality and the woman having even an ounce of self respect.)

Which is why the “bad boys”, Logan and Spike are such better characters. They’re so much more realistic, they get held accountable by the women in their lives, have better growth and are just way more appealing and attractive because they’re not the walking embodiment of what MEN want men to be treated and act like.

Oh god this feels like such cursed knowledge to have like it’s important to see this media for what it really is but now watching it feels that much yuckier like finding the porn of someone you DO NOT LIKE but like their emotional porn “this is what life would be like in my fantasies” and they’re the fantasies of the grossest men alive 😭😭😭😭😭

Also it shows their emotional maturity like all of these things are what 13 year old boys fantasize about not actual mature, grown men….

Also just realized this is why the Star Wars sequels were so hated. It wasn’t just Rey being powerful and loved by her found family and Kylo. It was that the movies showed the reality of men like Kylo. They destroyed the male fantasy Darth Vader created. They aren’t super cool, powerful badasses. They’re extremely sad, broken, temper tantrum throwing lost little boys who just want love and acceptance but have lost the ability to accept it because of the dark side (aka the patriarchy) which is the reality and that made me SOOOOO ANGRY lololololololol and this is why Joss Whedon THOUGHT making Spike into a sad pathetic mama’s boy of a poet would make the audience not like him because that DOES work on misogynistic men who enjoy the male gaze but does NOT work and only humanizes and makes Spike even more complex and lovable to the female gaze 💀💀💀💀 oh good lord

[intergalactic-cutie-pie]

All this right here

NOT MY EDIT. CREDITS TO THE AUTHOR!!!

[myfandomrambles]

The fact that the disaster lineage produces multiple sith lords multiple hermits and multiple people who left the faith is kind of terrible and funny.

I think maybe we should blame Yoda. Like it was just generational fuckery so like it's Yoda's doing for reals. I mean thinking down the line there were a lot of mistakes made.

Like I love these stupid little space wizards but I think we should blame Yoda tbh

[david-talks-sw]

Luke Skywalker in 'The Last Jedi' (1/2)

Luke in The Last Jedi... love it or hate it, it's a difficult subject.

I personally stand somewhere in the middle. I don't think Luke was "ruined"... I'd argue that, from a purely in-universe perspective, his subplot actually tracks with what was previously established in the original films.

There are issues, but I think they are mainly found on an out-of-universe/structural level (which I'll get into in post 2/2). For now, let's take a deep dive and unpack why this portrayal isn't all that problematic.

The most commonly-heard argument is that:

"They ruined Luke's character! He would never go into exile or abandon his sister and friends!"

Simply put, Luke used to be:

an optimist

so brave he'd risk his life to save his friends,

aspired to become a Jedi.

Whereas, in The Last Jedi, he's:

jaded and depressed,

hides/abandons his sister and friends, like a coward,

says the Jedi need to die?!

Now the fact is... Luke is 24 years older when he goes into exile, 30 years older in The Last Jedi. People change, with age.

In Luke's case, he matured from an impatient kid who'd rashly run to save his friends, like in Empire Strikes Back, to a grown-up who makes hard choices and restrains himself from doing that, even though he desperately wants to.

Luke tells himself this is a self-sacrifice, this is for the greater good.

"Because he’s the last Jedi and a symbol of that it then becomes this self-sacrifice, he has take himself out of it, when he knows his friends are dying, when the thing he’d most like to do is get back in the fight." - Rian Johnson, The Empire Film Podcast, 2018

And Rian Johnson didn't want Luke to come across as a coward, so he also gave Luke an argument that initially seems to make sense:

The Jedi way is flawed and inevitably leads to arrogance. Proof: the Sith originally came from Jedi. His own new order is no exception to that rule, even if he thought it was (in his arrogance, he believed his own legend).

So if he leaves and stays in exile? No more Jedi, no more Jedi-turned-darksiders that can mess up the galaxy.

The Force will keep trying to balance itself and a new, worthier source will appear (in the form of Rey).

But while his reasoning that "the Jedi are inevitably arrogant" seems sound and reasonable... it's wrong.

Just like Dooku's reasoning that "the Jedi are corrupt" seems sound, but is ultimately wrong.

Just like Anakin's rationalization that "the Jedi are evil" seems sound nope, that one doesn't even seem sound, it's just plain wrong.

Where is it wrong, in Luke's case?

Well, he's rationalizing his actions by blaming the Jedi religion, instead of admitting his own failure.

"The notion of, 'Nope, toss this all away and find something new,' is not really a valid choice, I think. Ultimately, Luke's exile and his justifications for it are all covering over his guilt over Kylo." - Rian Johnson, The Art of The Last Jedi, 2017

"In his own way, [Luke is] trying to disconnect, he’s trying to throw away the past, he’s saying 'Let’s kill [the Jedi] religion. It’s the thing that’s messing us up, thins thing right here, let’s kill it.’ And the truth is, it’s a personal failure. It’s not religion, it’s his own human nature that’s betrayed him." - Rian Johnson, The Empire Film Podcast, 2018

He fucked up, plain and simple.

But it's not because “he’s a Jedi and that made him arrogant and the Jedi mentality is flawed”, as he claims early on in the movie.

He failed because he's flawed. Luke is human and had a moment of weakness where he was scared shitless and acted on instinct.

Yoda's spirit helps him realize this, and he fixes his mistake by allowing Leia and the resistance to save themselves. And as he does it, he acknowledges the importance of the Jedi and their teachings.

And it's also why, in The Rise of Skywalker, he has the maturity to admit that he wasn't staying on the island out of some self-sacrificial gesture, as he kept telling himself. Truth is, he was afraid. Afraid he'd screw up again.

Do the movies go about this in an emotionally-satisfying way? That's debatable. But, on paper, I don't think Luke's behavior in The Last Jedi is too much of a shark-jump considering how

THE ORIGINAL IDEA CAME FROM GEORGE LUCAS!

In the couple of months after the Disney sale, Lucas developed the Sequels with Michael Arndt in late 2012/early 2013, and concept art was made by artists like Christian Alzmann.

Note: the image on the left got a “Fabouloso” stamp of approval from Lucas!

Lucas’ sequels would feature a Luke Skywalker who was a figure like the jaded, reclusive Colonel Kurtz in the movie Apocalypse Now (which, fun fact, Lucas helped write and was originally set to direct).

The reason why Luke was in self-imposed exile wasn’t specified, all we know is that he was:

hiding from the world in a cave,

haunted by the betrayal of one of his students,

and spiritually in a dark place.

Other concept artists, like James Clyne, tried to illustrate the First Jedi Temple and some of the designs were approved by Lucas, such as the one below.

Eventually, Kira the female Jedi-wannabe protagonist (who eventually became Rey) would seek him out so he can train her.

This Luke would be a much more prominent part of Episode VII (instead of only appearing at the end) but still died at the end of Episode VIII.

For sources and more information about George Lucas’ plans for the Sequel Trilogy, read this post.

The only part that wasn't detailed by Lucas were the specifics of why he went into exile. But all in all, this sounds pretty similar to what we got in The Last Jedi.

"Luke would never try to kill Ben!”

I agree. And he didn’t try to kill Ben. He stopped himself.

And this version of the event?

This didn’t happen.

What Kylo tells Rey is his version of the story. And he thinks he’s telling the truth... but his recollection of the event is warped as this was obviously a very traumatic event for him.

"I don't think he's lying actually. In my mind, that was his experience. [...] I think that it's probably twisted a little bit by Kylo's own anger and his own prejudices against Luke, but I feel like he's actually telling her the truth of his experience." - Rian Johnson, Star Wars: The Last Jedi commentary, 2017

The narrative frames the third version of the story as the one that’s objectively how events went down. Because Rey believes him, and Rey is both the protagonist and a stand-in for the audience.

Now, if you think Luke’s word is unreliable and you have an easier time trusting Kylo’s version of the story, go to town.

But I think that if you actually believe would Luke would never try to kill Ben, you’d take Luke's second retelling of the story at face value.

I know I do.

“Okay, but he would never consider killing a child, like Ben. He saw the good in Darth Vader!”

First off, Luke refers to Ben as "a scared boy" because, he's a middle-aged man. But objectively, Ben was 23 years old.

But also, I mean... with Vader, Luke actually had the luxury ignorance.

Do you think would have truly gone on that Second Death Star if he had actually witnessed Vader:

choke his Padmé,

kill Obi-Wan,

actively try to kill Ahsoka,

murder Jedi younglings,

betray and hunt down his other Jedi brothers and sisters,

and cold-bloodedly kill countless innocents, one by one?

There’s a difference between watching him kill Ben Kenobi (who still ‘lived’ as a ghost and talked to him seconds later) and hearing a couple of rebel pilots get blasted in the trench run, and actually seeing all the horrors he’s committed.

Don't get me wrong, Luke knows Vader is evil, absolutely. But if he had seen this side of Vader, the needlessly cruel side...

... I'm not sure he'd have been as compassionate.

Proof: Obi-Wan, someone who deeply loved Anakin (to the point where he could never bring himself to kill him), someone that genuinely wishes that Luke can redeem him... also feels that, realistically, attempting to do so would be pointless.

And hell, even without really seeing all the massacres Vader committed, the second the latter threatened his sister, Luke went berserk and almost killed him!

So the question becomes:

“What could make Luke - trained Jedi Master, long-time optimist and overall compassionate to a fault - consider killing Ben?”

All we’re told is that he looked into Ben’s mind and saw darkness and the destruction, pain, death, and the end of everything he loves.

The specifics are left to our imagination. They could include:

the sight of Kylo slaughtering his parents and Chewie with a smile on his blood-smeared face,

the smell of Han's burning flesh in the air,

the wails of Chewbacca as he's run through by Kylo,

the faint sound of Leia's tears hitting the ground,

the destruction of the New Republic's citizens and planets.

Whatever it may have been, it was intense. Because Force-induced visions are vivid as hell, as has been shown throughout the franchise.

It's not like watching something on a TV, you're there, all your senses are affected in an extremely powerful way.

And the vision Luke experienced scared him so much that even shortly after it, when looking at a sleeping young man, all he sees is that evil monster from the vision. So he tremblingly draws his saber.

But it's evident that Luke wasn't thinking clearly or rationally.

His base emotions had taken the wheel, he was being tempted by the Dark Side.

"He doesn’t give in to the Dark Side, it’s a moment of temptation to the Dark Side. It reminds me very much of when Vader is tempting Luke, when Luke is underneath the stairs in [Return of the] Jedi, lit with that very beautiful half-and-half, the duality of these two sides of him being pulled. And that’s really what that moment is for me, it’s a moment of temptation to the Dark Side for Luke." - Rian Johnson, IGN, 2017

And yet despite seeing all that... Luke catches himself.

It's not the first time that Luke almost does something horrible to a family member and catches himself. Again, 24 years prior, he almost murdered his own father in a fit of rage.

The scene in Ben's hut intentionally parallels that outburst he has in Return of the Jedi.

A terrible future is presented before Luke.

He reacts instinctively, is tempted by the Dark Side.

He snaps out of it.

Even the angle and framing of the shot is designed to match:

"Some of these parallels are just “it’s a close-up of the same character” but this one was very intentional. It’s why I had him look down at his mechanical hand holding the saber." - Rian Johnson, Twitter, 2019

The only real difference is that, in Return of the Jedi, Luke only comes to his senses after a frenzied onslaught during which he actively tried to kill his own Dad.

24 years later, despite having witnessed that terrible future even more vividly than he did on the Second Death Star, he catches himself merely seconds later. Instead of going on a whole rampage, he stops the moment the lightsaber turns on.

I'd call that "progress".

"But Luke should've learned his lesson and known better than to give in to the Dark Side!"

Resisting the temptation of the Dark Side is by no means a one-and-done thing. It's not a power-up that you get, it's a constant struggle.

"I think it disrespects the character of Luke by treating him not as a true mythic hero overcoming recurring wounds & flaws, but as a video game character who has achieved a binary, permanent power-up." - Rian Johnson, Twitter, 2019

Dave Filoni says so too.

"In the end, it’s about fundamentally becoming selfless, moreso than selfish. It seems so simple, but it’s so hard to do. And when you’re tempted by the dark side, you don’t overcome it once in life and then you’re good. It’s a constant." - Dave Filoni, Rebels Remembered, 2019

Hell, even George Lucas stated something along those lines:

"The Sith practice the dark side and are way out of balance. The Jedi aren’t as much out of balance because they’re the light side of the Force. They still have the bad side of the Force in them, but they keep it in check. It’s always there, so it can always erupt if you let your guard down." - George Lucas, The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005, 2020

Learning the lesson once doesn't mean you've learned it forever. Especially with the Dark Side, which poses a never-ending battle.

In-universe examples: Anakin learned to let go of his attachments during the “Padawan Lost” arc of TCW.

A year and a half later, he’s butchering kids because he can’t let go of his attachments.

And during wartime, Yoda found himself repressing his darker instincts and ignoring their existence. Thus, when he had to face them, he struggled to acknowledge and control them.

So considering Luke didn't go "rampage mode" with Ben, as he did when he tried to kill Vader, I think he deserves some credit.

Finally, I've heard this insane argument many times, as a response to the above points:

"Yeah but Luke wasn't actually trying to kill Vader! He was holding back, he was trying to keep him alive!"

And, uh... no. He wasn't.

He lost his shit, folks. And almost killed Vader.

Like, right here?

⬆️ If Vader hadn’t moved his saber to intercept Luke’s blade, Luke would’ve stabbed Vader in the face.

⬆️ If Vader hadn’t held his sword up in time, SWISH, there goes the top of his helmet AT LEAST, if not the rest of his head.

⬆️ If Vader hadn’t dodged he’d be chopped in two.

⬆️ If Vader’s arm gave out slightly sooner, if his blade faltered just a little lower, if he loosened his grip on his saber a bit, Vader would be cleaved in two.

My point is that if you swing at someone with a lightsaber? They’ll get chopped. And if you aim for the head or the chest? You’re trying to kill them.

Before Luke got a grip, throughout that whole rampage, the only thing that kept Vader alive was his own skill.

Otherwise, Luke would’ve murdered him in a fit of rage.

If Luke was holding back, then the theme of "resisting the Dark Side" completely falls apart.

There's no indication that he was restraining himself, in he script.

And just look at the imagery.

Luke is surrounded by darkness, symbolizing how he's being seduced by the Dark Side, he's being tempted to give in to his anger towards the man who hurt his friends and took his hand.

Then Vader threatens Leia.

And the next time we see Luke, he's silhouetted, his face is all black.

Luke was originally trying to hold back and talk Vader down, but fails to control his instincts and gives in to fear, to anger, to the Dark Side... and goes all out.

He swings at his father furiously and keeps swinging, until he cuts off Vader's hand... and he is about to deliver the final blow…

… when he sees Vader’s mechanical hand and realizes that by giving in to his anger, that path will inevitably lead him to become exactly like this half-machine half-man laying at his feet. That’s where the path to power leads.

And so he makes a decision:

He’s a Jedi. Like his father before him. His compassion for Anakin is stronger than his hate for Vader.

That's the narrative intent.

It has to be.

Because if he had been "holding back" throughout that entire bit, then the stakes are lowered immeasurably, John Williams' saddening score is misplaced, the lightsaber choreography is misleading, etc.

For the above-listed reasons, I think Luke's portrayal in The Last Jedi doesn't really contradict anything in the previously-established lore. It works, it's the typical "old cowboy needs to get back in the saddle" trope. Frankly, I can defend this subject all day long... so where's the problem?

The problem comes in at an out-of-universe level. While it's not inconsistent... it's also not satisfying.

The thing is, if you...

... take one of the most brave and optimistic characters in the franchise, then open the film saying "well, now he's jaded and in hiding", without giving us context on how he became that way...

... take a character whose arc was specifically about controlling his emotions, then show him be ruled by those emotions without providing context for what made him do that...

... then that kills the suspension of disbelief, for a lot of fans.

And, as such, they'll have a much harder time going along with what you're saying.

Because "show, don't tell" is one of the most basic principles in visual storytelling. And we weren't shown:

"Ben being increasingly violent during training",

"Luke sitting Ben down and having a talk with him, only to be ignored" or

"the horrors Luke saw in Ben's head".

I have no doubt that those things happened, in-universe.

But if we're talking about a movie-going experience, many were left emotionally-unsatisfied.

Because all that stuff was in there... but only subtextually. It was up to the fans to imagine on the details. Normally, I'd argue that's what Star Wars is all about: allowing fans to dream and think outside the box. But in this specific case, I think many fans would've rather had a more complete and explicit story. Because it's Luke Skywalker.

And yet... even these structural and writing issues had a logic behind them, and if you ask me... there was no other direction that this story could be taken in.

We'll explore this in more detail in part 2/2.

[fanfictiongreenirises]

the way they literally addressed all the real life hate mail sue was getting in the comic

[thewayofthetrashcompactor]

Showing young Ben as thinking "maybe the Empire was right" is just such a fundamental misunderstanding of his storyline and what happened to him. He had the literal star wars personification of evil inside his head from a young age (originally shown in the comics, confirmed on screen in tRoS), telling him that maybe he was evil too, that the people around him knew it. And unintentionally, they play into that, even when they're trying to do their best for him: Leia sends him to train with Luke, hoping her brother who's spent years studying the Force, one of the only people she can trust, will be able to help her son who is struggling with elements she has no experience with, and Palpatine is there to whisper in Ben's mind that this is rejection, they're sending him away because they know he's evil and hate him for it. Luke tries to treat him as equal, and Palpatine is there giving the same explanation of rejection. All this building up to Luke standing over him with his saber, because he's seen the people he loves dying because of this kid, and it's the final confirmation for Ben that everything Palpatine has ever told him is true, that the people who should love him want him dead.

And it's a tragedy, because Leia and Luke (and Han) had no idea what they were fighting against, had no way to understand what was really happening to Ben, and Palpatine has been haunting the Skywalkers since the beginning, taking everything that should've been good in them and twisting it for himself. Ben is an echo of Anakin, where Palpatine was able to speak into the ear of the chosen one and corrupt all his potential because he always has a plan far beyond what the heroes can see. And to heal the wound from Palpatine, Ben should've been able to live free of his influence, but Palpatine succeeded in killing every single one of his family in the end and that's the tragedy we're met with.

But yeah. Positioning Ben as this contrary kid who's taking an edgy political stance to be contrary has nothing to do with his actual character or arc. He never shows any interest in the politics of the First Order throughout the movies or additional material. Maybe you're thinking of Hux.

[a-manda-lorian]

I don’t know about y’all, but I have been perpetually disappointed in franchise/series endings for years now. Is fandom the problem??? Like, we all get on here and theorize and come up with bangin’ meta… and then the writers give us a steaming pile of 💩 for the actual film/show/book ending… How are the fans better at coming up with amazing story ideas while the people making the big bucks are making lousy stories??? All these things that end up in story for us to analyze can’t just be accidents, but then why do they never get fleshed out and come to a logical conclusion???

I’m just confused. Should we stop doing this, hyping ourselves up and setting unrealistic expectations on story writers…?

I feel like I’m being punked… where’s Ashton????

[curlytheintrovert]

Why I Love Reylo (Pt.2)

(My old post for reasons unknown got deleted😭)

One of my other favorite parts of this couple is that they are atypically gender reversed. It’s one of the many reasons this ship is so intriguing and unique compared to others. Let me explain. Typically in most hetero romances the man is the abrasive, closed off one at first and is generally a prickly little shit. While the girl is typically softer, a little more compassionate and open minded. This not the case with Rey and Kylo.

Rey’s first interaction with Kylo is shooting a blaster at him multiple times in succession. Granted she does have a Force vision of Kylo at Maz’s which makes her justifiably hostile and afraid of him. During the interrogation scene Kylo reads her mind and speaks her thoughts out loud: she wants to kill him. Rey calls him a creature in a mask and angrily tells him to get out of her head. And then proceeds to spit Kylo’s greatest fear back in his face with such venom. I love how she snarls: “You. You’re afraid.”

Kylo on the other hand only defends himself from her blasts and force stops her from shooting any further. He gently says: “The girl I’ve heard so much about.” Kylo easily could have dragged her away or thrown her into the hands of the troopers beside him—but instead he makes Rey sleep and scoops her up into his arms bridal style. In the interrogation room Kylo sees Rey’s fear and says she’s his guest. He takes off his mask. Then explains things calmly—never raising his voice above a murmur. The curiosity about her is strong as Kylo probes her mind and the responses to what he finds there are emotional. I love so much how he says “Don’t be afraid, I feel it too.” It just feels so incredibly kind considering the circumstances—like that was the first little glimpse of Ben we got.

The shift that happens when Rey uses the force back on Kylo is what really sets the tone for the rest of their relationship. Rey attacks and responds negatively—Kylo gently deflects and tries to connect. If you watch throughout the rest of the films this dynamic doesn’t really change. Almost all of their force bonds in TLJ are similar: Rey being barbarous and Kylo being benign. A majority of their saber fights are like this too—Kylo plays defense, is hesitant to pull out his saber multiple times or looks like he’s doesn’t want to fight her period.

See what I mean?! Rey is hostile and prickly—Kylo is open minded and gentle.

The other gender swapped aspect is that in a way Kylo is the damsel of this pairing. He’s trapped far away, lonely and miserable, in a figurative tower. Rey fights Luke for his cause and goes to rescue and save him if she can. But I also see Kylo as an emotional damsel too. He’s so lost, and hurt and twisted. Rey offers him a way back—she’s the only one who can—and in the long run is the very reason he is able to become Ben Solo again. But it’s when Rey lets her guard down and mellows her prejudice that their relationship flourishes. Kylo/Ben is already ready and waiting to love and be loved…

Man, this pairing is complex and fun to analyze!

[allgirlsareprincesses]

Do you think that Rey's story (excluding episode 9 'cause that was a shitshow) could be interpreted as a Cinderella/Ash girl story?

I hope you realize asking me this is like throwing chum to a shark 😈. But the short answer is yes, to a point.

The long answer is more complicated, so to begin with, let's consult the Cinderella bible:

According to the Aarne Thompson Uther Index, there are five primary motifs to a Cinderella tale:

Persecuted heroine, usually by family

Help or helper, usually magic

Meeting the prince, usually with true identity disguised

Identification or penetration of disguise, usually by means of an object

Marriage to the prince

Rey is abandoned by her family, which is a form of persecution, and harassed by the inhabitants of Jakku like Unkar Plutt. Thus she clearly fulfills the first item.

As for meeting a helper, there are several for her, including Han Solo, Maz, Luke, and Leia. Any or all of these may be considered fairy godparents in the way that they offer her wisdom and material help. Further, except for Maz, they all die in the course of the story, which is consistent with many Cinderella tales in which the helper dies and their bones continue to offer wisdom and comfort to the heroine.

Next, meeting the prince. I mean

To the extent that Rey is "in disguise' here, it would be the extent of her force powers, her destiny as Ben Solo's dyad mate, and her role as the heir apparent to the Jedi (chosen by the Force to wield the legacy saber), all of which are obscured from Kylo Ren when he discovers her in the forest. Further, she is grimy and covered in desert sand, similar to how Cinderella is smeared with ashes that hide her true beauty.

So now an object penetrates the disguise. This is obviously the Skywalker lightsaber, which reveals Rey to be everything listed above, especially when she calls it to her on Starkiller Base, and again when she wields it on Ahch-to.

And lastly, marriage to the prince. As many others have pointed out over the years, Rey and Ben have almost too many symbolic marriages to count in the course of the sequel trilogy. They're extremely married, the Force said so.

BUT WAIT! Go back and look at that list again. Who ELSE fits all those criteria?

It's our boy! Consider:

He is indeed persecuted by family, most notably when Luke momentarily considers killing him.

Ben's helpers are both dark and light, as Snoke/Palpatine guide him in the dark while Luke guides him in the light (poorly). But note again what I said above about the bones of the mentor continuing to offer guidance and comfort after their death. Who should appear at Ben's lowest hour but his departed father, Han Solo? With a message of love, acceptance, and encouragement, Han's memory (because in fairy tales, bones contain memory) encourages Ben to at last cast off his beastly skin and become who he always was.

Next, meeting the prince/ss in disguise. He's wearing a literal mask when he meets Rey, so yeah.

An object penetrates the disguise? Rey slashed his face with the legacy saber, thus symbolically peeling away his mask. And I've argued before that the stabbing in TROS (which I still HATE, btw) is another cutting or burning away of the beastly skin.

And lastly, marriage to the prince/ss. As previously stated, that happened. Many times.

So yes, the Sequel Trilogy can definitely be considered a Cinderella story, with but one glaring issue: Cinderella's husband usually doesn't die at the end. But that's another topic that's been done to death, so let's all just read some more fanfic and forget about it. 👑 Thank you for the ask, this was fun!