#ben solo meta

[curlytheintrovert]

🔹Another Ben Solo Rant🔹

I think what hurts the most about Ben Solo is the missed potential.

Firstly, I really wanted to see he and Rey fight Palapatine. That one motion, turning to face him in unison with their matching sabers raised, was so powerful. I was so excited when I saw this the first time…its SUCH a shame that they didn’t follow through with it. I needed to hear: “We are all the Jedi.” And to see them fight as a non conflicted dyad in the future?! The thought makes me shiver.

But more than that I wanted Ben to have actually been able to revel in love and his relationship with Rey—to understand how healing someone else’s love and acceptance can be. It was obvious from that precious smile before he died (?) that he hadn’t received much of that. And giving him two seconds of happiness was cruel…Let our boi have some good things, damn it!

Like I wanted to see Ben make friends for the first time and have fun—to see him laugh. I would have loved to see that Han Solo sense of humor and sarcasm that I know he would have had. I would liked to see Ben be a skilled fighter for the Resistance, and show off those Anakin-Han pilot skills we briefly got to see. To see he and Rey’s relationship outside of war and turmoil, in quiet moments and peaceful conversations. It most likely would be complicated and difficult. They would had to fight for their future, I’m sure of it, but that’s what would have made it so special.

I also really really wanted to see Ben actually redeem himself. Honestly, killing him gave him the easy way out, just like Vader. Sure he redeemed himself to Rey, but to try and atone for everything he did and everyone he hurt as Kylo? It would have been so incredibly fascinating and complicated and raw and messy…I would have LOVED it. To see Rey defend him to the Resistance and let him be in their midst would have been so tense. The awkwardness of facing Finn and Poe—after hurting them both—and Ben having to win their trust would have been great. I want the awkward and I want the not so straight forward conclusions. That’s what Kylo represented: The morally gray.

To see a villain redeem himself, atone and accept that forgiveness might not be achievable for some in the galaxy would have been so powerful and unique. And with how so many of us connected with Ben/Kylo it would have been therapeutic all around. But I don’t think a movie would be mature and nuanced enough to pull it off. A show on the other hand, all about Ben’s redemption arc would make me the happiest nerd girl possible! I want something like this instead of the Force ghost scenes we’ll probably get in the new movies.😭

And now that my rant is over, I’ll get back to mourning Ben Solo on a weekly basis, thank you and good bye T_T

[curlytheintrovert]

THIS. EVERY WORD OF THIS…It’s like they rooted around in my head and put my thoughts into words. Adam’s performance was mind blowing, and this is perfectly explains why!

I wrote twitter meta about the one good thing about this film (Adam Driver’s acting, the PURE character work he did with zero dialogue) because I finally figured out what he was talking about when he said he was using “mask work” with Kylo Ren. He wasn’t playing through a mask only when he wore the helmet, he was acting as if his very FACE was a stoic blank mask he was looking through. That’s why Kylo Ren as a character has such a specific feeling to him, and why the audience instantly responded to Ben Solo, who could show his emotions.

This character was always 100% a young boy hiding behind a mask that hid and disallowed every emotion except for his anger, the only emotion that men are allowed to feel. This character is an exploration of how toxic masculinity harms men. And what miracles can happen for men internally when they embrace emotionality and forgive themselves and use their energy to do good. (I’m crying about him again.)

[artist-issues]

I just NEED everyone to agree with me that Rey's parents are nobody. We should all agree about that. We should collectively, as an audience, say, "clearly the best idea was to have Kylo Ren be a dynastic heir to the major legends of the Force who wants to throw off his family's shadow, while his rival is nobody from nowhere who wants to belong--so we're going to stick with that."

And then, what should have happened is, Rey can finish her story by being able to say, "My parents might have abandoned me, but that doesn't mean I'm worthless." And eventually Kylo Ren can say, "My family might have been powerful, but I don't have to be," and all those other things that they can bounce off of each other as great foils.

It can keep being a good story about accepting past failures and choosing to grow beyond them.

Let's just all collectively ignore Rey Skypatine because of how silly that was. I mean. If they can just ignore the setups in the previous movie, we can ignore their choices in the conclusion. Right?? Right? Tell me I'm right

[sad-stucky-shipper-107]

I apologize in advance for spamming the tags but I just had a cursed thought and I need you all to also think about this:

Ik some of us don't really like to acknowledge the sequels but Palpatine rlly said trans rights lmfao when he was tryna transfer his consciousness into Rey's body, like man simply did not give a fuck the body he was trying possess was female.

[snipsnipsnippy]

Can I just talk about Leia’s lightsaber? For probably a long time..

First, I want to say aesthetically she’s gorgeous. She’s so unique. She’s so sleek. She looks like a Jedi masterpiece.

But goddamn does she suck to use.

So to start from the top, we see this beautiful legacy through Leia’s saber. We have the thin neck and rings calling back to Obi-Wan/Luke’s second saber and the vertical grips calling back to Anakin/Luke/the “Skywalker saber”. And we’re told it’s made of silver and copper with mother of pearl?! which just screams Padmé and Breha to me. I love how certain details of a character’s lineage pass through their sabers. Just beautiful.

And obviously because I love Leia and her lightsaber is beautiful I bought one of these but specifically to use, not to display. And oh boy. The amount of blood I have spilled on this saber is terrible, and no I don’t mean hurting someone else. This is my own literal actual blood from getting sliced and diced by this hilt.

Because those vertical grips are the worst ever idea to put on a handheld weapon. The reason they worked on Anakin’s is because they’re straight and thick and chunky and, most importantly, blunt. The whole feminizing sleek-ifying thing they did with Leia’s - while stunning - renders it useless because the grip is curved and those edges and corners are all hard and sharp. One slip, and it will slice your hand. Not to mention just all over make it uncomfortable to use.

And this is one of those beautifully deep things Star Wars has just stumbled into creating because I don’t think it was ever intended or thought about much more than making a pretty prop.

But it is absolutely poetic that Leia’s lightsaber, representing her journey into the Force, is genuinely something that causes her pain despite bringing her closer to her family. Her entire history with the Force is written into this one tool, which she built with her own hands, and yet wielding this tool is only going to harm her and lead her down a painful and treacherous path that no amount of skill or care can save her from. And for her then to walk away from this because it is too difficult to bear or because her family was telling her that her role is elsewhere in a field that she loves that loves her back is just the most perfectly illustrated piece of Leia’s story.

In short, I absolutely hate this lightsaber, but because of that, I absolutely love the story it tells.

[raisedbythetv89]

IM ILL 😭😭😭😭

She knows this will hurt him. She knows this will make him feel betrayed. She hates that she has to do this to him because she knows he’s not the monster he pretends to be but he’s still not the person he needs to be in order for them to be together.

A cornerstone of Rey’s personality is she doesn’t give up, no matter how hopeless something seems so to be giving up on her other half and leaving him with the first order is heartbreaking for her. She’s not only devastated at the loss of Ben Solo, her other half, but for what she knows this will do to him and that he will view this as a betrayal.

And we can see so clearly what it does to him written all over his face 😭 he’s so hurt and confused, he thought there was no way she wouldn’t see things his way and that she knew they belonged together no matter what so he can’t believe she’s fighting to get away from him again and just UGGGHHHH

And how initially he is FURIOUS, firing on the falcon all his big talk of destroying her, and luke and everything while she is initially just so sad this is the way things have gone but by the time we get into TROS Rey’s sadness and disappointment turns into RAGE and she is furious with him for keeping them apart and not coming back to the resistance with her.

GUH 😭 when she lays eyes on him again at the end of TLJ we see her take a few deep breaths and he looks hopeful when she does it meaning he can feel her sadness, her regret, her pain, her resolve waiver for just a moment before she puts on this mask of indifference and just looks SO disappointed in him.

While for him, once his anger burns out and he sees her again he’s just utterly devastated and filled with regret and you can see he’s disappointed with himself too 😭

The chemistry and acting talent of these two is insane but the experience of what it’s like to fall in love with someone who’s not ready to love you and how painful it is to walk away from that person when you realize it is captured so beautifully and so devastatingly I’m so heartsick about it 😭

[intergalactic-cutie-pie]

All this right here

NOT MY EDIT. CREDITS TO THE AUTHOR!!!

[myfandomrambles]

The fact that the disaster lineage produces multiple sith lords multiple hermits and multiple people who left the faith is kind of terrible and funny.

I think maybe we should blame Yoda. Like it was just generational fuckery so like it's Yoda's doing for reals. I mean thinking down the line there were a lot of mistakes made.

Like I love these stupid little space wizards but I think we should blame Yoda tbh

[david-talks-sw]

Luke Skywalker in 'The Last Jedi' (1/2)

Luke in The Last Jedi... love it or hate it, it's a difficult subject.

I personally stand somewhere in the middle. I don't think Luke was "ruined"... I'd argue that, from a purely in-universe perspective, his subplot actually tracks with what was previously established in the original films.

There are issues, but I think they are mainly found on an out-of-universe/structural level (which I'll get into in post 2/2). For now, let's take a deep dive and unpack why this portrayal isn't all that problematic.

The most commonly-heard argument is that:

"They ruined Luke's character! He would never go into exile or abandon his sister and friends!"

Simply put, Luke used to be:

an optimist

so brave he'd risk his life to save his friends,

aspired to become a Jedi.

Whereas, in The Last Jedi, he's:

jaded and depressed,

hides/abandons his sister and friends, like a coward,

says the Jedi need to die?!

Now the fact is... Luke is 24 years older when he goes into exile, 30 years older in The Last Jedi. People change, with age.

In Luke's case, he matured from an impatient kid who'd rashly run to save his friends, like in Empire Strikes Back, to a grown-up who makes hard choices and restrains himself from doing that, even though he desperately wants to.

Luke tells himself this is a self-sacrifice, this is for the greater good.

"Because he’s the last Jedi and a symbol of that it then becomes this self-sacrifice, he has take himself out of it, when he knows his friends are dying, when the thing he’d most like to do is get back in the fight." - Rian Johnson, The Empire Film Podcast, 2018

And Rian Johnson didn't want Luke to come across as a coward, so he also gave Luke an argument that initially seems to make sense:

The Jedi way is flawed and inevitably leads to arrogance. Proof: the Sith originally came from Jedi. His own new order is no exception to that rule, even if he thought it was (in his arrogance, he believed his own legend).

So if he leaves and stays in exile? No more Jedi, no more Jedi-turned-darksiders that can mess up the galaxy.

The Force will keep trying to balance itself and a new, worthier source will appear (in the form of Rey).

But while his reasoning that "the Jedi are inevitably arrogant" seems sound and reasonable... it's wrong.

Just like Dooku's reasoning that "the Jedi are corrupt" seems sound, but is ultimately wrong.

Just like Anakin's rationalization that "the Jedi are evil" seems sound nope, that one doesn't even seem sound, it's just plain wrong.

Where is it wrong, in Luke's case?

Well, he's rationalizing his actions by blaming the Jedi religion, instead of admitting his own failure.

"The notion of, 'Nope, toss this all away and find something new,' is not really a valid choice, I think. Ultimately, Luke's exile and his justifications for it are all covering over his guilt over Kylo." - Rian Johnson, The Art of The Last Jedi, 2017

"In his own way, [Luke is] trying to disconnect, he’s trying to throw away the past, he’s saying 'Let’s kill [the Jedi] religion. It’s the thing that’s messing us up, thins thing right here, let’s kill it.’ And the truth is, it’s a personal failure. It’s not religion, it’s his own human nature that’s betrayed him." - Rian Johnson, The Empire Film Podcast, 2018

He fucked up, plain and simple.

But it's not because “he’s a Jedi and that made him arrogant and the Jedi mentality is flawed”, as he claims early on in the movie.

He failed because he's flawed. Luke is human and had a moment of weakness where he was scared shitless and acted on instinct.

Yoda's spirit helps him realize this, and he fixes his mistake by allowing Leia and the resistance to save themselves. And as he does it, he acknowledges the importance of the Jedi and their teachings.

And it's also why, in The Rise of Skywalker, he has the maturity to admit that he wasn't staying on the island out of some self-sacrificial gesture, as he kept telling himself. Truth is, he was afraid. Afraid he'd screw up again.

Do the movies go about this in an emotionally-satisfying way? That's debatable. But, on paper, I don't think Luke's behavior in The Last Jedi is too much of a shark-jump considering how

THE ORIGINAL IDEA CAME FROM GEORGE LUCAS!

In the couple of months after the Disney sale, Lucas developed the Sequels with Michael Arndt in late 2012/early 2013, and concept art was made by artists like Christian Alzmann.

Note: the image on the left got a “Fabouloso” stamp of approval from Lucas!

Lucas’ sequels would feature a Luke Skywalker who was a figure like the jaded, reclusive Colonel Kurtz in the movie Apocalypse Now (which, fun fact, Lucas helped write and was originally set to direct).

The reason why Luke was in self-imposed exile wasn’t specified, all we know is that he was:

hiding from the world in a cave,

haunted by the betrayal of one of his students,

and spiritually in a dark place.

Other concept artists, like James Clyne, tried to illustrate the First Jedi Temple and some of the designs were approved by Lucas, such as the one below.

Eventually, Kira the female Jedi-wannabe protagonist (who eventually became Rey) would seek him out so he can train her.

This Luke would be a much more prominent part of Episode VII (instead of only appearing at the end) but still died at the end of Episode VIII.

For sources and more information about George Lucas’ plans for the Sequel Trilogy, read this post.

The only part that wasn't detailed by Lucas were the specifics of why he went into exile. But all in all, this sounds pretty similar to what we got in The Last Jedi.

"Luke would never try to kill Ben!”

I agree. And he didn’t try to kill Ben. He stopped himself.

And this version of the event?

This didn’t happen.

What Kylo tells Rey is his version of the story. And he thinks he’s telling the truth... but his recollection of the event is warped as this was obviously a very traumatic event for him.

"I don't think he's lying actually. In my mind, that was his experience. [...] I think that it's probably twisted a little bit by Kylo's own anger and his own prejudices against Luke, but I feel like he's actually telling her the truth of his experience." - Rian Johnson, Star Wars: The Last Jedi commentary, 2017

The narrative frames the third version of the story as the one that’s objectively how events went down. Because Rey believes him, and Rey is both the protagonist and a stand-in for the audience.

Now, if you think Luke’s word is unreliable and you have an easier time trusting Kylo’s version of the story, go to town.

But I think that if you actually believe would Luke would never try to kill Ben, you’d take Luke's second retelling of the story at face value.

I know I do.

“Okay, but he would never consider killing a child, like Ben. He saw the good in Darth Vader!”

First off, Luke refers to Ben as "a scared boy" because, he's a middle-aged man. But objectively, Ben was 23 years old.

But also, I mean... with Vader, Luke actually had the luxury ignorance.

Do you think would have truly gone on that Second Death Star if he had actually witnessed Vader:

choke his Padmé,

kill Obi-Wan,

actively try to kill Ahsoka,

murder Jedi younglings,

betray and hunt down his other Jedi brothers and sisters,

and cold-bloodedly kill countless innocents, one by one?

There’s a difference between watching him kill Ben Kenobi (who still ‘lived’ as a ghost and talked to him seconds later) and hearing a couple of rebel pilots get blasted in the trench run, and actually seeing all the horrors he’s committed.

Don't get me wrong, Luke knows Vader is evil, absolutely. But if he had seen this side of Vader, the needlessly cruel side...

... I'm not sure he'd have been as compassionate.

Proof: Obi-Wan, someone who deeply loved Anakin (to the point where he could never bring himself to kill him), someone that genuinely wishes that Luke can redeem him... also feels that, realistically, attempting to do so would be pointless.

And hell, even without really seeing all the massacres Vader committed, the second the latter threatened his sister, Luke went berserk and almost killed him!

So the question becomes:

“What could make Luke - trained Jedi Master, long-time optimist and overall compassionate to a fault - consider killing Ben?”

All we’re told is that he looked into Ben’s mind and saw darkness and the destruction, pain, death, and the end of everything he loves.

The specifics are left to our imagination. They could include:

the sight of Kylo slaughtering his parents and Chewie with a smile on his blood-smeared face,

the smell of Han's burning flesh in the air,

the wails of Chewbacca as he's run through by Kylo,

the faint sound of Leia's tears hitting the ground,

the destruction of the New Republic's citizens and planets.

Whatever it may have been, it was intense. Because Force-induced visions are vivid as hell, as has been shown throughout the franchise.

It's not like watching something on a TV, you're there, all your senses are affected in an extremely powerful way.

And the vision Luke experienced scared him so much that even shortly after it, when looking at a sleeping young man, all he sees is that evil monster from the vision. So he tremblingly draws his saber.

But it's evident that Luke wasn't thinking clearly or rationally.

His base emotions had taken the wheel, he was being tempted by the Dark Side.

"He doesn’t give in to the Dark Side, it’s a moment of temptation to the Dark Side. It reminds me very much of when Vader is tempting Luke, when Luke is underneath the stairs in [Return of the] Jedi, lit with that very beautiful half-and-half, the duality of these two sides of him being pulled. And that’s really what that moment is for me, it’s a moment of temptation to the Dark Side for Luke." - Rian Johnson, IGN, 2017

And yet despite seeing all that... Luke catches himself.

It's not the first time that Luke almost does something horrible to a family member and catches himself. Again, 24 years prior, he almost murdered his own father in a fit of rage.

The scene in Ben's hut intentionally parallels that outburst he has in Return of the Jedi.

A terrible future is presented before Luke.

He reacts instinctively, is tempted by the Dark Side.

He snaps out of it.

Even the angle and framing of the shot is designed to match:

"Some of these parallels are just “it’s a close-up of the same character” but this one was very intentional. It’s why I had him look down at his mechanical hand holding the saber." - Rian Johnson, Twitter, 2019

The only real difference is that, in Return of the Jedi, Luke only comes to his senses after a frenzied onslaught during which he actively tried to kill his own Dad.

24 years later, despite having witnessed that terrible future even more vividly than he did on the Second Death Star, he catches himself merely seconds later. Instead of going on a whole rampage, he stops the moment the lightsaber turns on.

I'd call that "progress".

"But Luke should've learned his lesson and known better than to give in to the Dark Side!"

Resisting the temptation of the Dark Side is by no means a one-and-done thing. It's not a power-up that you get, it's a constant struggle.

"I think it disrespects the character of Luke by treating him not as a true mythic hero overcoming recurring wounds & flaws, but as a video game character who has achieved a binary, permanent power-up." - Rian Johnson, Twitter, 2019

Dave Filoni says so too.

"In the end, it’s about fundamentally becoming selfless, moreso than selfish. It seems so simple, but it’s so hard to do. And when you’re tempted by the dark side, you don’t overcome it once in life and then you’re good. It’s a constant." - Dave Filoni, Rebels Remembered, 2019

Hell, even George Lucas stated something along those lines:

"The Sith practice the dark side and are way out of balance. The Jedi aren’t as much out of balance because they’re the light side of the Force. They still have the bad side of the Force in them, but they keep it in check. It’s always there, so it can always erupt if you let your guard down." - George Lucas, The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005, 2020

Learning the lesson once doesn't mean you've learned it forever. Especially with the Dark Side, which poses a never-ending battle.

In-universe examples: Anakin learned to let go of his attachments during the “Padawan Lost” arc of TCW.

A year and a half later, he’s butchering kids because he can’t let go of his attachments.

And during wartime, Yoda found himself repressing his darker instincts and ignoring their existence. Thus, when he had to face them, he struggled to acknowledge and control them.

So considering Luke didn't go "rampage mode" with Ben, as he did when he tried to kill Vader, I think he deserves some credit.

Finally, I've heard this insane argument many times, as a response to the above points:

"Yeah but Luke wasn't actually trying to kill Vader! He was holding back, he was trying to keep him alive!"

And, uh... no. He wasn't.

He lost his shit, folks. And almost killed Vader.

Like, right here?

⬆️ If Vader hadn’t moved his saber to intercept Luke’s blade, Luke would’ve stabbed Vader in the face.

⬆️ If Vader hadn’t held his sword up in time, SWISH, there goes the top of his helmet AT LEAST, if not the rest of his head.

⬆️ If Vader hadn’t dodged he’d be chopped in two.

⬆️ If Vader’s arm gave out slightly sooner, if his blade faltered just a little lower, if he loosened his grip on his saber a bit, Vader would be cleaved in two.

My point is that if you swing at someone with a lightsaber? They’ll get chopped. And if you aim for the head or the chest? You’re trying to kill them.

Before Luke got a grip, throughout that whole rampage, the only thing that kept Vader alive was his own skill.

Otherwise, Luke would’ve murdered him in a fit of rage.

If Luke was holding back, then the theme of "resisting the Dark Side" completely falls apart.

There's no indication that he was restraining himself, in he script.

And just look at the imagery.

Luke is surrounded by darkness, symbolizing how he's being seduced by the Dark Side, he's being tempted to give in to his anger towards the man who hurt his friends and took his hand.

Then Vader threatens Leia.

And the next time we see Luke, he's silhouetted, his face is all black.

Luke was originally trying to hold back and talk Vader down, but fails to control his instincts and gives in to fear, to anger, to the Dark Side... and goes all out.

He swings at his father furiously and keeps swinging, until he cuts off Vader's hand... and he is about to deliver the final blow…

… when he sees Vader’s mechanical hand and realizes that by giving in to his anger, that path will inevitably lead him to become exactly like this half-machine half-man laying at his feet. That’s where the path to power leads.

And so he makes a decision:

He’s a Jedi. Like his father before him. His compassion for Anakin is stronger than his hate for Vader.

That's the narrative intent.

It has to be.

Because if he had been "holding back" throughout that entire bit, then the stakes are lowered immeasurably, John Williams' saddening score is misplaced, the lightsaber choreography is misleading, etc.

For the above-listed reasons, I think Luke's portrayal in The Last Jedi doesn't really contradict anything in the previously-established lore. It works, it's the typical "old cowboy needs to get back in the saddle" trope. Frankly, I can defend this subject all day long... so where's the problem?

The problem comes in at an out-of-universe level. While it's not inconsistent... it's also not satisfying.

The thing is, if you...

... take one of the most brave and optimistic characters in the franchise, then open the film saying "well, now he's jaded and in hiding", without giving us context on how he became that way...

... take a character whose arc was specifically about controlling his emotions, then show him be ruled by those emotions without providing context for what made him do that...

... then that kills the suspension of disbelief, for a lot of fans.

And, as such, they'll have a much harder time going along with what you're saying.

Because "show, don't tell" is one of the most basic principles in visual storytelling. And we weren't shown:

"Ben being increasingly violent during training",

"Luke sitting Ben down and having a talk with him, only to be ignored" or

"the horrors Luke saw in Ben's head".

I have no doubt that those things happened, in-universe.

But if we're talking about a movie-going experience, many were left emotionally-unsatisfied.

Because all that stuff was in there... but only subtextually. It was up to the fans to imagine on the details. Normally, I'd argue that's what Star Wars is all about: allowing fans to dream and think outside the box. But in this specific case, I think many fans would've rather had a more complete and explicit story. Because it's Luke Skywalker.

And yet... even these structural and writing issues had a logic behind them, and if you ask me... there was no other direction that this story could be taken in.

We'll explore this in more detail in part 2/2.

[a-manda-lorian]

I don’t know about y’all, but I have been perpetually disappointed in franchise/series endings for years now. Is fandom the problem??? Like, we all get on here and theorize and come up with bangin’ meta… and then the writers give us a steaming pile of 💩 for the actual film/show/book ending… How are the fans better at coming up with amazing story ideas while the people making the big bucks are making lousy stories??? All these things that end up in story for us to analyze can’t just be accidents, but then why do they never get fleshed out and come to a logical conclusion???

I’m just confused. Should we stop doing this, hyping ourselves up and setting unrealistic expectations on story writers…?

I feel like I’m being punked… where’s Ashton????

[thewayofthetrashcompactor]

Showing young Ben as thinking "maybe the Empire was right" is just such a fundamental misunderstanding of his storyline and what happened to him. He had the literal star wars personification of evil inside his head from a young age (originally shown in the comics, confirmed on screen in tRoS), telling him that maybe he was evil too, that the people around him knew it. And unintentionally, they play into that, even when they're trying to do their best for him: Leia sends him to train with Luke, hoping her brother who's spent years studying the Force, one of the only people she can trust, will be able to help her son who is struggling with elements she has no experience with, and Palpatine is there to whisper in Ben's mind that this is rejection, they're sending him away because they know he's evil and hate him for it. Luke tries to treat him as equal, and Palpatine is there giving the same explanation of rejection. All this building up to Luke standing over him with his saber, because he's seen the people he loves dying because of this kid, and it's the final confirmation for Ben that everything Palpatine has ever told him is true, that the people who should love him want him dead.

And it's a tragedy, because Leia and Luke (and Han) had no idea what they were fighting against, had no way to understand what was really happening to Ben, and Palpatine has been haunting the Skywalkers since the beginning, taking everything that should've been good in them and twisting it for himself. Ben is an echo of Anakin, where Palpatine was able to speak into the ear of the chosen one and corrupt all his potential because he always has a plan far beyond what the heroes can see. And to heal the wound from Palpatine, Ben should've been able to live free of his influence, but Palpatine succeeded in killing every single one of his family in the end and that's the tragedy we're met with.

But yeah. Positioning Ben as this contrary kid who's taking an edgy political stance to be contrary has nothing to do with his actual character or arc. He never shows any interest in the politics of the First Order throughout the movies or additional material. Maybe you're thinking of Hux.

[curlytheintrovert]

Why I Love Reylo (Pt.2)

(My old post for reasons unknown got deleted😭)

One of my other favorite parts of this couple is that they are atypically gender reversed. It’s one of the many reasons this ship is so intriguing and unique compared to others. Let me explain. Typically in most hetero romances the man is the abrasive, closed off one at first and is generally a prickly little shit. While the girl is typically softer, a little more compassionate and open minded. This not the case with Rey and Kylo.

Rey’s first interaction with Kylo is shooting a blaster at him multiple times in succession. Granted she does have a Force vision of Kylo at Maz’s which makes her justifiably hostile and afraid of him. During the interrogation scene Kylo reads her mind and speaks her thoughts out loud: she wants to kill him. Rey calls him a creature in a mask and angrily tells him to get out of her head. And then proceeds to spit Kylo’s greatest fear back in his face with such venom. I love how she snarls: “You. You’re afraid.”

Kylo on the other hand only defends himself from her blasts and force stops her from shooting any further. He gently says: “The girl I’ve heard so much about.” Kylo easily could have dragged her away or thrown her into the hands of the troopers beside him—but instead he makes Rey sleep and scoops her up into his arms bridal style. In the interrogation room Kylo sees Rey’s fear and says she’s his guest. He takes off his mask. Then explains things calmly—never raising his voice above a murmur. The curiosity about her is strong as Kylo probes her mind and the responses to what he finds there are emotional. I love so much how he says “Don’t be afraid, I feel it too.” It just feels so incredibly kind considering the circumstances—like that was the first little glimpse of Ben we got.

The shift that happens when Rey uses the force back on Kylo is what really sets the tone for the rest of their relationship. Rey attacks and responds negatively—Kylo gently deflects and tries to connect. If you watch throughout the rest of the films this dynamic doesn’t really change. Almost all of their force bonds in TLJ are similar: Rey being barbarous and Kylo being benign. A majority of their saber fights are like this too—Kylo plays defense, is hesitant to pull out his saber multiple times or looks like he’s doesn’t want to fight her period.

See what I mean?! Rey is hostile and prickly—Kylo is open minded and gentle.

The other gender swapped aspect is that in a way Kylo is the damsel of this pairing. He’s trapped far away, lonely and miserable, in a figurative tower. Rey fights Luke for his cause and goes to rescue and save him if she can. But I also see Kylo as an emotional damsel too. He’s so lost, and hurt and twisted. Rey offers him a way back—she’s the only one who can—and in the long run is the very reason he is able to become Ben Solo again. But it’s when Rey lets her guard down and mellows her prejudice that their relationship flourishes. Kylo/Ben is already ready and waiting to love and be loved…

Man, this pairing is complex and fun to analyze!

[allgirlsareprincesses]

Do you think that Rey's story (excluding episode 9 'cause that was a shitshow) could be interpreted as a Cinderella/Ash girl story?

I hope you realize asking me this is like throwing chum to a shark 😈. But the short answer is yes, to a point.

The long answer is more complicated, so to begin with, let's consult the Cinderella bible:

According to the Aarne Thompson Uther Index, there are five primary motifs to a Cinderella tale:

Persecuted heroine, usually by family

Help or helper, usually magic

Meeting the prince, usually with true identity disguised

Identification or penetration of disguise, usually by means of an object

Marriage to the prince

Rey is abandoned by her family, which is a form of persecution, and harassed by the inhabitants of Jakku like Unkar Plutt. Thus she clearly fulfills the first item.

As for meeting a helper, there are several for her, including Han Solo, Maz, Luke, and Leia. Any or all of these may be considered fairy godparents in the way that they offer her wisdom and material help. Further, except for Maz, they all die in the course of the story, which is consistent with many Cinderella tales in which the helper dies and their bones continue to offer wisdom and comfort to the heroine.

Next, meeting the prince. I mean

To the extent that Rey is "in disguise' here, it would be the extent of her force powers, her destiny as Ben Solo's dyad mate, and her role as the heir apparent to the Jedi (chosen by the Force to wield the legacy saber), all of which are obscured from Kylo Ren when he discovers her in the forest. Further, she is grimy and covered in desert sand, similar to how Cinderella is smeared with ashes that hide her true beauty.

So now an object penetrates the disguise. This is obviously the Skywalker lightsaber, which reveals Rey to be everything listed above, especially when she calls it to her on Starkiller Base, and again when she wields it on Ahch-to.

And lastly, marriage to the prince. As many others have pointed out over the years, Rey and Ben have almost too many symbolic marriages to count in the course of the sequel trilogy. They're extremely married, the Force said so.

BUT WAIT! Go back and look at that list again. Who ELSE fits all those criteria?

It's our boy! Consider:

He is indeed persecuted by family, most notably when Luke momentarily considers killing him.

Ben's helpers are both dark and light, as Snoke/Palpatine guide him in the dark while Luke guides him in the light (poorly). But note again what I said above about the bones of the mentor continuing to offer guidance and comfort after their death. Who should appear at Ben's lowest hour but his departed father, Han Solo? With a message of love, acceptance, and encouragement, Han's memory (because in fairy tales, bones contain memory) encourages Ben to at last cast off his beastly skin and become who he always was.

Next, meeting the prince/ss in disguise. He's wearing a literal mask when he meets Rey, so yeah.

An object penetrates the disguise? Rey slashed his face with the legacy saber, thus symbolically peeling away his mask. And I've argued before that the stabbing in TROS (which I still HATE, btw) is another cutting or burning away of the beastly skin.

And lastly, marriage to the prince/ss. As previously stated, that happened. Many times.

So yes, the Sequel Trilogy can definitely be considered a Cinderella story, with but one glaring issue: Cinderella's husband usually doesn't die at the end. But that's another topic that's been done to death, so let's all just read some more fanfic and forget about it. 👑 Thank you for the ask, this was fun!

[kylosbreedingkink]

The big takeaway from Hyperspace Stories is that Kylo still feels the light so strongly that it completely blindsided him and beckoned him to go help someone he barely even likes.

He was so hyper fixated on this Force presence he felt that he was ready to kill for it, just for the Force to intervene and give him the sense that someone he was supposed to be working with was in danger.

This isn't the first time this has been shown to happen. It is also the only thing that Snoke can be referring to as the Light distracting him. If we go by the idea that the Light is inherently selfless and the Dark is selfish - him stopping what he was doing due to go help someone is a very Light sided thing to do.

Which is exactly what we know of Kylo. Someone struggling between the Light and the Dark, feeling it tear him in two ways. So much of his life had been given up for the Light, that selflessness in helping other, doing what others want for him, that his constant desire to do what he wants for himself (or believes he wants for himself, at least) is the only rebellion he has, and is his link to the Dark.

But despite being so entrenched in the Dark, despite being so strong in it, the Light still beckons him and he can't help but follow its call.

I also wonder a bit on this exact scenario - he used to teach at Luke's school. No doubt he went off on trips with students and no doubt he learned to keep a general feel of where the students were, making sure they were safe and not in trouble. Exactly the sort of skill that a teacher of the Force would use. This ability is probably so well honed that he can't turn it off, so Hux's ego-driven bullshit and that inherent Light sided selflessness dragged him from his desire in this moment.

The comic ends how this post begins, Snoke commenting on the Light in Kylo. Though interestingly, despite telling him he should have focused more on his own desire in the Dark and found out what the Force presence was instead of the Light sided need to help a comrade, Snoke is not aggressive about it. He seems accepting that this is a part of his student, almost resigned to it. Many times Snoke has used violence in his training of Kylo, but in this instance where Kylo has used the light, he simply tells him to try and snuff it out.

There is no anger here from Snoke at Kylo for not succeeding due to the Light, when Snoke has shown anger at Kylo for many other things.

[artist-issues]

The characterizations for those first two Star Wars Sequels movies were Plain Good. Poe, Finn, and Rey were delightful to get to know! They were likeable people! It’s so nice to rewatch them and relive the fun of when Star Wars was coming out in theaters again.

Poe - In The Force Awakens, he’s a cocky hotshot who keeps making the hero-move against impossible odds. Sending his defenseless droid into a desert so he can take on the bad guys single-handedly? No problem. Fly a ship he’s never flown before with a Stormtrooper he just met to escape capture? Totally calm about that. He’s comfortable living in the moment and taking big risks. After all, he’s serving directly under Leia, Savior of the Galaxy, champion of the free world; he’s walking with giants, he’s got to act like it! And then in The Last Jedi he has to learn to stop doing that. Be a leader. Leaders look at the big picture, and focus on how to move forward instead of just saving the day in the moment. He can’t keep being cocky and reckless. Taking a stand against a Dreadnaught and facing down the First Order with cocky quips? Easy. But letting others make the sacrifice play while you live to lead, so the galaxy can go on hoping, and fight another day? Not so easy for Poe.

Finn - In The Force Awakens he’s a Stormtrooper who wants to run away from fights. He’s got a compassionate streak, sure; he doesn’t want to kill, and when he escapes, he likes to do it in the company of people who talk to him like he’s more than a number in an army list. But the point is, he’s out to save his own skin, and the skin of anybody who’s good to him. Then he learns to stop running and start fighting for something worthwhile. He starts to learn that by the end of that first movie when he’s running into danger and fighting for Rey. But it’s not until The Last Jedi that he understands: fighting isn’t the point. (And how great is that in Star Wars?) After all, even when he’s fought, it’s just to escape. He doesn’t really believe evil can be defeated—just escaped or sacrificed against. But in The Last Jedi, he learns to stop looking at it negatively, and start looking forward; don’t just fight for things that you love, or to hurt what you hate. Fight to save what you love. Actually focusing on what you love is what helps you to accomplish keeping it safe. It’s a stormtrooper learning about hope.

Rey - UAGH she’s a lonely soul who’s dedicated her whole life to having faith that her family will come back for her when you meet her in The Force Awakens. She hangs all her identity on that; she’s nobody, from nowhere, hoping that someone will come back and tell her who she is and that she’s loved. It doesn’t matter if a brave Resistance Hero believes she can help him, or if THE Smuggler Han Solo believes she can be part of his crew, or if a thousand year-old wise woman believes she could be the heir to the Luke Skywalker Legend—Rey can’t settle for their belief in her. She thinks she needs her parents’ belief in her to be somebody. But she learns that, even though her family isn’t with her, The Force is. And she needs to find belonging ahead, not behind. So her faith dips it’s toe into a new object—The Force— by the time you get to The Last Jedi. Then she’s still hoping to find out that she’s somebody who’s loved; maybe The Force can be her key to finding out about where she belongs and how she fits. She thinks it’s led her to remind Luke Skywalker of who he is by doing what he did; redeeming the bad guy. But she fails. And that’s all she really learns: that it’s not about her, and it never was, just like it was never about Luke. She doesn’t need to find her identity in where she comes from or who believes in her: she just needs to do the right thing for the future.

And we could talk about Kylo Ren but he gets a post of his own.

Point being, these movies had characters and a direction that were Plain Good and going somewhere, and if I go back and watch them, I remember how fun it all was

[minamorsart]

Happy holidays to you 🎄🎁🌟❤️

*whispers* , who do you think deserves better

Lotor or Ben Solo/Kylo Ren

First of all: thank you so much! Happy Holidays to you, too!! I hope you are enjoying this holiday season with your loved ones 🎄🎀☃️💖

And second of all: NOOOO Anon how could you make me choose??! 😭😂😂

My gut reaction is to say both of them, but that's not really the answer we're looking for here, is it? Hehe. So I have tried to seriously consider this and provide a sincere answer to your question.

A quick heads up, I will be mentioning reylo and lotura here and there throughout this little essay!

The most fun part about comparing Ben and Lotor I think comes from the fact that these two are suuuuper similar to one another. I covered this a tiny bit in this ask where I talk about how protective the two of them are, but to reiterate:

Both Lotor and Ben are from sci-fi/fantasy franchises that were released around the same time, both have troubled relationships with their fathers, both are great swordsmen and pilots and engineers, both murdered their fathers, have complicated childhoods, rarely show their true faces to others, killed their dads, fell in love with fierce and powerful women, kissed said fierce and powerful women before shortly dying afterwards, said bye-bye to papa by doin a lil stabby stab, became intergalatic leaders of the most powerful empires in the universe -- oh, and did I mention daddy issues? You tend to find that a lot with long-haired emo boys from fiction. It's just the way it is. And for these two in particular you can also sprinkle in a little "mommy issues" just for funsies.

But in all seriousness, Lotor and Ben share a LOT in common, which is pretty crazy! So who deserves better, really? In order to make a fair judgment my first thought was to take into account their crimes and if they were able to redeem themselves in the end. But this is also fiction. As soon as people slap the label "toxic" on a character or ship, I usually tend to tune them out. This is by no means a hot take, but fiction is a form of escapism. It is a way for people to experience a thing (e.g. horror, adventure, romance) without actually having to experience it. So if we have a couple of sad boys who murder and manipulate people but also want to find love, who's gonna stop us from rooting for them? Absolutely no one!

I digress, but my point is that I usually don't care which character did what and why they're a bad person for it. But even then were Ben and Lotor really all that bad? After all, we learned from "The Rise of Kylo Ren" comics that Ben was ultimately not the one responsible for destroying Luke's Jedi school, and in TROS we found out that he was being manipulated by Palpatine the entire time.

For Lotor, we never really got a clear picture of what exactly he was doing with that Altean colony. To this day I still don't get it! In S6E6 he says, "Many Alteans perished in my quest to unlock the mysteries of quintessence." But then in S8E13 Allura says, "Lotor may have been misguided, but ultimately he wanted to preserve life." Like, what does any of that mean?? There are cracks in the armor, Anon! Cracks!!! Not to mention all of the theories with very convincing evidence that there were a ton of changes made to season 8, and unfortunately I don't think we're ever going to get a solid answer from the showrunners as to what was really supposed to happen.

In the end, the complicated and morally gray choices that Lotor and Ben made throughout their lives are what make their characters so interesting! They did the wrong things for what they believed to be the right reasons. If they didn't come across as the mysterious and devious fellas as they did when we first saw them, we wouldn't be such big fans of them. We would've chosen someone else 😉

So any bad deeds aside, maybe we oughta take a step back and do one last comparison. Most notably, comparing how they died. Ben died saving the person he loved, while Lotor died fighting the person he loved. I would have to argue that Lotor's death was far more gruesome and superfluous than Ben's. Not only did he go mad from all of the raw quintessence coursing through his body, but we find out in season 8 that his body had remained in his ship for three whole years, decayed and melted (seriously whose idea was it to share that imagery? I'm scarred for life) and left to sit there by his own mother.

Ben's passing was also deeply upsetting. I cried in the theater. But you can't deny that it was a peaceful one. From the way his body faded into nothingness, leaving beind only his clothes, the audience is able to assume that he became a Force Ghost (or did he? 🤔). He was battered and beaten, but he brought the woman he loved back to life, and in giving his life to her and helping her defeat Palpatine, he redeemed himself. And not only did he redeem himself, but he was also able to reconcile with both of his parents.

Lotor didn't get to do either of those things. He never got the chance. He was manipulated by both of his parents, and he never had the opportunity to redeem himself on his own terms. You know, for someone who directly influenced the entirety of season 8's plot, Lotor is hardly in it! I suppose he sort of redeemed himself, at least in Allura's eyes, but he was long gone by then. He wasn't around to see any of the stuff going on in season 8, stuff happening specifically FOR him because his mother wanted him back. In season 6 he went out like your average cartoon villain--dying because of his own hubris while the heroes looked on. In season 8 we only get: a flashback episode, him showing up in Allura's bedroom ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°), and him copied and pasted into the background as a ghost in the finale, almost like something is amiss in this scene (cracks in the armor, Anon!!!). UGH. You hate to see it.

But at the same time, I'm not too upset that Lotor died if I'm being completely honest with you. At least not anymore, anyway. Don't get me wrong, at the time I cried when his death was confirmed, and then I cried again when Allura died. But at least they get to be together in the afterlife. Ben had a lot going for him. He was only 30 years old when he died, and that's still very young. He could have had a long, happy life with Rey, and to truly redeem himself in the eyes of the resistance, could have devoted his time to restoring peace and order to the galaxy, as well as teach the new generation of Force-wielders alongside Rey.

Lotor, on the other hand, was 10,000 years old. The idea of having lived that long is not only unfathomable, but the fact that he probably spent most of that time being completely alone is just... really, really sad. If I were him I would have been ready to kick the bucket, too. I think the kindest thing to do for him at that point was to give him a peaceful, as well as justified, departure in the series finale. Allura had suffered as well. She had lost everything, just like him, so the two of them finding peace in the afterlife would be the most merciful conclusion, I believe.

Soooo I'm gonna cheat again with my answer 😂 Who deserves better? I would say BOTH of them deserve better, but in different ways. Ben Solo deserved to live, while Lotor deserved a better death.

Thank you so much for this question, Anon! I really had to think a lot about this one, and even though in the end I couldn't actually choose between the two, I still enjoyed coming up with this long-winded answer haha! If you have any further insights you would like to add, or if you even disagree with any of the things I've said, please don't hesitate to say so! I am always happy to discuss anything Ben or Lotor-related 😁 My love for these boys knows no bounds 💖