#Because of Jiang Cheng or Yu Ziyuan I don't know

[slythmultishipper]

Jiang Cheng: a-die. Why does a-niang wear makeup?

Jiang Fengmian: to look pretty.

JC: but she's already pretty.

JC: a-die you should wear makeup.

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

No time to play. You are being sent away.

[First] Prev <–-> Next

[khattikeri]

one of my favorite things about mdzs is that for how heavily its plot involves politics of classism and misogyny... even the characters most directly impacted by it can't and don't free themselves from it. literally the closest exception is mianmian.

meng yao being the "son of a whore" wasn't some sort of commie awakening for him that led him to wanting everyone to be socially equal. he played the political game, climbed the ladders, sucked up to and backstabbed and murdered people, including other prostitutes who actually had nothing to do with how he and his mother were treated at the brothel he grew up in.

he put in so much extra excessive effort for even a fraction of the same respect that members of gentry cultivation clans got. and he did deserve to be treated more humanely! but he feeds into the exact same system that created him, leading to his own undoing.

his efforts were for a fragile upward mobility that was never going to hold up. he never surpassed his origins nor did he empower others in similar stations, because the society he lives in is not one that would accept that.

the second he got caught and all those crimes exposed, he was scapegoated to hell and back, replacing wei wuxian as society's terrible one-sidedly evil boogeyman overnight.

speaking of not-quite male gentry, i think it's interesting that wei wuxian explicitly doesn't try to climb the ladders in BOTH lives, knowing full well that anything he does will be punished just for the sheer fact that he is wei wuxian.

wei wuxian is scolded for giving intelligent and correct answers in school. lan wangji does the same and is praised.

wei wuxian occasionally lounges around with fellow disciples and is punished. jiang cheng does the same and mostly escapes.

wei wuxian refuses to carry his sword around in public (after losing his golden core, which nobody knows) and is scorned as an arrogant upstart. nie huaisang has been doing the EXACT SAME THING for YEARS and nobody bats an eye.

unlike jin guangyao, wei wuxian knew subconsciously from the start that his acceptance was superficial and that he could be cast out any time. when he was 10 and recently taken in by the jiangs, he canonically would not eat or use "too much" food and water because he thought they'd find him a nuisance for "wasting their things" and kick him back out.

now away from just the classism, yu ziyuan is a proud and strong noblewoman in a society that belittles and derides women for everything they do. her strong cultivation doesn't matter. she's victim to the vicious rumors of her husband loving another woman who is strong like her but apparently had a more likeable personality.

it doesn't matter even if jiang fengmian didn't cheat or that wei wuxian is wei changze's son with cangse sanren; yu ziyuan can't bear with the humiliation of herself (and by extension her children) not being "good enough". she's ridiculed for "failing" in that one duty as a wife, mother, and woman.

she lashes out and takes out that anger on everyone present for years, giving her children lasting trauma and also being a key element in how the jiang family and yunmeng jiang sect are effectively wiped out at the hands of the wen clan.

madam jin doesn't even have a name outside of the fact that she's married to jin guangshan. i don't even remember reading anything that indicates if she's a strong or weak cultivator, or what, which in itself proves that to most people, it doesn't matter. she's "just" a woman.

of course she's angry at her husband's affairs and all the bastard children they bring in. but she also can't do anything about them, so she lashes out at the few people she can: servants. non-cultivators, probably. those very same bastard children.

shoutout to meng yao getting shoved down a flight of stairs at age fourteen, because if madam jin tried that move against her husband instead, it would make her lose even more face, which as a noblewoman she'd never do.

and that's not getting into how jiang yanli is consistently sidelined for being physically weak.

that's not getting into how mianmian was actually a good cultivator, but was mocked by everyone around her for trying to stand up for wei wuxian when everyone was turning on him. how everyone scoffed at luo qingyang's words as "just some lovesick woman" who "obviously wants to marry or bed him since he saved her".

luo qingyang is the only one of these characters who HASN'T died. she didn't play society's games like jin guangyao. she didn't dig her heels in confidence of her own abilities like wei wuxian.

she didn't bitterly lash out like yu ziyuan and madam jin. she didn't gently accept it like jiang yanli.

she just LEFT.

she married an ordinary merchant and cultivates separately from mainstream cultivation society, and therein found her own peace and happiness.

mxtx doesn't bother with particularly class conscious or feminist vocabulary to hand-hold readers into understanding these disparities, but that choice highlights them & the deeply entrenched politics of their society even more. i really love it.

[wangxianficfinder]

Fic Finder

Apr 12th

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1. For the ficfinder: In the last "In the mood for", no 8 reminded me of a fic but I cant recall the one. Wwx is travelling by himself, writing letters to LZ, he stays in a town and it ends up cursed. LZ and the juniors arrive to solve the case. Wwx is acting weird and hides his letters. The juniors read the letters and find out wwx is angry and full of resentment about how he's been treated. They find out the curse resonates from him. They talk it out to resolve matters. It was written really well. Any idea? @kesterling

FOUND! i found it myself, it kept bugging me. The fic is sadly deleted but on the wayback machine: Dock of the Bay by Haysel.

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2. Hi! This is for Fic Finder. All I remember is the ending, where Yu Ziyuan had her arms cut off, and that there was a part that mentioned that this was punishment enough as she would have to live her life with no pride. Also, she had an affair with Jin Guangshan, and Jiang Cheng was his child, and she had to become his concubine, I think. Hope someone knows which fic this is!

FOUND? sounds like the deleted "OOC!" by A_flower_in_the_snow. It's avaiable on the wayback machine.

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3. Hi, once again.

I’m looking for a fic that I seriously can’t find, at all.

So it would really be a great help if you could.

Wwx was brought to cloud recesses for healing after madam yu had whipped him so bloody he couldn’t move and wa sin active danger of dying.

The disciples who brought him there did so on a donkey I think?

Anyway they asked LZ to please befriend Wwx.

The healers weren’t sure if Wwx would survive. He does.

And joins the lan, befriending LZ oh and he can’t fight with his sword anymore because of the damage and something about his heart having been weakened.

That is all I remember.

Have a nice day/night. @ravenwithwings

NOT FOUND!🔒🧡 rain falls and soaks into the earth series by RoseThorne (T, 57k, WangXian, WIP, Near Death Experience, Attempt Drowning, Madam Yu Bashing, Recovery, No war AU)

FOUND! 🧡 Company by WithBroomBefore (T, 29k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Pre-Relationship, Getting Together, POV LWJ, Fix-It, Pre-Canon, at least to start, WWX goes to Cloud Recesses, But Not In The Usual Way, fear of character death, Everybody Lives, Hurt/Comfort, Happy Ending, Light Angst, good teacher LQR, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, brief discussion of past minor character suicide, Kitten, Not YZY Friendly)

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4. Hi!! I'm looking for a fic I can't remember the name of, a modern AU, possibly set in the UK where lwj is part of some sort of anarchist/ community activist group and wwx joins. Most people in the group already know wwx and are reallly good friends with him but lwj is super skeptical about him. Also at some point I think wwx goes missing and lwj is super worried??? I can't remember anything else... thank you in advance🙏🙏🙏 @kavlobebeki

FOUND? now to begin the road by detectorist (E, 28k, WangXian, Modern AU, Pining, Miscommunication, Misunderstandings, Getting Together, Light Angst, Food as a Metaphor for Love, Activism, Politics, Rooftop Conversations)

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5. Hi, I'm wondering if anyone else remembers a fic similar to leading tone by silencemostofall, and pastel by antebunny, but that's set in the canon era while they're at Cloud Recesses? A few details I remember was that the coloured mark that indicated Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian's relationship started to fade, and that Jiang Cheng was allowed home to celebrate his birthday, while Wei Wuxian's was completely ignored by the Jiang Sect and so he spent it drinking and was caught by Lan Wangji. Apologies that I don't have more! @flaxenhairedsamurai

Hi, I was number 5 on the fic finder on April 12. Just letting you know I found the fic I was looking for! It was Mark Me With Your Devotion by an orphan account. Thank you, and I've bookmarked it so I don't lose it again!

FOUND! Mark me with your devotion by orphan_account (M, 18k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Soulmates, soulmate AU with a twist, The twist is not a curse though, I'm sorry but everyone is kind of toxic in this, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort, A-Yuan is adorable, First Time, Canon-typical Sex, Cultivation Partners, Fluffy wangxian, Nothing else is all that fluffy, Night-hunting together, Their studies are different that's why they keep going on missions and not staying in Gusu much)

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6. There was this fic on ao3 I don't remember, much, but it had this part, where lwj refused to go near his child(/children??) Because when wwx was pregnant he slowly grew ill or I dunno I think there was some complications (?) and when it was finally the time of delivery, wwx fell into coma I think. And lxc was angry with lwj for not even looking at his child / children when both wc were so excited for the baby.

There is a similar wx comic on Twitter. Can you please find both of them? The ao3 fic and the Twitter comic too please?

FOUND? I don’t know the Ao3 but I do know the comic similar to the description which made by AlasseTassir in twitter and they post it on their pixiv.

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7. A while back I found and lost 😥 a fic where WangXian, I think, were smuggling Wen Ning (and probably Wen Qing) across a border somewhere and they put a fake mustache on one of the two and people kept complimenting them on how nice it looked. I think people even copied the mustache after that? Maybe even the bad Wens? That's literally all I can remember about it. I've tried every tag I can think of and haven't been able to find it. Hopefully someone will know. TIA! @lilyinthesnow

FOUND! Bloom where you are planted by luckymoonly (M, 44k wangxian, MM/WQ, Canon Divergence, Fix It, courting, Mpreg, Sunshot Campaign, Fluff, Happy Ending, getting together early, Romance, WWX giving birth in the middle of the war? Most likely than you think!, Yúnmèng Siblings Feels, Smut, Drama, Blood and Violence, Minor Character Death, There Is Only One Bed, No Fall of Lotus Pier, Crossdressing, Shotgun Wedding, Mention of miscarriage (not WWX), wangxian Have a Breeding Kink, Giving Birth, Soft granduncle LQR)

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8. hii i need help finding a fic. I remember it is ongoing it is a time travel one where wei ying travels back to the past decides not to join the jiang sect but to be rouge i remember he stole gold from the sects which made the economy go to shit the emperor got involved and disbanded the wen sect wei ying is now rich he is studying to pass some exams he has a nice house with a mini farm meets lan zhan and they fall in love and we find out from lan qiren that wei ying is a royal bc his father was a prince but he ran away to be a servant to the jiang sect and sometime near the last chapters the emperor gives permission to wangxian to marry and to take with him some princes and princesses to raise away from the palace. @wangxian4evermdzs

FOUND? Starting Over by SplitGirl28 (M, 69k, WIP, Time Travel Fix-It, Back to Childhood, Change his life, Different lifestyle, But WWX is still gifted genius, Unrestrained WWX, Living his ideal life)

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9. Hi all! 👋 I am so sorry to bother you if you’ve already found this fic but I’ve scoured across the internet all day and decided to go ahead and ask anyway! I’m looking for a fic that has Wei Ying being adopted into the Lan clan as a child, he was scared to be kicked out and became rather solemn and a perfect lan clan member, on the other hand Lan Zhan has grown to be shameless and flirts with Wei Ying every chance he gets. There’s also some Jiang Bashing, OCs, and maybe some time travel? Help🥹

FOUND? could be the deleted "Uno Reverse" by A_flower_in_the_snow. It's on the wayback machine.

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10. Hello!! I swear I just read it and now I can't find this fic- but it's supposed to be an AU where wwx stayed behind during Lotus Pier's attack and Madam Yu and JC escaped but wwx stayed to fight, and lwj heard wwx was missing and he rushes to help wwx and he runs in JC and JY also trying to save wwx? Thank you in advance!

FOUND? for as long as he will let me by RavenclawLoki (T, 8k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Angst, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort, Hurt WWX, Love Confessions, Everyone Lives/Nobody Dies, First Kiss, BAMF JYL, WangXian Get a Happy Ending)

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11. Hi, thanks so much for all your efforts!!

I’ve been looking for a fic and hope it hasn’t been deleted. Wei Ying, Jiang Cheng, and Jiang Yanli were mermaids but were also semi-amphibious? They could go on land for short periods and they helped fight the Wens during the Sunshot Campaign. Wei Ying is married off to Lan Zhan and he lives in the Cloud Recesses. Most of the story is centered around Wei Ying adjusting to his life on the surface amongst humans and navigating the relationship with his new husband.

FOUND? you’re a bird in the water / i’m a fish on the ground by plonk (Not Rated, 8k, WangXian, Merpeople, Canon Era)

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12. Hi, can you help me find a fic . The story goes somewhat like Lan Wangji was in a nighthunt and had taken shelter in an inn . There was a storm, and Wei Ying came to that inn seeking shelter with a few orphan kids . Those kids and Wei Ying were both from the same, and they escaped from being sold ? I think Wangji was a bit older than Wei Ying. Also, Wei Ying could use his cultivation powers without any medium like swords or instruments. 🙏

FOUND? ❤️ Seen and not heard by eatmyass (E, 51k, wangxian, case fic, no sunshot, kid fic, dadxian, strangers to lovers, found family, LWJ pov, pining, fake/pretend relationship, first time, falling in love)

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13. Helppp! looking for a fic I read awhile ago and it just wont leave my mind, So basically Wangxian had an age gap LWJ was like 16 or 17 and WWX in his 20's but like "the cloud recesses" is some sort of mansion and the lotus siblings visit them in cloud recesses. I think it was tagged E if that helps

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14. Hi! For Fic Finder. Thank you very much for your help. There’s a fic I thought I bookmarked but can no longer find.

The first fic is a dark Lans fic set during the Cloud Recesses arc. WWX and JC are betrothed in this universe. But LWJ and WWX fall in love. LWJ manipulates the environment and JCs insecurities to break them up. I believe it’s in a two part series.

Thank you!

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15. Story of Yanxi Palace based fic. WY is the empress/consort who hides in a box from Sizhui. LZ knows he's inside the box, and as a prank/punishment, he uses the box to play a boardgames with Sizhui

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16. Hi! I really am looking for this story in AO3 and still can't find it. It was about Wei Wuxian who got married to Wen Chao but Lan Zhan couldn't take it so he plans to take Wei Wuxian back by claiming Wei Wuxian each time he got (even in the wedding night of WWX and WC) and destroying the company of the Wens. As they (LWJ & WWX) continued the deed, WWX ended up pregnant and LWJ is more than determined to take WWX back. I do hope you can help me find this story. Thank you in advance!😘 @gegegeeee

FOUND? 姻緣 | this marriage was always predestinedby saccharinings (E, 43k, wangxian, Cheating, Infidelity, not between wangxian, WWX is married and LWJ persuades him to cheat on his husband with him, Dark LWJ, A/B/O, Feminizing Language, Exhibitionism, Size Difference, WagnXian Have a Breeding Kink, Stomach Bulge, Possessive LWJ, Manipulation, WWX Wears Lingerie, Rape/Non-con Elements, for one part, Hair-pulling Kink, Alpha LWJ, Omega WWX, Mirror Sex, Vibrators, Phone Sex, Rimming, Edgeplay, slight choking kink, Light Bondage, Inappropriate Use of Gūsū Lán Forehead Ribbon, LJY’s Big Fat Crush on Milfxian, Pregnant WWX, WangXian Endgame, Spanish Translation)

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17. I'm looking for this fic that's basically a bunch of drabbles in one. Each chapter title is one word and serves as the theme for that chapter. I remember it having quite a lot of chapters, but I only remember one titled "kneeling" where Wuxian kneeled before Wangji (if you need a better picture, imagine that one scene in CQL where Wuxian kneeled and put his head on Yanli's lap in that one episode) @mindaneacc

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18. Hey, I'm looking for a fic where LZ and WY are already married and living in Gusu. But they get separated from each other due to an illness/curse going through the Wen Sect, so LZ leaves to give medical aid. In the process, he ends up adopting Wen Yuan. There is a sweet connection between WY and Lan Qiren. But most importantly Wen Qing managed to assassinate Wen Ruohan. @mother-of-pigeons

I remember 18, though I can't find it either. The sickness/curse in question made people burn from the inside; it was contagious from breathing in the ashes of the people dying. There was a honestly touching scene with Wen Chao dying while Wen Ning kept him company. Wen Qing assassinated WRH because she was treating him for the illness, for which they'd finally found the cure, and he announced that he therefore would use it as a weapon against the other sects, by deliberately infecting them and holding the cure hostage. The only ones they'd allow to have the cure are the Lans, because they're the only ones who came to help. He also intended to marry WQ, as he'd lost both his sons and needed new ones. I think it might have been part of a series, with the first part showing how WangXian got together.

FOUND!🔒Distance Makes the Heart Grow Fonder by Titans_R_Us (T, 11k, WangXian, Arranged Marriage, Mutual Pining, Temporary Separation, BAMF WQ)

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19. Hello!! Here I am again looking for a wangxian fic. It's one that I read through here but never found again, anyway, the things I remember from the fic are: the sects transform into animals, being shapeshifters, the Lan are dragons like WWX, I also remember that the transfer of core occurred but the core has a mind of its own and it goes back to WWX's body, WWX faints and Wanji makes a soulmate connection... Those are the only things I remember!!

Note: I think Ao3 should have category filtering in our subscriptions, because I think I subscribed to the story but I already looked and couldn't find it... @sweettiebah

FOUND? sounds like "Revealed Truths Against Dragon's Fire" by Preludian_Staves. It's hidden on AO3 but avaiable on the waback machine.

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20. Hi! I'm looking for a fic with a red string of fate au where wwx jumps off the cliff, but has a moment of weakness when he looks at lwj and end up tying himself to lwj before dying... And when he wakes up he discovers lwj kept the string bc when he wakes up as mxy he can see it connecting him to lwj. He flees and tries to put as much distance as he can between them but lwj still finds him at dafan mountain... It's a multi chapter (I think) with a happy ending. Help please? 🥺

FOUND? 💖 a trail of blood to find your way back home by blackelement7 (T, 19k, wangxian, JC & WWX, what if a soulmate string au, but without the soulmates aspect of it, a reflection on the nature of marriage, WWX is full of regrets, so is LWJ, Mutual Pining, Miscommunication, JC & WWX Reconciliation, JC is trying his best but words are hard and his brother is stupid, Siblings, Canonical Character Death, but it’s just WWX, accidental 3zun feels, WWX as the most unreliable of narrators)

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[soybento]

So. Here's the Thing. The drama SEVERELY changed parts of the MDZS novel. Enough that Wei Wuxian's character AND as a result (off the top of my head), Jin Guangyao, Madam Yu, Jiang Cheng and even Su She's character. This is going to be a whole thesis so here we go.

Let's start with one of the largest topics of debate in the fandom, Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian, and specifically Wei Wuxian's position in the Jiang Clan and the heat about Jiang Cheng's actions. In the novel, Yu Furen doesn't like him for her husband's preference of Wei Wuxian over Jiang Cheng (this is the same in the drama) and his supposed previous love interest, Wei Wuxian's mother (debated, ambiguous). Added to this is Wei Wuxian's ambiguous position in the clan. Jiang Fengmian never specifies what his rank/position is (as other people have pointed out) and as a result, all the Jiang Clan members kind of...have their own relationship w/ him courtesy of their own projections. For example, Yanli's relationship with Wei Wuxian is the simplest, mostly because she's the daughter, not a strong cultivator and is destined to eventually leave the Jiang Clan. She chooses him as her brother. For everybody else? It's a lot more complicated. Yu Furen (understandably if not justifiably) does not want to treat Wei Wuxian as her own son (aforementioned reasons). She sees him as a threat to her son's right of inheritance and also, doesn't trust the origin of his birth. This is definitely Jiang Fengmian's fault since he took in his servant's son but also not exactly since it's complicated by their close friendship and his unreciprocated feelings for Cangse Sanren. Consequently, Yu Ziyuan projects her insecurities not only on Wei Wuxian but also Jiang Cheng (we know this) and constantly compares the two of them. She wants her son to be better.

Jiang Cheng is a product of his parents and sister's relationship w/ Wei Wuxian but what I think the drama changes is the fact that Jiang Cheng cares for Wei Wuxian as a *martial brother* and a future right hand man. He gets the brother stuff because his sister has loved Wei Wuxian as her didi, he gets the firm ideas of Wei Wuxian's future position in the Jiang Clan from his mother (and also the lack of denial from Jiang Fengmian himself). He doesn't see Wei Wuxian as a brother *only*. Instead, he partially projects duty and destiny onto him because of how they were raised. This is why I don't think it was wrong of him to refuse to take in the Wen Remnants. He had a duty to the Jiang Clan that he chose to prioritize to keep himself out of the political tension that Wei Wuxian was in the center of. He didn't see it as disowning a brother but as a strategic withdrawal from the situation for his sect. Say what you will about him but I don't believe that he's unjustified in wanting to ensure the safety of his Sect (especially as clan leader). Growing up, Jiang Cheng did get a lot of conflicting opinions on his own worth. He fell short in almost all his relationships because he would approach Wei Wuxian w/ the anger and competitiveness his mother expected of him only to disappoint his sister who expected them to be siblings in the truest sense of the word. He disappointed his mother because he *did* see Wei Wuxian as more than just his fellow disciple, not just a future servant. He didn't disappoint his father but his father never made his affection for Jiang Cheng clear and this lack of communication led him to draw his own conclusions on Jiang Fengmian's preferences.

My issue with the drama is that much of this is not clearly defined or explained. He is villainized for his eventual estrangement with Wei Wuxian because we're operating from the assumption that his feelings for Wei Wuxian *are* of the sibling kind and not the messy duty vs martial brother type. His position is understandable after reading more of the novel. Plus all the changes about the siege led by him (which I'll talk abt) and Nightless City and the Qiongqi Pathway Ambush and him rejecting the Wen Remnants. And the ending at Guanyin Temple makes sense. Wei Wuxian is released from his commitments to the Jiang Clan and that is the kindest thing Jiang Cheng could do for him (again, others have pointed this out, I'm simply reiterating it). Because Wei Wuxian *does* care for Jiang Cheng as a brother but his feelings for him are also complicated by duty and obligation to the Jiang Clan and dealing w/ the complicated myriad of expectations from the Jiang family. That and less of him being a brother is what leads Jiang Cheng to think Wei Wuxian betrayed him. It's like he betrayed his duty to the Jiang Clan and not just their brotherly commitments.

Now coming to the second point, it's the drama's portrayal of Wei Wuxian as a martyr. And he can be but he's so much more complex than that. To start with, I believe his character would not have endeared himself to me as much if I hadn't started with the drama but now, I enjoy the complexity of the novel Wei Wuxian more. For example, novel villains Su She and Jin Guangyao are a lot more complex than portrayed in the drama. Because the drama kind of made them scapegoats (ironic as they portray Wei Wuxian that way) for Wei Wuxian's continued innocence. The Ambush at the Qiongqi Path is so much more complex than in the drama. Jin Guangyao *does* set it up and Su She curses Jin Zixun out of spite and Wei Wuxian *is* wrongfully cornered. But he also loses control of Wen Ning and accidentally kills Jin Zixuan all because he loses control of his emotions. I won't comment on whether this is right or wrong because Wei Wuxian was cornered. He was fighting his way out of an ambush. He made mistakes like escalating the situation by antagonizing Jin Zixun, not believing Jin Zixuan wanted to help him, and not calling off Wen Ning when asked to by Jin Zixuan (because he believed he'd be shot by the archers) and accusing Jin Zixuan of working w/ Jin Zixun to ambush him. By taking away these mistakes in the drama, it takes away the complexity of the situation and what the choices say about him. Jin Guangyao did not intend for Jin Zixuan and Wei Wuxian's confrontation to end the way it did. He wanted to put Jin Zixuan and Jin Zixun against each other in the novel (correct me if I'm wrong tho). He isn't innocent of course but his motivations make more sense than him just killing Wei Wuxian on behalf of his father with no deeper mechanations at play.

Secondly, the battle at the Nightless City. In the drama (and possibly in the novel but this isn't confirmed) he commits suicide but the timeline is important. He does lose control of his puppets in Nightless City and making Jin Guangyao the scapegoat for his loss of control *again* simplifies his character as someone that can do no wrong and is hopelessly plotted against by the rest of the world. The puppet that hurts Yanli (not fatally) is one that Wei Wuxian has lost control of and not one that's been controlled by Guangyao or Xue Yang or Su She. She sacrifices herself to save him and he *then* slaughters the rest. After he finds that Wen Ning and Wen Qing have died and they plan on leading a siege on the rest of the Wens, he raises the corpses and loses control and accidentally hurts Yanli who asks him to stop. He tries, she dies, and then he slaughters a bunch of people.

And in the novel, there are a few months between the Nightless City Massacre and his death. He defends the Wens from the siege led by Jiang Cheng (and *this* is the siege that he leads which makes MUCH more sense than the siege he supposedly led in Nightless City as shown in the drama) and when they die and he realizes he's going to lose, he kills himself (probably out of guilt?).

The implications of this are major. His sister's death doesn't push him into suicide, it pushes him into war (and Wen Qing and Wen Ning's death). It's the wtf this is a lost cause I'm fucked and everyone I wanted to protect is dead that eventually pushes him into death.

Looking at this from Jiang Cheng's perspective things make a lot more sense. He is under the (almost rightful?) assumption that Wei Wuxian lost control and killed Jin Zixuan (also Jin Zixun but lol fuck that guy). He is also not clear on the details of the ambush and while we don't know this, is given the same explanation for the ambush as everyone else. That Wei Wuxian cursed Jin Zixun. And Wei Wuxian does say that if he killed Jin Zixun he'd do it a thousand times better (worse). Following this, Jiang Cheng's sister is hurt and while her actual death is a choice that she makes, he blames Wei Wuxian for it.

I won't deny that Jiang Cheng is morally ambiguous but so is Wei Wuxian and so is Jin Guangyao and Su She. The drama is almost a softer, nicer version of the novel where the protagonist is the hero and not just the person whose perspective we're getting. But in doing so, Su She, Jin Guangyao and Jiang Cheng's character are changed to fit the narrative.

What the drama also doesn't get across is that demonic cultivation isn't a good idea!!! Lan Qiren, as much as I dislike him for his rules or whatever, did have a point. It goes against the natural order of things, there's a reason why demonic cultivation should not be taught and why Wei Wuxian never took in disciples. It would result in cultivators like Xue Yang. When drama says that Jiang Cheng was hunting and killing off demonic cultivators because he hated Wei Wuxian, it takes away from the fact that demonic cultivation does actually harm the body and soul! It does in fact require human sacrifices! Just because Wei Wuxian didn't use any does not mean that the others won't! Jiang Cheng is sure to have had a personal motivation but fanon misses that those accounts have been of the crowd and the cultivation world, not from Jiang Cheng directly. His killing of the demonic cultivators was likely not as simple as fuck that guy, I hate everyone like him.

Finally, Yanli. Surprised? I have a lot of thoughts on her though so I'm gonna have to keep going. She's at the centre of the storm and also severely sidelined. She's a motif and she's a character fighting to make choices that the world does not allow women and especially women that aren't cultivators. I think thinking of the story from *her* perspective (novel or canon) makes my appreciation for her even deeper. She is, despite Wei Wuxian's perception of her, a flawed character. But she's flawed in the same way everyone else is. She grows up in a volatile family and her mother doesn't share her sentiments but she chooses to love Wei Wuxian as a brother. Although she means well, this brings about a conflict of interest for Jiang Cheng. She's perceived as this all forgiving character by Wei Wuxian and it makes sense, we're looking at his POV *but* it takes away from the fact that she consciously chooses to be that way. I think her character brings about some very interesting ideas in society about womanhood and specifically motherhood. Her role in Wei Wuxian's life is more motherly than it is sisterly and thus, her sacrifices are almost expected. What comes to mind is that her feelings on things really aren't considered. Remember when Jiang Cheng lost his golden core? Wei Wuxian comes in and he sits across from her and he tells her that this is all his fault. She's dealing w/ the loss of her parents, her brother's sudden injury and her worry over Wei Wuxian. But she's gotta tell him gently that no, that's not true. In reality, this isn't ABOUT Wei wuxian. His continued insistence that things are his fault does bring about a degree of self centeredness because it takes away from where his attention should be. After he kills her husband, his focus is on his own guilt over his actions but less on her pain (I'm not condemning him, I'm just pointing it out). Being a martyr (as depicted in the drama not the novel as much) is incredibly selfless but also incredibly selfish. When the audience doesn't see this, Jiang Yanli's actions almost seem expected. Of course she's gotta see him for the person that he is and know that he didn't mean it etc. But these expectations take away from the very real choices she makes to continue to forgive and love and forgive. She does this with Jin Zixuan and although from Wei Wuxian's perspective, he sees it as she's too nice and kind and forgiving, it takes away from the fact that she *CHOOSES* to forgive him and it doesn't just happen as a part of her character profile. Being kind is a choice, not a personality trait. Being nice and agreeable and open etc can be personality. but altruism? That shit is where the credit is due.

The narrative does minimize her (I'm not sure if this is intentional) by making her an accessory to Wei Wuxian's development. She's sidelined during important moments like the war, the rebuilding of Lotus Pier, even the times that their parents die. She steps in when Wei Wuxian or Jiang Cheng need help or a guiding hand. She steps away when the story has to focus on other conflict. She could've easily turned against Wei Wuxian for killing her husband but she chooses to see him again and later, die for him. Jiang Cheng uses her in his own way, and so does Wei Wuxian. I do not particularly mean this as a criticism but I think it's worth noting that Jiang Yanli was a traditionally feminine character whose strength was a very conscious choice on her part and is not more or less than if she had chosen to go into war w/ the rest of them. If she didn't hold back on so many things like not protesting her engagement, playing a supporting role and staying in the background for much of the narrative until the death of her husband pushes her into the spotlight, waiting for her brothers to get back from war, waiting for Wei Wuxian to tell her what's wrong when he comes to Lotus Pier and fights w/ Jiang Cheng and seems to, supposedly, not want to be there, the story would've been different. Idk different how but definitely different. She chooses not to take up space and thus, narrative attention. She doesn't push, and she doesn't demand, and she defends quietly. I think that's why traditionally feminine characters are kind of a double edged sword when perceived. Are these qualities inherent? If yes, then they're taken for granted and...minimized. Are they chosen? If yes, then it begs the question of what a traditionally feminine character is at all. Sacrifice, standing back to let other people shine, being quiet and letting other people's actions (even those that you love) control what happens in your life. I cannot imagine that these are traits that someone is simply born with and thus, give Jiang Yanli credit because she chose to be that way!!

Ending this with, I don't believe there's a wrong medium with better or worse portrayals of the characters. I think I like the drama for some of its kinder aspects and the novel for its complexity. I just think it's important to note that Wei Wuxian is more than a martyr, Jiang Cheng more than his brother (he's in his own right a sect leader and plays an important role outside of his relation to Wei Wuxian) and Jiang Yanli more than a mother figure. And we love Lan Wangji ofc, sorry he didn't get a mention. Give more thought to characters like Jin Guangyao and Su She (yes Ik ik) and Xue Yang as portrayed in the novel. There's a theme here of classism that I don't think is appreciated enough.

The very point of this post is not to condemn or acquit any of the characters. It's just to point out how none of them are black and white.

That's it for now and I hope I didn't forget/mistake any of the details in the drama or novel!!

[stiltonbasket]

prompt for the fem!wwx au: what about the fallout of jyl's broken engagement?

On the morning of Wei Wuxian's first day back at Lotus Pier, she wakes to the sound of raised voices in the audience room.

Squinting against the light, she stumbles out of bed and opens the sliding door to the corridor outside, where she finds Jiang Cheng hovering on the threshold of his own doorway with his arms folded over his chest.

"What's wrong?" she yawns, rubbing her eyes. "Is it bad news?"

"Bad news for Mother," Jiang Cheng mutters. "Fuqin just told her about A-Jie's engagement."

Wei Wuxian feels as if someone had thrown cold water over her. In the midst of her private delight that Shijie's betrothal had ended, she had not thought of how Madam Yu would take the news: and now, both she and Jiang Cheng are about to find out.

"Did Jiang-shushu tell Auntie that I..."

Jiang Cheng shakes his head. "No. I don't think it would have made much of a difference, but Father didn't say a word."

They tiptoe across the narrow bridge between the family compound and the audience chamber, hardly daring to breathe; and then, like a firework bursting on a dark, still night, they hear Madam Yu's shrill voice rising over Jiang Fengmian's.

"Who will she marry now?" she shouts. "Ouyang-zongzhu has no children, and all the other men in the Jin clan take after Jin Guangshan. How can I let her go to Lanling without Yuyan's protection?"

"I thought perhaps Lan Xichen might—"

"I knew it. You've had your eye on him since the year Zixuan was born, but that boy will do no good to any woman as a husband!" shrieks Madam Yu. "He has had no one but Nie Mingjue in his eyes since he was a child. What will become of our daughter now, Jiang Fengmian? Zixuan was the only man who might have suited her, the only one—and now, just because he complained about the betrothal, you—"

She takes in a great, heaving breath, and Wei Wuxian hears the thud of her heeled boots striking the floor.

"And now, thanks to you," she chokes, "I will have to watch as Wei Ying marries Lan Wangji—" Wei Wuxian winces, "—and as she becomes mother to the next Lan-zongzhu, whilst my child must settle for the heir to some backwater clan in Changlun, or a commoner—"

Jiang-shushu sighs.

"If I had not broken Yanli's engagement," he says quietly, "then you would have had to watch A-Ying live as she ought to do, in comfort and plenty with a husband who cares for her dearly, while our daughter lived in a gilded prison with a man who has made no secret of the fact that the very mention of her name is a burden to him. You would have watched A-Ying's children growing up without a care in the world, and A-Ying adored by the whole of Gusu Lan as she deserves—and all the while, our daughter, who used to weep whenever she trod on an insect in the path, she—"

He sounds as if he might burst into tears. "Could you bear it, Ziyuan? Can you bear to think of A-Li's children, growing up in Koi Tower, and hearing some relation from the branch clan saying that their father would never have wed their mother if their nainai had not forced him to accept her? Can you bear to think of our granddaughters watching Zixuan treating A-Li unkindly, and entering their own wedded homes with the belief that that same unkindness was due to them?"

Yu Ziyuan falters for a moment. "Yuyan would never let Zixuan treat Yanli that way. I have often thought that she loves A-Li more than she loves him."

"Then you are a fool," Jiang Fengmian says wearily. "Quan Yuyan might be your sworn sister, but she is Jin Zixuan's mother before all else. She knows that A-Li will be filial to her husband, and her in-laws, and she knows no other maiden would make a better mother for her grandchildren. Do you truly think that she would let A-Li go, if the choice was left to her?"

"I—"

"What does it matter if Quan Yuyan can ensure that A-Li is treated well?" Jiang-shushu asks. "Jin Zixuan does not want her, and she knows it. For the love of heaven, the entire Jianghu knows it—so how could you even think of asking to A-Li waste her life with him?"

Madam Yu must have opened her mouth to say something, but Jiang Fengmian cuts her off before she can make a sound.

"It does not matter if A-Li likes him. In fact, that makes matters worse," he says brusquely. "If she marries him, she will not leave him, no matter how unhappy he might make her. And I would rather keep her here unmarried all her life than watch her in pain.

"And then there is Jin Guangshan," Jiang-shushu continues, now sounding faintly ill. "I will not speak of my fears regarding him, but you are a woman, Ziyuan. Ought you not to understand them better than I?"

Madam Yu is silent for a long while.

"If you had such thoughts," she hisses at last, sounding very much like Zidian usually does in the midst of strangling a particularly fierce yaoguai, "then you ought to have spoken sooner, so that we could have found a better match before Yanli came of age."

"I made my thoughts known the year Jin-zongzhu tried to lay his hands on Li Shuai," Jiang Fengmian replies. "You were convinced that I was wrong, because A-Shuai was too young to understand what he might have done to her; but I know what I saw, and you still refused to change your mind."

A moment later, he turns and walks out of the room. Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng exchange panicked glances before jumping off the footbridge to keep from being noticed; and after Madam Yu stalks off in the other direction, Wei Wuxian drags herself out of the shallow water under the bridge and makes a beeline for Jiang Yanli's room.

"Wait for me!" Jiang Cheng yelps, before cursing under his breath. "Wei Wuxian, for heaven's sake—"

But she does not slow her pace until she reaches her sister's bedroom and slams the door behind her, startling Jiang Yanli out of what must have been (judging by the look on her face) a very peaceful sleep.

"I'm glad you're not going to marry that stupid peacock," Wei Wuxian blurts out, the instant Jiang Yanli opens her eyes. "You deserve better, Shijie. Your husband ought to be the most honorable man in the world, and I won't stand for less."

Her sister's mouth twitches. "I'm glad you think so," she says mirthfully, reaching out to stroke Wei Wuxian's wet hair. "Who should it be, then?"

Wei Wuxian gulps.

"What about Lan Zhan?" she asks. "You could marry him instead of me, couldn't you?"

Jiang Yanli bursts out laughing.

"A-Xian," she gasps, "when we left Gusu, didn't you say that I ought to have a husband who loved me just as much as Third Shidi loves Li Shuai?"

"Well, yes."

"Then how could you possibly imagine that I might want to marry Lan Wangji?"

"But Lan Zhan is the best junzi in the world, in all ways. I'm certain of it," Wei Wuxian insists, ignoring the sudden ache in her chest. "He loves all things that are good and true, so why wouldn't he love you? I mean, he treats me well, and I make him carry my packages at the market and chase me all over Lufeng to keep dogs away while I'm running errands. I'm sure he'd treat you a hundred times better."

Her sister leans forward and rests her brow against Wei Wuxian's.

"A-Ying?"

"Hm?"

"You're a very silly girl, and I love you very much," she says tenderly. "Now go take a warm bath, or you'll catch cold."

Puzzled, Wei Wuxian drips her way out into the corridor and back into her own bedroom, where she finds a damp Jiang Cheng lying flat on his back on the rug under her window.

"No more peacock," he sighs, propping himself up on his elbows. "You know, I almost feel sorry for him."

"What? Why?"

"Because A-Jie could have made him the happiest man in the world, if he'd only given her a chance."

"I suppose so," Wei Wuxian says reluctantly. "But, Jiang Cheng—who do you suppose Shijie will marry now?"

Jiang Cheng puts his face in his hands.

"Not Lan Wangji, definitely," he mutters. "Did you really ask A-Jie if she wanted to take your place as Madam Lan?"

"Of course I did. Didn't you hear me?"

He looks at her in disbelief. "Really?"

Wei Wuxian nods.

"Lan Wangji has the patience of a bodhisattva," Jiang Cheng groans. "When it's time for your wedding, Wei Wuxian, I am going to laugh. Just wait and see."

[lyrisnightblood]

Dear "lovely" "canon Jiang Cheng Stans",

I see what you're doing here. I can see y'all talk about "book meta" and "writing Jiang Cheng as canonically accurate" and you know what?

Y'all are doing a fantastic job, keep it up 😍🎉

Yeah really! I mean it!

Y'all are doing a fantastic job showcasing just how utterly pathetic y'all are, how chronically online y'all are, and most importantly, y'all are doing a marvellous job showcasing your hate boner for a fictional character you claim to hate and is an "antagonist".

Keep up the lovely work y'all, show the world how you lack an ounce of reading comprehension, you booktok obsessed peeps!

And while you're at it, let me go spittin' facts, straight from the book.

Jiang Yanli is dead. End of the story. You can fantasize to your heart's content about how "she'll react to JC raising her son" and get your pants in a twist about all the bad things she'll supposedly say, but that's just it. You can only imagine it.

You know why?

Hmm idk cos she's fucking dead and no one knows what the dead wants?

This is exactly like "Don't do this your mother wouldn't have wanted this of you" "don't talk like you know my mother she's dead and i don't know what she wanted cos she's dead"

Well

I should've expected such callous behaviour from antis 🤷

Admit it, y'all wanted Wei Wuxian to raise Jin Ling huh? C'mon, don't be shy🥰 you can say that

Except your fave never could've raised Jin Ling cos 1) as if the Jin Sect would let their Sect heir be raised by the jianghu's most wanted person (Gasp, "wEi wUxIaN sLaNdEr" love check your books even wwx acknowledges that fact lolll) and 2) how tf could a dead man, no less a man who's soul got ripped into shards, take care of a baby?

"but Jin Guangyao was a better parental figure, and an actual parent"

Yeah, a parent who killed his own child cos he was worried about his reputation (I can already smell y'all coming at me to defend him like chill, I only said the truth, and yes, man was more worried about people knowing he married his sister and losing position than the life of his own son, just because he loved Rusong didn't change the fact that he was ready to go to the extreme). Not to mention how Jin Guangyao held a string to his own nephew's neck and threatened to kill him to save his skin while it was Jiang Cheng who begged him to let Jin Ling go

Betcha Jiang Yanli's ghost is watching the scene while sipping tea and praising Jin Guangyao huh

"but one of Jin Zixuan's cousin-"

Jin Zixun is dead. And is a truly despicable person. Or did you forget how he insulted Wei Wuxian left and right?

Oh wait. Of course you forgot, "criticizing" Jiang Cheng takes precedence! My bad, i should've known!

Let me stop y'all before you say "Jin Guangshan". You must be the utterly worst person in the planet to want a known womanizer and child abuser and rapist to raise a child. IDC Jin Guangshan is related to Jin Ling. Y'all just want a known abuser and sexual predator to raise Jin Ling just say you don't give two cents about the poor boy except when you want to hate on Jiang Cheng 🙄

"what about Jin Furen"

Yeah what about her? Or did you forget how she canonically had a role to play in Jin Ling's upbringing?

Who do you think is responsible for Jin Ling spending half a year in Lotus Pier? Certainly not Jin Guangyao!

If there was one person in the Jin Sect who could have enough sway to ensure that her own grandson is spending a significant amount of time in another sect, it's Jin Furen.

Three guesses why she did that?

Lol you actually thought I'd wait for your guess? LMFAOOOOO you're so cute 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

She did that because Jin Furen cared for A-Li and - wait for it - A-Cheng!!!

Reread the books if you missed it, mmkay?

She was fond of Yu Ziyuan, and by extension her children, and post-SSC, she offered to support both of them on multiple occasions (which they declined because any political support from Jin Sect would've come with strings attached cos JGS😑)

Establishing the fact that Jin Furen cared for Jiang Cheng, she had agreed to Jin Ling spending half his time in Lotus Pier because she sensed that he was all Jiang Cheng had left, and vice versa.

Y'all also have utterly forgotten about the cruel way Jin Ling's paternal cousins have bullied him for being an orphan. Like, Koi Tower is supposed to be his home, and he was bullied to the point where Lotus Pier became his sanctuary.

"AHA! GOTCHA! QIN SU SHOULD'VE RAISED HIM!"

Laughing My Fricking Ass Off TM

My man Qin Su was RIGHT THERE! No one was stopping her from raising Jin Ling! She could've been the maternal figure Jin Ling needed! And no one would have questioned it, it was actually expected for that timeline.

Except.... Did she? Did she do anything to make Jin Ling feel loved? Has Jin Ling ever talked about his aunt the same way he talks about his uncles? Apart from the respect that he gives to her as his paternal uncle's wife, does Jin Ling refer to her fondly? Even once?

"Alright, your point?"

Why thank you for asking 💗😌

My point is that Jiang Cheng is canonically the best guardian for Jin Ling, and this conclusion comes AFTER analysing every other candidate.

And you know what?

I am absolutely right🎉💗🌸😻

Evidence?

Exhibit A: Jiang Cheng accompanying Jin Ling's nighthunt to look out for him but also keeps himself at a distance so that Jin Ling actually participates in the nighthunt

Exhibit B: Letting Fairy enter Lotus Pier despite the strict dog ban (which he had adhered to even after wwx died)

Exhibit C: Jin Ling never once flinches or looks scared when Jiang Cheng shows his temper and says "I'll break your legs", he knows his jiujiu is all bark but would never hurt him

Exhibit D: "how dare you hit me? Even my jiujiu had never hit me!" - Jin Ling to Wei Wuxian (who btw oh so casually hits Jin Ling as if it's a normal thing to hit a child💀)

Exhibit E: "A-Ling! Who made you cry?" - Jiang Cheng when he saw a crying Jin Ling. No admonishment. No Judgement. And certainly no anger directed at Jin Ling.

Exhibit F: Jin Ling being unafraid to cry in front of his jiujiu, he knows he won't be judged.

Exhibit G: Jiang Cheng saving Jin Ling on multiple occasions.

Exhibit H: Jiang Cheng begging Jin Guangyao to take him hostage and release Jin Ling, without hesitation, despite his spiritual energy being locked and being stabbed in the chest.

I could go on and on and on but unlike you lovely people who have no hobby other than slandering Jiang Cheng, I have TONS.

And also a life.

So, go fantasize about your Jiang Cheng hate boner elsewhere. I see your pathetic attempt at taking over the Canon Jiang Cheng tag and it ain't working.

Ciao 🤟

[nevertheless-moving]

Jiang Wanyin's Dog Part Two (MDZS AU #7)

Part One

Jiang Feinman the diplomat is horrified that his sons were apparently actively training for war behind his back. And by all accounts, his worst fears are confirmed — he who trains for war trains to start war. He only believes half of what he hears of his boys actions at the Wen Indoctrination Camp (the Xuanwu Cave Massacre, some are calling it) but half is enough. Incredibly disappointed in both of them — also why demonic cultivation? Why? Where did he go wrong? But for some reason the more he tries to talk, to teach, to explain, the more he warns about the unrighteousness of striking first, the worse their conversations go. He's used to that with Jiang Cheng, but now Wei Ying, too? The more he pushes, the less they tell him, so eventually he stops pushing.

(They actually did initially intend to explain the time travel, but he was so disappointed by all the murdering that neither of them want to get into all the much much more worse things they did in their previous life so they just…don't. They don't explain shit.)

He still supports the secret Jiang war preparations cover story, pretending to have approved it in advance to other sects, because what else can he do. Really not thrilled about being backed into a corner on that, even though he does eventually accept and even admire the invention of the ghost path, once Wei Wuxian explains it better. Wei Wuxian maybe cries a little at his Uncle's approval.

Too much faith that the whole perfect servant/ master schtick is a front for brotherhood even before the actual reconciliation, but eh, they get there eventually, so he’s not wrong. Manages the homefront during the campaign mostly, though he has his moments of battlefield glory. Major diplomatic success in getting the Jin Sect to side more definitively with the sunshot campaign.

…Definitely dies. Not right away, but he's not meant for war, ya know? Maybe gets the actual time travel explanation on his death bed. Maybe. Touching goodbye either way.

Then, you know that scene in Good Will Hunting where Robin Williams says it’s not your fault over and over again? That, except Wei Wuxian and Jiang Wanyin are both saying it to each other. Clinches the reconnection. It’s the worst sort of do over, but Jiang Cheng blaming Wei Ying for his parents first deaths was one of their lowest moments, arguably the point things really started to break between them, so having the perspective to very actively not do that is Big. I’m sorry — this au is about excruciating Yunmeng bros reconciliation, I’ve got to kill at least one family member.

-

Yu Ziyuan approving of the cool distance between the two, proud of her son’s obvious command over Wei Ying, but disgusted by the fact that her son seems to have completely given up on surpassing him. Flabbergasted that A-Cheng is now intercepting Zidian’s strikes on the shameful cretin — his to punish?? What the fuck does that mean? Who’s in charge here? How dare you speak to your mother like that.

Ultimately, Jiang Cheng doesn’t know how to handle being around his mother. He recognizes many of the things he likes least about himself in her. He recognizes many of the things that made him a successful sect leader in her. I mean, on a certain level he already knew he had become his mother, but holy shit.

She's...mixed on handling her son's ascent, to say the least. The fact that his unquestionable power is so inextricably linked to his command over Wei Ying's even more unquestionable power fucks with her so bad. At least Jiang Cheng had some time to get used to the concept.

He's in his late 30s and bristles at any indication of being subordinate to anyone — Mom's included. He also wants to break down in tears and hide behind her, because that's his MOM, but he can’t do that. He’s sect heir. He's started a war. He's leading a war.

Ok, one (1) night crying into her robes that they never speak of again.

She tends to run battlefields and missions away from the duo. Serious pushback from Jiang Cheng about talking down Wei Ying in front of others, purely for pragmatic reasons, of course — that’s their sects best weapon. If she survives the war ("So what if he's not coming back? Can't I do anything without him?") then she spends much of her son’s rule night hunting away from the sect. Does NOT get told about time travel any time soon because they know she would press for details and then kill Wei Wuxian.

-

Jiang Yanli incredibly concerned about her boys after they come back from evil summer camp covered in blood and VERY CLEARLY WAY TOO FUCKED UP FOR A FEW MONTHS AWAY?? Excuse you both you are very clever but are you seriously trying to convince me that you invented a whole ass entire dangerous cultivation path while I was around without me noticing? A-xian, a-cheng are you calling me stupid? No? Good.

On a meta-level, she's built her life around parenting the two of them, there's absolutely no way she buys any story about keeping a long time secret under her nose. The first and possibly only one they actually explain the time travel to, even if they can’t bring themselves to tell her everything.

It's deeply distressing to not actually be the oldest sibling anymore, considering how much she defined herself by that, but her brothers don't actually seem to have noticed, so it works out fine.

Her role in the war is slightly larger than canon; the fact that she's bringing an entire support staff of cooks and medics and cleaners that report to her definitely elevates her status and influence. (Headcanon that she basically managed Jiang Wanyin and Wei Wuxian's PR during the war — she's a lot better equipped to do so in this timeline).

She also would also get Instant Respect as one of a handful of people who holds Wuxian's leash, except Wei Wuxian tends to completely drops all necromantic activity when he's within 50 feet of her. It's actually kindof a problem. He's supposed to be passively maintaining some stuff but he's so freaked out about accidentally hurting her that a few perfectly good corpse armies collapse, meaning he has to raise them again from scratch.

They don't get too involved with it, but a few well timed words avoid the worst of the Soup Accusation Debacle and slightly accelerate the Zixuan/Yanli timeline.

Jin Zixuan is bewildered but mostly relieved by the fact that the lead Jiang disciples abrupt personality shift at the start of the war also came with an apparent rise in personal respect of him specifically? Is this because he obviously stepped to defend Mianmian, even though Wanyin and Wuxian did the real work? Jiang Wanyin is noticeably more courteous speaking to him than pretty much anyone else from his clan. Wei Wuxian is a bit harder to read, as he's stopped talked as much, which is bizarre and also fucking terrifying.

(There's a lot to think and feel in the Cave of the Xuanwu of Slaughter. But the fact that Wei Wuxian does not like him and absolutely could have killed him anytime he wanted is definitely up there.)

It's just — even further into the war, when Wuxian starts sometimes relaxing again during downtime, he still avoids Zixuan. Weird but also thank fuck.

-

Lan Zhan is living through a war, sure. But uniquely among his peers, he's also living through a Dark Romance novel! <3

The fun, mischievous boy who he fell in love with at first sight is:

1) the most terrifying powerful dark being who ever lived

2) mildly implied to have ALWAYS secretly been like this and the disobedient but good natured thing was just a cover for the dark truth. Or he might have been corrupted at some point. It's unclear.

3) already in an intense situation-ship with his shidi. (Jiang Wanyin snapping at Wei Ying to stop bothering Lan Zhan and he apologizes politely and then leaves. (Wei Ying definitely yells at Jiang Cheng in private for that but they did agree that he wouldn’t give any public evidence of division with the Jiang sect and publicly flirting with Second Master Lan could admittedly be read as split loyalties)) .

But IN PRIVATE —

(Once the yunmeng bros reconciliation starts getting underway Jiang Cheng feels a little bad about how obviously heartbroken Wei Ying is over losing his husband, and formally arranges with Lan sect for spiritual cleansing sessions after major battles as part of managing his first disciple’s cultivation. Wei Ying and Jiang Cheng are completely surprised when Lan Wanjii himself volunteers.)

— Well, when the two of them are alone together, Wei Ying is — not exactly the same person he fell in love with. But he’s still very much Wei Ying. Teasing, provocative, brilliant, righteous — and, and this can’t be stressed enough — OBSCENELY sexy.

(Yes, Lan Zhan has learned that his bad taste extends beyond what was, in hindsight, rather petty rule breaking. The whole 'One Man Army' thing is attractive alright? The flute is attractive. Gods help him, even the red eyes are attractive.)

But in private — I mean, the first few times Lan Zhan walks in to play Cleansing only to find Wei Ying tied up provocatively from a ‘binding talisman accident’ he takes it at face value. The man's been churning out one revolutionary invention after another, obviously that requires some testing. But it keeps happening, and Lan Zhan is increasingly panicked that Wei Ying can tell what its doing to his penis. He can’t tell, right? Lan Zhan is wearing extra layers to these sessions for that reason exactly and it’s not like his face is easy to read. He can’t know about what he's dreamed of doing with his ribbon. He can't know. He can’t know.

But shit like that keeps happening. Wei Ying casually mentions that he’s been working on a ritual that might make it possible for men to get pregnant, just as an idle experiment, but of course the only ethical person to test it on is himself. Lan Zhan’s dick gets so hard so fast that he almost passes out. Wei Ying, clearly mistaking the sudden lack of visible blood in his body for disgust (please let him think that, please, please) pouts and teases, “What, you don’t think I’d look good pregnant?” Gods be good, he’s holding his stomach and looking up at Lan Zhan through his eyelashes. Lan Zhan didn't even know he was into that! Does this make him more of a cutsleeve or less?? Very nearly goes insane and tries to breed him on the spot. Instead makes a looney toons style Lan Zhan shaped hole in the side of the tent to get away before he bends the man over

Even setting aside the...specifically affecting moments, Wei Ying is so exhausted and soft around Lan Zhan. It makes sense, he's been conquering battlefields, he's been reinventing cultivation, of course he's drained afterwards, that's why Lan Zhan is here — to help rebalance his spiritual energy. But he begs Lan Zhan to take care of him, to feed him, to help him into bed, and it hurts. He knows that it's at least in part a joke but he can't tell how much is him exaggerating his weakness to get Lan Zhan to react and how much is him actually needing help because Jiang fucking Wanyin is ordering him to destroy himself day in and day out, and the whole thing is doing terrible things to the inside of his stomach.

Worry and confusion and fear and anger choking his words even worse than usual, until all he can do is repeat rules about staying away from the crooked path. Lan Zhan scolds him for using resentful energy, sneers at him; he can hear himself and he sounds every inch the jade statue. But somehow, miraculously, Wei Ying understands what he means. He thanks him for being there, for caring what happens to him. Wei Ying tries to reassure him that he'll be alright, really, and how he got 'I am worried about your health' from "your way of living is an abomination" is a mystery, but Lan Zhan is so, so grateful.

Wait.

Fuck.

Wei Ying can either read his face, his words, or his thoughts. FUCK, HE TOTALLY KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING TO MY PENIS.

In public, Wei Wuxian is obediently violent. He's heretical and hyper competent and the only thing that distresses Lan Zhan more than Jiang Wanyin's callous treatment of his undeserved loyalty and talent is the fact that he's starting to wake up in a cold sweat from dreams where Lan Zhan is his leader and Wei Ying follows his orders without hesitation. What does that even mean. He doesn't want to be a sect leader! That would mean that his brother was dead and he would have to talk to people all the time and he doesn't even want Wei Ying to kneel before him! Not like that — not at all — fucking hell, he should not be masturbating this much during a war.

(Not explaining the time travel/ marriage to Lan Zhan is definitely their worst argument after coming back. Difficult compromise says Wei Ying can explain whatever, marry whoever, leave the sect — but only after the war is won and Jiang Sect is secure. Jiang Wanyin does not need Lan Zhan trying to convince Wei Ying to give up demonic cultivation any harder than he already is. He doesn't need him weighing in on shit he doesn't understand with his more-righteous-than-you-attitude. Most importantly, he definitely doesn't need Wei Ying to be running of after his husband when he's supposed to be obeying Jiang Cheng's fucking orders. Wei Ying reluctantly agrees, but he can't give up on having something with Lan Zhan. The end result is maybe a little not great to Lan Zhan, but you know... what's Wei Ying gonna do? Betray his brother's trust? Not chase Lan Zhan's dick? It's an impossible situation and you should feel bad for him. Plus, Lan Zhan's having a hard enough time anyway, he's not good with chang. He would probably not handle having the 'died and then married' bombshells dropped on him particularly well. Yeah...

Anyway Lan Zhan is very much going through 'he's such a tortured soul...only I see the vulnerable, loving truth... unless the soft self is the lie and the darkness is the real him... which would be kindof hot... bad, but also kindof hot... because if he actually is irredeemably evil than everything he does in private is him seducing me on purpose, which would be good except it would be a lie which would be bad but maybe he would do things to my body before he did whatever dark demonic things hes planning ... maybe I could convince him to join the light in truth... no i should have more faith in him he clearly still believes in justice and protecting the weak... unless that actually is at Jiang Wanyin's orders but I'm 80% sure that's a lie and Wei Ying is actually the one insisting we don't take food from farmers without repaying them and I'm even more certain he's the one making sure we accept Wen surrenders... I'm a terrible person for doubting the moments we've shared...

Lan Zhan eventually has a minor emotional breakdown and goes to his brother for advice.

The straw that breaks the camels back is working himself into a panic that Wei Ying might be trying to get him to kill his own brother. It's just... he keeps having sect leader/loyal guard sex dreams. They've been getting more elaborate. There's leather for some reason. And then one time his spiritual energy is too depleted after a battle and Xiongzhang covered his cleansing session, and Lan Zhan had to lay in bed healing. Laying there for hours imagining Wei Ying call Xichen 'gege' and get all soft limbed the way he does in his tent after battle... asking to put his head in Xichen's lap. Wearing just his inner robes around Xichen. The intensity of the rage leads him to suspect a dark spell. (It's just vinegar and lust and the cain instinct, but again, Lan Zhan is going through it.)

Lan Xichen hearing the stripped down version of all this like... honey. Sweet child. What the actual fuck.

Yes, I'm sure he's different when he's with you but... Wanjii. Wanjii, please. Think with your brain, not — I am not the one bringing vulgarity into this, don't look at me like that. A-Zhan. No, brother, you can't 'fix' him. Wanjii why even ask me for advice if you're just going to keep doing the same thing.

Xichen really already had enough on his plate before learning that Wei Wuxian is playing psychsexual mind games with his little brother for nefarious reason.

To be fair to Xichen, he absolutely is doing that, even though it's only half on purpose. But those nefarious end goals are in fact sex and marriage, something he's CONFIDENT Lan Zhan would enjoy! Look, Wei Ying knows he could have sat on Lan Zhan's dick day one, even before establishing a real emotional connection, even before providing some evidence that he's not a literal demon seducing him into darkness. He feels he's showing an awful lot of unappreciated restraint in allowing Lan Zhan to come to him when he's ready to move past the whole 'raising undead armies' and 'upending the natural order' and 'my family will never approve' things.

(alright, it hurts more than he cares to admit to himself to see Lan Zhan look at him with fear, with disgust. He's sticken with worry and grief that without their experience in the Xuanwu Cave something fundamental will be missing between them. But it doesn't take too long before Lan Zhan says something so Lan Zhan that it assures him the care and love is still there. Its not the same but Lan Zhan still insists on following him around during the campaign, which means the chance to create New memories side by side and it's...good.)

Plus, younger Lan Zhan is so much easier to fluster and its INCREDIBLY fun to have the upper hand. The man has not finished developing his thick face — he misses his husband like a limb, like an organ, but the younger model squirms so good.

WAY too much of this is relayed to Jiang Cheng during their daily war strategy/ bro gossip sessions.

I actually think Jiang Cheng, in exchange for being the sole person who has to listen to Wei Ying’s (often graphic) pining over Lan Zhan, should get to out his brother.

He should get to out him a few times! For fun and for profit. It’s like wingman-ing, but bitchy, which is I think very in character. Wei Ying is either amused by the various reactions, or in the case of Lan Zhan, genuinely thankful. Sure ‘letting lan zhan come to me when he’s ready and more cool with the ghostly path’ is maybe the right thing to do, but it kinda sucks ass. Also Lan Zhan might actually have a lust induced Qi deviation if he doesn't fuck Wei Ying soon, though you would think that leaving a conspicuously large jade phallus laying around would be enough of a hint. Whatever, let's throw some black powder on that slow burn!

Jiang Cheng implies he might be open to marry Wei Wuxian out of the sect after the war. Sect leaders ‘causally’ asking what sort of girl his ridiculously OP and perfectly servile first disciple might be interested in. Jiang Cheng nonchalantly describing Lan Wanjii to a T (tall, strong in cultivation, musically talented, more inclined to listen than to talk...) while Lan Wanjii pretends not to have accidentally bitten through a spoon.

Someone trying to offer their daughter to the Jiang Clan ("I noticed your young master Wuxian couldn’t help but compliment her beauty—“ “He compliments everyone's beauty. Don’t take it seriously.”). Lan Zhan happens to be there, waiting for an unrelated meeting, and Jiang Cheng can't help but take the opportunity to fuck with him.

Jiang Cheng: Ridiculous petition, don’t you think. Lan Zhan: Mn. Jiang Cheng: As if I’d approve a marriage with everyone my shixiong flirts with. Lan Zhan: Mn. Jiang Cheng: (Pausing while he waits for Lan Zhan to take a sip of tea): He’s obviously a cut sleeve anyway. Lan Zhan: [choking]

After the immediate joy of watching the younger Jade lose his composure, there is later regret because Wei Wuxian is thanking him for giving Lan Zhan a push and. Ugh.

Jin Zixuan on the other hand accidentally gets convinced that Wei Wuxian is in gay love with Jiang Wanyin, while Jiang Wanyin sees Wei Wuxian as a brother, a dynamic Zixuan works very hard to avoid thinking about.

The two sect heirs are having a post battle drink (things weren’t bad between him and the peacock, at the end at least, and it might help things in the future (visiting future nieces and nephews) if they could at least be amicable acquaintances).

The evening's going well enough that Jin Zixuan works up the courage to awkwardly ask about rumors of a betrothal between Wei Wuxian and Jiang Yanli. Wanyin surprises Zixuan by laughing, instead of getting incandescently angry. Sure, they’ve been drinking, but he didn’t even yell! At all! Jiang Wanyin, still laughing, leans it and confideds that Wei Wuxian has been in love with the same man for years.

Zixuan, shocked: "Wait a man? He’s —" Wanyin, taking another drink: "No sleeves." Zixuan, slightly confused why he’s even being told what's obviously a politically valuable secret: “Who—” Wanyin, forgetting that Wei Ying’s mooning over Lan Zhan is not actually that public, and Lan Zhan’s staring at Wei Ying just looks like glaring unless you’ve been unfortunately coached on reading his microexpressions. Also forgetting that people do not generally understand exactly what’s going on between the Jiang Sect’s heir and first disciple, except that it’s weird and intense: “Take a FUCKING guess” Zixuan: “Holy shit — you mean — oh man, that’s —“ Wanyin: “Yeah. You’re not the one who has to live with him.” Zixuan: “Couldn’t you — I mean does he have to be here — couldn’t he operate on different battlefields— Wanyin, suddenly enraged: the FUCK does that mean?? Zixuan: What? What did I — Wanyin: you got a PROBLEM with my cutsleeve brother?!? Zixuan: I thought — I thought you — did you say brother — Wanyin: FUCK YOU! Zixuan: I don’t — Wanyin: You think being a demonic rabbit stops him from being my brother?? Zixuan: I didn’t say — Wanyin: This is why your siblings are going to hate you! Zixuan: I — my — what do you mean siblings?? Wanyin: You don’t just — I’m not gonna — you don’t just abandon family! You don’t — you don’t send them away! You don't let them leave and face danger on their own! You don’t abandon them! It doesn’t matter if they’re a cutsleeve pervert or too into murdering people to solve problems! Got it? Zixuan: Alright, fine, sorry — Wanyin: GOT IT?!? Zixuan: Alright! Alright, I got it! Wanyin, sitting back down, muttering: Maybe if you were a better brother your half siblings won’t fuck everything up. Zixuan: what? Wanyin: Let’s get this straight — I get to make fun of Wei Wuxian. But until you marry our sister you don’t get to say shit. Zixuan: I — marry — no one said I — there’s no — Wanyin: GOT IT??T? Zixuan: Okay! Okay, I got it!

Jin Zixuan is extremely relieved to spend the rest of the night drinking in silence.

Close to the end of the war someone messes with their privacy talismans while snooping. So their daily checkin gets overheard and a bunch of people hear them bicker like children (threatening to pee in each other’s socks comes up) and laugh about someone's stupid hat, and trade jokes over a meal, which ruins their Untouchably Intense And Threatening Aura somewhat but honestly the aura was a bit much. Like, we’re allies, aren’t we?

Honestly a relief for a lot of people to find out they’re just teen brothers who are good at killing and putting on a very convincing facade (Wei Wuxian literally calls it his ‘scary face’). ALSO Jiang Cheng makes fun of Wei Ying for his super embarrassing crush, “So he actually greeted you in public! When should I expect a marriage offer?!’” which Wei Ying responds to by describing how lonely his butthole is and the various objects he’s been using to makes himself feel less forlorn, which Jiang Cheng responds to with wretching and throwing things.

So that’s some fun gossip.

(Xichen in particular is relieved that his brother hasn't wildly misjudged Wei Ying's true character, and that the Lan Sect probably isn't going to get subsumed by the Jiang)

The wider cultivation world eventually (post war) gets the explanation that Wei Wuxian can remember his past lives and that’s why he’s Like That.

Life One heavily implied to be evil warlord inventor with some connection to the burial mounds, possibly creating them, who was so reviled as to be wiped from the history texts, fracturing his soul to where Meng Po’s soup leaks out. So that explains a lot. Makes way more sense than someone inventing a whole new cultivation path at seventeen, haha.

Life Two heavily implied to be happy wife of a respected cultivator, which...huh.

(past life husband eventually revealed to be Lan Wanjii’s past reincarnation, who did not remember this but is unfortunately still in love. The public finds the story unbelievably romantic. His family is not thrilled. The cultivation world has mixed).

Timeline on all this unconfirmed. Amount of time in-between reincarnations indeterminate, he doesn’t remember. Will tell anyone who asks too many details about being an excellent wife — apparently he gave his husband a beautiful son but seriously don’t ask because he WILL cry and it’s very disturbing. Vaguely implies that he could be any number of people's grandmother.

Smaller number of people know that Jiang Wanyin also remembers his past lives to some extent, but he won’t talk about it. Wei Wuxian very solemnly whispering to fascinated cultivators that when he went insane in his first life Jiang Wanyin lead an army to stop him and that’s why he trusts him so much to keep under control as his leader now. I repeat: Jiang Wanyin will NOT be taking questions.

My MDZS AU Masterlist

[waitineedaname]

Do u have any transfemme Jiang Cheng headcanons you’re willing to share 🥺 every time you bring it up it makes me unreasonably happy so I would love to hear more about it 🫶🫶

AHHHH no really major headcanons, it's just something I like to rotate in my mind a lot! transfemme jiang cheng is. so special to me. I guess I have a few thoughts

I think a big part of Jiang Cheng's relationship to gender comes from Jiang Fengmian and Yu Ziyuan being the models of masculinity and femininity growing up. Jiang Cheng already relates a Lot to Yu Ziyuan, and I think if JC is transfemme, it's a big deal to her that Yu Ziyuan wields so much power. She's an incredible cultivator, a fierce fighter, and generally is a force to be reckoned with. At the same time, she's still a woman living in a misogynistic society. YZY would probably make a better sect leader than JFM, but she's a woman and his wife, and therefore he gets the final say in things

This in turn I think affects Jiang Cheng's feelings about gender and being sect leader. Jiang Cheng has a tendency to prioritize sect concerns > personal desires, and I think in this situation, masculinity is seen as a tool. Even if she knows privately that she is a woman, she would not be public about it because she's already in a precarious position being such a young sect leader. She needs all the respect she can get when rebuilding the Jiang sect, so she stays in the closet by choice. She might eventually come out years and years later, once the Jiang sect is stable and she knows she's not going to get fucked over, but that's really not her first priority

I do think she tells her siblings, though. Jiang Yanli is probably the first person she tells, and she's endlessly supportive. Wei Wuxian is kind of clueless about this sort of thing (see: not realizing he liked men until he got resurrected into the body of a gay man) but he loves Jiang Cheng so he'd be supportive, especially if he learned when they were both still kids. Of course, this makes the tragedy of Jiang Cheng losing everyone even worse. After her siblings died, there was no one who knew who she really was. Thank god for resurrections, huh? fucking hell

in a modern au, I think being a woman would fix her. She would be able to come out without all the other bullshit to worry about, and I think it would be very healing for her. I've known a number of people to go on estrogen who said the effects were more emotional than physical, and I think HRT would be so good for her. I just need Jiang Cheng to be happy goddammit. has she not been through enough

that got long. I guess I had more thoughts than I expected lsdkjflksdjf I also have a snippet from a modern au wip that I don't know if I'll ever continue/finish, but I'll put it under a read more bc I find it funny. I think Wen Qing should crack Jiang Cheng's egg, as a treat <3

Wen Qing knew Jiang Cheng too well. It was something he both loved and hated. There were very few people outside his family that could see through his blustering and read him for who he was, and Wen Qing was one of them. Hell, she was better at it than his own brother.

She didn't hesitate to call him on it either. He wouldn't be forgetting the way she'd looked at him after he introduced her to his parents and told him this explains a lot about you. Rude. Correct, but rude.

Because she knew him so well, she knew the best times to drop these bombs on him. Exposing him when he was in the wrong mood might make his temper flare, or it might make him curl into an insecure ball. Neither were reactions he liked having around her.

Wen Qing knew the best time to drop revelations on him was when he was happy and as close to relaxed as he could get, which is of course why she apparently decided the best time to bring up this particular bombshell was when he was floating in postcoital bliss.

“I'm going to tell you something,” Wen Qing said, her ankle still hooked gently around his calf. “You can't freak out about it.”

Jiang Cheng paused in the middle of pressing lazy kisses to her temple, heart rate immediately spiking. “Now?” he said, incredulous and a little whiny. 

“It's not a bad thing,” she reassured him, gently scratching his scalp. It relaxed him like a charm, though he was still suspicious. “Do you promise to listen?”

“Do I have much of a choice?” he asked, propping himself up on her chest. Her lips quirked in a smile as she looked down at him.

“I think you're a woman,” she said, direct and matter-of-fact.

Jiang Cheng jolted upright so hard he slammed his head into the headboard. Wen Qing frowned and sat up as he rolled off her. “You're going to give yourself a concussion,” she said, accusatory.

“You're insane!” Jiang Cheng said, attempting to sit upright without making his head swim. Wen Qing huffed and pushed him down with a firm hand to his chest. He could throw her off if he wanted to, but, well, he didn't want to. He rather liked it when she pushed him around and climbed on top of him like she was right now, pinning him in place and preventing him from running away from the conversation.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

I don't know if you already answered this so feel free to ignore.

What is your thoughts on Yu Ziyuan? am I the only one that thinks fandon defence of her saying she is just the typical Asian tiger mom is insulting to Asian mothers? You can be strict and not be abusive and guess what? YZ is not it.

Hell the author themselves made an entire chapter to say that she took things too far too often against a single person to be simple discipline towards a disciple. It was personal and she took great pleasure in it, just bc WY decides to stay despite his treatment doesn't make it any less horrible.

Am i the only one that thinks she only accepted WC orders to whip WY because she always took any chance to do so? That if Wang Lingjao hadn't mentioned she would have to be subservient to someone of lower class she would have gleefully cut off WYs hand and not reacted at all to the Wen invasion?

That in her last moments she made sure to remind WY one last time that he would be nothing but a servant to her, to tie him with a last wish so he would have the moral obligation to give up everything to JC like a proper servant should? I wholly believe part of her sudden tenderness to JC in her last goodbye was to also rub in WY face not only what he never had but what JC was losing just to rub salt in the wound.

Just, in what universe does people see a girlboss misunderstood by the world and its sexism? sometimes i think i read the wrong books or saw a different show... am i really the only one that sees this?

Good evening anon, I've been sitting on this a bit as I was weighing how exactly to answer this coherently. So, for the short answer; I do not like her as a character nor is she supposed to be seen as anything deeper than what she is. A terrible mother and person who let resentment rule her.

The Long Answer: She is not misunderstood, she is very easy to break down. She was a jealous youth who actively agreed to a marriage where the fiancé was already lukewarm to her disposition and continued to cast blame on Cangse Sanren stealing something she never had. Note as well, as she was the one to force a marriage and insisted on this even after Cangse Sanren had married Wei Changze. She is selfish and entitled. This carries over to how she treats her children, she is not happy with her own self, so she hyper focused on the flaws she instilled within Jiang Cheng. Instead of actually supporting him as a mother should, she insults him and instead of love she actively despises and insults her own child. This is not a healthy parental figure. She was hardly there enough obviously to even think of offering care and love in a very negligent household. She laughs instead when Wei Wuxian is brought in she is more concerned about being proven right about adding another child into the household will disrupt their already volatile dislike of each other.

Not once does she praise her children she fixates on despising Wei Wuxian and being annoyed he is able to be talented naturally so much she constantly pits her son against him herself and encourages that resentment to grow in him. She does not care about anything other than her own festering hate, and sure as hell never nurtured her own with love. She is miserable, pathetic and no whatever love she may have held for Jiang Cheng was toxic and all the worse to him as she never uplifted him as an actual loving parent should.

Her treatment of Wei Wuxian is certainly just as vile given he wasn't even her own yet she stayed forever jealous all over her own stories that exasperated her own hate for Cangse Sanren and superimposed that to Wei Wuxian. She has no excuse for her treatment of any of the children under her household. Hate is a sad way to live and end life, and it stops being sympathetic when she lived and died garnering the feelings and reactions she earned with it.

[veliseraptor]

Listen Jiang Fengmian doesn't know his ass from his elbow he is fully capable of bringing home the first kid savvy enough to lie to him.

someone else mentioned this in the comments of that post (about how xue yang could end up with the jiangs instead of wei wuxian) and then you sent this and you're not actually necessarily wrong. i don't actually think jfm is actually stupid but dude probably at the very least has no idea what the kid he's looking for looks like, one misheard syllable and a quick-witted xue yang knowing an opportunity when he sees one and we do have an opportunity

(obviously we are completely ignoring timeline fuckiness here, or rather embracing cql timeline fuckiness)

the thing is though I think growing up in this environment, as toxic as the jiang family issues are, would make a huge difference in how xue yang turns out/what his future looks like. I think he would feel a certain level of gratitude to the jiang for saving him from a much harder life, and I think growing up as part of a community (as opposed to largely on his own and fending for himself) would change at least some things about his perspective on the world and how to behave with other people. at the very least it gives him some experience with the concept of "people doing things for you because they care about you" before he's gone too far down the murder road.

I've always said that I think that, while it wouldn't come easily or naturally to him, Xue Yang can learn prosocial behaviors, given positive reinforcement/incentive. I doubt he and Jiang Cheng would ever get along well - the clash of personalities is pretty intense and Xue Yang does not let things roll off him the way Wei Wuxian does (or at least performs to), but at the same time I think Xue Yang could see Jiang Cheng as sort of His to piss off and bother and provoke in a way that would immediately make him turn on a common enemy in a pinch. he'd adore Jiang Yanli, though.

as far as Yu Ziyuan goes...he'd be too aware of the power dynamics involved, I think, to ever openly show his feelings (or, god forbid, act on them), but he would hate her. especially if we're post-finger smashing (which I kind of like the idea of), that's going to be even more intense, because that's also the point where I think Xue Yang really learns resentment in a real way. he respects her as a formidable force but he does not like her, and would not spit on her if she was on fire.

zero respect for Jiang Fengmian, though. right from the get-go. in this situation he would, after all, be the sucker who picked Xue Yang up instead of this "Wei Ying" kid he was actually looking for (and is there something about knowing that all of this isn't meant for him, not really? yeah, every once in a while when stories about "his" parents come up in particular).

anyway I'm going to be turning this over in my head for a while, this is an interesting concept that I'm now able take away from a really annoying post so thanks for that, anon

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

MDZS Disco Elysium AU part 2 - Psyche Skills

Part 1 - Part 3

[peridot-tears]

Okay, separate from my response to the Jiang Cheng hater post, but I think we're starting to view the word "abuse" the way we view "brainwash" when it comes to Chinese culture.

I always hated how people talked about how people in China are brainwashed by communists. "Brainwashed" meant you can't think for yourself. You're supposed to be criticizing the government, but instead you're insulting the intelligence and free will of the people. The same people who took to the streets in 1989.

(There is a beautiful article that goes deeper into how loaded this word is! Please read it, this is how I learned that "brainwashed" was originally a Chinese word that was loaned into English instead of the other way around! It originally meant to move on from the literal Century of Humiliation China experienced due to imperialism and invasion, but translated into something different!)

Similarly, what does "abuse" mean? To hurt the people in your care? But all parents hurt their children, even if unintentionally. Is it wrong to ground your kid now? Where is the line? In a lot of the discourse I see, people who jump to say Yu Ziyuan or Jiang Cheng is abusive is missing the point. If you took away the word "abuse," I think anyone, Chinese or not, would say what Yu Ziyuan did was wrong. She made everyone miserable. She pitted her children against their best friend they considered a brother. She made the past generation's arguments a burden for the next.

With Jiang Cheng, it's a bit more complicated. He's clearly doing something right if Jin Ling feels safe around him. It is considered normal, even in a modern context, to threaten to break his legs (there goes Uncle Jiang again, being dramatic). Him slapping Jin Ling is, again, era-appropriate, but it's still definitely not cool of him.

But when people say he's "abusive," it sweeps away all the nuance. It dismisses the amount of intergenerational trauma it took to get to this point. And it's personal to us because frankly, many Chinese diaspora are diaspora now because of war and famine. White Americans cannot say the same. It doesn't mean we don't think certain things our parents do are wrong. We have brains. We fucking know, and we're working really hard to not to pass that on. But our line and personal tolerance for how our parents treated us differs from person to person. I'm definitely more prickly about how my parents talk to me than a lot of my friends.

I've been seeing a lot of discourse over what is and isn't abuse over the years, and it's not just from Chinese people. It's my Colombian friends when they talk about the grandmother from Encanto. Yeah, we don't like her behaviors, but abuse? Did she strike Mirabel? Did she verbally insult her? Did she send her to her room for no reason? She didn't. And this is a woman who did things a certain way because that's how she rebuilt after watching her husband get killed while fleeing from drug cartel violence (implied, definitely believed by my Colombian friends, unsure if canonically confirmed).

"Abuse" can be such a code word for "horrible human who's out to get her children" without the nuance or regard for our own autonomy as people who had to grow up with toxic behavior from our guardians. It's a loaded word.

[noswordinourlake]

@tavina-writes asked for arranged marriage fic recs, which turned into...this. Sorry Tav some of these are just very politically plotty but I figured those also fell into your mandate! I was going for a vibe. ANYWAY.

All fics MZDS/the Untamed!

Also under a read more because this got. Long.

CANON DIVERGENCES

marry for love by tuesday (3k, T, complete)

"Nie Huaisang snapped open his fan and covered his face. "Be careful. I'll take advantage.""

50-50 cute and intrigue!

from the other side of sorrow (series) by Sour_Idealist (128k, E, complete)

"Yu Ziyuan cuts off Wei Wuxian's hand. The cultivation world changes."

I couldn't tell you the split on emotional devastation and intrigue on this one because it's all happening all the time.

CANON? I DON'T KNOW HER

The Other Mountain by nirejseki (287k, T, complete)

"Lan Qiren still couldn’t quite bring himself to believe it.

He was married.

He had a wife.

That wife was Wen Ruohan."

I feel like anyone who likes politically plotty fics is already following nirejseki but I also feel like this list would be incomplete if I left off THE arranged marriage fic of all time so.

love, in fire and blood by cicer (360k, E, complete)

""You want Wen Ruohan dead," the Patriarch continued idly. "You want his corpse puppets eliminated. You want his halls burned to the ground and his soldiers disemboweled and begging for mercy. Have I about covered it?"

He gave another knife-edged smile.

"But what will you give me in return?"

"We would be willing to offer quite a bit in return for Wen Ruohan's defeat," Lan Xichen admitted. "But I'm afraid we don't know what an immortal such as yourself desires. Please advise us."

The Patriarch waved at hand at the front of the tent. "I want Second Young Master Lan.""

¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ ͡⁠°⁠ ͜⁠ʖ⁠ ͡⁠°⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

not too strong by fluffysocks (89k, E, complete)

"He sinks back, closes his eyes again so he doesn’t have to look at all that red silk for a moment. He takes a deep breath.

It’s done. Jiang Cheng is married.

Now he just has to live with it."

Yes this is a Jiang Cheng/Lan Qiren arranged marriage AU. Trust me. Trust me. It's GOOD STUFF.

Restoration by ritualist (85k, M, complete)

"They say he was thrown into Luanzang Gang by the man who killed his parents; they say that he is an immortal cultivator who had been in a deep trance until the Wen sect disturbed his rest and incurred his wrath; they say that he is the fierce corpse of a cultivator who had somehow regained his mind and his spiritual powers. When Lan Wangji sees him for the first time, he understands why people talk.

Meng Yao wants safety. Xue Yang wants vengeance. The Sunshot Campaign wants victory. Yiling Laozu provides, for a price."

I'm a sucker for a nonlinear narrative! I don't want to know what is happening and no spoilers you won't for most of this fic. In a good way.

Give Me A Chance To Fall by brooklinegirl (38k, E, complete)

"Jiang Cheng just blows his breath out and rolls his eyes right back at Wei Wuxian. "Stop being an asshole," he says. "You're lucky this is being set up for you. Do you know how many people would die--literally die--to get the chance to be betrothed to Lan Wangji?"

"Betrothed." Wei Wuxian rolls the word around in his mouth. "It even sounds stupid.""

The classique arranged marriage AU.

JOKES JOKES JOKES

I Started From The Bottom/ And Now I'm Rich by x_los (58k, E, complete)

"Wen Qing traps Wei Wuxian in the Demon Slaughtering Cave, but Wei Wuxian isn’t interested in being the beneficiary of the Wen Remnants’ noble sacrifice. His efforts to free himself accidentally send him back to the beginning of the Sunshot Campaign. Coreless but armed with demonic cultivation, knowledge of the future and his wits, Wei Wuxian takes advantage of this opportunity to come out on top of both the war and its aftermath—before either has a chance to happen—by marrying and swiftly burying the cultivation world’s worst men.

Lan Wangji is confused, hurt, and uncomfortably aroused by Wei Wuxian’s improbably elaborate series of Sect-themed bridal negligees."

I hesitated to include this fic in this section because it does get pretty dark and psychologically heavy but it is also. Hilarious. So!

Best Friends Forever by varnes (17k, T, complete)

"It happened like this: Jin Ling was a sect leader now, which was, and Jingyi really meant this, fucking hilarious. There were few things funnier, in his honest opinion.

Because he was young, and inexperienced, and also — it had to be said — a real shithead, there was apparently some belief amongst his advisors that the best way forward, to promote the picture of a stable, mature sect leader who absolutely did not cry at the drop of a hat, was for Jin Ling to get married.

-

OR: Jin Ling and Jingyi get engaged.

Things spiral from there."

Jingyi POV from varnes is a gift. Jingyi POV trying to figure out the post-canon political landscape is a treasure.

[smththtwlllst]

Part 2 to This Post : Aligning Fears to the MDZS cast the squeakual. I also redid some of them bc I had some very interesting points brought up to me.

Wei Wuxian - The Corruption. That boi is Possessed(tm). Also a little bit of The Vast given a certain fall/falls off of cliffs.

Jiang Yanli - The Desolation. She gives me Very Big Agnes vibes so she belongs w the Desolation. maybe it's the fact that her love for her brothers was so strong she died to protect them.

Nie Mingjue - Also The Corruption. Literally his mind is being corrupted by his saber???

Jiang Cheng - Still the Slaughter but also kinda the lonely. I dare you to tell me that after his whole family died except for his nephew + he never married or had kids that he ISNT lonely.

Wen Chao - I'm torn between the Slaughter and the Flesh, as he wanted Wei Wuxian's hand but also was super into senselessly killing the Jiangs.

Wen Zhuliu - The Flesh. Core Melting Hand that does irreperable damage to a person? Sounds like the flesh to me.

Wang Lingjiao - The Desolation, but also a little bit of The Flesh. Girlie tried BRANDING someone + burned down a sect. Arsonist bitch.

Wen Ruohan - The Corruption. C'monnnnn. Resentful Energy does what Resentful Energy does best which is corrupt people.

Jin Zixuan - The Spiral speaks to me abt him. I Don't Know Why. Again, maybe it's because he reminds me of Michael, being sacrificed to die by a person you trusted for your own personal gain.

Jin Guangshan - The Flesh but also The Corruption. Him being graped to death is very Flesh of him. but he was also corrupted by the thought of the Stygian Tiger Amlulet. Yin Tiger Seal. Whatever it is.

Jiang Fengmian - The Lonely. He is a sad, sad lonely man who lost his best friends/the people he cherished the most & was stuck in a loveless(?) marriage.

Yu Ziyuan - The Slaughter. Literally whipping Weu Wuxian relentlessly & being constantly harsh around people is so Slaughter of her.

I know there's still a few people left but I cannot think of what suits them best so I will leave it to a third part.

[admirableadmiranda]

Hi, I have a question, if you are able to answer. Is WWX actually beholden to the Jiang family? I know the whole loyalty to your sect and stuff. I just want to know if he actually owed them such a big debt or if it was a way to ensure his continued servitude? JFM went out of his way to find WWX (which I wonder about sometimes, because 5 years is a long time to find a child), of his own free will and whims. Is charity supposed to incur debt? Or am I putting my modern western thoughts in places it doesn't fit?

A follow-up question that you can answer in my first. Was WWX's father actually a servant? I know YZY called him a 'son of a servant', but she also accused his mother of being unfaithful, so I take her word with a grain of salt. Plus, I can see her thinking everyone below her is a servant. We know he was a cultivator and if I'm not mistaken, he went to the Lan lectures too. So was he just a disciple that was close to JFM or was he a servant in the way that YZY's two hand-maidens were servants. I am asking because I've seen people try to say that WWX took on his dad's servitude for the Jiangs. But, as far as I know, WC left the Jiangs and so was free as a rogue cultivator. Some also say, that even though he left the Jiangs, they would hold authority over WWX because that is the sect his father was a part of at one point. I haven't read the book in a long time and on top of that I binged-read it so it is a mess in my memory. So any insight would be appreciated. Thank you!

Hi! Thank you for your patience in me getting back to you, I know it was a while there; blame the holidays. Since we have two long questions, I'll cut the post here.

So the short answer is no; Wei Wuxian is not beholden to the Jiang Clan and does have the freedom to leave as he does. It's even pretty clear in universe that leaving your own clan especially to start a sect of your own is not that unusual, Su She does it himself! In addition, taking in orphans to train them as disciples is not that unusual in wuxia/xianxia, and while the closest that we get in Modaozushi of strong confirmation on how it works is Lan Sizhui and Xue Yang, both of whom are directly taken in off screen, but are definitely parts of their clans despite not being born into it.

With Jiang Fengmian, it's tricky because we don't know how much he knew when Wei Changze and Cangse-sanren died. We only know that he found Wei Wuxian later and knew his name and description well enough to recognize him on the street. It's entirely possible that he didn't even hear about his friends dying for a while since Yiling is known to be closed off and suspicious of outsiders, and even then finding where Wei Wuxian was specifically was probably its own challenge. But one of the things not covered in universe but in interviews is that there was a nighthunt that Wei Changze, Jiang Fengmian and Lan Qiren went on that went wrong at least in part due to Lan Qiren being stubborn and rigid, and Cangse-sanren saved all of their lives. So they all owe her a life debt for that and that alone would wipe out any debt Wei Wuxian could owe to the clan.

But Yu Ziyuan is the bigger problem here and Yu Ziyuan very much pushes Wei Wuxian into the idea that he owes them for everything in what we get on screen, something that is reiterated in Jiang Fengmian and Yu Ziyuan's last scenes where she pushes the idea that he owes them and needs to protect and help Jiang Cheng and whether knowingly or not, here Jiang Fengmian confirms in just telling Wei Wuxian to take care of Jiang Cheng.

Now here's the thing on your question about debts; is that the answer is yes and no. The ideal that MXTX posits forwards is that of course you should actually honor your debts when you have them, but you should not do actions for the sake of gaining debts. "Let the self judge right and wrong, let others decide whether to praise or to blame, let gains and losses go uncommented on." People know when you are someone that can be trusted in the give and take of society. You can't just call debts out, but refuse to pay your own. Eventually no one will deal with you because they know that you can't be trusted solely from your own actions. Charity can incur debts, but in the sense that it is up to the people involved and the actions taken.

When Wen Qing comes to Wei Wuxian for help, it is Jiang Cheng's debt too. The things that she and Wen Ning did for the two of them are not an easy debt to return, and he knows this. He knows that the two of them sheltered Jiang Cheng after the fall of his clan at great personal risk and allowed him to maintain his honor to his family by getting him the ashes of his parents so they could be laid to rest with their parents. This is not a light debt, this is the sort of thing that is remembered and judged at the end of his life. Yet he refuses to pay it when it is his debt and punishes Wei Wuxian for following through.

He knows he owes it, but refuses to pay it, all the while demanding that Wei Wuxian follow through on a debt that he does not have and has more than repaid in full. A golden core for a golden core, one that Jiang Cheng knows he has because of Wei Wuxian, even if he doesn't know that it is Wei Wuxian's own core. A debt repaid in full, yet he keeps demanding it. A debt that he owes, but refuses to pay it.

I hope that clarifies on the charity question. I know I went a little off topic, but it's a lot easier to explain from that side.

As for Wei Changze being a servant, I'm pretty sure he actually was before he left the Jiang Clan. He was a rogue cultivator, but is consistently even by the omniscient narrator referred to as a servant long before Yu Ziyuan was a part of the clan, and while she's certainly the loudest about it, she's far from the only one to call Wei Wuxian son of a servant and he even acknowledges this himself by asking Jiang Cheng what's wrong with being a servant, he's the son of a servant himself. The text is just too consistent on this front to not make it clear that in universe, Wei Changze was a servant who learned to cultivate, left his clan to marry his rogue cultivator wife and died as a rogue cultivator, but due to the classism of society and the Jiang Clan, was always remembered as a servant. I have a whole meta on how the classism was in Yunmeng Jiang long before she ever got there, she just was the loudest one about it.

But he did actually leave and Wei Wuxian was not born in the clan. In addition, the way that the posts that talk about it as if Wei Wuxian is supposed to inherit his position despite neither of them being a part of the clan at the time of his birth makes it sound less like being a servant and more like being a slave. It's not supposed to be a position that's passed down from father to son with no one allowed to ever leave it and the fact that some JC stans act like that's all Wei Wuxian was ever allowed to have... is uncomfortable in many ways.

Does that answer all your questions well enough? Thanks again for your patience in me getting back to you.