#Anti-Yoda

[inquisitor-apologist]

The first time we see Yoda, leader of the Council, in tcw, he’s explicitly affirming the individuality and importance of the clones. He then teaches them how to connect to the Force, the most sacred tenet of the religion he’s dedicated his life to.

The first time we see Plo Koon, a Jedi Master, in tcw, he clearly tells his clone troopers that they are not expendable to him, and then proceeds to do his absolute best to save as many clones as possible.

The first time we see Anakin in tcw he has his clones fly an unnecessary suicide mission because he wants the glory of killing Grievous. He doesn’t even stop when he hears them all dying—his Padawan, a 14-year-old, has to yell at him that no one else will survive what he’s doing before he changes his plan.

And people STILL say that Anakin is the Jedi who cared about the clones the most. Seriously?

[kyliafanfiction]

When in doubt, blame Yoda

[transformers0]

Reblogging this mainly because of the Yoda critique.

Yoda is f*cking overrated and actually has a number of questionable teachings and actions.

Watching The Empire Strikes back

The old sounding theme

Didn’t Mark Hamill get into an accident before filming this one?

What is up with the Dalek looking probes?

Mark Hamill looks so young.

He sounds so young.

Bruh, Luke wtf?

Y’all I fucking see it! I paused it at 4:27 and for a moment thought that Han was being played by Adam Driver. I definitely see the resemblance now.

Rip Chewie’s original actor

Wheretf is Leia?

There she is.

SPACE MOM LOOKS SO YOUNG

Rip Carrie Fisher while we’re here

Damn, Carrie talks so quietly during this scene.

Damn, Leia’s sass is amazing.

Leia hiding her feelings. Are we positive that Leia wouldn’t be an awesome Gen-Z?

Everyone walking in-between Leia and Han as they fight, iconic!

The angry “YOU COULD USE A GOOD KISS!” Sounds so much like Ben/Kylo. It’s nuts.

Above scene is at 6:27.

3P0! R2!

“OH SWITCH OFF!”

Han looks feral, that’s all I’m saying.

Han’s concern for Luke and Leia warms my heart.

“Between ourselves, I think Master Luke is in conciderable danger.”

“That’s right. My friends right out in it.”

Han, admit it, you’re attached to Luke.

“Then I’ll see you in hell.”

Damn Han.

Ya’ll I forgot that most of the “cgi” was stop motion in these first three.

The old force theme.

Rancor? Thingy is cool.

R2 willing to freeze for his Skywalker master makes me want to cry.

R2 DONT SOUND SAD!

Are we close to shoving Luke into a tauntaun yet?

The rebellion people being concerned for Leia’s worry over Luke and Han while C3P0 just walks up.

Leia closing the doors to the base and Chewie looks so sad.

I’m legit about to cry. They mimicked Chewies cry from this to put into TROS when they tell Poe, Finn and Chewie that Leia’s dead.

Shelby is joining me in my watch of Star Wars.

We’re shoving Luke into a tauntaun now!

Obi-Wan absolutely dissing Qui-Gon.

Glad to know the Tauntaun died of the cold,

Han wielding the lightsaber!

They’re so happy to have found Luke and Han

The bacta tank

Luke is like, WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED WHILE I WAS ABOUT TO GET EATEN!?

The iconic Laserbrain scene.

Chewie laughing and Han looks so betrayed.

NERF HERDER!

Have I mentioned I love Leia?

The sad look on Han’s face when Leia calls him scruffy.

Luke’s like PLEASE DONT GET ME IN THIS!

I forgot Luke and Leia kiss!

3P0 casually mentioning that it isn’t a rebellion signal

Oop, here comes Anakin “So, do you like my plan?” Vader Skywalker.

The Falcon absolutely wreaking Han.

Han and Luke silently communicating.

Vader’s egg.

Vader casually killing someone while talking.

Have I mentioned I love Leia?

The stop motion is amazing.

THE AT-AT!

3P0 casually reminding R2 to be safe.

Luke trying to save his friend

Han running back for Leia.

Han catching 3P0.

Anthony Daniel’s autotune.

The very old sounding theme.

Luke gets his dumbass traits from Anakin.

Carries scream.

Where in the hell is the scene where 3P0 rips the warning on a door?

R2 being worried about Luke.

“Take Evasive action!” Almost dies.

The scene where Han is on the pole and his ass is on display, thank god Harrison Ford got paid for that.

Leia trying to fly falcon shows that she’s a Skywalker and has that natural ability to fly.

Had to switch over to my computer.

“Never tell me the odds!”

Oof, Dagobah.

Here comes the green dwarf who drinks coke every day.

Luke’s X-wing.

R2 falling into the water

R2 scream

Yoda should show up soon.

Vader’s egg.

Anakin’s crusty head.

Han catching Leia

Leia getting pissed

Han flirting

Here comes Yoda, the coke drinker.

Yoda’s so damn high. I’m meaning weed type of high

R2 getting beat by Yoda.

You know for a fact Yoda was beating R2 because he remembers Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker’s way too damn modified Astromech.

How the fuck is Frank Oz still alive?

3P0 wants his husband.

Oop, here comes the kiss scene with Han and Leia.

Han calling Leia by her first name for the first time.

“Scoundrel?”

“I happen to like nice men.”

Finally!

Fucking 3P0!

Han looks so vulnerable.

Oop Palpatine.

Vader’s egg.

Ian McDiarmid has been playing Palpatine since 1980.

Anakin learning that Luke Skywalker is his son and having to pick between killing him and wanting to finish raising Luke. It’s quite sad actually.

R2 getting drenched scares me.

Luke hiding his distaste for Yoda’s food.

Yoda and Obi-Wan talking.

I’m gonna be honest, I hate Yoda. He’s an old man who is doesn’t want change until literally episode 8. He may have taught Luke something but Luke had to learn the way of the force by himself.

Also, Yoda scares me.

Have I mentioned that I love Leia?

“I have a bad feeling about this.”

C3P0 yelling at the Mynock.

Leia faceplanting into the Falcon.

“I am not a committee!”

I don’t like the Luke/Yoda training scene.

The only thing that I believe that Yoda taught look was to absolutely fear his connection with the force.

The whole under the tree Luke/Vader “fight” was to allude to “hey, Vader is this Anakin guy we keep talking about.”

Is that Boba I see?

The light speed fail x2.

“Shut up!”

I don’t like this Luke/Yoda training scene either.

“No! Try not. Do or do not. There is no try.”

Unpopular opinion: Palpatine should’ve killed Yoda.

The soft flute force theme.

Bruh, I forgot Han landed the Falcon on Vader’s ship.

Leia turning 3P0 off.

“He’s a card player, gambler, scoundrel. You’d like him.

“Thanks.”

You can see Anthony Daniels or his stand in breathing in the 3P0 outfit.

Boba following them.

Again, I hate each and every single Yoda/Luke training scene.

“Han. Leia!”

Yoda constantly belittling Luke’s compassion for his friends that he sees as his family. This is why I don’t like Yoda.

The landing on cloud city.

I forgot how much Cloud city looks like Corucant.

Lando Calrissian

Han pointing to himself, *me?*

Lando Calrissian.

“What have you done to my ship?”

“Your ship? Hey, remember, you lost her to me fair and square.”

They are literal children and I love it.

Lando immediately flirting.

Also, what the fuck was George Lucas thinking on letting 5ft something men get chest to chest with Carrie and try to intimidate her with their height whilst trying to flirt with her?

Wtf was he thinking! Carrie Fisher is 4ft something and I feel bad for her.

“She’s the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy.”

Chewie going to look for C3P0.

The soft force theme.

The force theme turning to the imperial march.

Obi-Wan Kenobi, you let 12-year old Ahsoka Tano on a battlefield with Anakin fucking Skywalker, the man who stared General Grevious in the face and basically told him to fuck off, and you’re not letting Anakin’s literal son go save his sister and future brother in law! So shut the fuck up dead guy and let Luke save his friends.

Yoda can go die for all I care. I forgot how much of an asshole he is.

God, I fucking hate Yoda.

Leia’s Bespin outfit.

Leia worried over 3P0 is the sweetest thing. This shows just how great of a mom she’ll be.

“I don’t trust Lando.”

Have I said that I appreciate how pretty Harrison Ford is?

Yo! Mandalorian!

Also, chewie finding C3P0!

Leia covering her body when she realizes Lando is watching her is something I thought I’d never relate to but whelp, here we are.

Lando Calrissian is very creepy actually in how he treats Leia every chance he can get.

Han’s ready to punch him.

“Would you join me for a refreshment?”

“No!” I never realized how protective Chewie is of Leia until this scene. Chewbacca immediately is ready to rip Lando apart.

“Having a problem with your droid?”

Han immediately realizes how vulnerable Leia can get when C3P0 is involved and when people she’s intimidated by. Han drew away Lando’s attention on 3P0 to him.

Han drank his appreciating women juice.

Is Boba wearing a death watch thingy on his shoulder?

Leia looks so damn scared.

Han grabbing Leia’s hand tighter to protect her.

Chewie trying to work on C3P0.

The imperial march.

Han’s super pale. “I feel terrible.”

Leia’s vulnerable and even though Han’s hurting he jumps in to protect her and how angry Leia gets, that’s when everyone knows that Leia’s feeling and anger is her protection emotion.

Honestly, I’m ready to skip the rest of Lando’s scenes.

Carbonite.

Okay so when Vader tells the Troopers to put Han into the carbon freezer, Chewbacca attacks, if you notice, Vader just lets him. It’s not because, “hey let’s not anger the Wookiee more.” It’s because according to a scene in The Clone Wars animated TV show, Chewbacca saved Anakin’s padawan, Ahsoka. I like to think Vader was finally paying his debt to the Shriwook for saving Ahsoka.

Han calming down Chewie by telling him to look after Leia.

Han and Leia’s second kiss

“I love you.”

“I know.”

Leia looks so damn sad and scared.

Chewie literally pulling Leia into his body to try and lessen the pain she was in.

The fact that Luke doesn’t realize that it’s Han.

Luke slowly realizing that he didn’t see Han with Leia and Chewie.

The only lightsaber fight between Luke and a Vader that I remember.

I’m not gonna comment on Chewie chocking Lando.

That force jump.

The biggest plot twist in cinematic history, according to the Internet, is about to happen.

R2 getting electrocuted

R2 going to fix his husband.

Oop, Luke’s hands about to get cut off.

Mark Hamill’s scream.

“Luke, there is no escape. Don’t make me destroy you. Luke, you do not yet realize your importance. You have only begun to discover your power. Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy.”

“I’ll never join you!”

“If you only knew the power of the dark side. Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father.”

“He told me enough. He told me you killed him.”

“No. I am your father.”

“No, no, that’s not true. That’s impossible!”

“Search your feelings. You know it to be true.”

The iconic “Noooo.”

“Luke. You can destroy the emperor. He has foreseen this. It is your destiny. Join me, and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son. Come with me. It is the only way.”

Skywalker men are such idiots and always are so dramatic.

The poor film editor, having to make it look like Luke is falling and is just playing with the footage they got of Mark Hamill writhing around.

And here we see just how powerful Leia and Luke are.

“Leia. Hear me. Leia”

“Luke.”

Luke’s just swinging his legs.

Light speed fail x3

“Luke.”

“Father.”

“Come with me.”

“Ben. Why didn’t you tell me?”

“Luke, it’s your destiny.”

Mark Hamill is such a talented actor

Welp, Anakin’s gonna kill everyone.

“May the Force be with you.”

Luke’s fake hand.

The chills I get during the ending music.

And that was The Empire Strikes Back. All in all a good classic.

[jedi-enthusiast]

Vague Obi-Wan lore from Bloodshed, Crimson Clover shitpost:

-----

Obi-Wan, eyes glowing, in an empty room: *talking in some ancient language no one can understand*

Some Random Jedi: ...is that not...concerning?

Qui-Gon: Last night I caught him floating on the ceiling and chanting ritualistically. When I asked what he was doing he told me that Master Katri was teaching him an old Je'daii mantra...so I consider this an improvement.

Some Random Jedi: ...isn't she dead?

Qui-Gon: Yes, which is why I will not be asking again.

BONUS:

Dooku, who literally just wants to eat and go to bed: *walks into his Temple quarters*

Obi-Wan:

Ḩ̸̡̬̝̰̤̺̜͎̩̾͆̏̿̔̐̈́ȩ̸̨̛̫̟̟͕̲̭̻̖̘̘̀͊͂̕͜͝ͅl̴̛̞̘͙̲̪̭̟͓̳̳̟̀ĺ̶̛͎̲̩͔̋̋̎̇͐̿̏̽̍͒̍̎͝ȍ̸̱͚̮̤̩͖̰̣̔͗̾̍̏̆ ̶̡̛̠̞̝̻̖͔̜̫̈́͜M̷̧̗̜͕̘͈͙̠̜̼̔͊̎͋̓́̒ͅa̴̺̜̫̻̠̻̭̯͉̣͖̮̠͒ͅş̷̘͓͔̟͎̈́́̉t̷̩͔͓̳̠͈̩͇̖͈̯̰͛̆̄͂̓̏͝e̸̱̜̾r̴̛͍͙ ̸̛̟̞̠̺͓̙̩͒̍͝Ḋ̵̛̼̯̘̗̖͗͌̃͋̿͝o̸̢͕̜̭͎̫̙͌́̿͊̈͛ͅo̵̹̼͚̻̫͓̻̳̻̭̳̐̅̉͑͆̊͂̔k̶̡̨̳͓͎͖͉͔̟̹̪̼̣̎̈̈́̇̒̈́͌̀̀̌̿̑͘ū̶̬͎̀͒̊͑̽̀͘͝

Dooku, backing out the door: Nope...nope...not tonight...I'll room with Qui-Gon...just...hell no...

The real reason he was so ready to stab Obi-Wan in AotC

[devondeal]

Let's talk about this meme

Obviously it's highlighting both extremes of emotional reactions. Rey and Finn as the melodramatic end and Luke as the "dull" end.

But I really hate the latter. I often see discussion on how Luke doesn't have a strong reaction to the murder of Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen.

I severely disagree. I have always found this scene to be heartwrenching because Luke is in so much shock and grief, he is unable to fully process his loss because of how horrific and sudden it was.

That expression above kills me every time because that is the face of innocence stolen. This is when Luke realizes what the Empire truly is which is why instead of taking the space to grieve, he immediately wants to avenge his aunt and uncle by becoming a Jedi and joining the Rebellion.

Luke may be a softy and his anger may not be obvious like it was in Anakin but nonetheless, when he tells Obi Wan he wants to become a Jedi, he has fury inside him. No matter how softly he says it.

(I imagine that's why Yoda was concerned in ep 5, while anger can be productive when processed, it can become all consuming when left untended)

On a personal note, I've always related to Luke's way of showing the negative spectrum of emotions. They may be subdued but it doesn't mean the pain, sadness, anger, etc. are any less and it's always made me feel seen. Which is why I will never accept Luke slander saying that he's unemotional and out of touch.

[antianakin]

Also, I had another question for you, if you don’t mind giving your thoughts on it: I recently came across a post criticizing Obi-Wan and Yoda for not telling Luke that Anakin was ‘Darth Vader’: AKA: his father. And I think it’s been kind of established that they were going to tell Luke when they felt he was ready, but when things spiraled out of control at the beginning of ‘A New Hope’ that they thought it would just be too painful? And like… OBVIOUSLY they are not telling Luke he needs to kill Anakin to be cruel. They’re telling him Anakin WILL force Luke’s hand into having to defend himself because Anakin will try to slice Luke’s fucking head off. Lol.

But anyway, the reason this tumblr post I came across bothered me is because it was really vindictive and bitter in accusing Yoda… of wanting revenge. Like… saying THAT’S the reason Yoda tried to get Luke to kill Anakin. And not… idk… the fact the galaxy was on fire. 🤦‍♀️ Essentially, they admitted that what the Jedi went through was a genocide. But instead of showing SYMPATHY, they turned it around by saying that Yoda was CRUEL and demonizing him even if he DID want revenge… as a GENOCIDE victim. And it just felt… SO gross. 😭🤢 Because it was OBVIOUS what they cared about the most was Anakin’s pain in the suit and Luke’s conflict with killing Anakin. But Yoda being a GENOCIDE VICTIM meant nothing to them. And that isn’t even the REASON Yoda and Obi-Wan say Luke may have to kill Anakin! It’s because Anakin is dangerous and burning the galaxy down with Palpatine at that point in time. Essentially; they believe it’s for the greater good.

But what REALLY grinds my gears is how even if their theory about Yoda WAS true… they would demonize the GENOCIDE VICTIM over wanting justice/revenge over the actual guy who helped slaughter them. 🤦‍♀️🤢 It just… pissed me off SO much. Lol.

But anyway, you don’t have to give your thoughts if you don’t want to, but I always love hearing your take on backwards logic like this from radical Anakin/Anidala/anti Jedi fans (this was from a radical Anidala fan, which I guess makes sense now that I think about it why they didn’t care about the Jedi’s plight and just the Skywalker family’s pain).

Someone else sent me an ask about something very similar to this yesterday. My response is in the queue, so I don't want to completely overlap this. But whatever post generated these asks, I'm so glad I've curated my dash enough not to have to see it.

I think people seem to overestimate the amount of time Obi-Wan and Yoda have in which they could have told Luke about Vader.

Obi-Wan is a stranger to Luke for most of his life, something that generally gets explained away in other media as Owen not wanting Obi-Wan around, but it's not super clear in the films themselves why Obi-Wan has kept his distance for so long. But regardless, he has. And Obi-Wan DOES give Luke quite a lot of information that his aunt and uncle have been keeping from him in the immediate aftermath of them meeting in ANH. He tells him that his father was a Jedi who was "killed" by Darth Vader, and he tells him Darth Vader was his student and that Vader betrayed them all. The only thing missing is that these are the same people, but also this is their FIRST conversation about this and Obi-Wan is pretty clearly trying to gently bring Luke into this wider world he's never known and not just drop a bunch of massive bombshells on his shoulders. He's also trying to convince Luke to leave Tatooine with him, and it likely won't help to tell him that his father is a traitor who is currently still an incredible danger to him.

And then Owen and Beru die and Luke is in mourning and Obi-Wan's primary focus is on getting to Alderaan and not throwing more pressure on Luke than he can handle in a situation where he's already going to feel under a lot of pressure. And then he dies. And while Obi-Wan is occasionally able to speak to Luke after he dies, it seems to be pretty sporadic at best and he can't stick around for very long until after Luke gets to Dagobah. So his ability to have a nice long conversation about Vader is incredibly minimal.

And finally there's Luke's time on Dagobah where he does seem to have more ready access to both Obi-Wan and Yoda, but Yoda is still seeing a LOT of reasons to keep this information from Luke. Luke struggles with believing in himself, he takes a weapon into the cave, he's reckless and impulsive, etc. And there's no telling just how long the two of them have together and it's more important to get Luke as trained as possible so that he stays alive (and also so that when it IS time for him to learn this information, he can HANDLE IT).

And that's it. There's always bigger priorities and good reason for both Yoda and Obi-Wan to believe that Luke isn't quite ready to learn this given how painful of a truth it would be. And you know what? When Luke IS given this information, he nearly gives up on everything as a reaction. He wasn't ready. Yoda and Obi-Wan were right.

The other ask I answered is more about Obi-Wan telling Luke he has to prepare himself for the super likely possibility that he'll have to kill his father, so I won't go into that much here. It's weird to put accusations on Yoda since, to my memory, Yoda and Luke never HAVE a conversation about Vader, let alone one where Yoda tells Luke to kill him. Is the argument supposed to be that Yoda kept the information from Luke so that Luke would always hate Anakin and therefore be more likely to kill him?

But. Yeah. The kinder, more objective answer to this is like you said, they're preparing him for the possibility that Anakin will try to kill HIM and so he might have to defend himself. They're preparing him for the possibility that Anakin CANNOT BE SAVED because he's shown exactly no inclination to stop murdering people for the last twenty some-odd years, even when faced with people he used to claim to love. Don't lose a thousand people just to save one. If Luke refuses to do what has to be done and dies as a result (or is turned into a Sith himself), the entire galaxy suffers. Leia MIGHT be able to pick up the torch after him (although she'd never have a living master to help her train), but it would probably take YEARS before she could manage to do what Luke could not.

The more bitter answer to this from someone who's not a fan of Anakin is that Anakin deserves it. Like you said, I'm more inclined to feel sympathy for the people who are genocide victims wanting justice or even vengeance for what was done to them than I am inclined to feel sympathy for the person who committed said genocide. It's why I feel a hell of a lot more sympathy for Reva than I ever have for Anakin (Reva also stops killing people WAY earlier than Anakin and shows more empathy towards people she's not personally related to than Anakin ever does). I'm over here HOPING that suit hurts him, I HOPE that he struggles to breathe every day, I hope his breath burns in his lungs every time air is pumped into him, I hope he feels that pain every moment of every day he has to stay alive. I could not give less of a shit about Anakin's pain. It's not even just the one genocide, either. Every single clone who dies after Order 66, their enslavement and loss of what little autonomy they had, can thank Anakin for what was done to them. And then he spends over TWENTY YEARS spreading pain and destruction and death across the galaxy. There are MILLIONS of lives gone exclusively because of Anakin. Anakin is DROWNING in the blood of the people he's killed. I hope it suffocates him. Even if Obi-Wan and Yoda DID want Luke to kill his father out of vengeance, I wouldn't blame them.

So yeah. Fuck Anakin. Who gives a shit if he's in pain. Luke is so lucky he didn't have to actually get to know his complete shit heel of a father and that his primary father figures ended up being Owen, Obi-Wan, and Yoda. Imagine how awful his life would've been if he'd actually had to live with Anakin as a father at any point. Luke dodged a bullet in so many ways.

This is why I don't engage with people like that anymore. There's so little point. I'm set in my ways and opinions now for the most part and they likely are, too. Arguing with them is just going to make everybody feel worse. I'd rather stay in my corner, even if I'm ranting in that corner.

[wetsocksinbed]

sometimes I think about the fact that when the Jedi were founded, there were very different rules (going by Pre-Disney novels, anyway). Attachment wasn’t forbidden. Love and marriage were allowed. You could show emotion and feel things without being scared of falling to the dark side. The Jedi were powerful beings who protected the galaxy while simultaneously also having families and loved ones. Who decided to change that? Who woke up one day and decided to implement those extremely cult-like behaviours? Obviously putting those rules into place would cause more problems for everyone. Was it Yoda? Was it the previous Grand Master?

As Anakin mentioned in Star Wars the Clone Wars, by Karen Traviss, it was incredibly hypocritical for Ki Adi Mundi to be allowed multiple wives and still be on the council. Anakin was aware of the low male birth rate of Ki Adi’s species, but he was also aware that this kind of hypocrisy was something that would cause disillusion. On that topic, in No Prisoners, also by Karen Traviss, Ahsoka tells a clone that the Jedi are allowed to love, they just can’t have emotional attachments. Rightfully so, the clone is confused by this, because how can you love someone without being attached to them?

As someone who grew up in a religious cult myself, it’s fascinating seeing similarities between what I grew up in, and the Jedi Order. Granted, the Jedi and the Republic were the lesser of two evils, but that was one of the reasons why the Jedi fell to easily. They were stuck in their ways of seeing everything black and white. They blindly saw the galaxy as being either “good” or “evil”, and refused to realise there could be people in between. The Jedi only helped planets if the planet agreed to side with them, instead of aiding a planet because of morality and justice. Whereas before the war, the Jedi valued all life and would help people without any kind of deal or reward.

Yoda was flawed. Mace Windu was flawed. The people put in place to guide the Jedi became complacent and forgot what it meant to be peace keepers. Yoda realised this too late, and that is why he trained Luke differently to the rest of the Jedi.

anyway that’s my little rant done. I still hate the sith more than the Jedi so I guess I’m still pro Jedi, but I like the High/Old Republic much better

[awesomestarfighter]

I Should Have Known Better Then To Debate My Brother On Star Wars But I Did It Anyway

That's a lengthy way to start a post, I know, but I'm in a very riled up mood right now.

I remember the first time I argued with him about this. Our family did a rewatch of the Star Wars series (prequels than originals) at my request (and I usually never get emotional, so they were very concerned when I started crying my eyes out during Order 66 and asking if we should stop) and afterwards we talked.

Since I'm an avid Pro Jedi fan, there was a lot of arguing about 'The Jedi could have done this/should have done this!'. A bit with my family, but mostly with my brother since we're an argumentative pair and he's the only one who's watched extra materials such as TCW to further why the Jedi failed/should have done more.

We had to agree to disagree, so it ended there. Now here I am years later, having already talked to him about why glorifying this particularly abusive M/F is not peak romance or good writing, what defines bad writing, and general amatonormativity, and since I'm back in a SW swing, I thought about bringing it up to him, hoping he'd gotten a little more flexible since the last time we talked about it.

Clearly, I was too optimistic to think that.

Cue the usual tangent of (which I've already seen from. . . So many fans):

-The Jedi should have known Palpatine was a Sith.

-They should have treated Anakin better.

-They should have made him a Master.

-They shouldn't have given him that advice about death.

-Obi-Wan wasn't ready for a Padawan.

-They should have investigated Sifo-Dyas's murder.

-They should have investigated more.

-That's just the way the story is written and how the characters would react in real life, so of course Filoni is a good viewpoint on the Jedi.

. . . And just the general, 'they should have done more' statement that's been uttered countless times before.

I tried to point out the flaws in this way of thinking, I really did.

-It's established right in TPM that the Sith have been extinct for a very long time, and they verbally acknowledge that they don't know whether the one killed was the Master of the Apprentice, so it wasn't like they just up and forgot about the enemy that could still be out there. And it's literally stated in the very next movie that their ability to use the Force has been diminished, so it's not like they could have seen the Sith in plain sight in the force. Minor note, I know Force Signatures are mentioned a lot in fanon, but I don't remember anything like that ever being mentioned in canon (I know there's Legends but that's a separate continuity). With all that to keep in mind, why would they think he was a Sith? We have a different view of things because we're the audience, but they don't! Even though they didn't magically know he was the Sith Lord, that doesn't mean they're blind to his dealings or the corruption within the Senate, unless I completely hallucinated the part where the Jedi Masters were on their way to arrest Palpatine even before they learned he was a Sith Lord.

-Questioning a kid to see how he would respond to your ways of life is not being nice enough apparently (people can debate about his trauma and the authorial intent all day, but the basis is that the Jedi are not supposed to be framed as the bad guys). Apparently adopting him and treating him as a part of their family just isn't enough. Clearly, they should have coddled him even more, maybe then he wouldn't have murdered them down to the last child! (This is sarcasm because they never treated him differently or anything, even the Chosen One thing is barely brought up, and all his darkest moments are ones the Jedi were never made aware of). I know people will just say to put him in therapy because I've seen them say that many times before, but the truth is that he's already in therapy with the Jedi, he just doesn't absorb any of it because he doesn't want to.

-Yeah, because an adult throwing a temper tantrum when he's been appointed to a leading authority by a shady government leader who should not have any authority over their organization isn't sketchy as fuck, that response alone proves he WAS not ready, because he still didn't understand what the Jedi were about, much less mastery of himself. My brother at least admitted that was a good point when I outlined it, so score for me, I guess.

-People give Yoda grief all the time for his advice, but they always seem to forget that, firstly, Anakin is asking this during a war they've been fighting for three years, one they've lost many friends and family to, and secondly. . . Anakin was really fucking vague when he brought this forward. He doesn't even specify who he's talking about isn't a fellow Jedi, clone, or otherwise (And I can't help but draw a parallel to how he didn't tell Obi-Wan about his visions of Shmi and people will blame Obi-Wan when Anakin's the one who can't bother to properly fucking communicate) and he doesn't listen because it's not what he wants to hear. He doesn't just want to save Padme; he wants to cheat death because he's possessive and greedy and doesn't want his loved ones to ever leave him. Yoda's advice was actually very useful, but since when has Anakin ever listened to good advice? Once again, my brother admitted that was a good point, so the second score went to me.

-I know fandom loves to portray Obi-Wan as this self-hating mess that's barely keeping it together (who also does a lot of medic dodging for some reason?). . . But that's not who he is in canon? The real Obi-Wan is controlled and capable, and he was a young adult when he was Knighted, not a kid, who went on to become the youngest member of the Council when he became a Master. It wasn't like he was left to teach Anakin alone, because he had the Order, and they're canonically big on communal teaching. Even just in the movies, we frequently see that Obi-Wan's the one who reaches out to Anakin and Anakin's the one who shuts him out. Obi-Wan was a great teacher, Anakin was just a shit student.

-The Jedi learned about Sifo-Dyas's unauthorized role in the creation of the clone army literally right before the war broke out, so it wasn't like they were in a position where they could look more into it. Even before that, they were under the impression that he died during a failed peace negotiation. My brother still said this even though there was a literal WHOLE ASS ARC IN TCW WHERE THEY INVESTIGATED HIS DEATH. He watched that arc to, and he still says they should have investigated his death even when they literally did. I have no words for such a contradictory way of thinking.

-I know it's easy to say stuff like that, but Star Wars isn't written for adults who want all the messy bits, but for kids for a good vs evil story, so of course investigation stuff is shoved to the side. Even in TCW where we do see them investigating, they're hampered by the Senate, by Palpatine, by the war, and by the narrative. Even ignoring that, Anakin literally said in ROTS that Palpatine was the Sith THAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR, so that means they were investigating even though we didn't see it onscreen.

-Filoni. . . God just thinking about him makes me angry. I could write a whole essay on how he's twisted the narrative for Star Wars so badly, and I hate essays, but plenty of people have already done it better, so I won't.

-But still, I think it's hilarious that I can point out certain things he's written terribly (TCW, TOTJ, TTB, and Ahsoka) to show that he doesn't like the Jedi, and my brother is still saying, 'well that's just how the story is written and how the characters will react so he doesn't really hate the Jedi with that sort of evidence and blah blah blah.'

-Of course, for TCW, my brother brought up that stupid arc where AsHoKa iS pErSeCuTeD - I just think it's funny how, with trying to make his special oc look good and the Jedi Council unlikable, Filoni accidentally made her unintentional unsympathetic and made the dOgMaTiC lEaDeRsHiP unintentionally sympathetic. And of course, who could forget the infamous s7 moment of her not being fair to Obi-Wan? I know people will say she's a teenager and she's confused and she's still feeling betrayed - but the thing is, that doesn't hold up because the narrative never follows up on it. It's not a personal flaw of hers, it's solely there to frame Ahsoka (and Bo-Katan/the Mandalorians by proxy) as right and Obi-Wan (and the Jedi Council/Order by proxy) as wrong. I'm sure there are more examples that can be noted, but those are definitely two of the biggest offenses in my book.

-Tales of the Jedi wasn't even about the Jedi, it was about two specific individuals who LEFT the Jedi. One who went on to become invincible/immortal/a sanctimonious prick/even more of a mouthpiece then she already was, the other went on to become the undisputed head of an enemy who went full throttle on genocide, slavery, and war crimes. Mace's treatment and Yaddle's treatment was more poorly veiled racism and even more poorly veiled Jedi hate. And of course, the super special training from Anakin that allowed Ahsoka to survive Order 66 unlike those useless unprepared Jedi who were too soft on their kids - but really just made him look like an incredibly abusive parent. Frankly, while I do hate Anakin and can see him pushing too hard as in character, even I can see that it could have been written a lot better than it was. Tales of the Jedi was a fucking joke because it should have been titled 'Tales of The Super Special Creators Pet OC and the Asshole Who Falls And Spearheads A War', and if we ever get Jedi content that is actually positive for them without the usual criticisms coming up (Kenobi's the only one so far that's come the closest) I'll be throwing a fucking party.

-Of course, I have to point out TBB's whitewashing, consistently carried over from TCW except even whiter, though I forgot to mention how that show just completely fucking forgot the Jedi existed. Though frankly, I wouldn't want them to be mentioned in the utter waste of time that TBB is.

-Ahsoka was made into even more of a mouthpiece in her show then she already was. I didn't even watch Rebels in its entirety because I don't care for it, but even with some of the more frustrating decisions with her in that span of time she never said the Order wouldn't have fallen if they had just brought in more non-Force Sensitives to train them into being Force Sensitive (another part of canon that Filoni has fucking taken a hammer to) singing Anakin's praises after she's 'saved' by him (though even in Rebels it got pretty egregious how she just fucking abandons the Rebellion and the Jedi because she won't leave him again) just being a general fandom anti on how the Order was at fault for everything and Anakin was actually predestined to become a Sith (instead of defying his destiny by attacking Mace and siding with Palpatine as per Word of God) so everything he did was justified. All written and directed by Filoni, just as the other pieces where he's had narrative control will label the Jedi as arrogant, as forgetful, as unworthy, as not ENOUGH. And as soon as he can, he shoves them aside for characters who are 'to cool to be a Jedi, a cooler Jedi than those useless old Order jerks who spent too much time playing politics and being too stringent because they were cautious rule followers and not plucky rebels and weren't loving enough to poor widdle Anakin and -'

Though frankly my brother had some pretty ludicrous takes in general. There was this whole tangent we had about how since Rex removed his chip and voided death, that makes him gray/puts him in a gray zone. I just bluescreened at that, because while I've never cared for morally gray characters/storytelling, a character stepping out of their slated place in the narrative so obviously isn't gray it's not even funny, it's infuriating. While I know a part of me being a writer is what helps me look at stories more critically, it still makes me feel so confused how people will just take in bad writing or come up with bullshit takes like this. Whatever happened to thinking critically for the good of storytelling?

. . . I don't usually write my own posts (even though I'm usually better at wording things than actually voicing an argument as it started with my brother) because I prefer to just reblog stuff on my blog, I wrote this primarily as a vent post because my argument with my brother really got me stirred up, but I've been in a salty sw mood lately so it was kind of cathartic to get this out.

Also, if any Jedi anti or fan comes at me with 'but actually the Jedi should have -' no. Please just don't. I always try to tag stuff properly so people who won't agree will know what my blog themes are about, I'm never in the mood for the run of a mill gotcha takes that infest this fandom and I will not hesitate to block you if you come onto my post for that.

[infinitepunches]

Every character on The Acolyte is competing to be the least likable character on The Acolyte.

But none can hold a candle to Vernestra Rwoh.

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

Do you think they should have went with the Chosen One plot for Anakin when they made the prequels? I've been rewatching the original trilogy and there is no mention of any prophecy. It seemed more like Anakin was a very powerful Jedi, but nothing grander then that.

Then, all of sudden the prequels are saying that he is the literal messiah of the Galaxy, destined to bring balance to the Force.

I mean, this isn't the blog for that, anon.

It's really not the blog for it not just in the sense that we talk about how things are here not how we want them to be but also because I think the Original Trilogy are also incredibly bad movies. They're not winning awards for being any better than the rest of the gang or any more righteous, they just have nostalgia, a few great actors carrying the weight (but only a few and not even some of the most important ones), a fantastic soundtrack (that admittedly is strikingly similar in parts to Holst's The Planets), and some great special effects and editing as of the time that George has tried to strip away with every passing year. It's no skin off my nose if the Prequels took some liberties to make things better (and... the thing about The Prequels is that they're not better, of course, but the plot is a lot more compelling than 'the Death Star blew up once' followed by a short break then 'the Death Star blew up twice')

But as for your question, it didn't strike me as too odd we didn't hear of it, because that's the whole thing: Jedi culture is wiped out to two known survivors (that we see anyway). And per those Jedi survivors, Anakin was very clearly not the chosen one as he did anything but bring balance to the Force.

So, you have Obi-Wan who doesn't want to talk about fucking any of it and lies through his teeth multiple times to Luke because he just doesn't want to talk about any of it. Then you have Yoda who wants to talk about it even less.

Neither is bringing up "did you know there was this prophecy where your father was supposed to bring balance to the Force? Boy, did he sure not do that".

Vader certainly isn't bringing it up either as, well, look at his miserable life and how much he hates himself and the Jedi. He's not bringing up their stupid prophecy that clearly wasn't true.

Remember very little is known about the Jedi for the common people, especially after Palpatine's taken over and spread propaganda and such. Han doesn't even think the Jedi are real and if he does it's "that weird space religion cult thing that died out???"

That is to say the prophecy is not common knowledge and especially not for people like Luke, Han, or even Leia for that matter for all she's a little more Jedi adjacent.

Even within the Jedi we see that people don't take the prophecy seriously. That was a Qui-Gon thing. He was super into that prophecy, yo, and the other Jedi (Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan even) all sort of stared at him looking very upset for insisting on this.

And in the war, while Anakin was an exceptionally talented Jedi, he wasn't really used as a propaganda piece/seen as the only Jedi who would save them all.

The prophecy was just the reason Qui-Gon insists on training him despite his age and is one of those things that seems to have actually been correct for all that no one will ever admit it.

(@therealvinelle can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm going to lay down something that will make people very upset: Anakin being "The Hero with No Fear", seen as one of two great Jedi in the war who are doing so much for the cause more than anyone else, and the extra focus on this prophecy was an invention of Disney's 2008 The Clone Wars, not the films.)

[padawansuggest]

I blame Yoda more for Anakin being left alone with the chancellor than Obi-Wan and that’s about as political as I get thanks.

[inquisitor-apologist]

Force, I am SO frustrated with the Filonification of popular Star Wars. People keep on trying to make arguments about Star Wars, yet they refuse to actually watch Star Wars and make sensible criticisms about it because they’re literally just parroting whatever weird non-canonical shit Felony spit out in an article last week.

I was looking at this article:

And I was legitimately trying to look at the criticisms and see if I can agree with any of them, but they don’t make any sense and I can just feel Filoni oozing off them.

So imma rant, got it?

Mistake Number 1 that led to the fall of the order: They were too much into politics.

More specifically, the article claims that “they very much had a hand in the flipping the Senate” with reference to the Vote of No Confidence for Valorum in tpm, but it’s been a minute and a half since I saw the prequels, so I read the Wookie summary, and I might’ve missed something but I don’t think there’s any mention of them, like, voting or doing anything significant in the Senate in ep1? I feel like it would’ve been mentioned if it was even vaguely implied that the Jedi mind tricked the senate or lobbied for the vote to go one way or another, but it isn’t mentioned anywhere and it don’t square with what I remember, so I’m guessing they just made this up and convinced themselves it was canon? Tell me if you can figure out what they’re talking about or if there is a canon basis I missed.

Other than that, I do not remember a single scene where we saw the Jedi do anything more political than take orders from politicians or exist in the senate building in the prequels.

Mistake Number 2 that led to the fall of the order: Suppressing Baby Murderer’s emotions.

…A Take, certainly. So this one’s talking about Anakin’s grief over his mother’s death, which I agree would be a fucked-up thing to suppress. That’d suck. If it actually happened because… the Jedi do not know that Anakin’s mom is dead. They do not know that Anakin and Padmé went to Tatooine, since they were ordered to stay on Naboo. They are utterly unaware of everything that happens on Tatooine aside from Yoda feeling the Tusken Massacre in the Force. Yeah, Anakin told Obi-Wan that he’d had dreams about his mom dying, and he didn’t do anything about it, but that wasn’t Obi Wan suppressing Anakin’s emotions—that was just him saying that it sucked that he had a bad dream, since I don’t think Anakin said it could’ve been a vision or anything, so this one doesn’t land at all. Where did they get this idea???

Mistake Number 3 that led to the fall of the order: ‘Allowing’ Maul to take over Mandalore (somehow?)

I can feel my brain cells dying. Maul joined up with a terrorist group and some crime gangs to forcefully take over a neutral system. None of that was ‘allowed’ by the Jedi. They also say that the Jedi ‘sent’ Obi Wan to get rid of Maul when I remember Yoda telling Obi Wan some shit like “Send anyone to Mandalore the Jedi cannot” and then Obi Wan went to Mandalore anyway and it didn’t do shit. Anyway I feel like the author of this article might own a ridiculously annoying cowboy hat. Just a hunch.

Mistake Number 4 that led to the fall of the order: Baselessly Exiling Ahsoka (Baselessly?? There very much was base)

So. Wrong Jedi Arc my beloathed. Here we are again. The article claims that the Jedi “exiled Ahsoka Tano on mere suspicion alone and didn't even confirm whether she was involved in the bombing of the Jedi Temple or not”. Which. Hmm. So, there was a big investigation into the bombing that pretty definitely said that Ahsoka was almost certainly the bomber. It wasn’t ‘mere suspicion’, it was all the fucking evidence very clearly pointing to her. She ran away, she worked with a damn separatist assassin, she was found in a warehouse filled with the bombs. The audience know she was framed, but the characters don’t because the whole point of framing someone is to convince the other people they did it. If the Jedi had exiled her for this, they would’ve been being very reasonable and justified. Will also point out that the Jedi were forced by the Senate to exile her and did not want to. They apologized and let her back in as soon as they possibly could.

Also there’s this weird (actually!) baseless claim that Ahsoka was one of the most powerful Jedi in the Clone Wars. Which has no proof because it’s untrue—she’s a padawan with max 2 years of training. There’s no way she’s more powerful than a fully trained knight, of which there were still quite a few. But of course she is, because she’s Felony’s beloved OC who can do no wrong.

Mistake Number 5 that led to the fall of the order: Not giving Baby Murderer power

I am convinced that no one involved in writing or editing this article has actually watched RotS, and has only ever listened to Felony talk about RotS. They claim that ‘they invited Anakin over to the Council as a pseudo-member and his only task was to spy on the Chancellor. Not only was this political meddling once again, but it was also an insult to Anakin’ oh no, they insulted Anakin, clearly this means he’s justified in murdering them! Also, the Jedi Council apparently wanted to appoint Anakin, they weren’t literally forced into it by Palpatine. You know, that scene where Palpatine is like “yeah, I’ve forced the council to put you on the council even though they don’t want you there. You’re my spy on the council now” that didn’t happen actually. The Jedi were completely evil in not allowing the unstable baby murderer a full seat on their governing body when they were forced to put him there through nepotism. Them asking the only guy who’s close enough with the chancellor to investigate him because he’s overstayed his term and is overreaching with his powers is also completely evil and awful and unjustified. Uh huh.

Mistake Number 6 that led to the fall of the order: Mace Windu Wants To Kill Palpatine Right Away (direct quote from the article)

Yeah, you read that right. I can’t make this shit up, but filoni sure as fuck can. So, Mace Windu learns that the shady Chancellor that’s been overreaching with his authority and has overstated his term is also an evil Sith that has manipulated both sides of the war to gain power, causing the deaths of millions, including a shit ton of Mace’s people and friends, because said chancellor drafted them to fight in the war that he created. This would make Mace pretty damn justified in killing Palpy imo, but Mace specifically goes to arrest him for his crimes. Palpatine then kills three other Jedi Masters in cold blood and attempts to kill Mace, and when Mace beats him he still tries to arrest him—y’know that whole “You are under arrest, my lord” bit?—until the guy tries to fucking electrocute him with his fucking hands and it becomes clear that there is no way to take him in peacefully. Only after palpatine murders 3 people in front of him, attempts to murder Mace in combat, and makes it clear that he cannot be taken in alive does Mace attempt to kill him. No matter how you slice it, that’s not him wanting to kill the bitch right away.

Also the article tries to say that Anakin wanted to bring Palpatine in because he recognized that he should stand trial, which is technically what he says, but he also screams “I need him!” in that same scene so I think we know why he really doesn’t want Palpy to die.

Mistake Number 7 that led to the fall of the order: They didn’t train Luke and Leia

Now this might seem baffling because the article is supposedly talking about things that caused the fall of the order and Luke and Leia weren’t even born until after the fall of the order, but I can assure you that the article does not explain this in any way.

Still, let’s pretend this makes sense with the subject of the article and press on. The article asks what was stopping Obi Wan from training Luke as a Jedi on Tatooine. I feel like the answer might have something to do with the fact that the twins were so powerful that the Jedi were afraid that the emperor could sense them if they were next to each other. Formal training would make them stronger and more likely to be sensed, so they didn’t do it until they had to. This probably would be the most reasonable thing in here if the article wasn’t about what caused the fall of the order.

Mistake Number 8 that led to the fall of the order: Not telling Luke about Vader

Yet another Thing That Lead to the Fall of the Jedi Order that somehow happened after the fall of the order, but if I focus on that I might start screaming, so we move on.

This article leads you to believe that all the problems in ESB could’ve been solved if only Obi Wan had told Luke about Vader. Hmm. Yoda says in RoJ that Luke wasn’t ready for the information when he was told at the end of ESB, which seems very true based on the fact that Luke was unable to accept the information when told, was described by George Lucas as suicidal afterwards, and is suddenly unable to consider killing Mr. Evil Baby Murderer Space Fascist afterwards because of their family connection, and you want Obi-Wan to tell him earlier?

You know that OT Luke would, upon hearing that information before Cloud City, have immediately jumped in his X-Wing and raced to confront Vader. If he found Vader in that state, Luke would’ve been even more unbalanced and unfocused, which would’ve lead to him losing the duel worse and being either killed or captured by Vader, since Leia wouldn’t have been close enough to save him.

Mistake Number 9 that led to the fall of the order: Not believing people who had been dead for 1,000 years were back without proof

I want you to imagine a hypothetical with me: a guy that is somehow vaguely influential in politics walks up to the UN and tells them that Leif Eriksson and the Vikings are back and coming to kill everybody. This man has no proof beyond what he and a couple of people with him say , and there has been no indication of this at all before he shows up. I know in that scenario I’d want the UN to throw him out until he had proof.

That’s the modern day equivalent of Qui Gon telling the Jedi the Sith are back. He’s making a huge claim with no evidence. You can’t expect the Jedi to immediately believe him no questions asked. The instant there’s actual proof of this, we see the two most influential and powerful Jedi, Mace and Yoda, talking about how they need to look out for other Sith. They are taking the threat seriously, they just aren’t omniscient like the audience.

Mistake Number 10 that led to the fall of the order: When they were enemies of the state who would be killed if they didn’t hide, they hid

Truly, a horrible mistake. Now they’re mad at Obi Wan and Yoda for going into hiding, unlike other survivors of Order 66. Other survivors such as Kanan, Ahsoka, Cal, and Quinlan, perhaps. All of these characters went into hiding. Cal and Kanan were forced out of hiding, and Ahsoka helped with the early rebellion while remaining in hiding, but pretty much every order 66 survivor tried to go into hiding.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go cry.

[marvelstars]

Padmé, Luke and Anakin: compassion as unlimited love

Disclaimer: this is an answer that got too long for @husborth great points about the fandom mistreatment towards Padmé and her role in Star wars and wanted to add my two cents. You can read Husborth´s great take here:

You made many good points about Padmé character mistreatment by the fandom, I just personally disagree that this perjuice agaisnt women is a Christian/Catholic cultural staple, the belief that women are weak is part of many cultures unfortunately but in the old and new testament from the Bible is common to see figures of women taking leadership roles that lead towards the salvation of their people not by being violent or men like but by being wiser, patient, understanding and brave stories like Ruth or Esther show this. Lucas got inspired by some of these stories to develop Padmé and Leia and it´s also why he wanted to add a daughter for Anakin and the reason why Luke originally was going to be a woman.

But getting back to Padmé, this is why I personally get mad at Obi-Wan for using Padmé´s worry for Anakin to get in her ship without her knowledge so she would lead him to Vader and the fact he didn´t do anything to try to convince Anakin that Padmé didn´t know he was there and he didn´t particulary care to use her or thought about her well being given he knew Anakin was completely out of control.

I don´t think the fandom talks enough about this fact. Obi-Wan USED Padmé to get to Mustafar so he would be able to kill Anakin by an order from Yoda. This is pretty clear in ROTS and it´s also why while they had a pretty cute friendship and familiar relationship, I don´t see Obi-Wan as a character who understood what happened with Anakin and also don´t see post destruction of the Jedi temple, for very understanding reasons why he would have compassion for Anakin, this is also why the Obi-Wan series kind of get away from canon imo, Obi-Wan wasn´t raised that way and his plan of using Luke to kill Vader and the Emperor in the original trilogy by raising up Luke´s idea of his father while Vader was his killer when he knew they were the same person supports this imo.

But I disgress the fact is that out of most characters in Star Wars, Padmé is the one character who recognized a psycotic break when she saw one. It isn´t Padmé´s fault the only way Obi-Wan saw to stop Anakin was to cut him into pieces and let him dying burning alive.

I agree with you in that the narrative ultimately gives Padmé the reason and that compassion would have gone a longer way and ultimately saved the galaxy, that Luke´s story reflects this, that punishment only served to add fire to the darkside and even killing Anakin would have zero effect on Palpatine´s Empire and given Anakin was the one who ultimately killed the Emperor when Yoda was defeated, then Anakin´s death would only mean a longer time for the Empire if not the 10,OOO years Palpatine planned for the Sith Empire but Obi-Wan didn´t know the details of Anakin´s fall, he didn´t know about his nightmares or how much Palpatine grooming got into Anakin´s mind and how to treat a person in the middle of losing his mind and given his formation, killing was what he was teached to do with a Sith.

So Obi-Wan saw a Sith who just destroyed his family, Padmé saw Anakin, the sweet slave kid who risked his life to help a Queen and her planet, the joking husband who loved her with his life, who was happy to leave everything behind, his work, his role as Jedi Knight to help her raise their kid on Naboo, she saw Anakin completely out of his senses, paranoid, hurting and alone and decided what was needed was her giving him some breathing room so he would get back to his own senses, Padmé here knows about the darkside but isn´t sure how this affects a person this was why she backed away from Anakin when he started talking about taking over the Empire and become Emperors because this wasn´t her husband talking anymore and still she tried to convince him to get away from it all in an intent to help him get back to himself.

At this point Padmé knows he´s not been sleeping or eating, that he had nightmares of her dying which awoke what happened with his mother, that Palpatine has become a tyrant who has keep a close realtionship with Anakin since he was a little kid and that Palpatine used her and the crisis on Naboo to become Chancellor, it isn´t hard for Padmé to put two and two together to understand Anakin´s mental unstability has a lot to do with Palpatine and that this happening just after Palpatine became Emperor isn´t a coincidence.

I personally liked a part of the alternative story in which Padmé tried to kill Anakin using a dagger because this is also in character for Padmé, at least her amidala persona would have thought about this in a pragmatic way but I also believe she ultimately would have taken the path of compassion,in a way also reflecting back towards Luke own decision.

This is also why Vader keep beating himself over Padmé and their child death for years, because he knew he could have used this oportunity to be with Padmé and raise their kid but this guilt also pushed him deeper into the darkside for many years while also keeping him connected to the light side which Palpatine noticed, instead of feeling satisfaction for power Vader just fell into a state of constant mourning for Padmé, their kid, the younglings and everything he did that day while trying to make it count for something working on the Empire because he knew there was no fixing what he did and that he was completely consumed by the dakrside.

Now this is also why I give Luke so many points for getting to her mothers conclusion with not much or at all information Padmé and Obi-Wan had about Anakin. He just goes out of his way to save Vader because he doesn´t want to become a patricide but also because he felt this yearning from Vader for a Son which reflected his own yearning for a father. Luke is showing compassion that reflects his mothers but his reasons for going ahead with it had a lot to do with how he was raised, family is important on Tatooine, he grew up with her grandmothers family, he knew how the darkside worked because he also felt that strong temptation himself and also almost fell in the throne room, which also served him to understand how easy it´s to fall under such pressure and that his father had a similar pressure and he knew Vader had tried to protect him in his own twisted way which meant Luke was Vader´s weakness and he´s Vader´s weakness because he loves him.

I agree with Husborth Padmé and Luke correlation in their compassion towards Vader should be talked more as well in the fandom imo all these nuances are what make of star wars such a good story and it´s a shame we often forget in the fandom to talk about it in a nuanced way.

[caripr94]

Unpopular opinion: I know that a lot of Star Wars fans are peeved about the tragedy of the sequels negating much of the happy ending of the original trilogy, but honestly, that's actually one of my favorite parts of the sequels. Why? Because it means that well-intentioned hypocritical nutheads like Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Bail Organa don't get to get away with underhanded, morally unethical stunts like separating the twins from each other, kidnapping them from their biological families, lying to them about their heritage, grooming them against their own father, and using them to try to restore their own power and get everything back to the old status quo that got them into this mess in the first place. We all get to see the consequences of such tactics and nobody (who's paying attention) gets to say that "this and that" was okay because everything turned out fine in the end.

Because even though Luke managed to break the cycle of darkness and abuse on his end by the end of the original trilogy, we never really saw that happening with Leia on her end, nor did we see many of those family issues from that separation and manipulation or many of the problems with the Old Jedi Order or any of the problems with the Old Republic get even addressed. Many of the underlying issues of the prequels that came from people not learning from their mistakes just got swept under the rug. At least with the tragic events that happened in the sequel era (at least in TFA, before Lucasfilm messed everything up in the subsequent sequels, which I don't count as canon), we get to see many of the effects of such corrupt and dysfunctional methods that these "heroic" elders used, and in some way, there's some poetic justice in that, even at such a high price. And I know that many of you are saying that "Star Wars is supposed to be a fairy tale or myth; it's not supposed to be realistic", but let me remind you that not every fairy tale has gotten a happily ever after (at least in its early versions) and it was actually quite rare for mythological heroes to get a happily ever after either.

Disclaimer: This is mostly about TFA, which was much more consistent with the original lore. I acknowledge that the later two sequels didn't have as much consistency or respect for the original lore (or even with TFA), so I don't count them as canon.

[gch1995]

Why do you care about Vader's feelings so much? He doesn't deserve dignity. I hope Lucasfilm makes a story where he's captured by the Rebellion and brutally tortured until he's crying for Shmi. They'll use force suppressing devices and make him feel like the worthless slave he is

I care because Star Wars is primarily Anakin’s story, whether you like it or not. I care because Luke’s entire character arc in the OT films is pointless if Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda were always meant to be the perfect mentors, who did nothing wrong. I care, not just about Anakin’s feelings, but the feelings of every other Jedi recruit who had serious issues with the way the old Jedi Order and Republic operated.

I care, because if the Jedi are supposed to be the good guys, in spite of their flaws, then we should ultimately be rooting for them to rise again with Luke Skywalker. Because Anakin’s arc and feelings in the prequels are no longer treated as valid in the Disney era of Star Wars, that means Obi-Wan and Yoda are treated as being completely right all along, and the new Jedi Order cannot grow with Luke Skywalker in the current canon. The same bad choices and mistakes keep being made in the current canon because he follows his blatantly misguided predecessors, which was not implied at the end of the OT movies at all. While I would never agree that mass murder/genocide is the answer to deal with stopping them, because the current canon narrative ignores all the serious issues Anakin and his predecessors had, at least in part, because of the blatant corruption within the Order and Republic they grew up amongst, I’m also not too thrilled that Luke rebuilt the Order because he’s repeating all of their misguided choices and practices in current canon as a result.