#Anti ouat

[ryik-the-writer]

No one:

Me: You know who would have been better as Belle's infidelity partner than Will Scarlet? Jefferson.

Before I begin, THIS IS NOT A BELLE HATE POST! Yes, I am going to address IT, but I am not putting her down for this...and I'll tell you why.

So after that god-freaking-awful twist in 4x11 when Belle sends Rumple over the town line, both he and Belle are left shattered at their dubious betrayals, the latter of which so much so she sought additional comfort (again, not hate, just hear me out).

That love interest ... for whatever reason ... was Will Scarlet, a cameo from Once Upon a Time's short-lived spin-off OUAT in Wonderland, which had ended a few months prior.

I, along with a good chunk of the fanbase, thought it was a unique choice, and most likely a way to acknowledge the spin-off in canon.

Don't get me wrong, I like Will as a character in OUATIW, but he was just off to me in OUAT. Like he was just shoved in there without a real purpose. Even his scenes with Robin Hood felt forced to me.

And honestly, it seemed strange to me that Belle, the logical scholar and fruitful romantic, would break her wedding vows of all things even after what Rumple did.

BUT THEN AGAIN, I also don't think it's established how intensive wedding vows are in this universe. I mean, Snow technically cheated on David with Dr. Whale, and while it's addressed comedically, it's not really addressed as an issue in their marriage but they comfortably move on from none the less.

Of course, it's obviously just the show's weakest attempt at *drama* and a way to baffle the Rumbellers into stunned silence so they can focus on *other things* (I am NOT going THERE today.)

And I think I remember an article or something about Will's actor's Michael Socha, feeling underused and wanting out especially since he had a kid at home. While he has a few zingers between him and other characters like Rumple and Hook, he looks so awkward when he's on-screen with Belle, like even he doesn't know why he's there!

But for the sake of *drama* Belle needs some side yum. Cool. Girl's gotta work out her frustrations some way right? But WILL SCARLET?!

This Will Scarlet?

"I love you Anastasia Tremaine" Will Scarlet?

Who ripped his heart out because her betrayal was just too much?

For freaking sake, they had a TLK!!!

I will only, and I mean ONLY accept the following two theories as a reason why...this happened...

1. This takes place during Will and Anastasia's break.

It's established in the OUATIW that the events in the spinoff are happening sometime in either late-season 1 or early season 2's canon. I think. But maybe, just maybe, it was actually around season 4's timeline? The timeline is screwed to hell anyway so...

Ana's presence is established in OUAT after Will, who broke into the library and vandalized a copy of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, is arrested and held indefinitely. And while Will looks distraught at the mention of his former love, but he's not devastated enough

The scene subsequently serves as a pointless but sweet way to introduce Belle and Will. I myself wrote a fic few years back as a way to fill in how that played out afterwards. But the actual writers just kind of tossed it in there.

And dropped it.

Yeah, WIll just kind of disappeared after season 4. Thanks for stopping by, I guess.

And btw, you cannot convince me that a guy who reacts like this after watching the love of his life get killed in front of him:

Like I kid you not, Will's screams and cries were stuck in my head after that episode. I gasped and covered my mouth. I remember feeling the same way when Graham died in OUAT because Emma's grief was just as raw as this. This is not the kind of grief you just up and move on with so casually. This sticks with you.

BACK TO JEFFERSON

Okay, I swear, I have a point.

Again, if Belle just *needed* a love interest during her break from Rumple, fine, but why not use the opportunity to do some freaking fan service after that Frozen mess?

Bring. Back. The. Hatter.

Why Jefferson?

He has an established relationship with Belle.

Even if the ugly truth is Jefferson had to know Belle was being held captive in the hospital asylum, Belle would still, begrudgingly, be grateful he freed her and reunited her with Rumplestiltskin. Maybe he tried apologizing with coffee, and...things happen.

Plus he has an established relationship with Rumplestiltskin PRIOR to Belle.

No. You cannot tell me these two:

...were just "business associates". No these two were hitting shroons in Wonderland every Tuesday at happy hour, do I make myself clear? It's obvious they weren't friends but they worked well together.

That scene in the shop would have been BANGER if Jefferson had been in Will's place. I mean the possibilities are endless with their establishment. They could have opened up an opportunity to explore more of Rumple's deals with Jefferson to find a way to the Land Without Magic, or even their shared connection with Regina, established, beloved connections in the series the audience would be comfortable with.

And honestly, I think Belle and Jefferson could have very nice chemistry too.

Their both worldly, and I can see these two sitting at a booth in Granny's forever as Jefferson told her her stories about his travels, maybe even a few tales about his deal and possible friendship with Rumplestiltskin. And maybe he helps her heal a bit.

That scene in 4x12 where Belle and Hook talk about Rumple really rubbed me the wrong way. What Rumple did to Belle and, yes, even Hook, was awful, but Hook never had to answer for his part in Rumple's decline. What did he think would happen if he threatened to blackmail him with Belle of all people?

Not to mention, Belle and Grace would have gotten along so well.

At this point in the series, Grace is a young teenager, and could possibly use a female presence. She like Henry, would probably understand that her father needs more companionship and would support their relationship. And it would be great foreshadowing to Belle's own relationship with her child later on. And Belle LOVES kids and could have formed a very promising bond with Grace. Regardless on how her relationship with Jefferson could have ended, Belle would have this girl over for sleepovers every week.

[youarejustintime]

Emma’s wardrobe changing to be more white and floral after Hook moves in and everyone constantly regarding her masculine style as a “wall” is one of the most blatantly misogynistic tropes I’ve ever witnessed and it is WILD to me that people still can’t see that.

Emma: *dresses masculine for most of her life, only dresses hyper feminine when actively playing a character*

Emma as soon as she gets with H00k: *begins to dress more feminine, regularly wearing flowy blouses and trading in her classic red leather jacket with a red blazer*

Y’all: Ah yes, the pinnacle of character development, good for her

[swanfireprincessmydear]

If you want to have a good laugh, then go and listen to ‘Orphaned at Thirty-Three’ by Starkid from the perspective that H00k is singing it.

I promise, it will lighten your mood so much.

[keeloves]

OUAT fans telling me that I am purposely trying to be controversial because I said Zelena was a rapist and had a baby under dubious means instead of finding it controversial that she killed Robin Hood’s wife took her place and tricked him into sex! Me calling it out is controversial but Zelena’s actions aren’t?

[sassyandclassy94]

I'm watching Once Upon a Time for the first time and I've reached season 2 so far! I really enjoyed season 1, but I can already feel my interest in the show decreasing after the curse was broken. Plus, I'm not sure I want to watch all seven seasons as that feels like too much. Is there any particular point that would be a good place to stop? What are the best seasons?

Hi!! I recommend stopping after they come back from Neverland. I myself have a hard time stomaching it after a particular character’s death. After Neverland they became 100% fan service, character regression, and started glorifying toxic relationships. Adam and Eddie dropped the ball when they scrapped their original plan for what loud and horny teenagers demanded. It lost its magic after season 3a

[midgardianqueenreturns]

This is a very bizarre comparison since they’re from different genres (and mediums), but I have to say, My Hero Academia did “Most of the villains have a tragic backstory” a lot better than Once Upon a Time did.

[gameguy20100]

Wow, "Once upon a time" sounds like predessor of every "class salt" fic ever

It does a bit doesn't it?

Granted, I'm assuming a 14 year old boy doesn't get all his assets stolen by the girl who sexually assaulted him and the narrative says his his fault. Or a teenage girl gets praise for burning down a school.

Yes those are both real.

[tinderbox210]

OH MY GOD, I thought I was one of the few salty Neal being written out of the show 😭😭 It was legit my final straw and I dropped the show like 2 episodes later and I hate dropping shows like that. I don't hate CS but I really liked Emma and Neal 😭

Nope, you're not the only one. I loved Neal, loved his integral role to curse plot, and him and Emma were made for each other!

I stopped watching after he was gone shortly after too, which really bummed me because I was really looking forward for all the Frozen and Brave stuff.

I wasn’t just salty about the shipping stuff, but also because it meant the end of so many integral parts of the story and important relationships. I hated that Rumple lost his son and Henry lost his father after having just found him.

I think I'm still so unforgiving at the ship because in order to make it happen (and from what I've seen what happened after), the show also ruined the characters of Emma and Hook imo, so I couldn’t even keep on watching feeling indifferent towards them.

Dropping shows is not easy most of the time, especially when you loved them so much, but in the end it's better than hate watching.

[ultraericthered]

This sounds kind of like Regina Mills' arc if it was actually done well.

i feel like so many people misunderstand redemption arcs. they’re not about forgiving past actions. they’re not about softening previous behavior. redemption arcs are about realizing past behavior was heinous and resolving to be better, do better. that’s why so many redemption arcs fall apart upon close scrutiny.

[mneiai]

For some reason OUAT keeps coming up on my dash and it's been a long time since I was in that fandom, but I am still salty that Regina/Emma was not, in fact, the canonical end game. Like imagine setting up the perfect romantic enemies-to-lovers relationship and then just...ignoring it because they're both women.

Watching that show was like if in Hannibal they had the exact same dynamic between Will and Hannibal, but kept "no homo"ing all over the place because people in control of the show were that homophobic.

[sassyandclassy94]

The anti-SwanFire Oncers are the dumbest people in the fandom.

[soraya-snape]

I don't know how many times I have heard a Marauders Stan tell me and other Snape Fans that we only like him because of Alan Rickman. Which is funny because they are the exact same people who only like the Marauders and also death eaters like Regulus because of their hot fancasts. And I don't even have a problem with it because yes Alan Rickman did play a part in me liking Snape and I believe you can like pretty much every fictional character because they are fictional. The difference is that I don't excuse Sev's behaviour because I think he looks good unlike these Marauders Stans.

[ultraericthered]

Actually, here's the rub: they don't change their behavior. They change their behavior towards specific people and gear their goals towards good rather than bad and in alignment with the good guys. But otherwise, they carry all of the exact same root problems that led to their bad acts to start with only now they are enabled by the good guys rather than pushed back against, and rewarded by the narrative rather than condemned. So their victims made all the concessions and apologies to them first for pretty much no substantial result.

Basically, the problem with both Regina Mills from OUAT and Bakugo from MHA is this: they "technically change their behavior", but only because everyone ELSE is made to change FIRST. Regina does stop murdering people, but only because her biggest victims apologize to her and give her everything she wants, so she "technically no longer has a reason to kill people". Bakugo stops beating up Izuku, but only because everyone else praises him and tells him he isn't wrong, so he's no longer "insecure."

Yeah, you’re right. They only changed because they got what they want from other characters despite the fact they hurt others in the past. But remember; they were sad at one point, so it all evens out.

[gameguy20100]

They want Once Upon a Time. OUAT is the living embodiment of "fandom morality". OUAT is what fandoms consider to be "good writing". This is because once the fandom decided they liked Regina Mills, the show kept rewriting and retconning morality, "correcting" and "fixing" the world to make Regina right and everyone else wrong. Everyone must be nice to Regina but she's allowed to be mean to everyone else. To fandoms, "good writing" means "rewriting morality so we Get the Specific Outcome We Want".

Yeah, that sounds about right.

I have never seen Once Upon a Time. But it's on my list of shows that the more I hear about it, the less I want to watch it,

[thedisdainfullysilentvisitor]

Just thought I'd ask; how badly do people want a ouat fanfic where Graham's assault is addressed and Regina isn't catered to?

[oautincorrectquotes]

Regina: I met someone..

Cora: Yes, the wanted thief, I'm so proud.