#And just so we're clear; I'm NO Republican or conservative.

[starmada4546]

Well, in the hours since posting this and it's subsequent migration to reddit, I've gotten some pretty decent responses, (And a lot of people who clearly just didn't read anything I wrote, but some good!), so I'm going to go over some of my points again for the people dozing in the back of the class.

Yes, as of writing this, over 72 million Americans voted for Trump. All of them are ignorant, shortsighted, and selfish at best, and bigoted, traitorous, and just straight up evil at worst. Without those votes, no matter how badly the democratic party screwed the pooch, Trump would not have won. I do not say this to excuse those people. All of those people should be held accountable for their behavior. However, as cynical of an assumption as it may be, one can no longer view American politics through the lens of all the voters trying to elect the candidate that's the best for everyone. Such a lens is an outdated relic of an era in which the evils of politics were done behind smiling masks, and the oppression was done behind closed doors instead of at the top of every media headline in the nation. If there is one thing that this election has made crystal clear, it is that Americans have become more concerned with their own wallets and kitchen tables than with the lives of their neighbors. The problem is that even through that framing, the Democratic party should easily sweep any logical voter, and yet they didn't. Progressivism and class consciousness is the answer to economic anxiety, and yet it was completely ignored by the democrats in this election, and the price for that is what we're seeing now, because the Democrats allowed themselves to be made into the establishment, and allowed the republicans to sell themselves as anti-establishment, regardless of the fact that both are the establishment, and neither wishes to be against the establishment, merely to mold it to their liking.

The fact of the matter is, no matter how evil Trump is, he will always have support. That is his brand. He has famously self-proclaimed that he could commit murder in broad daylight and not lose a single vote, and if there is one thing Trump has ever been correct about, it's that. The Democrats must, must count on the Alt-Right turning up to vote in force for the conservative candidate, and from the numbers they've been doing, the Democrats can't rely on the moderate vote to carry them through that. Hell, it doesn't seem like the Democrats can rely on the moderate vote at all. The DNC has no further right to drift, and yet they keep trying anyway, dropping their supporters from the left to be subsumed by the right, because deep down, they are not aligned with the left. This does not necessarily apply to every registered Democrat everywhere, but the party as a whole has historically only taken up progressive causes when they either see an opportunity to claim moral victory over conservatives. They do not truly care for progressivism, or at least they haven't for many years. They put up a black woman for president and say, "See? Our candidate is two minorities in one! Isn't this what you care about?" No! I'd love to have a black woman in the white house as much as anyone else, but the democrats have fallen so out of touch that I must believe that they genuinely think that "diverse" candidates is enough to guarantee a progressive vote. They saw Obama win two consecutive terms and chalked it up to his skin color, which is absolutely it's own form of racism, by the way. They tried to test this hypothesis in 2016 in Hilary Clinton, another historically unlikable candidate, with no real progressive policy and all her messaging being about her gender and not particularly her competence of fitness for office, while simultaneously dicking over the largest progressive movement in recent history, and they got burned. And the lesson they took from this? It wasn't making sure their candidate reflects the voters wishes, it wasn't learning to message on policy and confidence as I discussed earlier, and it certainly wasn't to not alienate progressive voters. It was "We didn't reach the moderate conservative enough. Clearly, we just didn't reach the moderate wing of the republican party like we should have. Obviously, we must have won the progressive vote, so the problem lies in the center."

It's not merely the entitlement they feel to the progressive vote, it's the fact that they can't conceive of the fact that they didn't get it. Even the moderate wing of the conservative party was never going to vote for a woman, much less a black woman. Meanwhile, there were millions of votes the democrats were counting on, and yet they didn't receive, because they didn't bother actually trying to get them! They felt entitled to the progressive vote. They felt entitled to the black vote. They felt entitled to the queer vote, the Hispanic vote, the female vote, the Arab vote, the sheer entitlement in this party is sickening. The fact of the matter is that they simply can't conceive of a world in which the white moderate does not decide who sits in the Oval Office, and fundamentally, they are against any attempt to change that, because the world in which the white moderate is the deciding vote is the world in which they keep their power. The world wherein the white moderate is the deciding vote is the world wherein they must confront none of their inner biases, because if they are not receiving the votes they feel entitled to, then they must be wrong on a fundamental level. That world is comfortable and familiar to them, it plays by the rules they expect and like, it requires no reexamination, reflection, or introspection. Any acknowledgement that progressives, or POC, or the LGBT+ community are voting blocks that could win them elections if focused on is an acknowledgement that the white moderate is only the deciding vote in the tenuous world order they have constructed, and any attempt to convince Democrats that they need to enfranchise these groups, break up gerrymandered districts, or just Actually Put Some Fucking Effort Into Anyone Else is doomed to failure because of it.

Getting back to the point, yes, the fact that 72 million Americans voted for Donald J. Trump is a disgrace, and every single one of them should be held accountable for the blood that is about to be spilled. But at the end of the day, this is a trolley problem. The Democrats had the ability to avert the trolley, and they fucked that up spectacularly. The man who tied the people to the tracks and set the trolley to run over them is a monster, but his actions are counted upon either way, and so too are Trump's. This debate isn't about the ethics of Alt-Right conservatism. If you've made it this far into this essay, I can reasonably assume you already agree with me that it holds no moral merit worth consideration. It is about the fact that the Democratic party allowed this to happen, and must be held accountable for their actions. Going along with "Vote Blue No Matter Who!" is not a strategy that works. Progressives cannot call upon the party loyalty that conservatives have, in part because progressivism requires the brainpower to analyze the issues and discover the problems, while conservatives typically wait for a strongman to point at something for them to get angry at, but mostly in truth because the Democrats have not delivered like the Republicans have.

Sure, the Republicans don't deliver on a good economy, or fixing the issues they claim to care about, but what they do deliver on is what they stake their campaigns on, and it's bigotry. Say what you will, but when a conservative votes for Trump, they can be confident that Trump will continue to be racist, sexist, and anti-LGBT while in office, and he will make policy accordingly. He will lock migrant children in cages and appoint justices to overturn Roe v. Wade and tear gas progressive protesters. Those are things he said he was going to do whether directly or euphemistically, and he delivered.

Democrats say they will pack the court, and they don't. They say they will codify abortion, and by and large they don't. They talk about a $15 an hour minimum wage, they talk about Medicare and student debt relief and while some of these things have gotten done on a state by state basis, or gained a little ground here and there, walking out of a Democratic presidency, we have the same supreme court, the same minimum wage, arguably worse medical care, and only a sliver of the required student debt relief. I understand that the Biden administration has been fighting rabid obstructionists every step of the way, but at the end of the day, Trump was fighting obstruction during his presidency as well, and yet he still damaged the country to it's core, and now he has free reign of all three branches of government. After being ignored, abused, and seeing almost none of their policy passed, how could a progressive genuinely support the democrats on any systemic level? I got in the dirt to support Harris, and I do genuinely think not voting was a morally reprehensible thing for this election, because progressives should be fighting fascism more than we should care about our honor, but I can at least say I understand.

I can't do solutions yet. Maybe eventually, but right now I'm not sure there is any form of solution. The Democrats have proven themselves historically unable to learn the lessons of failure, and the Fascists have complete control of the government. Pretty much the only solution I can think of at this point is "Hope the democrats are still around in four years, hope our elections are fair enough for them to matter, and hope that maybe, finally this lesson has sunk in, but that's a lot of maybes for a country that we can only imagine right now. There's a lot of ground to lose, and nothing to defend it.

I do want to say this, though, since somebody commented on it to me. I wasn't kidding about the gun thing. If there's any irony to be had here, gun rights will likely be protected for the foreseeable future, because the gun lobby is here to stay, apparently. After Biden's term is up, I would not expect the already limited protections Leftists have had from law enforcement to apply at all. It's unfortunate, (And I Am Definitely Not Advocating For Political Violence Do Not Mistake Me,) but the only protection we are likely to have for the future is ourselves and each other. If you can feel comfortable owning and carrying a firearm, (and there is no shame if you can't) I would highly suggest learning to do so if at all possible. Hate crimes tend not to happen when the Nazis think that their targets can defend themselves; fascists are not known for courage. Even if you never have to use it, and I hope and pray to god nobody does, the fact that they know it's a possibility may save lives in and of itself. Even if you can't do that, I highly suggest something, be it pepper spray, a taser, or a blade, especially if you are a woman. I'd expect to see an increase in physical assaults and rapes over the next couple of years, and if I can protect anyone with my advice, I feel I am obligated to.

Kamala Harris deserved to lose.

That’s a controversial statement, so let me get something out of the way right out the gate: I am not a Trump supporter. I fucking hate Trump’s racist, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, fascist guts, and I will until the day I die. I voted for Harris, I volunteered for her campaign and several other local campaigns in my area. I did everything a politically active person should do to participate in our democracy.

And yet I, and anyone who was paying attention knew how this election was going to go ahead of time, for one very simple reason. What were Kamala Harris’s policy positions? What did she actually run on? What did she say she was going to do differently? Building a million homes for working-class people who have had their salaries so undercutted by inflation and price hikes that they can no longer afford the kind of long term saving required for that? Increase child tax credits when grocery prices are so high that nobody can afford another mouth to feed? Raising taxes on billionaires? She’s the Vice President of the current administration, why are they not already being taxed? And furthermore, where is that tax money going? Clearly not Medicare for All, or Student Debt Relief, or anything that could actually constitute benefits for the average citizen.

Discussing which demographics are “responsible” for electing Trump is a fucking stupid discussion, and anyone engaging in it should feel absolutely fucking ashamed at buying into more crap that the oligarchs put up to divide us. Except for a few exceptions, the demographics were coin-flip toss ups. What happened was that Kamala Harris lost 15 million votes. Not to Trump, but to apathy. Trump got 3 million less votes than he did in 2020, and still won, because people didn’t vote for Harris. The battle was in voter turnout, like we always knew it would be, and the Democratic Party lost it. Why?

Because Kamala Harris ran, like Biden did, on being the anti-Trump. And regardless of whether or not you think that the Democrats are responsible for current woes, (and I do not,) that's not a winning strategy when the "Anti-Trump" is the one in power. Being the Anti-Trump isn't a policy position. It's not a solution to anyone's issues. It's merely a hope that people think Trump is worse, and as we've seen, regardless of whether or not it should, that does not win elections. When gas prices or grocery bills are so expensive people can barely afford to survive, saying "Well, those will be worse under Trump," is not a solution. It does not provide confidence that she has plans to fix the issues. It is a shrug of the shoulders, and a dismissal, and that's why so many people stayed home.

In 2020, when the problems could be blamed on Trump without any sort of understanding of the complex issues that caused the problems, because Trump was simply the one in power and The President's Job Is To Fix Everything, so being Anti-Trump worked. When Democrats have been in the white house for four years, and people feel like the problems still aren't fixed, they lose confidence that the democrats will fix the problem, so they don't vote.

When food prices are spiking, you don't say, "The other guy will make it worse," because that's what any candidate would say, and it's not particularly different than just purely mudslinging, and its a claim that Trump will deny vehemently, so you can't win that argument. What you need to say is "I'll subsidize agriculture," or, "I'll increase the accessibility and power of food assistance programs." Regardless of whether or not those things would actually work, what they are is some kind of solid plan to actually fix the fucking problem. It's said that people don't vote on policy, and that's true a lot of the time, or at least more than it should be, but people do vote on confidence, and having policy of any kind builds that confidence. Regardless of what you think of Trump, the man has plenty of plans to implement policy. It's terrible, awful, nation destroying policy, but that's getting into the details and the facts, and that's where the voters' eyes glaze over and they stop listening to you. The fact that Trump has plans to change the status quo and Harris does not is how she lost this election.

When the status quo is untenable, people will vote for whatever breaks it, and that wasn't Harris.

It also doesn't help that Harris has pretty much refused to significantly differentiate herself from Joe Biden, who has plenty of his own problems, and again, is the status quo. Joe Biden refused to step aside and relegate himself to being a single term president because of his personal pride, and the Democrats absolutely refused to consider not backing him until he was forced to step aside when his problematic degradation was put on full display for the entire country to see and mock. Then, instead of holding an actual primary, where voters could choose who they wanted to see on the Democratic ticket, they decided to simply coronate Kamala Harris, a historically unpopular candidate with historically low approval ratings, and force anyone who was against Trump to rally behind a candidate they didn't choose and statistically speaking don't like. Is it any wonder that her ticket hemorrhaged 15 million votes from 2020? That's before getting into her incredibly strange choices during her campaign, from again having essentially no policy positions, to picking a Tim Walz, who while being imo a good person, is from an entirely blue state and not a swing state, and has neither experience running against serious mainline GOP candidates, nor any real nationwide appeal beyond his personality, and we've already established that vibes don't turn out voters.

Kamala Harris, and on a larger scale the Democratic Party, deserved to lose this election because they have almost entirely abandoned any sense of being the progressive option. They've completely abandoned the progressive wing of their party, because who else are they going to vote for? Trump?

I don't like being the guy who says, "Harris hasn't earned the votes," because if you didn't vote, fuck you, you're nearly as culpable in this as the MAGAts, but is it any wonder why progressives are abandoning the democrats? After being ignored, fucked over time after time for nearly a decade at this point, literally screaming and begging for people to care about genocide, fascism, and the literal end of the world and getting a pat on the head and a vote sticker, what the fuck else did anyone expect? Harris cozied up with Liz Cheney and tried to court the votes of a few thousand moderate republicans, while tens of millions of progressive votes were expected, and then you're all trying to to blame them when those votes don't come? Shame, shame on you, ye moderate democrats who'd rather get into bed with the center-right than any kind of progressive, you get what you fucking deserve.

Normally, I'd laugh at establishment democrats fucking around and finding out, but this time, it's not just them finding out, it's the whole of America finding out with them. I don't really have any advice, because I'm just as shattered as anyone else. Hunker down, spend time with your loved ones, and maybe learn how to use a gun in case some neo-nazi decides to try to hate-crime you. I'm hoping that the Democrats learn their lessons from this, but honestly at this point, I'm not sure they're capable of learning, if there'll even be a democratic party to speak of come 2028. Right now, I'm gonna go stare at the election results and feel my faith in humanity crack a little bit more.

[bendgineer]

I think one of the reasons the Harris / Walz ticket has so much momentum is because the campaign is genuinely trying to put out this vibe of fun. Like that's all the "brat" thing is, the coconut jokes, just being kind of silly and fun.

And I think it's working, because let's be real, we are all exhausted. It's been all about preserving democracy, defeating fascism, the past eight years. The message has been "vote for us because the country is literally on the line". The vibes are not good when we are stuck back at that fight, and not even discussing trying to make progress on things like housing, healthcare, education, etc. And the fight to just stop fascism? All still true. Project 2025 is real and is extremely scary. We can't let that man back into office.

But the vibe was "vote for us otherwise we're all fucked :(" and now has shifted to "get in, we're making popcorn and then bullying fascists." Like a lot of the issues conservatives bring up, the Harris / Walz is just not engaging them in good faith, as they shouldn't. Republicans bring up abortion, and the Dems are just like, "you want 14 year old to give birth? Weirdo" and just leave it at that. Like YES, that's what you should do. Because it SHOULDNT be a debate. And it's working. This is how you defeat the identify politics thing Republicans have been trying to push for a while. Just mocking them for the stupidity of it all. "Like seriously? You think a book can make someone gay??? Hahaha." None of the Republicans are reacting well. They can't stand it. Vance even complained about bullying!!! Like do you KNOW who picked you as vp??? It's actually laughable, because they have no room to stand on when it comes to bullying.

And a huge part of the mocking and dismissing of Republicans is that the message is clear - were done debating all this stupid stuff. We've won the last two elections' popular vote - most Americans do NOT want christo-facism. It's time to move on. And that's what gives me hope, and the feeling of hope I think a lot of people have picked up on. It's time to address all the issues we've all wished we've been addressing the past decade. It's important we move onto that, and that's the message I'm getting from this campaign (We're not going back). I think it will resonate with a lot of people, because plainly, we're all just sick of this same old news cycle and fake rage bait over things like "should women have rights?", "Should gay people be allowed to exist?" The general populace have answered YES to both these multiple times, and it is time to move on. Maybe I'm being naive, but I am genuinely excited at the idea of putting to bed these debates (it's exhausting trying to fend your very existence) and moving on to actual economic and social policies that could fix a lot of deterioration over the last 2 decades.

[mmmthornton]

i don't hate gay people, i am a gay person and i.love gay people. i didn't smear her, i rightfully called her out on her transphobia, because people need to know she (and you) align yourself with those who smear people like me as pedophiles and rapists.

For context: https://www.tumblr.com/butch-reidentified/719311495708753921/pajrc1234-blocked-me-before-even-commenting-that I'm not sure why you sent this anon; i thought at first that maybe @pajrc1234 is a side blog but its the one you replied on? In any case, since my message to YOU was off anon and you used "I" to address yourself, for transparency I'm keeping your information here.

Hey, i'm really angry about this but I'm holding myself back from being mean and sarcastic to make a point.

The whataboutism? Stops fucking here. There ARE issues in the gay community. There ARE issues with lesbophobia, misogyny, there is petty drama, there is stupid bullshit, there is every conceivable kind of human flaw and foible to be found in human beings under the LGBT umbrella. Do you know why that is? Its because we're human beings, with all the variety that that entails.

That means that, for a community to still be able to come together, we need to recognize we'll bruise some elbows and even come across Genuine Bad Actors in all areas of life. We deserve to look out for OTHERS in our community by calling out behavior - BEHAVIOR - itself that is harmful.

What that does NOT MEAN. Is that you start a witch hunt, targeting almost EXCLUSIVELY same-sex attracted woman. for THINKING or ASSOCIATING with the "wrong" ideas or people.

Do you notice what I did there? Do you recognize theres a difference between "BEHAVIOR" and "THINKING"? or even "CRITIQUING"? Because I don't know that you do! And i don't know if a lot of the loudest voices in "queer activism" these days knows that either. Because it seems to me its pretty clear the people who are actually COMMITING the hate crimes that target gay people (uhhhh including trans women, because thats the only demographic anyone wants to talk about when they go into a lesbians inbox), are NOT people IN the community sharing tragic and traumatic events from their own lives.

Lesbians are members of the LGBT Community. Lesbians have a RIGHT to to be here, and we have a RIGHT to discus the things that are hurting us, same as anyone else.

What you DON'T have a right to do, is police the lived experiences of lesbians on the internet or otherwise, to play out your own victim complex. If YOU BELIEVE that eeeeveryone is out to get you, and that SOMEHOW the worst participants are lesbians on tumblr, I need you to know that is pathetic of you.

Women to start with - Cis women even, if you want to be specific - have the lowest possible numbers for violence. Cis women have the lowest numbers for supporting conservative ideas - by voting records! We have that data. Add on top of that, lesbians are a TINY minority of all cis women. So, a minority of a population that is more frequently targeted for violence is SO SCARY to you, that you HAVE to defensively smear their name before they can get you?

Grow the fuck up. I don't actually believe you're "afraid" of violence from lesbian women. I think you just found a way to be a bully and have your victim cake too. Women aren't required to be extra special niceys to you, the only thing we have to do is survive amidst the other factors that make that difficult, and honestly if you have to turn any attempt at LGBT healing into "But what if you maybe someday possibly align yourself with my actual enemies?!" I think you're a wuss. If you actually cared about chasing out bad actors and right wing extremists, you wouldn't go after the demographic that is the LEAST likely to vote republican.

You don't go after the real enemies, because you KNOW that men are more likely to be violent and abusive and harass you and do all the things that you accuse "TERF"s of doing. You're more afraid of them than you are willing to face the problem, and women are an easy target to you because of that. That is the definition of a coward. Hell, that's probably what got you so mad! @butch-reidentified was in a horrifying situation and survived, WHILE helping someone else, and it triggered you so badly you just dug deep into your ugly woman-hating soul to immediately slander her name and make it about YOU.

You. Are. Pathetic. Get better or shut up.

[spooky-something]

Hey, guys. Just so we know, every single person within the main political parties are pieces of shit including, YES, Democrats!!! Trump is a disgusting bigot, but Biden and Harris are genuinely no better whatsoever. The only difference is that they attempt to hide this via propaganda, and it works extremely efficiently. Fun fact: Trump is NOT associated with Project 2025. In fact, after doing research, because yes, I too, am not immune to propaganda, I learned he's actively DISTANCING himself AWAY from it. Does this mean I support Trump? Absolutely fucking not. I hate him beyond fathomable; but I hate Biden and Harris just the same! Remember, they're not good people. Just because fucking posts on here say something and it sure seems they're better, does NOT mean what you see is true. You are NOT immune to propaganda. Let's not vote Trump OR Harris. Third parties exist.

rb for bigger sample size. i'm actually really curious about this.

[nokingsonlyfooles]

Not disengaged enough to go to bed without comment...

Hell, I suppose writing it down will keep me honest in the future. If you ever catch me expressing relief over the results of this election, I have become a pod person.

Will probably be awake when Pennsylvania's data dump comes in, but heading to bed with the phone. Neither result was gonna be good. The democracy is not working, hasn't been for some time. We're waiting to learn who manipulated a broken system well enough to make it cough up a win, and then we'll pick a narrative that explains why voters would want that, because we pretend the system works and the results are what people wanted - although it was clear from the start that somehow the presidential election was being run with two candidates nobody wanted.

I don't see any reason for either side to tell a story that indicates we ought to step away from fascism and stop killing people. Republicans win, and I'm expecting to hear how Democrats didn't pull right hard enough, and the evil leftists stabbed them in the back. Democrats win, and I'm expecting to hear how pulling right is a good strategy and they don't need any leftists, just more conservative outreach!

So, will the continuing destruction be loud and chaotic or soft and organized? As I write this, it's lookin' like "loud and chaotic" may have pulled off a win. If the alarm goes off, AGAIN, I hope we address that, instead of waiting four more years with our collective hand hovering over the "snooze" button, AGAIN.

[strangedreamings]

About Me

My ask box is open to everyone (anon or not) EXCEPT ebeggars -- if you send me an ask looking for help, I'm going to delete your ask and block you for being a scammer.

I'm a fic writer (@dreaminonao3) and I have a full-time job, so I'm not nearly as prolific a writer as I'd like to be.

I'm over 40, though you'd be forgiven for thinking I'm half that by how enthusiastic I get about my fandoms. :)

I'm a nonpracticing Catholic and I have a lot of issues with the Church. (I'm pro-choice. Despite what the Church says, thoughtcrimes are definitely NOT sins. And a few other issues.) At this point, I doubt I'll ever be back in the Church's good graces, but then it'll never be back in mine either, so we're even.

Besides being raised Catholic, I was raised in a conservative Republican household. 2016-2020 really opened my eyes about how wrong the GOP is, though I was starting to see the light before then. I now vote Democrat but I'm currently still registered as a Republican and I will change it to Democrat when I move. I'm in a very red state but my current county is becoming more and more blue with each passing election year.

I'm very pro-ship. Write whatever you want, just tag it appropriately. Depiction ≠ glorification. Fictional characters are not real people, so you can do anything you want to them since you are not hurting a real person. Fiction is not required to give any moral lessons (or any other kind of lessons, for that matter).

I'm self-diagnosed as having mild ADHD. It's not enough to ruin my life but it really shows in my attention span when it comes to what fandom(s) I'm currently obsessed with and how long that obsession lasts. Thankfully, most fandoms I move away from circle back eventually. It also explains why most of my fics are either short one-shots or multi-chaps I take forever to finish (if I finish them at all).

I block people liberally but unless someone really pisses me off, the blocking doesn't last more than a few months. What can I say, I periodically clear out my block list with the exception of some people I can't fucking stand.

That reminds me -- I'm an adult and I sometimes curse. You know, "adult language." Got a problem with that? Block me.

I love rarepairs, non-canon ships, and canon/oc ships. After being in various fandoms for over twenty years, I'm at the point where I don't trust show/movie writers to not fuck up canon ships. Give me the ships no canon can sink. ;)

[gwydionmisha]

Looks like state election polling season has started.

Long time readers will know i get polled a lot, being in posession of a land line, and I generally answer them unless there is a pressing need not to, because I'm a bit of a connoisseur.

I just (Thursday) got extensively polled on the Attorney general race in my state, which is unusual. They occationally get folded into a governor or state legislature poll, but dedicated attorney general polls are rare. It started with the usual baseline questions and there were the usual demographic questions at the end, but 3/4 of the poll was attorney general stuff. It came off as legit as aposed to a push poll and was very issue oriented. I suspect one of the democratic candidate campaignes was funding it and I suspect they are working out ad strategies.

Usually, I'm more interested in biases and poll design, but this one had so much issues based stuff it left me legitimately weighing who I should vote for this summer. We're early enough in I haven't done the research yet. It's clear I'll need to do more than average. Of the people in the polls, it was the Republican I knew best and instantly dismissed. (On the Republican scale of conservative to nightmare, he's on the more reasonable end but there is no universe were I vote "back the blue.") One of the Democrats I've never heard of and the other I had a vaguely positive opinion, but neither did I know well. Both have some negatives but also really strong positives, hence the need to dig properly to see how much is real, how much is puff, and if there is anything disqualifying. Exciting!

[lesbiangummybearmafia]

Ok so 1953 was 70 years ago... 2053 is only 29 years away. This is my point the conservatives and Republicans in this country want to drag us all back 70 years ago if they had their way. I chose 1953 out of thin air, but pretty much any year of 50s. Because white men controlled everything back then. It's the 21st century for fuck sake, we're closer to 2053 now, are we all going to sit idly by allow them to this? Y'all realize we could easily vote all those old white bastards out of congress if enough got up off our butts and actually went out and voted, no matter what it takes. The only reason they stay in Congress and everywhere else is because more old conservatives and Republicans get out and vote. And I get those fuckers make impossible in alot of places to vote if we aren't one of them. But we gotta be fuck you, we're stronger, smarter, better, younger, more determined to have a better future. So we're not going to let their bullshit trickery and straight up cheating stop us from voting we'll get it done. Even just to piss those motherfuckers off. Vote for people of color, lgbtqia+ candidates, trans candidates, vote for not Republicans or Democratic candidates (if they get enough votes they'll win), vote for candidates that are younger then 50!! Just fucking vote, because even if think it does nothing, if dislike/hate conservatives/republican/fascist politicians voting against them will piss them the fuck off, prove them wrong about all of us, make them look stupid (which is always fun) and hopefully save our democracy. Because those motherfuckers are chipping away at it, it now huge fucking pieces their taking off not little pebbles. Just look at all laws they've passed at the state level to restrict our civil liberties, control free speech by banning books, passing laws to control women's reproductive rights, first the Supreme Court overturning Roe v Wade now having state after state passing insane laws banning abortions. In every case is a clear indication how much conservatives man don't care about women or our lives. Then the onslaught of laws targeting the trans community, limiting their access to health care they need and unleashing a wave of transphobic all over ourcountry. Also laws targeting the lgbtqia+ community, banning drag shows, that in theit history never hurt anyone. There a celebration.

We the people, remember there are way more of us then any political party, any amount of politicians, no matter how much powerful they think they are. We our number them! We are louder, we are angry, we are feed up, we are tried of the lies, we are tried of all the bullshit, we done being told what America should be like. Because that definition doesn't work anymore, we're gonna give America a new definition for right now! For the 21st century, for 2023 because we're not going the fuck backwards no fucking more. The only direction is forward, into the future, we want to know what America can be in 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now. That is not some conservative, Republican, fascist, authoritarian old white man wet dream!!! Nope, not happening not on our watch assholes!

We will not go gentle into that good night! We will rage, rage against the dying of the light!! In other words will not allow our democracy to be killed by traitors to our country that even now spit fascist ideals in Congress, in Governor offices, state legislators, mayors officials, city councils, school districts. Just look at horrors that been unleashed on Florida because of Ron DeSantis who is without doubt a fascist and an authoritarian!

That why the next elections are so important. Why it's so important to register to vote at

And go out vote or to make it easier if your state allows voting by mail, that what I do. I'm in Arizona, they send me a ballot in mail, I fill it out. I can either mail it or drop it off. It's great!! To see if your state has voting by mail go to.

Some other voting resources:

https://rockthevote.org

https://vote411.org

(Helps if your homeless and want to vote)

(Helps people with disabilities to vote)

[potatoesarecheese]

Look at me actually using my education for something. I actually want to talk about this a little bit.

I am not a Republican. I think it's pretty clear that, when I have to choose, I'm choosing the Democrats. So, I can't really speak for Republicans, but this is a comment from @the-psudo (the comment was too long to screen shot) that got my brain thinking:

"I'm also a registered Republican who is voting for Harris. I think it's important to be a registered Republican so I can vote against MAGA radicals in my state's closed primaries as well as in the general election. I even got elected to be the GOP Vice Chair of my local precinct, a job where I'm expected to coordinate local Republican opinion with local party leaders and representatives. For example, I voted for Nikki Haley in the primaries, and now most of her campaign officials have endorsed Harris. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/25/nikki-haley-backers-endorse-harris-trump.html When I admitted I was going to vote for Nikki Haley in the local caucus, there was an audible gasp of surprise from the caucus-attending Republicans. They were strangely conflicted between wanting more younger people (ie, not retired yet; I'm 43) involved in local politics, but also not wanting me to have any real authority as a delegate to vote on their behalf. One attendee talked to me for a long time afterward, telling me how ashamed she was of how I was treated and how MAGA had harmed the party. #RepublicansForHarris - We're out there, and we're not alone."

--

Forgive me if some of the details are wrong, this is just based on what I can remember from a discussion in my AmGov class a couple days ago, but, the party very specifically DID NOT want him running. They did not endorse him. And the many registered Republicans didn't want him either. He was still able to run simply because the party wasn't able to stop him.

A lot of Republicans have since shifted to align with Trump and his beliefs, but they didn't START like that, and many of them STILL HAVEN'T.

Trump is not Republican, he's just using their flag to get on the ballot. I believe this was the same thing with Hillary Clinton not being a Democrat.

MAGA is not the Republican Party. And it's definitely not the original "traditional" approach to what it means to be conservative. In fact, I'd argue that it's not even about politics. It's about Trump. It's about supporting him.

They would vote for Trump, regardless of his party. They would agree with him, regardless of his policies. He got this loud group of angry people to rally behind him, and got them to do something about their anger.

He got them to vote, and that's why he won- not because he was a good politician, and not because he was a good Republican.

Trump is a poor man's idea of a rich man. Trump is the weak man's idea of a strong man. Trump is a dumb mans's idea of a smart man.

And Trump has no place in politics.

My state is ruby red. Last week, I put up a Harris-Walz sign in my front yard up close to the porch. Every couple days, as I got braver, I moved it a few feet closer to the street where the visibility is better. Two days ago, my sign achieved its curbside position with maximum visibility.

Yesterday, I was out digging in my front yard (I'm rewilding my lawn) and a truck pulled over. A 62-year-old woman gets out, thanks me for my sign, and admits how scared she is to put up her own Democratic lawn sign. She's a registered Republican who hasn't voted for Republicans in more than a decade. We talked for half an hour and I just texted her about the VP Debate watch party this Tuesday.

Things learned:

Not all registered Republicans are actually Republicans.

Boomers and Gen X age voters are changing their minds.

Having a yard sign makes a difference.

Even ruby red states are more purple than you might think.

[spongebobafettywap]

Alright, my friend, I've got answers RE: Fresh Prince.

I honestly don't know how intentional it is, I have to assume very, but it's the same trend that you see with most Black civil rights activists who screwed around tryna change things from the "inside". You either die or live long enough blah blah. Ultimately, in order to move up in the food chain, you have to be absorbed into the same situation you were just protesting against. The show is a little bit vague on what kind of law he practices, but since there's so much money in it, it's clear that these are the wealthy elites that are funding his lifestyle.

Ultimately, so many social movements die because those that are impacted die and those that can rise above stop being allies, and it's the same thing with Uncle Phil. I think the show tries to balance it by showing that he cares far more about the happiness and security of his family than he does anything or anyone else (including Will, for a time), and that he's more than willing to sacrifice others (again, including Will) to make sure they're secure. That is, in a nutshell, the activist to right winger pipeline. Unfortunately, we're supposed to think that's a good thing (It is NOT).

They also try to balance it by having him run as a Democrat when he runs for judgeship, but he's clearly a conservative Democrat, and also he technically loses the election.

Idk if that's actually an answer, just that the show wants us to know he's a sellout who "grew up" and "screw it, I got mine"-d everyone else. Other Black people (like Will) struggle to succeed not because of racism, but because they just didn't apply themselves enough, and it's clear that he looks down on them for it. He was able to rise up from his roots, he was able to "talented tenth" his way to wealth, and everyone else simply isn't trying hard enough.

Now Aunt Viv being fine with him being conservative, they did a terrible job with that.

Oh yeah I'm aware of activists going right winger is a thing, I mean even being a left wing person seems to somehow eventually get a huge chunk of people sympathising with right wing nationalists from the East for no real reason and you can easily find these people on twitter. They literally support frigging Christofascists in the East as long as they say "America Bad" which is insane to me. That's an extreme example of course but basically I've very much aware these people exist. (as I've wound many up for having this garbage morality LOL)

Honestly I'm not sure how much the show wants us to think what Phil does is a good thing, given how often Will calls him out for this and its Phil's liberal policies that are the celebrated ones. I mean I guess Phil went from Activist to Republican to Democrat maybe the Republican part was a holdover from the earlier story where Phil's story wasn't as fully developed and they envisioned the Banks as behaving more posh. I dunno to me I just found it confusing because I can't think of many Black Civil Rights activists going conservative in that time period at least though I'm sure examples exist of course, to me it just seems more likely they'd lose their edge and become liberal democrats.

Honestly with Will it seems like what you said in the ask is mostly contradicted by the show, I think there's a few times where Phil is willing to sacrifice or send Will away but more often Phil does show that he wants to help out the younger generation/other black people like that scene where he tells Will he worked hard to open doors for him (the younger black generation) and it doesn't make him any less of a man to walk through them.

Aunt Viv is a whole mess given the background situation on her lol but I think that may be answered in another post, I have my own headcanons for her. But I agree I just can't see her being Conservative either let alone being okay with Phil being one. But stuff like this makes me think the perception of those political parties was slightly different back then.

[omshant]

Dude WHO are the slaves of 666, s&s, and g? Are they all already marked? Do you think it's possible they would all eventually just kill each other or kill themselves? Or do they want help? Do they want to repent and change their ways? How long would that take? Can they be forgiven? Can they be forgiven at this point? Can they be forgiven now? Do you think they are mostly or all of any particular race or faction? Do you think there are some scattered among all the races? I'm reflecting now on early December last year when I started clearing my mind and working with th Angels in clothing stores and hotel lobbies and stuff to get the g hoards/other oppressors/inferiors to clear out. That was so awesome. Oh my gosh. Idk dude I guess maybe you just kinda know. Or at least they know. I think they also may be repelled by me when I clear my mind. That's kind of like a super power dude! What else can I do? You guys gotta let me know. I don't trust my own perception(s) because I tend to trust everyone. I guess I'm just here to represent for the youth and All Black Lives (I think/I hope.. for sure.). and then Hindus, Hispanics seem cool to me now. Believers. Sare bambini aur unke aatmaein. I guess Asians.. definitely the Japanese. The other Asians seem kind of heartless to me. But maybe they're all/the smart ones are probably on our side because they know we're better. Still, Asians eat dogs tho. Also I always gotta s/o for Jews/God's people, Italia, Vikings and pirates. Dude, also, why is everyone so into the Russia-Ukraine conflict? And why does everyone support Ukraine? Is Ukraine objectively the good guys here? Maybe. Idk though. I don't know anything about it. And I don't get it. I guess Russia is landgrabbing? I just know that those people protesting outside my building are not nice. Also, Palestine? No. Dude this country seems flooded now with weak degenerates and infiltrators shilling for Gaza. I stand for Israel alone. Also, those people should not be bringing their kids to hold up signs to represent for Hamas. That's twisted. What else do people care about? I guess politics? Is Biden still our president? I want someone else. Or maybe no one. It's all lame/uninteresting to me. I guess I'm maybe conservative or moderate? But also definitely not a Republican. I'm also very sensitive, like Bløøds, and fragile, like STREETS. What's going on in Africa/SWAZILAND? Seems like most people don't care about that stuff. But I'm very curious. What do you guys think most Arabs are like besides intensely hating on queers/homos and Jews? I have so many more questions. But I don't feel like looking this stuff up. I also just don't know how much of the news is really fake news and what channels or sources to consider. I do have the NEWSREAL app.

'If you turn on TV, all you see's a bunch of 'what the fucks'

Dude is dating so and so, blabbering 'bout such and such

And that ain't Jersey Shore, homey, that's the news

And these the same people supposedly telling us the truth

Limbaugh is a racist, Glenn Beck is a racist

Gaza Strip was getting bombed, Obama didn't say shit.."

[nokingsonlyfooles]

Brigitte Empire! She's just done a big move to escape TERF Island, and YT (and associated donations) are her only source of income right now. Listen, like, and reply to her video (you don't have to read the YT comments - though most aren't too bad - just say "hi") to help her out with the algorithm, and give money if you can.

And, while I have your attention, how DOES one differentiate between a nice, civil protest and a lawbreaking riot?

Well, is "one" an ordinary human being without a badge - press or police/security?

Like these BLM folks right here?

...Then your input is not required. Sorry. You don't actually get to define whether you're here to be heard or to break shit and ruin it for everyone. You have no authority over your message, and we do not believe you when you express your intent, especially if there's any (I mean ANY) property damage. Human lives are more important than some light vandalism and broken windows, you say? Well, lalalalala, 'cos we're not listening.

But if "one" does have a badge...

Aha! Behold, a miscreant!

Yes. Take that, you... you building-haters!

...one is allowed, nay, expected to put the proper framework around this chaos of, uh, human beings asking for human rights with their (theoretically) protected right to protest.

And this framework is subject to change!

...like, a lot of change. Within a single human lifetime, MLK goes from commie threat to conservative icon, and the protests he helped organize go from "tut-tut, so uncivil" to a triumph of nonviolent resistance. Gandhi and his tactics have gone through a similar rehabilitation/reclaimation.

And Stonewall? It's gone from a riot to a protest to a riot, with an ever-evolving cast of heroes, villains, and participants. Brigitte up there steered clear of who was involved and what their motivations may have been, and I suppose I will too, because we're all very attached to our own personal mythology. We all want to have been there, and there's some backlash and othering for people with queer identities that aren't part of the mythos.

I will say, though, that the man-o-sphere-centric film Buck Breaking sure did cough up an interesting interpretation for us. (Don't bother to watch it, I didn't, I just read/listened about it. It seems painful.) To the brain trust behind this propaganda piece, Stonewall was a BLACK riot - with no queer folks involved at all, certainly not any Black queer folks - and we STOLE it from them. I'm not gonna take that apart either, F. D. Signifier already did, and his experiences give him a better viewpoint than mine.

A riot is defined, and fueled by the police reaction in the moment, and afterwards, the media and politicians will carve it up however they see fit. Generally speaking, contemporary sources tend to err on the side of the police, and slowly get more revisionist as time passes. If the cops don't want you where you are, they will come up with a reason to remove you, provoking one if necessary. (See, my earlier post today, responding to efforts to make it more difficult to protest in the States.)

Cops are trained to parse any disturbance (even a bunch of kids singing patriotic music at the Capitol to score cheap points for the Republican House Speaker) as a threat, and they will minimize or remove it. A protest that does not cause a disturbance is not an effective protest. Thus, ANYTHING can be a riot. And, once the cops fire a few chemical weapons into the crowd, it sure will look like one. That's nice for any newspaper photographers who happen to be in the area!

This is why, when I talk about violent protests, I say the violence happens, like a rainy day or a sneeze. Speaking as a bleeding-heart lefty progressive (I don't show up for shit like January 6th), most people aren't looking to hurt anyone, they just want to be heard. If you do look like you're just there to start some shit, or you bring a weapon, someone will take you aside and ask you to go home, or at least leave that shit in the car. People with obvious weapons make a suitable excuse for the police to start some shit of their own - and we'd all rather not be pepper-sprayed or gassed, thanks. But if the cops want you gone, they are able to turn up the pressure until someone snaps, and then they'll start doing damage and making arrests anyway.

The first Pride was a riot, and a protest, and the participants repaid police violence against them with violence against the police. Police do their violence on behalf of the State, so we tend to overlook it, or spread the responsibility around until everyone is a little bit complicit. (We live in a democracy, right? Right?) But the truth is, a riot can be self-defense. It just doesn't look like it in the papers, because systemic oppression doesn't photograph very well.

Nothing about what's happening is "civil." "Civility" is not what anyone is after, here. What they want is silence. Silence just lets them keep doing whatever the hell they were doing, while pretending we're all OK with it. If you raise your voice, they will do whatever they can to shut you down. They lie, they cheat, they wound, and they kill.

Well, you can't make any noise if you're dead. So first, stay alive. And then, if you can, yell your fucking head off. Don't quiet down no matter what label they hit you with. If you're lucky, one day you'll be a triumph of nonviolent resistance too!

[jeanjauthor]

Okay, we actually have an even better chance with this, since I know a lot of people still want to aim their hate at Biden for so many things. (A few of which he should be glared at for, admittedly, but the vast majority have been beyond his control.)

...I want everyone to think very carefully about how humiliating it will be for the current Republican nominee & the extremist conservatives to be beaten by a woman. Not just the first Black man in office--which we did even though everyone said it couldn't, wouldn't happen!--but A Woman In The Oval Office.

Not only that, but a woman who has been training for that office in the single most effective administration in decades.

She's in the prime of her life, healthy & clear-minded.

She has the training, the skills, and the vision to continue building upon the hundreds of little things that have Made America Far Greater than that last joke of an administration, thanks to some of her behind-the-scenes efforts these last 3.5 years.

To be honest, I'm actually relieved Joe Biden is stepping down, even if it's a bit unsettling to change pilots just before the plane leaves the airport. He is getting a bit too old for the rigors of this job. I was worried he'd have a heart attack or a stroke mid-job.

But Harris isn't a rookie pilot who's only ever flown simulator missions. She's been co-piloting our nation for nearly four years. And everything I have read up about her and her efforts, I never once had the feeling she would be a bad president...unlike Pence, who terrified me because of his stance on thinking that "conversion therapy" (torture so awful that survivors have a 40% rate of attempting to self-terminate) is not only a good idea, but should be mandated by law.

...I am genderfluid. I fall under the Transgender umbrella. I would be affected by that kind of law.

Kamala Harris would never inflict that kind of atrocity upon any of us.

She is not white. She can pass for it at a quick, casual glance (if you assume her skin color is a suntan), but her father was born in Jamaica (Black), her mother born in India (South Asian), and she has lived in America...which unfortunately is still full of racism, even though we are getting better.

Kamala understands what it means to grow up as a minority in America, on top of being treated like a second-class person simply because of her gender. And it's not just lip-service! She has already shown a great deal of compassion and understanding toward various minority groups of all sizes and shapes, and she has also fought for minority rights & acceptances all this time.

The only thing I'm nervous about in a Harris administration is who her running mate will be.

But I am abso-DAMNED-lutely sure that whoever it is will be WAY BETTER than their opponents.

Do NOT split the vote! A "protest" vote will destroy America.

Even the worst Democratic candidate will be better than the architects & implementers of Project 2025, but they will only win if we back them fully...and as we're stuck with this shitty two-party system, this is how we have to do it.

Vote for the people you know will either have your back, or can be persuaded to have your back.

We are still in the worst fight for the Nation of America to survive, outside of a literal return to civil war...and we saw that violence genuinely attempted, last time, by the frontrunner of the Republican Party.

Be prepared, but be LOUD about voting.

France shut out the fascists in their own country.

We need to shut them out, too.

(...and seriously, it will oh so gloriously humiliate the GOP & especially their filthy frontrunner if a Black/Asian Woman wins, heeheehee!!!)

...Lastly, a reminder:

VOTE AT ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT

Shut out the Republicans at all levels, from the head of our nation all the way down to the head of the local school board.

The GOP as a political party is literally siding with insurrectionists who have a list hundreds of tasks long on how they plan to further dismantle and wreck what remains of our nation.

Shut them out of every single office.

Vote Strategically even if you cannot get the perfect candidate.

Vote Stragegically especially if you cannot get the perfect one, this time.

Vote Strategically so there will be a next time.

:/

...Now the real work begins: to see off that other guy regardless.

ETA, because as usual John Scalzi says it well:

No. We're not fucked. There's no giving up, because if we do THEN we're fucked. Don't just give the fuckers the win, now or ever. Fight for yourself, fight for the people you care about, fight for the people who will be even more fucked than you will be. Be pissed that you have to fight. But fight.

And ETA2:

My fellow Democrats, I have decided not to accept the nomination and to focus all my energies on my duties as President for the remainder of my term. My very first decision as the party nominee in 2020 was to pick Kamala Harris as my Vice President. And it’s been the best decision I’ve made. Today I want to offer my full support and endorsement for Kamala to be the nominee of our party this year. Democrats — it’s time to come together and beat Trump. Let’s do this.

[qqueenofhades]

i’m sorry you’re getting all of us ~venting~ about this, but I gotta. i’m a journalist. i write for some major publications in my neck of the woods. i’m driven increasingly insane by how much colleagues believe in the Intrinsic Rationality of Man, and have these solemn discussion about how people wouldn’t be buying into all of this disinfo if only We Listened To The People’s Concerns Better.

i always find myself having to explain that my father was radicalized because his life was moderately inconvenienced by smoking bans & now everything science that inconveniences his life has got to be a conspiracy. that you are not getting his trust back unless you start publishing information that is objectively incorrect but 'feels' right. information that is actually against his best interest, and leads to short-sighted action that fixes nothing, but he just badly wants to believe is true.

i had a conversation with him recently where he went on another tear about how people were voting for these extreme right parties because They Were Oppressed and what else were they going to do? i snapped and pointed out that the folks he were linking were also responsible for talk and policy that’s actually oppressing trans people and who might move on to advocate for policies that would hurt me, a queer woman, and my friends. he went silent for a moment and said, 'well, i don't know anything about that world'.

and that was that.

I mean, this is the end result of the "ECONOMICALLY DISADVANTAGED" argument, which outlets like the New York Times were particularly fond of doing during the 2016 presidential campaign and after. They ran endless pieces on poor working-class white people planning to vote for Trump, with the framing that it was because of "economic concerns" that left them feeling like Trump The Business Maestro (except you know, not) would fix that. The implication was also clear that we were supposed to feel bad for them or at least rationally understand their vote for Trump, since they were Economically Disadvantaged and something something that made it clear why they would vote for him despite him being truly heinous in literally every way.

Except... nobody ever seemed to point out the obvious, which is that American working-class people of every race have been FUCKED by forty years of Republican and neo-Republican economics, and that's the reason they are Disadvantaged in the first place?? So the Republicans burned down their house and we're supposed to understand that they're voting for more Republicans to throw more fuel on the fire, and additionally act like Economic Disadvantage is the real problem, and not yknow, the racism, nativism, fascism, and appeal to the paranoia of white America that they need to stop any more Brown People from taking over after Obama? If they were in fact truly concerned about the Economy or their own personal fortunes in any way that made sense, they would vote for Democrats, but as I have said, they won't do that as long as the Democrats also intend to help or empower non-white people. They have been so snookered on triumphalist libertarian mythology about how the only Real Americans Pull Themselves Up By Their Bootstraps, rather than relying on the decadent and immoral government splashing out to "welfare queens" (another Reaganism that was often implicitly or explicitly synonymous with "black person") that they will steadfastly oppose even those policies which would personally help them. As we have discussed, the "conservatives are good for The Economy" myth is not just false but dangerously so, and yet it's still readily accepted and cited as a rationale to vote for them, or act like their horrific other beliefs and policies don't exist or have a real effect.

Anyway: I'm sorry you have to deal with that within your own family, but it is fairly telling as an example of the overall trend. After so long holding unquestioned social and cultural dominance and automatic priority to financial and economic resources, a lot of white people think that giving anything to anyone else is Oppression!! and morally justifies their vote for fascists, the same way "men's rights activists" think that any move toward equal opportunities for women is Sexism Against Men. Likewise, we exist in a ruthlessly individualistic and selfish Ayn Randian nightmare where the highest good is only for you, always, and fuck everyone else or any tiny sacrifice you might be asked to make to live in a collective society or value anyone else's comfort and safety. So fuck 6000 years of human history and working out how to live together and look out for each other, I guess. It's always just Me Me Me, the end.

[beardedmrbean]

Whoopi Goldberg, co-host of ABC's "The View," became the latest figure on the show to apologize on Thursday for remarks she made linking the conservative organization Turning Point USA to neo-Nazis.

"In Monday's conversation about Turning Point USA, I put the young people at the conference in the same category as the protesters outside, and I don't like it when people make assumptions about me," Goldberg said. "And it's not any better when I make assumptions about other people, which I did. So my bad, I'm sorry."

The brief mea culpa, which didn't explicitly note the "protesters" were apparently White supremacists, marked the latest development after the ABC talk show was threatened with legal action. Goldberg and co-host Joy Behar made remarks Turning Point called defamatory following White supremacist protests outside its TPUSA Student Action Summit last weekend in Tampa, Fla.

The dust-up started Monday when "The View" co-hosts mocked the elaborate event, and Behar criticized the group because neo-Nazi protestors were present outside the venue. 

NAZI PROTESTS WITNESS JASON RANTZ WEIGHS IN ON ABC NEWS APOLOGY TO TURNING POINT, DESCRIBES EXPERIENCE

"Neo-Nazis were out there in the front of the conference with anti-Semitic slurs and, you know, the Nazi swastika and a picture of a so-called Jewish person with exaggerated features, just like (Joseph) Goebbels did during the Third Reich. It’s the same thing, right out of that same playbook," Behar said. 

She then said that Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, R., "did nothing," but failed to mention the Republican governor attended the event the day before neo-Nazis appeared. 

Later on the program, "The View" read an on-air legal disclaimer to inform viewers that Turning Point USA condemned the neo-Nazis protestors who had "nothing to do" with the organization. 

"But you let them in, and you knew what they were," Goldberg said before the panelists were forced to read another disclaimer and explain the neo-Nazis were "outside protestors," not ones allowed in. "My point was metaphorical," Goldberg said. 

Fox News Digital later reported on a letter from TPUSA that told "The View" to retract the comments or face legal action. The show obliged in the form of co-host Sara Haines reading a note to viewers on Wednesday.

TURNING POINT USA ISSUES CEASE AND DESIST TO ABC NEWS OVER ‘DEFAMATORY STATEMENTS’ ON ‘THE VIEW’

"On Monday we talked about the fact that there were openly neo-Nazi demonstrators outside the Florida Student Action Summit of the Turning Point USA group. We want to make clear that these demonstrators were gathered outside the event and that they were not invited or endorsed by Turning Point USA," she said.

"A Turning Point USA spokesman said the group ‘100 percent condemns those ideologies’ and said Turning Point USA security tried to remove the neo-Nazis from the area but could not because they were on public property," Haines continued. "Also, Turning Point USA wanted us to clarify that this was a Turning Point USA Summit, and not a Republican Party event. So, we apologize for anything we said that may have been unclear on these points."

A TP spokesperson balked at Haines, not Goldberg, making the apology. Conservative radio host Jason Rantz, who attended the event and saw the neo-Nazi protests, agreed it should have been Goldberg.

TURNING POINT USA'S CHARLIE KIRK ON THE VIEW'S ‘SMEAR’: WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET THIS GO

"Whoopi Goldberg should have been the one who apologized. The bulk of the complaints go toward comments that she made, she oftentimes speaks completely out of turn coming through a lens of misinformation. She’s known for that, and she should be the one to step up and say, ‘Look I apologize, I screwed up on this," Rantz told Fox News Digital.

Turning Point founder Charlie Kirk told "Jesse Watters Primetime" on Wednesday that the organization was still entertaining legal action against the program.

"We're talking to some of the best lawyers out there that are experts in this. And as you know, these things can be very complicated," he said.

"The View" and Goldberg are no stranger to controversy, particularly when it comes to the subject of Nazis. Goldberg was suspended by the show earlier this year when she said the Holocaust was "not about race," suggesting Jews and Gypsies persecuted by the Third Reich were "two White groups of people."  

[gayahithwen]

Concept: a documentary that's marketed as being about "the hidden death cult in America". Being shown in theaters. Make it vague but intriguing. They could be living in your neighborhood! That kind of thing. (And you know they don't check their sources very well, so... lol).

Start the movie by saying something along the lines of this (similar to the preface to In the Heights, but even more):

"Some people are about to stand up and walk out of here in a giant hissy fit, because they are immature children who feel compelled to make a scene, rather than listen to anyone else's perspective for even a moment. Now, if you're not an immature child, I'm not saying you have to stay and watch - just don't make a scene and we're good. If this makes you uncomfortable and you want to leave, just take your belongings and go. You'll get a full refund at the front desk. Now, about the Republican party..."

And then go into detail with how the conservative fear machine works. How it drives people into a frenzy. How it has tied itself to a religious identity. And have interviews with sociologists and psychologists and politicians and religious leaders and whatever celebrities can be trusted to stay at least broadly on message. And really focus on how internalized the fear becomes over time, and how it drives people to do terrible things, things people know are not right.

And end it on a plea for conservatives to not let their fear overcome them, but explaining how the situation is becoming untenable. And that we don't need (or even want) for them to give up on all their beliefs. We just need them to actually show us they believe in anything at this point. Because it seems like they don't stay politically engaged out of anything but fear and spite at this point. And it's got to be exhausting to live like that.

So just... stop letting them tell you who we are and unclench long enough to actually discuss this with whatever liberals you know. Actually ask them about the things they want. Stop projecting your own fear and insecurities on everyone else and actually listen.

Like. A however-minute long therapy session with conservative America. (With a focus on the cult-like fear-spiral they're actively inducing, which honestly looks like it's going all the way to civil war or Jonestown at this point). With some clear villains (Fox News; most of the current GOP leadership - maybe put forward some of the more respectable Republicans as potential candidates for getting reinvigorated), and a message that's saying we don't blame them, just their leaders, but we really do need them to do something about those leaders now.

Think that intro would goad enough people into staying long enough to absorb at least some of it?