#AND TURNING IT INTO SOME KIND OF ACTION FOR NO REASON

[ncityprincess]

With All My Love, John💌

Another one for the long-term relationship— ultimate boyfriend—husband—partner—father Johnny cinematic universe 🙂‍↕️

This is basically porn w/ no plot. Happy Valentine’s Day! 💘💌❤️‍🔥

WC: <2K

Warnings: vibrator usage, squirting, dirty talk. Johnny and y/n are very comfortable with each other sexually.

*Feel free to read these but not mandatory:*

Nighttime routine

The one before the big three-oh

Forever home

Dad John™️ series (masterlist)

MDNI.

February 14th: the day of romance, chocolates, and dirty, sinful, nasty pleasure.

You’d think being with the same person for so many years would eventually get stale and mundane. Maybe that was the fate of some unfortunate couples, but it seemed as though you and Johnny were only growing more fond of each other as time passed.

The two of you had fostered a healthy and stable relationship built on trust, kindness, and authenticity. You had a partner who held your heart and vulnerabilities close to him like a chain wrapped around an anchor. He couldn’t bear to take your trust in him for granted, and he made that clear through his actions. Feeling the security of those many layers of trust is what made you let loose and expand your mind with him.

It’s not like you guys had a secret sex dungeon hidden in your basement or anything, (although something tells you that Johnny wouldn’t be completely opposed to that renovation project) but it never felt weird to request certain activities in the bedroom. Johnny would never turn his nose up at any of your suggestions, and you were always up to try almost anything once. Plus, being naturally creative people meant that you were pretty boundless.

It started with you asking him to be a little rougher with you sometimes, maybe pull your hair a little harder and wrap his hand around your throat a teeny bit more snugly. After seeing this new side of you, this unabashed pleasure, Johnny felt more comfortable letting out some fantasies of his own.

Ever the film and photography lover, he suggested you two make a movie of your own, right on his MacBook Pro webcam. “We can pretend we’re cam stars. Imagine a bunch of pathetic fucks tugging on their cocks watching the most beautiful woman in the world get absolutely wrecked. They’d fucking love you, baby. What do you think about that?”

There wasn’t much to think about because you were already taking your top off and laying back on the bed waiting for him to set up the perfect shot. That little rendezvous naturally led to more role-play scenarios, as well as fun little costumes, which was always a fun time.

Needless to say, you and Johnny were more than comfortable with one another. That’s how you found yourself in this predicament: wrists restrained to your California king bed in pink silky ties and your legs splayed open, stocking-covered toes clenching into the mattress looking for something, anything to ground you.

And that stupid fucking vibrator glued to your clit making you feel way too good.

“Ahhhhhhh fuck baby,” you threw your head back against the plush pillow and rode out your fourth orgasm of the evening. High-pitched sounds of ecstasy bounced off the walls, along with the steady hum of the mighty vibrator that was working between your legs, courtesy of your man’s strong hand.

Johnny leered over your shaking body, bottom lip tucked between his teeth. Hearing you come undone was easily his favorite sound in the world. He could listen to it on repeat for hours, which was why he was engaging in this act in the first place. He figured making you cry out in pleasure with a vibrator on your pretty little clit was the greatest cherry on top of a beautiful day like today. Or maybe he just wanted to see you like this for his own selfish reasons. Who knows.

He played it cool the whole day, starting with waking you up with a gorgeous flower arrangement and your favorite donuts. He placed a soft kiss on your forehead and wished you a happy Valentine’s Day.

Then, before giving you a few hours of peace and space to get ready for dinner, he left you a cute gift basket filled with two new perfumes you’d been dying to try, your favorite candies, a set of Sanrio-themed sheet masks, and the most darling lingerie set you’d ever laid eyes upon.

Baby pink, so soft that it could easily be mistaken for white. The bra top had intricate lace straps, and the bottoms had a flattering cut that would surely accentuate your hips and ass. The set was complete with a matching garter belt and knee-high stockings. You couldn’t wait to start your shower routine so that you could get ready and try this beauty on.

Tucked into the basket was a note from Johnny. It was simple, but still conveyed so much:

You're my everything. I want to spend a million Valentine's Days with you. I hope these treats put a smile on your face, sweetheart. Can’t wait to see that little number on you tonight. Happy Valentine’s Day.

With all my love,

John

Later in the evening during your romantic dinner at the swanky steakhouse downtown, Johnny slipped a signature blue jewelry box out of his pocket and presented the most gorgeous tennis bracelet to you. It was so beautiful that you started tearing up, mouth agape at the stunning jewelry and the romantic gesture. He placed the dazzling bracelet onto your wrist and you held it up into the light, completely mesmerized and giddy.

It was your reactions to his efforts that made him adore you even more. He would quite literally do anything for you, but to have you be so receptive and appreciative of him is an added incentive for him to keep making you react like this.

Which is why he was sat at the dinner table highly anticipating your reaction to his last little gift of the evening. One that you’d only see in the four walls of your bedroom, away from the rest of the world. You’d find out about that later though. For now, he hid his mischief behind a large gulp of wine…

Finally, you two were back at the house. Temptation and suspense lingered in the air. The culmination of this holiday finally led to this moment. The moment.

Johnny, calm and suave as always, guided you gently by the small of your back upstairs to your shared bedroom. Cabernet and lustful anticipation swirled in your chest, knowing that the night was just about to get started.

And now, as the fire in your belly reignites and your moans get more obscene, you were positive that sex with Johnny Suh would never ever be stale, nor mundane. Suddenly, you were getting sent over the edge by that pink death machine yet again.

“Good job sweetheart, that was your fifth one. Can you give me one more?” You nodded your head weakly, looking up at him through half-lidded eyes. You took a small sigh of relief when Johnny removed the vibrator for a few moments, thankful for the break from this delicious torture.

“You’re making such a mess,” he halfheartedly chastised, saying your name in a way that made you drip even more. You whined when he ran his large hand up your thigh, suddenly missing the buzzing sensation of the wand.

“So eager…even after all that,” Johnny chuckled. He was teasing you, yes, but he was also pretty impressed by your stamina. His little slut. He loved you so much.

You let out a soft moan when he placed the vibrator back onto you. At this point, your orgasms were happening in quick succession, so it was just a matter of time before you were on the brink of cumming again. This time, however, you felt an even stronger sensation in the depths of your belly.

Johnny palmed himself through his dress pants with his free hand, relishing in your sweet, soft pants. He liked the way your hands were periodically searching for something to cling onto despite being trapped by the confines of the ties. You were so close to the tipping point.

What he didn’t expect, though was delighted to see, was a large burst of liquid shoot out of you and onto the sheets. The scream that escaped your throat sounded foreign to your ears. That was the orgasm that sent you directly to another realm.

You didn’t even notice Johnny turning off the vibrator and setting it aside until you felt him untie your wrists with quick precision and capture your lips in a kiss full of love and gratitude. His sudden kiss was mostly for allowing him to have this side of you just for himself. And also because you are just so goddamn intoxicating.

“I think…you just killed me…and then brought me…back to life again… “ you babbled in between kisses. Johnny threw his head back in complete amusement and leaned back down toward you. He placed gentle kisses on your wrists, though you were in no pain at all thanks to the silky ties not being too tight. He took a moment to marvel at the tennis bracelet wrapped around your pretty little wrist. It look absolutely ravishing on you, he mused.

“Hands and knees, baby,” Johnny ordered softly.

However, the ask was useless because he was already maneuvering your body into the position he wanted you in most.

[essycogany]

Why Shadow And Cream SHOULD Be A Duo

These are mostly Headcanons. They rarely interact, so I’m here to cover all of the things.

My first reason is they'd have the BEST DYNAMIC. Shadow is the mentor and Cream is his student. I know some people like the idea of him influencing her to be more violent, (which can be fun) but I prefer the idea of Cream solving problems in her own way whenever she's on a mission with Shadow. All of the crazy atrocities happening around her doesn't faze her in the slightest. She can be a tough cookie, but still soft on the inside and out. She doesn’t have to change her sweet spirit to be powerful in her own right.

Second reason. They would complement each other in the best way. Shadow could use someone to protect and I know Amy’s a good option, but there’s something about Cream that works better in my opinion. She’s younger, less experienced, brave, encouraging, kind, and ADORABLE. No, she isn’t and shouldn’t be a Maria replacement. I don’t want any character to have a good dynamic with Shadow just because said character reminds him of Maria. BUT Cream does have similar traits to her. More than Amy to an extent. The pink hedgehog is much more aggressive. Shadow would have a unique dynamic with Cream. Why? Because Cream is a literal child he needs to protect her at all costs. But she’s too stubborn to care about her safety. The older Cream gets, the more determined she is to go on adventures with him.

Because she’s so persistent, Shadow would feel obligated to teach Cream Chaos Emerald abilities. She would do terribly at first, but once she finally concentrates and takes her training seriously, she’d ace it.

The third reason I believe they’d be a great duo is because Cream would do her best to help him emotionally. But that’s not all. Shadow would notice how hard she’s trying and how much she struggles with failure. I’d imagine her taking it very badly due to a few issues in IDW and Sonic Dream team. Don’t get me started on the Metal Virus. She had to be the emotional support for Whisper (and the sweetheart did an amazing job) while she still struggled internally. Cream was the truest MVP during the Metal Virus.

But yeah! She’d definitely need someone with more experience with loss to help her with her self-esteem issues. Cream has so little confidence in herself when she shouldn’t. I know she has Sonic, Blaze, Amy, her mother, and many others but I believe Shadow would be the one to turn that emotion into action. He’s been through plenty. He wouldn’t just cheer her up (though he’d probably still try) but give her direct action base prof that she’s wrong with her training. She might not only need to be told she’s cable but also be physically shown.

I’d like to think she’d be able to pull as much weight for Shadow as he’d do for her. The tough love and support system. Like Sonic and Tails but with a Good Cop Bad Cop dynamic.

Cream still has Gemeral/Cheese and of course, they’ve already protected her the best way, but I’d like to think Shadow would be the one to teach her how to physically fight so she’d be able to help Gemeral. Then he wouldn’t have to worry about her too much. It’ll be like a training session. It helps that she’s already physically strong but Shadow would only help her enhance it.

She’d be an honorary member of Team Dark and would sneak into their missions. I’m not sure how Vanilla would feel about it but maybe this would be a situation where she’d find out when Cream’s older. Like a superhero reveal or something. Maybe Vanilla would have a long conversation with Shadow and Cream would stand up for him and take all of the blame. She’s loyal to a fault.

Their friendship also just sounds adorable to me. I can imagine Cream being surprisingly mature and intelligent and Shadow is always shocked. They'd talk about the different planets and stars together, daydreaming about a more peaceful world. Then instantly start kicking butt with Rouge and Omega and take down a giant monster and work with GUN. I think Rouge would question Shadow every time Cream came with them.

Rouge: Ugh! Shadow, why did you bring her here?! AGAIN?!

Shadow: I didn't. She came on her own.

Rouge: And you ALLOWED HER?!

Shadow: You can't say “no” to Cream. I've learned that the hard way.

It’s either letting Cream go with him or dealing with her whining for the rest of their picnic. Shadow isn't patient enough for that.

What kind of fun names would you guys give these two? Good Cop Bad Cop? Emerald Besties? Rebel Do-Gooders? Let’s give them a name!

That’s all the ideas I have for now. If you guys have any, I’d love to read them. My ask box is always open!

Stay Creative! 💜

[changbunnies]

Mint (18+)

♡ Pairing: Changbin x Fem!Reader

♡ Genre: fluff, smut, pwp

♡ Word Count: 2.7k

♡ Summary: It's the little things your boyfriend says and does that fills you with love for him; and you'll take any opportunity, no matter how small and mundane, to shower him with the love he deserves.

♡ Smut Warnings: light d/s dynamics (switch!bin and reader), vaguely plus size reader (because i am nothing if not self indulgent), light nipple play, oral (m rec), some begging from bin because i literally cannot stop myself from writing it lmfao

♡ Notes: this was supposed to just be a binnie drabble because it's been too long since i last wrote for him and i miss him, but i got a lil carried away as usual :') this is valentine's day fic in spirit only, there's really nothing thematically that makes it suit vday lol i truly just wanted to write something fluffy for bin even if it was small and plotless <3

♡ Disclaimer: please read responsibly, and remember that this work is fiction and meant strictly for imaginative fun. the idols used in fics are more accurately faceclaims and personality outlines for imaginary characters, and should not be interpreted as factual representations of existing people.

It starts with a giggle; the bashful kind Changbin always fails to suppress when you start kissing him stupid. They’re simple, repeated little pecks, and you can feel him trying not to smile too hard, lest you end up kissing his teeth instead of his lips.

His lips are as sticky as they are plump and soft, the result of a combination of indulging in strawberries & cream hard candies, and his healing mint chapstick. The taste is pleasant, and your own lips tingle from the healing mint transferring to you, as well as growing sufficiently sticky from having a candy of your own before kissing him.

He doesn't know what brought the kiss attack on, but there's nothing he loves more than being doted on and feeling your affection, so he happily (and greedily) takes all the kisses you offer him.

Still, Changbin's curious– so when there's a small lapse in the kisses due to your need to take a breath, he asks; "Why are you attacking me, baby?"

The question is spoken with evident joy, the hints of his previous giggles still lingering in his voice. And there's no "reason" per se– all he'd done was sit there on the couch with you, in his cute cable-knit sweater with his tamed (but still ever so fluffy) hair and wire-frame glasses, eating candy.

It wasn't so much a particular action he took, or a special instance out of the norm that caused you to bombard him with love. There was no grand gesture of affection, no pre-planned romantic intent, no shameless display of affection. Changbin loves to do those things, certainly, but this wasn't that kind of moment.

You were simply in your shared apartment, cuddling under your couch's designated throw blanket as you watched a movie together post-dinner, snow falling peacefully on the cityscape outside your windows. When you were shopping for ingredients to make dinner tonight, he couldn't resist grabbing a bag of candy when he noticed it on sale– because who doesn't love a treat when it's discounted?

And it was all made better by knowing they were a favorite of yours too– so when he tore open the bag, full to the brim of small, individually wrapped candies, he took one for himself before eagerly tilting the bag in your direction to take one. Changbin watched you take it with a sweet smile, turning back to the tv before unwrapping another candy to pop into his mouth; and the simple domesticity of his affection was reason enough.

He turned to you when you called his name, a question lingering on his lips as he felt you inch closer; did you want another candy? Did he accidentally leave the bag too far out of your reach? But within seconds, you were surprising him with a kiss.

It took him off guard, you could easily tell by the squeak he let out, but the corners of his mouth curling into a smile before he returned the kiss told you he was more than happy with it.

"Because I love you," you answer his question earnestly; it was all you thought as you pulled yourself closer to him, the only words lingering in your mind as you hastily pressed your lips to his.

A tiny blush crawls over Changbin's features as he smiles, as full and radiant as it ever is when you dote on him. His eyes squint beneath his glasses, his adorably round nose scrunching, and you can't help but smile too; his joy is infectious, after all.

And perhaps in some ways it's silly, but it's always the small actions he takes that remind you of how in love you are with him. It's always moments like now, when you're relaxing together, at peace and comfortable in his presence in a way you are with no other, that your heart swells with love for your boyfriend the most.

Slow moments, where you can really appreciate the man beside you, when the full weight of your affection for him can settle over you like a warm, fuzzy blanket. Moments where any problem you have melts away, fading to the background because Changbin is with you, and that's all you need to be okay. 

And for Changbin, it doesn’t matter if it’s the 1st, 100th, or 1000th time you’re kissing him– it always sparks something in him. He isn’t greedy about many things, but when it comes to you– that’s a different story entirely; he’ll hold you tight and endlessly drink in all you're willing to give him. 

Your lips taste similar to his– a more muted, subtle version of strawberries, cream, and mint; he indulges in it, his hands finding their way to you and leaving the bag of candies forgotten to the side. He hums pleasantly when you crawl your way onto his lap, obediently parting his lips when he feels your tongue slide against them.

It doesn’t take long for him to start chubbing up beneath his cream-colored pants– and how could he not? You’re in his lap, kissing him deep and slow, with your fingers in his hair. They glide easily through his soft, straightened hair, and while you can’t help but miss his natural curls, you do appreciate your fingers not tangling in them and pulling. 

Changbin would like it, you know– he’s strong enough to manhandle you without breaking a sweat, can flip you and hold you into any position and make you take it with ease; but in the same breath, he’s pliable, ready and eager to be molded into whatever you need him to be. He loves his body, and his strength, and the squeals he can draw out of you by using it– but what he loves even more is being good to you. 

But this moment isn’t about that– you aren’t looking to take control, nor to make your lover meek and pliant; it’s about showing him the depth of your love for him in the only way you can when words fail you. What else can you do when saying “I love you” doesn’t feel like enough? When the heat that’s building in your chest will burst if you don’t kiss him and kiss him and kiss him?

He isn’t hard enough for his erection to quite be “obvious” in his loose pants yet, but you’ve been with Changbin long enough to see when he’s getting worked up. His breaths come out harsher, and the pink tint to his cheeks spreading to his ears paired with the quickened beating of his heart you can feel just beneath your fingertips tell you all you need to know.

He has a dazed, lovesick look in his eyes when you pull away from him, paired with a goofy, beaming smile. “I’m so lucky,” he breathes as he hugs you, the squeeze so tight it almost feels like it could crush you– but Changbin knows the limit. “I’m crazy about you– you know that right? I love you so much.” 

You’re effectively trapped in his arms, but that’s no problem for you– you return his hug, giggling as he returns your affections. Your soft laugh delights him, and he shows it by peppering your cheeks in chaste kisses before moving on to your neck. 

“Bin, that tickles,” you whine between your laughter, his hands squeezing you as you squirm in his grasp. He laughs too, lifting his head to meet your eyes with the downturned smirk that tells you he’s amused.

He thinks to tease you; playfully peck you over and over whilst saying you attacked him first, so it’s only fair– but it melts away when you tenderly reach to his face, cupping it in your hands. Your thumbs resting on his full cheeks, you kiss him again, soft and sweet. It effectively turns him to putty, a content sound rising from his throat as his squeeze on you loosens. 

You take the opportunity to slip a hand into his sweater, caressing his plush stomach for just a moment before bringing it to his chest. You love the way he feels– bulking muscles under soft skin, pecs strong and well-defined but so easy to squeeze in your palms. He shivers under your diligent touch, your fingers always so soft and motions so purposeful.

He keens when you tweak his nipple just the way you know he likes, and he has to make a conscious effort to stop himself from unconsciously bucking his hips up. You can feel him, fully hard beneath you now and pressing into the fat of your ass.

On another day, you might tease him about it; coo over how sensitive he is, watch him squirm as his face burns deep red. But the way Changbin looks at you, so reverent and adoring with a haze of lust, never fails to fill your stomach with butterflies.

It's obvious with just a look that he's becoming needy; he’s expectant, wordlessly pleading, skin tingling with anticipation for what you’ll do next– and you’ve decided from the very start that you’ll give him anything he wants. 

“Ah–” his brain lags when you ask what he wants, if there's anything at all he'd like you to do, the air suddenly feeling heavy and thick around him. And it’s not because he’s shy, necessarily– it’s just that the loving gaze you hold for him while waiting for him to answer is making his mind feel fuzzy.

He swallows, and in the end his words are less than eloquent, but they're enough. “Your mouth– please?”

You smile at him sweetly, a shudder traveling the length of his spine when you dip your hand between your bodies to palm his cock over his pants. He sucks in a breath, shivering as you make quick work of freeing his erection from the fabric. The inside of his underwear is sticky-wet, the result of pre-cum steadily leaking from his sensitive tip.

His fists are clenched, breaths labored as he watches and waits for you to deliver on his request. You shift carefully off his lap, letting the blanket covering you both fall to the floor– along with the plastic bag of strawberries & cream candies that you entirely forgot were still there next to you. 

The clatter of them falling to the hardwood almost makes you jump, and you watch as some of the candies roll out of the bag, scattering in all directions. You stare for a moment, blink before you turn to Changbin and laugh. “I forgot,” is all you say, and he giggles with you, leaning over the couch to assess the damage. 

“We can clean it later,” he assures, grabbing your hand so you focus on him instead of on the mess. If there’s one saving grace, it’s that the candies are all individually wrapped– and you’re certain that getting your boyfriend's dick in your mouth is of much higher priority than picking up some spilled, but otherwise perfectly fine, candy. 

“Wait,” Changbin says after you sink to your knees, grabbing a cushion to place under them, “don’t want you to get hurt.” You smile and thank him warmly, getting yourself comfortable on the cushion– and he’s quick to reach to the floor where the blanket fell, wrapping it around your shoulders snuggly. 

“Changbin,” you giggle as he secures the blanket around you.

“What? I don’t want you to get cold either,” he says, and it’s so endearing you can think of nothing else to do but kiss him, just as before.

“What about you?” you ask, and he simply smiles while assuring you he’ll be perfectly fine. And you’re sure it’s true enough; Changbin tends to run hot, after all. Still, you get as much of his legs in the blanket as you can as you inch closer and settle in between his muscular thighs. 

You take his cock into your hand once more, the length short but impossibly thick in your comparably small fingers. The sight of it, leaking and throbbing as it silently pleads for stimulation, is always mouth-watering to you, and the change in your eyes is enough to make him squirm in his seat. 

You take your time planting slow, lingering kisses to his steadily leaking tip, coat your lips in his arousal and trail it down his length before slowly licking back up. You repeat– enough times to have him biting his lip and tensing his thighs, desperate pleas for something more just a breath away from being uttered. 

It’s a little cruel to tease him this way considering you said you’d give him anything he wants, but how could you resist? Still, a promise is a promise; so just before you think the thread keeping his restraint together is about to snap, and he’s ready to string together a babble of begs and pleads, you engulf his tip in your mouth. 

The relief is instant– a loud, shuddering whine leaving his lips as you lower your head, sliding the entirety of his length into your mouth. It’s always a stretch, even just for your mouth, but you’ve grown used to ignoring the ache in your jaw. He’s heavy on your tongue, but you’ve always liked that– and the moans you’re met with as you bob your head make any tenderness you’ll feel later entirely worth it. 

You can feel him tremble, the sound of your saliva pooling and dripping down his cock enough to make his head spin. Needing something to hold and ground himself, he desperately searches for one of your hands; you offer one to him quickly, let him squeeze as much as he needs once your fingers are intertwined. 

Your other hand caresses and squeezes over the meat of Changbin’s inner thigh, and his head falls back against the couch cushion, eyes closing as he releases another high pitched whine. Suddenly he feels much too hot, sweat threatening to drip from where it builds on his brow. You swirl your tongue around his cock to the best of your ability as you take it to the base, and it nearly makes him sob.

“S-So close, please–” he manages to choke out through a whimper, shivering when you hum and quicken your efforts. It’s utterly dizzying– how good your mouth feels, the salacious sounds that pour from it, the heady cry of his desperate, pleasured voice; overwhelming and baffling, almost, how a man as big and strong as him can be a weak puddle in your hands.

“Gonna cum– ‘m cumming, c-cumming for you,” he manages to stutter out just moments before his thighs and stomach clench and his eyes roll back. His back arches off the cushion as he writhes, his cum spilling down your throat, thick and pleasantly salty. The overstimulation as you continue to lick over his now softening length makes him gasp and squirm until you inevitably release his cock from your mouth with a pop, satisfied with your efforts cleaning him up.

Changbin is utterly breathless, but still quick to help you back to the couch when you move to rise; your knees ache from being stuck in the same position for so long, but it’s certainly not as bad as it would’ve been if he hadn’t offered you the cushion to rest them on. He smiles at you as you wipe the accumulated sweat from his brow, a sweet thing full of awe and adoration. 

“I love you,” he reminds you with a sappy, downturned smile and you giggle before offering him another kiss. “And,” he quickly adds, effortlessly scooping you up into his arms now that his strength has returned and his body no longer feels like jello, “we’re not done yet.” 

“Binnie!” you can’t help but squeal, clinging to him tightly as he rises from the couch with you in his arms, as if you're light as a feather. He kicks the bag of fallen candy as he walks, and you giggle as you hear more pieces rattle and roll around on the floor and out of his path; you almost want to playfully scold him for worsening the mess. 

“We can clean it later,” he repeats, as he enters your shared bedroom. He carefully lays you down on the bed, crawls over you and kisses you with all the passion and ardor he can muster. His hand traveling slowly, purposefully down your body, until it finds its home between your thighs.

There’s a whispered promise then; that you’re not leaving the bed until he makes you cum again and again.

[that-hazbin]

Your angel AU now has me by the THROAT.

I’m assuming that Alastor goes to Hell basically immediately after Emily tells him that Lucifer Fell and hopes that Lucifer didn’t just forget about him (even if everyone else had).

That reunion will be messy, and I think that in a way Lucifer didn’t forget about Alastor—I am now convinced that the apple on Lucifer’s hat is the one he meant to give Alastor and no one can convince me otherwise—but thoughts of him kind of fell to the wayside as other things took priority. I imagine Lucifer will be a mix of happiness to see Alastor, and horrified guilt because he was left in that garden for 10,000 years alone and it’s his fault. You said this whole idea was based on Spinel, so I’d think Alastor is a mix of terrible sadness and frothing fury, oscillating between the two in turns.

You have set up a situation that will have severe emotional repercussions that are delicious to contemplate; thank you for sharing your ideas and writing with us, and I respectfully request more.

I shortened a lot of this AU because I wanted people to make their own thoughts on it, but I've got a lot of personal thoughts for it that makes it fun. One of them is that in this AU, Alastor doesn't have wings. He was made for Lucifer as basically his doll, and so he wasn't allowed flight. If he needed to go anywhere, he needed Lucifer to fly him around. So leaving Heaven to get to Hell would, in fact, be really difficult. He can't just fly down the way Adam and his exorcists can.

Granted, since Lucifer fell, maybe Alastor thinks "alright I'll do that too" and just bodily throws himself over the edge. That would be a NASTY reunion for Lucifer. Sees some meteor falling from Heaven, flies up to stop it, only to realize "Hey wait is that a person— IS THAT ALASTOR?!"

Meanwhile Emily, who witnessed this poor WINGLESS guy JUMP FOR HELL, is frantically trying to call up Charlie and give her like. A warning. Perhaps an explanation.

Lucifer and Alastor would have the most messed up reunion in this case. Alastor is still operating on the idea that his whole existence is to please Lucifer in some way, specifically to make him happy, to entertain him. In Lucifer's mind, this means that Alastor literally condemned himself to the most painful action in existence because of HIM. He never managed to give Alastor the fruit of knowledge like he planned, and it resulted in this.

Unbeknownst to Lucifer, Alastor isn't completely bereft of free will. Otherwise, he wouldn't be... feeling the emotions that he's feeling. He's hurt, saddened, and filled with so much anger. And Alastor is not going to direct that anger at Lucifer, of course not, it's not his fault that Alastor waited for ten-thousand years for no reason. (Except, it kind of is, but NO IT ISN'T.)

Things will hit a boiling point, though, when Lucifer suggests getting Alastor back into Heaven. Because obviously Alastor doesn't deserve to be in Hell, it sucks here, and Alastor deserves better— except that's not what Alastor hears. What Alastor hears is that despite waiting several millennia for this moment, Lucifer doesn't actually want him around and is planning on getting rid of him. Wiping his hands of him. Why not, right? Every other angel in Heaven has forgotten about his very existence, and here's Lucifer, the one he was made for, trying to do the same!

Alastor would just. Explode. He's confused and so, so furious. What exactly did he do wrong this time? Why isn't his friend happy to see him, why doesn't he want Alastor to stay? Is he seriously going to abandon Alastor AGAIN?! TEN THOUSAND YEARS! He can't do it again, he can't.

It would take a while before Alastor calms down.

[thydungeongal]

Social interaction mechanics are my gleeblor. I've really mostly played D&D and D&D-likes (and a single one-shot in Star Trek Adventures where we mostly repaired stuff), so the only idea of social mechanics I really have is reaction rolls.

(don't get me started on 3e-style skill checks. those are worse than nothing.)

Anyway I do kind of want to understand this concept. Would you mind providing an example or two? Assume I have never played a PBTA game.

Absolutely! I'm going to use Apocalypse World as my example here!

Apocalypse World only has one social interaction mechanic: the "Seduce or Manipulate Someone" move. Moves are PbtA parlance and even though a lot of ink can be spilled on the subject at the end of the day what a move is is a specific situation in the game where the game steps in and says "I have input on this." Apocalypse World especially really emphasizes the fact that if moves are not being triggered then the game basically progresses as free play, but once a move is triggered it happens and its specific mechanics kick in.

It's a fancy way of saying "here's a social mechanic and here's what sorts of situations you'll use it in."

This is the trigger for Seduce or Manipulate Someone:

When you try to seduce, manipulate, bluff, fast-talk, or lie to someone, tell them what you want them to do, give them a reason, and roll+hot.

Roll+hot here means rolling 2d6 and adding the character's Hot stat (usually between -1 and +2) with static thresholds: a result of 10+ means a full success, 7-9 means partial success, and 6 or lower means failure (and there are specific principles about what happens on 6- which I won't get into here).

Interestingly, this is where the move actually splits into two, giving different outcomes depending on whether it's being used on an NPC or a PC:

For NPCs: on a 10+, they go along with you, unless or until some fact or action betrays the reason you gave them. On a 7-9, they'll go along with you, but they need some concrete assurance, corroboration, or evidence first. For PCs: on a 10+, both. On a 7-9, choose 1:

• If they go along with you, they mark experience.

• If they refuse, erase one of their stat highlights for the remainder of the session.

What they do then is up to them.

On a miss, for either NPCs or PCs, be prepared for the worst.

At the end of the day it isn't that different in principle from a modern D&D style "make a Charisma (Persuasion) check" but there are two things that stand out here: first, even for NPCs, a clearly stated part of the action is needing to present the target with a reason for going along with you. Whether the target "complies" or not is entirely rules-mediated, but the character still needs to present some reason for the NPC to go along.

Secondly, the same mechanic can be used to manipulate other PCs, but because player characters are controlled by other players they can't be simply mind-controlled: instead, manipulation is handled via carrot (reward of XP for complying) and stick (loss of a highlighted stat, one of the potential sources of XP, for refusing), but at the end of the day the character is not robbed of choice.

Monsterhearts uses a similar system BUT it specifically turns seduction into its own move which is used to gain Strings (an abstract social currency) over other characters. Strings are always specific to a character and spending a String on someone else comes with a multitude of benefits, but one of the most important ones is that spending a String on a player character in Monsterhearts allows the character to do the "If you go along, experience, if you don't, punishment" part of the move without needing to roll.

But yeah, the main takeaway here is that it takes in an input of both describing what the character is doing and saying and what they are offering, a roll (to take some of the arbitration out of player hands), and then outputs a result that is specific but imprecise. It is, at the end of the day, a game played through the medium of language, so like the result of the action is still expressed in those terms. Instead of like. They take 5 points of rhetorical damage to their argument.

Now, having said that, there absolutely are games out there that do model social mechanics in a "deal rhetorical damage to the enemy's argument" type of way, but they differ from the typical "numbers game" model that I presented in that they usually require more specific inputs from players than simply pointing their character's charisma at a target and rolling. Burning Wheel's Duel of Wits is a great example of this, and it's basically almost akin to old-school D&D psionic combat in how its various arguments and defences bounce off each other. But it's absolutely not the norm when it comes to social interaction mechanics in games.

[urinarythreatinfection]

As a Shanks fan I need you to stop tagging your posts and making us look bad. The more you write the more clear it is this is a bad faith reading, bashing while not understanding the writing. Your only precedent on examining these characters is based on stacking morality points on how nice and good they are, rather than their roles in the plot and their thematic relevance as narrative foils, their longstanding history and familiarity, the continued relevance of their intertwined journeys and emotional energy in the story. You seem set on seeing them as abusive when that’s clearly not what Oda means, their character dynamics play a role in telling the story and I assure you it’s not a message of abuse. But of course, there are fans who think Nami hitting the Strawhats is abusive so I shouldn’t be surprised. You can’t even seem to reflect on your own self and realize your own views are infinitely more toxic.

So Buggy left when they were both 15 and traumatized and somehow thats the most unacceptable thing. Yeah, whatever, hate them for petty things, but don’t act like you have some superior understanding when it’s just the most typically shallow reading. Your dislike is your own, but policing others because you lack the ability to comprehend is not okay.

Is this apologizing business really some big thing to cry over? Shanks wanted Buggy to come with him, Buggy turned him down. They were ex-comrades and pirates, obviously Buggy was free to leave and start his own pirate crew, Shanks even said they both should. Many of Buggy’s complaints are just petty things Shanks probably doesn’t even care that much about. But to Buggy it does matter so he cares more about getting closure from that time. Shanks doesn’t even care about the fruit or the map, he’s just glad to see Buggy again. They might fight but ultimately Shanks cares more about Buggy than any petty grudge and is more likely to forgive and apologize for little things, even just jokingly or to appease him, because it’s not a big deal for him to do it. To Shanks, friends are what’s important, so words and actions needed for his friend are a small thing. Villainizing Buggy and resenting his rejection is probably the last thing Shanks would want in that situation. He’s not gonna be a spiteful victim because someone got mad and left of their own free will. He’d rather be a loser who apologizes and begs for his friend.

The whole issue with ‘apologizing’…it’s not a big deal. A lot of times it seems to be treated as a joke. The treasure map is supposed to be seen as a stupid reason not worth getting up in arms about. Buggy being mad over the treasure map is treated as a joke and an excuse as a way to cover up that he really cares about Shanks. But this whole thing just seems like you’re mad when Shanks simps for Buggy and Buggy acts like he typically would. How is it hard to believe that Buggy is important to Shanks and Shanks would express that to him? Are you really so caught up on just hating on Buggy’s personality and him being a regular pirate you can’t stand him being treated like someone important? He’s one of the Four Emperors going after the One Piece and you don’t think his desires and feelings have some significance?

Buggy may have left, but that was all within his rights to do so, even the other Roger Pirates left these kids. For the current Buggy to apologize he’d probably struggle to get over his feelings, but to Shanks why get hung up over petty grievances if it’s for a friend? That’s just their personalities. Sure, Buggy could apologize, but it’s just not like him, and it’s not even that necessary anyways. Obviously knowing Buggy’s character he gets overdramatic and too emotionally invested he can’t let things go, while Shanks will let go of things because he cares. Luffy too learns to forgive and let things go, it’s one of the things he learned from Shanks. We get hit on the head so many times by this kind of message. When Luffy happily bows down and passes up on the opportunity to leave Amazon Lily just so he can save a few people he just met…there’s nothing wrong with giving in and bowing down when it’s not worth it otherwise.

Shanks couldn’t communicate his real reasons and wanted Buggy to join him but got rejected, so as the Captain who was rejected by Buggy who was willing to be part of his crew, it seems like Shanks was the one who lost out. Of course Shanks longs for his friend and would care for him. Luffy would also chase someone if it was his friend. This isn’t an abuser and victim relationship, it doesn’t matter who was wrong because there was never any actual communication. We don’t even know Shanks’ perspective and his reasons, only Buggy’s, so we just see they had their differences and Buggy felt disappointed. They wanted to prioritize different things because that’s how they’ve always been as pirates, not because one is an abuser, they are grown men who used to argue a lot.

If Shanks wanted to truly protect Luffy he would’ve done something like actually reach out to him and communicate to him. Shanks knew the risks when he encouraged Luffy to be a pirate and return his hat. He knew Luffy would be in danger especially with his fruit. That’s how it is in the pirate world, you can’t make it if you don’t put your life on the line and fight others. Luffy had to survive and overcome that if he wanted to get anywhere near the New World, Shanks knew that. He knew people would try to kill Luffy, that’s how the pirate world is, but Luffy would never become strong if he didn’t experience that. Anyways, Buggy is obviously supposed to be a tame joke villain. He didn’t even kill the villagers in Orange Town, the villagers evacuated to a shelter beforehand and he just raids the houses and blows them up.

I think you have this image of Shanks as this delicate abuse victim and Saint-like Christ figure (ironic) when he’s just a pirate who knows he and others have had to make sacrifices. All I can say is, you really think that? Okay, can’t help you there. 

You just seem to really hate Buggy and refuse to accept any positive take on Buggy. You even hate him for harmless things he did as a literal child. You want Buggy to be portrayed as trash and dirt compared to Shanks, but in a ship where fans love both characters and Shanks cherishes Buggy that’s obviously not going to happen. It’s clear that you’re biased so you can’t reasonably have a good take on this, all you do is victimize Shanks. How hypocritical that you complain about others having no insight when you’re way worse.

There’s so much stuff about Shanks fandom to criticize but the fact that you fixate on Shanks caring about Buggy as the worst thing, that’s just mindless hate you shouldn’t be tagging. The best understanding of Shanks I‘ve seen was from shuggy fans, I’m gonna trust them from now on.

Also are you seriously trying to compare your petty hate of a fictional character to speaking out about the literal atrocities done by colonizers of America? Please think before you speak.

Okay im tired of explaining this just as is so im just gonna take bullet points and say my piece and thats it because ive made two posts now explaining as best as I can and still somehow its being misunderstood as me being some sort of toxic Shanks fan thats making them look bad for some reason. This is literally me analyzing him and showing the problems of Shuggy people don't want to accept.

"The more you write the more clear it is this is a bad faith reading, bashing while not understanding the writing." Im not saying this in bad faith. That is why i tagged it as Shuggy. Not for some sort of ragebait or to spew hate i just really want the dynamic of angst fix-it stuff to change or atleast be more popular. And again, I understand the writing perfectly well. I'm rereading the manga and literally have not just been saying whats on the top of my head im looking into it.

"Your only precedent on examining these characters is based on stacking morality points on how nice and good they are, rather than their roles in the plot and their thematic relevance as narrative foils, their longstanding history and familiarity, the continued relevance of their intertwined journeys and emotional energy in the story." If this is how even if Buggy is bad it means they can still be together because they work well i literally agree its the dynamic. I cannot stress this enough i don't know how this isn't going through.

"You seem set on seeing them as abusive when that’s clearly not what Oda means, their character dynamics play a role in telling the story and I assure you it’s not a message of abuse." Oda has included abuse, suicide, addictions in his story and you really think he wouldnt sprinkle in the fact that Buggy was an abusive friend. Im not even saying he 100% was i said at worst. An abusive friendship is different than one thats a relationship too, and again i said at worst.

"But of course, there are fans who think Nami hitting the Strawhats is abusive so I shouldn’t be surprised." What she does was objectively bad, and she's toned it down a LOT post timeskip. Part of her character development that now you can safely say when she hits they either kinda deserve it or she doesn't really go rough with it.

"So Buggy left when they were both 15 and traumatized and somehow thats the most unacceptable thing. Yeah, whatever, hate them for petty things, but don’t act like you have some superior understanding when it’s just the most typically shallow reading. Your dislike is your own, but policing others because you lack the ability to comprehend is not okay." I never said it was the most unacceptable thing, i meant it was the most shitty thing he could do. You mentioned somewhere elsr they were 15, which is true, but as time goes by and Buggy doesnt change that excuse is out the window.

"Is this apologizing business really some big thing to cry over?" Its a major thing, and is something thats used for Shanks to Buggy that is seen as a major thing i dont know why im being posed as overly dramatic when i say it would be way better if it were buggy apologizing to Shanks.

"Shanks wanted Buggy to come with him, Buggy turned him down. They were ex-comrades and pirates, obviously Buggy was free to leave and start his own pirate crew, Shanks even said they both should." You're acting like Buggy turned Shanks down civily and it was not a decision of emotion.

"They might fight but ultimately Shanks cares more about Buggy than any petty grudge and is more likely to forgive and apologize for little things, even just jokingly or to appease him, because it’s not a big deal for him to do it. To Shanks, friends are what’s important, so words and actions needed for his friend are a small thing. Villainizing Buggy and resenting his rejection is probably the last thing Shanks would want in that situation. He’s not gonna be a spiteful victim because someone got mad and left of their own free will. He’d rather be a loser who apologizes and begs for his friend." And this is the problem! this! Just because Buggy cares more than Shanks doesn't mean that Shanks doesn't deserve to be atleast understood. Shanks would rather act like a loser to get Buggy than value himself is literally a toxic behavior for relationships. I beg of you to think of this in real life. Imagine Shanks as some chick and Buggy as the boyfriend and its very very clear that you just brushing it off as "oh well Shanks can handle it" sucks! It sucks! I've seen relationships like that and they suck! Its okay for comedy the same reason Nami's hitting is or Brook's panty loving is but when you're writing or drawing it seriously you can't just paint it as something okay when the reason why Shanks would put himself down for Buggy is because Shanks is mentally unwell! He deserves a Buggy that would actually treat him preciously instead of the now normalized "oh you're trash but ill forgive you I guess" Its not even a point of "oh well Shanks wouldn't mind!" You're right! But YOU should! Because you are the outsider looking in, the one that can look through an objectjve lens where you arent a dependent man that needs any sort of companion.

"He didn’t even kill the villagers in Orange Town, the villagers evacuated to a shelter beforehand and he just raids the houses and blows them up." This literally doesn't matter since Buggy has talked about killing before and I don't even think is true. There was a shelter because he just likely didn't kill all of them, but "just" some. And doing that is pretty bad in of itself.

"Buggy being mad over the treasure map is treated as a joke and an excuse as a way to cover up that he really cares about Shanks." Here with the "oh but Buggy's just a tsundere" If i never do anything for you ever because you made me drop my icecream 10 years ago does me being a tsundere just make it okay. This isn't even fully true. It's not a cover-up Buggy isn't just some little cute tsundere he holds malice. He IS mad about that still its not a cover up because oh well he still cares it can be both, and its mostly just actual anger. Because why else would he bring it up even when he doesn't have to cover up affection.

"Luffy too learns to forgive and let things go, it’s one of the things he learned from Shanks. We get hit on the head so many times by this kind of message" Letting go and liking the person is two seperate things. You're acting like Luffy is just some angel when he has also been shown again to really not like Buggy and some people. In impel down he doesn't want to rescue Buggy but ends up doing so so he can get to Ace "which buggy tries to betray" and in basically every instance where Buggy is brought up around Luffy Luffy has literally only bad things to say about Buggy so idk why you're acting like Luffy is some saint that would forgive anything. Im rereading impel down and he also didn't want to forgive Crocodile, he just needed the help, still doesn't like Crocodile too. Luffy shows dislike, its just not super loud, he shows it through not helping. He even only helped Hachi during pre ts only when Nami said it was okay. Shanks doesn't forgive everything either. The lesson Shanks taught Luffy wasn't "forgjve everyone". Thats what Luffy THOUGHT it was when he was a little kid. But thr actual lesson was just to be more mature, to be careful. To not fight at every chance because you could be endangering others. Difference between forgiving someone and just letting it not bother you so that you can use them, as Luffy has showed.

"Buggy may have left, but that was all within his rights to do so, even the other Roger Pirates left these kids." Rayleigh leaving Shanks was not a good thing for Rayleigh to do, especially since Rayleigh also knows whats going on, but he just left a 15 year old to just deal with it because he wanted to toughen the kid up or something idk, theres a lot of "just suck it up buttercup" in One Piece because thats what Oda thinks is cool and nice and manly, he isn't perfect. Also Buggy did have the right to leave, the problem is that he didn't leave because he wanted to start his own crew or find the one piece himself it was just because of the conflict between him and Shanks. It was not a clear decision.

"If Shanks wanted to truly protect Luffy he would’ve done something like actually reach out to him and communicate to him. Shanks knew the risks when he encouraged Luffy to be a pirate and return his hat. He knew Luffy would be in danger especially with his fruit. That’s how it is in the pirate world, you can’t make it if you don’t put your life on the line and fight others." I agree with this and I also feel it was the right thing to do unfortunately, s Luffy has a huge thing he needs to do even if he isn't aware of what he's doing. However, this is what Shanks chose, Buggy didn't go for Luffy because he wanted to toughen Luffy up he went for Luffy because he hates Luffy and his strawhat that reminds him of Shanks and the fact that he's also developing the same complex with Luffy that he was with Shanks, though not as strong since they aren't really together often.

"But this whole thing just seems like you’re mad when Shanks simps for Buggy and Buggy acts like he typically would. How is it hard to believe that Buggy is important to Shanks and Shanks would express that to him? Are you really so caught up on just hating on Buggy’s personality and him being a regular pirate you can’t stand him being treated like someone important? He’s one of the Four Emperors going after the One Piece and you don’t think his desires and feelings have some significance?" I don't know how you came to the conclusion this is what I think. Im not against Shanks simping for Buggy, I believe Shanks would be a simp in any relationship, this is more about how Buggy reacts in turn. Would be fine if it was just some shyness but its not. Buggy's harmful. I really don't know where i said I don't think Buggy is important. I just hate him as a person. As a character hes funny and a good character objectively and I think that he matters in the story I just don't like him as him. I'm not some person that wishes he would stay unimportant, i never said that. This is not about the story of One Piece this is about Shuggy.

"Shanks couldn’t communicate his real reasons and wanted Buggy to join him but got rejected, so as the Captain who was rejected by Buggy who was willing to be part of his crew, it seems like Shanks was the one who lost out. Of course Shanks longs for his friend and would care for him. Luffy would also chase someone if it was his friend." Would missing out on being a crewmember of a famous crew not be way more of a loss than not getting an already disloyal person as a subordinate. Shanks was important to Buggy too, I don't know why you're acting like Buggy is so precious in comparison to Shanks that its only Shanks that could miss out. Also, my friend, did you miss the ENTIRE ARC WHERE LUFFY LET GO OF A FRIEND BECAUSE HE WAS DISLOYAL!??? Did that just disappear in your mind?? The difference between Buggy and Usopp is that Usopp actually manned up and apologized in order to get on the crew. The entire point of the last scene was that if Usopp did not apologize they were actually going to leave him! Luffy is different from Shanks because Shanks would depend on someone toxic, atleast in the Shuggy that's normalized, while its canon that if a friend was truly toxic and a crewmember was bad that Luffy would leave. Cmon man! Why are you telling me I don't understand the story like I'm stupid when you just completely glossed over water 7 😭

"I think you have this image of Shanks as this delicate abuse victim and Saint-like Christ figure (ironic) when he’s just a pirate who knows he and others have had to make sacrifices. All I can say is, you really think that? Okay, can’t help you there." Its funny how you say ironic when it is ironic. Thats the point. That Shanks is a sacrifice. That is what Oda is alluding to with Shanks if not consiously than unconsious. I beg of you to think about it. A person that has sacrificed everything, their dreams, their friendship, their sanity, and even their limb, for a God of Freedom to help free the world. That is what Shanks is, a sacrifice for the greater good. Just like how they were trying to portray Robin's death/servitude in enies lobby as a sacrifice for the greater good. It is not "ironic" it is the point. It is not the first time Oda has pitted someone as a sacrifice for the greater good.

"You even hate him for harmless things he did as a literal child." Ah yes the harmless actions like creating an entire fake devil fruit to eat so that he can pocket the actual one and sell it for money to use to kickstart his own crew and find treasure on a map that he kept from the same crew that raised him with care and freedom. He didn't just do that on a whim, he planned that shit. It was only stopped by Shanks interruption. If not he would've straight up left the crew that raised him and done what he wanted. Im not saying him being a child doesn't constitute some slack but theres only so much slack you can give when it was so very clearly thought out on his end to betray.

"You want Buggy to be portrayed as trash and dirt compared to Shanks, but in a ship where fans love both characters and Shanks cherishes Buggy that’s obviously not going to happen. It’s clear that you’re biased so you can’t reasonably have a good take on this, all you do is victimize Shanks. How hypocritical that you complain about others having no insight when you’re way worse." ????? You can love both characters of a ship and admit that theyre bad. Crocodile shippers do it all the time. So do people who like all sorts of other villians. Kaido, Crocodile, Akainu, a lot. It really feels like Buggy is the only villian that people ship and use while pretending like he's not been truly horrible. Zosan shippers are more aware of the toxicity that could be between them, and use that as a story point and not something to just brush aside or even romantisize without some sort of angst thing where they know its toxic. And their dynamic isn't nearly as toxic as the normalized Shuggy one. It really feels like you have more bias than me since the plot points so far some of them have clear holes or are ignoring huge things. And again with the Shanks thinking, a toxic relationship can be toxic while the victim thinks everything is okay. A lot of bad relationships stay relationships because of that.

"There’s so much stuff about Shanks fandom to criticize but the fact that you fixate on Shanks caring about Buggy as the worst thing, that’s just mindless hate you shouldn’t be tagging. The best understanding of Shanks I‘ve seen was from shuggy fans, I’m gonna trust them from now on." No. The understanding of Shanks that YOU want is with Shuggy fans. Because when you're a Shuggy fan you get to just deny that anything is wrong with Shanks mentally and that he's just a handsome man that can swoon over his lover and not someone who has very clear faults and mental issues. You can just pretend like Shanks is completely clear of mind so you can use him as a little puzzle piece to fit into anything you want to add a "simp" factor to a ship. Because if you really wanted the "best" understanding of Shanks you'd accept the fact that he is not a completely alright person. He doesn't "brush off" things like they don't matter. They hurt. He just holds it in. With Uta he bit the bullet and left for her sake, but he held it in. When he lost his arm and Luffy despaired we never saw him do anything to show distress over his lost arm, because he held it in. The only time we ever notice that he does feel pain is when he's talking with whitebeard and confesses to the scar on his eye stinging, and surprise surprise, it wasn't to vent his emotions, it was just in attempt to save Ace. Not for himself. He was sad that he's missing an arm, because in the same scene he even says "the scar that hurts most/more is my eye" not "the one that hurts" showing that his arm does hurt. Because losing a dominant arm would hurt anyone. Especially when it lost him Mihawk, another relationship he sacrificed to save something or someone. Yet unlike Buggy Mihawk still is somewhat amicable to Shanks. Mature. Even if he isn't perfect either (ex: completely okay with dying by Zoro's hand and doesn't have any goals now that he achieved world's greatest swordsman. His only friend was Shanks who he left once he couldn't be a suitable rival, showing a dependence on what he knows as Shanks was likely the only one that he had in his life to teach him any sort of friendship).

"Also are you seriously trying to compare your petty hate of a fictional character to speaking out about the literal atrocities done by colonizers of America? Please think before you speak." What the hell did you want me to do. Clearly just saying what I mean isn't working, metaphors are what usually help people finally understand. Yet instead of seeing the metaphor i used you just focused on that it was a cruel one like the point of me using it wasn't to show the cruelness. What other metaphor did you want me to use. You need to learn that a metaphor =/= me saying its the same thing. You brought that up just to make me seem like im a mindless hater that brought up atrocities for nothing. Do you get mad when people who talk about history compare the way slaves were treated to the treatment of cattle too? Since using your logic whatever a metaphor is must mean that you think they're the same thing. A metaphor or comparison is a just a tool. Unless you're gonna send some thing calling me crazy because i used another comparison.

[creature-wizard]

People who say 'oh you just don't want to admit bad things are happening to kids' don't understand that we do think terrible things are happening, it's just that the majority of it isn't organized and bad things can randomly happen to people perpetrated by people who are not categorically evil masterminds but by a lot of different kinds of people who have no idea how much damage they're doing (this does not excuse their actions)

Anybody can do bad things. They can even think they're doing something right and moral even though they aren't.

Yeah, yeah exactly. I think many of us are extremely aware that there are a lot of terrible things happening to many vulnerable people, including a lot of children. And I think most of us are aware that a lot of abuse is in some sense organized (for example, the abuses that went on in NXIVM).

Like, the actual reasons people are critical of this Project Monarch stuff is because:

Alter programming (specifically the type described here, in case any dipshit wants to try and project something I'm not actually talking about here) has allegedly been practiced since at least the mid-20th century, and not a single piece of literature written by or for the programmers (such as programming manuals, programming session records, programming scripts, or lists of access codes) has ever turned up anywhere.

Millions of people would have to be in on it, and each one would have to be a hypercompetent mastermind to keep their activities this well-hidden for this long. Every programmer would have to be a hypercompetent mastermind to not kill, severely disable, and/or severely disfigure most of the people they're trying to program with the methods they supposedly use.

Millions of alleged cult members supposedly practice human sacrifice on a regular basis (sacrifices are allegedly mandated for several holidays, every pregnancy-capable cult member must allegedly sacrifice their firstborn, and numerous programming rituals allegedly require the death of babies or children), but literally no evidence (like dead bodies, high numbers of missing children, or vanished pregnancies) supports this.

The so-called "experts" constantly out themselves as credulous clucks by repeating information that can be definitively traced back to very specific and known conspiracy theorists (like, you don't go around claiming the Babylonian Brotherhood is a thing unless you're getting your information from the Christofascist conspiracy theorists who still take Alexander Hislop seriously) or is scientifically impossible (like claiming that switching alters can make a person's eyes change from blue to brown).

We know that trance states don't allow you to access perfectly preserved memories. You can come up with literally anything under a trance. Hell, the first person to "remember" SRA in a trance (Michelle Pazder) is herself proof of this, because investigations into Michelle's claims revealed that they couldn't have happened - like her yearbook photo showing her healthy and fine at the time when she was allegedly being tortured every which way by the cult.

We know that what might appear to be a spontaneous recollection of an old memory might not be what it seems, either. (Plenty of New Agers spontaneously "remembered" fragments of perceived past lives based on New Age pseudohistory.)

There is just no getting around the fact that literally everyone promoting this idea was influenced by Dr. Lawrence Pazder and very often Fritz Springmeier. Once you start tracing everybody's sources back and start doing the research, this fact is inescapable.

And, once again, not a single goddamn piece of literature written by or for the programmers has ever turned up in the 70+ years people have supposedly been practicing this.

Want more information on the origins of the Project Monarch alter programming conspiracy theory, and how we know it's a conspiracy theory? Click here.

[maldeldest]

This is such an awesome take, thank you so much for such a long and spot on answer.

I am not only New to the Avatar Universe, but also to analyzing so forgive me if some of my thoughts maybe "wrong" or far fetched

As you said Zuko showed signs of heroism in S1 and I think Zhao is a very good contrast to Zuko. According to IMDB notes he was created because Zuko was too "sympathetic" to be a real villain and I totally see why they include it. I would argue that he was the one that brought out the Real hero in Zuko, because saving good people is easy. Not by action-wise but by deciding to help them. But Zhao is a terrible Person by any means and Zuko had a lot of Reasons to see him go down. But he doesnt, he showed kindness and mercy not once but twice to a man who doesnt deserve it and who even tried to have him bombed up by pirates.

Now I would never downplay Ursa and Kyas actions or Yues sacrifice. After all what is more honorable than dying for your children/your people ? But the thing is Zuko did the exact same thing, even if his sacrifice was not death. The 41st Division were his people and as a prince it was his place to protect them. Even after Iroh warned him not to speak up, he did it anyway with confidence in his voice. And I fail to see how getting half off your face burned off, losing honor,home,throne everything, just as Zuko said "for talking out of turn" is any diffrent from dying for them. I would even argue it was a Fate worse than death for 13!!!!year old Zuko.

(I cant stress the fact that he was 13 at the time enough)

"A hero protects his friends, a true hero protects his enemies".

And thats what Zuko did. Not just with Zhao but also Aang when he choose not to go after him twice in Book 1. Sure, it was because he had more Important Things to do as I saving his Uncle and Crew but it Was still an act of bravery, choosing what is right over your lifegoal.

And of course in Book 2 when he saves a whole village only for them to turn against him. Of course it makes sense, but we as an audience know and already sympathize with Zuko at this point so it still hurts. Helping these people gained him nothing but hatred from them but he didnt care because it was the right thing to do.

All in all what is more heroic than a child (even if he neither looks or acts like it Zuko is still a child) sacrificing their future, physical wellbeing and comfort (as much comfort as you can get with Ozai as your Dad) for their people?

Whats more heroic than a child facing their abuser and telling them what they did Was cruel and wrong, knowing said abuser will kill him instantly (he tried)

And of Course jumping in front of lightning to protect someone else, even if it means having another scar from a Person of their own family.

And thats why to me Zuko is not just one of the heroes but THE hero.

I just came across a Top 10 most heroic Avatar characters and Zuko wasnt one of them. Their reason Was apparantly that "Zuko only turned good in S3 and couldnt be seen as a hero before". Idk that left a very bad Taste in my Mouth especially considering that Bumi made Nr7. What are your thoughts on this ?

Lol I read the article and I think the bad taste comes from the idea that being a hero means you have to have a spotless record? It's the problem I have with most Zuko discourse that usually comes from people trying to diminish his importance in the narrative. I mean, Kya, Ursa, and Yue also make the list but like, they are barely in the narrative and their roles are mostly to be innocent and idealized and then die or disappear.

Well, then, I vote the papaya Katara ate in the fortune teller episode. It gave its life for that girl even thought it was hated.

I don't get the logic of "someone who only appears briefly can be a hero, but Zuko wasn't a hero long enough." Yue appears in two episodes. Zuko may have started out as a villain, but he was fighting the baddies and demonstrating qualities of compassion and sacrifice by episode 3. I'd say what got him banished itself was an act of heroism and that Zuko was actually a hero long before he himself knew it, and even when he is free to be a true hero he spends most of the time denying that he is one.

Not to quote that edgelord line about heroes from The Dark Knight, but if a character gets labeled as a hero just because they didn't live long enough to have their actions scrutinized while another character can't be labeled as one because they survived the world trying to beat their heroism out of them and came out stronger then idk what a hero is.

Here's what google has to say about the definition of a hero:

"...especially excessively or unexpectedly so."

In fact, I'd argue that one of the reasons Zuko stands out as a hero in the story is because we don't expect it of him. But it's a far more realistic and relatable heroic ideal than the idea that people are good or evil from birth and the hero saves the world because destiny says so.

The best heroes are the ones who do it even though it's hard, even thought destiny tells them that heroism wasn't meant for them. The whole thing about heroic sacrifice is that it has to be a sacrifice, meaning that they have to choose it consciously. It's not a heroic sacrifice if a character just suffers or has things taken from them.

I'll also provide one of my favorite definitions of a hero, from Quest for Glory 2. Hold onto your seats, because I'm busting out a poem from a computer game from 1990.

And they ask "What is a hero?"

Though the answer's very clear.

He's the one who faces danger

When the darkness hovers near.

He will face the fiercest foe

When another needs his aid,

He will dare to defy death

Even though he is afraid.

He works not just for glory

And he does it not for gain,

but because he knows that others

will be spared a greater pain.

He won't always follow orders

For he dares to answer "why?"

And unless he likes the reason

He refuses to comply.

He will brave the battle boldly

Even though he may not win.

He will face his fate unflinching,

For he is a paladin.

And they ask, "What is a hero?"

Though the answer's evident.

He's the one who faces death

Knowing that his life's well spent.

[tapakah0]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I HAVE SO MANY THINGS TO SHOW AND TO DO

[forcebookish]

whumptober no.7: (alt) forgotten

[sukibenders]

Not people talking bad about my girl Helaena just to support Aemond. Like, she had a right to ask him if what he did was worth it because, even if Aegon is atrocious, Aemond is the reason that her son was killed in front of her, the reason that she had to choose which of her children dies, and is the reason why she has to live with that now. While other characters played a part in that, without Aemond killing Luke, Jaehaerys would probably still be there or wouldn't have died in such a cruel way. B&C are sent there to kill Aemond, and when they can't find him they follow through with their next order of "a son for a son". And while Aemond may be smarter and more strategic (and not a disgusting man like Aegon) as prince regent, he is still, as Alicent called out, volatile and brewing with unchecked anger. I wouldn't feel safe having him on the throne just as much as Aegon, but because he served face and is the lesser evil I'm supposed to be okay with it? No, Helaena can question this man as much as she likes, for the rest of her life given what she has to go through. (Also, she literally just asked him a valuable question that deeply needs to be considered, so why are people mad at her?)

[elancholia]

"alignment" is meaningless here, the real way to prevent it from harming anything is to put hard limits on how it can interact with the world

So just to be clear about this, I did not mention "alignment" above, and I don't want to give the impression that I am an OG LessWrong head who has read a lot of Eliezer Yudkowsky and wants to defend the Yud's specific timeline and chain of reasoning. I'm responding to a mistake I see in discourse on this topic — where people just seem to be fundamentally incapable of seeing an LLM (or similar) doing anything at all, which is understandable but shows a potentially fatal lack of imagination.

you seem to think that a computer program works like a soul that moves freely through electromechanical systems like some kind of a fluid. [...] the real way to prevent it from harming anything is to put hard limits on how it can interact with the world

Good luck! I think that, in the near future, people are going to put these systems in charge of all sorts of things and have them interact with the world in all sorts of ways. They are going to set about converting a lot of existing infrastructure — both literal infrastructure and things that are now undertaken by large organizations, laws, social norms, human-operated personal devices — into forms more legible and more tractable to those systems, just as, in the recent past, states went about flattening messy social and economic geographies into forms more conducive to state control and action. Or as farmers turn a mess of rocks and forests into terrain suitable for the combine harvester.

They are going to create an environment in which action by computer agents is fluid, as fluid as possible. They are going to put an API on everything that currently exists and many things that don't. This will reach into your personal and social life, your bank, your power grid, your government, the roads you drive on, the locks on your doors, the TV that you watch and the way you get your mail delivered.

In that world, you will be trying to put "hard limits" on things that are smarter and faster than anything in your current context, which are working in environments that were designed for them, environments as large and complex as those agents can handle and now used to a pace and fluidity of action far beyond you.

The world is going to be more and more legible and tractable to machines and less and less legible and tractable to you. It will be easy, fast, and extremely profitable, and, by the time you need to pull the plug, you won't know where to look for it.

People are reading way too much into this, lmao. It just demonstrates that they don’t really know how any of this works and are therefore allowing their fear and tendency to anthropomorphism to take over. This isn’t even that impressive! It’s just firing up the nukes because it’s predicted that’s what an agent in its situation would do. It doesn’t mean it “actually ha

[ninjagotohell]

I just read a whole wacky thread of people arguing which parent was bad Garmadon or Misako and I’m no longer scared of the Misako defenders

[soutsuji]

Do you even understand what Chiori was to Morisu

[jestiamy]

??? how in the world does anyone come out of jekyll and hyde with this

[avpd-queer]

I feel bad that my former best friend is in a toxic relationship and can’t see it, is throwing away their friends of over a decade for her, but I also can’t stop remembering how, when I shared with them that I had just learned I had been cheated on and gaslighted about it for 6 years, their response was concern about my abuser’s mental health. That conversation didn’t affect their relationship with him in the slightest, they didn’t try to be there for me or show up for me to him, and when I they learned that I was going to get back with that person just a few days later, expecting them to be like, “uh no I don’t think that’s a good idea” (like everyone else had done and like I expected from them, having told them “just don’t let any of your friends date him” when I shared that I was leaving him, thinking they could help me figure out where to sleep and how to adjust), they didn’t protest at all. I was glad to avoid the awkwardness of, “thank you for your concern but I don’t have other options and idk I guess I’m gullible but also I just really want to believe it’ll get better” but also hurt that they didn’t seem concerned for my well-being. Hoping that they just didn’t voice that part because I’m an adult and can make decisions and already know what advice I would give myself. I just had to cling to believing that, and thinking maybe they don’t understand what gaslighting is and that’s why they didn’t seem to care, even as they became less and less my friend and eventually dropped both of us for trying to set a boundary with them about their girlfriend. And the only way they offer for me to be there for them through their relationship is to stuff down all of my needs and feelings, go along with every whim of their girlfriend, and accept that we will never get time with them without her ever again. They kept pretending like everything was okay and they totally understood, when we were face-to-face, and then they’d go home and suddenly we’re horrible and need to apologize to her for…being her friend? Trying to get more time with our best friend? Being honest with our best friend when they ask why we haven’t been able to get closer to their girlfriend? We were trying to be adult and trust in the strength of our friendship, but they fully gave in to their girlfriend’s temper tantrum over her misinterpretation of messages she logged into their discord to read, and they have just fully thrown us away. Ghosted us for pride and haven’t communicated with us in any form since. We had some extra pizza from a canceled event at my partner’s work that I left on their doorstep and had my sister text about, and they responded that they were out of the country, visiting her family. Normally we have two weekly dnd sessions and 1-2 weekly hangout sessions - the first week of dnd was canceled and after that, they just never showed up. This month of nothing is one of the few months we had left before they were going to move to where her family lives in the US, like 10hr drive from here, being fully isolated with her, without a support system, away from the support system they haven’t been away from in like 8 years (when I was in New York - my partner was here during those 2 years, they were roommates).

I’m just so hurt. They meant so much to me, I planned on having them in my life for the rest of it. I knew in the last relationship they were in they let us fall to the side some but she broke up with them and they realized how absorbed they’d been and promised to not let it happen again. Before meeting the current girlfriend, who they immediately got absorbed into. I don’t know what the fuck to do.