#*cuts to circes island*

[charlottedabookworm]

odysseus!percy (still lacking in memories) when clarisse says theyre going for charybdis instead of scylla “awesome great can’t believe i’m saying this but for some reason i agree with clarisse and i hate that for me”

odysseus!percy ten minutes later when they scoot too close to scylla while dodging charybdis and scylla starts snatching the skeleton crew off of the deck “huh. huh. huh. they aren’t screaming and yet-“

[oddyseye]

Let’s talk about translations of the Odyssey for a second, because, honestly, I’m over here sobbing over how ridiculous some of these choices are.

Every time I pick up a new translation, I hope it’ll finally capture the true grit and messiness of Odysseus, but nope, every one of them polishes him up too much, turning him into either a tragic hero or a charming rogue. Where’s the Odysseus who lies as easily as he breathes, who manipulates his way through every encounter, and who leaves a trail of ruin wherever he goes? I want the man whose brilliance is as sharp as his selfishness, whose cleverness cuts both ways — not just a hero, but a survivor who’s as flawed as he is formidable.

Anyway, I’m gonna break down the biggest mistranslations that really make me want to pull my hair out and remind everyone how different the original Greek actually is. Prepare yourselves.

Let’s start with the absolute disaster that is Telemachus and Peisistratus’ bond. Homer used the word ὁμοφροσύνη to describe their relationship, a term that’s about fucking soulmates, alright? But what do these translators do? They water it down to “just good friends” or “nice companions.” It’s about a relationship where minds and hearts are aligned — telepathic level shit, not just a handshake between two dudes. Yet these translators just gloss over the whole thing, so you get this milquetoast version of their relationship when it’s actually so much more.

Homer says: "ὁμοφροσύνησιν ἐνὶ καρδίᾳ ἐνθα καὶ ἄλλων οὐδὲν ἐπέλθομεν" ("In like-mindedness of heart, where no other man could compare.") So, Telemachus sees Peisistratus as someone he’s totally aligned with, in a way that’s almost romantic in its depth. ὁμοφροσύνη is usually used for romantic couples most often.

Then, we’ve got Odysseus and Calypso, which — oh my god, don’t even get me started on this absolute trainwreck of a translation. The term ἀνάγκῃ is used when Homer talks about Odysseus’ “relationship” with Calypso, but translators somehow miss the force behind the word. It doesn’t just mean “necessity” like they’d have you think. It means force, violence, and distress. When Odysseus is on Calypso’s island, stuck there with her, it’s not this peaceful love story where Odysseus is some willing lover. It’s a prison. There’s no choice, and no one’s riding off into the sunset together. But translations just gloss over this desperation and make it sound so much more peaceful and comfortable than it ever was. It’s forced captivity, and the use of ἀνάγκῃ screams that: “ἔνθα μὲν ἀμφ᾽ ἀνάγκῃ, τῇ δὲ θεὰ ἐρῶσά μιν ἔσχε.” (“There he stayed out of necessity, for the goddess, in her love, held him there.”).

Homer uses the same word when Odysseus describes his time with Circe: “ἀλλ᾽ ἔμεν᾽ ἐν σπέσσι λαῶν ἀνάγκῃ.” (“But I stayed in her halls by necessity.”). Again, ἀνάγκῃ shows that Odysseus's relationship with Circe is dictated by forces beyond his control. His connection to her isn’t out of love or desire, but out of a divine obligation, a situation where choice is completely stripped away. It’s not love; it’s divine manipulation. So much for romantic freedom!

And let’s not forget how Homer actually portrays the suitors and their reaction to Antinous’ violence. After Antinous, in his full rage, decides to throw a chair at disguised Odysseus, other suitors chime in, disapproving of his actions. They say things like “ἀργὸς εἶναι,” which roughly translates to “you’re acting cowardly,” and “ἀτασθαλία,” meaning “reckless.” They’re still on the same side, sure, but they can’t quite get behind the utter savagery of his actions, and it’s maddening how this detail is often glossed over in some translations. They make it sound like they were all in on the violence, but in the original text, these suitors are not all cut from the same brutal cloth, no matter how much some translators want to make them seem like one big mob.

Homer uses the word οἰκέτες to refer to the people in Odysseus' house. "οἰκέτες" means slaves, people who are literally owned by the household. But oh, what happens in the translations? We get “maids” and “servants,” as if these slaves were just there because they wanted to be, doing chores like it was a normal job. But no, they’re not “maids,” and they sure as hell aren't "servants" in the modern sense. These people have no freedom — they belong to Odysseus. The translation of οἰκέτες as "maids" completely erases the brutality of the system that Homer is talking about.

Interestingly, Telemachus, who is often portrayed as rude or immature, calls these individuals “servants” or "maids" in a more respectful manner. This is the same guy who can barely get his act together most of the time, but here he is, calling the οἰκέτες — slaves, remember — not just slaves but “ἄνδρες ἰκέτες,” which translates to "men-servants" or “butlers.” Like, hello, Telemachus! For once, he’s actually treating them like people instead of just the property that they are in Homer’s original telling. Respectful? Who knew?

And lastly, let’s talk about Penelope. Odysseus, when he finally speaks to her, he says: "ἀλλὰ μὴ ἐπεὶ καὶ σὺ μὲν ἔμπεδος ἐν οἴκῳ, ἔτλησαν δ’ ἐμαὶ ἄλγεα." ("But you, steadfast in your home, endured my sorrows."). Odysseus sees Penelope as the rock, the one who has suffered patiently in his absence. Unlike the goddesses, she’s his equal in suffering, not a forced relationship due to divine will. He longs for her, and her presence stands in stark contrast to the chaotic, imposed relationships he’s had with Circe and Calypso. Penelope is the constant, the one Odysseus has chosen — no divine manipulation, just pure, enduring love.

Anyway, all of this goes to show that translations can twist what Homer was actually trying to say — especially when it comes to the relationships in the story. It’s frustrating to see these critical, subtle moments get flattened into bland, palatable phrases. Maybe if they spent less time trying to make everything sound "noble" and more time actually getting at the grit of what Homer wrote, we wouldn’t have to deal with these watered-down, emotionless versions of The Odyssey that everyone is so obsessed with.

[helpallthenamesaretaken]

and if we don't get a girly lil montage of annabeth's makeover on circe's island with cutesy music in the background in s2, then what's the point??

like imagine. it's percy in a really tight situation rn. he's tempted by his humane insecurities, risking trusting a suspicious primordial goddess. but he's choked, because he wants to be perfect. he wants to be enough. we see a torn expression on walker's face. indecision and doom is hanging in the atmosphere.

then we cut to some pop music blaring in the background. leah's lips are touched up with lipstick a close up shot. her cheeks are brushed with powdered pink. we see her spinning around in some dresses while giggling with the servants (+reyna cameo). she's shooting star eyes at the mirror with someone gives her a grand reveal of her new gorgeous hairstyle.

oh, where were we again? oh yeah. we cut back to percys life or death situation or whatever.

[my-clematis]

The thing about the Scylla sacrifices vs Eurylochus wanting to leave then men on Circe's island behind is the different levels of intent.

In the case of Circe's island, they were blindsided. They were lured into a trap that they had no way of anticipating, and after that what's done is done. In Eurylochus' eyes, the witch has them now, what's done is done, and any attempt to rescue them is likely to lose them more men.

In the case of Scylla, on the other hand, Odysseus had all the foresight. He knew exactly what going through the lair of Scylla would cost, and he intentionally set his men up to be killed. He essentially pays Scylla in human lives for passage through the lair.

Even if we say that there was no other choice, there were other ways of going about it. The most important thing would be to tell the men about Scylla beforehand. That way, those who didn't want to risk death could disembark and start a new life on a different island; not everyone is willing to die to go home, and Odysseus had no right to decide that for them.

Furthermore, its the fact that Odysseus never even tried to find an alternative solution to just standing by and watching Scylla eat his men. THAT is why Eurylochus is so mad, he says as much at the beginning of mutiny.

"When we fought the cyclops, you were quick to hatch a plan And when we fought with Circe, it was you who left behind no man But when we fought this monster, we didn't take a stand We just ran"

Its not just the fact that he traded his men's lives like they were tokens, its the fact that it was his first and only plan, that he didn't even try to find a solution that didn't result in death, and just stood there and did nothing as his men died all around him.

In situations that are unexpected and sudden, you can be forgiven for acting in less than ideal ways. But when you have all the knowledge, all the advanced notice, then you have the power and the responsibility to at least TRY to find a different solution. That's what condemns Odysseus in my eyes, and why I'm willing to cut Eurylochus slack for his reaction to the Circe situation.

Odysseus had all the power, so he has to carry all the blame.

[wukyma]

I'm very curious about your Posepoli AU if you are OK with sharing facts about it ? Maybe what you have in mind? Or what Poseidon have in mind withvhis proposition 🤔 I can't only imagine the crew reaction

Also I'm in absolute love with your art ! The way you color? Your Odysseus ? Incredible. Make me think about fairy tales book illustrations you know ? And don't let go on your design of Poseidon ? He look so cold and distanced, it's actually genius!

Oh, thank you so much 💖 It means a lot! I loved illustrated fairytales as a kid and had a similar book of Greek myths, so that's probably where the style comes from, hehe

As for the AU... I lied shamelessly in the other post and speedran through coloring the panels and imma show y'all everything today!

If you haven't seen the previous one go check it out first

SO, Polites lives. But now he has to cope with the consequences of their recklessness,,

⬇️⬇️⬇️ cut because yapping again

The wind bag gets opened, and they're faced with Poseidon seeking revenge,,

Odysseus' apology isn't accepted (who even apologizes like that??), but Poseidon doesn't get to strike him —

Polites steps in and asks for them to be spared.

The god almost laughs in his face because that's an utterly ridiculous attempt, but decides that there's no harm in amusing himself a bit. Yet, no matter what Poseidon thinks about the man and how much he despises his ideals,, Polites is very different from most mortals he met, with his unshakeable belief in a better world (that realization happens much later in the plot, at the moment he's just pissed off)

So, yeah. Poseidon gives them a challenge: if they find another way around the storm, continue their journey without harming or killing (as per Poli's ideology), and get home, he will spare everyone, even Odysseus. The one who's formally "responsible" for holding up their end of the deal is still Polites, and he gets a kind of seal/tattoo as proof that neither side will go against the terms (yay ✨️aesthetics ✨️)

Forgot to mention: the whole crew is alive — 600 men making their way to Ithaca!

Next stop would be Circe's island,,, guess who will become besties? Ehehwhe

Things I believe are important to mention:

Poseidon REALLY doesn't like Polites in this AU (well,, for now) and wants to see him fail, then drown the fleet and be done with it

His main motivation here wouldn't be to avenge Polyphemus, but to prove that Polites is wrong (same as with Odysseus, but more intense)

Get ready for tons of mockery in the next part ( ；∀；)

I headcanon (not just in this AU but in general) that Polites, Perimedes, and Elpenor are also very close friends!

Odysseus is oblivious about Poli's feelings towards him (dude is mole-blind when it comes to that), but Eurylochus knows

Umm, so that's it for now! See y'all next time, because telling things without throwing pictures in seems meh... However, that's up to you, too. I can continue as it is and draw the scenes you'd like to see and/or choose later :3 Just write how u think would be more okayish i guess??

Bonus thing: congrats on reading till the end lol. there is one inconsistency in the comic above. at the sketch stage I flipped 3 of these panels, and they don't match with the other ones (seen in the details) first one to guess (say the nr order, idc) gets to request ANYTHING epic‐related from me :D

[queefsencen]

kotlc lineup redone !! (notes below cut)

also @exvelovly // @sleepysketchess basically co-created this

notes !!

- sophie has keefes hoodie !! i imagine its some sort of sports hoodie. maybe hockey or soccer. or bramble

- ^^ his number is 7 for seven by taylor swift

- fitz & sophie have cognate rings

- sophie & tam have matching lyrics written on their shoes (birds of a feather by billie eilish)

- maruca was inspired by leah jeffries & annabeth on circe’s island

- stina’s second outfit was originally biana’s

- dex’s shirt almost said b99, criminal minds, young sheldon, and scream queens

[love-ethell]

omg I've been dying to ask someone for this

Telemachus x siren reader who's actually a good siren and helped Telemachus when he was on his mission and they fall in love and him telling his father and ody absolutely crash out because he remembers the sirens he killed

or

if you write for other characters, maybe circe with sailor(?) reader/or let say reader was part of ody crew, maybe disguise as a man so she can go to war and circe find out and offer them to stay with her and her nymphs since she have nothing to go back to im ithaca

Thank you for your listening and have a great day!!

𝔸 𝕋𝕣𝕦���� 𝕙𝕠𝕞𝕖

Circe x female in disguise reader

Word count: 475

Summary: Being part of the crew sent to secure the island, your group stumbles upon a palace. You follow a voice inside, your about to eat the food offered but you get pulled aside from none other than Circe herself, she feels a different energy from you. She then finds out you are not quite what you claim to be, you have no place back in Ithaca so she offers you to stay with her and her nymphs. You accept the offer and as you settle in you find out what a real home is really like.

(not proof read)

You were sent to make sure the Island was secure with Eurylochus and the rest of his crew. Walking up a path surrounded by trees and colored plants you come upon a palace, inside you hear a voice friendly sounding enough, you follow the rest of the crew inside while Eurylochus stays back.

A beautiful woman leads you inside, she sits you and the crew at a table adorned with all sorts of food.

You were about to take a bite but she pulled your hand back, " you, I would like a word with you please." Confused, you stand up as she takes you to a room away from the others.

-

"Is there anything you need my lady..?" You say with a skeptical look. "I'm getting an odd feeling from you.." she starts "are you really a man? Cause ill say you have quite soft features for a warrior.." your heart drops, people have pointed out how you have pretty feminine features but no one has actually questioned you about it.

"Of course I am.." you stammer, looking at the floor.

"you're also a bit short for a male," she chuckles. "Tell me what's your name?" she asks "Its uhm F/n." (fake name) you tell her still trying to keep the facade. She walks over to you, places her hand on your shoulder and looks you in the eyes.

By the gods she was beautiful. "Are you lying to me?" she prods.

You succumb to her, I mean how could you not? Yes.."

she grins, satisfied, "well? What's your real name?"

"Its Y/n." you respond almost immediately.

"If I may ask, why did you join a flock of men, princess?" she teases while genuinely asking.

"I grew up on the streets, no family, no home, so when I heard they were sending all eligible men to war I decided to join, I've always been good at fighting so I cut my hair and I joined them as an escape." you explain.

Her eyes widen and her brows furrow at your story, "well I'm sorry, and if you would like.. you could stay with us here?"

" Really..? You mean it?" you ask, pondering her offer. After the run in with Poseidon and the wind bag. You want to get off that boat.

She nods, seeing that you feel a weight lifted off your shoulders, you hug her

"thank you."

"Of course princess." she kisses your forehead, making you giggle and flush up.

-

As time passes you grow closer and closer with Circe and her nymphs, they see you as a mother along with Circe after you and Circe start dating

you find peace within yourself and the palace, you couldn't ask for more. A comfortable place to live, a loving girlfriend and True home.

(AUGGHHH I LOVE HER SMMM, also sorry if this is a bit short I rushed cause I'm working on the next chapter of blooming hearts and I wanted to get this one out fast I wouldn't mind doing a follow up on this if anyone wanted! >0<)

[mirrorcatcreditcard]

Eurylochus held true to Odysseus' words about love, and nobody really acknowledges it.

They are perfect foil for each other.

Odysseus' struggle to keep his crew alive and ultimately ends in their deaths and his fleet's destruction.

Eurylochus' struggle to keep Odysseus alive and the crew safe ultimately ends in his brother being stabbed and heart break.

Every song and scene they have together has them take separate paths to try to reach their results.

"Remember Them" — Odysseus is filled with pain and haunting memories, and Eurylochus tries harder to tell his captain to be cautious because he saw what happened. They're hurting. This pain will manifest in two different ways.

(placeholder so the posts don't mesh together)

"Luck Runs Out" — Odysseus is blind to his own arrogance and overconfidence while Eurylochus, singing for himself and the crew, reminds him that the powers above are dangerous. The captain sees this as mild insubordination; Eurylochus sees it as the only way to be able to express his concern but agrees to stop publicly doubting his king.

"You rely on wit and then men die on it" = why can't you see that you are not the "neither man or mythical" you claim to be

"Puppeteer" — Eurylochus finally starts a song, a significant development, to confess something to his king because he knows what he has done wrong and wants to be honest and upfront. Odysseus dismisses him due to the problems in his mind and what he thinks is priority. The second-in-command knows how saving people always seems to go and tries to sway Odysseus to cut off the metaphorical lizard tail. Odysseus is haunted by the deaths that have already occurred and wants to hold onto any crew member that he can.

"There's no length I wouldn't go if it was you I had to save. I can only hope you'd do the same." He does not know that Eurylochus being able to doubt him so much and remind him of mortality is him sticking his neck out. He's closer to Odysseus and has a tighter bond, but he can still be punished for lack of obedience. He breaks the rules for Odysseus, and all the man sees is a rule-breaker due to familiarity. He's doing the same every time he speaks.

"It's a game of wits, but you don't have to play" = reminder, Ody, that we can leave and keep trying

(In between) Notice we don't hear Eurylochus as a strong voice w/ the crew since Odysseus hushed him on Circe's Island. I believe this is significant. He doesn't speak until he can reveal his sins.

"Scylla" — Eurylochus can finally let the news off of his chest, but unfortunately for him, three songs ago his captain decided to become a monster. Odysseus, betrayed already and knowing he must sacrifice six men includes his right hand in the torchbearers lineup, but someone steals the torch. This series of actions has Eurylochus suspect/know the plot while noticing his captain did nothing but resign himself.

"Leaving them feeling betrayed, breaking the bonds that you've made..." A double meaning. The right-hand left his captain feeling betrayed. The king left his brother-in-law feeling betrayed. The entire crew is in pain and has had enough.

Note: All of Scylla's lines have multiple meanings, but I'll be here all night if I try to dissect each one in this post.

"Mutiny" — The sacrifice is the final straw for Eurylochus. He held back before because Odysseus' goal was to keep them alive and go home, but there's none of that here. He demands an answer but cannot be given one. With regret, he does the only thing he can think and fights Odysseus, hoping to beat him and make him finally come off his high horse or false near-god ideology or beat sense into him at the very least.

Zoom to the future, Eurylochus cannot lead the men on his own with his own will and has lost hope. Odysseus begs him not to make any rash decision, but he kills the cow of the sun god and shocks himself out of the depressed and desperate haze he was in.

"Don't make me fight you, brother, you know you'd have done the same" = if you were in my position, would you not sacrifice for my sister?

"If you want all the power, you must carry all the blame" = you cannot appeal to my empathy to cover up your mistakes anymore, brother

"I'm just a man." It's ironic that the only time he uses this line for himself reflects Odysseus' blindness in a different way. He speak almost like he's in a trance and is driven by his instincts. Odysseus says he's just a man to protest his emotions and needs and ultimate choice to throw away lives because he needs his goal. Though many comment jokingly on Eurylochus not deserving this line, I think this is his own way of being shown to connect to his captain before the shit drops.

"Thunder Bringer" — Eurylochus says the least during this song. His solitary lines are calling for his captain, his brother, his friend one last time and admitting to himself and Odysseus the inevitability of his choice he already knows is chosen. In Neal Illustrator's depiction of this particular song, it shows the crew surging forward at the betrayal as Eurylochus stays behind with a lost and broken look. That hurt resignation is the last thing we see from Eurylochus for the rest of the musical.

Oh my gods, these are the perfect antagonist and protagonist duo, and I love them together dearly.

[aroaceleovaldez]

I HAVE BEEN REMINDED OF SOMETHING i think i've made a post about it before but maybe it's just sitting in my drafts. idk, whatever, I will ramble again. Said thing that reminded me was a tiktok by madison_murrah about how the PJO TV show doesn't get the balance between mundanity and magical correct for pjo and I want to expand on that cause while a.) it totally is a problem in the show and i take issue with it, b.) it is also a problem in later books and i ALSO take issue with that too and i would like to elaborate on it

this got long so ramble of the day below the cut:

so the thing is that PJO is actually pretty unique in it's approach to hidden world modern fantasy. like, hidden world modern fantasy is a decently established genre with a ton of examples, but there's a reason why PJO stands out so much, and that's because technically it's NOT "hidden world." There is very intentionally no distinction between the mundane world and the mythological, at least in first series. They 100% overlap. And you do not necessarily need to be "special" to see the "mythological world-" some mortals are totally naturally clear-sighted, a lot of kids are clear-sighted, and it's like 50/50 for if mortals can become clear-sighted. In fact, most demigods aren't immune to the effects of the Mist, all that really matters is if you're actually thinking about being able to see through it. And there's a reason for that!

In general, this format of the "hidden world" modern fantasy serves two purposes: One, as the series is meant to introduce people to Greek mythology and explain why it is relevant and how it can be relatable in modern contexts, it intentionally juxtaposes myths against modern concepts: Medusa runs an apparently average garden statue store. Procrustes runs a mattress store. The entrance to the Underworld is in LA at a record store. Circe lives on an island paradise that's secretly dangerous. Hydras are like chain donut stores that seem to pop up on every corner. Perseus and his mother struggle in Perseus' childhood but get a happy ending. Calypso has an island paradise where the challenge for the hero of our story is being tempted to leave behind his goals. The plot of Sea of Monsters is blatantly the Odyssey, and it's about Percy trying to get to his best friend (who he shares a literal psychic link to) who is in danger of getting married to someone awful (a literal monster) to help you understand Odysseus trying to get back to Penelope and how important to each other and in sync they are. Battle of the Labyrinth is Theseus and the Labyrinth and it's Percy/Theseus trying to protect his home and his people and fellow kids (like Nico) from the dangers in the maze. These are all supposed to help us understand what is actually going on in those stories.

We also still see how Greek mythology influence shapes and influences western culture in general in their world (which is supposed to be our own and so uses real-world examples) - in government, in architecture, in pop culture - Mythomagic is clearly supposed to be your standard TCG like Magic The Gathering. And in general there is no distinction between where the mythological ends and mundane begins - Camp Half-Blood is both a magical training space for demigods and your run of the mill underfunded summer camp, complete with cheesy camp songs and t-shirts and crafts. Olympus is located on top of the Empire State Building which is operating completely as normal except for when a demigod asks to go to a non-existent floor. Your best friend with a muscular disease in his legs is secretly a satyr. Your brother with down syndrome is a cyclops. Your teacher in a wheelchair is secretly an immortal centaur. Your crappy algebra substitute is a literal fury. But also they're still your teachers. The satyr is still your best friend, the cyclops is still your brother. And that brings me to the second aspect of all of this (which i have talked about before [here] and [here]) - the other purpose it serves is that it is an extension of the overarching disability themes that form the core of the series.

The entire reason that meshing of mundanity and magical is so intertwined is entirely because it's part of the disability metaphor, specifically inspired by early 2000s parenting/teaching concepts for children with disabilities, particularly learning disabilities, as trying to reframe disabilities as "superpowers" to empower kids (and still exists in some more modern forms - like referring to disabilities as "being differently-abled") (I talk about it in my previous post on the subject but this generally fell out of favor due to many kids/students finding it belittling of their struggles) - this is why we get the description of ADHD and Dyslexia being framed as "demigod superpowers." In the series this structure is intentionally made to encourage kids to reframe how they view disabilities in general as not something negative but something interesting and fantastical that they may be more open to engage with - and PJO does this in a really nice way where a lot of the disability struggles are still acknowledged and treated sympathetically. Kids still get bullied, Percy and Annabeth struggle in school or with reading/spelling, they grapple with both internal and external ableism. The entire reason for the titan war in the first series, at least from the demigod perspective, is criticizing flawed systems meant to support disabled people that don't do their job effectively or let too many people fall through the cracks. The Mist "hiding" the "mythological world" from mortals (and even some demigods) is about how most abled people (and some undiagnosed people) don't recognize disability struggles until it affects them personally. None of these things are glossed over! It's handled with nuance and care! The series says "you can be disabled and you can be like these fantastical heroes - not in spite of your disability, but alongside it. Neither negates the other." The series was explicitly made so Rick's disabled son could see himself in a hero and learn about mythology for school. Those are the two pillars of the entire franchise: Disability and learning about mythology.

So, when you mess with that "hidden world" structure, the entire thing falls apart and it immediately doesn't feel right, because it's no longer serving either of those two purposes when it needs to be fulfilling both. Late-series Riordanverse has a tendency to compartmentalize the mythological and keep it entirely sectioned off from the mundane. Think about first series and even TKC versus later series - how many mortal characters are there? what do they do? are they just in the background or do they interact with the main cast frequently? are they more than just family or an extension to the main cast? First series we see Percy's classmates frequently, Percy talks about his mundane experiences at school, multiple mortal parent characters (and other mortal characters like Rachel) are active participants in and vital to the plot. We even see a lot of background mortal characters. In TKC, not only are all the magicians technically mortal, but also Sadie's completely mundane best friends help her out. Now think about HoO, or ToA, or even MCGA. Think about the mortal characters in those series. How important are they? Out of the important ones, how much are they in mundane situations versus being almost entirely involved in something mythological? How many aren't related to any of the main cast? How many aren't actively working for a god? The answer is basically zero! Why is that? Because Rick stopped letting the mundane exist. The entire draw of the main series is that Percy does continue to live this mundane life and that adds to his mythological life and makes the balance and meshing between them interesting, but basically all mundanity ceases to exist by HoO. Camp Jupiter is an isolated entirely magic town. Percy and Jason's schools are full of mythological beings as basically the only people they interact with. The Tri's headquarters is an entire giant building in New York City that they completely control that just so happens to ALSO be directly across the street from the local Oracle's house, because even where Rachel lives isn't allowed to be mundane anymore. Why is Olympus just at the top of the Empire State Building versus the Tri having an ENTIRE building? That feels weird and unbalanced, particularly given the difference in importance between those two! Because one is playing into that balance of the meshing of mundane and magical and the other isn't! The show continues this trend. It doesn't allow any of the mythological to exist within mundanity like it functions in the books, which creates a completely different atmosphere and doesn't allow those spaces or scenes or characters to serve their actual narrative purposes, either making it easier to understand mythology contextually or what disability metaphor or representation is occurring there.

It's part of the problem with show!Percy being too mythologically-savvy - Percy is supposed to be the mundane lens unfamiliar with mythology that the audience is learning by proxy through. That's the entire point of the series! If you have Percy already know everything because he's already too ingrained into this mythological environment from the start, and he just exists in this entirely magical world where he understands everything immediately then the literal target audience of the entire franchise (students being introduced to mythology) is left behind! That's part of why the pacing of the show feels so bad! It's rushing through every scene that's more or less the same as the books, particularly anything mythological, because the show is assuming you've already read the books and already know enough mythology to know what it is and what happens and that you don't want to see it again, so it rushes through. The show doesn't explain things that it presumes you already know - worldbuilding, character decisions, basically any mythology, etc, so it doesn't even bother with it.

Later books in the franchise do this too - as long as it's tangentially Greco-Roman mythology, or if it's anything to do with the main series like a reference in TKC or MCGA or etc, it's not going to elaborate much if at all. HoO speeds through Jason's introduction to CHB, and the only reason we get much introduction to Camp Jupiter is because it's actually new. We're no longer trying to contextualize or learn about mythology, it just all becomes set-dressing and references thrown at you rapid-fire as filler. By late HoO and into TOA and TSATS and such, we're not longer even within the realm of pretending like we're adhering to mythology at all. Why is Iris a vegan? Why is Rhea a hippie? Dunno, don't care! Literally doesn't matter! Why are the pandai panda/elephant-monsters and the troglodytes frog-monsters when that's not part of their actual history at all? Well a.) literally just word associations and b.) possibly a little bit of racism (they're supposed to be humans from India and northern Africa, and you made them monsters. cool. okay. and their plotlines totally aren't horrible within those contexts. awesome. please try thinking literally at all next time, thanks). We're not even bothering to look at mythological instances anymore for a basis, a lot of it's written like we're just going based on the first results on google (hi Menoetes and the cacodaemons - the latter of which is not even spelt correctly once in the entire book - which is weird because they do say "daemon" so they know the word. Not that the cacodaemons are mythologically accurate at all because then they would be humanoid. Instead they seem to just be inspired by the things from Doom). None of it serves the purpose of the narrative at all; we're literally just making random choices, some of them quite distasteful! In large part due to refusing to acknowledge the actual contexts of the myths and how that might translate into something similar or equivalent a modern setting to help conceptualize it - something the first series did inherently by design. And we need this! A.) So that you're less likely to make bad decisions because you are inherently thinking about the historical and cultural contexts of these things and how to compare/explain it, and b.) because the audience for later books/the other series and the show is going to be the same as the first series! Those nonsensical references may be at best cameos to people who are already familiar with them, but if your intended audience is new to mythology then making references like that is just going to leave people out of the loop! You don't shift your target audience in the middle of a franchise!

Later books in the series and the show are failing to understand what the first series was actually doing narratively and how it was approaching these subjects and its audience. When you fail to do that, it completely messes up the general worldbuilding and the core themes and intentions of the franchise as a whole. Once you lose touch with that you might as well just be writing a completely different franchise. You need to approach it from the same lens or else it will feel completely off, because otherwise you've lost all base touchstones that make the series what it is.

[georgi-girl]

Epic the Musical ON STAGE!

So, Epic is obviously great (IMO it makes Greek mythology cool again) and while I love watching all the animatics people make for it, the best visual adaptation I can think of for it would be an official stage play.

Picture this: 

The play opens on a big prop wooden horse. Then the stage crew turns it around and reveals that it's hollow and Odysseus and the Greeks are sitting inside it. Notable men jump onstage as Odysseus says their names. 

The backup singers would wear traditional robes and masks like the Greek tragedies of old. 

Whenever Penelope and later Telemachus are mentioned, they appear on stage and Odysseus looks at them while he sings. 

God characters would stand on raised platforms and have colorful body paint. (Gold for Zeus, silver for Athena, metallic blue for Poseidon, etc) 

The stage lights would turn dark red whenever someone dies. 

The crew would sail on a giant ship prop. 

The lotus eaters would wear flower cloaks and crouch low to the ground. 

The cyclops would be played by someone on stilts with a spotlight for an eye. 

The stage would have a spinning thing like they use in Hamilton. Very useful. I don’t know what it’s called. 

Aeolus would have cyan body paint and sit on a mobile throne of clouds. 

When Poseidon appears, the lighting becomes blue. 

When Circe sings, her nymphs would stand behind her and pose like classical paintings. 

Hermes would have aqua body paint and fly on wires. 

During Circe’s songs, there would be wooden pig props in the background. When she touches them with her wand, they get turned around and the human men appear. 

Ghost characters would be covered in white body paint.  

As the ship sails past Odysseus’ mother, he would walk along it to see her better and as they part, they would reach towards each-other. 

The prophet would touch Odysseus’ face as he foretells the future.  

Former enemies appear behind Odysseus as he sings ‘Monster’. 

Intermission would be before or after the Thunder Saga. 

The sirens would have wings AND tails. The crew cuts them all off. 

Scylla would be represented by giant scary animatronic. 

When Odysseus is stabbed during the mutiny, the crew surrounds him as the scene changes. Then when they part, he’s tied up and they’re on the Sun Island.  

While Telemachus sings, Athena watches him from a distance. 

Right between ‘Legendary’ and ‘Little Wolf’ Telemachas puts up his dukes against Antonios. 

Whenever Athena appears, the lights dim and everyone but her and the one she’s singing to stand frozen.  

As Calypso sings to Odyseuss, she tends his wounds and tries to embrace him. As he sings, he tries to get away from her. 

During ‘God Games’ every god has different lighting. (That goes without saying) 

Calypso helps Odysseus make his raft as she sings.  

The stage spins around to represent the whirlpool.  

During “600 Strike” the ghosts of the crew appear in white body paint and help Odysseus wrestle Poseidon’s trident away from him. 

During “The Challenge” Penelope is followed by robed servants. In the background, other servants lead hooded Odysseus on stage. 

In the background of ‘Hold Them Down’ Odysseus picks up the bow and strings it, while servants pick up all the swords and spears. At the end of the song he shoots through the axes in Antonios’ neck. 

(I don’t know how to represent suitors being shot by arrows. Maybe the choir members can carry them)  

While Odysseus and Telemachus reunite, servants clean up the palace around them. And before Odysseus talks with Athena, the choir surrounds him and reveals him in handsome kingly clothes.  

In the final song the spotlight is on Penelope and Odysseus while all the other characters watch from the background. When Penelope sings “Waiting” she takes Odyseuss’ hands and they slowly lean toward each other for a kiss. 

What do you think? Be honest! Comments and suggestions are appreciated. I might add additional ideas when I come up with them.

[dootznbootz]

I don't know about you, but I'm a bit mixed about Calypso in EPC. I mean, her songs are good, her singer's quite talented, so I don't have a problem... musically, at least.

But, story-wise, Calypso seems a bit too victim-like in my taste. "I'm not sorry for loving you" seems like it wants to make us sympathize with her and to consider her as Odysseus' friend.

While making her nuanced is interesting, the Epic fandom could be inclined to forget what she did to him in the Odyssey. And how miserable he was alongside her.

On the plus side, "Love in paradise" affirms she's the powerful one and Odysseus later confirms he doesn't love her romantically (plus Athena's 'he never cheated on his wife' line in "God games")

So it won't be detrimental for OdyPen 🥰.

What do you think ?

Oh, I'm definitely mixed about Calypso in Epic. As just like you said:

"While making her nuanced is interesting, the Epic fandom could be inclined to forget what she did to him in the Odyssey. And how miserable he was alongside her."

The Epic Fandom already DOES forget what happens in the Odyssey or think that they are the same thing. :/ I see stuff talking about Scylla in how Odysseus lights the torches and yet, it's tagged as "Odyssey". I love "light up six torches" as it's very dark but also very painful for Epic!Odysseus and that's really fun!

But I get saddened when people think that happened in the Odyssey ;~; as it's one of my favorite parts where Odysseus, knowing that Circe warned him, still goes to put on his armor to try and fight Scylla himself. He tried so fucking hard to save them. And they all grieved later on together. Eurylochus does mutiny in both but in the Odyssey, it isn't because of Scylla or anything. They were all just...Hungry ;~;

That's not even talking about how the Epic Fandom was when we only got the snippet of "There are other ways" ;~;

I still remember when there were jokes about how Odysseus is just like Hamilton and "Couldn't say No to this." Also Circe never did that to "protect her nymphs" in the Odyssey. She did it for funsies as she's a goddess and can do what she wants. That doesn't mean he was happy though.

I DO trust Jay to do well with Calypso's island. While I really am nervous about "I'm not Sorry for Loving you." like very nervous. I think HE'LL also make it clear that Odysseus isn't well or happy. As he has that cut song with the lyrics of:

"Is this some kind of trick? Pretending I can go Because if so, you're sick My heart's already broken"

So even though he cut that song because the beat and the music did NOT fit the situation, I'm very sure he'll have another like it showing Odysseus' despair and suffering.

I just... sighs I'm in a funky situation where I love Epic. I love it a lot. I think it's a genuinely good and fun retelling. I think while some spots are inaccurate, some are still really neat. I just get sad about this almost...disdain towards the actual Odyssey?

"Oh, Odysseus doesn't mention Penelope and Telemachus as much as he does in Epic-" Yes, he does. It's in so many of the metaphors and there's so many moments where he's clearly thinking about them. I love singing Penelope's name longingly too but an ancient epic poem is gonna be a lil different xD

"Oh Polites isn't really in it-" ...And?? That's okay. You enjoy Jay's character he created who really isn't in the Odyssey as much.

"Odysseus is such a manwhore in the Odyssey-" I am beating you over the head with a fucking rock.

Jay is clearly so fucking passionate and cares about this story so so much (he had a MENELAUS SONG (I grieve it's loss every day ;~; THEY CAN BOTH SIMP FOR THEIR HOT AF WIVES)) He had other characters planned!

But yeah ;~; I get so fucking sad every time someone talks about Epic being better than the Odyssey. Like even JAY wanted to clear that up that "hey, the Odyssey is really cool! I mean I wrote this because I love it so much." and yet... people don't wanna know or even TRY to understand what happens in the actual Epics.

I have hope. I just hope the FANDOM follows through.

[oddyseye]

Dissecting every reason people call Eurylochus a hypocrite because I am sick and tired of defending this poor hungry man.

Eurylochus is not the easy villain or the perfect saint. He is the walking contradiction of the Odyssey and EPIC, and anyone who just calls him a hypocrite without understanding the nuances of his motivations really isn’t paying attention to the full picture. Let’s start with the infamous wind bag fiasco, which happens early enough for Eurylochus to show us his conflict. Yes, he doubts Odysseus’ judgment when it comes to the Wind God’s island, warning him about the risks. And let’s be real, Eurylochus is absolutely right. If you look at the situation, Odysseus is acting impulsively, relying on his wits and bravado, thinking he can control the outcome with the power of his charm. But this? It’s a god’s realm. The gods don’t work on your timetable. At this point, what does Odysseus’ confidence even mean? Eurylochus sees it as reckless, and I agree. Yes, Eurylochus is a bit wary of everything at this point (which might be annoying if you’re Odysseus), but it’s a valid concern. And Odysseus’ reply? It's a bit patronizing. He doesn’t respect Eurylochus’ caution. Instead of listening to his crew member, his second-in-command, Odysseus tells him to stand down and demands blind loyalty. Of course, this sets the stage for Eurylochus’ next crucial transformation. He’s now seen Odysseus as someone who doesn’t care about the real risks or the crew. People LOVE to bring up that line where Eurylochus says he opened the wind bag. Okay, okay, he messed up. But here’s the thing: he knows he messed up, and he admits it. In front of everyone. He’s not hiding it. He’s not making excuses. He’s owning up to it. And people still want to call him a hypocrite? He wasn’t the one who set the trap for the entire crew by opening that wind bag. Odysseus gave some instructions, but he knew the crew was starving and desperate. And then, on top of that, you have the winions stirring the pot, telling everyone there’s treasure in the bag? What did he think would happen? The crew wasn’t exactly in the best headspace to be taking orders from a guy who was clearly not as present as he should have been. You can’t put all the blame on Eurylochus when Odysseus didn’t exactly set them up for success. Everyone was already in a fragile place after the war, and Odysseus should have known better than to leave room for temptation. He was the leader; he should’ve anticipated how bad the temptation would be. Eurylochus gets a little too much flak for something that wasn’t entirely his fault. There’s enough blame to go around for everyone, not just one guy. All of the crew wanted to open the bag, Eurylochus was just the one who did. He represents the voice of the crew. His biggest focus becomes apparent in the Circe Saga, specifically during Puppeteer, when Eurylochus is forced into a brutal choice on Circe’s island. After the men are turned into pigs, Eurylochus has to come to terms with his decision. He’s a pragmatist. He doesn’t trust the island, doesn’t want to gamble their lives on a witch’s promises. So, when Odysseus sends him and the crew to investigate, Eurylochus doesn’t just go along for the ride, he stays behind and urges Odysseus to get out of there. But let’s remember, this moment is a turning point for Eurylochus. He’s scared, yes, but also rational. He was the one who saw the situation from a distance and thought, “This is too risky.” He’s the realist who wants to cut his losses, but it’s important to notice that his fear is the fear of losing more men, not necessarily cowardice. Unlike Odysseus, who acts out of hope, Eurylochus is practical. His attitude here reflects the trauma they’ve been through and how tired he is of losing people. That’s why his frustration boils over later when Odysseus sacrifices men — because Eurylochus has seen enough death.

Now, let’s talk about Scylla. Because this is the moment where everything Eurylochus has learned comes crashing down on him. Remember that vow Odysseus made to him earlier: “There’s no length I wouldn’t go if it was you I had to save”? Well, that sentiment sticks with Eurylochus. He takes that to heart. So when Odysseus makes the decision to sacrifice six men to Scylla, you can see why he snaps. It’s not just that Odysseus is willing to sacrifice them — it’s that he does it without warning, without giving them the choice. Eurylochus feels like Odysseus has abandoned everything he taught him about loyalty. That vow he made? Yeah, it means nothing now. Eurylochus is furious because Odysseus fails him here. He’s been teaching Eurylochus the value of every single life, yet when the time comes to uphold that belief, Odysseus throws it out the window to save himself and his pride. So, of course Eurylochus is mad. And it’s not about the six men dying (because, let’s be real, he’s no saint), it’s about the betrayal. He’s been made to believe in the cause, but now he sees Odysseus as a hypocrite. It stings, and it’s totally justified. This leads us to Mutiny. Eurylochus is right to be mad at Odysseus for sacrificing six men just to save his own skin. Don’t even try to justify that. Odysseus put his own desire to get home ahead of the lives of his crew. Eurylochus did not agree to be cannon fodder for Odysseus’ personal agenda. He wasn’t going to sit back and watch his brothers die without questioning what the heck was going on. So, when Odysseus goes full “sacrifice six for the greater good,” you bet Eurylochus was angry. He wasn’t just upset because they were going to die; he was upset because Odysseus made the decision to send them to their deaths without even consulting them. Eurylochus’ reaction is human, it’s justifiable, and it’s completely rational. He’s not a traitor, he’s someone who realizes that Odysseus’ quest for glory comes at the expense of the people he supposedly cares about. Then we get to the cattle of Helios because apparently everyone’s learnt nothing. Eurylochus has already checked out emotionally. He’s looked at the situation, and for him, the reality of their fate is clear: they’re not going to make it home. They’re already dead in a way, and the gods are just playing with them. So when faced with the opportunity to eat the cows, he sees it as a way to take some control over a situation where they’ve lost all control. His logic isn’t about doing what’s morally right in the eyes of the gods. At least if they’re going to die, they can do it on their own terms — full stomachs, no slow starvation or suffering. It’s a very bleak and cynical perspective, but it’s also realistic. And in a way, it shows a form of wisdom that Odysseus doesn’t have in this moment. Odysseus, of course, refuses to let go of hope. His entire journey is a testament to his stubbornness and unwillingness to give up. That’s his defining trait, and it’s what keeps him going, but it also blinds him to the obvious signs of doom around him. He refuses to accept that the gods are no longer in his favor, that they’ve been punished for their mistakes, and that he’s already sealed their fate. For Odysseus, admitting that they’ve lost would be admitting defeat, and that’s something he can’t stomach. So, instead of facing the reality of the situation, he doubles down on his hope and pride. Eurylochus isn’t the naive one here. He’s not playing the hero’s game. He’s real. He’s already accepted that their journey is doomed, but he refuses to be passive in that fate. He wants to take charge of how they go out. He’s not waiting for divine intervention anymore because, honestly, it hasn’t worked out so well for them so far. He’s out of options and out of faith.

But here’s the darker, more tragic implication: Eurylochus’ perspective is the voice of the crew. His attitude — “We’re never gonna make it home; we’re already doomed” — isn’t just his own individual despair; it’s shared by everyone else around him. The crew is no longer fighting for survival; they’ve been through too much. They’ve seen too many of their comrades die for a cause that seems meaningless at this point (how do you think Perimedes would feel when Elpenor died). They’ve been stranded for so long, constantly at the mercy of the gods, with no real agency over their fates. They’ve lost hope. The entire crew is in a suicidal state of mind, and Eurylochus’ willingness to eat the cows is just the worst tangible sign of that collective despair. He’s the one who finally gives voice to it, like always, but it’s a sentiment that’s been building throughout their journey. He’s come to terms with it in a way that Odysseus has not. In that sense, his desire to eat the cows is almost a form of passive suicide — an attempt to bring some meaning, some control to an already doomed situation. His actions signal a profound loss of the will to live. This attitude is contagious. When Eurylochus speaks, he’s speaking for a crew that’s also checked out, a crew that’s surrendered to the inevitable. They don’t believe in their survival anymore. They’re not thinking about glory or heroism. They’re thinking about getting something out of their final moments, about finding some form of solace in the face of certain death. They no longer care about the gods or their promises. They just want to eat, even if it means defying the divine laws. This is a crew that’s collectively suicidal, mentally exhausted, and emotionally broken. And Eurylochus, in choosing to act, becomes both the catalyst for their final downfall and the embodiment of their emotional exhaustion and surrender.

He doesn’t trust Odysseus anymore. Odysseus promised to bring them home, but where are they? They’re stranded, they’ve lost men, brothers, friends, and the gods keep throwing obstacles in their path. When Odysseus becomes a king in his eyes and no longer a brother, it’s clear: Eurylochus starts thinking about himself, and that definitely doesn’t make him a hypocrite. It makes him human. It makes him someone who’s had enough. So, when the storm hits, and Eurylochus says, “We’re going to die anyway,” it’s not just a defeatist attitude — it’s the voice of someone who’s been burned by his faith in Odysseus too many times. He finally does what Odysseus would have done if he weren’t so obsessed with getting home — he does what’s necessary for survival. It’s harsh, but it’s consistent with his struggle all along. Eurylochus isn’t a hypocrite because he speaks out against Odysseus — he’s just a man who wants to believe in loyalty, but realizes that Odysseus has never really been loyal to anyone but his wife, never his men. It’s a brutal realization, and it’s only when he lashes out in Mutiny that we see the full extent of his disillusionment.

So, before anyone calls Eurylochus a hypocrite, let’s remember that he was the one who had to deal with the consequences of Odysseus’ stubbornness and false promises. He wanted to be the loyal friend, the one who stuck by his leader. But Odysseus made it impossible. Now, he’s just a man broken by the very loyalty he once held dear.

[glitchy-creations]

Telegonus; son of Circe and second prince of Ithaca

It’s Telegonus time! The original 1/2 body pose ref is by @mellon_soup! All information is under the cut 💕

Side note: This version of Telegonus is simply for fun for a silly au I have in my head! Given how little we know of him I did take creative liberties with his lore/character 💕

To start with, my personal au thing I have in my head doesn’t follow the Telegony perfectly. I imagine everything is roughly the same except Odysseus does di3 at the end (this is more comedy than tragedy ngl). Telegonus is the only son of Circe and Odysseus, fathered during the year Ody and his crew were on her island. Circe didn’t realise she was pregnant until after Ody left so he didn’t realise he had another son until years later. Because of this, I imagine Telegonus heard stories about Ody but Circe never really told her son what his father looked like for one reason or another. That’s what caused the “incident” once the two finally met decades later; neither one recognises the other.

I imagine growing up on Circe’s island, Telegonus had developed a deep respect for women. I mean he spent his childhood around his mother and her nymphs, I can’t imagine he would be disrespectful towards women. Telegonus is very much a mama’s boy (not in the toxic way) and immediately shows respect to Penelope when he comes to live in Ithaca. He would eventually come to see Penelope as a second mother and he loves her very dearly. As for his relationship with Odysseus, i imagine it’s a bit more tense and slow going. Not only does Ody have to cope with the fact that he had a child with Circe, he’s now also grappling with the fact that he wasn’t there for ANOTHER son, whether he meant to or not. I don’t think he dislikes Telegonus or anything, they’re just sort of awkwardly navigating the situation as best they can. I feel seeing how well Telemachus & Penelope get along with Telegonus probably helps some of the tension not being so suffocating. Of all his half-siblings, Telemachus is probably Telegonus’ favorite lol. I imagine Telegonus takes after Circe the most, particularly in appearance, though he does take after Ody as well. He’s the most mischievous and playful of his siblings, having taken after Ody’s more mischievous side & always knows how to lighten the mood.

As for design, my main inspiration was the sun and lions! I adore lion inspired Circe designs, given she’s often depicted with them, so I tried to include that motive with Telegonus. He has big fluffy hair, more cat shaped eyes, and his nose was even loosely inspired by the shape of a lions. I also tried to tie in the sun and his familial relationship with Helios in his design. Compared to Ithaca’s royal family who wears cooler tones, Telegonus has a warmer palette. He wears bright gold adornments decorated with subtle sun motifs, his clothes are warmer tones, and even his skin and hair are warmer compared to his siblings. He has warm golden eyes, and to tie in with my other demigod OCs, he has a pink ring in his eyes inspired by a sunrise! I also like the idea that his eyes kind of glow in the dark and that he walks super quietly like a cat. Telegonus has definitely scared Ody and the servants in the middle of the night on accident 😅

[cowboys-tshot]

I keep seeing people call Eurylochus a hypocrite, and while I kinda agree, I also kinda disagree. Hear me out.

So, people's main thing with Eury is that he gets mad at Odysseus for sacrificing six men to Scylla, but he doomed all of the crew by opening the wind bag, and wanted to abandon 22 men-turned-pigs on Circe's island. (For anyone wondering where I'm getting that number, it's from The Odyssey).

But these events aren't really the same, or comparable. Let's take them one by one. (This is gonna be a long one, so I'll cut the post here for the sake of your timelines)

The wind bag. I fully understand why people are pissed at Eurylochus for doing this, and I am too. But you have to remember that he did not do this out of malicious intent. He did not know this would end in the eventual deaths of the entire crew. Even though Eurylochus was warned about the storm being inside the bag, none of them knew it would take them right to the Laestrygonians. He had no idea Poseidon was pissed off at Odysseus for blinding Polyphemus. It was a stupid decision, certainly, but the following events were not intentional on his part.

Circe's island. Eurylochus had no reason to believe there was any way of rescuing those 22 men. Circe's a goddess/witch. What the fuck are two human dudes gonna do about that? Odysseus didn't even know what he was going to do. He would not have had any solution if not for Hermes, which is not something Eurylochus could've predicted. It's pretty reasonable for him to think that those men were a lost cause.

Scylla. So far, all of the deaths have been "accidental:" 14 from Polyphemus, 543 from Poseidon/Laestrygonians, and 1 from Circe (RIP Elpenor). I am not attributing the 543 deaths to Eurylochus for the reasons detailed above. No one knew these deaths would happen. They were all sudden/unexpected. Let's take these next sixth deaths moment-by-moment:

Odysseus redirects the ship, using directions that no one else knew (Odysseus was reading the siren's lips, but everyone else was too busy catching the other sirens, and all of them had beeswax in their ears). Odysseus tells Eurylochus to light six torches.

One by one, Eurylochus watches every man that he handed a torch get brutally eaten. He himself is almost eaten, but he passes his torch off to someone else before he notices the correlation. He only realizes what's happening as the sixth man is about to die, and Eurylochus is too late to save him.

Odysseus won't even gaze at the blood left behind. But it's all Eurylochus can look at.

These deaths were planned. Odysseus knew what he was bringing his men into, and not only did he keep it from them, he sacrificed his men that didn't even know what was happening. And Eurylochus likely feels part of the blame, having been the one to light the torches, even if he didn't know the consequences of it.

Eurylochus has a right to be upset, to be angry. These are the first deaths that could have been prevented, because Odysseus could've simply not taken his men through Scylla's territory. But that's the only way to get home. Odysseus sees it as a necessary sacrifice, but Eurylochus sees it as needless. Because at this point, Eurylochus has given up hope that they'll ever get home. What is the point of sacrificing these men for a goal we will never achieve?

This is not a situation where one person is at fault. Odysseus and Eurylochus are both to blame. Like Scylla says, "There is no price we won't pay." Odysseus himself says, "You know you'd have done the same." People do stupid, dangerous, bad shit to survive. Odysseus sacrifices his men. Eurylochus still wants to live, he just doesn't see the point in trying to return to Ithaca. That's why he kills Helios's cattle. He is starving and he wants to live, even though he knows the consequences.

The whole point of all this is that people will do awful and/or stupid things to survive. Not just Odysseus.

[mari-lair]

Jay disclosed Eurylochus doesn't have a clear purpose, so he doesn't have an instrument of his own, using the voice of the crew as his instrument/purpose, said crew isn't happy with Odysseus, at all.

Cuts songs like "Cope with that" and even the way they go "Everything changed since Polites," during 'keep your friends close' show tension has been bubbling under the surface ever since people died under Odysseus's command.

Eurylochus does have a voice of his own and it tells us that he cares a lot but he gives up extremely quickly.

In the start of the musical, his first song is literally called "Luck Runs Out", brought to us during a storm he see no hope of defeating, claiming "Captain, we will capsize with thesе waves, our fleet will fail" and "We're taking too much damage to survive!" while everyone is trying to tilt the odds. Even the crew is trying, because they do not offer Eurylochus any backing vocals here, only shouting about the storm.

During Luck Runs Out, the crew song, Eurylochus always uses "We" amd "us" , except in these part, where there are no backing vocals, is just eurylochus:

"Please don't tell me you're about to do what i think you'll do"

"I just don't wanna see another life end You're like the brother I could never do without"

He is worried about himself and the crew but he is deeply worried about Odysseus too. He has far more respect and care for Odysseus than the rest of the crew.

During circe island he was going to admit he opened the wind bag, something the other men under Ody's command clearly wouldn't disclose, cause they have a impersonal relationship with Odysseus.

Speaking of the wind bag, since i'm already rambling, I always interpreted it as a choice for Eury. A choice to trust his captain (who ordered him to always be devout or 'we will all die on this') or his crew (If Eurylochus didn't open the bag another crew member would have, a lot of people were curious about the bag and annoyed Odysseus doesn't want to open it. The crew was not subtle. This was a crew choice.) and Eury chose to trust the crew, not his his friend, just like Odysseus chose not to trust his second in comand, staying awake for days and days instead.

Eury feels guilty for not trusting his captain but Ody still doesn't want to hear him/fully trust him, he dismiss his confession.

Puppeter is the song that highlight Eurylochus diferences from the crew. The crew went in with Circe, Eurylochus stayed outside, more wary or not as tempted, and once he noticed he dodged an incredible danger he chose to run instead of trying to help the man turned into pigs.

When odysseus say he'll stop Circe, I am confident the crew would encourage him, or at the very least, not argue with their captain on this, but Eurylochus is firmly against it, he does not want Odysseus to face this great danger. Is the same feeling of Luck Runs Out, "i can't lose you" but instead of pleading for Odysseus to change his mind, he is firm.

"No we don't

Look at all we've lost and all we've learned

Every single cost is so much more than what we've earned

Think about the men we have left before there are none

Let's just cut our losses, you and I, and let's run"

This is purely Eurylochus, no crew voices to be heard. He loves the crew, but Odysseus is more than his captain, he is an old friend, the most important in the crew. And he needs Ody to run with him.

"I can hear her still, and her voice deceives

What if she can’t be killed?

Will you choose to leave?"

Odysseus admit he doesn't know if Circe is a lost cause, but he still says "I have to try." and Eurylochus took that to heart.

The success on Circe's island seems to have make Eurylochus change his perspective, gaining appreciation for all of Odysseus attempts to keep people alive, even some for the ones that are considered clear failures by the crew. Cause at least Ody tried to not get anyone killed. He failed but he tried.

" When we fought the cyclops, you were quick to hatch a plan!" vs the initial "you relied on wit and people died on it"

The one who starts the direct call back to the lyrics of Luck Runs Out during Mutiny is Perimedes, after stabbing Odysseus.

"How are we supposed to trust you now? Now your time has come, your luck's run out Now, the time has come to shut you down You relied on wit and then we died on it"

This is sang without Eurylochus, who loss to Odysseys after his begging lead to nothing. He is so angry but he genuinely wants to be wrong. He wants to trust his captain.

"Tell me you did not know that would happen

Say you didn't know how that would end

Look me in the eyes and tell me, Captain

That you did not just sacrifice six men?"

Odysseus is doing what Eurylochus taught him, to just "cut our losses and run" but that is unforguivable, because it was never meant to be a lesson. Eurylochus had been lost when he had that belief. Is no wonder he can't argue when Odysseus says he would have done the same. His answer isnt a denial.

"If you want all the power you must carry all the blame!"

And that's when the chanting becomes a consistent part of the song. When Odysseus is reminder that he is the captain, they are not on the same level, his decision is the final one, it put the whole crew in danger.

(There is also one chant of 'eurylochus' when he says "then you have forced my hand" at Odysseus lack of excuse or explanation that feels worth pointing out. As if that is the moment where he and the crew start to share beliefs again)

I fully believe that when Odysseus was stabbed the crew would have let him bleed to death, but Eurylochus was the one who took a stance and bandaged him. He is really angry and he does agree with the crew's need to do something about this, but he doesn't want Odysseus to die, he still has that "You're like the brother I could never do without" stance.

He is lost again. He can't trust his captain, he give up on trying.

But this time, he isn't alone. The crew have given up too. Look at this, they are following his lead.

How much longer must I suffer now? How much longer must I push through doubt? How much longer must I go about My life like this, when people die like this?

vs

How much longer must we suffer now? How much longer must we push through doubt? How much longer must we go about Our lives like this when people die like this? Woah

That's why the "Ody we're never gonna get to make it home. You know it's true" Kills me. Everyone have given up.

The mutiny isn't what Eurylochus wanted. Once the anger pass he is just defeated. He is no captain. He is still loss. He is back to the beginning, he cares about people, he doesn't want to see them die, but he gives up. He is tired he is starving, he can't take it.

He doesn't believe they'll make it home alive, he doesn't want to try.

And yet... He doesn't let Ody die during the mutiny. He cares so much. So when Zeus gives Odysseus the choice to kill himself or the crew, it must really hurt to hear his captain, his friend, chose the crew.

There are no crew chants in Thunder Bringer, not in "captain...?" nor in "...but we will die", that's purely Eurylochus feelings, his friend. In fact, while the crew did obey Ody when he told them to run away from Helios Island, they haven't called him 'captain' since the mutiny, only Eury did.

[randomatthingy]

Elpenor and Perimidies shouldn't have been cut. I don't care if we have to have more than 40 songs (honestly, that's an up-side). There are multiple reasons:

Point 1 - It makes us connect with the crew more. As of now, we don't have that many connections to the crew. Polities die like thirty minutes into the show, and Eurylochus, while I think is highly over-hated, is an antagonist and not the best character in the world. Having more people with us throughout the show at large makes us care about the crew more beyond the basic "They are human. I am human. My morality says I should care for them."

Point 2 - They show more grounded characters. Polities are pretty much what would happen if pure sunshine and a golden retriver had a baby who was raised by cinnamon rolls. Eurylochus, like I said, is a pretty unlikeable character. Elpenor and Perimidies are well...just some men.

Point 3 - It makes losses feel more. If you think, we could have one death for each major encounter. Cyclops = Polities. Poseidon and Circe = Elpenor (Elpenor dies on Circe's island, but we would see him after the men in The Underworld, the majority of which died to Poseidon, tying him to both, and driving home how many people died in Ruthlessness. This would also give us two encounters per verse). Finally, Perimidies and Eurylochus = Zeus (which had two men die would drive home how Odysseus is alone now). This would make it feel like we are experiencing losses at every turn, not something like "OH NO! Not background extra #152!"

Point 4 - The Perimidies depression-sub arc would give us another theme in the show beyond "Should I become monster Rawr rawr rawr?" and maybe add a way for people to relate to him (and make Thunder Bringer hurt more) and given the cut song "Cope With That" we could also have a debate about healthy and non-healthy coping methods, which could tie into the Ruthlessness theme with "should we have the ruthlessness to cut someone we love off of an unhealthy coping mechanism if it's working but detrimental to them and their loved ones as a whole."

Point 5 - This is solely based on Elpenor's only significant event in the source material involves him being drunk, but he could have been some sort of comic relief if we needed any more.

Point 6 - With some scenes with Elpenor and Perimidies, we could get the vibe that the crew as a whole was slowly turning against Odyssey, not just Eurylochus. Right now, the only indication is the end of "Luck Runs Out" and the last chorus of "Different Beast"

Point 7 - It could be a bigger mystery as to who opened to bag, as even before The Thunder Saga a lot of people guessed Eurylochus, but if we had more major named characters in the crew, they could also be suspects.

Point 8 - Perimidies betrayal in Mutiny would hurt even more

Point 9 - 🏳️‍🌈