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recurring-polynya · 3 years ago

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Once again, I am thinking about the dubious claim that people make from time to time that Renji would have gotten better character development in the TYBW arc if Byakuya had died. The thing is, though, that Renji did get excellent character development in this arc, particularly with respect to his relationship to Byakuya, it was just very subtle and I want to talk about it.

So, the first thing I want to point out is that the captain-lieutenant relationships is one of the major themes of the TYBW. A lot of this is sort of weird and awkward, but this is perfect, actually, because captain-lieutenant relationships are, for the most part, weird and clunky and awkward. Take for example, the part that I always make fun of, where the captains are told not to go to bankai, and Hitsugaya, Komamura, Byakuya and Soi Fon immediately go to bankai-- but they all do this on the assumption that they are luring their opponent into a trap to see how this works, and that their lieutenant will somehow ??defeat them anyway?? (well, except Soi Fon who seems to think she can one-shot her Quincy). There’s Sasakibe’s funeral, where we find out that Yamamoto cared far more for him than we ever imagined. Kyouraku returns Nanao’s zanpakutou to her and stands behind her as she defeats an opponent he can't. Iba carries Komamura’s body off of the battlefield as he loses the last of his humanity. Isane struggles to keep her head above her grief because that’s the burden Unohana left her with. Rose avenging Kira. Hitsugaya and Matsumoto fighting and (sort of) dying together. The Zaraki-Yachiru thing. The Mayuri-Nemu thing. Momo and Shinji actually got to have a relatively normal one, which they each deserved, but at least they got to have normal one together. Anyway, that could be an entire essay, but as usual, I only want to talk about Renji and Byakuya.

Renji’s introduction as a character happens in stages. Initially, he sort of appears to be Byakuya’s sidekick-- he's here to do the dirty work during Rukia’s arrest, while Byakuya stands by and calls the shots, but even early on, it’s clear that Renji’s a little hung up on Byakuya. He’s trying to impress him, and gets more embarrassed and self-conscious as things go progressively pear-shaped. When Byakuya finally enters the action, Renji’s thought bubbles reveal that he’s watched Byakuya for a long time, that he knows all his moves. When we get the Renji backstory reveal a few issues later, we learn that Renji’s goal is to defeat Byakuya, which he seems to feel is necessary to seeing Rukia again, even though there has never been any sort of causal link revealed between these two things. Don’t get me wrong, if Young Academy Renji had tried to continue to be friends with Rukia, I think Byakuya would have kicked him out on his ass, but it’s clear that a lot of Renji’s hang-ups are internal-- he doesn’t want to face Rukia again until he can stand against Byakuya. I think the origin of this is that he simply wants what’s best for Rukia, and he can’t stomach the idea of asking her to leave her rich, noble family for him, unless, of course, he’s somehow better than Byakuya in some dimension, and the only thing Renji’s ever considered himself good at is fighting.

Even more interesting is that he’s chosen to go about this by... studying the man’s every move and becoming his lieutenant. But for as much energy as Renji has put into learning Byakuya’s favorite combat moves, he doesn’t actually know anything about him as a person. He’s shocked when Rukia predicts that Byakuya won’t lift a finger to help her, and then horrified when this actually comes to pass. A few chapters later, as he’s running Hinamori through, Aizen comments that “Adoration is the state furthest from understanding.” I would probably classify Renji’s feelings towards Byakuya more as admiration or idolization, rather than adoration, but I think this statement is also very true of Renji and Byakuya’s relationship. Unlike poor Momo, Renji gets a little more time and opportunity to do something with this information. With a little Ichigo-forced soul searching, he realizes that he’s not going to come out the hero of this story no matter what, but if he doesn’t do something, Rukia’s not going to come out of this story at all, and even if he’s not really ready, he’s spent 40 years trying to figure out how to beat Kuchiki Byakuya, let’s hope all that was good for something.

The Byakuya-Renji fight has no direct impact on the events of the Soul Society Arc. It makes Byakuya show up to Rukia’s execution 5 minutes late and without his scarf. Renji gets healed, so it really doesn’t matter all that much to him, either. You could argue that they both wasted a bunch of energy (that they could have used to fight Aizen later) but it’s primarily a character-driven moment of them both drawing lines in the sand about where they stand, vis a vis Rukia. Byakuya wins this fight, and he wins it handily, but he’s wrong, as he comes to realize a few issues later, when Ichigo kicks his ass and tells him he’s a bad brother, a lesson that Byakuya will take to heart for the rest of the manga. Byakuya claims that the difference between Renji and himself is class, but the real difference between is the heart, and in the long run, Renji is the real victor of this fight.

The hospital scene is an interesting footnote to this. Byakuya defeated Renji, but Byakuya was the asshole and everyone knows it. There’s an expectation that perhaps Renji will quit or perhaps Renji will give him an earful and perhaps even Rukia will choose to leave the family, either to go to the Living World or to be with Renji (and Byakuya would deserve this), but instead, both Renji and Rukia give Byakuya another chance, which is not, I think, a place Renji ever expected to be.

Rukia and Byakuya building up a sibling relationship after this is fairly straightforward (although I’m sure it had its weird moments), but Byakuya and Renji now have this profoundly awkward relationship where Byakuya is obviously in charge, but he sort of depends on Renji as a personal compass because he’s shit at dealing with people and he doesn’t want to screw stuff up with Rukia again. Take for example, the part of the Hueco Mundo arc where Orihime is kidnapped and Rukia and Renji desert their posts to come help rescue her. Kubo takes to the panel-space to tell us that Byakuya has tacitly approved this. As a clan head and a captain, a person who is entrenched in the hierarchy of Soul Society, Byakuya couldn’t possibly go to Hueco Mundo-- but he can turn a blind eye while his sister and lieutenant scurry out through the Kuchiki family senkaimon. Renji, for his part, tried to go to Hueco Mundo through official channels and got shot down. We don’t know what Renji would have done if Byakuya had explicitly forbidden him from going, but it doesn’t matter-- Byakuya enabled Renji to follow his heart here, because Byakuya can’t. Rukia would have gone to Hueco Mundo regardless. She cares about Byakuya, but she doesn’t depend on him for validation the way Renji does.

I said this was going to be about the TYBW, so let’s get to that. Early in the arc, we’re shown several scenes where it’s clear that Byakuya respects and values Renji as a lieutenant, but he’s also pretty damn patronizing to him. Renji is the first one to engage As Nodt, and when Byakuya shows up, he acts surprised that Renji hasn’t taken him out yet, but then proceeds to take over the fight (real, “stand back, fives, an eleven has arrived” energy). After Byakuya then loses his bankai like a doofus, Renji wants to take point so that Byakuya can figure out As Nodt’s attack and Byakuya won’t let him... and then proceeds to get thrashed.

This has to be one of the most emotionally charged fights in Bleach. Byakuya is losing, and Renji jumps in, absolutely incensed that As Nodt would use Senbonzakura against Byakuya. Renji isn’t doing great, but he’s not doing terrible when Byakuya gets up and tries to help Renji, even though he’s a big bloody mess. As Nodt reacts by shredding Byakuya into chunks, and Renji just loses it, and if Mask de Masculine hadn’t shown up and kicked him halfway across the Seireitei, I daresay Renji would have killed himself trying to take down As Nodt.

This is where I usually make the point that if Byakuya had died to here, it would have broken Renji into little pieces, but that’s not today’s essay. Instead, everyone goes to the Royal Realm, and by virtue of the fact that Byakuya is injured worse than everyone else, Renji has to go forward without him or his approval.

In typical Renji fashion, the thing that motivates Renji here is not glory or heroism, but the desire to accompany Ichigo, the need to be with his friends in their times of trial. In fact his companionship here is absolutely essential-- at Hikifune’s, Ichigo expresses deep doubts that he’s doing the right thing, and Renji reminds himself that if he wants to protect others, he has to take care of himself first.

At Nimaiya’s however, Renji and Ichigo are split up because they must follow their own paths. The other extremely interesting thing that happens here is that Renji’s sword is reforged. Byakuya shattered one of Hihio Zabimaru’s joints the very first time Renji used them in combat. Renji brushed it off at the time, saying that he could get by without it. Even though Byakuya has long been his motivating force and his mentor, he’s also been held back by his connection to him. And at this point, it’s gone.

I really wish we got to see where Renji and Rukia meet up again, but we don’t. Unlike with Ichigo, though, Rukia doesn’t seem to need anything from Renji. They travel together, fight together as equals, wear matching outfits, like you do. Oh. Wait. After all this time, in the 493 chapters between Needless Emotions and Blue Stripes, Renji can finally see himself as an equal to Rukia. They get. bankai. Together.

I want to emphasize that it’s not really anything about Rukia herself that allowed Renji to make bankai, it’s the fact that he’s finally managed to move past the feeling that he’s not enough. Defeating Byakuya would not actually have solved this problem, and having Byakuya dying in front of him wouldn’t have either. Renji gets criticized for losing a lot of his fights, but that’s such a key to his character. He’s not always the strongest, he doesn’t always win, but he keeps fighting for what he cares about. He struggles with his need for approval, for external validation, but Renji is at his best when he doesn’t have time to think about that, when he’s just fighting by his friends’ sides against impossible odds, doing what he knows in his heart is right.

I think people tend to make a little more than is strictly necessary of the line where he tells Mask that he’s “a villain”, I think he’s most just making fun of Mask’s own self-aggrandizement. On another level, though, this is just Renji being at ease with himself. Byakuya typically enters a fight bloviating about the honor of Soul Society and “how dare you raise your sword against me, the 28th Head of the Kuchiki” and even Ikkaku had the whole deal about telling people your name before you kill them, but Renji is more like “you beat up my friends, so I’m gonna break your face,” like there’s no ego in it, just you’re there, and he’s there, and then you’re lying on the ground and he’s taking a nap somewhere. This is so different than the insecure, posturing young man he was at the start of this series and I love this growth for him.

Even after he eventually meets up with Byakuya again, something has changed about their dynamic. The group gets split up and rejoined two or three times, and Renji and Rukia always stay together while Byakuya ends up fighting alongside others, Hisagi and later Hitsugaya and Zaraki. This is cemented in their last scene together, where Rukia and Renji try to stay with Byakuya and he sends them off to fight with Ichigo by saying “your help is not needed here.” In some ways, it’s an echo of Byakuya sending them off to Hueco Mundo, but in other ways, it’s acknowledging that they are their own people, not just an extension of him.

Hitsugaya follows it up with this:

There’s more here than meets the eye, though-- Byakuya and Renji have maintained a pretty strict superior-subordinate relationship, because that’s the easiest way for them to make sense of the world, but the fact is, they do care about each other and are important to one another.

I know there would be a certain narrative satisfaction in seeing Renji make captain at the end-- he’s one of the hardest working people in Bleach, and it frankly seems weird to see Iba get the haori when he doesn’t. But Renji has never wanted to be a captain. Renji becoming captain would, in some ways, be a failure. He spends years pre-canon chasing rank and prestige because that’s what he thinks will make him worthy, and it didn’t. Instead, he found worth in being himself, in loving his friends and being there for them, in learning things from Byakuya and teaching him things in return. Renji doesn’t need to be Byakuya’s lieutenant anymore, he just does it because he likes it. It makes him happy. What better character development is there than that?

#renji abarai #byakuya kuchiki #tybwa #god i love to get up on a saturday and write essays about renji's character development #tldr: renji checks off all the gotei career milestones *except* making captain and then proceeds to lean in to his true calling: malewife #we stan legends only

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luulapants · 4 years ago

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Teen Wolf and Perceptions of Character Age

There is a certain discussion that I find myself having (in different variations) over and over again with other Teen Wolf fans: how the age of the actors, compared to the age of the characters, affected the way we perceive and empathize with those characters. Studios have good reasons for not using actual underage kids in their shows - work hour restrictions, school arrangements, limits on racy/sexy scenes - but using adults in a show depicting younger teenagers drastically changes how we interpret their stories.

It’s easy to brush off with some of them, to think, “Oh, well it was a 19-year-old playing a 16-year-old. Not that big a difference.” But I’m going to challenge that notion with a few examples:

Erica Reyes:

Gage Golightly was about 19 when she played 15-year-old Erica. Erica was unpopular, struggled with epilepsy and medication side-effects. She was offered the bite, given the opportunity to make the life-altering decision to become a werewolf. She had no support in making that choice, and the consequences were fatal.

Remember how bad you felt for Erica when she and Boyd were being shot full of arrows, begging Allison to stop hurting them? Well, now imagine that scene with Gage Golightly as she actually looked at age 15-16:

Look at that picture. That is a child. Probably a child that thinks she’s an adult (I know I fucking thought so at that age) but a child nonetheless. Imagine that face being offered the bite. Trying to kiss Derek. Having the shit beat out of her as “training.” Being tortured by Gerard. Being killed by Kali.

Isaac Lahey:

Daniel Sharman was 25 when he played Isaac, who was 15-16 in S2.

Again, we had some really harrowing, emotionally difficult scenes with him. His father abused him. He was offered the bite. Derek beat him as part of their “training.” Chris sent him, alone, into an arms deal with the Japanese mafia. His girlfriend was murdered. Now, I couldn’t even find a picture of Daniel at 15 or 16, but here he is at 17:

How does picturing that face change Isaac’s scenes? His whole story arc?

Scott McCall:

This is a big one for me. Tyler Posey was only 20 years old when he played 16-year-old Scott, but the difference still made a stark contrast in the audience’s expectation of him as the hero of the show. I constantly see people wondering why he didn’t make better decisions, why his priorities weren’t right or why he reacted poorly in dire circumstances.

This is the (admittedly youthful) face that we see going through all of Scott’s S1 challenges. He gets attacked by a monster, turned into a monster himself, has his life threatened by multiple adults, is put into multiple deadly situations within the span of a few months, and is thrust into a position of leadership as the protector and savior of Beacon Hills.

Here is Tyler Posey at 15 (couldn’t find a great 16 pic):

I’ll admit that he was one of the more youthful looking actors in the early seasons. But by season 6, where he is supposed to be 18 (still younger than S1 Posey) but Tyler Posey was 26? When Scott was leading an army and clawing his own eyes out?

What is my point?

My point is NOT that we need to re-interpret the entire story in the context of them being children. Because, clearly, the writers didn’t treat them like real children either. And that’s part of the problem. TV shows present us with teenage characters that often look, act, and feel like adults. When it’s convenient for the plot, of course. We get glimpses of immaturity when that’s convenient, too.

Having older actors gives writers permission, in a way, to write about children in situations that we, in reality, would never want to see a child in. Who would be able to stomach watching a 16-year-old Daniel Sharman being beaten? Or 15-year-old Gage Golightly being shot full of arrows? The show suddenly goes from exciting and suspenseful to outright horrifying.

Maturity-wise, how different did 18-year-old Lydia Martin feel from 24-year-old Jordan Parrish? Not very. So when you see part of fandom freaking out that it was an inappropriate and predatory relationship and another part of fandom like “Are you joking? No, it just... wasn’t,” it’s not necessarily because that second part of fandom would actually see that sort of relationship in real life and think it’s 100% okay. It’s because Lydia Martin wasn’t portrayed as an 18-year-old physically, emotionally, or intellectually. Holland Roden was 30 years old by season 5. They just put her in a high school.

Similarly, there are people who think Sterek is an inappropriate ship. And I agree that it would be VERY creepy for these two to date:

But that’s not what we saw. Dylan O’Brien was 20. Tyler Hoechlin was 23.

Some people have very clear mental pictures of what teenagers look and act like. When watching shows like this, they will project age-appropriate thoughts and expectations onto those characters. Others don’t have that clear picture. When you are that age, you don’t think of yourself as being young, and if you’re not around people that age afterward, you probably won’t develop a clear sense of what a 16-year-old is or is not. For those people, they’ll take these depictions at face value: adult-like people walking around a high school. It produces two very different watching experiences.

So when one person says Derek is a horrible monster for abusing children in Season 2 and another says that he was just training his army to prepare them for the real danger... that’s what that is. It’s not that one is right and the other is wrong. The first person was watching an adult beat children. The second person was watching a 24-year-old, pretending to be 20-mumblety-something or whatever the fuck Derek was, giving tough-love training to three people who, by function of appearance and how they were written, were his age and older.

(Side note: Derek was actually playing someone his own age, but only retroactively. Originally, his character was meant to be “a few years older” than Scott and Stiles but that was retconned due to the Kate Argent plotline.)

Oh and here’s Shelley Hennig at 17 vs 27 and playing 17:

Here are some who I couldn’t find pictures of at younger ages, but whose age gaps from their characters are significant:

Sinqua Walls was 26 when he played Boyd, about a decade too old. There’s a whole mess of complicated implications with perceptions of black boys being perceived as “looking older” in that casting.

Crystal Reed was also 26 when she played 17-year-old Allison Argent, and was 29 by the time she left the show. Allison was still 17.

Keahu Kahuanui was 25 when he played Danny, who was 15-17.

Arden Cho was 29 when she started playing 16-year-old Kira.

Colton Haynes was 23 while playing Jackson, who was 16 or 17.

It is interesting that, starting in Season 4, they began hiring actors and actresses a little bit closer to their characters’ ages. Someone else write a meta on that, plz.

#teen wolf #teen wolf meta #erica reyes #isaac lahey #scott mccall #age gap ships #tv writing

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sunmoontruth-stiles · 4 years ago

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Ok this is gonna be long. I’ve literally been slowly working on this for… too long. I’m just in a mood to have a long discussion about ships. I’ll be looking at canon and not, so bare with me. I don’t ship all of these personally. I’m mostly just picking the most popular ones. I chose to leave out a few that I just don’t want to talk about. I tried to keep this loosely chronological, but that quickly went to hell. None of this is meant to be hate towards anyone’s ship, just my personal opinions on each of them.

Canon:

Scott x Allison: True Classic

Scallison is so sweet as it is truly the epitome of young love. Romeo and Juliet, except Romeo is even more of an idiot and Juliet is a badass who dies for a cause. They’re moral and ethical codes are both highly valued by themselves, even if they don’t align with others very often. They loved with everything they had. They were beautiful. We’re they soulmates in the end, or just the first love who will always hold a special place in your heart? Who knows, but I’ll always love these immature kids who thought their love could change everything.

Stiles x Lydia: The Long Awaited

Stydia is as slow burn as you can get. Unfortunately their actual getting together was slightly rushed in my opinion. They didn’t have time to find their own as a couple because Stiles just wasn’t in the show enough at that point. I know the reasons behind it, but it did leave this couple at an awkward stage of official-but-not-shown. The idea that Stiles loved her as a kid, immature and infatuated, and he saw her for who she really was, will always be cute. Then they grew, changed, became friends, and found other people. Them finding each other later on, having real love that’s developed slowly, is a wonderful arc. Though, a part of me will always believe they should have pursued other story lines in the wake of Stiles’ absence from the plot. They’re finally together! …but we don’t get to see it.

Jackson x Lydia: The Image

Oh Jackson and Lydia. Honestly, I love them. Their connection at a time in their lives when they couldn’t open up to anyone else, just hits me right in the feels. I mean, god that HUG. You know the one. Always brings me to tears. I’m so sad their relationship was almost entirely depicted during Jackson’s kanima time when he couldn’t think nor truly act for himself. Those small moments of scared vulnerability when he wanted to protect her from himself… I’ll miss these two. They deserved to find other people and remain life-long friends. I loved their moment in the last episode. I wish they’d gotten to see each other grow. Also they had such bixbi solidarity vibes, and I’ll die on that hill.

Scott x Lydia: Leaders

Ok, I’m gonna be honest here. I ship it. The power couple they would have been?? Also them coming together after they lost Allison would have actually made sense. A part of me kinda wishes the writers had moved on from Stydia as a romantic relationship and leaned into them growing as friends and Stiles moving on from his childhood crush. Scott and Lydia actually would have had good chemistry. They were both very headstrong heroic types, but Lydia would have balanced Scott out well intellectually. They had the history, and I think it could had worked if they wrote it right. Plus, Scott and Lydia would have been a better endgame that Scalia.

Scott x Kira: New Beginnings

These two were adorable. Kira was a badass, don’t get me wrong, but she let herself be soft in a way Allison was always afraid to. This couple was truly Baby. Absolute dorks. I can definitely see the lasting quality between the two of them. They saw things very similarly, and had a ton in common. I do think Kira deserves more characterization outside of their relationship, like more of her friendship with Malia. Overall, her departure from the show will always be sad to me. It was bad writing. Scott was over her far too quickly.

Aiden x Lydia: Pretty People Herd

I honestly didn’t see much between these two other than mutual attraction. The best thing to come out of this relationship was Lydia’s line, “You’re not just a bad boy, Aiden. You’re a bad guy. And I don’t want to be with the bad guys.” Good character development moment.

Ethan x Danny: Step to Redemption

Danny really was the thing that made Ethan look outside of the pack for what he really wanted out of life. They had a few cute scenes. Gotta love Danny’s final remarks, “Dude, it’s Beacon Hills.”

Allison x Isaac: Unexpected Rebound

Ok, I like these two. Isaac could match Allison’s snark in a way Scott couldn’t. They both fought the progression of the relationship slightly. They didn’t expect to fall for each other. They were less willing to let someone in close. I’d love to have seen more… but unfortunately their time was limited. On a side note, sometimes their relationship did feel like ‘we both are in love with the same guy, let’s cope with each other’, but I find that completely valid. I’ll talk about Scallisaac later though.

Stiles x Malia: Anchors

Ok but, them <3 I love what they did for each other. Stiles was able to help Malia connect to her humanity and other people. He never tried to isolate her in their relationship and encouraged her growth. Malia offered Stiles the emotional support he never asked for. She defended him, fought for him, and loved him fiercely. Stiles needed that so much after season 3. I think they were a love that wasn’t meant to last, but the impact of it was forever. I wish we’d gotten to see a real end for them where they agreed that they needed to grow as individuals but would always still care.

Liam x Hayden: Three’s a Pattern

These two’s characterization stopped whenever they had storylines together. Their relationship was built on Scallison references. Hayden’s character could have been interesting, but they never really gave her a moment to shine. Liam has the worst plots when they revolved around her. Cute couple, poor writing.

Derek x Braeden: Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girl Boss

Derek deserves to be happy so much. Kate and Jennifer were just... jeez. Him and Braeden were cute and deserved more screen time. I think her intensity allowed for Derek to let go of control a bit more comfortably. Let Derek Be Soft. Anyway, love them.

Corey x Mason: Gotta Have That Rep TM

These two could have been cute if they were shown for more than two seconds at a time. I highkey forget Corey even existed all the time. Kinda just felt like a relationship to fill TW’s gay quota.

Jackson x Ethan: The Callback

Honestly? Loved them. Loved the chemistry. Loved the dynamic. Best twist. I know it was probably written in like that because Colton came out during his time away from the show, but it absolutely fit his character. Jethan is top tier.

Melissa x Chris: BAMF Parent Duo

Ok, so like, Melissa deserved this plot. She deserved someone to care about her. However... what the hell? Chris? In canon, his wife died like 2-ish years prior? His daughter died 1 year prior?? Is Chris really in a position to pursue a new relationship?? Also, like, Scott and Allison dated and loved each other up to her death. Kinda weird to have their parents hook up. I don’t hate it, but I don’t ship it…?

Scott x Malia: Lead up? What’s lead up?

These two came out of nowhere I stg. Like, 6B really tried to tell us this was something that had been slowly developing in the background? Also, I understand that they are their own people, adults, and completely in charge of their own romantic pursuits: but did Scott seriously never call Stiles? Like, Malia wasn’t just his first girlfriend. She was his first. Like, dude that’s your best friend?? Not even a head’s up? No, ‘hey would this bother you?’ Oof. Plus Malia was way too chaotic for Scott. She existed in gray morality that always prioritized her immediate circle, and Scott was a very black/white type of heroism. I just didn’t feel like they fit.

Non-Canon:

Scott x Stiles: Childhood Best Friends

Ya, sorry, I don’t ship Sciles at all. I get it. Like, I totally understand the ship, and I mean no judgment at all. I just see them as friends. I really value good male friendships in media because I feel like we don’t get enough, and I always liked these two.

Stiles x Derek: Enemies to Lovers. 100k. Angst. Hurt/Comfort.

God these two really are what fanfiction was made for. I could write a much longer discussion about Sterek, and I probably will eventually. I’ll try to keep this brief. These two weren’t always on the same side, but their approach was the same. They were very similar at their core. Plus, wow the chemistry. This should have been canon. Jeff’s a coward.

Allison x Lydia: Powerful.

This ship is so great. They really had a great dynamic, and a romantic plot would have easily fit the established narrative. Lydia’s confidence in herself and Allison’s confidence in her own abilities crossing over to each other because that’s what the other lacked? Iconic.

Danny x Jackson: He Gets Him

Danny really saw Jackson for everything he was and still cared. I wished we’d gotten to see more of them. I want more background with Jackson’s eventual coming out and his friendship with Danny. Like, they ended up dating the same guy. What did Ethan have to say about that??

Stiles x Jackson: Bastards

Ok these two had a super fun dynamic. The asshole-energy between them was, great. The snark was always so entertaining.

Melissa x Noah: Family

How were these two not endgame? Their sons were practically brothers already. They had amazing chemistry. The flirting? Not to mention, their timeline would have made way more sense. Missed opportunity.

Chris x Peter: The Opposite of Love is Indifference, Not Hate

Ok so like, this was definitely one of those ships that I had absolutely no knowledge of before I was pretty into the fandom. Like, this was not something I would have guessed just after watching the show. That being said; my god the chaos alone…

Scott x Isaac: The Disaster Duo

Okay ya I love these two. Two dumb asses who act like idiot puppies. Such a fun dynamic. Plus?? Chemistry??? Hellooo

Scott x Allison x Isaac: Three Heads Are Better Than One

This ship is definitely one of my personal favorites. I very rarely poly-ship. I just feel like most of them are just love triangles with an ‘easy solution’, when two of them have no real connection. That is so not the case here. I feel like all of them have such great chemistry with each other. They also have a great dynamic as a group. Season 3A was really just Scallisaac rights.

Stiles x Isaac: I Hate You, jk…Not Really

Ok I loved their banter, but I really just don’t see this ship. Idk, I don’t personally ship it. Would have loved to see their friendship develop more tho.

Erica x Allison: Duo that would stab you with a stiletto

I don’t ship it, but I do wish we’d seen them become friends. I feel like they had a very artificial ‘girls fighting over a boy’ dynamic? They could have been such a badass duo.

Stiles x Erica: Batman x Catwoman

Ok I’m not sure exactly how to express my feelings for these two so bare with me. OMG I love their dynamic so much, and they are sooo cute. Their energy? Amazing. Chemistry? Great. History? It’s there and has so much potential. 10/10. Love them. But, no, I don’t ship it lol. Just really love their friendship, but with the underlying history of crushes.

Boyd x Erica: Was This Not Canon?

How can anyone not love Berica? Ugh they are adorable. These two deserved so much better.

Boyd x Cora: Survivors

Honestly I don’t really see it? Like they definitely had a connection, but it never felt romantic. I really feel like they just had to lean on each other and bond to make it through captivity, and it just lasted.

Boyd x Erica x Cora: The Pack

I literally learned this was a ship a couple days ago. Similar feelings towards this as Bora, but with the added hesitancy of we never actually saw Erica and Cora interact.

Cora x Stiles: Slow Build Up

These two were clearing being lined up to be a thing before Cora ended up leaving. I can’t say I’m disappointed they never happened. Kinda felt like they just wanted to straight-code Sterek.

Cora x Lydia: Mean Lesbians

Not much interaction to actually go off of, but yes I 100% support. They have very different approaches to problems, which is fun. Very ‘opposites attract’.

Malia x Kira: “Maybe you could date the coyote?”

Another one of my favorites!! They really complimented each other. Also, how full circle would they have been? They were introduced in back-to-back episodes. Malia stalking her as a coyote? The line from Kira’s dad about dating it? It would have been so funny if that ended up happening.

Malia x Lydia: Beauty and the Beast, but make it wlw

These two were fun. I liked their friendship, but I don’t really ship it. Though, rip Stiles that would have been hilarious.

Parrish x Lydia: The Cop and The Minor

Must I say more? Like, Parrish’s character, so sweet and big rule follower, did not make sense for what went down with Lydia. I love Parrish, but the dynamic just felt off. It didn’t feel consistent with the rest of his characterization.

Parrish x Stiles: The Cop and The Minor, but gay?

Ok, same reasoning as above, but also they had absolutely no connection romantically.

Scott x Theo / Stiles x Theo: Sometimes The Villain is Hot

Ok I’ve put these together because I have the same opinion for both. I don’t ship it. Neither had any rebuilding of trust, and Theo really hurt both of them. I just don’t really think they work.

Mason x Liam: Sciles Puppy Pack Edition

Similar to my feeling about Sciles, I just don’t ship these two. They had a good friendship, from the little we saw of it.

Theo x Liam: Anchors 2: Electric Boogaloo

Another personal favorite! I really don’t even understand why this didn’t go canon?? The elevator scene was just, so intense. They helped each other grow in 6B, and I really loved their dynamic. They should have hooked up.

Honorable Mention?:

Parrish x Laura: What’s canon?

I’ve seen this in fanfic a lot, and I actually really like it lol. I thought I’d add it in here because I do love the creativity of fandoms.

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kalinara · 4 years ago

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So, recently I found myself thinking about Teen Wolf, specifically the MTV show from the early 2010s. And I’m reminded about how fascinated I was by the Argent family in the first three seasons of the show.

I loved the Argent family for the same reason I loved the Lightwood family in Shadowhunters. In a lot of ways, I think they’re very similar. Both families represent people who are raised from birth in a system in which they believe they are righteous warriors, protecting innocent people from horrible monsters, while being blind to their own prejudices and committing some truly heinous acts in the service of their “cause”.

There are differences of course. The Argents are not part of a greater society, and do not have institutionalized power over the Hales or presumably other werewolf families (though they’re certainly good at exploiting human organizations and legal systems). The Argents are also very clearly villains, while the Lightwoods are sometimes adversarial but contrasted with more extremist villains like Valentine.

But both families represent a theme that I find fascinating: the way that growing up in an isolated culture of violence, hate and extremism can warp an individual and the ways that they might overcome it or not.

Honestly, Teen Wolf as a show was always more complex and layered than I think it’s given credit for. It didn’t always deliver on what it was trying to say, but there were a lot of interesting ideas.

So anyway, the Argents fascinated me from day one, because there were some very interesting layers. We had Kate, and later Gerard, who were the complete monsters. We had Chris and Victoria as more noble demons. And then we had Allison, who was the complete innocent in all of this.

And actually, it’s the fact that Allison WAS innocent that got my attention. Because that says something really interesting about Chris and Victoria. We know, at least in retrospect, that the Argent family are fanatics who raise their hunters very young. The little that the show told us about Chris and Kate’s upbringing is pretty horrifying. Gerard was raising weapons, not children. We can probably assume Victoria’s upbringing was similar.

(At least going by her death: she’d clearly bought into the Argent mindset by that point, even though she’d met at least one non-malevolent werewolf at that point.)

Allison was clearly taught skills useful for the hunt: marksmanship, gymnastics, et cetera. But they never told her about werewolves. They never told her about what they did. And until Kate’s death, they’d had no contact with Gerard. In their very flawed way, I think they were genuinely trying to protect their daughter and give her something better than they knew.

A lot of this didn’t become clear until Gerard’s arrival. Before Gerard’s arrival, it was easy to see the Argent family as a group of fallen Knight Templars. They’re extremists, but ones with a cause that might, once upon a time, been worthwhile (at least when we look at monsters like Peter Hale) and still possessing a remnant of a code of honor. Kate was portrayed as the outlier, based on Chris’s disgust at her deeds, and the willingness of Victoria and Chris to leave Scott alone at the end of the first season.

But then, in season 2, we meet Gerard. And it becomes clear that Chris and Victoria, with their antiquated code of honor, are the actual outliers, at least in the modern Argent family.

This doesn’t mean that Chris and Victoria are good people at this point. They’re not. They still hunt. They were still complicit in Gerard’s actions. But there are clear lines drawn here.

I remember being really surprised when Chris pulled the gun on Scott at the beginning of season 2. It seemed like a direct contradiction to his and Victoria’s resigned acceptance at the end of season 1. But then it makes more sense when we see Gerard’s arrival at Kate’s funeral. Chris and Victoria were probably never going to be happy with their daughter dating a werewolf, but if they truly hated the boy, they’d have just told Gerard what he was. Instead, they spend most of that hilariously awkward family dinner lying through their teeth.

I think Victoria often gets the shaft when folks discuss the Argent family. She seems to get labeled as the same kind of monster as Kate and Gerard, while Chris is recognized as a more complex character. I don’t think that’s fair. For the most part, Chris and Victoria are a united team, working on the same page. They both had the same potential to turn on Gerard and become a reluctant ally to Scott and the team. It’s just that Victoria went one way, succumbing to fear and desperation, choosing to sacrifice Scott to save Allison, and it doomed her.

Chris went the other, and he became an ally. I hesitate to call his arc a redemption arc, at least at this point, because I'm not sure I think Chris is capable of true remorse for his past decisions. He’s not really wired like that. He can recognize that the Argent code was flawed, and certainly that Gerard and Kate crossed the line, but I’m not sure he could ever really acknowledge how cruelly he treated Scott or the other victims of the hunt.

To be fair, I’ve only seen bits and pieces of the series after season 3, so it’s possible that I’m wrong about that.

So I don’t think Chris has a redemption arc, per se. But he does actively choose to become better. Mostly because of Allison. Because as terrible a father as he can be sometimes (and the Argents were TERRIBLE parents), he does love her and he wants to become the person his daughter wants him to be. And we see that best of all in that moment when Allison rewrites the code. CHRIS may not be truly redeemable, per se, but the family can.

At least until Allison’s death.

I stopped watching the show regularly after they killed Allison. It’s not that I disliked the other characters. They were great. Kira and Scott are adorable. Derek was slowly starting to turn into a character that didn’t annoy the shit out of me. I love what I’ve seen of Malia and Lydia’s development.

But my investment was in the Argent storyline, and that really died with Allison. Chris was still around, and I was glad to see that because he’s still my favorite, and he continued to be a willing and ready ally to Scott, which makes me happy. But he’s basically lost his narrative significance. There’s no Argent clan to be redeemed anymore, just one broken soldier with a tangential involvement in Scott’s adventures, who gets an unexpected happy ending with Scott’s mother. (which is an amazing IDEA, but as others have mentioned, there're a lot of missed opportunities with that set up.)

It’s a good, fun show, that I will sit down and finish in full one day. But I’ll always regret the loss of my favorite element. Oh well. There’s always fanfic. Assuming I can wade through the 16 billion Stiles and Sterek fics to find it. :-D

#teen wolf #chris argent #allison argent #gerard argent #i would kill for some good argent fic recs #that aren't 'petopher'#no offense to the fans but that one does not work for me

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ramblings-of-a-mad-cat · 3 years ago

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(sees another fandom that I can ask you about and cheers) Orphan Black! Thoughts? I don't know Dr Who but Tatiana is one of my favorite actors period.

Anon you are so sweet! I'm always happy to chat about fandoms and characters and whatnot, and I will never not appreciate the majesty of Tatiana's acting. That is one of the greatest parts of the show hands down.

Orphan Black, to me, is a show that had incredible potential, but didn't really live up to the excitement it created. (Loooong post ahead.)

The thing is, Orphan Black builds a chilling mystery and background, the world it gradually creates as it goes for about the first two seasons, got be very invested and made me wonder a lot about where it was going to go and what the answers were. The setup is brilliant, right from the start with that iconic cold open of Beth's suicide. The unknown is what really helped this show get as thrilling as it was, because the actual answers behind the unknown were kind of hit and miss, and it seemed like far too often, the show just wasn't interested in telling it's story. Hijinks where the clones impersonate each other in slice of life events? That's fun at first and it really works well as they're still getting to know each other. But after a while, it gets tedious, and it seems like the show would rather fuck around and have dance parties (seriously, that scene was such a #BigLippedAlligatorMoment) than focus on the story and the threat that the sisters are facing. Virtually all of Allison's plotlines are like this, they feel like they belong in a different show, and for some reason the writers insisted on giving her one of these storylines like, every season. After Allison passively murders her own friend out of suspecting that she's spying on her, I just don't feel like an arc about her running for some PTA office position even matters. It doesn't feel right.

Speaking of that, here's another example: Donnie. Why did the end of the first season suggest that he was this secret mastermind working for Leekie? The whole idea just deflates in Season 2 and doesn't really go anywhere. He just goes back to being the bumbling sweetheart he was before. Why even have him be the spy? Maybe it should have been Ainsley. Do you want to know the exact moment that I think Orphan Black went wrong? Like, the specific scene? When Leekie was killed off. The character who had thus far been the Big Bad, gets taken out in the stupidest possible way, a literal accident on Donnie's part, and it's even played for laughs. After that point, the show really struggled to regain it's footing, though I don't think it completely went off the rails until about Season 4, and it was still generally hit or miss. Like, some stuff was really good. The introduction of the Castor clones, the development of Rachel's character (I'll get to her, trust me.) and the reveal of Kendall Malone. But it seemed like so much else was just forgotten or otherwise not resolved. Whatever happened to Cal? Sure, the show wanted to focus on the sisters...but Kira deserves to know her father if she wants to. That's just one example. It's a crying shame because this show is sometimes incredible. The metaphor that I always use for situations like this, is a card game. The show has all the right cards in its hand, they're just not being played.

The two strongest characters, at least to me, were Rachel and Helena. One of these characters was superbly written and went through a devastating arc. The other was Helena. We need to talk about her. In Season 1, she really cemented herself as a memorable presence with her trademark accent, her scars, her whole damn personality (again, hats off to Tatiana) and of course, that iconic screechy theme music that accompanied her. Which at first made us jump, but eventually made us cheer. I adored Helena, and I loved the development of her relationship with Sarah. Who went from shooting her in Season 1, to being deadset on rescuring her in Season 3, being furious with Siobhan for betraying her. (This is unrelated but Siobhan has the same " twist villain fakeout" at the end of Season 1 that Donnie does, and it's quite frustrating.) And yet, I swear, the writers just didn't know what to do with Helena half the time. They put her on a bus for long stretches, including one point where she just up and leaves Allison's house in Season 4, for no given reason. And the characters just kind of...don't care. The same thing happens when she gets arrested. No one cares to try and find Helena, even though she's unstable and often a danger to those around her. Even though she's by herself with no real ability to function in society. Even though she's pregnant. There is no excuse for this, and no Sarah, that "I'm sorry, I avoided you" scene in Season 5 is not going to cut it. It's such an afterthought.

I'm being rather critical, but I hope you can tell that this is from a point of passion. I genuinely enjoyed this show and getting to watch it. Just that sometimes it didn't feel like the show cared that I was watching. However, this was not true whenever Rachel was onscreen. Look, I'm a Merula Snyde stan, so you can probably already guess how I feel about Rachel. Despite her crimes, despite her constant slipping back the dark side, I felt so bad for Rachel at the end of it all. That scene with Kira really sums it up. "Who hurt you?" "All of them." And no scene is more intense than when she stabs out the eye cam. Like, I'm sorry, I pitied Rachel pretty much from Season 2 on. Her parents were horrible to her, and I'm supposed to think Ethan is the good guy here? He kills himself in front of his own daughter, telling her that she doesn't deserve him. And then Sarah shoots a pencil through her eye, causing brain damage and requiring a long recovery. I'm not saying that Sarah was wrong to do what she did, just that if I were in her shoes, I'd still feel a degree of guilt for Rachel's condition. In the end, I'm devastated that she was barred from Clone Club, when she made the right decision at the point it mattered. But there's just too much history there, and Sarah won't ever forgive her. (Though again, I do feel as though there's blame to share.) Rachel is my favorite character and I never expected her to be. But she's just so complex. Side note: "Enjoy your oophorectomy" is so damn quotable. I don't know why but I love that line.

So, Rachel's my favorite. Who's my least favorite? It might surprise you. It's Delphine. I'm sorry, but I just...I couldn't get on board with C*phine. Not after Season 3. I was waiting for the point that the show would push to finally redeem Delphine for her turncoat role, for all of the hell that she put Cosima through. By Season 5 though? I realized that as far as the writers were concerned? She already was redeemed. Even though she did nothing to earn it, except be presumed dead by Cosima. The way she treats Cosima in Season 3 is actually disgusting. Her reasoning for breaking up with Cosima is circular. She has to love "all the clones" in order to be with Cosima, and the way to do that is to take over Rachel's job, which means they can't date anymore? I'm not the only one who thought that didn't make sense, right? Oh and let's talk about how she stalks Cosima's date, breaks into her house, and threatens her life. Red. Flags. Cosima even says the line, "If you're not going to be with me, just let me go." I'm sorry, that should not be something she has to beg for. Delphine's behavior made me want her to stay far, far away from Cosima. Who is, incidentally, a sweetie and I absolutely adore her. I legit have trouble remembering that Tatiana's playing her because she just looks and acts so different. That said, even though I immensely disliked Delphine, I am so very glad that they made one of the clones gay. Just like I'm glad that they made one of them trans. (Though...Tony wasn't handled especially well.)

In general, I do think the earlier seasons were stronger. The Brightborn arc, while interesting, didn't really contribute much to the overarching narrative. We got the backstory on Beth's suicide and finally learned the truth about her, I suppose. Still, even though Beth is one of my favorite of the clones, and I never expected her to be either...I feel like the actual reason given for why she took her own life was rather illogical. She apparently did it because the investigation was putting the clones in danger of another Helsinki. Okay, but just because Evie Cho says you should off yourself, doesn't mean you have to. You could just, like...stop investigating. And if you die under mysterious circumstances without explaining anything to the sisters, they're not going to be put off from the investigation. They're going to look into this even more, because they don't know why they're not supposed to. The reveal that she and Art fell in love toward the end adds an extra gut punch, but it also doesn't make sense because wouldn't Art have referenced it during the period that he thought Sarah was Beth? On the other hand, Season 4 also introduced MK. And I have such a soft spot for her. I adore that sheep-masked sweetie. Everyone always asks "Which clone would you date" (because fandoms can think of nothing else I guess) and I never see anyone give any love to MK. Her death absolutely tore me apart. I am glad Siobhan avenged her even if she went down at the same time. Side note, her last word being the affectionate "Chickens..." Broke me.

Season 5 was a strange beast. In general, it seemed like we were finally getting some answers to the questions that were hanging over us. Exploring the deep mythos. But then they kind of turned it around and made it just be a Wizard of Oz style fraud twist. Westmoreland isn't really inhumanly old, he's a charlatan. I don't know why that was necessary in a science fictional show. I've seen the interviews and I get what they were going for, it just feels like it would have been cooler and far creepier if he was actually that old. The puppet master pulling the strings the whole time. We also finally get some answers for Kira's superhuman healing abilities (though we never learn how she's telepathically connected to the clones) and I'm loving it, but the trouble is, it's inconsistent. Ethan "Why is this guy so popular, he's an asshole" Duncan told Rachel specifically that Sarah being able to have children was a fluke, that the clones were "barren by design." I don't know, the whole concept of Revival and of the "magical island" was really foreboding and tied in with the earlier references to The Island of Doctor Moreau. Especially that song about "Revival's Children" just...the shudders, man. But just having it be a regular old scam is...a letdown. I know it may be more realistic, but I don't always need realism in my scifi. The finale is interesting, in that it's mostly an epilogue. I'm glad the clones (sans Rachel) got to live happily ever after, but there are two gut punches right at the end that are total nitpicks but they bother me. Helena naming her kids after Art and Donnie? And writing a memoir that she names "Orphan Black?" Those two tropes can go die in a hole. They can enjoy an oophorectomy, because I'm so sick of them.

The potential of Orphan Black was practically infinite. The results of Orphan Black fell frustratingly short.

#Orphan Black #Alison Hendrix #Rachel Duncan #Helena Orphan Black #Sarah Manning #Cosima Niehaus #Long Post #Beth Childs #Ramblings #Veera Suominen #Donnie Hendrix #Aldous Leekie #Ethan Duncan #Delphine Cormier #Siobhan Sadler #Clone Club #Arthur Bell #Tatiana Maslany

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discotreque · 4 years ago

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LwD 1.10, “No Small Parts”

Well, that was the most fun I've had watching Star Trek in literally a quarter of a century.

I had high hopes for this series. I love TAS, largely because of its wacky outsized concepts that could only have worked in animation—not that they all did work, but the potential was so apparent to me, even as a kid reading the Alan Dean Foster novelizations—and as an adult, there's something about the imagination of Lower Decks's FX setpieces that transcends even the glorious CGI bonanzas of Discovery.

Pause for a confession. I've long pushed back against criticism of serialization in new Trek. That's just how TV is now, okay? Might as well complain about it being in widescreen. But I'm backing down a little, because I've realized there is something about Star Trek that's inextricable from at least a partially-episodic format. And while Picard was telling a different kind of story, I can't deny that my favourite episodes of Disco have been the ones with a mostly self-contained A-plot. After 10 delightfully episodic instalments of LwD, its focus on long-term development of characters instead of a season-spanning puzzle-plot (okay, mostly just Mariner, but we only have 10 × 22 minutes and she is the star) has been downright refreshing.

So here we are, at the end of the most consistent and well-executed Season 1 of a Star Trek series since, arguably, Those Old Scientists. And sure, if they'd had to produce another... yikes, 42 episodes? Then sure, they probably would have dropped a clunker or two—but they didn't, and winning on a technicality is still winning. I'm practically vibrating with excitement for Disco to come back next week, but damn, I'm going to miss this little show while it's on hiatus.

Spoilers below:

Something I've been keeping track of finally paid off this week! (Which never happens to me, lol.) The destruction of the USS Solvang marked the first present-day death(s) of any Starfleet officer on Lower Decks, the only other on-screen killing at all being a flashback in "Cupid's Errant Arrow". Which makes sense, being (a) a comedy, and (b) about typically "expendable" characters: it hasn't been afraid to flirt with a little darkness here and there, but killing people off at Star Trek's usual pace wouldn't just be wrong for the tone, it would be downright bizarre.

But... people die on Star Trek. That's one of the core themes of the show, really: space is full of knowledge and beauty, but also danger and terror, and believing that the former is worth the risk of the latter is (according to Trek) one of humanity's most noble traits. I'm the least bloodthirsty TV watcher I know, but the longer we went with a body count of nil—ships completely evacuated before they were destroyed, main characters hilariously maimed without permanent consequences, etc.—well, I didn't mind per se, but the absence of truly deadly stakes was definitely getting conspicuous.

Turns out they were saving it up for maximum impact. And holy fuck, I've never felt such a pit in my stomach watching a ship get destroyed that wasn't named Enterprise. It felt grim and brutal and somehow both much too quick and dreadfully inevitable—and yeah, it looked extremely fucking cool—and I'd like every other Star Trek property for the rest of time to take notes under a large bold heading labeled RESTRAINT.

Comedy doesn't need to do this, but my favourite comedy does, and in a way that few other art forms can even approach: lower my emotional defences by making me laugh, endear character(s) to me with goofy-but-relatable antics—then BAM, sucker-punch me in the motherfucking feels. M*A*S*H is probably the classic example on TV, Futurama was notorious for it, and even Archer has pulled it off a few times; it's also a staple of some of my favourite standup. I wasn't sure if Lower Decks was going to go there in Season 1—and wasn't sure if they'd earn it—but I knew if they did, that they'd nail it, and damn. Feels good to be right.

Last batch of notes for the season!!! I rambled enough already, so let's do it liveblog-style:

I fucking KNEW they were going to use "archive" visuals from TAS at some point, I KNEW IT :D

"THOSE OLD SCIENTISTS" ahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I like chill and confident Boimler a lot? You can really see—

oh bRADWARD NOOOOO

That opening shot of the Solvang tracking down to the red giant was extremely Discovery-esque... minus the motion sickness, that is

A lady captain AND a lady first officer? That's—oh hey, it's Captain Dayton's brand-new ship. Hahaha, that means they're totally fucked, right?.

Yep! They sure a—umm, wh—shit, okay, but—oh no—no, you can't—wait DON'T

...fuck

FUCK.

Narrator: "And then Amy needed a five-hour break."

[live-action Star Trek showrunner voice] "Gee, Mike! Why does CBS let you have two cold opens?"

Okay, yes, the bit with Rutherford cycling through all the different attitudes in his implant was transparently an excuse for Eugene Cardero to vamp while waiting for something to do in the story, but as far as I'm concerned they can contrive a reason for him to do a bunch of different silly Rutherfords in a row any time they damn well want, because that was classic!!!

EXOCOMP EXOCOMP EXOCOMP EXOCOMP

AND THE EXOCOMP IS PAINTED LIKE THE EXOCOMP IS WEARING A LITTLE EXOCOMP-SIZED STARFLEET UNIFORM

EXOCOMP!!!!!

The slow burn and now the payoff of the Mariner-is-Freeman's-secret-daughter plot has been executed so well. I'm beyond impressed with this writer's room, y'all—they are threading a hell of a needle here

"Wolf 359 was an inside job" would have been a spit-take if I'd had anything in my mouth

...how many memos do you think Starfleet Command has had to issue asking people to stop calling the USS Sacramento "the Sac"?

CAN WE TALK ABOUT HOW THEY'VE DECORATED THE SHUTTLECRAFT SEQUOIA THOUGH

Is, uh, is it weird if I'm starting to ship Tendi and Peanut Hamper a little? It is weird, isn't it. I knew it was weird...

Coital barbs??? I take back everything I said about wanting to know more about Shaxs/T'Ana.

The "good officer" version of Mariner is... kind of hot, tbh! But Tawny Newsome has done such a great job of building this character all season that her voice getting uncharacteristically clipped and martial and "sir! yes, sir!" is also deeply, deeply weird

Ah, so this is literally exactly like when TNG (and DS9) would bring in, and then blow up, a never-before-seen Galaxy-class ship, just to underscore that we're facing a real threat this week, baby. And hey, it fucking worked—my heart was in my throat, omg, for the reveal of the—

PAKLEDS?????????

The fucking PAKLEDS have been gluing weapons to their ships for the last 15 years. GREAT.

(We interrupt the SHIP BEING SLICED INTO SCRAP for an interesting bit of world-building: on Earth, the traditional First Contact Day meal is salmon!)

"I need a dangerous, half-baked solution that breaks Starfleet codes and totally pisses me off! That's an order." I'm starting to think Captain Freeman might actually be overqualified for the Cerritos, y'all—she's REALLY awesome

OH SHIT IT'S BADGEY, this is a TERRIBLE IDEA

"How much contraband have you hidden on my ship?" "I don't know! A lot!"

Awwww, Boims!!!

AHAHAHAHAHAHA, FUCK THIS, PEANUT HAMPER OUT

BADGEY NOOOOO

AUGHHHHH WHAT THE CHRIST DID HE JUST—BUT—RUTHERFORD'S IMPLANT????

RUTHERFORD!!!!!!!!!!

SHAXS!!!!!!

F U C K ! ! ! ! !

ahaIOPugdfhagntpgjrq90e5mgu90qe5;oigoqgw4ouegrw5SP;IAEHURVa IT’S THE TITAN???????????

IT'S CAPTAIN WILLIAM T. RIKER ON THE MOTHERFUCKING TITAN??????????

i'm screaming I'M SCREAMINGGGGGGTGGGTGQER;LBHAOIBVNV;OAPBIJNVagr;h;oagruipuwtnaetbaetgq35ghqet

I'M SO GLAD THIS WASN'T SPOILED FOR ME WTF

I AM WEEPING LIKE A CHILD

...

(Just a brief 20-minute pause this time)

And oh wow, seeing Will and Deanna hits different after Picard too, in a few different ways, which I may even get into later now that my heartrate is back to normal, lmao

Oh, I am always here for some jokes at the expense of the Sovereign class. The Enterprise-E sucked. They should have built a new bigger model of the D and new Galaxy-class interiors for the TNG movies, and I will die on that hill

OKAY, FINE, YOU GOT ME, RUTHERFORD × TENDI WOULD BE ADORABLE AND THIS IS ACTUALLY A PRETTY GOOD SETUP FOR IT

Awwww, Shaxs though :( Congrats on the single most badass death in Star Trek history, dude. The Prophets would—well, the actual Prophets would probably be slightly confused about most of it, but Kira Nerys would be proud of you and I feel like that probably counts for more. RIP, Papa Bear

I am here all damn DAY for the Mariner–Riker parallels, ahahahahaha

Pausing it to record my prediction that Boimler's commitment to not caring about rank anymore is going to last 3... 2...

Yep.

Bradward, how DARE YOU.

"Those guys had a long road, getting from there to here." OH FOR THE LOVE OF—

What a brilliant way to resolve and renew the various character arcs and relationships moving into Season 2! The writers could easily have brought everything back to status quo—chaotic Mariner fighting with her mom and being a bad influence on Boimler, etc.—and done another 10 just like these, but I suspect that wouldn't have been ambitious enough for these writers. What a blast. I cannot wait for more.

Thanks for following along, friends! Stay tuned for my (similarly patchy and amateur) coverage of Discovery, starting next week!

#star trek #star trek lower decks #lwd spoilers #lower decks spoilers #lower decks #amy's episode notes

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advernia · 4 years ago

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hi hi!!! ( ´ ▽ ` )ﾉ mmm… i try not to expect something out of an unreleased route (bc most of the time i am horribly betrayed lmao) but there are loads of stuff i hope to see! forgive me for being rambly tho haha!

mousse. i actually have no idea what to expect from his route but what i do know is that his current position as a diplomat bothers me in a lot of ways lmao! but anyway… naturally we should be getting details on why he left the red army in the first place, so maybe on that side i do wish we’d get more insight on the workings of the red army, i guess? not that i’m expecting something super detailed or anything (tho it would be great if cybird feeds us with details), but for starters, maybe something more concerning the chosen bloodline - for instance, how did it come to be that for the red army, those thirteen certain families are the only ones strictly allowed to fill in that one position in the chosen ranks??? do relatives or family branch members count??? additionally, is mousse the first case of someone stepping down / refusing to take over their designated rank??? i’d like to think that he isn’t, but then again i maybe wrong???

alternatively… maybe mousse’s route could fill in some bit of cradle lore too? lmao i mean he is a diplomat and alice is a ‘visitor’, so he’s the best suitor to fit in the role of a tour guide. maybe a little more idea on how cradle works as an actual country, bc god i can’t even imagine how it functions properly. who knows, maybe he actually knows about that abandoned building in the forbidden forest + why it’s there in the first place. maybe he can actually elaborate the background of the goddamn 500 year conflict. if he actually does, bless my soul.

on relationships… while mousse is neutral but a former red, i imagine we’ll be seeing more of the ra guys rather than the ba, maybe… that’s fine with me since i’m interested in learning more about his relationship with lancelot, and maybe how he interacts with kyle + edgar since we already have a general idea of how he is around jonah + zero. but since the neutral faction has increased now, i’d like it if most of his interactions would involve more of his fellow neutrals. they need more screentime.

and finally, romantically… man, that ‘love at first sight… or is it?’ bit on his profile really gets me. oh, i will be ridiculously happy if that whole ‘love at first sight’ thing is interpreted as just sheer interest on mousse’s part. he’s in love with the visitor from the land of reason, with alice the second who hails from the same land as the first alice. he’s in love with the thought of her, a person who lives in a world so different from his own…but has he ever seen alice the second as the woman she is, as another human being??? this is probably unlikely to happen as mousse doesn’t seem too cold as a character but OOOOHHHHH I’D LOVE TO HAVE A TWIST（○□○）

tl;dr: a focus on red army history / more expository stuff on cradle. a toss between mousse interacting with the ra + neutrals, preferrably more of the latter. if cybird pulls a surprising twist / interpretation on mousse’s ‘love at first sight’ for alice, then i will LIVE.

dean. for starters, i’d like a little more understanding on how the boarding school he works in operates haha… i get it’s open to all regardless of status (red/black, noble/commoner maybe?), but what type of school is it, is it a regular one or a military academy of sorts??? if it’s a military type, to what extent are the students trained - basic combat/magic or are there advanced classes or all that shebang??? from what age are you able to enroll in it??? who runs it??? probably someone from the neutral faction / government itself but seriously speaking, is this the only school available in cradle??? if you’re wondering why i think that, i just find it odd that two different factions that have been in constant conflict still send their kids to study in that one school where anyone and everyone is accepted… i’d imagine the red side isn’t so happy about this more than the black side is, but maaaybe it’s a government-mandated / treaty / pact thing??? tbh i’m still on the fence on those ideas since there’s a lot more questions that would arise from that but… yeah. just… details, pls _(:3」∠)_ oh, more bonus points if we get more info about the day everything went dark!

anyway… dean being a professor appears underwhelming but it’s pretty interesting to take into account that he probably trained all(?) of them army suitors so… personally i’d be interested if there’s your teacher vs. student(s) fight scenes lmao. preferrably with dean still able to hold his own. bonus points if he taunts his opponent in the process with words like ‘i see you’ve forgotten your fundamentals’ or something haha! even more bonus points if we get dean/alice fighting the forces of evil magic disciples together!!! oh, that would be so good.

it would be fun if dean’s the type to subtly poke his former students with their dark history past mistakes when he sees them / needs them to settle down or smth. maybe he has dirt on someone like luka (and no, it isn’t about him feeding birds on the rooftop lmao). maybe he’s the only one who can make sirius & lancelot feel nervous easily, holy shit. but again, as dean’s a neutral, i’d prefer his interactions to involve more of his fellow neutrals. especially dalim. though that might be a given considering their relationship. i will greatly appreciate seeing more of the tweedle twins dynamic. even more if it turns out that the main conflict/antagonist of their individual routes happens not to be amon, but their other half and it’s not because of alice. AHHHHHH ( ･ᴗ･̥̥̥ )

idk what dynamic they’re gonna shoot for with dean & alice, but i do hope it doesn’t give off your ‘teacher-student’ vibes aha…… considering how dean’s personality appears so far though, i’d like to think that a slow burn would be fitting for them…? maybe something similar to lancelot’s where the conflict is given more focus than the romance itself.

tl;dr: background on the school + the day everything went dark. teacher vs. student(s) fight scenes + dean/alice fighting duo. dean being lolz evulz to his former students. tweedle twins drama, bless. if dean/alice gives off the teacher-student dynamic, well… can’t say i didn’t see that coming.

dalim. oh boy, while i’m trying hard not to expect anything for now, i can’t help but pray for something good with dalim. i think he has the best potential among the new three since he’s only (or first) suitor in an actual antagonistic position - he knows it, he accepts it, and he’s still going with it. if cybird handwaves a redemption arc for him thru the flimsy power of kira-kira labu (or friendship), i will be very, very, very disappointed. seriously.

anyway, there’s a lot of question marks surrounding him that i want answered but of course, more dirt on the magic tower. perhaps whatever details about the tower that they failed to address in harr’s route they can add + elaborate here, though i really wouldn’t mind knowing more nitty gritty on the human experimentation bit. then there’s the matter about the regression magic he developed. though maybe all before that detailed stuff, maybe some background about how dalim came to be a magic disciple would be good. and how and why he manages a pub on the side. origin stories are a must.

not gonna lie though - i’m more interested in his social life, his relationship with amon the first priority. how long has he known amon, did he approach amon or was it the other way around, when did he start serving amon, do amon and he have similar goals, how ‘loyal’ is he to amon, was he already amon’s subordinate when amon killed his father, did he help amon kill his father, why does he even serve such a guy in the first place... yeah, all that and more. hopefully those are going to be addressed. then there’s dean... if dalim’s goals + ambitions are purely for the sake of his older twin, i’m gonna cry a river. even moreso if his determination is so strong that he still chooses dean over his kira-kira labu for alice. now if cybird really does pull that off, consider me IMPRESSED. HOT DAMN.

them aside, in general his relationship tree seems complicated... he has strained relationships with harr + zero + loki + oliver, though it seems that he and harr still can seem to hold ‘conversations’ with each other... lancelot + seth don’t like him... idk if he was already involved in the day everything went dark operation, but if he was then ray + fenrir would definitely knock him down... lmao that’s a lot of hostility there, and that’s as dalim. as dum, zero + ray + fenrir + oliver are still wary of him haha! well, i hope his interactions with the rest of the cast will fare better / some of those relationships may not be as strained as they seem???

and the romance... since dalim’s human experimentation is a step farther and darker than edgar’s history of murder, there is no way you are going to make me swallow the possibility that he could go down the same route and be pardoned by cradle through trial. or in any way going to be redeemed + forgiven / set free quickly. no, i won’t accept it either if amon does something similar to a claudius and suddenly decides to say that he pulled dalim along for the ride (rather, i’d be furious). ends i’ll accept are dalim himself demanding for or receiving proper judgement for his actions. the feelings between dalim and alice are there & acknowledged, sure, but sadly regardless of what ending they physically cannot be together.

too angsty??? maybe it is, since i personally feel that his situation has the potential to feel more... well, military/war-fitting than the other suitors. i’m not hoping for that scenario simply because i want that extreme angst + drama, but rather because it somehow doesn’t sit right with me that someone so goal-focused, someone who seems to have walked down the wrong path of his own volition, who stated himself that he isn’t human and won’t let ethics stand in his way (zero’s route), would allow himself to be easily forgiven for all that he had done. it’s like a disservice. believe me, i like redemption arcs. but for something severe like what dalim dabbled in for what seemed like years... redemption almost sounds too kind.

i hope whatever they have planned for dalim would appear reasonable and satisfying, both to how they will portray his character and to the plot of his route as a whole.

tl;dr: more magic tower info. his history with amon. tweedle twins drama, bless. more insight into his relationship tree. cybird, dalim/alice’s foe yay has potential, pls don’t mess it up.....

#askdfghjl #the read more break went into the ask bubble like???#it looked odd so i transferred my response to text instead #i'm alright thinking about mousse + dean but dalim... ooooh boy #this ask made me laugh bc i recalled that some friends and i talked about something like this last year and it was messy #this post isn't any better than those convos lmaooo but i'd like to say i tried #i have other backlogs but i'm too excited to be home + finally sleep in my bed again BLESS

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malepresentingleg · 5 years ago

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This Is An Anti Anti Kira Post

Because you all need to chill.

I've seen people in this fandom say she's a b*tch, she's evil, she should be run over by a car, that they want to kill her, that she doesn't deserve a redemption arc, and that she's some sort of master manipulator!

I'll start with the last one, because before I watched the new episodes I've seen a few posts about how "once again" Kira manipulated TJ and ruined Tyrus.

People actually say she, with evil intent, manipulated him to join her on the swings… to ruin tyrus?

Kira had no idea of the swings' significant! She genuinely looked like she was having fun. Sure did she bait TJ and speakto his competitor side? Yeah! But that's just banter. And this is not unlike the Marty and Buffy banter you all like so much- would you say that's evil manipulation? And Buffy does it with Marty when he's actually dating someone else, not just crushing like TJ (I def don't think Buffy is manipulating Marty, it's all super harmless, but just to show you how absurd it is to call what Kira did manipulation.) No. Because Muffy is a ship you root for, and the Kira x TJ dynamic is in the way of a ship you root for.

Also with costume day. Yes, Kira was implying that TJ should rather hang out with her than with Cyrus and that was wrong of her (more on that later). But you all made her to seem like this giant rude homophobe who was threatening to out TJ. While in reality, Kira just said a few words, probably referring to how she's "cooler" than Cyrus (again, more on that later) and TJ is supposed to be cool.

And TJ just really took it to heart. It really hit him in his insecurities. Ultimately, it was HIS choice to bail on Cyrus after he got him so excited for the costume. His choice not to let him know. Sure I understand WHY it happened. But you all act like, both here and with the swings, Kira has this magical powers and she forces TJ to do stuff he doesn't want to! She doesn't. TJ has his shit to deal with, and it's hard for him and a long process- which is why he makes all these mistakes and hurts other people. He still needs to own up to everything and deal with it, but I understand. I understand why he does what he does, and no, the excuse is not "because Kira made him" because this is not true.

Now what I promised to get back to - Kira's faults. Kira is a young girl who's very good at basketball and very confident about it. Buffy begged her to join the team who was really a mess, so Kira did, and really killed it. But she was also braggy about it and insulted the other players for being bad. Is that bad? Of course!! That's obviously not nice?? But I mean. She's literally a 14 year old girl. She boasts.

And then what? Buffy kicks her off the team for her attitude? In Kira's eye, that's really shitty and unfair. Buffy is being unreasonable and basically told her "sorry you're too bitchy for the team".

I will point out, in case it wasn't clear, that Buffy is obviously right and Kira's attitude really was a big problem. I just mean to say that for Kira's child mind it's obviously not fair and unjust and Buffy is The Bad Guy, so she also isn't the warmest to Buffy's best friend (aka last episode). If you hate someone, and a friend (TJ) tries to get you to hang out, it's understandable to have the fakest smile on. (TJ is just a dumbass for not picking up on it). It's not like she killed Cyrus's puppy! She didn't "steal" TJ away from him, or "forbade TJ from meeting up with Cyrus" (like I've seen in several fanfics). She just wasn't the most polite, which like i said, is understandable considering how she feels about Buffy, and like Cyrus pointed up himself- him being Buffy's best friend.

Two last points, and if you survived this far you might as well read them-

Remember Kira's position. She had just moved schools. She joined the basketball team which is her passion and then got kicked out. I imagine she doesn't have any friends and she's now missing out on her hobby. TJ doesn't 'look like he wants to be anywhere else' when he's with her like you all keep saying. It doesn't look like he's trying to 'escape'. They really genuinely seem to be having fun together playing basketball! And at the swings! TJ was reluctant because this place meant something to him (again, Kira didn't know that), but then they were both just KIDS, playing and having fun! TJ also doesn't have many friends after the whole gun thing, so it makes sense they'll get along. TJ never does anything to make her think he doesn’t want to be friends with her, so she isn’t “making him spend time with her”. I think her "motive" is really just being his friend and getting to play basketball with him (maybe she also wants to join the boys' team, but still not evil). I don't think her motive is to "get revenge on Buffy by making her bff sad".

I also want to specifically address the "she doesn't deserve a redemption arc" comment I saw. Because damn if that isn't crazy. The actions Kira did (not what her actions led to aka Cyrus being heartbroken, but her actual actions) were by far less bad than what TJ did to Buffy in season 2. Not to mention- SHE'S A FOURTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL!!! Of course she deserve redemption! It needs to be done properly, but it's not like she did some unforgivable thing to any of the characters!!! Only to you! The shippers!!!!!!!

So I need you to think real deep why it's easier for you to believe TJ's (somewhat poorly executed) redemption than Kira's hopefully future one. Is it because TJ was gonna be part of a boy x boy (white) ship so Oh he's so soft! And Kira is in the way of this ship, which is the most evil thing a girl can do? Or maybe it's about how TJ is a white boy who hurt a black girl so no biggie , while Kira is a Mean Black Girl whose actions led to white boys' feelings being hurt? certainly not worth redemption right?

So like I said, you all need to chill and stop hating on Kira like she’s the devil because she really is not that bad and I hope she gets a proper redemption (I'll shortly make another post about my prediction for that) in the little time we have left.

That was another Controversial Rant About Andi Mack by Shir.

Check out the first and second one if you want more!

#andi mack #honestly i'm tired of seeing so much aggression in the tag towards her!#of course she's not my favorite character i mean #she's the antagonist rn #but jesus chill #andi mack spoilers #tyrus #tj kippen #cyrus goodman #buffy driscoll #kira #kira andi mack #long rant #if you read it all well done

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antimatterpod · 5 years ago

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Transcript - 45. Affable Evil and the Chaos Agents

You can listen to this episode here!

[theme music]

Liz: Welcome to Antimatter Pod, a Star Trek podcast where we discuss fashion, feminism, subtext and subspace, hosted by Anika and Liz. Today we're joined again by Jules to discuss our favorite villains in Star Trek.

And, Jules, which villain made us think of you?

Jules: [laughs]

Anika: That's not a nice way to put it!

Jules: Apparently just -- well, you know what? I've made my peace with it. You just DMd me and were like, "Hey, what does it say that I immediately think of you when I hear the name "Dukat"? I'm like, oh, okay. Well, you know, I've made peace with it. It's all right.

Liz: Yeah. Yeah. And your mother may be disappointed in you, but I think it's great.

Jules: Deeply. Deeply. I love making fun of him! That, she appreciates.

Liz: Yeah, you're not one of those Dukat fans who's like, "The Occupation was great, and Dukat did nothing wrong, ever, in his entire life."

Jules: No, he did everything wrong. Always. Forever. Every single thing.

Liz: So when I suggested this episode, I kind of wanted to draw a distinction between villains as individuals who are, in some way, opposed to the goals and ethics of the main characters, versus, like, whole alien races, who are just enemies of the Federation, or Bajor, or whatever. So, like, Weyoun could be a villain, but not the Dominion as a whole, because that's just sort of faceless.

Anika: Mm.

Jules: Interesting.

Liz: And I love Weyoun as a villain, he's sort of the middle management of villainy.

Jules: Yes.

Liz: But I would have trouble calling the Borg villains, they're more of a force of nature.

Anika: That makes sense to me.

Jules: Yeah. That makes sense.

Liz: Like, coming off season 1 of Star Trek: Picard, I have trouble thinking of the Romulans, ever, as villains, so much as deeply misguided individuals with a terrible government.

Anika: [laughs] Correct.

Jules: I mean, you know, I think I emailed you a little after the -- what was it, the Qowat Milat were first introduced, and was like, you know, honestly, I've never quite been into Romulans because, when it comes to races who are enemies of the Federation, have totalitarian governments and extremely powerful intelligence machines, and a moderately successful dissident movement internally, the Cardassians will always come first in my heart.

Liz: Absolutely.

Anika: I think that's fair, but I think that explains why I don't care about the Cardassians as much?

Jules: Yeah. No, exactly!

Anika: Because my heart already belonged to the Romulans.

Jules: Exactly, you know? You're either a Romulan person or you're a Cardassian person. There's two types of people in the world.

Liz: But that doesn't mean that I don't find Cardassians interesting -- they're almost my favourite part of Deep Space 9. And the whole thing where Garak worked on Romulus as a gardener in the Cardassian embassy -- that's great! I love it when these two forces work together, and it actually turns out to be a real disaster.

Jules: Yes! That might have to be what we--

Anika: And my favourite villain is, of course, a Cardassian.

Liz: Yes.

Jules: Yeah!

Liz: So -- yeah, I didn't really want to get into "the Klingons!" I find the Klingons really boring as villains? I love them mainly as foils for Worf, or characters in their own right?

Jules: Yeah.

Liz: I love Worf, I just don't think the Klingons deserve him.

Jules: Aw. Yeah.

Anika: Well, I mean, the TOS Klingons are just painful. Don't watch those. You have to really be in the right place of, like, okay, this is going to be racist, and stereotypical, and awful. Okay, now I can just enjoy it as a piece of theatre. And that's okay.

Liz: And if you're in the mood for Shakespearian actors wearing brownface, the Kazon are right there.

Anika and Jules: [laughs]

Anika: The Kazon are no one's favourite. Can we just put that out there? No one sticks up for the Kazon.

Liz: No. No. I -- honestly, going through my season 2 Voyager rewatch, I realised that they had a lot of potential, and it could have been realised had the writers been less … racist?

Anika: Horrible?

Liz: Yeah. Yeah.

Anika: I mean, there is that whole episode where it turns out that they're the Bajorans of the Delta Quadrant, and it was like, oh, this is bad, guys.

Jules: Oh no.

Liz: Oh yeah.

Anika: This is really bad!

Liz: "Wow, these people freed themselves from slavery thirty years ago, and now they're really dysfunctional and aimless, and desperate to survive?"

Anika: I forgot it was thirty years!

Liz: "That definitely makes them bad guys!"

Anika: Oh my gosh, so bad.

Jules: [groans]

Liz: I think, honestly, in some ways, the biggest villains on Voyager were the writers.

Jules: [laughs] See, also, Picard?

Liz: Y-yeah. Yeah. So what makes a character succeed or fail as a villain?

Jules: Oh, interesting question.

Anika: That's a very interesting question. I think this is where I have to bring up that I did favourite villains in my Star Wars podcast, and it was extremely difficult for me.

Liz: Because you don't believe that half the characters are really villainous?

Anika: Yeah. So we were supposed to pick, you know, three to talk about. I could only come up with two. And we also -- first, we were, like, okay, how are we going to define this? And I came up with this great definition: a villain is someone who acts in opposition to the heroes. And then I did not use that as my basis at all. I added that they had to also be, like, completely villainous, and have no redeeming qualities as people. And that was the only they could be villains in my book, and that's why there are only two of them. And Darth Vader wasn't one of them.

Liz: I was gonna say, that's Palpatine and Count Dooku.

Jules: So you distinguish between villain and antagonist.

Anika: Um -- I guess? Yeah, I think that's word for word what I eventually said. But I just had to put that out there, that -- this was easier for me, because I had my favourite villain, and even though I totally believe that she has redeeming qualities, I also believe that she is a Tarkin-esque type who's really good at being a villain, and enjoys being a villain. And so--

Jules: She does.

Anika: --it was like -- I don't know. The Star Trek universe, it was easier. Even the villains that you guys put on the list, I could come up with reasons why they were villains, and they were good to talk about, and I was, like, into it. Whereas--

Liz: I think the difference is that, with Star Wars, we know that most of these villains were abused children, and their behaviour is a reflection of that. And so, without endorsing, say, burning down a village, to pick a random example, it's possible to put them in context. Whereas, you know, Gul Dukat probably had a really hard childhood, but he's still a douchebag.

Jules: Well, yeah.

Anika: Well, the thing is that he goes through a whole redemption arc, and decides not to be redeemed.

Liz: Yes!

Anika: There you go!

Jules: Honestly, that's -- even then, though, is it? Like redemption arc is probably -- even I'm like -- as someone who loves the character, even I'm like, redemption is … he becomes slightly less--

Anika: To be fair.

Jules: For a while, he looks like maybe he might become a little bit less terrible.

Anika: I guess it's more like, he was offered the opportunity.

Jules: Yeah.

Anika: He's offered the opportunity to go on a redemption arc, and chooses not to.

Jules: To do better. Yeah. And, I mean, I guess, for me, what I find interesting is that he totally does not realise he's a villain.

Liz: No!

Jules: I mean, that's what I -- honestly, I mentioned this on my blog, which is -- I was looking back and realising, okay, my favourite types of villains are generally, like, what TV Tropes calls "affable evil", where they don't, like, go out of their way to twirl their moustache. And generally, they're not gonna be jerks just because they're evil. They're generally often really nice people in a lot of ways, until you get in the way of their goal, at which point, they will do anything.

Liz: Yeah, yeah.

Jules: So, affable evil. Often, they have no idea they're the villain. They genuinely believe they're the hero of the piece, and they're probably completely obsessed with and possibly horny for the actual hero of the piece. And I was like, you know? The formative age at which I was watching Deep Space 9 may explain this.

Liz and Anika: [laugh]

Liz: It's such a good description of both Dukat and Lorca. And it kind of--

Jules: Yes!

Liz: --comes down to my thing, where my favourite type of villain is the one who really, truly believes that they're the hero. And yes, they're doing terrible things, but the ultimate goal is worth it. Even if the ultimate goal is, say, the long-term repression and ultimate destruction of the Bajoran culture, or taking the Terran Empire and making it even worse.

Jules: Making the Empire great again?

Liz: Yeah! And it's really -- I think the sort of villain who thinks they're the chosen one, and is sort of a legend in their own lunchbox, but is also a bit ridiculous? You know, Lorca is almost introduced telling dad jokes, and Dukat has this amazing, ridiculous obsession with Kira and Sisko, and would absolutely bone them both. And -- yeah, I find that sort of character really entertaining. I don't even necessarily want a redemption arc for that sort of villain, I just want to see them doing their thing, and being really shocked and amazed to learn that they're not succeeding just because of the magical power of their own charisma.

Jules: Yes. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, honestly, partly, for me, it's that I almost always -- redemption arcs very rarely, if ever, work for me. Like, the only one I can think of that I've really been, like, yes, this works for me, is Prince Zuko from Avatar.

Liz: He is only really a villain for two episodes, and then Jason Isaacs comes in, and we see him put in his place as a scared, victimised teenager. And that's the point where you realise, oh, there is more to this character than being a stroppy bad guy, and--

Jules: He lived in a really messed up culture, and was completely -- yeah. Yeah.

Liz: And -- to talk about Avatar for a moment -- I am very much on the Azula redemption train, but I would never even consider a redemption arc for, say, Ozai, because he doesn't want it. He thinks he's doing the right thing. He thinks he's entitled to take over the world and literally burn it down, and take his shirt off in the process because he's just that gorgeous.

Jules: You know?

Anika: So the character I chose as my favourite villain in Star Wars, after all of this, was Ben Mendelsohn's character in Rogue One? Orson Krennec?

Liz: Yeah!

Jules: Oh!

Anika: Which I think is exactly the type of person that you're talking about. And where I never wanted to see him redeemed, because he doesn't -- yeah, he absolutely doesn't know he's a villain. He thinks that he's doing everything correctly, and should get all of the acclaim, and is just angry at the world for not giving it to him.

Liz: Yeah!

Anika: And that's fun to watch.

Liz: Again, like Weyoun, he's the middle management of evil. And even some Weyouns can sort of -- I don't want to say redeem themselves? But he chooses to follow Odo instead of the rest of the Founders.

The other reason I don't really love having the Dominion as "a villain" is because there's so much genetic manipulation of everyone but the Founders that -- you know, how much does free will really tie into it? It's no fun hissing at a villain who has no choice.

Jules: Yeah. Honestly, a lot of the seventh and later sixth seasons of DS9, I'm like -- honestly, on my blog, I'm like, you know, you could make a drinking game out of my use of the phrase "missed opportunity" for the show.

Liz: Oh yeah!

Jules: But I'm really -- I feel like you could have stretched the Dominion War arc out by at least another season, and really given a lot more characters the opportunity to come into their own. You know, including Ezri, and that's a whole other story, but -- yeah. I'm just, like -- I mean, I was thinking about this earlier, as well, about, you know, you have entire races who are villains, versus, like, individual characters. And where do you kind of draw the line there, of sort of generic villains who are -- they're from this race, so they must be evil. Which is the Ferengi, actually, for all of Next Gen.

Anika: Yeah. Right.

Liz: And what a great subtext that is!

Jules: Oof! Yes. As I've mentioned.

Liz: That's kind of why I don't really have many favourite villains from Voyager, because the nature of the series means we don't really get to dig in deep with any cultures. So we only see a handful of individuals. And they're usually hostile, and usually they have good reasons for being hostile, but we don't get to see beyond that.

Anika: Right.

Jules: It's sort of [like the] Original Series in that regard, really.

Liz: Yeah, yeah!

Anika: Yeah.

Liz: I feel like the closest TOS comes to a returning villain, aside from "the Klingon Empire" is Harry Mudd. And he's no one's favourite anything.

Jules: He's Harry Mudd's favourite!

Liz: It's true, it's true, and my friend Aristofranes wrote that excellent fic where he and Lorca go on a heist.

Jules and Anika: [laughs]

Jules: I like mirror!Mudd, in the comics--

Liz: He's such a nice man!

Jules: The mostly forgettable, like, we'll forget the last few pages of it, tie-in comic in the mirror universe.

Liz: You know, as with so much of Discovery, I just stopped paying attention after they killed Cornwell.

Jules: Yeah. Fair! That seems reasonable.

Anika: Yep.

Jules: I mean, the mirror universe, though, speaking of that -- I guess we can get to Lorca from that, some more, but mirror -- I feel like, again, missed opportunities, but mirror!Kira, who I feel like was introduced as a -- basically DS9, the first mirror universe episode was pretty serious. And then the rest of them got -- they just went ridiculously campy. And initially, though, I'm like, oh, when she's first introduced to mirror!Kira, I'm like, the Intendant is Dukat, basically.

Liz: Yeah!

Jules: And I'm like, this is -- it adds a whole other layer of creepiness and grossness on top of their relationship, that every time, now, Kira looks at him, she not only has, you know, the leader of the -- the mastermind of the Occupation in her lifetime, but also gets to see, "Oh, there but for the grace of the Prophets go I," basically, of, "How little would it have taken for me to become this person?" And, yeah, I'm just like, they're -- yeah, mirror universe and Lorca got me thinking of that. I'm like, oof, you know, talk about your missed opportunities there with the mirror universe, for villains and -- yeah.

Liz: And seeing how circumstances shape a person, and that, for all that Michael sort of bucks Federation society in a lot of ways, she is still very much of the Federation, the same way her counterpart appears to have been of the Terran Empire.

Jules: Yeah.

Liz: I have a lot of feelings about the mirror universe, because I've always been a fan of it, and I really disliked what DS9 wound up doing with it after that first episode.

Jules: It was a shame.

Anika: Yup.

Liz: Yeah. So I was so glad when Discovery made it scary again.

Anika: It's serious.

Liz: Yes! And I find it interesting when people say that there is no possibility of redeeming Philippa Georgiou because she's basically Dukat, and in certain fanboy circles, this leads to an argument about who is worse, and they're very keen on defending Dukat. [huge sigh]

Jules: Noooooooo.

Anika: Of course they are.

Jules: No.

Liz: And, I have to say, as someone who enjoys a good redemption arc, I don't know if that's really what we're getting with Georgiou, or if she is just channelling her ruthlessness--

Jules: I hope not, honestly?

Liz: --in different directions.

Jules: Yeah. And honestly, I feel like that's more interesting to me. And I can see, actually, the Dukat comparison in some regards, in that she is, you know -- even more than he was, actually, because he was just some bureaucrat, really, he was not the head of the government, and she was. But also -- and we've talked about this a little -- it was intentional on the writers' part that the main difference, they said, between Georgiou and Lorca was that Georgiou listened to Michael when she said -- like, Michael told him all throughout that, "I am still Federation at heart." And he was like, "Yeah, okay, fine, whatever."

Liz: "Sure you are, honey."

Jules: And Georgiou listened to her, and was like, "Okay, fine." And that was the main difference between them, that Georgiou actually listened to her where Lorca did not. And I'm like, that's not really -- that doesn't feel like an accident, that it's a woman of colour who's saying that, and listened to the other woman of colour, and the white man kind of says, "Yeah, sure."

Anika: Talks over them.

Jules: Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, you know? Yeah.

Anika: He's shown not to listen to either of them.

Jules: Yeah, exactly.

Liz: One of the consistent things about Lorca is that all of his relationships with women are ultimately manipulative and dismissive, and it starts with Michael, and Landry, and Cornwell, and then more Michael, and Philippa. He is not Respect Women Guy.

So, yeah, I don't know that Philippa would even want to be quote-unquote "redeemed". But I think she is open to having more flexibility in her priorities? And I think part of her does enjoy being the bad advice bear of the Federation.

Jules: Yeah.

Liz: But also being safe.

Jules: Yeah!

Anika: I was gonna say, I see her story as more of a survival story than a redemption arc. Like, she has had to be on guard her entire life. And the higher up in rank she got, the worse it became, and the more people were after her. And then the two people closest to her betrayed her. And now this is sort of, like, this -- it's a second chance to live the life she wanted to live.

Liz: Yeah.

Jules: You know, as you're saying this, you know what the best DS9 comparison would be to Georgiou? It's Garak, I feel like.

Liz: I was -- yeah!

Anika: Yes! And I don't think that he is a "hero", quote-unquote.

Jules: No.

Anika: He's much more -- he's maybe not a villain, but he's much more anti-hero, dark side, than he is--

Jules: I mean, honestly, there's this wonderful essay -- but basically it characterises -- and in retrospect, that's exactly what it is -- the dynamic as everyone else kind of dragging Garak toward decency. In terms of his quite-unquote "redemption arc". It's everyone else being, like, "Okay, well, we're gonna treat you like one of us, even though you're not," and he's just constantly, like, "No. No." And kind of testing the boundaries. And they're like, "Okay, well, you can do that all you want, but we're still gonna treat you like one of us." And eventually, sort of, in spite of himself, he ends up having a redemption arc, or something close to one, something approaching one, maybe?

Anika: He starts making better choices.

Jules: Mm hmm.

Liz: Yeah, no, that's perfect. And, like Georgiou, he's a chaos agent. He pokes and pulls to see what happens some of the time, and sometimes what happens is, he winds up torturing Odo! But no hard feelings, they're gonna have lunch next week.

Jules: Well, you know what, honestly, Odo -- because Odo's a collaborator. I mean, that's a whole other story. But, yeah.

Liz: Odo is the worst dot Tumblr dot com. But also, I like that they wind up friends because Odo was tortured by Garak -- because it's so alien, and they are aliens. I wouldn't buy it if they were both human characters, if even one of them was a human character, but they're not! And so it tells us something about them, and who and what they are, and that's cool.

Jules: Yeah. Honestly, yeah. And I really like -- and it sets them up, like, that episode explicitly sets them up as parallels of each other. I mean, the end of the episode is Garak talking to Odo, and you never actually see Odo as they're saying, "We should have breakfast together more often." It's Garak in the ruins of his shop, and you only see Odo in the mirror, as a reflection in the mirror. I'm like, wow. That's one of those things where I'm like, oh, bless you, Star Trek, that's so on the nose, and I love it.

Liz: Right! It's like, in Picard, when the camera shows him with the Locutus face superimposed. That is not subtle, but I love it.

Anika: [laughs]

Jules: I love it! It was -- yeah. No. We could do a whole episode just on that, the non-subtle moments that we love.

Anika and Liz: [laugh]

Liz: I think that character-dragged-kicking-and-screaming-into-becoming-a-better-person is the arc that I really, really wanted for Seska, and I just blogged "Basics" part 2, and so I'm freshly angry all over again, after twenty-four years, about how she was killed off, and how her whole arc went. Because it made no sense whatsoever. And she was such a great character! And unlike most of the female villains in Star Trek, she wasn't sexualised, even when she's doing ridiculous MRA-fantasy things--

Anika: Sexy stuff.

Liz: --like stealing Chakotay's DNA and impregnating herself with it.

Anika: Ugh.

Liz: Like, she was such a great foil for both Chakotay and Janeway, the same way Dukat matches both Kira and Sisko. Just -- missed opportunities.

Anika: So I watched "Worst Case Scenario", because I wanted to end on a high note going into this. Not on "Basics" part 2. But in "Worst Case Scenario", it's proven that Seska, you know, had Tuvok's game before Tuvok was afraid of her. And it's just so good! And a year after she's died, she's still causing problems on the ship and could blow it up.

Jules: God, yes.

Anika: And almost does, you know, almost succeeds. And that's just, you know, it was like, that was a better send-off for the character I wanted her to be.

Jules: Absolutely.

Anika: I think that--

Liz: But I'm--

Anika: Go ahead.

Liz: Oh, I'm just -- when I think about Seska staying on board, and, you know, messing with Janeway's head, and Chakotay's -- and then Seven of Nine's! Like, there were so many potential good stories here.

Jules: Lord.

Anika: Like, you know "The Voyager Conspiracy", when Seven of Nine starts doing all of these algorithms in her head, and realises everybody--

Liz: Yeah?

Anika: So, imagine the version of that story where, halfway through, she goes and lets Seska out of her quarters that she's been, like, imprisoned in the entire time. It would be so good!

Jules: Good Lord, yes.

Liz: I'm just thinking about that episode, and realising what a perfect match Seven and Raffi are. Just give me a minute here.

Anika: Awwww!

Jules: Yes!

Liz: Oh! They can set up a conspiracy wall in their quarters, it'll be so nice.

Jules: With Elnor just kind of hanging around outside, like, "What do you need, Mom? Moms?"

Liz and Anika: [laugh and sigh happily]

Liz: Anyway.

Anika: I've considered Seska for too many hours of my life, and so I can explain all of her terrible choices that she makes, and how she traps herself in her own horrible ending because of all the terrible choices that she makes. And how it all comes down to -- even though we're not calling the Cardassian race a villain -- being raised within the Cardassian race, and the Cardassian culture, is definitely responsible for everything that Seska does.

She is both -- like, she can't respect Janeway because she's pure Federation, but also because she's a woman, and she also is afraid of Janeway for those reasons.

Liz: That's interesting.

Anika: And so she runs away to the Kazon, somewhere where she understands the rules of the game, because they're very patriarchal, and they're very -- you know, and she knows how to manipulate people within that place. And she doesn't know how to do it on Voyager.

Jules: You know, it's interesting that you bring that up, because what I've noticed, and what's really interesting to me, on DS9, is that, yes, Cardassian society seems to have these very strict gender roles. Men are good at military, and honestly, emotional stuff, it seems like. There's famous Cardassian architects, and artists, and stuff, and their military readers. And women are good at science, and engineering, and in some ways it's just like, okay, got it, it's an inverse of western human stereotypes.

Liz: But still a patriarchy!

Jules: But the Obsidian Order is largely both. We see a lot of men--

Anika: yes, it's true.

Jules: --We see a lot of women. Like, a lot of -- fairly mixed gender, actually. Like, it's not -- there's some women, there's some men. I find that interesting, especially watching, like, Picard, where it's like, you've got the -- the Tal Shiar were introduced to it in a Troi episode.

Liz: Right, they were very feminist.

Anika: Yes, they definitely are.

Jules: Yeah, the Tal Shiar, let alone the Zhat Vash, we learn about later, and the Qowat Milat, who seem to be largely, if not entirely, female. I find it very interesting that the Obsidian Order, then, seems to be fairly mixed gender, and oddballs of all genders, maybe.

Liz: It's sort of the place where, in a repressive society, your weirdos and outliers have an outlet, but are also watched very closely.

Jules: Which is very much the early history of the CIA, honestly.

Liz: Yeah!

Jules: Like, if you look at the OSS, the predecessor to the CIA, it was very much, like, weirdos, circus acrobats, and people who could do weird puzzles, and it was just -- it was all sorts of weirdos. Yeah, to some extent, it's like, well, you know what? They can come up with crazy stuff, let's have them working for us, and this way we can keep an eye on them as well.

Liz: Right! Yes.

Anika: Yes.

Liz: I find that really interesting, and contrasting the Tal Shiar against the Obsidian Order is sort of my new hobby.

Jules: Yes. Oh, there's plenty of that. Honestly, I'm like -- I'm going off track a little here, but I get a little annoyed by everyone, Chabon included, saying, like, "Well, we couldn't really fit DS9 into Picard."

Liz: I know!

Jules: I'm like, uh, you know, if nothing else, I'd like to know about how the Founders -- or how the Tal Shiar survived the battle of the Omarian Nebula, which is said to be the equivalent of Wolf 359 for them. I would love to know about Subcommander T'Rul. DS9 did a lot with the Romulans, and excuse me, you know who the one person, at least one person in the Federation wasn't totally lauding Picard as a hero after "Best of Both Worlds" was, it was Sisko! I'm like, uh, you know, I feel like there's stuff there!

Anika: I think that it would have been less disingenuous for them to just say, "We chose not to, maybe next season," or something. Rather than, "We couldn't fit it in." It just seems like, "Oh, we really, really wanted to, we tried." I mean, that sounds just like the cat and Elnor. You didn't try hard enough if it didn't get into the show!

Jules: Yes!

Anika: So stop whinging and--

Jules: Bring in DS9--

Anika: --just admit that you didn't do it.

Jules: Oh, come on, Siddig and Robinson would totally be into some kind of arc where you finally have Garak and Bashir get together.

Anika: Absolutely!

Liz: Right!

Jules: And, you know, Laris and Zhaban totally know Garak. Come on.

Anika: Exactly! There's so many little ways that you could have had this sort of domestic idea of seeing Deep Space 9 people, and yet, totally with the plot of spies and disenfranchised people. It's like, hello! That's what Deep Space 9 is about!

Jules: Come on. Yeah.

Liz: We could have literally visited the station, and seen how it looks, you know, twenty, thirty years later, and -- are there more Federation elements in its design? Are there more Bajoran elements in its design? How is Bajor changed by being part of the Federation?

Jules: They literally were like, "Let's take Agnes to DS … 12." I'm like, there was just enough of a pause. And I'm like, screw you. Screw you! Especially after they had a couple -- they had, like, two different lines connecting Rios to Deep Space 9. And then a third, that I was like -- no, they had one -- yeah, they had a bunch of different lines connecting Rios to DS9. And I was like, you're just teasing me at this point. I'm mad. I'm mad about it. And I'm like, oh! Like, I get it, on the one hand, okay, DS9 is very self-contained compared to some other Treks. But also--

Liz: It is, but if you're going to bring back a Voyager character as obscure as Icheb, then you can do more than just shout out "Mr Quark of Ferenginar".

Jules: Yeah. Exactly. And I love Quark. Honestly, [he's] like [an] anti-villain, in some regards.

Liz: That reminds me! When I was in grade nine, we had a thing in English class, where it was like, "Name a villain in television or books!" And one of the three Nicoles in my class mentioned Quark. And I was like, (a) that is OUTRAGEOUS, Quark is NOT a villain, he is … Quark! These days I'd call him an antagonist, I don't think I knew that word then. Maybe I learned it in that lesson.

But the other thing was that this particular Nicole was very, very cool, and I was like, "How does someone that cool know about Star Trek? I wish I had the courage to talk to her. I really like her purple hair, and we go to the same church, maybe we shave some stuff in common." Never actually spoke to her.

Jules: If you're out there somewhere, listening, Nicole, come on, get in touch and explain the mystery of how you know that!

Liz: And also, I really liked how your purple hair faded into silver, it was very cool. Yeah, Quark is not a villain, but at the same time, he does truly egregious things, and kind of gets away with them.

Jules: Yeah.

Liz: I'm thinking, not just of that time he sold weapons to a terrorist organisation, but stuff like, uh, making a pornographic holosuite program based on Kira.

Jules: Yeah! Which is--

Anika: He's definitely involved in more than one murder plot.

Jules: Yeah. And it's -- I mean, I've gone into this rant so many times personally, and on my blog, and everywhere. I'm just, like, if Quark is a collaborator, which Kira says at one point, she's like, "I don't trust you because you're a collaborator." I'm like, if Quark is a collaborator--

Liz: So is Odo.

Jules: --why isn't Odo? And why aren't we treating Odo with the same amount of suspicion that we're treating Quark?

Liz: Right.

Jules: And I'm just, like, you know? And Quark, honestly, a lot of this is down to Armin Shimmerman's performance. Because he really just elevates this character--

Anika: Oh, absolutely.

Jules: --who could have been just -- yeah, just such a caricature, and so one-note and ridiculous, and manages to kind of -- yeah, give him a lot of depth.

Anika: All three of the Ferengi are kind of amazing, in that you go into Deep Space 9 thinking the Ferengi are a one-note joke at best--

Liz: And a pretty offensive joke, at that.

Anika: --and offensive, and racist, and antisemitic, and horrible at worst. But all three of them raise those characters to something amazing. You can start rooting for them, even if you acknowledge that they -- especially Quark is on the wrong side on more than one occasion.

Jules: Yeah. And yet--

Anika: He's someone that you root for, and that you care about, and you become invested in.

Liz: And through them, you know, all of the other Ferengi that they deal with become more interesting. Ishka, the Nagus, Brunt.

Anika: Yeah, absolutely.

Jules: Yeah. I'm like, honestly, we could do a sequel to your Mother's Day episode just talking about Ishka, I feel like.

Liz: Ohhhhhhhh. The thing with Quark's villainy is that I just kind of wish there had been, like, a jail set, and occasionally Quark is in prison, and there's a subplot about him … I don't know, trying to turn a profit smuggling contraband, or sneaking access to the guards' replicator which produces better rations. Something like that. And it's one of those things where I think Babylon 5 looked at what Deep Space 9 was doing and went, "Yeah, nah." Because that one had a whole arc about a character -- a regular -- doing something terrible and then spending half a season in prison for it.

Jules: I mean, that is kind of what they did with Garak? They just skipped over the prison part, and suddenly he shows up. He attempts to commit genocide and gets, you know, six months in prison.

Liz: Oh, that zany Garak!

Jules: Whoops!

Liz: They did it with Kasidy, too--

Anika: I was going to say, Kasidy--

Liz: --with her involvement in the Maquis.

Anika: Kasidy had to go to prison.

Jules: Kasidy -- I don't know. See, Kasidy, I'm kind of like, ugh, she wasn't smuggling weapons, she was smuggling, like, medical supplies. And she kind of knew it was the Maquis, but she was like -- it was sort of like an "I'm not asking a lot of questions" situation, and it was medical supplies, I dunno. Honestly, I'm like, I get why, and I don't object to the arc of having Sisko's girlfriend -- but also, I'm like, ehhhh, I don't consider that really villainous.

Liz: You feel like she needs a better lawyer, and also it's kind of weird how black women get much heavier sentences when white men do much worse things?

Jules: Yeah, isn't it weird.

Liz: Yeah, it's so strange.

Anika: So weird.

Jules: Garak gets six months for attempted genocide, and Kasidy gets at least that for smuggling medical supplies to ex-Federation colonies that might be associated with the Maquis.

Anika: And also, the Maquis are not exactly unsympathetic.

Jules: I mean, that's sort of the point of those episodes.

Liz: Yeah! This is why I don't really buy the argument that Star Trek -- that Deep Space 9 is the only non-racist Star Trek.

Jules: Yyyyyyyyyyeah.

Liz: Like, it had its issues as much as anyone else, if not more so, purely because of the opportunity of having more people of colour.

Jules: And it did pretty well in a lot of regards.

Liz: Oh yeah!

Jules: Especially compared to other Star Treks. But that's not the same as being free of all issues.

Liz: It's still an all-male and nearly all-white writing room. And I'm pretty sure the only man of colour in there was Naren Shankar, who is Indian-American, not African-American, and so has different experiences. No shade on Shankar, I like him, but--

Jules: Oh no. God, yeah. The Expanse is, like, the only sci-fi series my dad admits to liking.

Anika: Awww!

Liz: It's just so good!

Jules: I'm like, Mom! And my mom has watched Star Trek from the beginning. I'm like, Mom, you married a man who doesn't like science fiction. She's like--

Liz: I love The Expanse, but I could never do a podcast about it, because it's so good.

Jules: Yeah. No, absolutely.

Liz: We couldn't have this conversation about The Expanse.

Jules: No, yeah, absolutely.

Anika: Sorry, now I'm just trying to come up with topic ideas for The Expanse.

Liz: [laughs]

Anika: Sorry!

Jules: Yes!

Liz: Okay, I do think that its treatment of Naomi is not as good as the books, and particularly in that season where she disagrees with everyone, and they treat her like sit for most of the season?

Jules: Agreed.

Liz: That was terrible, and also subtextually bad. And I don't like the decision to combine the characters of Drummer and -- oh shoot. Michio Pa. Because I love Michio and I love Drummer, but Michio's role in the books is going to diverge pretty heavily from Drummer's. Anyway. That's The Expanse.

Anika: Julie Mao deserved better.

Liz: Yeah. Julie Mao always deserves better.

Jules: Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, in fairness, I feel like that's one of the points of the books.

Liz: Yeah, particularly the later books, but the first one is such a straight-up fridging that it's just depressing.

Jules: Yeah. No, that's what I enjoy about them, though, that later they're like, yeah…

Liz: Oh yeah, I love seeing the writers grow and improve, and their characters becoming more diverse and more complicated. And I think -- I have never seen men write an abusive relationship from the woman's point of view as well as they wrote Naomi and what's his face. The guy who needs a punch. Like, that -- seeing these guys level up is absolutely remarkable.

Jules: Yes.

Liz: Back to Star Trek.

Jules: I mean, Shankar got his start on Star Trek.

Liz: Right, it's totally on topic.

Jules: It's a reasonable transition.

Liz: I was going to say that, until Narissa came along, I would have said that Star Trek was mostly past sexualising its female villains? Like, there's Georgiou, but I wouldn't say she's objectified.

Jules: Yeah, no. She's gorgeous and sexy, but it's sort of incidental.

Liz: Yeah, even the scene where she sleeps with the two sex workers, and we see her in her uncomfortable-looking leather corset, like, it didn't feel exploitative. Whereas Narissa -- I feel like--

Jules: Yeah.

Liz: --the writing for Narissa and Narek really dropped the ball. We could have seen them as people sooner, and we didn't.

Jules: And what frustrates me, especially with Narissa -- and honestly, there's an episode of DS9 where I feel the same way about this, where I'm like, this is a great episode that explores the complexity of this, and it should have happened sooner. But, like, when we find out with Narissa that her aunt, the woman who raised them--

Anika: Ramdha.

Jules: --was -- that Ramdha, that her Auntie Ramdha, was assimilated, and was also initially going to be part of the Zhat Vash, and didn't, or maybe did survive the Admonition, it's not totally clear that she totally made it through unscathed -- I'm like, you know, this is really interesting, what you're doing with her here, with Narissa, and it should have happened a lot earlier.

Anika: Yeah. So I recently -- I didn't rewatch the series, but I was watching all of the episodes in order to get clips for my vids. And it's the episode after -- so I guess it's like the fourth episode, the episode after the cell scene with Ramdha and Soji happens, where Ramdha tries to kill herself and Soji saves her, and then she's in a coma for the rest of the series.

So the next episode, Soji is with Ramdha in a scene that very much parallels the later scene with Narissa. And Narek surprises her there, and she's like, "Are you following me?" And he says, "No."

And I was like, oh my God, I believe him! He's just checking on his aunt!

Jules: Awwww!

Anika: And I wish I had known that! I wish that their stuff was introduced before that, so that it wasn't like this afterthought. You know, going back, I have this realisation, because now I'm just like, oh! So, yeah.

Jules: You know, it comes back, I think, to Chabon not being a television writer, first and foremost. Because I could see that being the kind of thing you sort of hint at over a hundred pages or so.

Liz: Yeah.

Jules: And then rereading, and being like, oh, yeah, I see what you're doing there.

Anika: Right.

Jules: But on a TV show, you don't have the room to kind of hint at that here and there, and then come back to it later, when you actually get a scene with these characters -- one of these characters, even -- and Ramdha, and be, like, oh, I see. Yes.

Liz: It's the same with Narek's throwaway line in the very final episode, that he's a Zhat Vash washout. It would have been really nice to know that, like, episodes and episodes ago.

Jules: Yeah.

Anika: I was saying that, like, Narek and Narissa both finally get actual characterisation in the very end of the plot, and I feel like -- I still feel like it's partially some kind of -- they were trying to trick us into hating them, and then were like, "Oh, don't hate them!" And it's like, no, you're just -- this is not good storycraft.

Liz: Right.

Anika: This is not working.

Liz: And I think setting out to trick your audience is bad writing. You can set out to surprise your audience, but tricking them is not playing fair.

Jules: I should be able to go back and rewatch, and be, like, oh, okay, I see X, Y and Z clues now.

Anika: Like in The Good Place. The Good Place does it well.

Liz: I was going to say, like season 1 of Discovery, when everything Lorca is doing makes sense, and suddenly you see him doing so many things at once, and they're all creepy.

Anika: That's true.

Jules: And I remember, initially, I think, Liz, you may have been the one who linked me to, initially, the theory that Lorca was from the mirror universe.

Liz: Oh, was I?

Jules: Maybe! I don't know. I heard it somewhere, and I think you were the main person I was talking to about it.

Liz: Huh!

Jules: There was this theory that Lorca was from the mirror universe. And I was, like, that's weird. And I guess I kind of see where they're getting it, but I don't know. And this was during the hiatus between the first half and second half of the seasons, and I was like, that is weird, that is reaching, I dunno. And then the first episode of the second half of the first season happened, and I was like, I'm onboard. You know what? Suddenly I see it. And I was totally wrong about his motivations, but even then, at that point, I was like, yep, I see it and I buy it.

Liz: I remember seeing that theory around, like, from about the mid-point of the first half of the first season. And I didn't really care for it, because I felt like, obviously Ash is a Klingon, and we can't have two imposters, that's ridiculous!

Anika: [laughs]

Liz: But also, I felt like Lorca was just a straight-up Starfleet captain who is broken by trauma, and this is like the crew's perspective on that old TOS story of the captain who goes crazy and declares himself a god, or whatever.

Jules: Which is also -- I mean, you say TOS, but also TNG. I mean, that's basically the plot of -- dammit, what's that episode? The first one with the Cardassians.

Liz: Yeah!

Jules: I mean, it's that one. And I've said, that's "Battle at the Binary Stars". "The Wounded"! Like, if someone had intervened.

Liz: And part of why Lorca works so well as a villain is that all the clues are things that we, as a society, are trained and programmed to overlook and forgive. "Oh, he's manipulative? Oh, he treats women badly? Oh well, he's just, you know, he has a lot of pain."

Jules: "He's damaged."

Liz: "He'll get better." Yeah. And I was totally wrong, and I own that.

Jules: Even us, misandrist as we are!

Liz: Right!

Jules: Reasonably misandrist.

Anika: I think that I really appreciate Lorca's story as a story, and as plot, and as -- I appreciate it. And I love it, I love the fact that Lorca ends up the villain in the end. But I end up not liking Lorca, either as a villain or as not-a-villain? Just end up being like, oh, so he's--

Jules: I get exactly what you mean.

Anika: It's this weird thing, where, because I was sort of on his side up unto a point, and then he become a monster -- and completely a monster. He has -- "Oh, if you were hoping for me to now move into my -- I've become better by being in the Federation for six months," that's not gonna happen.

Jules: Yeah, they basically swap him for Georgiou.

Anika: Right. Which is great for the story. But for him as a character, I no longer care about him.

Liz: I just transferred all of my feelings about Lorca to the version of prime!Lorca that exists only in my head. And the good news is that he sort of seems to match up with other people's versions, so I feel like I'm on the right track. And it doesn't look like Discovery's doing anything with that character anymore, so he's mine, now.

Jules: I mean, this sounds like -- I think you prompted me, and I have so many scenes written, of the fic where prime!Lorca gets dumped on DS9, and he and Kira prime end up kind of together. And I'm like, yes. And, well, the way I'm writing it is that he ends up -- well, at this point in the mirror universe's timeline, Bajor has been conquered by the Terran Empire. And so, presumably, it would not be difficult, out at the edge of Empire space, if they were trying to go into hiding for mirror!Michael, who is associated with the rebellion, and prime!Lorca, who she has realised is not her Lorca, and needs to get to protection because he's relatively innocent, to end up hitting the wormhole.

Liz: And, whoops, time travel.

Jules: Exactly!

Anika: [laughs]

Jules: And, you know, the Prophets are like, yeah, sure, whatever. Let's dump 'em out anywhere. Anywhere, any time.

Liz: I feel like the Prophets do a lot of things for the lols. And, actually, coming back to our regular topic, I can't remember who it is, but one of my friends has my theory that the ultimate villains of the Star Trek universe are the Prophets.

Jules: Oh yeah! I mean, this comes back to -- honestly, I think when we were discussing this episode, Anika, you sent a list of, like, villains in Star Trek.

Anika: Yeah, a hilarious list.

Jules: And one of them was God!

Anika: One of them was God.

Liz: [laughs]

Anika: It was great.

Jules: As a Jew, during Passover, I'm like, yeah. God's a villain.

Liz: It's Good Friday, I can get behind that. But yeah, the reason that I would argue that the Prophets are the villains -- well, villainous, if not the ultimate villain, is the whole thing with Sarah Sisko, where they just straight up possess and have impregnated this human woman. And, again, the all-male writing room doesn't seem to realise what they've done?

Anika: No, no, yeah. They absolutely do not.

Jules: Yes! Although what's interesting -- my roommate, Mindy, who I introduced to Star Trek, and got into it via Discovery, and I was like, if you like Discovery, maybe try DS9 next. And is now super into Star Trek. She was like, "Hey, so," as we were going through DS9 together, she was like, "Hey, so what if -- bear with me here -- what if Sisko's mother was a Prophet?"

Liz and Anika: [laugh]

Jules: And I was like, "Mindy! Are you Catholic, by any chance?"

Liz: [laughing in Catholic]

Jules: Yeah, I'm like, of course, the lapsed Catholic in the apartment is like, "Hey, so is Sisko's mom a Prophet?" I was like, yep. Yep. Because God's a jerk!

Liz: The difference is that the angel asked. Like, the Prophets--

Jules: That's true!

Liz: Prophets are not very much into consent.

Jules: Prophets don't.

Liz: The irony is that, in Star Trek V, God is a pretty disappointing villain.

Anika: [laughs] I know.

Jules: yeah!

Anika: He really is.

Jules: Honestly, makes a better character in the Futurama episode where Bender is like, "Unless you're NOT God, but the remains of a computerised probe that collided with God!"

Liz: I've seen that movie, too.

Jules: Honestly, that's a great episode. It's one of my favourites of Futurama. It's brilliant.

Liz: Man, it has been so long since I watched Futurama.

Jules: It's so good.

Liz: Can I ask -- Anika, I think it was you who added General Chang to our list, and I'm a bit miffed, because you both had your own villain, Seska and Lorca. And then I was going to choose General Chang, and you STOLE him from me!

Anika: You SAID that Lorca was your villain!

Liz: I know.

Anika: You said, "Jules has Dukat, and you have Seska, and I so I get one too," and then, in parentheses, you put, "Lorca." So I took that to mean--

Liz: I know, I know--

Jules: I feel like I haven't talked that much about Dukat, honestly.

Liz: Lorca is basically Dukat, but prettier.

Jules: Yeah! I think I remember us saying, at one point, in email, early in the first season of Discovery, I was like, I feel like they're the AU I've written in drafts, that I have in Google Docs, the "female Sisko/Dukat" AU. And you were like, "I got a very Sisko/Dukat vibe off of them, and I wasn't sure whether to say it or not." And I'm like, yes. Yes, that is--

Liz: I was obviously seeing red flags, and choosing to ignore them!

Jules: Yep!

Anika: [laughs]

Jules: Love it.

Liz: Whereas General Chang is just red flags all the way down, and completely unignorable.

Anika: He embraces it!

Liz: Right! And I know I was saying that I don't really love the Klingons as bad guys, but he thinks he's the hero! And he's the charismatic troll who is twirling in his chair, quoting Shakespeare as he fires on the Enterprises!

Anika: I only have three notes, and I'm kind of proud of them, so I'm just gonna read them to you guys.

Liz: Yes?

Jules: Please!

Anika: Number one, played by Captain Von Trapp. Number two, close personal relationship with Shakespeare. And number three, extra AF.

Liz: [laughs] It's true! And I think Star Trek VI is a great movie, and very nearly flawless, but I just cannot imagine it being a fraction as much fun without Christopher Plummer.

Anika: Oh no! He's the -- everything. The parts of Star Trek VI that I love, I really love. And the parts of Star Trek VI that I don't like, I really don't like. So it's not my favourite. But everything about General Chang, and really, his entire conspiracy -- and all of the Klingons -- is great.

Jules: That's such a racist name, though.

Liz: Oh yeah.

Anika: Yes.

Jules: I mean, speaking of Star Trek, and its racist villains, I'm like, oh no.

Liz: It's also the one where the Romulans are just straight-up wearing qipao. So. Yeah.

Jules: I'm sorry, I interrupted there. But I'm also, like, oh, Star Trek.

Anika: Oh, no, it's very--

Jules: Sometimes -- oh, Star Trek. Sometimes you get it right--

Liz: Truthfully, and this is embarrassing, General Chang has been part of my landscape for so many decades that it has only just now occurred to me that that is super racist.

Jules: I mean--

Anika: I think it's just -- it plays off of the Kang and Kor and whatever the other one was.

Jules: Absolutely.

Anika: They were going for that, and they didn't notice it was racist, I think is the truth. But there was no one to say, "Hey, guys, bad idea." I mean, it's the same as in Picard, when they kill off all of the black men, and it's like, guys? Why are you doing this? They just don't notice.

Jules: Exactly.

Anika: No one is watching with that point of view.

Jules: That's why you need diversity behind the camera as well as in front of it. Yeah.

Liz: Exactly. I don't even know who is writing on season 2 of Picard, but I feel like it's mostly the same people, but just less Chabon. So. Oh God.

Jules: I mean, that could be okay. I guess. I mean, Chabon -- he just -- he needs to learn how to write for TV. He's writing like a novelist, where -- yeah.

Anika: He's leaving to do his adaptation of his own work, which I think he'll be much better at. Because he won't have to do any of the worldbuilding, it'll just be, you know, "I already know where this story is going, I just have to do it for TV." And he's learned. And so now he can (inaudible) that.

Jules: Yes.

Anika: And grow.

Jules: And so much of Picard, I'm like -- as we said, like with Narissa, my moment where I'm like, wow, you actually brought some humanisation to this character. I mean, for want of a better word than humanisation. Like, you made me believe this character as a person--

Anika: Nuance.

Jules: It was way too late. It was good--

Anika: I mean, not for me. [laughs]

Jules: --but you should have at least been hinting at it earlier. And I'm like, that's the kind of thing that a novelist could do. You could drop hints earlier and earlier that I wouldn't pick up -- that I might pick up on, but wouldn't pick up on and see spelled out until later. I'm like, mm, yeah.

Liz: I will say, regarding the villains in Picard, Oh was very one-note, but because she survived, I feel like there's room for her to come back and level up to be a more interesting character, and a better foil for Picard.

Jules: Oh, absolutely.

Anika: Yes.

Liz: They could even, like … meet.

Jules: Absolutely. That would rule.

Anika: They could meet. [laughs]

Liz: Well, it's just -- one of the problems [with Picard is] that we have all these antagonists who -- like, Picard doesn't interact with Oh once.

Jules: Yeah. Okay, so here's my question: difference between a villain and antagonist. We touched on this a little at the beginning, but villain versus antagonist. What's sort of the difference, at least in the context of Star Trek? Or specifically in the context of Star Trek?

Liz: Partially, I think it's just body count? Like, normally I would say that an antagonist is someone who genuinely believes, or at least hopes, that they're doing the right thing -- or, at least, that they're doing the wrong thing for the right reasons. Like, I think of Kylo Ren pre-redemption as an antagonist, not a villain. Whereas I would say Snoke is a villain.

But with Star Trek, like, I would say that Oh is more of an antagonist than a villain, but at the same time, she was pretty keen to commit genocide. So, like, where do you draw the line?

Jules: Yeah. Although, by her standards--

Anika: She's--

Jules: I mean, that's sort of where antagonist versus villain comes in, for me, is that by her standards, it wasn't really genocide.

Anika: She was saving all those people.

Jules: Yeah.

Liz: By her standards, that was less of a genocide than what Kat Cornwell attempted to do on Qo'noS.

Anika: Right. Because she just didn't even see them as people.

Liz: Right.

Anika: And not even in the way that you can say that about anyone who's a bad guy, even on Earth, you know, that they don't see [their victims] as people. But, like, they are literally machines. And so--

Liz: It's like the equivalent of throwing iPhones in the recycling.

Anika: So we believe they're people, but -- right.

Liz: I guess, on the whole, I would say she is more of an antagonist than a villain? And also because she is very powerful but very remote, and she has some one-liners, and some sharp shoulders that basically scream, "Hello, I am evil." But she's not literally twirling her moustache, because she's half-Vulcan, and they have more dignity than that. And I would say Kai Winn is an antagonist, rather than a villain. Because, although she does some fairly terrible things, she also is capable of a certain amount of heroism, and there are times when she has put Bajor above her own ambition.

Jules: Like when she kills my favourite villain ever? Yes?

Liz: Right!

Jules: God bless her, that's why I love her! I'm like, yes!

Anika: [laughing] "God bless her".

Jules: She kills Dukat. God bless her. You know why--

Liz: She's a very complicated antagonist!

Jules: She is, and I love her.

Liz: I think that, like Seska, she deserved a better end.

Jules: Yeah.

Anika: She definitely deserved a better end. But, I mean, I think that Deep Space 9 deserved a better end is really what the truth is.

Jules: Yeah. Well. Yeah.

Anika: Sorry. That's where I land.

Jules: That's -- yeah.

Anika: [laughs]

Liz: My last rewatch, we stopped the episode before Jadzia died, and we have no regrets.

Jules: That's a good choice.

Liz: Actually, no, I have one regret, and that's that you can't have Ezri and Jadzia at the same time.

Jules: Yeah!

Liz: See, Ezri could have been leading that fleet at the end of Picard.

Jules: We should had a whole--

Anika: Yes!

Jules: Ezri and Worf!

Liz: Right! I really like the idea of Ezri becoming Worf's first officer!

Jules: I assumed Worf would lead the fleet!

Liz: Yeah, same!

Jules: That the Enterprise would lead the fleet to rescue them, and I was like, that would be amazing, give me Worf. Oh, I love that, now that you mention it, Ezri as Worf's first officer.

Anika: That would be so good!

Jules: I'm like, yes!

Liz: I feel like she'd be an older first officer? But, at the same time, if she's switched at a later stage from counselling to command--

Anika: And I don't think she would care. She wouldn't care about--

Liz: Right! She's three hundred and fifty years old!

Anika: Right! So she doesn't -- like, titles and ranks, that doesn't matter.

Jules: Who cares, yeah.

Anika: She's going where she's needed. And Worf definitely needs her as his first officer!

Jules: Yes! [laughs]

Anika: It's perfect!

Jules: I love it!

Liz: And also, like, I realise it's technically reassociation, but Worf isn't a Trill, so…

Jules: And also, Worf's not into it at this point.

Liz: Right! He's moved on. We hope.

Jules: He's like, okay, we tried that, and it didn't work. So, no.

Anika: Yeah, like, they just have a great relationship, now. A great--

Jules: It would be amazing. Now I want that so much. Oh!

Anika: I know! I'm angry all over again!

Jules: I'm so mad. Ezri and Julian and Garak have some weird polyamorous relationship going on, and--

Liz: One hundred percent.

Jules: Yeah, that's what I want.

Liz: Yeah. [sigh]

Jules: Good Lord, yes.

Liz: I think, as with so much of Star Trek, the version of Picard that exists in our heads is a bit better than the one on the screen.

Jules: Yeah.

Anika: Yeah. Well.

Liz: And that's frustrating, but it's also okay.

Anika: It's also okay.

Liz: I guess.

Jules: I mean, that's where the best fanfic comes from. And these days--

Anika: I was sort of, you know, when we were talking about Narissa and Narek earlier, and how they don't get any, you know, actual character and everything, and yet they were my favourite from basically episode two? And it's sort of, like, so you can tell the least developed and most chaotic character on the show is going to be my favourite. And that's just the way it is.

Liz: You have a type.

Anika: I have a type.

Liz: Yeah.

Jules: You have a type! I mean, I--

Liz: Admiral Clancy walked in, and I fell in love!

Jules and Anika: [laugh]

Jules: I just -- yeah.

Anika: I'm okay with it. I know who I am. I know what I like.

Jules: And, let's be real, today's fanfic writers are tomorrow's bestselling writers, and head staff writers, and -- yeah. I mean -- you know.

Anika: Absolutely.

Jules: I was delighted -- yeah, well, I'll leave that for another time, but the golem--

Liz: No, no! I did want to ask if you had any particular Jewish perspective on that.

Jules: I was delighted that the golem was introduced as sort of a value-neutral thing? Because I see it as sort of a -- that's a step forward, basically. I often see it in video games, and in other stuff, the golem as a bad thing. It's scary, and it's Frankenstein, and it's a robot. I'm like, no, golem protects us. A golem was introduced to protect the ghetto from the hordes of angry Christians were going to kill us. I'm like, not the golem is--

Liz: Much like Picard is protecting the synths from the hordes of angry Romulans!

Jules: I'm like, yeah!

Liz: I didn't know that!

Jules: Golem is -- at worst, it's a neutral thing. At best, it's kind of, like, you know, it's our thing to protect us. Which is interesting -- Michael Chabon's breakthrough novel, The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay, includes a character -- I mean, it's an alternate version of the origin of Superman.

Liz: Oh!

Jules: And basically it makes it explicit that Superman is a golem. And, also, he's a child who was put in a basket, in a little probe, and sent out into space, into the river, and Superman is Moses, and also the golem. And, yeah. I mean, I could yell for a long time about -- but, yeah, I appreciated that Picard, at least, presents the golem as a very neutral thing, rather than a negative thing.

Liz: See, it was negative to me because that kind of transference is a bit squicky to me. It was, you know, introduced as, "This is what Soong has built for himself!" And I hated Soong, so I didn't like it. But I also sensed that I was missing something, and now you've provided that missing piece. So I'm very grateful to have that extra context.

Jules: There you go! And I'm also, like -- my mom was like, "Oh, they've solved all the problems with Picard, where else is there to go?" I'm like, that's really interesting, though! You still have places to go, like, because this is kind of an artificial body.

Liz: Yeah!

Jules: And you still have places to go, especially the Borg. I'm like, uh, from some regards, if you look at it the wrong way, the Borg are the golem gone wrong.

Liz: That makes me think of "Descent", which I've been doing far too much, lately, for a terrible two-parter, but the whole thing with that two-parter was that Lore was offering the Borg the chance to become fully artificial, and to shed their organic parts.

Anika: Right.

Liz: That's really interesting. And I do think that there is more story to tell, not just in terms of Picard having a few extra decades in which to age naturally, but in terms of -- all his friends just watched him die, and now he's here, and he's fine.

Anika: It's a little weird!

Liz: Yeah! And I feel like Elnor is going to voice that weirdness very loudly. And if Deanna sees him, will she be able to sense his emotions, and if she can't, will that freak her out? Because I can see that freaking her the fuck out.

Anika: [laughs]

Liz: Most importantly, how is Beverly going to react, and where was their relationship before, and where is it going to go now? (I have priorities, and I don't apologise for them.)

Anika: You've have priorities!

Jules: You do. Yes. I feel like we've strayed from villains, but I don't care.

Liz: Well, I just wanted to ask you about the golem thing, because I knew that you would have something to say about it--

Jules: Oh yes.

Liz: --and that it would be very intelligent.

Jules: Oh, thank you! I'm flattered. That is very kind. Given the fights I've gotten into on the internet, and -- thank you! I'm flattered.

Liz: You're very welcome, but it was only a statement of fact.

Anika: And don't take fights on the internet too seriously.

Jules: Thank you!

Anika: Or too much to heart.

Jules: Thank you! Villains, though. Yes.

Liz: I do think that a story suffers without a good antagonist. And they don't necessarily need to be a bad person?

Jules: Absolutely.

Anika: Definitely true.

Liz: Even a force of nature can be an antagonist. But in the western storytelling tradition, it is something that's beneficial to have.

Jules: I mean, Jurassic Park is my favourite villain -- my favourite -- one of my favourite movies. And it's explicitly stated that nature is the villain there.

Anika: Right.

Jules: I sort of hinted at it there with my Freudian slip, but nature--

Liz: The park is the villain!

Jules: You can make me believe pretty much anything is a villain if you do it right.

Liz: Let me introduce you to my cat.

Anika: Aw! I was just looking at my little cat and saying, "You're not a villain, sweetie! I know everyone thinks you are!"

Jules: Oh, my cats--

Anika: My daughter tells me every day that my cat, Sushi (specifically), is a villain. And the only reason I disagree is that she likes me. And so she's never a villain to me, but she is to everyone else.

Liz and Jules: Awwwww!

Liz: Anyway. Anika, would you like to give us an outro?

Anika: Is it time? Yes, yes.

Liz: Yes.

Anika: Okay. Wait, I need to know, what episode are we watching?

Jules: Oh God. I don't know. Let's do -- I feel like we might have things to say about "Things Past" in season four. Or season five, I'm sorry, "Things Past".

Liz: I can't remember which episode that is, so that's exciting. I'm just writing it down.

Jules: It should have happened earlier. But. Yes.

[outro music]

Anika: Thank you for listening to Antimatter Pod.

You can find our show notes at antimatterpod.tumblr.com, including links to our social media and credits for our theme music.

You can also follow us on Twitter at @antimatterpod. Sometimes we post cat pictures, and questions for our audience.

If you like us, leave a review on apple podcasts or wherever you consume your podcasts -- the more reviews, the easier it is for new listeners to find us.

And join us in two weeks when we’ll be discussing the Deep Space 9 episode “Things Past”

Liz and Jules: Yay!

#star trek #star trek: deep space 9 #star trek: picard #podcast #podcast transcripts #antimatter pod

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primatechnosynthpop · 5 years ago

Note

tng and ds9

For TNG:

my all-time ultimate fave character: Hmm... probably Data, although I also really like Dr. Crusher

a character I didn’t used to like but now do: Much like you, I’ve never exactly disliked any tng characters, but I didn’t really appreciate Tasha or Geordi enough when I first watched the show

a character I used to like but now don’t: None, really--I still quite like basically all the characters

a character I’m indifferent about: I know he’s only a minor character in tng but... Miles, I guess

a character who deserved better: Tasha, obviously!

a ship I’ve never been able to get into: Nothing is really springing to mind? I’m the kind of person who’ll ship almost anything within reason, and just about every tng ship I’ve seen posited I’ve thought “yeah, I could get into that”

a ship I’ve never been able to get over: idk, man, it’s been such a while since I’ve watched much tng that I’m just not as invested in it as I was back in the day. Daforge is really good, of course, and so is Qcard--although I remember being a hardcore Picard/Crusher shipper back when I first watched the show

a cute, low-key ship: Tasha/Troi is really cute! Sure it’s technically a tragic pairing if you acknowledge Tasha’s canonical fate but who here is gonna acknowledge such a thing? Certainly not I!

an unpopular ship but I still enjoyed it: I thought Troi and Worf were cute while they lasted, arguably a better couple than Troi and Riker but that’s just a matter of personal opinion

a ship that was totally wrong and never should have happened: I would say Crusher and the candle ghost, but that’s provided so many choice memes that I can’t imagine a world without it

my favourite storyline/moment: I really like all the episodes with Q, and the ones with Geordi and Data’s holodeck adventures

a storyline that never should have been written: Quite a few of them tbh, especially that one season one episode featuring an alien culture that was just blatantly based on racist stereotypes???

my first thoughts on the show: Huh? What’s this thing my parents are watching on Netflix? Ohh, a space show! How cool!

my thoughts now: Perhaps slightly overrated as far as trek series go, but still pretty good (except for the occasions on which it was, in fact, not good at all)

For DS9:

my all-time ultimate fave character: It’s probably a tie between Dax (both Jadzia and Ezri) and Kira. And Sisko. And Julian. And... okay, I absolutely cannot pick a favourite!

a character I didn’t used to like but now do: I mean, I only watched DS9 for the first time a couple years ago, so my opinions haven’t had all that long to change... I like them all about the same amount I always have

a character I used to like but now don’t: I think I like Odo slightly less than I initially did since some folks on here have pointed out how absolutely whack his character arcs (read: notable character regression!) were

a character I’m indifferent about: Miles again, and also Worf

a character who deserved better: Ziyal and Jadzia, ofc

a ship I’ve never been able to get into: Every canon relationship Kira was in

a ship I’ve never been able to get over: Quodo!!! Obviously!! Like even back when I was first watching the show and quodo was a way less popular ship than it is now I saw a few of their interactions and was like “yeah these guys should smooch”.

a cute, low-key ship: Rom/Leeta is very sweet... Nohjay is cute also!

an unpopular ship but I still enjoyed it: Mayhaps this is cringe of me but. Miles/Julian

a ship that was totally wrong and never should have happened: I don’t really dig Odo/Kira, and of course the whole Dukat/Winn thing towards the end was kinda nasty but that one was nasty on purpose so I can’t really fault the writers for that

my favourite storyline/moment: Gosh, so many... I love love love the scene at the end of “Body Parts” where Quark realizes that he has actual friends who genuinely care about him and will support him!! And I also love “In The Cards” and “Take Me Out to the Holo-suite”. Love to see folks having a good time!

a storyline that never should have been written: Is it cheating if I say Kira/Odo again? Other than that, Jadzia dying the way she did was an awful way to put an end to such a terrific character. If she had to die, it should have been a noble act of self-sacrifice or something, not just getting zapped by the lizard man

my first thoughts on the show: Hrmm I dunno about this one... I’ve heard that it’s not as exciting as the oth--Oh shit it’s actually really amazing and I love it!!

my thoughts now: Arguably the best trek show, even though it definitely had its own slew of issues. 9/10 would watch again

#thanks for the ask and sorry it took so long to get around to answering!#theweefreewomen #asks #star trek #tng #ds9

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sophygurl · 6 years ago

Text

WisCon 42 panel Female Friendship

Female Friendships in Our Stories panel description:

Women are often portrayed as competitive and territorial in media. In science fiction, this can be even stronger as the Smurfette principle often rules, and many of the women characters fill the "not like other girls" trope. It's rare to see genuine female friendships flourish in our stories. For many of us, the "mean girl" trope does not reflect the reality that we live in, and we're hungry for better depictions of our lived experiences. More stories are digging deeper into what female friendships can and do look like, however. Shows like Big Little Lies, Grace and Frankie, and Insecure; as well as female-led movies such as the new Ghostbusters and the Pitch Perfect series are some examples. Few of these are SFF-related though - we need more!

Moderator was Naomi Kritzer, with panelists Karin Gastreich, Crystal Huff, Lauren Jankowski, KJ, and Clarissa C. S. Ryan

Reminder that these panel notes are only my own recollections and the things I managed to write down - my notes are incomplete and likely faulty in places. Corrections and additions are always welcome. Especially please do correct me if I get names or pronouns wrong!

Also I name panelists as that’s publicly available information but not audience members unless requested by that person to have their named added.

[For context - I’ve been proposing a panel like this for years (due in large part to conversations with @prozacpark who sadly was not at-con this year) and was so excited to finally see it happen! It did not disappoint. It gave me ALLLLLL of the feelings and I plan to make some additional posts on the subject once I finish my panel write-ups. This will mostly just be about the panel itself, although knowing me I’ll add in the occasional aside. Also I’m really glad I got to this panel early enough to get a good seat up front because it filled up quickly and became standing room only with people sitting on the floor all over the place. Obviously a topic we WisCon-goers find close to our hearts.]

I neglected to get info down about the panelists introductions - sorry! I did jot down that Clarissa said she occasionally remembers to write male characters because it made me laugh. All of the panelists, I believe, are writers, so do look up their work if you want to find more female friendship rep in your reading!

Naomi started things off asking about the panelists’s fictional favorite female friendships and why they found them interesting. Her example was Anne of Green Gables - Anne and Diana. She liked that Anne comes into the friendship so needy and that Diana just accepts her as-is.

Lauren said Lost Girl’s Bo and Kenzi (YES) and that even tho Bo is attracted to women, she never sexualized Kenzi. (I especially love this in the context that Bo is a succubus and many of her relationships have a sexual component but she never turns that on Kenzi because Kenzi isn’t into that and it’s just inherently accepted between them that they are strictly platonic but deeply entwined friends - haaa see, I told you I’d have asides)

Crystal talked about Cold Magic by Kate Elliot. Crystal said she is unsure if the characters would choose their friendship over their new spouses in the end and has questions about the heteronormativity of that but overall loved the female friendships in the series.

Clarissa is a big fan of the Ghostbusters reboot. She doesn’t ship any of the women together, and finds that puts her on the outside of a lot of the fandom.

KJ reiterated Cold Magic and said that it is about cousins who are raised as sisters but who choose to be friends and the powerfulness of that choice. She also likes Kira and Dax from DS9.

Karin said she had a hard time finding examples from within SFF. She really likes the sister friendship in the Little House books, as well as Simple Magic, the Witches of Eastwick book (not the movie), and The Other Boleyn Girl (book).

Crystal talked about Alyc Holmes’s Dragons of Heaven and the transgressive ways it shows female friendship.

Naomi brought up the issues of shippiness and the line between friendship and romantic relationships and pushback within fandom.

Lauren talked about a personal story she had of a messy end of a friendship because she was told that adoption is pseudo-family as a defense of shipping adopted siblings. As an adoptee, this was very hurtful. She talked about her frustration with shippers who ship romantically and refuse to acknowledge the importance of friendship. The valuing of romance over friendship and friendship not being valid in and of itself. “Friendship is enough.” [I was kind of obnoxiously cheering this on because this is a huge issue for me. This might be the point at which I made some comment about there not being any way to dissuade shippers once they settle on a ship. For the record - I’m a huge shipper myself, I just happen to ALSO ship platonic and familial relationships and get super frustrated at fandom’s seeming inability to look at relationships in any other way than romantic.]

Crystal also talked about the extent that people will go to in order to ship something. She added “I know that my life isn’t mostly centered on getting people into bed.”

Clarissa added - why not both? She does want more queer female romances and finds herself sometimes going “oh they glanced at one another ... oooooh”. But friendship is so devalued and friendship breakups hurt!

Karin asked if making the friends sisters made the pressure to ship less - I mostly cackled from the audience, because no.

Naomi steered the conversation toward the topic of sisterhood - both literal and figurative. Also about friendship breakups. There is the classic romance plot of the couple breaking up and coming back together - do we find that in friendship narratives?

Clarissa said that Ghostbusters had an example of that at the start.

KJ said Buffy and Willow do this a couple of times.

Naomi said she often finds this in middle grade YA because this reflects reality at that age. Then asked about friendship tropes - for example she really loved the idea of blood sisterhood. She grew up in the 80′s when the idea of sharing blood = death and how doing that showed such a deep level of trust.

Crystal said it’s hard to come up with female friendship tropes because of how rare examples of female friendship are. Tropes are the things we see so much of they become ingrained.

Naomi asked - then what should be the tropes?

Karin said it’s hard to find books populated with female characters enough for there to be lots of female friendships in them. She doesn’t like the trope of the friend who only shows up when the main character is having romantic drama in their lives.

KJ she wants more examples of groups of female friends because that’s closer to real life. [YES] If these do exist in fiction, they are more in the background.

Clarissa wants more ride or die friendships. She gives Brooklyn Nine-Nine and Ghostbusters as examples of this.

Naomi wants more moments like the one in Ghosbusters where the one character was talking about her story of being haunted and being made of fun for it as a kid. The other character simply says - I believe you. This is a metaphor for sexual abuse. The validation that women give to one another around this. [Cue me sobbing tbh about being on both sides of this phenomenon]

Crystal wants more female friends who are not Mean Girls to one another. Example: Dreadnaught which is about a trans girl superhero.

Lauren talked about female friendships where the women are being supportive of one another. And women rescuing one another. Some personal stories about women rescuing one another were shared among the panelists.

KJ mentioned the graphic novel series Rat Queens.

Naomi brought up Sarah Dressen’s YA books. The example of a friend rescuing another friend from being left alone with a creepy “family friend”. The protectiveness of female friendships. [Me: crying again.]

Karin said she is all into rescuing between female friendships because we all need rescuing sometimes and thank goodness for the friends who rescue us. It’s a different dynamic than when men rescue women.

Clarissa said her “dirty fandom secret” is that she really loves hurt/comfort stories - they don’t have to be romantic in nature. An example is when she took care of a friend who had recently had surgery. She was like “wow this is so intimate - I’ve never seen your bodily fluids before.” [So much crying/laughing, thinking about taking care of my bestie after her double mastectomy last year.]

Crystal mentioned Foz Meadows - An Accident of Stars.

Lauren said that when she’s down, a friend will share pictures she’s taken of her books in bookstores to cheer her up. She also talked about wanting both more big adventure stories about female friendship, and more small snapshots of life.

Crystal said there is some of that in the Nancy Drew series, but looking back on those today - she is really turned off by the racism.

Naomi asked what is a story arc for friendship?

Crystal said that’s as varied as the individuals, and again there just isn’t enough of it in fiction to map out.

Karin talked about that initial connection or bond upon meeting someone that you know is going to become a friend. But then there is a process of trust building. The climactic moment is when that trust is solidified.

KJ said it’s more of an ebb and flow. She wants more honoring of the variety of friendships that exist as being equally valid.

Clarissa brought up a book - Stiletto? (I didn’t catch full name or author’s name) which includes the enemies to friends narrative.

Naomi said she loves enemies to friends even though she hates enemies to lovers stories.

Crystal said fiction needs to make more narrative sense than real life does, which causes us to simplify how relationships work.

Lauren wants more friendships that start with meet-cutes.

Naomi posited the question of what is a happily ever after for a friendship arc.

Crystal answered - the book isn’t over.

KJ said different friendships would have different happily ever afters.

Clarissa noted that different cultures have different types of friendships. She was talking about how our culture sees romance as the primary relationship in someone’s life and friendship is secondary or even tertiary.

KJ said she’s married to a man who is less social than she is, so she wouldn’t be able to meet all her social needs with him anyway. It’s very important to her to keep her friendships.

Crystal said friendships are often about surviving a thing together. But there is also the idea of creating something together. Naomi said fandom is often built on friendships like that.

Crystal also talked about the idea of rituals in friendships. As society has become less formal, we’ve lost some of those rituals. In fiction, we can create these.

An audience member asked about long distance friendship in fiction. Crystal said - all of my friendships are on the internet! She went on to talk about the tradition of epistolary friendships.

Naomi said the ritual of friendship these days is allowing someone to call us on the phone [HA].

Crystal brought up a book The Belles.

An audience member asked about unique sources of conflict in female friendships. Another audience member shouted out the video game Life is Strange in response.

Crystal said - let’s talk about the elephant in the room: no more conflict about boys. There can be disagreements between friends about politics or moral choices.

Naomi talked about the idea of losing a friend to a boy or the friend who only shows up when they are between relationships. Resolution to a conflict like that is the friend discovering the importance of their friendship.

KJ said another conflict involves distance - either physically moving away or becoming more emotionally distant, even a life change such as one friend having kids and the other one not.

Clarissa talked about trying to hold on to friendships through time and space as something SFF especially could explore.

Crystal added - or something like magical abilities manifesting in one friend but not the other.

Naomi mentioned fanfic about Hermione pre-Hogwarts and losing her friendships from that era.

An audience member added that part of the conflict in those types of situations would be that one friend couldn’t tell the other what was happening in their life.

Naomi loves it when the friend tells anyway because isn’t that what best friends do? They tell each other everything no matter what. The panelists all agree they hate secret keeping as plot device.

An audience member brought up a series - Heroine Complex about superheroes with secrets.

One audience member brought up Supergirl as an example and I continued while trying not to spoil current storylines for one of the panelists. I think I said it was doing interesting things in regards to how secret keeping was affecting a female friendship and also how the show in general does good at the valuing of friendship for it’s own sake.

Clarissa mentioned Cardcaptor Sakura, a manga/anime.

Crystal mentioned Gwenda Bond’s Lois Lane books.

An audience member brought up My Little Pony, someone else said Sailor Moon. Clarissa said anime/manga in general does a lot of this but we’re not on recs yet. Naomi said - oh, we’re on recs now. (lol)

Recs:

Clarissa - Princess Jellyfish. KJ - Agents of Shield for the mentor/friendships. Audience - Parasol Protectorate. Audience - Michael/Tily from ST:Disco, Call the Midwife. Audience - Hullmetal Girls, Spinning Silver. Audience - Tamora Pierce’s Magic Circle. Audience - Steerswoman. Audience - Jessica Jones.

Naomi asked - what do we want to see more of?

Karin said - just more female friendships.

Lauren said acceptance from friends for just who someone is.

Crystal said she is drawn to friendship arcs but also wants wants them normalized.

Naomi talked about found family.

KJ said more women interacting with one another in general.

Karin wants more of the female mentorship role.

Crystal suggested Meg Elison’s post-apocalyptic stuff for how female friendships function in that kind of environment.

aaaaaand phew! This was one feelsey-ride! I loved it so much and hope we get more panels like it in the future.

#wiscon #wiscon 42 #female friendship #female friendships in sff #friendship

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recurring-polynya · 4 years ago

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Bleach Sword Beasts Arc Recap: Episode 260

Yuppp, it’s time for the Kazeshini Befriends a Baby episode.

Friends, I know someone’s gonna yell at me for this, but honestly, I remembered this one being better. I mean, obviously, the idea seems like comedy gold, but as I was watching it, I felt like they had this concept and then just... failed to ride with it. Like “It’s Kazeshini.... and a baby! It’s hilarious!” without actually being hilarious. Regardless, I know people would be disappointed if I didn’t cover this one, because it is beloved, so I will do my best.

Ep opens with Hisagi Naruto-running through the woods while Kazeshini cackles, so I guess that counts as a strong start, but it’s literally just footage they re-used from the episode where they fought back during the Muramasa rebellion. I gotta say, if I went to shinigami school and trained with the blade, etc, and then found out my sword spirit was a crazy murderer who hated me and would absolutely not help me in any situation, I would take some night courses and become a shinigami bartender. I would not “deal with” some stupid death pinwheels that scared me. I would simply pursue another line of employment. I would also not get the sex number tattooed on my face, so these are just a few of the ways I am different from Hisagi Shuuhei.

I guess that was supposed to be an actual flashback, because then it cuts to Ikkaku, Iba, Izuru, and Shuuhei running through the woods. What a friggin’ dream team. Ikkaku and Iba are on exposition duty, and thus we learn that they are off to Rukongai to fight some sword beasts who are starting shit, as is their wont. They get attacked by Kazeshini and Hisagi sighs and tells everyone else to go on ahead with exactly the same inflection as an absentee dad in an 80′s film who just remembered he can’t go to the game because he has to pick up his son from soccer practice. It’s now Kira’s turn to provide some exposition, and he explains to Iba and Ikkaku that Hisagi’s zanpakutou is, as they say, a huge bitch. He voiceovers his own flashback to the time he totally beat Kazeshini and looked super cool. Iba and Ikkaku agree: Wow. Kazeshini sure is a huge bitch.

Shuuhei and Kazeshini fight for a while, but Shuuhei is so, so tired, and finally he’s like “Dude, I am at work, can we do this later?” and Kazeshini gets mad and pouty.

I really like the next part where Hisagi runs up to some Kira and Iba who are standing around in Rukongai, which is smoking, and says “Sorry I’m late.” Ikkaku is nowhere to be seen draw your own conclusions. It is no wonder the Rukongai dwellers hate Soul Reapers, I would definitely be printing up anti-shinigami propaganda if I lived in the Rukon.

I am sorry, I can’t stop taking screenshots of these goons, I love them. Ikakku shows up and says they were all too late, it was like this when we got here. Whatever you say, man.

Cut to a cliff where Kazeshini is gazing over the smoking town, and Haineko, Hozukimaru and Wabisuke roll in to give him some life advice. Look, the best thing about this arc is the great care and attention they give to pointedly ignoring that no one ever made up zanpakutou for some of the shinigami. Maybe you won’t notice, they say, that we never show Iba’s zanpakutou. He surely has one and it definitely has a name, look, here’s a catgirl! God, I would give my liver to get the backstory on Iba’s zanpakutou. I hope it’s just Ray Smuckles from Achewood.

It turns out this is an intervention, the other zanpakutou are as sick of Kazeshini’s shit as Hisagi is. They are literally just like “what is wrong with you man?” and then say he can’t come to the cool parties down in the zanpakutou cave anymore if he can’t get his shit together. (Do you think Byakuya is still invited to those? I mean, I am sure he doesn’t go). Kazeshini yells “You’re not MY DAD!” and jumps off a cliff.

Kazeshini attacks Hisagi again while Hisagi is in the middle of a fight with an actual sword beast. Hisagi is really fed up by this time, he’s busy and this is getting pretty tiresome (to us, the audience as well). He throws Kazeshini through a wall, yells “I don’t have time for this” and gets back to business. Kazeshini is upset because no one is paying attention to him and goes looking for Hisagi. What he finds instead is a sword beast murdering a dude. The sword beast calls Kazeshini a dog of the Soul Reapers so Kazeshini stabs him in the friggin’ face, the first time this episode we have seen Kazeshini’s commitment to murderin’ dudes. Of course, the sword beast was in the middle of his own murder at the time, and the poor dude bleeding out on the floor begs Kazeshini to take care of his infant son.

I am presuming it’s his son. He could have been stolen that baby. Maybe they were just roommates. I don’t know how babies work in Soul Society and every time I think about it, it gives me a headache. Anyway, the baby has appeared.

To be perfectly honest, the dad didn’t even look that hurt and Kazeshini doesn’t know how much blood people are suppose to have in them, I bet he was just faking to get rid of this baby.

Kazeshini deadass looks this baby in the eyes and in a gravelly Clint Eastwood voice says “Look, kid, the only thing I am interested in is reaping lives” and I laughed my ass off, this is the actual funniest thing that happens in this episode.

The baby starts crying because Kazeshini won’t let him touch his death pinwheels, and the Soul Reapers hear it and start to run over. Kazeshini yells “I guess I have no choice!” grabs the baby and scrams. He had... no choice. He is very committed to murders, but he had no choice but to leave the baby sitting on the ground for 30 seconds before some authority figures ran up and found it. No. Choice.

GOD, I would give anything to see Iba, Ikkaku, Kira and Hisagi try to take care of a baby. Iba would try to get the Shinigami Women’s Association to take it and they would refuse. He would put the baby in sunglasses and one of those chest wraps. Ikkaku would try to teach the baby to fight, while Kira shouted “You can’t teach a baby to fight!” Hisagi would try to read a book on childhood development and get some Bad Ideas. Eventually, Ukitake would show up and take the baby away from them. I would give you all the money in my pocket for this, Bleach writers, but NO.

Kazeshini tries to talk the baby into going off and getting a job or something, but that doesn’t work. He tries to abandon it and... fails, I guess. He goes back to the cliff where the other zanpakutou show up to laugh at him and refuse to help, as well they should.

The baby cries because Kazeshini won’t let him touch his scythe thingies, so Kazeshini let’s him touch them. a) of all, this is not how parenting works, Kazeshini, and b) why does Kubo/whoever wrote this episode think babies love sharp objects, because this is exactly how the scene where Zaraki meets Yachiru goes. I have had babies. Do not get me wrong, babies love things they can hurt themselves with, mine particularly loved power cables, but I do not think they are generally interested in weaponry, but then again, this is Bleach, so it’s probably just a sign that this kid is going to grow up and be a Soul Reaper. I think this is the part of the episode where I started speculating where the baby would get his ‘69′ tattoo, because clearly, the cycle continues, and my husband made me shut up because he didn’t want to think about it, but search your heart, you know it’s truuuuuuuuue. If they ever do a Bleach Next Generation series, this kid better show up and he better have that tatt.

The baby pees on Kazeshini.

There’s a montage of the baby further harshing Kazeshini’s Hisagi-bothering lifestyle.

Then, Kira tells Hisagi that “there’s a rumor going around the zanpakutou about yours.” Why are the zanpakutou telling Kira their rumors. Do Kira and Wabisuke hang out? I mean, all of these takes place within, like, 2 hours, I think? While everyone’s on a mission? I don’t care, now I’m just mad that we got robbed of a Kira & Wabisuke episode where they listened to a bunch of The Cure together and made a poetry chapbook.

Kazeshini really, really wants to fight Hisagi at this point, but the baby has fallen asleep. He tries to leave it on a roof, but the baby rolls off the roof. Maybe it’s because I have kids, I dunno, but none of these antics are really funny to me, they’re just dumb. Literally, why doesn’t he just leave it on the ground?? All of these jokes revolve around him being an idiot and not caring about the baby, but he could have not just taken it in the first place. (there’s one point where he does try to hook it on a tree branch and that was funny, because we always talked about putting hooks on the wall that we could hang the babies on, just, like, for a minute, they would have loved it). Anyway, he spots a shed on the edge of town and decides that would be the perfect spot to abandon a baby while he murders his master.

Fight time! God, I love a Scooby Doo sequence where you have different characters running up and down streets and in and out of doorways, and there is a delightful one of Iba, Ikkaku, Kira and Hisagi fighting sword beasts. I cannot believe I am more delighted by the lieutenant parts of this episode than the Kazeshini parts, but that’s just who I am now.

We actually get to see some competent Hisagi fighting. Kazeshini is about to jump in and mess him up again, but the baby starts crying back in the shed. (it’s so far away??? How does he even hear it???) I guess he cares now, so he runs back to go get his kid. In the meantime, a nice lady has found the baby and is attempting to comfort it, except that the moment Kazeshini slides into the doorway she... drops the baby? The baby is comforted by hugging Kazeshini’s pointy shoe, and Kazeshini realizes that perhaps this woman will be an incompetent enough parent to take over in his stead.

Oh no a sword beast attacks him from behind! I guess it’s the one I thought he killed earlier, because it says “Oh, it’s you, the Soul Reaper’s dog!” Kazeshini isn’t even good at murdering, wtf? This episode is dumb.

Anyway, Kazeshini stabs the sword beast, and it definitely dies this time. He has an intense moment of realization that saving people is almost as cool as murdering people, and tells the lady to take the baby and run. The baby cries while a very intense guitar chord plays.

Kazeshini finds Hisagi, who is killing the last of the sword beasts, and is like “Okay, I promise not to attack you from behind can we fight now?” The episode then goes full-bore D R A M A, where they say “Reap--!” at the same time and there’s a smash cut to T H E S K Y and a woman singing a lullaby with some haunting reverb and then it intersperses imagery of the woman comforting the crying baby in a field full of floating dandelion seeds and Kazeshini and Hisagi fighting. At this point, if the episode doesn’t end with them each dying on the ground, I am going to be deeply disappointed. (Spoiler: I am deeply disappointed).

There’s a pretty good death pinwheel-on-death pinwheel fight, although it’s short. Hisagi stans gotta take what they can get, I guess. Anyway, at least Kazeshini ends up lying in a pool of his own blood, where he mumbles “When I turn back into a regular zanpakutou... what will we fight for?” and Hisagi replies “We will fight to protect people” and Kazeshini makes this face:

This was the second funniest part of this episode.

He turns back into swords and that’s the end.

In canon, the bit about Hisagi fearing his own blades is an interesting bit of character building, that fits in nicely with his admiration of Tousen, and the fact that he’s a bit of an artsy, writer type. It builds up the idea that Soul Reapers are not just bloodthirsty warriors, but people with morals and concerns, that they fight to protect, just like Ichigo does.

This episode in no way contributes to that idea. It’s more like the writers say, “Hey, people love Grimmjow! Let’s make a yell-y guy who likes to kill people!” Why does Kazeshini want to murder so badly? Who hurt him? He’s part of Hisagi’s psyche, but why? Why are either of them like this? In my head, prior to this, I could think of Kazeshini as a disembodied voice encouraging the escalation of violence. Hisagi was weak and powerless as a child, and then, in one of his first command positions, had a group of underclassmen in his care brutally attacked and a friend killed. I can see him having urges to go to extremes-- to get revenge, to kill monsters before they can kill innocents, but he fears these urges within himself, he fears becoming a monster.

The way this filler arc portrays Kazeshini doesn’t fit. It doesn’t work. Kazeshini is just a dirtbag who wants to kill and attack from behind and then they give him a baby and they don’t even have anything interesting to say about any of this. It’s honestly just disappointing. That’s right. I’m disappointed in you, Bleach Filler Episode about Kazeshini Toting a Baby Around. C-. It’s not quite the level of disappointment I had over the one where Renji blew up Urahara’s van, but Hisagi fans really don’t get thrown a lot of bones, and they deserve better than this.

Oh, and then in the next episode voiceover, Wabisuke theorizes that the baby was Kazeshini’s lovechild. We definitely do not have time unpack all that, so let’s end it here.

#sword beasts arc #bleach filler #shuuhei hisagi #kazeshini #i will say that kazeshini's character design does look like something shuuhei would doodle in the margins of his 4th grade math homework

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noodlefiasco · 3 years ago

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Kira, what the actual fuck are you smoking?

You have steadily gotten worse and worse about this movie over the like 8 years I've followed you. And it's cool if you just don't like it, I particularly don't care that much for The Little Mermaid, but I don't rage about Ariel giving up her voice for a man.

Because that's wrong. That's not what happens.

First, Beast "targeted" Maurice because Maurice broke into his house. That's actually a pretty good reason for Beast to throw him in a dungeon. It's completely overblown reaction true, but at this point in the story Beast is still Asshole Supreme.

And second, he doesn't target Belle at all. He doesn't even know about her until she's in his castle, in front of Maurice's cell door. Beast doesn't even tell her he'll consider letting Maurice go in exchange for her. Because it wasn't his idea.

It was Belle's! The exchange goes:

Belle: Then take me instead!

Beast: You! .... You would take his place?

It didn't occur to Beast that this is an option! Because he's a rash, impulsive asshole right now.

It's not an abuse narrative, in part because Belle knows what she's getting into, she made the deal, she wasn't tricked. And I feel that's an important part of an abuse narrative, that the abuser starts out charming before slowly revealing the monster underneath. He never does this, he starts out an asshole, right up until after he's saved Belle's life and she calls him out for having shit control on his temper.

It's also not an abuse narrative because Belle doesn't stumble into this with no idea of what's going on, only to learn too late what she has to do to get out of this. Belle offered the switch in the first place, agreed to it even after learning what Beast was, and proceeds to give him shit for the like 13 hours she was there. Because she left when he chased her out of the west wing, dismissing the agreement they had as she does it. She doesn't come back because there's some magic spell that prevents her from leaving, and Beast chase her back to the castle or anything. She comes back because he got injured saving her life, which she acknowledges.

And finally, it's not an abuse narrative, because it's not Belle's story. It's Beast's. Belle is the POV character, but she doesn't grow or change or learn anything.

Beast does. In fact, Beast does that whole "suck it up and not be [an] abuser" that absolute bullshit phrase I can't believe you, YOU of all people, actually fucking typed Kira, like it's as easy as flipping a goddamned switch.

This is the part that actually pisses me off about what you said, not just that you straight up ignored what happened in the movie, or the fact that you're supposedly writing two different novels that I was looking forward to, but you don't know what a character or arc beat is.

It's that you, someone who has talked at length about how shitty your childhood was because of your abusive parents, is now saying "oh well, abused kids should just not grow up to be abusive. It's really that easy"

Like you haven't acknowledged that you wouldn't be who you are today if it wasn't for the people that stuck with you. Who were both kind to you when you needed it, and willing to sit you down and explain that your horseshit would not be tolerated.

And that is what's happening here! How do you not see that?!! Yeah, if this was real then Beast should've told her that the deal was done with a long time ago. But it's not real! It's a story! And as such, there are story beats and character beats!

And him letting her go to save her father, after all the effort that went into preparing the ball, on the last night he has to turn back into a human and giving that up forever, is the ENTIRE. FUCKING. POINT.

It's the culmination of his arc, the final step into his growth into the kind of person capable into putting the needs of the person he cares about above his wants.

And you missed it!

Holy everything, the Disney version of Beauty and the Beast really is about Stockholm syndrome - just not in the way people who say that tend to think it is.

A while ago I transcribed these tweets and book quotes about the origin of the term ‘Stockholm syndrome’.

Basically, several people got taken hostage, and the psychiatrist who was supposed to help the police deescalate the situation did a terrible job.

After the hostages were free, one of the women publicly called him out on doing such a terrible job, and said she’d felt more in danger of being shot by the police than by the kidnapper.

The psychiatrist, who had refused to speak to this woman when she requested it during the hostage situation and did not meet her afterwards, immediately declared that she must only think he’d done a terrible job because she was secretly attracted to the kidnapper.

Likewise, when Belle publicly says Gaston is more cruel to her than the Beast was, he immediately announces this must be a delusion caused by something wrong with her.

[image description: two captioned screenshots from the Disney version of Beauty and the Beast, and a screenshot of a book quote from See What You Made Me Do by Jess Hill.

First movie screenshot is Belle recoiling, holding the Enchanted Mirror, captioned, “He’s no monster, Gaston. You are!”

Second movie screenshot is Gaston yanking the mirror away from Belle, declaring, “She’s as crazy as the old man.”

Third screenshot reads: “In 2008, a review of the literature on Stockholm syndrome found that most diagnoses were made by the media, not psychologists or psychiatrists; that it was poorly researched, and that the scant academic research on it could not even agree on what the syndrome was, let alone how to diagnose it. Allan Wade, who has consulted closely with Enmark, says Stockholm syndrome is ‘a myth invented to discredit women victims of violence’ by a psychiatrist with an obvious conflict of interest, whose first instinct was to silence the woman questioning his authority.”

Some of the text in the third screenshot is highlighted. There are also two footnote links, but the footnotes themselves are not shown.

/end image description]

In fairness to the townspeople for going along with this, from their perspective, Belle calling Gaston a monster seemed like it came out of nowhere. They aren’t privy to why she rejected his marriage proposal before her disappearance, and it was not widely known that Gaston was having Maurice sent to the asylum to blackmail Belle into marrying him.

(I mean, the end of the song ‘Gaston’ implies that some of the folks in the pub could infer what he was up to, but only Gaston, Lefou, and the asylum keeper were officially in on the plan.)

The whole exchange, “I might be able to clear up this little misunderstanding, if.” “If what?” “If you marry me,” was in an undertone, and nobody else looked to be close enough to overhear.

Anyway: This scene is Gaston leveraging his position of respectability in the town to be believed over the woman who disagrees with him, making himself the only one whose side of the argument people are even listening to, and then redirecting everyone’s focus to “kill the Beast!”, just like the psychiatrist who invented Stockholm syndrome leaned on his degree to get people to believe he was right to dismiss accusations that he did something wrong, and refocused their attention on his ‘diagnosis’.

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musefulstranger · 7 years ago

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5x09 review-One Fettered Slave

I can’t believe we’ve come to this point.

One episode before the final epilogue and it feels so surreal-i can’t even begin to imagine how it must’ve been for the people that have sticked to this show for 4 years.

Ep 9 was what i imagined it to be: quick paced, action packed and extremely emotional.

I was scared about the analogy between the Helena moments and the general mythology arc cause they had to show a lot of things- especially after Siobhan’s death- but they balanced it well.

let’s analyze the different thematics:

The Funeral

Siobhan’s funeral started with Sarah speaking . In an episode that is focused on another character i think the writers did a good choice not showing Sarah’s vulnerability.

She’s suddenly the pillar of the family and eveyone is expecting directions from her. She has to be the strong one there’s no other way. Her grief and feelings are not her priority right now so she won’t break down. Not in front of Kira, not in front of everyone.

Sarah’s grown so much.This moment says it all

what am i supposed to do?

she can’t afford losing her child as well. She’s the reason she’s keeping it together after all. So she stays with her and comforts her. Something Ms S had done all those years when Sarah was absent.

I also adored the symbolism of her wearing her mother’s jacket.

Sarah taking responsibility, lifting the weights of this family

also congrats for letting Tatiana without make up in her portrayal of Sarah (or rather the “no make up” makeup ya know) cause it made her emotional chaos more humane… her eyes said it all..

also about her breaking down- i believe we’re gonna see her grieve the way she’s supposed to after everything is finally over. Last episode is Sarah centric so it totally fits to have her moment in the epilogue.

What i didn’t like from the funeral scene was the singing at the beginning, which i found anticlimactic..it would be much better if we could just hear Sara and Felix speaking with no other sound in the background..

Also the fact that 4 days after S’s death they could walk and talk in a house that is a murder scene was totally unrealistic..Police had to be all over the place investigating and all…

Unless Art handled the situation in a way..but still a plot hole is a plot hole

Team working together

Cosima,Felix, Art, Hellwizard, Scott, Rachel ok what a pleasant suprise to see everyone working together. I loved the fact that supporting actors got the chance to actually help the ledas and be useful. Each one helped in their own field.

Cosima helped with the Dyad information and Scotty-Hell with the security system (even if it was kinda weak to hack the security system with such convienience-i’m bypassing that lol)

Even Rachel helped!! Rachel!!! My only complaint was Alison’s minimum participation in this but i get that given the circumstances her involvement would be extremely difficult

Should i talk about Art??

Cause everything

screams

SACRIFICE

and all this time i ‘ve been crazy rambling about how his chances of surving are veeeery low…. ep 9 built his exodus cause the final episode will be Leda/Sarah Centric…so be prepared guys…

i get Ebro’s schedule..i trully do..and i was fine with Sardinia..i was fine with Geneva as well cause there was a reason behind it plotwise but we’ve come to the point where there isn’t even an explanation about this…

they didn’t clarify the reason she left… cause it doesn’t make sense when Siobhan’s funeral was 4 days after the gallery party…there wasn’t a reason good enough to justify her absence that’s why the writers didn’t give one…they prefered to let the fans decide which reason was good enough…let’s be real though that was sloppy..and as much as i love orphan black i’m gonna point out it’s weakening points as well.

Coady+ Mark

So Mark died absolutely clueless…his death matched Ira’s death, both manipulated by their creators, hoping for a cure that never existed in the first place.Too bad that there wasn’t any building up to bring tension and to make us care about those characters… so this scene felt kinda flat at least for me…i believe the reason behind this was cause ob writers didn’t want to make Coady a grey character…. well i for once celebrated her death after this scene

wait it is confirmed that Coady is dead right? I mean Helena beat the shit out of her so it would be impossible to zombie out ?? or should i be worried??

PT + Rachel!Sarah

oh god PT without his wig is like a bulb with ears lmao

anyway so i loved these 2 together…this is the first time Sarah meets John am i right?

also congrats to the props team and the level of detail they use in each scene…i liked that Sarah didn’t wear the same patch Rachel wears…

a++ to the dialogue about PT perving out on Rachel because in that way Sarah put herself on Rachel’s shoes and actually saw for the first time how they were monitoring her sister and what actually means complete lack of privacy…

also both Susan and PT seem to have a perplexed image as to what a father/mother figure looks like

you don’t fuck your ‘son’/ or watch you ‘daughter’ masturbate and then call them “son/daughter” lol

but it gave me pleasure that Rachel never actually called PT “father” and that’s how Sarah got exposed..

the moment she cut him with the knife i was like “yaaaas finish him lol”

HELENA

FLASHBACKS

omg??

don’t get me wrong the kid was very good/ super talented and all

but how could they do this???

i mean it was SO.FUCKING.OBVIOUS that this isn’t the face of a leda clone you couldn’t concentrate on anything else!

at least i couldn’t! Especially when 2 episodes before they used canonically Cynthia!

i mean

??????

it defies logic?? there’s no excuse??

they could have dubbed the ukranian parts i don’t care if little Cynthia couldn’t play that good that was so wrong in so many levels… it had the “Spongebob takes a bath in the sea” logic lol

and it was really such a shame cause the flashbacks were so amazing..

first of all i loved the whole “pleasures of the flesh are unacceptable in a religious environment” thematic cause it adresses real social issues like the austerity and fake puritanism of social institutions.

the reason behind Helena’s bleached hair was a nice touch even though little Helena should also have some burn marks after this…we got to know why she has those pink shades under her eyes as well so that was good..

as far as to why her hair is still blonde after all this time…well i choose to patch this plot hole by believing that Helena did this to herself again and again..she bleached/dyed them as a sign of punishment, self harm and guilt cause that was the way she was raised- a mouthpiece and killing machine of others..

the art department did a brilliant job with the dollhouse and the correlation between Helena’s fixation with dolls back in her Rachel assassination attempt

Tomas took her and hide her the fact that she’s a copy..she grew up in the illusion that she was special..that she was the original..in fact Rachel and Helena fantasized about the same thing and it is so fascinating to see how they are 2 different sides of the same coin…

Most Heartbreaking moment

Oh god this moment…

what kind of mother could you possibly make?

jesus Tatiana each time you give more and more, i haven’t seen an actor as committed and devoted as you are, you deserve all the praise girl woah

Coady found Helena’s weakness and it is not how she smells, looks or talks…it’s about her capacity of giving a future more bright and beautiful to her children than the one her younger self had to endure…

and at the end of the day she’s willing to take the bait.. it’s either freedom or death…exactly like Rachel..there’s no middle ground..she won’t leave her children become experiments so that’s why i find super important that we finally get a Rachel Helena scene…there’s a high probability Rachel won’t make it in the finale so at least lets have a last glorious scene with the 3 of them as they try to escape…or so i hope…

THE TWINS

YEEEEEESSSSS

all this crazy rambling about this being a Sarah-Helena season finally came true! Everything came full circle and this moment was SO important like you guys don’t understand…

Sarah finally made up for Helena..she gave her her blood to keep her alive…she put each and everyone of her friends and family searching for her, she made her a priority- drowning her grief -cause she couldn’t lose another one..especially Helena.

And now she will help her give birth..she will be there for her, protect her, give her life even..even tho after the obspoilers fiasco my theory now is that Art is gonna save Sarah…because it is super symbolic .. it would be his second chance and his redemption after losing Beth.. now he’s gonna do it right. Idk it is so foreshadowing… i wonder what Rachel’s role is gonna be..i sure hope she’s the one that’s gonna kill PT but who knows at this point.

Ep 9 set the mood for a very powerful ob series finale..Helena’s inner world was raw and pure and it’s going to parallel Sarah’s final gut-wrenching episode.The twins are going to set the epilogue and i trully hope their journey will be as magical and satisfying as this show was for all of us.

#orphan black #ob #one fettered slave #tatiana maslany #sarah manning #helena manning #cosima niehaus #alison hendrix #felix manning #art bell #rachel duncan #ob review #ob theories #cophine #obs5 #ob 5x09 #long post

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skateurgency · 7 years ago

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Netflix Death Note 2/10

I watched this POS. I watched all of it. I forced a friend to watch it with me because I couldn’t go through it alone.

I couldn’t go more than 5 minutes without pausing it to sCREAm at how poorly it captured the original. I dented my wall guys. I became so enraged seeing one of my favorite series brought this low. It destroyed its source material and left behind the worst adaptation yet of Death Note and just an all around poor quality film. If you haven’t seen Death Note and are afraid of spoiling the source material with this film, don’t worry! Maybe 7% is the same. Maybe. However, there will be spoilers below.

Oh Boy. It was hard to get through. There as just so much wrong with it. Light’s a little bitch. Ryuk is barely there. Misa, aka Mia, is one of the most unlikable charterers I have seen in a long time. Granted, I didn’t care much for Misa Misa in the manga, but Mia took it from indifference to strong dislike. Mr. Turner (Light’s dad in this version. I can’t recall a first name) is such an unlikable man. Also, a plot point is that Light’s mom is dead and he doesn’t have a sister so you know right there that the whole Mellow arc is basically scrapped.

Now I know that this was an “adaptation” of the manga, and an Americanized version. There may have been a few too many creative liberties used because almost nothing followed the source material. It seemed more like a bad high school drama than Death Note. Hell, an important scene takes place at a homecoming dance. Light Yagami (Turner) at a homecoming dance. Talking about the Death Note in BROAD FUCKING DAYLIGHT.

After watching the film I made a comment to my friend that you could have taken out Ryuk from the film and it wouldn’t have changed the plot one bit. Except we would have been spared the scene of Light shrieking in fear and cowering under a desk. If you’ve made a Death Note adaptation that could easily remove the shinigami and nothing would be different, you know that you messed up right there.

Speaking of Ryuk, he is an odd presence in the film. He is no longer bound to the owner of the death note, instead it seems like he comes and goes while he pleases. Also, now he can only be seen by the owner of the death note, not just anyone who touches it. Thus Misa (Mia) can never see or talk to him throughout the film, which leads to some odd exchanges. Unlike the manga Ryuk, this one never goes in to the boredom speech. Remember when Light asks what he did to receive such a great power and Ryuk tells him it was just dumb luck that he picked it up, Ryuk just dropped it because he was bored? Yeah, there was none of that. There isn’t the scene of Ryuk telling Light that if he uses the death note that he won’t go to heaven or hell, and that Ryuk will be the one to kill him in the end. I always liked that scene in the manga, it gave Light’s choices more weight. Ryuk honestly... doesn’t do much at all. He eats some apples, that’s pretty neat. Ummm... he has a nice line at the very end of the film... I think that’s it, asides from Light screaming or threatening him a few times.

Which really bothered me. Like, REALLY bothered me. This movie screws up shinigami death, along with a lot of the rules of the death note. Light tells Ryuk he’ll write his name down in the death note, and Ryuk just tells him “the most anyone ever got was two letters.” You can’t kill a shinigami by just writing their name down. There’s only a handful of beings that know how to kill one, two of them being Ryuk and Rem, who isn’t in the film at all. Yes, a shinigami can die if thery forget to put names down, but a way to kill one is by having a shinigami extend the life of a human they care for when that human’s life was supposed to be up. Rem’s friend does this for Misa Misa and then brings her his death note per his request. Not like any of that comes up in this film. Misa (Mia) never gets a death note, never becomes the second kira, and never gets there eyes. Because oh yeah, something key like the shinigami eyes and this girl being so in love she quarters her life span for a guy doesn’t make it in to this film.

A few other rules are off though, such as the way ownership works. The film makes it no longer Ryuk’s death note and has a scene about how it will pass from human to human (I don’t remember the specifics and I’m not about to watch it again) after a certain amount of days. I also do not think the owner loses their memory. There’s also this odd clause that if you write a name down but later destroy the page before it happens the death will be cancelled. But you can only do this once. This becomes a major plot point for the film when it isn’t at all in the manga (that I recall. Feel free to correct me on this.) Also, you apparently don’t need the right names because Light fucking writes down Watari as fucking Watari AND IT WORKS. WHAT. WHAT THE FUCK. WHY?

This is getting very long winded because I have a lot of rage, so I’m going to break this down by issues I had with each character and how off they were from their manga counterparts.

L - I’ll start of positive. For the most part, I liked L. The actor was much better than his rival, and made L seem human. His performance was a highlight. My main issue with L was the weird limo scene with some odd neon shades and asking Watari to sing him to sleep. It also upset me that he showed his actual face in a press junket. They focused more on his candy than how brilliant L actually is. Both he and Light don’t seem to be anywhere near as intelligent as they should be. In the film there is scenes of L coping with the loss of a friend that wasn’t in the manga since L and Watari die at about the same time. It was actually nice to see and made L seem a little more warm and human.

Watari - Good actor, gave a good performance. Odd casting choice in my opinion? Watari was one of the few Japanese actors in the cast when he’s playing the only non Japanese character. Watari was an old English gentleman. His name is Quillish Whammy for fuck’s sake. The actor gave the roll a good go, unfortunately it was just written poorly and most of his scenes take place at what looks like an old horror movie set.

Ryuk - I already touched on Ryuk previously. The VA did a fine job, he actually looked pretty decent. Sadly, his lines are all pretty worthless and for the most part he just makes Light nearly piss himself when he shows up.

Mr. Yagami (Mr. Turner) - This man is such a fuck. I disliked him so much. I really respected Yagami in the manga. He made tough decisions and was ready to do what he must to catch Kira. In fact, he quits the police force in near disgrace to fight Kira. That scene where he asks L to confine him as well because his son is confined in suspicion of being Kira? That scene where he is prepared to shoot his son and then himself? His father trading for the eyes but never using the death note on Mellow because he still wants to redeem him? Yagami being a good, developed character? Yeah, none of that. Instead we got tense conversations between him and Light because they don’t like each other. We get him choking L out at a family dinner because L says Light is Kira and Yagami abandoning L to protect his son at all costs. He even finds out his son is for a fact Kira and does nothing.

Misa Misa Amane (Mia) - Boy did I dislike Misa in this film. The first scene is her being a cheerleader but being too “over life” to do the cheers? God, she is such an unlikeable, uncharasmatic bitch in this film. That’s such a big change from bratty but cute and bubbly superstar model Misa Misa. The actress had very little charm in her delivery. A lot of her scenes were of her trying to convince Light to kill more. A lot of them. Most of her scenes in the later half of the movie. She seemed to be going for a Harley Quinn vibe, complete with a “normal people scare me” hung up in her locker. Misa steals pages from the death note (since she doesn’t have her own) and sneaks behind Light’s back to kill the FBI agents trailing them. She also writes Light’s name down in the death note, to try and gain ownership of it. It honestly seemed like Light and Misa’s personalities were switched from what they were in the manga. Maybe it was to try and make her a strong female character, but it fell flat. What I found was one of the major characteristics of manga Mia was that she loved Light. She would do anything for Light, such as trading for the eyes twice or giving up her death note and memories when Light asks her to. This Misa seems to care much less for Light and more about the death note and killing. It doesn’t make her endearing to the audience, I don’t know what they were trying to do with her.

Light Yagami (Light Turner) - Where to begin. The acting was quite weak. The boy can scream and cry and beg, that’s for sure. However, he’s playing Light. There should have been no need for any of that. If only. I think what upset me most was that this film didn’t make Light seem smart. He does people’s tests for them at school and... that’s it. That’s where you’re supposed to infer that he’s a brilliant top of his class, getting primed for great things. Film version Light isn’t liked at school where as manga Light isn’t super popular, but he has friends. He has girls ask him out a few times. There’s some dialogue between Ryuk and Light about how popular he is with the ladies. Whereas Film Light is pretty much alone except for deranged Misa. There’s also no secrecy about the death note. He fucking has it in his lap during gym class, just chilling there. Misa asks what it is and he shows her how to use it. Just like that. They talk about it and killing people constantly out in public or in classes. It’s so unrealistic. Light doesn’t try to hide anything. On his first time meeting L he confesses to being Kira, just like that. He confesses it to his dad later on as well. He has a few exchanges with Misa about how much he wants to give up the death note and run way together because he loves her. After all, there was a montage of them making out while writing down names, it’s true love. The climax of the movie has Light writing down “if Misa takes the note book from me she will die” and Light telling her “it’s the notebook or me.” She chooses the notebook and you see him sob “I never thought you would take it!! I thought you loved me!!” and it’s so very manga Misa Misa. Light acts like the worst parts of manga Misa. He’s always ready to just give up and cry under a desk. The only good thing he does in this film is kill Misa.

One of the brilliant things Death Notes does is it challenged the reader about what is truly good and evil. Reading it for the first time I remember siding with Light up until he makes the jump to killing anyone after him. Then I was with L and the SPK. But then L dies. The leader of the “good side” dies and Light has his iconic “I win” panel. The whole world turns to Kira in support, and the reader does once again. He won out, he must be the good force after all. Then Near and Mellow show up and once again the reader is unsure of who to support. Mellow uses such underhanded tactics and causes Mr. Yagami’s death so he can’t be good. Near was a little kid so by virtue he had to be good, although personally I dislike Near. L and Mellow grew on me, Near didn’t. At this point Kira can’t be attributed solely to Light as he has Mikami and Misa working for him, but Kira is the bad guy again to the reader. The reader is thrown back and forth with who they support as things develop, but the characters themselves still fully believe that they all are what is good. The side of justice. The SPK thinks that they are in the right by bringing Kira down. Kira thinks that he is right by serving out justice and acting as god. It makes the reader really, really question what they think about right and wrong.

This movie version stripped that away. I never got the feeling that Light believes he is actually doing the right thing. He constantly is questioning their actions and wanting to stop. The viewer never thinks Light is in the right for a second, the viewer never wants him to win. You never have to question is Kira’s justice right or wrong.

I think what sums it up better than I could is the difference between these two scenes (Please note I do not have my copy of the book on hand and I’m not rewatching the film so this is from memory. Words may not be exact but the overall sentence is). In the manga Light comments “They have chosen to call him Kira. I don’t particularly like it as it sounds similar to the American word for killer, which is not what Kira does, he is justice.” In the film, Light states “I chose the name Kira because it’s close to the Japanese word for killer.” There ya go. Light chooses (CHOOSES) the name Kira because it sounds like a nice edgy name that is a word for murderer, which Light views himself as.

Bottom line, don’t watch it unless you too want to be upset. L, Watari, sometimes Ryuk, and the plethora of awful snapchat stickers my friend and I got were the highlights.

2/10 - just not no chip scene, barely any scenes from the manga.

#death note #netflix #review #death note review #fucking awful #long text #sorry guys this got away from me #I had so much to hate tbh #shoutout to strategictree for watching it with me #2/10 what a pos

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