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dr-zeddy · 4 months ago

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Miquella is a deeply tragic character and saying he's a villain just because he used someone, who was probably way worse than him to create an order lead by kindness, makes you come off as pretty short-sighted imo Miq was as much of a victim as Mohg. He had good intentions, he truly believed he could make the he could make the world a better place.

*exhales deeply* Are you the person, I think you are? nonetheless....

I'm going to shed my opinion on Miquella now because I seriously can not tell if this is bait or not from things we see and know in the base game and DLC and want to clarify my thoughts on him and why I believe rendering him as a victim is extremely problematic, also outside of the entire Mohg situation.

Is it so hard to internalize that the things Miquella did were actually highly morally questionable? I got to admit, he is a way more interesting character to me after the DLC because of the things he did (and I enjoy villains, so yeah.) I guess the »villain« term is as much accurate as some of you folks justify brainwashing to be ethical , when it is done with good intentions and keeps the peace, with which I personally do not agree with at all.

I don't see Miquella as tragic because honestly we have nothing to suggest that this guy suffered in any way before he decided to rip himself off of his personality. And that is the point, he decided to do that himself. No one forced him to this. Miquella had a choice, unlike Mohg. Yeah sure, you could argue that he suffered through his immense »empathy« but honestly, Miquella's empathy for the weak and shunned always came off as superficial. Why does he not care for the Albinaurics being tortured in Castle Sol, which is clearly allied with him? Where are the Misbegotten and other creatures in Elphael? Where are the Albinaurics? And the Omens? The Nomads?? Miquella claims to want to create a perfect world where everyone is equal but honestly except for words we hear, we do not see any fucking action or effort to truly include them in his world order.

And that's the thing, Miquella reeks for me at best of naivity and at worst of white saviour complex. He grew up as a fucking empyrean, he had a good relationship with at least one of his parents, he was a golden child. From the things we see and hear in the base game, and now the DLC, it feels like Miquella does not seem to grasp the complexity of the situation when it comes to subjugation. If that is due to his child-like thinking, infused by his curse or actually just his personality, is up for debate. Can you truly care for the subjugated as someone more privileged? Absolutely. But only if you truly educate yourself on the matter and actually listen to the needs of the excluded and shunned.

What does Miquella do instead? He rips everyone off of their autonomy to make decisions themselves if they refuse or challenge his beliefs. That is textbook tyranny. You can not save someone, who refuses to be saved by someone like you. Doing so anyway is extremely ignorant. In the end, Miquella actually puts his needs & beliefs before that of those he claims to desire to save. He is so convinced of his own agenda that he loses track of the moral dilemma, his approach to worldpeace poses. That is not tragic. These are the thoughts of a megalomaniac. If Miquella's selflessness was truly genuine there would be no need of compelling affection. However, he bewitches people. Over and over.

Of course, there are his efforts of curing Malenia still. But even that is, in the big sight of things, not really a selfless act because Malenia is a.) close family and b.) he gets and actual use out of Malenia's talent as a skilled swordswoman. I do not think Miquella bewitched her, I truly believe Malenia followed him by his own will and I also do believe he really did want to help her! However true kindness lays in how you treat those who can do nothing for you. Bewitching those who can do nothing for you and refuse to follow you, is not exactly a very pretty picture of his character.

And in comes Mohg to this occasion. The game is so fucking obvious about the fact that Mohg was the exploited one and I seriously do not understand why people still insist he isn't and exploited Miquella?? He is the only demigod we know for certain of, who was brainwashed. With Radahn and Malenia we do not know for sure but with Mohg we do. The fact that Mohg was bewitched implies that Miquella could not be sure that Mohg would have agreed to a deal and that would have been a way safer route than to bewitch him and his closest consult. I mean, Miquella almost DIED because he underestimated Ansbach's knowledge on how Mohg behaves. Why the fuck risk that if you could have just openly made a deal with Mohg, if he was as power hungry and crazy as the game implied?

In contrast to Miquella, Mohg is actually one of the most tragic characters in the game. This motherfucker was told his mere existence is a crime, grew up in the sewers locked away for years, he had no one except this one Outer God who seemed to care for him and showed him maternal love, something he was deprived off his entire life. Not getting into the speculation on how the cult operated before Miquella took over but it's very clear that he ruined Mohg's life. Mohg just wanted to get away from the toxicity he grew up with and created his own haven, from which he too thought, was the right thing to do. However he never forced anyone to join him. He never mind controlled people. People followed him by their own accounts.

The cult in itself is probably morally questionable too but we also have no idea how the Mohgwyn Dynasty worked before Miquella essentially took over. But by that standard, everyone is in the Lands Between is a twisted bastard with their different agendas ….

The point is that Ansbach is still right though when he says that »Mohg deserved better«. NO ONE who is genuinely interested in helping the shunned and subjugated, would chose one of the most excluded and tormented souls as their pawn. NOBODY deserves to be treated like this but the fact that Mohg is a product of extreme racism and social exclusion makes it so much worse and makes Miquella look so much more hypocritical. It suits the stuff we see in Castle Sol and the Haligtree … Miquella wants to be seen as the world's saviour so badly but seems to have no understanding on what suffering actually means. Because he never experienced it. His empathy is superficial and short sighted. The fact he is convinced he is doing everyone a favour in bewitching them, and does everything in his power to achieve his dream, makes him a truly terrifying villain. And that is something I like Miquella for. Is that really so hard to accept for people like you?

Sure, you can still live out the fantasy in your head that the mindcontrolling intermitted in Mohg to "grape" Miquella (even tho the game also never confirmed this????) if that pleases you, but for the love of God stop acting like it is a fact that Miquella was used by Mohg because he wasn't. I guess a lot of personal feelings from my side bubble up regarding this topic and I'm sorry of if I come off as passive aggressive but as a survivor of abuse as a minor by someone "popular", and nobody believed me, and Mohg being one of my comfort characters, that shit hits different. Just not a fan of turning victim-abuser dynamics upside down, sorry.

#text #ask #elden ring #miquella #mohg

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rainbow-crane · 5 months ago

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In-Depth Analysis On All The DR Characters Because What, Are You Gonna Try And Stop Me? Who Are You, My Mom? Yeah, I Didn't Think So- Part 3: Sayaka Maizono

It's finally time for my #1 THH girlie to shine!!! I may be a bit biased with this one because of how much I adore her, but I'll try my best to remain objective as we go in-depth on how well-written of a character she is. They used her character schtick incredibly, and I can't wait to go into why.

As always, only offical, canon material will be used in this analysis, primarily the english translation of the THH game. If you aren't interested, just keep scrolling.

Part 1- Character Design

Sayaka Maizono was one of the first characters to reach completion, designed for maximum likability to the player. Her look is extremely basic and palatable, with a regular schoolgirl uniform and softer features, and she's characterized instead through her expressions, which are used to either purposefully cover up her true feelings or let the 'perfect idol girl' mask slip when appropriate.

Her given talent was that of the SHSL Idol, or the Ultimate Pop Sensation, adding to her cutesy and likable nature. She was also used during development of the game itself as a placeholder due to how quickly her design came together, which made the developers sick and tired of looking at her(alongside Leon Kuwata, who was also finalized relatively quickly) and led to an early exit in-game.

Part 2- The Assistant Trope/Inspiration

Like many of the characters in Danganronpa, Sayaka was designed around and used to subvert one of the many tropes found in mystery/detective games at the time. For Sayaka, this was that of the deuteragonist, the assistant(one well-known example being Maya Fey from Ace Attorney). Her character introduction, the quick establishment of her relationship with the player, and her 'pleasant' demeanor all factor into this, making her seem as though she's going to be a major player throughout the rest of the game. She was originally meant to be a childhood friend as well, but this was severely cut down to just having gone to the same school. She was also put front and center alongside Makoto and Kyoko in the promotional material for the game to create a level of perceived importance for her before the game even started, and preemptively raise the audience's expectations for her role.

But there was another character that a lot of inspiration was pulled from- Marion Crane from the 1960 film Psycho. Marion is a character who'd lived her entire life as a good person but, in a moment of desperation, steals $40k and goes on the run. The first half of the movie paints her as the protagonist, only for her to be abruptly murdered and for the movie to shift to solving the mystery of her disappearance. Sound familiar?

Part 3- Character Introduction

From the get-go, Sayaka is put into a helper's position. She's not the one to suggest going around and introducing ourselves, nor is she the one to justify why, but she is the one that ends the debate and moves the game into introductory mode, suggesting that she's the go-to for the player to move forward in the game- "Okay, so let's get introductions out of the way, then we can move on to whatever else. Sound good?" She's not asking the class, she's asking you as the player if you're ready to keep going.

Her first intro is brief, focusing less on her character and more on her public image. Makoto narrates about her position as lead singer in her idol group and how beautiful she is, as well as teasing some form of previous meeting between her and us. We also quickly establish her strong intuition.

"Well, never mind. No matter how you slice it, she's really beautiful. Almost like a doll or something..." "I'm not a doll, you know. I'm alive!"

She also seems to recognize you, despite the belief that she probably wouldn't remember. Of course, before you can talk any further, you're interrupted so the plot can keep moving, securing a connection to her without any actual information required.

As you talk to the rest of the class and head towards the entrance ceremony, she's one of the few to voice her concerns about the state of the school, and points out the lack of other students("And why isn't there anyone here? Walking through the halls, I didn't see a single person..."). She's observant and perceptive, keeping her guard up. In fact, she barely speaks throughout the entrance ceremony and immediate aftermath, waiting until their situation has been explained by Monokuma and all the rules have been read to call any attention to herself. When she finally does speak, it's to try and clarify rule 6- the rule that states killers can leave unless discovered.

So the first impression we're left with is that she's a more level-headed and competent girl with some kind of important connection to us, one that appears to be mutual. Anticipation has been built to learn more about that connection as well, which directly affects the story going forward.

Part 4- Your Ultimate Assistant

A major part of why Sayaka works as a character is because she connects with the player directly, offering to help you via a connection to our player character, Makoto. This relationship with us as an audience is the core purpose of her existence in the narrative. When we wake up in Makoto's bedroom and walk outside, it's Sayaka who's there waiting for us, to check if we're okay and fill us in on what's happened while we were out. She's here to help, but keeps the focus on how we're doing.

"But... are *you* okay? You know, from when Mondo hit you..."

"Oh, that's good. I was kinda worried..."

"Well, if you really are feeling better... I was hoping you could come to the dining hall."

She's also the character used from a meta perspective to teach us the functions of the game itself. It creates a certain reliance and trust in the character to continue being helpful to us as the player, even when it's not actually her doing.

It's here where we go on to learn how exactly she knew Makoto- the two of them went to the same middle school, albeit in different classes, and despite the fact that Makoto straight-up admits to having no distinguishable traits, all she can do is laugh it off, happy to have someone somewhat familiar nearby. She attributes this relief solely to Makoto, as if she's indebted to him, and decides she wants to thank you by acting as your Ultimate Assistant. In other words, she's buttering us up so we'll trust her wholeheartedly, and establishes a 'you and me against the world' relationship. And in-character, it works perfectly, with Makoto falling hook, like, and sinker.

"I'm just surprised, is all. I wouldn't have thought you'd remember me." "We went to the same school for three years, of course I remember!"

"But *you're* the one that helped me find my courage again. Not any of those 'ultimate' students." "Thank you for saying that..."

"I'm going to help you out as much as I can, so let's get out of here together!" "When she says things like that, it... it just gets me pumped up!"

"I may not be the best assistant in the world, but I'll give it everything I've got." "No... you've already done so much as my assistant." <-(said almost immediately afterwards, with no character action or events in-between)

And again, the game's mechanics force you to rely solely on Sayaka, utilizing the purple words to have the rest of the day's events explained through Sayaka being personable and helpful.

She continues to be the one to calmly explain what's happened so the player isn't lost or confused. She acts as a voice of reason when the class starts to panic. And again, once the conversation is ended by Celeste, she checks in with you again before splitting up.

"Okay, so since you're in the dark about all this, let me lay out what's been going on."

"Everyone just calm down, please! We need to stop and think about what to do from here."

"Makoto... are you ready to call it a day?" "Yeah, let's go."

The entire next day is spent completely with Sayaka, without a moment's break. From the moment Makoto wakes up, the objective is to talk to Sayaka, and you hunt for a defensive weapon with her. Even without finding a reliable weapon, Makoto very quickly offers himself up as a protector for her, and with that, the search ends. She's gotten what she really wanted- a reliable friend.

"H-Hey, don't worry about it! It's not like you need it right away, right? Plus, if anything *were* to happen... when the time comes... I'll protect you." "You'll... protect me? Thank you for saying that... If I've got you on my side, I guess I don't need a weapon after all!"

You learn more about her by sticking together and talking afterwards, and once you're done with that, the game decides to explain the concept of FTEs via immediately sending you Sayaka's way, again, to bond with her even more("Anyway, why don't you try it out by spending some time with Miss Sayaka Maizono? She's the ideal partner to begin with, don't you think?"), as well as give the player their first skill for the upcoming class trials. It's on-the-nose to the point where Sayaka herself apologizes for it.

This also works to her benefit, as even if the player is getting annoyed by the tutorials, they're less likely to blame Sayaka as a character for it, since she's showing shame for how much time it's taking. Sayaka is unequivocally the character to care about, the character to pay attention to. She becomes the object of Makoto's affections, and makes herself invaluable in his and the players' eyes, all with the handy help of game mechanic tutorials. Whether or not you as the player trust her or find her suspicious, she becomes the character at the forefront of your mind. Either way, the job is done.

Part 5- The Idol Mask

All this knowledge about how she operates for the player as a meta perspective is great, but it doesn't actually tell us a ton about Sayaka herself as a character. It's moreso about how we're being set up to perceive her existence within the game. Regardless, it's important to understand that setup to see why she works, but it's equally important to get into the characterization itself. So, let's do that now.

We already know that she's been working towards establishing a strong bond between herself and Makoto, making him feel better about being surrounded by people with insane talents and offering as much familiarity as possible, as well as singling him out and separating him from the rest of the class while everyone else forms their relationships separately.

She's been doing a great job of keeping up this appearance of a cute and reliable helper, but this leaves her seemingly lacking in substance, as she's solely focused on making us comfortable with her first and foremost. This is something that, from a character perspective, can easily be pulled from her idol career- she's a massive celebrity who advertises cuteness and likability, so leaning into that and using it to her advantage is a logical first step for her in establishing fondness.

As we head to the trophy case in the gym, we do start to get hints of her actual motivations and desires if you stop in the main hall to talk to Leon. It's brief, but a nice touch, especially considering the dynamic between these two later on.

Sayaka's true self doesn't really reveal itself until your conversation with her in the entrance to the gym, though, when she asks to spend some extra time together. Having nothing else to do feels wrong to her. It's unfamiliar, and puts her on edge("No, it's not that it's boring. It's just... I've never really done it before. I don't have a lot of time to just... do nothing."). It's enough to start to move her out of that idol shell in an attempt to fill that time, and let a little bit of that idol's mask slip- "Hey, um... this is kinda out of nowhere, but... Makoto, do you have a dream?"

By turning it around and asking about her dream, we directly connect with her core value- her deeply focused motivation for her childhood dream. It's something that she can't help but gush about, both the wonderful and terrifying parts of it. We get to learn exactly where she came from, raised by the TV, no mother to speak of and an absent father working his ass off, and how her dream took form as she watched her own idols.

"But more than anything else, there was her smile. Looking at her smile, I could feel my loneliness melting away. I decided that's what I wanted to be someday. I wanted to give that kind of encouragement to others."

The mention of an idol's smile specifically is proof that she did, in fact, succeed wholly on this dream, as it calls directly to the repeated mention of how comforting Sayaka's smile is to Makoto.

"That somehow mysterious smile of hers made my heart grow calmer."

"I can tell it comes from the heart. It makes me feel at ease..."

"That mysterious smile that softens my heart... I really wasn't flattering her. That smile saved me."

It also gives us some insight into why said smile exists, and just how often she's masking around us- "Her earlier mood disappeared, replaced by the bright smile I'd quickly grown used to. But how'd it happen so fast? It was almost like a mask, like some kind of neutral expression."

We also get to learn just what kind of world Sayaka lives in, and how much work it takes to keep her dream alive. The entertainment industry is cutthroat, and to be a positive role model and live her dream onstage, she has to fight tooth and nail at all times.

"I did whatever it took to reach that dream. I mean it. Even some things that... weren't so pleasant."

"To make your dream a reality, you have to keep your gaze fixed on it no matter what. In that world, if you lose focus for even a split second, you get left behind. You have to keep on swimming against the current, without even taking time to breathe..."

She even has to compete against the people in her own idol group for attention, though that rivalry is a major factor in what motivates her so much.

"We've been performing together since we were young, so they're all like family to me. Without them, I would have given up on my dream a long time ago."

Although Sayaka has been using Makoto to build herself a safety net and have someone to fall back on, her willingness to share this part of herself exists as proof that she did care about him to some extent. She genuinely does feel more secure with him around, and it allows her to let out her fear and frustrations safely. She's able to take the mask off for a bit.

She has a deep-seated fear of losing everything she's worked for, her entire life's work, to the whim of public attention. And it's not just her livelihood put at risk by this- it's the other 4 girls from her idol group as well. She's their lead singer, their central figure people think of from their group. They could keep performing without her, sure, but the public's perception of them would irrevocably change, and interest would drop. It's a realistic fear, too, as celebrity culture is defined by its "15 minutes of fame," and while she could probably milk her kidnapping story for exposure if she got out quickly enough, tragedies happen every day. With enough time, people would and could forget about her.

We get to see this further after the viewing of the motive videos. After everyone's watched their videos, she has the most volatile response, shoving Makoto away and running out of the AV room to hide. Upon being found, she's described as having no expression or emotion on her face. She's in the process of going completely numb, and can't even bring herself to lie when Makoto asks if she's okay.

It's here that a solid divide is truly defined between Makoto and Sayaka. Their motive videos, while both intense, have completely different implications. Makoto hasn't actually seen hers yet, but assumes it must be the same as his, and thus, his attempts to assure her ultimately fall flat.

"Think about it- those videos have to be fake! Because if those things really had happened...people out there would be in an uproar. Our families, the police, everyone!"

But Sayaka's motive video didn't just imply that her loved ones were hurt. No, her motive video insinuates that her being trapped led to her band falling apart. Their stage presence is gone; they're fading into obscurity. The family she found through the stage is now separated. And that's not something the police would think twice about. That's just the entertainment industry functioning as normal, and actualizing her greatest fears. She is replaceable.

It's here where we truly see what Sayaka's resolve is made of, and where she shows us that she's been thinking of killing this whole time.

Though no one's died yet, the mere idea of killing someone to get free has been gnawing away at her. Not only that, the need to act before anyone else makes the first move is something she's already familiar with thanks to working in the entertainment industry; to keep ahead of the game, you have to push out content constantly. She has to be the lead singer, she has to have the best music. All this pressure is mounting, and the motive video is leading her to blow. And through Makoto's help, she's able to calm herself down enough to direct the steam.

"I-If that happens...then I'll get you out of here myself! No matter what it takes!"

"Can I... can I believe what you said? That you'll help me get out? No matter what it takes?" "A-Absolutely!" "Makoto... You're the only one I can trust. So please... No matter what happens, please always be there for me. I need you on my side..."

Makoto says himself that he'll get her out "no matter what it takes." And he says this while they're trapped in a killing game, where as far as they know, the act of killing someone is the only way to escape. To Sayaka, this reads as an offer: I'll help you kill someone if we have to. So that's what she plans to do.

(It's also worth noting that, at that point, neither of them knew about the class trial at this point, or the potential repercussions of voting incorrectly in one. If they had, this entire situation may have been very different. We'll never know for sure.)

Though the personality she shows us for most of the game is one that's carefully curated, on the inside, she's constantly in terror. She knows how much to reveal about herself and how much not to in order to gain favor, and is always calculating her next move. We know from the description of her dream that she isn't an inherently selfish person- she acts for a dream that she believes is worth it in the long run, and wants to inspire and comfort young girls like herself and make them feel more secure. The concern she shows for Makoto's health and her remembering him from middle school isn't all purely an act; you can't fake memories that are that accurate to what actually happened in the past(will go into more detail in Relationships for this). She latches herself onto Makoto because she wants it to be Makoto, and while she tries to act to her benefit, her softer, more caring nature ultimately stops her from doing so, and winds up getting her killed.

Part 6- Sayaka's Murder

As stated previously, Sayaka being the first victim was designed to be completely shocking to its original audience. She was someone so clearly set up to be important to Makoto, and assisted us in walking through the beginning of the game. A strong bond was established between the two of them, and a character like that was typically propped up to be someone critical to the story unfolding. So this twist was like a gut punch to 2010 Japan. Nowadays, this trope-subversion has become a trope in and of itself, and that can be partially attributed to how much impact Danganronpa had within the genre, but it does make this twist into more of a base expectation for a newer generation of fans. Regardless, this was a major shock at the time, as was confirmed by interviews with the creator. This twist was even protected by the demo of the game, as the victim there was Yasuhiro.

For the rest of the chapter, we have to work to find out who's responsible for her death, and why she ended up dying. It's set to be both the moment that the player begins to take the murder-mystery aspects of the game seriously, and acts as a way to force Makoto as a character to take initiative in the class trial, as almost everyone immediately writes him off as responsible for her murder due to the location of the body. So in a way, Sayaka works in one final act as helper to the player, as it's her murder that leads to the first trial and how to play them.

It's in the trial where we also have it confirmed for us that Sayaka was the instigator, as the evidence gathered unfolds into a failed murderer being murdered herself. Though this comes as a shock to Makoto, we've already seen and addressed how she came to this point and why, so I'll spare the details of explaining the entire trial so we can stay focused on Sayaka herself. Suffice to say, this revealed betrayal serves to develop Makoto's empathy for the rest of the cast going forward as he realizes the one that trusted him most was using him as a buffer, thinking through every step of how to keep suspicion off of herself.

"Now do you understand? She wasn't a blameless victim in all this."

"And if it's true that she had the kitchen knife and attacked without provocation..." "Indeed... these are all the actions of an assailant."

"And by committing the murder there, instead of her room, that would implicate Makoto."

"For one thing, even if her plan worked, Mr. Naegi would just tell everyone they'd switched rooms." "I don't know... I'm not sure our softhearted Makoto is capable of that kind of cutthroat behavior. I'm sure Sayaka realized the same thing".

In the end, it's Kyoko who puts together not only that Sayaka was the one responsible for the trial, but also that her dying message existed to save Makoto. She deciphers the inverted English letters, and even pulls Makoto aside to say as much about Sayaka's true intentions.

"Sayaka meant to double-cross you. That's a fact that you can never change. But even till the very end, she wasn't sure of her decision. That's why... as she lay dying, she was thinking of you."

And because Kyoko is a character who goes on to be established as someone who seeks out the absolute truth, combined with the behavior we saw from Sayaka prior to the murder plot, we can trust that this inference is accurate. It's also directly shown to be true in other official adaptations, such as the stageplay, in which she's murdered in the bedroom and drags herself to the wall to write down Leon's name for Makoto.

Part 7- Relationships

Though Sayaka has few relationships, they're all fiercely important to her, enough to where she's willing to die/kill for them.

7.1- Sayaka's Bandmates

Though they aren't ever named in-game, Sayaka makes it very clear how important her bandmates are to her. She tells us that she sees them as her family, something huge for a girl who grew up lonely, and that her greatest fear is being forced to go their separate ways. They're her best friends, her coworkers, her rivals, her family. They've been involved in every aspect of her life as her bandmates. Their existence and this focus brought on them elevates Sayaka's own motivations- fearing for the success of their band as an idol isn't just about her own success anymore. Her being kidnapped puts her family's livelihood at stake, not just her own. And the motive video serves to throw that fact in her face.

7.2- Makoto Naegi

Sayaka latches onto Makoto quickly for a reason- he's familiar. The government-mandated FTE tells us as much. Not only did they go to the same middle school, but he was someone she very distinctly remembered. Because Makoto was in charge of taking care of the school's animals, he was the one who once led a giant crane out of the school's pond and into the nearby forest. It left enough of an impression on Sayaka for not having spoken to him back then becoming one of her greatest regrets, attributing the event to being something out of a fairytale.

"Honestly though, I was so impressed... That's why I always wanted to talk to you, even just once."

This story is one that's undoubtedly true, and Makoto himself remembers the event clearly as well. It stands as solid, undeniable evidence- that even though she was trying to use him to her benefit, she did genuinely like and admire him as a person, long before the game ever began, and enjoyed his company. She doesn't tell him how she became an idol or confide her fears purely for strategy; if that were the case, she wouldn't have panicked so badly at the motive video and ran. She doesn't want people to see that fearful side of her, but developed enough trust in Makoto to take the risk of letting him see her vulnerable. In the end, that vulnerability works in her favor, but to write it off as just manipulation for the sake of her plan would be inaccurate. Rather, she had genuine fear, and a genuine need to confide in someone, and made the observation as she did that it may be something she could use.

We're given a distinct difference between when she's acting for her benefit and when she's being genuine spelled out for us in our final conversation with her as well. When she's faking that fear of someone trying to break into her room, her irises still have their color, and she's still perfectly in control of herself, able to control her volume and look us in the eye as she gets access to Makoto's room. It exists in a stark contrast to her two breakdowns, where her eyes went white and she started to scream, panicking too much to pay attention to her surroundings.

She trusts Makoto wholeheartedly in the way he trusts her. He was there for her when she needed it, and that's how she's able to develop the confidence to go on and fake it later; she knows he'll take her concerns seriously. So she lies, saying that someone attempted to break in, and convinces him to switch rooms for the night, simultaneously giving her the space she needs to work with to avoid being caught and absolving Makoto of any blame for what she's about to do by keeping him in the dark. When she becomes a killer, he won't fall with her. There are a couple other instances of this subtle protection of Makoto that can be found in the game, like her taking him to look for a defensive weapon only to convince him he should be the one to have it, or her writing the name of her real killer down so Makoto wouldn't be blamed for her death.

It's also worth noting that in the canonical au novel Danganronpa IF, when Sayaka goes to have this conversation, Makoto faints and Sayaka immediately drops the act entirely, instead choosing to focus on getting Makoto taken care of. She rushes him to the nurse's office, and stays with him through the entire night, only going to bed in the morning when Mukuro takes her place so she won't pass out. These aren't the actions of someone acting purely in accordance with her self-gain. If that were the case, she could've just grabbed his key, thrown him in her room, and continued with her plan as normal. But she didn't. Makoto's health and safety is decidedly a real priority of hers every step of the way.

7.3- Leon Kuwata

The original game doesn't do very much to explain why Sayaka would choose Leon to attack as a victim. We learn through Leon's introduction that he wants to become a musician, but other than that, these two barely interact, and only in scenes that are skippable and not on the main storyline(pictured earlier). This comes from the unfortunate result of Leon just so happening upon the developers' shitlist and being killed off first so they wouldn't have to look at him anymore. As was stated earlier, both Sayaka and Leon were the first character designs to reach completion, and were then used in early development of the game quite often. This led to the game devs becoming sick and tired of looking at them and thus, chapter 1 had them both die. And while Sayaka was important enough to the development of the protagonist, Leon was not, and ultimately fell to the wayside throughout his time alive in the game. But that's not to say they didn't at least have an idea of what they wanted to do with the two's relationship at all, and the truth behind why she chose him was expanded upon in the supplemental manga series.

After Mondo knocked Makoto out on the first day, it was Leon who offered to help Sayaka carry him to their dorms in the hopes they'd get to talk. As we already knew, he wants to be a musician, and admires Sayaka for succeeding in the industry. Sayaka sees his excitement and how lighthearted of a person he is, and simultaneously admires and pities it; someone so casual wouldn't be able to fight his way through the industry, as far as she thinks. It'd only hurt him further.

Later, when she's trying to decide who to kill, she remembers this conversation. Leon is one of the only other people besides Makoto she's made any connection with, so he wouldn't suspect she was planning to kill him. Besides, surely he'd understand where she was coming from if he really wanted to be in the entertainment industry, and if he couldn't understand then, well, he was never cut out for it anyway. She was able to justify attacking him in her mind because of this, and thus, he became her target.

Ultimately, Leon wasn't even trying to kill her when she got stabbed. After getting the screwdriver from his toolkit, he was trying to wrestle the knife away from her and talk things out. He didn't trust Monokuma's empty promises, and respected her enough to try to get through to her. Meanwhile, Sayaka couldn't give up; she was in too deep, and if she didn't kill him, then surely he'd tell everyone, and she'd lose everything she'd worked for. But in their struggle, the knife ended up in her stomach, and he ran out, unable to watch her die as he went into damage control and she wrote his name in her blood, as one final apology to Makoto.

In the original game, we never get any of this insight into what happened. We only get Leon's insistence that it was out of self-defense and that he was "just unlucky."

He never fully gets to explain himself, and is executed without another thought, similar to how Sayaka died without ever getting to tell Makoto the truth.

Part 8- School Mode: Sayaka's Ending

After completing THH, you unlock School Mode- Enchanting Dangan Academy: Purely Prismatic Souls, in which instead of announcing a killing game, Monokuma demands the class build themed backups for him. In the downtime for this mode, it acts as a dating sim, as once you finish out someone's FTEs, you can take them on trips to different places in the school and level up their hearts to a max 10. If you win the school mode, and max out Sayaka, you unlock an ending conversation between her and Makoto. This is true of all the characters, but Sayaka's is special because she brings up the promise to stay by her side you made in the main game, despite it never taking place in the school mode.

This reveals something major- Sayaka was, in fact, psychic, and could see into alternate timelines all along. Her psychic intuition assured her there was a universe where Makoto would succeed in saving her, and it allowed her to endure the killing game.

"I knew everything... I knew you would never give up until it was all over. That's why I was able to go through all this, why it didn't hurt... Cuz I'm psychic, ya know?"

(And forgive me for getting conspiratorial here, but the way this is phrased leaves me to wonder if she, to some level, knew she was in a game, and that the tutorials being geared to Sayaka may not have been such a happy coincidence in-universe.)

Part 9- Starfall (Why do we care?)

After reading everything I've said in here, I imagine there'll inevitably be people who disagree with the end results of my analysis. I mean, there's not any real way to know what she's really thinking. So who's to say I'm 100% correct about her genuinely caring for Makoto? Maybe she cared more about her own idol status than anything else, and really was a selfish attention-seeking snake. (I mean, she wasn't completely lol, but I'm making a point here.) What I've presented is my interpretation of her motivations based off of the evidence given. You may not completely agree, and that's okay. Honestly, if anything, disagreeing with some of these conclusions only furthers the point of her character- We're not meant to fully understand her because people aren't easy to understand that quickly. People are complex, and you're not gonna be able to automatically trust the people that appeal to you. Sayaka's story is a remnant of the original idea for the beta version of DR; she pushes you to distrust. Blind faith can get you killed.

Afterword

I think I've really outdone myself with this one, y'all. I adore Sayaka and, even knowing why they chose her for this early-death role, still believe this was an incredible use of her character. As you can probably tell, she's my #1 character from THH for a reason lol.

I'm gonna start on Yasuhiro's analysis in a couple days, but there'll probably be a bigger gap between this one and the next than there's been between the past few analyses bc I have a real life I need to attend to sometimes :/

I hope y'all all thoroughly enjoyed this analysis!! Catch ya later

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thatbitchery · 11 months ago

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Just in case you needed a guide to human relationships & interactions and how to actually relate to people I have one for you, & it's made of 3 parts.

People are different from you. There's literally not one human being out there exactly like you, you could have an identical twin with the same parents same childhood &c and I promise you you're nothing alike. You've lived such different lives despite 75% similarity in DNA. Understanding that people form their opinions belief systems worldview & c on individual experiences based on their trauma, family dynamics, cultures, home value systems, literally climate etc and we are all different will save you from easily getting triggered when someone doesn't share your opinion bc you're not in their shoes you don't know why they have/that/ opinion so you have no grounds to go feral. People are different from you. Understand this & save yourself the embarrassment of pointless arguments & little virtue locks because you cannot fathom different opinions when it's literally the one single truth. Understand this sk you're not going to war with people on the reblogs for not having the same pov. Yours makes sense to you. Theirs makes sense to, them. Who are you to decide whose is the absolute truth?

You are not a God get off your little high horse you're a human being. People do not owe you worship or discipleship. They don't have to believe everything you say or buy into you. Well within their rights to look at what you say or do and say yeah that's a load of bullshit. You're not a God so you're not always right, remember this the next time you're about to lay your life on the ground over an opinion, you could be wrong. Nothing will hurt you more than that thewizardliz my way or no way mindset. Remember the things you used to defend with your life when you were like 10 that you're rn absolutely disgusted by? Leave space & never speak in absolutes & never degrade another's opinion to the ground, you could be wrong & it will be very very very embarrassing for you when you find out you were.

Everyone is right, all the time. There is no absolute in this universe. Unlearn debates they're mighty pointless, everyone is right every single time. Truth is very subjective so the girl that has been traumatized by M3n saying all m3n deserve d3ath is right, if you were her you'd say the same thing and the v3gan is right & the carnivore is right & the conservative is right & the liberal is right- because everyone is right all the time and I promise if you were in their shoes, you'd see it. You'd see it. Even when someone Says the dumbest stuff known to existence, from where they are standing, they're right. Debates are pointless. Extremely. You can not fathom the kind of life others have had, not even your siblings or children- what then gives you the confidence to decide what should be right to them? Know your place.

So human interactions work better when you understand these, they just do. Once you no longer feel the need to justify your pov because you know you're literally the only one with it it's just makes things, easier thats why the apostle Paul said to never argue with people about opinions, its useless & tempts them and you to sin. It makes you more understanding & empathetic & pleasant & sophisticated to be around, it's the winners draw. You unlearn the need to argue because you know they'll never see it like you and you'll never see it like them so you take the high road and find middle ground or nod along and go home or find a way to say I don't agree, but I can accommodate that you think like that, and watch how people completely flock to you. There's no power , at all, to 'my way or no way' find your own little planet & leave that thewizardliz mindset on YouTube. Human beings are social relational creatures, part of relationships is accommodation.

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hotdaemondtargaryen · 3 months ago

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EWAN MITCHELL INTERVIEWED BY TV GUIDE.

AEMOND HAS BEEN PRINCE REGENT FOR A FEW EPISODES NOW. IS RULING THE REALM WHAT HE EXPECTED?

"He's probably got a little more than he bargained for."

"I think he's starting to feel the weight of that crown on his head."

"In Episode 7, you had Rhaenyra raise new dragonriders."

"And so that puts into question that belief that Targaryens have always been closer to gods than [to] men."

"That divide between dragonlords and common folk has now been shrunk in Aemond."

"He recognizes that he's outnumbered, dragon-wise — out-dragoned, should I say."

"And so you start to see that in Episode 8, he starts to get a little bit desperate."

"But he's still got a few things up his sleeve."

SO WHAT RHAENYRA DID MADE HIM FEEL LESS LIKE A GOD?

"Definitely."

"And what he does as well, in retaliation — in a fit of rage, he burns the town of Sharp Point, which is the seed of Bar Emmon who sits on Rhaenyra's council, who very much pledged to the Black side of the war."

"And it's interesting because although it was an act of anger, geographically the town of Sharp Point is situated very close to the Gullet."

"And so maybe Aemond is warming up the blockade for things to come in Season 3."

"That's kind of how he kids himself, that's how he justifies his actions."

THAT'S INTERESTING. I'M ALSO WONDERING, WHO ON THE SMALL COUNCIL DOES HE TRUST THE MOST RIGHT NOW, AND WHO DOES HE TRUST THE LEAST?

"Well, is there any council member left? I think he sent them all away."

"[Laughs.] It was really interesting exploring those scenes as well, when Aemond was on one side of the table, and how he was serving the war effort."

"Then when he gets voted as Prince Regent, he sits on the other end of the table, and now he looks at all of these council members through a very different lens."

And it's like, "How can each of you serve me? Who's with me, who's against me?"

"He's very earnest in a way."

"And he ultimately disbands the council table, he's not one who cares that much for tradition."

"In terms of who my favorite is, it would probably be Criston Cole (Fabien Frankel)."

"I think Aemond trusts Cole to do his job."

"And the person that he doesn't trust, it would be Larys (Matthew Needham)."

"I think he can see through him a little bit."

LARYS TOLD AEGON HE HAS TO ESCAPE BECAUSE OTHERWISE AEMOND WOULD KILL HIM. WHY HASN'T AEMOND KILLEM HIM?

"I don't want to give away too much, but one of the things that I loved in Episode 6 is when Aemond gives Aegon the king's marker back, and he kind of presses it into his wounded stomach."

"Is he doing that to inflict pain on Aegon?"

Or is he doing it as a way to say, "Don't worry, the king's seat will be there for you when you get better?"

"So, Aemond's true allegiance is questionable."

"You don't necessarily know what his ambitions are, but that's what makes him scary."

WHAT YOU SAID AS THE SECOND INTERPRETATION — ABOUT THE KING'S SEAT STILL BEING THERE FOR AEGON — IS FASCINATING. BECAUSE AFTER HIS ACTIONS, I WAS DEFINITELY LEANING TOWARD THE FIRST INTERPRETATION WHEN I WATCHED THAT SCENE.

"Aemond, he raises those questions."

"One of the things that I love about watching film and TV, is the conversation it sparks afterwards."

"I love that almost as much as watching the film, and having that debate with friends — their angles on what characters' hidden motivations might be."

"And I love deciphering it all."

("HE NEVER ACTUALLY FELT THAT UNCONDITIONAL LOVE FROM ALICENT AND SO HE HAD TO FIND IT ELSEWHERE. HE HAD TO FIND ANOTHER SUITABLE SURROGATE, I THINK HE FOUND ONE IN VHAGAR, AN OLDER SHE-DRAGON," MITCHELL HAD TOLD TV GUIDE.) WOULD YOU SAY THIS DECISION SHOWS THAT HE'S GIVEN UP ON TRYING TO WIN HIS MOM'S APPROVAL OR LOVE?

"No, I don't think he's given up."

"I don't think he'll ever give up."

"I think he very much didn't want his mom at work."

"So he was like, mom, you just step outside for a minute."

"I'm going to finish this war, and then when it's done, I'll join you on a Dornish beach."

"We can share a Piña Colada, and I'll be the war hero."

"You can be the mother I always wanted you to be, and it'll all be good in Aemond's eye, and peaceful."

"Whether or not that's what Alicent wants, or whether that's her idea of happiness, is another thing."

SO HE SAW IT AS AN ACT OF PROTECTION.

"Yeah."

"Or maybe you could look at it from the fact that he just doesn't want his mom's voice on the council table."

"And he does have a grudge against her for the way that she raised him."

AND WHEN YOU SAID SHE CAN BE THE MOM HE ALWAYS WANTED HER TO BE, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?

"I think one that just has love for him."

"That's how we beat Aemond, it's with love."

"We gotta give him a hug."

THERE'S ALSO THE BIG SCENE WITH HELAENA WHERE SHE TELLS HIM HE'LL DIE. FIRST, WOULD YOU SAY HE FULLY BELIEVES HER, KNOWING HER PROPHETIC GIFTS? AND HOW DO YOU IMAGINE THIS INFORMATION WILL AFFECT HIS CHOICES GOING FORWARD?

"I think he definitely believes some part of Helaena's foresight to be true."

He witnesses that when he's named Prince Regent, and Helaena stood behind him, she asks, "Was it all worth it?"

"And witnessing what Helaena says to him at the end of the [season], it challenges his beliefs."

"He always had an idea of how things were going to play out."

"He felt very bulletproof, to an extent."

"And so to hear that belief be put to question by Helaena, it kind of shakes his world."

"And I think Aemond, he's got to sit down and let that information marinate a little bit."

"But as we know, he doesn't sit still for long."

"He's going to be up on his feet and he's going to retaliate ASAP."

WE'VE SEEN HIM QUITE BOLD AND IMPULSIVE. DO YOU THINK HAVING THAT KNOWLEDGE OF HIM DYING WILL MAKE HIM MORE CAUTIOUS?

"I think it's interesting, because the knowledge that Helaena shares with Aemond, it's information that could make Aemond an enemy of her, or, on the other hand, it could actually make Helaena a very valuable ally for the Green side."

"Because with that perception, if you were able to harness that power and that foresight, I think if we listened to Helaena a lot more we might be in an even better position than we are now."

"And she could tell us about blows before they land, we can be one step ahead of the curve."

LOOKING BACK AT THIS SEASON, HOW DO YOU THINK AEMOND'S BOND WITH VHAGAR HAS GROWN?

"He's definitely got Vhagar on a leash."

"We acted more as a power couple in Season 2."

"Aemond learned from his mistakes in the skies of Storm's End from Season 1."

I think he listened to his grandfather Otto Hightower (Rhys Ifans) when he said, "You must get a grip on your emotions."

"And so I think he definitely had Vhagar on a tighter rein this season, and was a lot more in control, and that makes him all the more scary."

DEFINITELY AGREE ON THAT. AND DID YOU SAY YOU'RE A POWER COUPLE?

"Yeah, we're a power couple."

"She's beautiful, right?"

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arlakos · 5 months ago

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The High Road: A counterpoint to one of the most commonly used Salt Takes for Adrien.

This isn't really a salt fic idea, but since we are on the topic of salt on this blog, I'd like to take a moment to talk about a scene that has largely been used out of contex ever since Chameleon came out, and that is the infamous high road scene that has since been used to death for every Adrien salt story

For those who are unaware of this scene (or perhaps are unfamiliar with the canon version), in the episode Chameleon of Sesason 3, Marinette is about to go expose a plot hole in one of Lila's many fabrications, only for Adrien to stop her by stating that it won't change Lila for the better (Full Transcript Below). Keep this transcript in mind because I'll be referencing it a lot.

Now, this scene doesn't seem like something to be mad over, but the the whole episode of Chameleon has twisted a lot of people's perceptions of certain characters for the worse. This particular scene just happens to be one that changed people's pereceptions of Adrien.

However, I think its actually somewhat unjustified. I feel that in many ways, Chameleon as a whole has been misrepresented for what changes it has actually brought into the show, and I feel that it's easy to take a lot of moments in the episode out of context, especially when emotions come into play. The episode transcript actually happened to be leaked before it was supposed to be relased, so a lot of people already made up their minds about what this episode was about before it was released. It's easy to hate on this episode when you're friends in discord have watched it before you and have started to shout buzzwords such as "The class betrayed Marinette!" or "Adrien is a monster!", etc etc. I would know, since that was how I found out about the episode in the first place, and watching it for the first time didn't change my initial perceptions.

Today, I would like to take a moment to take the infamous high road scene and talk about what it meant for the salty portion of the fandom, before taking a metaphoically sledgehammer and slamming some misconceptions about Adrien from the perspective of salty people. Sure, they're other scenes that could be looked at, but since every salt fic tends to reuse this plot point, I feel it deserves its own deconstruction.

1. The High-Road scene is proof that Adrien is an asshole!

Now this statement is a bit of a buzzword since the actual reasons for people disliking this scene can vary, but to be fair, the reaction to this scene is also more nuanced as well.

In truth, a lot of people already had issues with Adrien/Chat Noir as a whole (for reasons that I won't elaborate here since it would be worth its own post), but this scene seemed to open the floodgates with hatred for our secondary protagonist out of his percieved inaction, since many people now had dislike for Adrien, while those who hated him prior were more than happy to provide fuel for the fire. After the episode was released, these ideas began to merge together, resulting in this belief that Adrien has always been an asshole, and that the Chameleon scene was simply the final straw, and that if the show was written by a good writer (read: anyone who hated the episode), Marinette would actually ditch his ass!

Now, its debatable on whether Adrien had writing issues prior to this point, but I feel that using this scene to justify hatred for him is outright slander for several reasons:

First of all, Adrien never suggested for Marinette to take the high road if we are being logistical about it. He only complimented her on that regard, telling her she did a good job for "taking the high road", and that was after he sat next to her to show he was by her side.

His actual message to Marinette was that it wasn't worth it to try expose Lila at that moment (and to be fair, it wouldn't have worked, more on that later though) because all it would do is make her double down on her behavior. Plus, trying to expose her in front of everyone would just hurt Lila more than help everyone else, which is, if anything, not untrue.

Overall, the advice Adrien gave to Marinette was not meant out of a desire to hurt anyone (least of all Marinette), but was out of a genuine desire to help resolve a situation and prevent Marinette from doing something that would not have helped the situation. Even if he does have other character flaws, this situation was by no means a reason to villainize him for it.

2. Adrien prefers Lila over Marinette, thats why he told the latter to take the high road!

Again, another idea that is found in fanfics, but is ultimately untrue in canon.

While Adrien doesn't believe Lila at all from the beginning of the episode, he isn't exactly just letting Lila's actions slide either; his stance comes from that of believing that Lila being decietful will do nothing to actually help her make friends. However, rather than confronting her angrily like Marinette does, Adrien instead tries to be friendly with her and try offer Lila some advice to try and change, albiet to no avail.

Now, some people might argue that Lila doesn't deserve kindness considering her threat to Marinette just moments ago, but it should be also stated that Adrien knows NOTHING about this: as far as he's aware, Lila is a transfer student looking to make friends, but has a wrong way of doing so (so in a way, she's not unlike him, from his POV at least), so he's just trying to help her, rather than attempt to force her out in the open.

(Quick tibit though, if Adrien knew what Lila did to Marinette, he would probably be more inclined to help her and protect his friends, given that he was willing to 'sacrifice' himself to get Marinette un-expelled in the Ladybug episode)

By the end of the episode Adrien is obviously dissapointed in Lila continuing to act the way that she is, but ultimately refuses to sink to Lila's level in order to teach her a lesson. As childish as it is (and it should be considering Adrien is a TEEN) Adrien believes that Lila's deceptions will ultimately come back to bite her (Adrien even tells her this himself, see below.), but trying to expose her in front of everyone else will do more harm to Lila than it will help others, hence his methods of speaking to her privately about it.

3. Adrien's reasoning is horrible and stupid! He deserves to pay for it!

This reasoning is the one I find the most dissapointing, partly because it inspired The Karma of Lies story (Written by CartoonAddict564), and also because while Adrien's reasoning can come off as naive, it is by no means stupid, nor should he have to suffer for having a different viewpoint for Marinette. But to understand, you need to think of Adrien in terms of his character.

Adrien is not just a celebrity, but also a child with a very controlling father, who pretty much controls and manages his day to day life with the help of his secretary. As a result of his popularity, Adrien has to be very careful with what he says or does, not only because it would reflect poorly onto his father's company, but it would also force his father to step in. As the Collector has shown, Adrien being able to even LEAVE the home is something that could easily be revoked at any time, and being Cat Noir has only loosened the bars on his cell, not remove them completely. Adrien has very little to gain by confronting Lila, but everything to lose, which is in direct contrast to Marinette having everything to lose by letting Lila walk by.

So in the face of all that, plus the situation he is in now, why would he not act passive and provide advice to try mitigate conflict rather than escalate it?

Now whether or not that should be seen as selfish is debatable, it's ultimately not out of character for Adrien to try and provide more passive options to deal with Lila rather than go for the most violent option. You could even argue that Adrien's actions are also out kindness to Marinette, since (in his eyes at least) it could get her in trouble with her own parents if they try and confront Lila violently.

At worst, Adrien's passiveness is a result of his controlled upbringing. At best? He was just trying to help without causing conflict.

4. Adrien shouldn't have stopped Marinette from confronting Lila!

.... im sorry to say this, but yes he absolutely should have.

Marinette was about to confront Lila over which ear her supposed tinnitus was in. Aside from the fact trying to expose her on this alone would not have worked, this would have just resulted in Marinette becoming more estranged from her classmates in this situation. If Marinette should have confronted Lila about her lying, this was DEFINTELY NOT the way to do it.

This isn't to say that Marinette could not have confronted Lila, but this moment simply was not it. There were better alternatives to Marinette that she could employ in the future had she thought of doing so (such as coming to Alya as Ladybug and revealing that her frienship with Lila is a lie), or carrying a voice recorder to record any threats made by Lila.

As uncathartic as the situation was, from a writing standpoint Adrien's inteference ultimately helped Marinette keep her friendships in the long run, while avoiding making a fool of herself with a battle she simply could not win.

5. It's Adrien's fault that Marinette didn't go after Lila! Marinette would have been better if she brushed him off!

This sounds crazy, but this is a genuine point that people seem to mention when it comes to their reasons for writing salt fics. Even if Adrien's attempts to dissaude Marinette were out of concern rather than malice, people still condemn Adrien for pushing Marinette off that path of going after Lila. In their eyes, Marinette didn't get her immediate revenge for what Lila did, and Lila herself was allowed to continue manipulating the class. All of this becomes Adrien's fault by virtue of being the one to deny this from happening, denying the fans their catharsis.

However, the question I ask it that for all the blame they give to Adrien in this situation ... how come nobody blames Marinette at all for the same thing?

See, despite people argue that Adrien manipulated Marinette into not going after Lila, Marinette isn't necassarily gullible or stupid. If Marinette really thought that Lila was a threat worth going after, she could and would have easily found a way to take Lila down and get her removed, with or without Adrien's support (given she made a similar plan in season 5 for when Gabriel tried to get the Kwamis to lead him to Marinette). She wouldn't even need a miraculous to do so given she can make plans without transforming, and most of Lila's lies aren't particularly smart, they just can't be immediately discredited without proof.

And it can't even be argued that Adrien took advantage of Marinette's love for him (whether intentionally or not). Marinette has shown that even though she does value her friends, she doesn't need to rely on the validation of others to do whatever she feels is right (given that she argued against Alya and others in Risk when it came to their belief that Adrien was fine, even though she was partly amped by an akuma at the time). And if Marinette did think that Adrien was wrong, she probably wouldn't have continued to crush on him anymore.

Also its kind of lowkey sexist? Like, Marinette can probably make her own decisions, she doesn't need someone to dictate her own actions given she's the leader of a superhero team?

Ultimately, Marinette made the choice not to go after Lila. Perhaps she thought that Lila wasn't worth it. Maybe she thought that taking down Lila wasn't worth the time and stress. Maybe she ended up agreeing with Adrien and thought that Lila would expose herself sooner rather than later with her own deceptions. Either way, Marinette can make her own decisions, and she ultimately thought that going after Lila was not a good idea, for whatever reason.

Now, some people might be upset about this idea that Marinette is to blame, but people can't just play the blame game and expect their target to lose. It would honestly be preferrable to say that both Adrien and Marinette made a decision that (for better or worse) thought was good at the time and that neither should be judged for it, but the fandom doesn't seem to care for that because that means their salt fics would be invalid.

Thus, since people want to blame Adrien for apparently "manipulating" Marinette, Marinette should get equal blame for allowing herself to be manipulated by Adrien. Sucks to hear it, but since nobody calls out Marinette on her shit, I might as well be the first. Sorry if it triggers you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

So ... what does this all mean?

It means that my boy Adrien is innocent.

He meant no harm by suggesting that Marinette not go after Lila, nor did he do it because he took Lila's side over Marinette's. At best, he was unaware of how evil Lila was and thought she was misunderstood, and at worse he defaulted to using the same ideas that he uses to protect what limited freedoms he had, and offered it to Marinette as geunine advice. Marinette isn't a pushover either, meaning that not only did she also think what Adrien said was a good idea, but the fandom is inadvertently being sexist by implying she can't be independent and can't make her own decisions, given that she's shown her own independence multiple times. At best, both characters made a dumb decision that they thought was good, but neither can be soley responsible.

Ultimately, Chameleon was an episode that gave Adrien (and whoever else was targeted) a bad rep due to the kneejerk reaction everyone had to the episode due to Lila's lies, myself included. In truth, nothing of what happened in the episode had any actual long term effects, since Marinette still kept her friends and Lila didn't end up playing any major role for nearly 2 seasons, at least until season 5 finally got rid of 'Lila' and set up 'Cerise' to be the new Butterfly villain.

It took me a long while to put this belief into words, and it may be 2 seasons too late, but at least I can upload it now knowing that this truth could possible be shared with the world. Maybe it will stop the excess of salt fics in the world, and allow for new salt free works to be made. Who knows?

Anyways, I hope you found this to be an interesting read as I had writing it!

#miraculous ladybug #miraculous ladybug salt #chameleon salt #miraculous chameleon salt #marinette salt #but only a pinch of it #adrien sugar #let mah boi adrien go he did nothing wrong #y'all act like he blew up the moon or something #“foreshadowing 2 seasons late”

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the-alarm-system · 6 months ago

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The Comparison of Sysmedicalist and Transmedicalist: From a former Truscum.

The debate on the moral validity of the term “Sysmed” is repeatedly brought up within pro-endo and endo-neutral spaces. As a former Truscum, while I agree that the core of sysmedicalism and transmedicalism are not the same (dysphoria vs trauma), I feel that the arguments used to justify the projection of these beliefs are very similar to another. Transmeds and sysmeds are parallel in the use of fake claiming, black and white view of the science behind their arguments, and the idea that in order to be valid one must dislike their identity.

To begin with, the idea of sysmedicalism is on who is genuinely plural and who is not. Sysmedicalists are the gatekeepers of the system community; if you do not have trauma, you are immediately viewed as fake before you can defend yourself. If not fake, then sysmeds will be pushed that endos have trauma that they have repressed. This is an argument that can be seen through the disorders most anti-endos struggle with are inflicted in order to cope with past trauma. This is a standard view in the transmedicalist community in relation to gender dysphoria. If you are a non-dysphoric transsexual, you either are ignoring it or faking it. This is also an argument that can be understood: It’s very difficult to be transgender in an unaccepting society and an uncomfortable body, so repression may be done to cope. However, these arguments deny the fluidity of gender and plurality. They state that these things are intrinsic to struggle, and if you did not struggle then you are lying to yourself in one way or the other. It denies the liberation to label diverse experiences that do not fit in the perspective of these severely hurting people. In return, they use fake claims to express the insult they feel over the idea that someone is like them but not did not endure the same they did. Endogenics are not claiming to have a dissociative disorder, they are claiming plurality. Nondysphorics are not claiming to have gender dysphoria; they are claiming transgenderism. These things, again, are not exclusive to trauma or gender dysphoria. The term plural was made with the intent to self-identify and find liberation beyond the binary view of gatekeepers, as was the term transgender, which was made without medical transition in mind. Sysmeds and transmeds also argue that these “fakers” are taking up vital resources needed by those who are suffering. This is entirely unfair, as the reason these resources are limited is because of the lack of acceptance of both things, which the plural and transgender acceptance movements have opposed. “Trenders are taking surgeries they don’t need!” is matched against “Endos are taking DID specialist they don’t need!” and the only reason behind them is that it’s the only area they can find acceptance even if it’s inside strict spaces like needing gender dysphoria diagnosis and needed trauma. Truscum and Sysmeds have some responsibility for upholding these views on ourselves by pushing how plural and transgender experiences are completely disordered and only bring misery; obviously, seeing this come from them would cause cis and singlets to believe our so-called wrongness. Those who do not appeal to the painting of wrongness must be faking right? In my experience, and this is entirely on perspective, I was influenced to be anti-endo and anti-tucute by cringe culture that circled Fake DID videos and Transgender Cringe videos. Even while I was singlet, I denied my own plurality because I was afraid of being like those I saw in the videos. While I was truscum, I denied my genderqueerness because I didn’t want to prove these horrible transphobes right. I recognize now how often Anti-endos and truscums bring up cringe subreddits to back up their points, and it reminds me of my fear back then. In order to accept myself, I had to break free from the bars put up by society and those within the community. As always, this met with backlash, but I realized that either way, I would be despised for being who I was. Truscum and Anti endos put up this illusion that the people they hate are the reason for systems and trans people being even more stigmatized when in reality the oppressor is going to hate us all the same. Calling the ones who don’t fit in “fakes” is not going to make you “one of the good ones”, and the fact that both truscum and sysmeds are against acceptance movements is hypocritical in their stigma argument.

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To continue, it’s often that sysmedicalist warp their argument to make it seem that endogenics are claiming to have DID without trauma. Their sources are almost always DID articles rather than articles of plurality which back up endogenic existence. Doctors who are in favor of endogenic existence are perceived as ignorant of dissociation and for the denial of resources to those in need. In science, it must be met with an open mind and the possibility for more. Research is constantly shifting and changing, and the medical paradigm is never stagnant. How does this compare to a transmedicalist however? The sources they use to justify their argument are just gender dysphoria articles that don’t include the full range of transgender people. The perspective they have is closed around sources with obvious limits when the proof against them is open minded and includes professionals they deem as liars. Personally, I never understood why they would both say how ableist the realm of psychology is towards systems yet use its strictness to hurt other systems.

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Furthermore, misery is at the core of both of these beliefs, and to which I understand these beliefs come from both fear, feelings of powerlessness, and self-loathing. To refute endogenics, anti endos bring up how miserable it is to be a system. They push their preference to be singlet and final fuse as a reason for why they are actually plural. This is familiar to transmedicalists; there is a video by Kalvin Garrah where he states that if he had the option to be a cisgender girl, he would do anything for it, as dysphoria is one of the highest forms of suffering. He argues that in order to be actually transgender, you would have to hate being trans. These feelings are valid to oneself yes, but they are projected onto endogenics and non-dysphorics as an answer to why they don’t exist. Plural and Transgender joy is rejected in these spaces because it goes against the guidelines they follow in order to be valid. If your entire existence is only because of disorder and pain, then if you’re happy in it, aren’t you as bad as the others? These are traumatized people who go after others in order to uplift themselves and appeal to singlets and cisgender people. These spaces have intersected because of how similar the arguments are(This is not to say that there isn’t an exclusionist issue within endo spaces, there definitely is, but what they are doing is just hypocrisy), and they constantly feed off gatekeeping to make themselves feel valid enough.

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In conclusion, truscum and sysmeds use fake claiming, closed-minded arguments, and projection of misery to debate why those who are unlike them are illegitimate. The medicalization of transgenderism and plurality compared to the push of acceptance is going to instead further the stigma. This essay was written to compare the two in the sense of their use of arguments, not to say that they are purely the exact same, even at the core. This essay is open to discussion as I would like to improve my writing for the future. The future is plural, which is why we fight.

#pro endo #tw transmed #tw sysmed #tw syscourse #plural system #plurality #actually plural #plural community #traumagenic system #syscourse tw #syscourse #anti sysmed #fuck sysmeds #fuck truscum #actually did #did osdd #did system #the future is plural #essays

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queerprayers · 6 months ago

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judensau

luther inspired hitler, following him is a step away from following hitler

Welcome, beloved. I don't want to dismiss your message, but I do want to make some things clear. I, like many, have horrors in my religion that I have to be able to address, and prejudices that I do not perpetuate consciously but know that I nonetheless have absorbed from culture, and am responsible for healing. Antisemitism within Christianity is a huge topic, with people devoting their lives to studying it. I would not fault any Jewish person for antagonism toward my communities--you would be right to be wary, and if I intend to continue participating in these communities, I must be able to understand and accept any justified anger or distrust coming my way.

I'd encourage everyone reading to learn more about this through the Wikipedia link, but a brief description/summary for those who don't want details/images: The mentioned article is about an antisemitic artistic trope from the Middle Ages. The church where Martin Luther preached included an image of this sort from 1305.

Martin Luther was antisemitic. This isn't up for debate. There is more to say, of course--we can look at how his attitudes changed over his life (for the worse, to be clear), we can talk about the extent to which he specifically influenced Nazism (this is a complicated conversation that I'm not qualified for)--but he was undeniably, horrifically, antisemitic. There's a Wikipedia page solely devoted to this topic.

That said, there's huge diversity within Lutheranism, seeing as it's a large religious tradition, and if you're interested in learning about Lutheranism and Hitler specifically, I'd encourage you to look into the split within the German Lutheran Church in 1933 and Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the Lutheran theologian who was hanged at the Flossenbürg concentration camp. It's fascinating to look back at that while living through such religious division in America right now.

Luther was a complicated man, who did not set out to found a church, and opposed the term "Lutheran." He was attempting to reform the Catholic Church from the inside, because he himself was Catholic. Not a very good one, obviously, but he didn't consider himself anything else. He was a monk for a time, then an academic, and his beliefs got him excommunicated. I've read some of his writings, but not all. I find value in them, while disagreeing with a lot of it. Lutheranism is a space with which I have fellowship with God and humanity, not a set of rules or a devotion to every word of a man from the 16th century. I'm not interested in excusing or defending him, nor do I feel the need to honor him in any way. I hope I disappoint him completely.

I am a Lutheran Christian--and I would not fault anyone for thinking those words function similarly. So to explain: I'm a Christian as in I follow Christ, devote myself to his teachings, pray to him, and live for him every day. I'm a Lutheran as in I am a member of a church and culture that traces back to communities of German Protestants who identified with the theology of Martin Luther. I do not follow Martin Luther. I do not follow Lutheranism. I follow God, and participate in Christianity often within Lutheran communities--primarily because of my heritage and the music.

Protestants don't have Saints in the Catholic sense, nor do we have a pope. Martin Luther is not our Saint, or someone we pray through, or our leader. We don't read his writings in church, we don't look to him for answers. He's someone many people have found wisdom in, someone who has inspired countless reformers, but he is a man. A saint in the Lutheran sense, a lowercase-s saint, a member of Christ's community--a sinner from his mother's womb. He probably wrote more about his own sin then you ever will. He devolved into conspiracy, and said horrible things about Judaism and Catholicism and Islam, and we have seen the legacy of German antisemitism (which he did not create, but obviously contributed to), and it's a good thing I don't idolize him. I honestly don't think about him very much. Yes, I read his catechism in Bible classes, but we were free to disagree with it--we were using his most basic writings as a starting point. The words of his that are most present in my life are his hymns, which we do sing often. His teachings were intended to lead people to the Bible rather than leaders/traditions, which is why he translated the Bible into German, and why I go to the Bible, not to him. I learned about his antisemitism growing up, and prayed for repentance on behalf of my ancestors.

There are people who hold Luther in higher esteem than me, to be sure. Do I think they're basically following Hitler? I don't know. It depends why they value him, I would say. Idolizing anyone is dangerous, especially men in the 1500s. I can think of no historical male writer I value that was not at least slightly misogynist. The two authors I've read today, Virginia Woolf and Shakespeare, both have antisemitic writing. Countless people sainted by the Catholic Church, and countless popes, have been antisemitic. There is no innocent tradition. I'm not trying to excuse any of this, or say we shouldn't be critical, but this is why we don't base religions on people. They have to be founded and organized by people, which means there's going to be issues (and Christianity's are quite obvious), but Christians have to remind ourselves every day that the only human we worship is the one who was God.

I wish you well, beloved. I'm glad you see the evil in my religion, genuinely. Not enough people do. I hope you continue educating people and being active in your fight against antisemitism--if you're not Jewish yourself, hopefully this shows up more as supporting Jewish people and communities, and less like borderline accusing people online for following Hitler because they still use the word for their traditions that their Norwegian great-grandparents did, because it's the word that stuck from the beginning. We're named after Luther's excommunication, not his antisemitism--Catholics would have had to change their name to Lutheran too if that was the theological issue happening. There's a whole conversation to be had on whether we should call ourselves Lutheran, but regardless, the communities and heritage exist, and will continue to evolve.

May God have mercy on the crimes of my community members. May God lead me to walk in the way of justice. May our religion serve us, and may we serve God.

<3 Johanna

#always feel ill equipped to talk about this subject #and feel dismissive when I don't #so here's what i got today #i love you jewish followers

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a-very-tired-jew · 5 months ago

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"It's not my job to educate you."

How often have you seen this statement?

I've personally lost count, and I'm a scientist that has been active since the anti-GMO, anti-Ag, and anti-Vaxx discourses of the 00s.

I've seen it for years used as a way to completely halt discussions when the speaker is backed into a corner and cannot support their position. I've seen it used as a defense when they try and put forth extremely biased and/or outright incorrect resources and are called out for it. I've seen it used when a person wants to make their opinion and outrageous claims known without defending them whatsoever.

And here's the thing, you're right. It's not your job to educate others.

But you've also entered into a conversation, discussion, or debate where people are backing their opinions with arguments, experiences, and citations. When you use this statement you essentially say you want to enter this conversation with no confrontation to your own personal beliefs, thoughts, and ideals.

That's childish. That's the kid on the playground saying "nuh uh, you didn't get me cause I'm actually on base right now. Yeah, I know it's a stick on the ground, but I said it's base so it's base."

Personally? I hate this statement. In my own circles I've seen it used by the most uneducated ignorant people to justify conspiracies or beliefs that actively harm them and/or others. I've seen my friends with no formal scientific education or experience who fell down the anti-science rabbit hole use it as a way to deflect from their ignorance.

In Leftist spaces I've seen it used to bring discussions to a stop and dismiss another person. "It's not my job to educate you!" while the very same person was just trying to educate the other on the topic being discussed. This is often accompanied with the "Do your own research", which inevitably leads to the person not coming to the same conclusions as the person who uttered the aforementioned phrases. Said person then becomes upset when the other doesn't come to the same conclusions, but again..."it's not my job to educate you (I'm just mad you're not educated in the way I want)".

In a professional setting I have seen it used to justify outright ignorance, conspiracy, and vitriol by people who have no understanding of the subject matter at hand.

People often say they love discussion and debate, but in reality they just like making their opinion known with no opposition.

And this leads me to the point of this wall of text...it's a very culturally goyische thing to do.

The conversations on Cultural Christianity made me think about this and it sort of hit me. We, Jews, are a "contentious" people. We question, argue, and debate to the point where it's a stereotype in media (an accurate one, but a stereotype nonetheless). But what this stereotype leaves out is that discussion and debate is often accompanied by education. We, typically, revel in this type of discourse and love to argue and learn from the argument. Even if none of us come away with a new position.

The joke "2 Jews, 3 opinions" actually highlights how we come to a greater understanding through our "contentiousness". Our discussions are often meant to educate one another and explore trains of thought we didn't previously have. At no point in the Talmud do you ever see someone state "It's not my job to educate you" and only after every avenue of argument has been exhausted do they devolve into sniping at one another about dick size. If you've seen any posts since 10/7 by Jews on here you will often see an active discussion with an attempt to educate if and when people interact.

However, there is the caveat that some people end up sealioning. In these situations it is completely fine to shut down the entire thing as they're simply wanting you to waste your energy until they have a "gotcha" moment. Eventually you will say something that does not necessarily agree with a previous statement and they will pounce on that. In such a situation you just need to leave the conversation entirely. Sealions are bad faith actors and not actually interested in anything outside of their own opinions.

Healthy discussion and debate, which is encouraged in Judaism, does not look like sealioning. It does not look like getting answers you don't like so you keep asking the same thing in a different way until you get what you want. It's like someone arguing with the DM repeatedly to get a spell to do something outside of its defined application and way outside of its possible application even when the DM says no.

Now, you might be saying "but in my non-Jewish household we encourage this kind of thinking!" and that's good. But we are talking about cultural generalities and trends here. If you live in the Midwest or Southern USA you will have encountered a multitude of Culturally Christian people who have their own personal history about how discussion, debate, and education is shut down (sometimes in a violent manner). If you've existed anywhere a hot button topic becomes discussed there is a strong chance you have experienced this statement, either online or in person, and witnessed the complete halt and shift in dialogue it causes. This is by no fault your own or the other persons, but there is a distinct cultural difference in general.

If you're someone who is offended by this, I want you to sincerely ask. Is questioning, discussion, and debate earnestly encouraged in your culture? Is it encouraged towards authority figures? Does it make certain topics taboo? What happens when children question authority figures?

#jumblr #wall of text #discussion and debate discourse #Cultural encouraged to ask “Why?”#Culturally encouraged to ask “Why?” to an annoying extent #We like to discuss and debate but we also recognize people who are disingenuous in their intent #Not everything is a debate - but when it is there are certain expectation

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whereserpentswalk · 1 year ago

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"Christianity can totally be pro queer" or "the Bible isn't actually homophobic if you just interpret this in this one secret way" is inherently a harmful take. Because it presumes that gay people have to be accepted by Christianity inorder to have rights.

The answer to whether or not or not the Bible supports queer rights should be that it doesn't matter. The idea that we need to be approved by the Bible to have rights is a presumption that's always going to make every right we have a negotiation with cishet people.

Also, I legitimately don't think there's an answer to whether the Bible supports queer rights or not because I'm not Christian and thus don't believe the Bible to have one true meaning. It's just an ancient book, written by humans, over hundreds of years, with no single author. It's like compiling everything written under the Warhammer license, adding in some fanfic for good measure, and arguing over its stance on social issues.

For me personally my polytheism means I especially don't care about what any holy book has to say about homosexuality. Even if it was written by a god I can choose to condemn that god for their beliefs just like I would a human. I accept that there are some gods who I shouldn't interact with just like there are some people I shouldn't interact with.

Remember that the correct response to someone justify their bigotry with religion, is not to start debating their religion, its to tell them their religion is irrelevant. Like, if you think supporting queer people will send you to hell then go to hell about it.

#my thougts #queer history #queer rights #queer #anti christianity #chrsitianity #queer christian #catholiscism #warhammer #warhammer 40k #radical queer #theology #paganism

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wishingicouldfly · 10 months ago

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Why I Believe Larry Is Real

It’s been a long time since I’ve done one of my opinion essays. This week I was asked to justify my belief that Larry is real, and that Harry and Louis are together. It feels like it’s time.

::cracks knuckles::

I’ve thought about how to reply to the demand, which came from someone on X (formerly Twitter). I cannot compel someone who isn’t inclined to believe in Larry to suddenly change their mind. If someone doesn’t want to interpret the signs the same way I do, that’s their prerogative. But that said, I decided to give some thought about how to answer the question.

I’ve been inspired by IndiaAlphaWhiskey and her recent reply to a similar question. I loved the way she answered by talking about long term love and how it’s steady and doesn't need to have a lot of fireworks visible from the outside. It’s hard to put that into words that make sense to someone who hasn’t witnessed it. Here’s her original reply:

The reality is we do not have solid proof that they were or - as I believe - still are in a relationship. Nor should we. H&L are closeted celebrities who keep their private life private. They are closeted, so you won’t see them admitting to being in a relationship in interviews; that would defeat the point of being closeted. In fact, you may think you’ve heard them outright deny being together. Again, if you’re not looking at the clues, and you only want to take this at face value, you’re not going to see any other possible narrative. Full stop. If that’s the case, you’re not going to agree with me, and that’s fine.

If you really want to go down a rabbit hole, my friend @bkatie617 keeps a running spreadsheet on perceived coincidences in the current era.

https://x.com/BKatie617/status/1739715223244742755?s=20

I can list out a hundred things that, to me, are coded messages H&L have signaled to either us or to each other. You can debunk/deny/laugh-out-loud at all of them, if you want. You might call something coincidence or debunk one or more of these pieces. And yes, there are things out there that aren’t true, that are completely coincidence or debatable – or wildly unbelievable.

I get that. In fact, I have a whole thread of debunks on my Twitter bio. My debunk thread focuses on factual, hard-proof debunks to help veterans and newcomers keep the story straight.

https://x.com/Rosann_1986/status/1670101749267406848?s=20

But there are a hundred more things that are real. Or at least open to interpretation. At some point, it becomes really, really unlikely that everything is a coincidence over the last decade, and you have to admit that H&L are in collaboration with their messaging. For me, once you admit they are in collaboration in their messaging, it doesn’t take a huge leap to believe they are together romantically. Why else would their teams coordinate messaging to the media and the masses?

Harry even said, in 2022, “There’s not many [clues and tidbits] that get left behind. Most of the time, they usually pick up on pretty much everything, along with a couple of hilarious coincidences that were never meant to be, never meant to be kind of clues in the first place that happen… end up being clues.”

Source: Harry Styles talks to the Morning Mash Up about his new single, 'As It Was', Coachella, and more (siriusxm.ca)

You don’t have to believe any of it. I’m fine with that. But because you don’t believe it, doesn’t mean I’m not completely, unwavering, solidly adamant in my own belief that it’s real. Especially if you’re not providing any evidence to sway my beliefs.

Here’s what I think: I think Harry and Louis met and fell in love during X-Factor in 2010, began dating, and continued to fall while on the X-Factor tour and the recording of the first single and album. I believe they made it official in 2011. Over the years, they went through hard times through career changes, loss of family members, solo career ups and downs, differences in career trajectory, doubts and fears, and then the pandemic. I believe they weathered all that and are together and committed to this day.

I think they live a private life and have no intention of coming out or going public any time soon. Harry said to Rolling Stone last year that he hasn’t publicly “been with anyone.” I also think, even though they are determined to stay private, they like the idea of some fans knowing and supporting them. Seeing their true, authentic selves. So, they’ve gotten good at messaging their truth to fans who want to see it and support it.

Due to industry pressure and 'image' clauses in their contract, I think they were encouraged by record execs and management to keep their relationship quiet, but rebelled (as teenagers, young adults, and fools in love will do) by insinuating double meanings in interviews and signaling to those in the know ever since.

I think the signaling started in One Direction days when fans began to pick up on the signs they gave each other - the secret looks, the thumbs up, their complementary tattoos.

When they saw fans remaining loyal, despite the idea they might be gay/queer and together, the signals turned more outward and louder, with Harry’s blue bandana, lyrics, the rainbow bears, and more. I think it continues today with graphic t-shirts, even more lyrics, matching merch, intentional mirroring in stage lighting and costumes, and more.

Evidence Larry are together Now

Understand that there’s no solid “proof” that H&L are together now. So, if that’s what you’re here looking for, you won’t find it. They are closeted still, both portraying a heterosexual narrative in the media.

My lens (admittedly biased) is that they are together and hint to us, but that most of what they do these days is for each other. Little inside jokes from across the world or across the room to show they are together. Despite them being separated for work a lot, I believe these little nods to each other helps keep their connection healthy and strong across the time apart.

What follows is a small sampling of what I think is intentional messaging from H&L, meant to suggest to those following that they are still together. Nothing is a proof. Nothing by itself is anything more than coincidence. But taken together, these along with other examples, show two men who are speaking through their actions, in my humble opinion.

They have strikingly similar patterns in their merch for FITF and HSLOT.

Harry’s merch looks like it would be comfortable at Louis’ show.

Harry drew H and L on his trainers on May 10, 2022 on a pap walk in Italy.

Both Harry and Louis used some of the same songs for their pre- and post-show playlists. https://www.tumblr.com/bluewinnerangel/702446259292831744/do-you-see-any-commonalities-between-harry-and

They both had really intentional blue/green stage lights at their shows. For anyone who doesn’t know, blue and green were their respective assigned colors when they were in One Direction. Certainly not a proof on its own but coupled with other things adds to the intentionality.

Complementary stage outfits. See this whole thread by @grete418 on X. It’s tongue in cheek, but it demonstrates what I mean about outfits matching/complementing each other. https://twitter.com/Grete418/status/1536453046611369989

Harry dressed as Danny Zuko at Harryween 2022 (coincidentally, Louis’ one and only lead role in a high school musical). https://twitter.com/UpdateHLD/status/1587297649572585473

Louis namechecked his unreleased song “All Along” in September 2022 (here at about 5:20), which strongly references Harry and a concert they attended together.. https://youtu.be/D9NjoMuz5-s?si=eRB-FwLI9JveMK3N

Louis wearing his 'dancing man' top when the 'dancing Harry' figure is so well known.

Similar visual themes like this. Same assignment, different execution. (Harry’s House/Silver Tongues):

Louis’ new tattoos (2023) appear to be images already seen on Harry’s journal cover and eye motif from HSLOT, plus they add to the existing traditional nautical motif they share.

T-shirt in Music Video for Music for a Sushi Restaurant reading LT Seniors.

Louis used fan images of Harry’s tattoos as Spotify cover art in February 2021.

Lyrics that seem to respond to each other, and/or have similar themes

Louis wears a rose (like Harry’s tattoo) on his shirt on 6/26/23…next night Harry wears a very phallic shaped rocket ship that looks a lot like Louis’ dagger tattoo. Seems like a call and response.

Louis singing 7 by Catfish and the Bottlemen, on both his tours. The song begins, “Larry call a load of smoke in…”

Added: (5/29/24). Louis announces his "For Every Question Why" Live Stream event via Veeps on 5/27/24. Two days later (5/29/29), Harry turns up in Florence, Italy, wearing an Elmo shirt with the word Why? via Twitter: (1) Ali ~So Be It! on X: "Just leaving this here. https://t.co/Mdty8DRLDE" / X

So there you have it. I could obviously go on for quite a bit, with many more examples, but I think this is a pretty good sampling. If you’d like to know more, or talk about it, feel free to DM me here or on X (@Rosann_1986). I don’t do this to try to change anyone’s mind. If you don’t believe they are doing these things intentionally, and aren’t curious or approaching this with an open mind, nothing I say will change that for you.

If you’re new here and you’d like to learn more, there are a lot of places to find master posts. Understand that you have to take everything with a grain of salt and come to your own conclusions. Here are a few places to start:

(2) Be a lover. Give love. Choose love. on Tumblr

It’s a beautiful war 🌈 (tumblr.com)

Great lyric analysis here: it's subjective - My song analyses Last edited December 22nd 2022,... (tumblr.com)

#larries #harry styles #louis tomlinson #why I think they are together #they are married #they love each other #closeted #they never broke up

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