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baby-babeyy · 5 months ago

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Jonmund + Targaryen Jon

AU where Robert’s rebellion doesn’t happen and Jon is brought up in Kings Landing with his father Rhaegar and his sibling’s after his mother dies giving birth to him.

He has a relatively happy childhood, but he knows his siblings resent him for not sharing their mother, and his fathers pained look every time he sees him tells him he’s nothing but a painful reminder of his mother.

As the second son, he’s not the immediate heir to the throne, so in an effort to connect with his mothers family his father allows him to ride north to spend time in Winterfell with the Starks.

He flourishes in the north, finding he fits in better than he does in the south- he certainly feels he’s more Stark than Targaryen.

The Starks love having him around, he and Robb become as close as brothers, Sansa adores his tales of life in the capital and he spends more time than is proper for a Prince playing with Arya, Bran and Rickon.

The years he spends at Winterfell are the happiest of his life yet, though he misses his father and his siblings the cold and wild terrain agrees with him far more than the heat and politics and social expectations of the south.

When they discover the direwolves, they offer one to Jon, telling him he’s as much a Stark as they are. He and Ghost become inseparable, but secretly Jon worries about what will happen when he has to return home, for Kings Landing is surely no place for a direwolf.

As he gets older he knows that the day he has to return south grows closer, so he decides to make the most of the north while he can, and takes to sneaking out on a night and riding alone with Ghost, as it’s the only way he can get away from the constant chaperones forced on him as a Prince.

One of the nights he’s out riding he’s hit by a terrible snowstorm, he falls from his horse, is separated from Ghost, and finds himself so cold he’s unable to move.

He lies there in the woods, no clue where he is for how long he doesn’t know; it could be minutes, it could be hours that he lies drifting in and out of consciousness.

The only thing he registers is at some point being lifted into strong arms and suddenly feeling warmth for the first time in what felt like forever.

When he wakes the storm has passed, and he’s lying next to a campfire with several people in light grey and white furs stood around him - he recognises them as wildlings.

A tall man with a ginger beard explains that they found him half dead in the woods, and when he asks why they didn’t just leave him he gestures at the Valyrian steel haninging from his belt.

‘You’ve got a pretty sword, and if your fighting skills are anywhere near as good as your weapon, we could use you beyond the wall’

Jon panics at the thought of going beyond the wall, of the wildlings wanting him to be one of them. He’d heard from the northerners that they were feral, rapists and thieves and murderers.

But when he sees a red headed girl elbow the tall man and whisper ‘his sword isn’t the only thing you thinks pretty’ to he met with a shove and a laugh, he doesn’t see how the people that saved his life could he that bad.

In a fit of impulsivity he decides to go with them. He’s always been too much of a Stark for Kings Landing; despite how much he loved it there the people of Winterfell all see him as a Targaryen; maybe he can find where he belongs beyond the wall?

As they’re setting off on their journey north, they ask Jon his name. He almost tells them, but then thinks better of it, knowing that his family could be known beyond the wall and he doesn’t want his name getting him sent back, or worse killed.

He settles on ‘Jon Snow’, the surname of Northern bastards, and is slightly ashamed of himself to find it feels more like his name than ‘Jon Targaryen’ ever has.

The further North he gets the more he finds he enjoys life with the wildlings- or free folk as they call themselves.

Tormund, as he finds the tall man is called, tells him all about their philosophies, how they’ve chosen their leader unlike the kneelers down south, and they become very close on their journey.

Despite being a King’s son, and in the line of succession, he actually agrees with what they say thinking that if the people of Westeros chose their own leaders, a lot of suffering could easily be avoided.

He didn’t think he’d be this happy with the free folk but he is.

Climbing the wall is a whole different story.

The Wall is the tallest thing he’s ever seen, at least twice the height of the top of the Red Keep, and with no stairs in sight.

The only thing that keeps him going on his ascent is Tormund’s occasional teasing remarks and the knowledge that the only way he’s making it alive is if he follows them up.

The horrendous climb is almost worth the view at the top. He feels like he’s on top of the world and when he turns to share his grin with Tormund, that’s when the wildling kisses him for the first time.

Jon’s so taken aback he nearly topples off the wall, and very may well have fallen to his death if not for Tormund’s strong arms catching him.

The taller man apologises, saying he knows that sort of thing is frowned upon in the south and promising that since Jon clearly doesn’t feel the same he’ll never do it again, etc etc....

While Tormund is rambling in an uncharacteristically nervous way, Jon thinks about the kiss and how much he enjoyed it. He knows that the Southerners wouldn’t approve but he’s not a southerner anymore is he?

Tormund is still talking when Jon shuts him up by kissing him again. They stand there, hands grasping each other tight, lips locked together, and wind whipping at their faces until Ygritte shouts over at them that they better wait until they’ve climbed down the wall before they fuck.

Jon blushes the entire time he’s climbing down the wall, thinking about Tormund’s body pressed against his own, and Ygrittes crude words, and everything that waits for him beyond the wall.

When they finally have their feet on the ground Tormund grabs him again, kissing him hard, and whispering ‘when we get to the camp I’ll kiss you properly Jon Snow’ before walking off with the rest of the group.

Jon’s knees go a little bit weak at the thought of the kisses he’s experienced so far not even being proper kisses, and Ygritte seems to notice this by the way she smacks his ass and shouts laughing ‘Come on Jon Snow, leave your innocence behind that wall!��.

Once they reach the wildling camp, some of his excitement leaves him and is replaced by fear and anticipation at meeting the King Beyond the Wall.

If it wasn’t for Tormund by his side on his way there he might have run the other way at the site of giants or the Thenn as Tormund calls the wildings with scarred faces who look at his as if he’s food.

Meeting Mance Rayder isn’t as scary as he first thought it might be, but what he tells Jon exceeds any sort of terror he’d ever felt before.

He understands why they took him beyond the wall with them- if he had known about the army of the dead marching south he may have suggested they stop to collect more. But he doesn’t truly believe it until a stray wight stumbles into their camp.

Mance tells him that they need to get everyone south of the wall, or the hundreds of thousands of free folk gathered will die, and become part of the dead’s army, who will inevitably then march south, and take all of the seven kingdoms. He says that they’re to begin marching for Castle Black immediately, ready to kill all the brothers of the Nights Watch if they must.

Jon offers him a different solution, knowing the Jon Snow may not be able to help, but Prince Jon of House Targaryen can.

He reveals his identity to Mance, and the other free folk (Tormund is smug to find out that he’s been fucking a Prince the entire time and doesn’t stop mentioning it until Ygritte threatens him with an arrow through the eye if he doesn’t shut up).

Jon, Mance, Tormund, Ygritte and a select few others all head to castle black ahead of the rest of the Free Folk in hopes that when they arrive they’ll be able to walk straight through with no bloodshed.

It’s not a smooth journey unfortunately- Jon sees his first White Walker and feels fear grip him in the way the Wight never did. The look of understanding in the walkers eyes makes him feel colder than any snow storm, or wall of ice ever has.

They tell Jon to run, that without fire or dragonglass they cannot kill the white walker. Jon falls down in his efforts to escape, and in a desperate bid he swings his sword. The walkers body shatters then and there, and Jon feels relief like he never has before.

“Valyrian steel, you’re full of surprises aren’t you little prince” Tormund says, before pulling him into a fierce hug, and planting a desperate kiss on his lips. “Now, never scare me like that again” he says deadly serious and Jon laughs in spite of himself.

At Castle Black however there is no time for laughing. They’re immediately met with drawn swords and notched arrows, until Jon shouts his name and hesitantly the brothers withdraw their weapons.

Lord Commander Mormont says they will have to be kept in the cells until they can get proof of Jon’s identity, which the hastily agree to.

He explains the situation beyond the wall, and Mormont seems to believe him, permitting him to send ravens to his Uncle Ned in Winterfell who can come to identify the supposed Prince.

Days later he’s led out of the cells to the courtyard of Castle Black, still in chains, only to be knocked over by Ghost and shortly after, Arya, who’s no longer the little girl he remembered.

When he gets back to his feet he’s embraced just as aggressively by his Uncle and Robb, who almost shed a tear at the sight of him.

They tell him he was presumed dead after he went missing and Ghost showed up at Winterfell alone. Arya plasters herself to his side even as Mormont is unchaining him, and Ned tells him fondly that she couldn’t be persuaded to stay at Winterfell when there was a chance he was alive.

[His little cousin had supposedly ran away to Braavos once Jon had gone missing, returning a more skilled swordsman than anyone at Winterfell - Jon was proud of her even if both Robb and Ned looked torn apart at the memory of her leaving.]

Mormont and the brothers apologise profusely for keeping him in the cells - “I hope you understand your grace, but we had no way to tell who you were.”

Jon politely asks that his companions be released and at this the men of the watch bristle. They’ve been fighting wildlings their whole lives, they say, they aren’t about to just let a bunch of them free in Castle Black.

He’s angry at their response, but he somewhat understands, and he heads down into the cells to apologise. He presses his forehead against Tormund’s through the bars and touches his hand with his own, promising he won’t be left their for long, he just needs to convince the watch.

He starts with Ned and Robb, telling them all about the wights, begging them to believe him. They trust him, and so vouch for him to Mormont, saying that the wildlings can stay in the lands surrounding Winterfell, and Mormont reluctantly agrees to open the gates for the free folk when they arrive.

Jon tells Ned about the army of the dead, how they need to gather all the living and defeat them. Ned agrees to call his bannermen, and tells him that his father will agree to call all the Houses to march North, but that they will need proof before they do so.

So Jon arranges an expedition beyond the wall, himself (much to Ned’s disapproval), Tormund, Ygritte, and three brothers of the watch, Edd, Pyp, and Grenn. Mance stays at Castle Black awaiting the rest of the Free Folk so that he can lead them south with Ned.

While beyond the wall they manage to capture a lone wight, despite all the tension between the Free Folk and the watch- but it doesn’t come without cost.

Jon, Tormund and Edd return to Castle Black sombrely with the rest of their party gone, and the smell of smoking bodies still on their clothes.

There’s no time to mourn however, as soon as they’re back, Jon, Ned and Tormund (who refuses to leave Jon) head for Kings Landing with a select few northern guards, leaving behind a Night’s Watch who are now convinced of the army of the dead, and all the wildlings now safely south of the wall.

It’s a long journey to King’s Landing, even by boat, and Tormund complains the entire time of the ever increasing heat. Jon thinks his uncle can tell from the fond way he smiles at Tormund, and the gingers hungry gaze what’s happening between them, but he’s gracious enough not to mention it. All he says one night before they retire is a whispered ‘be careful’, a small smile, and a pat on the shoulder.

Jon feels guilty to say he hasn’t missed Kings Landing, not the smell, or the heat, or the millions of people confined in a tiny space.

But when his father clutches him in is arms, shedding tears with no shame, saying how he’d missed him while he was gone- that he had missed.

It’s evident from the lack of reaction (for Rhaegar the tears and shouting had barely scratched the surface of a reaction) that Ned hadn’t told him about the months Jon had been missing, and he tried his best to avoid it.

But when trying to explain why he had gone beyond the wall, there was no way to phrase it without getting his Uncle into trouble.

Jon’s sure that the only thing stopping Rhaegar from hitting Ned is that 1) Ned had spent the entire time out searching and 2) Jon had insisted that his uncle didn’t authorise him to leave.

Then they get onto the important stuff.

They reveal to the King the wight and he immediately responds with ‘how do we stop them’. Jon tells him about their plan, of meeting the dead with an army as large as they can get, and Rhaegar immediately sends the order for all the armies in the seven kingdoms to march north.

He also says he will write to Daenerys, who’s been in Essos since Jon went to Winterfell, liberating Slavers Bay, and becoming a ruler in her own right. She now supposedly commands an army of Unsullied, the Dothraki, and has three dragons.

Rhaegar sends them back up north, saying he’ll wait for Dany and that the armies should be shortly behind him, taking with them all the dragonglass they can find (thankfully his Uncle Viserys had long since found the stores below Dragonstone, where he became Lord as soon as he was of age).

Jon is shocked by how clingy Tormund is with him for the entire trip back, but Tormund tells him that despite the huge army they’re building and the possibility of three dragons, there’s still no certainty they’ll win this war, and he wants to make the most of every last moment with Jon. (If Jon tears up a little at this Tormund never tells anyone.)

He’s stood on the battlements at Winterfell with Sansa, now a woman grown, Arya, Robb, Ned, and of course Tormund, looking out at the armies of free folk, northmen, and the rest of the noble houses who arrived not long ago, when he first sees a dragon - or rather three of them.

They’re huge, magnificent creatures, and Jon can just make out Dany on the back of the largest one, and his father and Viserys on the other two. Out in the distance he can see the thousands of Unsullied marching in perfect formation, and the stomping of thousands of dorthraki close behind.

With them comes Jorah Mormont, who announces himself as Queensguard to Daenerys. When Jon tells him of meeting his father he looks away in shame, telling him he has dishonoured his house, and hopes to make up for it by serving his Queen loyally.

The dragons finally land, and Jon ventures over to reunite with his family and meet the dragons. They’re even more amazing up close, and they don’t seem to mind him, his father, and uncle, but they huddle around Daenerys like young children with their mothers. (It makes sense when she’s announced as Queen Daenerys of the Bay of Dragons, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons).

Jon wants to desperately to hear about how his aunt came to be a queen beyond the narrow sea, but they have more immediate problems.

They hold a war council, with all the great lords, the three eldest Targaryen siblings, all the Stark children but Bran and Rickon, Mance Rayder, Tormund and of course Jon.

They decide upon a preemptive strike- if they can wipe out the dead before they cross the wall and avoid a battle they sure as hell will.

The decision they come to is that Dany and Viserys (riding on Drogon and Viserion) will fly across the wall and destroy as many wights as possible with dragonfire.

Rhaegar tries to insist he go as well, but everyone refuses to allow the King to go with them due to the risk.

They all wait while the two of them fly north, holding their breath for any sign of them.

After what feels like days, there is a lone screech, and a singular flying figure on the horizon.

Dany and Drogon land, and she’s stood looking angry as Jon had ever seen her.

She chokes out that the leader of the White Walkers, who she dubs the Night King, killed Viserion and Viserys with him.

They know now they will have to face them in battle, on their side of the wall, so they immediately begin forging weapons made of dragonglass and fortifying Winterfell.

They receive a message from Last Hearth, clearly written in a rush, reading ‘the dead are here, they are coming’.

They send Dany out as a scout, to estimate how long they have before the dead are upon them. Once she returns, telling them they have days at most they all ready for battle.

#I wrote this like 6 years ago lol #cringing at my old writing #I wanna go back and change so much of this #cos I love the basic idea but the plot holes are killing me #but by the time I do that should I just write a whole ass fic #pls share ur thoughts #jonmund #game of thrones #tormund giantsbane #jon snow

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esther-dot · 11 months ago

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[I posted a list of SEASON 6 AUS before but these are book verse]

the cold inside our bones 2k @xylodemon (just have to point out that this was posted in 2012)

The Wall is no place for a woman, but Jon looks at Sansa's gaunt cheeks and hollow eyes and knows he will not send her away.

we're a different kind of same 3k by @jonsaslove

"I have seen your sister in my fires, fleeing from this marriage they have made for her. A girl in grey on a dying horse, I have seen it plain as day. It has not happened yet, but it will” Or; Sansa flees the Vale. Jon retakes Winterfell. When they meet again, they are changed.

Varg-hamr/Wolf-skin 1k by @cappymightwrite

hamr: the ‘shell’ or ‘shape’ of a person — the physical body, a state that can alter. hugr: what a person really is — the absolute essence, that which can leave the hamr behind. (Or, Jon in the body of Ghost, coming across a girl in grey fleeing north, along the east side of Long Lake...)

Pearls of Water ficlet by fedonciadale

Someone wakes up in Castle Black.

Saw You In The Snow 1k by @theemberalchemist

Sansa used the last of her strength to crawl to the foot of the tree, placing her head on its roots like she would lay on her mother's lap lifetimes ago. She could die here, perhaps, in the halo and ghost of her mother's warmth. Her mind drifting to gentle hands pressing against her head, tucking her hair back, humming a sweet song Sansa knew all the words to.

tale as old as time, song as old as rhyme 1k by @hoaryoldbitch

Satin averts his eyes and all around her bodies shift and uncomfortable looks are exchanged. Something akin to fear grips her and automatically she reaches out. Ghost is right there beside her. She wraps her arms around him and buries her fingers in his fur, kissing the top of his head. A buzzing of whispers and hisses arises around her, but one man bursts into a loud and booming laugh. He's tall and burly with reddish hair and a rusty beard. "Is this the beast you've all been afraid of? The pretty little lady tamed the ferocious wolf with a touch of her hand," he snorts, before walking toward Sansa in long strides. Brienne tenses up beside her. "I'll take ye to Lord Snow, lass."

In the darkest night, a song so sweet 2k

The Lord Commander stood atop the Wall and watched as the girl in grey came riding north, her army at her back.

old timber to new fires 27k by @setnet

When Alayne Stone hears word of the marriage of Arya Stark to the Bastard of the Dreadfort, it prompts her to leave the dubious safety of the Vale and set out on a dangerous journey north to Sansa Stark's homeland and her last remaining relative. But home is not safe. Winterfell is burned and broken, the Baratheon King and the Northern Lords are fighting to influence the future of the realm, the dead are stirring... and the old gods of the North are not half gods, worshipped in wine and flowers; they require blood.

And From the Ruins 15k by @thewolvescalledmehome

After awaking, Jon Snow's sole focus is trying to get his sister back. Alayne Stone is trying to survive the Vale. After an accident, she's forced to flee.

Stay With Me 5k

As her eyes shut, probably forever, Sansa Stark thought of one last thing: Jon. Then everything went pitch black.

now we're dead roses 22k

From Ghost’s eyes, he saw a lone, grey horse racing south. On the back of the courser mounted a girl. He could hear her breaths come out in little hitches and gasps as she grasped with all her might to the reins. Ghost chased after her, sprinting fast and nimble on his feet. She was a delicate little thing. Like a breeze could throw her off the horse. Her back shook as she stifled her sobs. Ghost followed on the horse’s rear, eyes sharp on the hooded figure. She must have sensed him behind her because she turned around and suddenly-- Jon woke up with an impossible name on his tongue.

a wind with a wolf's head 13k, WIP by @branwendaughterofllyr

The cold numbed everything. From her nose, to her fingers, to the breath in her lungs, the cold froze and stiffened. Sansa shoved her cloak up around her face and tucked her free hand under her arm. The grey cloth billowed and faded into the darkening twilight as the wind tore at her. Somewhere, a wolf howled, but Sansa was not sure if it was in her mind or not. A ghost wolf, she told herself and pressed on.

Art: The Girl in Grey and Jon's Resurrection by @palominojacoby, The Girl in Grey by @jonsawilldanceanon, The Girl in Grey by @thetullystark , The Girl in Grey by @ozzy698 , The Girl in Grey by @cute-poison20102014, Jonsa Reunion by knightmarescape, Forehead Kiss by colleendoodle, Jonsa Hug by CristianaLeone, Forehead Kiss by rosenroot

PRE CANON - WESTERN - REGENCY - FAIRYTALE - LITTLE WOMEN - HOLIDAY - SEASON 6 - ANNE OF GREEN GABLES - FREE CITIES - FAIRYTALE PART II - POLITICAL MARRIAGE - SALTY TEENS

#jonsa #jonsa fic #book verse #the girl in grey #dot fic list #I didn’t include Jon/Alayne fics on here because I hope to eventually make a separate list for those

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goodqueenaly · 6 months ago

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Hello again! Sorry I’m trying to figure out how to make this a question, but if you’re willing to, I’d love to hear any thoughts you have about Myranda Royce? I feel like she’s interesting as a counterpoint to the general depiction of the Vale nobility—it struck me that her open association with “Alayne Stone” could be considered unusual by her contemporaries. Do you think it’s genuine, or being gracious (or both)? Thanks and I hope you are well!

I think Myranda is quite an interesting character! (Long, more under the cut)

On the one hand, Myranda certainly wants to encourage Sansa-as-Alayne to see her as a friend. Throughout their conversation, Myranda asks, indeed demands that Sansa-as-Alayne refer to her as “Randa”, an informal nickname which bridges the class distinction between them (more on that in a bit). Myranda’s genial, self-identified “wicked” gossip, punctuated with laughs and jokes, directly recalls Sansa’s last true experience of female friendship, way back in AGOT - sharing a strawberry pie with Jeyne Poole, “giggling and gossiping and sharing secrets”. Too, as they near the Gates of the Moon, Myranda tells Sansa-as-Alayne of the apartments readied for her but offers to share her own bed with Sansa-as-Alayne, much in the manner of Margaery’s bedsharing with her close-knit cousins. Nor is this proffered friendship an entirely empty hope on the part of Myranda. By TWOW, Sansa is internally referring to Myranda as “her friend”, and when Myranda cheerfully dares Sansa to race the gatehouse by declaring “[l]ast one to the gate must marry Uther Shett”, Sansa laughs and joyfully thinks that “[f]or just a little while … [Sansa] found herself remembering bright cold days at Winterfell, when she would race through Winterfell with her friend Jeyne Poole, with Arya running after them trying to keep up”. Myranda does provide Sansa-as-Alayne, at least eventually, some access to friendship and fun Sansa has not experienced in a very long, very traumatic time; finally, after months turning to years of loneliness, abuse, and fear, Sansa has a young aristocratic woman of an age with her, with whom she can be happy - in fact, feeling “alive again, for the first since her father… [sic] since Lord Eddard Stark had died”.

Yet Sansa cannot embrace Myranda Royce as her friend without complication, given the context in which she is introduced to Myranda. Before Sansa and Myranda Royce ever meet, Littlefinger warns Sansa that she, Sansa, must “be careful” and “[g]uard [her] tongue around [Myranda]”, because while Myranda “likes to play the merry fool … underneath she’s shrewder than her father”. That Sansa takes this warning to heart is reflected in Sansa-as-Alayne’s greeting to Myranda, allowing Myranda to call her “Alayne” but internally adding “you’ll get no secrets from me”. Indeed, Myranda’s frank conversation, complete with blunt questions, seems to parallel Olenna Tyrell’s similarly staged interview of Sansa at the start of ASOS; just as the shrewd Queen of Thorns weaponized an attitude of uncourtly candor to make Sansa comfortable enough to admit to Joffrey’s monstrousness, so Myranda seems to want to draw information out of Sansa-as-Alayne, particularly to her true identity, by peppering their chat with candid sexual references and choice bits of gossip. To that end, Myranda does appear to succeed: when Myranda seemingly offhand mentions that “the Night’s Watch has a boy commander, some bastard son of Eddard Stark’s”, Sansa-as-Alayne blurts the name “Jon Snow” - an improbable bit of identification for supposedly the bastard daughter of a minor Vale lord, allegedly living in Gulltown with the Faith until relatively recently. (Whether Myranda then later remarks on Sansa-as-Alayne’s “rosy cheeks and big blue eyes” to make a coy reference to the true Sansa’s Tully appearance, or later still tells Sansa-as-Alayne that “[t]he first Lady Waynwood must have been a mare” as a sly allusion to the Waynwood marriage Catelyn says was made by one of Jocelyn Stark’s Royce daughters, are both open, intriguing possibilities.) In the ongoing theme of truth versus lies so central to Sansa’s storyline, Myranda’s search for knowledge is used by Littlefinger to portray her as an antagonist; falsehood and secrecy, literally defining Sansa for the moment in the guise of “Alayne Stone” must perforce divide Sansa from her would-be friend, at least according to Littlefinger.

Yet Myranda does not simply represent the duality of friendship and animosity for Sansa-as-Alayne. For all her risqué jokes and targeted requests for information, there is I think a good heart to Myranda, most clearly demonstrated in her treatment of Robert Arryn. Before we even meet Myranda on page, Sansa mentally notes that “Robert [would] be pleased” at the news of Myranda’s coming, because “[h]e liked Myranda”, implying not only that Robert has met her before but that Myranda made a good impression in her prior visit(s). While it’s certainly good political sense for any Vale aristocrat to treat the Lord of the Eyrie with respect, Myranda shows Robert genuine warmth and kindness: kneeling to meet him at his level, grandly lying that he had “grown so big” and would “be taller than me soon”, and joining Sansa-as-Alayne in allaying Robert’s fears by agreeing that the Winged Knight could indeed fly “[h]igher than the mountains” - all important actions to take toward a young boy infantalized and dismissed as sickly for virtually his entire eight years of life. Like Sansa, who plays to Robert’s favorite stories of chivalric heroism to encourage his bravery, Myranda offers Robert a rare opportunity for pride in himself in this trek down the mountain. Indeed, Myranda acts exactly as Sansa believes Mya Stone should have - “greet[ing] him with a smile” and “[telling] him how strong and brave he looks” - a positive reflection on both Myranda’s relationship with Robert and her perceptive sense of manners.

Related to this point, Myranda seems to have a keen and natural grasp of her position; this is a young woman who understands how to be lady of a castle to her fingertips. The little Sansa initially knows of Myranda Royce includes the fact that Myranda “kept her father's castle for him”, and that “it was a much livelier court when she was home than when she was away”. Myranda’s courtly experience is on full display in Sansa’s TWOW sample chapter. When the Waynwood party arrives to the Gates of the Moon, Myranda curtsies to Lady Anya, politely ignores Wallace Waynwood’s stammer, adds some sweetly witty commentary on the upcoming feast and tourney, and informs the Waynwoods of their and their party’s lodging with both grace and tact. Too, while she might continue to provide her cutting opinions privately to Sansa-as-Alayne, Myranda also seems to know where to express herself more subtly: calling to Sansa-as-Alayne for a less rude escape from her Lipps and Shett admirers, and quietly teasing Lyn Corbray (whom Myranda already identified as an unlikely suitor) by piously wishing for a healthy delivery for that Corbray sister-in-law whose pregnancy Lyn resents so much.

Which, of course, only highlights the (relative) societal knife edge on which Myranda exists. As the daughter of the head of the lesser branch of her family, Myranda already occupies a place lower than that of other Vale blue-bloods - recall Littlefinger’s note to Sansa that Myranda’s father was in part quite willing to believe Littlefinger precisely because he, Nestor, was “very much aware that he was born of the lesser branch of House Royce”. As “a widow, but scarce used”, to borrow her rueful turn of phrase, Myranda has neither the maidenhood so prized by aristocratic Westerosi nor the dynastic investment of a child with her late husband - and by extension, a socially acceptable role(s) as wife and/or mother. Myranda is, in the cold and unfair calculus of Westerosi aristocratic marriage making, a lesser prize - a fact Myranda herself appears to recognize all too well. As she sighs to Sansa-as-Alayne, Myranda cannot determine “whether it was me she [i.e. Anya Waynwood] found unsuitable [for Harry Hardyng], or just my dowry”; too, as Sansa herself picks up, behind Myranda’s japes of Sansa-as-Alayne’s apparent success in being betrothed to Harry, there is the hurt of a young woman brusquely reminded that she was, at least in the estimation of Lady Waynwood, not good enough for such a match. In the zero sum game of Westerosi matchmaking, Sansa-as-Alayne cannot win (again, only in the sense of a betrothal to a politically very important fiancé) without Myranda losing out on that exact match.

This tension, in turn, I think as much defines Myranda’s relationship with Sansa as the duality of Myranda as both (potential) friend and foe does for Sansa’s relationship with her. Myranda has the name and familial credentials, but not the dowry to make good on them or the aristocratic marriage to show for them; Sansa-as-Alayne is (ostensibly) an unlegitimized bastard of a rather upjumped lord, yet she has the great dowry and (as of the start of TWOW) the brilliant future marriage to the heir presumptive of House Arryn. Consequently, when Myranda first meets Sansa-as-Alayne, it is Myranda who condescends (in the most fundamental meaning of the word) to her: “I am 'my lady' at the Gates”, Myranda reminds Sansa-as-Alayne, “but up here on the mountain you may call me Randa”, a quiet reminder that it is Myranda who can waive the privilege of formal address because she herself is automatically entitled to such a style. It is Myranda who sniffs at the “common girl”, not even dignified with a first name, with whom Harry fathered a child; Myranda who thinly veils the bitterness in her observation that “Harry could have done much worse” than marry her, even if she was, as she reflects, widowed and no longer a maiden; and Myranda who declares that she “shan’t concern [herself]” with Sansa-as-Alayne’s “bastard breasts” when comparing their physical appearances. Likewise, it is Myranda who scathingly asks whether Sansa-as-Alayne “ever knew] a Sisterman who could joust”, as according to Myranda “[t]hey clean their swords with codfish oil and wash in tubs of cold seawater” - proper performance of chivalry being so often equated in Westerosi society with aristocratic bearing. These two young women occupy similar, yet opposed, liminal spaces in their society (as I talked about before specifically with Sansa), operating in an aristocratic sphere that at the same time embraces and rejects them, but for very different reasons.

What I could certainly see is that when (not if) Sansa-as-Alayne is in fact revealed as Sansa Stark in TWOW (ahem, Shadrich), Myranda helps verify Sansa’s true identity (having, again, perhaps puzzled out as much from observing her). More importantly, I hope that Myranda is not in fact an antagonist to Sansa out of some petty sense of jealousy (I had plenty of negative female relationships in F&B, thank you very much), but rather helps undermine Littlefinger’s governing thesis presence in Sansa’s life (before the final denouncement of Littlefinger by Sansa at Winterfell, anyway). For Littlefinger, who values and employs lies and deception as a fundamental aspect of his character, a figure who seeks out truthful information is indeed a disturbing, dangerous individual. Moreover, as a confident and (again, relatively) independently secure aristocratic young woman in her own right, Myranda Royce almost certainly represents to Littlefinger a threat to his isolation of and control over Sansa; just as Cersei separated Sansa from Jeyne Poole in the immediate aftermath of the purge of the Stark household to keep Sansa alone and friendless (remaking with annoyance that “[t]he gods only know what sort of tales she's been filling Sansa's head with” - that is, true stories of the violence and bloodshed of the purge), so I think Littlefinger fears the appearance of a potential friend to Sansa, unconnected to himself, who could begin to influence and encourage her in ways he would not be able to oversee. In perhaps identifying Sansa as a Stark, but then supporting her, Myranda may appear to Sansa as a deliberate rejection of Littlefinger’s description of her as a truth-seeking villain - and, in turn, begin the downfall of Littlefinger himself.

#asoiaf meta #myranda royce

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stargareed · 11 hours ago

Text

Catelyn Actively Interfered with Jon's Life in a Negative Way

The Vault Vol. VIII

I. Intro

Recent posts have claimed that Catelyn, at worst, simply ignored Jon, and that this is fine because she didn't have a duty to mother Jon. While I agree Catelyn had no duty to mother Jon, I disagree that she simply ignored him. Rather, Catelyn unequivocally attempted to hinder Jon’s relationship with his family and societal position. Further, the text implies the only reason Catelyn didn’t do more to impede Jon’s quality of life was because Ned wouldn’t have allowed it.

First, a disclaimer: I think Catelyn is a compelling character who was, overall, a good person. The way she treated Jon was far more an indictment of Westerosi society than her own personal failings. Her wariness of Jon and his future children was relatively rational considering the historic threat bastards have posed to their trueborn siblings and Catelyn’s duty to ensure her own child inherited Winterfell. While Jon never exhibited any disloyal behavior, Catelyn understandably viewed him as a threat to Robb for at least three reasons: (1) Ned loved Jon and was very protective of him; (2) Jon was raised alongside his trueborn siblings; and (3) Jon looked like Ned, unlike any of Catelyn’s sons.

Ned brought his bastard home with him, and called him "son" for all the North to see. . . . She might have overlooked a dozen bastards for Ned's sake, so long as they were out of sight. Jon was never out of sight, and as he grew, he looked more like Ned than any of the trueborn sons she bore him. Somehow that made it worse. (Catelyn II, AGOT (emphasis added))

Aside from any threat Jon posed to Robb’s inheritance, it’s also understandable that Catelyn didn’t like Jon for personal reasons. He was the embodiment of her husband’s infidelity, after all, who was neither out of sight nor out of mind. And Ned seemed to love Jon’s mom. Worse, he refused to even tell Catelyn who Jon’s mother was and got angry when she asked. It had to be difficult when the man Catelyn grew to love refused to share such a big part of his life with her. Indeed, she reflects on this more than once the text:

Eddard Stark had married her in Brandon's place, as custom decreed, but the shadow of his dead brother still lay between them, as did the other, the shadow of the woman he would not name, the woman who had borne him his bastard son. . . . When the wars were over at last, and Catelyn rode to Winterfell, Jon and his wet nurse had already taken up residence. That cut deep. Ned would not speak of the mother, not so much as a word, but a castle has no secrets, and Catelyn heard her maids repeating tales they heard from the lips of her husband's soldiers. . . . The Lady Ashara Dayne, tall and fair, with haunting violet eyes. It had taken her a fortnight to marshal her courage, but finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face. That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. "Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again. Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away. It was the one thing she could never forgive him. She had come to love her husband with all her heart, but she had never found it in her to love Jon. (Catelyn II, AGOT (emphasis added)) Her own children had more Tully about them than Stark. Arya was the only one to show much of Ned in her features. And Jon Snow, but he was never mine. She found herself thinking of Jon's mother, that shadowy secret love her husband would never speak of. Does she grieve for Ned as I do? Or did she hate him for leaving her bed for mine? Does she pray for her son as I have prayed for mine? They were uncomfortable thoughts, and futile. If Jon had been born of Ashara Dayne of Starfall, as some whispered, the lady was long dead; if not, Catelyn had no clue who or where his mother might be. And it made no matter. Ned was gone now, and his loves and his secrets had all died with him. (Catelyn VI, ACOK (emphasis added))

Moreover, Westerosi norms likely exacerbated Catelyn’s hurt feelings because they limited her options in dealing with such a slight. She had no say over whether Jon lived in Winterfell, at least while Ned resided there. She couldn’t just divorce Ned. What’s more, she had every incentive to learn to love Ned for the sake of her children. But while societal norms encouraged her to forgive her husband’s infidelity, they did not force her to mother Jon. So, she didn’t.

Ideally, Catelyn would not have blamed Jon for Ned’s actions. But let’s be real, only an extraordinary person would be able to completely separate the negative emotions caused by their spouse’s betrayal from how they perceived the very product of that betrayal. And while Catelyn was extraordinary in some things, such as her devotion to her children, she wasn’t extraordinary in her treatment of Jon. And that’s ok. It doesn’t make her a bad person.

That said, it’s also disingenuous to pretend Catelyn didn’t mistreat Jon, even if her actions were understandable. In 2005, GRRM stated that Catelyn and Sansa were the two POV characters readers disliked most. This is likely because of their contentious relationships with sympathetic protagonists Jon and Arya, respectively. If Catelyn’s mistreatment of Jon was truly limited to neglect, it’s doubtful readers would have such a negative view of Catelyn. Regardless, the text provides multiple examples of Catelyn affirmatively interfering in Jon’s life.

One final clarification before we begin. I'm aware that in 1999, when asked about Catelyn's "mistreatment" of Jon, GRRM responded that while Catelyn "distance[d]" herself from Jon, she did not "verbally abuse and attack him," and that the instance in Bran's bedroom was a "very special case." However, while an author's account of the facts must be accepted as gospel (e.g. Catelyn did this to Jon, she didn't do that), an author's legal conclusion about what those facts constitute is not entitled to the same deference (e.g. Catelyn did A, B, and C to Jon, and this does/does not constitute "abuse"). To be sure, GRRM's statement that Catelyn didn't regularly abuse Jon is certainly relevant. However, it's not dispositive because, let's be real, a baby boomer speaking in the 1990s is likely going to have a different definition of abuse than a millennial would in the 2020s. As a result, I'm not going to focus on whether Catelyn "abused" Jon because many of us have different definitions of abuse. Rather, I'm simply going to try to discuss a few express and implied facts that show Catelyn did far more than simply ignore Jon.

II. Catelyn fought hard to banish Jon from Winterfell, even after Jon grew close to his siblings.

Catelyn had tried to send Jon away from his family multiple times before the events in the first book, to no avail.

Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away. It was the one thing she could never forgive him. (Catelyn II, AGOT (emphasis added))

Then, once Catelyn convinced Ned to become King Robert’s Hand, she again demanded that 14-year-old Jon leave Winterfell. This time she was successful, in part because of Jon’s desire to take the Black.

Jon must go," she said now. "He and Robb are close," Ned said. "I had hoped …" "He cannot stay here," Catelyn said, cutting him off. "He is your son, not mine. I will not have him." It was hard, she knew, but no less the truth. Ned would do the boy no kindness by leaving him here at Winterfell. The look Ned gave her was anguished. "You know I cannot take him south. There will be no place for him at court. A boy with a bastard's name … you know what they will say of him. He will be shunned." Catelyn armored her heart against the mute appeal in her husband's eyes. "They say your friend Robert has fathered a dozen bastards himself." "And none of them has ever been seen at court!" Ned blazed. “The Lannister woman has seen to that. How can you be so damnably cruel, Catelyn? He is only a boy. He—" His fury was on him. He might have said more, and worse, but Maester Luwin cut in. "Another solution presents itself," he said, his voice quiet. "Your brother Benjen came to me about Jon a few days ago. It seems the boy aspires to take the black." Ned looked shocked. "He asked to join the Night's Watch?" Catelyn said nothing. Let Ned work it out in his own mind; her voice would not be welcome now. Yet gladly would she have kissed the maester just then. His was the perfect solution. Benjen Stark was a Sworn Brother. Jon would be a son to him, the child he would never have. And in time the boy would take the oath as well. He would father no sons who might someday contest with Catelyn's own grandchildren for Winterfell. (Catelyn II, AGOT (emphasis added))

(As an aside, I’ve always loved that Ned referred to Jon not as a “bastard,” but as a “boy with a bastard’s name.”)

III. Catelyn also played a role in Jon ultimately choosing to take the black because she made sure Jon knew he would never be part of the Stark family or welcome in Winterfell.

While it was Jon’s choice to join the Night’s Watch initially, he quickly became disillusioned when he realized it was filled with criminals who lacked honor. But while he desired to go back to Winterfell, he knew he had no place there because of Catelyn. So, he swore his life away.

Once he swore his vow, the Wall would be his home until he was old as Maester Aemon. "I have not sworn yet," he muttered. He was no outlaw, bound to take the black or pay the penalty for his crimes. He had come here freely, and he might leave freely … until he said the words. He need only ride on, and he could leave it all behind. By the time the moon was full again, he would be back in Winterfell with his brothers. Your half brothers, a voice inside reminded him. And Lady Stark, who will not welcome you. There was no place for him in Winterfell, no place in King's Landing either. Even his own mother had not had a place for him. The thought of her made him sad. He wondered who she had been, what she had looked like, why his father had left her. Because she was a whore or an adulteress, fool. Something dark and dishonorable, or else why was Lord Eddard too ashamed to speak of her? (Jon V, AGOT (emphasis added))

We also see, through Jon’s eyes, the extent to which Catelyn made him feel alienated from his Stark family.

"We're not friends," Jon said. He put a hand on Sam's broad shoulder. "We're brothers." And so they were, he thought to himself after Sam had taken his leave. Robb and Bran and Rickon were his father's sons, and he loved them still, yet Jon knew that he had never truly been one of them. Catelyn Stark had seen to that. The grey walls of Winterfell might still haunt his dreams, but Castle Black was his life now, and his brothers were Sam and Grenn and Halder and Pyp and the other cast-outs who wore the black of the Night's Watch. (Jon IV, AGOT (emphasis added)) "Your sister," Iron Emmett said, "how old is …" By now she'd be eleven, Jon thought. Still a child. "I have no sister. Only brothers. Only you." Lady Catelyn would have rejoiced to hear those words, he knew. That did not make them easier to say. His fingers closed around the parchment. Would that they could crush Ramsay Bolton's throat as easily. (Jon VI, ADWD (emphasis added))

Fortunately for Jon, it seems Catelyn’s disdain for him was only adopted by Sansa, at least among his siblings:

He missed his true brothers: little Rickon, bright eyes shining as he begged for a sweet; Robb, his rival and best friend and constant companion; Bran, stubborn and curious, always wanting to follow and join in whatever Jon and Robb were doing. He missed the girls too, even Sansa, who never called him anything but "my half brother" since she was old enough to understand what bastard meant. And Arya … he missed her even more than Robb, skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes, so fierce and willful. Arya never seemed to fit, no more than he had … yet she could always make Jon smile. He would give anything to be with her now, to muss up her hair once more and watch her make a face, to hear her finish a sentence with him. (Jon III, AGOT (emphasis added))

Though, of course, Catelyn made her contempt for Jon known outside the Stark family.

"I will permit you to take the black. Ned Stark's bastard is the Lord Commander on the Wall." The Blackfish narrowed his eyes. "Did your father arrange for that as well? Catelyn never trusted the boy, as I recall, no more than she ever trusted Theon Greyjoy. It would seem she was right about them both. No, ser, I think not. I'll die warm, if you please, with a sword in hand running red with lion blood." (Jaime VI, AFFC (emphasis added))

This fact even made Jon hesitate to ask the Vale for food for the Night’s Watch.

We could, thought Jon, if we had the gold, and someone willing to sell us food. Both of those were lacking. Our best hope may be the Eyrie. The Vale of Arryn was famously fertile and had gone untouched during the fighting. Jon wondered how Lady Catelyn's sister would feel about feeding Ned Stark's bastard. As a boy, he often felt as if the lady grudged him every bite. (Jon IV, ADWD (emphasis added))

IV. Catelyn mistreated Jon while he lived in Winterfell, to the point where he felt uncomfortable even being in the same room with her if Ned wasn't there.

There have been some great write ups about how, while GRRM said Catelyn’s horrible treatment of Jon when Bran was comatose--i.e. “It should have been you”--was a “special case,” the scene also revealed Catelyn had a history of mistreating Jon. For example, Jon was afraid to visit his own comatose brother merely because Catelyn was in the same room.

He reached the landing and stood for a long moment, afraid. Ghost nuzzled at his hand. He took courage from that. He straightened and entered the room. Lady Stark was there beside his bed. She had been there, day and night, for close on a fortnight. Not for a moment had she left Bran’s side. She had her meals brought to her there, and chamber pots as well, and a small hard bed to sleep on, though it was said she had scarcely slept at all. She fed him herself, the honey and water and herb mixture that sustained life. Not once did she leave the room. So Jon had stayed away. But now there was no more time. He stood in the door for a moment, afraid to speak, afraid to come closer. The window was open. Below, a wolf howled. Ghost heard and lifted his head. Lady Stark looked over. For a moment she did not seem to recognize him. Finally she blinked. “What are you doing here?” she asked in a voice strangely flat and emotionless. (Jon II, AGOT (emphasis added))

Jon’s fears proved well founded as Catelyn immediately attempted to prevent him from seeing his own dying brother.

“I came to see Bran,” Jon said. “To say good-bye.” Her face did not change. Her long auburn hair was dull and tangled. She looked as thought she had aged twenty years. “You’ve said it. Now go away.” Part of him wanted only to flee, but he knew that if he did he might never see Bran again. He took a nervous step into the room. “Please,” he said. Something cold moved in her eyes. “I told you to leave,” she said. “We don’t want you here.” (Jon II, AGOT (emphasis added))

Notice how Catelyn said “we” don’t want you here, not “I” don’t want you here. She attempted to manipulate Jon into thinking Bran would also not want him there, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Soon, it’s revealed this isn’t the first time Catelyn tried to kick Jon out of a room to prevent him from seeing his family.

Something cold moved in her eyes. “I told you to leave,” she said. “We don’t want you here.” Once that would have sent him running. Once that might even have made him cry. Now it only made him angry. He would be a Sworn Brother of the Night’s Watch soon, and face worse dangers than Catelyn Tully Stark. “He’s my brother,” he said. “Shall I call the guards?” “Call them,” Jon said, defiant. “You can’t stop me from seeing him.” He crossed the room, keeping the bed between them, and looked down on Bran where he lay. (Jon II, AGOT (emphasis added))

Notice also the power she wielded over Jon as Lady of Winterfell, threatening to call the guards on him.

Jon then gave a heartwarming talk to Bran, apologizing that he didn’t come earlier because he was afraid.

“Bran,” he said, “I’m sorry I didn’t come before. I was afraid.” He could feel the tears rolling down his cheeks. Jon no longer cared. “Don’t die, Bran. Please. We’re all waiting for you to wake up. Me and Robb and the girls, everyone . . . “ Lady Stark was watching. She had not raised a cry. Jon took that for acceptance. Outside the window, the direwolf howled again. The wolf that Bran had not had time to name. “I have to go now,” Jon said. “Uncle Benjen is waiting. I’m to go north to the Wall. We have to leave today, before the snows come.” He remembered how excited Bran had been at the prospect of the journey. It was more than he could bear, the thought of leaving him behind like this. Jon brushed away his tears, leaned over, and kissed his brother lightly on the lips. (Jon II, AGOT (emphasis added))

And then a curious thing happened. Catelyn, grief stricken, confessed to Jon that she felt partially responsible for Bran’s condition. And Jon consoled her! (As an aside, GRRM really knows how to write a sympathetic protagonist, starting with the very first chapter when Jon excluded himself from the Stark family so his siblings could get direwolves, and even later in this chapter when Jon lied to Robb and said Catelyn was kind to him because he knew Robb had enough to deal with.)

“I wanted him to stay here with me,” Lady Stark said softly. Jon watched her, wary. She was not even looking at him. She was talking to him, but for a part of her, it was as though he were not even in the room. “I prayed for it,” she said dully. “He was my special boy. I went to the sept and prayed seven times to the seven faces of god that Ned would change his mind and leave him here with me. Sometimes prayers are answered.” Jon did not know what to say. “It wasn’t your fault,” he managed after an awkward silence. (Jon II, AGOT (emphasis added))

And how was Jon rewarded for trying to comfort Lady Stark?

Her eyes found him. They were full of poison. “I need none of your absolution, bastard.” Jon lowered his eyes. She was cradling one of Bran’s hands. He took the other, squeezed it. Fingers like the bones of birds. “Good-bye,” he said. (Jon II, AGOT (emphasis added))

Now, notice how Jon didn’t think twice when Catelyn called him a “bastard.” This was likely because she’d called him that before. This is important for the next part.

He was at the door when she called out to him. “Jon,” she said. He should have kept going, but she had never called him by his name before. He turned to find her looking at his face, as if she were seeing hit for the first time. “Yes?” he said. “It should have been you,” she told him. Then she turned back to Bran and began to weep, her whole body shaking with sobs. Jon had never seen her cry before. (Jon II, AGOT (emphasis added))

So, in 14 years, Lady Stark had never once called Jon by his name. Notice it doesn’t say she never once called him a name. Indeed, she had just called him “bastard” and he didn’t think anything of it. So she called him names, like “bastard,” just never “Jon.” That’s pretty messed up. No one should have to face that level of contempt from an authority figure in their own home. No wonder Jon avoided her like the plague.

In sum, even if Cat telling Jon “It should have been you” was a one-time thing, it’s clear she had a history of mistreating him, such as (1) calling him “bastard” but never once calling him by his name; (2) kicking him out of rooms; and (3) making him so uncomfortable that he avoided spending time with his family if she was in the same room (unless Ned was there, of course).

Now, for those who say Jon may be an unreliable narrator, the next paragraphs show this wasn’t the case because others were very much aware of how Cat mistreated Jon.

"You Starks are hard to kill," Jon agreed. His voice was flat and tired. The visit had taken all the strength from him. Robb knew something was wrong. “My mother . . . " “She was . . . very kind,” Jon told him. Robb look relieved. “Good.” He smiled. (Jon II, AGOT (emphasis added))

Robb was worried about how his mother treated Jon while Jon was seeing his comatose brother for possibly the last time. When Jon lied and said she treated him kindly (I love Jon!), Robb was “relieved.” This shows Jon wasn’t just making stuff up, and others were aware of Catelyn’s mistreatment of Jon.

Robb’s interesting because, as supportive as he was of Jon, he unwittingly played a role in what was likely the one of the first times Jon realized he was a bastard, courtesy of Lady Stark, of course.

Every morning they had trained together, since they were big enough to walk; Snow and Stark, spinning and slashing about the wards of Winterfell, shouting and laughing, sometimes crying when there was no one else to see. They were not little boys when they fought, but knights and mighty heroes. "I'm Prince Aemon the Dragonknight," Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, "Well, I'm Florian the Fool." Or Robb would say, "I'm the Young Dragon," and Jon would reply, "I'm Ser Ryam Redwyne." That morning he called it first. "I'm Lord of Winterfell!" he cried, as he had a hundred times before. Only this time, this time, Robb had answered, "You can't be Lord of Winterfell, you're bastard-born. My lady mother says you can't ever be the Lord of Winterfell." I thought I had forgotten that. Jon could taste blood in his mouth, from the blow he'd taken. (Jon XII, ASOS (emphasis added))

And soon after that repressed memory resurfaced, Jon thinks again about what Catelyn would do to make him feel unwanted and uncomfortable.

It was not Lord Eddard's face he saw floating before him, though; it was Lady Catelyn's. With her deep blue eyes and hard cold mouth, she looked a bit like Stannis. Iron, he thought, but brittle. She was looking at him the way she used to look at him at Winterfell, whenever he had bested Robb at swords or sums or most anything. Who are you? that look had always seemed to say. This is not your place. Why are you here? (Jon XII, ASOS (emphasis added))

V. Catelyn sought to prevent Jon from succeeding Robb, even in a scenario where Jon couldn't possibly threaten Catelyn's children or grandchildren.

Catelyn, like much of Westeros, was deeply prejudiced against bastards.

"Mya Stone, if it please you, my lady," the girl said. It did not please her; it was an effort for Catelyn to keep the smile on her face. Stone was a bastard's name in the Vale, as Snow was in the north, and Flowers in Highgarden; in each of the Seven Kingdoms, custom had fashioned a surname for children born with no names of their own. Catelyn had nothing against this girl, but suddenly she could not help but think of Ned's bastard on the Wall, and the thought made her angry and guilty, both at once. She struggled to find words for a reply. (Catelyn VI, AGOT (emphasis added))

(As an aside, it’s interesting that Cat seemed to feel some guilt regarding Jon. I wish GRRM had fleshed that out a bit more like the show did. It also makes me yearn for a Lady Stoneheart-Jon reunion.)

Catelyn also did not like Jon. So when Robb was trying to discuss who should be his heir--with Bran, Rickon, and Arya presumed dead, and Sansa married to a Lannister--Catelyn did not want to consider Jon, advocating instead for distant Vale relatives.

“Young, and a king,” he said. “A king must have an heir. If I should die in my next battle, the kingdom must not die with me. By law Sansa is next in line of succession, so Winterfell and the north would pass to her.” His mouth tightened. “To her, and her lord husband. Tyrion Lannister. I cannot allow that. I will not allow that. That dwarf must never have the north.” “No,” Catelyn agreed. “You must name another heir, until such time as Jeyne gives you a son.” She considered for a moment. “Your father’s father had no siblings, but his father had a sister who married a younger son of Lord Raymar Royce, of the junior branch. They had three daughters, all of whom wed Vale lordlings. A Waynwood and a Corbray, for certain. The youngest . . . it might have been a Templeton, but . . . " “Mother.” There was a sharpness in Robb’s tone. “You forget. My father had four sons.” She had not forgotten, she had not wanted to look at it, yet there it was. “A Snow is not a Stark.” (Catelyn V, ASOS (emphasis added))

Ok, first, I love the way Robb reaffirmed Jon’s humanity to his mother, reminding her that Ned Stark had four sons. (Go Robb!) It was always Jon’s goal to live his life so that people would say Ned Stark had four sons, not three. See Jon IX, AGOT (“He was no true Stark, had never been one … but he could die like one. Let them say that Eddard Stark had fathered four sons, not three.”)

Second, it’s important to note that Catelyn explicitly said she did not want to “look at” Jon. Not that she considered him but worried his vows or bastardy precluded him from being heir, but that she did not want to even look at him. This shows Catelyn’s gut feeling was to not even consider Jon, and only when she was forced to did she develop her post hoc arguments regarding Jon’s vows and bastardy.

Third, while Cat initially framed the discussion as deciding who Robb’s heir should be until Jeyne provided Robb a son, later the discussion was broadened to include who should succeed Robb if he died without issue. And even then Catelyn argued that an unknown Vale lordling should inherit over Jon. This is an important distinction because Cat’s arguments regarding the threat posed by legitimizing Jon--namely that Jon and his sons would threaten Robb’s sons--do not apply to a scenario where Robb dies without issue. And Robb’s Will could easily be written to only legitimize Jon should Robb die without children. So, clearly the issue wasn’t limited to Catelyn’s fear for her children and grandchildren. It also included pure pettiness on Catelyn’s part.

Catelyn first attempted to dissuade Robb by reminding him of Jon’s Night’s Watch vows. Then, when that didn’t work, she pivoted to the threat posed by legitimizing Jon.

“Jon’s more a Stark than some lordlings from the Vale who have never so much as set eyes on Winterfell.” “Jon is a brother of the Night’s Watch, sworn to take no wife and hold no lands. Those who take the black serve for life.” “So do the knights of the Kingsguard. That did not stop the Lannisters from stripping the white cloaks from Ser Barristan Selmy and Ser Boros Blount when they had no more use for them. If I send the Watch a hundred men in Jon’s place, I’ll wager they find some way to release him from his vows.” He is set on this. Catelyn knew how stubborn her son could be. “A bastard cannot inherit.” “Not unless he’s legitimized by a royal decree,” said Robb. “There is more precedent for that than for releasing a Sworn Brother from his oath.” “Precedent,” she said bitterly. “Yes, Aegon the Fourth legitimized all his bastards on his deathbed. And how much pain, grief, war, and murder grew from that? I know you trust Jon. But can you trust his sons? Or their sons? The Blackfyre pretenders troubled the Targaryens for five generations, until Barristan the Bold slew the last of them on the Stepstones. If you make Jon legitimate, there is no way to turn him bastard again. Should he wed and breed, any sons you may have by Jeyne will never be safe.” (Catelyn V, ASOS (emphasis added))

I love seeing lawyer Robb advocate on his brother’s behalf. But gods, Catelyn’s contempt for Jon couldn’t be more obvious when she referred to him having kids as “breed[ing].” It reminds me of how Robert Baratheon used that term when referring to Daenerys because of his hatred for Targaryens.

I love this next part because, not only does Robb defend Jon, so does Grey Wind! Don’t mess with the pack!

“Jon would never harm a son of mine.” “No more than Theon Greyjoy would harm Bran or Rickon?” Grey Wind leapt up atop King Tristifer’s crypt, his teeth barred. Robb’s own face was cold. “That is as cruel as it is unfair. Jon is no Theon.” (Catelyn V, ASOS (emphasis added))

Then it concludes with Catelyn stating she’d even oppose Jon if Robb died without issue.

“So you pray. Have you considered your sisters? What of their rights? I agree that the north may not be permitted to pass to the Imp, but what of Arya? By law she comes after Sansa . . . your own sister, trueborn.” “. . . and dead. No one has seen or heard of Arya since they cut Father’s head off. Why do you lie to yourself? Arya’s gone, the same as Bran and Rickon, and they’ll kill Sansa too once the dwarf gets a child from her. Jon is the only brother than remains to me. Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as King in the North. I had hoped you would support my choice.” “I cannot,” she said. “In all else, Robb. In everything. But not in this . . . . this folly. Do not ask it.” “I don’t have to. I’m the king.” Robb turned and walked off, Grey Wind bounding down from the tomb after him. (Catelyn V, ASOS (emphasis added))

VI. Catelyn likely would've treated Jon worse if Ned wasn't so fiercely protective of Jon.

To Catelyn’s credit, she could’ve treated Jon far worse. We see this with Falia Flowers, who was forced to serve her trueborn siblings. And then, of course, there’s Cersei:

"I glimpsed him once at Winterfell," the queen said, "though the Starks did their best to hide him. He looks very like his father." Her husband's by-blows had his look as well, though at least Robert had the grace to keep them out of sight. Once, after that sorry business with the cat, he had made some noises about bringing some baseborn daughter of his to court. "Do as you please," she'd told him, "but you may find that the city is not a healthy place for a growing girl." The bruise those words had won her had been hard to hide from Jaime, but they heard no more about the bastard girl. Catelyn Tully was a mouse, or she would have smothered this Jon Snow in his cradle. Instead, she's left the filthy task to me. "Snow shares Lord Eddard's taste for treason too," she said. "The father would have handed the realm to Stannis. The son has given him lands and castles." (Cersei IV, AFFC (emphasis added))

While I know Cat would never physically harm Jon, it’s interesting to consider how much of Catelyn’s restraint was due to Ned’s protectiveness of Jon, as opposed to her own scruples. After all, the text mentions multiple times how defensive Ned was of Jon:

The look Ned gave her was anguished. "You know I cannot take him south. There will be no place for him at court. A boy with a bastard's name … you know what they will say of him. He will be shunned." Catelyn armored her heart against the mute appeal in her husband's eyes. "They say your friend Robert has fathered a dozen bastards himself." "And none of them has ever been seen at court!" Ned blazed. “The Lannister woman has seen to that. How can you be so damnably cruel, Catelyn? He is only a boy. He—" His fury was on him. He might have said more, and worse, but Maester Luwin cut in. (Catelyn II, AGOT (emphasis added)) Still, she was struck again by how strangely men behaved when it came to their bastards. Ned had always been fiercely protective of Jon, and Ser Cortnay Penrose had given up his life for this Edric Storm, yet Roose Bolton's bastard had meant less to him than one of his dogs, to judge from the tone of the queer cold letter Edmure had gotten from him not three days past. (Catelyn VI, ACOK (emphasis added))

We also know Ned desired for Jon to have a close relationship with Ned’s children:

… but then somehow he was back at Winterfell again, in the godswood looking down upon his father. Lord Eddard seemed much younger this time. His hair was brown, with no hint of grey in it, his head bowed. "… let them grow up close as brothers, with only love between them," he prayed, "and let my lady wife find it in her heart to forgive …" (Bran III, ADWD (emphasis added))

But once that protection waned with Ned’s appointment as Hand and relocation to King’s Landing, Catelyn was able to convince Ned to allow Jon to take the black.

"He cannot stay here," Catelyn said, cutting him off. "He is your son, not mine. I will not have him." It was hard, she knew, but no less the truth. Ned would do the boy no kindness by leaving him here at Winterfell. (Catelyn II, AGOT)

Notably, while Catelyn was demanding Jon be evicted from Winterfell, it was actually Ned’s decision. This is evident from the fact he had denied her prior requests for Jon to leave Winterfell. Indeed, Ned even controlled where Cat’s own children went, insisting that Bran accompany him south over Cat’s strenuous objections.

So what made this request different? The answer is simple: Ned could insist that Jon remain at Winterfell, but without Ned’s protection, Catelyn would be free to make Jon’s life . . . difficult. Catelyn’s inner dialogue hints at this.

Ned would do the boy no kindness by leaving him here at Winterfell. (Catelyn II, AGOT)

Compare this to what Cersei told Robert about Mya Stone coming to court:

“[Y]ou may find that the city is not a healthy place for a growing girl." (Cersei IV, AFFC)

This begs the question: If Ned had insisted Jon stay at Winterfell in Ned’s absence, would Cat’s treatment of Jon change without Ned to keep her in check? To what lengths would Cat go to “differentiate” Jon from his trueborn siblings? While I think Robb would be old enough to curb Cat’s worst impulses, and Cat would also have to account for Maester Luwin “tattling” on her via raven to Ned if she got too bad, I’ve no doubt that Cat would, at the very least, be emboldened in her mistreatment of Jon.

VII. Catelyn's disdain for Jon likely hurt her in the end.

One of the first thoughts many people have after learning about R+L=J is: “Why didn’t Ned just tell Cat the truth?” It surely would’ve saved a lot of heartache. But I think Ned gave us his reasoning:

Ned thought, If it came to that, the life of some child I did not know, against Robb and Sansa and Arya and Bran and Rickon, what would I do? Even more so, what would Catelyn do, if it were Jon's life, against the children of her body? He did not know. He prayed he never would. (Eddard XII, AGOT (emphasis added))

In other words, if Cat knew Jon was a secret Targaryen, and she thought her family might be in danger because, perhaps, someone in King’s Landing suspected the truth, she likely would have no qualms about sacrificing Jon in a heartbeat to prove her loyalty to the Baratheon regime. After all, she never made any promises to any dying siblings to protect Jon.

Further, that Catelyn treated Jon so poorly likely played a role in Ned’s refusal to tell her the truth which, in the end, only hurt her because she died thinking Jon was the product of her husband’s infidelity, as opposed to Lyanna’s son.

Another way her mistreatment of Jon hurt her was in Robb’s decision to marry Jeyne Westerling. While Ned’s honor no doubt played a role, there’s a good chance Robb also married Jeyne to prevent any potential child he had with her from growing up a bastard because he had seen the way Jon was treated, including by his own mother. And, of course, Robb’s marriage to Jeyne directly led to Robb and Catelyn’s own deaths.

#asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #jon snow #catelyn stark

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jackoshadows · 2 years ago

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How is Jon Snow ‘idealistic’?

He’s one of the most pragmatic Starks in the books, which is something considering he is only 14/15 when the story starts. There’s a reason Maester Luwin tells Jon that ‘bastards grow up faster than other children’.

It’s Jon Snow who stays up at night worrying over his future and not any of the responsible adults, because he knows the realities of being a bastard. It’s Jon who makes the hard decision to go to the Wall because he has no place at Winterfell, not Ned or Benjen. Ned refuses to deal with this until Catelyn forces his hand.

It’s Jon who explains the unfair rules to Arya about the difference between Robb and Bran practicing in the courtyard with the prince while Jon sits it out. It’s Jon who reassures Arya when she goes to him afraid that she too is a bastard. It’s Jon who leaves his name out so that the other Stark kids can get a direwolf.

Yes, Jon does not know how much the Night’s Watch has fallen as an institution in terms of it’s members now being outlaws, rapists and murderers. That’s because no one tells him the truth and not because he believes in songs and fairy tales. Benjen only tells him that it’s a hard, tough life with life long celibacy and not about it’s current status as a penal colony.

That’s why Jon ends up appreciating Tyrion Lannister as a friend, because Tyrion is the only person who does tell Jon the truth. That’s why Jon is hurt, that his own father send him to the Wall without telling him what the Wall has now become and then giving him a choice.

[Note: In fairness to Ned and Benjen, they both probably still think it a great honor to be a brother of the Night’s Watch. Like all the Starks before them they hold the Night’s Watch up as this important historical institution that has to be honored and then fail to actually support it in terms of funding and manpower]

Jon not recognizing that his fellow peers don’t have his education at the start of AGoT? That’s not idealism. That’s him not recognizing his privilege. At Winterfell he’s the bastard compared to his Stark siblings, always judged as less than them by nature of his birth. It’s only once he gets to the Wall that he realizes, with Donal Noye’s help, he has had it better than the other new recruits.

Jon wanting to be a ranger? That’s ambition, that’s self-confidence. Notice how after Sam Tarly explains that being a steward intern meant being groomed for leadership, Jon is immediately accepting of the decision.

Jon being angry and bitter at the unfairness of his world is not idealistic. Being angry about inequality and only being able to imagine a fairer world in dreams is the opposite of idealistic.

Jon’s not trying to end world hunger or trying to legitimize all bastards or set about righting all the wrongs of Westeros. He’s trying to do the best he can at world’s end on a little patch of land called the Night’s Watch for his fellow crows and freefolk there.

When Jon sends out the paper shields to the Crown in KL, he is angry and cynical and knows they will not send him any help. He is cynical about goodness and integrity which is clear from his interactions with his deputies at the Wall.

If anything, Jon Snow is ruthlessly pragmatic. Whether it’s taking child hostages, or telling the Freefolk that they will only get more food if they work for it or hiring spearwives to defend an entire castle or taking on Satin as his steward because he is good at it or using Wun Wun to rebuild or doing actual science experiments, all his decisions are immensely practical - which is why 99% of his policies keeps clashing with the outdated dogma of the likes of Bowen Marsh and Septon Cellador.

‘You Know Nothing’ is a play on Socrates ‘I know that I know nothing’, an acknowledgement that he has yet to learn a lot despite being Lord Commander. The people he holds in high esteem are the likes of Donal Noye, Maester Aemon, Qhorin Halfhand and Samwell Tarly.

It is true that all the Stark children growing up in the relative safety and comfort of home and family have lofty ideals as children. That’s the innocence of children. And then they grow up. This quote encapsulates that:

When Jon had been a boy at Winterfell, his hero had been the Young Dragon, the boy king who had conquered Dorne at the age of fourteen. Despite his bastard birth, or perhaps because of it, Jon Snow had dreamed of leading men to glory just as King Daeron had, of growing up to be a conqueror. Now he was a man grown and the Wall was his, yet all he had were doubts. He could not even seem to conquer those. - Jon, ADwD

Jon Snow is keenly aware of how hard his job is in terms of actually being able to help people. Idealistic is not a word I would use to describe him.

#Jon Snow #asoiaf

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asa-do-your-thing · 6 months ago

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Dreams - 1 - Jon

18+ MINORS DNI Jon Snow x F!OC / Robb Stark x F!OC Word Count: 3.3k Masterlist with Fic Warnings - Contains Death, SA and Abuse. Dividers by @cafekitsune

It had always been relatively crowded in Winterfell when it came to the Stark family, Jon noted. At first it was Lord Eddard, Lady Stark, and Robb, followed by him, Theon Greyjoy, Sansa, Bran, Arya, Rickon… and Lucie.

They had been a rag-tag band of kids, playing, hitting, and chasing each other. Theon had gladly joined their games, yet he, along with Sansa quickly realised that Jon was not a Stark - he was a half-brother at best and a Bastard at worst.

Lucie had never really been a part of the group seeing as she was the last person to join them, yet she was always there to prevent things from getting out of hand. Everyone had given Jon respect when she was present. She was a key player in maintaining an atmosphere of harmony in Winterfell’s spacious halls.

Looking up at her from his distant seat at dinner, Jon thought back to the day where she had joined them. Lord Eddard had told them a few weeks before that they were going to have a new ward; her family had sadly passed away and he graciously allowed her to be taken in with them until she came of age, which was just around the corner.

Lady Lucie Templeton of Ninestars, a distinguished Lady of the Vale. A title befitting her remarkable poise and presence. Jon had envisioned her as resembling an older iteration of Sansa: statuesque, elegant, and, above all, exuding an air of haughtiness and subtle aloofness towards him.

He knew he would forever remember her arrival; gallantly riding into Winterfell astride her untamed black stallion. As her lengthy black locks billowed behind her in the wind, she fearlessly surged through the gates on her steed. Dismounting with the finesse of a seasoned warrior, she strode confidently in his direction. All those present, Jon included, involuntarily retreated to afford her space, captivated by her awe-inspiring presence.

Noticing his stare, she quickly glanced over at him and caught his eye before turning away and exchanging greetings with Lord and Lady Stark. He was struck dumb by how commanding yet beautiful she was in that moment—her dark black eyes glowing with life despite the dire situation she had come from. Using his newfound courage — because only a fool wouldn’t be afraid in her presence — he managed to stammer out a few words of greeting which she returned warmly before moving on to meet the rest of the family.

It hadn’t taken too long for Jon to recognize that Lucie was not like anyone else he had ever met; even the Starks seemed impressed by her strength and poise (though they masked it well). But despite being adopted into this strange new world, Lucie still held onto an air of confidence and self-assurance that made even Jon feel small next to her.

He watched her with a critical eye, noting the way Robb and Theon stared at her with rapt attention, despite her meek and unassuming attempt at conversation. Instead of commanding the room as was expected of her, she averted her gaze and twiddled her fingers nervously while speaking in a barely audible whisper.

Jon had taken such care to make her feel welcome, in those days. He showed her the way around Winterfell, whenever she got lost again, and even taught her to pray to the old gods. Lady Catelyn scolded him for that - Lucie had grown up in the shadow of the Seven, the new Gods. Robb had gone out of his way to try and make her feel comfortable. He offered her a seat by the fire in the Great Hall while he fed her lessons on battles and strategy, noting that Lucie was a fast learner - able to keep up with him even as he tried to pummel her with facts. Theon, though never one for charity, seemed more enthralled by Lucie than any of them. Mostly because Lucie was not the type to laugh at his bad jokes or take part in his pranks - she was always too busy trying to stay one step ahead of everyone else in terms of knowledge.

Jon smiled fondly at his memories; he had been so sure that Lady Lucie would be like Sansa - aloof and haughty. Instead, she had become a dear friend and family member who could hold her own when needed - serving as an equal rather than a subordinate. It was amazing how someone so young could possess such depth and strength — something Jon admired greatly about her.

As the last plate was cleared, he glanced at Lucie and saw her weary eyes plead for solace. It had become a ritual - every night after dinner, while the others scurried off to their beds, she would stay in the library with him. They talked quietly about her struggles and sorrows as she clutched an aged book in her hands and the tears ran like rain down her face. On her first day, when everyone else had gone to bed, she asked meekly if she could stay up and read in the library. Septa Mordane attempted to bar her from doing so, but with one pained glance at Lord Eddard, her request was granted, albeit only if someone stayed with her. Together Jon and Lady Lucie walked into the library, and he felt nothing but pity and sadness for this brave little girl who had trusted him since the first time they had gone to talk.

That evening, all these moons ago, was something that made Jon cringe when looking back. Robb had tried to console the girl, yet after several unsuccessful attempts he asked for Jon's help. “Jon, nothing I said could get through to her. I offered her a pony, flowers, and new gowns, but she told me to go away. What’s wrong with her? She won’t tell me anything. Should I tell Septa Mordane or my mother?” Robb’s face was pale as he ran his hand through his hair anxiously.

Jon had crept back to the library, his leather belt clattering against the tops of his thighs as he walked. “Robb, do not try to console her. SHe is in mourning for her family and her home. I think you might scare her. Let me handle this.” Robb nodded acknowledgement and Jon entered the library, quietly shutting the door behind him. Lucie was hunched near the window, sobbing away. Robb was right, Jon had thought painfully; he could hear her muffled sobs and it made his heart ache for her. All he wanted was for her to feel some sense of comfort again.

Sitting down next to her, he cleared his throat to announce his presence. She looked up and sighed, wiping her tears and closed her worn book. “Please do not tell me all will be fine and for the love of… of the Gods, do not offer me a damned pony,” she muttered and sniffed.

“Even if I could, I wouldn’t. You have a fine steed yourself; I do not see the need for you to have a pony,” he said matter-of-factly and shifted in his seat, offering her a rag to blow her nose.

Lucie looked up at him, her dark eyes reddened by the tears. Tentatively blowing her nose, she sighed and tucked her feet under herself, hiding them under her lavish skirts. “So, I take it you are Jon Snow.”

He sighed, knowing that what would follow would be her acknowledgement of his status as a Bastard. He knew it all too well; Lady Catelyn had probably told her of that, prior to her arrival. She looked so young, so maybe he could still forgive her. “Indeed, I am, Lady Lucie.”

She had frowned, gently furrowing her thick, dark brows, patting the tears away from her reddened cheeks. “Why do you look like… Like I hurt you?”

Jon was baffled back then. She did not care about his mother, then. He might just start liking her. He gave her a small smile. “Oh, I... uhm…” His words, whatever they would’ve been, were stuck in his throat. “That is my mistake, my Lady. I meant no offense.”

“You are a peculiar man,” she noted, biting her lip, and putting the book to the side. “How could you offend me with your face? I think it is a fine one, I have seen worse.”

A big blush had crept up his cheeks. “I… My lady, I… Thank you.” Silence spread between them. “May I ask why you wished to go into the library and not just to your chambers?”

Now it had been Lucie’s turn to blush, though it seemed more in shame than in bashfulness. “That’s where my mother used to read to me and where we wrote before retiring to our chambers. I know, I know, it sounds childish, I should act like a Lady, but…” Tears welled up in her eyes again and spilled onto her dress.

With a nervous look, she stood up and sat down next to him, resting her head against his shoulder, crying quietly. Jon had decided not to probe, instead looking at the booklet. It didn’t belong to the Stark’s library - it must’ve been one of her own, titled ‘You shall be the best Lady.’ He hugged her, holding her gently, for the longest time, until her tears subsided, and her breath became calm once more. Sniffling, she gently broke free from his hug and gave him a small smile. “Thank you, Jon. I… shall retire now, I think.” To which he nodded, escorting her to her chamber.

Jon watched Lucie's figure slowly fade away down the hallway as darkness crept in, just like it had one year ago at the very same spot. But something was different about her tonight than in the first night. She seemed stronger, more confident as if she was hiding something from him. Should he confront her? He thought back to their conversations and noticed that she had been silent about what was going on with her life lately. He began to worry that maybe she had found out his secret - that terrible, shameful secret about how he touched himself late at night when no one would ever know. The mere thought sent a chill down Jon's spine.

She could not know, nobody could, it'd be the end of him.

He was entranced by the way Lucie had looked at him, with those mysterious dark eyes that seemed to know what he was feeling. Part of him wanted to believe that she felt something for him too- after all, he was the only one she allowed to spend time with her. But then there were moments when he could not help but feel that his own longing for her was deluding himself into seeing signs where there were none. He wished he could make sense of what she thought of him, yet he still could not unravel the complex of feelings between them.

Hells, he could not unravel his own thoughts, after all.

As he made his way back to his own chambers, he found himself lost in thought, replaying their conversation over and over in his mind. Lucie babbled something about Sansa's lady-friend crying and Arya asking her to train mounted shooting and, as always, Septa Mordane's question about her blood, which to her chagrin had still not come.

Jon could not comprehend why she felt so mortified by her own coming of age. She was now an adult at the ripe age of six-and-ten; why did this cause her such humiliation? Though he could somehow understand what she was implying, that everything associated with becoming a full woman was linked to... carnal passions.

He stopped walking for a second, remembering the redness of her cheeks as she talked about it. He shook his head and continued his way, not wanting to dwell on it any longer. He didn't want to assume anything – that was only a recipe for disaster and disappointment.

He was so deep in thought that he didn't even notice the figure standing in the shadows until it was too late.

A hand clamped over his mouth, muffling his cry of surprise. He struggled against the grip, but the person holding him was much stronger than he expected. Panic set in as he realised, he was being dragged away, the darkness swallowing him whole. When they finally stopped, Jon was disoriented and confused. He tried to shake the cobwebs from his head, but it was difficult to focus with the adrenaline pumping through his veins. It took a moment for his eyes to adjust to the dim candlelight of his bedchamber, but when they did, he could not believe what he was seeing.

Lucie stood before him, blushing, and wiping off the sweat from her brow, her hair undone and cascading over her shoulders in waves. She was clad in a simple cotton gown, the kind that the maids wore. Jon felt his heart skip a beat as he suddenly realised what was happening. He was afraid to speak, afraid that if he did, it would shatter the moment and she would disappear like a dream.

"Lucie?" he said confused, his voice cracking. “What on earth?!”

She grinned at him, the candlelight casting a warm glow across her face as she tried fixing the cloak around herself again. "I am sorry for this… unconventional method. I thought that this would be the safest way to be truly alone with you because... I want to talk to you. Without Lady Catelyn spying."

"I am sorry, I didn't mean to upset you or hurt you," Jon muttered and felt his throat tightening, gulping, and trying to swallow back the lump in his throat. How could he feel this way? He should not have felt anything for Lucie as she wrestled him into his room, but there was something thrilling and forbidden about it. It was not like Robb or Theon playing a joke on him - this moment was different. Even though he knew it was wrong, he could not help himself.

She tilted her chin up at him, her glossy black hair cascading down her back. Her voice was firm and determined as she spoke. "No, I am not angry. I want to know what it's like, Jon. What people do when they become intimate with one another. No one ever told me these things, but I trust you. Please tell me what it feels like, what am I supposed to do and how much does it hurt?"

He could feel his heart pounding in his chest. This was wrong - he knew that - yet he could not find the strength to deny her. The drive she had to learn more overshadowed her usual innocence, and there was something in that blazing gaze of hers that made it impossible for him to turn her away.

"Lucie, I do not think-"

"Please," she interrupted, taking a step closer to him. "I trust you, Jon. I know you won't lie to me. No one wanted to tell me and... I am...," her voice faltered, and she nervously bit her lip, sitting down on the foot of his bed, gently scratching Ghost between his fluffy ears. "I feel tens of thousands of things, most of all fear and... I trust you to help me."

Jon's heart was pounding in his chest, his mind racing with a million thoughts at once. He knew that what Lucie was asking was wrong, that he should not be indulging her curiosity in this way. But still, he could not deny the pull he felt towards her. It was as if a part of him had been waiting for this moment, for her to come to him with her questions and her fears.

He took a deep breath and stepped closer to her, his hand reaching out to touch her shoulder. "Lucie, I can't teach you those things," he said softly, trying to keep his voice steady. "It's not right. You are too young, and it's not... it's not something that should be taken lightly."

Her pupils widened with shock, and she gave him an awkward, confused glance. "But why?" she questioned, her voice wavering slightly. "I thought... I thought we had established an atmosphere of trust, considering all I've shared with you."

Jon's heart lurched as he heard the pain in Lucie's voice. He did care for her deeply, far more than he should. But that didn't change the fact that what she was suggesting was both dangerous and wrong.

Taking a shaky step back, he shook his head sadly. "Lucie, you do not know what You are asking of me," he said quietly. "It's not something I can take back once it's done, and it's a decision that should only be made with someone you truly love and whom you plan to spend your life with. You know we can never marry... You are a highborn Lady, and I am just..." His tongue stumbled over the word he wanted to say, knowing that even a whisper of his parentage had the power to shatter their moment.

Lucie stared at him for a long moment, her sharp eyes zigzagging across his face like she was searching for something he could not place. Then she let out an awkward laugh and touched his shoulder with tenderness. She adjusted herself under her nightgown, probably trying to hide the embarrassment that came with their misunderstanding.

"Oh Jon! I only wanted you to talk me through it, not show me!" She said in between giggles as she planted a gentle peck on his stubbly cheek. "You are so imaginative," Biting her lip, she looked away before continuing: "What do you think I am? A hungry harlot looking for prey?" With a suppressed smile, she raised an eyebrow waiting for his response, her cheeks ablaze.

Jon could not help but let out a small laugh at her words, the tension in the room dissipating slightly. "No, no, of course not, Lucie," he said, feeling relieved that she didn't expect more from him. He wanted her to... have flowered, he wanted them to have kissed, he wanted it to be less... dangerous, to be more romantic.

"I am sorry, I just... I didn't want to disappoint you. I know how important this is to you, but it's not something I can do. Not right now, at least. I do not want to lie... I uh..." The heat shot straight back into his head. "I have only ever talked about it, I've yet to... lie with someone." Because I am saving myself for you, I want you, only you, Lucie... the thoughts whirred in his head.

Lucie nodded, her expression softening. "Oh, I understand then," she said quietly, clearly unhappy with his response. "I just... I feel so lost sometimes. There's so much I do not know, so much I am not allowed to know. And I am afraid... afraid of being alone forever. I... I mean, yes, I will be married soon, and we both know who it will be with a high probability, but..."

As Jon gazed into her eyes, her vulnerability tugged at his heartstrings. He knew he could not leave her feeling like this; she deserved better than that. So, he inched closer and sat down on the bed beside her.

"You'll never be alone, Lucie," he whispered softly as he took her hand in his. "I'll always have your back no matter what happens. And someday, the man who's meant for you will come into your life."

He thought about Robb, and how he owed it to him to let Lucie go. It was selfish of him to keep her to himself. Besides, he could not even tell if she liked him or not - it was probably all in his head.

With a mix of gratitude and sadness, he knew that there was no going back from this moment. He leaned in, pressing a soft kiss to her forehead, which smelled wonderfully of peonies, and she closed her eyes, her arms tightening around his waist. For a moment, they sat there in silence, lost in their own thoughts and feelings, until he pulled away, breaking the moment.

"I should get some rest," he mumbled, trying to guess the time. "You should too, we are to hunt tomorrow."

Lucie shifted back into her old, sad self and gave him a tired smile. "Of course. I wouldn't want Robb and Theon to think that I do not want to see them. It's... uhm, I am sorry to have bothered you, Jon. I promise it won't happen again." She got up and tied her cloak around her shoulders. "I am bringing you in dangerous situations, you know, being alone with you and then overstepping your boundaries. I am... sorry," she mumbled.

'No, you haven't! Please do not leave!', shot through Jon's mind, yet he knew he could not, it was wrong. It was shameful and... he didn't want to project his feelings and his lust onto her, so he gave her a small, sad smile in return.

As Lucie turned to leave, Jon could not help but watch her walk away, his eyes lingering on the sway of her hips. When she stood up, a bright flash of red silk slipped out from under her nightgown; the ribbon that held her stockings around her pale, supple thighs. He knew it was wrong to think of it, of her, in that way, but he could not help it. She was so beautiful, so pure, and so unreachable.

He wanted her, desperately.

He shook his head, trying to rid himself of those thoughts. It was wrong, so wrong. He had to push those feelings aside, for both their sakes. He could not risk ruining the delicate balance they had between them. So, he took a deep breath, laying back on the bed. His thoughts drifted to the memory of Lucie's lost ribbon, the image of her silky stockings and smooth skin replaying in his mind. He felt himself growing hard again, and he knew what he had to do.

He closed his eyes and let his hand wander down to his growing erection, imagining it was Lucie's small, delicate hand instead. He stroked himself slowly, feeling his heartbeat quicken as he thought of her. He pictured her beautiful face, the curve of her lips, the arch of her eyebrows, her sharp, sparkling eyes. He imagined her soft, warm skin, her supple thighs, her tight, wet cunny.

As he continued to stroke himself, he let out a low moan, his body writhing with pleasure. He fantasised about Lucie being with him, touching him, kissing him, and eventually, making love to him. He imagined her moaning his name, her body trembling with ecstasy.

He stroked himself faster, his breathing growing ragged as his body approached the peak of pleasure. He moaned louder, his hand moving faster and faster until he finally exploded, spilling his hot seed all over his hand.

As he lay there, panting and sweating, he knew he had to get his feelings for Lucie under control. He could not let his lust for her ruin the special bond they shared. But at the same time, he could not stop himself from fantasising about her. She was just too beautiful, too alluring, too... perfect.

He closed his eyes and took a deep breath, feeling his body slowly calming down. He knew he had a lot to think about, a lot to figure out. But for now, he just needed to rest. He closed his eyes and let himself drift off to sleep, his mind full of thoughts of Lucie.

AO3 <= Other Stories ¦ Next Chapter => 2 - Robb

#asas fics #fanfiction #game of thrones #asoiaf #got #a song of ice and fire #jon snow #jon snow x oc #jon snow angst #jon snow fanfic #jon snow smut #robb stark x oc #robb stark fanfic #robb stark fanfiction #robb stark smut #robb stark angst #robb stark fluff #jon snow fluff

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atopvisenyashill · 7 months ago

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Asking this because I (for some reason) have yet to see a theory stating this (even though it must exist!) but waht do you think the changes are of Brienne being the person who gets Alaynes favor and her potentially competing on Sansa's behalf in a trial for the kinslaying allegations? Obviously Brienne and Sansa even meeting is hotly debated but with the direction the show went in I can't see Briensa (platonic) not happening!

First I'm assuming you meant kingslaying because I was like wait how did I forget Sansa being accused of killing one of her siblings omg?? alsdjf unless you mean "kinslaying allegations" ie she betrayed Ned in which case, if that does come up (it's certainly possible) it's not likely to come up until waaaay later because the only person who would care is like, Arya, really, (I think both Jon and Bran would understand Sansa's actions here) and I don't think it will escalate to Brienne having to fight a trial by combat for her in that case.

BUT.

THAT'S AN INTERESTING THEORY. I think the general consensus here is that they're going to meet somehow at the tourney and escape it together, and also, Shadrich will be involved and probably Bronze Yohn as well, but that's pretty much as concrete as I've seen anyone get (altho if anyone does have a more concrete theory, let me know!!!).

So firstly, I think this would match up with the Ashford Tourney Theory very well -> Sansa having all the same suitors, only for the tourney to get upended by a trial by the seven/the appearance of The Truest Knight In All Of Westeros. Brienne, being both a True Knight and a descendant of Dunk, makes the most sense for being part of the foreshadowing of this theory in my opinion. And that little note we got of GRRM's outline included that line "kill the mouse" which points to Shadrich being a problem for Sansa or Brienne or both in the coming twow chapters. However...some random hedge knight can't just make off with either Sansa Stark, Last Surviving Stark or Alayne Stone, Only Child Of Lord Protector Baelish, without causing a HUGE ruckus (look at her escape from KL - they needed a huge ruckus to cover up their movements!). SO. Considering he showed up with a bunch of other guys...maybe Shadrich and several others looking for Sansa accuse of her being a kingslayer and say they are arresting her and taking her back to King's Landing to face the king's justice. And just like Tyrion got free by having Bronn defeat someone, perhaps Brienne, who enters in the lists in the hopes of getting close to Sansa as a mystery knight, steps up to call for a trial by the seven. That would be a parallel to Dunk as well!

And in the chaotic aftermath, when Brienne (and Bronze Yohn maybe!!) has cleared Sansa's name, something goes awry (maybe Harry dies fighting in the trial, maybe Sweetrobin dies and Sansa tells Brienne she doesn't want to marry Harry), the girls decide to make a run for the Wall, to the only other known relative Sansa has left alive outside of the Tullys - her recently revived bastard brother Jon Snow.

As for gaining her favor...while I'm fairly confident that Brienne saves Sansa and they leave together from the Vale, the state in which Brienne shows up is really up in the air. She's just leaving from whatever the fuck has happened with Lady Stoneheart and Jaime. Maybe she's injured. Maybe she has no money. Maybe she sees Ser Shadrich there and decides she's better off disguised. It could make sense that she enters the tourney in an attempt to see if she can find Sansa in the crowd, spots her, and asks her for her favor. Cue Shadrich accusal, trial by seven, and escape.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Interesting prediction anon, I'd love to hear what other people think.

#briensa #valyrianscrolls #brienne of tarth #sansa stark #the ashford tourney theory #asks #anons #twow speculation #gotta get my dunk and brienne tag in order i think its #dunk and brienne parallels #maybe its #duncan and brienne parallels

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reviewsbykarla · 2 years ago

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Game of Thrones: Seasons 1 & 2

I just started watching Game of Thrones for the first time ever. I feel like this is a good time of life to start watching it, as I feel less pressure to know what's going on. Which is definitely a good thing because what the fuck is going on in this show? I have been trying to pay attention, but it's so hard. I keep needing to stop episodes halfway through and rewind episodes. My roommate is a big fan, and she keeps asking me questions about things that happened and I just keep answering, "wait, what happened?" So I guess I'll try to start with a list of the important characters and where they live just to remind myself of everything that happened, also their relative relationships to the show:

Winterfell

- The Starks: King (?) Ned and Lady Catelyn

- Sansa (daughter of Ned Stark and Catelyn)

- Arya (daughter of Ned Stark and Catelyn)

- Robb (son of Ned Stark and Catelyn, later becomes king)

- Other stark boys (fuck I can't remember the name of the one who is paralyzed but I love him so much)

- Jon Snow (bastard son of Ned Stark)

- Hodor

- The lady who helps Hodor

- The wise man

- Lady Catelyan's right hand lady who comes around in Season 2

North of the wall people (wilderlings? wild things?)

- Redhead who edges on Jon Snow (I really like her)

Kings Landing

- Cerci Lanister (fuck her)

- Joffery Lanister (fuck him)

- Tyrion Lanister

- Kingslayer Lanister (can't remember his first name)(just remembered it's Jamie)

- Peter Dinklage's whore who he falls in love with

Iron Islands

- That jerky guy

- The jerky guys sister who gets in charge because she's better than him

- Their father

East of Westeros

- Kal Drogo (RIP)

- Danerys Targarian (aka Kahlessi)

- Kahlessi's man aid guy/right hand man

- Kahlessi's dragons (3)

Other people

- Stannis Barathean

- The cool lady that marries Robb Stark

- The Lanister father (is that Stannis Barathean? How did he end up where he is?)

- Lady Margery

- Lady Margery's brother

oh god i'm forgetting so many people and important story lines....

So season one is the intro. There is a fight for the throne. I remember that it started because King Robert (?) died. He was married to Cersi. So then Cersi's son, Joffery becomes king. But Joffery is a tiny little asshole (LDE am I right??) and no one wants him to sit on the Iron Throne except Cersi. I think that's what starts the game. Basically everyone in Westeros is ticked off because they believe they have the right to the throne. So a war starts and shit gets crazy and lots of people get killed. Starting with Ned Stark. I didn't expect him to die so soon but I didn't really care for him so I wasn't disappointed. Basically, Joffery becomes king and he kills Ned because Ned was plotting to take him off the throne. Butttt that also reminds me that the reason Ned was there in the first place, is because the king's hand died (King Robert's hand). Some people were speculating that the Lanister's killed the hand to try and get the throne. So basically everything is the Lanister's fault. And Cerci and Jamie were having sex (incest) and Joffery was their kid (it's all fucked up). And then Joffery gets so pissed off that he beheads Ned Stark in front of his daughters and puts his head on a stake. And then Arya and Sansa are held captive (sort of) at Kings Landing, but Arya gets away. I have no idea how, but Arya ends up with Stannis Barathean and pretends to be a boy for a while but then everyone realizes she's a girl and she is basically this little slave helper until she runs away with the help of some dude who's face changes.

That brings me to my next point - I had no idea this was a fantasy show. There are a lot of made up things. I knew there were dragons from the get go, but that didn't click in my head that this show IS NOT BASED IN REALITY. There is some weird shit that goes on. Like dark magic and demons and shit. It's really unrealistic and I really wasn't expecting it. I'm not sure who has magic, how they have the magic, where it comes from, etc. Kahlessi has some kind of magic but it seems more like she just knows how to control her dragons... That begs the question, did she just watch "How to Train your Dragon" and is faking it till she makes it? Not sure.

My third point would be, Kahlessi fucking rocks. I love her. She is my favorite character. She is also trying to get the throne. So these are the people that are fighting for the throne:

- Robb Stark

- Kahlessi

- Stannis Barathean

- That magical guy

- The jerky guy

- Probably others i'm not remembering...

Kahlessi married Kal Drogo (may he RIP that hot piece of meat) but the whole situation was fucked up because she was basically forced to marry him and he rapes her and then she falls in love with him??? what the fuck? whatever. Then she gets pregnant with his son and then this crazy witch lady kills her son and Kal Drogo and then Kahlessi walks into a fire with some dragon eggs and these dragons are birthed (they weren't supposed to ever be birthed) and she survives this bonfire and ends up with as queen of the dragons with 3 dragons. Then she's like "fuck you all! I'm getting what's mine!" and sets off on her one-woman quest to the throne and takes no dirty business from nobody. So far, it's inspiring. So when I left off, she had just gotten her dragons back and was finally getting a ship, because she is east of westeros and has to cross the narrow sea to get to the throne. She's the one with the toughest luck here, being so effing far away. Honestly I think she deserves it for making that crazy journey and doing it all on her own. Everyone else can go fuck themselves.

So let's see... other important story lines.

- Tyrion Lanister falls in love with a whore, which is a big deal because he fell in love with a whore before and his dad killed her (or banished her? I'm not sure).

- Jamie Lanister has been captured by Lady Catelyn and is being held hostage in exchange for her daughter, Sansa and Arya, but she doesn't know Arya has already escaped. Later on she lets him go and Robb gets wayyy pissed and basically starts holding his mom hostage because she fucked things up for him.

- There's a guy without a penis who is really important but I'm not totally sure why.

- There's another guy who owns a brothel... better add him to the list up top... and he's important. He used to be in love with Lady Catelyn, I think he still is actually, and he does something good and ends up getting awarded a castle. He tells Sansa he will help her get back to winterfell.

- Sansa was betrothed to Joffery on an agreement between King Robert and Ned Stark. She's miserable because Joffery is a psychopath and kills everyone and beats up Sansa. Sansa does not want to be there but is scared she's gonna get killed or something, so she pretends to love him and to be loyal to the Lanisters. Eventually Joffery is like "fuck you your father betrayed me so I'm gonna marry Lady Margery"

- Winterfell gets burned down because the jerky guy tries to take over and his army turns their backs on him and capture him and burn the city down. So no one's there anymore, sorry Sansa.

- Jon Snow is up in the snow somewhere and there's a lot of sexual tension between him and the redhead. They should really just get it on. Also he's a virgin.

- Hodor carries the nice little stark boy who has escaped winterfell after it burned. Not sure where he's going.

Now that I've recapped the first two seasons, I will let you in on my overall review. Interesting concept, not sure if I buy the fantasy, I'm really mostly hooked because I'm rooting for Kahlessi, and I want to watch Jon Snow lose his virginity. There is way too much female nudity, there should be more male nudity. I wish there was less raping. I just think they could have made that a less important torture tactic and still gotten the general barbaric vibes across. I think there should be some kind of guide that comes along with the show to help me keep the locations and names straight, cause I keep getting lost. I wish they could brighten up the shots a bit more because it's hard to watch in the dark and I get really sleepy. I guess I understand why people like this show so much: there's love, there's death, there's drama, there's nudity, there's actual porn, and there's lots of blood and intrigue. I just don't think it's really my genre or cup of tea, but I also really want to know what happens now so I'm definitely going to keep watching.

So far, I'd give it a 6.5/10

#tv show #tv review #recap #spoiler #gameofthrones #review #reviews #synopses #synopsis

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emma00fin · 1 year ago

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Week 48

Translating economics exercises

For my final week of ALMS, I decided to do something I did more at the start of the course: translation. I decided to translate this essay I wrote on one of my economics courses:

"For the fourth lecture, Risto Murto from Varma came to talk about Finland's sustainability gap. The lecture didn't feature any basic knowledge of the pension system, which might have thrown some viewers off with understanding the ideas discussed. On the other hand, this gave more time to talk about the sustainability gap and its more complex solutions. It was also interesting to hear rather biological terminology, like "pairing" and "fertility", on an economics specialist lecture.

I knew already that the Finnish pension system is based on the pension payments of the workers and the investment of some of those payments. A question about the system's equality was raised, as different age groups have to pay different amounts in respect to their incomes according to the sizes of the age groups. I started to wonder, have the so-called "baby boomers" paid relatively small amounts of pension when they were working? Wouldn't it have been smart to collect extra pensions in this situation, as it was acknowledged even back then that this age group of baby boomers is unusually large? By investing these extra payments, the situation that is unfolding nowadays could have been helped. This kind of system should be thought about for the future if the birth rate starts to increase again.

One of the concepts discussed in the lecture was that the Finnish birth rate is at an unreasonable decline. Murto offered one of many explanations for this: having children is nowadays delayed to the 30s when fertility has already started to decrease remarkably. This increases the chance of not being able to conceive due to infertility, which is a great cause of being childless nowadays in Finland. I researched that according to the Finnish Väestöliitto, some 85% of 20 to 24-year-olds, 83% of 25 to 29-year-olds, 71% of 30 to 34-year-olds, 70% of 35 to 39-year-olds and 63% of 40 to 44-year-olds of those who are childless want or have wanted a child. Linking these two concepts are important in my opinion, because it is very clear from this that access to infertility treatments should be increased. I also advocate for legalizing surrogacy in Finland, which would also help with this problem and increase the birth rate of Finland.

Immigration was also discussed as a solution for the sustainability gap. Murto talked about how immigration does not necessarily improve the birth rates, as immigrants rarely are 0-year-olds. In my opinion, the decreased birth rate is not the problem in itself, but rather one area of it. By solving the declining birth rate, you are fixing the problem in 20 years, not currently. That is why I feel like the problem currently is fixed by increasing employment-based immigration. The lecture featured a diagram that showed the permanence rates of different immigration groups in their destination countries. The diagram revealed that most of employment-based immigrants do not stay in the country for long, which was portrayed as a bad sign. However, in my opinion, there is actually no need for them to stay for the rest of their lives. Isn't it better for them to come work in Finland for a few decades and then for them to leave before they retire and start enjoying the Finnish pension system? This would make the sustainability gap more sustainable for the younger generations.

Watching Game of Thrones

I ended the course of a high note and watched Game of Thrones season seven.

The seventh season was really a season of new beginnings. Daenerys and Jon Snow formed a so-called dream-team, yet it is found out that Jon's father isn't Ned Stark, but Daenerys' older brother Rhaegar. This gives the season another weird twist of forbidden relations. Another new beginning started when Arya returned to Winterfell, another emotional episode for me.

The expedition beyond the wall was a really intense storyline, and it really shows the Night King's power, as a dragon is taken down and turned to the side of the dead. This makes the Night King's position even more powerful, which makes Jon and Daenerys' mission to save Westeros and the rest of the world even more unlikely to succeed than it was before.

I am really keen on what happens in the final season of Game of Thrones, as the scene is perfectly set by the final episode of season 7, where the dead dragon brings down the (previously unpermeable) Wall.

HOURS

Listening: 69 h 27 min

Reading: 8 h 30 min

Spoken interaction: 3 h

Written and online interaction: 4 h (included the time it takes to write these posts, about 15 min each)

Spoken production: 3h

Written production: 10 h 30 min

Total 98 h 27 min

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ao3feed-tywinxjoanna · 1 year ago

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Winter Roses and White Wolves

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/XrfHkOV

by Lyntysm

The Rebellion is lost but not without heavy casualties on the Targaryen side. King Aerys II has been slain by Jaime Lannister. Prince Rhaegar has fallen at the Trident in combat against Robert Baratheon. The mountain also slew the prince’s firstborn son before being felled by Dornish soldiers coming to the aid of the new Queen Elia Targaryen nee Martell first of her name, Queen Regent of the seven Kingdoms. Lady Lyanna Targaryen nee Stark dies in childbirth in the broken tower with her brother Ned and the KIngsguards serving her by her side. She gives birth to Rhaegar’s son who is sent away to be fostered North with the starks.

The realm lives in relative peace with Queen Rhaella as Regent to Viserys III Targaryen until his untimely death a year before his coronation. Throwing the realm into a succession crisis.

Words: 1769, Chapters: 2/3, Language: English

Fandoms: Game of Thrones (TV), A Song of Ice and Fire & Related Fandoms, A Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin

Rating: Mature

Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence, Major Character Death

Categories: F/M, M/M

Characters: Catelyn Tully Stark, Ned Stark, Ashara Dayne, Elia Martell, Viserys Targaryen (Brother of Daenerys), Daenerys Targaryen, Jon Snow, Sansa Stark, Arya Stark, Robb Stark, Theon Greyjoy, Petyr Baelish, Jaime Lannister, Cersei Lannister

Relationships: Catelyn Tully Stark/Ned Stark, Joanna Lannister/Aerys II Targaryen, Joanna Lannister/Tywin Lannister, Ashara Dayne/Ned Stark, Stannis Baratheon/Cersei Lannister

Additional Tags: Elia Martell Lives, Queen Elia Martell, R Plus L Equals J | Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen are Jon Snow's Parents, Jon Snow is a Targaryen, Jon Snow Knows Something, BAMF Sansa Stark, BAMF Ned Stark, Past Ashara Dayne/Ned Stark

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/XrfHkOV

#ao3feed #fanfic #ao3feed tywinxjoanna

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sigilsongs-a · 11 months ago

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(``) muse tags. SANSA

(``) sansa stark . (tag)

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jackoshadows · 1 year ago

Note

Yes, Melisandre mistook Alys Karstark for Arya in her visions because Alys Karstark and Arya Stark look very similar. She’s not mistaking any random girl to be the Lord Commander’s Stark looking sister. So much so that for a moment, even Jon Snow sees Alys and thinks she is Arya.

Does Sansa have the long face of the Starks? No? Then why do you guys keep repeating this made up and completely wrong headcanon by randomly shoving Sansa in there? Especially a blog called ‘ASOIAF essays collector’. It’s not Sansa, it’s not Jeyne. It's Alys Karstark.

That section of the story is done. It was used to set in motion Jon’s arc of trying to save his sister, to disregard Mel’s warnings because she got it wrong, for Alys getting to the Wall so that Jon gets to create a new house and ally for house Stark and to begin integrating the Freefolk into the North.

The girl in grey being not the Stark but someone else entirely just because this girl fits the criteria? It’s not interesting. That’s just boring.

I mean, it’s not interesting for you because it’s not Sansa. However, these books are not the Song of Sansa and Sansa. I, and many others, who like the character of Jon Snow and are invested in Jon Snow’s arc at the Wall did find it interesting as another example of how Melisandre is fallible and keeps interpreting her visions wrong - Stannis is Azor Ahai, seeing Jon’s face in her fires and not connecting the dots - seeing a girl with the long, Stark face in her fires and mistaking it for Jon’s sister etc. As mentioned above, Mel’s vision is what spurs on a chunk of Jon’s arc at the Wall, including that ending.

The show is not the books and GRRM has repeatedly disavowed the TV show’s plot of Sansa going North and even used that as an example of the TV show and the books being two separate canon.

One of the most interesting part of this lack of interactions is the fact that it doesn’t mean that they don’t have this defined relationship. Their meeting and then dynamic will be a total wild card - unlike any other pair of siblings. They can literally have any dynamic and shared history or lack of it and we have no idea what it will be. I’m so excited!

They don’t have a defined relationship because the author is not interested in defining that relationship. We already know what their dynamic is because the basis for their non-existent relationship is that Jon is a bastard, Sansa looked down on bastards and hence failed to foster a relationship with him unlike the rest of her siblings. Even going as far as the TWoW sample chapter, she still thinks bastards are the lowest of the low, worthy of only marrying low born and plain looking folks.

Though he had risen to knighthood, Ser Lothor’s birth had been very low. Sober, he was a quiet man, but a strong one. And Petyr says he’s loyal. He trusts him as much as he trusts anyone. Brune would be a good match for a bastard girl like Mya Stone, she thought. - Alayne, AFfC

Why in the world would this be some kind of ‘Wild-card’ or new dynamic? Sansa is still classist and sexist, fails to realize why it's wrong for bastards to be discriminated against and Jon is relatively more egalitarian than she will ever be. In ADwD Jon still thinks of girls like her with disdain as opposed to the warrior princesses like Val. That's been consistent since book one.

And if we are talking reunions then I am looking forward to the relationship on which the author has actually invested page time and organically build over 5 books. The catharsis of an older Arya Stark - who has been trying to get to Jon Snow from book one - finally, finally seeing a resurrected, more wolfish Jon Snow with holes in his memory.... and Jon's hand automatically trying to muss Arya's hair... and lots of tears and hugs and just unconditional love. That's what I want. That's what I am excited for - the old/new dynamic between Jon and Arya when they meet again!

This is the last thing that Arya says before her life comes crashing down and the Lannister guards send by Cersei to find her, force open their doors...

Syrio Forel allowed himself a smile. "I am thinking that when we are reaching this Winterfell of yours, it will be time to put this needle in your hand." "Yes!" Arya said eagerly. "Wait till I show Jon—" Behind her the great wooden doors of the Small Hall flew open with a resounding crash. Arya whirled. - Arya, AGoT

How is this not the reunion everyone is looking forward to?!

And if we are talking location, then the first reunion that is most likely to happen is that of Jon Snow and Rickon Stark. I can't wait for this one. Rickon, brought up by Osha of the Freefolk, on cannibal island with Shaggydog - he would have embraced Osha's culture just as much as Jon Snow has done. Another dynamic I am really excited and looking forward to - Jon Snow and his baby brother.

And then there's Bran who has been trying to communicate with Jon and Arya (and probably Rickon as well) through their wolf dreams. I can't wait for Arya to understand what is happening with respect to her warging and wolf dreams and for Jon Snow to embrace being a warg after resurrection and for all three to talk to each other in their wolf dreams! Another exciting dynamic of these three children who left Winterfell, young and naive, and now meeting as powerful wargs.

until they learn that Bran and Rickon are alive they both are kinda heirs of Starks and Winterfell, both are ruler coded since AGOT and their political strengths complement each other's weaknesses.

The books are way ahead of you. The North already knows that Rickon Stark is alive! How did you not read this in ADwD? Did the blog 'ASoIaF essay collector' read ADwD before collecting essays? The most powerful house in the North, with ships and money, is behind Rickon Stark as Lord of Winterfell and has assigned Davos to go get him for them.

Sansa is most likely disinherited by Robb's decree, the same decree that legitimizes Jon Stark and names him Lord of Winterfell and KITN. And Sansa has not done any ruling, has not treated/negotiated with other leaders or been involved in diplomacy with adults/other rulers, has not had a ruling arc and consistently trusted the wrong people. What in the world do you mean by 'ruler coded'? Getting a 8 year old SweetRobin to eat his dinner is not indicative of being a ruler.

Jon Snow is a politically savvy leader, who has engaged in diplomacy with varied leaders, who has a keen knowledge and understanding of both the North and south, who has engaged in rebuilding the wall, making allies, trade and training etc. He's smart, he's proactive and if he does need a family member's help in leading the North, then there is always the sister who actually knows the North and has always and unconditionally loved him and supported him - Arya Stark.

On the other hand Jon Snow even with Stark blood printed on his Ned Stark (who is still beloved in the North) face is still a bastard and can't interfere with claim of legitimate heirs (given that Robb's will is still unknown). One of them on his/her own can raise a lot of questions but two can make a decent claim.

And there is greater probability that Arya Stark who has always loved her bastard brother despite his low birth

Arya chewed her lip and said nothing. She would not betray Jon, not even to their father. - Arya, AGoT

and Bran Stark who said this

"Then let Lord Hornwood's bastard be the heir," Bran said, thinking of his half brother Jon. - Bran, ACoK

and Rickon who was too young to understand what being a bastard meant when his life changed,

It had been the night of the welcoming feast, when King Robert had brought his court to Winterfell. Arya made faces across the table when no one was looking; Sansa listened raptly while the king's high harper sang songs of chivalry, and Rickon kept asking why Jon wasn't with them. "Because he's a bastard," Bran finally had to whisper to him. - Bran, ACoK

would all be supportive of their oldest, most experienced brother whom they loved and who loved them in return as Lord of Winterfell and KITN. I don't see any Northern house supporting Sansa until her marriage to Tyrion is annulled or he dies. No one in the North would want Lannister control over Winterfell.

Arya Stark knows the North so much better than Sansa ever did. It's Arya who has an intimate knowledge of the WF working class, Arya who sits with her father listening to the workers, to the lords talking politics and the everyday workings of Winterfell and the North. Arya who has political plots involving the Northern houses and Lords, Arya for whom the North is even now rising against the Boltons, Arya for whom Jon Snow ended up breaking those all important oaths of neutrality.

Not to mention her hulking huge alpha of a Direwolf, playing a pivotal role in winning battles and reinforcing Stark power as a symbol of House Stark just as much as the dragons do the same for House Targaryen.

Why is GRRM going to throw all this build up over 5 books in the bin and start over with a new character? Is it because the show did this and Benioff and Weiss - like you guys - wanted Sansa to have Arya's plots and narrative themes in the books? Again, GRRM has said in interviews that the show is the show and the books are the books and they are two different canons.

I don't see Jon and Sansa meeting in the North. She still has a lot of plot to cover in the Vale and Jon/Rickon is most likely the first Stark reunion we are getting - GRRM has again and again mentioned how Rickon Stark is important in the books - as they combine their allies and direwolves to defeat the Boltons and take back Winterfell.

For me, idk if Sansa is the girl in grey in Melisandre's prophecy and i don't care if they reunite at the Wall, in the Vale, in Winterfell or on the way, because the thing is its almost given that Sansa and Jon will be the first Starks to reunite since they are the most distant ones. Its how grrm works. The Starks are the central family of the series and out of their four povs that remain, Jon and Sansa are the only ones to not have a defined relationship and their reunion in twow before others will give them time to develop one.

In defence of the girl in grey theory - at this point it almost impossible to imagine her being not sansa. As much as I would prefer the vale meeting. Just think of it - Jon and Melisandre were thinking that the girl in grey would be Arya but ironically it was Jeyne Pool/Alys Karstark who happened to be geographically more convenient? Nah, that's not the irony of GRRM. Now, Sansa who Jon barely registers as sister in his inner pov - that would be the irony that we are used to in ASOIAF.

The girl in grey being not the Stark but someone else entirely just because this girl fits the criteria? It's not interesting. It gives the same vibes as theory that Cersei's valonqar is neither Tyrion nor Jaime and some other person that just happens to be someone else's younger sibling. That's just boring.

"Jon and Sansa are the only ones to not have a defined relationship" - oooh, now that's the topic I can speculate about for hours.

I'm rereading ASOS right now and gosh, the ways GRRM chooses to portray these two while their lack of any established relationship in books? That's simply fascinating how he dances around some words and names.

One of the most interesting part of this lack of interactions is the fact that it doesn't mean that they don't have this defined relationship. Their meeting and then dynamic will be a total wild card - unlike any other pair of siblings. They can literally have any dynamic and shared history or lack of it and we have no idea what it will be. I'm so excited!

And it's not only that. There is a conflict between them too - until they learn that Bran and Rickon are alive they both are kinda heirs of Starks and Winterfell, both are ruler coded since AGOT and their political strengths complement each other's weaknesses. Moreover, both can support each other's claim. Sansa Stark while being legitimate heir in many lords eyes is still married to Lannister and everyone knows it and she is also a girl who doesn't know how to wage a war. On the other hand Jon Snow even with Stark blood printed on his Ned Stark (who is still beloved in the North) face is still a bastard and can't interfere with claim of legitimate heirs (given that Robb's will is still unknown). One of them on his/her own can raise a lot of questions but two can make a decent claim.

So yeah.

Sansa and Jon meeting first of the pack is making quite a lot of sense from every point of view. It's not just that they are most distant siblings and thus make more interesting pair to interact, it's also very practical for GRRM if he wants Starks to go on the offensive - two of them combined can actually form a decent political power (in terms of both claim and set of skills). No other pair of Starks has that.

#Jon Snow #Sansa Stark #Arya Stark #decided to respond to this as it showed up in the tags #So so tired of this girl in grey nonsense #when will it die #Please GRRM give us TWOW so we can move onto new material...

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