#(``) sansa stark . rel. catelyn stark

[naggascradle]

Covers for A Game of Thrones, I (Jon Snow) II (Daenerys Targaryen) III (Tyrion Lannister) IV (Catelyn Stark) V (Ned Stark) & A Clash of Kings, I (Arya Stark) II (Theon Greyjoy) III (Sansa Stark) IV (Davos Seaworth) V (Bran Stark), drawn by Ken Sugiwara for the Japanese paperback release of A Song of Ice and Fire.

[fromtheseventhhell]

"Sansa = Ned 2.0 and Arya = Catelyn 2.0" is one of those takes where you can just tell people are more attached to the aesthetic than anything. "The Stark girls are most like the parent they look least like" sounds good on paper and people run with the idea, regardless of how it actually fits into the story. A majority of the justification relies on misinterpreting all of their characters + a healthy dose of fanon. What gets me is that this is the same fandom that insists that Lyanna, only compared to Arya in the text, is equal parts Arya and Sansa but Ned and Catelyn, two fully fleshed-out and complex characters, have to be more like one girl or the other? There's just nothing in the story to justify being so adamant about these comparisons. Arya and Sansa have parallels with both of their parents but at the end of the day, they are unique characters with their own stories. I'll never understand why people want to flatten these complex characters down to their most basic tropes and fit them into restrictive boxes just for a "poetical~" comparison.

[sigilsongs-a]

(``) muse tags. JON

(``) jon snow . (tag)

[s0urw00lf]

Bound

“Lion” and the wolf

Jon snow x reader

Summary: you meet Jon snow and immediately take a liking to him

A/N: may be a series may not be i don’t know yet. I hope it is because I’m hyperfixated on game of thrones right now and there’s only 10 episodes per season. Also is it just me who finds season 1 Jon just adorable?

Divider from @thecutestgrotto

When your father informed you that the king, the queen, and their close relatives including you were to accompany him to winterfell to name lord Stark as his new hand after Jon Arryns passing your first initial reaction was shock, they’d never really considered you a part of their family. Cersei was all about blood relation unless married into the family and you were neither. Therefore casting you to the furthest end of the Lannister/Baratheon family tree. The only ones that really accepted you was your father, Jamie and tommen. Joffrey was way too cruel for his own good, there was no doubt in your mind that it is going to be the reason he ends up dead.

”Must I go father, you and I both know me and Cersei around one another for any extended amount of time is not good for anyone within mere miles of us.” You asked, looking at him through the mirror in your room as your handmaiden braided your hair.

”Yes you must, the king has ordered it” he replied in his usual nonchalant tone. You rolled your eyes “when are we to set off?” You asked.

“By sunrise” he replied “I’ll leave you to sleep you’re going to need it”

your father exited your chambers and soon your handmaiden helped you get settled into your nightwear.

Sleep had not come easy to you. The thought of being in a compressed space with Cersei and Joffrey you’d go as far as to say it gave you nightmares. You are a well behaved lady, you know when and when not to speak and how to butter anyone up. But when it came to the queen and her eldest son you always managed to be sent off with the threat of your head on a spike.

Most of the ride to winterfell was spent bickering with Joeffry, somehow the young prince hadn’t learned how to respect anyone outside of himself, it got so bad that you’d ended up calling him an arrogant bastard which resulted in a slap from Cersei and you riding in the back with your uncle Jamie. Only when you were outside of the walls built around winterfell did you place yourself inside the carriage so you could present yourself as the “perfect family”.

You were introduced to the Stark family after your cousins, you’d heard stories of the bastard boy of Eddard Stark who looked more like a Stark than the eldest Stark boy. He was attractive, Robb. Any woman with eyes could see that, his striking blue eyes stood out against his dark curly hair and pale face. But as you searched more carefully you couldn’t find the other eldest boy. Next to Robb stood Lady Sansa who you knew was the eldest girl but there was one missing between them.

You tapped your uncles shoulder discreetly, he hummed without taking his eyes from in front of him. “There’s a boy missing, the second eldest. Why is he not in lineup with his family?” You questioned silently, watching the king and his old friend reunite, knowing their loud voices would drown out you and your fathers whispers. “Lady Catelyn is not fond of the bastard boy, he's seen as a burden to her. Look beyond the lineup” he answered just as quietly. You frowned at that, you knew what it was like not to be wanted by your family. Blood or not, but your father always made sure you were known as his daughter proudly. He wouldn’t ever dare to hide you no matter how high or low born your guests were. How can you hate a child before he even does anything to deserve your hate?

You took your uncles advice looking beyond the line up, and that’s when you saw him, what they say about him is right, he does look more of a Stark than Robb. He was handsome both brothers were but Jon carried himself differently. Like he was waiting to be seen, accepted. His dark eyes met yours and your heart skipped a beat, he looked to be observing you much like you were doing him. Your long held eye contact must’ve been caught by your uncle who light nudged you. “Careful little lioness” he warned. With that you broke your eye contact with him to look at your uncle. You weren’t sure what he meant but you knew it’d resurface later on.

Cersei greeted the lord and lady after the king, though it wasn’t as warm as his, Cersei had a way of making every moment more tense than it had to be. “Where’s the imp?” The youngest Stark girl said catching you and Cersei’s attention, she turned around and walked toward you and your uncle “where is our brother, go find the little monster” she said to your uncle. You suppressed an eye roll, though your father was your father he still felt to revel in his younger years, though you weren’t sure how he was able to slip passed everyone and escape to whatever it was he was doing.

Later that evening at the feast you were sat alone, much like always unless your father was near. You made effort to search for Jon, and was quickly dissatisfied when he was nowhere in your sights. A loud shriek broke you from your thoughts “Arya! It’s not funny she always does this” you looked over and almost snorted when you saw lady Sansa with food on her face. Your best guess was Arya decided to use her face as target practice.

You weren’t blind to the looks she and your cousin had been sending each other and you guessed the little Stark was feeling mischievous. You caught sight of the oldest Stark boy cutting his laugh short due to the look his mother gave him, he got up walking over to Arya picking her up from her seat and muttering “time for bed” he met eyes with you and sent you a friendly smile, you returned his smile with nod in acknowledgement.

Farther into the night you found yourself wandering around the castle before dinner and ended up on the training grounds. A low grunt caught your attention, you were sure everyone was readying themselves for dinner who would be at the training grounds this late. It was a boy. “So its you” you spoke, catching his attention, he paused his actions turning towards you with a confused expression before he straightened himself up, “My lady are you lost, i can esc-“ you shook your head “i am not lost lord snow-“ ”excuse me My lady, i am not a lord” he put his head down.

You tilted your head at him “you are more of a lord than i am a lady” you told him truthfully. He stared at you in silence, you looked around not noting anyone else “you are alone?” You questioned. He nodded “yes My lady.” He answered. “Would you mind accompanying me, My Lord?” You tilted your head at him giving him the slightest doe eyes. He hadn’t given you a reaction you expected but you did see the blush littering his cheeks. “Of course My lady, where are you off to?”

”I'm just out for a night stroll, it's good I found you, from what I’ve heard you're handy with a sword so I needn’t be on high guard anymore” you told him as you resumed walking. He followed right next to you “do you not have a guard” he questioned looking around to see if there were any men far behind “much to the dismay of my father, no. I can take care of myself but I don't always like to.” You said moving your goat to the side to show the sword you have stashed.

He looked intrigued by it. “It was my grandfathers i think, my father gave it to me. He said it was the last he could find of my real family.” You frowned. “You're from a high born family, that sword is made of valyrian steel” he said pointing to your sword that was back safely hidden behind your coat. “I am not sure, father won't tell me where he found it, he says he’ll tell me when i'm ready. Anyway enough of me, what about you” you asked looking up at him. “What of me?” He asked. “Do you know your mother?”.

He shook his head “even if i did im not so sure it’d change anything” he said frowning, you hated the crease between his brows. His face showed years of neglect and hatred he endeared from lady Stark and you couldn’t help but to begin to hate her for him. Suddenly you felt no need to continue talking of family, you noticed he didn’t have his furs from earlier that day on anymore. “Are you cold My Lord?” You asked gently. It was as if he had just realized he didn’t have his furs as he looked down at his attire. “We can go to my chambers and warm you, its not very far from here.” You told him.

Jon blushed at the thought “no i shouldn’t it wouldn’t be appropriate, but if you would like me to escort you-” you giggled cutting his sentence short “very noble Lord snow, yes please escort me to my chambers” you smiled, Jon nodded placing a hand on your lower back leading you further into the castle. The short walk was filled with quiet and easy conversation.

You were almost disappointed when you reached your chambers and your conversation was cut short. “Would you like to come in?” You asked, Jon paused wanting to say yes but not wanting to upset lady Caitlyn if she ever found out. “I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night knowing i sent you off while your nearly freezing” you tried to persuade him. he shook his head “it would not be appropriate“ “Jon please” you begged “just a few minutes”.

Jon sighed praying to the gods hoping no one saw what he was about to do. He entered your chambers and let out a breath at the warmth. The atmosphere in the room was quiet and gentle. You removed your furs having no further need for them at the moment and placed yourself on your bed. “May i ask a question?” You asked him softly. He broke his stare from the fire and turned to you with a gentle ‘hmm’ “If you feel you do not belong here, then where do you belong?”

Jon felt weird, having never been asked that question before he felt taken aback. He lulled over his answer for a few seconds “at the wall, with my uncle and others like me” he looked down to his clasped hands, seemingly deep in thought. Your heart broke for the boy, he truly felt in some way he wasn’t welcome in his own home. “Are you ready to make that sacrifice? To never have a wife, a family. To pledge your life?” You asked.

He frowned further “No woman will wed to a bastard. My life will have more meaning there than here” He said. You tilted your head “i don't think that to be true, i think some time sooner or later your family will need you here, and if Amy woman is daft enough not to accept a marriage proposal from you then she didn't deserve you in the first place.

After that Jon excused himself from your chambers, your words weighing heavy on his shoulders. But his mind was already set, he was joining the night's watch, however that didn’t stop him from repeating your words in his head.

The next morning was when you were finally able to find your father, extremely hungover. “I Missed you yesterday” you said as you came to a halt by his side. “You missed aunt Cersei's fake smiles, uncle Jamie sizing up with lord stark and even worse. Joffrey making eyes with the stark girl.” You rolled your eyes at the last bit. Your father cleared his throat “did i also miss your night stroll with the bastard boy?” He asked.

You froze momentarily, you knew your father wasn’t in a hurry to wed you off, he’d much rather you find love than be in a loveless situation with a man two times your age. But that never stopped him from teasing you about your interests even if its very rare that you have them. “He was just accompanying me to my chambers, father” you spoke looking in every direction but his. He was the only person in the world who could read you like a book. “Ah yes, was he also warming your bed for you?” He turned toward you with a small smile. “You know i would never, i just met the boy”

“love is a fast little creature daughter” he said before walking away.

[mega-ringsandthings-world]

Okay. I know the general consensus is not this, but if Catelyn had been told the truth about Jon from the get go, she would have treated him better. Relatively. Like, she wouldn't have gave him shit for being a bastard or been ice queen bitch stepmother to him, but uh. there would have been other issues. Just think about how having Catelyn aboard the hide-Jon-train would go for one second. For one second. Okay? We are talking about Catelyn fucking Stark nee Tully. And we are also talking about Catelyn fucking Stark nee Tully before the other four kids came along. Just her baby Robb and Ned and Ned's nephew. (and if you don't think that Ned saving Jon from under Robert's nose on a promise to his sister wouldn't make I-released-the- king-slayer-to-bring-back-my-daughters-Catelyn fall so hard in love with him her head is still ringing fifteen years later you are LYING to yourselves) So think mother gothel. She would have micromanaged the shit out of Jon's life and upbringing. Ned is pretty lax so as security measures go in terms of Jon, but Cat? Winterfell would get turned into FBI headquarters. Vibe checks at the door and retina scanners and Jon and Robb have a praetorian guard on their cradles. Yeah she'd be cool to Jon in public as he grows but in private she's frantically brushing his hair every night looking for whites. Holding him up to the light to check for hints of purple in his eyes. As they get older she namedrops bastard a lot but secretly actively fosters a relationship between Jon and the other kids because Catelyn-Sansa-will-be-queen-of-the-seven-kingdoms-Stark nee Tully knows about the pact of Ice and Fire and having one of the last Targs bouncing around is tickling the politician in her. That being said she institutes a book ban on Targ history and is always on Ned's ass about them playing dragons. When Arya is gets old enough she makes it a point to put her and Jon next to each other at all times. Jon getting a direwolf are goddammed holy blessing to her. When Robert's dump ass comes to visit she's having a conniption about Jon being recognized and nearly locks his ass in the crypts until he decides of his own free will to sit in the cheap seats before she blows a gasket. She hates the Wall idea because who the Fuck is going to watch this kid as well as she's been doing for the past fifteen years? WHO? If she had found out about Aemon being up there she's have blown up castle black. Jon, who has had to deal with this shit since attaining spatial awareness tries to get Benjen to let him take his night's watch vows at Winterfell's weirwood. Man wants OUT. He can't deaal with tiger mom ass no more. When he comes to visit Bran she slips and says something cryptic and weirdly affectionate and it puts his ass in a tailspin all the way to the Wall.

Like, I know people think it'd go more downhill if she knew about Jon but why? Boring. Uninspired. Booooo. Get fun with it.

[goodqueenaly]

Bit of a niche question, how would noble children be socialised with their peers rather than servants and retainers? Bran of course knows the Cerwyn heir very well who is half a day away and has family at Winterfel besides and Catelyn wonders if Jeyne used to be playmates with the squires from Casterly Rock who were murdered. I assume that noble children would occasionally be brought along to big occasions but would there be less incidental ways to bind the next generation early?

The first and likely most common way is probably exactly what you mention - visits between aristocratic families. You mention the Cerwyns visiting with the Starks relatively frequently, given the physical closeness of Castle Cerwyn to Winterfell, but it’s also worth noting that Halman and Benfred Tallhart did the same, as Bran remembers during that same event. Likewise, Arya recalls visiting White Harbor twice with Lord Eddard , while Catelyn recalls visiting the Twins as a girl; neither mentions specifically meeting, say, Wylla and Wynafryd or the many children and grandchildren Walder was already accumulating even in Catelyn’s youth, but I think it would have been virtually impossible for the aristocratic in each such instance not to have met and interacted with each other. These visits not only would give the adults the chance to talk business and renew bonds of fealty or alliance, but also potentially lay the groundwork for future dynastic pairings or continuations of such alliances between their children; in turn, interactions between these children might often be in such situations specifically targeted or formalized as much as they were personal (think of, say, young Alys Karstark being paired in dances with Robb Stark, or Joffrey and Tommen practicing in the yard with Robb and Bran).

(Which is not to say these interactions would always be positive - think of, say, Sam’s visit to the Arbor in his youth, and his cruel treatment by the Redwyne twins.)

Fostering, too, provides a very natural (by Westerosi standards) means for aristocratic children to socialize with peers outside of their immediate families. The examples of fostering throughout the series (and the history of Westeros) are too numerous to list for the purposes of this ask, but it’s worth noting as a very general point that fostered children are raised as virtual siblings with the children of the household in which they stay. While it’s certainly possible for fostered children to be relatives of the families with whom they are fostered, the dynastic distinction between these children allows for early lessons in how to identify, address, and interact with members of other families, not to mention how to (potentially) build friendships - think of, say, Robert and Ned in the Eyrie, or the pro-greenlands King Harmund II Hoare. (Which, again, is far from a guarantee - think of Jaime’s linger criticism of his fellow page and squire at Crakehall, Merrett Frey.)

Nor is fostering necessarily the only way for members, specifically children, of different Westerosi aristocratic families to find themselves in or around other households. Jeyne Poole and Beth Cassel were (and are) not very high-ranking aristocrats, certainly not equal to the Starks in terms of position, but as the scions of (I think) hereditary aristocratic officer families of Winterfell, Beth and especially Jeyne were seen as entirely suitable companions to the Starks, specifically Sansa. Too, if we take, say, Casterly Rock as an example, we can see a household of mixed aristocratic families (and, by extension, children): Kevan’s sons and daughter would have grown up not just with their cousin Tyrek Lannister, but also (thanks to Genna’s refusal to live away from Casterly Rock) some of their Frey cousins, “Red” Walder Frey and the grandsons of Cleos Frey - all descendants of Tytos Lannister, but from distinct branches (and, for the Freys, distinct paternal dynasties), which would strengthen those establish bonds.

Too, while not typical, it is nevertheless possible to have children brought into the household of a royal court. Magraery’s household as queen, for example, has included not just adult aristocratic Reach women but also younger girls from her homeland: not only her extended Tyrell cousins Megga, Elinor, and Alla but also little Alysanne Bulwer, children who may never have interacted with one another in their ordinary upbringings but would now have the opportunity to do so. Likewise, King Jaehaerys and Queen Alysanne took into their household their half-sister Jocelyn Baratheon when she was only six years old, to be raised as essentially an extra child of the royal couple within the household at King’s Landing (though of course the extent to which F&B, and by extension GRRM, ignores Jocelyn as a character never ceases to make me mad).

These are all examples rather than a finite list, of course, and it’s probably also worth noting that from an early age, aristocratic Westerosi children are prepared, through work and play, to recognize and interact with their social equals and superiors. We see from the experience of the Stark children that the study of heraldry is a key part of their education, setting them up early to recognize other families by their dynastic sigils. Too, one of aristocratic Westeros’ familiar childhood games is “come-into-my-castle”, a game which Tyrion remembers is “meant to teach [highborn children] courtesy, heraldry, and a thing or two about their lord father's friends and foes”. So from the first, highbor Westerosi children are socialized to interact with the wider (blue-blood) world around them.

Of course, it me, so I have to mention what this ask immediately made me think of from The Royal Succession, book four of The Accursed Kings:

The most surprising aspect of this dinner was the number of children present; for Eudes of Burgundy, having made it a condition of his own attendance that his niece, Jeanne of Navarre, should be present as some reparation for the outrage done her at the Assembly, the Count of Poitiers had decided to bring his three girls, the Count of Valois his latest offspring by his third marriage, the Count of Evreux his son and daughter, who were still of an age to play with dolls, the Dauphin of Viennois his little Guigues, the betrothed of the Regent’s third daughter, and the Duke of Burgundy his three children. There was continual confusion over Christian names; Blanches, Isabelles, Charleses and Philippes abounded; when someone cried ‘Jeanne!’ six heads turned together.

[jonsnowunemploymentera]

Thinking of the most prominent succession struggles in asoiaf and realizing that a good majority of them are not even because of some evil bastard usurping their trueborn relative. Alys Karstark’s dilemma is caused by her uncle wanting to forcibly marry her and steal her birthright. Renly is Stannis’ trueborn brother and yet he declares himself king despite Stannis being older. Euron is Balon’s trueborn brother and Asha’s uncle and yet look at what he did. Littlefinger wants to use a trueborn Harry Harding to take over Sweetrobin’s rights (though not so openly). And the Dance of the Dragons was between a trueborn pair of brother and sister. And if we are to see a repeat of it, it will be between a trueborn daughter of the last Targaryen king (Dany) and a trueborn son (Aegon) of the previous crown prince.

That’s what makes the whole “Jon was a threat to Catelyn’s children” argument so frustrating because people act as if Jon was a ticking time bomb that was going to blow at any minute, purely on account of him being a bastard. When historically, we’re given much more precedent for trueborn relatives to usurp each other.

This frustrating argument arises out of two problems:

ASOIAF stans are not engaging as critically with the text as they should be. Catelyn’s historical evidence lies in the series of Blackfyre Rebellions which happened after a legitimized bastard rose up against his brother. But context is key here. Not only were there several factors that led to this fallout (e.g., Daemon being given the conqueror’s sword Blackfyre, anti-Dornish sentiment not working in Daeron’s favor, Daeron himself being a suspected bastard, Daemon’s overall popularity, etc), but people ignore Bloodraven (a BASTARD!) who supported his trueborn brother’s claim during this series of conflicts. Daemon did not rebel because all bastards are inclined to treachery and all bastards bring evil to those around them. If any bastards raised near trueborns are a threat to the trueborn’s inheritance, then why not Bittersteel? Why not Shiera? Why didn’t other Stark bastards rebel against their trueborn siblings? Several factors led to the conflict specifically between Daemon and Daeron. Instead of taking Catelyn’s filtered history at face value, we should instead recognize that Daemon was given legal basis to push for his claim (after a series of events that symbolically recognized him as the worthy and true heir) as he was now a legitimized son, and succession struggles are, more oft than not, likely to happen between recognized legitimate competing claims. And here’s the thing, Ned Stark at no point indicated that he was going to give Jon legitimacy in the North. And he never indicated that he would give it to Jon over Robb. On the contrary, everyone knew that Robb was the heir. Robb was the one being given lessons, Robb was the one helping Ned attend to visiting lords, Robb was the one who would inherit Ice, etc. By Alys’ account in ADWD, preparations were being made for Robb’s future (NOT for Jon, who was largely ignored). There was no opportunity for Jon to pose any threat to Robb or his children because Ned did not give him legitimacy and he did not allow him to gain backing with the Northern lords. Aegon IV created Daemon and his subsequent rebellion(s), but Ned Stark did not do the same with Jon. Despite Catelyn treating Jon as a walking crisis center, there’s little evidence to the effect. In fact, we might as well say that Bran or Rickon or any of Sansa’s or Arya’s sons would pose an even bigger threat to Robb’s legacy than Jon would, you know given historical precedent and all that.

Treating Jon’s mere existence as one that inherently comes with dire consequences for “le poor trueborns” plays into bastardphobia, which is actually in world bigotry (and grrm considers Jon to be a marginalized individual on account of his bastardy). Saying that Jon is a threat to the Stark kids is saying that all bastards are threats to trueborns but like….so are the trueborns. History, actual hiatory, shows us that trueborns are a bigger threat to each other. But no one is saying “Bran is a threat to Robb’s kids” even though there is precedent. Bran is also getting a lordling’s education just as Robb is, and Bran is allowed to engage with the upper class on important occasions and gain visibility just as Robb is, and Bran is even expected to command his own castle and men (which would even give him ability to stake his claim). So why isn’t he a threat? Instead, Jon is the one who is singled out - because he’s a bastard. He’s being singled out because Catelyn said he should be singled out, despite there being little actual evidence to his supposed incoming usurpation. Which is ironic because the literal purpose of his story is to critique these bigoted views. Jon is just as honorable and good and kind as any other trueborn son, if not more so. And we have seen him sacrificing his own happiness for his siblings (e.g., the direwolf pups and refusing Winterfell because he will not usurp Sansa’s rights). It’s one thing for Catelyn to show ignorance, but we as readers should know better because we have a full picture and not only do we have an understanding of the history being cited by Catelyn (and what is being purposefully ignored), we also know Jon. So we should be saying, “wait no, there’s no indication that Jon is any more a threat than any one of Ned’s sons”.

It is understandable (but not justifiable tbh) that Catelyn is biased against Jon; he is the ever present product of her husband’s affair. But that’s just it, she’s biased. So she has a biased application of history. And she has a biased (and bigoted) view of Jon’s place in it. We as readers have a full picture though. So shouldn’t we be having more nuanced dialogue regarding this instead of taking her biased word for it?

[agentrouka-blog]

Super long ask, I hope this is okay to share with you. I've been reading through your speculation tags and so many other Jonsa blogs and everything just CLICKS.

I think George wasnt lying when he said the show end point is more or less how the books will end too. I really do think it will be as close to that as it can get, with how much GOT cut out/changed. Arya sailing, Bran and Sansa as Summer King and QITN, Cersei and Daenerys dead and Jon ending up far North is pretty much guaranteed to happen. It's just going to be set up very differently. Based on the theories, metas and speculations you have posted and reblogged, and the foreshadowing istumpysk highlighted in the reread project, I tried summarising what would likely happen in TWOW and ADOS.

Vale arc: Tourney starts, Brienne arrives and - similar to the tavern scene in the show - tries to get Alayne to leave with her but she refuses, Sansa (infamously) vows to become SS again and take back the North - which I feel like will be either because of her finding out about Jeyne/Arya or maybe something happening to Sweetrobin (he'll survive though), she'll then actively try to escape from LF. I think the Tourney will span several days and Harry dies relatively early, Shadrich tries something and Brienne possibly duels him, then the mountain clans attack and Sansa tries to negotiate w/ them/offer food, something goes wrong and she'll escape to the Wall with Brienne.

Stannis burns Shireen, possibly gets murdered by one of the Seaworths?

Because of his warging Jon doesn't really die, his body gets stored in the ice cells, he'll be "resurrected" (i'm unsure how), and he'll struggle with feeling and behaving like a human again. Him and Sansa reunite (I will die on the hill that the show got that thing right and they will be the first Starks to reunite), (possible Jonsa but they wont act out on feelings), and maybe also take back Winterfell w/ the Knights of the Vale (unpopular opinion apparently. But I think it would suck if Stannis were the one to take Winterfell).

Arya leaves the faceless men, meets Lady Stoneheart, possibly (😭) kills her, Nymeria (and Brynden?) free Edmure and Jeyne Westerling. I think, similar to Jon and Sansa being the mist distant Starks but the first Starks to reunite, it would be so interesting if the least Tully looking Starkling was the one who ends up reuniting with the Tully uncles.

Howland Reed and Robb's will arrive at WF, with Jon having to choose between being legitimised as a Stark but stealing his cousins' claim or having his true parentage be revealed

Cersei somehow gets rid of the faith. Tommen is foreshadowed to fall to his death and Myrcella likely dies as a consequence of the Dorne storyline. The Sand Snakes infiltrate Cersei's council.

The Greyjoys ally with Daenerys, Daenerys marries Euron?, kills Victarion? Victarion possibly dies because of that horn?

Aegon takes over Kings Landing, allies with the Riverlands, the Reach, Dorne (possibly marries Arianne?), + Golden Company

Cersei flees to Casterly Rock, Cersei as YMBQ, Jaime as Valonqar

Daenerys arrives, starts Dance 2.0 with Aegon, Aegon takes out or possibly claims one dragon, Tyrion ping pongs between both sides

Arya and Sansa are likely to be in conflict with one another at first (the letter Sansa wrote to Catelyn will likely be used - why else have Robb specificallypoint iut that he left it at home?), and perhaps the show was also right when it had them team up to take out LF (giant in a castle made of snow)

Jon goes South, possibly bonds with Aegon only to see him be taken out by their aunt, Daenerys burns down KL, Arya possibly takes out Daenerys

Bran makes some sort of deal to get rid of the Others, gives up his "powers" to atone for the actions of his ancestors, gets elected King by a council, takes ancestral seat in Harrenhaal

Arianne rules (a possibly independent?) Dorne, Asha as ruler of Iron Islands or whatever is left of its people/possibly displaced and being given land in the North?, Sansa as Lady/QITN, Jon as Lord of the Gift, Jonsa possibly left open ended, Arya sails across the world, Arya and or Brienne as independent agent(s) helping out people in need, Rickon dead (... or Bran's heir... or Septon or Maester...).

Tyrion either: Lannister heir (maybe? with his tongue cut out?) or sent to the Wall. Probably the former.

Like I said, this would definitely be in line with the show ending but unlike the show, here the characters actually would have full arcs and it would be bittersweet rather than just bitter. The dance 2.0 won't be a Jonerys romance and instead will mirror the conflict between Aegon and Rhaenyra, and Daenerys's arc will be tragic and fascinating and her death will be a mirror to Maegor and a direct consequence of what she does to the Smallfolk. All the Starklings (well.... we'll see about Rickon) are left alive, with important and fulfilling but challenging roles. They're all separated but they can and likely will reunite. All the big houses will be ruled by illegitimate children, women, and people with disabilities. No more ice threat and no more fire threat and largely no more real magic. No curtain of light, no YA team up, and a somewhat happy and satisfying and realistic end that includes an actually change to the status quo. It just makes so much sense!!! It feels so right!!!

Hi there! And sorry for the delay!

Isn't it SO satisfying when the books suddenly take on this coherent, stringent logic, all because of what jonsa represents? :)

I broadly agree with your predictions and timeline. I'm more of a jonsa optimist and truther, but otherwise... yeah, it just makes sense, doesn't it?

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

I really dislike the view that Ned Stark played favourites between his daughters or that he had a bad relationship with his eldest one because it isn't supported by the text.

Sansa has fond memories of her father. Yes, she's closer with her mother but that's because a. of her interests b. it's plot relevant for Sansa be the closest kid to Catelyn considering the characters she interacts with ( her mother's relatives and Littlefinger). Ned never thinks negatively of Sansa and he never unfavorable compares her to her younger sister. Even when he talked with Arya after the Trident incident, he simply said that the sisters should support each other ( you need her as much as she needs you), he didn't pick a side between them.

Just like Sansa is closer to her mother, Arya is closer to her father and that's again is because of her interests. Arya enjoys observing him performing his lord duties, so she spends much time around him. Sansa isn't interesting in that, so she doesn't . Again, a matter of personal interests instead of one of them having a bad relationship with their father or feel neglected by him.

[horizon-verizon]

Wills do in fact exist in the world of Westeros. And more specifically they’ve been plot points in regards to chosen heirs. Robb Stark has an entire debate with Catelyn about choosing his heir. Sansa is ostensibly his heir with Bran and Rickon considered deceased. And yet Robb and Catelyn believe they can skip over Sansa by naming another heir. Why would they believe this possible if there isn’t precedent for a King choosing his heirs ?

“Young, and a king,” he said. “A king must have an heir. If I should die in my next battle, the kingdom must not die with me. By law Sansa is next in line of succession, so Winterfell and the north would pass to her.” His mouth tightened. “To her, and her lord husband. Tyrion Lannister. I cannot allow that. I will not allow that. That dwarf must never have the north.” 

“No,” Catelyn agreed. “You must name another heir, until such time as Jeyne gives you a son.” She considered a moment. “Your father’s father had no siblings, but his father had a sister who married a younger son of Lord Raymar Royce, of the junior branch. They had three daughters, all of whom wed Vale lordlings. A Waynwood and a Corbray, for certain. The youngest... it might have been a Templeton, but...”

“Arya’s gone, the same as Bran and Rickon, and they’ll kill Sansa too once the dwarf gets a child from her. Jon is the only brother that remains to me. Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as King in the North. I had hoped you would support my choice.”

We also know that even lords can also seemingly choose their heirs and even have stipulations for those heirs. Why ? Because it’s actually a plot point in The Sworn Sword. Rohanne Webber (Tywin Lannister’s paternal grandmother) is her father’s named heir but there’s a stipulation, she has to be married or she will lose her rights to inheritance and it will instead go to her cousin Wendell Webber:

“Her lord father’s will demands it. Lord Wyman wanted grandsons to carry on his line. When he sickened he tried to wed her to the Longinch, so he might die knowing that she had a strong man to protect her, but Rohanne refused to have him. His lordship took his vengeance in his will. If she remains unwed on the second anniversary of her father’s passing, Coldmoat and its lands pass to his cousin Wendell.”

How is that a possible stipulation that Rohanne takes extremely seriously if not for the fact that inheritance is not clear cut and can be overridden by a will ? And this evidences further that a Lord or King can choose their own heirs.

Maegor disinherited Jaehaerys and made Rhaena’s daughter, Aerea, his heir.

Jaehaerys went against Andal inheritance tradition to pick Baelon over Rhaenys.

The lords at the Great Council doubled down on that decision by picking Viserys over Laenor which Jaehaerys upheld.

Aegon III’s regents pick Rhaena as his heir over Baela, despite the fact that Baela is the elder twin, because she’s too willful and wild and won’t accept a marriage pact they made for her.

Jeyne Arryn picks a distant cousin to be her heir instead of a closer relative with more traditional claim, the King’s regents back her decision.

Aerys II picked Viserys to be his heir when Rhaegar’s son Aegon was the traditional choice.

Doran Martell planned to make his son Quentyn his heir because he wanted his daughter Arianna to be queen conosrt of the Seven Kingdoms, she doesn’t know this and just assumes he’s pick Quentyn over her.

Walder Frey talks about picking his unborn son as his heir over his dozen or so adult sons.

Rodrick Harlaw offers to make Asha his heir to stop her from participating in the Kingsmoot.

Stannis offered to make Renly his heir instead of Shireen.

You will love this video by the former ozymalek, anon (now they are Youtube and Tiktok's "PhoenixAshes"). It basically speaks of exactly what you emphasize for Westeros--how heir voluntary designation was a real thing in real medieval Europe.

[fromtheboundlesssea]

Listening to A Game of Thrones again. I only just finished Jon I and I just had a thought that I have no wish to expand upon at this moments, but maybe I will later or someone else could if they wish.

Starks and Targaryens

Lyanna / Ned / Catelyn -> Aemma / Viserys / Alicent

Lyanna and Aemma die giving birth to a child wanted by the father only for their only living child to be the gender the father of the child did not want. Both women haunt the story even though they are relegated to very brief mentions in their “historical” records. Both die due to a Targaryen man’s irrational belief in prophecy.

Ned and Viserys attempts to keep the peace between the two halves of their family, however, their first “child” causes tensions with his wife and other children and there is a divide between them. Both treat their first children above the typically accepted position their birth would have entitled them to.

Catelyn and Alicent are married to men and constantly feel compared to a woman who is dead or gone and feels threatened by the protective nature of their husband towards their first child. Both have a child who is disabled, only for their husbands to not care. No one was punished, even lightly, for the blinding of Aemond, and Viserys brushed the incident away. Ned left Catelyn alone with Bran, who could have very well died while he was away and chose his duty to Jon Arryn, someone dead, above his son. Both women die with vengeance for their dead children on their lips.

Jon / Robb -> Rhaenyra / Aegon II

Jon and Rhaenyra are their father’s eldest child and is raised above the station many children in their positions are given (Jon as a bastard and Rhaenyra as a girl). Their position within the family puts their stepmothers on edge and their positions also serve as a vague threat to their half-siblings. They both leave their homes and “set up court” elsewhere, Jon at Castle Black and Rhaenyra in Dragonstone, and stay away from the main fight of the series. Both were born the opposite gender their fathers wanted.

Robb and Aegon II both picked up their crowns after the urging of familial figures that discussed the danger their siblings are threatened with. Both lost control of their anger once their siblings began dying. Neither man seemed insistent on a crown and do not think of their other sibling as a danger to themselves despite the warnings of their mother. Both are betrayed by allies.

Benjen -> Daemon

These are more foils. Benjen is everything that Daemon is not and vice versa. Benjen sends himself into exile and remains there and serves the King and his brother with honor. He also tries to look out for his nephew and help raise him to be a proper man for the time he is with him. Daemon is constantly exiled for his actions but always comes back and leads his niece astray.

Jon / Sansa -> Aegon III / Jaehaera

Both Jon and Aegon III are made heir by the will of the previous king so that a woman won’t be given the throne (albeit for different reasons). Both have a complicated relationship with symbol of their house. They are traumatized by the death of a woman who had great influence over them (Ygritte and Rhaenyra). Both were never meant to be put in royal positions of authority, Jon being both a bastard and a second son, and Aegon with three older brothers and the son of the losing side.

Sansa and Jaehaera are both girls deeply traumatized by witnessing the death of beloved male relatives who are wrongly beheaded right in front of them. The two girls serve as keys to their houses and inheritance and are used for that inheritance despite being willed away from such an inheritance. While incited to violence, both are reluctant to such murder and do not enact it. They serve as a representative to sides of a war that are not well liked in the current ruling dynasty.

Ironically, if Jonsa were to happen it would be a true reconciliation of two sides of the similar conflicts that originated with the questions of inheritance.

Lannisters and Strongs

Tywin -> Lyonel

Both men are considered to be great politicians. However, their children undermined their political influence and reveal that both men are not actually as great as they are initially believed to be. Tywin does not think about the long term. Lyonel allows his son to put them all in danger by even allowing such rumors to swirl. If Lyonel were smart, he would have nipped those rumors in the bud not only to protect his son, but to not add shaky foundations for Rhaenyra’s reputation.

Jaime / Cersei -> Harwin / Rhaenyra

Both men have affairs with royal women and sire children that look like them. Both men have three bastards destined to die due to the greed of the women they love who can and will never acknowledge them as the fathers of their children.

Cersei and Rhaenyra do not wish to have children with their husbands, for different reasons, and often put their own sexual pleasure above their positions at court and their own allies. Both women are threatened by younger women who could usurp their place and often belittle them for the sake of their own vanity. Both greatly fear their younger brothers and what hand they might take in their deaths.

Tyrion / Larys

Both men are the “lesser” sons of their fathers and are disfigured—earning nicknames for said disfigurement. Both men are very resentful towards their siblings and either enact or wish for the destruction of their houses.

[atopvisenyashill]

It is me your dear jonsa neutral acquaintance to say that I do not think it is damning that Jon doesn’t react to the marriage. I understand why so many people see jonsa in the stories and why they find it compelling. I think the ultimate rebuttal to that is just to be like. So what? They weren’t close as kids. Jon doesn’t have feelings for her at the time but that doesn’t mean they can not or will not develop feelings for each other. It just seems like such a nothing criticism unless it’s specifically meant to counter the idea of a pre canon crush but I don’t think that’s what you nor many other jonsas are suggesting. From what I’ve seen, book jonsa is based on potential, with the lack of a close and well-defined relationship creating an opening for an interesting romance dynamic, and on narrative parallels and hints, not on the way the two characters currently think about each other. Many in the anti camp cannot seem to grasp this even though they understand it as a basis for jxd

YES exactly that. There definitely are jonsas that believe in like ~the pre canon crush~ and I’ve definitely read fics for that, and I’m not here to yuck anyone’s yum but I would say when talking about Canon Jonsa there’s general consensus that the lack of familiarity as children is set up for a potential romantic plot - reuniting with the sibling you were least closest to, developing this bond based in shared trauma that deepens in a way neither of them are comfortable with, and the parentage reveal setting the stage for them to ~be allowed to be together. As you say it’s not dissimilar from jxd - again, a relative you were not close to being the one you wind up reconnecting with, developing a bone based in shared trauma that deepens, and the parentage reveal being some sort of ~romantic confirmation. It's always been so goofy to me that one of these ships is seen as not valid analysis of the themes and the other is when they are based on essentially the exact same thing which is really opaque hints and potential lol.

And you're definitely right that the rebuttal to his non reaction is essentially “who gives a shit” lmao. As I’ve said, we also don't see his reaction to Robb's murder (and like god would I have loved to see Jon's initial reaction to Robb and Catelyn dying together), and he's in the middle of a very tricky conversation with Stannis he's not about to start antagonizing him by snapping about how her name is Sansa Stark not Sansa Lannister. And also like, beyond that, again, as I've reread I've noticed a lot re: marriage and hostage-bride situations and one thing I find fascinating (and disturbing) is that these marriages are taken as valid - you can't get them annuled or anything like that, they're not considered less valid simply for being done at the sharp end of a sword. And while Jon is like, wildly progressive for a man in Terros, I do think it's very likely that his ~progressivism~ would manifest not as "Sansa is a child bride and that marriage isn't valid nor is her identity subsumed into a husband's" but more as "Whomever she is married to, Sansa comes before me in the line of succession and I will not usurp her simply for being married to someone who sucks - and if she decides to murder him for hostage-marrying her, well, he deserved it" because "it's fine for a wife to murder her hostage-husband" is something we see said multiple times and especially in the North and amongst the wildlings (but also - Robb says this! I believe Rodrik says this as well in a discussion of Donella Hornwood's marriage to Ramsay! the rule is that the forced marriage is fine but so is a wife murdering that man for forced marrying her! deranged!!). And also like, he's just got so many fucking things on his mind re: his own status as a bastard, the situation at he Wall, and the overreaching war, like, why are we hung up on this lmao, he's stressed and he's about to be murdered omg.

[ladystoneboobs]

@buttercuparry #in my experience I don't think there are many people who would say Smallwood is comparable to Catelyn as Arya's mother figure#in fact Arya herself once says that she doesn't want anyone but her mom#mostly when people do bring up smallwood it is because of the kindness that Arya experiences after harrenhal#yes there's also a sentiment of whether Catelyn treating Arya a bit more gently would have#solved some of their misunderstandings and lady Smallwood is brought up as an example in those times but I don't think that is to say#that Smallwood should replace catelyn! that's never going to happen...#I also think there's a difference between Smallwood and Catelyn in the way grrm writes#the forced to bath and insistence into girl things carry annoyance but not shame

yeah, ik people aren't saying lady smallwood should end up as arya's mother, much less that arya would want her to. i am responding to the idea that she is better by being kinder to arya than her own mother ever was. ofc arya feels no shame with her, a complete stranger! why should she care what lady smallwood thinks of her? it's like the end of arya i agot with her saying it was worse to find both septa mordane and her mother in her room after skipping out on needlework. does anyone reallly think cat was even harsher than mordane? no? then the difference is her mother's judgment is what truly matters to her. ik in my own experience the thoughts of relatives whose opinion i care about, however they express themselves, affect me much more than even blunter judgment from those whose opinion of me idc about. arya wanted her mother's approval bc that was her own parent, her only mother, while she disliked mordane and would have given up on her approval as an impossible task years before. lady smallwood was certainly a lot kinder than the septa, but arya had even less reason to care about her approval.

yeah, i do think cat should have taken more care with her words, as i pointed out with "could be pretty" quote, but do y'all really think the only reason arya doesn't like gowns is bc she wasn't asked nicely enough to wear them? that sounds pretty close to the claim that she could be great at needlework with a better teacher. why can't we just say she's not gifted at needlepoint and doesn't enjoy it and shouldn't have to? why must we care about arya's potential needleskill when she can do basic sewing and has many other skills unique to her? arya's "wilfulness" and gender non-conformity are key, intrinsic parts of her, idt that was born all bc catelyn started out only being gentle with sansa's hair and dress while always harshly ordering arya about concerning the same. kids fight with their mothers, and are more liable to act out with them than with other people's mothers. i used to fight with my mom every single day about brushing my hair, and i can tell you asking me gently would not have helped, she was not choosing to have to chase me around the house every morning. does anyone think wolf-blooded tomboyish lyanna also had a mean mom?

#there's also the situation of being a hostage to bwb and still wearing bolton rags and smallwood saying that it is a death sentence

well, yeah, i'm not saying she shouldn't have been taken out of those clothes at all. it's just that 1 bath should have been sufficient to wash the stink off her and it would have been more practical to put her in boy's clothes from the start, or at least after the acorn dress. i'm not trying to hate on lady smallwood, i like her too, but the point is, when comparing ravella smallwood with catelyn stark, it must be noted that yes, only one is arya's mother, not just in the sense that arya loves her mother and only wants her, but bc children act differently with their actual parents than with other adults, strangers, parents of other children. arya didn't care about the lady's early attempts to bond with her through talk of needlework and her daughter, it was only at the end of the chapter when she spoke of her dead son that arya felt a connection. idt that one moment is enough to say their interactions were better than any arya had with her actual mother, or that she'd have a better, more easily feminine life if she only had a mother like lady smallwood.

[sigilsongs-a]

(``) muse tags. SANSA

(``) sansa stark . (tag)

[asa-do-your-thing]

Dreams - 1 - Jon

18+ MINORS DNI Jon Snow x F!OC / Robb Stark x F!OC Word Count: 3.3k Masterlist with Fic Warnings - Contains Death, SA and Abuse.  Dividers by @cafekitsune

It had always been relatively crowded in Winterfell when it came to the Stark family, Jon noted. At first it was Lord Eddard, Lady Stark, and Robb, followed by him, Theon Greyjoy, Sansa, Bran, Arya, Rickon… and Lucie.

They had been a rag-tag band of kids, playing, hitting, and chasing each other. Theon had gladly joined their games, yet he, along with Sansa quickly realised that Jon was not a Stark - he was a half-brother at best and a Bastard at worst.

Lucie had never really been a part of the group seeing as she was the last person to join them, yet she was always there to prevent things from getting out of hand. Everyone had given Jon respect when she was present. She was a key player in maintaining an atmosphere of harmony in Winterfell’s spacious halls.

Looking up at her from his distant seat at dinner, Jon thought back to the day where she had joined them. Lord Eddard had told them a few weeks before that they were going to have a new ward; her family had sadly passed away and he graciously allowed her to be taken in with them until she came of age, which was just around the corner.

Lady Lucie Templeton of Ninestars, a distinguished Lady of the Vale. A title befitting her remarkable poise and presence. Jon had envisioned her as resembling an older iteration of Sansa: statuesque, elegant, and, above all, exuding an air of haughtiness and subtle aloofness towards him.

He knew he would forever remember her arrival; gallantly riding into Winterfell astride her untamed black stallion. As her lengthy black locks billowed behind her in the wind, she fearlessly surged through the gates on her steed. Dismounting with the finesse of a seasoned warrior, she strode confidently in his direction. All those present, Jon included, involuntarily retreated to afford her space, captivated by her awe-inspiring presence.

Noticing his stare, she quickly glanced over at him and caught his eye before turning away and exchanging greetings with Lord and Lady Stark. He was struck dumb by how commanding yet beautiful she was in that moment—her dark black eyes glowing with life despite the dire situation she had come from. Using his newfound courage — because only a fool wouldn’t be afraid in her presence — he managed to stammer out a few words of greeting which she returned warmly before moving on to meet the rest of the family.

It hadn’t taken too long for Jon to recognize that Lucie was not like anyone else he had ever met; even the Starks seemed impressed by her strength and poise (though they masked it well). But despite being adopted into this strange new world, Lucie still held onto an air of confidence and self-assurance that made even Jon feel small next to her.

He watched her with a critical eye, noting the way Robb and Theon stared at her with rapt attention, despite her meek and unassuming attempt at conversation. Instead of commanding the room as was expected of her, she averted her gaze and twiddled her fingers nervously while speaking in a barely audible whisper.

Jon had taken such care to make her feel welcome, in those days. He showed her the way around Winterfell, whenever she got lost again, and even taught her to pray to the old gods. Lady Catelyn scolded him for that - Lucie had grown up in the shadow of the Seven, the new Gods. Robb had gone out of his way to try and make her feel comfortable. He offered her a seat by the fire in the Great Hall while he fed her lessons on battles and strategy, noting that Lucie was a fast learner - able to keep up with him even as he tried to pummel her with facts. Theon, though never one for charity, seemed more enthralled by Lucie than any of them. Mostly because Lucie was not the type to laugh at his bad jokes or take part in his pranks - she was always too busy trying to stay one step ahead of everyone else in terms of knowledge.

Jon smiled fondly at his memories; he had been so sure that Lady Lucie would be like Sansa - aloof and haughty. Instead, she had become a dear friend and family member who could hold her own when needed - serving as an equal rather than a subordinate. It was amazing how someone so young could possess such depth and strength — something Jon admired greatly about her.

As the last plate was cleared, he glanced at Lucie and saw her weary eyes plead for solace. It had become a ritual - every night after dinner, while the others scurried off to their beds, she would stay in the library with him. They talked quietly about her struggles and sorrows as she clutched an aged book in her hands and the tears ran like rain down her face. On her first day, when everyone else had gone to bed, she asked meekly if she could stay up and read in the library. Septa Mordane attempted to bar her from doing so, but with one pained glance at Lord Eddard, her request was granted, albeit only if someone stayed with her. Together Jon and Lady Lucie walked into the library, and he felt nothing but pity and sadness for this brave little girl who had trusted him since the first time they had gone to talk.

That evening, all these moons ago, was something that made Jon cringe when looking back. Robb had tried to console the girl, yet after several unsuccessful attempts he asked for Jon's help. “Jon, nothing I said could get through to her. I offered her a pony, flowers, and new gowns, but she told me to go away. What’s wrong with her? She won’t tell me anything. Should I tell Septa Mordane or my mother?” Robb’s face was pale as he ran his hand through his hair anxiously.

Jon had crept back to the library, his leather belt clattering against the tops of his thighs as he walked. “Robb, do not try to console her. SHe is in mourning for her family and her home. I think you might scare her. Let me handle this.” Robb nodded acknowledgement and Jon entered the library, quietly shutting the door behind him. Lucie was hunched near the window, sobbing away. Robb was right, Jon had thought painfully; he could hear her muffled sobs and it made his heart ache for her. All he wanted was for her to feel some sense of comfort again.

Sitting down next to her, he cleared his throat to announce his presence. She looked up and sighed, wiping her tears and closed her worn book. “Please do not tell me all will be fine and for the love of… of the Gods, do not offer me a damned pony,” she muttered and sniffed.

“Even if I could, I wouldn’t. You have a fine steed yourself; I do not see the need for you to have a pony,” he said matter-of-factly and shifted in his seat, offering her a rag to blow her nose.

Lucie looked up at him, her dark eyes reddened by the tears. Tentatively blowing her nose, she sighed and tucked her feet under herself, hiding them under her lavish skirts. “So, I take it you are Jon Snow.”

He sighed, knowing that what would follow would be her acknowledgement of his status as a Bastard. He knew it all too well; Lady Catelyn had probably told her of that, prior to her arrival. She looked so young, so maybe he could still forgive her. “Indeed, I am, Lady Lucie.”

She had frowned, gently furrowing her thick, dark brows, patting the tears away from her reddened cheeks. “Why do you look like… Like I hurt you?”

Jon was baffled back then. She did not care about his mother, then. He might just start liking her. He gave her a small smile. “Oh, I... uhm…” His words, whatever they would’ve been, were stuck in his throat. “That is my mistake, my Lady. I meant no offense.”

“You are a peculiar man,” she noted, biting her lip, and putting the book to the side. “How could you offend me with your face? I think it is a fine one, I have seen worse.”

A big blush had crept up his cheeks. “I… My lady, I… Thank you.” Silence spread between them. “May I ask why you wished to go into the library and not just to your chambers?”

Now it had been Lucie’s turn to blush, though it seemed more in shame than in bashfulness. “That’s where my mother used to read to me and where we wrote before retiring to our chambers. I know, I know, it sounds childish, I should act like a Lady, but…” Tears welled up in her eyes again and spilled onto her dress.

With a nervous look, she stood up and sat down next to him, resting her head against his shoulder, crying quietly. Jon had decided not to probe, instead looking at the booklet. It didn’t belong to the Stark’s library - it must’ve been one of her own, titled ‘You shall be the best Lady.’ He hugged her, holding her gently, for the longest time, until her tears subsided, and her breath became calm once more. Sniffling, she gently broke free from his hug and gave him a small smile. “Thank you, Jon. I… shall retire now, I think.” To which he nodded, escorting her to her chamber.

Jon watched Lucie's figure slowly fade away down the hallway as darkness crept in, just like it had one year ago at the very same spot. But something was different about her tonight than in the first night. She seemed stronger, more confident as if she was hiding something from him. Should he confront her? He thought back to their conversations and noticed that she had been silent about what was going on with her life lately. He began to worry that maybe she had found out his secret - that terrible, shameful secret about how he touched himself late at night when no one would ever know. The mere thought sent a chill down Jon's spine.

She could not know, nobody could, it'd be the end of him.

He was entranced by the way Lucie had looked at him, with those mysterious dark eyes that seemed to know what he was feeling. Part of him wanted to believe that she felt something for him too- after all, he was the only one she allowed to spend time with her. But then there were moments when he could not help but feel that his own longing for her was deluding himself into seeing signs where there were none. He wished he could make sense of what she thought of him, yet he still could not unravel the complex of feelings between them.

Hells, he could not unravel his own thoughts, after all.

As he made his way back to his own chambers, he found himself lost in thought, replaying their conversation over and over in his mind. Lucie babbled something about Sansa's lady-friend crying and Arya asking her to train mounted shooting and, as always, Septa Mordane's question about her blood, which to her chagrin had still not come.

Jon could not comprehend why she felt so mortified by her own coming of age. She was now an adult at the ripe age of six-and-ten; why did this cause her such humiliation? Though he could somehow understand what she was implying, that everything associated with becoming a full woman was linked to... carnal passions.

He stopped walking for a second, remembering the redness of her cheeks as she talked about it. He shook his head and continued his way, not wanting to dwell on it any longer. He didn't want to assume anything – that was only a recipe for disaster and disappointment.

He was so deep in thought that he didn't even notice the figure standing in the shadows until it was too late.

A hand clamped over his mouth, muffling his cry of surprise. He struggled against the grip, but the person holding him was much stronger than he expected. Panic set in as he realised, he was being dragged away, the darkness swallowing him whole. When they finally stopped, Jon was disoriented and confused. He tried to shake the cobwebs from his head, but it was difficult to focus with the adrenaline pumping through his veins. It took a moment for his eyes to adjust to the dim candlelight of his bedchamber, but when they did, he could not believe what he was seeing.

Lucie stood before him, blushing, and wiping off the sweat from her brow, her hair undone and cascading over her shoulders in waves. She was clad in a simple cotton gown, the kind that the maids wore. Jon felt his heart skip a beat as he suddenly realised what was happening. He was afraid to speak, afraid that if he did, it would shatter the moment and she would disappear like a dream.

"Lucie?" he said confused, his voice cracking. “What on earth?!”

She grinned at him, the candlelight casting a warm glow across her face as she tried fixing the cloak around herself again. "I am sorry for this… unconventional method. I thought that this would be the safest way to be truly alone with you because... I want to talk to you. Without Lady Catelyn spying."

"I am sorry, I didn't mean to upset you or hurt you," Jon muttered and felt his throat tightening, gulping, and trying to swallow back the lump in his throat. How could he feel this way? He should not have felt anything for Lucie as she wrestled him into his room, but there was something thrilling and forbidden about it. It was not like Robb or Theon playing a joke on him - this moment was different. Even though he knew it was wrong, he could not help himself.

She tilted her chin up at him, her glossy black hair cascading down her back. Her voice was firm and determined as she spoke. "No, I am not angry. I want to know what it's like, Jon. What people do when they become intimate with one another. No one ever told me these things, but I trust you. Please tell me what it feels like, what am I supposed to do and how much does it hurt?"

He could feel his heart pounding in his chest. This was wrong - he knew that - yet he could not find the strength to deny her. The drive she had to learn more overshadowed her usual innocence, and there was something in that blazing gaze of hers that made it impossible for him to turn her away.

"Lucie, I do not think-"

"Please," she interrupted, taking a step closer to him. "I trust you, Jon. I know you won't lie to me. No one wanted to tell me and... I am...," her voice faltered, and she nervously bit her lip, sitting down on the foot of his bed, gently scratching Ghost between his fluffy ears. "I feel tens of thousands of things, most of all fear and... I trust you to help me."

Jon's heart was pounding in his chest, his mind racing with a million thoughts at once. He knew that what Lucie was asking was wrong, that he should not be indulging her curiosity in this way. But still, he could not deny the pull he felt towards her. It was as if a part of him had been waiting for this moment, for her to come to him with her questions and her fears.

He took a deep breath and stepped closer to her, his hand reaching out to touch her shoulder. "Lucie, I can't teach you those things," he said softly, trying to keep his voice steady. "It's not right. You are too young, and it's not... it's not something that should be taken lightly."

Her pupils widened with shock, and she gave him an awkward, confused glance. "But why?" she questioned, her voice wavering slightly. "I thought... I thought we had established an atmosphere of trust, considering all I've shared with you."

Jon's heart lurched as he heard the pain in Lucie's voice. He did care for her deeply, far more than he should. But that didn't change the fact that what she was suggesting was both dangerous and wrong.

Taking a shaky step back, he shook his head sadly. "Lucie, you do not know what You are asking of me," he said quietly. "It's not something I can take back once it's done, and it's a decision that should only be made with someone you truly love and whom you plan to spend your life with. You know we can never marry... You are a highborn Lady, and I am just..." His tongue stumbled over the word he wanted to say, knowing that even a whisper of his parentage had the power to shatter their moment.

Lucie stared at him for a long moment, her sharp eyes zigzagging across his face like she was searching for something he could not place. Then she let out an awkward laugh and touched his shoulder with tenderness. She adjusted herself under her nightgown, probably trying to hide the embarrassment that came with their misunderstanding.

"Oh Jon! I only wanted you to talk me through it, not show me!" She said in between giggles as she planted a gentle peck on his stubbly cheek. "You are so imaginative," Biting her lip, she looked away before continuing: "What do you think I am? A hungry harlot looking for prey?" With a suppressed smile, she raised an eyebrow waiting for his response, her cheeks ablaze.

Jon could not help but let out a small laugh at her words, the tension in the room dissipating slightly. "No, no, of course not, Lucie," he said, feeling relieved that she didn't expect more from him. He wanted her to... have flowered, he wanted them to have kissed, he wanted it to be less... dangerous, to be more romantic.

"I am sorry, I just... I didn't want to disappoint you. I know how important this is to you, but it's not something I can do. Not right now, at least. I do not want to lie... I uh..." The heat shot straight back into his head. "I have only ever talked about it, I've yet to... lie with someone." Because I am saving myself for you, I want you, only you, Lucie... the thoughts whirred in his head.

Lucie nodded, her expression softening. "Oh, I understand then," she said quietly, clearly unhappy with his response. "I just... I feel so lost sometimes. There's so much I do not know, so much I am not allowed to know. And I am afraid... afraid of being alone forever. I... I mean, yes, I will be married soon, and we both know who it will be with a high probability, but..."

As Jon gazed into her eyes, her vulnerability tugged at his heartstrings. He knew he could not leave her feeling like this; she deserved better than that. So, he inched closer and sat down on the bed beside her.

"You'll never be alone, Lucie," he whispered softly as he took her hand in his. "I'll always have your back no matter what happens. And someday, the man who's meant for you will come into your life."

He thought about Robb, and how he owed it to him to let Lucie go. It was selfish of him to keep her to himself. Besides, he could not even tell if she liked him or not - it was probably all in his head.

With a mix of gratitude and sadness, he knew that there was no going back from this moment. He leaned in, pressing a soft kiss to her forehead, which smelled wonderfully of peonies, and she closed her eyes, her arms tightening around his waist. For a moment, they sat there in silence, lost in their own thoughts and feelings, until he pulled away, breaking the moment.

"I should get some rest," he mumbled, trying to guess the time. "You should too, we are to hunt tomorrow."

Lucie shifted back into her old, sad self and gave him a tired smile. "Of course. I wouldn't want Robb and Theon to think that I do not want to see them. It's... uhm, I am sorry to have bothered you, Jon. I promise it won't happen again." She got up and tied her cloak around her shoulders. "I am bringing you in dangerous situations, you know, being alone with you and then overstepping your boundaries. I am... sorry," she mumbled.

'No, you haven't! Please do not leave!', shot through Jon's mind, yet he knew he could not, it was wrong. It was shameful and... he didn't want to project his feelings and his lust onto her, so he gave her a small, sad smile in return.

As Lucie turned to leave, Jon could not help but watch her walk away, his eyes lingering on the sway of her hips. When she stood up, a bright flash of red silk slipped out from under her nightgown; the ribbon that held her stockings around her pale, supple thighs. He knew it was wrong to think of it, of her, in that way, but he could not help it. She was so beautiful, so pure, and so unreachable.

He wanted her, desperately.

He shook his head, trying to rid himself of those thoughts. It was wrong, so wrong. He had to push those feelings aside, for both their sakes. He could not risk ruining the delicate balance they had between them. So, he took a deep breath, laying back on the bed. His thoughts drifted to the memory of Lucie's lost ribbon, the image of her silky stockings and smooth skin replaying in his mind. He felt himself growing hard again, and he knew what he had to do.

He closed his eyes and let his hand wander down to his growing erection, imagining it was Lucie's small, delicate hand instead. He stroked himself slowly, feeling his heartbeat quicken as he thought of her. He pictured her beautiful face, the curve of her lips, the arch of her eyebrows, her sharp, sparkling eyes. He imagined her soft, warm skin, her supple thighs, her tight, wet cunny.

As he continued to stroke himself, he let out a low moan, his body writhing with pleasure. He fantasised about Lucie being with him, touching him, kissing him, and eventually, making love to him. He imagined her moaning his name, her body trembling with ecstasy.

He stroked himself faster, his breathing growing ragged as his body approached the peak of pleasure. He moaned louder, his hand moving faster and faster until he finally exploded, spilling his hot seed all over his hand.

As he lay there, panting and sweating, he knew he had to get his feelings for Lucie under control. He could not let his lust for her ruin the special bond they shared. But at the same time, he could not stop himself from fantasising about her. She was just too beautiful, too alluring, too... perfect.

He closed his eyes and took a deep breath, feeling his body slowly calming down. He knew he had a lot to think about, a lot to figure out. But for now, he just needed to rest. He closed his eyes and let himself drift off to sleep, his mind full of thoughts of Lucie.

AO3 <= Other Stories ¦ Next Chapter => 2 - Robb

[swordsandarms]

This is a reply in regards to this post, which highlights the high likelihood that, whether people are fine with the author's choices or not, RxL is written by him with romantic nuance as far as the text goes. @sahtinekryze

And I think this fandom really needs to have a honest analysis of the idea of "selfishness" in narrative choices such as this, which is that when it comes to how the whole "duty vs love" scenarios Martin writes, he does not actually writes it with some wide spectrum ranging from selfish to sacrificial. There are usually no other choices than the two.

Could one define the alleged choice of breaking a noble marriage contract that would have negative political influence at the least, had it been the best case scenario (which one would logically assume the two might have hoped for instead of very lots of people dying including themselves) as 'selfish', which in its very definition is doing something for one's self, though it may not be advantageous for others? Yes.

But as I said, Martin doesn't write a middle ground. There's that, or Lyanna marries an unwanted man and is hence forced to have a non-consensual relationship with him, and forced to carry children out of a noncon relationship, so that her male relatives can reap benefits of political power, as well as her groom through her womb. And as shows inspired by these books love to show us very graphic such cases (like Daenerys in GOT, or the storyline given to show!Sansa, or the changes for show!Alicent in HOTD), I am sure fans should have learnt better about the accusations usually thrown at Lyanna in fandom spaces in regards to being another woman marrying against her will in a society where a woman cannot say no, marital rape isn't recognised, and a husband is "just taking his rights": that "this is just being whiny". (There are many other examples in the books; the author is also not holding back on what unwanted or unsuitable marriages mean to women.)

Against the fanon idea that she is some wild, demanding, conceited girl, she doesn't rage, she doesn't bite. She has a tentative, soft spoken conversation with her brother about it and her reluctance in the matter, and is (nicely) dismissed.

Had she not (allegedly, while all is unconfirmed) fallen for the Crown Prince and he for her, there is no one else powerful enough to extract her from her situation (her male relatives having made up their own minds in the matter), nor anyone else to go from where she cannot be recovered by a powerful and connected family and fiance. No one else she could marry/sleep with that wouldn't be shut down and covered (as seen with Tyrion or Lysa) to preserve the higher price for which her womb can be bartered. Just no other viable choice that wasn't the other end of the scale: a woman being sacrificed by men, for men's uses.

As I said at the start, this is simply how Martin writes these conflicts of "mind and heart". He corners the characters. There is no light at the end of the tunnel that isn't also sort of "selfish" and "dumb" looking on the surface.

This can be applied to more such situations in the text-

Catelyn undoes the already precarious state of her son's campaign by releasing their most valuable captive. She has not even a guarantee that her 'selfish' act for love will work. But there are no options she's given. No one else cares to make it a priority to get her daughters back. The only other choice is to let it be and let 2 girls be sacrificed in marriages of ill intent to use their wombs and discard them, unsure if she will find anything left of them but Lannister named babies when this is over. It is "selfish". It is "dumb". Yet she's cornered.

Jon makes the decision to go fight Ramsay Bolton because he's run out of options and he's cornered. Arya is allegedly in the hands of the family that have viciously killed a number of Starks and taken Winterfell. She is 11 and allegedly married. He is made sick at the thought of what is being done to her. He's tried the "lesser" tactics of getting her rescued without being seen as trespassing the status quo of the NW publicly, by sending others for her. But it was always going to come to this. Ramsay guesses (or finds out) that his escaped bride would make it to the Wall. Keeping "peace" and "doing his duty" instead of "being selfish and dumb" is handing over "Arya" himself if she even makes it to appease the Lord of Winterfell, sacrificing a girl to an unwanted marriage meant to use her for her womb and discard her.

There are no actual choices when there is no actual scale in between "selfish and dumb" and the sacrifice of a girl (or, you know, 2,3, as many as Westeros would swallow as it did for millennia for this or that Lord or King to amass and keep power), whether they are Lannisters trying to get Winterfell, or Starks extinguishing the line of the Warg King.