#^^just because . el told me to post this 100%

[zedif-y]

#cottagecore

[pablitogavii]

Hello, I got a fic idea. one where pablo keeps giving reader flowers randomly because she once mentioned she likes to keep fresh flowers at the house

Flowers

"You did such an amazing job decorating this place hija" Belen said as you shower her around your and Pablo's new apartment really happy that she could come visit the two of you finally.

"Thank you so much mamá" you smile when your boyfriend joined in snaking his arms around your waist and resting his chin on your shoulder playfully.

"Hey! Yo ayudo tambien!" he said making you both laugh as you nodded your head as you raised your hands up in surrender.

"He did buy me those flowers to put in a vase..and isn't the room just so much more beautiful with fresh flowers in it?" you ask and Belen nodded smiling at her son who took mental note that you liked flowers so much.

Next week, he came to pick you up from uni after his training and you were shocked to see a bouquet of red roses sitting on the passenger seat of his car.

"Qué es esto mi amor?" you ask and he chuckles saying they are for you making you blush and thank him.

"Eres tan especial cariño..muchas gracias" you said and Pablo savored that big smile on your face happy to be the cause of it.

y.n.bebe

Gracias cariño ❤️❤️ @pablogavi

comentarios:

pablogavi: siempre mi amor ❤️

mikkykiemeney: the sweetest!😍

aurorapaezg: que preciosos!💗

comments have been limited on this post

Another week passed, and this time you found the bouquet against the table when you got back home from work. You were stunned that he got them just in time when the old ones started dying.

"Hola mi amor? Todo bien??" Pablo answered his phone when you called little out of breath since he just finished with the training.

"Amor, you got me flowers again?" you say hearing him chuckle on the other line.

"Yeah, is that a problem? Do you like it??" he said wishing he can see your face right now and then he asked you to turn on your camera feeling his heart melt once he saw your smile.

"Um..of course I like it" you say a little flustered when you saw his teammates passing by surely hearing this conversation.

"Good. I'll see you home soon princesa!" he said and you two hung up as you took the bouquet smelling the fresh roses and getting them into the vase.

You watched the video of Pablo being asked about the roses by one of the fans when he got out of the store with them in his hands.

"Are the roses for Y/n??" girls giggled while Pablo nodded his head asking them not to post the video until later as to not ruin the surprise. How precious!

y.n.bebe

Mejor novio en todo el mundo😍. @pablogavi

comentarios:

pablogavi: Ese soy yo!😎

pablo.y.n.couple.fans: does he buy her flowers every week!? 😍

pablitoogavii: pablo spoiling his princesa!!

mikkykiemeney: another one!?😍😍

You really appreciated Pablo's sudden routine but you were wondering why all of the sudden he was gifting you flowers so frequently.

The bell rang and Pablo asked you to open the door from the bedroom so you went shocked to see a man with a large bouquet of flowers again.

"Pablo...this is.." you were speechless seeing 100 red roses in front of your face and Pablo paid the man taking the bouquet and closing the door behind himself.

"I left you speechless huh princesa??" he asked proudly kissing your forehead while you were still frozen in place looking at the huge bouquet in his hands.

"It's beautiful..but..why all of the sudden do you buy me flowers so much??" you finally got the guts to ask.

"You told my mom how you love having flowers in the house always, so I wanted to make sure you can always replace the old ones..and because I love to see you smile cariño" he explains and your heart melts at his little confession.

"You're really something special Pablito..I love you so much!" you hugged him kissing his lips lovingly before he finally gave you the flowers and you sat down on the staircase with them.

"Love you too princesa! Smile for me!" he said and you noticed him taking the picture looking away shyly as he took his picture helping you put roses into multiple vases around the house.

pablogavi

Amor de mi vida😍 @y.n.bebe

comentarios:

aurorapaezg: omg hermano😳

gavi.y.n.fanclub: he loves buying her roses hehe

y.n.bebe: te amoooo! ❤️❤️

pedri: well done hermano😎

"Amor..they look amazing" you said while the two of you were laying in bed ready to fall asleep with roses all around the room and a bright smile on your face.

"Anything for mi preciosa princesa" he smiled kissing your lips before you two cuddled up close and closed your eyes to get some well deserved rest.

[emblazons]

—woke up from literal sleep to write down the thoughts that clicked for me after I made this post about the Mike/Hopper hug last night, so. Here's the expansion of all of that lmao.

people always talk about the way Mike looked conflicted when El kisses him in S3, on top of the way he seemed fine with them breaking up until she initiated the relationship again (because of the absence of Hopper). I think this is 100% true, and it’s also the start of Mike’s spiral about protecting her we see through S4.

Mike’s “care” in lieu of "love" for El (and lack of ability to tell her he loves he romantically) is directly correlated to Hopper telling him to BE CAREFUL re: El right before he died. Almost as though Mike didn’t even have space to think of El as a true romantic partner— he was too busy trying to hold up the end of her missing “dad," and why he didn't know what to do when she started talking about how she didn't belong (because he's fourteen and not capable of filling the shoes of her father lmao).

the reason why Mike said “I was worried too much about El” is because he was—he was worried in a way suited for a father, not a boyfriend (thank you @emily-tumbles-on for that tag lol).

It’s also why he was so willing to let El go back to Owens—it’s a trusted (-ish) adult figure who could help El in a way his 14 year old self could not. It’s also why he immediately seems okay with letting her go once she says she wants to + throwing away her letter, right up until he realizes where El went is dangerous again, which meant he has to restart the protector-in-Hop’s place worry (which he doesn’t want, but feels powerless to step away from in his paladin-oath-responsibility mind).

When Mike & Will get into it at Rink O Mania over Will not telling Mike what was going on, Will interprets it as romantic attachment when it’s really giving “worried parent” not boyfriend.

That entire “you should have told me” also DIRECTLY REFLECTS the way Mike sees Will as his actual partner and equal no matter the time or distance (like in S2)—and expects him to help shoulder leadership responsibilities the way romantic/life partners would by helping him look after his charge (El).

The whole painting is confusing af for Mike because he does not see El as his partner or lover, but his responsibility in Hop’s absence—and Will, in his projection, is conflating his romantic love for Mike into the familial one between Mike & El. That's also why Mike feels so insecure about not being responsible enough (!!!) and why he looks dejected the way a parent would when you tell them you want do something they used to think was fun before having a kid when Will says “we could just play DnD and Nintendo for the rest of our lives.”

The van scene takes on a whole new meaning when you think about how the second Will made it about El, it forced Mike into a mental conundrum because he felt loved as himself at first…only to have it thrown back in with this wildly inappropriate parental responsibility he has for El because of Hop’s loss. (I watched the van scene again with this in mind and...lmao. Mike's expressions make absolute sense once you keep this conflation / confusion in mind)!

Yet another reason Mike and Jonathan need to have another conversation is because both of them have been suffering from a severe parentification—Jonathan for Will, and Mike for Eleven.

Hopper returning leaves space for both of them to move back into age-appropriate selfishness/relationships (aka think about their own wants and needs with Nancy and Will for a change) because Joyce doesn’t need Jonathan to fill the “man of the house” space, Will is going to “come of age” and have Mike, and El is gonna have her dad.

....all that to say these (and probably a million more things) become WAY clearer when you realize Mike is carrying the burden of Hopper's absence not as a boyfriend, but as 14 year old boy filling a parent space...which makes me really glad Hop didn't really die in S3 all of a sudden lmao. And also...Duffers. FREE MIKE WHEELER 2025

[will80sbyers]

Honestly I think that saving fanart just because they like it doesn’t find it a valid reason, Dani.

for example you reblog byler fanart because you love this ship and you like them together. The same goes for Duffer i guess.

I think I will accept sadly to be a delusional byler who will be forced to see Mike and El romantically until the end.

Fortunately fanfiction existing, I will find comfort there in 2025🫡

Okay! We'll see when the show ends then, if you (in general) don't mind I would like to not be sent byler doubt every time something like this happens though because I still believe in it 100%

I've told you how I feel about this my friends, I believe the ship is real so them posting stuff about it doesn't touch me because I don't think they look at it like most people here do, I think they look at it with fondness as a "first puppy love" romance, but I also see in the show how they have changed the game in season 3 and 4 and have been chipping at it and taking them towards a break up, especially El in S4 in my opinion realized that she doesn't want a romantic relationship with Mike anymore... I don't think Mike has yet!

Also I want to say that in any case even if Mike was meant to be gay they are the creators of the show so they would find it cool and appreciate that people make art of their show regardless of what they make, a few of those mlv drawings are beautiful drawings even if they are of that couple I would leave a like even just because I like the art style because I appreciate art... and if someone made fanart from a story I wrote I would be liking and saving all of it and geeking out (?) about the fact that people care about my art that much to do art on it!

[henrysglock]

Escape from Camazotz: TFS, Shadow NINA, and Saving Your Dad From The Fucked Up Idyllic World A Shadow Monster Has Imprisoned Him In

Loads of people have already talked about how this all:

is reminiscent of A Wrinkle In Time. And I agree...to an extent. I even have an initial Thing about AWIT from April 2023.

What doesn't make sense, though, is if that's the case...then whose father is being sought after/saved? The whole point in AWIT is that Meg Murry had to save her father from Camazotz, a creepily idyllic/conformist world created by IT...

...that also serves as a prison.

The capitol city of Camazotz is CENTRAL/Central Intelligence, and it's overseen by IT and the man with Red Eyes, who serves as a front for IT. Something something...CIA...Richard Brenner being the head of narcotics at HNL vs all the NINA-TFS-Mindflayer hallucinogenic drug ties I outlined previously.

Anyway, returning to suburban Camazotz...You know what else is idyllic that arguably shouldn't be?

Henry's current form.

There have been numerous posts relating the Mindflayer to IT (AWIT), which is where the idyllic but unreal nature comes in.

I've spoken ad nauseam about how TFS, NINA, and Shadow NINA all run along the same lines re: unreality/simulation/Matrix-y type deal, with the Mindflayer being able to quite literally run a different version of NINA to entrap Henry in the VR game. What I want to touch on is a section from the big analysis re: Henry's current whereabouts—

Specifically, per the VR, Henry was banished back into his mind in 1984, just before Will's flaying...which, as far as the VR tells us, he had no active involvement in. We don't know where he ended up, exactly, but the banishment does introduce us to the Shadow NINA concept.

Henry, per the VR, may very well still be trapped in the unreality maze of Shadow NINA.

It's also hilarious to to me that AWIT has a stage play...

...because we see, per TFS, this degree of romanticization coming from Henry alongside the unreality (below is also an excerpt from the big analysis)

In the VR, we're told Henry was bullied by his peers, but that never takes place in TFS. Nor is Bob bullied, though he also canonically says he was. This tells me the romanticization feeds into the unreality, creating what I had been saying all along: A nearly perfect dream world...

...until it comes crashing down when TFS Brenner exposes the truth. Henry has a persistent and steadfast commitment to writing off aspects of this unreality that flag it as unreality, and a persistent drive for normalcy. He wants to be normal and happy, and he tries to push down/hide from/ignore anything that says otherwise until he can't anymore.

In short: He's in deep, babes.

However, the real point I want to make with all this in mind: It's 100% possible the leaks we've seen of Jamie and Nell are set in a Camazotz-like Matrix-y idyllic dream world.

It's also possible, given the ties between Nell's character, Jane, and Henry, as well as Jamie's statements on Henry truly having wanted a nice life with El outside the lab and the understanding that parallels between texts and show are NEVER going to be 1:1, that Nell's character is the Meg Murry to Will's Charles Wallace and Mike's Calvin O'Keefe.

This works especially well considering that Charles Wallace is the one who ends up possessed by IT, much like Will has his persistent connection to the Mindflayer, and Meg Murry is looking for her father, which Henry isn't to either Mike or Will...but might be to a Mindflayer-generated version of the daughter he wanted to run away and start a new life with: Jane.

That's not to say Henry would be willing to leave that world, especially if he's got the life he always dreamed of, whether it's a gilded cage or not.

Final additional point: Hello overalls on Meg and flannel+bowl cut on Charles Wallace.

[findafight]

hi i'm the anon that sent the ask about someone telling joyce and oh my god it being hopper that says it is so good. i can totally see him doing that. i also love that you added steve finding out from murray bc that's always been my preferred hc for how steve would find out. murray saying something about it that's weird and out of pocket is him to a tee imo. poor steve i feel so bad for him in this au, at least hopper is on his side completely. ty for acknowledging how fucked up it is that nancy and jonathan but esp nancy never actually told steve. i wonder what she would've done/told him if steve hadn't bit the bullet and broken up w her.

Thank youuuu (love getting ask mwah) (also idk what to call the au) Listen I loooove Steve and Hopper accidentally adopting each other. In my brain Dustin talked up Steve's hair skills to El at the snowball and she gets all starry-eyed like he knows! Hair? :0 Dustin you have to convince Steve to come over to my house and help me with my hair and I will convince hop to let him come! I also need hair advice!! Hop barely has hair!! Which is how Steve gets a little sister pre S3 (like he always wanted) (he also gets max a bit later too godbless) (sibling collector lmao) Steve 100% calls Hop dad once without realizing and Hopper gets choked up and Steve's like you okay there?? And Hop has to go yeah yeah I'm finE so he doesn't embarrass Steve. That's the shit. (Also makes more Steve and El angst post S3 with hop gone and them being separated ;-;)

Hopper gets to be a jackass to on his kid's behalf and I think that's actually beautiful.

Oh, yeah. The more I've thought about it the more I feel like Steve has no clue Nancy cheated on him. We saw how he acted in S1 when he thought so and while S2 Steve wouldn't be so extreme, he'd definitely be crushed. And with S4...idk I don't think Steve knew about the cheating then. It just seems like he wouldn't. Want to go back after being cheated on? Or that he'd have some serious hang ups with Nancy. Even if he still loved her if he knew she slept with Jonathan, would he want to act on it? Also did he know they were still together? Does she mention Jonathan at all to anyone but Fred?

Also Murray. You bizarre jackass. Of COURSE it was him. He'd feel guilty about it because he totally thought Steve knew and he was just trying to be a dickhead but not like. Cruel. so it's awwwkwaaaard and not the fun kind he can manipulate just the sad kind that has Hopper glaring at him.

Yeah... I understand that the writers do not feel like Nancy cheated but I have eyes and media comprehension and know how relationships work and Nancy herself said she had Steve back home to Murray so. What else am I supposed to think. I get why Nancy and Jon don't interact with Steve after the Upside Down but like. Not even to apologize to him? Did Nancy's relationship with Steve mean so little to her? I do think she, at one point, did love Steve, or convinced herself of it and did care for him, but for her to drop him like a hot potato the second Jonathan gets the nerve to make a move (she said she waited a month for him before going back to a probably grovelling Steve [based on how desperate he was at the Byers' to apologize to Jon] and it's like Woah! Okay writers! What do you want us to believe about this relationship?!) So just. Why didn't she actually tell Steve what happened? Idk. Jon I kinda get he and Steve were love rivals and Jonathan is already awkward it probably would have been weird and also it wasn't his place to say! It should have been Nancy!

Honestly if Steve hadn't broken things off....idk. I don't think she necessarily would have continued with both of them, but I think Nancy tends to look for easy ways out of relationship hurdles. So. Maybe it would have festered for a few months, before Steve finally couldn't stand the tension and cut things off there. I don't actually think, based on what we've seen in the show, the scene between Nancy and Steve could have gone any different. Like. It should have. Nancy definitely could have acknowledged her role in the crumbling relationship, but I think Steve letting her go is a significant character beat for him. He chooses he's not going to hold onto someone who doesn't want to be with him. For me that's him trying to move past his issues from his parents and to continue to be better.

Yeah this au is not nice to poor Steve. He does have support! Robin and Eddie are both there and know everything, Hopper and El also know most stuff and are very worried about why he's so keen to leave the house all the time (he doesn't live there but he doesn't...not live there...) Buddy's got issues that will be heightened by all these things happening with Joyce!

[brionysea]

possessiongate: explained

i've been vague posting about this for a while, but after mapping everything out i think it's time for a full analysis of stranger things 4 and what's going on with mike wheeler in it

i think vecna is in mike's head. i think mike is being possessed by vecna at certain points in the season, which is why he's suddenly so weird and inconsistent about a lot of things

@dinitride-art’s post on the visuals of mike’s monologue sent me down this rabbit hole, and since going through everything for this explanation with that in mind, i'm now extremely convinced that this is intentional

i’m going to follow mike through the entire season to explain what he's thinking, what's going on in his head in general, and why it's not what the show wants us to think

very lengthy explanation under the cut!

we start in hawkins, with el's letter. it's the first thing we see. the camera only secondarily pans up to mike. then nancy suddenly barges in, seems to snap him out of something, and we immediately get the question "what the hell are you doing?", which mike never actually provides an answer to

in the second shot we get of mike, the sign above his bed is only partially visible. it reads “one w”

one -> vecna

w -> wheeler

there's an almost immediate connection, and it has something to do with el because her letter is still in frame until mike throws it away. vecna intends to use mike against el

when we get a wider view of the room, it's a complete mess. last time we saw mike's room it was immaculate. we can see daylight coming through the window in the mirror ("one way" mirror -> one is watching him without his knowledge) but his lamp is still on, implying he's been up all night

there are a lot of time references surrounding mike in this opening sequence. time -> clocks -> vecna

mike's issue with sleeping (which is later revealed as a sign that vecna is in your head) gets a bit closer to noticeable when he starts to say something that's probably along the lines of him going to bed early not mattering because he won't be able to sleep anyway, but he doesn't get the chance to finish what he wants to say. this happens a lot this season

karen: you need to go to bed early tonight. mike: why? ted: it's a 6:30 flight, michael. mike: yeah, i know, but— karen: no buts. 9 or no california. ted: and no sweetie pie.

they're already hiding mike's thoughts from us. even when we’re seeing things from his point of view, for one reason or another, we’re not allowed to know what he’s thinking despite him actively trying to tell us

ted’s comment brings up el again, further connecting her to the time references and mike’s concerning behaviour

mike is immediately not okay for some reason, from his very first scene, but it’s not in our face like max. it’s hidden. nancy doesn’t comment on the state of his room even though this isn’t normal for him. his parents kind of seem to assume that him trying to brush off his need for sleep is just him being a stubborn teenager. his grades having slipped is told to us through a joke while the same thing with max is pointed out as not normal and a sign that something’s wrong. the characters haven’t noticed, and a good majority of the audience won’t notice either unless they go looking for it. it’s all there, but it's hidden in plain sight

for this first day, mike is 100% mike. this is establishing who he is now, without any active supernatural interference. mike is over the forced conforming of last summer, mike doesn’t care about being popular, mike doesn’t care about girls laughing at him, mike is embracing his love of dungeons and dragons again, mike is shamelessly sending heart eyes the way of the cool older guy who likes dnd and rock music and shows him it’s okay to be different. this is setting up the contrast for when he starts acting like a completely different person later

because of an outside influence in the shape of eddie, mike does a few uncharacteristic things. he ditches lucas and lets someone else lead, instead of leading by example like he usually does and just telling dustin that they’re going to the basketball game anyway. he did fight for lucas in the first place, being the only one who could just say that they needed to postpone, but he gets manipulated in a direction he doesn’t want to go. this really sets the stage for what’s going on with him this season

mike is having headaches. this is another sign of vecna being in his head. i think of it like a physical defence mechanism, a sign from your body that something’s wrong, similar to the nosebleeds since they both stem from the brain. which there’s also a very small hint of when mike does this very subtle sniffing thing while sitting outside with dustin like there’s something tickling his nose

there’s the beginning of mike not really knowing what’s going on

mike: screw what? [...] what? what? dustin, where are you going? [...] come on, just talk to me! tell me things! [...] what are you talking about?

this is new territory. mike usually knows everything for absolutely no reason. he's being removed from his leadership position as the dungeon master and his ability to understand the situation is being messed with. that functionally changes his role, and effectively disables him as a character so that the season can work and vecna can win

they neutralised jonathan so that he couldn't support will and el by making him a stoner. they (vecna) neutralised mike so that he couldn't support will and el by making his mind not his own anymore

during the campaign, an argument starts up. mike doesn't take part until dustin puts his ego on the backseat to ask what mike thinks, reminding us just how smart mike really is and the effect he has on people. especially since his advice works. mike, always being more inclined to fight than run, supports dustin's plan

mike: it's risky as hell. but you're the ones on the battlefield. so it's your call.

this sounds like mike giving advice that he wants to hear himself. specifics of the campaign aside, getting told that he's smart and capable and should trust his own judgement is a major turning point in his character later on

right around the time mike would be meeting his curfew (offscreen, because we're not allowed to see that either) and committing to visiting the byers, vecna moves in for the kill and chrissy dies

mike was supposed to visit the byers months earlier but he didn't for some reason, and them coming back to hawkins for christmas didn't work out either. it's easy to find a reason why, probably money, but mike had already gotten permission from karen at the end of season 3 and money isn't a problem for them. he could have just been doing his avoidance thing, or it could be a play on the pattern of him being late to things, but i'm curious if he subconsciously knew that something bad would happen if he left and held it off as long as he could. considering mike is already acting like someone else when he gets off the plane and his clothes, which he must have put on in hawkins, are used to indicate that, it's possible vecna took control in this offscreen blind spot and made him go. the fact that it took this long for that to happen really is a testament to mike's mental strength

now we’re in california! and mike immediately starts acting weird. he’s wearing sunglasses indoors, which is unnecessary and really stands out. i also get a vibe of implied dishonesty

mike: so i kinda did, like a 70/30 split, kinda thing.

70% vecna. 30% mike. this is absolutely an intentional slip from vecna, since we know he likes just telling people his plans and feeling smug about how clever he is when he still fools them

mike is very weird towards will, which is so unlike him that absolutely everyone picks up on it. mike got over his “ignoring will” issues near the end of season 3. he looked devastated and completely dead inside the day they left hawkins. there is no way that mike, fully in control of himself, would treat will this way after seeing him again for the first time in months

argyle: that's a rad shirt, man. ocean pacific? [...] oh no, no, no. no, it's a shitty knockoff. yeah. but don't worry, i'll get you the good threads out here.

mike shows up acting fake. the dialogue points out that his shirt is fake. and a bad fake, at that, but one that's convincing enough at first glance. you can connect the dots

then argyle brings up nancy and things get awkward, but like most of the romance this season (especially around mike), i think it's meant to distract us

argyle: yeah, this is kinda awkward, man. mike: yeah, so awkward. argyle: i mean, i really thought it was ocean pacific.

it comes right back to the shirt. right back to mike being a fake. one that tricks you unless you look hard enough

things aren’t awkward because of nancy. they’re awkward because this random person who vecna didn't even seem to account for, based on the initial weird look mike gives him that really reminds me of possessed will looking at bob, called out his ploy in two seconds flat without even realising it

vecna has mike play along with the perfect, happy, normal couple ideal that el is aiming for, while simultaneously ignoring will. inevitably it crashes and burns, which vecna was probably counting on, because he knows lies like this never last

mike and will fight. mike's side involves a hurt that's based in not knowing what's going on. he looks confused when will describes the day they both just lived through (this will not be the last time this happens) and tries to just... leave the conversation. because he doesn't know what to say. because he doesn't know what will's talking about. this whole day was mostly from will’s point of view and doesn’t even touch mike’s, so we don’t even know what, exactly, mike is confused about or what he thought was happening

but will doesn’t let him walk away

will: you're mad that i didn't talk to you? seems like you made it super clear that you're not interested in anything i have to say. mike: that's just not true. will: you called maybe a couple times. it's been a year, mike. meanwhile el has like a book of letters from you.

we know mike cares what will has to say. he cares a lot. all he does this season is listen to what will has to say

it also hasn’t been a year. it’s been six months, tops. but mike and will stick to this even when most other characters talk about it normally. the only real time period in the show that matches up with what they’re saying was between seasons 1 and 2. before will got possessed. before will and mike spent an entire season joined at the hip while mike provided emotional support against the possession. which is exactly what happens in season 4, just in reverse

one line near the end of the fight hints towards mike already knowing something's wrong, despite being pretty majorly influenced by vecna for the majority of the day

mike: why... why am i the bad guy?

if this is mike — which, considering it sounds like he has to fight to say it, i think it is — it's possible that he saw/found the double meaning in argyle's comment earlier. he glanced down at his shirt when he heard it and didn’t really know how to respond to it

we saw how mike dressed just one episode ago, one day ago, and it wasn't like this. the outfit is used as an indication that something's wrong with mike. the logic of the clothes being unlike him probably opened up the floodgates for his intuition, which we know doesn't have to make logical sense for him to trust it

i’m dead certain that el heard this fight. she heard angela's group perfectly when they were a similar distance away from her, and she has a habit of hearing mike whether he wants her to or not. she seems to have very good hearing in general, possibly because of the way she was born. el knowing this will pop up again later

vecna manipulates mike's reaction to el schmacking angela, which mike notably seems confused about later and can't coherently explain. this part was very, very obvious. even casual viewers picked up on this reaction not matching up with mike’s prior reactions to el dealing with bullies

because of this preoccupation with mike, vecna has to pretty much speedrun fred's visions as this big chunk that takes long enough for the sun to set because he didn't have time to spread them out over the day like he did with chrissy. there was one individual vision, but it was relatively brief and wouldn't have left mike to his own devices for too long

this was most likely happening during the period where everyone was standing around rinkomania, on the drive home, and spilling into the dinner scene, because mike's stormy, silent judgement and bitchy glares are the most in character thing he's done in california so far

the byers and guests have dinner. mike seems normal at first, although there is another hint of a nosebleed. he quickly realises that murray's hiding something and gets visibly suspicious about it, he's still unimpressed by jonathan and argyle's shenanigans, and he instinctively questions joyce's last minute business trip but keeps his thoughts to himself, probably because he doesn't fully understand the situation and also likes and respects the byers too much to start a scene at the dinner table when he's a guest in their home. we saw this behaviour during eddie's campaign, the choice to not involve himself unless called upon while a whole lot's going on around him. this is all mike

and then mike starts a scene at the dinner table when he's a guest in their home

vecna must have jumped back shortly after killing fred. something switches, and suddenly mike's not acting like mike anymore

he makes a totally uncalled for, passive aggressive comment that upsets el further in response to jonathan and argyle trying to make her feel better. that happened on the drive home too, and while mike rolled his eyes at them, that's because they were ridiculously high and acting like it. he didn't have a problem with them being nice to el ten minutes ago. it comes completely out of nowhere. there was no indication he was even that upset about the angela incident prior to this. if anything he was thinking about his fight with will

el visibly finds mike's comment confusing for a second before she leaves to beat herself up in her bedroom, making it the second time in one day she's thought mike was acting wrong. and she's right to think that. mike only ever makes comments like this to el or will in the heat of the moment because they get special treatment. a chill family dinner where mike was previously minding his own business is not equivalent to el throwing lucas through the air and knocking him unconscious

mike doesn't eat at dinner. he's shown playing with his food and will is shown noticing it. argyle must have too because of something that happens later. mike has always done this when he's upset, dating all the way back to the first episode, but in this context it seems to be representative of him resisting something. it reminds me of his implied resistance to sleep too

joyce is confused by what’s going on, probably referring to jonathan and mike’s behaviour specifically. murray, the expert Seer of Things, watches el leave with mild surprise and then immediately looks straight at mike

murray: okay, i, uh, i sense tension. is it the risotto? everyone hates the risotto?

this is a joke, but mike is pointedly not eating the risotto in the same scene as he suddenly starts acting like a different person. it was a targeted comment. the tension is within mike. it's vecna fighting for control of mike's mind

jonathan and argyle, however, have only positive things to say about the risotto. this topic of food (in relation to mike) will pop back up later

now we’re onto the part of how and when vecna kills people that probably stumped robin when she tried to find a pattern to it. why they got an extra day to figure out max was in danger. it’s because vecna had to make sure mike wouldn’t fix things with el first. he’s still keeping an eye on the home team, because he starts opening the first gate the second they leave the trailer park, but el is his priority

mike mopes at breakfast. he still isn't eating. he's still resisting. will is still noticing, which is promising in terms of mike eventually getting help on this. but for now he loses again, just like last night, and he ends up chasing after el. he brings her food too, which as it currently stands is not a good thing. she doesn’t eat either, and i doubt she would have even if he’d brought cutlery

mike seems really confused during their conversation. he trails off a lot and talks himself in circles. it really stands out because it's so different from his usual speech patterns

el: you think i'm a monster too. mike: what? el: yesterday. the way you looked at me. you... you were scared of me. mike: no. no. no, that's not... that's... that's not true. i was surprised. maybe i was a little upset in the moment, but i mean... i'm sorry. i just... i didn't know what to do.

no mention of his comment at dinner. it's almost like he doesn't even remember saying it. he retroactively confirms that he didn't care that much about what happened once the shock wore off. and i cannot stress enough that he is so, so confused. this isn't about no one telling him anything anymore. he was there. he should know what he's talking about. but he doesn't

it sounds like he's seriously fighting to get the words out again, but cranked up to a hundred. this is probably why max got so much extra time. because mike is stubborn as hell, and every single season demonstrates how his true strength lies in his mind, and it probably took a lot of vecna’s focus to force him into upsetting el when we know how much he cares about her and he seems to be actively fighting it. it takes mike five tries to even start to say "that's not true," the same thing he said to will yesterday. but it’s such a minor detail, and they’re overshadowing it all with the love triangle drama, so it’s easy to miss

mike is usually so confident and so level headed and so silver tongued that he can get full grown adults like hopper to respect and listen to him in a crisis, so hearing him trip over his words like this is ringing major alarm bells. el looks confused by the way he's acting again because mike is truly gifted at quickly understanding and explaining situations. he's slightly worse off when they concern his feelings, but he's not this bad. the only way he'd be acting like this is if his ability to understand what's going on has been internally tampered with

the uncharacteristic hesitancy and confusion lingers for most of the scene, but it lets up a lot after "i say it" and entirely disappears by the end, where this really patronising tone comes in to fill its place that doesn't sound like mike at all. he calls el ridiculous, he tries to make her think she's making things up, he brushes off her feelings, he deflects. mike does not do this in conflicts with el. mike avoids. and mike has far more respect for el than this

mike: what, like... what is this? you know what i think of you.

this directly leads into mike externally basing el's self worth on being incredible and special and a superhero, which directly contradicts the information we already have about mike's thoughts on el's powers that they're actively drawing our attention to

in season 3, mike was the one person saying that el shouldn't have to use her powers. that she shouldn't be obligated to sacrifice everything for her friends. that she's more than a superhero or a machine. that she's a person who's worthy of protecting whether she's saving them or not. and he followed through on that when she initially lost her powers: he flipped the car when she couldn't, he made a plan to get her and max to safety and tried to protect her from vecna when they were trapped in starcourt, and months later he got a teddy bear down from the high shelf for her when she couldn't get it herself. there was no hint of mike's view of el potentially changing without her powers. none. and this show is very good at foreshadowing, so that absence is very conspicuous

the tail end of this speech doesn't sound anything like mike. there's a reason he sounds like he's fighting it

but you know who it does sound like? vecna. the guy who thinks every other human being is an unimportant nobody. the guy who says that brenner didn't matter because he was ordinary. the guy who thinks that el is on his level, whether that's as an apprentice or an enemy, because of how special and incredible and superpowered she is. the guy who wants to kill el's friends while she watches, or kill her while they watch, as punishment for turning against him. and he can't do any of that if she doesn't remember him, and she can't remember him until she's pushed into thinking that she's worthless without her powers, which is exactly what mike is putting into her head in this scene despite that not being how he sees her at all

the police interrupt before mike can get his head sorted out, and we get this

mike: everything's gonna be fine. i am going to fix this. okay? just... just stay calm and everything's gonna be fine. okay? just... all you have to do is trust me. i promise. i'm gonna get you out. i promise!

like to his advice to dustin, i think this reveals what's going on in mike's head. el doesn't want reassurance that everything will be okay. el doesn't need to be told not to panic. she's not the one panicking right now. these are all things that mike needs to hear

which implicitly makes "i'm gonna get you out" a lot more interesting. it applies to el, because she's getting arrested and later trapped by brenner, but how does it apply to mike? what does he need out of? what does he need rescuing from?

vecna focuses on max much later, after el doesn't return home and confirms that she's on her way to getting her powers and memories back. they try to hide it with the episode break, but mike immediately starts acting more like himself. he gets into an individual standoff with an authority figure representing the american government in like five minutes. that's the most mike wheeler thing he could possibly do

mike: so, what? we're just supposed to trust that you're the good guys? whoever you are?

this is mike in control of his own mind, mike who's finally acting like himself again, and he's telling us not to blindly trust anyone just because they're supposedly a good guy. he's telling us not to trust him, just like el didn't seem to earlier. because he doesn't trust himself right now. because he's been acting like someone else. if there's one thing mike is stellar at, it's tactical calls like this. this is exactly what happened when will was possessed

mike retreats upstairs to read el's letter, isolating himself. that particular habit becomes something very interesting in a little bit

dear mike, i have gone to become a superhero again. from, el

he realises that his words pushed el towards this decision, that he's the reason she chose to go back to some version of the lab, and he starts to wonder why the hell he said any of it. this kind of implies that what he said downstairs was entirely based on intuitive, subconscious knowledge, since he was pretty focused on the situation in front of him, and seeing something solid and tangible that proves there’s merit to the idea of something being wrong with him just kicked his brain into high gear

mike’s still very present in the hawkins part of the story during dear billy. they’re in mike’s space, and the way they’re hanging out without him there and not even trying to think of a plan makes his absence really obvious. max writes him a letter. max says his name twice, either independently of anyone else’s or before them. he appears in max's memory montage

we see the basement for the first time this season and it's as bad as his room. the lighting is much darker and less homey than before, there's no natural light, and the mess makes it feel claustrophobic when it’s actually a very open space. it's hard not to think that this is meant to be a physical representation of what's going on in mike's mind

as for what mike's actually doing, he has a clear head for the first time since he landed in california because vecna doesn't need to use him to mess with el anymore, and he's using it to question his own actions and words and why they don't reflect what he actually thinks

will: i… i just don't think they've actually thought this through. if this goes on for a month, or months, and people can't get a hold of us, they're gonna totally freak out. meanwhile my mom's probably having a panic attack already.

this is said by a rambling, pacing will, while mike sits on the edge of the bed, not moving, staring a hole through el's letter. it's the next day, and he's still hung up on it. he still can't figure out why he called el a superhero. this is a different type of anxiety than we've seen from mike before, because when mike is anxious he's usually the one pacing non-stop until everyone is annoyed with him. we saw that behaviour from him just last night, so he hasn't just dropped it

mike paces when he wants to fix an external problem. the fact that he's not moving at all here suggests that this is an internal one

the joyce mention can only be indicative of mike's mental space, because joyce isn't that anxious at all this season. certainly not enough to be reminiscent of a panic attack. this isn't foreshadowing for joyce, it's utilising the similarities between her and mike to tell us what he's on the edge of until will pulls him out of it

the idea of a problem lasting for months is interesting too, because threats from the upside down usually last for about a week. i think it's meant to indicate that what mike is quietly freaking out about has been going on for months, and that it’s connected to what's happening in hawkins

mike: before the cops came, me and el, we had a bad fight. we never fight. [...] but, i don’t know, this one just felt more adult.

when they got interrupted, they weren't talking about mike's inability to say he loves el. they were talking about el being a superhero

mike's confused as he says they never fight, which backs up el's confusion over his comment at dinner and his own confusion during the fight in question as mike not being in control during that conflict. this isn’t normal behaviour, and mike’s the one who started it so mike’s not normal right now

the adult comment is really telling too. it felt more adult because it was more adult, because there was an adult involved. vecna was involved

mike: and maybe i should've said something, and if i would've said that thing, then maybe she'd want me there with her. wherever she is.

the show wants us to think he's talking about the romantic conflict. but if what he's thinking about is the idea of breaking up with el, and what he's thinking about has him on the verge of a panic attack, then it can't be el because we've seen his reaction to breaking up with her before and he was totally fine. what they’re telling us is going on in mike’s head makes no sense at all

this is a trick. just like mike’s fake shirt. they're distracting us with the relationship drama and letting us assume that it's about el or will as we please, while mike never specifies that that's what he's talking about

he means the main bulk of the letter. he's talking about calling el a superhero instead of telling her what he actually thinks which is that she doesn't need powers to have worth. he's on the verge of a panic attack because he doesn't know why he said that, because he feels like he's losing his mind again, and because it physically drove el away to get her powers back at the same time as bad things are happening in hawkins. that combination usually leads to el endangering herself and mike protesting, so him driving her to it without even meaning to is definitely panic-worthy

will tells mike that he can see el again and say whatever he wants to say then, but mike clearly isn't convinced. he's not reassured. he doesn't want to hear that he's going to see el again. he doesn't actually want el to have taken him with her. because being near el means uncontrollably saying something he doesn't believe that hurts her again. this is the start of mike wanting to distance himself from el to protect her

mike significantly perks up when joking around/flirting with will and after jonathan makes the plan for them to go to hawkins (away from el), which leads into possibly the most mike scene in this entire season: the bedroom heart to heart with will

will: you're packed already? mike: yeah, i mean, i never really unpacked. thanks, by the way. will: for what? mike: for knocking some sense into me. i mean, i was being a total self-pitying idiot.

there's... a lot going on here. they bring up mike's emotional baggage and then almost immediately have him brush off his panic (a near panic attack, remember) from earlier that he never actually dealt with. both of their reactions support what i was saying earlier, that it would be ridiculous if mike was that panicked over el. not even el being in danger, just a fight with el

will definitely did the right thing by pulling mike out of that spiral and it makes sense that mike would thank him for that, but he was still thinking about it at the end of that scene before he got distracted by jonathan's plan. mike is still bottling things up. there are still things about mike that are being hidden from us

mike attributes his change in mood to will, which isn't entirely wrong. support systems do make a difference in fighting off possession, as seen with the shed scene back in season 2, and mike was instrumental in bringing will back so the opposite is most likely true. but the fact is that it isn't just will, it's that vecna isn't actively using mike anymore, and it’s that mike thinks he’s going to hawkins where he won’t be able to hurt el so he can stop worrying about it for now

mike: hey, also, about the last few days...

it was incredibly intentional that mike didn't get to finish this sentence. it would have told us too much if he did. getting an insight into what mike’s version of the first two days in california looked like would probably answer a lot of questions

mike gets distracted by will's inability to accept an apology, going against his prior, uncharacteristic behaviour of apparently noticing how will was feeling but not really doing anything about it, and we get likely the same information we would have but framed in a different way

mike: listen, the truth, is the last year has been weird, you know?

presumably he's just being dramatic again and actually means the time since the byers moved, but that's still a long time. and if things have been weird in the same way that the last few days have been weird, where he’s constantly confused and not acting like himself and not knowing what’s going on at all, that has some really sinister implications

will nods in response, because he does know. will knows what it's like to be possessed. he knows what it's like to have someone else in your head. he knows what it's like to feel like you're going crazy. he knows what it's like when someone else is using you to hurt the people you care about

mike says he feels like he was focusing too much on el and that he lost will in the process. vecna was using mike to upset el. he was pushing her where he wants her to go on the chess board. he was pushing her into remembering him so that when he tortures her he'll get the full satisfaction out of it. mike wasn't allowed to focus on will because vecna wouldn't get anything out of that

the way mike mends his relationship with will here by just being himself and caring is exactly what vecna was trying to avoid by not letting mike talk to el

they get knocked off course by the shootout, plans change, and their new goal is to find a way to el

vecna continues to leave mike alone, focusing on patrick and the nosy teenagers that are poking around his house. he wants the cali crew (and mike specifically) to find el, and just letting mike do his thing is the easiest way to make that happen

when argyle starts freaking out in the desert, mike realises while standing over an open grave that not only did his words send el away, they could directly lead to her death if anything happens to her. and he still has no clue why the fuck he said that. he freezes up again (continued indication that this is an internal conflict within his mind) as he gets caught up in that thought spiral, because he didn't actually resolve it before despite what he said to will. during their conversation on top of the car, mike connects the mystery of unknown hero agent man’s dying (lack of) words to his own situation

why didn't he just say the number? -> what the hell was going on with mike in the monster/superhero fight?

because mike still can't figure it out. he still doesn't know why he couldn’t just tell el what he thinks of her

mike: i should've explained myself. maybe then eleven would've taken me with her and things would be different, but i... will: no. mike: i didn't know what to say.

there's the reoccurring oddity of mike being uncharacteristically lost again. he didn't know what to say because he didn't know what was going on, and he still doesn't understand the fight or the things he said or why he lied right to el's face

the idea that things would be different if that fight had gone differently is an interesting thing to bring up. they're telling us it's important. the things mike said in that scene are important. if mike wasn't neutralised like this, things would be different. that's why vecna couldn't let him run wild and still entertain any idea of success

i think what they’re really getting at is if mike was able to give el a stronger hint that something’s wrong. because el is very clever, and i do believe that she figures it out near the end of the season, but it would’ve made a significant difference if she got it just a few days earlier

will: i think it's just scary to open up like that. to say how you really feel. especially to the people you care about the most. because what if they don't like the truth?

queercoding aside, that last question really freaks me out within this context. because yes, it was the 80s, but good people existed in the 80s. good people have always existed. our cast of main characters is made up of good people. none of them would hate mike for being queer, even if it's a very understandable fear for him to have. but if mike was unwittingly giving information to vecna? if he was used to push vecna's plans into motion? if he was used to cause the downfall of hawkins?

that's a much, much scarier thing to think about. because i find it more plausible that people would be angry at him for that. mike could easily think so too, even if it's not his fault. he'd certainly blame himself

then mike finds the coordinates, figures out what NINA is, and has the idea to go to suzie for help

the assumption that NINA is a phone -> the assumption that what mike wants to say is that he loves el

the reality that NINA is a computer -> the reality that what mike wants to say is that el doesn't need to have powers or be a superhero to matter

mike: now i don’t know if NINA’s a computer like joshua or owens’ lab, but unknown hero agent man, he gave us access to it for a reason. we just need to find the computer. we find owens, then we warn him. then we warn eleven. i just need a hacker.

this is a coded way for them to talk about what’s going on with mike through the connection they established between the number and the superhero fight. he doesn’t know what’s happening to him, but he knows that it’s happening for a reason. he needs to find out what the situation is and then warn el. and he can do that by going to suzie

mike’s headache from the first episode makes a reappearance when they get there. vecna’s still in his head, just dormant. mike lies flawlessly with will, in contrast to dustin, lucas and max doing a very bad job of it. they’re reminding us that mike is good at lying to make us look closer at the things he’s been saying

suzie: i’m really sorry. truly. but it looks like you came all the way here for nothing. unless… mike: unless? suzie: there might be a way. but we’re gonna need help. and i mean a lot of help.

they said that mike would find answers at suzie’s house. this is it. the scene cuts to karen looking for the kids and running down into the basement right after this, which is looking good for their relationship growing stronger next season

mike came here looking for a computer, and they end up needing suzie’s father’s computer, which is locked up in his study. they use the help from before to distract him, sneak in, and start looking for answers

jonathan: maybe it’s hidden in the code somehow? mike: what you just said makes no sense. suzie: hold your butts. i’ll just trace the IP.

someone’s going to overcomplicate the situation because mike’s head has so much constantly going on in it that even a certified genius like suzie has an initial “what is all this?” reaction to it when she sees the mountains of code on the real world equivalent. but there’s going to be a really simple solution that most of them were too overwhelmed to think of immediately

the cali crew succeed, so whatever this section is foreshadowing in season 5, it’s going to work. much better than the similar plan of this season. there are a million more distractions, everyone gets out unharmed, and the person who locked up the computer is none the wiser at the end

even with the coordinates, they have a hard time finding NINA. mike and will are on the same page but jonathan insists on rechecking the map. it's right, and they remind us that mike said as much. we should trust what he's thinking about something being wrong with him and we should trust the coded solution he just found

argyle is the one who actually finds the trail, so for some reason he's going to be really important to fixing this problem

back in hawkins, vecna plays mind games with nancy and uses her as a messenger for el too. apparently that's just a thing for the plot relevant wheelers

then there's the painting scene. which i think vecna was listening in on, but i don’t think he was influencing it

the answers they found at suzie's were that mike needs help. will gives him help when he starts spiralling about the closing distance between him and el, real help that actually gets through to him, by reminding him of who he fundamentally is. when mike is literally losing himself, that makes all the difference

the scene is also very visually similar to when will was possessed. will is being absolutely smothered in light from the window, because he's mike's light, the one max says you have to hide in to escape vecna, and when the shed scene turned into a time skip montage mike was lit in a similar way

mike: i mean, she’s special. she was born special. maybe i was one of the first people to realise that.

this doesn’t make any sense unless it’s mike looking back into vecna’s mind without realising, because it’s just not true for mike but it is something vecna would think. he was talking about how el was born special (like him) just last episode. he’s the one who told her the secret to making her powers stronger because he saw himself in her

if you zoom in on what mike’s saying, you get “maybe i was one”. was. past tense, when el was nearby. now he’s mike again

when nancy delivers the message for el, it includes seeing mike dead. vecna definitely knows who he is and he's in danger

then we find out, through el, that mike did try to call will. he tried to call him a lot. enough that dustin was sick of hearing about it

dustin: i told you, joyce has this telemarketer job. she's always on the phone. mike won't stop whining about it.

so why didn't mike say as much in their rinkomania fight? he'll complain to dustin but not to will? he was defending himself, saying it's not solely on him to maintain that relationship, so why wouldn't he say something along the lines of "at least i tried," because we all know mike can get harsh in arguments with will that he thinks are unfair

why would mike say that will should have reached out more but not say that he did try to reach out himself? he told el that he called her every night for 353 days without any hesitation, so he doesn't think admitting to that kind of thing is embarrassing. he wanted el to know that he missed her. he protested when will said he deserved the way he was treated during that argument. he wasn't afraid of will knowing how much he cares because he started shamelessly flirting and told will that hawkins isn't the same without him like two days after their fight, once he started acting like himself again

and that's the problem. because it wasn't fully mike at that point. all he could get out was "that's just not true," which was calling on our pre-existing knowledge of him to piece things together

which is exactly what el starts doing. she has a lot on her mind, but she's noticed all of mike’s odd behaviour already. this is just another thing that's so blatantly contradictory that it pushes her towards really questioning where all of it is coming from. she knows this doesn't make sense. if she heard mike and will arguing about the calls she heard mike say that he was the bad guy. that was the very first hint mike seemed to be trying to give anyone that something was wrong with him, the first real effort he made to warn them, despite not fully knowing what he was warning them of. and el's figuring it out. this perfectly matches up with what jonathan said at suzie's about the answers being hidden in the code, and with mike’s goal of warning el

we get our second elmike reunion of the season, and it's right this time. el gives him a once over when she first sees him, and she seems to realise very quickly that this is actually mike. his smile looks real. he’s wearing his signature colour. he hugs el the way he usually does. they do their cute little forehead touch thing that we saw in starcourt after vecna almost killed her. he's not wearing unnecessary sunglasses. he's not ignoring will

in contrast to the shitty knockoff comment from the airport reunion, we get this

el: oh, mike. is it really you? mike: it's me. i'm here. el: okay.

that's the most "loved one fighting off possession" dialogue ever. and there's no reason el would ask that question if she hadn't realised that he's been not mike at some point, because el isn't a character like mike or joyce or hopper or will who's had problems with not knowing what's real before

this is confirmation that despite vecna's interference, mike is still here. this is will speaking through morse code and just saying the word "here" after being given strength by mike and his family, just like mike was given strength by will. and el looks so happy about it that it suddenly makes me as emotional as the willel reunion does

then we get into the piggyback, which i think has some layers to it as an episode title. it's been said a lot that vecna's like el. not just that he has powers like her or that he's from the lab like her, but that he's like her. it's incredibly easy for me to believe that they think similarly enough to have the same ideas. using mike to get to el could be described as piggybacking

el came up with it by remembering the times she's gone into people's minds to find the source of why they changed. i think this could be part of the solution to getting mike back. it matches up with what suzie said about tracing the IP address. el will have to go into mike's mind to help him, finally letting us see everything that's been going on with him throughout the whole show. mike's role in the party is sharing vital information, so it wouldn't surprise me if he spies back on vecna like will did, especially since that was mike's idea in the first place, or shows el the way to find max or vecna's weakness

it's interesting that they keep calling it a mind fight too, because that doesn't really make me think of a fight in the mind. it sounds like a fight for the mind. and that's definitely not what happens with max, because her life is at stake, not her mind

over in russia, the adults finally hear about what’s going on

hopper: she said the doc's with the girl. and the girl went off to fight some evil in hawkins. then they all went off-grid. the doc, the girl, everybody. [...] and they're not alone. joyce's kids are with them.

mike isn't included in the group that's fighting vecna. this omission makes sense for argyle, because hopper doesn't know he exists and joyce has no reason to think he'd be with them, but there's no way in hell that mike would leave el or will in the middle of this. joyce knows that. joyce has seen firsthand how stubborn he is when will is in danger, and hopper came around to him being the same way with el by the end of season 3

i don't think this is a character thing. joyce only briefly saw mike acting weird at dinner after months of being nowhere near him and that isn't really enough to figure anything out, even for her. i think it was a very conspicuous decision for the writers to not align him with the strictly good guys’ side when they had the opportunity to

argyle making a pizza is included in the preparing for battle montage. it's funny, but it also implies that whatever happens with that pizza will be important to defeating vecna

then el and mike get their first real conversation. when mike puts the pizza box glasses on and confirms that they work, el is watching him like she's looking for something. it's only when he starts goofing around, like when he joked about his singing or made fun of himself with the M&Ms in season 3, that el relaxes and starts giggling and looking absurdly happy again. this is the way mike always tries to make el laugh. it's nothing like the lame socks joke from rinkomania

mike is literally in the dark. he can't see what's going on. el can

el: mike. mike: yeah? el: i… missed you. mike: yeah. yeah, i missed you too.

el is weighing her words very carefully. she doesn't know how much she can say to mike yet. and it really sounds like they've missed each other for longer than the few days separation, because they haven't really been together like this in months

from there mike brings up the monster/superhero fight again, and el just listens. she's feeling him out, waiting to see if he has some kind of explanation for what was going on there. because he was back to himself in the reunion scene, he was back to worrying about her safety and being relieved when she's okay. that was completely at odds with the superhero comment

argyle shows up with his pizza before mike can apologise or tell el that she doesn't need to act like a superhero for him to care about her. the pizza is for mike, it turns out, but he doesn't want it

and he shouldn't, right? wasn't food bad?

el: good. mike: it's good? what do you mean it's good? el: really good. mike: that's insane. that's blasphemous.

mike seems to think so. but then argyle and el conspire against him (and the fact that they're worried enough about him to make him eat something in the first place is really telling of how much trouble he's in), and he admits defeat and accepts more help

mike: okay, okay! no, you're right. it's good.

el says the pizza is good. jonathan and argyle said the risotto was good. will was eating at breakfast

mike wasn't eating the risotto when he disappeared and someone else filled his place. mike wasn't eating breakfast before he went up to el's bedroom and someone else filled his place. mike wasn't eating back in season 2 while his parents listed off all the ways he's bad and horrible, fundamentally, as a person. mike wasn't eating in the first episode when his parents said that he shouldn't look for will. nancy told mike that the things he likes to eat are disgusting in season 1

it was never about vecna. the food is mike. admitting that the food is good is admitting that he is good

el knows this. will knows this. jonathan knows this. argyle knows this, and he's only known mike for a week. the entire party knows this. dustin, lucas, joyce, max. even karen's catching on. ted thinks the game mike likes is lame and for nerds, but that it being called pure evil is ridiculous. nancy cried when she saw a vision of mike's dead body and used the desire to keep that from becoming reality as fuel to keep fighting

dustin told mike not to jump off the quarry. el always finds the strength to save mike. steve saved him in the tunnels. max freaked out when she thought he was dead at starcourt

mike constantly throws himself into dangerous situations with no care for his own safety. he put himself at high risk of getting shot during the shootout by physically shielding the others because he thought that would be better than will or jonathan getting shot, which jonathan had to put a stop to

everyone knows that mike wheeler is worth it. they're just waiting for him to catch up

that's what mike needs to beat this. he needs to realise that he, mike wheeler, is worth fighting for, exactly as he is. that his continued existence in this world is worth preserving. that he can't let himself disappear. fighting for his friends isn't enough, he has to fight for himself

here’s where we get into the mind fight, which mike isn’t really apart of, so there shouldn’t be a lot to say. right?

vecna: you think i don't see what you're doing? memory max: is mike a good kisser? vecna: you think i don't see everything?

no, it turns out there’s this very conspicuous placement of a mike mention in this part of the story. the dialogue in the memory montages this episode matter, and max's first one in the running up that hill scene had barely any dialogue because words don't seem to be the point for her. the point is the togetherness and joy and sense of belonging from having fun with her friends. if the point of that memory is el laughing, they could have just had that. they didn't have to include the line about mike right in the middle of vecna saying he sees everything, but they did. because vecna is watching mike, and watching el through mike

el was giving the cali crew updates the whole time she was looking for max. vecna only came for max when el said she was getting close so that he wouldn’t kill max too soon

into the red mind soup world we go! vecna monologues, tells el she's the monster, says that the whole point of this was for her to watch max die

vecna: all i needed was someone to open the door. and you did that for me. without even realising it. didn't you? and when you did realise, you chose to resist.

this would work perfectly if you put mike in this scene. mike was used to open the door to get el here. mike didn't know what he was doing. mike doesn't even need to fully realise what's happening to resist it

and now, we’ve finally reached the infamous monologue

mike asks if el can hear him a lot. the answer is yes, but she can't tell him. she can't tell him because of the vines. she can't tell him that she knows what he's been trying to say all week because mike isn't just mike anymore

mike: el? i don't know if you can hear this, but… but if you can, i want you to know i'm here, okay? i'm right here.

more confirmation that mike hasn't disappeared yet. that he's still in there. that there's still hope

then he starts getting into all the obvious lies. but the thing is, i don't think they're lies, because i don't think mike is the one saying them. mike is a good liar. vecna is giving the monologue. which means it's not a lie, it's just not true. and mike looks like he's fighting it the whole time. this is where the alternate interpretation of what a mind fight is comes in

at the end of season 3, max and mike were the ones with el when vecna chased her through starcourt. they tried to protect her from vecna. they stalled long enough to keep el from getting skewered and for joyce to close the gate. now el is trapped, max is being killed in front of her, and mike is monologuing down from the sky and making her cry. they are both being used to hurt el

el knows that mike hasn't loved her since the day they met, because she heard him say he wanted to send her back to pennhurst that first night. el knows that mike can live without her (if not happily), because he made it a whole year into her disappearance but less than a week into will's. el knows that mike's life didn't start the day he met her, because he tried to end it a few days later when she ran off and took any hope of finding will with her

it's not until mike calls el a superhero again that she realises exactly what's happening

el's reaction to mike saying he can't lose her looks like she's thinking the exact same thing. she knows something's wrong with mike, and she doesn't want to lose him either, because he was one of the first friends she ever made and she doesn't want him to disappear

mike starts parroting what brenner said about flying and moving mountains, and el looks angry. she looks at vecna, looming ominously over max, not lifting a finger to stop mike's supposedly good monologue. and then she's able to pull away from the vines

mike was a distraction. mike was keeping el from breaking away sooner and saving max and hawkins

this is what they meant by forced conformity killing the kids. mike didn't choose to conform to society's expectations of the nature of his relationship with el, he was forced into it. and max died because of it

max's plan didn't work. nancy's plan didn't work. el's plan didn't work. dustin's plan didn't work

joyce's plan did. joyce caught vecna off guard again. and it worked because she didn't tell the kids what she found out about hopper. mike had no clue what she was doing. he didn't know she was involved, and vecna distracted him before he could figure it out by himself

vecna screwed himself over. because despite all the posturing about being the superior specimen, vecna is not as smart as mike. that's why mike had to be free to find el. because mike is better than him. mike has foiled his evil plans over and over and over again. even now, when vecna's supposed to have total control, mike managed to warn el when he was only at 30% control against vecna's 70%, and he did it in a way where vecna doesn't even know she knows. vecna screwed himself over letting mike have even that much, because mike is better than him, whether he likes it or not

the gates opening -> mike urging el to wake up -> el reviving max

once again, mike is right in the middle of things that are happening because of vecna despite supposedly having nothing to do with it

the fact that he's crying is also a massive red flag. he's one of the most emotionally closed off characters on the show. he only cries when something's seriously wrong

he really is terrified of losing el, and he's spent the better part of the past week trying to figure out why he said something he didn't mean that pushed her into danger, and he just said a bunch more stuff he didn't mean, and she hasn't woken up yet, and if she never does it'll be his fault

two days later, mike is back to himself. the first thing he does is hug karen

karen: you are never going on vacation again, you hear me? in fact, you can forget about college. you are staying right here.

there’s more of mike being “here,” officially adding karen to the list of people who will probably be fighting for him in season 5

then we cut to jonathan and nancy

jonathan: this isn't an earthquake. i know. i know a lot more than you think. nancy: how? we've been trying to call you— jonathan: i know. i know, i'm sorry. we just couldn't risk contact. nancy: "we couldn't risk contact"? jonathan: hey, hey. i'll tell you everything, okay? i promise.

we know jonathan's very perceptive. jonathan sees things that people try to hide. jonathan's been with mike all week, jonathan's seen everything, and jonathan's hinting at having more answers than anyone would expect

i honestly think he has the best frame of reference for mike's normal behaviour. he's known him since he was five, he's older than him so has a better memory of certain points of his life (as illustrated by the toy up the nose story that will only vaguely remembered), and he didn't stop paying attention to him the second he stopped being cuter than his baby sister like the wheelers did

at the hospital, mike is in the same room as lucas for a grand total of ten seconds before lucas notices that something’s wrong with him

i can't for the life of me figure out what tipped him off. i have no idea what's going through his head or why he gives mike such a suspicious look, similar to el's from the pizza box glasses conversation. mike can't see lucas as he realises something’s wrong because it's during the hug, just like he couldn't see el before, which means that vecna can't see that they're onto him either

i'm confident that he was 100% mike at this point (with vecna still in his head, just dormant again), but the effect it's had on him is apparently still extremely noticeable to the people who know him very well

mike didn't seem to know that el brought max back to life. she didn't tell him, and she doesn't explain now either. he'll have to be in the dark on basically everything in season 5 for them to stand a chance, up until the point where they get him back properly, which is a major problem because mike is instrumental to figuring things out and making plans. hawkins literally fell apart without him

will looks concerned when he finds out how messy mike has gotten from nancy’s lighthearted jab about his bedroom. it seems like a lot of different people are collecting a lot of different pieces that they'll have to put their heads together to make sense of

when nancy talks to jonathan one on one again, they continue to hide what’s going on with mike behind the relationship drama. she says that she's glad jonathan was with mike first and will second, kind of as an afterthought, which is another hint towards jonathan knowing what's going on with mike

while they’re cleaning up the cabin, el not talking to mike goes from implicit to textual

will: did she… talk to you at all? mike: not much. i mean, a little bit.

this is exactly what jonathan was talking about. team hawkins was trying to call the byers, but they couldn't risk contact in case the government was listening. mike has been trying to call the byers, but they can't risk contact in case vecna is listening

i’m pretty sure this is what mike was going for in the first place. the idea of distancing himself from the group and el specifically. it’s exactly the kind of move he would pull, and it’s funny that they ended up going with what was originally mike’s plan because it’s just the best course of action. he came up with it days ahead of anyone else, based mostly on instinct and not the evidence that el and jonathan needed to collect over the week to figure it out

will: it's strange, knowing now who it was this whole time, but…

the camera is focused on mike as will says this. half of his face is in shadow, which conveys a sense of duplicity

we cut away for a second, but it comes back to mike for will to say that vecna won't stop until he's taken everything. vecna will likely try to completely take over mike's mind. possibly as a replacement body, because he knows they wouldn’t dare try the molotov cocktail trick when killing him means killing mike too. this matches up with what happened in season 2 and joyce's fear that will would cease to exist as the possession grew stronger

then the adults show up and mike gets an individual reunion with hopper, which kind of visually parallels the one with karen

hopper: you’ve grown. mike: yeah. you shrunk.

hopper’s comment puts him on the team of people who will be fighting to get mike back in season 5 too. staying “here” is connected to growth, and he’s happy to see that mike has grown, and he’s going to want him to keep doing that

mike’s part is more of the same of their dynamic from the start of season 3. mike is being annoying to show affection because hopper is one of the few adults he feels safe enough to act like an obnoxious teenager around. but hopper doesn’t get mad about it this time, he gets this fond smile on his face and initiates the hug. this is one more thing that mike’s been conditioned to think is bad about himself getting treated as good instead

hopper was vitally important to figuring out will’s possession. he was the first person joyce called and he’s the one who always figured out what will was saying when he found unconventional ways to communicate like through drawings or morse code. hopper’s probably going to do something similar for mike

[kakarorin]

Defending "The Road to El Dorado" from a couple racist claims, or how I, being so cheeky, like to call it: Covering myself in sugar in order to attract some nasty little bugs🐞

For some reason, 2024 seems to be the year when I can't tolerate "The Road to El Dorado is packed with racism" discourse anymore. A couple days ago, I stumbled across a very colourful gifset which encapsulated perfectly all the objectively wrong arguments (save for half... one... one and a half... It depends) I've ever seen people give out to explain why they don't like the movie (@/neechees: If by some unlikely chance you're reading this, I wish we could have talked about it calmly. I'm a very open-minded person, unlike you seem to be). I've seen them SO many times that I think I hit my limit. Long story short, I got defensive, which I regret, shame on me, told the op they were wrong, as they are, op responded, and I got blocked before I could respond back. I honestly don't know why they blocked me after responding. I don't know if they sensed I know much more about the Aztec Conquest than they do, but well... Occam's razor.

After I calmed down, tried to reach to them because I genuinely wanted to talk about it, and failed, I decided I was going to break their post down as minutely as I could, even if just to get it off my shoulders and toss it into the void, and polished what I told one of the people who reblogged op's post saying they were right into this lengthy post. Purely because I love debating about movies I love. And boy, do I LOVE this movie.

Before starting, I'm letting you know that, as far as I know, I'm 100% white. And I'm also from Spain (Europe. Clarifying this for the Americans), which understandably gives me the advantage of having lived (and living) through the subtle remnants of the wretched Spanish Black Legend. Yet none of these two things stopped me from looking up historical papers, podcasts and documentaries (further than YouTube's video essays, I mean) so I could understand that this sort of... slander was indeed, part of that concept. I don't see how being of a particular race or ethnicity gives you the right to speak about recorded history as objective facts without doing your research and applying your critical thinking to it, either. Does op think that just because they're Native-American, as they say (just in case, can't believe anything you read on the internet these days), a person who has spent hours, days, months educating themselves about Hernán Cortés, poor Malinche and the Aztec Conquest from serious sources can't have more knowledge than them? Smh, op, smh. It does give you right over feelings, and obviously, your own experiences, though. Hope you still understand that factual knowledge is an entirely different thing.

That being said, at the end of the day, save for the very easy-to-check historical facts (which I will provide sources for if asked, although I believe you can very easily research it yourself), this is my opinion about why "The Road to El Dorado" is regarded as much more racist than it actually is. If you want to give me yours or respond to it, please, by all means, do it. Respectfully and with clear and valid reasons, of course. Otherwise, I'll have to ignore you. Understand that what you read below is the limit of my thinking and reading. Enjoy, or hate. Call me a racist. Send a WHITE meme my way. Up to you.

I'd link you to the post, but I don't feel like it. They blocked me, after all. You can search my blog for it. It's tagged as "neechees". And be sure to read their tags on the post as well, for context. Anyway, here go their "objective truths". Debunking time starts... now:

(EDIT: This is filled with edits. See how my opinion can change and I can clarify or rectify? Anyway, stating the obvious, but I believe Spanish colonization is bad. In any part of the world. I won't give you a single good aspect of it, except for that at least it was based on a different mindset than British colonization. Maybe there are fairly good aspects. After all, they say Romans gave us Spaniards roads and sewage systems. We'd have to take a look at an alternative reality where it didn't happen to make an objective claim. But, believe me, if it had been for me, I'd have pushed Cortés off the ship a good bunch of nautical miles before he reached what is now known as Veracruz, whatever good things he ended up doing. Bear that in mind.)

1. The cultures are mashed up in one city, that is true. But there is no explicit racist (implying prejudice, discrimination or antagonism, as I understand racism, or as racism is actually defined) motive behind it. I don't think it's done out of unthoughtfulness, either. I'm pretty sure it's just done to leave the place ambiguous, because (tell you more later), with Cortés involved and what went down with him historically, that place is much more meant to be Tenochtitlán than the legendary city of El Dorado. They didn't want to make that so explicit because this is a retelling, after all (tell you more later). I honestly don't see how anyone could think that the resulting city and culture are portrayed in a negative way. Sometimes, I'm not even sure these people were paying attention when watching the movie (if they ever did). In fact, if it weren't for the title of their post, I wouldn't even understand the point in this.

2. Oh boy, this is exactly what triggered me to say something instead of just putting it on my blog silently. This is how I know the op has ZERO knowledge about the historical event behind it, because they wouldn't say this is right if they did. There is no such thing as a (EDIT:) sufficiently collective "Spanish lie that Native-American (NA) people believed they were gods" (NEVER listen to a Spaniard who claims this. EDIT: Like López de Gómara. They're delulu), this has never had any kind of historical relevance (in the outcome and influence of history, I mean), and the NA people in the movie are not worshipping the white guys because they're white. The whole plot, arriving in a city and being mistaken for a god because your arrival coincided with an ancient premonition in such a precise way that it is fascinating, is exactly what happened to Cortés when he reached the capital of the Aztec Empire, Tenochtitlán. He was believed to be the reincarnation of Quetzalcóatl, and that's why he could enter the city peacefully and live in it for a short amount of time. The concept of the movie seems to be "What if this, instead of happening to a conquistador (in which is implicit the catholic element) who quickly said he was no god when he realised what was happening (because of the sin of idolatry), happened instead to two atheist looters who are ultimately good-hearted (NOT colonizers, because they didn't try to claim the land or control it) who weren't stopped by the fear to sin and took advantage of the situation?" That's it. The premonition happened to fall on a white man hundreds of years ago (who also came from the east, same place Quetzalcóatl left to and said he'd return from) and so does in the movie story because it mirrors real history, and, again, I fail to see the negative portrayal in all of this because it's certainly NOT because they're white. I think the op also took it salty that I said they had zero knowledge about "the very people they're trying to defend", which I still believe, but this is complex and I'll only explain this if asked. What I meant by that, on the surface, is that NA people also enslaved NA people. I seriously hope op doesn't think NA slavery is more acceptable if it comes from other NA people than white people. Who knows, at this point.

3. This is essentially right. It's the only thing I think is mostly right, actually. It's no problem for me, though. I love Chel, she's beautiful and aesthetically pleasing to me. But I can understand why it may put someone off. All good. However, I still wanna say that the Aila test is just a way of assessing indigenous women representation as positive and negative, and not the work in itself as problematic if it doesn't pass it. The Lord of the Rings doesn't pass the Bechdel test and I have never seen anyone calling it problematic because of that, nor do I need positive representation (I'm a woman. Sort of. It fluctuates) on it to enjoy it. Although I figure I'd feel the same if I were NA, I can't and won't speak for one. So I still give you that.

4.1. This is wrong in three ways. First, Tzekel-kan is not "demonized as evil". He is evil. He's not evil because he's NA, he is evil because he killed, he lied, and he abused his power. There are NA people in the movie who are kind and good (everyone but him, I believe), and then there's him. In every race and ethnicity, there are good, neutral and bad people. And people who are sometimes good, and sometimes bad. If all the NA people were painted in a morally white and good way, that special treatment would come off as positive discrimination to me. Why can't he be a sociopathic genocider AND indigenous at the same time without being considered as racist? Does that mean all indigenous people have to be/are morally white? If all the other NA characters were demonized, I'd understand it, but it's the opposite. Also, Tzekel-kan is loosely based off Moctezuma, the (redundant) emperor of an Empire who enslaved other NA people. And, surprise, just like Cortés, I don't think the guy was evil. I think this is probably another reason why they didn't want to make clear the specific culture. I could see the racism if they had tried to directly compare Tzekel-kan with Moctezuma, I would perfectly be able to see the claim that Moctezuma was a sociopathic genocider, and I'd recognise that as racist. But in this case, it's just loose inspiration. Not a parody.

4.2. There was NO genocide in the Spanish NA colonies. There was NO legal slavery, save for a few unfortunate loopholes (tell you more later). (EDIT: careful, I'm NOT defending his monumental fuck-ups or justifying him in any way, just so you know. In my opinion, he was a fair lot more bad than good, but not 100% bad. If you get me) Hernán Cortés did a lot of undeniably wrong things, but he did good things too. I don't think you can say he was a good person, no person who'd say that would be a friend of mine, but I don't think he was a 100% evil person. Just a person, sometimes good and sometimes bad. Still, when he was bad, he was bad. And what op said about that they didn't care enough about him to write his name properly, BOY how that ticked me off. People, for all you hold dear, you have to CARE to know about such important historical figures in order to understand the history behind them and the outcomes of their actions. Especially within such a sensitive topic. It's when stories like this are ignored or forgotten, that history tends to repeat itself. The fact that I care to spell Hernán Cortés well has not the respectful positive connotation they think, either. And despite what you may believe, we Spaniards do NOT think he did everything right and much less that he was a hero. I think some Mexicans think we all do, but I don't know why. Only the most idiotic "fachas" (ultraright people) do.

4.3. One, he was not enslaved (tell you more later). Two, well, since he tried to mass-murder the inhabitants of the city, I... I do reckon putting him away was a good ending. Jesus, he tried to purge the city of citizens HE deemed unworthy in the name of a divine power (=on a religious basis) with the clear intention to wipe them out. It's clearly stated more than once throughout the movie. If you didn't know, by objective definition, the name of that starts with 'G' and ends with 'ENOCIDE'. And when that failed, he actively tried to drive the colonizers to them. Only because of that, he was technically much more of a genocider than the historical Cortés ever was. Are his actions really justified just because he's indigenous? Doesn't he deserve a punishment just because of it? I see "slavery" (if it were. Since enslaving NA in Spanish colonies was illegal at the time, I'd say he was kidnapped, in the strict sense of the word. Bit funny to word it like that) as a punishment more than fitting for his crimes. I think you all should drill this into your head: ANY abusive leader involved in (I can't believe I'm going to say this, but socially unacceptable) murder deserves to be punished in some way independently of his race, ethnicity or religion. This is something I believe firmly, so you have very little room to debate with me on this one. Do try, if you want.

By the way, I LOVE Tzekel-kan to death. Just the way he is. A charismatic, fanatical, sociopathic fictional high priest who tried to cleanse his city in the name of his gods through murder and human sacrifice, a practice that the other NA inhabitants very obviously did NOT enjoy (well, that definitely rings a historical bell). If you hadn't noticed, or perhaps thought it was impossible, let me tell you this: you can actually love evil characters without justifying their actions. It's legal. 100%. Unlike slavery in NA Spanish colonies at the time.

5. I don't see exactly how spirituality is portrayed as evil. More specifically, I don't see how the movie's actual magic is considered Aztec spirituality. Not a fan nor a hater of Hazbin Hotel, but I've seen one of the demon characters around Twitter using literal voodoo in a very unthoughtfully wrong way. That's a big no-no, in my opinion. And I see a clear difference with this because there is nothing in the stone jaguar magic that single-handedly resembles what Aztec religion actually was. I'm not saying this can't be done in a wrong way with indigenous NA spirituality, nor that they didn't take elements from it (they did), I just think that with all the context behind the movie, here it's just magic that serves a plot function. Aesthetic Aztec/Maya patterns appear here and there, arguably because those are the "places" where it's geographically based (and because Tzekel-kan is loosely based off Moctezuma, who was the religious spiritual leader who received the Quetzalcóatl premonition), but at the end of the day, I don't think it's much more than the fantasy you typically find in a kids' movie. No specific religion was portrayed as evil, no specific gods were portrayed as evil, the magic in itself wasn't portrayed as evil. In the movie, it was black magic because Tzekel-kan, who was evil, used it for evil. Who says that a giant stone cat can ONLY serve evil purposes? I'd use it for good, personally. Maybe transportation. Maybe architecture. Decoration. Festivities. (CW: 26-year-old making a boomer joke) Maybe to instill cordial fear among my neighbours.

EDIT: I've been thinking about this these days and I realised that in the specific stone jaguar "spell", Tzekel-kan needs to toss his poor aide into the mix for it to "activate". That is much more evil than neutral, so maybe I can kind of see this point now. And human sacrifice was part of some of these religions, after all, so maybe it does point towards Aztec spirituality. Still, as it didn't come off as evil to me until I've THOROUGHLY thought about it, I feel like questioning things. Does the "spell" need a human body, or an animal body would have served? The "recipe" doesn't state anything. It's Tzekel-kan who pushes him in. Do ALL the "spells" need a body to "activate"? Maybe not. I feel like maybe I can give you a part of this argument. But still... Hmm. I don't know. We were stuck with an evil religious high priest, but that doesn't necessarily mean ONLY he could use magic. Nor that ALL the magic was evil. But yeah, alright. I can sort of see this now... a bit.

6. I can give you this... for the most part. Knowing it mirrors history, and that historically, it was white men who rid the NA people enslaved by the Aztec Empire (which I believe is what the people of El Dorado ended up portraying, somehow oppressed by Tzekel-kan's sacrifices) of the Aztec Empire (even if woefully just to take their place), I'm not sure it's so simple. I still don't fully see it as plain white saviour narrative with that background info. In any case, I think my mind can be changed about this with the right argumentation. Surely not by a person who has no knowledge about history. Sorry, op.

7.1. For my next trick, I'll blow your mind: Cortés was no big bad evil genocider. He wasn't a golden-hearted saint or saviour either. Frankly, I believe most people think he was similar to Christopher Columbus (of whom I don't know as much, but sounds pretty 100% evil to me with what I have) by default. I'm also very certain they watched the movie and took that version of him as a faithful representation, but in reality he was very different. He was short, he was slender, he was way more charismatic, way less solemn and serious, and he had the reputation of a womanizer. He committed atrocities, like torturing and murdering the last Huey Tlatoani for rumours (Jesus, the Cholula massacre), but he also treated most indigenous people with respect (when he wasn't pathologically obsessed with gold), he talked with Moctezuma as if he were his kin, he always tried to negotiate before grabbing his arms, he listened to and followed the advice of an indigenous woman (Malinche). And once he had done the deed, his reputation was sunk, he was stripped of most of his titles and compensation for what he had done (karma? Possibly), and he had practically no say in the new territories. He went there for the gold above all, and all the crimes he committed were in its name. But unlike Miguel and Tulio (this is the reason why they're not colonizers, only looters), he ALSO wanted to seize control of the land for the Spanish Empire. As an anti-colonialist Spaniard, I can't help boiling up in anger every time I see someone call Miguel and Tulio colonizers. They are NOT coloziners, just like we are NOT colonizers. Our country was, hundreds of years ago. The people who claimed that land as theirs and believed that gave them the right to exploit it for centuries were. And believe me, if we're still here and have descended from humble families for more than 5 centuries, none of our ancestors saw a single piece of gold.

7.2. This is part of a broader topic but Cortés acted in the name of the Spanish Empire, who, thanks to Queen Isabella the Catholic and the laws she passed, considered NA people as citizens of the Crown and therefore could not be enslaved (legally), not to mention genocided. Physically genocided, I mean, because the cultural genocide is undeniable. And still, while so many parts of so many different cultures disappeared, some things like the Maya and Nahua languages were kept. Even if little, that means something. I find some comfort in that, especially when you take a look at what happened to indigenous people in British colonies. In relation to this, there's this something that's been haunting Spain since a thousand years ago that gains relevance when talking about this, called the Spanish Black Legend. Basically anti-Spain propaganda coming from other European countries demonizing everything the country had done/does. It started out of rivalry and envy. Nowadays, it's hard to say. This is why Hernán Cortés is always seen as an evil genocider, but not other colonizers like Julius Caesar from the Roman Empire. It also makes my blood curdle because it sticks with us in the most annoying ways possible. While American people tend to think Spain is part of Latin America, European people tend to think we're dumb, don't know other languages apart from Spanish and only like partying, and our collective international sentiment, especially facing other Europeans, is often shame. Ashamed to say you're from Spain, because there's only so many "España mucho fiesta and siesta" a sane person can take from people who only come to your country to raise the living costs, drink, sunbathe and throw themselves off balconies to jump in hotel pools. Look "balconing" up. God I HATE British people. In any case, to wrap this up, this Black Legend is also why everyone believes the Spanish colonization was the same as the British colonization. By norm, the British predated, but the Spanish generated (in America, because the Spanish DID enslave African people), despite all the horrible things it did. Because it did them.

Lastly, and just because it was also part of op's response, I want to say that I have no opinion about what negative impact this movie could have in terms of being a version of the Colombian legend of El Dorado. I don't know anything about that. I don't understand it, either. If someone wants to explain to me in which specific ways making a movie like this about it could be harmful to anyone (not the legend in itself, I think you can see I know as much), please tell me so I can think critically about it and contrast it. But please, specify the harm and consequences so I can understand them.

Jesus, I'm tired, but I want to say you CAN dislike the movie. I don't give two floating specks of dust whether you do or don't. What I do care about is that most arguments people use to say so are wrong, or rather, lack historical knowledge to support them. Or rather, there is historical knowledge which flat-out cancels them out. There IS negative portrayal on the basis of unthoughtfulness (like Chel and the Aila test), but NEVER in a mean way. On the whole, it's not the unsalvageable blatantly racist skeleton that has to be kept in the closet under lock and key that some people think it is. And, by the way, I'm very curious about why I have yet to see the same discourse about Inca portrayal in "The Emperor's New Groove". Feel free to toss it my way in case it exists and it's just I haven't seen it yet.

If you've reached this point, congratulations. Here's a disturbing little fact about me as a reward: this whole fixation that I have started because in 2020 I had a dream about this Hernán Cortés and Tzekel-kan having sex.

[mrslectermoriarty]

Headcanon Series #12

Here goes some Stranger Things stuff because I finally watched it yes it broke me so here I give you some Eddie centered Headcanons because that guy is 100% me as a fictional character and I died with him in the Upside Down which makes him a huge inspiration :)

Yes I ship Steddie so fuck off if you don't like it

1. Eddie always humming some metal or rock songs, most times without even realising it (that's how Steve learns all the great bands)

2. When Eddie finally graduates, Hellfire throws him a party and honours him with a framed picture of him and "Hail to thee our infantry, still brave eyond the grave"

3. No but seriously, they definetly honoured him post mortem

4. There is this black stray cat in the neighbourhood who keeps scratching at his door so Eddie feeds it and adopts it eventually

5. He names it Ozzy because it once brought him a dead bat as a present and Eddie still a little uncomfortable around bats almost pees his pants because no way his cat just helped him deal a little better with that trauma

6. Ozzy becomes his mental support animal from then

7. That cat is a little sceptical about the kids at first but as soon as Dustin enters, it won't let go of him because let's be honest Dustin is so Eddie's son

8. Eddie is convinced that Ozzy can read his mind

9. Or that Ozzy is from the Upside Down which freaks him out a little but untill now Ozzy hasn't tried to slaughter him in his sleep so he gets comfortable eventually

10. Eddie and Steve move together in a cute little house

11. Corroded Coffin goes on tour one day and of course Eddie takes Steve with him but the kids (who are no longer kids but it doesn't matter) won't let both of their parents "leave them alone to rot in the town" so they all join and Steve has a little breakdown because ge will end up being a babysitter again and he's not okay with that

12. Of course he is, he loves his children

13. Ozzy can't be left behind and in the end the tour bus is stuffed with people

14. The kids are Corroded Coffin's biggest fans and love to brag about how they know all members personally

15. Eddie doesn't throw his guitar pick during concerts, he hands out dices - just for the flavor

16. He will happily sign anything for you with "The Munson Killer" if you ask him about the homicides during autograph session

17. Yes, his name was cleared by the government pretty fast after the earthquake but people are still a little uncomfortable around him - he takes it with humour

18. Since its the 90s where you can only be subtly gay, Steve and Eddie get pseudo married in Mike and El's yard in autumn after the tour ends - Argyle comes down to Hawkins to be their wedding officiant (they don't regret a single moment during the ceremony, it was hilarious) Robin ist Steve's Maid of Honour and Eddie asks Nancy because honestly, Nancy may have had eyes for Steve for a while when Jonathan was back but she saw the looks Eddie and him exchanged when they thought the other one wasn't watching and that tension so she eventually sat Eddie down and told him to ask Steve out and they kind of bonded over the years after that because in the end there is an understanding among those who love Steve Harrington

19. Steve gifts Eddie Metallica cards as their 'honeymoon' - Eddie cries for half an hour

20. He pays Steve back by slamming adoption papers on the kitchen table on their anniversary in 2006 with the words "You got me everything I could dream of back then. My turn. Bam."

22. Eddie and Steve got properly married in 2014 when same-sex marriage became legal again, surrounded by their three kids and their kids with their own children - "Why do I feel so old, Eddie?" "Because you are old. Now smile for the pictures, Grandpa!"

24. And yes, of course they had very exhausting negotiations about the number of kids they'd have

[givehimthemedicine]

El was able to revive Max with basically cpr because she wasn't dead dead, just in cardiac arrest, but that still constituted win conditions for Henry to open the gates.

what if I told you the basis for all Henry's curse gates isn't death but specifically the stopping of hearts

you might say that Hawkins FELL APART while Max was WITHOUT HEART.

ps,

telling his mom about the wave being 7'+ was so important to Billy that bringing up that detail is literally what stopped him in his tracks from ending the world

wait I wasn't 100% serious about this part when I started screenshotting but actually this would explain why even though Chrissy, Max and Virginia were all murdered indoors, Chrissy was the only one who went totally horizontal. what if she had to to get at least 7 feet off the ground because the trailer is the only murder site with a low ceiling

@aemiron-main sorry to keep poking you but this is a twofer, the second part being that har har the news network covering the Hawkins earthquake is cbs because their logo is an eye but it made me think of your recent post about the Wheelers' skis

[katimanki]

you sound bitter bc the “art stealer” is getting more notes on posts than you. I know them irl. they also don’t claim the art as theirs, they’re just sharing it on this platform. the artwork they are posting is all over the internet, mainly Pinterest, without any indication who the artist is. they give credit when they know who the artist is. they literally changed the post to include credit as soon as you gave them the original artist’s instagram handle, despite you claiming that they did nothing.

I am aware that I sound very bitter. I am allowed to. You're saying that I am not allowed to feel bad or bitter when I see someone steal, and get interactions on their stolen posts? And yes, in this case they have reached higher notes than most of mine. But when I called this out the first time, they didn't, the elmax art had just around 100 and this el one had 14 notes.

I have seen stolen art on the Byler tag before that got zero notes. ZERO. And that also made me want to call that person out. I didn't, but I still think about digging up that post and doing it. So I don't know what to tell you, art theft makes me mad every time, but yes, in this instance the amount of notes has a part in my actions. Because now it's not just about the op deleting the post, because that doesn't delete it from this platform completely. It will stay here as long as there are reblogs of it.

You're really trying to justify art theft? Art theft is never justified. Just because the art has been stolen several times already and is all over pinterest as you say, DOES NOT make it okay for more people to be spreading it around. I highly doubt any artist posts their art on pinterest, (my art has been posted there and it was terrible) so it is safe to assume that if you find art on pinterest it is already stolen.

And just like op you're trying to justify art theft by saying, they don't claim it as their own. They only wanted to share it to this platform, you say? And that isn't stealing? When it's still posted without the artist knowing or conseting? Interesting. Well, that's not cool. It's not right. It is not justified, and it's still stealing, no matter what you say.

And you also say there's no indication to who the artist is. (You're also using the exact wording as the op did in DMs. I'm not gonna say it but I'm thinking it) The elmax art had the artist handle right in the middle of it. You call that "no indication"?

Also it took me about two minutes to figure out the original artists and to find the original posts. So it really is not that hard to find them. And if you can't, then don't post it. And even if you do, still don't repost other people's art because they aren't consenting to it. This is what the elmax art had in the description. Doesn't seem like your friend even checked out the artist after I told them who it is.

And fine, I admit saying they did nothing is not completely true. I was going to bed and trying not to ramble in the tags of that post. I'm sorry that I spread misinformation like that. They did do something, they added the artist credit to the description. But as we already established, that artist doesn't allow reposts. And also, if you don't know how tumblr works editing the original post after there are reblogs, only edits the original post, not the reblogs. So now there are reblogs of that art with no credit floating around tumblr.

Honestly I know that reasoning with people who have stolen art never works. My art has been stolen on Instagram and for two years I have asked for it to be taken down(yes the repost has more likes then mine, I am allowed to feel bad about that). I just really wish it never happened in the first place but the world can't be that perfect now can it?

[error404vnotfound]

in which i rank the whole seliriaverse

as of July 5th 2024

how to read this tier list:

books are indeed in order (which was very hard)

the symbols next to the book titles indicate whether they have gone up, down or stayed in their rank in respect of this prediction tier i made (and/or previous opinion i had of those books years ago)

i did in fact change the tiers up a bit because i had like half of this in F tier and not all bad books are made equally

kind of a long post

sueños de piedra tier

this tier is for sueños de piedra and sueños de piedra only because it's one of my favorite books of all time and it would be unfair to rank the rest with it in mind

sueños de piedra (marabilia #1)

573 pages / ya fantasy

first read 2017 / read: too many times to be counted

i've read this book like 100 times and i'll read it again. it made me cry so much but i felt so good after too. this book never fails to warm my heart <3

A tier

10/10 screaming crying throwing up i love these books

-- ladrones de libertad (marabilia #3)

638 pages / ya fantasy

first read 2018 / read: 4 times

i cried and that's an instant fave. i loved this book so much in the past (and i still do) but not with the same intensity and i think that's okay

-- jaulas de seda (marabilia #4)

637 pages / ya fantasy

first read 2018 / read: 3 times

another past fave of mine. i just love fausto and ivy so much. it did suffer from the *knowing* about reinos de cristal. they are so cute tho. if experienced on a vacuum it belongs here, if not on the tier below

B tier

10/10 too i do love these books too but not as much as the A tier ones

-- encuentros (secretos de la luna llena #2)

737 pages / ya fantasy

first read 2018 / read: 3 times

the drama. the angst. the mess. i love it. i did skim through the povs of characters im not too invested in (because this book is. so long man) but eirene and seaben just carried i love them so much. and chryses

↓ alianzas (secretos de la luna llena #1)

653 pages / ya fantasy

first read 2018 / read: 4 times

the plot of this book is very fucked up in the best way possible. eirene and seaben my beloveds (i did give it a slightly lower rating than previously but i guess that just happens sometimes)

el sol y la mentira (olympus #2)

592 pages / ya retelling-sci-fi (ish)

first time reading (2023)

my expectations for this book 🤝 what it delivered. very fun 10/10 reading experience

-- despedidas (secretos de la luna llena #3)

572 pages / ya fantasy

first read 2018 / read: 3 times

a good ending for the journey :] there's no eirene and seaben drama so i enjoyed it less and i do not care for the fay and svent plot. also chryses' death is mean

-- alma y los siete monstruos

228 pages / middle grade about mental health

first read 2021 / read: 2 times

such a good book. would recommend it to everyone. i did tear up a bit too

C tier

this was a pleasant reading experience :]

imperio

672 pages / ya distopia

first read 2024

started strong but then became too formulaic in a way that detracted from the experience. overall i did enjoy it. it was fun and dynamic and the characters were all interesting and fun to read. the ending did disappoint me. the thg x unwind at home

personally disliked that a couple that broke up came back together but i can get over that. i can't get over not committing to the bit tho and for that the book is just okay and not great

-- antihéroes

520 pages / ya urban fantasy

first read: 2018 / read: 2 times

what it says on the can (tier description). it's just an okay book. very easy to read too which looking around is a big ass thing on its favor. it's funny, and i love yeray. im not as attached to the rest of the cast (and i do despise alicia), but it's a fun, easy read

-- rojo y oro

446 pages / ya fantasy retelling

first read 2016 / read: 2 times

the only good thing i can say about this book is that i wasn't bored so... i feel that speaks for itself. an okay tragedy. interesting enough

D tier

what if i told you that i got bored 💀

↓ títeres de la magia (marabilia #2)

521 pages / ya fantasy

first read 2018 / read: 3 times

i don't care about the characters and i was very bored. can't in good conscience put it over books i've enjoyed the whole of just because i got my arthmael and lynne fix

↓ reinos de cristal (marabilia #5)

688 pages / ya fantasy

first read 2019 / read: 2 times

respectfully your honor: idgaf about 60% of the plots. also the whole fausto thing. the first time i read this i was devastated about it but now (4 years later) i can see that his death is just incredibly dumb and stupid and i hate it and it also lowkey ruins jaulas de seda. like títeres i did struggle with having it this low because lynne and arthmael are on it but even my love for them can't fix this mess

↓ el orgullo del dragón (el dragón y el unicornio #1)

562 pages / ya steampunk (ish)

first read 2019 / read: 2.5 times

what can i say except: i was very bored. technically it's an extremely well crafted and well written book and it does an excellent work of laying the groundwork for part 2. but again, it was VERY boring

E tier

these books did not achieve what they set out to do

la furia y el laberinto (olympus #3)

538 pages / ya retelling-sci-fi (ish)

first time reading (2023)

the main character was unlikable (in a bad way) and suffered from the authors being cowards and not making her unhinged. the adventures they go on are boring and overall pointless. at the top of this tier because i came up with a genius ending that made it worth the pain (the canon ending was fun too)

pétalos de papel

544 pages / new adult contemporary fantasy romance

first time reading (2024)

the Point of this book is to make you attached to the main couple so they can then pull a memory loss ending with an epilogue. needless to say, they failed the first main point. i did not buy their relationship, i did not care whether they ended up together or not, or if they did if she forgot him. it also had very dumb plot points that tried to be dramatic but sounded stupid

i did chuckle at a couple of jokes

el eco del destino (timekeeper #1)

477 pages / ya fantasy

first time reading (2024)

boring. so much yapping in the internal monologue of the characters that got repetitive real fast. all the characters felt like the same and they faced problems in the most stupid way possible (for the plot)

the world building (the point of the book) was all over the place and not great at all. it was an amalgamation of stuff with no connecting tissue tying it all together, and even the things that were connected made no fucking sense

seremos el huracán

526 pages / ya contemporary retelling (ish)

first time reading (2024)

go girl give us nothing. fail book because its mediocrity was bad. bland. didn't achieve either of the two things it should have: make the reader believe the synergy of the band members, and their romances. characters only interact on page with their love interest, which impedes them forming bonds with the rest of the group, and then this interactions are so surface level and one dimensional that you don't see why they then say they are in love with each other

it also left the grief plot completely underutilized (which was honestly just an excuse to have a cross dressing character in the boyband)

la venganza del unicornio (el dragón y el unicornio #2)

664 pages / ya steampunk (ish)

first time reading (2023)

this one did achieve what it set up to do but it did it in a way that ruined the whole ass book when it could have been a C tier, even B tier. the ending destroyed all the groundwork the first book painstakingly set. it went from a grounded, tonally serious story to something completely out of the ballpark. the tonal shift was so jarring it gave me whiplash. and for that, it's the lowest one in this tier

not a fail book because the first 400 or so pages were very enjoyable

F tier

devastating: your favorite authors published a fail book

anne sin filtros

384 pages / ya contemporary retelling (ish)

first time reading (2023)

i get so mad when thinking about this book. i could look past the poor writing but they went and ran over anne and diana's beautiful friendship to turn it into them being horny for each other and that's it and im. so tired of the allos

la flor y la muerte (olympus #1)

632 pages / ya retelling-sci-fi (ish)

first time reading (2023)

i was so bored it was insane. even if it's actually shorter than other books higher in here it felt longer. also, it's a bad book on a technical level, not for the writing style but for its structure. time skip(s) killed this book. there's also 0 chemistry in between characters (even those we have to believe are in love)

i have a whole ass rant on this on the tag

soulcial

506 pages / ya contemporary romance

first time reading (2023)

im so brave for not dnfing this book. did i skip most of the scenes? yes. didn't affect my understanding of the plot whatsoever. read like a bad hallmark movie. like. not even a fun one or one you can hate watch (read). just. bad. i dont like saying this but it's actual garbage. the plot is braindead. it's not even well written

and so we reach the end of the tierlist and the end of the reading marathon

if you read through all that thank you. hope you enjoyed my journey (and my pain) <3

[runninguplenorahills]

Idk which post y’all are talking about where someone said Will was being a dick at rink-o-mania but if you want to argue that Will wasn’t being a dick then Mike wasn’t either🤷‍♀️

Simply since the only reason y’all think Will wasn’t being a dick is because we got those scenes from his perspective. We know why and how excited Will was to see Mike so when Mike doesn’t hug him at the airport we feel with Will and how disappointed he is. From then on he’s moping, barely talking and rolling his eyes at everything and that’s a fact like, Mike wasn’t exaggerating at all and Will also doesn’t deny it but tells him how uncomfortable thirdwheeling made him feel. And we’ve seen Will third wheeling throughout the whole of those scenes so we understand why Will is acting like a dick which is why y’all are so quick to excuse his actions and say he wasn’t being a dick. Even though he actually did behave like an asshole (ignored Mike the whole day) to the point where Mike told him that he sabotaged the day for him! Here we get Mike’s perspective of the day for the first time and I’m honestly baffled by how quick y’all are to excuse Will’s actions at rink-o-mania and defend him just because there’s a reason to his actions but despite the fact that we literally talk about Mike’s reasons for his own actions on here almost every single day y’all still label him as a dick???? Still label him as “the bad guy” because “just because he has reasons to act the way he does doesn’t mean he wasn’t still being a dick” but somehow that doesn’t apply to Will???

And I’m really not trying to be mean here but y’all really need to get your perspectives straight because I will never understand how people get mad over the fact that Mike said Will ruined his day and not Angela even though the answer to that is literally at hand! Rink-o-mania was only a fraction of the whole day and Will basically ignored and rolled his eyes at Mike ever since Mike arrived in Lenora! Yes, Mike is to blame for this because of that weird ass airport hug but just because there’s a reason as to why Will acted like a dick doesn’t mean he wasn’t still acting like a dick!! And he was acting like one throughout the whole fucking day! Airport, drive to the breakfast burrito place, stay at the breakfast burrito place, drive to rink-o-mania and stay at rink-o-mania. Will barely talked to Mike throughout all of that so of course that’s what sabotaged the day for Mike and not Angela because 1). Will has been Mike’s closest friend since forever and during the months they spent apart from each other they lost contact for which both are to blame equally as much! So Mike was probably feeling anxious and unsure about wether Will actually missed him/still cared about him! 2). That’s one reason why Mike was kinda icing Will out at the airport and I can imagine that he didn’t even fully pick up on how excited Will was at first since he was focused on acting indifferent. And 3). Will’s demeanor changed instantly to icing Mike out so from Mike’s perspective it seemed like Will wasn’t happy to see him which confirmed Mike’s fear that Will doesn’t care about him anymore. And like, Mike never acted like Angela bullying El wasn’t horrible! But quite frankly, realizing that my best friend doesn’t care about me anymore while I still care so much about them would absolutely crush my whole day above anything else too because that’s the kind of hurt that runs deep! Especially when you add to that that Mike is in love with Will! That’s why Mike uses El’s name instead of his own when confronting Will! He did it to protect his own feelings. And y’all think Mike didn’t realize he was being stupid when Will told him about the thirdwheeling? Didn’t get the biggest reality check that it was his own fault that Will was icing him out? He 100% did! And that look Mike gives Will after “Well what about us?” that everyone goes feral over to this day? That’s when Mike realizes that Will does actually still care about him and their connection and it overwhelms him that Will was able to look right through him so he’s getting defensive again! Mike ices out Will again which is why Will thinks he was wrong in assuming that Mike was hurt that he didn’t talk to him! “You don’t have to say anything, I was being a total jerk to El, I deserved it” that’s what Will says after Mike tries to apologize! Will is not the one apologizing for acting like a dick to Mike not because he wasn’t acting like one, but because at that moment he still didn’t get that the point was that he hurt Mike! That’s why Mike tells Will that he feels like he lost him! He realized that him icing Will out lead to Will icing him out and that’s why he’s like no look Will, you didn’t deserve what I said to you because I understand why you acted the way you did so let me tell you why I acted the way I did! That’s mostly the reason why Will is tearing up in that scene, not only because Mike apologizes but because Mike let’s him know that he still cares about him deeply!!

So they both had good reasons to act like dicks to each other but they also both still acted like dicks! Yes, Will too!

[eightfifteen]

Omg i'm so angry right now. I was on youtube and a short called "the old Mike cared so much about his friends" was recommended to me abd it was about Mike jumping to save Dustin and all the comments were about what a shitty friend he is now, how he doesn't care anymore ... EXCUSE ME DID ANY OF THEM CARED TO ASK HIM HOW IS HE DOING? sorry, but i did read Lucas on the line and Lucas at a point even comments on how he prefered the shitty mopy Mike better than the real Mike. Eleven cut him short and just invalidated his feelings and experiences, Dustin sees Mike's sadness as whining. Do they know what is happening to him? No, and they don't seem to even care. The only people to ever aknowledge that something might be up with Mike

Karen - but most of the time it feels like she is doing it because she is supposed to

Hopper - because he understood the damaged he let Mike go throw with for a year

Will - and this one is the worst, because Will told him everything Mike needed, and he has been there for Mike to open up and try to share what is actually going on with him (at least a part of it) and then he said those feelings were from the person who invalidated him.

You know what? I'm starting a crusade against everyone who is against/hates Mike Wheeler. Now it is personal.

This made me go on a rant about Karen for like 500 words but dw i put it in a different post. Anyway, you're so right and I'm with you 100%. Mike wasn't even with his friends for most of season 4 - don't tell me he doesn't care about them or i'll literally break your legs.

The audience reaction is so sad, specifically because the reason they miss Mike's feelings and dismiss his struggle, is because he's always in the scene with someone struggling more obviously than him. The reason people think he is doing fine, is because in any given scene he's helping someone who's struggling more than him, pushing his own inner struggles aside. He's either with El or with Will, both characters having gone through some of the worst shit in the show and both in love with him and "suffering by his hand".

So, his feelings get dismissed even when the scene is about him - like that one scene in the junk yard when they talk about what Mike should have said and Will says that line about "sometimes it's scare to open up."

That scene was supposed to be a window into Mike's character and issues, but the GA still focus on Will because he's dealing with something more obvious/more complicated/more painful(?). People who take it at face value as him literally just talking about El, think Mike isn't suffering as much as Will is so they think it's a scene to set up Will's feelings and don't bother looking at Mike who's screaming for help.

Which is why I think those "Mike and Lucas getting into a fight in s5" ideas have such a huge appeal - because Mike, as usual, is going to be in the scene with someone struggling more obviously than him, and they're going to dismiss Mike's feelings and pretend like he's been fine this whole time even though he's literally been feelings exactly what Lucas is feeling for FOUR SEASONS STRAIGHT. But this time Mike isn't going to stay silent and the audience can finally go oh.

[will80sbyers]

ngl sometimes I read some posts and I'm confused on how some people here believe Mike believed he had a crush on El without actually having one but at the same time they can't understand that others could think that Mike could not be intentionally or consciously lying in his monologue and is just believing what he says even when it's not 100% "true"... like the concept is the same... what is confusing about the fact that people could think that Mike did believe what he told El even if it's not 100% accurate but it's just what he thinks he's feeling in that moment? it's like when he said he loved her the first time out loud, he did think that but was that him being really in love? I personally don't think so... like, at one point I did believe I loved one of my ex partners but then thinking more about it after some time I understood that what I felt was just infatuation not true love, for another one I knew I was in love and I still know I was and I still feel that love in a way... it happens irl

so even if you personally believe he was intentionally lying, which is totally fair obviously, it's not that unthinkable or unreasonable that others could have a different point of view and think that Mike does believe what he's saying to El even if it's not the full truth and that love that he feels is not the "true love" type...

in the end he's still 14, he's a child in his first relationship... he could really think something in that moment but then growing up he finds out that's not the truth because his actions don't match with what he thought previously... and he could find out that that wasn't true romantic love that uplifts you and makes you learn about yourself like the love Will has for him but just infatuation combined with deep platonic fondness that Mike and El have without any doubt for me

[willel]

I agree with you that it’s not like we have all the pieces and it’s a matter of guessing how they could tell a consistent story all taken together. That said, I think that Henry’s life in 1959, the origin of the indigo program and dimension X seem to have something in common, and it’s about the origin and the nature of the powers of the "numbers" and how it relates to other dimensions, something that Brenner may have known or guessed bf anyone else. So it goes beyond El, or Will or even Henry maybe, and that’s why Willel fighting Vecna seems like a side or secondary plot to me that I’m less excited about post S4. Unless it’s the only way to learn about the missing pieces?

Ah, you speak of the theories of where powers originate? I know people speculate that their power is from Dimension X/The Upside Down, but that particular theory doesn't quite mesh with me.

I only say that because we know the Duffers were deeply inspired by Stephen King and they even mention multiple of his novels as inspiration. They're even heading a new movie/series I think for one of his books.

Here's how powers usually originate in Stephen's universe, I'm sure you'll find some similarities:

The Shining

Carrie

Firestarter

As you can see, powers are something that manifests naturally but can also be triggered or forced to "awaken" with government experiments ad drugs. Just like Stranger Things.

Maybe the ST writers will tie the origin of powers to Dimension X/The Upside Down but I don't think they have to.

People with powers are the equivalent of mutants from X-Men. There's not really a rhyme or reason why people are mutants, it just kinda happens and can cause all kinds of disasters if not controlled properly.

As for Dr. Brenner, he was a very smart man but also very ignorant. I think if he knew Dimension X/The Upside Down existed, he wouldn't have so haphazardly threw his experiments in a room together or made the most powerful one an attendant for the rest of them. Brenner wanted to be somebody by being the master of all these children who actually could've been somebody if not for him.

I don't think he knew it existed until El yeeted Henry to another dimension. But once he learned it existed, he spent all his time training her to interact with it someday (while also training her to be a spy for the government, as his contract probably requires)

Brenner is dead and the government probably burned all their documentation about the Upside Down a long time ago. Henry is pissed off and isn't going to just nicely answer any questions the protags might have.

If there are more answers to learn about the Upside Down, then those answers will have to come about through the combined effort of Will and El. Will especially is deeply connected to that place even if he doesn't want to be. El can dive into memories and get answers from Henry by force if it comes to that. The only other way I can think of is if Owens knows something more (which I'm 100% sure he does) and he becomes the exposition dump...but I think it'd be a lot more entertaining for Will and El to accidentally learn things along the way rather than just being told by someone.

As for Dimension X/The Upside Down itself, I have written theories about what it is. I basically see if like... well here's an example. Have you ever played a Persona game? Namely Persona 5 in this case since it's much more obvious. No spoilers, but in the game, the protagonists can enter a rift called the "Metaverse". The Metaverse is formed by the collective thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc of humanity. It shifts and changes based on the general sentiment of people living in the area. They can be dramatic changes or little changes. The protags can enter the Metaverse and track down the avatar of someone in the real world and cure them of whatever feelings or thoughts are bringing them down.

That is how I view the Upside Down/Dimension X. It is like a natural part of the world just under the surface that can be changed and shaped if the person shaping it is strong enough to do so.

That is a key component in the "Will has creation powers" theory in that he accidentally shaped the Upside Down into what it is today during a moment of panic, just like how El accidentally opened the mother gate in season 1 while she was panicking.

Everyone might be subconsciously aware that such a place exists (religious people may refer to it as hell). Everyone's probably subconsciously connected to that place as it is a natural part of their world? Who can say.

While I don't think Dimension X/The Upside Down is the source of power, I do of course think a lot will be revealed about it next season and it ties Will, El, and Henry's story together. But I don't know how far that "story" really goes or if the connection existed before 1979 when El opened the first tear.

Okee rambling over~