#[because so many fucking comic writers are racist as fuck]

[fantastic-mr-corvid]

i try not to think about the Authority movie. but i think one of the biggest indicators of how bad/good it will be, before we get anything substantial, is how they cast Shen.

[mysterycitrus]

I keep hearing people say to ignore Devin Grayson’s Nightwing but I also see people reference it. I feel like I’m getting mixed signals. Should I avoid it or read it? Are there specific issue I should avoid or read? is the avoiding advice only for people who are new to the comics? Or should I really just avoid the whole thing?

short answer — u do not have to read devin graysons nightwing run. i wouldn’t recommend it to new readers, and there isn’t anything significantly important that happens so like. it’s an easy pass. i do encourage people to at least read what she wrote about, though, because devin accidentally kickstarted the next twenty or so years of bad writing in nightwing books.

the long answer — devin grayson was a writer for nightwing volume 2 from like….. issue #70ish to #115ish. she did a lot of weird things during her run — her takes on dick’s relationships with bruce and slade and helena come to mind — but the most popular talking points wrt her writing are issue 93 and maaaaybe the renegade arc but that is literally the tip of shit mountain.

it’s funny u say that people are telling u not to read it cause based on my experience in fandom it is very, very clear that very few people have read any of the run at all, or even #93 and it’s preceding issues. which is fine, because it’s bad. but it’s important to understand why it’s bad, and how it’s affected dicks characterisation in both canon and fanon.

nightwing #93 is the issue people say to avoid because it features dick’s assault at the hands of a former ally that devin refused to acknowledge was rape until like… 2014. it’s bad. the build up to this point — haleys is set on fire, dicks apartment is destroyed killing everyone inside, dick watches this ally kill a man on his behalf while he is helpless to stop her — is rarely discussed in the context of the scene. it’s a lot, but because people haven’t read it they misunderstand the dynamics that devin had created.

the worst parts about nightwing in the present — his lack of conviction and competence, his sexualisation and dehumanisation, the fundamental lack of empathy for his retconned bg as a poc — all started with devin. literal ground zero. i cannot emphasise how her i incapability to understand that she’d written an assault arc with her self insert as the instigator has played into dick’s status as a character in the 2020s. many people accidentally engage with the same tired, racist tropes that devin herself contributed to, because people simply do not know (or care to know) what she’d written. think about much fanon content revolves around dick being an accessory to his own assault, or being literally unable to advocate for himself, or relying on jason fucking todd to kill his rapist. it’s like im rereading nightwing vol 2 all over again, and that’s not a good thing.

however what people also tend to forget about is the racism. devin grayson introduced dick having rromani heritage into canon, sure, but she did it because she thought it was sexy. we see this with her writing for roy’s navajo heritage too — a lack of research and care, though dick’s was clearly egregiously fetishistic. she retconned the character that assaulted dick into a latina character, and retconned her into being an aggressively sexual and violent person that was at significant odds with her og characterisation. that seems to be a trend with nightwing writers — wolfman did the exact same thing like fifteen years earlier with about the same degree of nuance and empathy.

ig my answer is that nightwing vol 2 is very much a pick and choose run, make ur own adventure type experience. bizarrely, u can get better nightwing characterisation in the titans 1999 run, or batman plus arsenal, which were both also written by devin (heartbreaking, the worst person u kno just made a good point). id be wary of people telling u to avoid it entirely, because i think ignoring its existence just exacerbates the problems devin created. just be discerning, ig. but also read nightwing vol 2 #118-#124 (just after devin leaves) because it is gd hilarious

[brucewaynehater101]

hii i just wanted to ask about the accuracy of the statement of "Talia abducted Jason during when he was arguably at his most vulnerable cuz catatonic and took advantage of his state (+no Bats knowing Jason came back to life) to indebt him to her and a cult + groom him to be a tool for whatever goal she had in mind" or if it's fanon and your opinions on this idea (+ actual canon if this statement is in fact fanon)

but just like how we play with the scale of good parent, bad parent Bruce we could also fuck around and do so much with this concept (fanon or not)

Hi! I'm not as familiar with this, so let's do the research together ^^ It's gonna be a long post!

I've heard many many many people curse out a few writers (I'm shitty at remembering names) for being a racist pieces of shit. I've also heard of Talia being thrown under the bus by a lot of writers. Here's a link to a wonderful Tumblr post that goes into Talia and how writers fucked over her character.

There's other posts, but this one quickly summaries what they did to Talia and briefly mentions the assassination of Ra's character as well.

Here's a post that goes further into Ra's character.

On that note, I have seen a few fics play around with two ideas that were (as far as I'm aware) retconned: Damian's conception being unconsensual and Talia having sexual relations with Jason.

As long as you keep in mind that these were retconned and come from racist, sexist, or both connotations, it's okay to explore the impact these actions would have on all characters involved (especially if we're utilizing the reasoning that Talia wasn't in her right mind during those actions).

That's a basic summary of why there's heavy debate around Talia and the al Ghuls as a whole.

Now! Let's get into Talia and Jason specifically!!!!

The comic run we want to look into is Red Hood - The Lost Days. I am unsure if there are any other comics that cover post-death Jason but pre-Red Hood. If anyone has any other canon material that covers or mentions this time period, feel free to comment, reblog, etc.

This is Talia's initial reaction to hearing about Jason:

She expresses concern, worry, and grief for Bruce

She then has spies give her updates on Bruce's situation. Everyone else states Bruce is "stepping up his game." She calls them fools (since Bruce is obviously just hurting)

Very quickly, we get into her discovery of Jason Todd:

So. Jason's catatonic and Talia was ordered not to inform Bruce. Regardless of if she wanted to, she would be betraying her father if she told Bruce

Then I'm just going to drop all of these panels:

This shows she somewhat cares about him. Whether that's for Jason or because of Bruce, that's irrelevant. She still cares and wants him to get better. She wants him to go home.

Talia only pushes Jason into the Lazarus Pits because she's run out of time

Now... she may be an unreliable narrator. She states she's doing this for Jason's sake, but it does seem like it's more for her own. Regardless, she doesn't have ill intentions.

Talia dips Jason in the Pits and then tosses him out

That line of hers seems suspicious, but I see it more as her trying to hide the fact she had Jason for so long. It's less "go be mad at Bruce" and more "gods, what is Bruce gonna think of me if Jason shows up on his doorstep?"" Selfish, but not in the way fanon characterizes it.

She had trackers on the bag, though. She just needed him away from Ra's

Ra's tells Talia she fucked up, Jason tries to blow up the batmobile, and then tries to tell Talia he didn't lose his nerve for revenge against Bruce

Talia realizes that reviving Jason with the Pit might have fucked Jason up

Jason asks Talia for her help with revenge against Bruce. Talia did not set that up. Jason was the one to suggest it without influence

Talia obviously does not want to be helping Jason right now. She still agrees, though

Let me just toss this here too:

So... She's not doing this completely because she cares about Jason or that it's the right thing, but she also sure as hell does not want Jason to be going down this revenge path

Despite all of this, there's this:

They then proceed to fuck.

Which is gross as hell, and how some people can say that she took advantage of him

I think them fucking got retconned, though....

So, it's slightly complicated?

In my personal opinion, the final answer is: "It is fanon!"

There may be some truth or canon behind it, but that most likely comes from more racist characterizations of her character. However, the canon material that explicitly covers this topic makes it clear:

"Talia was selfish with her help to Jason. She wants Bruce to love her. She thus ends up hiding Jason's existence out of fear of Bruce's reaction. She does not want Jason to be mad at Bruce or fight his dad."

This also matches the other characterization I've seen of this: "Talia uses the distraction technique to try to hold Jason back from murdering his own father. 'You can't murder Bruce without training, Jason.'"

To continue, whether Talia should've told Bruce or not is an entirely different matter. Sometimes, I've avoided telling people shit out of fear, which made the situations worse. It wasn't great of her to do that, but in no way should this villainze her. I also 100% love that this gives her a flaw. People make mistakes. She's trying. She may have gone about it poorly, but she did what she thought she could. It was selfish, but I don't blame her.

She could've also convinced Jason to give up his mission entirely right before they fucked. That's where it gets murky.

You are absolutely correct that we can use the fanon idea of the al Ghuls manipulating Jason. On the other hand, I haven't seen enough fics where Talia treats Jason like an unruly toddler instead.

"No, Jason. We can't murder Bruce. Obviously, you need training first." Her visible reaction is a motherly rolling eyes. Internally, she's just panicking ("fuck fuck fuck fuck. How do I curb bloodlust? How do I stop patricide? Procrastination!!!")

Anyways, thanks for bringing the question up! It allowed me to look into it and put my thoughts in order ^^

Feel free to read the rest of the run!

[themyscirah]

Complaining abt Suicide Squad yet again but the fact that they have Waller exposing the alien community to space racist attacks and talking abt how she got to her position through deceit and being a terrible person and stuff is just. Ahsfiwueh JUST SAY YOU DONT KNOW WALLER.

Anyways literally the 3rd mission of the Squad ever (and the first framed as smth Waller picked and not orders from above) was the Squad discrediting and stopping a rogue vigilante who was only arresting POC and funneling white people into white supremacy groups (of which he was the most prominent member) in SUICIDE SQUAD #4. and it's explicitly framed as this mission being personal for Waller that she's hiding from the government bc its illegal like. Guys. Please why are we having her incite (space bc comics) racist attacks now

Also the whole "Amanda got her position through deceit and being a terrible person" NO. she KEPT her position through being shitty and playing complicated political games!!! She wasn't always that way like there is a difference and it is IMPORTANT ppl PLEASEEEE. In Secret Origins #14 we learn Amanda's backstory and she used to be a normal, caring person! Like even after she entered into working in government and politics she wasn't automatically morally bankrupt like please people. She was originally given control of the Squad by Reagan (*sigh* 80s comics...) to distract and get rid of her because she was so successful at pushing progressive social policy in Congress. Acting like she's this static pillar of evil is such a waste of her character and so fucking uninteresting and disrespectful to her arc it drives me MAD.

Like I am NOT saying Waller is all sunshine and rainbows, she fucking SUCKS (said w love <3) but like there's a human being there. It's a progression, she has a character arc like please, DC, please!!! They've fucked up Waller so bad and made her so opaque and uninteresting she can't even be the protagonist of her own story for fucks sake!

Like I don't know how many times I have to scream it until DC hears me or remembers but WALLER IS THE MAIN CHARACTER OF SUICIDE SQUAD. ITS HER BOOK. yet right now she's a cutout to be used as the villain wherever the writers please. Even in her book we get none of her perspective really displayed, no exploration of her thoughts with any kind of understanding of the role she traditionally has played and was made to play in the story.

[bitterrobin]

Let's talk about Damian, the League of Assassins and the al Ghuls. A.K.A things to keep in mind when writing them.

You don't have to force yourself to comply with this, but there are some important facts you need to know and things you absolutely SHOULDNT do (be racist or orientalist).

Read on for a long post about Damian and the League and his family - giving context, some research and comic storylines, and characterization.

There are basically three different backstories for Damian.

Batman: Son of the Demon - technically, this baby is unnamed and not completely Damian. But the writer of that comic does still (sorta) resent that Morrison was able to write Damian in current comics while he wasn't. This baby was given up for adoption by Talia and we never see him again. Fans vastly prefer taking this backstory (me) because Damian is NOT a product of rape and Talia is written like herself.

Morrison's canon/the 2006-2011 era - the Damian we know and love. Kinda-sorta. So, in Morrison's whole run - Damian was raised in the League and trained as an assassin. One key point here: Talia DID NOT raise him. Morrison instead wrote that Talia only first met Damian when he was eight years old, and she was out of his life before then. Morrison also completely fucked up by writing Talia as a rapist who assaulted Bruce in Son of the Demon rather than the actual consensual sex they had. While it gave us the character, its not the complete version that many like. (and also its pretty racist)

Tomasi/Gleason's canon in Batman and Robin/Robin: Son of Batman - almost the same Damian as before, with one key difference: we actually get see what his training and life in the League entailed. Additionally, Talia in this version raised him from an infant, thus making his connection with her much stronger. A win/lose situation there. Talia would never raise her son under her father, but we do get a stronger mother/child bond than we ever had before. (Still fucked, but insanely better than Morrison).

From these three versions, only two utilize the League of Assassins in Damian's origin.

The League, then, is very important to his character. By extension, so should Ras right?

In Morrison's canon/the 2009 era - no, apparently. As per Resurrection of Ras al Ghul, he only sees Damian as a vessel for his soul. To stay eternally youthful and does not care for him as grandson in any way. This...is a lot. You could use it for angst. But it's also not in line with Ras' characterization. You could argue that this version of him and Damian have never interacted before but still.

Here's what you need to know about Ras al Ghul. He was and still is: a doctor. A man of science. He loves and wants to save the beauty of nature. Ras is an eco-terrorist. Not a generic assassin. He believes in the life of nature, animals, but he despises humanity for what they've done to the world. He has seen it all, and he canonically laments of loss of endangered species, of ruined habitats and long-gone animals he once cared for.

He also loves his family. A lot. The entire reason he becomes the Demon's Head is because his first wife, Sora, was killed by someone he treated, and then he was imprisoned and forced to co-habit with her corpse. Of course, over the centuries he's been alive, she's become only one reason for his existence, as we see how jaded he sees humanity and how little he trusts people. He latches onto Talia, his surviving daughter, because he loves her and he grieves her mother. He degrades Dusan, the White Ghost, because he cannot bring himself to love him. He was murdered by Nyssa because she felt betrayed and began to despise his love (and inaction). In current canon, Damian is his grandson and he loves him, despite everything.

Of course, it doesn't justify what he's done. But it's a crucial part of his character: the twisted love that cages. The love that binds and says it knows best for you - "I only want the best for you, I want to protect you, I want the world for you. Can't you see that? I can bring you something better." The fact that he's an ancient immortal only adds to the superiority he believes he's giving to his family.

We return to the League of Assassins. SO, the League was canonically created to further his ultimate goal: saving the planet. Again, eco-terrorism. The League exists to cull the human population. Ras believes in utopia, a world without any humans (even himself and his family). Ras is willing to die, eventually, like a really long time from now, if he gets to complete his goal. Thus, the League wholeheartedly believes in him, for the betterment of the world with their savior at the head. Exactly how the League treats their mission and Ras depends on the writer - but it's common to write them as a cult. Almost a religion.

We don't really get a lot about they operate. There are figures like Dr. Darrk and the White Ghost and all the stuff that comes up in Red Robin. We get some interesting ideas and characters in Robin: Son of Batman. But we don't get how the League works. There's no comic that does a step by step breakdown of their finances, operations, assassins, employees, what Ras actually does to lead and impart his vision to his followers.

We go the cult route, then. Here's something that I'm currently exploring and that I think others should too: The League is a global cult that believes in the holiness of death and the end of humanity in order to save nature/the planet. The League is far-reaching. It is eternal. It has existed for centuries, just as long as Ras al Ghul has.

Damian was part of a cult. Depending in your version of events, he was either taken from his adoptive parents or born into the League. Either way, he was indoctrinated. He believes in his grandfather's ideas. His training, canonically, began when he was very young. It was fast paced, trainer after teacher after teacher. He didn't grow attached to them, but he retained the skills. He is raised not just as an assassin. He is raised as an heir. A leader. An overachievement of talent and privileges. He embodies Ras' beliefs.

He is worshipped. A symbol of the cult. A prince. He is dehumanized. He is a figurehead, a piece of Ras that the common folk can touch and see. Damian believes in this superiority, misguidedly thinks they respect him and not the word of Ras. And there begins the struggle.

He grows up arrogant. Manipulated by his loving grandfather into something he really shouldn't be. But there is still Talia.

Either she only met him later in life when he was eight years old, or she was there from the beginning. In both cases, she would NOT stand for her son being treated this way.

Talia is not a completely non-violent character. She has killed before, and does not have the strict rules of Bruce. But she's not an assassin (at least , she didn't used to be). She can cry over a soul lost. She can shoot a gun but with a trembling heart. Talia was raised by her father with affection. She was sheltered, spoiled. She was educated and trained, yes, but she was not made into a weapon. She was taught martial arts for skills, protection, for Ras' paranoid benefit.

She was loved, but Ras has canonically hit her in moments in rage. He has canonically manipulated/threatened her to try and kill Bruce. I fully believe that she would want to protect Damian from as much abuse as possible even if they're both in the League.

You can interpret her split from her father as many things: her love for Bruce, her love for the world, her own love for her father and seeing in horror how twisted he'd become, her need for independence, to be her own woman without Bruce or Ras in her life, an abused child becoming an adult, etc.

Talia also canonically studied medicine (in Cairo). She believes in life. She would impart this onto her son. She wouldn't want him to grow up sheltered as she was, nor would she want him to become a weapon to be wielded. Talia would advocate for him to be taught arts and literature and respect for nature, and to try and give him some sense of normalcy. She was the one who let him keep Goliath. She would never kill Damian's pets (Morrison you have three days what were you thinking?!).

(EDIT: adding some more context to the Talia section of this post!)

After Talia healed Jason using the Pit and sent him to be trained, she left the League in entirety. For several comics, she was entirely independent and drifting - enjoying her life apart from Ras as her own woman.

For a brief moment in comics when Lex Luthor was the US President (yes that happened), he chose Talia to oversee LexCorp. Talia does not like Lex, but she agreed anyway in order to secretly change his company from the inside. While she put on a front to the public and Superman as another cruel businesswoman, in reality she was draining Lex's finances, shifting LexCorp into a more ethical direction, and digging up as much dirt as possible on Lex in order to take him down. She secretly gave Superman information on all of Lex's evil plans as she could, but didn't directly work with him. She wasn't LexCorp CEO for very long, but it was pretty much all she was doing until the events of Death and the Maidens. It can be assumed that while she was a CEO, Damian was being trained in the League in secret.

In Batman: Death and the Maidens, Talia was kidnapped and repeatedly tortured/resurrected in a Lazarus Pit by Nyssa Raatko (her half-sister) in order to brainwash her. She was killed, over and over and over again, then resurrected every single time afterwards in immense pain until she was filled with nothing but primal rage. Nyssa's goal was to use Talia as her own pawn against Ras in a revenge plot. The brainwashing made her a loyal follower of Nyssa, hate Bruce, and made her kill Ras without a second thought. Eventually, they succeeded in taking over the League - leading to the eventual storylines in Robin: One Year Later and Infinite Crisis where Nyssa is shown leading the League (before her unceremonious death). Ras eventually returns in the Batman: Resurrection of Ras al Ghul storyline that precedes Final Crisis/Bruce's death.

Some fans use this Pit event to explain Talia's butchered character in later appearances - making her abusive and cold to Damian and a full villain towards Bruce - as a consequence of this horrific brainwashing. It's definitely a far better explanation for her actions in Batman and Robin (2009) and Batman Incorporated than her sudden heel turn under Morrison. Unless you're completely re-writing her actions in the 2009-2011 era to be more in line with her original characterization, then this explanation is an easy add-in to explain her dynamic with Damian in your fic if you want.

You could take the complicated family dynamics of the al Ghuls and write some seriously heavy stuff on love and abuse and the cycles of trauma and violence. From Rúh to Ras down to Talia/Nyssa/Dusan down to Damian and Mara. It's one big circle.

Speaking of which, here's a list of all known al Ghuls for your convenience.

Rúh al Ghul - AKA Mother Soul. Ras' mother. She's fairly recent, but I think she's interesting enough to include. Unlike Ras' hard beliefs in science, Rúh is very spiritual and a practitioner of magic. Through her, it can be implied that every al Ghul has the possibility of learning magic. She believes in a figure called the Demon. Led the League of Lazarus on Lazarus Island, where she was basically imprisoned for centuries.

Ras al Ghul - real name unknown. The originator.

Sora - his first wife. Deceased. Killed by a raging prince who was healed by the Pit, as Ras did not know what it did back then.

Melisande - his second wife. Talia's mother. Half-Arab, half-Chinese. Deceased. Ras canonically met her at Woodstock (lol). She was murdered by Qayin, the antagonist of Son of the Demon. In some depictions (basically only Morrison) she was revealed to be alive and a fortune teller who hid her identity from Talia. (I think her being dead makes more sense for how Ras treats Talia, and her issues/love for her father).

Nyssa Raatko - I believe she's Ras' oldest child. Technically, she's been dead since Infinite Crisis and has not appeared in comics ever since. Canonically tortured and brainwashed Talia. Led the League for at least a couple months to a year. Half-Russian, part Arab and Chinese. Jewish ?, it's complicated. Canonically survived the Holocaust. Is immortal.

Dusan al Ghul - the first White Ghost. Albino. The forgotten and despised son. Still very loyal to Ras, does not call him father and instead calls him the Demon's Head. Mara's father. Is not immortal.

Talia al Ghul - the younger child. The beloved one. Damian's mother. Is not immortal.

Damian al Ghul-Wayne - you know already.

Mara al Ghul - Dusan's daughter. Damian's cousin. I think they're pretty much the same age. Raised in the League, led the Demon's Fist. Can be assumed to have been trained in the same subjects as Damian at the same time.

Compiling all of this, here's the things to NOT DO when writing the al Ghuls and the League:

Making them animal abusers, encouraging Damian to kill animals or showing him their deaths. The League stands for nature. They would not kill them unless its for food or mercy. It's insanely racist, even, to imply that a group of Arab-based people or Ras or Talia would gleefully brutally murder a puppy in order to teach Damian a "lesson."

Making Ras or Talia comically abusive. Ras would be hard on Damian and manipulate him. He's smart. He knows what he's doing all the time. He'd rather keep Damian's loyalty than turn him against him using physical violence. That doesn't mean he wouldn't ever threaten him, just..idk show some restraint when you write them interacting. On the other hand, Talia WOULD NEVER ABUSE HER SON. You could make an argument for Ras, but Talia would never ever hit her son unless she was forced to.

This is just common sense. DO NOT write the League or al Ghuls as racist, orientalist tropes. Research before you write? Use your brain. Please, I'm begging you. If you think of a concept you think might be problematic, look it up, try and find sources, ask around.

Make Ras weirdly obsessed with/in love with Tim. Seriously. What the fuck. This also weird and racist. I've seen horrendous tik-toks making shitty jokes over this. ITS NOT TRUE. STOP MAKING HIM A PEDO BC YOU THINK ITS FUNNY OR EVEN REMOTELY INTERESTING. Never once has Ras expressed a desire as making Tim "his bride" or some fucked shit like that. I'm going to beat you with hammers.

Having everyone take a dip in the Lazarus Pits/using them extensively to become immortal. As far as I know, only Rúh and Ras have used them frequently. Only they are the immortal ones, the ones arguably driven slowly mad by the unknown sciences of the pit. Talia is not immortal, she's not even that old, and she doesn't have the desire to be ageless. She has to be at least near Bruce's age, maybe younger than him depending on the timeline/your interpretation. Damian did not ever become exposed to the Pits until after he was killed in Batman Inc, and even then- he was NOT resurrected by it. (Actually I don't think he's ever been put into one.)

Having Talia hate Bruce. Like, No? Currently, they have more of a "we are Divorced but still care another but also we don't agree" dynamic. But they were once really in love, star-crossed even, they were married. But Ras and circumstances and even Damian pulled them apart. (I do think writing Damian as a child of divorce is both accurate and kind of funny).

Finally, demonizing all of the al Ghuls and making Bruce's half of the family Damian's saviors. THIS is racist. Full stop. Making his majority white family the "good ones" and "saving" him from his evil brown family is an insanely bad thing to write. We have to see it enough in comics, please don't write it into your fic. There can be redeeming things about the al Ghuls, about his life prior to meeting Bruce. Keep in mind, always, that Damian is part Arab/Chinese, that the al Ghuls are all a mix of Arab/Chinese ancestry and that they should/would be imparting their culture onto him. The League was where he was taught art, to appreciate animals. You could write Talia imparting certain tea preferences onto him, favorite cultural foods, practices, numerous languages. Ras is immensely proud of his own heritage, muddled by age it may be, there's no way he didn't let Damian express himself this way. I fully believe Damian is fluent in various Arabic languages and Chinese, and that his first language is not English.

My final message: think before you write. Consider the actual comics, in fact, I'll put one here for Ras.

Ras al Ghul: One Bad Day. Published 2023. Unfortunately written by Tom Taylor (sigh). Its still good though.

Ras kills some rich guys for facilitating the extinction of the wolf species you see. Of course, Bruce investigates.

Ras kills Bruce, keeps him dead for three months before resurrecting him in the Pit. Damian stays by Bruce's side. There's a lot more, but I implore you to read this comic for yourself to get the full experience.

Thus ends this post. Read this comic for yourself! Have fun writing them, just take these things into mind.

[glitter-stained]

Some of the posts I see here y'all gotta stop seeing fanfics as "bad dc takes". Like, it's perfectly fine to not like a trope that's popular in fanfic, but you gotta stop seeing it as character meta is what I'm saying. Fanfic writers are not canon writers, they do not owe you canon compliant, and you don't get to assume that what they're writing comes from a place of ignorance when there are so many reasons to include/not include something in your fic.

Like, allow me to use my own fics as example since they're the only one I have background info on the knowledge and motivations of the author:

-I wrote a fic with Lazarus Rage in it once. Do I know it's not canon? Absolutely. Do I think it's necessary for the understanding of Jason's character? Not at all, I think canon Jason is more interesting without the pit rage. I just wanted to write it once because it looked cathartic and you know what? It was. It was super cathartic. I wanted to write a story about the progression of a depressive episodes and using pit rage to talk about the feeling of loss of control with intense anger issues and sensation of loss and deep self-hatred afterwards, and i thought writing this is gonna feel good and it felt good, for me and for the readers.

-I'm also currently finishing another fic, in which I've simplified Tim's relationship with Jason's a lot (basically Tim is still haunted by Jason's ghost and Dick is still his favourite Robin but the victim blaming is much less intense and there's an intense, genuine admiration for Jason and happiness to get him back). Is it because I hate canon and its complexity? No, I love it, I love when character relationships are fucked up and they make a mess. I'd love to explore that in a different fic, even have the prompt already. But I'm writing a really intense fic about trauma, taboo and lack of communication around sexual abuse, and there are so many characters pov and things happening and I have to do this right because we're talking about things that happen to real people and not being accidentally insensitive or sending a shit message is more important to me than perfect canon compliance, and it's just not the place for it. This story isn't about tim, and it's not about victim-blaming. It's a fascinating can of worms to open, but I'm not gonna open it if I don't have the space to deal with it because I'm not gonna let worms roam freely all over my fanfic when I can choose not to include the worms in my story, because it might rely on base material but it's still a finite story that exists within its own scope because I'm not a comics writer, I'm a fanfic writer and my story doesn't exist as a pure extension of the comics and I don't owe you canon compliance. And how boring would that be if we could only write canon compliant stuff! No more coffee shop aus, no powers aus, fantasy aus, no more non canon ships between characters that hated eachother until the day they died (but had so much sexual tension)... Fanfic is not one single entity that takes place in a simplified version of the canon universe complete with consistent lukewarm tropes and watered down understanding of characters. Fanfics are rich and diverse and yeah canon compliant is great and i want more of it but the universe is so much wider and that's what makes it rich! Do some people write fanfic and also don't interact with or know canon? Sure, plenty of them. Does that fanfic reflect their opinion of canon? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. You don't know that. In the meantime, people are still creating extra content and enriching the fandom experience and if you don't like it, genuinely, the filter tags button is right there. That's not to say there are no racist or classist or sexist tropes in fanfics, but again that exists within the scope of that story. Bad writing exists in canon, and it exists in fanfics, and sometimes a story is canon compliant with a terrible message and sometimes a story is canon divergent with a terrible message and pushing away everyone who writes things that aren't canon compliant is not going to fix these issues in the dc fandom. Telling people to "not write the character at all if you're going to write them ooc" assumes your understanding of what is essential to the character is perfect and The Right Way to interact with a fandom and it's patronising and not only do you take the risk of looking like a moron the second you make a mistake, it is actual gatekeeping and the reason many people find getting into comics/fandom intimidating in the first place. (And it also shits on the potential of AUs like dark reflections, mafia etc. Of course Mafia Bruce who kills people is deeply ooc. These stories are still fun and it's not wrong to write them!)

"This story really should have addressed that thing that happens in canon" did it happen in the setting of the fic? No? Then shut up and let the fic tell its own story, it doesn't have to "address" anything it doesn't have space for. Again, don't like don't read is a thing. Fanfic enriches the fandom, it doesn't take away from it, but you know what can? Canon writing. I'm way more concerned with what dc is having batman represent nowadays than with fanfic I haven't read because I knew I wouldn't like it.

TLDR: It's understandable to be upset when people who don't interact with canon material at all try to assert their opinion on canon as the truth, especially if they call any attempt at disagreeing with the mischaracterization gatekeeping, but that doesn't make you immune to being a gatekeeper. Assuming you know a writer's knowledge and opinions on a character because of that one fic of them is naive and a misunderstanding of what fanfic is. Fanfic writers are still real people who give you cool stuff for free and you don't have to like it but you still have to be respectful about it, and all that negative energy you spend on rants about "bad character and" you've read in fanfics would be so much better spent on bad canon writing because these people do have the power to fuck your favourite character over and they do owe you canon compliance, and with the amount of effort some fanfic writers put into their fics compared to some of the writers who get payed to write canon, you guys could stand to be more respectful about fanfics.

[ultfreakme]

Just this week, I had to interact with extremely racist rhetoric about Asians with a de-ager that genuinely put me in a bad spot mentally, but i dud it becayse i thought that person coud be educated. Since 2021, I've had to watch as droves of people commented & replied & posted racist, xenophobic, biphobic arguments about JayJon simply because they didn't enjoy teen Jon. Arguments saying Jay, who in the story is an immigrant freedom fighter, is a terrorist. Arguments saying Jon right now is better off dead which mocked teen Jon fans for finding any aspect of Jon's bisexuality relatable.

I've been trying to be polite & mostly keeping my thoughts offline the wider Internet & public platforms for YEARS. I know of multiple POC (specifically Asian) Jon & Jay stans who have had to go inactive or delete accounts, because certain people have decided even EXPRESSING, merely saying you like Jon as he is now warrants a witch hunt & microaggressions which they assume is "harmless" because they're unwilling to examine any of their own biases. On top of that, rn many queer DC creatives are also constantly getting harassed and literal war criminals are being upheld as good writers, purely for fanon ship reasons.

Do you have any idea how fucking tiresome it is, to fight conservatives who want my meager rights gone online spewing homophobia because Superman came out, alongside comic fans who gladly take up similar arguments just to get their headcanons to be real? Do you have any idea the mental toll it takes, seeing a character who represents real life struggles of fighting against colonialism who LOOKS so much like thousands of queer POC kids, be called a terrorist & a villain because he is in love with a white character?? Not for any grand reason. SOLELY because he's paired with Jon.

Why should we be nice & polite when all it has gotten me in return is trying to explain to people that hey calling freedom fighters terrorists in a story about US hegemony and saying the bi rep is "not correct" is just fuelling bigotry?

But when teen Jon fans make stupid jokes & give slight pushback, we're the bad guys.

You are not the victim. There's literally thousands of you and like, 10 of us who consistently post. DC comics does not have a grand agenda against you, white boy character enjoyer.

The least we ask for is to leave us alone & just let us enjoy canon Jon in peace but we can't post a meta thread or fanart or fucking ANYTHING without people calling us fake fans & throwing in a little bigoted comment to top it all off. Block us. Again, there's like 10 accounts.

Go through the tumblr tag rn, 90% of it is kid Jon posts. We can't have that fucking 10% though can we? No,that'd be the....idfk the DC agenda of the totally scary homeless freedom fighter boy manipulating the pure, totally powerless white boy who can literally topple nations if he wanted and is a grown man. 👏👏👏👏 congrats, you've identified the Agenda & defeated The Evil by putting down POC characters, their struggles, & looking down upon bi repbecause it diesnt specifically fot your vision of bisexuality or your experience. Oh and also, a bunch of marginalized DC craeatives probably hate you. You know, with all the insults thrown their way for their efforts (because Conservative Propaganda man and War Criminal will get the queer experience far better than the trans activists & queer writers).

[evadewilson]

hi all, thought i would make a quick post introducing myself — i go by Lance online (he/him) and i’m a reader/writer/artist, an old hat at fandom, and a newly minted spideypool shipper. i like to post little bits and pieces that get stuck in my head, memes, ideas/prompts, and reblog lots of art.

eventually i may post my own art/writing but at this stage i’m just here to look! — this blog is run by an adult (i am in my mid 20’s) and for other adults.

it isn’t specifically nsfw so i put 18+ in my bio because i don’t want to expose any minors to nsfw content that i may post/reblog in the future. in saying that, i used to be a minor in fandom spaces and i understand that an 18+ warning can’t keep them out so whatever.

i’m incredibly receptive to interaction and i love when people add tags to my posts, suggest things in the comments, etc etc. once again… spideypool fanfic… save me…. i have a whole post where i am on my knees begging authors and pals to link their favourite spideypool fics. PLEASE YALL.

account related housekeeping below:

i’m incredibly cool/comfortable with pretty much any ship (particularly surrounding spidey and ‘pool, so if you’re a poolverine shipper, etc etc. hello and welcome. i have many peripheral ships and will likely engage with those (scott/logan, peter/johnny, peter/mj, wade/almost anyone…)

another thing— i don’t care what versions of peter and what deadpool get shipped together. when i’m talking about spider-man i’m usually thinking mcu spidey because civil war/hoco came out when i was a teenager, and although i grew up with tobey and andrew’s spidermen, i got very attached to tom’s spidey and he’s the one who stuck with me. i usually mix canon when i’m discussing spideypool (combining all of the spider men’s movie plots, spider-man and deadpool’s comics, deadpool’s movies, etc.) feel free to imagine whoever or whatever you want!

IN SAYING THAT — i keep having to remind folks that mcu!spider-man/tom holland’s spider-man is officially born in 2001 and therefore 23 as of the time i’m making this post. he’s not a minor so please stop jumping on my ass about this 🙏 in any case, he’s a fictional character, just let people live.

if you condemn or attack anybody for their fandom/fanfic/fiction preferences you are not welcome here.

personally i think a “do not interact” criteria is stupid because most of the people that i don’t want to interact with aren’t going to be sensible or respectful enough to conscientiously decide to not interact with me/my content. in saying that i do NOT fuck with racists, transphobes, terfs, antis, people who engage in ship wars, xenophobes, or zionists. i am a loud and proud activist who believes in land back, a free Palestine, free and safe fandom spaces, and every human being’s right to self determination.

if you’ve made it this far, congrats! ⭐️ here is your official welcome badge. pull up a seat and get comfy. lfg

[super-hero-confessions]

Y'know? After looking around and seeing all the insane white privilege shit people who "hate" Garth Ennis comics say about him or his comics and how attacked they feel when anyone tries to explain what satire is?

"A-Train is less redeemable than Homelander" "Hughie's mom is irredeemable but Homelander is redeemable" my fucking ass.

I can in 100% confidence say that they don't understand satire or storytelling in general and have no sense of basic reading or media comprehension. Without a doubt.

Most of them are just racist misogynistic ableist assholes who hide behind minorities and refuse to confront their internal bigotry. So they blame everyone else for it.

Ennis is a guy who wrote two whole comics where criticism against British transphobia was a whole ass feature and where boundaries and nuance and grief was such a important theme too. All while deep diving into how fucked up the U.S. military is and how even more fucked up weapons corporations are.

Oh and he also added a couple arcs criticizing homophobia and queerphobia and the people who hate on and make victims of queer people. In the same comics.

But "he" (said from the mouths of blatantly homophobic people that are constantly fetishizing and heteronormalizing gay people) is the one who's homophobic?

Interesting theory.

Exactly as convincing as the one claiming "Eric Kripke thinks women on top in a relationship are evil" despite that the literal first sex scene we get in the show (The Boys) has Becca Butcher on top. It's not like Billy's entire dynamic with her was highlighted with his being happily and consensually submissive to her and how perfectly fine and happy they were with this arrangement or how toxic masculinity is part of what was ruining it and hurting her. I'm sure...she was a villain right?? Queen Maeve also got on top and took control so she must have been a villain too!

This level of DUMB and self righteously full of shit and bad faith nonsense and lies makes me want to vomit.

I'm getting so tired of seeing so many stupid and arrogant people that very obviously come from a place of white privilege projecting their own insecurities and internalized prejudice onto artists and writers who are just trying to tell a story full stop. I'm so tired of it.

The Boys (comics and show) makes a lot of really phenomenal points but these dipshits can't actually be bothered to listen to any of them because they're too busy looking for things to be outraged at so they can virtue signal about it and how "superior" they or their ideas or whatever are to the author (who isn't even trying to broadcast what their views are they're trying to tell a story) when in reality they're just showing how fucking ignorant and privileged they are.

"gArTh EnNiS iS a EdGeLoRd"

No y'all are just some snobby and clueless outta touch privileged assholes that want the people around you in neat little bubbles that fit your perfect little world views so you don't have to think about confronting any that might be wrong.

If the existence of someone like "Big Bobbi" would make you uncomfortable because she's not a "uwu perfect little trans goddess girl" that fits the mold of what you think a trans woman should look like (as if all trans women should look act and think exactly alike cause that's not trans misogyny at all)?

The problem is you.

Get off the dead horse you forgot to feed and bury it already.

I'm so fucking tired of "brunch liberals/democrats". We need real fighters and people willing to listen and argue in good faith if we want actual change or progress. We need people willing to grow from being wrong instead of doubling down on it. It must be so nice to only have to focus on first world problems while you get to step on everyone else you pretend to champion for but I'm not that lucky and the same assholes would judge me and others for liking something unconventional that actually does pay attention and gives me a little comfort.

These people need to fuck off and leave us alone and stop using us as humans shields for their bullshit.

[raisedbythetv89]

So something I see bangels say about spuffy is that "it only happened because the fans/jane/marti wanted it to happen it" as a way to attempt to dismiss or diminish the relationship which is genuinely SO WEIRD to me because like let's ignore james and sarah's INSANE chemistry and combined acting talent that truly would have been a crime against art and television to not utilize and the insanely beautiful story of healing and female empowerment that results from their relationship and pretend it was JUST because the fans who are largely women and the two main women writers wanted it - THAT STILL ISN'T A BAD THING WHEN THE CREATOR IS AN ABUSIVE MISOGYNIST WHO HATES WOMEN

Your argument is that the opinions of so many women and the creative vision of the two main women in the writers room who were in the minority were powerful enough to FORCE this garbage human of a creator into giving us the storyline we as women want in our show that's supposed to be about feminism is somehow a bad thing...... girl WHAT

that's crazy! that is not the argument you think it is!!! you're saying you WANT the original plan joss - I wasn't allowed to be alone with 15 year old Michelle Trachtenberg and then made my self insert character date in her in the comics - whedon had in store for the series?!?!?!?!?! The man who tried to tell us Riley - cheats on you with vampire sex workers while you're mom is sick in the hospital and you've got a hellgod after your sister and then blames you for it - Finn, was the best man Buffy has ever encountered and her letting him get away was the biggest mistake of her life and if she wasn't so fucked up that's who she should have been with..... that's who you wish had full control of the plot and buffy's romantic life

Joss hating spike and hating spuffy and fighting against it tooth and nail at every turn was the biggest green flag for me I was like what's that? The racist, misogynistic, abusive, serial cheater hates the ship and character that I love? FANTASTIC

[sokumotanaka]

@alwaysbringaphoenixdown

I can tell you exactly why it's gotten worse. (I'm putting it in a separate post as not to clog up your great post)

Well that's a great one, Static and Teen titans had POC help writing their stories, with Static shock being the brainchild of a black man and a LEGEND in writing and storytelling Dwayne Mccduffie, who deeply understood the struggles with racism, gun control, drugs and so on. Same for teen titans.

That being said you should consume more media with Black/brown and LGBT people at the helm in the writing rooms. Kipo age of the wonderbeast, Moon-girl and devil dinosaur, The owl house, Steven universe, Craig of the creek, Invincible and even in video game form Metaphor Refantazio. Could we use more? Of course! However this is what happens when POC get to be in the writing rooms

Well I don't know about Star forces- the only thing I know about that is the magical creatures die I think? Like the all horribly melt.

RWBY on the other hand and Miraculous are mostly white led stories with only white writers. And both RWBY's and Miraculous writers are horribly racist. Miles and kerry wrote a dogshit subplot blaming the minorities and then when people questioned them, they shrugged it off as "tee hee we're white we don't know." not to mention RT running out their one black employee with constant racism and miles trying to appease people by putting BLM on his twitter till the heat died down. And Miraculous made a comic where the protagonist was fearful of black people for...no reason.

It's what happens when you have zero black/brown people in your workforce that don't have input on anything.

Ah yes the scene where the martian girl tells the half human half atlantian that he wouldn't get it, in terms of racism.

You're completely right here, I will argue that at least they attempted to talk about it instead of pretending it doesn't exist because it makes them uncomfy.

Yeah, sometimes that's all you need to further your point, especially in one of the most racist time periods, I can't explore a character without hearing someone say they're boring or ''woke'' or we see the "white Preston garvy / white Wyll Ravengard" mods.

As I mentioned earlier this is what happens when you have media where the characters are 99% white and male and you don't see many poc especially dark skinned ones. Or when you take learning about Martin Luther king Jr out of schools cause it's "Forcing it on children"

I'm frankly all for racist getting owned for being prejudice, it's the least they deserve.

It is cause that's too woke nowadays! But yeah this is why we need to get more black and brown people hired- sadly the best they get to do is write a book that goes straight to barns and noble. This is why we need to fund more POC writers to make original media, Games, TV shows, Animated or otherwise just diverse media in general- we went backwards because more racist worms got too bold, the pandemic fucked over alot of people's pea brains and made them too loud and too stupid.

I don't have the prefect fix, but support POC products, get people to watch Moongirl as much as they watch something like My adventures with superman and so on.

[mysterycitrus]

Quick question about how you decide what comics to care about? When it comes to characterization?

I know there’s comics that are generally considered ooc and no one really incorporates them into their characterizations. (Eg: I skimmed All Star Batman and Robin for fun. I now understand why people call him Crazy Steve, and I’m obviously not going to be taking this particular iteration of Batman and Robin into account when characterizing them.) But other than these really obvious instances, how do you deal with it? Like, I know fans of pre-N52 comics avoided a lot of stuff during that time? But now that we’re in Rebirth? I know that characterization in comic fandoms is always a bit thorny because of comic books as a medium, with all those different writers, timeline resets, etc… But you seem to have a really good handle on that, cause whenever I read any of your stuff and then read a comic, I’m usually like, yeah, same person here. Which I think is a feat! So, do you sort on vibes? Writers? Another metric? Case by case? TLDR: How do you deal when a character canonically says/does something that makes you go, “he would not fucking say that?”

Love your blog! And your writing!!!! Thank you!!!!!

ahh, crazy steve. what a guy (derogatory)

hmmmmmm for me personally if im writing a character i generally identify a “core” comic, regardless of retcons or conflicting characterisation, and then go off that. im reading a lot of bart allen atm so i focused on mark waid and todd dezago and completely ignored everything geoff johns has done with the character. for dick, scott snyder and judd winick are kinda the benchpoint for me, and then i kinda pick and choose (from wolfman, dixon, higgins, etc) what i think fits with that character. jason is easy cause he’s only had two comics worth anyone’s time. weirdly, some of roys best comics are written by devin grayson. so on and so forth.

wrt “he wouldn’t fucking say that” disease of which i am a chronic sufferer, I look back on dick (as an example) and his legacy characterisation, and whether or not it would make sense. not all legacy characterisation is good, mind!! but it’s generally easier to get a good benchmark if u go off a period when writers weren’t terminally on twitter. a lot of it is case by case, and i just map that in my brain

idk like SO much of it is just vibes and trying to create some internal consistency. like u said — there is so much conflicting characterisation and plotting and events that it can be very difficult so u just kinda have to trust ur own intuition. when i first posted persephone and got positive feedback for how i wrote dick I was kinda surprised — cause how i write him tends to clash with his popular depiction in both fandom and many modern comics. ig my real advice if ur writing (or reading) about these characters is to not fear complexity, and be conscious of exactly how racist most comic writers are.

[domnorian]

I’m actually really curious about your take on Kryptonians, and would love to know more that you haven’t told us already

Oh boy, I have so much Kryptonian lore in my head but nothing that I had time to put on paper.

What I can say however for now is that I'm trying hard to base my lore on what was explained in the old Superman comics but upgrading it a bit. For now, I've only written on the planet itself and I just started with the fauna and flora.

What was important to me was to write Krypton not as that horrible society like most writers tend to. But like a reflect on our own society. There is the "Old World" and the "New World", so of course colonialism and capitalism. I'm trying as much as possible to write a realistic socio-political background for everything but especially I don't want to write Krypton again like "It's science that doomed them bleh-" I fucking hate that because Lara and Jor-El were scientists?

So obviously the problem isn't science but the fact that Krypton's most influencial government was racist, sexist, and utterly despotic and dynastic. Zod actually tried a coup to save his planet but, though he had good intentions, he was a supremacist, racist and sexist asshole too. Jor-El, Lara and many others were the people from Krypton who really tried to change their world and save it from this tyranny through a revolution but didn't have enough time for it.

My idea was to show that most other aliens thought Kryptonians were bastards. But through Kara's point of view, we can actually that they were just like us: they loved, they danced, they fought for what they believed in. They had music and art and they were generous with those less fortunate. The problem was the governments, the church of Purity, traditions and beliefs that were distorted for a minority of people who wanted power and greed. And they are the ones that doomed the planet.

I think showing Krypton as "do you see this? that can end up like this for us too" was what the original writers wanted but not in a bad way. And especially with what's happening on our world at the moment, I think it's needed. Because yes, Krypton didn't have time to be saved but it doesn't mean we should stop fighting. It doesn't mean that we'll end up the same. And if we do, maybe we'll allow others to be saved as well. It's always been about hope and fighting for hope.

[tikiki05]

"Fun" (actually fucked up as fuck) fact that someone pointed out to me a while ago: Miles Morales is currently the only Black superhero in a romantic relationship with another Black character in mainstream comics.

How many Black love interests has Peter Parker/Spider-man had? Zero. Steve Rogers/Captain America? Zero. Wolverine? One - Storm from X-men. Tony Stark/Iron-Man? Zero. Marvel/DC has their white characters all mainly date other white people, but almost always has Black characters with non-black love interests.

T'Challa/Black Panther is one Black character who mainly dates Black women. I'm pretty sure the only reason why is because making the king of Wakanda not date Black women would be too suspect. His most well-known and longest relationship was with Storm who he was married to for second, but they're no longer together for some random reason and T'Challa has been single since, so it's literally only Miles/Spider-man and Tiana/Starling left…das it.

It's fucked that even ONE Black couple in a serious relationship is one to many for Ghostflower stans. They want the rare Black girl character being loved up on to be booted out to make way for yet another white one because if there's one thing media doesn't have enough of it's white girl and white women protagonists being centered or fawned over. Sure.

Obviously, interracial relationships are fine. But Marvel/DC definitely seems to have an aversion to portraying Black men and Black women together in love. There were racists who hated Storm and T'Challa together too by the way, I think it might be because a popular superhero Black couple could lead to more undeniably Black popular superhero children, and they do no want that.

So now another "fun" fact, the non-black writer for the comic Spider-man Reign 2, Kaare Andrews, is also the main artist for it. Spider-man Reign 2 is not Miles' main comicbook, his main comicbook is currently written by Cody Ziglar, who is doing a pretty brilliant job writing Miles. The plot for Spider-man Reign 2 is not worth summarizing in detail, it's a very horribly written au focusing on a dystopian world with an old Peter. Miles for some reason, was dragged into this mess as a guest star. In the latest issue, Kaare Andrews made the creative decision to strongly imply visually that Miles and Gwen were in a relationship - Gwen isn't mentioned by name - and had a child together, and then he proceeded to draw that child as *white* as possible. If you're wondering what kind of writer Kaare Andrews is, in the original Spider-man Reign comics that he created and wrote he had M.J. die of cancer by making Peter have radioactive sperm that M.J. was exposed to whenever they had sex. That last sentence is not made up or an exaggeration.

Hooooo boy this is a lot of loaded information, thanks for sending it in!

The conversation of diversity is always so frustrating with people who just don’t want to see it. Like as a white person, are you not bored only seeing white people in your media??? Don’t you want your media to reflect real life??? Which is really really diverse??? Rhetorical question, I know, because as I have said before, racists cannot think critically about the media consume.

It’s such a shame, because it’s not like its ghostflower shippers fault at the lack of diverse romance, all they do is like the ship that the ATSV writers fed to them. Except of course for the overtly racist ghostflower shippers, who throw a hissyfit at the idea of anyone but especially anyone POC being shipped with Miles. You just hate to see it :(

As for the last part, I do think I recall hearing about the radioactive sperm thing before at some point, what is bro on 😭 marvel should let me be a writer fr (i would be so bad at it i can barely write action and villains to save my life, but my characters are so cool and diverse and deep and itd be really really really funny i promise /j /lh /silly)

Sorry I didn’t have quite as much to say on this ask like I typically do, always love hearing thoughts from anons and sharing them with my followers though! Thanks bunches for sending this one in! I hope you have a nice little sweet treat today, whatever you’re most into👍

[capcavan]

kinda inspired by that response u did to someone else's post. but like. it just reminded me of how different Americans see nationality/ethnicity/race to other people, and how it can come through in the things they write.. like especially fanfiction. like how everyone who isn't a white American (and sometimes even those that are) can just become stereotypes. nicky is repeatedly a victim of this, ive read so many fics that just 'exaggerate' the fact that he's Mexican, even though it makes no sense! nicky has lived in America and Germany his whole life, his dad's a racist and his mum barely speaks to him, he'd be almost completely disconnected from Mexican culture realistically, and u can kinda see that in the books. but in fics, they make him like only eat stereotypical Mexican food, speak Spanish, listen to music in Spanish... like it's nuts. they do it to riko too except he becomes the Japanese mafia racial stereotype instead. Jean suddenly being obsessed with all things French, ranting about baguettes, even though canonically he has no good memories of France and seemingly wants nothing to do with the country or culture. it drives me crazy. like. even with neil 😭 he's canonically white and American, lived in America his whole life, but suddenly a British mother means he has a strong British accent and complains about how people make tea.

am I crazy?? its like almost comical levels of stereotyping, you'd think they'd be doing it for a bit, and that post just kinda reminded me of it.

the neil vs Jean British vs French thing is crazy too. I've never heard a British and French person argue over their countries under the age of like 60. but in so many fics, usually raven neil fics, its all they wanna talk about. wtf!!

everybody who could be classed as even slightly not "100% American" suddenly becomes a stereotype. and yknow the thing that rlly gets me? the accents are always exaggerated and always mentioned. nicky has a strong Mexican accent, neil has a strong British accent, and so on... but the "100% American" characters can be from varying parts of America with widely different accents (and cultures), but you'd never know it because the writer never mentions them even having an accent. it's just so blatant and shameless, and they don't even seem to realise they're doing it. they'll have other Americans in the comments being like "I love your British neil 🥰🥺" that is not neil. that is a stereotype.

even the books themselves to a lesser extent do this... like I'm pretty sure Jean having a French accent is mentioned. which isn't bad in and of itself, but a lot of the foxes are from different parts of America but again no accent differences ever mentioned. :/

all of this in every fucking fandom just for the record the og post we talked about was written by non American but it's just .. fandom think that is repeated by people as stupid fucking joke like yes it is very normal for immigrants to move to different country and still care and cultivate their traditions but then you look at how fandom represent it and like ... the rest of the world sees you and thinks you are fucking weird for handling it this way ✌️✌️✌️

[strangestcase]

I’m trying to start reading gothic literature, but I don’t really know where to start. What books in the genre would you recommend?

Cracks knuckles.

Start off with a selection of Edgar Allan Poe short stories. There's a reason he's considered the best Gothic writer. Most if not all of his fiction falls squarely into the gothic genre, even his non-horror production. The more you read the better, but The Fall of the House of Usher is one of the best representatives of the Gothic you can find. Also check out his poetry and scientific essays, if you can, the guy was a real Renaissance man. He also wrote one novel, The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym, which, along with Lovecraft's In the Mountains of Madness and Cambell's Who goes there? aka The Thing From Another World constitutes some sort of "trilogy" (since each story was based on the one prior).

Then you can move on to other short story selections. Short stories are easier to read and digest, I think, and plenty of fun. I recommend the following authors:

J. Sheridan Le Fanu- Irish writer that took a page from Irish folklore and legends. Madam Crowl's Ghost is a favorite of mine.

R. Louis Stevenson- usually a children's author, Stevenson liked to merge genres and used pretty interesting concepts for his horror production.

Guy de Maupassant- he was commisioned to write, so he often recycled entire concepts and plots, leaving us with many different versions of the same story (and a lot of heavy-handed morals. god bless).

Charles Dickens- predictably enough, he specialized in ghost stories

M. R. James- James' short horror stories have some of the most interesting monster concepts I've ever read, from a haunted dollhouse that recreates the events of a real-life haunting, to a possessed pattern print.

Gustavo Adolfo Bécquer- little man puts the "Dark Romanticism" in, well, Dark Romanticism. If you know Spanish, do yourself a favor and read his short stories untranslated.

Elizabeth Gaskell- wrote plenty of good horror stories, and often from a female perspective, which is always a treat.

Bram Stoker- his stuff is very hit or miss, but when he hits, he hits hard. Read The Judge's House for a very nasty ghost story and then toss Stoker into the garbage because everything else he wrote is either comically racist or just dumb.

And now as for specific must-read short stories:

The Yellow Wallpaper by Charlotte Perkins Gilman- maybe the true monster was medical misogyny all along! (Obvious content warning for graphic medical abuse, misogyny, and domestic abuse.)

What was it? by Fritz O'Brien- short story in the vein of "hey wouldnt it be fucked up if this happened?" Don't read if you have sleep paralysis.

The Open Door by Margaret Oliphant- a missing child, a mysterious door, and forces beyond human comprehension.

The Empty House by Algernon Blackwood- would you spend a full night in a haunted house? (Very paranoia inducing, it's such a treat.)

The Ghostly Rental by Henry James- in which the "ghosts" aren't actually ghosts, but something far, far weirder and cooler.

The Monkey's Paw by W. W. Jacobs- this tear-wrenching and suspenseful little tale will forever remind you to be careful what you wish for...

The gothic literature "classics", as in, full lenght novels and short novellas, can be a bit difficult to read due to length. My personal recommendations are:

Frankenstein or the Modern Prometheus by Mary Shelley- a foundational text of science fiction with a nestled narrative frame and themes of personal and social responsability, bodily autonomy, and freedom. Young alchemist Victor Frankenstein attempts to blur the line between life and death, and unwittlingly sets off his downfall in the process by creating a humanoid creature he can't control and won't respond to. CW child death, death by axphysiation, incest, description of unsanitary environments.

Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde by R. Louis Stevenson- it is considered the first modern psychological horror story, and, while it's a mere sixty pages long, each and every one of them is packed with a dark revelation about tight-laced Victorian society. When his lifelong friend writes up a suspicious will leaving everything to a stranger, a lawyer decides to look into it, leading him down a spiral of discoveries all related to a disturbing experiment. CW suicide, graphic descriptions of violence, drug abuse.

Carmilla by J. Sheridan le Fanu- very much a classic vampire tale, with an interesting sapphic spin, in which the predatory lesbian trope bleeds, pun intended, into a twisted love story. Laura is a young girl who considers herself prim and proper, until the day the charming Carmilla stops by the family manor claiming to be her soulmate, sparking off a romance marked by a series of strange events. CW implied sexual assault, gore.

The Portrait of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde- I consider it an early attempt at daylight horror, and while the plot is mostly romantic drama (canonically bisexual romantic drama!), the descriptions make everything else worthwhile. Beautiful model Dorian Gray's life is changed when he befriends a cunning aristocrat, which prompts him to wish to remain young forever while his portrait ages in his place... and his wish is granted. CW extreme antisemitism, suicide, graphic descriptions of gore and violence.

The Turn of the Screw by Henry James- a ghostly classic which is marked by its ambiguity and the opacity of its plot, all which make it all the more disturbing, if a little hard to follow at times. Bly Manor has appointed a new nanny to take care of a pair of twins, but soon enough, she finds out not all is well in the house, and a dark force might be preying on the children. CW implied incest, implied child abuse.

The Great God Pan by Arthur Machen- technically an example of very early cosmic horror, sitting at the intersection between Poe and Lovecraft, and clearly influenced by late Victorian scientific advancements. Some particularly gruesome deaths lead a group of men to slowly uncover the past of a one Helen Vaughan, and nature of a procedure performed on her mother before her conception. CW implied child abuse, suicide, sexual harrassment, human experimentation, extreme intersexism.

And those would be it!