rilestothemiles

[rilestothemiles]

Hello

my good pal

[rilestothemiles]

some of the (many) issues with modern dickbabs

nightwing (2016) #126

dickbabs is one of my favourite ships of all time and (unfortunately) probably my favourite ship for both dick and babs. this does not mean that I want them to be endgame btw, the opposite. but the modern version of them is terrible, even with watters fixing some of taylor's mistakes. his run has babs as a very bland character, purely there to support dick in a time where it seems everyone else is against him.

nightwing (2016) #127

it's not that watters, or dc as a whole, are incapable of writing women. even within the current nightwing run, regardless of what I think of the characters themselves, there's clearly women with their own aspirations and motivations.

nightwing (2016) #127

I'd honestly wager that even claire, the child of maggie sawyer's girlfriend, is written with more character than babs herself. so for once, it isn't that dc is incapable of writing women as fully realized people alongside men.

nightwing (2016) #126

of course, things are better in thompson's birds of prey run. babs still isn't using her wheelchair, and she isn't the same as her 90s-2000s self. but she is written as an actual character instead of a plot device. still, nowhere near the level she should be at. babs works well as a secondary character. that's her thing, watching over others, keeping track of all the heroes. her signature green oracle speech bubbles littered throughout the page providing both context and pushback to the main character of the issue. but with nightwing, we no longer see her provide that pushback. glimmers slip through, but theyre out of concern for dick himself, and it isnt the usual skeptical nature she displays. she's been regulated to a supportive love interest in his story. she's concerned, helpful, loving, and not much else.

nightwing (2016) #124

those pages on their own are fine. it's not like dickbabs has never been sweet or domestic, they both exhibit a lot of care for one another and always have, dating or not.

birds of prey (1999) #8

batgirl (2009) #8

the issue is that it's entirely one sided. the imbalance with dickbabs stems from babs being in this sort of limbo between oracle and batgirl. not one or the other. hell, there are still previews at the end of these nightwing issues of babs in world’s collide as batgirl.

if she’s not batgirl in the watters’ nightwing run, and she’s not fully oracle, what is she? it's hard to give a character any development if you have no idea who theyre supposed to be and arent allowed to explore that uncertainty.

theres only a limited amount of character development you can realistically fit any given story arc. when you have these issues writing a character, the better written ones ends up doing nothing but harming them, as they end up occupying the entirety of the development pie chart

you cannot have a character involved with another romantically in this kind of way if you don't know who they are. it just doesn't work. it strips them of their humanity and makes them nothing more than a plot device. im a person who believes some of their best moments are from when they arent dating. the pages I used before are from issues when they werent involved. you have to explore characters equally outside of each other, to create a balanced relationship. modern dickbabs doesn't do that.

the solution, of course, is obvious. fully embrace babs as oracle, which includes her paraplegia. and break them up. if you ever want to have a dickbabs that works again, they have to have the messiest break up imaginable. old dickbabs wasnt perfect, but if you want these supportive babs moments, you have to show her perspective. feel the full weight of her aspirations and motivations. something completely missing from these issues.

if you want dickbabs, you have to have babs. and to have babs, you have to have oracle.

[rilestothemiles]

the ever casual 5am cass

[rilestothemiles]

Cassandra and The Mark of Cain

aka my analysis of the significance of the biblical story of Cain in relation to Cassandra Cain. This is a good bit of text from a doc I've been working on for a while. Please feel free to correct me if you see anything that is inaccurate.

There are spoilers for Batgirl (2000) below the cut if you haven't read yet

PART 1: Introduction

I know most people who read this will already be familiar with Cass as a character, but I feel like it's still important to lay down the basics in case anyone is new to her or, like myself, didn't read her first appearance until much later.

Cassandra Cain's first appearance happens in Batman v1 #567 in an issue titled Mark of Cain: 1 and continued in Detective Comics #734 with Mark of Cain: 2

In Mark of Cain: 1, Cassandra has an encounter with David Cain and stops him from assassinating Jim Gordon. She then tries to communicate who it was that tried to shoot Gordon and because she isn't able to communicate verbally yet she draws the symbol instead

Barbara recognizes this as The Mark of Cain, a symbol that belongs to assassin David Cain.

Gordon begins to interrogate Cassandra, asking why Cain didn't shoot her and if she knows him. Cassandra then reveals that Cain is to her what Gordon is to Barbara—her father.

Part 2: The Mark of Cain

(during this section when I refer to Cain, I'm speaking about the biblical figure unless stated otherwise)

The Mark of Cain, commonly associated with The Curse of Cain, originates from the text of Genesis. It's important to note that The Curse and The Mark are not one in the same.

The Curse was cast on Cain, firstborn son of Adam and Eve, as punishment for the murder of his brother, Abel, and for lying about the murder to God. Cain became the first murderer to roam the Earth.

The Curse (not the mark!) can be split into two parts:

Cain had cursed the Earth with Abel's blood, so the Earth refused to yield produce for him.

The most important to Cassandra as a character, the second part of the curse marks Cain a fugitive and wanderer.

The Mark of Cain, however, was God's act of mercy upon Cain, a second chance to start a new life despite the sin he had committed. It was a promise from God to Cain to protect him from premature death, specifically as a way to prevent anyone from killing him so that no one could enact vengeance on him.

If someone harmed Cain, the damage would come back seven-fold.

The Mark is the blessing, and the Curse is the punishment. Having Cassandra's first appearance be a reference to the Mark is something that instantly offers massive insight on the type of person she was meant to be, or I guess doomed to be.

In other translations, the curse is said to have condemned Cain to a life of "groaning and shaking upon the earth" and is mostly taken as a visible physical ailment, serving the purpose of warning others not to kill the trembling man.

Jewish philosopher Philo believed this curse was allegorical and, instead of being a physical ailment, was an ailment that tormented the soul—more specifically one that ripped out the positive passions of the soul—that brought forth Cain's fear of being soulless.

In Genesis Rabbah it's also said that God gave Cain a dog—the supposed first pet in history—to accompany him and protect him during his travels as Cain feared he would be killed by other murderers or wild animals. The dog is described in the same text as displaying gratitude and obedience to the master who treats them well.

This dog ultimately becomes the official sign for Cain as the animal epitomizes loyalty and, again, gratitude and obedience. Some speculate that the "Mark" given to Cain wasn't a physical bodily marking or anything metaphorical, but was actually the dog God gave Cain.

The symbol Cassandra draws is a dog. This implies that, at least in the DC universe, the Mark of Cain is tied to the dog and isn't a physical or metaphorical bodily marking.

Part 3: Connections

THE FIRST KILL:

Cassandra Cain was raised from birth to become an assassin. During this upbringing, she was deprived of human language in exchange for a perfect understanding of body language. She understands communication through physical movement the same way others would understand it through speech.

Her first assignment is to kill an unnamed business man. Believing it to be a game, the actual kill comes easily. She reaches for his neck and rips out his throat, then looks into his eyes. Because of her ability to read bodies, she sees death as her victim saw it. Terror, then nothing.

She realizes she's crossed a line she didn't know was there and that her entire reason for existence, what her father has dedicated their lives to, is wrong.

Having stained the earth with the blood of this man, Cassandra brings her fathers curse upon herself.

THE WANDERER:

Cassandra bears the weight of her sin immediately. She runs away from her father and for 8 years, she wanders the streets completely alone.

While reading Batgirl (2000), her experience is always filled with an air of loneliness. She spent 8 years of her life drifting, wandering alone. When she became Batgirl she didn't need the training like the other current members did. Despite her age this meant, at least to Bruce, that though she was a child she didn't really need supervision.

She's capable and strong and as long as she isn't seen in the daylight, can be left to her own devices until she's needed. This is really what contributes to her life feeling so painfully lonely (at least to the reader), especially after Barbara has to step away from her life.

And when Cass dies, no one is there to help her. She bleeds out in the snow and all the people she cares about don't have a single clue.

The wandering seems to come around after Cassandra's perceivably killed someone and "cursed the earth with their blood". After her initial 8 years of wandering, we see this theme come up again at the end of Batgirl (2000) when Cass believes she's fatally wounded Shiva and intentionally left her to die. Her original solo run ends with this image.

"She thought she was a bat. but she came to find she wasn't that either. She was only a runaway girl...named Cain."

Cassandra, as someone who bears the Mark, has this fear we see throughout her story that she might be wrong, that maybe nature can't be changed and she'll always find herself spilling blood again. Doomed to be a wanderer for the rest of her life and forced to bear the curse of her father.

Second Chances:

The Mark of Cain was God giving Cain a second chance. Cassandra is a devout believer in this opportunity for change. Even when some might feel it's undeserved, she believes that everyone should get that second chance. That everyone is capable of change.

This all stems from her own insecurity regarding her perception of herself. If she's capable of change, especially with the cards she's been played in life, then everyone should be.

And if everyone isn't capable of change, maybe she never was either and all that she's worked towards has been for nothing, reiterating her fear of being unable to fight against her nature. Cassandra believes her nature is to kill and, in a way, she's right.

In issue #15 of Batgirl (2000) she's hit with a ray that doesn't make you kill but makes you DECIDE to kill. Your brain creates a scenario that justifies killing and, for most, it can take a few minutes to an hour.

For Cassandra, it was instant.

Though in this issue she hadn't actually taken a life, she committed the act in her mind within a scenario that felt real. No time was wasted in creating said scenario as though something within her was just waiting for the opportunity.

She has to believe that she can change. She has to believe that second chances work and that her nature can be fought against. She has to believe that someday there will be no scenario that ever drives her to kill again.

This is why I partially believe Cass not only bears the Curse of Cain, but is the physical embodiment of the Mark of Cain. We know that Cass has killed, we know she bears the curse, so why were her two introduction stories titled with the Mark?

She's her fathers daughter, his greatest work. She's his blood and his sweat both in the physical and the metaphorical sense as his project and his child.

Cassandra simultaneously bears the curse because she is his daughter, and is the blessing because she is his daughter.

She represents second chances at the same time she represents punishment.

THE SOUL:

The soul is a theme that haunts Cass no matter how far she wanders. She. unlike her bat family members, will never be able to fully understand what its like to be one of them. Her experiences have left her with a limited vocabulary, intense suicidal ideation, and no experience or understanding of social skills or cues as a result of the intense abuse and isolation she endured as a child.

She struggles to hold complex conversations not because she's incapable of complex thought, but because she doesn't have the words to express herself with and is often misunderstood as a result. Others see her as off-putting, weird, and worst of all, frightening.

Her formative years were wasted away and she was found far too late to have her habits—instincts—corrected. She was doomed from the beginning, born as someone beyond saving.

She communicates on a wavelength no one understands quite like herself. Her mother tongue is a language that belongs to the people who have hurt her. Cassandra Cain is a person, but she very rarely feels like one.

The Curse of Cain brings on a fear of soullessness. In issue #45 of Batgirl (2000) a drug called 'Soul' is rapidly spreading through Gotham that supposedly judges its host and punishes or rewards them accordingly. If you're a good person, Soul feels good. If you're bad, Soul will put you through hell.

Cassandra saves a woman who was nearly attacked by a man, both of who were high on Soul, and the woman is frightened of her. Her first instinct is to call her a monster, and the next is to accuse her of being cold and empty. Of having no life, no love, and no soul.

All seen through her eyes, through her body.

Cass doesn't have a dedicated nemesis and though she often runs into Batman's rogues, they hold very little significance to her. Despite being one of the best martial artists in the DC Universe, her story has never really been about the fight. Her story revolves around learning how to be a person, a real person. Not mimicry or imitation, but someone real.

She borrows Barbara's old Batgirl suit, revealing her eyes and mouth. She makes herself more palatable, less frightening. She sacrifices parts of herself to feel more human and quickly learns that it doesn't feel the way she hoped it would. She's experienced life in two different ways: a weapon and a girl.

Neither are kind to her, but at least one is familiar. She puts the old suit back on.

In the issue that follows, Cassandra accidentally takes Soul.

Her mind can't decide on how to judge her, but she first hallucinates others judging her. Bruce and her father side by side speaking of her weakness and wasted potential, Barbara stressing her fragility and wanting her to be more social, to let her be a teenage girl, while the teenage boys in her life uncomfortably sexualize her for the same thing.

Eventually, the judgement falls to herself. Her subconscious does seem to split in two and those two halves begin to argue over her verdict.

The Soul makes its judgement.

If Soul judges you based off your own sub conscious, then we see Cass as what she truly sees herself as. She wants to see herself as good, but was born for something else.

She thinks she's someone who can DO good, but will never BE good. She can pretend to be a person, but she'll never really be one of them.

THE DOG:

As previously mentioned, Cassandra bears the Curse and, if she really IS the physical embodiment of the Mark, the Mark makes her a representation of the dog that God gives Cain.

A dog who, again, epitomizes loyalty, gratitude, and obedience. All traits we see in Cassandra, traits she follows to a fault.

Cassandra being representative of the Dog adds some more uncomfortable insight to her story. She's been trained from birth and molded into something perfect, taught to speak through actions instead of words, treated essentially like an animal. She expects this treatment and feels uncomfortable when shes treated otherwise.

Meeting Barbara was her first step towards learning that she deserved something more but even then, she was dedicated to serving a purpose as a courier for Oracle. She was looking for someone to give her orders, something to belong to. Barbara made the mistake of eventually loving her like a person.

When Barbara offers her humanity (freedom, choice, care), she has no idea how to accept it because she's never really been human before. It's because of this that Cassandra finds greater comfort in being around Bruce, who deeply cares for her but—and especially in the earlier issues—treats her the way she's used to being treated. Like a dog.

Going back to the earlier reference to Genesis Rabbah, Cain's dog displays gratitude and obedience to the master who treats them well. The different ways Bruce and Barbara treat Cass tend to tear her in two.

Barbara wants to offer her humanity, to break away from what she's been raised for and become something new, someone free. Bruce offers her the comfort that David Cain once offered her. Work, pain, a sense of purpose. Cassandra finds in Bruce what she used to find in her father, and what is she without a purpose?

Bruce and Barbara engage in a kind of tug of war custody battle with her for a lot of her run. It's impossible to tell which one is 'treating her well' because someone like her is brand new to them. She had no one to raise for a significant portion of her life and was never socialized. She can't be trained like Bruce's other proteges because her weakness has never been her abilities, and she's technically Barbara's ward.

They had no idea what it means to treat her well, and neither does she. Cassandra only knows what she's been trained for and the line she refuses to cross. How do you raise a child that believes they're a dog awaiting punishment? Is she a 'bad dog'?

[rilestothemiles]

HELLOOOO

it is so beautiful that you and kena are my only asks. batman and robin in my tumblr? more likely than you think

[rilestothemiles]

woahhhhhh

my friend. we have grown stronger now.

[rilestothemiles]

List of Batfamily preferences/hobbies

I've been accumulating a list of the batfamily's stated or observed food, music, or hobby preferences (with some other misc info thrown in) with the help of various people across tumblr and twitter. Here is that list. Feel free to use it as a reference for fanfic/fanart/for fun/whatever else you want.

*I have not read everything ever, this is certainly missing information, and is biased towards what I have read and what my followers have read. This means I will be editing this as I get new information, and I'll add the dates of when I edit it at the top so people can stay up to date with the info.

*I tried to get sources for as much as I could, but some people didn't remember the specific issues/just gave me a panel with no source, and I'm not hunting all of that down. Most of the time if there's no source it's because I was only given a panel.

Edited 8/1

Bruce Wayne

Favorite soup is mulligatawny (Batman #701)

Likes medium/medium well-done steaks & likes grilling and uses it to relax (Batman #621)

Listens to sad jazz music

Loves dinosaurs (batman universe #3)

Likes the band The Clash (Robin 1993 #152)

Likes Chinese take out (Batman: Prodigal)

Likes nutritional smoothies that Alfred thinks are gross (Batman: Dark Patterns #7)

Hates cottage cheese (The Brave and the Bold #141)

Damian remarks that “Batman doesn’t eat pie” while Bruce refuses to eat pie at the Kent’s (Superman 2016 #20)

Likes burgers (Batman: The Brave and the Bold #10)

Dick Grayson

Alfred says crab stuffed mushrooms are Dick’s favorite food (Robin: Year One #3)

Doesn’t like cucumber sandwiches (Trinity 2008 #47 and then Bruce tells him to keep eating them and he starts liking them (Batman 2016 #54))

Doesn’t like cranberry muffins (Nightwing 1996)

Likes orange juice (Batman Prodigal)

Likes buckwheat pancakes (Nightwing 1995 #1)

Likes mint chocolate chip ice cream (Nightwing 1996 #70-something)

Dislikes coconut (Nightwing 1996)

Likes Dr. Pepper

Likes pineapple and andouille pizza (No Man’s Land)

Listens to OPM (Titans hunt #2)

Likes skydiving (Nightwing 1996 #140)

Has a high score in the arcade game “Apokalips Nah” (Nightwing Rebirth)

Barbara Gordon

Likes chamomile tea (Azrael 1995 #35)

Likes D&D (Batgirl 2016 #50)

Owns various plushies of vigilantes (Batman, Azrael, Nightwing) (Unsure if she sews them herself)

Likes Italian food (Birds of Prey 1999)

Jason Todd

Chili dogs are his favorite (Gotham Knights #43)

Bruce says his favorite color was green, his favorite ice cream was neapolitan, and that he liked cars (Detective comics #790)

Says pot roast is his favorite (Detective comics #569)

Likes scrambled eggs with mozzarella cheese and a side of chips (Robin Lives #1)

Likes punk/rock/alt metal, including Slipknot (Batman #408, 412, Nightwing annual 2021)

Is interested in historical fashion (Batman #413, Countdown Presents: The Search for Ray Palmer: Gotham by Gaslight #1)

Likes to read/often quotes classics & occasionally YA romance novels (RHATO)

Hates Alfred’s waffles (RHATO #8)

Tim Drake

Likes cucumber sandwiches (Trinity 2008 #47)

Favorite pizza toppings are canadian bacon with onion and artichoke hearts (Robin 1993 #116)

Tim says he hates shepherds pie (Robin 1993 #29) despite Jack Drake believing it to be his favorite (Robin 1993 #47)

Doesn’t like tuna sandwiches when Bruce makes them (unknown if he likes them otherwise)

Likes orange juice (Batman: prodigal)

Likes burgers, specifically orders a mushroom-swiss burger with fries (Detective Comics, #968, Robin #111)

Likes grape flavored Zesti (multiple, Psyba-rats #3)

Hates Alfred’s waffles (RHATO #8)

Likes the Foo Fighters (Impulse #56)

Listens to Enya, depeche mode, green day, oasis, and the jerky boys (Teen Titans v4 #14)

Likes D&D (Robin: Jokers Wild #3)

Plays tennis and skateboards 

Loves the kids cartoon Crocky (Robin 1993 42)

Goes fishing/sailing with his father

Hates sci-fi movies but loves old science fiction books

LIkes Buffy the Vampire Slayer and owns the box set

Likes cars (Robin 93 #1)

Dick says he hates cooking (Batman: prodigal)

Stephanie Brown

Favorite food is mashed potatoes (Robin 1993 #111)

She likes waffles and has a tradition of eating them with her mom (Batgirl 2009)

Used to do gymnastics (Showcase '95 #5) and play piano (Robin 1993 #111)

Played Varsity softball (Huntress/spoiler: blunt trauma)

Likes sewing (Robin 1993/ secret files/origins)

Steph owns a Nirvana shirt (Batgirl 2016 #50) also listens to Metallica and the Back-street Boys (Batgirl 2009)

Loves Sci-fi (Robin 1993 #57)

Is a Trekkie and goes to conventions (Robin 1993 #101)

Likes the peanuts/snoopy (Robin 1993 #104)

Has played D&D with Cass (Batgirl 2016 #50)

Dislikes gluten-free pizza (Robin #15)

Does yoga (Batman Incorporated: Leviathan Strikes)

Enjoys drawing/doodling (Batgirl 2009)

Cassandra Cain

Favorite ice cream flavor is chocolate (Batgirl 2000 #13)

loves herself “a big glass of milk” (Batgirl 2000 #62 & #66)

Likes cheeseburgers and fries (Batgirl 2000 #66)

Likes banana boba (DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration) and her favorite milk tea flavor is almond (Batman: Urban Legends #8)

Likes steamed buns (DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration) 

Likes Assam tea (Batgirl 2000 #61)

Likes rice krispies (Robin 1993 #138)

Likes various forms of dancing (Azrael Agent of the Bat #61) including moshing (Batgirl 2000 #63) and ballet (Batman and Robin Eternal #7, Detective Comics #950)

Also likes watching ballet and theater (Detective Comics 2016 #975)

Likes Shakespeare (Detective Comics 2016 #958/#981)

Likes soup (Batgirl 2024 #2)

When give the choice between chicken and pasta she takes both (Batgirl 2024 #8)

Likes pancakes (Nightwing 2016)

Seems to have a preference for apples over other fruit (throughout Batgirl 2000)

In general loves eating a lot! 

Tate Brombal, her current solo author, said one of her hobbies would be going on food tours all over Gotham and whatever city she happens to be in

Her and Steph have played DND together (Batgirl 2016 #50)

Very good at/enjoys fighting video games (BOP 2023)

Loves reality TV, specifically watches a show called “My Big Fat Obnoxious Top Model” she makes multiple references to shows as a way to help her speak (Batgirl 200 #65)

Damian Wayne

Is vegetarian

Likes hot chocolate and prefers it over tea (DC vs. Vampires)

Reads manga, specifically shojo (Robin #1)

Has read Naruto and Insomniacs (Batman and Robin 2023 #1)

Likes gluten-free pizza (Robin #15)

Likes Talia’s Ox Blood soup/has a preference for meals Talia cooks him (Teen Titans Special #1)

Plays violin (Batman & Robin #0)

Likes to draw

Likes pop-tarts and ovaltine (Adventures of Super Sons #4 & Superman: Jon Kent #4)

Doesn’t like his hair being long (Superman: Jon Kent #4)

Favorite arcade game is called “Cheese Viking” (Nightwing Rebirth)

Duke Thomas

Likes collectible card games, puzzles, and film (We are Robin)

Owns D&D books (Batman 2011 #30)

Enjoys writing, specifically poetry (We are Robin & Robin War)

Used to like watching MMA (detective comics) and paleontology as a child (Batman 2011 #30 & We are Robin)

likes heavy metal, his favorite band is called “Batman’s *****” (All-star Batman #3)

Likes and quotes Tarantino movies (We are Robin)

Luke Fox

Enjoys MMA/was an MMA fighter (Batwing #25)

Likes tinkering/engineering (Batwing #24)

Goes to basketball games with Kate and JPV (Detective Comics #958)

Kate Kane

Doesn’t like pomegranates (Batman: Urban Legends #8)

Likes Blondie, The 69-Eyes, and The Sisters of Mercy (Detective Comics #858, #859)

Goes to basketball games with Luke and JPV (Detective Comics #958)

Liked gymnastics as a kid and played soccer (Detective Comics #858)

Liked waffles and chocolate as a kid (Detective Comics #858)

Jean-Paul Valley

Likes westerns (Azrael: Agent of the Bat #56 and #75)

Goes to basketball games with Kate and Luke (Detective Comics #958)

Likes pulp novels (azrael annual #3)

Likes the Beatles

Alfred Pennyworth

Dislikes the band The Clash (Robin 1993 #152)

He likes penguins (Nightwing: Alfred returns)

Likes building model ships (Knightfall)

[rilestothemiles]

Being an evil doppelganger has to be so fucked up like imagine meeting a better version of yourself. Some chain of events going differently that led to "you" being a better person in a way you can never achieve. Personally I'd have no other option but to try and kill them

[rilestothemiles]

i love talking about the fistfight in outsiders #16 but the aftermath of it in #17 is equally delicious:

something about how dick and roy are standing noticeably further apart from the rest of the team (and yes, it's mostly because they just finished beating the shit out of each other) but it's the focus on dick's eyes glittering... how we know roy was bloodied and hurt too but winick focuses so extensively on dick and the blood on his face.

like... here's his wound, here's how he's bleeding, here's how he's managed to force roy to cut himself on all of dick's edges... and still... the injury is all dick's. he's managed to push away the one person who has irrevocably supported him, built him a life raft so he doesn't drown in his grief and he did it intentionally. he knew exactly what to say to get roy to throw the first punch.

and then we get this interaction with kory & roy on the rooftop... starting off with roy looking up at the sky with a very conscious decision to not show us the stars or the sky. i can't help but think this is a reference to roy & lian's conversation in secret files '03:

because throughout the fight in #16, dick and roy throw punches and words carelessly, while also cognizant of exactly what to say to make it hurt... but neither of them say donna's name. neither of them give voice to the spectre that haunts the entirety of this arc in outsiders. they can't... it's all just so unbearable.

so for winick to bring kory into this role— another person who loved donna just as much but who's also been called in solely to get a handle on dick & roy— and for her to say that the team is concerned about roy as he's brooding on a rooftop all feels so intentional. once upon a time, donna would've been the one to check up on roy but she's the reason why roy is so hurt... she's gone and nothing will make it okay... not even cutting himself on dick's edges. so here he stands, so obviously defensive, unable to look at kory, unable to handle her concern, all while the foreground is gritty and dark. no stars, no sky

and then you have this heartbreaking panel... roy literally and metaphorically avoiding kory's concern, the team's concern... both physically and emotionally grappling away from the dick of it all. sure, he tells her that dick will give his all— because having faith in dick grayson is such an innate part of being roy harper that there's really no other way to answer kory.

but that added jibe of "particularly to prove you all wrong" is such a wonderful insight into how fucked up he is right now. he has faith in dick's abilities but he doesn't have that same faith in dick's intentions with him. at this point, roy has tried everything— giving space, not giving space, setting up a whole team & HQ, providing dick with an outlet for his grief, trying to talk to dick, trying not to... and yet. dick brought up the worst moments of his life casually... like a weapon that was always in his arsenal:

and so roy walks away from it. but then we have the punchline— dick hidden in the shadows, eavesdropping on it all:

which is such a direct parallel to the panels in secret files that there's really no doubt in my mind that winick is asking us to think about all of this in conjunction:

the two instances are markedly different too. in secret files, dick's hidden in the shadows, yes, but we see him visibly crying whereas in #17, we see him shadowed entirely... only the white of his domino visible. because while dick blames himself for donna's death, what he did and said to roy in #17 is different in terms of his self-blame because he did the latter intentionally. he knew exactly what to say to get roy to hit him, and he hit back... almost like he wanted to hit first. he didn't walk away from any of it till kory and jade pulled them apart.

can you imagine how deep his self-loathing must be at this point? first, he gets ousted as leader by his own team... remember, this is a guy notoriously hyperaware of criticism from others because for dick, it's fulfilment of his own self-criticism and failures. and then he flung poison at roy with both his face and fists... a guy who has only been trying to help him, a guy who's grieving for donna just like him... his teammate, his childhood friend. and he was ready to burn it all down. nothing will be bearable again so what does it matter if he burns another bridge?

and the most heartbreaking part is... there's no resolution. dick doesn't apologize, roy doesn't ask him to.

the panels directly after pick up three weeks later where they're noticeably separated... working on separate tasks and sub-teams:

it's so deeply important to me for people to realize how high dick's self-loathing and self-hatred are at this point in canon... how much that level of vitriol directed towards himself (and others) hurts roy... a guy who has been through that kind of hatred directed inwards where it just cuts and cuts and cuts... and how dick chose to weaponize roy's lowest moment yet again (like new titans #101). and still, roy won't stop reaching out... he doesn't know how not to. donna would kill them both if she could see them now.

dickroy in this era are just "tell me what to do so you'll stop hurting me" over and over and over except it's moot because they both know the answer... and she's been dead for months.

[rilestothemiles]

Cassandra Cain x Laura Kinney?? Anyone???????????????

[rilestothemiles]

it’s called self love

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hello Riley. nice 2 see U lauracassing out

I just snorted ten pounds of batclaws cocaine

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I think I have officially reblogged every lauracass/batclaws post in existence. thanks everyone for ur contributions. see you guys in another month

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Legacy 

My babies! My hyperviolent babies!

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On a scale of Sarah Kinney to David Cain, how much do you love your eugenics experiment child?

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comicbooknetwork 4k celebration [DAY 6] → dream team

 she was perfect. not 'good' not 'better than expected'. perfect

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Dark Claw (but like better)

Quick lil finishes on my doodles from last night.