#yes i was a steven universe queer what of it

[f1zzlest1ckzz]

[deneveve-is-lost]

I'm the worst because if I find out complete strangers who I follow on social media think something I like is annoying I start thinking I should probably just kill myself and save myself the embarrassment, it's not ideal

[youngpettyqueen]

being in the MASH fandom on Tumblr has reminded me that sometimes fandom experiences aren't the worst thing on the planet

[bunnys-kisses]

https://www.tumblr.com/bunnys-kisses/768349619894861824/im-holding-your-hand-when-im-saying-this-as-a?source=share

people started asking crane (Max’s friend) on stream if Lestappen (Charles and max) is real. I think he was like “I shouldn’t be furthering/entertaining this” (I forgot what he said word for word). People took it as something to be excited about, that the drivers are aware of the ships and all, but idk. I think fandoms are getting too bold for my liking. I have no problem with shipping, but this parasocial behaviour is out of hand. I saw this when 1D was still a group (with Harry x Louis shippers harassing Louis to the point where he got so upset when the ship was referenced in the popular show Euphoria), I’ve seen it with Kpop in which idols have stopped hanging out publicly because fandoms get out of hand (a girl in the group Aespa had a boyfriend earlier this year and fans got very upset because they shipped her and another member and they broke up. A few years ago, 2 members of two different kpop groups (SNSD and EXO) dated and the girl got harassed at the airport even). And now this.

Fandoms get so parasocial so quickly, it’s insane. It’s not new behaviour, but it’s strange.

exactly, this isn't new behavior. but i feel like it's become more emboldened with how much more "online" both fans and companies/groups are.

more under the cut, because this is a long one....

i also think it ties into this notion that i've been seeing online about how fans have this feeling to be "right" both with rpf and fiction as well. that their theories, opinions and whatever else is "correct". i've seen this with like pieces of media like steven universe and even star wars. like fandom isn't fun anymore, it has become this weird one up over each other. i honestly don't know when this changed, my guess is around the pandemic when it seemed like people were more logged into the internet. but, i could be wildly off with that. (if you have an idea, i'd love to know). it just feels stupid in so many ways how fandoms are structured. even if you're not the "best" artist or writer, people can't have FUN in fandom - of course that doesn't mean it has to be absolved criticism. you can have fun and still call out hate within spaces. the issue with formula one (along with k-pop like you mentioned, anon), is that these aren't characters. this isn't arguing in the tags over is finnpoe or reylo is more valid or legitimate within the narrative. these are REAL people, with REAL friends, families and partners.

it's this weird push to have someone's theory - and while i have a soft spot for lestappen, it is at the end of the day nothing more than fan theory - be confirmed. also personally, if hattie (oscar's sister) or crane (max's friend) "outed" them, i would be horribly fucking offended on oscar/max's behalf. to have someone you TRUST just out you like that. it's sick. maybe it's because i worked in queer spaces from high school all the way through uni, and the number one rule no matter WHAT, is you never out someone. even if the question is harmless and the person asking has no ill intention. you never out another person, because it's not YOUR coming out. so the fact that fans are near begging these people to OUT their loved ones, is not only a level of delusion that i can't ever comprehend. but, also it could honestly, ruin that interpersonal relationship.

so like even if a driver is queer, whoever it may be. could be a driver from the 90s, could be a driver today, it could be a driver in five years, i don't want someone else in their life outing them. because that's THEIR story. and fans need to realize that. bothering crane or hattie or alexandra (i've seen that too) - isn't helping anyone and it makes you look unhinged and weirdly alienates not only the driver but their loved ones. YES, they knew it exists, it is EVERYWHERE. but shoving it in their faces doesn't help. and you're never going to get the confirmation because there is a high chance that their not even queer to begin with. and if they are, NOT OUR CONCERN

i don't have a problem writing or consuming rpf, it is not a crime nor do i think it should be stopped. like HAVE FUN. but you have to realize that it's not like debating star wars or marvel or whatever other piece of fictional media. formula one is REAL, they are not actors. they are athletes, and unless you want all rpf to be shut down some how. i suggest the likes of some of ya'll need to understand that there are different boundaries. and respect them.

i know they're all millionaires, but they still breathe and bleed as a friend of mine once said. it's fun to put them in little scenarios in fanworks, but just keep it out of their direct attention. there are unspoken boundaries, that some of ya'll need have said to you apparently.

asking oscar issac if he THINKS that finnpoe is real is VERY different than asking someone's sister if she thinks her REAL LIFE BROTHER is fucking his REAL LIFE TEAMMATE. - people's relationships have turned to ash over insistent rpf in their faces all the time.

my advice at the end of the day is: have fun, don't write or draw it because you want confirmation that it's a real relationship. write or draw it because you're having fun. fandom is about making friends and shipping in whatever context is about finding a slice of community on the vast internet, not cracking the code of if it is a real relationship. - bunny.

[shy-sapphic-ace]

List of queer books I read, loved & recommend!

(There isn't any particular order, I wrote these as I remembered them)

Master Of One - Jaida Jones & Dani Bennett (mlm, fantasy, very cool worldbuilding and magic system, funny, cool characters)

Legends & Lattes - Travis Baldree (wlw, fantasy, very soft & chill vibes)

The Priory of the Orange Tree - Samantha Shannon (wlw, high fantasy, cool worldbuilding, kinda reminds me of LOTR but with more dragons and feminism and lesbians)

Even Though I Knew The End - C.L. Polk (wlw, supernatural noir, cool 1930s detective story with angels & demons, I loved this one!)

The Love Interest - Cale Dietrich (mlm, science fiction, very cool concept)

The Darkest Part Of The Forest - Holly Black (side mlm, fantasy, cool fae lore)

The Weight Of The Stars - K. Ancrum (wlw, not quite science fiction but space stuff is involved, lovely and complex characters)

Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe - Benjamin Alire Sáenz (mlm, fiction, very nice in general, there is also a sequel)

The Gentleman's Guide to Vice and Virtue - Mackenzi Lee (mlm, historical and vaguely fantasy, nice story but I preferred the sequel honestly)

The Lady's Guide to Petticoats and Piracy - Mackenzi Lee (wlw, the sequel to the one before, more fantasy elements than the first, asexual main character!!)

Gallant - V.E. Schwab (no romance, but in the background one of the characters(?) uses they/them pronouns, very cool dark fantasy vibe)

Stranger Than Fanfiction - Chris Colfer (gay main character, trans main character, coming-of-age, nice book)

Simon vs. the Homo Sapiens Agenda (yes it's the Love, Simon book, mlm, fiction, pretty nice)

They Both Die At The End - Adam Silvera (mlm, sci-fi ish but mostly fiction, cool ideas, but the ending is sad! Very amazing book though, I haven't read the prequel yet)

The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo - Taylor Jenkins Reid (wlw, bi main character, historical fiction, cool story, just a neat book in general)

This Is How You Lose The Time War - Amal El-Mohtar & Max Gladstone (wlw, sci-fi, very cool time travel stuff!! and very beautiful, it felt like reading poetry most of the time)

One Last Stop - Casey McQuinston (wlw, background trans & pan & queer characters, sci-fi or fantasy idk, but time travel, I loooved this book, great)

The House In The Cerulean Sea - TJ Klune (mlm, fantasy, THIS BOOK oh my gosh you should read it!!, just cute and lovely and good)

Under The Whispering Door - TJ Klune (mlm, fantasy, this book is also sooo amazing, great character development and awesome relationships and stuff, it's been a while since I read it but it was so good)

In the Lives of Puppets - TJ Klune (mlm, ace main character!!, sci-fi, now THIS is found family, oughh feelings. argh, tj klune you’ve done it again, a human and his family of funky robots… I love them)

And They Lived... - Steven Salvatore (nblm, fiction, about gender identity and learning to love yourself, read it a while ago but it was very nice)

I Wish You All The Best - Mason Deaver (nblm, fiction, about finding your identity and people who care about you, very cute and sweet)

The Song Of Achilles - Madeleine Miller (mlm, historical, very good in general)

Carry On - Rainbow Rowell (mlm, background wlw in the third book, fantasy, it's a trilogy, basically Harry Potter if it was gay and also better)

Silver In The Wood - Emily Tesh (mlm, fantasy, very pretty, lots of fae stuff and lovely descriptions, it has a really good sequel too)

Pretty much anything by Alice Oseman (all cute and lovely and great, though I've only read Radio Silence so far I hear only good things, Solitaire is on my to-read list)

I Kissed Shara Wheeler - Casey McQuinston (wlw, fiction, it's been a while but I liked this book)

The Falling In Love Montage - Ciara Smyth (wlw, fiction, this book was so cute and funny and deeply emotional it made me Feel way too many things, I'd definitely recommend it)

What Big Teeth - Rose Szabo (a bit of queerness all around, fantasy, werewolves and monsters, this one was pretty cool!, lots of original ideas for the world/character building)

His Quiet Agent - Ada Maria Soto (mlm, asexual, fiction, about like spies but this book was so gentle and sweet I wanted to cry in the best way possible)

Some By Virtue Fall - Alexandra Rowland (wlw, historical fiction(?), theatre drama!! rival romance!! duels!!, a very good read in general)

Don’t Want You Like a Best Friend - Emma R. Alban (wlw, historical fiction, I’m not usually one for regency romances, but I really liked this!!, very cute and lots of drama, and there’s a sequel coming out soon!)

[blitzwhore]

I just saw Blitzø get called Stolas stockholm victim I can't with this fandom anymore😭

😂 As outrageously incorrect and stupid as that take is, I'm going to go on a tangent here. I hope you don't mind.

I think every fandom has annoying people with awfully terrible takes in it. People with zero media literacy. People who hatewatch. People who think they're entitled to the exact show they would've wanted, which has nothing to do with the actual, existing show.

This is especially true for queer media, and especially true for queer cartoons. (Hi, yes. I was active in the Adventure Time, Steven Universe, Voltron, and She-Ra fandoms when those shows were airing, respectively. I've seen some stuff). Some people just can't handle queer cartoons, period. If the queer characters/ships are soft and wholesome, they're infantilising and boring, and if they're complex and nuanced and actually have conflict, they're abusive and problematic. You'll hear the same recycled arguments over and over again. Like, the shit some people are saying about Blitz and Stolas after The Full Moon? Is literally almost word-for-word what they said about Catra and Adora post-season 3 of She-Ra (and even at the end of the show).

Here's the thing, though! Those people and their bad takes are not what I want to think about what I think about a fandom. Those aren't the people I want to call the fans. They don't deserve that title. Not when so many other people are out there dedicating their time to making gifs and art and meta posts, and writing fic, and commenting/reblogging to show support, and sliding into people's DMs to scream and squee together about a thing they love.

At the end of the day, "fandom" is just a lot of people each doing their own thing. Which people you engage with and allow to stay within your line of sight will determine your fandom experience. Fandom can be a huge, convoluted, online space full of people who are constantly arguing with one another and whose takes make you unfathomably angry... Or it can be you and your 5 friends and mutuals who scream gleefully at one another in 2-note posts. You can't control what others post online, but you can control your engagement with it.

How? Well, here's what I personally do to avoid getting upset by people's stupid opinions online:

Filter 'critical' and 'anti' tags (eg. #anti stolitz #anti vivziepop #Helluva Boss critical #HB critical #vivziepop critical). Many people actually do tag their critical posts because they know it's the respectful thing to do!

If I come across a post that has one or more of those tags, obviously, I don't click through to see it under any circumstances.

If I stumble across a stranger's untagged post with hate/criticism that upsets me: I stop reading and BLOCK. Immediately. I don't look back. I don't finish reading. I don't engage. I just block block block. I <3 the block button, seriously.

If I feel my mind reeling from a bad take I just came across: I take a step back, close my phone, breathe, remember life is beautiful sometimes. Go back and watch an episode I really like. Clean my living space a little. Vent about it to a friend (but only if I really need to, because if not, I'd rather not dwell on it).

If I'm starting to feel the need to reply to someone's bad take (directly or via my own post), I instead make the decision to channel that energy into making fandom posts out of love. (I don't do this just with fandom. If I see something transphobic online, I usually react by reblogging a bunch of trans art or trans positivity posts on my main, for example). I like to think of it as putting some positivity out into the world to compensate for the negativity I just saw. So, for example, if I see someone shitting on my blorbo, I may make a silly post just saying how much I love blorbo. Or I'll make (or draft) a post about how interesting I find some of blorbo's actions. Or reblog another person's positive/interesting post about blorbo.

And finally, I stay the hell away from Twitter. Or at least, if I go on Twitter, I try my best to avoid any tweet that has text in it instead of just art. Even the people who have good opinions spend too much time arguing with the people who have bad opinions on there. I don't want to see people's bad takes! No, not even while reading founded and perfectly articulated criticism of those bad takes! So I just limit my time on Twitter. And again, if someone is putting bad takes on my TL (even if it is to counter them), I unfollow and block as needed.

All this to say, yes, it really fucking sucks to read the opinions of people who don't understand and who hate the characters and ships and worlds you love. Gosh it's the worst. But you can curate your fandom experience. You can focus on the things you can control. You have the power to decide if your fandom experience is draining or fun!

And because I don't know how to finish this, here, have a Stolitz kiss to heal you:

We will keep winning and there's nothing the haters can do about it. 😌

[eddiezpaghetti]

It has come to my attention that SOME OF YOU who read my last Byler post remain UNCONVINCED. So I'm gonna tack onto it this:

I'm older than fucking God and air, and I've been out and proud since 2007. Yes, I know what homophobia is, and yes, I know what queerbaiting is. I know about Supernatural and Teen Wolf and Sherlock and blahdyblahdyblah. No new ground is being covered here. I thought I made that clear in the original post, but, clearly, I did not.

I am aware of queerbaiting and homophobia, and I'm still wholeheartedly certain in Byler being canon anyway.

Okay, so there are three types of relationship I want to discuss when it comes to queerbaiting. They're all, like, "queer relationships that could have happened, but didn't".

First off, queer-coding. This isn't really a thing so much anymore, but it still crops up every once in a while. I'd argue it probably happens most with male-male relationships in family shows these days. First example that comes to mind is Mr. Smiley and Mr. Frowny from Steven Universe. You can't make a relationship canon because some shitty overhead bastard overhead said no, so you get as close as you can without compromising the show. Can't make someone gay? Well, now their comedy routine is a blatant allegory for a romantic relationship. Boom-shaka-laka. This is something I don't see being a problem with regards to Stranger Things, but I want it to be there as contrast, a demonstration of one of many things queerbaiting is not. However, one could argue that, thus far, Will Byers is, canonically, queer-coded. It's pretty fucking heavily implied in the show, and the creators have confirmed it, and you're gonna be able to see it if you're not FUCKING BLIND, but word of god is not technically canon which means that interviews don't technically make something canon, blahdyblahdyblahdyblah, technicalities, Robin has been explicitly stated in the text to be queer while Will has, thus far, not, outside of good ol' Show-Don't-Tell. Of course, anyone with two brain cells to rub together can tell that that's going to change by the end of Season 5, but, hey, for what it's worth, I'm throwing this out there.

Alrighty, Thingamajingama Number Two: "Oops, I accidentally made the greatest love story known to man." AKA, a genuine, honest-to-goodness mistake. Unfortunately, we do live in a heteronormative society. Sometimes people who don't think about being gay much write a friendship that's incredibly compelling and don't even consider the possibility that it could have been read as romantic. Something something Top Gun something. This is, again, not queerbaiting. This is Steddie, this is Ronance, this is Elmax, this is your favorite flavor of non-canon ship this week, this is not Byler. The creators know DAMN well what they're doing. They've talked about it. We know this. Nothing new here.

Which brings us to the topic of discussion here. Actual queerbaiting. This usually starts out as an "accidental greatest love story", and then reacts to fan response. And when I say "reacts", I mean like a goddamn chemical reaction. Like bleach and ammonia, bitch. It's noxious and it's gonna kick your fucking ass without mercy. This is when a creator is like, "Hey, let's get our queer audience invested, but we're not actually going to give them what they want because our straight audience isn't here for that/we personally think it's gross/we don't give enough of a shit to want to research a goddamn thing to write a real gay character," blah blah blah whatever excuse they want to come up with this time.

And when you think "queerbaiting", I want you to think "bullying". Because that's what it is. It's lucrative bullying, like beating us up and taking our lunch money, but it's bullying all the same. And it's a real goddamn thing, even if people misuse the word a lot, often when they mean one of the two above, sometimes when they mean "bury your gays", which is another homophobic thing entirely that I'm not going to get into here. Queerbaiting is the thing we're focused on, and it's real, and it's bullying. And here's the reason I want you to think of it as bullying:

They

Think

It's

Funny.

They are actively making fun of us.

That's why Dean had the "Cas, get out of my ass," line in Supernatural. It's why the "Do you like boys?" line happened in Teen Wolf. It's why "Lie with me, Watson," happened in the RDJ Sherlock Holmes movies. Because "It's just a joke, mate." "It was just a prank, bro." "You didn't really think it would happen, did you?" "You should see your face."

So here's probably the biggest reason I don't think it's specifically queerbaiting in this specific instance of Will Byers and Mike Wheeler.

Stranger Things has never, not once, made a gay joke. Ever.

Every single time queerness comes up, it's dead serious.

Lonnie calls Will a fag, and the show is not at all reluctant to show what a goddamn horrible person he is. And when Hopper latches onto that, it's not as "Hahah, is he gay, though?" It's because he's trying to determine a potential motive for Will's disappearance, and even if someone had interpreted it as a joke, Joyce immediately has a line that functions as snapping her fingers in front of the audience's face and yelling "FOCUS" when she says "He's MISSING." Basically outright saying "This isn't funny!"

Troy calls him a fairy, along with targeting Lucas and Dustin for their skin color and disability respectively, and Mike gets damn near murderous. Troy is portrayed as a goddamn monster and the show portrays it as justice when El makes him piss his pants and later breaks his arm.

Steve calls Jonathan "queer" as a slur and gets the shit beat out of him for it.

Billy's father is revealed to be homophobic and abusive in the same breath.

Mike says "It's not my fault you don't like girls!" and we're shown how devastated Will is and Mike immediately follows him to beg for forgiveness.

There is a joke in Robin's coming-out scene, but it's not at Robin's expense. It's at Steve's. Specifically for being heteronormative.

Jonathan has multiple scenes where he's trying so hard to tell Will that he's always going to love him as he is, whether he's gay or not, without pressuring him to come out before he's ready.

Even when there's a little bit of ribbing at Robin's expense, it's always because she's an awkward nerd who's nervous around pretty girls, just the same as Lucas and Dustin are teased when they both first develop crushes on Max, and even then, even then, it always comes as a package deal where they make fun of Steve's girl problems at the same time.

Stranger Things is an emphatically pro-gay show. It may not be the core point of the show the way it is in, say, Our Flag Means Death, but there is nothing less than respect for its queer characters. Its queer characters are always taken completely seriously. No one is making fun of us. They never have. That's why I have serious doubts that this is queerbaiting. It would come completely out of left field for the bullying to start in Stranger Things' final season.

So it's not at all likely to be queerbaiting because queerness is taken completely seriously. The creators have talked about Will's queerness, at least, so it's not an accident. And queer-coding would be silly to expect from this show when it's already on its final season. Like, what is Netflix gonna do? Cancel it? Not to mention all the explicit queerness that's in there already. And no one's gonna "What about the children?" a show that's had sex scenes in it since the first season.

There's no fakeout here. It's gonna happen. Breathe.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

“you just can't handle toxic queer ships or morally grey queer characters, you want queer representation to be perfect and unrealistic.”

no, actually. one fictional ship that i really like is rose quartz/pink diamond x pearl from steven universe. yes, it's toxic but it's also interesting. and most importantly, it is not romanticized.

it definitely seems romanticized at first, because we were hearing the whole story from pearl's perspective, who was hopelessly devoted to rose. as the plot progresses, we see how unhealthy their relationship was and how much pearl's self-worth depended on what rose thought about her. how much she was willing to sacrifice for rose.

this is a toxic relationship that was written well, in my opinion. apart from pearl's unhealthy behaviour, rose being pearl's master also added a layer of toxicity and power imbalance. and none of this is romanticized. we aren't led to believe that these two characters should have gotten together.

and in time, pearl learns more about what kind of a person rose was and she begins to work on being independent and learning to love herself. by the end of the series, we know all too well that this ship was toxic, despite being complex and layered.

similarly, i talked about malachite or jasper x lapis in another post too. this was another toxic/abusive ship that was done quite well (minus a few hiccups) and was not romanticized or justified in any way.

rose quartz is also an example of a morally grey and problematic character whose actions were not justified by the narrative. she grew up in an abusive family, just like catra. she had her trauma and tragic backstory too. but her actions were still framed as being wrong and the writers don't try to woobify or coddle her.

(there were other examples of problematic characters in SU who got off scot-free like catra did, i'm not denying that at all btw, i'm mad about it too.)

so yeah. we don't hate representation of toxic ships or characters, we just dislike it when toxicity and unhealthy behaviour is promoted in a kids show.

[dreamwreaver]

When the pilot first dropped, I was a teen who shipped Chaggie only because it was canon and it was cute. But now that I'm older and watched the series, I realize how... simple and dare I say it, flavorless this ship is. They don't have that much in common, I can't really think of at least 3 things they have the same interest in. Their viewpoints are different and sometimes it can really broaden the perspectives of the couple for the better, but for Charlie and Vaggie, it only serves to clash in a way that doesn't amount to a lot in the long run, considering how Charlie often disregards Vaggie's caution and Vaggie shuts down most of Charlie's ideas. Not to mention that the whole "exorcist reveal" was poorly handled and did no service to their characters, only butchering these two further.

For me, I cannot see Vaggie providing any essential and substantial development to Charlie's growth in the series because of how bad the show makes her out to be only the love interest. Also, what is Vaggie's purpose to the hotel and for redemption as a whole? Simply being the manager and supporting Charlie doesn't really help much especially when she seems not to care all that much aside from her girlfriend. She cannot relate with all these sinners she was originally tasked to kill because she is most likely a heavenborn angel so what can she offer?

While I don't ship Chaggie anymore, I wish the show would take this ship seriously. They are doing their fans a disservice by failing to make their main pairing mean something more than scoring sapphic points.

My sweet nonny, you took the words right out of my mouth. Like, I feel that most charlastor shippers don't have an actual issue with chaggie being canon in and of itself, they have a problem with it being canon and yet it not meaning anything. Which isn't to say shows can't have main characters with stable queer relationships going on in the background. I think Kipo and the wonderbeasts did it? The new She-ra DEFINITELY did that, Steven Universe walked, and I'm guessing had it not been canceled after like 2 seasons Ok Ko let's be heroes would have developed lord box man and processor venemous' relationship in the background with major plot points being their on and off again dynamics (side note please watch it it's made by Rebecca sugar's spouse and it's so good!)

The problem with chaggie, is that they're BOTH main characters. Charlie is essentially the titular protagonist. Vaggie is one of the core six. Them being together in a relationship can be casual while not being missable. Let's look at a straight example of this being done right; Kim Possible. Nothing about Kim and Ron's dynamic as friends/heroes changes once they're in a relationship. Sure, fears and concerns that drive plots change, but the fundamental characters and dynamics do not. Moreover, we see the casual displays of affection between them that definitely indicate they're not just friends. (Then again KP did an awesome job of establishing that Kim and Ron both have this weird attachment to each other long before they got together. They had an official Kim/Ron night on Fridays).

Chaggie at least as far as season 1 is concerned, is not the focus. And yes, I know, "it's only 8 episodes!" Okay, but tell me if every episode counted why did we have one focused on introducing the Vees? Why did we have an entire episode focused on Huskerdust? These are not complaints in and of themselves but it makes you wonder when the big season 1 plot twist is that Vaggie's been an Angel the whole time.

You're also right about Vaggie not... really having a place there? She's just kind of there, and it's very glaringly noticeable. She's manager in name but Alastor handles all the facilities work and is by his own admission (believable or not) that he's there to watch people fail for his own entertainment, Charlie's the one involved with lesson planning and activity development and she certainly doesn't lack for cash to fund the place, Husk and Nifty both have positions within the hotel but are very obviously only there because of Alastor. Angel and Pen are guests. So what does Vaggie actually do besides wrangle sinners and tell Charlie no?

And part of why I'm so annoyed by this is that I think everything we do know about Vaggie's character could make her super compelling if it wasn't so heavily dependent on Charlie. A fallen angel and former exorcist who was cast out because she did the right thing rather than follow orders? Awesome! Injured in the process losing both her wings and eye? Badass! Believes that people can better themselves long after the lives they've lived? Cool! Is constantly fighting against her own self hatred and projects that out onto other people without meaning to? Feels she's utterly useless if she's not being of service to someone or something? Like this is barely scratching the surface but it's all there and it's all super interesting!

Except for the fact that tying it to Charlie negates all of it. Vaggie doesn't seem to have a character outside of Charlie, which is why they aren't really separated. Think about it, even when Vaggie's confronting Carmilla is on Charlie's orders. And while I'm sure vaggie always means well, her way of helping Charlie involves Charlie changing herself to be more acceptable to others. Alastor's way of helping Charlie involved him bringing her to a place where he knew her natural inclinations would actually be welcomed with open arms.

Alastor and Charlie just make too much narrative sense to not be together. They're foils, dark reflections, and they have so much chemistry it's honestly insane. People said that shippers got shafted when dad beat dad came out but all I saw was the greatest "your daughter calls me daddy too" joke of the last like 20 years. Alastor, who is canonically only in people's spaces to piss them off, who makes even his closest female friends wait for permission to touch him, both climbs over Charlie like ivy on a brick wall and lets her touch him on prompted without recoiling. Alastor always offers something useful to Charlie, even if he delivers it in an insult, and more importantly; not once has he ever laughed at her. He wants to guide her and watch her reach her full potential; malicious intent or not he's in it for the long haul. Again I say this not to bash on Chaggie but to emphasize how WEIRD it is that there's this dynamic isn't present in the canon ship.

I'm with you on your last point nonny, I can not actively ship chaggie and want better for it. I cannot tell you the rage that filled my body when I watched the last episode and saw that out of 8 episodes Chaggie got 1 30-second song and not only was it a REPRISE it was a reprise of the FATHER-DAUGHTER SONG!!! If that creative decision doesn't tell me everything I need to know about the ship's treatment going forward, I don't know what would.

[thestarlightforge]

Yes, the world is often still a terrifying nightmare for queer people.

But.

Spring 2024 served up a full season of Ava & Deborah in Hacks S3, the always delightful Abbot Elementary for its S3, and Ncuti Gatwa Fifteenth Doctor kissing Jonathan Groff on Doctor Who.

Summertime delivered Poolverine in Deadpool 3, a season of excellence with Interview with the Vampire S2, the killer finales of Umbrella Academy and Star Trek: Discovery, the continued successor to She Ra & Steven Universe in My Adventures with Superman S2, a taste of a future queerer Bridgerton in S3, the interracial interabled lesbian wedding of the year in The Dragon Prince S6, and House of the Dragon blowing up the internet for two months gay with its wonderful shenanigans—from the sept scene, to GNC-coded Rhaenyra kissing Mysaria, to Alicent going full Virginia Woolf on a MF & then proposing elopement in a 4 AM break-in.

Spooky season has the return of Jac Schaeffer to the WandaVision fam—Billy Maximoff, Teddy Altman (who he’s explicitly dating) & a bevy of PEAK lesbian activity in Agatha All Along, coming out (ha) within a month of Heartstopper S3, and the series finales of What We Do In The Shadows and Star Trek: Lower Decks.

Then, we’ll close out the year with Harlivy in Harley Quinn S5, Lady Gaga as Harley in a musical in Folie a Deux, and MF-live action WICKED PT. 1.

And this isn’t even it, y’all. This doesn’t include countless anime, cartoons, and queer shows that are gaining ground now that they’re streaming (Kevin Can F**k Himself, ILYSM).

No, it isn’t perfect. Yes, I want more and better representation. (Especially for sapphics, BIPOC queers, disabled queers, trans and GNC folks.)

But there are reasons for hope. We are moving in the right direction. 🏳️‍🌈❤️

[folatefangirl]

On The Darkest Corner of the Heart

A comment on how Booktwt, Booklr, and Booktok media reactivity has lost the plot

Or, I think y'all need to log off and touch some grass and think about your actions for a hot minute. Note: This rant is a tad long, because I'm fucking pissed.

Disclaimer 1: I don't personally know the author of this book or anyone screenshotted in the drama. We aren't friends. I have no reason to either defend nor criticize these people, except for the fact that I've been a primary reader of self-pub and indie books for almost a decade now, and yes, including romances that some people don't consider worthy of civility. I'm also a queer healthcare worker.

Disclaimer 2: I don't want anyone mentioned/screenshotted here to be spammed with hate. Please do NOT contact them, including any authors mentioned. I included the primary actors for the current drama primarily so people don't claim I'm talking out of my ass.

Book blurb:

Forbidden. That's what they are to each other. Maddie Stevens has never felt good enough. Not good enough to keep her parents’ love. Not good enough to be independent and stop being her brother’s problem. Not good enough to build the future she wants. When she injures her ankle before a ballet audition that could change her career forever, she’s convinced her life is over at twenty-one. What’s the point of having dreams when they can go down the drain at any moment? And because the universe has a cruel sense of humor, her physical therapist turns out to be a tank-shaped grouch who doesn’t even seem to like her that much. It’s totally unfair that, for six weeks, she’s forced to look at that handsome beard and listen to that deep voice that makes her head all dizzy. Top that with the fact that he’s ten years her senior, and falling for James Simmons is a recipe for disaster. But when their forced proximity makes the lines start blurring, the forbidden temptation becomes impossible to resist.

The Timeline:

Events preceding 2023: Lisina Coney, author of The Darkest Corner of the Heart, was born in 1999 in northern Spain. She worked as a translator prior to publishing books.

Initially I thought these books were only self-published, but in fact are published under the formerly indie publisher Page & Vine, founded by romance novelist Meredith Wild.

January 27th, 2023: The Brightest Light of Sunshine is published by nearly 24-year-old Lisina Coney. On Goodreads, it currently sits at 3.87 stars as of today, February 10th, 2024, with 27,727 ratings and 3,592 reviews. Note: For a small-time author, especially for a debut novel, these numbers are huge.

May 2023, Page & Vine announced that Big 5 publisher Simon & Schuster would distribute their books as an imprint beginning in summer 2023.

In mid-to-late 2023, Lisina's website and socials announced The Darkest Corner of the Heart, her second novel to be published with Page & Vine on February 20th, 2024. Note: This means the events below occurred BEFORE the book's publication.

February 5th, 2024: anaborbareads on Twitter/X posts the cover and other art of Darkest Corner with the text, "a forbidden romance between ballerina and physical therapist???? pls i need this book now 🥺✨💗🫶🏻"

February 6th, 2024: h0mmelette on Twitter/X responds to anaborareads with "the booktok genre of forbidden romance is hilarious. theyre straight… whats forbidden"

February 6th, 2024: a tumblr user reposts the twitter thread from above to tumblr. Other tumblr users reblog and add on, and it quickly goes viral.

February 7th, 2024: From what I can tell via reverse image searching, the first iteration of the fake ARC page that's going around appears to be from Twitter/X user queef1ng. About 4 hours later, the same fake ARC page was reposted on the tumblr post mentioned above. And from here, this story takes a turn from people wanting to feel like they're above a romance novel writer to potential legal territory.

Of the 122 ratings on Goodreads for Darkest Corner to date, 9 appear to be 1-star reviews and from what I can tell, most/all of them were only published since the events began on 06Feb2024. 71 are 5-stars and while some of those are ARC readers, many newer ones appear to be trying to counteract the review bombing from the fake ARC page.

As of today, February 10th, 2024, it looks like the book will still be published on February 20th as planned, but we'll see.

Wait, so how do you know the page is fake?

I can't believe people have been so gullible but fine, here's my analysis:

Lisina's real ARC readers have stated that it isn't from the book (not gonna document all of them in the screenshots but you can easily go to the book's GR page and see the ARC reviews there).

As other folks pointed out on the tumblr repost, no real ARC page does a weird review watermark like that. Speaking from my own experience in reviewing ARCs or beta-reading, I agree.

The font tipped me off because it looked like it had literally been written on a Fanfiction.Net page. Not that Verdana, font size 10, is unique to FFN, but it looks like fanfiction typed font. Which brings me to:

Literally how could you believe this author writes like this? You can read her website or preview her first book or just have the bare minimum common sense to understand what satire looks like. If you don't believe me (because I know framing a post like this will put a lot of people on the defensive), I've also included screenshots below. The prose and dialogue are COMPLETELY different from the alleged screenshot. The only thing that is similar is that both characters are ballerinas.

But wait, all of this doesn't explain why YOU, Cinnia, are so pissed about this?

You're completely right! It really doesn't. All of the above is mostly documentation so the naysayers can't say I'm just some silly fangirl of the author.

The initial premise of the drama is that you can't have "forbidden love" in an m/f relationship. First of all, William Shakespeare would like to have a word with you regarding Romeo and Juliet. Second of all, yes you fucking can. See also: Religious and cultural differences and human history for a starting point. I know it may be hard to touch grass and look at media that is not tumblr queer media-centric and understand that people who are NOT you might enjoy it very much. Note that I'm a queer person saying this and I do read or watch m/f media at times because I don't like limiting myself. Go watch Bajirao Mastani and enjoy one of the most beautiful movies about forbidden love ever produced.

The book itself falls into the medical romance subgenre. For those not familiar, these are romances (usually m/f) that often involve a healthcare worker and their patient. In the real world, where people touch grass, a healthcare worker like me having a relationship with their patient is such a huge ethical violation that it will get you fired. In Darkest Corner, James is Maddie's physical therapist because she's a ballerina with a sports injury and he is treating her. Ergo, it is forbidden for them to get together and the initial premise for mocking this book is on very shaky ground.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that the folks mocking it seem to very likely not be familiar with romance novels and their subgenres at all, or else they'd be well aware of the concept of straight romances marketed as a "forbidden romance" because they're fucking everywhere on any place that sells romance books. I have a personal collection of over 14,500 kindle ebooks. While not all of those are romances, a good chunk of them are, so I think I can count myself as a bit of a source here, you know?

The fake screenshot and social media drama has spread to at least Twitter, Tumblr, and BookTok, which all have huge reader hobbyists. For a small-time author barely past her debut novel's publication, allegations of this sort tied to your author name and book titles can last on the internet and in web searches for a long, long time, hurting an author's career. Maybe you're like "boohoo, who cares about their careers, I pirate all my fiction books anyway" and well, a post like this was probably never going to convince you of anything. I'm talking to the folks who might still have a sense of shame and self-reflection. Authors, even authors tied to a Big 5's imprint, earn peanuts. This sort of manufactured "scandal" is not ideal when the book is weeks away from being published. In fact, if the book has fewer sales than the first book in the series, Simon & Schuster may have legal grounds to go after the person who made the fake screenshot. A smarter person would have kept that to the groupchat or posted it as a clearly marked fanfic on AO3.

As a reader, this also sucks because when shit like this happens, the reviews of a book are permanently biased by both the bombers and the fans of the author, no matter how good or bad the book ends up being. Do I know if this book will be a 1-star or 5-star now, based on the reviews? Nope. Will I read it? No, because I don't read medical romances as it's a squick for me. But I may read her first book, which has mercifully escaped most of the social media nonsense.

This isn't the first time booktwt/booktok/booklr has engaged in a similar mob mentality towards books they don't like and I doubt it'll be the last. See Blood Heir by Amélie Wen Zhao and the allegations that turned out to be false then, too. However, I would like to ask y'all to please check your sources and not blindly accept what someone says on social media as truth. Get used to doing the research because manufactured misinformation is everywhere, and it's not gonna get better. (And for fuck's sake, not everyone is gonna like the same books and fandoms you like! It's not illegal to enjoy reading different things!)

Screenshots/Evidence (click for better resolution):

[halfagone]

Is it bad that I don’t necessarily agree with what seems to be a lot of people’s headcanon of Danny not being straight? Obviously people can headcanon whatever they want, but I myself strictly adhere to the rule that if there is no explicit evidence or implications from canon that prove otherwise, that I just assume a character is straight since that’s statistically what is most common?

You had me in the first part but you lost me in the second, unfortunately. You said it yourself, people can headcanon whatever they want. If you prefer him being straight, then that's really up to you! But that last line you just said is a little something called 'heteronormativity' and I'm not going to explain that here.

Moreover, I would definitely say that it can be very tricky to use 'explicit evidence' for reasoning, because it's a very slippery slope.

I'll use some other childrens' cartoons as examples to make my point clear here: In The Legends of Korra, Korra dates only guys for almost the entirety of the show. But in the very last episode, she and Asami become a couple. I know a lot of people say that they just threw that out there, but if you do some research you'll find out that the showrunners fought so hard to get just that scene in the show. If they could, they probably would have added more elements to their relationship and gave them more obvious on-screen chemistry. But they weren't allowed to.

In Voltron: Legendary Defenders, we find out in Season 7 out of 8 that before the Kerberos mission, Shiro had been engaged to a man named Adam. While the two ultimately broke off their engagement because Adam didn't agree with Shiro's decision to go on the mission despite his illness, we do see in the series finale that Shiro gets married to Curtis, who was a member of the Atlas crew.

Probably one of the more famous examples, The Owl House! As we know this is a Disney channel show, but the wonderful creator Dana Terrance made it beautifully, openly queer. And Disney didn't quite like that, so they cancelled the series. After which, the showrunners essentially decided for the final abbreviated season, "Fuck it!" And did whatever they wanted, as far as they were allowed to go.

Dave Filoni has said that he shipped Ahsoka Tano and Barriss Offee and we could have seen a romance from the pair. (And yes, this does make the betrayal that much worse.) I could use Steven Universe as an example, but I think I've made this section of my point clear here.

We only see one side of the show. We get to see the finished product, not all the hard work the showrunners and writers and artists and producers put into getting what queer representation they could. We probably wouldn't have seen any of this from Danny Phantom as a show, because we all know Butch Hartman is homophobic as fuck, but that doesn't mean there was nothing there that we as a fandom couldn't have taken to mean something else.

In the episode, "One of a Kind", there's a scene where Danny and Tucker are seen cuddling comfortably in each other's embrace. Of course friends can do this too. Hell, they can even be in something called a ✨ queerplatonic relationship ✨ but that is still queer. Even still that can easily be argued that Danny is just as attracted to guys as he is to girls. You never see Danny act like that around Paulina or Valerie while they were dating.

In "Fanning the Flames", Sam kisses Dash to break Danny out of his mind control. Except... This episode's summary explicitly states, "Danny and Sam find their platonic relationship turned forcibly romantic through the powers of Ember..." Over the show's seasons, we do get bits and pieces of evidence that Sam had a crush on Danny, but it's not until "Frightmare", episode 9 of the last season, that we get a scene where Danny realizes he might have a crush on Sam. I'm sure there are other bits and pieces of evidence, Jack had a ring for some reason in "Girls' Night Out". But "Frightmare" is where we get the first evidence of a possible relationship from them, which is a huge deal because this show is primarily from Danny's perspective.

But that is, quite literally, two seasons apart. So who is to say that- that first time Sam kissed Dash- Danny wasn't jealous of Dash but he was jealous of Sam. Here's what I'm talking about: in "Frightmare" we see in Danny's dream sequence that he wanted to be friends with the A-Listers and that's probably primarily because he likes the idea of being popular, yet in that episode and "Attack of the Killer Garage Sale" it's always Dash that Danny wants to impress and please. In the latter's episode's case almost if not equally as much as Danny did with Paulina, a girl he freely shows his crush on. And yet this is the same guy that makes Danny's school life hell and whom Danny antagonizes on many occasions. This could easily be a case of 'pulling someone's pigtails' and considering Dash's admiration of Phantom, that's not hard to believe on his side of things either.

In general, Danny's entire secret identity can just as easily be a symbolism for queer identity. All of Danny's Rogues know who Danny is, what he is, where he lives, and where he goes to school. And yet it's his parents he has to hide himself from. If you switched out the word 'ghost' for 'gay' or 'queer' in some of the Fentons' anti-ghost rhetoric, it would have been unabashed hate speech.

The Danny Phantom phandom has a lot of queer folks. We've done polls, I've seen the numbers. You said it yourself, anyone is free to headcanon what they want. But considering the community, I am not surprised that Danny being anything but straight is so commonly headcanoned. And maybe that's still not for you, but it's not as shocking as you might expect it to be.

Danny is only 14 years old at the start of the series. While we don't know the exact timeline of the series, and how long it's been when the shows ends, we can comfortably put Danny at 15 or even 16 years old at most. But there are plenty of people who don't realize they're gay or lesbian or bi or ace until they're much, much older. Yeah, we didn't get to see that in canon for obvious reasons, but who's to say we can't show that instead?

[simplepotatofarmer]

some real talk from your local anarchist and activist:

one, as long as you've changed and worked/are working to be a better person, no one cares about your past! actual activists will work with former neo-nazis and kkk members because we want people to change. if they want to be better, we want to give them a place to go! so many people get stuck in the alt-right because they don't think they have anywhere else to go! but our goal as leftists is to reduce the numbers of the alt-right and so we welcome people that want to change because it's the only way to make the world better. constantly berating people with their past, making them self flagellate all the time, does nothing - nothing - to make the world better. this doesn't mean that people who have been harmed have to forgive them or feel comfortable but y'all white activists have no room to act like that!

two, fucking online discourse isn't activism. neither is retweeting threads on twitter or posts on tumblr. heck, this post isn't activism! you can do activism online but i promise you it isn't harassing fans of a creator or content you've deemed problematic or slur discourse or policing what memes people post. like sure, we should try to be aware of making others uncomfortable but holy crap these things really do not matter! you are not a good person solely because you consume things that are 'morally right'. consuming media is fucking NOTHING. it means NOTHING. yes, it can matter when it funds actual bigots like JKR but i promise watching steven universe or the dsmp or whatever literally doesn't matter.

please, drop this moral purity stuff and attacking other people over their pasts or what character they like because y'all are just doing the work of the alt-right for them! you're getting into slur discourse and kink discourse and attacking other queer people like, yeah! that's what they want! they want words like 'groomer' to mean nothing so it's easier to throw at anyone they want. they want 'queer is a slur' shit because putting people into strict labels makes it easier to say 'these are the good ones and these are the bad ones' later on.

people are good. people can change.

your kindness matters more than your righteousness ever will.

[catholic-character-tournament]

Round 1 - Side B

Propaganda below ⬇️

Johnathan

Catholicism doesn’t really exist in the game but it also kind of does. Basically, Johnathan didn’t know that God existed until one day all the angels started coming down from heaven to have a war with the demons from hell. And then Johnathan made a pledge to go serve god and heaven and kill all humans living on earth because they were like “unfit” or “unclean” or something. So then Johnathan’s friend Walter goes to hang out with satan and then they become enemies :( But he’s basically catholic even if he doesn’t directly call himself that so i’m gonna say yes.

Johnathan literally fuses himself with god to become merkabach. He is unhinged. At the start of the game i thought he was cool because he didn’t want me to kill my best friend like WALTER did. And unlike WALTER, johnathan didn’t fuck up the boss fight with the minotaur. But then johnathan became really really bourgeoise or bougie idk whatever idk how to spell it. And then johnathan was like “FUCK POOR PEOPLE” and i was like no girl nooooo. But johnathan wanted to fuse himself with god and wipe all humans off the face of the earth because heaven thought they were impure. So he was trying to invoke the angels of destruction so badly and i was like johnathan you can’t do that son, and so i had to beat his ass. And then by extension i had to also beat god’s ass. And then i don’t really remember what happens but johnathan was essentially the most catholic guy in existence considering i don’t know anybody else who was chill enough with god to do steven universe fusion with him.

ok so like in smt theres alignments . chaos neutral and law. jonathan is the local lawboy and this means hes like the one who rather follow the rules already established and reject radical changes. but anyways hes also shown to be some sort of follower of god in this world and also of the like. local religion or whatever in mikado (where everyone is from) and hes very devoted to the cause and to keep things peaceful as they are now instead of trying to change shit up like walter (the chaosboy)

if he wants to commit genocide who am i to say no

has one fight with friend and decides to become an angel about it and nuke tokyo off the map

Fuses with literal biblical angels to become another angel that then wants to genocide anyone deemed ungodly/unclean by the biblical higher powers (which includes the entire population of Tokyo. And people who read manga).

Dude he is absolutely insane. He's my poor little meow meow. The party got high and he rolled around on the floor and meowed because he thought he was a cat. He is also so insanely gay. Like stupidly queer coded . that just makes the catholic guilt hit harder tbh

Gay boy who dies in every timeline

Paul

he's like if renfield from dracula was cool youth pastor.

He's also a priest, who essentially becomes a vampire due to an "angel" and tries to convert the entire town. He also runs an Alcoholics Anonymous group. I love him

Listen you've probably gotten this guy idk how many times but JUST IN CASE, I submitted him. He's a priest who fell in love and had a lesbian daughter. He becomes a vampire after his money-laundering fundie simp sent him to the Holy Land. He's so torn up over his lover having dementia and God allowing so much overwhelming death that he decides he's going to try to Cure Death Forever but oh boy is it a slippery slope and the man is surrounded by enablers.

so i binged watch the chosen (it's a drama series but it's the bible) and I needed to balance or else Id be insane so I watched midnight mass. It was good. Fuck this rat -- op

[alpaca-clouds]

LGBTQ* Are Not Inherently Sexual

Yes, I am very much aware I am mostly preaching to the choir here. But let's face it: The sexualisation of LGBTQ* identities is the worst. And we see it so often.

Generally when media depicts queer relationships or trans characters, it will often just automatically get a higher rating, than the equivalent depiction of straight relationships - or cis characters just existing.

There is the general idea coming around, that children should be protected from queerness - just as there is a general idea around that children ought to be protected from sexual themes. I disagree with both, even though I know that thanks to purity culture a lot of people might actually agree with the second idea. But that is gonna be a topic for another day.

When it comes to queerness we have the general idea that somehow two boys kissing or two girls holding hands is somehow inherently more sexual than a boy and a girl doing the same. Which is why for so long media struggled with being even allowed to depict something like that. I mean, just look into the struggle that Alex Hirsch had in 2012 to get Gravity Falls to include just the slightest bit of queer representation. And while Steven Universe started in 2013, it was really that show and Legend of Korra, that finally switched the thing around allowing us to get queer representation in a lot more kids media.

And sure. I will at this point admit to something: Queer culture was always a lot more sex positive, than straight culture. Especially the gay scene was and still is associated with a lot more casual sex than what you expect among straight peers. It should be noted in this regard that this is way more associated with gay men, than lesbain women, though the reasons for this are also connected to both misogyny, the way women are in danger when in public spaces, and of course just the way girls get raised. But yes, as some people at a local queer meet-up have pointed out: Gay cruising is a thing, lesbian cruising really isn't.

But boys kissing or holding sex on screen does not equal cruising, nor does it imply cruising - especially not to a kid watching the show. Like, let me stick to Gravity Falls: The fact that the two cops are gay will not get any kids going: "Hmm, I do wonder whether Gravity Falls, Oregon has some cruising spaces?!"

And this sexualisation goes further of course. Because a lot of people who are at least okay with straight sex ed in school will still make a big drama out of teachers trying to teach 12yos about safe sex for queer kids. Because they clearly do want their kids to get STDs, I assume. *eye roll*

But it is bullshit, right? Like, sex is sex. Educating kids about sex will not make them want it. Goes for straight sex, goes for queer sex. But the queer sex is not inherently more SEX than straight sexi s.

And... It is just bullshit queerphobia that goes with this. And it is sex negative. It is bloody horrible.

[thousandyearphantombunker]

(vent)

TOH fandom feels this need to 'stick it' to other kids shows and show them how TOH 'did it correctly' but they don't understand what shows like Amphibia's SVTFOE and SU etc etc were going for. And the whole 'the show was cancelled excuse' drives me freaking insane! I grew up watching Spectacular spider man, x men evolution and GLtas and those shows got screwed over so badly- but they used their time efficiently to establish stories and characters etc so no you can absolutely can give everyone in your cast good character and relationship development establish important plot points and elements and villains within a short amount of time.

SVTFOE went through awful seasonal rot yes but it knew how to balance highschool drama with adventures amazingly (also it's mix of random xd humor and dark comedy was done a lot better imo) Amphibia despite its flaws is a very well done fantasy story (and has some great diversity in it and more subtle allegorical stuff surrounding being a foreigner and oppression- it's not the most deep show ever but it absolutely has depth) and im gonna say it Steven Universe while not a masterpiece by any means (it does share most of TOH's flaws) is just objectively better than TOH. Especially when it comes to diversity! More diverse body types, more diverse personalities (not everyone is lovably dorky- steven is a crybaby soft boy who matures into a charismatic leader, amethyst is a rambunctious tough bruiser, pearl is an intellectual insecure knight whose lost her cause and garnet is a stoic cool leader etc) and has jewish and south east asian rep and while no one talks about it Amethyst is good disabled rep (she's got the alien equivalent of dwarfism, the alien equivalent of a developmental disability and she has an arc surrounding how she views these aspects of herself) it handles mental illness very well and yet it has this horrible reputation as being super racist and inappropriate to show to kids- which is an opinion people are allowed to have about this show especially if they are black or poc or whatever- I'm not gonna call their opinions BS there are some good points they make about the whole 'angry black woman' stereotype but as a Puerto Rican girl with autism wasn't allowed to make any mildly negative comments about TOH and how it handled neurodivergence or how I didn't even register Luz as afro latina without fans saying I was full of shit and just completely media illiterate- the human zoo in su was depicted as bad but made one or two off color jokes and therefore the show is irredeemably evil- okay then but now you can't fucking harass me over saying TOH had some instances where the disabled rep fell apart a bit (i wouldn't even say that the show is over all ableist or godawful it just had moments that could've been handled better) but um no I'm not allowed to say that apparently- if you get to call my complaints bullshit because your a 'queer poc' then i as another queer poc gets to complain about the show you think is untouchable (i won't cause that's really mean and you have legitimate points) the logic this fandom uses to justify being an asshole to others drives me up a wall. SVTFOE handled revisionist history and colonialism better. Steven Universe had actual fucking diversity. Amphibia had actual layers and complexity that gets totally ignored. But no all shows have to have super blunt representation, and pretty art styles with flashy animation and we must shame all people who have even the most tame criticisms of TOH. The owl house isn't a horrible show but it has its flaws and people who complain about them bring up valid points and since some of you seem so up in arms needing bringing up race guess what? White people also get to call out TOH's flaws. So many kids shows get disregarded as having no depth or being stupid and I hate that TOH fandom also gets in on that nonsense.

Your show is cool we get it now stop fucking putting other kids media down. I'm not gonna say you should be thanking Steven universe or adventure time or gravity falls for laying down the groundwork so TOH can exist you get to criticize these shows but maybe don't get shocked and call everyone who says something you dislike media illiterate and say our complaints are BS? Cause we can easily say the same to you-by your logic I can say all your complaints are full of shit and harass you over liking the collector because of how he treated king, by your logic I get to call you racist and homophobic etc - which we can agree is a bullshit thing to say right? And also it's just mean. You can complain that Steven Universe getting cancelled isn't an excuse for its shit writing in some episodes (I agree with that) just also be aware that Im holding toh to that same standard. You can complain that SVTFOE had an ending you hate because of how ooc and pointless so much of it was- agreed but I get to say the same shit about toh

TOH is not immune to the criticisms you lob at other shows and screaming media iliteracy at the top of your lungs doesn't shut down arguments as well as you think it does