#would love to know the thought process there. anyway i really liked it

[bronx-bomber87]

I know we’re all struggling with this endless hiatus and the lack of new content, so I thought it would be fun to resurrect the #chenfordchats that were circling around the fandom earlier this year. We previously did a question on favorite Tim Bradford quotes, so this time let’s do Lucy! What are your favorite 3-5 (or more if you want) Lucy Chen quotes from the entire series 😊

This does feel endless doesn't it? Not sure why this hiatus has felt longer than when we had the writers strike. That didn't have an end date for a long time. We have one for this one and it's felt worse. Probably because of all the BTS being withheld for now. We're all starving for content of any kind they'll give us. They've been restricted from sharing much of anything. So we're going little stir crazy. 47 days to go LOL We can do it.

This was not easy because these asks never are but always fun. Appreciate the challenge of them. Here we go. These aren't in any particular order BTW. Except by season cause I can't help but organize it. So maybe they are in a specific order ha But not one of ranking by any means. Also I'm not so good at staying within the numbers lmao I suck at it really. So I just did ones I love and I'm probably forgetting some I love but hopefully not.

If I am missing any feel free to do this as well or let me know your favs in the comments. Also these come with commentary cause I am me after all ahaha Was hard to find quotes I love that aren't just Chenford related but Lucy too if that makes sense. That's real hard cause they're so intertwined lol Anyways this is my crack at it please enjoy and don't hesitate to comment should you like to. Also feel free to participate as well more fun when people join in :)

1x01-What's not to love about her opening line as a character? So confident and ready to go. Look at her. Love everything about this line. Confidence rolling off her as she says. Hasn't been squashed yet by her future soulmate....

1x03-I LOVE this line for how it lands with Tim. But mainly we get to see the early sparks of confident Lucy putting Tim in his place. Standing up for herself. Because if she doesn't her career is going up in flames along with Tim's epic flameout. Telling him like it is and I love her for it.

1x07-Another amazing line that lands so well. This is an iconic scene but this line right here. This IMO is what keeps Tim from crossing that line. It's so spot on. She went out on a major limb and it pays off. Just love this line in particular.

2x01-Are we sensing a theme? LOL It was accidental. But I do love Lucy putting my boy in his place when warranted. Standing up for herself in the process. Straight up owns his ass in this argument with dem fighting words. Love her for it.

2x08-Always love watching her fierce loyalty come out despite rank. heh I love this line. Because once again calling someone out on their crap. Why we love our girl so much isn't it? So many reasons but this is definitely one of them.

2x10-Our poor girl so very frustrated with dating especially as a cop. This is an epic line that I don't think gets enough love. Cracks me up so much.

2x11-Love me some BAMF Lucy. It's one of my favs. The fierceness she shows not only saying this line. But making sure she makes eye contact with Caleb when she delivers it. I love her so much. We all know how true this statement ended up.

3x05-This seems like two quotes in one cause it kinda is. Already breaking the rules as is so here we are haha Fiercely protective Lucy reporting for duty with this quote. Loved it so much. She gonna beat your ass Stanton.

3x07-This line will never cease to crack me up. She owns his ass this entire episode really. It's one giant mic drop for her. This one is one of my all time favs of that ep and in general. I dare you to watch that scene let alone that ep and not be laughing.

4x16-Her reply to Tim's reaction makes me cackle. Her comedic timing is perfection. She is fed up with her hubby at this point and it makes me laugh so much. Goes from playful to over it immediately.

4x22-Lucy's reaction to Juicy is an all time fav. She was having fun messing with Tim over Dim till then. Her replies are so funny I love this quote for how much it makes me laugh every time. She is disturbed and not having fun anymore. LOL

5x12-Such an iconic way to drive her point home with this epic line. No more needed to be explained after this line. I adore this quote and the way she delivers it to Tim.

Lucy Chen is me when i'm prepping for anything with my anxiety. This cracked me up so very hard. Also couldn't find a gif of this glorious line. So just edited down a gif I did ha but I adore this line for how much I related with it LOL She is me when I am prepping.

That's all folks. Hope you enjoyed my rambles. Feel free to comment or do your own that would be fun to see others do it as well. Best part of fandom doing stuff like this. Seeing what everyone loves.

[forwomenbiwomen]

Sometimes I decide to see what the "other side" is talking about and I lurk on anti-terf blogs and gyns I have to say. I'm continually stunned by the fact that I thought it was normal as a TRA. The rabid "everyone can do the most outrageous shit as they want forever and ever and to engage with other opinions is literally catholic nazi conservatism 🤪🤪" is so... idk how to describe it, but reading their blogs completely overstimulates me 😭

It's always go go go go don't stop to think about it go go go FUCK TERFS here's a stunning misinterpretation that we can't even absorb deeply enough to actually question that'll be passed about like candy go go go trans rights go go trans women are women and cis bitches should die!!!!!1!1! but not really because we love women but only the ones that let their natural predators in uwu let's spam their tags with furry porn guys <3333

It's a lot!! And I forget that that's the other side of the spectrum on this issue because they're so online and fringe and... cringe is dead but they're really trying!!!!! I got used to dealing with normies but these people are insane about it and I'm genuinely taken aback. On here we have our issues, sure, but we're not so fast and groupthinky. We have our arguments but that's almost comically preferable to passing around a blocklist so you can keep yourselves in your bubble.

Like I'm always open to changing my mind that is an OATH that I take really fucking seriously. I read their blogs in good faith and engage with their thought processes because I NEED to know I'm making the right choices here. I'm surrounded by it on a daily basis and I come to the same basic conclusion that women deserve female spaces and a word to describe our femaleness and our humanity together and that word is woman. No postmodernist "gender is a social construct anyway so it doesn't matter what I use it for" erases the system of oppression that gender is and the fact that women are oppressed on the basis of sex and always have been. And they hate us. They hate us for expressing this quite simple and mild feminist take.

And somehow they've got this far with it lmao. Zero respect for the radical feminist women that came before them unless they call men transwomen and GNC women transmen. They would have fought the suffragists tooth and nail and put posters up of "wanted women".

[local-lamppost]

Act 3 Thoughts

Watched Wicked, came home, waited 20 minutes, binged Act 3. I do not recommend this lifestyle. Anyway...

I was so satisfied with where we ended up, but I would have also appreciated about 20 minutes to an hour more. It felt like some beats were skipped over, they wanted to get to specific endings and didn't have the time to wrap them up as neatly as I would've liked.

Maddie is a good example. She's a plant for Ambessa, okay but when and why did she become one? She couldn't have been one before Cait being named commander and when we next see her she's pushing for Cait to take power back from Ambessa. Did Ambessa just message her right after Cait and Vi started working together again as like a "the woman you love's actual love is back in the picture, you can either wallow or get revenge with me", but also made a smarmy remark about Cait 'at least being warm' or something. We didn't need to absolve Cait or villainize Maddie for their 'relationship' because they didn't even have a relationship-just a coping mechanism for Cait, similar to Vi's drinking. At best it was all unnecessary and at worst a waste of time.

Away from that, I want to focus on some good.

I am officially a JayVik shipper now. Them disappearing into a void together, encircled with each other, after Viktor spend however long within timelines/multiverses in hopes of finding a Jayce able to bring him back to his humanity? Come on, they needed to kiss. Especially after Jayce and Mel's low key break up. Honestly we were denied the three of them working together, because they would have been unstoppable.

Speaking of Mel, I love her. I love her design, her powers, her matricide, her taking command of Ambessa's armies, etc. I wish we could have seen more of her adapting to her new powers, finding peace with what she now is. There could have been a cool interaction with Viktor over how Arcane power has changed them both for better and worse.

I don't think Mel's story is done. With other characters, I can see them coming in for future story arcs as like, cameos or background details, but if the next LoL story is in Noxus I fully expect Mel to be a major player again.

Back to Jayce. I like Jayce, that could be my Arcane hot take, and I definitely want to write something more in depth on him. On all the characters really. For now, I'll just say that his determination to destroy everything he has built, because the only creation worth saving is his relationship with Viktor is just... glorious.

Viktor was amazing. I love Viktor in the lore, and they took his traits from the lore and amped them up to eleven. His body being destroyed and rebuilt, the process of which has chipped away his humanity and mutilated his dreams. He lives up to his own quote: "In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. We have to make it right."

Ekko is a character I never realize I miss. That sounds mean, it probably is, but I am never the less so happy to see him every time. It's like finding the missing piece you didn't even know was lost: that is Ekko to me. His mini adventure in the parallel universe was adorable. Us getting to see what could've been alongside learning what matters most to Ekko, him getting a taste of a near perfect life and still choosing to return to his own time. That's why Ekko is the true hero of this story.

In terms of Jinx, I'll just say I'm not a hundred percent sure she's dead. The airship leaving at the end followed by her scribbled sign off, plus not getting a dead body shot. It was definitely left open ended. Her looking to do something good, to not mess up, alongside her fear of not wanting to try again because she is just tired of failure, of being a Jinx, was too real in many ways. I will go in depth on her at a later date.

Caitlyn's arc is going to be argued about, no question. It needed more time (see the start of this long post) to make her point of her anger burning away, of it not being sustainable, hit harder. I would have made her realize what her anger was doing to Vi, have Jinx point out that they really are acting the same in their treatment of Vi, and use the whole Ambessa was literally stoking the fires of her hatred to help fit what time they had left. Honestly just have Cait learn Ambessa was the one behind the memorial attack, that would be a much better way to explain her anger diminishing enough to look beyond her own hurt to realize and take account of her mistakes.

Vi, as usual, needed more screen time. Not necessarily because her story would've been helped by it like in act two, but just because I wanted her to have more time to enjoy her life. I went into act three with the sole hope that Vi would have a nice day, only for her to loose everything again. The only people she has left are Cait and Ekko, and god help anyone who tries something against those too now. Her ending being the chance to finally rest, to lean on someone else, was beautiful. She is my favorite character and please let her have only good things in the future, she was traumatized in almost every scene this season please-

Nobody tell Vi that in a universe where she died young everyone else ended up living. It would destroy her.

Vi and Cait relationship was great. I wouldn't say it was rushed in act three, because it felt like it was where it should be for a final batch of episodes, if that makes sense. It felt like the set up was Cait being genuinely remorseful and Vi just wanting someone in her life who wanted her in return. It helps that they have great chemistry and that when given the chance they fit so neatly together. I think Jinx encouraging Vi to be with Cait is what sold it to me. Jinx realizing how much Vi has given/sacrificed and giving her blessing for her sister to be happy with someone she disapproves of; not to mention Cait pulling the guards from their posts to give Vi the chance to actually meet Jinx in order to have that conversation. All in all, it comes down to Vi's "I don't care" because that's really all there is too it for them. Vi is done being miserable and Cait makes her happy, vice versa. Cait is someone Vi can rely on, Vi is someone Cait can find strength in.

Spitfire round:

Sevika being made a councilor

Every single one of Mel, Cait, and Jayce's designs were 10/10s

Vi not being given an actual uniform, just armor and the gloves

Jinx cutting her hair further to match Vi

Ekko getting his crystal sword/bats

Heimerdinger dying after living a life where he could make his city something to be proud of

I was fully expecting Vander and Silco to kiss in that one shot

Everything with Benzo

Loris' name being said

Vi humming the song and the song being their mother's lullaby

Viktor being held within the Herald

Sky leaving so Viktor was free to bring Jayce to his space mind palace

Caitlyn's rifle never surviving

Fishman McBlue being the only one of Cait's soldiers to stick to his guns and stay loyal

Sevika and Shoola side eyeing each other

Vander and little Vi and Powder with the bunny

The bunny being a passenger on Jinx's balloon

Singed's messed up family getting a happy ending

[the-100-days-of-junkan]

Day 53

Alright so I’m gonna level with you. 

I REALLY wanted to do a V3 based pic for this day. However at the time I couldn’t for the life of me come up with an actual idea for it.

I think it’s because I was very tunnel visioned on specifically trying to do something with Junko Enoshima the 53rd, for very obvious reasons. This was back before I really had any opinions on Tsumugi, at that point the space she held in my brain was “Unique Antagonist that shows up semi-often in Junkan Fics.”

Which isn’t like, the best way one could view the character I can imagine. Though she had it better than Yasuke at least I didn’t even know who he was outside of occasionally appearing in these fics until like, somewhere in the first month of Project Production. I’ve never read DR0, someday though. someday. 

Anyway back to Tsumugi, mostly thanks to the local bandit, I’ve come to appreciate the character a lot more. I’m not like, an expert on the character. I'm still kind of feeling things out purely through osmosis, i’m not really an expert on nothing. However I like her a lot more than I used to, which means I have hindsight.

If I was making Day 53 right now I would probably just make some kind of art about Tsumugi being a Junkan Shipper. We’ve all given characters headcanon based on ourselves before, gender, sexuality, personal experiences, that weird clicking thing you can do with your thumb (or is that just me?), we love to impart aspects of ourselves onto these characters. 

And when the hell else am I going to headcanon such a specific fuckin’ aspect of myself such as “I ship Junkan” onto a character? It’s Tsumugi or nothing.

Honestly I’m not gonna guarantee but I might actually just make a pic based on what I’m currently thinking for a Tsumugi Themed Junkan art, and just, posted the same day as this one? If I do i’ll schedule it in advance to post like, an hour or two after this one. Enjoy the suspense of whether I actually did that or not! 

Oh, and I actually edited this image a bit. Both because I thought Junko's face just looked, bad in this. But also for reasons I'm not gonna bother getting into right now. However as a result we got this funny bit during the editing process

What if Junko was creepypasta lol . . . . . . . oh

oh god DAMMIT WAIT I LIKE THIS. Now I can't draw it until this Day gets released! DAMMIT!

[starrz-n-waffl3-fries]

OOO THIS IS SUCH A FUN QUESTION

I don’t really think I would be a stereotypical super villain- as my motivations would not be out of anything close to typical for a storybook villain-I would be more of a vigilante than anything- :0

I think the forsaken gang really rings true to how I would operate in that circumstance!!!

I am extremely Squeamish when it comes to blood and stuff so this isn’t possible in at least this timeline- but maybe in another, Some dimension away- I am like that- :0

My main targets would be capitalists, Rapists(top of the list no questions asked), abusers, Racists, and just overall intolerant pieces of shit who think putting other people down is a constructive way to fix their crippling self loathing and unfulfillment in their life- :3

My main motive? A mixture between my own trauma, and wanting people to actually realize how much you dehumanize yourself when you learn intolerance like that- humans literally have built in compassion and it’s some thing you are born with- the fact that some people just straight up don’t have that and make it other peoples problems is disgusting and vile-(although there are some people who lack empathy and are not bad people, so this is not about them<3) humans are soft and gentle and loving, monsters are cold dishonest and hurtful. And my thought process is if people learn about what I do and learn about why I do it- if I make it known-

If I show the world the carnage I’ve created, and why I’ve done it- wouldn’t it be at least a little comforting for people to straighten up out of fear rather than not at all-? I’d like that personally-I’m a pushover in real life and it’s hard for me to set boundaries- and it’s hard for me to do anything but fawn over those who hurt me-

But in this made-up universe, I can react how I want!!! >:3

As for outfits- I want something bright and colorful to match my actual personality- But also a mask that is simple and straight to the point and practical and recognizable- I really want a mask because this will give people a face to remember more clearly- you can get rid of a human face with enough trauma and blood- But if you have a widely known symbol for a face, your legacy will live true forever- :3

That’s why I’ve always liked masks-they hide your identity and make you stand out in a recognizable way without them knowing you personally!! it’s like you’re making yourself known without them actually knowing you! :3

anyway- sorry this is a morbid response- But yeah, that’s what I would be like if I was a villain/vigilante character😭✨

what do y'all think you would be like as supervillains??

personally i think i'd be this tall thin suit guy with a ✨spinny chair✨ and a cat in my lap that i pet menacingly as i slowly swivel around to tell the heroes I've been expecting them

i would have all sorts of cybernetic enhancements and big, flashy weaponry, and i would stay resting at the top of an enormous tower, preferring to crush my enemies from afar via my giant robots and such

for my motivation, i would not come close to thinking anything i do is even remotely justifiable. i would simply want to be remembered, and a vile dictator is always burned into the public consciousness for years to come

rb with your ideas

[slydiddledeedee]

they are so funny. to me.

[freakurodani]

The parallel between Sokka and Tenzin as their fathers' sons.

Sokka, left at 13 as his father and all the other men head off to war. Hakoda tells him "being a man is knowing where he's needed the most" and he needs to protect his sister, his home.

Tenzin is the second airbender. He is also half water tribe, he's a man. When Aang dies, he will be the last airbender. He understands what he needs to do.

Untold amount of pressure and responsibility have been thrust upon them by their fathers. Though, I believe it is not all intentional, but the unfortunate circumstance of being the fathers of sons who take responsibility incredibly seriously.

In Sokka's case, "protect your sister" is a vague instruction. It was meant to give him purpose, to help him feel okay about being left behind, He is too young for war, his father does not want to bring his child to slaughter. But Sokka will die with purpose. He will train the children of his tribe so they will be protected, he will face a fire nation ship until his last breath. He cannot go to war, but Hakoda did not see that war was all around them. In trying to give Sokka purpose, Hakoda put their world on his shoulders.

We do not get to see Aang be a father (in the TV shows), but we know he had hopes for the future. All his children were air nomads, and the air acolytes brought his culture back, but Tenzin could bend. This part of their culture is one ONLY they share. I do not think Aang would hide this, he is joyous that he gets to share his culture. When he feels respected, he always is, he taught the air acolytes after all. Off handedly, he could say, "I'm hopeful for a future where there are lots more air benders," and that, which feels mostly innocuous to him, is the nail in the coffin of Tenzin's fate. He is Avatar Aang's son, and the future of the air benders. It would not matter that Aang meant a future in generations. Tenzin sees the responsibility and it's his. He is his father's only air bending child, he knows what he needs to do.

Being a parent is not understanding the way the things you say harm your children. Even those things that feel innocuous in the moment can be life altering. Especially the more the child respects the parent. Purpose and Hope for those with a broader perspective, can be death sentences to a life that could have been when expressed to those who idolize the former.

[whatwillyousing]

vsynth has long since been trending towards the uncanny valley of singing but i feel like its been especially pronounced the past few years now that a higher proportion of banks sound nigh indistinguishable from human people. you can only really tell if youre already deeply familiar with each bank's respective engine

[winterdaphne2]

Thank you so much for answering this! There's no need to apologize for a delay at all :) I know I'm late in responding myself, so I'm going to tag you here as well @asherlockstudy in the hopes you'll see this.

You've made some great points, so thank you for giving me the chance to think about all this again. I still think I have more thoughts and unanswered questions, though, so I tried to respond...and then wrote the below, which is basically an excessively long meta of my own thoughts on when John may or may not have realized. I'd be happy to hear what you think if you'd like to reply again, but there's no pressure :)

First, thank you for linking to your meta about "John's choices." It's been a while since I've read it, but I read through it again and I'm really glad you explained the scene between Sherlock and John in the entryway to 221B at the end of TEH. I'm intrigued by your point about how John tries to get Sherlock to open up in this scene. Relatedly, I agree with your comments on this meta about the train car scene. In that scene, Sherlock deliberately led John to believe that they were both about to die in the hopes that if John thought those were his last moments, he would finally open up about his feelings for Sherlock, admit that he was in love with Sherlock and not with Mary, and agree to leave Mary for Sherlock. But Sherlock misjudged the situation. John still wasn't prepared to face his feelings at that point. For John, the confrontation in the train car came too soon after Sherlock's return and before he'd had enough time to process how he truly felt about Sherlock being back. Sherlock was heartbroken when he realized that John wasn't prepared to open up and say more than he did at the graveyard, but when he saw this was the case, he revealed that he'd already turned off the bomb and used humor to diffuse the situation (which is a strategy Sherlock uses several times in S3 when he and John get themselves into emotional situations that he thinks they're unprepared to handle).

I especially appreciate your point about the entryway scene because your reading of this scene suggests that John might have only needed another day or two after that tense moment in the train car before he actually would be prepared to talk to Sherlock about his feelings. This fits so well with John's earlier behavior in TEH! When Sherlock first revealed himself to John at the Landmark, John was furious with him, and they clearly didn't part on good terms that evening. But the next day, less than 24 hours later, John had already cooled off and was counting down the hours until he could visit Sherlock after work. So perhaps John felt very similarly during and after the train car scene. At first everything happens too quickly for him, and he isn't prepared to reveal how he feels. But a day later, he's had time to process and he's ready to have a more honest conversation with Sherlock, if Sherlock seems receptive.

But of course, Sherlock doesn't understand this. Sherlock thinks that John gave him his answer in the train car and that John still isn't prepared to face his feelings for him and leave Mary. Part of the problem, I think, is that Sherlock never seems to have realized that John tried to visit him at 221B the day after he returned to London. John tried to visit Sherlock that day after his shift at the surgery, but he was kidnapped by Magnussen's men before he got up to the flat. And when John came to visit Sherlock after he rescued him from the bonfire, John didn't make any references to his earlier attempt to come to 221B. It seems like Sherlock was away from the flat and out with Molly when John came by anyway, so he couldn't have observed John on the pavement. So Sherlock never seems to know about this. He never realizes that all John needed was just one day to cool off. As a result, Sherlock closes himself off from John in the entryway scene, trying to mask how he feels as an act of self-preservation.

I am less convinced that John already knows about Sherlock's feelings by this point, though. After all, Moriarty kidnapped John to get to Sherlock back in TGG, and that didn't seem to prompt any epiphanies for John. John didn't seem to realize what Sherlock and Moriarty both had by the end of the pool scene—that Sherlock was in love with John, and that Moriarty could destroy Sherlock by either hurting John or damaging Sherlock and John's relationship.

I agree that by the time the stag night rolls around in TSOT, John has started to feel desperate and would be fully willing to cheat on Mary with Sherlock (or perhaps even leave her for him) if he felt that Sherlock gave him the go-ahead. During the stag night, Sherlock carefully tracks their alcohol intake because he believes that John truly wants to be with Mary and he's determined not to mess this up for John by allowing the two of them to cross their carefully-maintained boundaries with each other. John, however, has other ideas. John purposely spikes Sherlock's drink and takes extra shots himself in a deliberate effort to get them both drunk so that he can make a move on Sherlock. When they're back at 221B and playing the "forehead detectives" game, John does exactly that. But even though Sherlock seems relaxed and comfortable, John doesn't think Sherlock gives him enthusiastic encouragement, and he backs down. (LIST explains this in their meta here.)

To me, all of this indicates that John thinks there's hope that Sherlock might return his feelings, but he still has a lot of doubts. John has never gotten what he sees as a clear answer from Sherlock, so the fact that he thinks they both need to be drunk before he can try to make a move reveals that John doesn't feel completely confident about this. I think this likely demonstrates both that John isn't completely sure how Sherlock feels about him, and that John still isn't comfortable with what his love for Sherlock means for his own sexuality. John seems to have a lot of internalized biphobia in S3 (which is a whole other topic). And even though John knows that he isn't in love with Mary the way he is with Sherlock, and even though he might feel conflicted about settling down with her, he also seems reluctant to let go of his chance at a heteronormative lifestyle with Mary unless Sherlock is completely clear with him.

I've seen a few other people also point to that moment at the wedding reception, after Sherlock reveals that Mary is pregnant, as the moment when John finally realizes that Sherlock is in love with him. I think that's possible, but there's one thing that happens after this that really, really throws me off.

It's the scene between John and Lestrade at 221B in HLV after Sherlock escapes from the hospital. John says to Lestrade, "But why would he care? He’s Sherlock. Who would he bother protecting?" as he sits down in his own chair. And John looks genuinely confused when he say this. John!! In that moment, John still doesn't seem to realize that he is the most important person in the world to Sherlock and that Sherlock would do anything to protect him. Perhaps giving us even more evidence of this, Sherlock calls John's phone a few moments later, and John doesn't immediately answer. If we're following the phone = heart metaphor, then Sherlock is trying to reach out to John's heart, but John still doesn't get it and isn't immediately receptive. ("Answer your phone, I've been calling you!")

I agree that the scene between Sherlock, John, and Mary at 221B after they return from Leinster Gardens is an incredibly important Johnlock scene, but I read John's actions in this scene a little differently from how you do. It seems to me that John still doesn't realize that Sherlock is in love with him, and in this scene John feels furious at himself for being so in love with Sherlock when he believes that Sherlock will never feel the same way about him. John is angry at himself for never being able to let Sherlock go, no matter how hard he tries. Making things even worse, John thinks, when he tried to move on from Sherlock and find someone who wasn't like Sherlock, someone who could give him the safe, heteronormative lifestyle that he thinks he's supposed to want, the whole thing blew up in his face and led to this awful situation. So when John grits out "Always your way," to Sherlock, I think he's expressing his frustration that no matter what happens, he will always do things Sherlock's way. John is disgusted and angry at himself for being so hopelessly in love with Sherlock and unable to move on when he thinks that Sherlock will never love him back.

I do think it's possible that John finally figures things out at some point in HLV, though, and that's because of the waterfall scene in TAB. In that scene, we get this exchange:

Sherlock: Thank you, John. John: Since when do you call me “John”? Sherlock: (smiling tenderly) You’d be surprised. John: (smiling back at him) No, I wouldn’t.

As you and @ivyblossom said here, this is the moment when John reveals that he knows Sherlock is in love with him. And I also think that the way John delivers this dialogue and the tender shared smiles between him and Sherlock indicate that John is completely at peace with this. So if we read this scene as one of the many scenes in TAB that tell us something about the parts of the show that we've already seen, then this seems to give us proof that by the time Sherlock got on the plane in HLV, John had already realized that Sherlock was in love with him—and had perhaps even made peace with that.

If that's the case, but John still didn't know by the time of the scene between him and Greg in 221B, then I think it's most likely that John figured it out after Sherlock shot Magnussen. That was an incredible act of love and self-sacrifice on Sherlock's part, and even though John doesn't seem to immediately realize this in the moment, his behavior during the tarmac scene suggests that he might have figured it out afterwards. During the tarmac scene, John clearly telegraphs through his body language that he isn't prepared for an emotional goodbye with Sherlock. Sherlock picks up on this, and because Sherlock is so incredibly selfless and loves John so much, he backs down from his initial plan of finally telling John that he loves him. Sherlock realizes that John can't handle hearing that, so he once again switches to humor to try to diffuse the situation and to make John more comfortable. So, I think it's possible that John realized Sherlock was in love with him after he shot Magnussen, and that's part of why he's so upset and so unprepared for an emotional goodbye on the tarmac.

But...I say this mostly because of the waterfall scene in TAB, and I don't think the tarmac scene alone gives us definitive proof. It would still be entirely reasonable for John to feel and act the way he does on the tarmac because of his own feelings for Sherlock, without knowing that Sherlock is in love with him.

Ultimately, I think TAB still leaves things murky. There are two other possible readings of the waterfall scene, as I see it. First, all of this happens in Sherlock's head, so it's possible that this is simply what Sherlock wants desperately. Sherlock longs for John to realize that he's in love with him, to finally overcome his internalized biphobia, and to accept both his feelings for Sherlock and Sherlock's feelings for him wholeheartedly. So this could all be Sherlock's dream, but not his and John's reality at this point in the show. Alternatively, I also think the waterfall scene was initially intended to foreshadow a different ending to the show (one where Moriarty was actually still alive) that the creators abandoned for some unknown reason when they made S4. I know you've written about this scene as foreshadowing in your TAB metas! So perhaps we could also read the dialogue between John and Sherlock here as foreshadowing, indicating that John would eventually come to realize that Sherlock was in love with him and accept this. But he hadn't yet.

So in the end, I'm not sure that we have an answer as to whether or not John ever realizes that Sherlock is in love with him. The big thing that really throws things off for me is that one scene between John and Greg in HLV, because it really seems to indicate that John hadn't figured things out before that point. (If you or anyone else reading this has another explanation for that scene, though, I'd love to hear it!) If it weren't for John's dialogue in that scene, I could definitely see a lot of the other scenes in HLV as evidence that Sherlock and John both know about each other's feelings. And I also totally agree with you that something seems to have gone terribly wrong behind the scenes after S3, and the creators scrapped their original plans for the show's ending. To me, that's a big reason why TAB leaves things feeling so ambiguous. Since we'll never know exactly what the creators were planning for the rest of the show when they made TAB, it's hard to know if the waterfall scene was meant to provide commentary on events that had already happened, to reflect Sherlock's desires and nothing more, or foreshadow what was yet to come. And if it was intended to do some mixture of all three, then we don't know what that means for the Johnlock moment in that scene.

Anyway, thanks again for replying to my ask! I'm sorry I wrote something so long right back at you, but this post just got longer and longer the more I thought about everything! A big thank you to anyone else who might have stumbled upon this and read it 😊

Hi! If you're still open to answering Sherlock-related asks, I was wondering when you think John realized Sherlock was in love with him? I know you've said you think they both know about each other's feelings, and I'm with you on when Sherlock figures out about John. But I've never been able to quite figure out when John recognizes Sherlock's feelings. I think the waterfall scene in TAB implies that John knows, and I think he might know by the time of the tarmac scene. But I'm not sure. Thanks!

Hello! I am so sorry for this huge delay. I was busy IRL and at the same time a lot of stuff was happening in another fandom which is very active rn, so the ask was kinda staying behind. I know answered asks get a notification however I will tag you here too @winterdaphne2 to make sure you see this after all this time.

Yes, I strongly believe John knows by HLV. I talk about it a little in the meta "Why did Sherlock push John and Mary back together?" . The key phrase "Your way. Always your way" and the context within which it was uttered, John's confession that Mary was never supposed to be someone he would truly fall in love with (as opposed to Sherlock who was ticking all John's boxes, adventurous people living in danger etc) and Sherlock understanding it but pretending he didn’t and thus failing John and provoking more anger in him ("Why is everything...always... MY FAULT?!"), all those things make me conclude John knew by that point that Sherlock loved him and yet he was insisting on doing nothing about it. In other words, John knew the truth.

As to when he first realised, well we should keep in mind that John suspects Sherlock is gay from the very first day they moved in together because everybody who knows Sherlock insinuates it, Mycroft, Mrs Hudson, Donovan... The fact that from the Blind Banker onwards John suddenly becomes very heteronormative and defensive shows he feels a "threat" in the atmosphere, both due to his own impulses but also due to Sherlock's flamboyant demeanour, his habits, including casually walking around him naked (see John’s blog). In fact, when John starts suspecting Sherlock might be into the Woman, he's equal parts angry and startled. I suppose there was no way to know before the third season because Sherlock was so emotionally guarded, however he did hope, given his suspicions that Sherlock was gay and that their bond was unique and he was visibly an exception in how Sherlock treated people in his life.

At the wedding night John sees the sorrow on Sherlock's face and nearly has a heart attack. I think everything was confirmed there for him. However, I think the time he started landing on the conclusion for good was in TEH. This is the episode in which, after John is kidnapped and thrown into the fire, John keeps pressing Sherlock for an answer regarding why one would choose to harm him if it's Sherlock they are after. He is not truly wondering though. He lingers in the pavement (always a romantic affair, Sherlock tells us in the next episode) and then goes up and asks this with a very knowing look. Then again towards the end of the episode, in the staircase. His face screams suspicion, it screams tease, it screams expectation to finally hear Sherlock say it. Alas, Sherlock doesn't. Met with Sherlock's stubborness and with a wedding proposal looming over his head, John has no choice but to open up himself so he starts telling Sherlock that he went to his grave and "spoke" to him. Sherlock acknowelges this but again chooses to avoid the conversation John tries to start multiple times. John gives up and resumes his proposal to Mary. I think at this episode John finally knew for sure but he also realised that Sherlock was determined to not act on his feelings. I have made a more detailed analysis of this with pictures in the meta "John's Choices (from TEH to TLD)".

Besides, the next episode, TSOT, is the only time John actually makes a physical advance on Sherlock. Sure he was inebriated but I think John had SO many inhibitions anyway that even when drunk he would not be so bold if he wasn’t getting all the green lights of the world from Sherlock at that moment. So, he knew. He knew that if Sherlock dropped his fascade, he would want this.

[dreamsy990]

i drew silly gijinkas of my dogs

the dogs in question

[izzyspussy]

i think a lot of people have never been in a truly desperate situation but think they have, and this causes them to pass really harsh judgment on people who made bad choices when either irrational or having no good choices to pick instead, and i really wish people could get some fucking self-perception and work on their compassion skills and not fucking do that as much anymore

[hexcitrine]

randomly looked at this account to update my age and holy shit it's been a while since i posted here..........i have a small pile of art i have yet to post but hbhbshdbshbd too lazy

[windupaidoneus]

this need for approval is a fucking disease it is absolutely mind boggling that i need feedback on what i say & post or my mind decides everyone takes a look at it & goes yep here goes this annoying freak again talking about his annoying freak things. & im not even like that with everyone. it literally does not fucking matter oh my goddd grow UP! im normal now. i understand my minds machinations. misto is nodding in approval at me

[aeide-thea]

disjointed thoughts abt like. various anti-'normalization' takes i've seen and how actually i think like. expanding the range of things people are aware of & comfortable with is in fact often a helpful step towards becoming less dependent on the concept of normality to determine acceptability, because once you understand that normal isn't in fact a narrowly fixed range but is subjective and can be widened, it becomes a much softer yardstick & less of a bludgeon

[nellectronic]

people who have changed their names. how do you Know

[sneefsnorf]

OH HEY!! do you have final thoguhts on ultrakill and gabriel and the v's and everything :333333 <- my agenda

machine. ive spent my life loved and revered by my people and my church. i trusted my institution and my Father because i never had a reason not to, machine. the council and the people had such high expectations of me and i always rose to meet them. my achievements were many. everything was perfect. and then you took it all from me, machine. i failed ONCE. i wasnt what the church wanted me to be exactly and they tore their love away from me. its not fair. not in the slightest. ive been thinking a lot. ive been reflecting on the churches and the institutions of mankind. so many of them have warped the word of the Father into whatever will give them the most power. they use his teachings to break down and bully those they hate. they grind them into the ground and humiliate them as much as they can, not just for their own self-gain, but for the sake of hatred. this is what the council has done to me, machine, and now i have joined your ranks. all their love for me revoked as soon as i couldnt be what they wanted, thrown from the gates of heaven like the queers and the freaks. i've joined your ranks, machine. i'm less than a person now. and i am filled with so much rage.

anyways thanks for driving me to the abortion clinic machine i really appreciate it