#would i like to see him in a main antagonist role more? yes

[doolallymagpie]

I used to be annoyed Helsingard wasn't the Big Bad, and now I think it's one of the best parts of Atomic Robo, that this character who by all means should be more of a threat gets more of a *Nandor voice* fucking guy reaction

[wlwmedarda]

I'm honestly just looking to rant and this might be long depending on how fast I get irritated the more I type so if this isn't coherent or well written I apologize in advance. Since it looks like Ambessa will take on a more antagonistic role in arcane season two, I would like to unpack the fandom's antiblackness that you guys are either blind to or aware and too pussy to call it out as my gut is telling me it's gonna increase and if no one is gonna start the difficult conversation then I sure as hell will.

Sevika:

Mel:

Starting off strong with the definition of "you guys want complex female characters but can't even handle her". Mel Medarda is in quite the predicament seeing how she's morally grey, a black woman, AND "gets in the way" of a mlm ship so she was kinda screwed from the start. A cunning politician disowned for her pacifism who acts as a sort of bridge to Noxus' slow introduction, and is THE ONLY CHARACTER IN THE SEASON 1 MAIN CAST SPECIFICALLY CREATED FOR THE SHOW. She's treated like satan incarnate or a Jezebel (highly suggest looking into that if you don't know what that is), GOOD character analysis is rare, and when she is talked about positively, it's so often chalked up to appearances that I'd rather yall not talk about her at all. Oh you love Mel? Then can we talk about her relationship with her mother? Unpack her dynamic with Jayce? Maybe more fanworks centered around her? I've seen yall's fake asses dropping the shittiest fucking takes about her only to turn around and gush over how pretty she is, and yall think you're slick about it and you're not. I would say I prefer the ones who are loud and proud about their hatred but that'd be a lie, they're two cheeks on the same ass; annoying and couldn't give a decent break down of her character if a gun was pointed at they head even she's perfect to dissect. I could talk about her more but we'd be here all day and so many black women even from outside the fanbase have already talked about yall so there's no need for me to add on 🤷🏾‍♀️🤷🏾‍♀️🤷🏾‍♀️🤷🏾‍♀️.

Quick question, have you guys ever tried to talk about her in a non sexual way? Yes, Sevika is undeniably sexy and you could argue that true stans of hers talk about her outside of horny time, but a good half of the fandom is a different story. In a similar case to Mel's, deep dives into her character are rare to find which is crazy when she acts as Zaun's own "kingmaker". She's loyal to her city and the cause, never to a specific person and will not hesitate to betray you. She could be your right hand man one day, and the next she might find a better kingpin to follow and stab you in the back like it all meant nothing. "Were you tempted?" "Not for a worm like him". Simple and subtle and probably my favorite Sevika scene; she comes to realize Silco is no longer the best leader for Zaun, but he's as good as it gets for now and so she sticks by him. I remember a YouTube comment breaking down how she's essentially the quintessential Zaun: a brute warrior molded by her environment, who defied Vander's peaceful ways and embraced Silco's cruelty. Her mindset and goal is interesting and you'd think it'd result in some fascinating meta or exploration of her upbringing when we got a hint that she potentially has some daddy issues right? Obviously, but what do we get instead? White sapphics treating her like nothing more than a sexual object. How delightful!

Ekko:

This might partially be Riot's fault because — and I hate to sound like a league lore nerd — Ekko is quite underdeveloped compared to the richer origins of his former pre arcane self, but I'm gonna hold off on that till the season finale to see how they handle him. Anyways, at this point the fandom clearly sees him as Jinx's trophy husband. When you talk about him, she is brought into the convo 90% of the time. That's exactly why I prefer black timebomb shippers over the nonblack ones because I trust they actually love Ekko as a character on his own. Even though I have my complaints regarding how's been written so far, I still know he's too good to be reduced to Jinx's loverboy. He fights and cares for his city, the only character that you can confidently say is pure of heart, and is the revolutionary leader Zaun really needs. He's just as smart as Jinx too, he is literally going to create TIME TRAVEL. Why does no one wanna talk about that? Can we be excited for his character development and arc not just for the timebomb scenes you'll get out of it?

Ambessa:

Can't even deny this woman is awful but her presence on screen enthralled me after a couple of rewatches and I also love bad mothers in media so I've settled on a love/hate relationship. Yes, she's definitely gonna have some influence on Caitlyn, which makes sense since she has now lost her mother; she's vulnerable and as we have seen, naive. She's practically free real estate for Ambessa. My recent worry though has been how the fandom seems to be willing to put all of Caitlyn's actions on her as if Cait isn't a grown ass woman who can make her own decisions. Of course being grown doesn't mean you're immune to manipulation, but I've seen some Silco and Jinx comparisons and it is NOT the same. Mind you we haven't even seen the first three episodes; we don't know how far Ambessa's manipulation is going to go and we can't really tell what the dynamic is gonna be like based off of clips and trailers that are likely shown out of context on purpose to throw people off. I'll never defend her actions, hell I'll join in on the lashings, but my black ass is also not gonna sit here and let yall talk about her weirdly or pin all of this on her.

Some might say I'm overthinking this, but I've been here since November 2021 and have sat back and observed for 2 years. You don't have to write deep, philosophical conversations 24/7, I'm sure it's not all in bad faith and I won't act like I don't thirst over Sevika or marvel at Mel's beauty. I'm not saying you have to like these characters and that you're racist if you don't. My frustration comes from the lack of nuanced conversations and hypocritical opinions surrounding black characters in this show. When you try to say something about this, you're hit with excuses; it reminds me of how man obsessed fujoshis act when they're questioned for not giving two fucks about female characters. They're either reduced to one character trait, only admired for their looks, or only discussed when it's about the white character they're connected to. Do NOT under ANY circumstance be black and morally ambiguous, you WILL be held to higher moral standards than everyone's wittle blorbos who can do wrong and are defended from all sides when you dare to take the rose colored stan glasses off and criticize them. What's really ridiculous is you hear the "complex characters" bullshit every two to three business days and some of you have the nerve to boast about this series being diverse while simultaneously ignoring the complexities in the characters of color. This is the main reason I took a step back and with season two around the corner I thought "Hey, maybe it'll be better this time!" and it was a mistake. Good to know yall still have an underlying racism problem you don't wanna address but with some extra classism thrown in. "What will we do once Arcane ends?" hopefully get a job, touch some grass, and reflect. Lord knows yall need it. The faster yall sizzle out the better. I'm done that's all I have to say lol goodnight 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽.

[azurem]

Tis one was also a request from the instagram im afraid. Hm. Okay quick yapping under cut

Okay so this rq was based on the idea of nm asking ink to marry him. However I believe the idea of marriage for Ink at least is a bit more complicated specially since marrying Nightmare means rebuilding his role

Like he'd only been fooling around with nm. At this point, their relationship has been centered around usefulness. They both use each other at a degree, and that was fine for both of them. They use each other to receive affection and to give it freely. They've been well and good. They could stay like that forever and that'd be fine.

But Nightmare still asked him to marry him. So it takes another tone. The main thing that confuses Ink is... reasons. He lives in a world where entropy doesn't exist. Creators make everything happen, there's no chaos. So everything has a reason to be. They know Nightmare likes him, they know his secrets and he knows theirs as well. But why would Nightmare make a point of marrying him when they were already a solid thing.

Was it a way to send a message? Does he want to make sure their things remain private? Is it to demonstrate love, a higher love? Maybe this was his way of tying Ink to him, to make sure that time would erode all his edges?

The idea of marrying and his role after also is complex for him because Ink is the one who'd get subjected to more change. Nm already has a solid antagonistic role while Ink goes with the flow. To be known as his husband would mean that his meta role (what the creators see when they look at him) would change. He'd have a solid bias and the role to prove it. He'd be more character than a concept for once and for all.

It's scary. Nightmare scares him because he radicalizes him. He cannot remain neutral as long as their thing remains a thing. Nightmare makes them a character and grounds them to the multiverse as a solid, warm thing and not just as an ideal they must protect.

So why did they say yes?

[lintwriting]

I was here when mouthwashing was just a demo. here are some things I noticed.

I caught on to the fact that Curly was likely innocent and that Jimmy was an unreliable narrator based on the "Take Responsibility" word scramble and Jimmy's asshole behavior. Because of this, I also did not think there would be supernatural horror, I thought it’d be man-made and psychological, which I was right about.

What I did not expect was the subtle depiction of how workplaces fail victims of rape and misogyny.

What I did not expect was how backgrounded the late stage capitalism critique ended up being.

late stage capitalism: a red herring

From the Demo, you focus a lot on the corporation as the main antagonist, probably because Wrong Organ devs were hiding the villain protagonists.

Ominous posters, a Polle monster chasing you, those ominous TV commercials glorifying working for a corporation, the fact that all this horror was over fucking tooth-rotting mouthwash. Really paints the picture of a corporate horror or conspiracy a la “Time to Orbit: Unknown,” where every chapter unveils a new corporate conspiracy for money and power.

but instead, in mouthwashing, the capitalist aspects are merely plot devices to explore the horror surrounding mismanagement and its consequences.

A power tripping coworker and an enabling manager who got him the job. An eager-to-please kid and an established supervisor willing to take advantage. Flaws in how the hierarchy is decided, leading to the one person who shouldn’t have had power getting the power. Lack of sensitivity training (or whatever that’s called) surrounding things like Title IX concerns, such as the uneven gender dynamics or what to do in the event of a crime or the fact that the person doing the psych evals isn’t getting any evals.

Notice that none of these things are unique to capitalism, they’re issues you’d have to plan for in any workplace/organization, whether that be socialist or capitalist or whatever. The capitalism exacerbates the issues or catalyzes the consequences of them like a plot device, but the issues don’t originate from there.

For example: the lack of any woman other than Anya.

Yes, this was most likely exacerbated by late stage capitalism understaffing to cut corners, leading to skeleton crews, but that the crew we DO have is mostly male is more related to misogyny or gender roles.

Perhaps women don't want to work on these freighters because of the danger of being trapped in a confined space with men. Maybe the jobs required for these freighters, like mechanic or pilot, are male-dominated. Or maybe the hiring manager had a bias where they viewed men as more competent, etc. The fact of the matter is that the cause is the same when you dig down deep into it: misogyny.

Or the layoff. The laying off of the crew is its own form of evil, but its consequences aren’t the ones being explored within this story. Most of the crew die of the horrors within the ship before they ever have to face it. In fact, the horrors within the ship don't really even have anything to do with the layoff at all. It’s a bit of a red herring.

Rather, the actual cause of this game’s horror is the mismanaged fallout of Jimmy’s assault. Most obviously in that scene where we see Curly for the first time, wherein Curly doesn’t take Anya’s safety concerns seriously, even when Jimmy is actively threatening to make everyone disappear so neither of them have to face the consequences of the assault.

I initially misread that scene as Curly evilly conspiring to let Jimmy crash the ship so neither of them would take the fall, hence us finally seeing Curly's “true face.” Because I read what Jimmy said as inherently threatening and serious, I thought Curly had agreed to that awful plan and only got cold feet at the last minute.

It’s only from reading other comments that I realized Curly had most likely assumed Jimmy was blowing hot air and needed to cool down in that scene. Or that he was making an inappropriate joke akin to his 'sexually attracted to cartoon horses' thing and wasn't being serious. Curly didn’t realize Jimmy was actually talking about a real plan until it was too late stop it (makes me wonder if Jimmy was actually attracted to the horse, too).

Thus, it goes from a story about corner-cutting late stage capitalist megacorps to a story about cartoonishly evil, power-tripping men to a story about how we enable these men with failures in our system.

Much like how the beginning of the game, when Jimmy crashes the ship, a failure in the safety systems is what allows the crash to happen (Seriously? One pilfered key is all you need to send your ship into a crash?), a series of social safety nets had to have failed to let him into the cockpit in the first place. The true face is not Curly conspiring to crash the ship out of cowardice and greed, but his inability to face what his friend has done.

[miyamiwu]

Unpopular opinion: There is no Link Click “trio.” It’s just the ShiGuang Duo + Qiao Ling

Now, before the Qiao Ling fans come after me, I just want to make it clear that I do not hate Qiao Ling. She’s a queen, and I love her. What I do hate, however, is the writers’ neglect of her character.

Warning: This will contain major Link Click season 1 and 2 spoilers.

Cheng Xiaoshi, Lu Guang, and Qiao Ling have been marketed as the main trio right from the OPs and EDs all the way to the different official artworks and PVs. But despite this, Qiao Ling has never been portrayed like a protagonist in the story itself. Her value has always been tied to some other character, and what’s sadder is that even as a supporting character, she’s still being neglected by the writers.

Cheng Xiaoshi and Lu Guang both have something in themselves that push the story forward. Cheng Xiaoshi’s recklessness in s1 is what gives tension to the dives and what leads to the overarching plot related to Emma. His planning in s2 also keeps the plot going. On the other hand, Lu Guang acts as the voice of reason, grounding the fantasy aspect of the show. His hypocrisy revealed in s2 also reshapes how we view the entire story.

But what about Qiao Ling?

Throughout most of season 1, she’s been kept in the dark about ShiGuang’s powers, which in turn excludes her from a big part of the story. In s1, it was only during the kidnapping arc that we see a bit more about her, but the focus wasn’t on her at all but on some random extra. And at the last episode when she finally gets to be in on the whole eye power thing, Li Tianchen possesses her, overshadowing Qiao Ling entirely and redirecting our attention and interest to him. (Extra: In season 1, between Qiao Ling and Emma, would you dare say Qiao Ling is the protagonist? I bet you won’t.)

Then in s2, despite Qiao Ling’s extra screen time and more involvement in the plot, the neglect of her character is even more palpable. She got possessed by a murderer, nearly killed her friend, and even tried to stab her own brother, but even after all these, we barely get to see how she had to process everything.

It’s really no surprise many people loved this scene:

This, for me, is the one time, the ONE time Qiao Ling is portrayed as a character on equal grounds with Cheng Xiaoshi and Lu Guang. If Link Click were a sports anime, this would be the scene where she discards her role as the female manager over a bunch of male athletes and expresses her desire to become a player as well.

But unfortunately, after this episode, Qiao Ling is once again pushed to the sidelines. She’s a player now, yes, but a player who’s just being pushed along the game. She may take the initiative in some things (like talking to Li Tianxi), but even then, the things she do are all still just to help her friends. You know, like a supporting character. None of what she’s doing is for herself alone. (If any Blue Lock fans are reading this, Qiao Ling has no “ego,” so to speak.)

Qiao Ling has no goals of her own, and this is how the writers failed her.

All the other major characters have their own goals. Heck, even the antagonists are more like protagonists than Qiao Ling.

Cheng Xiaoshi wants to find his parents. And he also just wants to help the people he meets in dives

Lu Guang selfishly broke the rules of time travel just to keep one man alive and will do it again if he must

Li Tianxi betrays her brother and Qian Jin just to find a way home

Li Tianchen approaches ShiGuang and later kidnaps Cheng Xiaoshi because he also wants to go home

And Liu Xiao wants to, I don’t know, change the rules of time and space entirely?

God, writing that last bullet makes me realize that even Liu Xiao, who only showed up in the last episode of season 2, has more weight in the story than Qiao Ling. This is ridiculous.

Seriously, what is Qiao Ling even here for??? Play big sister???

Just market her as a supporting character. It’s fine. She’s still badass.

I also don’t have much hopes over how she will be in season 3 because of how season 2 ended. Qiao Ling seeing Lu Guang’s memories means her worth in s3 will inevitably be tied to this secret. It’s the s1 ending all over again. At the end of s1, her worth was tied to the mysterious Red Eyes. At the end of s2, it’s tied to Lu Guang.

If the Link Click writers are gonna keep pushing her as a protagonist, then they better start treating her like one!

It’s not enough to just give Qiao Ling a goal, by the way (although it is very important too). She must also become a player who has the power to control how the game goes. If she ends up inheriting Li Tianxi’s powers, as many theories have said, then may the drama around her not be focused on how she may leak Lu Guang’s secret at any time.

I don’t know what she could do with her powers, but I think it would be very interesting if she ends up opposing Lu Guang.

Lu Guang wants to keep Cheng Xiaoshi alive, but...

...he’s no longer alive. The Cheng Xiaoshi we see is just a glimpse of the past...

What if… as Qiao Ling sees more of Lu Guang’s memories, she sees more of the real Cheng Xiaoshi and suddenly… wants to let go… wants to move on?

The fandom have talked a lot about how ShiGuang may react once the secret is out. But what about how Qiao Ling would react to it over time as she realizes those memories weren’t just her overthinking things?

In season 1, she couldn’t bear to face that kid’s father for years, and at the end of s2, she couldn’t bear to confront Lu Guang… In s3, how long can she bear looking at her dead brother?

The chances of her “giving up” Cheng Xiaoshi and returning to the original timeline is slim, though. I’m just giving an example of how she can be more like a protagonist.

Anyways, I’ll end here… I still have so many thoughts, but I can’t figure out how to organize them. This has also been in my drafts for over two weeks and I just want to post it already!

[sarasade]

What I personally want to see from TDP season 6

1.Aaravos' backstory should reveal something truly new and surprising about the world, be it a perspective shift or cosmic horror. I'd really like to see such a hyped up and enigmatic character give us some kind of cool and bold story climax or deepen our understanding of the themes of the show.

2.I want to see the main characters facing a difficult challenge. Finnegrin's Wake in s5 was a good start for Callum but I just want more, ya know. It can be anything: a physical, emotional, moral quandary etc. This is why I find Viren so compelling. He's the one whose beliefs have been challenged the most and he has changed the most.

3. Make the conflict between Callum and Aaravos personal. I love me some good hero-antagonist character chemistry but Aaravos is more of a plot device at this point. This is why Viren was such a good villain. He was outright cruel to Ezran and Callum and it was very personal. Yes, the conflict still fits the story's themes about free will vs. destiny etc. but some kind of personal connection would make it feel more tangible.

This is why I think Viren (if alive) and Claudia (if she turns against Aaravos) should play a role in taking him down. Claudia especially has been relatively sympathetic as Aaravos' prey compared to Viren who had much more agency and more egoistical motivations behind his decisions. They have so much personal beef with Aaravos it isn't even funny.

Just some thoughts I wanted to write down<3

[wonderfull-star]

My own idea of ​​Peri as an antagonist(updated)

Some believe that he may become an antagonist because of his disagreements and arguments with Dev, some believe that it is because of the childhood trauma after leaving Timmy (which I also like), but I believe that it will be connected with his ambiguous attitude towards Irep. As I wrote in previous post, Peri and Irep have a special connection with each other than other fairies and anti fairies. Irep in the original cartoon series played the role of "cartoon villain". However, everything Irep/Foop did goes downhill. And not only because the main characters and some other ones thwarted his plans, but also because of himself. Irep has never been and will not be pure evil, and with each episode and season he will show it even more(in the new show too I think?). The same with Peri, but vice versa. Almost the main protagonist, ready to come to the aid of the main character. Always had a charming trait that many liked. However, there is a tougher and more chaotic side to him. It feels like he can always sense his interlocutor and when he needs to stop in time. Peri also has another side of his personality, just like Irep.

That's why I think Irep will appear in Season 2, but not as a threat as before and not as an antagonist as he was at the end of Season 1. That is, I think everything will be like in the original cartoon series. In that case, there would be another great parallel that has already been present a couple of times in the new show.And I think in that case Peri’s and Irep’s "break" will come to an end. That is, they will get along again like they did in season 9 (correct me if I'm wrong).

Okay, it's angst and drama time.

My idea is that over time Peri will start to break the rules a little bit. And the first "break" of the rules was that he wanted to go back to Dev. And that was the starting point when he wanted to leave the "rules" on the back burner for Dev. And it will even go so far that he will change his style of clothing to be similar to Irep's.

Do you feel some irony yet? Yes, my idea is "role reversal". Peri from the one who was constantly worried about following the rules to the one who later began to break them himself. And also Irep who loved all this chaos and destruction will become more worried about many things and more reserved. After further rule violations, causes Peri’s sphere on a wand to shatter, releasing the accumulated energy and causing severe damage to everything around it. This was the final straw for Jorgen to remove him as a godparent after being given a second chance, saying "even Irep could have done better than you". After that, Peri felt betrayed and angry at everyone, including himself first of all. At that moment Peri believed that everything was over for him: “all his efforts, earned authority and most importantly – the trust and love of his parents.” And this gave rise to another emotional breakdown and a wave of magic. He started attacking everything in a row and the first one who stood up for everyone was Irep. Another irony in the style of "you became what you once hated"(Yes, I decided to take a little idea from season 7 of the original cartoon series.). In the end, it will all end with Irep becoming Dev’s godparent again, but already officially from Jorgen seeing how he tried to protect Dev, showing himself from the better side. And you know what? I see it. At that moment at the end of season 1, Irep liked spending time with Dev. And I see how he, just like with Chloe in the past, like Peri, will become attached to Dev. Then he saved Chloe from Vicky and now I like to imagine how he will also treat Dev like this.

So seeing how Peri’s once former enemy who tried to destroy him became a godparent instead of him will hurt Peri. He knew that he failed as a parent for the second time, caused great damage with his magic, and most importantly for him- let his parents down. Therefore, the only thing Peri did after realizing all this was start crying causing rain.

Now it's all over. Now Peri and Irep are enemies again, but this time from Peri's side. And now hatred for Irep has awakened in him with the only thought- that only he can be a godparent…

[cherryfennec]

I don't know if you're still thinking about your Bad End AU at the moment but have you considered giving the original villains/antagonists a bit of a role reversal? (like Team Bleck searching for the pure hearts and unintentionally becoming the heros of prophesy in a way?) Even if they were just minor annoyances it might be fun exploring the dynamic between "heros" and "villains"

So sorry if this ask comes across as rude or demanding in any way, going through your AU's tag has brought back 12 years of mental illness for 'Bad End' style Paper Mario stuff haha

I hope you have a wonderful rest of the year!

TBH the hardest thing about this AUs story is picking the way to defeat the evil.

Like obviously you have the 'heroes' that want to defeat the MAIN evil which is the Queen (the way my writings been going im gonna most likely give that role to a team mixed of paper mario partners from the 1st and 2nd game) and are most likely going to try once again to get to the Crystal Stars on their own. (like i said as far as ive gotten with the writing that's the current draft) so basically partners are gonna fight the main cast.

For Bleck Team in particular while they won't be joining the Crystal Star hunt I can definitely see them focusing on getting the Pure Hearts now to get everything to the way that they wanted it to be: for the Count to have the Chaos Heart. They would try to get at least some of the Pure Hearts to more so weaken Dimentio and beat him up rather than to entirely get rid of the Heart because that'd be reversing progress. Maybe they would ultimately come to the conclusion that destroying everything isnt the way too who knows. So yes! In that particular yes! It'd be great to send them in that direction!

If there's any other evil that this could be done with as well I unfortunately don't remember it right now. But yeah absolutely!

Thank you and have a wonderful rest of the year as well!

[erch0maii]

thoughts on the dragon prince s7, in no particular order (spoilers!)

about the bad guys

- i weirdly missed viren this season. never realized how much he brought to this show until he wasn't in it anymore. him and claudia are some of the best things about the dragon prince, in my humble opinion

- speaking of which: oh. my. god. claudia. i love her. that look with the dragonscale and the short black-and-white hair? absolutely stunning. gorgeous. iconic. unprecedented. did i mention i love her??? the nuance to her character is still so good. she never became a stereotypically evil villain and never lost her quirkiness, and i am so glad for it!!! she's still the perfect mixture between dark and loving, symbolizing the greatest thing about this story.

- i still miss early seasons aaravos. he went from a clever, charming schemer to evil laughing and taunting in season 4 and they never managed to recover the magic from that early dynamic he had with viren. i miss the nuance of the trickster. he was far more engaging as an antagonist then. i wished they kept going down that path. i wish he kept sweet talking people instead of taunting and mocking them. i wished he stayed more reasonable / pragmatic, especially considering this show is so big on talking out conflicts. he could have been redeemed, maybe. he could have been less cocky - after centuries of scheming he should have a million backups but he was so overly confident and why? i'll forever be sad about the direction they went in with him.

- speaking of aaravos: his pathetic emo scrunkly sickly victorian man persona had me FEASTING. what an aesthetic. ICONIC.

- terry. oh terry. such a great character. following his own path and his own values, and never hesitating to do what is the right thing in his own moral framework. best boy. wholesome. also: incredible 'hello, zuko here' reference. never change terry. i love you.

- glad karim got fucked. slimy little asshole deserved all of that and more.

about the good guys

- rayla and callum. glad they got their happy ending. i was never really into the ship, but they both deserve to be happy. i was a huge fan of the domestic 'meet the in-laws' episode that callum had with runaan and ethari. i feel like callum also is one of the most consistent characters of the show, which i really like about him. he has that same mixture of dark and light that you get with claudia. i would have liked to see more of their dynamic, they interact well with each other as two sides of the same coin. doesn't take away the fact that i would have loved seeing callum master more magic.

- runaan and ethari's reunion brought tears to my eyes. i love these elf husbands so much and i'm so glad we got to see so much of runaan. always liked him, and it was great to see him and rayla bicker like they did in s1.

- ezran. oh boy, here we go. to be honest, he didn't have much going for him in my book since i never really liked him, starting from the fact that his voice acting was really grating in the early seasons. yes, he's supposed to be the main character / audience stand-in / the one the kids are supposed to identify with but... he evolved from a kind of annoying 'i can speak to animals and like jelly tarts' baby brother over an at times hypocritical boy king all the way into 'yeah we should get weapons of mass destruction!' ??? do i understand the reasoning behind his decisions here? yeah. but he was completely insufferable for me this season.

-which brings me to aanya. idk what it is about the kid characters in this show. but she's such a non-character as well? iirc she is voiced by the kid of one of the creators or producers and boy the kid didn't really get an attractive role. kinda bland. speaks without saying anything. the "wise" child queen who advices to use weapons as mass destruction as a deterrent. she used to be the voice of reason?? what an example to set to your audience.

about the plot

- honestly i mostly loved the plot. i was at the tip of my seat though the middle of this season and had a couple episodes where i felt like i hadn't taken a breath in over an hour. loved how everything consistenly kept going wrong for the good guys. it made the stakes feel higher and higher. it genuinely felt like the writers got out of the slump after the kind-of-meh middle seasons.

-but the ending... not gonna lie, it really disappointed me. the arch dragons coming in to save the day felt like such an ex machina to me. where is the main characters' agency? where is their role in the resolution? instead we get evil necro avizandum turning good to kill aaravos. yay. cool. and now all the dragons are dead. and aaravos is just gonna come back. awesome.

it could have been SO GOOD. did I expect them to kill a main character? no. but callum deciding to sacrifice himself with runaan's help? wanting to spare rayla of having to off him? rayla having to jump in anyways and showing that she could do what had to be done? 'my heart for xadia'? DELICIOUS. but i knew callum was not going to die.

so it could have come down to ezran. ezran picking up the sword and charging into battle on zym? EPIC AF. he could have been the one to deal the final blow - or zym. imagine the ending for their character arcs. ezran finally stepping in and doing the hard thing, especially since he was going down a darker path this season. zym, cementing himself as a proper arch dragon. we could have gotten some kind of epic transformation showing he fully matured - but apparently i play too much guild wars 2.

would this show really give us ezran killing someone? since aaravos is technically not dead i thought the writers could let this slide. we had already seen claudia kill someone on screen and one of the main characters in the show is an actual assassin. my expectations were too high i guess. ezran needed to stay unsullied. i can't help but compare this show to a:tla and it leaves me with the same bittersweet taste: there's a lot of good things, but in the end, the main character never completed their arc.

[tsprants]

NIGHT TWO! three? I DON’T KNOW!! 🎉

i’m thinking about stanley parable again, shockingly. more specifically, the countdown ending, and the narrator’s voice lines, and what all of that has to do with his role in the game and story (yes. another one about this. i find it to be a compelling topic). if the narrator is to be believed in the countdown ending, then he would most likely be considered the main antagonist of the game, and quite sadistic, at that. according to himself, he erased stanley’s coworkers. this ending does confirm that the endless repeating of the game is actually happening (similar to the apartment ending, where stanley repeats the story over and over in his head), as the narrator describes other runs where he torments stanley for his own pleasure/enjoys his being miserable (e.g. “i turned off the machine; i set you free. of course, that was merely in this instance of the story. Sometimes when i tell it, i simply let you sit there in your office forever, pushing buttons endlessly and then dying alone. other times, i let the office sink into the ground, swallowing everyone inside; or i let it burn to a crisp”). but is it fair to call the narrator an antagonist in this ending? most of the narrator’s actions in the game are almost entirely reactionary, and the countdown ending is no different, as what sets him off in the first place is stanley/the player attempting to gain power by taking control of the mind control facility and machine, therefore derailing the story (“you were supposed to let it go, turn the controls off, and leave. if you want to throw my story off track, you're gonna have to do much better than that.”). short answer: yes! long answer: technically yes, BECAUSE he literally fucking bombed the whole office, admitted to killing hundreds of people, and admitted to torturing stanley over and over and over. it would also work with other endings, such as the cold feet ending, apartment ending, insanity ending, etc. of course, my saying yes is predicated on the assumption that the narrator is being truthful in what he was saying. presuming that he is, that would have several large implications surrounding his character, fan theories, and the game itself. firstly, the narrator is flat-out confirming that yes, he does have memory of every run of the game (this is further emphasised by the fact that his dialogue in the countdown ending changes after you do the ending several times). stanley most likely does note seeing as narrator is having to tell him about other runs. secondly, yes, he is in control of what happens in the game, but not stanley, it would seem. but unpacking that! what would all that mean? starting with the narrator remembering previous runs, that would obviously mean that he remembers the zending and skip button ending, and the not stanley ending (the holy trinity of sadness). he literally remembers just sitting there for billions, maybe even TRILLIONS of years, waiting for stanley to return. He remembers stanley killing himself to stop him from being happy, which is a good jumping-off point for why the narrator is NOT the antagonist (i’m going insane)!! there are multiple endings or paths you can take in the game where stanley/the player intentionally causes the narrator distress, and therefore takes on a more antagonistic role himself. there is, i believe, no set “villain” in the stanley parable, as both stanley and the narrator are consistently villains and victims to one another, which i will expand on in my next 2am rant (maybe if i can be bothered), by talking about the museum ending! yaaaayyy

[mdhwrites]

Why TOH really doesn't want a theme of discrimination.

Every demon in the show is depicted as evil, dumb or as good... because they don't want to be a part of demon culture.

That's the thesis and it's not an over exaggeration. In the main cast, the only demon of the DEMON REALM is Hooty who is treated as slow, less intelligent than the other members of the cast, and as a joke by the writers as he never elevates himself above being simply comic relief. Association with him seems to be the earliest sign that Lilith is meant to be seen as a joke and her relationship with Hooty ostracizes her from the rest of the cast. Makes her appear weird because she's the only one who can like the bird tube.

Otherwise, they're all antagonists. Most of them are just one note villains for that matter. In S1, every demon with a real speaking role is a villain. The monster hunters, Warden Wrath, Tibbles, the basilisk, the publisher for King and even Boscha if her third eye denotes demonic heritage. Anyone who we see at least as neutral are pretty much just background characters. The ones from the prison in the first episode are really the only ones who get a moment of heroism.

Now you might say: What about Bat Queen? She's the richest person on the Isles and she... Isn't a demon. She's a palisman. Made by, or at least for, a god with the insinuation they give. Bare minimum: Not for any demon known to the Isles. So she doesn't count.

There ARE witch antagonists in S1 thankfully. They're Matt, who goes on to obviously be a good person at heart, Amity who... Duh and Lilith who is also redeemed. None of this happens to any of the demons though even if ostensibly this is their world since the entire dimension is named after demons.

Which, as a note, also is part of why saying TOH is anti-colonial means ignoring an entire race.

Even KING, who should have been the demon representative in the main cast, was then retconned not to be one. Worse yet, only once that retcon began did the show start treating him with any real respect. As a demon... He was just a dumb comic relief character as far as the show is concerned.

So when we FINALLY get a reoccurring demon... It's Kikimora. That should be all I need to say there.

Now the final argument: Vee. Vee is a good person, right? She's not a villain or antagonist, just a good person. And you would be right. The framing on Vee is the problem. As the ONE genuinely just good demon, we have to evaluate how she is different. She is different... Because she rejected the Demon Realm. Her parallels with Luz are even supposed to make it clear that she is better at being a human THAN LUZ. Which has the awful implication, if we want to say TOH has anti-discrimination theme, that the only good demon, is a domesticated demon. One who wants to be a human.

That's. Fucking. Awful.

And just to cover my bases: Yes, discrimination is more than a race thing but the concept of discrimination on race is actually pretty much the only one ever brought up. The fact that no one gives a shit about ethnicity or sexuality or gender actually hurts the theme because you have to project those things onto the show instead. And any allegory to discrimination is explicitly done through races. Fantasy races but that still frames it as a racial issue so its theme on anti-discrimination is going to struggle to branch out beyond racial lines because it effectively ignores that any other form of discrimination might even EXIST.

And for the finale!... I don't think any of this is on purpose by the writers. Yes, they bring discrimination into the show but just like how real life conflicts will often ignore the complexities of all the groups present, such as us referring to all Native Americans as one whole group rather than their separate tribes and histories, the show effectively forgets about the demons. They're just there for flavor because if literally all of the characters of the demon realm were elves, it wouldn't feel like it fits the name at all. It adds spice to a scene and adventure if you have demons of all sorts and sizes.

But the witches are the conventionally attractive characters who are easy to latch onto and so they are the main cast. Everything that looks other becomes a target for villainy because of that juxtaposition. Unfortunately, none of this helps any sort theme of inclusivity. That we are supposed to look past the outer shell and see the person within, regardless, race, gender, sexuality, etc. like that.

Instead, TOH tells a very basic fantasy story and in doing so, falls into the fact that a lot of classic fantasy was written by racist white dudes and the fact that the term demon is charged due to LOTS of religions that paint them out as wholly evil. Without actually interrogating these concepts, it can be easy to fall into them.

So yeah, I think this is a theme people need to stop trying to apply to TOH.

======+++++======

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead. If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

A Twitter you can follow too

And a Kofi if you like what I do and want to help out with the fact that disability doesn’t pay much.

[rubykgrant]

I had this one funny concept for a Magnus Archives AU that basically had Jon just constantly being pulled out of the main-character role, so stuff always STARTS to happen, but then it never actually WORKS, and I just thought of a very funny addition to it, so I'm sharing it again-

-At some point, Jon has a bit of a stress-induced breakdown at university and just drops out. Even though they aren't dating anymore, Georgie offers him a place to stay while he kind of tries to sort himself out, and he just. Stays. It's fine

-As a result, Jon is much less pretentious, but a LOT more blunt. He just doesn't keep any of his weird thoughts to himself, and has no inclination to keep up a "professional" appearance. Thus, Georgie gets gremlin-Jon as her roommate. It's fine

-Georgie eventually meets Melanie, and they collaborate on a few projects regarding various supernatural topics. Because Jon is just THERE, he always winds up heckling Melanie about her "spooky show". While it is annoying to hear them argue, Georgie notices that Jon and Melanie ironically motivate each other when it comes to research

-Melanie invites/dares Jon to come with her on a few investigation trips. Spooky stuff keeps trying to kill Jon, he's like a magnet for this stuff, but also nothing ever manages to kill him. He and Melanie work together more, having this weird antagonistic-rivalry thing going on as they explore creepy areas, and film monsters trying to bite off Jon's head. Then they both go back to Georgie's apartment, where Jon cooks everybody dinner. This is actually sort of nice???

-Georgie and Jon eventually visit the Magnus Institute, for spooky reasons, and learn about the recently missing Archivist, while meeting the "temporary research team"; Martin, Tim, and Sasha. They're all a little unorganized, but willing to help answer questions if they can. Jon has ZERO hesitation or humility, just flat-out telling Elias he's weird, and also telling Martin "You look like the human personification of a classical painting of a sky full of clouds in soft morning light. Where's the bathroom?"

-Elias is silently losing his mind, because this rude little man is practically RADIOACTIVE with fear-marks, but Jon has no interest working here, and even if he did, Jon doesn't have the "qualifications" for being an Archivist (not that it really matters, but for the farce of legality, it would help). Martin is perpetually flustered, because he truly can't tell is Jon is flirting with him or not (to be fair, Jon isn't sure either. he's not gonna stop, though)

-Georgie comes along at some point to see the library, and Elias is BAFFLED by her; she has almost as many marks as Jon, but somehow feels "blank" when he tries to SEE what caused any of these fears (he doesn't understand she is incapable of feeling fear like that). Well, Georgie sure has the qualifications for the Archivist position! Elias offers her enough money for her to take the job, and as a bonus (for Elias... or so he thinks), Jon helps her record/catalogue various statements

-Georgie keeps being a wrench in the works. Nothing bad happens to Sasha. The very first day Martin doesn't come in for work, Georgie asks Jon to go check on him, he sees the worms, tells Georgie, who makes up a more believable lie to get some rescue people over there, and Jane Prentiss is dealt with right away. Martin doesn't get trapped in his apartment for days and days. Georgie saves everybody from the Circus shenanigans. It goes on like that. Occasionally, Elias will call somebody like Peter to try and scare people, but Georgie keeps fixing it, and Jon keeps being a fear-magnet who also won't die (Elias is most sincerely pissed-off)

-Also, because Martin's apartment still got all gross, Georgie and Jon invite him over to stay until he finds a new space. Martin still isn't sure if Jon is flirting with him, but he kinda likes being doted on... (at this point, yes, Jon approaching him with romantic intent. He doesn't change anything about his behavior, so to Martin, there is no difference. It might not be clear until Jon asks what Martin wants to do for their 6 month anniversary)

[beevean]

Rewriting Castlevania

To be more specific, Castlevania post-Season 2. The first few seasons shall serve as the launchpads from which to build upon and iron out the kinks for later stories.

I don’t have an exact vision of how rewritten versions of Season 3 and 4 (or Nocturne, but that isn’t the focus here), but I know, for starters, they could’ve used a more compact cast.

First: remove Trevor and Sypha. They may have been major protagonists in Seasons 1 and 2, but their story was over. Alucard, as well. His story was also done… for now (because he’s too iconic in the franchise as a whole not to bring back in a sequel series).

Next: they could’ve easily cut out Morana and Striga (whose names escaped my memory until I just looked them up) without substantially affecting anything in Carmilla’s whole story. Lenore can stay (maybe as the show’s equivalent to Laura), but she should not get a “redemption”. Instead, develop the idea of how weak others see her and how her devious intellect helps her overcome her perceived weakness. Write the woman a Starscream arc, even (“I am Lenore of Styria, and fuq you, Carmilla! I win!”), with mistress Carmilla as her Megatron! Give her lots of ambition!

For Isaac, I would love for his chat with that Captain to be preserved (I rewatched it recently and loved the vibe of it), but a couple other events in his journey need adjustments so that he doesn’t go through the “I had an nice talk with a human, so my mind about humanity is changing, but these guys are blocking me and I can’t reason with them, therefore I’m stupid for trying to be civil and hate humans again, now they die!” bit twice. With a little streamlining, his screentime in Season 3 could be devoted to building him up as a threat, and then set up Season 4 with his role as a co-antagonist (with Carmilla) to Hector fully set up when they reunite. No sanitizing “I’m going to live!” revelations here.

Then there’s Hector. I still think we didn’t need to see the immediate aftermath of his imprisonment. In this hypothetical rewritten story, I would suggest having a 1 or 2 year timeskip, so he’s been slaving away in Carmilla’s dungeon for quite a while, forced to build her an army with his Devil Forgemaster powers, and Lenore’s been keeping watch and giving him plenty of incentives not to betray the sisters. Maybe for his first appearance in this version of Season 3, he could have this intimidating reveal where it dramatically shows the scrawny boy from Season 2 has become a buff, scarred son of a gun, clearly having worked out a lot during his year(s)-long stay.

The story following the Castlevania 3 adaptation would not have to be a Curse of Darkness adaptation, but the pieces were in place to pass the main protagonist torch over to Hector anyway. By making Season 3 all about his eventual escape, and having Season 4 follow him on the run, eventually overcoming his oppressor (Carmilla) and former partner (Isaac), we have ourselves a cohesive story that blends everything it establishes into one, airtight package, rather than feeling like a convoluted animation anthology.

Also, maybe Saint Germain’s Infinite Corridor quest can be worked into Hector’s adventure to freedom in some kind of creative way, without Saint Germain having to sacrifice his morals or gain info from a shady 3rd (or 4th) party.

Reply: I like your ideas!

Hard agree on removing Trevor and Sypha because they are effectively done, and Morana and Striga because they add absolutely nothing of importance. Ellis said that he created the council to explain who ran the kingdom while Carmilla was in Wallachia, but Lenore could do the job herself.  I’m not sure about Alucard because his story is also over, but I do see the potential of him grappling with his grief, and fearing he might become like Dracula. It’s just, the way it was done was skull-crushingly boring, and for now I have no better ideas.

(btw yes, Carmilla and Lenore could be wives at this point lmao, their personalities are strong enough that it wouldn’t come off as The Lesbians For Brownie Points. Maybe Carmilla turned Lenore so she’s her dame and superior, and this would cause frustration in Lenore who feels like Carmilla sees her more as her pet than a lover... frustration that she channels on Hector, in some sort of cycle of abuse way :) I still like the idea of her falling in love with Hector, but it’s an unhealthy, possessive love typical of a vampire, that Hector doesn’t reciprocate or grows out of.)

For Isaac, I mentioned the other day that he could use as a springboard the realization that Dracula cast him away like a broken tool, and from there, his affirmation that he’s worth more than what Dracula told him. ... yes, this is still Hector’s arc, but whatever at this point. Absolutely, S3 should avoid that stupid pattern of “oh maybe humans aren’t so bad-- nvm y’all rude, die”. Maybe he avoids people instead of barging through cities, and makes his army from the corpses he finds in abandoned towns? But he still can’t avoid everyone, hence, the scene with the captain.

Mhh. Hector’s story spanning so long would also influence Isaac’s, and it feels like too much? If Isaac had one year of time to build an army, dude would lead a small country basically. He’s already OP af, even if we nerf him by making him weak in physical combat. Same with Carmilla, she would definitely do some damage in one year.

I’m torn. Hector’s story in S3 could be tweaked a bit by making it less fetishistic and still treating Hector like a person: as in, someone with goals and principles and was not hired as General only because he’s pretty, that Lenore has to whittle down to convince him to work for him (the idea that Hector cannot be physically forced to work and his master needs to earn his trust is actually really good for a conflict). The two should butt heads and have more intriguing conversations, make the job harder for Lenore, let’s see if she keeps with the diplomacy or gets frustrated and needs to resort to the ring (which only makes sense in the scenario where Hector is deemed too dangerous to be allowed to work freely, since its only shown function is to bequeath control of the Creatures). I actually jotted some ideas down, if you’re interested :P

(oh, and no rape. obviously. she really didn’t need to do that.)

And S4 can kind of stay the same, but with the difference that Hector trapping Lenore is a form of cruel mercy, he does not crawl back to her because he too realized he does not need to cling to people to earn love, and he actually leaves the castle, ready to explore the world (with the implication that he might meet the equivalent of Rosaly, but it’s not necessary)

To clarify, what is your idea of Hector’s story in S4? Does he flee from Isaac on the chase? Will he eventually fight him and Carmilla? Will he meet Rosaly in the finale, and in this timeline they stay together without Isaac interfering? (please say yes 🥺)

But yeah. I still think the prequels could have been adapted, but if we need Carmilla as a spanner in the works tweaking the timeline, this feels much better. Trevor and Sypha alone not bogging down screentime would solve so many issues with the rushed pace.

[tgammsideblog]

One thing i enjoyed about Jinx vs The Human World is Jinx as main antagonist.

She manages to be intimidating and entertaining as a villain. We don't see hestitate too much in her plans and she is still that petty character we saw her be in previous episodes.

What it is scary about her is how not only she makes things go back the way she uses to be during the Original Chairman rule, she comes off as a lot more authoritarian, sending her sobgoblins to intimidate and attack other ghosts.

I have talked about this before, that Jinx represents someone who is too stuck in "the old days" and she is pissed that she can't take out joy from others like she did with the Original Chairman. She can't abuse her power to hurt others the way she used to, an aspect with can find in some people in real life too.

Someone once compared Jinx to Ollie and how Ollie chooses to be open minded and decides to change his views about ghosthunting while Jinx refuses to let go her views of joy hunter and she is too obsessed with the Original Chairman. She never once seems to give Scratch's era a try and go out of her comfort zone or try to find a new purpose in the Ghost Society.

Another thing that is good about Jinx in this episode is that she is clever. She knew that Molly and Scratch would tried doing what they did last time in "Molly vs The Ghost World" and came up with a trap for Molly. She later used Molly as a joy battery for her sobgoblins to power them up and quickly picked up that Molly was faking being sad.

She also serves as a good opposing force for Scratch to make him realize that he isn't a good chairman. She was doing that in previous appearances. The main difference is that she takes advantage of his irresponsibility this time around.

In result Scratch is forced to face that, yes, he hasn't been a good leader and decides to give the role to someone else, whoever is the chairman robe chooses to be fit to role.

So not only she is an antagonist in the story, she has a thematic purpose for Scratch's arc as chairman in this season and representing someone who refuses to change and too stuck in her own ways.

In all, i think Jinx's role as antagonist in Jinx vs The Human World was pretty fun. Liza Koshy does a great job at making her sound funny and intimidating depending on the moment. I do like how she is tied to themes of change and leadership in this season too.

[thegooseoforegon]

Amazing Digital Circus Theory

Move over Film Theory, it is time for I, the amazing Goose of Oregon, to debut my first ever theory about something with my over the top analytical skills. (no hate towards Film Theory though. You guys are great!)

The Amazing Digital Circus is an in-universe TV show, with the main cast being trapped in it by the headsets they put on. And Jax is either a hacker hired to take it down from the inside, or hired by the ADC company to be the antagonist of the show.

To clear up the TV show theory, both Jax and Bubble (and arguably Caine) acknowledge people are watching the show. Jax points to the camera multiple times, sometimes even speaking directly to the audience, while Bubble (indirectly) acknowledges in episode 3 that kids watch this like a tv show. Yes, I know that's more of a reference to the real world, but it can swing both ways (just like me, if you catch my drift) also, they have a theme song, as seen in episode 1. Just like a kid's tv show!

Obviously Caine and Bubble are Ai assistants, higher level than a regular NPC. Meanwhile, NPCs act like monsters/sidekicks of the week, not having much motivation behind them, just being there to be there. The original main cast was also made up of AI bots, but that put the ADC company under fire from lawsuits and critics, cause let's be honest, generative AI sucks. The current main cast then unknowingly got transported into the Digital Circus by putting on those headsets, in a sort of Truman Show way.

Now for Jax

Jax has either one of two roles in this world. My first theory on him is that he's a hacker, hired by a rival company to take it down from the inside, trying to derail the show plots and get ratings down. Also be a bad role model for the children who are presumably watching the show. After a couple seasons of this, the show would be shut down, and the rest of the cast would either be released or killed.

The second theory about him is that Jax was hired by the ADC company to be an anagonist. The ADC company was under fire by critics for never having a consistent protagonist, like so many shows now adays, instead sticking to villains of the week like the Gloink queen, Gummigoo and his bandits (yes, I know he's not a villain from our viewpoint, but the show was setting him up to be a sort of sympathetic anti-villain), and The Fudge, to name, well, all of them.

Both of those theories about Jax explains why he has access to everybody's rooms, knows the camera placement, (Hacker abilities or admin access), and why he's such a dick to everybody.

Here's are the problems with this theory; Abstraction and the second part of Mildenhall Manor. We'll deal with the latter first.

The second part of Mildenhall Manor is what Pomni and Kinger went through, with the angel and hunter guy. My guess is that was meant to be either a subplot/plot B for the episode, while Ragatha, Jax, and Gangle where the main plot/plot A. (We got a view more heavily centered on Kinger and Pomni, of course.) Either that, or the show was punishing Zooble for not being compliant with what they want, or trying to help them (Zooble uses they/them prounouns, right?) feel more comfortable with the show. Probably the first one, but the second one could work.

Now for Abstraction. We all know what happens, so I'm not going over that. The question is, what happens to the IRL bodies after the ADC character abstracts? My guess is they go brain-dead and die, and the ADC company gets rid of them. I don't exactly know how they explain Abstraction in the show, but we'll have to just wait and see...

[veliseraptor]

Inspired by 'it's not love, it's obsession': what are your thoughts on the parallels between Luo Binghe and Xue Yang?

oooh this is a fascinating one.

One of my favorite things about looking at MXTX's books as a corpus of work taken together is the ways in which you can see her evolving as a writer. I don't necessarily mean stylistically (I don't feel like I can speak to that, since I can't read the original), or even necessarily narratively (though I do think TGCF is the strongest narratively, for all it's probably longer than it needs to be). What I really mean is how you can see her coming back to the same themes over and over and exploring them with variations and shades of difference. There are very clearly things that are MXTX Concerns, as it were, that she revisits and echoes and plays with in all of her works; questions about justice and the cycle of violence are one big one that I've thought a lot about personally.

And when you're looking at the three books together, there are places where you can draw throughlines - for instance, from Yi City > Black Water Arc, or from (arguably) Xiao Xingchen > Xie Lian. In light of the trivia that Yi City comes at least in part from an older, abandoned story MXTX worked on when she was younger (per an interview with her, I believe), I feel like you can draw the line from Xue Yang > Luo Binghe as far as some of the tropes being played with. Xue Yang is (in some ways) an echo of Luo Binghe is an echo of an older story that had a character who may or may not have been named Xue Yang.

In obvious ways Xue Yang takes a different position in the story he ends up in than Luo Binghe does in his (he ends up an antagonist), but while one could look at the Song Lan/Xue Yang/Xiao Xingchen trio and posit Xiao Xingchen and Song Lan as the intended pair of whatever original story they came from, that doesn't, in my eyes, fit with the other relationships MXTX chooses to write. Xue Yang lives at a nexus of a lot of the things MXTX pokes at with Luo Binghe and, yes, Wei Wuxian, but also (to a lesser degree) Hua Cheng - the legacy of childhood violence, the importance and weight of small kindnesses in changing a person, the probing at the idea of people as irredeemable or incapable of change (and finding it lacking).

He comes from a disadvantaged, marginalized background (as do the other two protagonists) and, despite perpetrating atrocious acts of violence (Wei Wuxian actually, Luo Binghe less so in SVSSS canon but explicitly so in PIDW, which is the way Shen Qingqiu relates to him initially), kind treatment from a single person having a deep impact on their behavior. There's also the quality of deep, obsessive devotion, notably beyond death, that Xue Yang shares with Luo Binghe, Lan Wangji, and Hua Cheng (portrayed in the latter two cases as clearly and explicitly romantic and to be valued). Xue Yang doesn't occupy a protagonist role in MDZS (obviously), but he has some of those thematic qualities that tend to pop up in MXTX protagonists and/or love interests.

(Hua Cheng might stand out here, and he is different, certainly, but I would point to the very, very early identification of him as inherently ill-fortuned and bad to be around. Xue Yang has TGCF echoes, I'd say, to a lesser extent in Hua Cheng than in Jun Wu, but I don't think the echoes are absent from Hua Cheng, either.).

This positions Xue Yang, potentially, as (if we're using a crude metaphor) a little bit the Luo Binghe to Xiao Xingchen's Shen Qingqiu, with Song Lan potentially occupying more of a Yue Qingyuan place (but of course that's just speculation and we'll probably never know).

This is a lot of tl;dr but I guess the main thing I'm thinking about here is that while it's I think shallow to describe Xue Yang as a proto-Luo Binghe (or rather, ur-Xue Yang from that older story as), I think it's fair to see that relationship between the two characters as part and parcel of MXTX's revisiting, revising, and reconsidering the same themes over and over again in her work - in the same way, I think, that within the same story Wei Wuxian's parallels with both Xue Yang illustrate that same impulse. (And not, to be clear, as a simple "this one good, this one bad" morality tale; what MXTX is doing with her parallels is, I daresay, more interesting than that.)

anyway, there you have it. I feel like this went maybe a little left of what you were asking (maybe you wanted me to talk about the actual parallels in terms of character?) but this is a sub-category of that subject I personally find very fun to think about.