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thedeadflag · 3 years ago

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I’m so confused! I know it’s not your responsibility to educate me but in your post bringing awareness to the negative aspects of g!p fanfic you say

“Why do these g!p characters rarely if ever involve experiences reflective of trans/intersex women? Why are they so utterly cis and perisex-washed? Why do nearly all writers have zero idea that tucking is a thing? “

Doesn’t that answer your original question? The reason they don’t reflect those groups of ppl is bc g!p isn’t trying to represent those groups of people or else it WOULD be transphobic to limit them to one specific fetish right? it just refers to a canonically female character with the addition of a penis (I don’t argue the name “g!p” should be changed bc that’s a no brainer why that could be offensive). But the fanfic in general, how could it be harmful? I’ve noticed in my time reading it as a non binary person it’s given me great gender euphoria reading a reader insert where reader has a penis while being a femme representing person just bc that’s a reflection of my personal experience. I don’t see anywhere where g!p fanfic ever references or tries to emulate the experiences of trans or intersex people so how could it be offensive?

Sorry this is way too long I’m just very confused

I'm going to try and lay this out as politely as I can. It's after 3:30 in the morning here, so this could be a bit disjointed and rambling. More under the cut:

In real life, ~99.999999% of women with penises are trans women. Which puts us in a tricky situation of (A) being the only women with penises around for media involving women with penises to reflect back on, and (B) being in the lovely position of precious few people actually having had meaningful real life exposure to trans women, meaning (C.) all those stigmas and all that misinformation are going to purely affect us and it’s going to be uncritically gobbled up by the masses, since they don’t have any meaningful information to fill in the blanks with instead.

When we peer into the depths of femslash fandoms and see all these folks who aren't trans women writing about women with penises, and using cis women’s bodies as platforms for these penises, it’s the simplest thing.

I mean, some of those folks might actually be struggling and confused about why they’re into it, what the real appeal is, why they get off on it, why they might have some feelings about wanting a penis of their own…

…but from our vantage point, it’s really easy to gauge 99.99% of the time. We can generally see valid, legitimate yearning to have a penis pretty damn easily in a piece of art/writing, and we can also see when people who create this media are just hung up on a boatload of baggage and fetishization.

And 99.9% of the time, the creators are just hung up on a boatload of baggage and fetishization, and see trans women’s bodies as a perfect vehicle to tap into that, generally due to deeply held cissexist views that link us and our bodies and genitals directly to cis men, to maleness. As if penises are rooted in maleness and masculinity (which is absolutely not true).

And I have sympathy for NB folks (certainly TME ones who have reached out to me in the past about this) who might be struggling with that, but just because they’re non-binary, it doesn’t mean they get to appropriate our bodies and reproduce transmisogyny and trans fetishization in their attempts at feeling better. Shit doesn't work like that.

Because again, the only women with penises in this world, essentially, are trans women. Meaning any woman with a penis in media is a trans woman, implicitly or explicitly. Meaning that when people who aren’t us want to write us, intent doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter if it’s just the writer’s fantasy, it’s still going to attach a variety of messages directly onto us.

And more often than not, due to cissexism, those messages are linking us to maleness, to toxic masculinity, etc..

While I do want to believe they're a fairly small minority, a lot of NB folks in fandom spaces like g!p characters in part because they see penises as male and the rest of the body as female and think that duality is interesting and would be comfortable, and is a nice balance of “both worlds” or a nice position “between male and female”, but that’s a wholly cissexist, transmisogynistic view to have, and it’s one that absolutely cannot be supported without directing sexual violence against trans women and invalidating our entire existence. Certainly not all NB folks into g!p like it for that reason, but holy shit a fair bit of them do and it’s weird and wrong and fetishistic.

g!p emerged from the idea that women can't have penises, and drew on the transmisogyny and cissexism of tr*nny porn to structure that frame of desire and the core patterns and trends within these works. It's always been trans women's bodies being used as a vehicle, whether or not the writers of these fics are explicitly aware of it, because the trope itself still holds true to its original patterns and cissexism. It's not the name that's the problem, it's the content; changing the name would be a surface level change that wouldn't affect anything.

g!p objectifies women with penises (trans women). A woman with a penis is more than just a woman with a penis, but the use of the term and trope is literally to (A) remind people that women don't have penises, otherwise the g!p term wouldn't be needed if people actually accepted women with penises as women, and that (B) this is a story centered on a scenario where there's a woman with a penis, with key focus on that genitalia specifically. it's the drawing point, it's the lure, it's what everything is centered on. It is a means for folks to write lesbian sex while also writing about penis in vagina and getting off to it. It's also no surprise that the penises so clearly emulate cis men's penises in these works, that is by design.

As I’ve said many times before, if you’re only writing trans women’s bodies to showcase cis men’s penises, you’re not respecting the womanhood of trans women, and this ultimately has nothing inherent to do with penis-owning women, it has to do with (cis) men and their penises, because trans women are just being used as a vehicle to emulate them. When NB folks do the same thing, and imagining themselves as those g!p characters, they are ultimately embodying cis men, their maleness, and often toxic masculinity, in a way that feels safe and distanced enough for them, a shell that they often code as cisnormative due to their own unprocessed cissexism.

And trans women don’t deserve that.

You seem caught in the idea that if something doesn't directly perfectly reflect trans women, that it can't be linked to us., which ignores the long long history of media being used to misrepresent marginalized peoples and cast us in insulting, dehumanizing lights. You show a lack of understanding of the g!p trope and the long history of its usage across a few other names, even if the content and patterns remained the same. It shows a lack of understanding of tr*nny porn and transmisogynistic stigmas, which the trope draws heavily from.

I think we can all recognize that most 'lesbian' prn that's made does not represent actual lesbians, it's overwhelmingly catered to the male gaze. We can also recognize that this category of porn has led to a lot of harassment towards lesbians from cis men who at the very least want to believe lesbians are just like they are in the porn he watches, that lesbians just need the right man. Lesbians are being used as a vehicle for a fantasy that was created externally to them, and doesn't represent their realities.

It's the same kind of situation here. The way g!p fics play out overwhelmingly doesn't reflect trans women's realities, but they are inherently linked to us regardless, as we're the vehicles for those fantasies, as unrealistic and harmful as they may be.

g!p characters are built in our fetishized image that’s based on a deeply cissexist misunderstanding of us, of the gender binary, and of bodies in general.

I mean, when 99% of cis folks don’t understand how trans women tend to be sexually intimate… when they don’t understand what dysphoria is and how it works and how it can affect us physically and emotionally…when they don’t understand almost any of our lived experiences…then they’re not going to be able to accurately portray us even if they wanted to.

And I’ve read enough g!p fics where authors wrote those as a means of trying to add trans rep, but because they didn’t understand us at all, it wasn’t remotely representative, and it was ultimately fetishistic, even if there was an undercurrent of sympathy and a lack of following certain common g!p patterns there that differentiated it from the norm.

If g!p fics were at all about reducing dysphoria or finding euphoria, then it wouldn’t be explicitly tied up in the performance of very specific sex acts, very specific forms of misogyny and toxic masculinity, very specific forms of sexual violence and exertion of sexual power, etc.

But it is.

So the notion that creating g!p fics helps NB folks? Nope. It CAN certainly prevent/delay those folks from facing a whole boatload of shit they’ve internalized, and coddle them at the expense of trans women.

Because if it was really about bodies and dysphoria/euphoria, there would be a considerable push (allying with out own) to end our fetishization and to represent us in and out of sexual contexts with accuracy, respect, and care. Because they wouldn’t care what sex acts were performed and what smut beats were hit, they’d just want to see someone with a body like their ideal being loved, being sexual, connecting, being authentic, etc. Which very much is not the case in the overwhelming majority of g!p fics. That's what we want, and it's not what g!p writers want, it's nothing they give a shit about.

Like, a ways back I started doing random pulls of g!p fics from various fandoms and assessing them for certain elements to provide some quantitative clarity. I started on The 100 here, and did OuaT here. Never finished the 100 one since the results leveled out and stayed pretty consistent as the sample size grew, so I didn't really see the point in continuing any further after about 140 fics when the data wasn't really changing much at all.

Lastly, media influences people. I've read countless posts and comments from people who use fanfiction as a sex ed guide, in essence. Which is ridiculous, but I also know sex ed curricula often isn't very accurate or extensive in a lot of areas, so people take what they can get. Representation in media can be powerful, and when it overwhelmingly misrepresents people, that's also powerful. Just because fandom is a bit smaller than televised media, it doesn't make that impact any lesser, certainly not for those whose primary media intake is within fandom.

Virtually all trans representation in f/f fanfiction is misrepresentative of us. That has a cost in how people understand us, how people react to us, and how people treat us. Not just online, but in physical spaces, and in intimate settings.

I invite you to read that post you referenced again, or perhaps this longer one which is a response to a trans guy who seemed to feel something similar to you with this trope.

All I can do is lay it out there and try to explain this. It's up to you how you handle this. All I know is whenever there's a big surge in g!p in a fandom, trans women generally leave it en masse, because it's a very clear and consistent message that we're not valued, respected, and that people value getting off on us over finding community with us.

#g!p #creative responsibility #trans fetishization #trans representation #intersex fetishization #intersex representation #genitals tw #genital mention tw #intersexism #transmisogyny #fandom meta #long post #cissexism #t slur tw #media representation #media literacy

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transmascjfk · 4 years ago

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i'm,, trans and hc chihiro to be a male..

i'm sorry, but i don't quite understand how that's transphobic. could you please explain how chihiro is transmisogynistic? (sorry if i come off as rude - that's not my intention and i genuinely just don't understand, though i would like to!!)

What is transmisoginy?

"Transmisogyny is a distinct category of transphobia in that transmisogyny mainly focuses on trans women and other transgender individuals who demonstrate femininity, whereas transphobia is a more general term, covering a broader spectrum of prejudice and discrimination towards transsexual and transgender individuals. Julia Serano states in Whipping Girl that "when the majority of jokes made at the expense of trans people center on 'men wearing dresses' or 'men who want their penises cut off' that is not transphobia – it is transmisogyny. When the majority of violence and sexual assaults committed against trans people is directed at trans women, that is not transphobia – it is transmisogyny." "

Chihiro is written to mock trans women, to say that in reality trans women are secretly men, she is a man who is weak and uses being trans as a way to escape her problems, this is a thing that is also said to trans men a lot, that theyre just trying to avoid the hard parts of being a woman by becoming a man. Even if the writters intended it to be like that or not (which they probably did because transphobia is a big thing that happens a lot, obviously) it's still transmisogynistic. Thats that on that

This is a pretty common transphobic trope actually, the "Turns out this one character was actually from the opposite sex??!!", theres more examples of this in other games outside Danganronpa.

But also her experience is pretty different from other examples, her experiences are way too similar with trans womens experiences.

This is mostly for the cis people who call her a crossdresser and refuse to change their mind, on it, sit down.

Written by a trans man.

Don't tell me whats transphobic and what it's not transphobic if you're cis. Just sit down and read.

Tw: transphobia, transmisoginy, death mentions and blood in the pictures.

The game implies a lot of stuff with her dialogue, it doesn't straight up says "I don't want to be a woman anymore, I'm a man" like everyone claims it does.

[ Alt text 1:

Chihiro Fujisaki: I'm going to get stronger...and accept who I am... ]

[ Alt text 2:

Chihiro Fujisaki: Strong enough so that when someone says "even thought you're a boy" I'll be okay. I'll get better! ]

[ Alt text 3:

Chihiro Fujisaki: I wrapped myself in lies. I'm weak. I want to destroy that version of me forever! ]

[ Alt text 4:

Chihiro Fujisaki: ... I want to change. ]

[ Alt text 5:

Chihiro Fujisaki: I have to change. I don't want to be weak anymore ]

She goes to Mondo not because hes masculine, but because she admires him and his strength. She never once says it's because shes a man or because Mondo is a man.

[ Alt text 1:

Chihiro Fujisaki: Maybe talking to Mondo about it will help give me some courage... ]

[ Alt text 2:

Chihiro Fujisaki: I admire... your strength... ]

These dialogues can be read in two ways, the first one being the one the game tries the hardest to put in your head thats shes a man, all of this guessed by other people btw not what she herself says. Which is really transphobic, because she was written as a trans woman and then theyre like "uh no actually hes a man, because he was born as one but hes a coward so he started to dress as a woman to hide from his problems. Because thats what people do right? People who dress as their oppossite gender are so pathetic, specially men amiright? Ahaha"

Reading it in this way really weird, you're doing a lot of mental gymnastics because you would literally call her a trans woman with all of this if the rest of the trial, that consists of cis people assuming shes a man, didn't happen. And sadly you're following transphobic ideas by this. Because the canon is transphobic and transmysoginistic.

And the other way is just read what she says, that she just wants to be stronger and stop lying to everyone, basically about being cis, because shes not, shes amab (assigned male at birth) and thats probably what she said to Mondo, but most people when a trans person who already passes or is in their transition comes out many people tend to think "oh so youre your gender assigned at birth and not the one you claim to be?", because they don't get what being trans is and they think only "biological gender" is a thing. Basically, misgendering and invalidating the trans person.

I can guess all of this just because of how vague they decided to make her dialogue, not even showing how she tells Mondo about being amab.

What did she said to Mondo? "I'm trans"? "I'm a man"? "I was born a man"? We dont know, because they didn't show it and she died right afterwards and then everyone was like "Chihiro was secretly a man" to solve the case and thats it. A lot of people in the discourse get their information from Monokuma who isn't either Chihiro or even Mondo. Monokuma knows many things but he can't read minds to know if she was really trans or not, only she could say it but she died so she couldn't explain if shes trans or not.

[ Alt text:

A youtube comment by Gail Frisbee, posted 4 days ago, this comment was edited by the autor. The comment says:

"It's honestly increible to me when people try to argue that a scene in which a female-presenting character gets their genitals groped and then is posthumously referred to as a male from that point on can't be transphobic just because that character calls themselves a boy in some other side content later. It's on about the same level of intellectual honesty as claiming that Quiet from MGS5 isn't really fanservice because she totally breaths throught her skin you guys.

As it turns out, if you really dig down deep into the lore, Chihiro is a fictional character and the same people who wrote the genital investigation scene also wrote the lines that character says in the game as well. It's a shocking twist, I know." ]

Her fears of being outed and people founding out her secret (being trans) or being transphobic is used as a gross big twist. A trans woman being used as a mockery of trans people? Great totally normal (/sarcasm)

Read this post made by a trans woman. I'll be using this only part but it's still a great read.

[ Alt text:

So. There is a lot to unpack here, but I want to start with something that specifically hurts me as a trans woman, and that's how the game flippantly uses real world horrors trans people face as shocking reveals and twists. You can go down the list for "worst nightmares" of trans people incluiding:

Threatening to be outed against your wishes

Outing yourself to a trusted friend and being met with rejection, or worse, violence

Having your body and privacy examined and invaded

Having your deadname used and being misgendered after death, when you can't correct them ]

Now, let's go to her backstory for a bit. I will be using the wiki for this. (Which sadly uses he/him for her 💔)

" When Chihiro was a child, he became the subject of harassment and bullying. He was always told to "be a man" and that he was "so weak despite being a boy", and because of that, Chihiro slowly but surely began to develop a "weakness complex". In order to escape the bullying, Chihiro began to dress as a girl so that people wouldn't bully him as a weak boy. "

This doesn't sound like a normal crossdresser, this sounds like a trans woman who was bullied for being different when she was younger, like many trans people, and then she decided to transition because she's a woman, she wanted to be more feminine and stop being seen as a person shes not. Specially after so many people tell her to basically man up when she doesn't want that, because shes not a man.

Have you ever heard of the classic stories of "since I was little i knew i was different, i was a boy who liked playing with dolls and was more feminine than the rest" or "i used to be a tomboy when i was little, i had mostly male friends, i liked playing with car toys and was more masculine than other kids" coming from trans people? This just sounds as these types of stories to me.

People also like to say that alter ego uses he/him pronouns and says shes a boy. Many trans people can misgender themselves for personal reasons too guys, she could've been trying to misgender herself because she didn't felt like she wasn't enough to be a real woman, this happens a lot to trans people. If people constantly tell you that you're not actually transgender or you just feel like you're faking it then you might actually believe it, thats were most "detransitioners" come from. And thats basically what they made her, a detransitioner.

Some of you might also don't get how shes trans because you think she doesn't perfect or exact trans stereotypes. Trans experiences can be similar on the feeling of not fitting in, dysphoria, etc. But trans experiences, stories, transitions and complete lifes can be very different, because we all (including cis people) live different lifes, experience, process and cope with things differently. So i can understand why you might not get her being trans coded at first, don't worry. But try instead of just not caring because you don't get it at the first try, to see what trans people say.

This whole discourse its mostly cis people talking over trans people about their own experiences (incluiding the dead trans coded characters experience) saying if theyre valid or not and denying stuff not wanting to learn anything, completely refusing to it because "In canon hes a boy" ok then in canon shes written in a transphobic way too but most of you don't care about that. You would rather call her a crossdresser than try to acknowledge how obviously trans coded she is and how thats used as transphobia.

The way most cis people act in this discourse is very transphobic to me to be honest, if you think you're a good ally but act like this then you should get more educated on the topic as a whole and about trans people too.

-the trans Chihiro flag to finish this up, she has a bit boobie! good for her! good for her.

#chihiro discourse #discourse #transphobia #transphobia cw #transphobia tw #chihiro fujisaki #if i forgot about something please tell me!!#trigger happy havoc

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janiedean · 4 years ago

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I have a feminist friend who hates radfems, but thinks they are a necessary evil to allow feminism to become the predominant in society. Like they are of the idea that sometimes you need violence and generalization (i.e. all men are rapists do not mean that all men are, but that it's predominant in a society that barely punishes rape, etc...) to push an idea forward. He compared this to Malcolm X in the fight for african-american rights in the US (We're european). What do you think?

with the premise that I slept very little and very badly tonight: I think he’s full of shit.

there is no such thing as necessary evil when it comes to social justice stuff within the same movement and honestly I’mma skip on the concept that malcolm x was a necessary evil because honestly that opinion is shit on a whole lot of levels I can’t go into and I don’t exactly feel comfortable to as a white person but I can say that there’s no fucking way that was a necessary evil. wtf.

other than that: violence and generalization is fucking stupid. if not all men are rapists then the goddamned point is that you have to go after the rapists and the fact that society barely punishes rape is another thing that honestly is arguable, the problem is how the laws are applied and the fact that ppl still think that you went looking for it if you were drunk at a party and that depending on who accuses/is accused things change (I mean did we all read to kill a mockingbird or what). not all men are rapists, not all men are violent, saying that 50% of the world is that makes no fucking sense and the ‘necessary evil’ radfems would bring is also a whole fucking shitload of ideas/’’ideologies’’ that are within themselves misogynistic as fuck and transphobic as fuck and honestly only work if you’re a ciswoman that has money and looks right because exfuckingscuse me but this entire men demonization thing basically boils down to ‘if you have a dick you’re bad™’ because you know that according to them being a man = biologically having a dick and I don’t think I have to go into how fucking wrong we are on that account and = being the cause of all evil in society, and if we add the whole ridiculous idea that straight women are brainwashed by the patriarchy, that motherhood is vital to a woman’s existence rhetoric that they have when it comes to y’know surrogate pregnancy and the likes, the whole what you like in bed is what the patriarchy wants you to like bc *spins the wheel* being a submissive woman is obviously not something you could possibly want means that:

they demonize transwomen and don’t recognize that they’re women

ignore that transmen exist

on that ^^ push a rhetoric that’s as a whole harmful to anyone who’s not cis and if they actually get listened to that can be fucking hurtful bc it’s misinformation and oh we’re in europe I’d like trans ppl to be covered by free healthcare which they sure af don’t want nevermind spounting anti-scientific bullshit with the BIOLOGY!! excuse

which also means that notciswomen are totally fucked if they need help or resources or whatever

ignore that sterile women exist or that you know some women don’t want children but while using that argument to shut down surrogacy they sound like your regular victorian dude who thought that women were walking wombs and excuse me if my fucking womanhood isn’t tied to whether my womb ever produces children or not

also that’s attached to that dumb myth of motherhood being sanctity that oh wait ignores that shit mothers exist

by being antikink and OH MEN ARE BAD YOU SHOULDN’T LIKE THEM BLAHBLAHBLAH and SUBMISSIVE WOMEN ARE BRAINWASHED BLAH BLAH they basically are the same exact type of person that wants to control women’s sexualities and sorry but after centuries of women’s sexuality having been controlled and repressed and whatever by society idt it’s very feminist that other women think they have a say in it dot

let’s also while we say this completely ignore the fact that y’know women who abuse other people (both men and women) and rape other people (both men and women) and are generally more of a patriarchy fan than you’d think because it’s convenient for them or because they have internalized misogyny exist but hey let’s not even touch that topic shall we that would be too much

do we wanna discuss political lesbians and the rampant biphobia in that circle and the rampant straightup misogyny of presuming to tell straight women the patriarchy brainwashed them into wanting to bang men

do we wanna discuss that it’s basically a fucking cult that just spews misogynistic rhetoric dressed as feminism? because that’s what it is

and sorry but where I come from activism doesn’t work when you give space and voice to extremists and cultists and taking them seriously and giving them a platform means that people listen to them and absorb that bullshit and then you end up like in the UK where if you’re trans and need the first psych evaluation the waiting list is five years like fuck’s sake I’m tired of people giving radfems space and they might call me an authoritarian for that but honestly I’d ban them for hatespeech and that’s all I have to say on the topic. also, if feminism is about women having equal rights, that is not the idea that radfems push. and I don’t want shit to do with a supposed feminism that excludes trans people, is only convenient for a small fraction of people and says exactly the same misogynistic bullshit feminists fought against since feminism existed as a concept.

they’re not a necessary evil they’re straight up evil and they need to not be listened to. the end.

#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #radfems for ts #transphobia for ts #misogyny for ts #i don't gaf anymore #rape cw #Anonymous #ask post

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thefudge · 4 years ago

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Just out of curiosity, did you read JK's essay? I don't support everything in it but many parts resonated with me. Not to mention the horrific online abuse hurled at her, especially the countless, countless "choke on my dick" phrases thrown at her which are so violently misogynistic, it left me with a deep seated feeling of not only discomfort but fear as well. Idk I guess I just felt safe sending this because your blog seems more open to discussion from the other side instead of instant cancel.

i’m glad you think so about this blog and i hope that remains the case.

i didn’t have a chance to read JK’s essay until today (my previous ask about her was written before that) but here are some very, very imperfect thoughts on it:

the essay confirmed my previous take that she has inoculated herself against certain outside arguments but it’s also made me wonder about JK’s understanding of gender and sex. She is very attached to “natal women” and calling all people who menstruate “women” because of “common experiences”, despite the fact that her beloved de Beauvoir, whom she quotes in the essay extensively, acknowledged that “woman” is a social construct. JK herself at one point complains about having to comply with the rules of femininity while growing up and how it made her want to stop being female, so what is the truth? She argues that young girls shouldn’t be thinking about transitioning just because they are made to hate their femaleness but that’s!!! exactly what!!! pushing the term “woman” as sacrosanct does to girls!!! most of what JK felt in her childhood was the kind of misogyny which connects women strictly to their uterus. it made being male a better alternative precisely because of the gate-keeping of penis/vagina. a young girl who acted like a tomboy, for instance, would be criticized for trying to deny her sex, because deep down her biology still made her a “woman”. both sex and gender cannot be divorced from socio-cultural realities, because we act with our bodies and embody what we act. so, if we expand what it means to be a “man” and a “woman”, we liberate, not confine. JK wants young people to feel free to be whoever they want to be, but they must be called “women” when discussing menstruation or else (i won’t even go into the obvious addition that many cis and trans women exist who cannot or no longer menstruate).

Now, she does bring up some fair points about cancel culture and freedom of expression that I will level with, but the problem is that the nuancing she is trying to achieve also serves as weirdly specific dog-whistling. So let me address that:

(warning: spoilers for the Cormoran Strike series)

Right off the bat, we have this explanation added in her intro:

“On one level, my interest in this issue has been professional, because I’m writing a crime series, set in the present day, and my fictional female detective is of an age to be interested in, and affected by, these issues herself (...)”

and already, i’m asking questions. how is Robin Ellacott, one of the protagonists of the Strike series, “affected" by these issues, personally? she’s “of an age” to...what? be gender critical? there’s not a lot of that in the novels (unless you count Robin being tall and knowing how to drive well being framed as anti-girly...). How does crime relate to it? How is she connected to this really?

the real connection JK wants us to see because she’ll reveal it later in the essay is that Robin was r*ped in college. she’s a sexual assault survivor, which must make her critically engaged with the fate of trans women because....because underneath JK’s empty statement about her female detective....is the correlation that men “disguised” as trans women can perpetrate the same sort of horrific abuse. she keeps making this correlation throughout the essay.

Here she talks about various people who’ve reached out to her:

They’re worried about the dangers to young people, gay people and about the erosion of women’s and girl’s rights. Above all, they’re worried about a climate of fear that serves nobody – least of all trans youth – well.

And again here:

“So I want trans women to be safe. At the same time, I do not want to make natal girls and women less safe. When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman – and, as I’ve said, gender confirmation certificates may now be granted without any need for surgery or hormones – then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside. That is the simple truth.”

This one is my favorite because it’s so twisted (here she’s listing her charity work):

“The second reason is that I’m an ex-teacher and the founder of a children’s charity, which gives me an interest in both education and safeguarding. Like many others, I have deep concerns about the effect the trans rights movement is having on both.”

“safeguarding”

hmmmm

What JK wants to spell out with these “common sense” arguments is that she fears that trans women are predatory, and the most convincing argument she can bring, ultimately, is that she herself has been the victim of sexual abuse and therefore, that potential fear never goes away. That’s a very dangerous leap to make. The climate of “fear” she mentions is also connected to cancel culture, of course. She fears women won’t be able to express their opinions online without receiving various amounts of vitriol. But you see how she has merged all three issues together? So that if you agree with one, you must agree with the others. Because yes, cancel culture often goes too far, and yes it is a real issue, but to say that the trans community shutting her down foments the same atmosphere of “fear” as boogie trans women hurting children in bathrooms and her being abused by her cis husband… that’s a veeery slippery slope. Instead of sticking to “freedom of speech” and whatnot, she keeps correlating these issues that should not be correlated (some of them being false issues, as well).

Is there too much opprobrium around discussions of trans identity? Yes. Are there worthy discussions to be had about young women, homophobia and gender dysphoria? Absolutely. Can being trans become a fashionable trend/identity among kids, like the bygone goth and emo labels? Sure, but these discussions shouldn’t be had at the expense of trans people who have to constantly prove that they “mean” it. Because by stringing up all these issues together, JK is saying “the kids don’t know any better, and the adults are faking it”. Yes, cancel culture is impeding dialogue, yes, we shouldn’t shy away from discussing young teens’ identity problems, but if you pile up all of these things in a giant “trans women are the problem and they might be predatory too” milkshake, you won’t get anywhere.

I want to come back to this quote:

The second reason is that I’m an ex-teacher and the founder of a children’s charity, which gives me an interest in both education and safeguarding. Like many others, I have deep concerns about the effect the trans rights movement is having on both.

Beyond the (in my opinion) not very tasteful enumeration of things she’s done to help, JK’s mention of “education” there is veeery interesting. On the one hand, she probably feels that schools will try to censor “free speech”, but on the other hand, I bet she’s also concerned schools will not do enough censoring, so that impressionable kids become pressured into adopting a trans identity. You see how it flips on a dime? What does she ultimately want children to learn about this? Does she want them to be kept in the dark completely? Does she want them to be allowed to critique or invalidate trans identities without being censored? On this second point, things get complicated. Schools and institutions will naturally censor free speech. Kids are there to learn how to express that free speech; they will be told “hey, don’t say that to your colleague, it’s not very kind” or “you need to structure your argument appropriately instead of just saying “I don’t like it””. Is there room for criticism in how schools operate that benevolent censorship? Obviously. Hell, Foucault & co. have been talking about this for decades. So what does this argument about education ultimately mean? What are we protecting the kids from? Imo, it goes back to that covert argument about sexual violence.

Since I’m a teacher too, I’ll talk about my own experience: I brought some texts to my undergrad class about the trans experience with the goal of 1) building empathy, because literature is the grand unifier of experience and 2) showing different literary perspectives which i also included within literary theory. ultimately, the trans experience is about being human. we were learning about being human, nothing more, nothing less. if younger kids end up treating it as a fad it means that a) they need more, not less education, b) parents and schools should work together to make them understand that being trans is not the same as being “emo”, for instance. this partially resembles the trend of white kids adopting black culture just because it’s cool, but not actually engaging with the black experience. who do you sanction for this? black people? because in this analogy, the trans community should be responsible for children not benefiting from education and parental support.

oh, I know what JK is saying. the trans community is responsible for shutting down conversations about this. it’s part of the general climate of tiptoeing around trans issues. yes, here I can agree with her that Twitter discourse either helps build sympathy or loathing for the “cancelled” person instead of seriously grappling with what that person has done. it’s the nature of Twitter and I hate it, but to go from that to saying women and young girls are in danger from other “fake” women really undermines her own argument. There are normal pitfalls as we try to incrementally do some good in this world. Cancel culture and the deplatforming and ruining of lives of certain individuals will not promote the cause and is certainly to be frowned upon, but JK will be absolutely fine. there are hashtags right now like “istandwithJK” and there’s a slew of people who support her. the misogyny she faces is deplorable, but we shouldn’t conflate valid criticism with trollish vulgarities. I don’t want to minimize the dangers of online culture; I know people have lost jobs and livelihood, but that is a discussion to be had under different parameters, admitting the responsibility of both parties (for example, maya forstater realizing that maybe saying some hurtful things about public figures and proudly talking about the “delusion” of transwomen will come back to bite her in the ass) and the fact that under capitalism, your job is always at the whim of appearances and simulacrums. essentially, you are the job. this is a state of things that deserves a larger discussion not on the back of the trans community. should we live in a world where you are allowed to say anything, free of consequences? some of us do, because we can say whatever we want in our head, in our room, in our house (other ppl aren’t so lucky), but the trouble starts in the public sphere. even if we wanted to build a public sphere where everything goes, we’d be at each other’s throats in five seconds anyway because we’re human. the most we can do is educate and correct where we can. “facts don’t care about your feelings” discourse is often not informed by facts at all and forgets the vital importance of feelings.

anyway, that’s my incomplete take. still lots to think about and debate. ultimately, i think any fair points JK brought up were tainted by other bad-faith arguments and i wish she’d use this time to self-reflect because this isn’t a topic that should be breezed past in 3k words. nor should young trans ppl be called “adorable” (facepalm). i myself have many questions and constantly grapple with all of this, but since she’s a writer (and for better or worse, i still like her books), she is in a perfect position to investigate the matter with kindness and stop giving ultimatums. and i hope this post fosters discussion and doesn’t shut anyone down.

( forgot to mention that other nifty subplot in the Strike series about these really unlikable kids who are transabled and experience BID ( Body integrity dysphoria) and want to have a disability. Strike is super-offended by them since he’s genuinely disabled and we as readers are meant to think they’re real pieces of shit, and while transableism is suuuuper complicated and my thoughts on it vary wildly, i do think those BID kids also stand in for other folks in her mind..again, food for thought.)

#jk rowling #j.k. rowling #tw transphobia #replies #tw r*pe

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itsclydebitches · 5 years ago

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Just browsing the RWBY reddit. Seeing your post about Oz on there. The usual backlash against you and the idea that RWBY owe Oz an apology. Honest question. Is it just that their probably teenagers? Not experienced with nuanced storytelling? Think lying is always a bad thing to? It's obvious RWBY are not fully in the right. What fan wouldn't see that aside from just young people? I hate this fuck adults mindset in the fandom. Cordovin should have put them in jail at the end.

All fandoms have a very wide range of ages, RWBY included, so I doubt it’s as simple as assuming they’re all teens. Rather, I can think of a number of different factors, any one (or multiple at a time) that might be at play:

They are in fact teens who identify very strongly with the main cast, to the point where a “screw adults” rhetoric is not just appealing but very logical from their perspective. In the same vein, you have people of any age who have very straight-forward moral views: lying is bad and Ozpin had no right to do it. Period. The problem with this is less the actual belief and more the hypocrisy, as usually the mindset conveniently doesn’t apply to the person’s favorite characters---more on that below.

They’re fans, young or old, who haven’t been trained in/practiced much media analysis. Ozpin’s situation is a complicated one, requiring that fans recall, understand, and are willing to interrogate a HUGE number of details since roughly Volume Two. A lot of the hatred for Ozpin I see here on tumblr is rooted in really simplified “analysis.” e.g. people honestly asking, “How can you root for him when he got Pyrrha killed??” without understanding (or being willing to accept) that “got Pyrrha killed” is a flawed statement on multiple levels.

Connected to the above, fans who are really active in the fandom all year round and become immersed in theories, headcanons, and the like until they feel like canon. We only get RWBY content for a few weeks out of the year. The rest of the time fans are circulating various perspectives, often biased depending on who you follow. So there’s very little material demonstrating Ozpin’s complex nature vs. a great deal of material (fic, fanart, metas, personal posts about how much you hate characters, etc.) painting him as simplistically evil. That’s then the mindset fans are in when the next volume comes along and it’s rather difficult to break. What do you mean he’s a flawed good guy? I’ve been reading Ozpin hate for nine months out of the year.

Fans who are invested in their faves and have no desire to grapple with their more loaded mistakes. Yang is a good example of this, given that she’s one of the most beloved characters while also having a range of flaws. Some flaws---like snapping at someone in frustration---are easy to deal with because we know how close the group is, we know how this show functions, and we know she’ll be forgiven within a very short period of time, if anything as deep as “forgiveness” is even needed. We shrug and move on. More loaded flaws though---like her treatment of Ozpin---require fans to balance a love of the character with a critique of their actions, which a lot of people simply aren’t interested in doing. Acknowledging the ways in which Ozpin might have been in the right and the ways in which the group might have been in the wrong requires that they take a number of faves out of that “cinnamon roll too good for this world, too pure, can do no wrong” category. Few fans want to acknowledge that maybe their perfect Ruby shouldn’t have ripped secrets from a mentor. Or perfect Yang wasn’t justified in her manipulative bird anger. Or perfect Weiss shouldn’t be drawing her weapon on Qrow. Or perfect Pyrrha made a horrendous mistake by going after Cinder, etc. For all the people who claim they want flawed characters, fandom is filled with fans who fall in love with characters and then will simply not hear a word against them, not unless (like that snapping example) their flaws are incredibly easy to get past. They want, “My fave is flawed because she yells sometimes but she’s improving!” not, “My fave is flawed because she bought into the rhetoric of a murderous bandit and has been using that to undermine the team’s trust in their leader for weeks now.”

Connected to the above are fans who are neutral or iffy about Ozpin and thus have a “one strike and you’re out” policy that, notably, doesn’t extend to any other character. You lied? That’s it. We’re done. I was on the fence before but this proves you’re not worth investing in. When others point out that a LOT of our cast has either kept information quiet, manipulated how information is presented, or straight up also lied, they’re exonerated because the fan already likes them. They are invested in keeping them looking pure next to Ozpin’s impurity. And they just keep adding justifications indefinitely. Yang is allowed to keep the Spring Maiden quiet because of trauma with her mom. Oh, Ozpin has trauma too? Well he’s a thousand years old so he should have gotten over it by now. Oh, trauma doesn’t work that way? Well... and on and on.

Fans who believed Ozpin was an evil mastermind for six years and have been waiting impatiently for the day when his duplicity is finally revealed and they can celebrate being one of the ones who weren’t duped. “The Lost Fable” once and for all debunked that theory. Ozpin is a flawed man trying to do good, a subversion of the puppet-master archetype. It’s hard to say, “Damn. Guess I was wrong about his character,” especially after years of investment in his supposed immorality. So they just don’t. They tweak the new information and find ways to explain how he’s still actually, truly evil. It’s just even more horrendous because it’s subtle and sneaky and kinda hard to notice because it looks like he’s a good man most of the time, but I swear to you he’s not...

Fans who are attempting to be socially conscious but haven’t gotten the intricacies of that down just yet. Meaning, there are a lot of RWBY fans here on tumblr and tumblr has always been a site that heavily merges social justice with fandom. You read a RWBY post on your dash, then a post about white privilege; more RWBY, post about domestic violence, etc. Generally speaking that’s great (I’m all for learning in low-stakes environments), but that can also create very simplistic views, particularly for those who are young or who are just learning about such issues. Ozpin (Remnant geography and reincarnations aside) appears white. He’s a man. As far as we know he’s cis. He’s doesn’t seem to need his cane outside fighting and is therefore not disabled. He’s in a very significant position of power. He is, in short, everything “bad” that tumblr fans learn to spot in the real world. Ozpin, in that real world context, has a lot privilege and people automatically conflate that with being an aggressor. The villain. We’re living in a society where white guys are raping women and continually getting away with it. Now here’s this white guy preying on Pyrrha! (Again, no close analysis.) The merging of fandom with real world issues makes it very difficult for some people to view Ozpin with any sympathy, particularly when they only have a narrow understanding of these issues. Ozpin a victim of domestic abuse? Pff, that doesn’t happen. The man always abuses the woman. He can’t possibly be the victim here, so by default he must be the villain who tried to steal Salem’s kids away---because we all know that kids are always better off with the mother. That’s just natural. (You can see then how a lot of outdated assumptions color our readings of fictional characters.)

Straight up trolls. Some people don’t actually care about RWBY. They just enjoy antagonizing others about their views of the show. Or just insulting people for... reasons? It’s not about any investment in the debate. It’s about the rush they feel typing out a curse-laden post about how wrong you are and how much you suck. Are they actually wrong? It doesn’t matter. Saying you’re wrong makes the poster feel right and therefore powerful.

#rwby #rape tw #mymetas #long post #Anonymous

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terfslying · 6 years ago

Text

Extremist Traits & TERFs

The traits are taken from (here), which is a list of extremist traits by Laird Wilcox. Most examples are from interactions with people on this blog, because I’ve got to limit myself to something.

Character Assassination

“Extremists often attack the character of an opponent rather than deal with the facts or issues raised. They will question motives, qualifications, past associations, alleged values, personality, looks, mental health, and so on as a diversion from the issues under consideration”

TERF Examples: Character attacks on Susie Green, of Mermaids UK, to attempt to imply that her motive for Mermaids UK is to force her own child to transition. & Claiming Mermaids UK was a significant part of forcing a young UK child to be trans, when in fact he was being abused by his mother and Mermaids UK only ever were contacted by phone by the mother, and were not otherwise involved in any way.

Name-Calling and Labelling

“Extremists are quick to resort to epithets (racist, subversive, pervert, hate monger, nut, crackpot, […] and so on) to label and condemn opponents in order to divert attention from their arguments and to discourage others from hearing them out. These epithets don’t have to be proved to be effective; the mere fact they have been said is often enough”

TERF Examples: "pedophile apologist”, “infertile, fat white loser”, “rapist” (all directed at me!)

Irresponsible Sweeping Generalisations

“Extremists tend to make sweeping claims or judgements on little or no evidence, and they have a tendency to confuse similarity with sameness […] they assume that because two (or more) things, events, or persons are alike in some respects, they must be alike in most respects.”

TERF Examples: “trans women are just men”; use of crimes by cis men to attempt to demonstrate trans criminality

Inadequate Proof For Assertions

“Extremists tend to be very fuzzy about what constitutes proofs, and they also tend to get caught up in logical fallacies […] they tend to project wished-for conclusions and to exaggerate the significance of information that confirms their beliefs while derogating or ignoring information that contradicts them.”

TERF Examples: “This research is reliable because I agree with it, and I don’t care that the authors have deliberately published politically motivated anti-gay propaganda studies before”

Advocacy of Double Standards

“Extremists generally tend to judge themselves or their interest groups in terms of their intentions, which they tend to view very generously, and others by their acts, which they tend to view very critically. They would like you accept their assertions on faith, but they demand proof of yours. They tend to engage in special pleading on behalf of themselves or their interests, usually because of some alleged special status, past circumstances, or present disadvantage.”

TERF Example: Refusal to criticise WoLF + Julia Beck’s association with the Heritage Foundation due to presumed good intentions

Tendency to View Their Opponents and Critics As Essentially Evil

“To the extremist, opponents hold opposing positions because they are bad people […] not merely because they simply disagree, see the matter differently, have competing interests, or are perhaps even mistaken.”

TERF Example: I deserve to “rot in hell” because I don’t agree with TERFs

Manichaean Worldview

“Extremists have a tendency to see the world in terms of absolutes of good and evil, for them or against them, with no middle ground or intermediate positions. All issues are ultimately moral issues of right and wrong, with the ‘right’ position coinciding with their interests.”

TERF Example: Willingness to use and spread sources from the alt-right with no regard for the source, since if it coincides with their interest, it’s ‘right’

Advocacy Of Censorship or Repression of Their Opponents or Critics

“They may include a very active campaign to keep opponents from media access [… or] actually lobby for legislation against speaking, writing, teaching, or instructive ‘subversive’ or forbidden information or opinions.”

TERF Example: Pressure to isolate young trans teens from media access

Tend to Identify Themselves In Terms Of Who Their Enemies Are

“[E]xtremists may become emotionally bound to their opponents, who are often competing extremists themselves. Because they tend to view their enemies as evil and powerful, they tend, perhaps subconsciously, to emulate them, adopting to same tactics to a certain degree.”

TERF Example: "TRA’s”, “libfems”, “transcult”; emulating anti-feminist tactics by joining groups like Hands Across The Aisle to directly partner with anti-abortion, anti-feminist conservatives and divide-and-conquer

Tendency towards argument by intimidation

“Extremists tend to frame their arguments in such a way as to intimidate others into accepting their premises and conclusions. […] They use a lot of moralising, pontificating, and tend to be very judgemental. This shrill, harsh rhetorical style allows them to keep their opponents and critics on the defensive, cuts off troublesome lines of argument, and allows them to define the perimeters of debate.”

TERF Example: Using the words “trans women” and “literal pedophiles and rapists” interchangeably in arguments

Use of Slogans, Buzzwords, and Thought-Stopping Cliches

“For many extremists, shortcuts in thinking and in reasoning matters out seem to be necessary in order to avoid or evade awareness of troublesome facts and compelling counter-arguments. Extremists generally behave in ways that reinforce their prejudices and alter their own consciousness in a manner that bolsters their false confidence and sense of self-righteousness.”

TERF Examples: “Peak trans”, “autogynephiles”, the bathroom & prison rapist tropes, to discredit trans women; “handmaids” and “libfems” to discredit cis women who disagree with them

Assumption of Moral or Other Superiority over Others

“Most obvious would be claims of general racial or ethnic superiority […] Less obvious are claims of ennoblement because of alleged victimhood,”

TERF Examples: Expanding real victimisation of women to include historically inaccurate concepts, such as ‘witch hunts were methods of controlling women’s knowledge’ to increase superiority; complete disownment of any moral responsibility for violence perpetrated or encouraged by TERFs

Doomsday Thinking

“Extremists often predict dire or catastrophic consequences from a situation or from failure to follow a specific course, and they tend to exhibit a kind of ‘crisis-mindedness’. It can be a Communist takeover, a Nazi revival, nuclear war, earthquakes (… etc. …) Whatever it is, it’s just around the corner unless we follow their program and listen to the special insight and wisdom, to which only the truly enlightened have access.”

TERF Example: Fair Play For Women’s unrealistic theory that if Gender Recognition Certificates were easier to get, women’s prisons would be flooded with trans sex offenders instantly.

Belief that it’s okay to do bad things in service of a good cause

“Extremists may deliberately lie, distort, misquote, slander, defame, or libel their opponents or critics, engage in censorship or repression, or undertake violence in “special cases”.”

TERF Example: Wetmeadow ‘distorting’ my post on the cotton ceiling to imply that I was saying same-sex attraction is a mental illness, to discredit me.

Emphasis on Emotional Response (and less on logical analysis and reasoning)

“Extremist have an unspoken reverence for propaganda, which they may call ‘education’ or ‘consciousness-raising’. Symbolism plays an exaggerated role in their thinking and they tend to think imprecisely and metamorphically.”

TERF Example: ‘consciousness-raising’ has a long history in extreme radfem spaces; in recent online spaces it’s more often called ‘peak trans’.

Hypersensitivity and Vigilance

“Extremists perceive hostile innuendo in even casual comments; imagine rejection and antagonism concealed in honest disagreement and dissent; […] Although few extremists are clinically paranoid, many of them adopt a paranoid style with its attendant hostility and distrust.”

TERF Example: Exposinglesphob’s entire blog

Problems Tolerating Ambiguity and Uncertainty

“[T]he ideologies and belief systems to which extremists tend to attach themselves often represent grasping for certainty in an uncertain world, or an attempt to achieve absolute security in an environment that is naturally unpredictable […] Extremists exhibit a kind of risk-aversiveness that compels them to engage in controlling and manipulative behaviour, both on a personal level and in a political context.”

TERF Example: “What do you mean, someone’s gender or sex might be ambiguous?? Woman is a biological term for adult human females, it’s simple”

Inclination towards “GroupThink”

“‘Groupthink’ involves a tendency to conform to group norms and to preserve solidarity and concurrence at the expense of distorting members’ observations of facts, conflicting evidence, and disquieting observations [… Extremists may] only talk with one another, read material that reflects their own views, and can be almost phobic about the ‘propaganda’ of the ‘other side’. The result is a deterioration in reality-testing, rationality, and moral judgement.”

TERF Example: Any source I give is bad, even if they’re genuinely trying to say that wikipedia is ‘good research’.

Tendency to Personalise Hostility

“Extremists often wish for the personal bad fortune of their ‘enemies’ and celebrate when it occurs.”

TERF Example: The fact that pretty much every person who isn’t a TERF and who discourses has been told to kill themselves.

Extremists often feel that the system is no good unless they win

“If public opinion turns against them, it was because of ‘brainwashing’. If their followers become disillusioned, it’s because of ‘sabotage’.”

TERF Example: Ex-terfs like myself either are just too dumb to understand radical feminism, or we never even existed in the first place.

#long post #the longest of posts #terfs n fascists #terfs behaving badly tag #tag for sources

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harrypotterfirsttime · 4 years ago

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JK Rowling’s essay about why she’s a TERF: Abbreviated

My last post was LONG, much longer than I’d intended, and difficult to read on tumblr I’m sure (if anybody would like it sent as a pdf please let me know). So I’m making a shorter post and only including the paragraphs that I responded to with links to a source, for people who are more interested in the places where JK Rowling provably lied in her essay.

“For people who don’t know: last December I tweeted my support for Maya Forstater, a tax specialist who’d lost her job for what were deemed ‘transphobic’ tweets. She took her case to an employment tribunal, asking the judge to rule on whether a philosophical belief that sex is determined by biology is protected in law. Judge Tayler ruled that it wasn’t.”

First of all, Maya didn’t lose her job. Her contract was simply not renewed by her workplace, something that she was not entitled to under any law. JK Rowling also continues to falsely assert that Maya’s belief was that ‘sex is determined biology’, when she actually asserted that under no circumstances is a trans woman a woman nor a trans man a man, and the judge ruled that it did not fit all five necessary limbs to be a philosophical belief (it actually only failed the last one). The judge ruled that the ‘under no circumstances’ part of her assertion was absolutist, and that is what ultimately failed the fifth limb. [source]

“All the time I’ve been researching and learning, accusations and threats from trans activists have been bubbling in my Twitter timeline. This was initially triggered by a ‘like’. When I started taking an interest in gender identity and transgender matters, I began screenshotting comments that interested me, as a way of reminding myself what I might want to research later. On one occasion, I absent-mindedly ‘liked’ instead of screenshotting. That single ‘like’ was deemed evidence of wrongthink, and a persistent low level of harassment began.”

First off, this goes against the statement a spokesperson made for her when this happened, stating that she had a ‘clumsy middle-aged moment’ and liked the tweet by ‘holding her phone incorrectly’. The tweet she liked also had no content that she could research, it was a baseless claim that men in dresses get more solidarity than cis women (which I won’t even dive into, we have so much more to cover). [source] I also won’t dive into the use of ‘wrongthink’ as if we are all characters in George Orwell’s 1984, simply because nobody is controlling her speech, she is simply facing consequences for the shit she chooses to fling at the wall.

“I mention all this only to explain that I knew perfectly well what was going to happen when I supported Maya. I must have been on my fourth or fifth cancellation by then. I expected the threats of violence, to be told I was literally killing trans people with my hate, to be called cunt and bitch and, of course, for my books to be burned, although one particularly abusive man told me he’d composted them.”

Can we salute the man who decided to tell JK Rowling that he composted her books, because that’s absolutely hilarious. But really, I just want to point out that no matter how many threats of violence JK Rowling thinks she is getting, transgender people are subjected to much more abuse both online and in real life, and it affects their wellbeing much more directly than simply being called a cunt or a bitch on twitter. [source] While JK Rowling thankfully isn’t killing trans people, she’s disappointing so many of her LGBT+ fans who looked up to her and found comfort during their childhood in her books that encouraged people to be brave and be themselves.

“What I didn’t expect in the aftermath of my cancellation was the avalanche of emails and letters that came showering down upon me, the overwhelming majority of which were positive, grateful and supportive. They came from a cross-section of kind, empathetic and intelligent people, some of them working in fields dealing with gender dysphoria and trans people, who’re all deeply concerned about the way a socio-political concept is influencing politics, medical practice and safeguarding. They’re worried about the dangers to young people, gay people and about the erosion of women’s and girl’s rights. Above all, they’re worried about a climate of fear that serves nobody – least of all trans youth – well.”

I’ll tackle this paragraph from top to bottom. Firstly, the reason you believe the overwhemling majority of people supported you is because many of those who don’t (myself included, until now) simply rolled their eyes and ignored you, because you are not worth our time. We have lives to live that are unconcerned with your bigotry. Second, I hope those people who were working in fields dealing with gender dysphoria and trans people have since left their jobs, because they have no business serving a community who they secretly harbour unsupportive ideologies about. And finally, the idea of supporting and helping trans people (specifically trans youth) is DANGEROUS to young people, gay people, and women’s and girls’ rights is simply false. No women’s rights have been repealed in favour of trans people’s rights (mainly because trans women continue to shockingly be women). In fact, trans youth with parents who are very supportive and affirming show a statistically significantly lower rate of both depressive symptoms and suicide attempts. [source] [specific graph]

“If you didn’t already know – and why should you? – ‘TERF’ is an acronym coined by trans activists, which stands for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. In practice, a huge and diverse cross-section of women are currently being called TERFs and the vast majority have never been radical feminists. Examples of so-called TERFs range from the mother of a gay child who was afraid their child wanted to transition to escape homophobic bullying, to a hitherto totally unfeminist older lady who’s vowed never to visit Marks & Spencer again because they’re allowing any man who says they identify as a woman into the women’s changing rooms. Ironically, radical feminists aren’t even trans-exclusionary – they include trans men in their feminism, because they were born women.”

The first two sentences in this paragraph are true. Viv Smythe, a trans inclusive cis radfem, is credited with coining the term TERF to describe her fellow radical feminists who are ‘unwilling to recognize trans women as sisters’. It has also become widely used to describe feminists who exclude trans women from their feminism, even if they are not radfems. [source] I don’t care about who has been called a TERF, all I need to know is that they are transphobes, which they should feel equally disgusted at the fact their behaviour warrants the label. Trans men do not want to be included in radical feminism because we were ‘born women’, and JK Rowling including this as if it is an excuse is appalling. Trans men are not women, therefore we do not appreciate radfems claiming to support us based on their obsession with what genitals we were born with.

“The fourth is where things start to get truly personal. I’m concerned about the huge explosion in young women wishing to transition and also about the increasing numbers who seem to be detransitioning (returning to their original sex), because they regret taking steps that have, in some cases, altered their bodies irrevocably, and taken away their fertility. Some say they decided to transition after realising they were same-sex attracted, and that transitioning was partly driven by homophobia, either in society or in their families.”

There is a lot to unpack in this paragraph. And I don’t have the room in this already much too long post to dive into detransitioning, so I’ll say this: it sucks that some people transition only to realize they shouldn’t have. But these people are a staggering minority of people who do transition, and there is no external person they can blame for believing them when they relay their symptoms (as doctors are supposed to do) and acting accordingly, with the patient’s consent. The issues I have here are the language JK Rowling uses to say young women are transitioning, purposefully misgendering trans masculine people. And implying that people are transitioning because they are gay, because their families or society push them to not be gay and instead transition, is absolutely laughable. Studies have already shown that society as a whole is much less accepting of transgender people than they are of gay people and lesbians. [source]

“Most people probably aren’t aware – I certainly wasn’t, until I started researching this issue properly – that ten years ago, the majority of people wanting to transition to the opposite sex were male. That ratio has now reversed. The UK has experienced a 4400% increase in girls being referred for transitioning treatment. Autistic girls are hugely overrepresented in their numbers.”

There are a number of factors that could have led to such an increase in referrals, and no studies have a definitive answer, though most speculate that the increase in acceptance and visibility of trans people is likely a major contributor. [source] Additionally, I personally believe that more trans women seeked transition years ago because it was impossible to be accepted as a trans woman without fully medically transitioning, whereas trans men could get by without transitioning and simply presenting as their gender. Now that transition is more acceptable and available, trans men do not need to hold themselves back from transitioning, but unfortunately, with more visibility has come more vitriol that is specifically aimed at trans women, and this could discourage them from transitioning or coming out at all. I won’t dignify the statement about autism in afab trans people being prevalent other than saying that cis people can be autistic, trans people can be autistic, and implying that neuro-atypical people cannot make informed decisions about their bodies and healthcare is abhorrent.

“The same phenomenon has been seen in the US. In 2018, American physician and researcher Lisa Littman set out to explore it. In an interview, she said:

‘Parents online were describing a very unusual pattern of transgender-identification where multiple friends and even entire friend groups became transgender-identified at the same time. I would have been remiss had I not considered social contagion and peer influences as potential factors.’

Littman mentioned Tumblr, Reddit, Instagram and YouTube as contributing factors to Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria, where she believes that in the realm of transgender identification ‘youth have created particularly insular echo chambers.’”

Lisa Littman’s study can be read here. There are a multitude of issues with this study, and many big names in psychology and gender studies have spoken up about the issues in her conclusions and in the methods to begin with, which are unscientific and deeply flawed. [source] The biggest flaw, in my opinion, is that the study interviews parents of trans youth as opposed to the trans youth themselves, and takes the parents’ limited knowledge of their child’s inner thoughts and experience as fact without consulting the trans person at all. Additionally, recruitment for the study was mainly done through anti-trans organizations. All of this information is available in the original study and in the rebuttal. Because of this, I cannot take anybody who cites Lisa Littman or her study seriously, because it is not credible whatsoever.

“When I read about the theory of gender identity, I remember how mentally sexless I felt in youth. I remember Colette’s description of herself as a ‘mental hermaphrodite’ and Simone de Beauvoir’s words: ‘It is perfectly natural for the future woman to feel indignant at the limitations posed upon her by her sex. The real question is not why she should reject them: the problem is rather to understand why she accepts them.’”

More people than JK Rowling is probably aware of feel ‘mentally sexless’ in youth, because they have no crippling discomfort regarding their gender identity, and either do not feel pressure to prescribe to gender stereotypical behaviours or actively rebel against it. According to brain studies, everyone is technically a ‘mental hermaphrodite’ because there remains to be no such thing as a male brain or female brain. [source]

“I want to be very clear here: I know transition will be a solution for some gender dysphoric people, although I’m also aware through extensive research that studies have consistently shown that between 60-90% of gender dysphoric teens will grow out of their dysphoria. Again and again I’ve been told to ‘just meet some trans people.’ I have: in addition to a few younger people, who were all adorable, I happen to know a self-described transsexual woman who’s older than I am and wonderful. Although she’s open about her past as a gay man, I’ve always found it hard to think of her as anything other than a woman, and I believe (and certainly hope) she’s completely happy to have transitioned. Being older, though, she went through a long and rigorous process of evaluation, psychotherapy and staged transformation. The current explosion of trans activism is urging a removal of almost all the robust systems through which candidates for sex reassignment were once required to pass. A man who intends to have no surgery and take no hormones may now secure himself a Gender Recognition Certificate and be a woman in the sight of the law. Many people aren’t aware of this.”

First of all, the number of kids who “desist” from their gender dysphoria are not reliable. Mainly because the methods in these studies are not robust (ie one study defined gender dysphoria as exhibiting any behaviour that was not typical of their gender, such as boys playing with barbies and girls playing with monster trucks; another study classified subjects that did not return to the clinic and did not follow up as desisters without confirming). [source] Additionally, studying children who do exhibit true gender dysphoria, the main factor determining whether it will persist or desist seems to be the intensity, and not at all related to peer relations. [source] Trans people wishing to transition medically may no longer need to subject themselves to extensive and unnecessary therapy to convince medical professionals that they are who they say they are, but they still need to wait on very long lists for our turn to access hormone replacement therapy and surgeries, and can spend all of that time being sure that we are indeed trans and want these medical treatments. JK Rowling is also purposefully misreporting facts in regard to Gender Recognition Certificates. In order to get one, one must be over 18, have lived as their true gender for at least 2 full years, and provide two medical reports (one from a gender specialist and another from a general practitioner) citing that they have gender dysphoria. If they have not had any medical transitional treatments, the medical reports must state whether they are waiting for them or why they are not pursuing any, in direct contradiction of JK Rowling’s assertion that any man can get this certificate. [source]

“I believe the majority of trans-identified people not only pose zero threat to others, but are vulnerable for all the reasons I’ve outlined. Trans people need and deserve protection. Like women, they’re most likely to be killed by sexual partners. Trans women who work in the sex industry, particularly trans women of colour, are at particular risk. Like every other domestic abuse and sexual assault survivor I know, I feel nothing but empathy and solidarity with trans women who’ve been abused by men.

So I want trans women to be safe. At the same time, I do not want to make natal girls and women less safe. When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman – and, as I’ve said, gender confirmation certificates may now be granted without any need for surgery or hormones – then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside. That is the simple truth.”

‘Natal girls and women’ is another transphobic dog whistle. There is a non-offensive way to say this, which I am sure if JK Rowling has done all the reading she has claimed to do, she must have stumbled upon the word ‘cisgender’ at some point. It effectively communicates the same information without alienating trans people and implying they are less than cis women. Trans women are not ‘men who believe or feel like women’, and this long standing myth that cis men will use the guise of being a trans woman to gain access to public bathrooms and changerooms has been thoroughly debunked, because trans women have been using women’s bathrooms and changerooms for years with no issues. [source] And scroll up for the claim that Gender Confirmation Certificates are given out to any man who decides to be a woman for a day above, this is just more misinformation, no ‘simple truth’.

“On Saturday morning, I read that the Scottish government is proceeding with its controversial gender recognition plans, which will in effect mean that all a man needs to ‘become a woman’ is to say he’s one. To use a very contemporary word, I was ‘triggered’. Ground down by the relentless attacks from trans activists on social media, when I was only there to give children feedback about pictures they’d drawn for my book under lockdown, I spent much of Saturday in a very dark place inside my head, as memories of a serious sexual assault I suffered in my twenties recurred on a loop. That assault happened at a time and in a space where I was vulnerable, and a man capitalised on an opportunity. I couldn’t shut out those memories and I was finding it hard to contain my anger and disappointment about the way I believe my government is playing fast and loose with womens and girls’ safety.”

First of all, JK Rowling is blatantly lying. The Gender Recognition Act Reform has been completely shelved by the Scottish government in light if the more pressing need to fight the coronavirus on April 1st, and I cannot find any updates on this being considered by the government. [source] The only trans related news out of Scotland I can find is that on June 5th, the Scottish government included trans women in the definition of women in guidance for school boards, which will have none of the effects that JK Rowling is fear mongering about. [source] Again, I am upset to know that JK Rowling is a survivor, but she is using this revelation as a weapon to make people fear that it will happen to others as a result of trans people gaining access to the same public spaces as their cis counterparts. Women’s and girls’ safety is NOT being put at risk by trans people using a bathroom or changeroom.

#jk rowling #transphobe #terf #important #not hp #long post #sources

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fire-type-caracal · 5 years ago

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Reasons I Might Be Trans

Warning: I talk about my sexuality in this post, including bedroom activities. (I don’t normally discuss those things online.) If you are related to me or don't want to know things like that about me, turn away now. Thanks.

I don't think I'm 100% a cis woman. But I hate thinking of myself as trans, because I largely think of the pain that I see trans people go through when I think of applying that label to myself. As I'm living right now, as someone who looks like a married straight woman with a masculine clothing sensibility to average onlookers, I don't have to worry about gendered violence against my perceived gender variance. The worst I might get is an assumption that I'm a lesbian, because of my short hair and masculine clothes, but since it’s so infrequent an occurrence in my life, that's not on the same level of badness as being denied a job because I don't resemble my pronoun enough to a prejudiced boss. Or to being threatened or attacked when on a date with my S.O - who right now, is a cis man. (I’m poly, but I only have one partner right now.) My transness would feel fake - unearned - if it was real. Since I also don't have problems with the AFAB-accessory of the female pronouns, I have to look closer at my life for more subtle clues scattered through it, to determine whether or not I am genderqueer - specifically, genderfluid:

Reasons I might be trans:

I got a thrill when I was mistaken for a man in public once.

I've done 3 Halloween costumes representing pop culture figures that I really cared about. Two of them were men. (During the Beetlejuice/Lydia costume when I was Lydia, I was jealous of my parenter for being in the better costume. So I won't count it.)

My steampunk costume was male.

Many of my sexual fantasies involve playing a male role.

I exclusively watched male - male porn for most of my porn watching life. I only started watching male - female and female - female after I developed a stronger attraction to women recently.

I feel a weird kinship with gay men. I used to joke about probably having been one in a past life. (I now think that it is because I want to be one.)

I asked a gay man about whether or not I would be accepted as a man if I transitioned, and still only dated men, 10 years ago. I buried that idea as silly and foolish after I decided that it would be easier to find a straight partner than to first transition and then to find an accepting male partner. (That's a normal, totally cis thing to wonder, right?) I didn't know at the time that medically transitioning wasn't necessary to be trans.

Most of my fashion icons are men.

I accept and respond to "he"/"him"/"dude"/"son"/"brother"

I have had a few changed gender dreams

At work, I panic about accidentally walking into the men's room when the women's restroom is painted the same color as the men's . Would a cis person panic about that? Almost every time?

My ideal wedding outfit is a tux, not a dress

I have considered and rejected getting my upper lip hair electrically removed "in case I really need those hairs some day" (What kind of 'some day' would that be, I think to my dumb self??)

Reasons I might not be trans

I accept and respond to "she"/"her"/"woman"/"daughter"/"sister"/"mommy" (when referring to my cat, I’m not a parent.)

I reject "daddy" when referred to as that re: my cat

I have no desire to permanently remove my breasts or to change the shape of my genitals

I use the woman's room without worrying about looking wrong for it

I like dresses and makeup sometimes - makeup, more.

I could just be a slightly butch bi/pan woman with a penis fetish and a love for male fashion and an acceptance of male pronouns. That is a normal thing to be and not genderqueer at all, right?

Some of the things on the "not trans" list don't invalidate gender fluidity. So. Here I am, now, suspecting that it might be a thing, maybe.

#trans #transgender #genderfluid #genderqueer

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bitchboi2000-blog · 5 years ago

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Is Asexuality LGBT (An Essay?--This is longer than I intended it to be lol)

I know I’ve never really made a post on here before, I usually enjoy looking at other peoples’ content and not contributing to much myself since I usually don’t feel I have anything to share, talent or information-wise. However, I’ve recently been seeing a lot of arguing over a certain topic, and although I’ve sort of seen it before, for some reason this theme has been heating up a lot lately and now that it’s becoming more frequently apparent, it’s been something I’ve thought about a lot more. There’s one YouTuber I enjoy the content of, and I generally agree with his views and opinions on various subjects, and when he brought this topic up in one of his videos that I only recently discovered, I found myself a little... disappointed. I still understand where he was coming from and respect why he felt the way he did, but I feel that he was also pretty uneducated on the subject and, since I know many other people seem to be as well, I thought maybe, just maybe, I could put something out there that might, hypothetically, shed some light. Just giving my own opinion, stance, and thoughts to consider for anyone on any side of the argument.

And what is this controversial topic, you may ask?

Whether or not asexuality is included in the LGBT(+) community.

Many people say they are, many people say they aren’t. I think both stances are valid, but the reasons why someone may claim one or the other is something that I find a particular issue with. To me, whether or not asexuality is in the LGBT community is sort of a grey area, it’s not so easy to say because it’s not quite so obvious. Asexuality is a spectrum, and this topic is complicated.

First, I’m going to go over why many people claim they shouldn’t be included in the community (and whether or not I agree with those claims). Then, I’ll go over why many people claim they should be part of the community (and whether or not I agree with those claims), and, finally, I’ll give my own personal opinion and stance.

To start with: Why it isn’t.

1. “The LGBT community is for people who have sexual attraction to the same sex! If you don’t have any sexual attraction, you wouldn’t belong with the LGBT!”

-- I don’t 100% agree. The LGBT community isn’t exclusive to people who feel same-sex attraction. Bisexuality exists, and they aren’t exclusively attracted to the same sex. Also! Transgender people exist, and they could be 100% heterosexual but because they’re trans, they’re still part of the LGBT community! And, therefore, the LGBT community isn’t restricted only to your sexual orientation being geared toward the same sex. So although this doesn’t debunk the claim on whether or not asexuality should be included, it’s something to consider.

2. “If you lack sexual attraction to someone, nobody’s discriminating against you. It’s not even in the same realm as being lesbian or gay.”

-- I could agree with this to an extent. The discrimination asexuals face, historically, aren’t the same as those who are gay or trans. Just like the discrimination bisexuals face isn’t the same as a homosexual. They may be similar, but they’re different. Likewise, asexuals--contrary to this popular belief--do experience discrimination. It may look different, and they may be treated differently, and sometimes it’s with less severity of homosexuality, but discrimination is discrimination. I don’t mind people saying that asexuals don’t experience the same sort of discrimination as trans and homosexual people, because that’s true! But I do have an issue with people claiming that they don’t experience discrimination because that’s not true. At least, not always. Are there asexuals who have experienced no discrimination? Absolutely. For some asexuals, the worst that’s happened to them is that people look at them in confusion, respect their identity, or perhaps make jokes about how they’re a plant (which when done in a light-hearted attitude is just an annoyance, but they’re not being treated any differently or as any less of a human being). However, there are asexuals who do. For many years, asexuality was considered to be a mental illness. That there was something “wrong” with a person because they didn’t have any sexual desires. Similar to a form of discrimination that many homosexuals face, many people try to invalidate asexuality by saying “you only feel that way as a defense mechanism after being sexually abused”. This is implying that you can’t truly be of your sexual orientation unless you were harmed in some way, and although defense mechanisms are a valid way of coping with trauma, claiming that someone is only of their sexual orientation because of their trauma is incredibly rude, invalidating, and uneducated. Heterosexuals can still be heterosexual even if they’ve been sexually abused, and homosexuals can be homosexual even if they’ve never been sexually abused. A person’s sexuality is a part of who they are, it’s not a choice or something that “happened” to them. It’s not something someone can change (you can change your behavior for your sake or someone else’s, but you can’t change who you are. It’s how closeted homosexuals can pass being in a heterosexual relationship--because their desire for emotional and/or physical survival outweighs their natural attraction to the same sex, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t homosexual). So, for asexuality to be written off as a coping mechanism due to trauma is, in a way, a form of discrimination. It’s saying that what that person feels and is experiencing isn’t real or valid, and it can be very harmful and damaging to a person in many ways. Many people do see asexuals as “broken people” or as if there was something wrong with them. Even if they don’t believe it’s something their doing as a “coping mechanism” and respect asexuality as a sexual orientation, they still think there’s something wrong with being asexual. Just like how some people can respect that homosexuality is a sexual orientation, and even believe it’s not something they can help, but still think there’s something wrong with homosexual people. Asexuals are often seen as cold, frigid, emotionless, unloveable people, and are even associated with not being human. Even though it is often said in a joking light (though not always), there’s always the questions and claims rising up of “sexuality is part of human nature, you’re going against nature’s design and natural calling”, “humans are sexual beings, so, therefore, there’s something wrong with you and you must not be human”, “are you secretly a robot or something? How can you not feel anything??”. These are all very dehumanizing, and when an asexual is faced with these questions and claims, it can very much leave a person feeling lost, or like there’s something wrong with them and they’re not “normal”. Treating someone, like there’s something wrong with them (due to their sexuality), implying that someone may not be human, suggesting that they must be cold and callous and aren’t desirable in a friendship or relationship, is all a form of discrimination that can hurt a person’s psyche, is it not? Some asexuals are sexually assaulted because the assaulter believes they can “fix” the asexual and turn them straight/homosexual/whatever. “Corrective rape” is just as much discrimination for a homosexual as it is for an asexual. The root is discrimination against the victim’s sexuality, the result is a scarring act of violence. Some asexuals, believe it or not, are not accepted by their families for their orientation. On the most minor level, they’re dismissed and treated as a “late bloomer”, on the worst level, they’re sent to a conversion camp because being asexual is “just as bad as homosexuality” simply because, in some religious beliefs, not reproducing is going against god’s plan and design for you and is therefore a sin. I’ve not yet heard of an asexual being kicked out of their house for being asexual, but that doesn’t mean all asexuals are accepted by their family and don’t experience discrimination from loved ones (which is why, again, the discrimination may look different, but it’s still there). Some people hold the belief that anyone who isn’t cisgender and heterosexual is, somehow, crazy, uneducated, irrational, and in religious contexts, a sinner or abomination. Because of this, sometimes, if someone claims to be asexual, they are automatically lumped in with these negative claims. Similar to how just being homosexual can give you a “bad” rep, in some cases, just being anything other than heterosexual can give you that same “bad rep”, and asexuality is included in that. It’s not as common, but you absolutely can be killed for being asexual. To be fair, you can be murdered for just about any reason or motive, but if you think that being asexual is taken off of the list, you’re completely wrong. Just as a cishet woman could potentially be killed by a man for rejecting his romantic/sexual advances and a cis lesbian or trans man could be murdered for prejudiced and bigotted beliefs, asexuality absolutely could be a reason for a hateful, violent person to attack another individual. It’s not the most common form of discrimination for ace people, it’s not the most known form of discrimination for ace people, ace people aren’t more popularly known for being at risk for this (though are ace people commonly known by society, anyway?), but do not think that just because someone’s asexual they are automatically unqualified to be targetted for violence. Violence can happen to anyone, for any reason, at any time. And, if you wanted to go there, asexuals can also potentially be discriminated against when people claim it’s not a real sexuality. Asexuals are often rejected by both the heterosexual community (from being very clearly not heterosexual) and rejected by the LGBT community (for being very clearly not homosexual, either). Not being seen as belonging in either community can certainly be a form of discrimination and ostracization. Not the worst form of it, but certainly a form.

3. “I don’t really have an issue with asexuality, but heteromantic asexuals are basically just heterosexual, so they don’t belong in the community at all.”

-- I understand this claim and, to a degree, respect it. There are many asexual heteromantic cisgender people who in no way identify with the LGBT community because they just don’t see themselves as “queer” in any way, so they don’t fit in. Because asexuals don’t experience sexual attraction, that’s one less thing they can bond with LGBT members over (since cishet asexuals don’t experience discrimination for their gender or who they fell in love with in fifth grade). And because the LGBT community can so often have a hypersexual air about it, many asexuals themselves don’t feel like they belong there. Some people are okay with asexuals being in the LGBT community because they’re also homo/biromantic or transgender. So for a lot of people, whether or not you belong in the LGBT community depends on whether or not you in any way fit into one of the existing acronyms and not whether or not you’re of marginalized sexuality. To a degree, I respect this. Many LGBT people don’t want their safe space to be invaded by cishet (as in both of those things simultaneously in the same person) people since those people so often have oppressed them, and though they love their cishet friends, the LGBT community just isn’t their space to be. Just like you may love your little sister but when she’s constantly barging into your bedroom it gets annoying because--she has a room of her own! And you two spend time with each other in the rest of the house! Why does she have to come into your room when you’re with your friends and you really just want to enjoy their company without your sister being involved?! And, because cishet(eromantic) asexual people still pass as being cishet, they’re often lumped in the same group and aren’t really welcomed into the community. Which, again. I understand that and kind of respect it. But, on the other hand--if cishet asexual people also feel alienated by cis heterosexual/romantic people, then it feels like they have nowhere to go--so I also understand why they turn to the LGBT community and try to find a place there. The LGBT community is known for being a place of acceptance for discriminated/oppressed sexualities and gender identities, so it’s understandable why an asexual would feel more at home among those sorts of people. Basically, my point is that I understand this view point, and I respect it. I don’t 100% agree, but I don’t really disagree, either. I’ll get more onto this in the end when I go over my own stance.

4. “The A stands for Ally!”

-- lol that’s debatable. A lot of people don’t even like to call it the LGBTQIA+ community because it becomes too many letters, and they just go by LGBT--which certainly doesn’t have an A. Even if you are being inclusive of all those little letters, whether the A actually stands for asexual or ally is debatable. Many asexuals believe the A stands for asexuality--because asexuality is an actual minority sexual orientation, meanwhile just being an ally of the LGBT community isn’t in any way actually being a part of the community. Because you just support it. But you aren’t in it. So I understand why many people claim the A is for asexuality and not for being an “ally”. Because allyship isn’t a sexuality lol when you’re an ally you’re literally saying you’re cishet, not part of the community, but you support the community. Which is really nice and awesome, but I don’t understand why you’d have a letter included in that community when you’re not... part of that community. It’s like saying “that’s great that this is a charity for starving children, but could you also include the wealthy fed people in the title? Why? Well because we’re donating to help the starving children! So we should be included in the name of this charity!! We’re a very big part of it!!” There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being a supportive ally (it’s incredibly important that we have you guys), but the community isn’t for you--so when people try to claim that the A is for “ally”, I just... I don’t think so. I don’t agree. I understand why asexuals are trying to claim the A.

5. “The A stands for Ally so closeted people can still join!”

-- I completely respect this. 100%. So many closeted people want to be proud of who they are, but for their own safety, they can’t. So claiming to be an “ally”, going to pride events because they’re an “ally”, etc. is a great way for them to still interact, still be part of the community, while keeping their safety. I absolutely don’t mind the A being included in the acronym if it’s being used as a cover identity for closeted individuals. I think it’s great that it can be used that way and fully support that. If someone wants to use the A in the acronym because they secretly are LGBT and want to be included in the community while being safely closeted, I think that’s fine. If you try to tell me that the A stands for ally because supporting the LGBT community means you’re deserving to be part of the community, and asexuals don’t belong to be part of the community because the A is for ally and not for asexuality, then I don’t agree with you. Because in that scenario you’re literally forcing yourself into a community you’re not technically a part of, while simultaneously trying to push out an actual minority sexuality.

6. “Asexuality is a choice”

-- Absolutely not. Celibacy and asexuality are two different things. If you don’t think asexuality belongs in the LGBT community because you think asexuality is a choice, you should first educate yourself on what asexuality actually is and then please restate your opinion and stance. You can be a celibate homosexual. Celibacy is a choice. Asexuality is a sexual orientation. One is something you choose despite the desire, one is a sexual orientation--something you can’t help or change even though you may want to because of how society treats you.

7. “I’m fine with agender, but not asexuality because you still have dysphoria and transition, so you’re still trans, but with asexuality you’re not changing anything. You’re not being discriminated against, nothing’s happening to you”

-- As far as the discrimination thing goes, I think you can read one of my above statements to know that I completely disagree. And as far as needing to change, that’s not accurate, either. Trying to compare a sexuality to a gender identity is comparing apples and oranges. Yes, both have an “a” to represent the lack of something, but they’re two completely different things. Your sexuality isn’t supposed to change. Like, I suppose an asexual can “change” their lifestyle by coming out, accepting who they are, and becoming more comfortable in their sexual orientation, wearing more pride colors if they felt like it, and making shitty puns--which would be no different than with a homosexual person doing those same things. But of course, those “changes” are completely different than a trans person’s changing process. They’re two entirely different things. Saying an asexual doesn’t belong in the LGBT community because they’re not “changing” and “nothing is happening to them” is completely irrelevant because we’re not talking about gender identity here, we’re talking about sexuality. This is an invalid argument.

8. “There are no asexual icons who are advocating for the LGBT community.” “Historically, asexuals aren’t contributing to the LGBT community, they haven’t fought for any of our rights, so they don’t belong in the LGBT community”.

-- I admit I don’t know too much history and every political figure to know whether or not this is true. My guess is that in all the history of the world, I’m sure there’s been at least one asexual person who’s advocated and fought for LGBT related things (maybe they didn’t have the word to describe their sexuality, but still fought for the community nonetheless). But, even if, hypothetically, there were no LGBT activists who were asexual, ever, in the history of mankind. ...Do you need to be an advocate to be part of the community? Many LGBT people are happy living their lives, grateful to those who have fought for their rights and basking in those liberations without going to protests or marches, themselves. Not every person has to go to war to enjoy living in safety. Similarly, you can still be part of the LGBT community without being an advocate, yourself. This is kind of rude for every LGBT person who’s never faced discrimination (because society is changing, and there are some--even if few--who haven’t been horribly discriminated against for their sexuality) or hasn’t actively participated in any marches, protests, or historical events. But that doesn’t mean they’re not gay. Just like there’s been many people who have fought for gay rights, trans rights, who have gone to marches and made a change, historically, who aren’t gay themselves. They did it because it was the right thing to do, because they cared, they were able to, because they were an ally. I feel this is also an invalid argument because whether someone should be part of the LGBT community, in my opinion, shouldn’t be depending on whether or not they’ve personally contributed something significant to it. But idk that’s just my opinion. I understand where this argument is coming from and what they’re trying to say, I just don’t entirely think it’s a valid argument to exclude a particular sexuality.

Now, reasons why people claim that asexuality should be part of the LGBT community.

1. “The LGBT community is a community for any minority sexual orientation or gender! And, therefore, asexuality should be included!

-- I don’t completely agree. I do feel like the LGBT community is more reserved for minority sexualities and gender identities who have been discriminated against, oppressed, and have been mistreated by society in one way or another for their identity. And although, yes, many minority sexualities do get odd looks and people may make fun of you or tease you or think you’re stupid or crazy, that’s not really legitimate discrimination (in my opinion) where you would need a “safe place” or an entire community of your own. You don’t need a support group (in my opinion). Demisexuality is a valid orientation, I’m glad there’s a word for it--since it’s a more specific term than just saying you’re heterosexual or homosexual and people getting the wrong idea when they hit you up for a one night stand. I don’t think demisexuality is oppressed and I don’t think it needs to be in the LGBT community--if you were demiheterosexual, cisgender, heteromantic, I don’t personally think you’d be part of the LGBT community just because you have a little demi in there and are ““technically”” of a “minority” “”sexuality””. Someone can be “homoflexible” as their sexuality, and it’s a valid sexuality, I’m glad there’s a specific word for it, and that’s fine. Maybe someone prefers to identify with the minority sexuality of “homoflexible” instead of claiming to be bisexual, and that’s fine. They’re still part of the LGBT community because they mostly are attracted to the same sex and thus are extremely prone to the discrimination 100% homosexual people experience. My point is, I don’t think minority sexualities are invalid, I’m glad there’s words out there that exist for them. Having specific labels, precise identifiers, particular words that exactly describe you are important to a lot of people, so having those terms and minority labels are perfectly fine with me. I have no issue with it if someone identifies as demihomosexual panromantic cis man. I now have a more precise idea of your orientation and identity, so I like that. I do have an issue with people saying that just because it’s in the minority it belongs in the LGBT community. There’s fine lines and grey areas, sure. But just because it’s “out of the usual” doesn’t mean it belongs. I say this because then people get confused and think they can any less-common sexuality or identity into the LGBT community which not only makes us sometimes look like crazy fools to the rest of the world (I’m sorry, I don’t believe in stargender), and then you get people who think they’re part of the LGBT community and want to have everything inclusive of them and revolving around them just because they’re lithosexual and loses feelings for every person they’ve been with--even though they’re heterosexual and cisgender. It’s fine that they identify as lithosexual (even though they’re also heterosexual and cisgender), but that doesn’t necessarily mean the LGBT community is for them. But just because it’s a minority sexuality or identity doesn’t mean it’s necessarily part of the LGBT community, that the LGBT community is for them, or that the LGBT community will accept them (and when they get rejected that they have every right to fight their way inside the community they were rejected from anyway). The SAGA(sexuality and gender acceptance) community is accepting of every gender and sexual orientation, so that’s the perfect place for any minority that wants a place to belong when they don’t quite fit for the LGBT community.

2. The A means “Asexuality”!

-- That’s entirely debatable. I don’t personally know who was the first one to put “A” in the LGBT+ acronym, but that person is the only one who can clarify what the A means. As far as I know, the A could mean “Ally” (meant to be used for closeted people), it could mean “Asexuality”, and neither has been confirmed or proven. Not trying to invalidate, or say asexuality is or isn’t in the LGBT community, just I don’t think this is the strongest argument.

3. “Asexuals are discriminated against and if you’re being discriminated against, you belong in the LGBT community!”

-- Again, I don’t entirely agree with that mindset. As I’ve made it clear above, I don’t think that just because you’re being discriminated against means you’re part of the LGBT community. You could be a pedophile, and there will be backlash with your predatory behavior, and that doesn’t mean you’re valid and belong to be in the LGBT community. You could really like pineapple on your pizza, and maybe your friends make fun of you or bully you for it, but just because you’re being ~”discriminated”~ against doesn’t mean you’re LGBT. You can face oppression for your religious beliefs, but that doesn’t make you LGBT.

4. “Asexuality is a minority sexuality that’s faced discrimination and they don’t really belong in the hetero community, so they feel more comfortable and safe in the LGBT community and I think we should be accepting of them, because I’ve been mistreated for my sexuality, and I don’t want to send them away.”

-- There are many LGBT people who are accepting of asexuals and think they belong in the community because many asexuals feel like they have nowhere else they really belong, identify as a minority sexual orientation, and feel more comfortable identifying as part of the LGBT community. Considering asexuality isn’t heterosexuality (and unlike demisexuality where there can be grey lines, it is very OBVIOUSLY not heterosexuality), and many asexuals do experience some form of discrimination or invalidation of who they are, many LGBT people think there’s nothing wrong in including them into the LGBT community, and many LGBT people feel that the LGBT community should be accepting of asexuality because they personally feel that asexuality fits in well enough with the LGBT community and certainly is too different from heterosexuality to be seen as anything other than “queer”. I personally don’t think this is a necessarily wrong or bad reason to support asexuality belonging in the LGBT community.

Now, here’s my opinion. And I know what you’re about to say: “But you were just spending this whole post talking about your opinion!!” Yes!! I was!! I was giving various claims and arguments on whether or not asexuality should be part of the LGBT community, and what my thoughts on those arguments were. But now I just want to fully express my stance and beliefs.

I believe, ultimately, that it depends entirely from case to case. I believe some asexuals belong in the LGBT community (and not because they’re also biromantic or trans or something else), and I believe some asexuals don’t belong in the LGBT community (and not because they’re cisgender and heteromantic).

Asexuality is a minority sexuality, but it’s far more common than people think. There have been researches on it, statistics drawn, and it’s not some random, obscure sexuality that only a hundred people “vibe” with. It’s 1% of the population, roughly, which puts them at about the same frequency as transgender people (who are also roughly 1% of the world’s population). Because of this, I don’t think asexuality is some extremely minor, incredibly niche group of people. I think that as far as minority sexualities go, asexuality is common enough, present enough, and exists frequently enough in people to be part of the LGBT community. I believe asexuality can experience discrimination due to their sexuality--and because it’s not some incredibly rare thing that only 20 people identify as, I believe this discrimination is in more valid need of a space and community than some obscure identity like placiosexuality (which is more of a preference in action, not a distinct sexuality that stands on its own--it’s a modifier to a sexuality, but not a sexuality distinctly on its own).

And, as such, I personally feel that it vibes well with the LGBT community, and I don’t personally have an issue with it being in the LGBT community. If a bisexual person experiences discrimination for being bisexual, but ultimately can still live a “straight passing” relationship and escape from their oppression, and still be considered LGBT, I think that a heteromantic asexual, who is discriminated against and oppressed for their asexuality, and struggles to be in relationships even though they’re “hetero” can also be part of the LGBT community. If an asexual person is struggling with their identity, is being discriminated against, is afraid that their partners might act out violently against them because of their sexuality (or pressure and coerce them into sexual activity that the person doesn’t want to engage in), they’ve been ostracized by their family, mistreated by their friends, all for their sexuality--I understand why they’d turn to the LGBT community, a community known for being accepted of sexualities that aren’t otherwise accepted by society, and hope to find a place where they belong in that community. And if an asexual person experienced all of those things because of their sexuality, I don’t care if they’re heteromantic and cisgender. I, personally, have no issue with considering them LGBT, because I just don’t really see asexuals as being “straight”, and if that particular asexual is already struggling so hard with trying to live a “heterosexual” life and they’re being discriminated against and it’s making them miserable, yeah. I really don’t mind if they want to consider themselves LGBT and feel more comfortable with that label and want to associate with us.

I think that if a person is asexual and aromantic, and if they want to consider themselves part of the LGBT community, I’m perfectly fine with that as well. They’re, very clearly, not hetero in any way shape or form, and so, again, I personally feel they vibe well and if they want to consider themselves LGBT I don’t have an issue with it.

If someone is heterosexual, cisgender, and aromantic... I don’t think they belong in the LGBT community. Of course, I’m open to it, but just like with other extreme minority identities, I don’t think just because you’re out of the norm you necessarily belong to the LGBT community. I, personally, don’t think cis/het aromantic people face any legitimate discriminations (aside from just being told they’re heartless--which certainly sucks, but I don’t think it’s legitimate enough to call for needing a support group or an entire community for), and I don’t personally feel that they vibe enough with the LGBT community. Of course, I might change my mind, I might be informed otherwise, but right now, that’s just my stance. There’s plenty of cisgender heterosexual people who aren’t looking for relationships, and I don’t personally know of them being discriminated against for their sexuality where they would need to be in the LGBT community. The AVEN community? Definitely. But not LGBT. Not in my opinion, unless, again, someone can give me a good and legitimate argument.

Now, if you’re asexual, heteromantic, and cisgender, and you’ve not been terribly mistreated because you’re asexual, you’ve not been discriminated against because you’re asexual, and the worst thing that’s happened to you because you’re asexual is your family says “you’re just a late bloomer” and your friends joke “lol r u a plant”... I personally don’t think you belong in the LGBT community, either. And I know it sucks to be playing the “oppression points” game, and that just because you’re oppressed doesn’t make you more/less valid, and that there’s some gay kids that don’t get oppressed--which are all valid points, but... You have to understand that the LGBT community isn’t just being oppressed, and just being a minority. Both things are important and valid, but to my understanding of it, LGBT is for people who’ve been legitimately discriminated against because of their identity. And if you haven’t been discriminated against for your asexuality (which already is even debatable whether or not asexuality is even LGBT), but in every other aspect of your life you don’t identify with the LGBT community even a little bit, it’s hard for me to see why you would really need to be accepted into the LGBT community. Not a whim, or a want, because you want to feel “cool” or whatever, but why you actually think that you need to be included in the LGBT community, why you want to get that support from other queer people, why do you think you’re queer when you already so heavily vibe with cis/het society and don’t struggle with fitting in with that society? I’m not trying to be rude, or gatekeeping (technically I can’t tell you anything--if you want to claim to be LGBT I can’t stop you from claiming that), or invalidating of your identity, I just personally don’t know why you think you would need to be part of the LGBT community. Again, maybe someone can give me a compelling argument to change my mind, but I don’t see any need for an asexual heteromantic cisgender person who’s experienced no discrimination to need a space in the LGBT community. I don’t see why there’s that emotional or psychological need.

If you’re asexual and transgender, homoromantic, biromantic, or whatever, I don’t know why you’re concerned about this. You’re already LGBT for different reasons. I’d like to know why you think asexuality needs to be considered LGBT if you’re already being included in the community. Not judging, just wondering.

“But what if asexual heteromantic cisgenders still want a community where they belong, even if they haven’t gotten enough OppReSsIoN PoINtS to BeLoNG in the LGBT community?!?!”

AVEN. AVEN is a community made by asexuals, for asexuals. And not just asexuality. As many aces know, “Asexual” is just an umbrella term. Demisexual, greysexual, and asexual people are all included in the AVEN community. You could be asexual and sex repulsed, sex neutral, sex positive, and you’ll fit in the AVEN community. You could be of any romantic orientation (hetero, bi, homo, whatever) and any gender identity and still be part of the AVEN community. You can have any sexuality and be aromantic and be part of the AVEN community. AVEN isn’t for heterosexual heteromantics, it’s for asexuals and aromantics and all of those variants.

I, personally, believe asexuality is a completely valid identity. I believe some asexuals fit in fine with the LGBT community and I consider some asexuals to be part of the LGBT community, and for those who I don’t personally think are part of the LGBT community, I don’t see why that’s a problem--because I’m not throwing you to the dogs or forcing you to find your way with heterosexual/romantics, but because there’s already another community that’s perfect for you. I understand wanting a space of your own that’s different than the rest of society, and even though I don’t think the LGBT community is always for every person, that doesn’t mean there’s no alternatives. I think the AVEN community is a perfect place for asexuals and aromantics of all types--it overlaps with the LGBT community because many asexuals are also homoromantic or trans, but it’s not the same as a completely cishet community like the rest of society--so even if you do lean on the more cishet side of asexuality or aromanticism, you still absolutely 100% belong in the AVEN community without any discussion. Just like the SAGA community is perfect for LGBT+ people who want to be even more inclusive of everything, or merely want a different acronym, that’s fine.

And, also, here’s the thing. A lot of asexuals, pardon my pun, don’t give a fuck. I’ve known heteromantic cisgender asexuals who don’t identify with the LGBT or AVEN community and don’t want to be a part of it. I think that’s fine. Hell, there’s plenty of asexuals who may already be a part of the LGBT community who don’t care if asexuality is included in the acronym or not because whether or not asexuality is included--even though they’re asexual themselves--doesn’t really matter to them. I’ve known plenty of LGBT people who aren’t aro/ace in any way who are 100% fine with asexuals being included and are completely against this whole discourse to begin with. I’ve known plenty of people who are ace who don’t care if they’re LGBT or not, or even prefer not to be considered LGBT, because they have the AVEN community and feel that’s more where they fit in and belong anyway.

I just don’t think people really care that much. If you want to consider yourself LGBT, that’s fine. I don’t think anyone’s going to stop you. For some of the people who might argue that you don’t belong, whatever, it doesn’t really matter. Some people are sensitive over LGBT issues and feel strongly over what they think should or shouldn’t be included, and I think that’s perfectly fine. If you feel like it does matter that some people don’t think you’re LGBT, then you have AVEN, so it’s not like you’re alone and have nowhere to go. I just don’t think this is as big of an issue as most people are trying to make it out to be.

Also, just so we’re clear, I’m asexual, myself. I’m also biromantic and trans. I’m not perfect, I don’t know everything, but because I’m asexual and already part of the LGBT community, I’ve got a pretty good idea of what the LGBT and AVEN communities are like, and since I am part of both, I feel like I have more thoughts and insight on it than, say, a heterosexual/heteromantic trans guy who has limited knowledge of what the “asexuality experience” even is like. I think there’s a lot of grey areas, a lot of thin lines, and I personally don’t feel it’s an extremely black and white issue. For some people it is, and I don’t personally care when someone feels strongly one way or another. I personally think whether an asexual person belongs in the LGBT community or not depends on a case-by-case scenario, and it’s up for discussion. I’m okay with asexuality being LGBT, I’m okay with it not being LGBT. Since the AVEN community is already a thing that exists, I don’t see why it’s such a huge deal whether you fit in with the LGBT community or not solely for the fact that you’re asexual and nothing else. I do get bothered when people say “you can’t be LGBT because asexuals don’t get discriminated against” and I also have an issue with saying “LGBT should be supportive and accepting of everyone!” as stated above. Which is why I can’t say it’s a black and white, yes or no thing. I understand both sides, both sides of this argument make good points that I can respect to a degree and can even agree with sometimes. Which is why I personally think...

Is asexuality LGBT? I think it just depends on the person.

#asexuality #ace #discourse #lgbt #lgbtcommunity #aven #avencommunity

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freedom-of-fanfic · 6 years ago

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Hi, I have a question! What exactly would intersectional feminism look like? I ask because I see a lot of lip service but not a lot of action, and I'd like to know what I can actually do to help out.

good question.

first I want to point you to the roots of intersectional feminism as an idea, theory, and practice: a theory of feminism specifically about the experiences of Black women in the US.

While the theory of being intersectional with your feminism is practicable/applicable in terms of any intersection of negative effects of patriarchy & other types of marginalization, the specific conceptualization of intersectional feminism was developed by Professor Kimberlé Crenshaw in response to observing & experiencing the intersection of anti-black racism and misogyny and how that changed the experience with both. In her words: “The basic term came out of a case where I was looking at black women who were being discriminated against, not just as black people and not just as women, but as black women.” (x) That is: it’s not as simple as experiencing both anti-black racism and misogyny: where they intersect, anti-black racism & misogyny compound, forming a new, specific type of oppression that’s unique from each of its parts. a form of oppression only experienced by/inflicted on black women (and sometimes inflicted on those incorrectly perceived as black women).

so I’d check out what she has to say on it before anything I have to say on it. And on that note:

Here’s Professor Crenshaw giving a TED talk about intersectional feminism

Mapping the Margins: Intersectionality, Identity Politics, and Violence Against Women of Color by Professor Crenshaw

An interview with Professor Crenshaw contextualizing violence against Black communities (women particularly) & defending against that violence

In building her theory of intersections of oppression, Kimberlé Crenshaw coined the term ‘intersectionality’ as a holistic look at how a form of systemic marginalization hurts any one person. and in this way, intersectionality in our feminism is applicable to other intersections of hurt. For example: a burka-wearing person in a wheelchair experiences marginalization in a way that only another burka-wearing person in a wheelchair could, and demanding/advocating better treatment, respect, and recognition for people who wear burkas and people who use wheelchairs at the same time is going to do good for all burka-wearing people who regularly use wheelchairs.

What that ‘looks like’ is going to really depend on the situation, imho, and I think it’s different on a personal vs macro level. my (very rough, very simplified) take on how to practice intersectionality in your feminism is:

on an individual level:

setting aside your assumptions or judgement about a person’s* situation, lifestyle, and experiences - particularly in places where they are ‘less’ accommodated or consideredat a societal scale than you (or also unaccommodated/unconsidered at a societal scale, but in a different way than you are.

listening closely to what a person says about themselves: what they experience, what they already have, and what (if anything) they request from you.

acting in accordance with what that person’s wants & requests rather than in accordance with what you think that person wants or needs.

respecting others as individuals by drawing on experience and education to inform your responses to them, but always remembering that previous information is a guideline, not a rulebook.

This example by @star-anise of how intersectionality would have made the work at a women’s shelter much more effective is, imho, a good example of what intersectional feminism would target if put into practice at an individual level.

on a broad level:

particularly in areas where society treats you as ‘default’**, and therefore ‘normal’, consistently make an effort to be aware of your trained, subconscious assumptions about other people who deviate from the ‘default’.

particularly in situations where society treats you as ‘default’, and therefore you rarely encounter difficulties or discrimination in your daily life, consistently make an effort to be sensitive to how you may not notice inconveniences or outright harm other people experience in the same situations.

make a specific effort to broaden your sources of information by drawing on work from people of many demographics, experiences, and educational backgrounds. listen with particular care to people whose voices are usually ignored or drowned out - frequently people who are marginalized / marginalized in more than one way.

make a specific, ongoing effort to promote and signal boost the voices of people who have traditionally been ignored, pushed to the side, or ‘spoken over’ - frequently people who are marginalized / marginalized in more than one way.

(at the same time: don’t expect any one marginalized person to be a ‘spokesperson’ for all other similarly marginalized people. treat individuals as individuals. recognize that the experiences and opinions of any two people can be wildly different, even if their demographics are the same.)

take appropriate action on behalf of people in the ways you are asked to by those people, as opposed to taking action based on what you think is best for them.

when it’s appropriate***, help teach others. it can be hard to balance this, imho, between not speaking over other people who have disadvantages you don’t and also not demanding that disadvantaged people constantly educate everyone else about their difficulties, but I think it’s important.

recognize that inaction benefits/perpetuates the status quo, which is in favor of the current ‘default’ and hurts anyone who isn’t ‘default’.

on a political level:

where you can, use your privilege (or the intersection of privilege & lack thereof!) to protect others who don’t share your privilege. take action you’re safe to take on behalf of people who wouldn’t be safe to take that same action.

vote for people who pledge to protect & improve life for people in all kinds of disadvantaged situations. Make voting for those people a priority.

attend or support protests on behalf of people who have disadvantages you don’t have.

make donations to advocacy groups made up of the people they represent.

volunteer in fundraising, helping, supporting, etc people who have different disadvantages than you.

I’m sure there’s lots of stuff I didn’t mention that people can think of. but the long and short of it is: respect other people. listen to them. act in their best interest - not your assumption of what would be their best interest.

here’s some more links to stuff I’ve read about this & that might give you more food for thought:

what is intersectional feminism? in USAToday

academic study of intersectional feminism from a student of Denison

video about intersectional feminism on Braless

intersectional feminism vs white feminism in the Chicago Tribune

notes below the cut.

I used a lot of vague language about ‘marginalization other people have that you don’t’ in this post because that goes a lot of ways, and none of those experiences are necessarily comparable as ‘better’ or ‘worse’. they are each unique, though, and each person experiences them uniquely. that’s why the emphasis of intersectional feminism falls on listening to marginalized people, promoting their voices to others, and acting according to what they are saying rather than according to your own wishes or beliefs.

*I used ‘person’ instead of ‘woman’ because there’s a huge variety of people who might be in a situation where they are perceived as a woman or treated as a woman while not being a woman, or treated or perceived as a man while being a woman, and there’s nonbinary people and intersex people and just … a lot being covered here. I feel ‘person’ is insufficient to the meaning but I don’t know what else would be appropriately inclusive and quick.

**in america, some examples of the ‘default’, where deviation (especially in more than one way) creates disadvantages, oppression, and violence: white, male, cissex, perisex, straight & heteronormative, able-bodied, mentally healthy, of average intelligence, neurotypical, monogamous, protestant Christian/agnostic/’rationalist’, English as first/only language, etc.

***’where appropriate’ - imho: this is wherever the marginalized person speaking on their own behalf a) asks you to do it, b) the marginalized person would be endangered (but someone else - you - aren’t), or c) a place where the marginalized person isn’t and/or won’t be respected in speaking for themselves.

for instance: a member of my family voted for Trump. He wouldn’t listen to me about Trump being a rapist & why that’s a reason to distrust him: as a perceived woman, he thought I was speaking based on my own biases. but another cis male member of the family was able to make that family member understand the seriousness and horror I feel about Trump’s treatment of women. (Trump voter has since apologized to me, but it first needed to come from someone he respected already before he could start to respect me.)

and meanwhile, cis white women overwhelmingly voted for Trump - despite all the evidence he never respected women, white or not, and without any regard for - perhaps even because of - his xenophobic and racist platform. (that’s what you get when ‘feminism’ isn’t intersectional.)

#intersectional feminism #unasked for advice #feminism #radical intersectional feminism #which i want to be a thing #racism in america #this is an americentric post #white privilege

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werevulvi · 6 years ago

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I recently made a post saying I'm radfem now. So I thought perhaps I should adress that in a bit more detail. I'll try to not make this post several years long, but it's unavoidably gonna be a big post. This is to give a rough overview of my opinions, for anyone interested in knowing that.

The points I bring up, in the following order: - Patriarchy/oppression of women and girls - Gender/sex - Transgender - Femininity - Sexuality - Female only spaces - Porn industry - Prostitution - BDSM - Reproductive rights and women's rights in general - End notes/wrap up

Patriarchy/oppression of women and girls So I used to be an anti-feminist MRA and thus I didn't believe patriarchy was a thing. It took me a long while and lots of research and observing to see the fault in my ways. Admittedly, I was wrong, and now I know better. Also worth mentioning is the reason I found my way into radfem was because with my detransition I became increasingly gender critical, so if I focus extra on gender/sex opinions that's why.

Gender/sex Women and girls are oppressed in the world because of their sex, and it has nothing to do with "gender identity" and you can't opt out of oppression by transitioning or calling yourself another gender. Gender is a social construct and is just masculinity and femininity, including personality traits that can be called such. Anyone can be masculine or feminine and it doesn't make them the opposite sex or "not real" men/women. Male/female brains is not a thing. You are the sex you were born as. Woman just means adult human female and man just means adult human male.

Transgender Having dysphoria often tells people who have it that them wanting for their bodies to be of the opposite sex is what makes them, on some psychological level, of that sex. Conforming to the gender roles of the opposite sex often alleviates dysphoria cause it helps with passing, but few trans people think that the gender roles is what makes them men/women. It's just a tool to deal with dysphoria. Trans people should absolutely get the medical treatments available for their dysphoria for those who want that. Out of politeness and caring about their dysphoria, I usually refer to trans men as men and use he/him pronouns, etc, and vice versa for trans women. And on occasion I use the word "cis" to refer to people who are not trans but I don't agree with the term. I only ever use it for simplicity and in its simple meaning "not transgender" but I try to avoid it.

Femininity My stance on this might differ from other radfems but what I do definitely agree on here is that it should NOT be forced upon women/girls in society like it clearly is. I appall that and it should not happen. I also see there are lots of harmful stuff about modern femininity that also should be scrutinised. However, I think that femininity at its core can be good if you just know what you're doing, and I think especially femme lesbians seem to have a pretty good grip on that, not just myself. I think very critically about it and do encourage others to do too. I want to eradicate the forcing of femininity and its harmful aspects - but not the femininity itself. And that's actually NOT because I love being femme: it's because I was coerced to be masculine as a child, and that not only harmed me, but also made me realise and understand that femininity is a genuine and essential form of expression for my artistic mind. So, I think I do have pretty good reasons for having the views that I have on that point.

Sexuality Sexual attraction/orientation is sex-based not gender-based. Lesbians are not attracted to males/penis and gay men are not attracted to females/vagina. It's important that definition does not get changed by the trans movement and anyone thinking it's "no big deal" or think that it should be changed is a homophobe. Any male trying to force dick upon lesbians is a horribly gross lesbophobe and no it doesn't make it any better if it's a trans woman. It's very much like just another form of conversion therapy and should not be tolerated. I'm a lesbian, so it matters to me a lot. And on that point I also stand in solidarity with gay men who get to face the same crap from females/trans men. However, I'm half-okay with trans women just calling themselves lesbians as long as they can behave themselves and know they're not actual homosexual females, and vice versa for male-attracted trans men calling themselves gay. Again only because of their dysphoria, and only if they're not acting like homophobes. I'm however NOT okay with trans women invading lesbian spaces, but I'll get back to that point in a bit.

Also I'm really strongly against trans people not disclosing being trans to sex partners. Doesn't matter if they're pre- or post-op or how well they're passing. Trans feeling DON'T get to override "cis" feelings. That might not be a super specific radfem point but I notice transmeds vehemently disagree with me on that point, and it just comes across as very entitled, so yeah.

Female only spaces Are and should be for biological females only. Although I'm slightly lenient on trans women using women's bathrooms because in my own country it doesn't seem to be an issue of men abusing that loophole, but I'm NOT fine with any males using women's locker rooms, abuse victims' support groups, abuse shelters, lesbian spaces, etc. Women need our own spaces away from the male oppressors. And as a survivor or sexual assault and rape who's kinda scared of men, I do very much understand that need. Even though I look too ambiguous due to my ftm transition to get any sort of access to women only spaces, aside from bathrooms, apparently. That's my own fault though, isn't it?

Porn industry Absolutely disgusting, what the hell is going on there?! Kind of. Women and girls are being badly hurt there and it needs to stop. I don't care if that means no one ever gets to ever have porn to watch, people's safety is more important than other people just wanting something sexy to watch. Men's violence on women (in general) is being perpetuated by porn teaching them that women are objects and only there for men's sexual pleasure. And I'm pretty sure it even exacerbated my own internalised misogyny in the past when I was watching a lot of porn and searched for the worst of it. I no longer want to support the porn industry in any way. I made the decision, few weeks ago, to stop watching porn completely and so far so good, although I was close to giving into it a few days ago but didn't. I've got this.

Prostitution I used to want to become a prostitute, actually. Before I came to my senses on that point and realised it was just my traumas speaking for me again. I no longer want that at all, and it makes me feel sick to just think of it. But I read up on it a lot back then. I understand that the entire "sex industry" is directly harmful to the women in it and indirectly harmful to women not in it. I'm all for doing whatever we can to stop it. However, since I read up on it in the past, I'm kinda skeptical that the Nordic Model would be a good solution. It has a lot of issues. As I'm living in a country that has that model implemented (Sweden) and I know that there is a lot of hidden trafficking going on here that cannot be spotted or caught due to the faults of the Nordic Model. According to my own (possibly flawed) research the Australian Model seems to be better at both catching trafficking and making prostitution in general less dangerous for those involved, but by no means is that a perfect model either. I need to learn more about this perhaps, but at the end of the day I'm 100% against any form of prostitution existing.

BDSM I used to be into bdsm and didn't want to see that it's harmful, and basically just a "socially accepted" form of abuse. I used to be into "rapeplay" and a lot of humiliating kinks as the submissive because it let me "repeat" my past traumas. Along with my realisation that I'm a lesbian, I also finally understood the true depth of my traumas and no longer want to engage in anything bdsm or kinks. That has no place in my life anymore. It just kept damaging me more when I needed to heal. That made me understand that there's still abuse involved in bdsm even though it's "consensual" cause how can you make an informed consent to something you don't understand is gonna harm you?

Reproductive rights and women's rights in general I guess this covers the whole "bodily autonomy" thing and I include anything from being able to get birth control and abortions to stopping fgm and child marriages, and much more, in this category. I dunno really what to say here other than of course women and young girls being treated as cattle, abused, mutilated, raped, forced to give birth, forced to marry, etc are very important issues that need to be fixed and that asap. I'd even say such things matter the most to me when it comes to women's rights: having the right to one's own body from the moment that any female human is born. But also, reading up on those really heavy topics gets to me so bad I can't manage it. I get really bad panic attacks and just start sobbing uncontrollably. So for the sake of my own mental health, that's why I don't reblog much of that. But please believe me that is still very important stuff to highlight, talk about and get to the bottom of.

End notes/wrap up All of this and more really stems from the systematic oppression that women are constantly kept under, and I see that "red thread" connecting all these issues to that root. We need to get to the core of those problems (and many more that I didn't bring up here) which is men in general oppressing women in general. So that got me back to where I started, patriarchy. That's a nice wrap up, I think. I tried hard to not make this into a gigantic post, so that's why I left out a lot of details, explanations, my own personal experiences that led me to my opinions, etc. And yes, it's absolutely fine to ask me about my opinions on any of these things, and call me out (preferably with an explanation) if you think it's horse shit and I'll look into it.

#personal #my radfem views #i know its not super comprehensive but i aint got all night #still new to this #and still learning #im a get shit for my views on trans i think but im too fucked up to care anymore

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shaliira · 7 years ago

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The Cloaked Storm: Chapter 23 - Something In The Darkness, Part 1

Coruscant, Old Market Quarter, Old Market Bazaar

Valanthe still wasn’t entirely sure she could trust Vanth fully. Sure, his story made sense and what she was sensing from him wasn’t falsehood, not any more than she would be projecting that could be picked up by another Force user. That kind of falsehood she could easily see past. At least she could when she was in her right mind.

Right now, she didn’t at all feel in her right mind. She felt angry, sad, lost, confused and most of all determined to get to the bottom of this. What she didn’t feel is her usual detached focus. In such times as she hadn’t felt it before...things never went well for her, or those around her. The irony was, Vala was aware of this fact and felt at an even more of a loss as to how to remedy her state.

She took great lengths to cover her appearance, keeping her face hidden under a thick scarf, a hood over her head, her outfit scraggy and in various shades of dull grey. Her lightsaber and blaster were hidden under the tunic-like folds of her over-clothes.

Xanth had also scrapped together a change of clothes, so as to not get immediately recognized by the old man. He had gone ahead of Vala, to scout the place and make sure the man was alone when Valanthe joined them.

It was nearing the end of the day sales and Tomno Sol would soon begin to put his produce back into storage units inside.

It had not been the best day of sales for Tomno, the colder ‘autumn’ air driving away some of his more regular customers. Sometimes the tedium of this life made him want for the old days; blaster in hand flying the space lanes looking for adventure and profit. Of course what did he have to show for it, a fruit stand… well and his health, loyal customers and even a few he could call friends. Not to mention his duty, Tomno might not be a soldier anymore but he still had the Republic.

Looking around the market, Tomno sighed, most customers had gone home for the evening and even many of his fellows had packed up. Running a hand through his salt and pepper hair. The human started to pull crates to store away, a task that was easier said than done considering all amount of fruit and veg.

Vanth took the chance and approached the man, taking hold of one of the crates. “Here, let me help you,” he flashed the man a rather menacing grin.

“I appreciate the sentiment but I think I can…” The man’s words died in the wind as he recognized the scared Weeqay from a few days ago. “What are you doing here?” Tomno hissed, grabbing the crate from the man’s grip and putting it in the back of his stall.

“Came to get some of those peppers.” Harsak grunted as he stepped into Tomno’s shop without invitation and set the crate aside.

“Fresh out, I’m afraid, try the market on level seven hundred.” Holding out his arm, Tomno politely indicated Vanth was free to leave, even as he backed toward the bench where his blaster was hidden. He didn’t know much about this man, just that he wasn’t someone to trust and hopefully that the police wouldn’t look too deep into if he ended up being shot in self-defense.

“Oh no, I desire these particular ones. You sold them to a mutual friend.” Vanth stepped over to the door, but instead of exiting, he waved through it.

It was a signal for Vala to approach. Which she did at a steady pace.

“You remember him, no? Xan?” Harsak continued.

“Can’t say that I do, lots of people order those peppers.” Reaching behind him, Tomno’s fingers grazed along the grip of the small hold-out blaster he kept from the old days.

“That’s interesting, because Xander recommended you to us.” Valanthe spoke as she entered the shop, using the Force to close the door behind her. “Tell me, Tomno Sol, how goes business these days? With the war and all?”

Vanth locked the door and planted himself on it, thick arms crossed and frown on his face.

Jumping at the sound of a voice behind him, Tono was cut off from his weapon and any escape. “People need to eat, I provide.... It pays the rent.” Tomno doubted that he could talk his way out of this, but he had to try. The Weeqay was obviously much stronger and younger than he was, and this strange woman certainly…’felt’ dangerous.

“Xander Night. You are one of his informants. You recently facilitated a meeting between our friend here.” She pointed over her shoulder towards Vanth, “and Night. Not a couple of days ago, in fact. He bought bellassan peppers from you.”

“Yeah? What of it?” Tomno huffed, crossing his arms across his broad chest. “I’ve facilitated a lot of meetings over the years and probably sold him as many peppers.” It seemed pointless to lie, both of the assailants having full knowledge of his other activities.

Vala’s eyes darkened as she glared at him. Her tone, however was ice. “He’s dead.”

She could sense the man trying to lie his way out of this, but it wasn’t clear yet why.

“Died the night he returned from this place.” Vanth supplied, his anger seeping through in his tone.

Holding up his hands defensively at the angry man, Tomno did not want to be on the receiving end from either of them. “Whoa hold on a second there Pal, what do you mean he’s dead?”

“I mean expired, sleeping with the maggots, stone cold...dead.” Vanth replied.

Lie. Tomno was worried about himself, not shocked.

“Anything you want to tell us?” Valanthe took a step forward.

“What you think I had something to do with this?” Tomno threw back at the pair. “I’ve worked with the man for years!”

Lie.

“Just now you all but claimed you barely knew him.” Valanthe stepped closer, her fists balling as she tried to keep herself from lashing out at him, though her rising ire and anger at his lies were making it very difficult.

“What I’m just supposed to start talking to the first person that barges into my shop, dropping a name that not many would know!?” Tomno was more than a little agitated at this point, the pair’s accusations having him on the defensive. “How am I supposed to know who you are… I did tell this one not to contact me again.” Pointing over his shoulder at the Weeqay, Tomno had fully turned to face Valanthe.

Lie.

“Does the name Riis tell you anything?” In all honesty she doubted it would, she’d never met this man before. This man so keen to hide something. She also doubted that Xan would have spoken of her to him.

“It doesn’t, I suppose that’s someone else I’m supposed to have killed?” He asked, arms still crossed defensively across his chest.

There was something about the way he said it. As if he both confirmed it and asked the question at the same time.

“Did you kill Xander Night?” Valanthe asked in an icy tone, her eyes darkening, muting to a thick, brown shade.

“I don’t make it a habit to kill people who serve the Republic!” Tomno’s tone shifted, aggression, cutting through the annoyance. “I may not wear the uniform anymore, but I haven’t forgotten where my loyalties lie.”

Lie.

“Your feelings betray you.” As she spoke her hand shot out and pushed through the Force, slamming Tomno into the wall. For now, she simply held him pinned. “You are hiding something from us. Something to do with Night. What is it?”

“I’m not hiding anything you psycho!” Tomno yelled at the woman as she held him against the wall, a crushing sensation making it hard to breath. Struggling against the invisible restraint, it became quickly apparent that he wasn’t going anywhere.

“See,” she gave a push against his chest through the Force, “your every excuse so far was either a lie or skewing of fact. Like I said, your feelings betray you. This could go a lot smoother if you told us what we needed to know. If not, this will only get worse.”

Harsak Vanth watched quietly as the green woman exercised her power on him. Hells, are you one of the dark ones too, Riis?

“I don’t...know what you’re... talking about!” The man struggled out, the crushing force keeping him from moving almost entirely. “I didn’t, kill him!”

Valanthe closed her eyes and focused. Her mind slammed into his with no small amount of violence. She was running out of time and out of patience.

“I can sense when you’re lying, Tomno…” Valanthe pressed.

The human cried out as he felt the press against his thoughts, the woman pushing past his mental barriers roughly. “I’M NOT….LYING!!!” He yelled through gritted teeth, his memories starting to flash before his ‘eyes’.

“Riis!”

“See I believe you when you say that you are loyal to the Republic. But I don’t believe you had nothing to do with Night’s death. Your feelings are hiding something.” Vala leaned her head to the right as she spoke, “what are you hiding?”

“GET HER OFF ME!!! SHE’S CRAZY!!!” Tomno yelled, barely able to move his head to look at the Weequay. He could feel the pressure in his mind, it was like someone was drilling into him.

Valanthe’s eyes grew slowly golden, “I gave you the solution, Sol. All you have to do, is take it.” She pushed deeper against his mind. There was a barrier there, one someone who was not using the Force could not sustain, not for this long.

Which meant…

“Who told you to do it?” Valanthe changed tact, stepping closer to him.

“Riis!” Vanth called again, then as she asked, he grew confused. “What?”

“No one!” He yelled back, still struggling both physically and in his mind.

Lie.

Valanthe pushed harder mentally and physically. “I start breaking bones next. Or should I break your mind first?”

At this downright menacing tone Vanth took a step towards Valanthe unsure if he should tear her away or not. What in all hells was she doing?

Tomno let out a cry of pain as the woman pushed against his mind. “WHY. DO. YOU. CARE!? HE WAS A TRAITOR!!”

Her grip eased, “go on…”

A traitor! How dare you?! Vanth was now beside Vala. “What do you mean he was a traitor?”

Taking a deep breath, finally the weight from his chest being lifted. “He betrayed the Republic, sold the information I gave him to the CIS!”

A momentary flash of intense anger coursed through Valanthe as she tightened her grip on him before she realized he was telling the truth. Or at least he believed he did.

“Where did you get this information?”

“I was told and shown holo-tapes.” The man coughed several times still getting his voice back. “Showed him for what he really was.”

A believed truth.

Though, if he believed it and the wall in his head had anything to do with that belief...could it have been planet there? Or did he actually believe that Xander had betrayed the Republic.

“Who showed you this? What holo-tapes?” Vanth pressed.

“Malenta…human, said she worked with Intelligence.” Tomno’s expression slipped when she brought the woman up.

Malenta. Malenta. Valanthe could not recall the name. But then again it could have been someone new in the last few months. Valanthe looked over at Harsak, eyebrow raised. The man shrugged at her.

“What was on the tapes, Sol?” Valanthe refocused on the man still pinned to the wall.

“Him transferring data to CIS sources and meeting with their agents.” Tomno growled out, disgusted at the images. All the years he’d worked with the man, all the information he’d passed along…

Vala felt angry then, both at the insinuations as well as the fact she could not discern the truth in this moment. She could feel Vanth getting increasingly angry and frustrated as well. Without a conscious filter, she fed off of the anger of both of them.

“You lie!” The statement was a gamble, she knew this much. “When did this Malenta give you this information?” Her eyes glowed amber still.

“She showed me a few weeks ago. First the data transfer records, I didn’t want to believe it, so she showed me a meeting.” Tomno grumbled looking away from the pair, the woman’s eyes were unnerving to say the least.

“Did you tell her about the meeting you last had? About Vanth and the database?” Vala’s anger brimmed further, she pushed against him stronger, “I suggest you tell the truth.”

“Didn’t need to, or didn’t think I need to. She said something was coming and then he showed up.” Tomno, tipped his head toward Vanth. “I assumed it was him.”

Something didn’t track in that statement. Had whoever it was suddenly gone sloppy?

“What does this Malenta look like?” Valanthe changed tact again, the glow in her eyes dimming though her anger was still there, writhing, coiling. Part of her wanted to end his sorry existence and she so easily could. The other part knew she needed to milk the walking clue first. Afterwards….

“Human, young…” Tomno thought back, Malenta was hard to forget, the image in his head was perfectly clear. “Brown hair, pretty… uh thin, but attractive.”

You got honeytrapped? A thought screamed through her head. What he described was a classic case of a female agent working a male target who had such preference.

This caused Valanthe to push against him and into his mind further.

“You got played you karkin’ di’kut!” She growled.

“Riis!” Vanth placed a hand on her shoulder as she bore into Sol. “RIIS!”

“You kill a good man on the word and images of a honey trap!” What made her even more angry was the fact that she did the exact same thing when they were needing to get the codes from Jax Rath in Balmorra. “On the words of a woman you just karkin’ met!”

Her eyes glowed again. She needed an image, a better image.

“I DIDN’T JUST MEET HER!!!” He yelled, the pain suddenly returning in his mind as she once again delved in. “SHE CAME BY FOR WEEKS!!”

Valanthe increased the pressure, both inward and outward, her anger boiling over. “YOU.GOT.PLAYED! You got karkin’ played!” The anger practically consumed her entire being and mind.

“YOU’RE THE ONE BEING PLAYED!!” Tomno could no longer see them, his vision had gone blurry as she pushed deeper into his mind.

Harsak could see the woman was clearly not in the right state of mind. She was going to kill this man before they got more information from him. He’d seen Force users go dark in his time under cover. This one was plunging dangerously into the dark pit.

So he stepped behind her, wrapped both of his strong arms around her and pulled her to the side. “Riis, stop it, you are killing him! He’s no use to us dead.”

The hold on Tomno broke as Vanth pulled her away. There was something about the action that broke through Vala’s blinding fury.

“We need something tangible, Riis.” He spoke into her ear, “listen to me, Riis. You are better than this.”

“You know nothing about me, Vanth.” Vala growled as she only put up half the fight against him. Something inside her listened.

“I know Night wouldn’t have trusted you if you weren’t on the right side of things.” Vanth countered. “He’s got to have some sort of surveillance in this place. He’s got to have her image somewhere. Unless she’s that good and she erased all traces of her.”

“Where’s your surveillance equipment?” Vanth looked over at the man slumped against the wall.

“Back...backroom, code is thirty-three-seventy-one.” Tomno was still trying to catch his breath and get a sense of himself. His head felt strange, like something had come apart.

“Go, get in there. I’ll keep an eye on him.” Vanth released Valanthe.

Her eyes had stopped glowing, though the colour was still a strange kind of brown, rather than her usual lilac. Vanth couldn’t help but wonder at that.

Later. He thought to himself.

“Don’t worry...he’s too weak to get an upper hand on me. Go.” He pulled out his blaster, though he wasn’t quite certain if he’d have to use it on her instead.

Valanthe glared at him, “I’m not going to hurt you, Vanth.” Her voice came out crackled, almost laden with guilt.

I don’t know, Riis. You looked pretty out of control just before. He thought to himself.

Shaking her head, Valanthe stepped into the back room, blinking. How had she gotten so angry? How did she allow herself to go that far?

The sight of the door made her focus. She input the code and stepped into the small room.

“When was the last time he saw her?” She called as she sat behind the console of the computer.

Vanth looked at Tomno, back in the main room. “When was the last time you saw Malenta?”

“I don’t… I don’t remember…” The man groaned out, rubbing his head trying to clear the webs. “Maybe a week… week and a half ago...”

“Week and a half to a week!” Vanth called.

Valanthe found access to the recordings and punched in a timeframe. One by one images warped and zoomed past her eyes. She thought she caught a flash of white at one point but the image rewinded further too fast. When she reached the start of the timeframe she pressed play and watched. At first, there was nothing suspicious. Day to day business.

Until eight days ago a woman came into the shop. Tall, skinny, pale, almost white in skin tone. A series of pale, somewhat darker than her skin tattoos graced the sides of her dark lips and the sides of her head.

Rattataki… Valanthe thought, her eyes glued to the screen. She’s…?

Tomno Sol had described a completely different woman. So why was this Rattataki here? One thing that worried Valanthe however was a confirmation of her fear. Whoever this person was they could use the Force. She was clearly performing hand movements that indicated use of the Force and they way she spoke to him, she was clearly influencing him.

So why had he described someone completely different?

“Ask him how his perfect woman looks?” Valanthe called again.

Vanth frowned, “what?”

“Do it!”

The Weequay looked at Sol again, “you heard her. Describe your perfect woman.”

“Um well she was… it was so long ago…” But it wasn’t, it was only a week ago… then why did it feel like more? “Umm she had… has long flowing hair, brown… a little pointed nose, freckles… I loved her freckles and her smile… you should have seen it...it was the only thing that made my day mean something.” Tomno sighed. “I left the service for that smile…”

Vanth shook his head and sighed, “you get all that?”

“Yeah. So why do I see another woman on the recording? Completely different from what he describes?” Valanthe’s voice came, almost devoid of emotion, laced with curiosity and confusion.

“What?” Harsak looked between Tomno and the door.

“Bring him in here.”

Vanth wasted no time and stepped over to Sol. Reaching down, the Weequay hauled the man to his feet and dragged him into the small room. Valanthe sat there looking at the screen, her arms crossed on her chest.

“I have this woman being seductive and intimate with him. But no woman matching his description.” She pointed at the screen with a finger.

Vanth pushed Sol roughly and pointed him towards the screen.

“But that…. That’s her, that’s my Ariaai…” Tomno said, looking between the two confused by the whole thing. The woman on screen looked exactly like the one who’d come by, the one he’d fallen for as a young man…

“No, that’s a pale white woman who’s doing Gods know what to your head.” Vanth grabbed the back of Tomno’s head. “Seriously, look!”

Force persuasion with a mix of honey trapping? Valanthe kept glancing between Tomno and the screen.

“Wha...what do you mean? That, that’s Ariaai! I’d know her any...anywhere…” Tomno’s voice trailed off as the image of this woman he loved was replaced by a pale, bald head. He couldn’t comprehend what was happening, he clearly could see Ariaai in his head! Or he could a moment ago. Letting out a whimper, he looked between the other two and the screen. “What’s happening to me? Why...why can’t I remember right?”

“Looks like you too got played, Sol.” Vanth commented, watching the man they just tortured and threatened break down in front of them.

Valanthe gave Tomno a broken look. Guilt was clearly written in her eyes and in her features. She had just practically tortured a victim of a nefarious plot. She had let her anger and her grief entirely get the better of her as she detected his own deceit. A deceit he wasn’t aware of.

How could she have fallen so far?

Swallowing her shame momentarily, she spoke in a cracked tone. “You only remembered parts of your encounters, didn’t you?

“I… I don’t know, it was so clear before…” His voice had gotten small, confusion and fear had taken over. “I thought… what have I done? Did I, did I really kill him? Are you sure?” Looking at the Mirialan who’d so recently held him against the wall, he hoped that it was a mistake or that they weren’t sure.

“He was dead within hours of meeting with you two,” Valanthe pointed between the two men, “he was making dinner with those blasted peppers of yours. I need to get in there and look at the autopsy reports, but they say it was a heart attack. The GAR and RMOI don’t think it is...not with all the fanfare they brought out for it.”

Tomno was absolutely horrified by what he was hearing. How could he have done something like that, Xander was his friend… his comrade. “No this can't be right, there has to be some kind of mistake!?” He was practically pleading with Valanthe, hands grasping the end of her long black coat.

“Hold on…” Vanth was focused on the image, the movement of the bald woman’s lips. “Do you remember what she said here?”

“I…” The man looked up at the screen watching this strange woman speak to him, seduce him. “I don’t remember… WHY CAN’T I REMEMBER!?” He could remember the feelings when he thought it was Ariaai and before he could remember their conversations… Now he’d lost it, no idea what had gone on.

“This woman, whoever she is...she has influenced you,” Valanthe began, however she half choked in her own shame as she continued, “through the Force.”

Vanth heard the change in her tone and let out a breath he didn’t really realize he’d been holding. Perhaps there was hope for this girl.

“What like a Jedi? Why would they do this? Jedi are supposed to protect the Republic, people like me and Xander…” Tomno was so lost, he couldn’t even comprehend what was real anymore.

“Not a Jedi, no. They would not do this.” Vala shook her head. “There are others who use the Dark to suit their needs. Like her...whoever she is.”

Tomno didn’t understand, he’d only ever heard of Jedi that could do these kinds of things.. Now she was saying there were others, it was too much. “So what, what happens now?”

“Now I go find out who this woman is and you…” Vala swallowed hard, “you will present your judgement once I find this person and bring her to justice. Once we know who ordered the hit on Xan and why, I will return and accept whatever retribution for the way I treated you earlier.”

“I…” He didn’t know what to say, if anything Tomno felt he was the one deserving of judgement. He’d betrayed everything he held most dear and this woman was waiting for his judgement? What a twisted galaxy they lived in now. “How can I judge you? I killed my colleague, a friend… betrayed the Republic… and you freed me…”

“I have also tortured you out of pure anger. I must answer for that. Because I can never repay the pain I caused you.” Vala countered.

Tomno shook his head, stretching out to use the wall of the store room to stand up. Despite the intense pain he’d felt moments before, now that the woman wasn’t pushing on his mind it was almost like it had never happened. “Maybe so, but I can’t even remember the crime I committed, I don’t have to live with it… you do. When any of us do something we regret, remembering is usually the worst part. You don’t need me to add to it…”

Valanthe said nothing, just nodded. How did she let things go so far?

Harsak sighed, “alright enough of the simpering pity party. Are we going after this schutta or what?”

Valanthe nodded firmly, taking a deep breath. “I need to go talk to the Jedi, see if they know anything.”

Jedi Temple, sometime later

There was a strange buzz in the air as she entered the ancient halls so soon again. When she called the Temple to arrange an appointment, there was reluctance to arrange it, but she finally was given a time.

Riis did her best to keep her calm about her, lest too many questions were asked. Considering, however, that she was going to meet with Mace and Yoda, she wasn’t so sure her calm facade would fool the two men.

She paced the meeting room, her fingers subconsciously rubbing the little holo-projector, mind going over various clues she’d gathered at Tomno’s. It was in that pacing state that the tall dark and the small green man found her.

“Exercise, you are catching up on, young Riis?” Yoda asked as he and Master Windu entered one of the Temple’s many meeting rooms. Even for the old master who’d seen thousands of Jedi come and go, it was strange for him, seeing Valanthe here but not as one of them.

Valanthe couldn’t help a smile, “Masters,” she greeted them with a traditional bow. “I apologize for taking you away from your duties, especially in the light of our earlier meeting. However, I require assistance, if you are able to provide?”

“Provide help we will, if we can.” Yoda said returning the bow, glad to see that Valanthe had not forsaken all her teachings. “Troubled, you are. Explain, what occupies your thoughts.” Climbing up on one of the meditation cushions, Yoda waited for the other two to join him.

Mace motioned for Valanthe to sit first, which she did fluidly, crossing her legs.

“Masters, I’ve come across a Force user that has been on Coruscant for at least some time, and she...from what I can tell she is dabbling dangerously close to the Dark Side, or she has entirely fallen, I am not sure.” Valanthe began, feeling quite the hypocrite at the moment.

“What has this individual done to come to your attention, Riis?” Mace asked, his fingers steepled together as he watched her contain herself.

“She has interfered with certain events, which resulted in deaths.” Valanthe knew she had to give them something, yet not tip her hand. For all she knew the Jedi could unknowingly tip GAR’s hand that she had been snooping.

She extended her palm forward with the holoprojector and turned it on, the image of the pale woman and Tomno appearing. Valanthe played the recording for the two Jedi then.

“Operates without our knowledge, this woman does, here on Coruscant no less.” Sharing a glance with Mace, Yoda focused on the woman in the holo image. “Resembles she does, a Dark Force user, encountered we have.”

Valanthe frowned, “Master?”

“By all records, she used to be a Padawan learner under Master Ky Narec.” Mace supplied, “this was long before the outbreak of the War. We had thought her dead initially.”

“I am not familiar with Master Narec.” Vala looked between the two men. “Who is she?”

“A Watchman he was, Asajj Ventress he took as a Padawan, before his death.” Yoda said with a sad shake of his green head. Master Narec had been a promising Jedi and the reports he sent back of his progress with the young Dathomiri were encouraging, had he not been killed, she’d have probably been a great Jedi.

“Who’s she working for now, do you know?” Valanthe had a sinking feeling they knew very well whom she was working for. She also had a feeling she was really going to hate the answer.

“Dooku.” Yoda said simply, his large eyes narrowing a bit as the man’s name left his green lips. His gaze softening a moment later as the elder Master sighed. “Assassin and Commander she has become, for the Confederacy. Fought her many times, Master Kenobi, Knight Skywalker and Padawan Tano have.”

She had been right. Valanthe sighed as Yoda spoke. “Thank you, Master.”

“May I ask how she has come under your radar, Riis?” Mace looked over at the young woman, his large, dark eyes as calculating and studying as ever.

Valanthe looked over at him, wanting to tell the truth, but with recent events, she was loathe to confide even in the two honorable men before her. At this point, the Mirialan deemed it too risky.

“Cameras caught her interfering with one of our cases.” She replied matter of factly, or as best as she could to sound that way.

Mace raised an eyebrow, but said nothing.

“The Jedi, this case will involve?” Yoda asked, his expression mirroring Mace’s. Technically anything involving Ventress, involved the Jedi. But Yoda wasn’t going to push too hard, the Jedi had enough to worry about.

Valanthe shook her head, “if I find her, I will notify you. But at the moment it’s a GAR/RMOI matter.” She said.

“Hmm very well, if support you need, we shall provide.” Yoda offered, hoping that perhaps Riis was onto something.

Then, she felt it. A deep, stabbing pain in the core of her soul. Fear, anger, grief, despair all bundled into one. It was a very strange sensation, as if it was coming from far away, and hurtling towards them at hyper speed.

Had something happened? She hadn’t felt something this strong in a while. There were no indications something was wrong at the Temple when she arrived.

Guilt, fury, confusion.

Where was it coming from?

A giant sense of loss.

Valanthe blinked, letting out a deep breath. An image of a planet torn in half flashed in her mind for the briefest of moments.

Lola Sayu.

Spirits, how could she have forgotten? The team. The briefing. In her state and distracted by Xan’s death, she had completely forgotten about Obi-Wan, Anakin, Echo, Fives and the others and the rescue attempt of Master Piell.

Force, she had gone down further than she thought.

“Masters, do you feel that?”

“A disturbance in the Force…” Yoda said grimacing at the sensation through the Force. “Gone wrong, something has with the rescue.”

Vala’s eyes widened, but Mace interrupted. “We had to send in Master Plo with additional troopers.”

“What?”

Fives, Echo. Obi-Wan. Spirits…

“We can discuss this later, Riis. We must get to the Communications tower.” Mace was already in his feet heading towards the door.

Valanthe wanted to run after him but chose to stay back with Yoda. “Master, what happened?”

“Their escape, detected it was, the shuttle destroyed.” Yoda said as he too got up from the small seat, calling his hover chair so they could also head to the Communications tower. “Many casualties there have been, among our Jedi there seems to have been as well.”

Valanthe let out a deep breath as they moved into the hallway, “do we know who?”

“Be sure we cannot, one strong in the Force, but that is all.” Yoda’s gentle shake of his head belied his frustration. “For some time, answers, we may not have.”

#yoda #mace windu #jedi #jedi temple #the citadel #rescue #even piell #jedi master #clone troopers #clone trooper fives #clone trooper echo #captain rex #commander cody #mirialan #investigation #star wars the clone wars #arc trooper fives #arc trooper echo

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whovianfeminism · 7 years ago

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Whovian Feminism Reviews “World Enough and Time”

“World Enough and Time” is an episode of Doctor Who that is very self-aware – of its own history, of its own tropes and cliches, and of the community that follows this show so passionately. This results in some truly delightful fan-service that lightens what might otherwise be an unbearably grim and horrifying episode. But that self-awareness falters when it comes to the treatment of Bill Potts and her fans, who were handed a brutal episode that came right to the edge of fridging the first lesbian companion and second black woman companion. With one episode left in the season, there’s still time to pull out a happy ending for Bill. But I’m not sure it will make up for everything Bill and her fans will have been through to get her there.

Even though the end of this episode left me feeling conflicted, I sure as hell enjoyed the ride. Steven Moffat has always been good at creating stories that creatively play with time travel, and parking a massive spaceship right next to a black hole is such a fun way to mess with time. Director Rachel Talalay perfectly paces the transition between the two time zones, creating a story that flows from one timeline to the next instead of giving us narrative whiplash. But what she’ll probably be most remembered for in this episode is making the Mondassian Cybermen truly, bone-chillingly scary. There was always something eerie about their sing-song voices and cold logic. But Talalay brings the body horror to the forefront of their genesis, emphasizing their unceasing pain and letting the audience’s unease build steadily until it’s almost unbearable by the time Bill is converted.

But while the Mondassian Cybermen loom over this episode, this story is firmly about the Doctor and the Master’s friendship and enmity. The Doctor’s test isn’t just an opportunity for Missy to escape her prison in the Vault. It’s the culmination of nearly fifty years of conflict between these two characters. At one point or another, each has believed that the other can be convinced to see the universe as they do. Now the Doctor gets to see if he’s right and if Missy can really be reformed.

Missy is going along with the Doctor … sort of. She’s not actively trying to burn everything down, but she’s definitely going to do things her own way. And if she’s going to endure this exercise, she’s going to poke fun at the mythos the Doctor has created for himself. She calls the companions the “disposables” and names them “Exposition” and “Comic Relief,” which can be read both as a commentary on the Doctor and a meta commentary on the show itself. There’s even a long bit about whether he’s called “The Doctor” or “Doctor Who,” a reference to the insufferably long-running argument in fan circles about how to refer to the character. (The answer is that both are fine; Missy cheekily tells us to “check our screens,” reminding us that in the Classic series, the character was named “Dr. Who” in the credits!)

In contrast, John Simm stands out as the quintessential Master. His portrayal here is a more toned-down version of the Master from the Russell T. Davies years, and he’s leaned hard into the Classic Master tropes. He’s got the beard and the high-collared black jacket. He spends most of this episode disguised in a rubber mask. He even calls Bill “my dear.” Get some hypnosis and the TCE in the next episode and he’ll have checked off all the boxes. I should’ve figured out who he was much earlier in the episode, but John Simm’s acting and prosthetics were so good that I have to admit I didn’t figure out that Razor was the Master until the moment that he snuck in on Missy (and there was definitely a lot of impressed swearing once I finally realized what had happened).

As wonderful as he is, Simm isn’t just there to provide fan-service. He’s also there to encourage Missy’s worst impulses. He’s the devil on her shoulder, their mutual Id – almost like their Valeyard, if you’ll accept the analogy. He reminds her of all the distrust and anger and betrayal they’ve built up against the Doctor. And if the trailer for the next episode is any hint, it looks like he’ll be encouraging her more violent impulses. The Doctor wanted to test Missy to see if she was genuinely reforming herself, but now that test will happen while her previous regeneration is deliberately driving a wedge between her and the Doctor.

And Bill is just another body caught in the crossfire.

Before I dig into Bill’s conversion, I want to start off with one caveat. This is only the first part of a two-part story. I don’t know what ultimately will happen to Bill, and whether or not the next episode will cast this one in a different light. However, I think it is still valid to examine and critique this episode based on the information we have so far. This episode wanted to leave us with feelings of shock and horror for a week, so it’s valid to examine those feelings and the communities they impact the hardest. And regardless of Bill’s ultimate fate in the next episode, it is valid to examine whether the events that took place in this episode were problematic.

I would argue that they were. Although Bill isn’t dead, this episode goes right to the edge of fridging her. She has practically no agency in this episode, and everything that happens to her is in service to someone else’s story. She is shot and converted into a Cyberman to further the conflict between the Doctor and the Master. Everything that happens to her is done so we can explore the Doctor’s feelings – his guilt and pain over pressuring Bill into this situation, his conflict over giving the Master yet another chance, his struggle to forgive Missy after what her previous regeneration has done. This isn’t about Bill, her choices, or her story. Hell, she didn’t even want to be on that ship. Arguing about whether or not we can count what happens to her as fridging because she isn’t actually dead feels a bit like a technicality. She is still violent, graphically harmed for her male protagonist’s story.

It doesn’t help that “World Enough And Time” has some uncomfortable parallels with the Series 8 finale “Death in Heaven,” where another black companion, Danny Pink, is also converted into a Cyberman. Danny was another casualty in the conflict between the Doctor and the Master. And his death and conversion weren’t really about him or his story either. It was about the Doctor’s discomfort with soldiers, and it was about Clara’s guilt over having treated him poorly. Danny does reclaim some of his agency in the end, so perhaps there is still some hope for Bill. But this is now the second time that a black companion has been converted into a Cybeman to further the conflict between the Doctor and the Master.

It’s also worth noting the level of graphic violence involved with Bill’s near-death and conversion. Plenty of companions have died or had horrible things done to them. Moffat is particularly fond of making monsters out of his companions; Rory became an Auton, a Clara echo is converted into a Dalek. But seeing a horrible burnt hole through Bill’s chest and her slow, piecemeal conversion into a Cyberman is truly on another level. I had to think back to some of the things that the Sixth Doctor’s companion Peri suffered through to find any examples that gave me the same visceral reaction – and those are moments you really don’t want to be compared with.

This is a drama and science fiction show, and there’s always been a certain level of risk when companions travel with the Doctor. We were meant to be horrified by what happened to Bill. But the people who were always going to feel this moment the hardest were the most marginalized and underrepresented in this fandom – queer women and women of color. Women of color have had so few non-white companions on Doctor Who to identify with, so obviously this moment would be felt particularly hard. And this would also be especially hard for queer women, who have faced a recent surge in violent deaths of queer characters, largely to further the stories of white, cis, straight protagonists.

The great irony, of course, is that this episode spends a great deal of time cheerfully showing off how self-aware of fandom it is. There’s fan-service galore in this story … just not for the fans who were invested in Bill’s character. And our standards were already set so low. I would’ve been happy if she came out at the end of this season alive and whole. I would’ve given bonus points if she was happy and with a girlfriend.

I don’t think Bill was shot or converted because of any particular animus or prejudice against her character. There was a story that they wanted to tell between the Doctor and the Master, and what happened to Bill was necessary to further that story. I think it just shows the carelessness with which her character was handled. It’s all well and good to represent a black lesbian woman on TV, but that comes with a certain amount of responsibility. And even if this is all magically undone by the end of the next episode, nothing will erase how Bill’s pain and suffering was used to further the conflict between the Doctor and the Master. And nothing will erase the sight of Bill with a hole through her chest or crying in pain beneath the Cyberman mask from the memories of women of color and queer fans.

#doctor who #world enough and time #series 10 #reviews #bill potts #missy #the master

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trisockatops · 7 years ago

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Teens are getting queerer. According to a recent trend-forecasting report by J. Walter Thompson Innovation Group, 13- to 20-year-olds (known as Generation Z) are even more sexually fluid than millennials—while 65 percent of millennials identify as exclusively heterosexual, only 48 percent of Generation Z does. The "trend" is unsurprising—increased legal protection, social acceptance, and media visibility of the LGBTQ community have afforded more opportunities for queer people to love in the open. That being said, according to the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs, a national advocacy group for local LGBTQ communities, 2016 was the deadliest year on record for LGBTQ folks, and that's not counting the 49 victims of the Pulse nightclub massacre.

As the purview of queerness expands and the need for political solidarity and resistance against LGBTQ violence becomes all the more necessary, how can we think critically and compassionately about desire, identity, and labels? I talked to Suzy Exposito, Ales Kot, McKenzie Wark, Whitney Mallet, Davey Davis, and Javier Nunez Cespedes, a group of individuals who deal with issues of identity in their personal and professional lives, about love with or without labels.

Ana Cecilia Alvarez: What's your relationship to questions of desire and identity?

Suzy: I am a bisexual woman in a long-term relationship with a bisexual man. At this point in my life, I refuse to date straight people. In my experience, they just don't understand certain fundamental things about my friends and me. That said, I could generally say the same about monosexual people. I have been on dates with cis lesbians and felt a similar lack of common ground. Because I wouldn't "pick a side," my sexual identity was always in flux to them and not to be trusted. I don't think my sexual orientation is in flux at all!

Ales: Before people used the word "queer" to describe me, they called me "weird." But when I moved to Prague and lived on my own for the first time, I slept with girls and boys, and had threesomes and group sex. I realized that people would have these impositions on what it means to be queer for them. I didn't want to narrow it down too much. If someone asked, I'd tell them I'm bisexual. Of course, I could see many people judging the shit out of me. But, even though I pass as a straight dude, the fact of the matter is that I am a fluid sex monster.

McKenzie: I am somebody who passes for a straight person. I am reluctant to be a spokesperson for queerness because I get to avoid all of the difficulties that are involved in that. I don't advertise, but if people ask, I'll them that I've had sex with men, and I will again.

Javier: I'm a transgender mixed-race Latino who identifies as bisexual. I like to joke that I've identified with literally every letter in LGBTQ at some point.

Ana: Has identifying—or not—as queer resolved anything for you? Or how has it complicated things?

Javier: Part of the beauty of "queer" is that it doesn't have a real definition and that it's open-ended, but that also can be a major drawback to it. By not having a concrete definition, people can use it any way they want, and it can and definitely has been co-opted. Also "queer" doesn't really say anything about someone's sexuality. When someone tells me they identify as either gay, lesbian, or bisexual, I have a better idea of who they date. To me, "queer" has always had radical anti-oppression trans-inclusive meaning behind it, but it's clearly not the definition everyone uses.

Whitney: I guess I would reluctantly identify as queer. I don't think of queer as an essentialist identity. It's about identifying with certain politics. It is a decision of what community I want to call my community. People still ask me if I am gay or straight. Sometimes I think, maybe it's on the way, maybe by the time I'm 30 I'll be gay. Or I'll always be slutty. In life, we're always becoming, so it's fine.

Davey: The amazing thing about being able to come out and find a name for yourself as a queer person is that you feel like you fought for it. My partner and I have both had family members who completely rejected us. So it's this thing that I've fought for, it's my identity, it's who I am—you get defensive and protective with it. And so I can see people's kneejerk reaction, Oh, are they really [queer]?The more compassionate me, and the part of me that has been in that position, knows that's bullshit, to be like, Oh, they're not really [queer]. And as much as we fought for our identities, at the same time, identity is fluid, and fluidity is challenging for most people. Even if you are gender fluid or your sexuality is fluid, labels are, by definition, rigid.

Ana: To me, labels seem imperfect, at times flattening, but politically necessary. Sometimes we need solidarity and shared identities. What do you think?

McKenzie: It's crucial to remember that there are a lot of men who sleep with other men that do not think they are gay. They aren't in the closet or in denial. They just have different categories. Some people don't think having sex with men is an identity. It's an act, and you might have other acts you do and other identities.

Davey: When I had just come out, I had an instinct to taxonomize: "I am a femme boy." But I've moved away from that because I've lived in the world long enough as a gender-nonconforming woman that visibility isn't exciting anymore. I've realized that being visible isn't that great. It's pretty scary, and most people outside of your community think you're gross, and it affects your chances of getting a job. Foucault said that visibility is a trap. We all want to be seen and understood and be known for what we are, but unfortunately, if what you are is queer or bisexual, they will hate you.

Ana: Visibility is a trap! Either you're legible in mainstream culture—you pass—yet you aren't seen as queer in queer communities, or you're visibly queer, and thereby a target for homophobic and transphobic violence.

Suzy: Visibility makes all the difference in how you experience queerness. Visibility makes you more vulnerable to attack. And it's a threat that not all queer people face equally. I'm a cis femme woman with long hair, and men harass me all day for being a woman, but absolutely no one knows I'm queer unless I'm with someone who more visibly is. On the other hand, my partner is a drag performer and very gender fluid, but on most days he presents masculine for his safety. On days when we're both femme, we're much more prone to harassment. Not everyone's queer presentation is so conditional, though, so we have to be mindful about how much space our voices take up and which experiences are simply not ours to claim.

Javier: Disclosing being trans or bi is a choice I can make every day. What I can't choose is walking out of the house every day as a Latino man. I experience way more gender-based violence (mostly from the NYPD) in that way than I ever did before I started medically transitioning. It's something I wish I'd been prepared for. It seems like the people wrapped up with visibility around their sexuality are cis white people. It feels like a luxury that people of color and a lot of trans people do not have. I just want to go out in the world and not be worried about being attacked or killed. I don't care about the rest.

Ana: One way I've been trying to think about this is by shifting questions of queer authenticity—is someone really queer or not?—to queer accountability. Are there certain actions or values we can hold one another accountable for as members of a community?

Ales: I ask, How can I encourage a sense of safety around myself and my home? How can I contribute my own energy? On the most immediate level, I think about just listening. I think just listening to people and not comparing or trying to place them is crucial.

There is a level of performative allyship and people trying to ride on the wave of a higher social consciousness more than they actually care for others. I don't know what to do with that except to be sure that I don't do it.

Whitney: I think there are moments when checking is important. I was at my next-door neighbor's New Year's party, and there was a moment where I noticed there were a lot of straight people there. It's a predominantly gay and trans space, and I think it's worth thinking about how you literally are taking up space at parties. There was a line, and at a certain point, other people couldn't get in, and for some of the people, that's the only party that's welcoming for them.

Davey: This reminds me of who gets to be at pride. I do think straight people need to think three or four or five times about whether they should go to some queer event, even if other queers are bringing them. But, if the ultimate goal is liberation of some kind from white cis hetero imperialist Western patriarchy, it can't come down to "make sure there are no heteros at the party." Probably, straight people shouldn't be at pride, but if you're the kind of straight person who's going to march with us, and protect us, and work with us, we can work together on the larger political goal of liberation.

McKenzie: When you get to middle age, it's just not that big of a deal anymore. I'm into this or that, and I'm going to go and get it with whoever is up for it. It's so much easier. I get why it was important in my 20s and 30s, but now I am not worried about if I am or am not this or that queer being now. I'll just go find my friends.

My favorite quotes from this that I just want to emphasize:

Davey: And as much as we fought for our identities, at the same time, identity is fluid, and fluidity is challenging for most people. Even if you are gender fluid or your sexuality is fluid, labels are, by definition, rigid.

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