#transmasc discourse

[lord-radish]

imagine thinking that trans men are inherently bad or evil or predatory on the basis of gendered privilege and societal power structures. cringe

[carusocarousel]

I really need to get this out of my system.

For the last eight months since October 7th happened, a lot of known transmasc/trasandrophobia blogs have been getting called out for their, at "best" apathy and at worst, pro-zionist stances. This isn't the only reason they've been in the spotlight, a lot of them have a long history of racism, transmisogyny, ableism, etc. But I'm only gonna focus on this specific topic.

A lot of posts tend to focus on one user at a time and some seem to imply it is just this specific user who holds problematic ideals. To that I say: no. It's not just one specific user. It's not just one rotten apple, it's the whole bunch.

This isn't hyperbole. Check any of their blogs and look for any Israel-Palestine posts and you'll notice a very similar pattern: lack of posts about Palestine; lukewarm takes; lots of post about anti-semitism; painting israelis as "good settlers"; equating anti-zionism to anti-semitism; always comparing the Israeli government actions' to those of Hamas; implying palestinians are all brainwashed by Hamas; bringing other on-going genocides (like Sudan or the DRC) out of spite; questioning others' Jewish identity for being pro-palestinian and many, many more.

Why do I know this? Because I used to follow most of these guy and saw their inaction and backhanded reblogs when the genocide "started" (it's been ongoing for 76 years, but just talking about October 7th specifically). It was like a slap on the face. Weren't this the same people who urged transmascs and non-transmascs alike to support and form solidarity with indigenous and POC causes? Weren't they the ones who criticized the lack of intersectionality in LGBTQ+ spaces and swore that our fight wouldn't be exclusionary? Weren't they the ones who motivated our voices to be heard?

Then, what happened? Isn't palestinian liberation part of our fight, something we should talk about loud and clear? Are the comfort of your friends more important than the lives of palestinians?

I do not want to imply that I expect perfection, that I expect them to be ideal role models or ideal activists. But I don't think I am putting a high bar when I question their positions on Palestinian liberation, self-determination, autonomy and humanity. We as a community should be able to get a clear answer, but we've received nothing but hostility. These people uphold each other closely; even if they aren't friends, they share the same space when they talk about transmasc issues. Some of them have said absolutely horrendous shit, and none of their acquaintances said anything in favor or against it.

You aren't responsible for what your friend/acquaintance says or does, but it's questionable when y'all have been shown to have similar attitudes towards this cause. It's very telling.

So what am I getting with all of this?

When I say the whole bunch is spoiled, I say it so that y'all be more critical to their words and actions (or lack there of). You can't just go back as if anything never happened and gleefully reblog everything from them, simply because you agree on some topics. Remember, their politics are intersectional but their attitudes are showing the opposite; you can't fully divorce their zionist beliefs from their transmasc theory, because it needs the exclusion of palestinian men, palestinian queers and palestinian transmascs (and arab people as a whole) for it to exist.

When we keep sharing everything their posts, we're giving weight to their words. We should question who do we uphold and how their opinions on certain topics affect how we value each other as a community and how others outside of it perceive us. What is it in their words that make it more "worthy" than others?

I feel the transmasc community on Tumblr has been needing of more critical and/or fresh voices within our community for a while, with new perspectives and ambitions to bring to the table if we really want to consolidate as a strong movement. I've been seeing many who have felt the same amount of frustration and disappointment; some have left the community. I hope we can learn and change for the better. I urge y'all to fight for a free Palestine.

[carusocarousel]

TW for death, murder, transphobia, transandrophobia and transmisoginy

This, this, and always this.

Due to invisibilization, transmasc-specific statistics in some countries have barely started popping up (there were a couple before, but they were few), but even then, they are not widely known and still leave out many cases that go unreported. This last point also applies to violence against the community as a whole and our deaths: they are not investigated as hate crimes or are mislabeled; names, fates or even in some cases, causes of death are not released to the public, and many instances are hidden by police.

Violence against our communities are often very similar since they come from the same root but manifest differently. There have been cases of murdered trans men/transmascs whose deaths and bodies have been co-opted by TERFs and labeled "femicides" or "lesbofemicides"; their transness nor their masculinity are acknowledeged, they are misgendered, deadnamed and projected experiences which we don't know if they actually experienced or how they felt. How is that different from trans women and transfemmes who have been murdered, their gender identity never recognized after their death, get their death certificate with their deadname (presuming they get one to begin with, cause that's also a possibility), get buried as a person they weren't and psotumously get blamed for their own murders by police, media and the general public? (aka transfemicides)

(For clarification, yes, this also applies to nonbinary and gnc people; the recent murder of mexican magistrate Jesus Ociel Baena is a clear example).

And this is not even going into the close parallels with femicides. We are victims of the same institutions and groups, our bodies are not treated with respect or autonomy, our lives are seen as spectacles.

I have been focusing on death/murder, but this also applies to all other forms of violence (sa; physical, mental and financial abuse; medical mistreatment; denial of services; etc.) and the intersection with other opressions (racism, ableism, classism, homophobia, etc.).

The problem is that we're always pitted against and compared to transfemmes, but this isn't done by them, this is mostly done by people who think they're being an ally to transfemmes by invalidating transmasc statistics and experiences.

Unfortunately I've had the displeasure of meeting people who genuinely think like that in real life.

It's time for people who are not in our communities and do not actually care to help to stop talking on behalf of us. Stop trying to "elevate" trans women and transfemmes (against their will) into a position where you think they are all-knowing and have more authority over other identities; and stop trying to paint trans men and transmascs as "troublemakers" or "whiny" for rightfully calling out your attitude.

In my own experience, transfemmes have been some of the most supportive people to our experiences, they have motivated me and others to talk about our struggles. And I've seen a similar response by transmascs when they talk about their struggles.

It's important to recognize the similarities and differences so we construct ways to tackle the issue within our own communities and in partnership with others. A conversation cannot be held if all experiences are not taken into account.

To conclude (I'm sorry this is very long), more information is needed to accurately asses the current reality and risks transmascs face, but that doesn't invalidate or minimize what we already know. Statistics are part of a bigger conversation and we cannot leave out the recounted experiences of those living and those who are no longer with us. We should strive for answers, not silence. We should unite, not fight with each other.

People: hey we genuinely do not know current death and violence rates faced by trans mascs because, except for a few people, almost all trans masculine people are categorized as women experiencing random violence or, occasionally, homophobic hate crimes, rather that recorded as being trans people facing hate crimes

Someone with their head shoved so far up their own ass they've got partially digested corn stuck to their eyelashes: ahh see this proves that trans mascs almost never face violence especially compared to trans fems. If they did the statistics would be higher! I am very smart.

EDIT: this post has gotten unexpectedly popular, so while this edit won't affect current reblogs, hopefully if someone clicks back to here they'll read this.

The mention of trans fems here is SPECIFICALLY because of how some people (of a variety of genders) have been going "trans mascs aren't oppressed since they're men, or if they are oppressed, are barely oppressed and its not nearly as much as trans fems are. Trans mascs aren't knowledgeable about the trans community or experience, they should shut up and let trans fems speak for the entire trans community, because they are the most oppressed and therefore their voices are the most valuable. We know that trans fems are vastly over represented in statistics of violence in comparison to any other trans people, so that must mean trans fems face more violence than anyone trans masc or trans neutral could imagine. This means they are the most oppressed and should be listened to above all else about literally all trans things."

This post was written as an angry response to that sentiment.

Overall, always choose trans solidarity. We are stronger together.

[corvid-on-the-rock]

hug a trans dude today. tell him he looks good. tell him you see him and value him. ask him about his gender. ask him about his day. ask him about how he's doing. ask him about his hopes for the future. connect with him. please.

[anarcho-catboyism]

A lot of discourse could stop if y'all stopped approaching every situation with this idea that your experience is the default one

[vulturesawake]

Why are so many people convinced that "white, passing trans man in a liberal city surrounded by supportive family, peers, and medical professionals who is systemically equal to a cis man" is universally the only transmasculine experience in the entire world ever

[lindentea]

there were some thoughtful tags in the notes & i didn't want them to get lost at sea. (i cropped the usernames bc i know some ppl put things in tags instead of as a comment when they reblog in order to limit their notifications and/or to try to minimize the potential for harassment)

all i know is when you're trans you are whatever gender hurts you more

thinking about how the whole "trans men literally can't experience misogyny bc men can't experience misogyny" thing has done fucking catastrophic harm to feminism as a movement in recent years

[hiiragi7]

Honestly, the amount of assumptions that other trans people make about trans people's bodies based on whether they're transmasc or transfem is a large part of why I don't identify with those terms currently. I don't want people to make assumptions about my body and how it functions, my birth sex, how I was socially raised, my lived experiences, or anything else based on what gender identity I currently identify with. I remember a time when the trans community felt very united on the idea that nobody ever needs to know what's in your pants, and that it's fucking weird to ask - but nowdays, with all the discourse surrounding labels, it feels like everyone is much too comfortable pressing for details about what genitals you were born with and what your original birth certificate says.

Another part of it is, as an intersex person, I feel completely excluded from these terms. Every definition, every discourse, every discussion of transfemininity and transmasculinity is completely perisex-centered. It feels like there's no place for me at all with regards to these terms, and it makes me feel like I can't really use either label, even though sometimes I wish to. Even when intersex people are brought up, it always turns into debates about how close an intersex person has to be to a binary sex to be able to appropriately claim transfemininity or transmasculinity; we are still being violently forced into perisex ideas of transness for the sake of upholding a binary.

[tboychewtoy]

"can trans men say the t slur?" trans men can jerk off on my face for all I care

[xenineshroom]

I cannot get over the whole "theyfab is allowing me to discuss my oppression!" gang. Like no, it is a way to call someone woman-lite while also playing this "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!" routine. One would use the already existing word, "transmisogynist" if they were making an actual criticism.

One has just chosen to pretend that this isn't an obfuscation because even though TME is meant to group afab trans folks with cis people in regards to transmisogyny, "theyfab" is only an effort to point out someone's assigned sex in order to act like their behavior is connected to said assigned sex... almost like sex essentialism.

This has only ever been about a desire to use nonbinary people's assigned sex to denigrate them. It's just pooner/transtrender/tenderqueer with a fresh coat of paint and carries the same sexist and transphobic connotations. It reinforces the status quo where all nonbinary people are really just cis women who're invading trans communities- or being tricked into them (depending on who one asks.)

One cannot pretend that they care about critique when all they really want is to misgender someone they don't like.

[corvid-on-the-rock]

said it before and i will say it again: when black trans men are involved, we should say transmisandrynoir. it is the hating of trans, black, men. we are doing our black brothers a huge disservice by denying that they aren't oppressed on all three of those axis. "but men aren't opp-" shut your fuck. yes they are. there is Men Who Are Accepted By Patriarchy (straight, cis, white, masc, so on) and then there is Every Other Man. Black men are uniquely oppressed by white, cishetero patriarchy already. As are transmasc individuals. Good thing we have a word to talk about that specifically!

asides, etceteras and whathaveyous below the cut

* I am white, but transmasc

* I am aware that all transmasc POC face very similar issues at a similar 3 pronged axis of oppression, but I do not know the words for that, if there are any. Let me know if there are.

* I will not debate that most men are oppressed under U.S patriarchy. There is a dominant image of the ideal man in the U.S and most men are constantly fucking themselves up trying to fit into that mold. A good chunk of that "most men" are directly harmed by patriarchy with guns. That in itself is a form of oppression. End of.

One thing i hear about transandrophobia is that it is not serious/noticed outside of tumblr. It is mostly because your queer spaces supress, not seeing it as a form of transphobia unique from transmisogyny and exorsexism.

This insta post showed up literally a few minutes ago on my reel feed.

Transmascs who do not fit the usual flamboyant, feminine queers are.. basically discarded. Many transmascs of color are seen as more masculine, and therefore pushed from queer spaces becaue of how they look. Yes, transandrophobic people hate transmasculinity, do not let them tell you otherwise. Yes, race and "passing privlege" has to do with transandrophobia, and plays a part in it.

Transmascs, trans men and many more are oppressed by misogyny-based androphobia, and transandrophobia is the intersection between transphobia and androphobia. We all know that queer spaces feel less welcome to those who are masculine, so why deny that androphobia exists as a tool to oppress trans men?

[lord-radish]

"transmasc discourse" its discourse to you. The otherness of being trans in a cisnormative society, the disconnect between what's expected of you based on your sex and how you actually feel about yourself regarding gender and the struggle to express yourself and finally be happy as transgender reads just as well to me from a transmasc perspective as it does from a transfem one.

The idea that transmasculine people benefit from patriarchy and misogyny is bunk when you consider that transphobia manifests as people not taking trans people as the gender they present as, and transphobia tends to be a default in cisnormative spaces. I would wager that transmen are still often victims of misogyny due to that expression of transphobia. The idea that transmen transition, become one of the guys and kick down the ladder for other queer identities because they assimilate as "oppressors" and inherently become a part of the problem is absurd and deranged.

Transmasc people are as queer as gay people, bi people, transfem people, non-binary people, pan people - they are a part of the queer community, and I'm absolutely against othering them or turning them into intra-community "oppressors".

If we're talking about assimilationists, they exist along all axes of queerness and aren't inherent to the transmasc experience. If we're talking about misogyny, transmasc people tend to suffer from it due to transphobia. I've heard for years about bi people and ace people and trans people "harming the community", I'm not about to roll over and see the same thing happen to transmasculine people.

In closing:

[ID: A screenshot of a post by tomohawk12345 that reads "This sexual minority isn't part of the sexual minority group", with two emojis with buck teeth and glasses after the text. End ID.]

[gor3sigil]

Cis Queer Bitches be like "Yeah I'm an intersectional feminist, I want everyone to feel safe and want to create a space for radical love and acceptance !!" then basically put a bouncer at the entry of the LGBTQ+ center to make sure the people coming to the "women and enbies ONLY" event are, indeed, women and enbies.

[intersexability]

Here’s your friendly reminder that AFAB and AMAB are meaningless and obsolete terms!

[lycandrophile]

if you ever get involved in discourse that boils down to "can trans men be/do X?" i need you to understand that you're asking the wrong question. the right questions are: what gives you the authority to tell trans men what we're allowed to be or do? what makes you think we would listen to you? why is it your business? (hint: it's not.)

trans men can be and do whatever we want forever. stop worrying about what arbitrary rules you want to hold us to and start worrying about your own life for a change.

[ugly-anarchist]

Anyone who says that men/mascs aren't oppressed or hated for being men/mascs is wrong and kind of a shitty person

Anti-masculinity is a massive problem in the queer community!

Butch sapphics, trans men, masc enbies, transfems who don't pass or don't want to pass, intersex people, people who are just attracted to men are all demonized within queer spaces. And this stems from a hatred of men/masculinity and the idea that anyone who is masculine, physically, through presentation or gender, is the enemy.

Even people who allow masculinity into their lives are demonized. Do you know how many bi women are ostracized from sapphic spaces because they like men? People who are attracted to men are expected to bash their own sexuality! They're expected to go "ugh I hate that I like men"! Trans men are expected to hate the fact that they're men! Trans men are expected to go "ew I'm a gross man now I miss being a woman I wish I was cis"!

The anti-masculinity within queer spaces has gone so far that we've looped back around to homophobia, biphobia, and transphobia. This is a problem! This is a problem that needs to be talked about! No one benefits from this shit! Women don't even benefit from it because if a woman decides she wants to present as masculine or be gnc in any way then she immediately gets shunned for being a gender traitor! This is just radfem shit!!!

And if you call me a fucking "transandrophobia truther" then you're a part of the problem!!!