#wicked act 2 analysis

[briarlovesclara]

Choices and Consequences: A Wicked Analysis

"If Movie 1 [of Wicked] is about choices, then Movie 2 is about the consequences." -- Jon M. Chu, interviewed by @/mayaegbo on tiktok

Here's the thing: there's a pivotal choice that is presented to each of the main three (Elphaba, Fiyero, and Glinda) at least once in every configuration within the two acts (of the musical, presuming this transfers to the movie):

Character A asks Character B to run away with them.

Often this is talked about in the context of Defying Gravity, but it actually happens TWO TIMES before that! And it all starts with...

Now, this is the movie's rough draft, so the scene does change slightly on screen, but it's for dramatic emphasis and the important part's fairly consistent through both the musical and movie. Same for the rest of these :)

Fiyero asks Elphaba to run away with him, albeit temporarily, to do a criminal or socially unacceptable act. Elphaba accepts this, which jumpstarts their relationship in earnest (in contrast with him asking her to ride with him and Feldspur in the forest, where she denies what would be an understandable request).

The next example of this situation, interestingly enough, shows to be the exception to the rule.

Elphaba asks Glinda to come with her, and Glinda accepts. What makes this different from the other times? There is a) no loss if she accepts, and b) active gain. Even though she can't expect to get her heart's desire, meeting The Wizard and even going to the Emerald City is huge for anyone, especially someone like Glinda!

The heartbreaking effect of this being the first time someone asks Glinda to come with her is that the audience may be prepped to think she will say yes in the future. Maybe she's just adventurous; maybe she'll follow Elphie anywhere, or can't bear to miss out on excitement. The rug pull is that she won't always say yes, and you deliberately are able to mischaracterize this choice until she makes a different one in Defying Gravity. Speaking of which...

Elphaba asks Glinda to come with her again, this time to truly become a criminal, wanted and unwanted, to cast herself out from society irrevocably... and she can't. Glinda refuses.

Some people like to talk about the tragedy that by the time Glinda would have come with her-- at the end of the story, maybe-- it's too late. And I agree that if she ever reaches that point, that's true. But I want to make it clear that this isn't just an Act 1, pre-time jump way of thinking.

I don't have script for this one, because the second movie isn't out yet, and it's not included in the musical script provided in The Grimmerie, but Fiyero asks Glinda to run away with him to find Elphaba in the middle of Thank Goodness after Glinda says that she hates staying and listening to the slander about her. Not only does Glinda refuse, she admits that it's because of the glamor and love she's grown used to. Crucially, she asks who could give it all up, and Fiyero answers, "you know who could, and did." (Pretty certain that's the wording.)

Fast forwarding, we get to the Wizard's Throne Room. There's no way that Elphaba would ask Fiyero to come with her-- but he decides he's coming anyway, and she accepts.

Now we get to Fiyero's only denial of Elphaba-- in Munchkinland, when it's obvious that he is going to die either way. If he tries to run, they will both be caught and killed. If he stays and dies, she has a chance, so of course he's yelling at her to go without him.

(And maybe, just maybe, he's paralyzed with fear and guilt, staring down the barrel at Glinda as he yells to Elphaba, unseen behind him. Despite it all, he can't seem to turn his back on his fiancée. He won't leave her again.)

Finally, Fiyero and Elphaba run away together in the finale. That's not an ask, is it? But Elphaba wants Glinda to know. She's hesitating. Fiyero starts walking, but she holds back, and he reaches out a hand to her and says "come". After a pause, she follows him, and he puts her hat on as they leave together. So as it started, Fiyero asks Elphaba to come with him, and she accepts.

But wait, you might be saying, what about Glinda? When does she ask either of them to come with her? And the answer is that she doesn't, not explicitly, because that's not who she is.

Glinda wouldn't ask someone to come with her, because she'd never be caught doing something that needed persuasion. The other two are the revolutionaries, who inspire the best in her, but just like she doesn't go through with following any serious rebellion, she doesn't incite it, even as a joke.

That being said, she does tell Elphaba to do something big one time: when Glinda asks Elphaba to listen to the Wizard and Madame Morrible at the end of Act 1. Then, during Defying Gravity, she says, "Listen to me. Just say you're sorry." Even when she is finally trying to convince someone to do something rebellious, it's rebelling against what Elphaba knows is right, her sense of justice. The audience should have known by the time Elphaba asks Glinda to come with her that it wouldn't work; the Glinda that begged Elphaba to let go of Animal rights for her own comfort would never fly away from a life in the Wizard's Palace.

Some loose ends with Glinda:

Glinda similarly asks Elphaba to come with everybody else to the Ozdust, but she leaves without her and we know where that motivation came from.

I can't think of Glinda directly asking Fiyero to come with her anywhere, besides discouraging him from leaving with Elphaba in Act 2, which I don't feel like counts.

So yes, Jon M. Chu, choices and consequences. The two best words to describe this incredible story :)

[crows-king]

I've been thinking a bit about how Galinda and Fiyero work as foils(?), and the contrast between their goals, personality, and their relationship to social influence individually change how they navigate their specific social situations.

And why it puzzles me when people judgmentally compare them and what they'd do in "What-If" scenarios as a gotcha to make one seem better/worst. Because in my mind they are similar but not comparable, because they fundamentally have very different personal stakes.

Primarily because of the difference in how they act in an Active (Galinda) vs Passive (Fiyero) approach to social engineering. And also, because one of them in writing is more developed as an individual than the other.

I'LL MOSTLY BE TALKING ABOUT: WICKED MOVIE - PART 1

Galinda is inherently Active. She has wants and desires that she's driven to achieve, and so actively plays the part of the good socialite because it will help her become more popular and to eventually become "Galinda the GoodSorceress". "It's not about aptitude, it's about the way you're viewed", and so on. It’s the one thing she knows she’s good at.

Of course, she also likes the attention and validation, but her charms doesn't come as naturally as she wants others, and probably herself, to believe. (I love that quote Ariana said somewhere about how "Galinda sees herself as a graceful swan, when she's actually a very stiff, but still beautiful swan", or something of that sort). She's insecure that she’ll lose people's favour and thus her most important asset, so she continually appeals to them. It's an act that she simultaneously enjoys doing for the most part, but also traps her from ever being truly close to anybody for fear of being known and not meeting expectations and losing that adoration. Until Elphaba that is.

Because of her drive to fulfill her dreams and to keep her best asset, and personal desperate need for validation, she has a much more obvious internal conflicts when she has to choose between Elphaba/the moral good vs keeping with the good graces of authority and/or the public. She's more prone to being influenced by others, and many of her choices become a calculated risk. She’s often times selfish and chooses her own desires, but it’s what makes her such an interesting and very human character. The struggle she balances when she’s forced to choose for better or worse.

In contrast

Fiyero is Passive. Dancing Through Life is literally him telling others that being lazy and not thinking is the best way to cope and enjoy life by ignoring problems. He is discontent with his life, but doesn't really acknowledge it until Elphaba reads him. Much like Galinda he is also playing a part, but it's not as tightly controlled as Galinda because he doesn't have an end goal for it.

Of course, while he probably doesn't want to lose his princely privileges. His passive "brainless" approach doesn't really put him in risky situations that would put him in conflict leading to losing things he cares about, because he really doesn't have a lot to lose. (Which is a byproduct of the fact he is primarily written as a love interest side character without much of an arc or motives outside his love triangle relationship to Elphaba and Galinda).

What confounds me is when people compare them and judge what their choices would be in if they were placed in pivotal moments, because we never really see them in situations with similar stakes.

For example, the Lion Cub scene. Most people interpret this scene as an act of braverism and heroics by Fiyero. And in some part it is, he's spurred on to save the cub, and he and Elphaba do. But it's telling that he only does this after everyone is asleep and there are virtually no risks. Any present social or physical conflicts that could arise? POOF! Gone. The worst that could probably be done to them is being punished, or even kicked out, if they’re discovered afterwards. Which Fiyero is not new to and doesn't really care about, and while maybe uncertain for Elphaba, is also unlikely because she's Morrible's irreplaceable pupil.

Some people use this scene as evidence that under his facade, Fiyero is secretly valiant like Elphaba thinks so. But I think in actuality tells the opposite. It reveals that Fiyero does care about the Animals, yes. But, the fact he only acts when prompted and there are no longer any present risks initially makes him seem less brave than Elphaba, and even Galinda. Because it contrasts with the Ozdust dance scene between the girls. Where Galinda had to make an active choice to do the risky and brave thing as an apology for hurting Elphaba, and offer to truly connect with her in front of everyone with the possibility of social out casting. She has an obvious internal conflict and risk assessment where she ends up picking the moral good over her personal comfort and social appeal. I'm genuinely curious on what kind of choices Elphaba, Galinda, and Fiyero might have done in that situation if they weren't given the perfect out by the magic poppies.

Would Galinda have helped in with the lion cub if she were awake? Probably, but who knows? Because in the narrative, Galinda isn't really put in a situation where she could choose good without being watched or without someone breathing down her neck. The prospect of being punished and kicked out from Shiz would also be most plausible and ruinous for Galinda. Morrible would definitely use it as an excuse to kick her out, or at the very least punish her, if she could, and it could throw away her only chance of achieving her dream of becoming a sorceress. She would have probably joined them in the end, though. If only to make sure they were safe. Compared to Fiyero, she has more conflicts of interests because she has personal aspirations and influence based on her reputation, and thus have more fears and consequences to consider in losing it.

Would Fiyero have joined Elphaba on the broom? Maybe, mostly likely. Because narratively, he’s never given a reason why he shouldn’t. He doesn’t see his worth and his skills intrinsically tied to public influence and opinion. He doesn’t have any wants or wishes he would have to abandon. He’ll have to leave his friends and family, but it’s not shown how close they really are to him outside Feldspar, his Horse friend, and he’s probably joining them anyway. He’s definitely more equipped to survive on the run compared to Glinda. Unlike Glinda, who is proven right in the end to being most useful when she can wield her powerful social influence For Good, Fiyero would probably be most useful as a sidekick to Elphaba. He was always written to be Elphaba’s follower, it’s no surprise. It’s also easier to take risks when you don’t have much to lose. But I think most people would agree that would make a less interesting story.

[youvebeengalindafied]

This is all @polyarmy and @fiyeroba ‘s fault for making me sad about Glinda again so now I’m posting my whole Glinda Meta here (originally an obnoxiously long dm sent to @gamorahww who is a patient saint)

You’ve asked for it, and now you get……The Glinda Meta™

First: I have been obsessed w/ Glinda's character for like 15 years. She is my roman empire. But I also really LIKE her as a flawed character - something that the fandom has always seemed to be a little uncomfortable with.

She is, to me, what Jane Austen once wrote about Emma:

“I am going to write a heroine whom no one but myself will much like.”

Full meta character analysis under the cut. Uh. Strap in.

(This gets a lil long sorry, but PLEASE HEAR ME OUT -)

To me, the interesting thing is what actually - ACTUALLY - motivates Glinda to act the way she does is so much greater and deeper than a simple desire for success/fame/popularity.

Like obviously in literature/critique of narrative, we have this idea of protagonists vs supporting characters. Supporting characters might have philosophies or goals that drive them (think Nessa and Boq) but those philosophies and goals are usually not developed into self-contradictory nuance the way a protagonist's motivations are. They’re just facts about the character.

And in my option, a big problem in the wicked fandom is that everybody seems to treat Glinda as a supporting character whose motivations are easy to digest. To most fans, she's either the girlfriend who is there to support Elphaba's story by being "loving but conflicted." Or to critics she's entirely selfish and cruel (even as she's fun and interesting), and therefore a semi-antagonist

But if you step back and treat Glinda as a true antihero protagonist of Wicked (for the sake of the mental character study), you see that she's not actually motivated by love or popularity or even success....what drives her is desperation.

Glinda sees her world as a place that cannot be changed and will only work to destroy those who cannot correctly operate in it. And she is SO DESPERATE to avoid that. Elphaba's fate is actually her worst fear - she cannot break away from society and leap to a new fate, because she is the ultimate cynic who thinks there is no way that could possibly work. In fact, it's an enormous testament to her love (however you want to intepret that) of Elphaba that she's even willing to consider leaving during Defying Gravity. For a brief moment, her immense, incredible faith in Elphaba is almost enough to overcome her complete desperation to survive the horrible world she thinks she's in.

And that obviously means that she's not as noble as Elphaba or as brave as Fiyero as a character - she cannot make the choice to leave when both of them do at different points - but that's because she's the most "human" character in the story. Most people are not brave enough to become international terrorists, even in the face of great evil. We might join in a developed cause, but to knowingly walk towards what is likely one's death to change a system you know you’ll actually have very little effect on...that takes a very special kind of person. And while Glinda is a GOOD person, she is too much a cynic and too desperate to survive her crazy world to become that impossible standard of the Rebel or the Hero. She's just a flawed, scared girl, in circumstances she never dreamed she’d be in.

And then the craziest thing happens:

Rather than showing Glinda that she should have been brave and done what E and F did, the narrative instead goes and basically confirms all her darkest fears: Elphaba rebels...and her revolution fails, and Glinda loses her best friend to bitter hatred and insanity for most of Act 2. Fiyero decides to leave and do the right thing by going with Elphaba....and he is almost immediately murdered in a horrible, violent way as punishment for it. This can only reinforce for Glinda that the State/the System/the World is all-powerful, and she must bow to it.

But that's the most fascinating moment for her character, because the very moment she realizes the absolute overwhelming power of the system (March of the Witch Hunters) is also the very moment that chooses to die rather than perpetuating it. She leaves the City to approach Elphaba - whom Glinda thinks POSSIBLY WANTS TO KILL HER - and BEGS Elphaba to not die. Begs Elphaba to stop her self-sacrificial madness. Begs Elphaba to allow Glinda to sacrifice herself instead ("Then I'll go, I'll tell everybody the truth!" "No! They'll just turn against you!" "I DON'T CARE!" - this girl who is entirely motivated by survival is straight up throwing it all on the line ready to walk to her death at the hands of a mob with wide open, unblinking eyes)

And obviously, in doing so, she is making the same choice that Fiyero did earlier in the story, But the huge difference is that Fiyero is a classic case of a "dead from the beginning" character, and he does not have the same motivations as her. He starts as a nhilist already embracing death in Dancing Through Life and his character is not somebody who is desprate to survive - his character is driven by a desperation for a faith. And Elphaba (and her cause) is his faith that he happily martyrs himself for.

By contrast, Glinda is terrified of the system that is trying to kill her, and she is desperate to survive it. She sees the way it takes everything form her, again and again, destroying everything she loves - Elphaba, Fiyero, her own sense of goodness…

(And she is extremely genre-aware that she is in a tragedy: her world isn't fair, and she knows that Elphaba will fail. She knows this will all go wrong.)

But Glinda still has such strength of character that she - in the end - overcomes all of her fear, all of her weaknesses, and humbles herself at the pyre to join the people she loves so much in their fate. She both offers to die for Elphaba and she takes up Elphaba's work and dedicates her entire life to it, consequences be damned. And that comes from a place of ultimate love and goodness, despite all of her flaws and all the temptations dissuading her.

Because Glinda is not Elphaba or Fiyero - she isn't a starry-eyed optimistic rebel or a man with a obsessive, loving faith. She is just a girl. Just Emma. And she is extremely flawed, and has so many fears that push and pull at her in a way the other main characters do not experience. But despite being so painfully, humanly defective, her goodness allows her to do the right thing in the end.

tl;dr - the greatest thing about Glinda’s character is that she is flawed, and she is weak and makes all the wrong choices. But in the end, she humbles herself completely - to the point of offering her own life for Elphaba and taking the whole weight of the world on her shoulders despite all her fear - because she is ultimately good.

And thus in the end, she becomes the person that Elphaba so clearly sees her as throughout the story: good, caring, and able to make real change in the world. She will now try desperately to fully live up to Elphaba's incredible faith in her. And it's so heartbreaking and tragic, but also one of the best character arcs ever.

So I guess it's less "wants to stay safe in her bubble" and more "she sees no option other than to stay safe. The State/System is all-powerful and there is nothing she thinks she can do to change that. But the beauty of the character lies in her decision to step out of that bubble anyways."

—

BONUS: Glinda’s flaws in relation to her relationship with Elphaba

(Or why Gelphie is a devastating ship (romantically or not) but not in the way you think)

This section dedicated to the SJB/AA performance that just BREAKS ME.

Elphaba basically sees Glinda through some WILDLY rose-tinted glasses (which is just. such a fascinating insight into elphaba’s character). Which is why a good chunk of the fandom accepts it as fact that Glinda is ~not actually all that flawed~ or is somehow being forced to make the decisions she is (she is not. the narrative point of Fiyero’s character is to prove that lol)

Glinda is very much complicated and does make some truly terrible decisions. Elphaba just sees and believes the good in her, despite everything she does (because it’s also a fact of the story that - either platonically or romantically - she’s clearly a little in love with Glinda. (The passes she gives that girl…)). I don’t think her weird thing about Glinda is particularly rational, but it is undeniably all-consuming.

And that makes their relationship feel VERY human. Their flaws don't make them unworthy of each other’s love and respect and friendship. Elphaba's love of Glinda is pretty crazy in light of how much Glinda’s morals and choices differ from her own, but that’s the kind of love that real, sometimes illogical people have. Anybody trying to prove the logic or compatibility of the characters is kinda missing the point - it doesn’t make sense, and THAT’S how you know it’s love.

(Brief aside: similar to Elphaba’s obsession with Glinda, Fiyero is also irrationally obsessed with Elphaba. I mean, she kinda sucks at the whole revolution thing (she's trying!!) and he's clearly starry-eyed ignoring a LOT of her flaws lol. In contrast - for better or worse, Glinda does see Elphaba's flaws and calls them out, just as Elphaba sees Fiyero's flaws and calls him out. It’s a nice little circular relationship)

But…but….is it gay???

Sure. I think so - but I’m a lesbian who has shipped it since I was a preteen lol. But that’s also NOT THE POINT, and focusing on only the romantic angle of their relationship REALLY ignores just how layered and complex it is.

Taking off my squee shipping glasses for a minute: they’re fundamentally just two people in some version of an EXTREMELY intense relationship. I honestly think Glinda reads as a little terrified of how insanely intense her relationship is with Elphaba. She fears walking down that road and fully falling into that intense, all-consuming love. (And we literally learn why later through Fiyero’s ‘death’ and Elphaba’s insanity - love makes you do some crazy things, and Glinda can’t afford that in this world.)

Regardless of whether you interpret them romantically or not - it’s clear they’re very intense about each other and Glinda is very afraid that Elphaba is her weakness. Unfortunately, Elphaba is also her soulmate and the love of her life, and she’ll always come back again. That fact will ruin Glinda’s life in the end, but it will have been worth it for all the love that was there

[deeplyshalllow]

An In Depth Study of Fiyero and Elphaba's interactions in the Dancing Through Life/Ozdust Scene in Wicked the Movie

As a follow on from the post I made the other day analysing the Fiyeraba movie meeting scene, I wanted to do an analysis on the movie’s take on the other Fiyero and Elphaba interactions.

I am writing an analysis of the Lion Cub scene too, but it’s over 1000 words and they’re still only on their bikes. So I thought I’d split this up and post the DTL/Ozdust Fiyeraba analysis. It’s a small one, give Fiyero and Elphaba don’t speak to each other during this scene, but there’s some interesting things to note.

The moment where Fiyero waves at Elphaba, while Elphaba rolls her eyes at him is a good way to confirm both of their feelings about each other in this moment. Fiyero has no hard feelings about Elphaba from the day before (and he’s certainly not taken his cue from how the rest of the student body treats her). If anything, she’s interested him and it’s made him more determined to befriend her and prove he’s got nothing against her. Elphaba, however, still thinks he’s like everyone else and is mocking her for her skin, and him playing up the dumb playboy act even louder, now he has an audience, is not helping at all, and she leaves mid scene. While we see Elphaba’s views of Fiyero at this stage in the musical with this line “It's absurd! This silly, rich boy appears and everyone's off to worship him at some cultish social gathering!” getting Fiyero’s feelings for Elphaba here is new and is a nice addition to his character.

The second important moment is Fiyero’s line in the Ozdust about Elphaba, “Well I’ll say this much, she doesn’t give a twig what anyone thinks.” It is a line taken directly from the musical but it hits slightly differently here. In the musical this line is said because Fiyero cares so much about what everyone else thinks that he rewrites his entire personality and he envies Elphaba for apparently not doing the same. The thing is, with the meeting scene in the movie where Fiyero calls out Elphaba’s defensiveness, we know that Fiyero has already sussed out Elphaba uses aggression as a defence mechanism, he knows she cares what other people think and puts on an act too – so instead this line can be read as Fiyero going “I’m impressed she’s brave enough to do what she wants despite knowing people will judge her for it” which has a nice link to him admiring what she does in Defying Gravity at the beginning of Act 2, “You know who could [resist being popular for doing what is right]. Who has.” As well as foreshadowing his act 2 character development when he too gives up the love of the people to do what is right.

We also get a few shots of Fiyero dancing along enthusiastically and looking admiringly at Galinda and Elphaba together through the Gelphie dance scene. It’s actually toned down from in the musical where he’s the first to go over and talk to Elphaba and Galinda when everyone starts joining in, (which I get – he doesn’t really need to be in this important Gelphie moment), but I think what it does imply is finally a change in Elphaba’s attitude towards him. She’s given Galinda a second chance, Galinda joining in has allowed her to let her guard down and Fiyero, as always is nothing but supportive of her. It’s very easy from this scene to see that, logically, Elphaba will be happy to start afresh with her perception of Fiyero too.

Analysis of Fiyeraba interactions in the Lion Cub Scene in the movie

An In Depth Study of Elphaba and Fiyero in the Train Station Scene

[nobodysdaydreams]

Been thinking about Galinda and Elphaba’s choices at the end of “Defying Gravity” and how different things might have been, and it makes me so sad because at the end of the day, while it was Elphaba who did the right thing, Galinda’s decision has less to do with her being cowardly or evil, and more to do with her going with what she knows to be a safe/effective strategy.

Galinda doesn’t insult or downplay Elphaba’s concern for the animals. She yells at Elphaba for defying the Wizard because doing so “hurts her cause forever”. Galinda’s whole thing is popularity, playing the system, playing the social game. That’s what she does, that’s the world she knows, that’s what she’s comfortable with. She knows that Elphaba leaving will only lead to her being vilified, even if Elphaba is 100% right. Yes, Galinda loves her popularity and has ambition, but she does it with intention and purpose. Whereas Elphaba, who has never been popular and has no chance of eclipsing the Wizard in that domain (but totally can and already has in terms of her power) is way more comfortable calling him out right here and now. Galinda’s comments about Elphaba’s delusions of grandeur and her not knowing what she’s doing with the book also hold some truth to them as seen in Act 2 when Elphaba’s attempts to fix things with the book have unintended consequences, yet work. There’s some truth to both their perspectives and no perfect and effective and 100% moral solution to this problem. These are two college girls trying their best with the cards they’ve been dealt, and it is not either of their faults what happens: it’s the Wizard’s and Morrible’s. Galinda is not the villain of the story, they are.

Galinda makes mistakes, she does selfish things, for sure, but she’s certainly not evil. I point this out in my analysis of “No One Mourns the Wicked” but the Wicked story, while it is about Galinda and Elphaba and features them as the main characters, isn’t a story of Galinda vs. Elphaba. As Galinda says, despite their different choices, they were friends, and they cared for each other. Wicked is the story of Elphaba vs. the Wizard, as told by Galinda, who was friends with Elphaba and worked for the Wizard. The villagers in the song characterize Galinda goodness itself and sing that “goodness knows what goodness is, goodness knows the wicked die alone” and in the end, Galinda is the only one that does know the truth about the Wizard being the truly Wicked one and Elphaba being wonderful. Galinda also knows in the end, she’s ruling Oz and carrying out Elphaba’s mission to make Oz better for everyone, including the Animals, which is what she believes Elphaba died for. Meanwhile, Galinda knows the Wizard, who was truly Wicked, died/left Oz grieving what he’d lost/what he’s done.

That’s why I have a hard time blaming Galinda or calling her the villain for her choices during “Defying Gravity”. Even though there is tragedy in both Galinda and Elphaba’s endings, their respective strategies pay off for both of them. Elphaba’s stance against the Wizard leads to him being exposed by Dorothy as a fraud and allows Elphaba to help the animals. Whereas Galinda becomes so popular and loved by the people, that they totally accept the Wizard leaving because they have her now, and Galinda is able to take power from Morrible and send her to prison, no questions asked. Now she’s ruling all of Oz and can actually make things better for the Animals. She had to make moral concessions to get there that Elphaba wasn’t willing to, and yes, that was wrong, I’m not saying it isn’t, but Galinda didn’t just do it because she was 100% selfish, she genuinely believed this was the best choice and winning strategy, and given her background, why wouldn’t she? Galinda’s popularity is what has gotten her this far in life despite her lack of ability, and Elphaba was asking her to give all of that up, every bit of power, influence, and protection she had, to become a scorned criminal, and anything Galinda tried to do to bring about positive change would be twisted and manipulated by the Wizard and Morrible. Whereas Galinda was asking Elphaba to let a man who is abusing the Animals (who for many years, were the only friends Elphaba had) use her power for his own evil designs in order to slowly gain more power and influence and make gradual changes and concessions for the sake of the Animals all while there are huge injustices being committed right now that she’d be doing little or nothing to stop.

Given these situations, of course Galinda and Elphaba made the decisions they did at the end of part 1, of course they still hope things work out for one another, of course Galinda smiles to herself with pride when she sees Elphaba flying away (I loved that detail, she so happy to see her get away, it’s so sweet). Neither of them are in a fair position at all, and you can argue that Galinda should have been more willing to take a risk and had a moral obligation to do so, but the fact that she didn’t wasn’t 100% self-motivated and if anyone is to be blamed it’s the grown Animal abusing deadbeat father and professional conman who put her in that position, not the college girl who just wants to support her bestie without losing the only card she had to play.

The unfortunate byproduct of this (and I talk about this in other posts about how powerful Elphaba and Galinda could have been together), is that we will never know if things could have been better if Galinda had gone with Elphaba or if Elphaba had decided to stay. Galinda’s popularity might have been enough to make the students at Shiz, her parents, and her friends question the Wizard’s vilification of her or at least frame her as an impressionable and confused young girl, but would it have been enough for her, a college student, to totally expose the Wizard’s plot and rally all of Oz to her and Elphaba’s side? And had Elphaba chosen to stay, could she have found a way, after the Wizard makes the people see her as “wonderful” to use her magic she still barely understands to secretly protect her Animal friends until she finds a way to stop/expose the Wizard and Morrible? Both sound unlikely, but at the end of the day, we don’t know. You can argue that Elphaba’s choice was more morally correct and Galinda’s was more strategic and effective long term, but we’ll never know what might have been. Though goodness knows, the two of them will probably wonder for the rest of their lives.

[madockisser]

I just finished Elfhame series and came across your tumblr and your post about "Cardan just wanting love" and your analysis was enjoyable to read.

However, after finishing books 1, 2, and 3, I get the feeling that Cardan isn’t... faithful to Jude. Fae are very poly, and Cardan was/is definitely a thot, and Jude's insecurities over that never go away.

Do you believe Cardan is monogamous after The Wicked King?

Will cardan stay loyal to jude? / cardans views of faith / his love for jude

😭😭no hate to anon but i can’t ever picture cardan NOT being faithful to jude. Also anon did you read “how the king of elfhame learned to hate stories”

btw I’ve made posts like this before(regarding his faith) and they dive into other aspects of why i think he was faithful: this one!!!

he singled jude out from the very beginning during palace school, he fell for jude WHILE he was with nicasia, for so many reasons.

he at first found her infuriating and frustrating for her advantages that she had and he didn’t, despite being raised on the idea that humans were garbage.

then he fell for her determination and audacity, her cunning and strength. even as jude made him look weak, he wanted her and only her.

Meanwhile, cardan hates ass-kissers, which is nicasia, and the rest of the court. He hates that courtiers will allow him to slap and use them, all while going home to people that actually loved them. This is stated in his novella.

Cardan is brought up on the idea that he is a prince that has nothing, that he is worthless despite his title, and he hates it. And that’s how the people treat him, adored and petted on for short times (mostly for favor), but ultimately abandoned and unloved.

Yes, cardan has had lovers, as seen in tcp, in twk, but never after the beggining of the wicked king when he’s shot at. of course courtiers drape themselves on him, but he is aware that they do not love him and that he does not love them, he has only grown not to lash out at them, at which i imagine was based on the fact that he was no longer under balekins suffrance (his beatings) and because he now had jude (even if they weren’t really allies at this point, he still craves Jude’s favor and acts accordingly, as seen as when he gives Taryn his army bc he thinks she’s jude, as seen as him trying time and time again to gain her favor in twk)

Because he wants jude to trust him. Even in the first book, even BEFORE the first book, in his novella, cardan WANTS jude to admire him. he wants jude to see him as he wishes to be seen, princely and powerful, i will attach a pic below from his novella:

(Honestly this pic ALONE pretty much seals the deal for me that he wouldn’t so much as look at another, let alone cheat on jude)

now, onto monogamy and fae standards:

Cardan has shown a clear dislike for many fae standards and cultures.

He sees humans differently from others, he sees life as precious and as something to hold onto, (I’m talking about his morals and his unwillingness to kill even someone that another faerie would consider beneath him), he is unlike his brothers in the power-hungry sense, he likes taking the easy way out, and he craves true love above all.

Jude’s monologue once said that faeries view lovemaking as a sport, as a game. But cardan also said that he never saw love as a game. And he cannot lie.

Add on: bro LITERALLY called jude his GOD. and he cannot lie… so why would he ever have anyone else? exactly!

Another thing, his view of human culture. We know he read Alice in wonderland. We also know that to humans, exchanging rings is commonly our wedding/marital tradition. It it not a fae tradition, for a bride and groom to give each other rings.

Cardan went out of his way to learn about Jude’s culture when proposing to her, and he also stole her ring very early on in the wicked king, so i can imagine that he was planning to propose for a while. To make her his queen.

It is also human culture to remain loyal and monogamous.

Then, when she left during the exile. he was devastated, and begged her to come home in letters that his mother did not send.

In twk, cardan learns, slowly but surely, how to be good. How to be a good king, a good person. For Jude. He learns that he doesn’t have to resort to drinking himself sick to avoid all the misery he endures, but to overcome those miseries and become a good man. and he does it partly for jude and also of course-for himself.

Cardan never knew he could be good, he could be loved. But jude taught him that. (If that isn’t enough to think that he wouldn’t remain monogamous then damn)

Then of COURSE there’s the fact that jude is human. there aren’t many unglamoured humans in elfhame, and obviously Jude’s body is different from a faerie. i like to think that cardan has a specific attraction to Jude’s human body, rather than the same old faerie bodies he’s seen. (I get it king)

LASTLY, i just want to remind us all of how cardan reacted when he found nicasia (of whom he was in a royal relationship with, like him and Jude) with Locke. the photos from his novella are below:

He views nicasias little fling with Locke as excruciating, as a horrible painful betrayal, and he trusted her not to hurt him. (Similar to him and jude, how they trust each other by the end of it, not to hurt one another)

and also, i highlighted “pretend” because although it is faerie standard to be poly in many relationships, cardan STILL is pained by her actions and his dignity and heart are both in shreds. he will pretend to love her after, if the opportunity arises and nicasia doesn’t love him, if it turns out to be just a fling, but he would still be pained by being with her.

if that is how cardan feels about being with lovers, about jude being poly or him being poly, why would he go and inflict that on jude?? he wouldn’t. what him and jude have is much more real than what he and nicasia had because it wasn’t built on obligation (and also the idea that nicasia was going to eventually murder him and steal his throne)

Moral of the story, cardan would not be with other lovers for these reasons: he loves her and he loves to be loved by her, he has learned human cultures to make himself a better husband for her and he follows those traditions, he is heavily distrustful and he dislikes courtiers. also him and jude are MARRIED ROYALTY, at which they are bound by the throne and the land to be together or whatever

anyway thanks for coming to my Ted talk! it shocks me that anyone would think that he would be with others, even if it is faerie culture, cardan is absolutely DEVOTED to that woman (i understand you king)

add on: also ofc jude is scared to get her heart hurt, she guards her heart the ENTIRE series until the end w cardan- and she’s sad when she sees him w nicasia when she asks cardan to get w her in twk. also he’s smoking hot and the king so yeah i would be thinking abt his sex life too lol. also- bro doesn’t even consider the thought that she thinks he may have been w another lover (in qon when they are about to bang) like he is so madly in love w her and she doesn’t even see it, they’re so cute! ALSO cardan has finally found love w jude so it doesn’t make sense for him to go and seek out another, especially since he’s distrusting and hates boot lickers lol

sorry for being so dead on here, I’m from the US so i was saving this last week for rotting my brain on TikTok for the last few days !! I’m working on more asks and ily 🫶 also feel free to add anything i probably missed!! This was messy and lmk if there are any typos!! ok bye

[eurydicees]

oh dont apologise i loved your essay 😭 and i 100% agree with everything. Theres such a innate theme of choices and consequences in wicked the musical and its so fascinating to me how choices made by all the characters have such profound consequences at the end. And fiyero’s choices are no different in the way they alter the trajectory of multiple characters.

He is really the only one i can think of who sacrifices everything for elphaba and does it all willingly. How do you like elphaba and then dislike the one character who was ready to give up his whole life and everything that came with it for her 😭

Twitter is very binary in that regard honestly, and its such a shame that they miss out on some pretty interesting character analysis about their favourite characters bc they decide to be so rigid and weird about other characters who had an impact on their faves. Couldnt be me lol, making multiple threads about a character you hate. I also think something else is at play here but dont wanna say it publicly lol but given your other responses i think you’d probably agree.

And yes totally agree about dividing the film in two parts - i can only hope the film watchers stick around for part 2 and see fiyero’s whole arc

thanks for the ask! also i wrote another fiyero ted talk. if i were like charles dickens or whoever and i was getting paid by the word to write about fiyero, i could be so goddamn rich btw.

anyways, choices and consequences!!!!! like that's the whole thing!!!!!!! and the way our choices affect and change other people!!!! fiyero isn't an exception to any of that!!!!

you're so right that fiyero is truly the one who makes the ultimate sacrifices for elphaba. like glinda loves elphaba, she absolutely does. but she isn't able to take on the work and life that elphaba chooses in defying gravity.

when it comes to the things that are most important to her, glinda prioritizes comfort and reputation over, like, morality and principle. and the thing about glinda is that she actively makes this choice. she chooses not to go with elphaba. she wants elphaba to succeed, but she's not brave enough to join her. in order for glinda to find the bravery to take up the work elphaba starts, she has to lose everything that actually matters. and she has to be complicit in her own losing of those things.

fiyero loves elphaba to the point of sacrificing all of those things that glinda can't resist. the day with the lion cub, and elphaba's general influence on him, changes fiyero profoundly in a similar way that she affects glinda, but fiyero finds the bravery to act on all of that. the difference is that he doesn't get the choice to go with her until mid-act 2 after wonderful.

in thank goodness, there's that one exchange between fiyero and glinda where they say smth like "you just can't resist all of this" "well who could?" "you know who could, and who has." and he's talking about elphaba, he's talking about how she had all the love she ever wanted at the tip of her fingers when she met the wizard, and she chose to let it go because she saw the ugly parts of the wizard's world. and this exchange is so clearly boiling it down to "elphaba resisted the temptation of being universally/publically loved and glinda did not." which tbh is something so in character for a person who has never had that, and a person who has always had that and thus doesn't want to leave it behind.

ok i was going somewhere with this but i don't remember where. just. fiyero isn't a perfect character. and for SURE the choice to erase gelphie's romantic subtext from the book when adapting it for broadway was an act of homophobia. but if we're just looking at musical canon, fiyero is brave enough to give up everything first to save elphaba, then to go with her, and then to protect her. and so-called elphaba stans don't think that's good enough. which is CRAZY to me.

also like. he's literally not the comphet love interest. sorry you didn't mention that but i keep seeing people throw those words around and like that's not what's happening here guys. elphaba loves him. she sings a whole song about it. multiple, even.

comphet implies that she mistakenly thinks she loves him because society has molded her into believing that's how she should be (fyi if anyone's experiencing that, it's glinda but i digress). elphaba, who notably has never been able to comply to the mold society makes for women, because she's never been pretty white woman enough to be afforded a place in that society? you mean that elphaba?

guys elphaba just...loves him. that's all there is to it. she loves him when she realizes he's more than he thinks he is, more than the airs he puts off. she loves him when she feared he might have changed, she loves him when he proves he did change--for the better. she loves him when he sticks by her, when he chooses her. she loves him when he's a fucking SCARECROW. ("go ahead, touch, i don't mind" "you're still beautiful" lives in my head rent fucking free).

when she has her breakthrough "okay. fuck this world that has never been good to me, if you want me to be wicked, i'll be wicked" moment, it's because she loses fiyero. she gets betrayed by nessa, and she fails dillamond, and she loses fiyero--and it's then that she loses sight of what good she had begun fighting for. it's a love for fiyero that drives most of no good deed (broadway songs of all time btw). like sorry but you dont sing someone's name like that if you don't love them. that's just musical theatre rules. trust me i was a theatre major.

anyways. sorry for that detour. back to the point. twitter treats everything as so black and white which is crazy because this is a revisionist musical about how evil isn't black and white. like?????? whatever. imagine being so bitter about a character you dislike that you want to change fundamental pieces of your favorite character so that he isn't relevant.

look. gelphie is great doomed yuri and i support that so hard. but dont try to tell me fiyero isn't deeply important to elphaba and to understanding elphaba's character. tbh the love triangle here isn't fiyero choosing between glinda and elphaba. it's more like elphaba choosing between glinda and fiyero and what either of them represent to her (glinda and working within the system, or fiyero, and abandoning it).

and hot take maybe but like ultimately--as someone who has never been conventionally accepted, as someone who has been hunted down to be murdered, as someone who has been the victim of a smear campaign and propaganda against her character/intentions, all of which was in part driven by glinda--she was always going to choose fiyero.

i respect gelphie shippers, i do. in another world, maybe one without the wizard, they could've been so happy together. i'm with y'all. but given canon, even if all others fall, i will be the last fiyero defender standing. god i hope movie-only fans watch part 2 and at least learn to RESPECT him. at the bare minimum. please. please. please.

[mistercrowbar]

Funny to see how asexual characters often end up with hypersexualized characters or those who sexualize others. Out of all the characters to romance, Aldiirn chose the ones whose life revolves primarily around sex/seduction (Astarion or Mizora). Maybe it's a way to experience sexuality vicariously? What do you think?

@satanicspinosaurus has said a lot to me how safe spaces for asexuals and people who have experienced SA tend to overlap and that’s where Aldiirn and Astarion end up. Like their relationship takes off in Act 2 once sex is officially off the table and they can just enjoy being together and having fun other ways without that pressure looming.

Aldiirn has plenty of other reasons to like Astarion though. He’s got a wicked sense of humour, his theatrics are entertaining, and his impulsiveness keeps Aldiirn on his toes and handily breaks any analysis paralysis. There’s also that Astarion doesn’t hesitate to complain and is pretty clear on what he wants and doesn’t want, which makes him easier for Aldiirn to be around. Whereas with like, Gale, Aldiirn thinks they’re just building a friendship and is blindsided when Gale has interpreted it as so much more.

[evangelifloss]

Hey, I just red your amazing fight analysis and I want to know what you think about the scene where the bartender at the continental bar in the first movie says to John that he looks „vulnerable“. Do you think it’s the look in his eyes or the way he acts or moves ? (Which in my opinion look pretty normal) and how do you think John was before he left the business? Was he more cruel with his kills ?

I'm guessing you mean this scene, right? I hope so because I made this gif JUST for this ask since I LOVE what you've sent in. Thank you @persephone411 💖💖

To answer why the bartender picks up on John's vulnerability without him seemingly displaying any signals, I'll first and foremost use what I know of the later instalments regarding John's behaviour. And that is how much he speaks. Between movies 1 and 2, there's only a 15 word difference in regards to how many lines of dialogue he has (1st movie has 484, 2nd has 499) and for a movie that has a run time of 1 hour and 40-ish minutes, that's not alot of dialogue to begin with.

Take for example, Jack Sparrow from the 1st Pirates of the Caribbean movie. Reading through the script, I counted roughly 490 lines of dialogue from him and that movie has a runtime of 20 minutes LESS than John Wick 1!

So we know that John isn't a talker. Yet, when he finds himself back at the Continental bar, and reunites with the bartender who knows him very well, and given how familiar they are (her excitement at seeing him, a brief hug/cheek kiss) it becomes apparent that John is more... open. He doesn't just order a drink and say nothing else. He engages with her, and expresses, "She (helen) was more than I deserved." Which by all accounts expresses a softer side to John, an admission that he is not impervious to grief. Assassins don't do that. Retired he may still technically be, he is still in a room full of people who are NOT retired, who could overhear and see the man behind Baba Yaga. That sentimentality can get you killed in the Assassin world.

Secondly, his face is sporting a few rough marks, and I very much doubt John the Baba Yaga would show himself at the Continental bar sporting proof he can be injured.

As my final thought, for me personally, it's his tone and his eyes that give away his grief. His inner turmoil that will eventually overflow into a bloody tsunami. The micro-movements of his face as he pauses, when he looks away, and even when he greets her, the man is Tired. The man is not at this point in time, the Baba Yaga.

The second part of your ask is very interesting because we have almost next to nothing to go off of! No prequels (thank god) and barely any direct Lore other than what others speak about John which ironically, is missing direct context which leaves us viewers to speculate.

The John we know is the old John. The grieving John. The Man. We get glimpses of what he used to be, and how characters react upon hearing his name but we never get the Baba Yaga. Not entirely.

Continuing off this, my personal speculation is that John wasn't a vicious killer. He was an incredibly efficient one. You can buy time with a sadist if you are able to withstand them long enough for help to arrive but you cannot do the same towards someone whose only goal is to kill you on sight. As quickly as possible. And that someone also happens to be the best of the best. Combine those two skills and I think that is what makes Baba Yaga so terrifying to those in the underworld. It was enough for Viggo, head of a massive Russian syndicate, to go silent upon hearing the name despite knowing John had been retired for 5 years!!

On another note, and this barely gets touched upon but throughout the movie you come to know that for such a silent and deadly killer, John has a weird amount of people willing to die for him.

The High Table actively discourages and creates a continually hostile environment amongst assassins so that bonds and genuine alliances/friendships can't begin nor be maintained and yet... look how many people are willing to so far for John.

This speaks to the level of respect and integrity John must have to simultaneously be a deadly killer AND to not be hated by everyone.

He does his job well but he is not cruel. He will not endanger unrelated persons if he can help it, he is sincere and loyal.

It's why the High Table fuckin hates him.

[alsmediadissection]

˗ˏˋ glinda's relationship with Fiyero (comphet or genuine?) analysis ´ˎ˗

!! i want to preface this by saying i'm not a professional critic, and this is not a 100% guide to anything either. do not take anything i type online to absolute heart, this is simply my personal interpretation of this piece of media !! (i also want to mention that i did not read the Wicked novel/series by Gregory Maguire)

! CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR ACT 2 IF YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED THE WHOLE MUSICAL !

In Wicked, the romantic relationship between Glinda and Fiyero serves as a key element of Glinda’s character arc and offers rich ground for analysis. Examining their relationship through the lens of compulsory heterosexuality (comphet) and genuine affection reveals the layers of complexity in Glinda’s motivations and emotional growth. By delving into the nuances of their interactions and the broader context of Glinda’s character, we can explore whether her feelings for Fiyero stem from societal expectations or an authentic connection.

To begin, we can just acknowledge Glinda's compulsory heterosexuality (comphet) and her pursuit of perfection. Glinda’s initial attraction to Fiyero can be interpreted as a product of compulsory heterosexuality, a concept that describes how societal norms compel individuals—particularly women—to engage in heterosexual relationships as a marker of success and normalcy.

Societal Expectations:

As a young woman obsessed with popularity and appearances, Glinda may view a relationship with Fiyero as a way to solidify her status. Fiyero, as a charming and socially desirable figure, fits perfectly into the image Glinda wants to project.

Her early interactions with Fiyero, marked by superficiality and performative flirtation, suggest that her interest in him is driven more by how he enhances her social standing than by genuine emotional connection.

Internalized Heteronormativity:

Glinda’s world is steeped in traditional gender roles and heteronormative ideals (and we can presume this bc of the literal design of her character). Her pursuit of Fiyero may reflect an unconscious adherence to these norms, where romantic and marital success are viewed as the ultimate validation of a woman’s worth.

Though Fiyero and Glinda have moments of genuine connection, it doesn't even compare to the obvious contrasting connection that Fiyero (AND GLINDA) have with Elphaba. Fiyero’s eventual romantic turn toward Elphaba highlights a key distinction in his relationships with Glinda and Elphaba, which also informs an analysis of Glinda’s feelings for him. Fiyero’s relationship with Elphaba is rooted in mutual understanding and shared ideals. His love for her grows as he recognizes her courage, intelligence, and integrity. This depth stands in stark contrast to his earlier, more superficial connection with Glinda. Glinda’s response to Fiyero’s love for Elphaba is nuanced. While she is hurt, she ultimately accepts his choice without bitterness, reflecting her growth and the possibility that her love for him may have been more idealized than deeply felt.

Oh and the complexity of Glinda grows with her queer subtext (more comphet). If we read Glinda as a queer or lesbian woman, her relationship with Fiyero gains additional layers of complexity. Glinda’s deep connection with Elphaba, marked by moments of intense affection and admiration, contrasts sharply with her more performative relationship with Fiyero. This contrast could suggest that her true emotional fulfillment lies in her bond with Elphaba rather than in traditional heterosexual relationships. In a heteronormative society like Oz, pursuing a relationship with Fiyero allows Glinda to conform to societal expectations while suppressing any feelings that deviate from these norms.

Not to even mention the beautifully tragic undertones of Glinda's choices. Whether Glinda’s feelings for Fiyero are rooted in comphet or genuine affection, their relationship ultimately reflects the constraints placed on her by societal norms and her own insecurities. Glinda’s decision to let go of Fiyero and support Elphaba reflects her growth and her recognition of the limitations of her relationship with him. She prioritizes her friendships and her sense of justice over her personal desires. By the end of the musical, Glinda stands alone, having relinquished both Fiyero and Elphaba. Her solitude underscores the sacrifices she makes in her journey toward self-awareness and leadership, suggesting that her growth comes at the cost of personal fulfillment.

This literally means that Glinda gave up Fiyero for her bestfriend. SHE CARED MORE ABOUT THE HAPPINESS OF HER "BESTFRIEND" THAN HER LITERAL BOYFRIEND. like cmon dont play with me.

Glinda’s relationship with Fiyero straddles the line between comphet and genuine affection, shaped by societal pressures, personal insecurities, and moments of authentic connection. Whether viewed as a performative pursuit of societal ideals or a genuine (if imperfect) bond, her relationship with Fiyero ultimately serves as a catalyst for her growth. By examining Glinda’s feelings for Fiyero alongside her deeper connection to Elphaba, we gain a richer understanding of her complexities as a character navigating the expectations and constraints of her world.

[spiribia]

you already know that when wicked pt 2 comes out the music analysis channels are going to play a snippet of For Good and go "You've heard this melody before - in fact, it's been with us the whole time, hailing all the way back to Act I...the very start." with a montage of clips of the instrumental tune playing during their moments. and then the commenter's going to be like "This is the theme (thoughtful pause) of Elphaba and Glinda's friendship. By the time you hear it fully realized, it's already familiar to you - like an old friend."

[contrarian-grammarian]

Glindafication, or the Trap of Persona in Wicked (2024)

So I recently saw Wicked for the second time in theaters (this week). As a longtime fan of the musical, I think I'm one of the few people who has always loved the love triangle in it... actually, I think I'm one of the few people in fandom spaces who is willing to be open about loving love triangles when all of the characters are narratively and/or emotionally connected. Idk what to tell you other than I love mess and when shipping echoes the themes of the text.

Anyway, that's a longwinded way of saying that while the movie adaptation didn't make many changes to the story (including not adding a lot of extra Fiyero/Elphaba scenes, which I thought they might given how much that ship drives the plot in Act 2), I thought it highlighted/made me realize a number of things about Elphaba, Glinda, and especially Fiyero that I think are both really interesting character moments and foreshadow their eventual arcs in Act 2. (Spoilers for all of Act 1 below).

:readmore:

Most of this character analysis is coming from one scene that really stood out to me in the film, even though it is basically unchanged from the musical. It's a very small moment between Elphaba and Fiyero, right after 'Popular' (though I think we can assume some time has passed in the actual timeline) and right before Dr. Dillamond is fired. Elphaba is practicing her hair tossing that she's learned from Glinda, and the camera cuts to Fiyero, watching her with a slight smirk, who then says: "You've been Galindafied." Pause. "You don't need to do that."

I didn't really notice this on my first watch--like I said, it's almost the exact same dialogue as in the musical--but it did stand out to me on my second watch because of a few other acting choices for F & E that I will point out later. But on my second watch, I was like, "Wait... what do you mean, 'Galindafied' (derogatory)?" Dude, that's your girlfriend?

In Act 1 of the musical, Fiyero presents way more sincerely as a male version of Glinda. He makes a much ruder comment about Elphaba in their first meeting, and (at least in the stage versions I've seen) really seems settled into his playboy persona in 'Dancing Through Life.' However, in the movie, I think it becomes clearer earlier on (due to the sincere interest displayed in his and Elphaba's first meeting, as well as some other small acting choices during his first meeting with Galinda) that Movie!Fiyero does not actually like fakeness. Which means he doesn't like himself, because he knows how fake he is.

I think in Fiyero's mind, he is two people: Fake Fiyero, who is selfish and shallow and stupid and hot, and Real Fiyero, who knows that Fake Fiyero sucks and it's all a bullshit cover to make his life easier. And Real Fiyero is onto Galinda in a heartbeat--at least, the version that he first sees of her, which I'm sure he considers Fake Galinda. In Fiyero's mind--as seen when he compliments her machinations with Boq and Nessa--Fake Galinda is selfish and shallow and manipulative and hot. And he thinks Fake Fiyero and Fake Galinda "deserve each other" (derogatory).

Interestingly, I think Glinda also knows about Fake Glinda and Fake Fiyero... but she thinks they're the best versions of themselves. In Glinda's mind, everyone is supposed to wear their shiniest, most perfect versions of themselves as a mask in front of their real face. It's why 'Popular' happens right after she connects with Elphaba--in Glinda's mind, the best thing for Elphie is to develop her mask, so that everyone else can learn to love her too. Glinda is aware that it's possible to love the person under the mask--that's how she feels about Elphie and Fiyero ("I don't even think he's perfect anymore and I still want him!") but the mask is preferred.

To tie this back to the Galindafied scene, I think Fiyero sees someone doing what he thinks is the height of bravery at the OzDust dance--being themselves, unabashedly, in front of everyone despite the mockery. "I'll say this for her, she doesn't give a twit what anyone else thinks," is, in Fiyero's mind, the best thing a person can be. He's obviously misreading how much Elphaba does care, because I don't think Fiyero can fathom how somebody could care and still do the brave/embarrassing thing, but when Glinda explains that Elphaba really does care, he becomes even more impressed. And when Glinda joins Elphaba and then they both run out of the ball together, you can tell by the look on his face that he's just been impressed by both of them.

And then, it's the next time he's alone with Elphaba, and she's doing Fake Galinda's hair toss. And Fiyero's like, goddammit. He thought that Elphaba and Glinda might both be real, and now Glinda's making Elphaba into a Fake Elphie. And he's done the fake persona thing himself, he's going to keep doing it, but he really doesn't want Elphaba to think that's her only solution. That Fake Glinda is better than Real Elphaba, and she needs to change for people to like her.

In the musical, "You don't need to do that" always kinda came across to me as a "you're not like other girls" line, but Movie!Fiyero's delivery comes across as both very sincere and something of a warning. He's willing to play a fake person, and he's willing to date a fake person, but he knows perfectly well that being fake sucks, and he doesn't want Elphaba to do it. And Real Fiyero, who's not stupid or selfish, follows this advice with another comment that could never come from Fake Fiyero: "C'mon, let's get to class." And Elphaba gives a small smile before following him. Because, for the first time, I think she appreciates that Real Fiyero exists, and that he would stand up for Real Elphaba.

And speaking of Elphaba... Once she becomes friends with Glinda and Fiyero, Elphaba basically ignores the false front that Glinda and Fiyero put up and judges them based on how they see themselves. Like Fiyero, she prefers their real selves to their fake shells, but she accepts all of the parts of them that they accept. Which is why she is so much more patient with Glinda than Fiyero. She sees that Glinda is both much happier and more integrated into her mask role, and sees that it still allows her to have a basically good heart. (It's also why she's so accepting of Glinda's decision not to leave with her in the end.) She prefers the real, genuinely kind Glinda, but she can accept Fake Glinda as a protective covering.

But Elphaba sees that Fiyero is deeply unhappy with his persona, and tells him--as he just told her--you don't have to do that. "No, you're not. Otherwise you wouldn't be so unhappy." She knows that it's harder to go through life as a Real Person, but it is possible--and now she's learned that it's even possible to have friends.

At the same time, Elphaba, who otherwise is so clear about her friends' true selves, is still incredibly blind about her own worth and identity. And if she can't (or chooses not to) be Galindafied, she'll have to build a different type of mask/persona to protect herself from getting hurt. And she chooses the role of the lonely outsider who would never even be considered as an option for romantic love. "He could be that boy... but I'm not that girl." That ends up being her Fake Elphaba... one that I'm very interested to see how she sheds in Act 2.

[midnightrain-and-cleandays]

Born wicked(my thoughts/ analysis on wicked)

Hello everyone! So a couple of days back I asked if yall would like my thoughts on Wicked and alot of you said yess sooo here we are. Now before we start i do wanna say i will also be doing an analysis in this post. Because as someone who has spent years in the hannibal fandom i have had multiple conversations with people about the analysis of the show so of course i have to bring that into this post so let’s begin and hopefully you guys enjoy!.

I first remember watching the movie, it had such a great first impression on me, i’ve seen alot of musical movies and this one was of my favorite movie musicals i’ve seen.

It has so much depth and deep meaning to it and after learning more about it im genuinely so impressed by how they did this movie, there are four scenes in the movie that kind show how much detail they put into this movie.

1. Is elphie and Glinda first meeting and glinda saying she doesn’t care what people think and elphie calling her out saying yes you do.

2. Which goes into scene two where we get the OZdust scene where when everyone is watching Elphie dance we see feiryo say “she doesn’t care what people think “ and glinda says “yes she does “

This is one of my all time favorite parallels because of multiple reasons, in several instances throughout the movie we see how much Glinda does definitely care what people think specially while at shiz everyone loves her, she has two people who follow her everywhere and specially because in the scene where Glinda is getting ready for the OZdust scene and the Hat is brought out and one of her friends point out how it’s “ugly “ she is suddenly trying to find an excuse as to why she has it.

Elphie reasons is so completely different, she always been over looked specially by her family, and the only way she really got attention was when she was supposed to look over NessaRoes. Then she gets to Shiz and suddenly all eyes are on her, but for the wrong reasons and along with the “wizard and i” scene, in the song we hear what Elphie truly dreams of and how desperately she wishes to be seen, how she wants to do good and how she wishes people could look past her green skin and genuinely see the good person she is.

Thats where we get back to the OZdust ball room scene and we get to the dance scene, and in that scene we start to see where Glinda and Elphie kinda don’t care what people think. Specially Glinda, this is one scene where she truly doesn’t care this one time even when her friends try and stop her and she still does the dance anyway.

Next is the defying gravity scene and the deleted scene where Elphie promises to not leave Glinda behind again.

In the defying gravity scenes we see them fighting and we saw them almost escaping together. Elphie kept her promise…till Glinda was the one we broke it, she couldn’t go with Elphaba and she had her reasons, we can speculate those and why she didn’t go. But in the end it was Glinda who broke that promise.

Those are just four scenes that add (and would add) so much depth to the movie, I genuinely love everything about it from the acting to the little details, specially the shoes that nessa gets at the beginning of the movie, in the original book the shoes weren’t red they were silver and I loved how they showed both pairs of shoes.

I also loved how even the second time you watch it you catch more than the first time you watched it. The movie has so much emotion and love put into it as well as thought, i also loved how they sung live, it makes the movie feel more real.

I genuinely felt it was a smart decision todo such a thing, and in all honesty I don’t think it would’ve done so well if they hadn’t of sung live. Of course they would’ve done amazing but not like they would have of they hadn’t of sung live.

So inclusion, this movie has a genuine 10/10 from me and one of my favorite 2024 movies, now that it’s out on streaming I would give it watch again (which i will be doing) and I would definitely recommend it to anyone interested in it.

[marcusnotbrutus]

thinking about all of the callbacks to judaism that occur in falsettos that are harder to catch if you aren't jewish yourself so i'm thinking of doing a deep analysis of each song, from the beginning. here's the first one:

Four Jews In A Room Bitching (Falsettos 1.1):

the most obvious here is that the entirety of this song is occurring during a passover seder, which celebrates the jews escaping slavery in egypt. in some sense this is also reflective of Marvin escaping the confines of heteronormativity, which to him is personified by Trina (who's singing "slavery" repeatedly throughout the entire song).

several other references to the seder occur, such as: "We crossed the desert / Running for our lives / Fleeing from the Pharaoh / Who was up to no good / Now we’re at the Red Sea / Pharaoh is behind us / Wanting us extincted".

the biggest least-obvious jew-joke in this song is the use of fours in the context of passover. this is a direct reference to the "four sons" story in the haggadah (the book which is read/sung through in a seder). the idea of this story is that the host of the seder is teaching the guests the story, and so each takes a role (wicked, wise, simple, and the one who doesn't know how to ask). however the questions aren't necessarily even about the story of passover, some are simply reflections of oneself. several jokes are made around this, such as: - "I'm nauseous, I'm nauseous, I'm simple, I'm Jewish", in which Jason is the only one saying the 'correct' version of the four sons - The order in which they are singing the the lines: Mendel, Jason, Marvin, Whizzer. I don't know if this is intentional, but this leads me to assume that the question that each person receives is specific to their character: 1. Mendel gets the very specific question “What are the testimonies, the statutes, and laws which Adonai our G-d has commanded you?”, which I believes sort of reflects his character of more or less conforming to societal expectations throughout the play, asking the questions he's supposed to ask. 2. Meanwhile, Jason then would follow with, “Whatever does this mean to you?”, and this is the "wicked" child, as he doesn't see the events unfolding in the seder as personal – although with Jason (as for the "wicked" child) perhaps he does, others simply think he doesn't. 3. Marvin is the simple child, the one that asks “What does this mean?”, reflective of his confusion of what his relationship with Whizzer means for his future in a heteronormative society. 4. Lastly, we have Whizzer, the "one who doesn't know how to ask", perhaps symbolizing his inability to truly communicate with Marvin about how he feels about their relationship and what he wants between them.

furthermore, there is a good chance that the repeated use of fours is also a reference to the fact that four glasses of wine are meant to be drunk during the seder (meaning people tend to act quite loopy by the end), which would also explain why the song gets faster and more inane as time goes on.

"four jews in a room stoop", a reference to davening, a prayer possession.

there's a couple of other things that I could put in here but a lot of it is extreme speculation.

[deeplyshalllow]

Hi!

I absolutely loved your analysis on the Fiyeraba train scene and I had some thoughts and questions to expand upon the discussion if that's alright.

What do you make of the scene where Nessa notices Boq's crush on Glinda and she hastily runs away? Because now with the deleted scene not being canon, I wondered whether there's a different route Boq and Nessa's storyline in For Good.

Also, I think Glinda and how she now feels about Fiyero is nuanced in the conversation between Elphaba and her after he leaves ("I don't think he's perfect anymore, and I still want him"). What do you think of Glinda's headspace during that conversation? Also, do you think it's a good change that Elphaba invited Glinda to come with her not out of guilt regarding Fiyero but because she genuinely wanted Glinda's dream to come true as well? Because "guilt" is also present in the script when Elphaba invites Glinda.

One last point - I noticed that in the stage version, Fiyero would play along and take Glinda by the hand when he would walk over to Elphaba, but here JB's Fiyero isn't playing along with being with Glinda, he's more distant and aloof. What did you make of this change? It makes Fiyero a little less douchy because in the stage version, he's actively using his relationship with Glinda as a cover for exploring his feelings for Elphaba while here he's slowly separating from Glinda and it's becoming more apparent to Glinda that something is going on between Elphaba and Fiyero.

Anyway, can't wait for your Fiyeraba predictions and other content!! 😃

following on from this essay

Firstly, I’m glad you enjoyed the analysis and yes you are always welcome to ask me more, analysing Wicked is my favourite thing to do right now lol.

“What do you make of the scene where Nessa notices Boq's crush on Glinda and she hastily runs away? Because now with the deleted scene not being canon, I wondered whether there's a different route Boq and Nessa's storyline in For Good.”

I’m honestly really, really nervous about the Boq and Nessa storyline in Part 2. I don’t really feel like there’s been enough focus on them in act 1 for us to either 1) see it as plausible for Nessa to turn out the way she does and 2) see exactly why Elphaba is so hurt by both of them being against her. 1) might be solved by the promised change of focus of Wicked Witch on the East on something other than her disability but 2) is really frustrating, because the screenplay reveals we had all the scenes we needed to show the Shiz gang becoming friends, they were just cut.

At the moment, with Boq and Nessa scenes, including this one, it feels like they’re doing the bare minimum to make it make surface level sense to the audience, but not enough for us to really care. So like, I guess I’m glad we got what we got, but I wish there was more. I do feel that Wicked is an ensemble show and perhaps the focus on the Gelphie friendship, while it has been great, has drawn away from other stuff (I just really want a director’s cut). Hopefully we’ll get to see the cut flashback somewhere in Part 2!

Also, I think Glinda and how she now feels about Fiyero is nuanced in the conversation between Elphaba and her after he leaves ("I don't think he's perfect anymore, and I still want him"). What do you think of Glinda's headspace during that conversation?

Yeah, I’ve had another reply about that in the comments of my Train Station essay and I think you’re right. It is more nuanced than just loving him less now he’s perfect. I guess, Glinda kind of always has had a plan in life, she’s going to get famous and be a great sorceress, marry a handsome prince, and live happily ever after! And her path there is starting to very slightly slip off track here – firstly it’s been changed to fit Elphaba in, and now Fiyero – who seemed perfect but now isn’t quite playing his part. I don’t think she necessarily dislikes him becoming different but it’s this push and pull between what she *thinks* her life should be and what it is becoming, and how this image contradicts with her real feelings (we even hear couldn’t be happier in the background, which is entirely this concept). So I guess it’s some degree of trying to get her life back on track, which we see expanded on a lot more in the Thank Goodness scene.

Also, do you think it's a good change that Elphaba invited Glinda to come with her not out of guilt regarding Fiyero but because she genuinely wanted Glinda's dream to come true as well? Because "guilt" is also present in the script when Elphaba invites Glinda.

Hmm. I think I like it as a change. The idea that they’re going because they value each other as friends – which is cuter and nicer. I’m still a bit undecided on whether I like what appears to be the toning down of the rivalry between Glinda and Elphaba over Fiyero – my instinct says it’s a good thing (it’s not the 00s anymore, we are sort of over love triangles) but I want to wait until part 2 and see how they handle it there to make my final decision.

Saying that I think guilt might have been the initial plan for the movie too. Apparently there’s a cut scene where Elphaba tells Galinda about the Lion Cub, and Galinda is upset that they left her and Elphaba promises her she’ll never abandon her again and that’s why she invites her to join. And thank god they cut that scene, partly because it again cheapens the invite scene, but also because I don’t really think it’s in character for Elphaba, who is a little embarrassed and ashamed about her feelings for Fiyero, to admit they saved the Cub together like that – nor Galinda – who is quite sure about her feelings, to get another clue towards Elphaba and Fiyero’s feelings.

One last point - I noticed that in the stage version, Fiyero would play along and take Glinda by the hand when he would walk over to Elphaba, but here JB's Fiyero isn't playing along with being with Glinda, he's more distant and aloof. What did you make of this change? It makes Fiyero a little less douchy because in the stage version, he's actively using his relationship with Glinda as a cover for exploring his feelings for Elphaba while here he's slowly separating from Glinda and it's becoming more apparent to Glinda that something is going on between Elphaba and Fiyero.

Honestly, I think it’s down to the fact that Jonathan’s Fiyero has basically memorised all he has to say. He’s got nothing at all on his mind except “I need to stop chickening out and tell her this right now, and nothing is going to stop me.” So I don’t think he’s even really thinking about Galinda at all (I think with the way he interrupts her too, he barely even notices she’s speaking). With a lot of the stage Fiyeros, he seems to be thinking of the words to say on the spot and the awkwardness comes from there, with him also having to therefore react to what Galinda says and be very conscious she’s there too and he doesn’t want to say too much. While, given he has planned what he has said in this version, he knows he’s not going to say something that he shouldn’t in front of Glinda

In terms of him taking her by the hand, I just had a quick glance at the Ryan McCartan Slime tutorial to watch the train station scene, and, at least with him, I read it more as “Glinda, come over with me, to see our friend,” rather than him actively using Glinda to pretend he’s only friends because of her? But I imagine that might change depending on Fiyero.

I honestly think quite a lot of the problems with the love triangle in the second act are because Elphaba leaves. Had they stayed at Shiz, the problems might have resolved themselves, with Galinda being mostly gracious when she realised Fiyeraba loved each other more – the Flinda relationship I think is still quite shallow at this stage. And this scene could have just been the first step towards it working. Unfortunately by act 2, Flinda has got very complicated, by the fact that Fiyero and Glinda have clung onto each other by necessity, being the only ones who they can talk to about Elphaba – so Glinda feels very betrayed when Fiyero gives all that up to just run with Elphaba.

[blueishspace]

Third part of my Pearl Double Life pov rewatch/ analysis.

The finale.

P1 / P2

Episode 5. Reunion.

Session 5, finally, Pearl and Scott working together again and it doesn't really look bad, like they act way more calmly then I expected them to. Like, Pearl's ends session 4 on absolute low and yet... She's ok? She's there with Scott and Cleo making jokes about other people and not being mean to eachother whatsoever. All antagonism in this section is done by Pearl in the form of slightly suggesting they aren't friends in front of BigB and even then she's not even being serious about it. She has gone full circle, lost her mind so much she's back to normal or something... And then she goes manic again but it was nice while it lasted.

And then Scar comes again, this time with cactus, and Pearl despite being completely chill with Scott, the pettiest member of the life series, at this point in time and she still jumps onto cactus. Not even for Scott, not really, I don't think she even tought of him during the whole thing. She literally jumps on the cactus for fun and no other reason whatsoever.

And the thing is Scott and Cleo haven't called Pearl insane in the whole session, earlier Cleo called her "ultrasonic" over saying she's insane. They are clearly trying to not use that specific word around her for her sake. And when he tells Grian and Scar to leave he corrects himself and tells Pearl to make them leave, ultimately giving Pearl the final say. But Grian and Scar don't really care, they play it up, it is the perfect plan because "no one wants to deal with Pearl's insanity" and only then does Cleo use to word and they do so only to say that they have.

While Scar and Grian use Pearl's insanity as a way to scare off reds... Trying multiple times and then ditch her... Scott and Cleo bring her aside and give her enderpearls to give her a chance to escape. Sure It's strategic since Scott and Pearl share health but Grian and Scar are litterally horrible to her and nobody ever cares. Justice for Pearl!

Episode 6 p.1 Something wicked.

This session starts with a bit of espionage, I forgot about that actually... This rewatch is making me notice how I forgot about older series... Still there is surprisingly little Scott-Pearl interactions that are either negative or very positive... Except she says to the reds that Scott and Cleo wouldn't trust her and she's straight up lying about that because she just said that she has connection with them at all. Also she's really good at lying because to trow off suspicion she pretends they are there listening in when they are not as far she knows.

Also the red keep killing her dogs, she's not having a good time, she's having an awful time, she's so distressed she can't even be unhinged.

Episode 6 p.2 The End.

Voilà, they talk about it finally... and it doesn't do anything.

Why? Because they talk about it but don't communicate, they forgive eachother both of them keep the idea they had, they both believe they are fully in the right.

Scott still cannot seem to grasp how hurt Pearl and Pearl cannot see how going to the nether hurt Scott.

So they talk but no communication actually happens.

Still this brings me to Wild Life, Pearl makes sarcastic comments about Double Life despite her forgiving Scott at this specific point in time so uh alright... And then Scott dies and she with him. And she ditches him as karma, despite forgiving him.

Also, Scott suggests the Tilly death do us apart here. It's not something that he comes up with in the last confrontation. It's a thing he and Pearl come up together with at this specific point in time while they split off.

Finally half a session, the finale. I think there's not much to say that hasn't been said already. But neither of them expected to win, Scott choice is made in a rush because something he didn't expect happened and he just happened to have tnt. This could have gone so differently if he didn't. Some people say that "Tilly death do us apart" upon inspection doesn't really makes sense as a line but he didn't really have time to come up with a different one did he? Again, them winning was not expected. So he said something he and Pearl come up with at the start of the session and stuck with it.