#wicked movie meta

[deeplyshalllow]

An In Depth Study of Fiyero and Elphaba's interactions in the Dancing Through Life/Ozdust Scene in Wicked the Movie

As a follow on from the post I made the other day analysing the Fiyeraba movie meeting scene, I wanted to do an analysis on the movie’s take on the other Fiyero and Elphaba interactions.

I am writing an analysis of the Lion Cub scene too, but it’s over 1000 words and they’re still only on their bikes. So I thought I’d split this up and post the DTL/Ozdust Fiyeraba analysis. It’s a small one, give Fiyero and Elphaba don’t speak to each other during this scene, but there’s some interesting things to note.

The moment where Fiyero waves at Elphaba, while Elphaba rolls her eyes at him is a good way to confirm both of their feelings about each other in this moment. Fiyero has no hard feelings about Elphaba from the day before (and he’s certainly not taken his cue from how the rest of the student body treats her). If anything, she’s interested him and it’s made him more determined to befriend her and prove he’s got nothing against her. Elphaba, however, still thinks he’s like everyone else and is mocking her for her skin, and him playing up the dumb playboy act even louder, now he has an audience, is not helping at all, and she leaves mid scene. While we see Elphaba’s views of Fiyero at this stage in the musical with this line “It's absurd! This silly, rich boy appears and everyone's off to worship him at some cultish social gathering!” getting Fiyero’s feelings for Elphaba here is new and is a nice addition to his character.

The second important moment is Fiyero’s line in the Ozdust about Elphaba, “Well I’ll say this much, she doesn’t give a twig what anyone thinks.” It is a line taken directly from the musical but it hits slightly differently here. In the musical this line is said because Fiyero cares so much about what everyone else thinks that he rewrites his entire personality and he envies Elphaba for apparently not doing the same. The thing is, with the meeting scene in the movie where Fiyero calls out Elphaba’s defensiveness, we know that Fiyero has already sussed out Elphaba uses aggression as a defence mechanism, he knows she cares what other people think and puts on an act too – so instead this line can be read as Fiyero going “I’m impressed she’s brave enough to do what she wants despite knowing people will judge her for it” which has a nice link to him admiring what she does in Defying Gravity at the beginning of Act 2, “You know who could [resist being popular for doing what is right]. Who has.” As well as foreshadowing his act 2 character development when he too gives up the love of the people to do what is right.

We also get a few shots of Fiyero dancing along enthusiastically and looking admiringly at Galinda and Elphaba together through the Gelphie dance scene. It’s actually toned down from in the musical where he’s the first to go over and talk to Elphaba and Galinda when everyone starts joining in, (which I get – he doesn’t really need to be in this important Gelphie moment), but I think what it does imply is finally a change in Elphaba’s attitude towards him. She’s given Galinda a second chance, Galinda joining in has allowed her to let her guard down and Fiyero, as always is nothing but supportive of her. It’s very easy from this scene to see that, logically, Elphaba will be happy to start afresh with her perception of Fiyero too.

Analysis of Fiyeraba interactions in the Lion Cub Scene in the movie

An In Depth Study of Elphaba and Fiyero in the Train Station Scene

[musashi]

i want more nuance to be entered into the discussion of the green girl sorority and how differently cynthia plays elphaba in comparison to those who came before her because while a lot of people are rightfully like "why was elphaba not black from the beginning" and celebrating that she is now being played by a black woman, i think we need to be careful in just writing off all the elphabas of the past as Random White Girls when the role was championed (and often followed/succeeded) by a jewish woman

the pop culture archetype of the Wicked Witch has deep roots in antisemitism stretching faaaar far back. there is a level of reclamation happening in casting idina menzel, a jewish woman, to play the Misunderstood and Maligned young girl who is branded as exactly that. and stage!Elphaba is also written and acted with jewish stereotypes in mind--she is loud, aggressive, no-nonsense, blunt. she is quick to advocate for herself and shut down the discrimination she faces. all of this is very intentional! her personality is abrasive from years of abuse, and that makes propagandizing her easy. this is literally the thesis statement of the musical--it's not about aptitude, it's the way you're viewed.

cynthia's performance of elphaba is fucking INSPIRED despite going in a completely different direction. she's much more reserved, analytical, one of her key character traits is how well she can read people (see her calling out Galinda as insecure/putting on airs in their first scene together, clocking that Fiyero is using his party guy persona as a shield for his own depression) elphaba's attempts to blend in and make herself smaller all fail simply because of her existence, if not that then because she feels empathy so strongly she often struggles to hold back from acting, protecting.

personality wise, though, cynthia's elphaba is very quiet and closed-off, not at all the bullet-to-the-face that she is in the stage show, and... she still gets propagandized and maligned. though this seems to contradict the other interpretation, it tells of the other end of the spectrum of propaganda, one that black women watching (and many, MANY other marginalized folks) are sure to identify with--it does not matter how "nice," how reserved, how small a black woman makes herself. a racist society will still scrutinize her every action for a way to parse ill intent from it, brand her as an angry black woman who is dangerous and wicked, and write off any humanity she has in the process.

these two very different interpretations tell of the lie of assimilation. the fact of the matter is, when you are marginalized, there is no way to sand down your edges enough to make the people oppressing you "accept" you. that is why wicked is a tragedy at its core. whether loud and aggressive or quiet and unimposing, there is nothing elphaba could have done to make the people of Oz see her as anything other than a scapegoat to blame all their problems on.

so while i definitely appreciate that people are excited for black girl era elphaba, i would encourage us all to still show appreciation for what came before--that was not white girl era elphaba. that was jewish girl era elphaba. two houses, both alike in dignity, two stories both worth being told.

[ladyantiheroine]

I’m thinking about Wicked tonight, specifically why Elphaba ends up with Fiyero instead of Glinda in the musical despite Elphaba and Glinda having the more well-rounded relationship.

You could chalk it up to the writers wanting a heteronormative ending (and I’m certain that’s part of it) or the fact that Elphaba and Fiyero had a love affair in the book. But I think there’s a bit more nuance to it.

The whole point of Glinda’s character is that she upholds the status quo of Oz. No matter how much she loves Elphaba or sympathizes with the plight of the Animals, she will always align herself with the current system and those in power. And as long as that remains the case, a relationship between her and Elphaba is futile because Elphaba will not give up her cause.

Elphaba and Glinda represent to different ends of a spectrum. Elphaba resists the oppressive forces in Oz, while Glinda upholds them. But Fiyero is somewhere in the middle. He starts out privileged and carefree like Glinda, but quickly turns to Elphaba’s side. He does become Captain of the Guard, but only to find Elphaba and help her evade arrest.

And therein lies the difference between Glinda and Fiyero as love interests to Elphaba. Glinda would never sacrifice her title as “the Good Witch” and all her power granted from the Wizard, even if it meant helping Elphaba. Fiyero, on the other hand, does give up his privilege, his title, and even his human form for Elphaba. Glinda clings to what the status quo gives her, while Fiyero ultimately rejects it.

Yes, the writing around Elphaba and Fiyero’s romance is a bit rushed and doesn’t have the same gradual development that Elphaba and Glinda have. And yes, I have no doubt heteronormativity played a role in giving Elphaba a male love interest in the end. But I see a lot of people write off Fiyero and his relationship with Elphaba and I just don’t agree.

Why does Elphaba end up with Fiyero instead of Glinda? Because Fiyero makes the sacrifices that Glinda wasn’t willing to.

[o-wild-west-wind]

The more I think about it, I actually REALLY like the choice in the Wicked movie to alter Elphaba and Fiyero’s introduction and to switch Avaric (I think?) from a human to a sentient Horse—because it adds the tiiiiniest bit of insight and foreshadowing into Fiyero’s character and his subsequent relationship with Elphaba.

Not only does it soften their introduction, but it also establishes him as someone who—while clearly seeing himself as superior in terms of rank—still views Animals as fellow people. He and the Horse have banter and camaraderie, and Fiyero explicitly uses “we” instead of “I.” He makes it clear that they’re both fully present with Elphaba in the scene.

That helps fill in the arguable plot hole of why Elphaba spares him (and not also Glinda) in the lion cub scene—he’s already established as someone who respects Animal autonomy in at least some capacity, and who she can reasonably trust to “get” the problem with Animal subjugation (something that Glinda, while just having proven her empathy for Elphaba specifically, hasn’t genuinely shown herself to understand yet). IMO, it subtly helps establish Elphaba and Fiyero’s relationship as one borne of political allyship (something that was really only subtextual in the stage show)—which is also part of why Glinda’s relationships with the both of them are tragically and inextricably doomed by the narrative.

anyway. we stan one (1) woke bisexual winkie prince

[yourleastfavoriteplaguerat]

thinking about fandom and wicked and how having three different iterations of a story impact one another in the current fandom climate. because on one hand, fan creators have, for as long as i can remember, been fucking with elphaba’s gender expression and/or identity. i think it comes along with the whole ‘being born different from your peers/being born in a body that others you/ostracization for something you can’t control’ narrative she has going on. you can always identify with and relate with elphaba if you’ve ever felt outcasted in some way. and the gender fuckery goes a step further if you look at the book and the whole ‘elphaba was born with both genitals’ thing because there’s A Lot that could be unpacked there. so while it’s not like, a fandom headcanon or widespread trend or anything, people do and have been ascribing varying levels of femininity and androgyny and masculinity to elphaba

but then again. the masculinization of black women is a real and damaging stereotype/bias. and in that case hackles can be (rightfully, imo) raised if fan content depicts cynthia erivo’s elphaba in a non-feminine way. because her particular elphaba is fairly feminine and there is like, an actual precedent of misogynoir both irl and in fandom spaces.

i don’t really know what to make of it. i’ve always thought that since elphaba’s story is so widely relatable that it would make sense for any actor of a stigmatized group to play her (be it jewish like idina or black like cynthia) but it never occurred to me to think about how a new (explicitly black) iteration of the character would impact previously established fandom practice as wicked becomes even more mainstream and a whole new audience joins the fandom. would the solution be to use idina’s elphaba in fan content that wants to mess with elphaba’s gender expression? i feel like that would introduce a whole new set of problems if someone was also using ariana’s glinda or writing a fic taking from the movie

[festivating]

what's absolute bonkers about gelphie's dynamic in the movie is that. the whole "loathing" part is presented so well. they don't hate each other, they're ANNOYED by each other because glinda fits in easily everywhere she goes and a part of elphaba envies that, and elphaba is exceptional at the thing that glinda wants most in this world.

and they have fun with it! through the whole of what is this feeling you can see their little smiles and their little pranks and constantly trying to outdo each other. and even "the artichoke is steamed" receives a little smirk of appreciation. they're enjoying this rivalry and banter! they're jealous of each other but there's a little bit of admiration for a game well played. it's soooo good.

[noheteroexplanation]

Glinda Upland + faceless

Bonus: becoming faceless when she is forced to turn away from Elphaba

[fandomspacenqueue]

Thinking about the scene after the Ozdust where Elphaba and G(a)linda are bonding over secrets and Elphaba tells Glinda the story of Nessa's birth and how she feels it's her fault. It's a genuinely touching moment where Glinda (rightfully) points out that it was the milk flowers' fault and not Elphaba's. But she also stops short of pointing out who actually is ultimately responsible, Elphaba's father who was the one to force her mother to eat the flowers in the first place. I don't know, this might be a bit of a stretch, but I can't help but notice a parallel to how in the climax Glinda keeps urging Elphaba to let the Wizard explain himself despite the fact that he already has and there's really no way to make "deliberately and maliciously scapegoating a certain segment of the population to give himself more control" any better. There's ostensibly some "benefit" to their actions - Governor Thropp trying to prevent another child of his being born green, the Wizard bringing people together - but at the end of the day their actions are objectively wrong. It's just that people either don't or refuse to see it, so those in power keep getting excuses made for them even when there is nothing that can excuse their actions.

[thestarlightforge]

Y’know, the Ariana/Cynthia/Ethan/Lena messy romance speculation seems mostly like people gleaning parasocial entertainment from folks we know almost nothing about. Their business to sort through, or not.

BUT, I will say—classically dramatic musical theatre kids though Cynthia & Ariana clearly are (/affectionate)—it’s uncommon to be as Gelphie-obsessed as Ariana is, for as long as she’s been, without being at least a little bit queer.

None of them grew up in the kindest world for queer people, and though her music and style became iconic amongst gay men, she was particularly under the (comp-het) public microscope throughout her adolescence.

So, I wish people wouldn’t be so intense about “shipping” real-life people we don’t know. But if Glinda and Wicked can help her find some queer liberation she’s been searching for, I’ll be happy for her 😌

[tunemyart]

my brain is super stuck right now on the dance scene in the Wicked movie again

not only because it was so incredibly beautifully done, and truly benefited from the ability to linger in closeups on expressions and show just what each character was thinking and feeling and the journeys they were on in a way the stageplay simply isn't able to do with the tools it's got

but also because of a shot I'd missed initially - a closeup on Fiyero.

historically I've always been very "yeah and Fiyero's there too" about the musical, and part of that's been that I've never really emotionally felt his attachment to either Galinda/Glinda or Elphaba.

but this shot I'm talking about - god I wish I had it to include here - is of Fiyero watching Galinda submit herself to potential humiliation to try to fix something she'd done to humiliate someone else. She's defiant of the crowd and her "friends" and surer of herself by the moment. She's becoming someone different right before his eyes. She's not the same girl he met even earlier that day. She's earnest. She's stripped herself of artifice. She's acting, probably for the first time in her life, in spite of what people are thinking or saying about her.

And he's breathless watching her.

I always laugh at the "you're perfect", "you're perfect!" "so we're perfect together!" because omg, they are. the worst. but more importantly, in that moment they're the same: genuinely self-absorbed, deeply shallow. Fiyero went along easily with Galinda pursuing him because he understood her.

But now Galinda, someone very similar to him, is modeling something new for him for the first time - something he's actually (surprise!) very attracted to. And watching his reaction to watching her, transfixed, it's obvious that this is the moment that he actually catches real feelings for her.

And with regards to the Galinda/Elphaba/Fiyero love triangle throuple relationship, I love that the movie gives us this small beat that actually blows everything else about their character development individually and in relation to each other wide open. That Galinda was actually the one to nudge Fiyero off of his "dancing through life" attitude? in this moment? and the implications that has for the entire rest of the play?

Whoa!

[chisterymalky]

No but it is interesting to comment how Elphaba's story could be also be read as an allegory for people with neurodivergencies, because a lot of elements of her character hit the spot.

She's picked on for being different, she has trouble being social, she's dedicated to a social cause she believes is important, people comment there's something "off" about her, even without the green skin, her family dismiss her struggles insisting her issues aren't as important as Nessarose's (iirc many neurodivergent people don't get diagnosed or their issues are ignored when they live with family members who have a more "visual" disability), she turns very trusting and loving to people who just show her basic kindness, she's passionate about the subject matter she studies (magic), she's very eloquent when speaking, uses her hands a lot when speaking...

Also "I'm not that Girl" hits harder with the allegory because the song then reflects how a person has been shunned by society all their life can't even be allowed to have something as simple as a relationship, since they'll always be seen as undesirable by others for things they cannot control.

[deeplyshalllow]

An in depth study of the Lion Cub Scene in the Wicked Movie

Elphaba and Fiyero's meeting

Dancing Through Life

Sorry it’s taken a little longer than I expected to come out with this essay, I’ve been busy general pre-Christmas stuff and then recreating the entirety of Heather the Musical with Funko pops – you know, the usual. In any case, in a way I’m glad that it’s taken slightly longer as it’s meant that the movie screenplay has come out in the meantime so I can make the odd reference to that.

[Elphaba practices her ‘toss, toss,’ Fiyero notices.]

“You’ve been Galindafied.” [smiles at her fondly,] “you don’t need to do that, you know. Come on, let’s get to class.”

This is essentially the same line as in the musical (though my best friend was quick to point out removed Fiyero imitating the ‘toss toss’ and I’m pretty sure she nearly walked out of the cinema in outrage), and I think it serves the same purpose. The idea that Galinda is indeed continuing on her mission to make Elphaba popular and Elphaba is somewhat receptive to it. Fiyero, though fondly, kind of thinks the whole thing is a little ridiculous and finds Elphaba fine the way she is.

This scene is actually the one most impacted by what was cut from the screenplay. In the screenplay version we do not have the “Let’s get to class” line as it’s actually set a considerable amount of time (potentially a few months) before the Lion Cub. I go into much more detail here but basically there is a montage between the “toss toss” scene and the Lion Cub scene that shows time passing and  Elphaba, Galinda, Fiyero, Nessa and Boq becoming friends.

Elphaba is wearing different clothes when she enters Dillamond’s classroom than in the “toss toss” scene, so I am going to take this as canon that there is still the same time jump, as it makes a lot more narrative sense (otherwise there’s very little time before Elphaba goes to the Emerald City for anyone to become friends). Therefore, by the scene in Dillamond’s classroom we are to assume a few months have passed, and Elphaba regards Fiyero as somewhat of a friend that she’s comfortable enough being around, if in a bit of a superficial “my best friend’s boyfriend” sort of way.

The scene continues mostly as it does in the musical, Doctor Dillamond tells the class he’s no longer permitted to teach, Elphaba is cross and tries to stop it, Doctor Dillamond is taken away. All this is expected and as expected of Elphaba’s character considering her previous scenes.

What is new is Fiyero’s reaction to Doctor Dillamond being taken away, he also stands up and shouts “hey!” he’s clearly not the only student distressed, but aside from Elphaba he appears the most distressed. It’s immediately clear that “Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters” is not as true as he makes it out to be. In my opinion, this is a very good change from the musical, as it sets up his actions later in the scene, he’s on Elphaba and the Animals’ side, he’s always been on their side.

Fiyero, however, does not react like Elphaba. After the initial outburst, he is silenced and sits down like the rest of the class (albeit he is one of the last to do so) and does not respond to her challenge to the class of “Are we all just going to sit here in silence?”  

Elphaba, never one for staying silent, like her musical counterpart, continues to challenge the teacher and get increasingly distressed through seeing the Cub in the cage (the premonition of seeing Dillamond in a cage here is, obviously, new to the movie and I think mostly serves to show how distressed she is – I don’t think she’s really realised what she’s seeing is the future, but it may haunt her later).

“Can you imagine a world where Animals are kept in cages and never learn to speak. This Lion Cub seems so frightened. What are we going to do?”

“I’m sorry, we?”

And here we see the dichotomy between Elphaba and Fiyero, both care, both are upset, but Fiyero is not one to spring to action in this situation without outside provocation – again, he’s sung an entire song about how he’ll get less hurt if he pretends not to care. While Elphaba wants to do something no matter what the cost, Fiyero is stuck on the practicalities of the situation: they are powerless students, they will immediately be stopped so, at least for now, he does not try.

“Well someone’s got to do something,” [Elphaba slams her hand on the desk, causing poppies to float in the air, putting everyone to sleep]

[Fiyero, stares around, not falling asleep but somewhat bewildered, Galinda falls asleep on his shoulder] “hey, hey, c’mere,” [lays Galinda’s head on the desk].

The spell going from making everyone crazy dance, to poppies putting everyone to sleep is a change for the movie, and I think a good one. I don’t think the crazy dance would have worked as well in film format, and the poppies is obviously a lovely reference to the Wizard of Oz – ultimately though, I don’t think it changes much about the narrative.

What I do find really interesting about this scene is the inclusion of Galinda and Nessa. In the musical, neither are in the class, so the casting of Elphaba’s spell seemed to imply that she didn’t magic Fiyero because he was the one person she liked. In here, the two of them are present, and are spelled too, so Fiyero being left out has got to be for a different reason – I read somewhere on Tumblr that apparently they’ve said this will be explored in part 2 and I hope so, because my reading is that it’s another sign that Fiyero alone cares as much about this as Elphaba.

“What is happening?”

“I don’t know, I got mad and...” [Elphaba notices that Fiyero has already got up and is heading towards the Lion Cub] “Fiyero, what are you doing?”

[Fiyero, having already got the Lion Cub out of the cage like the amazing, kitty saving, hero that he is]

“Well, are you coming?”

I love this. I love this so much. Script wise this is not very much of a change from the musical, in fact only one line of Fiyero’s is cut, “Alright just don't move! And don't get mad at me!” but the fact he moves the beat before, that the moment he realises there now is something they can do, which won’t get them stopped or in more trouble than the good they can do, he springs into action – does so much for his characterisation. It’s so very clear from this that he’s doing this because he cares about the Cub too, he’s doing because he wants to himself rather than to help Elphaba, I also like that the removal of this line takes away any idea of blame or frustration at Elphaba’s powers – Jonathan’s Fiyero never really judges her for being unusual.

This scene, both in show and film, is always excellent at showing why Fiyeraba suit each other. Elphaba is all passion and fire, she cares and will fight, but will also go in headfirst without thinking of the consequences. Fiyero, meanwhile, needs the spark of passion and push to act, but when he does act he is careful and tactical, he gets what he wants but in a way that smoothes the consequences of Elphaba’s rash actions and gets at least the majority of them out safely (see also: Throne Room Scene, Corn Field Scene).

There’s nothing particular to note in the bike scene, but I appreciate the cute reference to Mrs Gulch and Toto in the Wizard of Oz (that reference alone made me pleased I watched WOO a few days before I saw Wicked).

[Madame Morrible enters the classroom and sees everyone asleep] “What in the name of Oz?” [immediately writes a letter to the Wizard]

Not Fiyeraba related but I think it’s important to note what’s going on here. Madame Morrible has seen not only that Elphaba has cast a spell, but what she has cast the spell to do (to free an Animal). She’s not writing to the Wizard because she sees Elphaba is already talented enough to see the Wizard (as a first time viewer is led to believe), she’s speeding up the process so Elphaba is safely at the Wizard’s side before she can become any more pro Animal rights. It’s another great addition to canon, showing how much Morrible is in control even in act 1.

Also, Fiyero, who is also not in class, is completely overlooked, because being seen as a himbo often puts him beyond suspicion (she probably assumed he was just skiving off).

We have a few lines cut from the show here:

Elphaba: Careful! Don't shake him!

Fiyero: I'm not!

Elphaba: We can't just let him loose anywhere, you know. We have to find someplace safe...

Fiyero: Don't you think that I realize that? You must think I'm really stupid or something!

Elphaba: No, not really stupid.

These lines are in the screenplay so they’re a recent cut, but I think it’s still important to see the impacts of them being taken to. Again, we see the Fiyeraba relationship being a little less antagonistic than in the show. They still wind each other up a bit, because they defend themselves from the world in such radically different ways that they don’t quite understand the other at times (which we’ll see later in this scene), but they’re not actively sniping at each other in the movie. It’s times like this where we see their similarities, they are supporting the same cause, they have the same end goal in mind and, when they are both sure what they’re doing is right, they’re both very focused on getting it done.

It’s probably important to note that from here on out the musical and movie script is almost identical, so this becomes more of an analysis of the scene in both works, though I will point out where I think the movie particularly differs.

[Elphaba puts Lion Cub down so he can drink water] “I didn’t mean to scare you.”

“Why is it you’re always causing some sort of commotion?”

“I don’t cause commotions, I am one.”

“Yeah, well that’s for sure.”

Now the Lion Cub is somewhat safe, and resting Elphaba and Fiyero are finally given some time to think and interact.

These are musical lines, but again they hit differently with the meeting scene in the movie. Fiyero constantly uses derogatory humour about himself/his persona, so offhandedly that I’m not sure he even realises he’s doing it anymore. So it’s natural for him to think that Elphaba’s response is the same semi-joke at her own expense as he so frequently does to himself, so he plays into it.

“So you think I should just keep my mouth shut, is that what you’re saying?”

Elphaba, however, does not share quite the same self derogatory humour, any time she insults herself she truly means it. While Fiyero is desperate for people to see him for who he pretends to be, Elphaba wants people to like her for whom she really is. So she doesn’t see Fiyero’s reaction as him laughing at her joke, but instead as him also insulting her and, again, she goes on the defensive.

I get a feeling this also harks back to Elphaba’s relationship with her father, and the general reaction whenever she talked back or accidently did magic. Elphaba is used to being told to shut up, used to be seen as lesser and it’s just happened again with a boy she’s beginning to like and trust.

“What? No, no, I’m saying-”

And, again, Fiyero answers back, because he didn’t mean that – Elphaba puts him on the back foot once again when interacting with her – for all his smooth talking and easy charm Elphaba cuts right through it, because she simply will not let him act like that with her. If she is to trust him she needs to see his true feelings.

“Do you think I want to be this way?”

“I th-”

 “Do you think I want to care this much?”

“I mean-”

“I know that my life would be much easier if I-”

There’s so much self loathing in Elphaba’s feelings about herself, so much of an assumption that everything she does is the wrong thing, that she could be better. Fiyero has basically said nothing against her, even less than in the show. This is all her criticising herself.

But it’s interesting what she says. It’s not the usual “no your opinions on why I am green are stupid” stuff, it’s vulnerable stuff. It’s her admitting that all the things people say to her, and the way she’s treated hurt, that she would dearly like to just be normal. Without really realising it, she’s allowing Fiyero to see a lot more of herself that she usually lets on.

“Do you ever let anyone else talk?”

This is a mask slip for Fiyero. Not in a big way, but it’s him suddenly having to be direct and real with her. Elphaba makes Fiyero have to express real feelings and emotions (even if at the moment it’s mostly frustration).

“Sorry.”

Fiyero letting his mask slip breaks Elphaba out of her rant. Again, it’s the same in the musical, but I do think there’s an added part in the movie where it references Fiyero calling out her defensiveness in the first scene. It gives Elphaba a second to reassess and realise it wasn’t an attack. She apologises, she’s also out of her natural comfort zone of unrelenting defensiveness.

“I just-”

“But can I just say one more thing?”

[Fiyero motions for her to go ahead]

“You could have walked away back there”

The realisation the Fiyero isn’t attacking her has allowed Elphaba to rethink, and for it to sink in what Fiyero has actually done, that he didn’t just freak out and run away, that he cared, that he helped her. And I think this sobers her up a little, to question and to see Fiyero in a new light.

[Fiyero shrugs] “So?”

I always find this line so interesting, because Fiyero hasn’t noticed yet that his mask has slipped. He acted on instinct to help Elphaba, to save the Cub, we see here that Fiyero’s natural instinct to care about things has never been very well hidden (which is why the mask is completely off by the time we hit Act 2).

“So, no matter how shallow and self absorbed you pretend to be.”

“Um, excuse me, there is no pretence here, I happen to be genuinely self absorbed and deeply shallow.”

I love this line. Obviously I love this line. I’ve loved it for 15 years. Have you seen my username?

But anyway, now he’s been made aware of what he’s been called out for Fiyero pulls himself back, tries to put his walls up again.

It’s interesting, because this line is obviously an old one, but it fits very well with Jonathan’s movie Fiyero persona, it’s more self derogatory humour, it’s more deflection, but it’s also something so dumb that someone genuinely dumb probably wouldn’t say it. It’s not really up to his usual standards of charm, Elphaba has, once again, put Fiyero on the back foot.

“Oh please. No you’re not, otherwise you wouldn’t be so unhappy.”

[awkward silence as they stare each other down]

Elphaba is not buying Fiyero’s words. She tells him straight out that he’s more than that, completely rejecting his happy, carefree, persona. She’s seen that he wants more out of life than this.

Again, such interesting parallels to Fiyero calling out Elphaba’s defensiveness in their movie meeting.

“Fine, if you don’t want my help.”

Fiyero is scared. And for the first time we see him react in anger. His normal act of charm and stupidity has not worked at all, so he falls back to having to try and push her away without this.

“No, I do.” [Elphaba grabs Fiyero’s hand]

I mean obviously there’s supposed to be some kind of electricity here, but I think it’s more than that. I think it’s Fiyero and Elphaba having realised they’ve found a kindred spirit. That both of them have suddenly found themselves vulnerable, without masks, and really seeing each other for the first time. They have let each other into more of their feelings than they expected to and it’s both elating and terrifying.

[Back in the classroom Galinda wakes up, notices both Fiyero and Elphaba are gone]

I feel like this is supposed to be the first niggling hint Galinda gets that there are feelings between Elphaba and Fiyero, especially because the “I’m not that girl” chords in the background start here rather than in the background of Fiyero and Elphaba’s scene. Like nothing right now enough to truly alarm her, but something she’ll look back on and realise this was the start.

“What did you mean to do back there? And why was I the only one you didn’t do it to?”

[long silence]

“You’re bleeding.”

Suddenly Fiyero is the one challenging Elphaba, asking her questions she’s scared of answering. And she, like Fiyero, isn’t quite ready to face what it means, so she changes the topic.

“Mhmm” [Elphaba reaches out to touch Fiyero’s scratch, at first Fiyero flinches, but then lets her], “there. It must have scratched you.”

“Yeah, or maybe it scratched me or something.”

This change of topic does not work at all, just ends up bringing them closer. Although, I must say, I miss how much it was an almost kiss in the musical. I feel like this version had a bit less chemistry, which was a shame. Still, it is the pinnacle of the sexual tension, where something more could happen and they both know and want it.

 [Fiyero retreats] “I’d better get to safety, the Cub.”

With this line and the last we see Fiyero go back to full on saying dumb shit when Elphaba flusters him (we saw it when he first met her, and will see it again in the throne room). Fiyero is often very smooth with words so it’s always telling when she renders him unable to use this.

“Of course.”

“Get the Cub to safety.” [Fiyero grabs the Cub and runs away]

[Elphaba gets up and shouts after him] “Fiyero!”

Fiyero chickens out, scared by his feelings. Elphaba calls out after him. Both of them are changed by the day and the challenge to their personas but both end up, in their own ways, talking themselves back into them. Fiyero goes back to Galinda, who loves him for his dumb playboy persona, while Elphaba sings a song essentially saying she’s not good enough for him because of who she is and how he’ll like Galinda better. But we know for the future that it is obviously something that sticks with them and will alter their actions and perceptions of each other going forward.

Fiyero and Elphaba have always been a story of two people afraid to show the world who they really are, who dislike the other’s persona but who discover that they both love the other for the traits they hide from the world. While this scene isn’t necessarily that different from its musical counterpart (which is also excellent), I do think the softening of Fiyero and some of the antagonism from Elphaba, puts a little bit of a different spin on things. It makes it very clear that they are two people that share ideals and, while they hide from the world, both, when push comes to shove, will do anything to make it a better place. I think the movie does an excellent job to show why they suit and are attracted to each other, and also a good job of foreshadowing that neither of them will ultimately shy away from giving up everything to do what is right.

An In Depth Study of Elphaba and Fiyero in the Train Station Scene

[anassemblageofpassions]

The way Elphaba always wholeheartedly lives in truth where everyone else lives in lies. And it is her truth, the fact that her power is true and real and strong, that makes her so coveted, both by the Wizard and morrible for their use, and by glinda and Fiyero for their love for her, and for nessarose some awful, horrible, beautiful combination of the two. Her power is grotesque and beautiful and true and it leaves her incapable of being anything but herself. Her heart and her magic show on her skin for everyone to see, brimming inside and out. She is incapable of bending that self, which is why instead she breaks, and she breaks so hard. Her first and only successful attempt at subterfuge is when she fakes her death. And it is the truth of her life that is only revealed at her death that saves everyone, that forces Glinda to be Good, forces the Wizard to leave. And the lies are still told. But Elphaba never fit in Oz because she could only live in truth, and she dragged Fiyero into her truth so that he could never fit in oz either, both physically and spiritually. Glinda could do the work she never could because Glinda can live in lies. She can fit. Her heart can be true while she masks herself in glitz and glam and platitudes even while her heart brims with love and grief and agony and righteousness.

Elphaba Thropp, conceived and born of such obvious lies that she is only ever able to be true, drags oz into her searing light, into a light that she could never experience. Her fatherhood displays itself on her skin and no one realizes it. She is the emerald city and she is oz and she cannot belong to it. And everyone loses her in the end, she loses a part of herself, loses her soulmate. But she has her truth and she has Fiyero, and they can be broken together, even though she will never be whole again. But she changed oz. For good.

[ladyantiheroine]

Thinking about the tragic sisterhood of Elphaba and Nessarose Thropp. Despite Nessarose being the favorite daughter, Elphaba goes out of her way to protect and take care of her. She’s willing to put aside her beef with Galinda because she made Nessa happy after getting her a date with Boq. She blames herself for Nessa’s disability because her green skin was the reason their father forced their pregnant mom to chew milk flowers. She can sense when her sister is endanger and leave Fiyero’s loving embrace to go help her. Even after the sisters have a falling out and Nessa dies, Elphaba still tries to get her ruby slippers back. Nessa has moments with sympathy towards Elphaba but never goes above and beyond for her in the same way, instead focusing on winning the love of Boq, a man who does not love her. Throughout everything, Elphaba loves Nessa more that Nessa loves her.

The Thropp sisters are a tale of unrequited sisterly love and I will weep.

[o-wild-west-wind]

So I’m still breaking down my thoughts, and something I keep returning to re: the politics of the Gliyeraba Thropple™ is the multifaceted question of class and power.

While Glinda is the epitome of privilege and the “rich girl” archetype, Fiyero AND Elphaba arguably start the show with more power and influence than Glinda does. Fiyero, of course, is the prince of the Vinkus—but Elphaba is notably the daughter of the governor of Munchkinland, which puts them nearer in terms of political/royal/class standing (and yes…the arranged marriage AUs DO go hard).

Now, the reason this is all so interesting is because it situates Glinda as someone with a huge outset motivation to social climb. Because while Elphaba clearly doesn’t have actual power, she and Fiyero share one thing that Glinda doesn’t have—a position that has them primed for disillusionment. Although Elphaba clearly still believes that it gets better at the top (a.k.a. the Wizard), she already has a lifetime of experiencing how hypocritical and loveless life in the "aristocracy" can be. Meanwhile, Fiyero’s very introduction is one of a depressed nihilist (all wrapped up in a flashy dance number); he’s transgressive from the start, which is perhaps the privilege one has when you’re already born at the top of the food chain—all the while also indicative of a genuine dislike of the system he’s in (and this is where I have MORE thoughts on gender and queerness, but I think that’ll deserve its own post). So although their actions are unequivocally brave, there's a lot less disillusionment E&F need to unpack before they break out—and, one could argue, an inherent privilege in their already being closer to the "truth."

Where I’m going with this is that I think Glinda represents something fascinating about the psyche of the bourgeoisie/upper-middle class—something that has real-world implications today. Because there’s something about her specific rung of power—the one that is just powerful enough to remain perpetually aspirational, like the peak of a bell-curve of ignorance—that taps into an important facet of “how wickedness happens.” It’s the story of the people who vote against their own interests because they think of themselves as "future billionaires;" the people who arguably lack the privilege of knowing that their race to the top is meaningless. It's the mindset that leaves you abandoning your morals and deepest loves for a system that forever dupes you into thinking your heart's desire is still just behind the curtain.

It’s all another part of why Glinda’s character is so lushly complex. She's complicit, but it stems from a genuine ignorance and vulnerability—and we get to watch her rise and fall so we don't fall victim to the same falsehoods. And I think it's also part of why our tellings and re-tellings of The Wizard of Oz, the true "American fairytale," still continue to resonate with us over a century later.

[musashi]

Musing on Movie!Nessa's Future in Part 2

A lot of people simultaneously expressing confusion alongside their celebration of Nessarose finally being played by a wheelchair user, because her being able to walk in act 2 is obviously a huge plot point--the spell cast on the shoes is what turns them into the ruby slippers which establishes the continuity and leads to a bunch of other plot threads, etc etc.

This is obviously the reason a lot of people give for her being played by an able-bodied actress in the past, it's obviously a bullshit reason because a huge majority of wheelchair users are ambulatory and can walk and stand for varying periods of time just fine. So like. They could have still had an ambulatory wheelchair user playing her, but I digress: the point is she is played by Marissa Bode in the movie. A wheelchair user, hurray!

These are just the opinions of someone who is not a wheelchair user so take them with a grain of salt (and please speak up if you have your own stuff to say as a member of the community!) but from what I can see as someone who's been insane about Wicked for about 15 years now, the movie did a lot of good for Nessa's character. Previously, the ableism toward her was baked into the metanarrative itself, but it's now been moved to a more realistic place--the characters within the story.

Previously Nessa was treated with little agency or autonomy not only by the characters but by the people writing the story. Most notably of all, her chair is constantly being grabbed and wheeled around by other characters. The movie corrects this--she is very rarely wheeled around except by her father (and he is called out for his coddling/infantilizing of her by Elphaba within 2 minutes of their introduction) and the one time a stranger tries to do this in what reads even to me as a genuinely traumatizing and far too familiar scene for any wheelchair user to have to sit through, Elphaba immediately fucking goes apeshit and starts throwing fucking furniture. Nessa herself also tries to advocate for herself and tell the professor in question to stop kidnapping/assaulting her and is, again, realistically not listened to.

This last bit obviously happens in the stage musical too but Nessa's own agency is much less pronounced. The movie adds little things here and there to give her more of that agency--Elphaba's protectiveness is much less "I have to help and watch over my poor disabled sister" and much more "I have to make sure no one underestimates or takes advantage of her." Even the plot detail that Elphaba was not there to be her caretaker but just to drop her off and make sure she got settled in her dorm adds leaps and bounds to Nessa's autonomy. Her and Boq's shared look in the opening ceremonies where they both bond beforehand at their inability to see over the crowds' standing ovation. And of course, the dance scene, where he no longer wheels her out but instead beckons her to follow him!

These little details add up in ways that are, at least in my opinion, very meaningful. They also extend to the production itself--where the sets were made accessible for Marissa and she was even allowed to do her own stunts, in her wheelchair! That part in the beginning where Elphaba levitates her was her in a harness in her fucking chair and all. Dope as FUCK.

So I am mentioning all of this because I think the people working on this movie have shown that they are unafraid to make changes to Nessa to be more respectful to her agency. The ableism she faces, which is still plentiful, is framed as such instead of just casually brushed off & baked into the narrative. By making these small changes, Nessa is not just an unfortunate stereotype of a disabled woman, but a real and fleshed-out person who is dealing with the consequences of those exact stereotypes in the society she lives in. I really liked that! I don't know how others feel about it, but I thought it was very well-shifted.

All that said, 'curing' your disabled character is obviously, like, the biggest no-no of writing a disabled character. And that plot beat is a huge one in every version of Wicked... so far. But here's the thing. We have a shot of Dorothy wearing the slippers. And they... are silver.

Why. Are they silver.

And they are silver in all of Dorothy's small little cameos. Every single one. Even though this shot, which was used primarily for promotional material to draw people in like "Hey! Wizord of Oz! This is What The Refrance!" did not make the choice to even suggest that they should ever be red. One of the most important pieces of iconography, consciously and notably absent.

I genuinely don't think Nessa's going to have her disability taken away in part 2. With how much love to this part of her has been done to the retooling of her character, I do not think it is a stretch to assume that they will find a way to advance the plot without removing her disability. I believe this because that is the right thing to do for Nessa, to ascend her character, however you feel about it--she should stay in her chair. She deserves to continue on the way she is.

I realize this little change effects a lot. But after seeing part one, I am confident they can do it and do it well and replace what the change takes away with something just as good. I have so much faith in the direction of these movies. I really, truly believe it will happen and it will be good and satisfying and perfect.

It might still happen, sure--Marissa might get a stunt double, or CGI, or some other brand of movie magic. The shoes may still get enchanted and stay silver to pay homage to the original Oz books. But I can't help but consider that idea and keep asking myself... why. That makes so much less sense. Why not give movie audiences the red slippers, draw them in with the imagery, give them one more lion cub in the bike basket or Boq talking about how much he cries or poppies putting the whole class to sleep. Why not give us the ruby slippers when you... could.

I think because this is going to be a big, long awaited improvement. And I think it is hiding there in plain sight.