#why i ship jonsa

[babybells123]

(ASOS, Sansa II)

(ASOS, Jon XII)

[fromstormsend]

“I don’t want someone brave and gentle, I want him. We’ll be ever so happy, just like in the songs, you’ll see. I’ll give him a son with golden hair, and one day he’ll be the king of all the realm, the greatest king that ever was, as brave as the wolf and as proud as the lion.” -AGOT Sansa III

“Ser Jaime Lannister was twin to Queen Cersei; tall and golden, with flashing green eyes and a smile that cut like a knife. He wore crimson silk, high black boots, a black satin cloak. On the breast of his tunic, the lion of his House was embroidered in gold thread, roaring its defiance. They called him the Lion of Lannister to his face and whispered "Kingslayer" behind his back. Jon found it hard to look away from him. This is what a king should look like, he thought to himself as the man passed.” -AGOT Jon I

***

These two summer children thought that being blonde was everything then. And there more many quotes from them that they think appearance is everything.

[oflorelei]

When I see an actually interesting theory that uses quotes, paragraphs, art credit etc.:

They use the sentence "villains like dany":

[willowycreature]

asoiaf tik tok is HELL because why is it that anytime someone edits jonsa they get jumped but san*an and sanr*on is okay to edit? "he's her cousin!" i have some news for you about ned's parents

[ladyaryawolf]

Maybe it is because I am on this fandom for so long, but I really need to understand how can people read ASoIaF and be like "Ugh. You ship incest????? 🤢🤮"

It is ASoIaF. It is filled with incest from the very first page to the last.

Why are you reading that if you are so sensitive?

[ionlyhadloveforyou]

"I won’t ever let him touch you, I’ll protect you, I promise." nah that's not so half-brother of him.

[thelustybraavosimaid]

Darling Jonsas, context is very important when providing quotes. So, some things:

A portion of Jon VI, ADwD is the aftermath of Jon learning that "Arya" is off and married to Ramsay. Anger...

By now she'd be eleven, Jon thought. Still a child. "I have no sister. Only brothers. Only you." Lady Catelyn would have rejoiced to hear those words, he knew. That did not make them easier to say. His fingers closed around the parchment. Would that they could crush Ramsay Bolton's throat as easily.

...bleeds to distress and frustration:

Jon felt as stiff as a man of sixty years. Dark dreams, he thought, and guilt. His thoughts kept returning to Arya. There is no way I can help her. I put all kin aside when I said my words. If one of my men told me his sister was in peril, I would tell him that was no concern of his.

[...]"Snow," muttered Lord Mormont's raven. "Snow, snow."

Suddenly he could not suffer it a moment longer.

...

Mully and Kegs stood inside the doors, leaning on their spears. "A cruel cold out there, m'lord," warned Mully through his tangled orange beard. "Will you be out long?"

"No. I just need a breath of air." Jon stepped out into the night.

And obviously occurs in others:

"You're not scared?"

The girl smiled in a way that reminded Jon so much of his little sister that it almost broke his heart. "Let him be scared of me." (Jon X, ADwD)

--

Jon walked to the edge of the Wall and gazed down upon the killing ground where Mance Rayder's host had died. He wondered where Mance was now. Did he ever find you, little sister? Or were you just a ploy he used so I would set him free?

It had been so long since he had last seen Arya. What would she look like now? Would he even know her? Arya Underfoot. Her face was always dirty. Would she still have that little sword he'd had Mikken forge for her? Stick them with the pointy end, he'd told her. Wisdom for her wedding night if half of what he heard of Ramsay Snow was true. Bring her home, Mance. I saved your son from Melisandre, and now I am about to save four thousand of your free folk. You owe me this one little girl. (Jon XI, ADwD)

--

"I have made mistakes, I have admitted as much, but—"

"A grey girl on a dying horse. Daggers in the dark. A promised prince, born in smoke and salt. It seems to me that you make nothing but mistakes, my lady. Where is Stannis? What of Rattleshirt and his spearwives? Where is my sister?" (Jon XIII, ADwD)

When Jon thinks about the representation of his heart, which is equated to his sister, it's not about Sansa:

"The heart is all that matters. Do not despair, Lord Snow. Despair is a weapon of the enemy, whose name may not be spoken. Your sister is not lost to you."

"I have no sister." The words were knives. What do you know of my heart, priestess? What do you know of my sister?

Melisandre seemed amused. "What is her name, this little sister that you do not have?"

"Arya." His voice was hoarse. "My half-sister, truly…" (Jon VI, ADwD)

George is not playing 5D chess here, like at all. What you see, especially in this case, is exactly what it is. His personal torment, his despair and pain over "Arya" over the latter half of his ADwD chapters is not even remotely about Sansa, nor has it ever been. Arya is not a "proxy" for family, Jon considers her his heart, and he her home.

This should not have to be told to anyone. No one should have to be told that the relationship Jon and Arya have cannot be interchangeable with other characters, but here we are.

Stop lessening their narrative and emotional importance to one another.

[rise-my-angel]

Love watching the pedro fandom still have discourse over what's the appropriate kind of "x reader" fic to pair up with characters like Joel, meanwhile I'm over here in the minority of the Got/asoiaf fandom by not writing a fic with some kind of an incestual main romance pairing.

[january-summers]

Was reading in bed this morning, and I had a sudden plot bunny for a modern au Sansa centric fic, and as I'm lazy-brain building it, suddenly "this would probably work alright as a Jonsa fic, actually."

I don't even ship Jonsa. Who is responsible for ship-vibing at my bunny?

I'm not mad... okay I'm a little mad, mostly because it really would work as a Jonsa.

[mutter-of-dragons]

#anti jonsa#anti jonsa stans#personally i find kit harington adorable#and have shared fangirl moments over his jon snow with my mum#but the sheer amount of intellectual dishonesty shovelled by jonsas#is staggering#how can anyone sign up for that#they want jon to be kody from sister wives#yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck#free jon snow#i'll never not be angered by what d&d did to jon#jon snow as a character deserves so much more

I’m actually very curious to know why you don’t like jonsa! my reasons for example are: their fandom is acting way too insane for a ship that never happened and won’t ever happen; kit harington is unfortunately ugly. what are yours?

There are so many reasons that I dont even know how to begin with.

Alright. Let's go.

1st reason: It is only solely based on the show, and I really mean that. When you get to read metas and posts surrounding the ship, u realize these people never opened the books, while traying to pretend they did. I'm not being entitled. It is just obvious with what they write. Everything is taken out of contest. Especially surrounding Jon's pov and his lack of relationship with Sansa.

+ I despise the show. The only good thing about D&D's creations were the Dragons CGI and the dothraki and valyrian language, and it ends there. Out of it, everything sucks. They have rewrote all the female character in such a sexist and ridiculous way that I can't even start explaining for you.

2nd. I ship jonrya. Ik it is not everyone's cup of tea, but I do. And no. Idc if they become canon or not. I like the concept. I love their relationship. And I love what they can become. Now why the fact I ship Jonrya actually matters? Well, specially after season 7, a lot of Jonsa fans started taking things from Jon PIV that were about his love for Arya, and make it be about Sansa, with ridiculous excuses for their takes. The most commun and easy example being "What do you know of my heart, priestess? What do you know of my sister?" When Jon asks Melissandre, he is referring to Arya. And no. It is not a different interpretation. It is about Arya he is talking about. Another one was "Would you bed your sister?" And Again Jon thinks about Arya, but when you read Jonsa's metas; they say he is thinking about Sansa. Another common Jonsa take is that Jon died for his men in the books, or for Sansa, when again, this is not the case. He died for Arya. And that is explicit on the text with no room for other interpretation. No wonder why the last thing he tought was about her.

Jonsas straigh up lie about what happens in the books to support their takes, or they just read metas here on tumblr and believe it. Idk and neither do I wish to know.

Not only that. They started behaving as they had a moral high ground over jonerys and jonryas... when they don't, it is still incestuos and still problematic to modern standards - not only that, they behave entitled to this day, and attack Jonrya shippers and Jonerys shippers in a real coward way.

Many, many times, I received anon hate telling me to *kms*, slit my wrists. Someone even wished for me to get raped over a fictional ship.

My disdain over the ship is not only with the ship itself, hence taking a lot of Jon's dynamic and bound with Arya to give it to Sansa, which is really important in both of their stories and arc, but mostly about the fandom, and how I was affected by it. If it was treated only like a crackship (what book wise, actually is), as my beloved hitsukarin from bleach, I would have no problem with it.

But the community is far one of the most toxic ones I have ever seen or been in contact with. Actually, dealing with them heavily impacted my mental health.

3rd. I really didnt like Sansa way before dealing with the fandom. Since my favorite is Arya, the way Sansa treated her never vibed with me. (And no. It isn't normal sibling behavior. I am an older sister. I would never do half of the things Sansa have done, not even on 11). After book 1, I felt pity for her, but she still was the last interesting character for me, even if her Vale story was.... I guess, more berable.

After getting into the fandom, tho, Jonsas and Stansas ruined Sansa for me in every possible way as well to the point I read her chapters and I won't feel any kind of enjoyment in her journey or her character. She is my least liked character, not because "she is the most horrible person in the books" (she is not. She is far from being that. ) but because her fans made me feel terribly bitter about her. It is not logical or fair, but again, I'm not trying to be.

[jackoshadows]

It's funny that the same folks who make up nonsense about 'blood supremacy' and 'eugenics' to hate on the Targaryens are obsessed, like really, really obsessed with Sansa calling herself 'the blood of Winterfell' and use that as the reason for their favorite Jonsa crackship and for why Sansa will rule the North.

Having a certain 'blood' is apparently very important for shipping reasons and for why one feudal queen should rule over the peasants and serfs. But it's also Aryan ideology and 'blood supremacy' if other characters uphold their house in the same way.

It's funny that they bring real world ethics into this fictional fantasy world to argue blood supremacy to hate on certain characters and houses while all the time justifying in world Westerosi child abuse, classism, sexism, bullying and ableism as being right because it's the done thing.

In a fantasy world where certain groups of people do have magical powers based on who they are and their bloodline - Targaryens having prophetic dreams and Starks having warging powers - it's funny they are trying to argue that a girl fighting against slavery is the real evil because of her house and her blood and she has to die in violent and painful ways since in her case eugenics and blood purity applies and ALL TARGARYENS MUST BE EXTERMINATED. Except for Jon Snow who weirdly escapes the evilness despite having Targaryen blood because he has the SUPER GOOD SPECIALEST STARK BLOOD that dilutes the evil Targaryen blood. also he's THE BLOOD OF WINTERFELL!.

Here's the deal:

Arya being the only Stark child to have the Stark look IS IMPORTANT TO HER STORY, plays a part in her narrative and foreshadows her future arc.

[I love how stans get triggered when this is brought up in terms of Arya's character and her importance but use it generously to prop up their shitty crackship. Oh, Sansa imagines one of her kids would look like Arya? This means she has children with Jon ❤️❤️❤️]

The Direwolves are important. They are gifts from the Old Gods. Nymeria being a leader of a huge wolf pack is important.

You know, I don’t like to give things away.“ says Martin, a grin spreading across his face. ”But you don’t hang a giant wolf pack on the wall unless you intend to use it.“ - GRRM

“You have five trueborn children,” Jon said. “Three sons, two daughters. The direwolf is the sigil of your House. Your children were meant to have these pups, my lord.”   - Bran, AGoT

Magical powers linked to blood are important in the fictional fantasy world of The Song of Ice and Fire. Especially when they are facing an otherworldy magical existential, apocalyptic threat from beyond the Wall. They need dragons, direwolves, prophetic dreams and magical swords to save the entire realm!

Bran, Arya, Rickon and Jon Snow being wargs who are having wolf dreams and communicating with each other through their direwolves is important.

Arya being her father's child in every way that matters IS IMPORTANT TO HER STORY. Her father literally talks to her through weirwoods and gives her strength and courage. She has learned from him on what it takes to administer Winterfell. These are necessary character building subplots for characters to ultimately end up in leading positions.

Arya being her mother's child and proactively taking charge, being a leader and getting things done in terms of surviving in a man's world is ALSO IMPORTANT TO HER STORY.

Arya has a connection to the North through her father - the North is literally rising up in ADwD to save Ned's precious, valiant little girl - and has a connection to the Riverlands and her mother - the brotherhood without banners.

Characters having certain features because they belong to a house is an important and running theme in the books. It's not just house Targaryen. The Lannisters have a certain look - hence why Ned figures out who Joffrey's father is. The Starks have a certain look - this plays into Catelyn's hatred for Jon because he looks more Stark than Robb which is important in terms of being the future heir considering ALL the Starks who have ruled the North thus far have the Stark look. Hell, the Baratheons having a certain look is what leads Ned Stark to crack the secret of Lannister incest - 'The seed is strong'. Applying real world genetics and biology to a fantasy world is idiotic.

Jon Snow looking like a Stark is important in terms of his secret mystery parentage and who his mother is. His special bond with Arya gains significance considering she looks like Lyanna and that is Jon's mother. Lyanna having the Stark look is important. Sansa looking like Catelyn is the major component of her relationship with Petyr Baelish spanning over 5 books.

GRRM is not randomly writing characters looking a certain way for shits and giggles. These are important, narrative and foreshadowing plot points.

[eruherdiriel]

I always chuckle a little when I see people say "I don't ship it or anything but I see why people do" and "they have so many parallels" about Jonsa because ... that's how it starts. You are at Level I of Understanding the Vision. Just lean forward a bit and you'll fall all the way down to join us in the pits.

[agentrouka-blog]

Nothing against Jonsas, but I feel like the "radiant" comment is widely misrepresented because toward the end of Agot before Ned's execution when Sansa thought he was going to be freed Arya uses the expression and even describes her hair and what she's wearing unlike Jon. In context of the scene with Sansa and Joffrey it seems like it refers more to how happy and excited she looked. Pretty sure Catelyn also recalls Lysa as being "radiant and dry-eyed" at some point in their double-wedding. Again, nothing against the ship itself, I just don't think it's accurate to read it like that, especially since 14 yo Jon was all drunk and moody and could have definitely been more descriptive.

First up, I agree that no one HAS to interpret the scene as some Jonsas do.

But we need to remain factually correct, as well. There are exactly 4 uses of the word radiant, and Arya is not among them. (This website is a wonderful gift for quickly checking quotes, btw.)

Here's how Arya describes Sansa:

And there in their midst was Sansa, dressed in sky-blue silk, with her long auburn hair washed and curled and silver bracelets on her wrists. Arya scowled, wondering what her sister was doing here, why she looked so happy. (AGOT, Arya V)

When Arya describes how Sansa is dressed, it paints an important contrast to the ragged deprivation that Arya has been suffering in Fleabottom for many days. And the term she uses is a very specific (and confused) "happy".

1 - Jon about Sansa:

His half sisters escorted the royal princes. Arya was paired with plump young Tommen, whose white-blond hair was longer than hers. Sansa, two years older, drew the crown prince, Joffrey Baratheon. He was twelve, younger than Jon or Robb, but taller than either, to Jon's vast dismay. Prince Joffrey had his sister's hair and his mother's deep green eyes. A thick tangle of blond curls dripped down past his golden choker and high velvet collar. Sansa looked radiant as she walked beside him, but Jon did not like Joffrey's pouty lips or the bored, disdainful way he looked at Winterfell's Great Hall. (AGOT, Jon I)

Since the beginning of the paragraph already establishes Sansa's presence, it was not necessary to include a description at all, and yet she is inserted again after an already lengthy description of Joffrey's handsome qualities. And not just casually. GRRM uses a pretty loaded word for absolutely no reason. Yes, "happy" is one important aspect of it, but why use "radiant", in particular when happy or any number of less ambiguous synonyms would have served just as well to contrast her mere disposition with Joffrey's attitude and with Jon's disapproval?

And how else does GRRM use the word in his books?

The other uses are:

2 - Catelyn about Lysa:

"I believe she liked me. Why was she crying?" "She's a maid on the eve of her wedding. A few tears are to be expected." Lysa had wept lakes the morning of their own wedding, though she had managed to be dry-eyed and radiant when Jon Arryn swept his cream-and-blue cloak about her shoulders. (AGOT, Catelyn VI)

Context:

"They made me marry him. I never wanted it." "No more than I did," her aunt said. "Jon Arryn was no dwarf, but he was old. You may not think so to see me now, but on the day we wed I was so lovely I put your mother to shame. But all Jon desired was my father's swords, to aid his darling boys.  (ASOS, Sansa VI)

I doubt Catelyn was mainly describing Lysa's exuberant happiness in that moment.

3 - Jaime about Cersei:

"How is Cersei? As beautiful as ever?" "Radiant." Fickle. "Golden." False as fool's gold.  (AFFC, Jaime V)

I also doubt that Jaime's main focus is Cersei's joyful disposition to answer his aunt's inquiry about her beauty.

4 - Reznak about Dany:

To rule Meereen I must win the Meereenese, however much I may despise them. "I am ready," she told Irri. Reznak and Skahaz waited atop the marble steps. "Great queen," declared Reznak mo Reznak, "you are so radiant today I fear to look on you." The seneschal wore a tokar of maroon silk with a golden fringe. A small, damp man, he smelled as if he had bathed in perfume and spoke a bastard form of High Valyrian, much corrupted and flavored with a thick Ghiscari growl. "You are kind to say so," Dany answered, in the same tongue. (ADWD, Daenerys I)

Is she thanking him for pointing out her incandescent joy? Or perhaps her appearance?

Clearly, this is a word that GRRM himself tends to particularly connotate with beauty, and given the rarity of its use in the books, it does stand out when Jon uses it to describe Sansa. It's extremely extra of him.

You don't have to agree with our conclusion. But that doesn't make it necessarily inaccurate according to what else is represented in the text. And the context.

[thelustybraavosimaid]

A reminder.

This is what Jon in his arc about outsiders and unity and prejudice and seeing past preconceived notions and going against convention is all leading to you guys...

[sherlokiness]

2013 amazes me. It's so surprising there would be a post explaining how Jon and Sansa would end up together from more than a decade ago. Is Mladen one of the og jonsas perhaps?

Hi, anon! Thanks for the ask.

Reference: This post.

It really is amazing to find that post about Jon and Sansa. I'm pretty sure that's the only one(besides blindestspot also 2013) which verbosely listed rational reasons for why Jon and Sansa could be a couple. You'd be hardpressed to find one bc all the other clues of Jon ending up with a sister are all attributed to jonrya or adjacent - aegony bc of the incest. When the original outline came out in 2017, there were talks about jonrya clues being the leftover from the og timeline like Jaime being King but scrapped. I believe the author has actually switched Jon's endgame to Sansa from Arya from the first book bc of that one line "No, that's Sansa." There are also others like Sam/Sansa being a bastard's lady love and the use of radiant.

I don't think Mladen is a jonsa the way a "shipper" is. They've merely suggested a possibility for the reason George deliberately made Jon and Sansa distant but still fond of each other. Nevertheless, it's still a bit rebellious for Mladen to suggest jonsa endgame when the most prevalent ship during those years was Sansan. It was treated as a "done deal" ship like JaimeXBrienne was. Sansa hate was also rampant so saying she's gonna end up with the "hero" in the book is practically blasphemy.

[atopvisenyashill]

I don't ship jonsa, but i also think that Arya will be the one to kill Dany. Think about it. Arya is Lyanna reborn, we are told again and again in the books and Daenerys is the male version of Rhaegar. (Not my words. Daenerys' own supporters and her own fans keep harping on about this.)

What better thematic way to show Lyanna finally defeating the man who basically murdered her by forcing his child on her at such a young age while he held her captive, then by having a willful Stark girl, who is her niece, who looks exactly like her, end the last tyrant to wear the name Targaryen?

This is why I truly believe Arya Stark will be the end of Daenerys Targaryen. Not Jon Snow.

Yes, I honestly need a tag for this but I do think Arya's arc about who deserves death, who deserves to mete out death, and when death is a blessing, are bringing her not just to killing Lady Stoneheart but killing Daenerys. I have a post about it here that goes into the "arya is surrounded by the horrors of Valyria, about to come face to face without a woman who is the personification of Valyria" and another great one here that goes into how "who kills Dany" might even be left a mystery. I haven't talked about it here but I have my tags on this post here (by the great stumpy, I think her reading on how Dany could be killed is pretty spot on to how it would happen) and I'll paste them here-

#‘she doesn’t require those skills for her mother’ is a very good point. i think she’ll kill both and it’ll be sort of two sides of the same #killing lsh is about the mercy aspect when it comes to the person being executed. it’s about reckoning with her complex feelings towards the #feminine towards her mother towards her grief. the slave asks for mercy and the faceless men grant it. and i think here arya will understand #why death can be a mercy. and why skipping the trial aspect is bad (see her killing the singer). it’s about arya working through her grief. #whereas killing dany is mercy towards the many and not the one being executed. it’s about where her story ends. not low after killing her #mother but becoming a queenslayer and feeling no shame over it. the culmination not of her emotional journey but her actionable one. from #befriending the poor and peasantry to killing a queen to protect them.

So much of Arya's story - not dissimilar to Dany's! - is that she befriends the smallfolk & common born, sees the way they suffer, and is attempting to do something to help alleviate that suffering, but alleviating it is so much harder than they expected. Whereas I think Dany's story is careening towards a moment where she decides the only way to "help" is to cleanse them with fire to be remade anew just as she was, Arya's story is coming from understanding when it's time to step in - when killing becomes a mercy. For her mother, that's part of the Heroine's Journey; Arya having rejected the feminine for the masculine, descending into the underworld, coming back with new gifts and skills, and finally reconciling herself with the feminine. No, this doesn't mean Arya is going to suddenly start wearing dresses; rather, it's about how her issues with sewing are about Catelyn not about Sansa. It's about her unresolved issues with her mother.

But part of "justice" as Arya learns is that death comes not just as a mercy for the poor, but as retribution against the powerful. That part of the lesson isn't a factor in her killing LSH so it will be found elsewhere. But where? It won't be with Littlefucker or the Night King, it won't be with the Freys...there's not a lot of options left! But Arya, like the rest of her siblings, is going to find out the truth about Lyanna and what happened to her. That's going to be relevant!