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haeoflii · 5 hours ago

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"Transported to a surreal world, having to go on an adventure while trying to find a way back home...This is just like that popular children's book that got adapted into a movie......! The Wizard of Oz!" *incorrect buzzer sound*

(click for better quality)

A fun-loving toon who got swept away in a carriage from their wacky cartoon world and transported to a twisted anime world.

INFORMATION:

Grade: Freshman

Class: Class A

Birthday: July 7

Age: 19

Orientation: AroAce

Height: 178 cm/5'10 ft

Dominant Hand: Ambidextrous

Homeland: ???

Species: humanoid toon

Club: Film research club

Best Subject: Art

Hobbies: Photography and scrapbooking

Pet Peeves: People throwing fruit skins away

Favourite Food: As long as it's food

Least Favorite Food: Dead rats, bugs, inanimate objects

Talent: Photography and pulling random things out of thin air

NICKNAMES FOR OTHERS (Usually used to annoy them):

Grim: Grimmy-poo/Grimmy

Ace: Acey-wacey

Deuce: Deucey-goosey

Jack: Jacky/Jackaroo

Epel: Epel-peel

Ortho: Toto/Astro boy

Sebek: Mr. braggadocious crocodile

Malleus: Hornton/Mally

Ruggie: Mr. bag-snatcher

NICKNAME FOR THEM:

Grim: Henchmen

Leona: Rook 2.0/herbivore

Floyd: Shrimpy

Rook: Trickster

Malleus: Child of man

Ruggie: Pickpocketer

Sebek: DOLTISH HUMAN!!! (full caps are a must)

BACKSTORY:

r̸̙̲̮̦̺͖̳̩̙̠͓͍͚̰̂̀̿̏̈́͌͗͒͆̾͘ȩ̶̧̢̬̹̗̳̗̱̘͉̲̭̓̇̉̎̓̃̓̎̀͑͒̎̀͜d̸̡̻̻̙̦̲̟̰̫̫͚̖͓͗́̍̌͘a̸͇̟̟̮̩̒͋͂̒͋͆̃̌ͅͅc̷̰̀͐͑ţ̶̡͉̱͈̟̔͂̓̈́̎̽͋̇͝ȩ̵̦̲̣͖̬͆͋̐͝d̴̨̳̙̖̤̪͍̿̑͋͗͊̌͌͋͗̚ ̸̨͔̦̯̙̪͎̪͗͐͑̔͂͑͑̌͘

TRAITS:

Optimistic, nifty, adaptable, resilient, carefree, good-natured, cheerful, dense, obtuse, naive

RELATIONSHIPS:

(credits to @/ai-kan1 for the template!)

I did not check the spelling for this so I'm sorry if this was cheeks 😬

THE BOYZ🥶💯🔥—THE FIRST YEARS:

ADEUCE + GRIM: Dumb, dumber, dumbest and dumd spelled with double d. The three of them would rather take a bullet to the head than admit that they care for each other a lot. Charlie would say they love them from the moon and back and still take the bullet to the head just for fun! (it's not like they could die anyways. They're a toon gosh darn it!!) No matter what the situation is, they'll always have each other's backs—even if they complain and whine along the way!

JACK: Charlie absolutely admires Jack's strong sense of justice! After book 2, Charlie felt bad that Jack watched his role model be an asshole so they tried to be a good role model for him but they're literally no better than Leona. Jack appreciates it though. Jack's wolf form reminds Charlie of a puppy he and his brother used to take care of while they were living on the streets.

EPEL: Epel is ecstatic to find someone who shared the same problem as him—being mistaken for a girl. Every time someone mistakes both of them as a "she", Epel is the first to correct them—saying that both of them are the "most manliest men you've ever seen!" Charlie dgaf abt it but whatever makes him happy. Epel is also a bit jealous that Charlie doesn't have a problem with being perceived as feminine.

SEBEK: Sebek looks down on Charlie because he thinks they're uneducated (which is true because they've never been to a school before) and that they should pursue their educational prowess seriously. Despite the rude and almost offensive remarks, Charlie admires him for his hardworking, honest nature and loyalty to his young master! Even though Sebek claims to dislike them, they're the first person he goes to if the Diasomnia gang is not there to ramble about Malleus. They even occasionally praised Malleus along with him!

THE UNEXPECTED FRIENDSHIP—VIL:

Being in the same club as him, Vil didn't expect for the both of them to get along so well.

At first, Vil thought that Charlie wasn't going to take this club seriously; thinking that Charlie will just play around the set and make a mess but was taken back by surprise to see that they has a bit of knowledge on cinematography as well as their skills with a camera. Charlie on the other hand, was used to being the one behind the camera and was the one who helped their ex-girlfriend become famous.

Charlie's weird and quirky antics as well as their love for beauty reminds him of Rook, while Vil's strict yet passionate personality reminds them of their ex-girlfriend who is a model/actor just like him.

THE BLUNT BANGS FREAKS—ROOK:

Speaking of Rook, Charlie became photography buddies with Rook after accidentally bumping into each other in a bush while trying to take pictures of the other students. With their forces combined, the students of NRC could never catch a break from their constant terrorizing pestering.

Charlie thinks Rook's flamboyant and dramatic antics are hilarious while Rook finds Charlie's toon body fascinating and would sometimes use them as a test subject for whatever he's got in store for them. Unfortunately, Charlie can only match 45% of Rook's freak so they find it super weird. (but who are they to judge him?)

RIVALS OR BUDDIES?—RUGGIE:

At first glance, Ruggie expected Charlie to be naive or overly friendly with the way they treat others and thought it would be funny to treat himself to a nice lunch with their money (that he was definitely just borrowing). Bumping into them and snatching their wallet, he looked inside only to find it empty with trash inside and moths flying out of it.

Sighing, he decided to buy something from the vending machine, only to find his wallet missing. From the corners of his eyes, he saw a very smug Charlie, with his wallet on one hand, and munching on a donut on the other.

And from that day on, both of them will try and outwit each other. Not only that, they bonded instantly due to their similar upbringing growing up. Occasionally, one of them will treat the other to lunch (with someone else's money of course)

TWO GOLDEN RETRIEVERS AND A BLACK CAT—THE SHROUD SIBLINGS:

Extroverted, loud and optimistic—everything in a person that is on Idia's avoid list. Idia finds Charlie intimidating and would rather jump off a cliff than interact with someone as lively as them.

While for Charlie, they're really fond of Idia since he reminds them of their younger brother a lot—especially his anxious nature and his trouble with making friends. Despite their personalities being different from night to day, if given the chance, they would definitely be friends.

Ortho is glad that someone other than him likes his older brother. Ortho tries to get his brother to befriend Charlie with him protesting, saying that Charlie is basically the "Anti-Idia". As for Charlie, they enjoy talking to Ortho and treats him as if he's their own younger brother. Charlie dotes on him often, almost to the point of the first years thinking it's plain favoritism. (Charlie feels incredibly homesick every time they see the siblings with each other)

THREE MAFIA BUSINESS MEN VS STREET SCAMMER—THE OCTOTRIO:

NO NO NO! BIG ON CHARLIE'S NO NO LIST. Charlie may have trouble with solving 76 + 19 but they recognise a scam when they see it. After all, they're a money-grubber too! Despite knowing that Azul is a sucker for capitalism, Charlie sees Azul as someone who worked to the top, disciplined, organized, and efficient in their work; Jade, a person who is passionate about his interests and land life; Floyd, someone who dances on the beat of his own drum. But if Charlie admires them, they wouldn't dare go near them even with a 10ft pole!

FLOYD: SHRIMPYYYY!!!! He finds Charlie super interesting! He wants to see how hard he can squeeze them until their eyes pop out of their head. If Charlie ever turned pocket sized, he'd try to chew them like a dog toy. In Charlie's words: "Floyd's like a runaway car with no driver; unpredictable and chaotic. It's fun to watch and guess what it's gonna hit from afar but the moment it starts to swerve towards you that's when you start running."

JADE: Jade thinks Charlie's an interesting critter. He enjoys messing with them because they make an amusing face when they're scared. When Azul pissed him off, he'll ask Charlie to cook something up for Azul and make Charlie watch him eat it. Azul feels pressured because Charlie's giving him puppy-dog eyes while Jade is giving him the most shit-eating smirk ever. Azul fainted after smelling it and was sent to the infirmary that day.

AZUL: Azul considers Charlie to be a good worker in the Montrol Lounge. Charlie's friendly and outgoing attitude brings in a lot of customers, they're efficient in their work, and they're able to carry 10 plates on each arms along with a plate on their head without ever dropping it. But they are completely BANNED from entering the kitchen. He even made a custom metal sign for it! Every now and then, Azul lets Charlie perform their "magic tricks" (normal toon physics) in the lounge.

VICTIMS OF CONSTANT ANNOYANCE—RIDDLE, JAMIL & LEONA:

RIDDLE: If Riddle had a "no lash out" streak, it'll go back to zero every time Charlie feels mischievous. Charlie wants him to lighten up a bit while Riddle wants them to take life a bit more seriously. On rare occasions, Charlie buys pastries from a cafe for Riddle as an apology. At one point, they bought a cake similar to this one.

JAMIL: Charlie sorta understands what it's like wanting to be free, to fly away from the bird cage where they force you to sing but everything that Charlie does reminds him of Kalim. So Charlie keeps quiet. But Charlie being Charlie, they can't keep quiet for too long. Sometimes, Jamil contemplates on whether or not he should knock their teeth in.

LEONA: A total pain in the ass. Leona fully believes that Charlie was dropped on the head as a kid. While Charlie thinks he's super cool like a cool older brother—especially during book 3. If you ever see Leona smirking in his sleep, just so you know it's probably about punching Charlie in the face. Nobody tells Charlie this otherwise it'll get to his head but Leona finds them a biiiit endearing, like this much🤏 Their cheerful attitude reminds him of a certain lion cub.

LATE NIGHT YAPPERS—MALLEUS:

In almost every twst universe, there's a friendship between the prefect of the Ramshackle dormitory and the Prince of Briar Valley and of course so does this universe. Both of them don't mind the other rambling a lot since they're both good listeners. He's never seen anyone smile so brightly at him before. How can someone act so comfortable with him? Don't you know he's the future King of as well as one of the most powerful mages in the world? And yet Charlie treats him as any other person. Not as the Prince of his kingdom but as an equal instead. Just another student. A friend.

Talking with Malleus feels rejuvenating for Charlie. A calm slow walk around the campus is just what they need after their usual fast-paced chaotic schedule. They also find Malleus' sense of humour funny. His pulse rushes, his head reeling and his face flushes every time he makes them laugh. (definitely not because of his smaallll tiny itty bitty crush....noo not that at all)

TRIVIA:

- Their name "Sue Pierre Calli Francis Lizzie Lexis Ally Dokken" is a reference to the word "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" from Mary Poppins.

- I picked the name Charlie because of the song "Charlie's inferno" and because they were originally a genderbend version of Charlie from back when Hazbin Hotel pilot just aired but I liked it so much that I made them into an oc. And as for jackyl, it just rhymes with ramshackle 🤷

- On their second week in NRC, they pickpocketed around 70 people.

- Idia reminds him of his younger brother.

- Charlie's gloves are a reference to those old rubber-hose cartoons.

- Charlie can stretch all the way up to the Stratosphere but he will feel the effects of ultraviolet radiation.

- Charlie's bag can hold up to 5000 items.

- Charlie used to date a hot celebrity and no one believes him (a lil nod to Roger Rabbit and Jessica Rabbit)

FULL BODY + SILLY GIF:

How Charlie looks at Azul expecting him to eat their radioactive, foul-smelling, non-digestible, toxic, evil-scented "food" that they made:

#I WANNA REWRITE THE VICTIMS OF CONSTANTS HEADACHES BUT I'M TOO LAZY ;-;#I'm gonna be honest the reason why the backstory is redacted is because I'm not satisfied with it #I've rewritten it 4 times and i still don't like it #also if there's any spell mistakes just so you know i was petting my cat while typing because she's clingy #And also because I'm like really sleep deprived #twst #twst oc #disney twisted wonderland #twisted wonderland #twst yuu #twisted wonderland oc #disney twst #twisted wonderland yuu #twst oc introduction #twst oc intro #twst prefect #twst ramshackle #hae's art✩#charlie ⭐

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nopxxx · 3 days ago

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OK UPDATE I FEEL THE NEED TO SHARE THAT IS NOT RELATED TO BATMAN AT ALL AND IF THIS CHANGES HOW YOU SEE ME THEN MY FEARS ARE CORRECT AND I AM THE ASSHOLE, AND I SINCERELY HOPE I AM NOT. (this is basically a reddit post but I don’t have reddit so)

Ok so my friend and I went to see Mufasa in theaters yesterday and the people behind us were super annoying, I’m gonna get further into that.

We came in and sat down and all was well for moments, then a large family(4 adults, 3 kids) came and sat down behind us, and they were speaking a language I assume was either Ukrainian or Russian, which isn’t really relevant rn but it will be later

So the movie starts, and they’re still talking at a normal-leaning-loud volume, but my friend and I are thinking “oh they’ll quiet down soon enough”

They did not quiet down, as a matter of fact. The three kids, ranging what looked to be 4-7 were literally running all around the room, yelling and all of the things that small children do, and I’m not upset with the kids at all, my issue is with the ADULTS

The adults are still yapping(they never stopped) and one of them turned on their flashlight a few times and WHAT. Who does that. Anyways, the littlest kid starts calling for their mother, literally crying “Mama, mama, mama, mama” over and over again and GUESS WHAT? THE MOTHER DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. HER KID WAS THERE SCREAMING FOR HER IN A VERY PUBLIC SPACE, AND SHE JUST IGNORED THEM.

THAT REALLY BOTHERS ME. So the entire time the kids are obviously upset and don’t want to be there and the parents AREN’T EVEN WATCHING THE FUCKING MOVIE, THEY ARE YAPPING. ITS FINE TO DO THAT AT HOME, BUT IN A THEATER? Like I get small comments here and there, but they were speaking legit constantly

And when the small kids are sitting down, they’re kicking our seats or pulling on them, one of them even grabbed at my hair(or tried to, I moved) AND THE PARENTS DID NOTHING

Saying this again, I AM NOT, I REPEAT, AM NOT UPSET WITH THE KIDS AT ALL. THEY ARE LITTLE AND DESERVE SO MUCH ATTENTION AND AFFECTION AND THEY WERE JUST UNHAPPY. I AM NOT UPSET WITH THE CHILDREN.

Like, if the adults had been trying to keep them quiet, ANYTHING, then I wouldn’t be saying any of this. I understand having to look after a screaming child in public, and I know it’s not fun, but it is NEVER okay to just ignore your child like that.

I feel like if a kid is that little, you shouldn’t be taking them to the movies. Their little minds can’t really comprehend whats happening, and tbh there were some parts of the movie that I think could be frightening to a young child. A 7 year old I can understand, but a 3 to 4 year old doesn’t have the mental capacity for it.

So the movie ends and we leave, neither of us said anything to them(we were stupid and decided to bus around rather than drive and had to catch our bus)

So moving on to today, I was in my biology class right?(college), and it’s nearing the end of class and I decided to tell my deskmate about it, AND HE WAS LIKE “Well… it is a kids movie..” AND CALLED ME NATIONALISTIC, PROBABLY ONLY BECAUSE I SAID MAYBE THEY JUST DIDNT KNOW AMERICAN THEATER ETIQUETTE (yes, that is the exact word he used) and said that my friend and I should have just waited until it was released to streaming services.

SO LIKE AM I IN THE WRONG. SHOULD I NOT HAVE BEEN ANNOYED?

I just went and saw mufasa in theaters and the people sitting behind me were SO annoying like it was awful but it got me thinking, what would the batfam be like in a movie theatre?

I feel like they would

a) not go at all, or at least not as a family

b) be the LOUDEST most infuriating people in the room

or c) sit so quiet and still that it creeps out the people sitting near them. Like their expressions don’t change at all, they don’t utter a peep, no snacks or slushies, nothing, just silence. Then they leave the SECOND it’s over, all standing in unison

maybe I’ll make a fic of it

#rant post #sorry for the rant #aita #am i the asshole #movie theater etiquette #movies #innocent kids #bad parenting

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shroomkore · 1 day ago

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just realized that everyone who has the worst takes on nosferatu are basing all of their information on the idea that Ellen never wanted any of this and she's just an "innocent clueless poor girl" as if SHE wasn't the one who invoked a death entity and dreamt of all she knew as dead to her marriage with her true love, and was HAPPY about it and deep down truly had NO problem letting everyone die bc they all mistreated her and never once listened to her or anything, just treating her like a hysterical unruly child.

its like these people are completely missing the point that while she tries to cling to this childlike innocence society expects her to have well into adulthood where a woman must be subservient and quiet, she is DESPERATE to release her darkness, her urges, her humanity, but bc she is a woman (an autistic woman at that), its seen as something so dastardly. that's why she married thomas, she wanted to be seen as "correct" in her society and is essentially hoping that Thomas is the cure to all her ailments in life and everything will magically get better. and there is romance between them for sure, but thomas and ellen struggle a lot to see eye to eye. he still treats her as "burdened" and is more dismissive than anything, refuses to listen to her and just assumes things on top of having this mindset of "i need to do whats best for us and what'll make me successful" WHEN LITERALLY ALL SHE WANTS IS HIM AND HIS LOVE AND INTIMACY AND SEX. My husband made a wonderful comment about how it didn't matter that thomas didn't know what the contract orlok gave him said. the moment he chose his work over Ellen, he sold her away for that pouch of gold before knowing it.

ellen has a darkness inside her she keeps trying to fight, fighting her own mortality, her own nature. she keeps denying herself her true feelings and emotions, which Orlok wouldn't understand and be angry over this because "ew wtf why are you restraining your own wants and needs for the approvement of others" because purity culture tends to strip a human of all the things that make us human for the idea of "being closer to God and becoming more Holy". Which is idiocy in itself. thats why she's constantly trying to push orlok away and is tryin everything to let him know she "hates" him, because she's just fighing against herself and self sabotaging herself and he KNOWS this.

anyways if you think a woman isn't capable of having dark urges or doing anything "evil" or actually wanting "bad" things, you're weird af and kinda misogynistic tbh!

and before ANYONE comes for me, let me state this. Movies can have more than one interpretation and be correct in both or more. I fully embrace all interpretations of the movie, but if you try to tell me or other that only ONE is correct, you should step back and reflect on yourself to see why you think that other people having a different opinion is bad. Also, ✨️Law of Paradox✨️

ellen may be depicted as a damsel in distress, but that's because EVERYONE ELSE IS FORCING HER INTO THIS ROLE AND IGNORING HER COMPLETELY. SHE IS POWERFUL SPIRITUALLY.

as a CSA and childhood trauma survivor, i wish death upon all my abusers, rapists, and every instigator in my life who did nothing and/or told me to keep quiet about it to not "tear everything apart" and "ruin other peoples' lives", and i hope it is gruesome and brutal and it is painful the entire time, and i too would love to see their mangled corpses in my happiest moment when im marrying my soulmate who is not only everything ive dreamed of, but who also truly loves me and wants me in their life as i want them.

#nosferatu #nosferatu movie #nosferatu 2024 #nosferaturambles #shroomrambles #shroomkore #adding ellen to my kinlist as we speak #also if any of you guys actually saw lily talk about the film you'd shit and piss everywhere #she was perfect for that role #she understands ellen inside and out

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therookerydatv · 3 days ago

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This is a non-Veilguard post but it is a Solas post and a Varric post so buckle in.

Background: I joined a Veilguard Discord server because I'm insane, and we were discussing Cole and the whole choice to make him a Spirit or more Human, and it almost got into an argument but thankfully it figured quickly, but I was still thinking about it because something about it all rubbed me the wrong way. A lot of people lamented their choice in making Cole more Human or cheered that making Cole more Spirit was the correct choice because of Solas' own regrets and pains that came about from him gaining a mortal body.

Subjectively I have always chosen to make him more human, but I guess me choosing as a player is different from within the context of Inquisition. In DA:I every choice you make has consequences, sometimes trying to backpedal out of a choice once you're far enough in will result in you not getting your way because that's what it all is, Choices and Consequences. As much as the result of Cole's change is on you the player, it's really a Consequence of your favoring Varric or Solas' method.

Solas' entire view of Cole's predicament is colored by his own negative experience of having a body and living in the physical world, waking up to a physical world where the Veil was created just amplifies that regret in pain, every instance of him trying to help with his Wisdom becomes something worse to him personally (All that Wisdom and he can't help himself) but with Cole he actually can help! He can fix this, with not only Wisdom but experience! He's become a person, he doesn't like being a person(and then he does because of the Inquisitor, I feel this is true romance or friendship), so Solas knows that Cole can 'return'(made) more Spirit and the confliction will end.

Varrics positions, his view, I feel is colored by the people he couldn't help, the ones he couldn't help get their revenge or solve their problem in time in a way where no one could get hurt (Cole literally reminds him of Anders just in reverse) And this time, Varric knows better, he knows how to fix this, he knows how to not blow up the Chantry, he can fix it this time. (This time the love will be enough!!)

Objectively, both are answers, I don't think either of them are right, because it's one influence over the other, but a choice has to be made otherwise he'd become a demon.

Solas and Varric are having their idealogical battle(custody battle) over which direction Cole needs to go in to avoid binding or demonhood(which college to send him to). The added layer VG adds to this and every banter Solas and Varric have is also fascinating, because outwardly it's an Elf and a funny Dwarf fighting over the tall awkward Human child, but after VG??? After those regrets??? Girl...

But I feel that reducing that scene to Solavellan at times is... disingenuous, when really, it's a Solvarric scene of we're being objective.

This is THE custody battle of all time. (My weed kicked in bear with me)

Solas' version of his world doesn't exist anymore, the world with no Veil and spirits essentially pillaging the bodies of the Titans to gain bodies doesn't exist anymore, the first victims of what the Elvhen did calls him Chuckles, a demonym in true friendly jest to him, it's the first thing Varric calls him when he reaches out to talk to him at the beginning of Veilguard, up until that point he calls him Solas, the Dread Wolf, Fen'Harel.

Varric is a result of years of time happening to the version of the World Solas brought about. Its...it's like God is talking to a creation of his that has every right to hate him, to want to desire to go back before all the bad shit, and instead Varric says, okay, get the anger out, how do you feel now? Empty? That's okay too, take your time.

Solas is a weary traveler ready to end it all and Varric is the equally weary traveler who says, tell me about it, and then talks your ear off so much you start believing in the world again.

Basically, Varric's method is to embrace the history and the scars, embrace the hurt and once it's done, get something to eat. Varric forgives but doesn't forget, his plan has Cole let go of his anger in the end, but Cole will remember the hurt he felt, and inflicted and so will the people he inflicted them on.

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katerinaaqu · 5 hours ago

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Hello! Been a frequenter on your page and I am I’m love with your work. I have a few questions, and I’m hoping you can re-wire the truth of Greek Mythology for me. (Cause some people…..you know) 1. Have Diomedes and Odysseus met before the Trojan War? If they didn’t, did they have general knowledge of the other at least? 2. I’ve heard that Odysseus wasn’t as physically intimidating as the others, (Agamemnon, Diomedes, etc) Is that true? Because sites and docs make Odysseus seem like he is a tiny, little man who likes to ONLY think in his tent and has everyone else do his heavylifting. Does he at least have some military experience? If you had to assign a body type for him, what actor, influencer, or singer would you say, “yeah that’s him.” 3. I know that Odysseus is, at least, in the morally gray side of the universe. Does he have his moments of “honor”, or certain people’s versions of “morally correct?” Does he have moments of selflessness, bravery, or integrity?

And some silly little questions. Since Odysseus is your favorite character, If he walked into a therapists office/physical examination/got analyzed by a classification system, when he walked out, what mental evaluation would have been made. Ex. PTSD, BPD, etc. (I searched on doctor google, and they said maybe he would be on the spectrum of ASPD.) If Odysseus was alive today, would he still be a schemer, liar, etc. Would it be tamed down? Not looking for the mental gymnastics as much?

I adore your stuff, keep on doing you. I hope to see more.

You are a frequenter to my page and you are asking me on how I feel on people drawing Odysseus as a tiny figure or whether I believe Odysseus is brave?! THE HORROR! Just kidding I am a yapper and I love analyzing that! So here we go every point at the time.

As always viewer's discretion is advised because my yapping will be non-stop!!!! XD

I remember answering that question in the past to someone else who was wondering of it. If we follow sources like Apollodorous for example, Diomedes was one of the suitors of Helen's and he was also bound under the Oath of Tyndareus. I suspect that was why Apollodorous wanted to explain as to why Diomedes was in the war to begin with. So under this version, Odysseus and Diomedes met for the first time in Sparta while both courted Helen. However I do side up more with other sources that do not include him because arguably Diomedes is the youngest or one of the youngest kings around and he would be very young to be courting Helen at that time (Even archaic paintings more often whatnot have him beard-less so that means he was in his 20s, maximum early 30s in the war when Iliad takes place, aka the final years so that means he joined when he was somewhere between 18-20 years of age). That also fits since some readings of the War of the Epigonoi in which Diomedes took part in, happened around 5 years before Troy when Diomedes was 14). As per readings Helen's courting happened 10 to 20 (as per Apollodorous extended narrative which again do not find me agreeable for! Hehe) years before Troy. Diomedes would literally be a child at that time. So I think it is more logical assumption to believe they met for the first time in Aulis at the gathering of the fleet. As for whether they knew each other by narrations, possibly. Judging on how the kings spoke to Diomedes about his father Tydeus, means that they had knowledge of him and his war with the other Seven against Thebes so yes I believe they have heard of each other but I do not think they actually met before Aulis. They are a generation apart after all!

Gosh...yeah I see it all the time and honestly I am soooo tired of it (I mean sure art is art and everyone is free to draw what they want but honestly I don't think I have ever seen something more inaccurate than people draw Odysseus like a tiny skinny guy and man ONLY STAYS IN HIS TENT?! Lol the dude was lifting the entire Trojan War if not the Epic Cycle on his back! XD I even made this post a while back:

Odysseus? Really? The guy that stood his ground against behemoth Ajax in their wrestling in the funeral games of Patroclus? (Sure when Ajax managed to take the upper hand for one second, Odysseus cheated and kicked him behind the knee but then they were wrestling again and literally neither of the two could come on top). Or Odysseus that basically made Irus, the beggar and all the suitors back off in wonder when he showed his body during his match against Irus (of whose jaw he broke with just ONE punch)? The guy whose back and thighs were so thoroughly described in the Odyssey that it became ridiculous!? Hahaha right!

Arguably his first description happens in the Iliad, which I am citing in this analysis of mine in the past:

Odysseus is described usually short or average to short of structure and then Homer proceeds to explain to us how he is wider in the shoulder and the chest than Agamemnon who was a head taller than him. He is described that he looks like a ram, as I mentioned to my analysis; an animal sturdy, proud and strong. Odysseus has arguably one of the best physiques out heroes despite his age (which makes one wonder how he was in his peak at the age of 30 or something)

As for whether he sat in his tent all day I think that if there is even one person who said that he hasn't read a single thing on Homer. Odysseus was always in the center of all action of the war. Yes, he does refrain from rushing in battle (In the Iliad for example he kept his troops away from action till it was their right moment to arrive or that he placed himself as almost for last to fight with Hector because yeah he wasn't in the mood on dying that day!) but he was always fighting to the front lines, he was always inserting himself in the events that were happening. He was taking part in secret missions such as the one we see in the Iliad (Diomedes and himself going to counter-spy the enemy field or in the Odyssey how he literally sneaks in Troy, which is linked to the Palladium of Athena heist story).

As I mention to that humorous post of mine; Odysseus literally does almost everything in the war; he was ambassador, he was settling things between kings when they had conflicts, he was fighting first line when he had to (but knew when to refrain from it to assure his safety and the safety of his men, thus suffering the bare minimum losses at war), he kept everyone together when he had to, he captured Helenus and extracted the prophecy from him, he went to get the Palladium himself, he came up with the Horse idea and he was one of the first inside the horse etc. Even in the Odyssey; he conquered Ismarus, he killed the suitors himself, he was ready to fight gods and monsters for his men etc. I think the sources speak on themselves.

Yes he does have military experience. For starters the slaves in his palace are called δμωαί which means "slave acquired at war" so most likely he did some of it himself. Two he has the bow that was given to him as a gift for offering assistance to Messina (although the exact length or nature of it is not mentioned in the Odyssey) and Penelope informs us that Odysseus faced the Taphian pirates before (when she mentions the incident of Antinous's father arriving to the palace chased after and begged Odysseus to save his life). Odysseus definitely has military experience (possibly his military successes made him also king while his father was alive, potentially Laertes recognized his son's talent and retired) but it seems that his military experience was not of a large or extended scale (for example like Diomedes) or of conquering nature (like Agamemnon or Diomedes, the first expanded the influence of his kingdom and the latter conquered Thebes, took control of Argos and regained control of his grandfather's lands for him) but they seem rather of domestic nature, such as the mutiny of the Taphians, an area close to his kingdom or offering assistance to a fellow king without getting too much into detail.

Hmm hard to say that I can find some straight out similarity to Odysseus that is a very good question.

I think though so far the greatest resemblance I could find was Christos Tsagas who played Odysseus in Iphigenia movie in 1977 whom I am mentioning here:

And here:

That was literally my moment of

3. Actually I have referred to the matter in another answer of mine:

As I mentioned to that ask of mine, I think the characterization of "morally gray" for Odysseus at least as far as Homer is concerned is not doing him full justice. Odysseus has no problem recognize right from wrong nor does he make bad decisions without thinking even if he knows is not morally correct. Yes, he oftentimes is ready to cheat (see for example the match of Ajax) and he is capable of twisting his words on certain things but he doesn't seem to be the type of person that consistently breaks the law for the loves of it (now his version on certain post-homeric sources such as the plays of Euripides who was consistently writing Odysseus negatively, or Conon, who is the oldest known version to my knowledge of the story in which he tries to backstab Diomedes) I do not see much to characterize him as such. Perhaps the alleged murder of Palamedes would be one (even if we do not know what the contribution of Odysseus was in the Epic Cycle for sure given how we only know Epic Cyle moments from scholiasts and later sources, but as I said I find it way too complicated matter to characterize him straight out as "morally gray" in general much less for Homer

However I absolutely understand what you mean.

Once again I get disappointed when people always assume that Odysseus is like the dude that would step on you to save his ass and laugh in the night about it when we have literally the lengths to which he went in the ENTIRE Odyssey which I analyze here:

Or how he went to save Diomedes in Rhapsody 11 in Iliad! He literally rushed to his assistance and gave him his chariot and stayed behind to cover his retreat. Odysseus also is named the most pious to the gods and the best when it comes to sacrifices by Zeus himself. He protects his men by literally sacrificing his own body when he was forced to accept Circe's bed and mind you he was ready to face her WITHOUT knowing how to beat her spell. Hermes just happened to be on his way. Odysseus didn't know that he would have help. He literally went towards the unknown, with just his sword at hand, to face an immortal witch without knowing what to do because he cared for his men and he was planning his way through. He was ready to fight Skylla. He also tried to test the suitors so all of them wouldn't need to die. He also scolds his wetnurse for wishing to cry out of joy upon seeing the results of the slaughter.

Even in post-homeric sources we know from Pausanias that Odysseus gave Penelope a choice whether she wanted to marry him or return to her father. So he respected her decision. In Sophocles's "Ajax" he feels sympathy for Ajax's condition and he insists upon giving him a proper burial when all other kings turned their backs on him. He also protects the body of Achilles alongside Ajax before that etc.

I think people saying Odysseus has no honor or integrity or that he is totally immoral or that he is not brave or has no selflessness simply haven't read enough of Odysseus. The entirety of the Odyssey was him trying to save what he can from his crew and placing himself in harm's way for them and protecting them with all he had.

~~~~~~~~

Hmm that is an interesting question. Quite frankly I do not think it is fair to always find disorders or syndromes to the Greek heroes and such because just because someone has certain behavioral patterns doesn't necessarily mean they need to be diagnosed just like with everyday people after all. What is more certain behavioral patterns in Greek mythology can be partially "ignored" in one way given how the ancient Greek sources also speak of pre-determined events and such so the agency of the heroes is rather blurry subject but that being said here we go.

I absolutely wouldn't say that Odysseus belongs to the Antisocial Personality Disorder spectrum. Especially when Homer is concerned. I mean as per DSM-5 ASPD in order to be diagnosed we have:

A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others, occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors, as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest. (Odysseus doesn't conform to social norms? Who is the one in charge for sacrifices? Who respects the gods to the level of not wishing to offer assistance to people at war because they break the rules Odysseus who desires to honor the customs of Xenia to the extreme? The only "social norm" he doesn't seem to be dealing with is the direct "heroic" battle and he prefers to use wits to do his bidding. Is that outside the ideal social role? Yes. Was he though encouraged or helped by Athena? The goddess that literally dictates some basic social norms? Also yes. Him not being conformed in one specific pattern is not necessarily sign of disorder otherwise everyone's uniqueness is considered a symptom XD As for the things he steals or takes I remind you the actions were encouraged by Athena or placed up by the circumstances or dictated by prophecies and ironically most of the actions happen in harsh warfare. I doubt anyone would be judged if they stole information from an enemy base to help your side. In fact Odysseus resents the idea of stealing from the cave of Polyphemus and run even if his men want to)

Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure. ("for personal profit or pleasure" is the key here. When does Odysseus lie and use aliases? When he needs to protect himself or when he needs to protect others for example with the suitors or Polyphemus. I mean who would go in a room full of men who wanna murder you, over 100 of them, and you would say "hey what's up! It is I!" or in Polyphemus? Who wouldn't lie or hide? In other cases when Odysseus hides his identity or lies about it is when he is not certain he is safe. He doesn't lie just to deceive others and get himself gain something that belongs to others -unless we count some versions created in future sources-. His aliases are usually created for some reason and let's be honest in the situations he was in, most of us would have done the same. Even in Philoctetes where he basically says that he would be a chameleon and slither himself in every situation when the situation calls for it, is also an interesting thing to imagine that we often do so as well don't we? We try to form ourselves up to a situation if we need to.)

Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead. (Impulsivity in certain cases is done by everyone. You do take impulsive decisions or do something out of impulse. In order for this to be pathologic one needs to be doing it consistently. Odysseus arguably always plans ahead. He literally planned the whole "I am nobody" trick so that just in case Polyphemus had allies with him the fake name would confuse them, which actually happpened. He also arguably created allies to both Tyndareus and himself with the Oath of Tyndareus. The fact that he didn't calculate Menelaus would use the oath to get Helen back 10 years later I am not sure if it actually counts as "inability to plan ahead". Also miscalculations to a plan can still happen for example not calculate the true magnitude of of the taking of Troy but again I doubt if that counts again as "failiure to plan ahead". Quite frankly his scheme to take Troy was a perfect success. The fact that several of his schemes turn boomerang against him might as well be seen through the spectrum of fate as well. As for certain impulsive things that he does aka reveling his name to Polyphemus one can say who wouldn't have done so if you think the extreme anxious situation that he was under; days and days of psychological torment and extreme anxiety with barely any sleep or proper food and such? Who wouldn't lose control?)

Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults. (Aggressiveness is definitely part of his persona in more ways than one. But of course that is part of multiple psychological conditions including Anxiety and Depression and of course Odysseus even in Iliad was already a 10 year war veteran which again is behavior often seen in those who have been through warfare)

Reckless disregard for safety of self or others. (Regardless of safety? Odysseus? Who is always keeping his men out of harm's way or advises them to do so? At war he gets in battle when it is the best moment for him and his men, in the Odyssey he repeatedly warns them against certain decisions etc. The fact that more often whatnot Odysseus thinks of death or has some reckless or impulsive decision is again not done consistently and we see that we have moments like that in our everyday life as well)

Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations. (Consistent irresponsibility for the man that was basically looked upon every time something bad happened to fix it? The man that always advised others to make good decisions? The man that seems the very definition of "one pays his depts" guy? I would say not. He often speaks on his emotions and mind you the fact that he managed to sustain provisions on Helios's islands and feed 40 men for an elongated amount of time while famish lasted I would say he knows how to manage his economics and such! Hahaha!)

Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another (He bawls his eyes out of remorse in the island of Phaeakes not once but TWICE when he hears a man singing about Troy. Odysseus is not void of emotion or of the essence of right or wrong and he definitely shows remorse for his actions or he knows when he has to admit it for example he knows the act of murder of the suitors was arguably wrong and yet necessary as per Athena's advise as well but again as far as Homer is concerned)

Of course bear in mind that I am no psychologist or psychiatrist so these are my interpretation as someone who is enthusiastic on psychology.

As I said above I think people making Odysseus's lies as something that consists his whole persona as if he has nothing else to offer is wrong in the first place because if one thinks the conditions he lived in he was always on his guard and worried. So even if one speaks on the lies being too many, they are not necessarily a product of ASPD. Lying is also part of others like PTSD or Depression given how many people lie out of fear or worry over something.

That being said if in modern age Odysseus was a survivor of a terrible tragedy and a war veteran on top of that then absolutely he would act on a similar basis as well as others

So instead of that I think one thing I would "diagnose" Odysseus with, again based on the homeric poems mainly would be

PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)

For PTSD as per DSM-5:

A. Exposure to actual or threatened death, serious injury, or sexual violence in one (or more) of the following ways:

Directly experiencing the traumatic event(s). (Ι mean...no need to elaborate here now do we?)

Witnessing, in person, the event(s) as it occurred to others. (This speaks on its own. He has experienced both trauma at war by being hurt or chased after or under stress or he was raped and used lost and almost died multiple times or witnessed people die around him such as his fellow kings -Ajax- or his comrades)

Learning that the traumatic event(s) occurred to a close family member or close friend. In cases of actual or threatened death of a family member or friend, the event(s) must have been violent or accidental. (He literally met his mother in the underworld who told him she died of sorrow while waiting of him, he saw his comrade Elpenor and he found out he died, he heard that his wife was struggling and that his father lost his mind among others)

Experiencing repeated or extreme exposure to aversive details of the traumatic event(s) (e.g., first responders collecting human remains: police officers repeatedly exposed to details of child abuse). (This part is tricky because as far as the Odyssey is concerned we do not know how often Odysseus was experiencing dreams or flashbacks of what happened although arguably he was always remembering it, for example when he was mistreated by the suitors he was reminding himself to endure because he had endured worse before and he remembers Polyphemus so we can assume he definitely had some close calls with his past and dreams before or at least that he constantly thinks of them)

So as per the B section of DSM we do have the factor of reoccurring memories or dreams. As I said as far as Odyssey is concerned we do not have much on the stimuli through dreams however if I may draw the attention to one of the factors:

Recurrent Involuntary and intrusive distressing memories of the traumatic event(s) (Odysseus cries his eyes out once a heroic song about Troy begins to play. His memory of the war sneaks in to the point that he blows his anonymity and not only that his memory is stimulated enough to say his story and explain himself to the presented members)

As per the C part of it:

C. Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning after the traumatic event(s) occurred, as evidenced by one or both of the following:

Avoidance of or efforts to avoid distressing memories, thoughts, or feelings about or closely associated with the traumatic event(s). (Odysseus doesn't want to reveal his identity again. When he is taken in by Nausicaa he hides who he is. He doesn't speak on himself. He avoids the subject altogether. He knows he has little to no possibility to get the help he needs without honoring the part of Xenia law that involves himself to reveal who he is and yet he is not ready to speak up)

Avoidance of or efforts to avoid external reminders (people, places, conversations, activities, objects, situations) that arouse distressing memories, thoughts, or feelings about or closely associated with the traumatic event(s). (Odysseus refuses to take part to athletic activities in Scheria. He doesn't want to blow his cover but also potentially he knows that this brings him memories from the funerary games of the army. He also knows he will always go in full force at what he does so participating would blow his cover and potentially make him reveal who he is, something he avoids)

D. Negative alterations in cognitions and mood associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning or worsening after the traumatic event(s) occurred, as evidenced by two (or more) of the following:

Inability to remember an important aspect of the traumatic event(s) (typically due to dissociative amnesia and not to other factors such as head injury, alcohol, or drugs). (This one doesn't apply here because Odysseus has a very sharp memory. He explains everything in detail. We also do not see him in Homer abusing alcohol or anything else -and I mean it IS an ancient text after all Homer was no psychologist)

Persistent and exaggerated negative beliefs or expectations about oneself, others, or the world (e.g., “I am bad,” “No one can be trusted,” ‘The world is completely dangerous,” “My whole nervous system is permanently ruined”). (Odysseus often talks with regret about his decisions during his narration but he also expresses rage many times over on the events that took place. He also calls his comrades "mindless" many times over especially on events that marked his trip's outcome such as the sack of Aeolus or the cows of Helios. Of course that is only natural in one essence so it doesn't necessarily need to be a symptom but I am throwing that to the table)

Persistent, distorted cognitions about the cause or consequences of the traumatic event(s) that lead the individual to blame himself/herself or others. (Once more even though Odysseus doesn't specifically speak on cause and effect apart from the mentions we get in the Odyssey but he does seem to try and figure the root of the problem. He is also speaking negatively on himself or speaking on shameful moments of his trip also certain things like Imsarus he just mentions them. He doesn't even get to elaborate those but moments such as Charybdis or Skylla etc were thoroughly described! Or the shipwreck)

Persistent negative emotional state (e.g., fear, horror, anger, guilt, or shame). (Once again explanation not needed; ashamed to be washed by maidens, fear that he might be trapped again, angry and irritated, feeling guilt. All the emotions in the Odyssey are here)

Markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities. (He is not interested in showing his potential to the Phaeakes or speak of his name or heritage even when he heard the song for the first time so he might have clues that they are positively thinking towards him)

Feelings of detachment or estrangement from others. (He is a stranger, a beggar. He sits in the corner. Most of the time he is silent. He is the oddity in the room. He doesn't become the center of attention till his emotions betray him and he has to speak to the Phaeakes on who he is)

Persistent inability to experience positive emotions (e.g., inability to experience happiness, satisfaction, or loving feelings). (He is crying for seven years at the beach longing for his home. He is rarely ever pictured laughing. His feelings of distrust and anger continue and expand even to his wetnurse whom he feels he has to threaten in order to be on the safe side. He feels betrayed by the gods even as he calls out to Athena and reminds her that she didn't help him when he needed her the most)

E. Marked alterations in arousal and reactivity associated with the traumatic event(s), be ginning or worsening after the traumatic event(s) occurred, as evidenced by two (or more) of the following:

Irritable behavior and angry outbursts (with little or no provocation) typically expressed as verbal or physical aggression toward people or objects. (Odysseus definitely shows irritable behavior through and through to the Iliad when he beats up Thersites to make an example out of him or when he loses control when Eurylochus hurts his ego by calling out to him for being enchanted by Circe and he basically brings up a painful memory; the Cyclops incident. Odysseus cannot take this and he is ready to literally slay his brother-in-law on the spot and he is stopped by the others)

Reckless or self-destructive behavior. (HERE is where I would put some of that recklessness we see in the Odyssey; Odysseus wishing to rescue his men no matter what; he is ready to fight a goddess with little to no plan to save the little he has left of men after his loss by the Laestrigonians, he is ready to fight Skylla for them, he provokes the suitors to see who is rotten and who is not.)

Hypervigilance. (No explanation needed here! Odysseus constantly sees enemies and reasons to distrust people. He doesn't allow his men near the sack of winds, he remains awake even to do it all by himself. He saw danger to the bay of Laestrygonians and tied his ship outside the bay -and he was proven right-, despite the fact he was in friendly company, he hides himself from the Phaeakes and he constantly tests or measures people, even his wetnurse needs to be threatened in his mind, even the loyal slave Eumeus needs to wait a bit before fully trusted to be placed within the scheme he was planning. Even when the Phaeakes were proven true to him and brought him home, when he woke up and he didn't recognize his own country, his first thought was that the Phaeakes tricked him.)

Exaggerated startle response. (He literally grabs his wetnurse by the throat when she is ready to shout. He is even threatening on top of that to make sure that she will not speak up despite his orders)

Problems with concentration. (This doesn't seem to apply here since Odysseus is hyper focused most of the time either when he tells his story or when he is planning the murder of the suitors)

Sleep disturbance (e.g., difficulty falling or staying asleep or restless sleep). (This one again is tricky since we have no clue but at the moments we see Odysseus sleeping for example during his return, we see him sleep peacefully. We do not see much on nightmares he might or might not have. Perhaps he has some but the thought of his homeland puts him at peace)

Suicidal thoughts are also common and Odysseus thought about ending his own life many times over in the Odyssey; from the moment the sack of winds was opened and he saw his home away once more till the moment he was at Calypso's isle and he was thinking of death daily.

The dude even had a syndrome named after him known as "Ulysses Syndrome" or migrant syndrome of chronic and multiple stress Basically it involves chronic stress especially for people who spent years in anxiety while moving from one place to another (to put it very roughly)

Okay please psychologists and psychiatrists do not come and have my head for this I am only doing this for fictional characters and not for real people, I am just enthusiast of psychology and not an actual psychologist so yeah...guys be gentle with me! XD

But yeah I think this whole thing on "Odysseus is a liar" as if that is his reason of existence or that he is like a pathological liar or that he doesn't have any sort of moral code I feel like it misses the whole point of the homeric hero (although some examples of post-homeric and roman sources might fit that better)

Hope this answers some of your questions dear Anon and sorry this was sooooooo long! Yeah I am normal about that guy! XD

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cripplecharacters · 1 day ago

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Hi,

So, I have written expression disorder and dysgraphia, which means this might be a bit rambly or unclear but I’ll try my best to stay on as clear and as brief as I can.

I’m currently writing a fanfiction for Wynonna Earp as a way to improve my writing skills without needing to stress about it. Background on the show: It’s a supernatural show based around a descendant of Wyatt Earp who was a legal officer in the wild west and got involved in a massive feud. It also has his friend Doc Holliday becoming immortal and being a love interest for the main character. The primary reason I’m doing this is because I dislike how they portrayed Doc Holliday in the series (often outright the opposite of the reality) and also because they just left out the fact he was disabled completely. Due to a gunshot wound when he was fairly young, probably along with weakness due to having tuberculosis for most of his adult life, which did eventually kill him, he used a cane part time. He also had a cleft lip and palate that was surgically corrected and he got surgery for it as an infant and had speech therapy, which doesn’t really seem to have impacted his adult life much in what I’m writing.

I do have chronic pain due to an injury which was pretty bad when I was younger, so having a character who’s portrayed as dealing with that and continuing to be brave and selfless would have meant the whole world to me at that point in my life and still will. But as I was doing research I ran into a few things I knew very little about.

My own disabilities are invisible, which means that I don’t have much experience with how people respond to seeing mobility aids. It would be interesting to show people’s responses, especially since he pretty famously took offense easily and didn’t leave things alone. There’s a fun scene there but I’m not sure what a common response to set it off would be. The biggest problem I have, that I haven’t been able to find a lot about: according to a medical article I read even when it’s cured people who had tuberculosis typically have some lung damage. I haven’t been able to find a lot on how that would impact someone day to day. He was cured of it magically but the idea of there still being damage makes sense based on the in universe rules and also someone being magically cured is generally considered not good. So how would it impact someone on a daily basis?

There’s some things in the research I did that make me think he was autistic (namely literal thinking to the point where he almost killed someone due to not understanding that a duel was meant to be a joke as a teen). Or maybe I’m just projecting because I am. Any ideas for how somebody who grew up in a time where nuerodivergence just wasn’t known would accommodate himself and be helped by friends? How would they understand it at that time?

How in general do friends respond to disabilities and try to help now?

There’s a few other things but they’re mainly just me being a beginner writer who doesn’t honestly. Thank you so much for reading through this even if you don’t end up responding!

[part 2] clarification: I meant the cleft palate wouldn't come up in what I'm writing because he's an adult and it didn't seem to have huge bearing on his adult life. I'm so sorry I left out part of that sentence in my ask bc I have a learning disability! didn't mean to! I'm so sorry and thank you again!

Hello!

People respond in many ways. In the modern west a lot of it involves random strangers being intrusive as shit ("what happened to you??") but in historical times I think it would be more of avoidance, especially if he has visible symptoms of tuberculosis. People still think that "visibly disabled person coughing = plague". If you're going for historical accuracy, it wouldn't really surprise me if strangers didn't want to sit next to him.

Long tuberculosis (affecting 25% of those who had TB) seems to be very similar to COPD, so the main day-to-day effect would probably be fatigue, being out of breath after physical exertion, etc. COPD is an incredibly common disability so you should be able to find a lot of info about it and how it can be managed.

Friends will also respond in many ways, and it also depends a lot on the disabled person. This guy sounds like the "hyper-independent physically disabled man" type and in my experience most of them don't talk about their needs much, especially not with the boys. In this case the accommodation is often just silently agreed on after spending some time together (e.g., after a few times going out they can see how annoyed he gets when they suddenly change plans so they learn to tell him as soon as they know, if he drops something they pick it up for him without saying anything since they know it's tiring for him to get up, etc.). If they know him well enough to know he takes offense easily they probably wouldn't bring up his inability to do something to not upset him and try to work around it instead.

I don't have enough historical knowledge to answer the second question, so I'll leave it to other mods. But I think it'd make sense if they just thought he was eccentric or weird rather than having a medical condition.

Hope this helps,

mod Sasza

Hello, thank you for your ask! In regards to the second question, it would depend on his symptoms, how well/if he could mask, and how other people view(ed) him.

I'm assuming he's level 1 / low support needs, as you don't mention him having a caretaker or difficulty doing tasks. Some of the examples include specific autistic traits that he may or may not have/used to have, they're mostly there to be examples. These are also assuming you're writing him as an adult only, if you want some info on how it would be like growing up during this time let us know!

Without good knowledge of autism, most people would think he's very strange if he cannot [fully] mask. Flat affect, lack of social understanding and other symptoms would make most allistic people uncomfortable, with responses ranging from thinking he's just weird [and would want to avoid him] to believing he's angry at them specifically [and would either want to avoid him or get aggressive themselves]. Most people will probably just see it as character quirks rather than symptoms of anything, or even think he's choosing to act the way he does. His friends would most likely be other neurodivergent people who either experience the same symptoms or don't have enough of a social understanding to realize he's not acting 'correctly' if he doesn't mask.

Unless his friends/family experience similar symptoms to him, they probably wouldn't understand why he does/reacts the way he does. This isn't to say they wouldn't try to accommodate him still, that moreso depends on the individual, but those who don't understand might try to push him to 'get over it' more than someone who gets it. Like Sasza said, over time his friends would be able to accommodate him by noticing what makes him upset/happy and how to help. 'Doc likes to keep his hands busy so I gave him my butterfly knife to spin' or ' the yelling in the hall was bothering him so I asked if he wanted to go to outside with me' could be ways of accommodating him without realizing, basically seeing his symptoms and trying to find an easy solution to help, wether or not they understand them. They could also give him unhelpful solutions while trying to accommodate, which would probably just further stress Doc if given in a stressful situation. Essentially unless he knows what helps and tells them it would be a guessing game for them [if he does that or his friend[s] respect it depends on them]. Try to think of his symptoms and what might be available at the time to help [like stim toys didn't exist back then but butterfly knives did, and ear defenders weren't a thing but he could walk away if needed].

As to how he'd accommodate himself, he wouldn't know words like 'stim' or 'overstimulated,' but if he doesn't care about/understand social norms he would be more likley to 'move in odd ways' or exit an upsetting area. A more socially conscious person might try to hide it, like using small tactile stims [i.e. rubbing a cloth or tapping his foot] or making excuses to leave an upsetting area. He might also be able to mask and try to just bear it, only unmasking around friends or in private.

Also the wiki said he was born in 1851 but died in 2020, and although autism would be named during his lifetime I'm not sure he would identify with it. The first medical documentation of autism was in 1877, and at the time it was called developmental [r-slur]. I doubt he'd want to identify with that, and even later on autism was only ever studied in children, and of course was not thought of well. It was thought to be caused by cold parenting or a form of psychosis/schizophrenia exclusive to children in the early to mid 1900's. For many, many years the only idea of autism he'd have would essentially be that. Because most studies at the time thought autism could be 'grown out of' [with exception to higher support needs people] he'd have lived most of his life at that point believing it was a child only disease. Even if he hadn't heard about autism until the late 1900's-early 2000's, it was still thought of as a stigmatized childhood disease by the public until recently [even by people today, hence the blog's existence]. If he's the type of character to be less set in his opinions at an old age then maybe later he could read on modern autism and identify with it, but I find older people tend to prefer dismissing disability for the sake of avoiding any change.

I hope this was at all helpful!

Mod Rot

#mod sasza #violethunter0816 #mod rot #historical fiction #tuberculosis representation #autism representation #historical setting #disability history #ableism

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tvckerwash · 2 hours ago

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I don't think there's much point in discussing which version of jayce (or any character for the matter) is more "morally correct", and a majority of your post isn't even about the characters' moral and ethical differences. I understand the point you're making, but season one of arcane was an adaption of league lore that functioned as a prequel to the main universe, and while it was never intended to replace the games canon they still took a great level of care to expand upon the existing material when writing the characters despite the differences between them.

jayce talis and jayce giopara have the same core personality traits and hold the same core principles, talis is simply an alternative interpretation of giopara with the writers choosing to focus on different attributes of jayce’s character that were better fit for the story they wanted to tell with arcane.

(continued utc because this got a bit long)

for the sake of this analysis I’m ignoring season two because it sucks and I hate it and those are not the same fucking guys. you are free to disagree, I’m just making it clear where I stand and why I’ve chosen to not address certain points.

he ignores the council and does what he wants, enacting vigilante justice at the cost of innocent lives (including an actual child).

giopara also enacts vigilante justice at the cost of innocent lives. when viktor stole the hexite crystal he didn’t tell anyone and instead built his hammer, went down to zaun, killed all of the people whose lives viktor was trying to save because he assumed viktor was up to no good despite admitting he didn’t know what the glorious evolution was about, and he started smashing everything in sight after viktor tried to kill him because he assumed all of the people hooked up to viktor’s machine were already dead. only after destroying the entire warehouse and the crystal did he go back to piltover where he finally told the proper authorities of the situation, and with only his side of the story being told he was lauded as a hero for his actions despite being anything but.

the difference between that and talis’ raid on the shimmer factory with vi is that talis did not have the luxury of ignorance that giopara did. talis had to witness the harm his rash actions caused and was forced to confront the role he played in the conditions that lead to that child being killed directly by a shot from the weapon he never should have made. even though he was only trying to do what he believed was the right thing—the good thing—to do, he realized that he isn’t the hero he dreamed he was.

he doesn’t THINK. he has no sense of consequences—of course if you keep unsecured, highly unstable and explosive materials in your residential apartment, things might blow up in your face (literally!). of course your patron won’t support you—she is beholden to social opinion.

again, this is also applicable to giopara, though it’s not that he has no sense of consequence in general, but that he doesn’t understand the consequences his assumptions and preconceived biases have. you even showcase an example of this phenomenon later in the post:

he doesn’t speak up for viktor when the stanwick thing happens, it’s true, but doubtless he simply expected viktor to wow and amaze with a different project and be happy with the credit from that.

and then giopara. he has no true family, instead is left to the bloodthirsty clans who want him for what he can give them. + he hates politics and only gets into them to appease his investors so he can do what he actually wants.

talis is also constantly beholden to the whims of the piltovian elite and was forced into politics to appease investors. throughout season one we see his frustration with the system, whether it be red tape keeping him and viktor from doing what they wish to do with hextech, or the rampant corruption he is forced to participate in upon having the role of councilor thrust upon him with no warning and against his wishes. the frustration is what fuels his decision to kick heimerdinger off the council, his decision to order the blockade, his decision to raid the shimmer factory with vi, and his decision to seek out silco in order to negotiate for zaun’s independence. the culmination of that arc results in this moment from episode nine:

talis is DONE with all of the bullshit, and for all intents and purposes I had expected him to have some sort of depression induced assholeification arc in season two that would’ve brought him somewhat more in line with his league personality, but obviously that didn't happen.

he’s alone, alone, alone. and then he’s not. he meets this other brilliant mind, the only one who can keep up with him. i mean how insane would that be? he must have been at least a little obsessed with viktor because of that.

this is talis’ arc in act one. no one believed in the idea that magic could be utilized by science, no believed that it could be used for good, not even his own mother believed him. he’d been shunned by everybody who once supported him, and just as he’s about to end it all, here comes this guy who says “hey, you’re on to something. I believe in hextech, I believe in you, and I want to help make this dream of yours a reality.” talis’ immediate response is to go “no, this is OUR dream.” that is not normal individual behavior.

then picture jayce, in all his egotistical glory, drunk on life and the belief that he and viktor are the brightest minds alive, when viktor shows him the diver suits. why does he resist? why does he care? no one in his life is telling him to care. he just does. he sees the devices for what they are, or at least what they could be twisted to be, and calls viktor out on it.

this is such an odd point, why does giopara resist? why does he care? you shouldn’t have to be told to care about something to care about it. this is not a point in giopara’s favor over talis that makes him “better”, because talis also cares about things without being told to. why does he resist heimerdinger regarding his disapproval of the hexcore? why does he care? because he sees the hexcore for what it is, what it could be—a cure to save his best friends life—and he’s tired of heimerdinger and his fear of progress being a roadblock, so he calls him out on it and uses his newfound power as a councilor to kick him off of it.

in conclusion, jayce talis is just jayce giopara if he had character development and his characterization revolved around the societal conflict between piltover and zaun instead of the personal conflict between him and viktor.

here comes a long post i’m fucking sorry lmao

a really interesting point was raised the other day about who the better person is (morally): jayce talis or jayce giopara? [insert obligatory admission about the fact that giopara has an annoying personality].

Like, talis is of course nice and kind and wonderful, perhaps a bit naive, but i don’t think we talk about how far he’s willing to go for what he believes. he weaponizes hextech because mel asks him to, and he doesn’t think further. he blatantly ignores viktor’s wishes about destroying the hexcore, even using it on his corpse to reanimate him. he ignores the council and does what he wants, enacting vigilante justice at the cost of innocent lives (including an actual child). he set up the fucking hexgates in such a way that they pollute the water supply of the undercity. and then, when he’s back from his sabbatical in hell, he goes to viktor. he looks him in the eyes, with the weapon he never wanted him to make, and he shoots him. what the actual fuck this guy is unhinged. he doesn’t THINK. he has no sense of consequences—of course if you keep unsecured, highly unstable and explosive materials in your residential apartment, things might blow up in your face (literally!). of course your patron won’t support you—she is beholden to social opinion. of course weapons can never be unmade and are always used. of course using the scary magical dodecahedron your partner begged you to destroy to bring said partner back from the dead will bring him back Different ™️. come on Jayce.

and then giopara. he has no true family, instead is left to the bloodthirsty clans who want him for what he can give them. he’s antisocial. he’s fucking annoying. he’s a diva 💜. he’s impossible to work with but impossible to get rid of because he’s just that smart. he hates politics and only gets into them to appease his investors so he can do what he actually wants. he doesn’t give a fuck about the common people who look up to him so much. he’s alone, alone, alone. and then he’s not. he meets this other brilliant mind, the only one who can keep up with him. i mean how insane would that be? he must have been at least a little obsessed with viktor because of that. then picture jayce, in all his egotistical glory, drunk on life and the belief that he and viktor are the brightest minds alive, when viktor shows him the diver suits. why does he resist? why does he care? no one in his life is telling him to care. he just does. he sees the devices for what they are, or at least what they could be twisted to be, and calls viktor out on it. he doesn’t speak up for viktor when the stanwick thing happens, it’s true, but doubtless he simply expected viktor to wow and amaze with a different project and be happy with the credit from that. and then viktor leaves. and jayce is a one man act again. like always. like forever and always. jayce acts wrongly, it’s true, when it comes to viktor and destroying his lab and accidentally killing those people, but he saw what he thought was evil and he went for it. no thought of what he could lose. no thought of who he could lose.

idk man there’s something about these two. by no means do i think talis is a bad person, in fact i think he’s a fundamentally good one. but he’s just so fucking naive, and towards the end he’s willing to do ANYTHING for what he believes, no matter the grisly consequences. he’s fucking scary. he’s unhinged. giopara on the other hand has a terrible personality, but is completely unwavering in his beliefs no matter the cost to himself or his relationships. viktor asked him to work together again, and he said “get a psyche eval” and slammed the door.

#sorry for dropping an essay on you op for if I do not yap I will explode and die #text #not t/oaru #not r/vb #arcane #still not making a lol tag < is my lol tag #q

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acesammy · 11 months ago

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the 2 colleges i have gone to now (or 2 of the 3 technically lol) are rival schools, and i am pretty firm in my belief now that the other one is better

#rip to this one but jesus christ #i keep getting docked on THEE dumbest shit #i just got docked on my math exam bc my square root was /just slightly/ lazily written #as in it was the square root of an equation that ended in cos(theta)#and the radical covered the cos but not the theta #which was /just slightly bad handwriting/#and they docked me and said i got the answer wrong #which. i did not. it was literally correct #like how tf are ppl with poor handwriting supposed to get through this lmao??#and its like. if the cos(theta) wasnt supposed to be under the root #i would've put it in parentheses /outside/ of the root #or more likely #i would've put it /in front/ of the root #to make it obvious that is wasnt /under the fucking root/#the reason i didnt do that #/is bc it was under the fucking root/#anyways #it literally doesnt matter #i still got an A on the exam #but this is like the 7th example of /extremely harsh/ and unproductive grading that i have encountered at this school so far #and its only been like a month

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dykedvonte · 3 months ago

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I think it says something that Jimmy absolutely destroyed the crew and ship in half the time Curly was captain. Like he couldn’t even get them past 2 full months before breaking down.

Like he really couldn’t be half the man he thought Curly was.

#like I think it’s crazy cause the whole trip from when we start the game is like 6 months #they are only six months into the trip post crash it’s why getting help was so futile #they had to survive another 6-7 with almost no resources sense most actual food resources where blocked off or destroyed #I see people saying they were surviving for six months after the crash or at least five but it’s only two #they were on the ship for 4 months before hand like the time frames we play are extremely small in retrospect #it’s like what 187 days when we get into the game? that’s about 6 months total #like I’m sorry this is also about peop saying Anya was liek 5 months pregnant but I think a big point is the assault just happened and Curly #didn’t react to it correct initially cause like have you seen someone whose 5 months pregnant? Anya is clearly not even with artistic l #liberty like 2 months is perfect because it’s literally like the time when you confirm the pregnancy is stable and can feel the first signs #of life which is why she was getting worse and worse cause it was getting to the point she couldn’t hide it from Swansea and Daisuke and Jim #he already knew but imagine him seeing her with a stomach? he’d lose it completely #it was just showing signs of life hence the ultrasound and horse fetus and the heart beat #like the minimum time is around 8-10 weeks which is two months like the two months is super intentional both in accordance to what he did #and the time before hand #mouthwashing #anya mouthwashing #jimmy mouthwashing #curly mouthwashing #mouthwashing game #captain curly #nurse anya

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kakarotcake · 3 months ago

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Had a giant early morning realization on why I enjoy Gochi as much as I do. (I wrote a lot in this; there's a TLDR at the end but please read through my hopefully-coherent rambling to get full context.)

It's specifically because of how non-conventional they are. They didn't date / go through a courting phase before they got married. They barely knew each other at all in fact. Yet, Goku felt unbothered enough to honor a promise he made as a child, and agreed to go forward with the marriage anyway. Chi Chi stayed committed to Goku's promise, despite how she didn't know him, and literally got his consent as an adult first before they went on.

And they made it work.

I so wish we got to see the 5 years of Goku and Chi Chi living together + the early years of Gohan's youth, but specifically because I would like to see just how they each adapted to their new living situation. But regardless, the fact remains that they STAYED together. Chi Chi for sure would've left Goku if she was that unhappy with how Goku just isn't a conventional guy when it comes to relationships. Going home to her dad and resuming being Fire / Frypan Mountain's Princess was always right there as an option. Hell Chi Chi's been identified as an attractive lady in-universe, so she could probably meet someone new before long! But she didn't take it. IIRC, she never has.

I also feel like Goku would also get up and leave if he was unhappy. He's never had to force himself to sacrifice his own happiness for someone else as he lived on Paozu by himself for years, then spent the rest of his teenhood traveling around & training, so if presented with that kind of scenario he wouldn't think twice before being like "ok whatever, see ya" and just peacing out. He wouldn't see the point in staying, since why would he make himself stay somewhere he isn't welcomed or doesn't feel welcome? Grandpa Gohan's old home was always there for him.

My personal biggest gripes with their relationship have honestly never been because of how they had little chemistry before they got together. For me it's always been about how Chi Chi is just treated like a joke by the writer(s); she follows an angry housewife stereotype. Sure, it's supposed to be a joke and she's supposed to come off as comedic, but it only ends up doing damage because it encourages you as a viewer to not take Chi Chi or her relationship with Goku seriously. (I'm ignoring Goku here, but his writing in DBS *anime wise at least* is atrocious and further fed into this btw.)

Yet, from what I've seen over the years in the western fanbase, people's biggest issues with Gochi (aside from general Chi Chi hatred) is because it isn't a conventional relationship. It had hardly any chemistry going into it. I understand that logic, don't get me wrong, but I only understand it when I factor in society's amatonormative & allonormative lens. And I hate both of those things. Gochi not complying with them is what I find charming about the ship.

They didn't date or establish a super deep bond or whatever, yet they lived together in peace for 5 years. They continued to bounce off of one another throughout Z. Chi Chi NEVER remarried or even dated someone while Goku was dead for 7 years. She was crying happy tears when he finally returned at the end of the Buu saga. Goku was more than happy to go home with her and their kids (and tbh I'm 99.99% sure he wouldn't have minded if Chi Chi chose to get with someone else - he chose to stay dead after all). OBVIOUSLY they care for one another a lot, despite how they married each other as strangers. They themselves are narrative (if that's the right word) proof that conventional love & romance & whatever don't guarantee successful marriages. I adore that.

And it's funny because Vegebul is a pairing that also had little to no chemistry going into it, but unlike with Gochi, the no chemistry actually does hurt it for a couple of reasons (all of them revolving around how Vegeta was/is a terrible person) that I won't get into here because it'll derail this post and it's long enough already. I just wanted to point that out in text myself first, before other people came at me trying to argue it.

Anyway. TLDR Gochi as a ship defies amatonormative & allonormative concepts regarding intimate relationships. "You have to date / court someone first, fall in love with them, then marry them because marriage will make sense & be healthy then." They didn't do the first two parts, but after getting married, they're happy together. They spat in the face of societal norms & expectations.

#gochi #goku x chichi #dragon ball ships #( gochi ironically makes my nonpartnering aroace brain fire off on all cylinders )#( writing this post made me remember )#( on how the funimation dub made goku's confession to chi chi come off as way more romantic )#( than it actually was. in the jpn version; he's literally like ''ok wanna get married?'' and thats it )#( which is the correct depiction of it i feel. they didnt truly love each other going into marriage; so why frame it as if they did )#( but again. they clearly grew to care for one another deeply as time went on )#( what other ships have this kind of beginning; and they still work?? a scattered few; im sure )

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whatremained · 2 days ago

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aghhh. i was gonna respond earlier but i got tired. i’m still tired now but!!

you’re exactly right with the point that with the way connor’s autistic traits are written throughout the musical and book, they often get over looked. especially because it’s not the really common stereotype. not for men, nor for women. and a lot of connor’s traits are negative. top of my head, as im thinking of the scene i described previously… that IS a melt down. or! how connor is shown to be very impulsive. impulsivity is not commonly known as a symptom, and yet it still is.

both allistic and a handful of autistic people tend to ignore ugly and borderline harmful traits because it doesn’t make us look good… but the fact of the matter is that…? it’s a DISORDER (autism spectrum DISORDER). it’s not supposed to be all ‘i act a little shy and fixate on things’; we have a disorder, it’s not fun and games. and it sucks to see this ignored in characters who are very much autistic but don’t have the “nice looking” traits.

there is so… SO much i could write on about connor and the fact the fandom doesn’t seem to even take a glance at the fact that he could be autistic. because they believe autistic people are shy, nervous, and fixated on things. and while they can be that, autistic people can also be incredibly emotional, prone to anger for that reason, impulsive, etc.

i’m sick of the stereotype that… we as autistic people, are… shy and pure for some reason? and that we can’t be anything besides that??

and that’s a reason so many characters get shoved to the side because of the want for people to see autism not as what it is.

autism isn’t good. autism isn’t bad either. it’s just there, it’s a disorder.

i’m probably making the same points over but… who cares.

i feel like people find it harder to like. i don’t want to use the word infantilize, but that’s literally the correct word so… infantilize connor because he is shown as very pugnacious and somewhat truculent, and with that comes people viewing him as aggressive and assertive which aren’t traits many people take pity on.

this is also why i argue peopld attach onto the fake connor fandom wise, and in the show, because he’s shown to be willing, cooperative, and amiable… which is not who he was at the slightest.

people are able to infantilize connor, just not the actual character which… i am glad for but also? not because they miss the whole point of the show but that’s besides it.

and people baby evan like crazy and it pisses me off too. people act like evan… either did nothing wrong? or like…? idk it pisses me off when people try and characterize him as just a shy guy who’s would never do anything wrong in his life. random kind of too, but the characterization of evan being really short pisses me off because it adds to the infantilization. it’s?? like evan is canonically taller than connor (by book standard). why are we acting like he’s 4 foot tall? so we can infantilize him more? no thank you!

good lord. sorry about the rant!

it’s just that i’m talk about it because connor has always been a character that has stuck with me because i feel myself so represented by him. maybe it’s because of the autism, or maybe it’s because of the situation i’ve been in for awhile, but it might be the pattern of thinking he has which parallels mine (neurodivergent thinking huh). the way the book is written is immaculate in the way it writes from connor’s perspective, and it really highlights some (or at least mine lol) neurodivergent brains and how they process and view things.

aghhh again sorry. i like chatting about stuff i like

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ganondoodle · 2 months ago

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I fully understand the pain you feel with TLOZ now. I mean, I understood it before, but after Arcane becoming League's canon, after watching the second season, I feel so broken and conflicted and like I spent time loving something just for it to amount to nothing.

reliving my totk nightmares just a few months after finally being able to cope with that

#ganondoodles answers #ganondoodles talks #.... it might actually get even worse with arcane #similar how totks stupid book fucked it over EVEN MORE than the game itself #i made a post about it but the tweets in which the info was written were deleted and i dont have reddit so i saved it as a draft #if it does end up being true and more confirmed than a reddit post #if you want to know #someone (was it necrit?) did an interview with linke (one of the main guys of making arcane) and summarized some info #though some wasnt quite correct so thats probably why the op of the tweets deleted them #anyway- in those screenshots they said alot of shit #my favorites- heimer is alive and characters that died can come back to life (????)#'the arcane' is just another version of magic and the whole weird hexcore bs was just bc it was corrupted- hextech is still real #viktor will come back but he is “something special” (my cursed thought .. varrus retcon- its jayce and viktor now lol)#they indeed planned the last episode to change runeterra and also lead into MULTIPLE SHOWS ALREADY BEING WORKED ON #yep that raven was swain/his raven/raum #they are aiming higher thaN GAME OF THRONES UH OH #they are not done with piltover and zaun characters either- urgot will show up #and my favorite .... VANDERWICK IS ALIVE and STILL split between vander and beast (???literally how????) and he will end up with one #again i dont know if anythign of that will hold up but uuuuh even if half of all they wrote there is halftrue .... pls no #i swear if they fuck up aatrox and mordekaiser im might just stop believing in anything ever again and lock myself in a box

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backpackingspace · 2 months ago

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Okay but consider post Canon over protective Athena who is sick to death of her most devout being raped.

Athena sticking close to the whole family and promising penelope that she'll keep a close eye on odysseus the first time he has to go into the market and penelope can't go with him. (She was going to go anyway. She's never actually going to let any of them out of her sight ever again. And it's an easy promise to her dearest weaver who seems so distressed to have odysseus leaving her side.)

Athena fully manifesting in the market when someone grabs odysseus with godly flashes of snakes and owls and the drums of war to scream /release him/ (odysseus is feeling indulgent for both his patron and his wife it's so cute that they're this worried it's not like he couldn't defend himself just fine. Especially from whatever poor fuck just grabbed him who definitely doesn't deserve a goddess screaming in his face. Hes trying so hard not to laugh if he did athena would send him flying.)

Athena telling all the other gods that yes she knows odysseus is the favorite barbie doll she choose him well after all and to back the fuck off if any of them bother him again they will have made an enemy of her.

Athena disguising odysseus only as an old beggar from here on out instead of an irresistibly tall and handsome man. Because she saw how uncomfortable nausicaa's attention made him.

#The odyssey #Odysseus #Athena #Penelope #Nausicaa #Tw: rape #Tw:rape recovery #Tw: Calypso keeping odysseus as a sex slave for seven years #Tw: forced prostitution #See what happened with circe #I know in ancient Greek stories there's a lot of serial violence in various shapes and forms #But it seems like it happens more to athenas choosen/priestess/most devot #And it feels a little bit more targeted beyond it being a horrific violation #Like it's targeted towards Athena for her choice on being chaste #Which just adds another layer of fucked upness #And I've always felt like this contributes to Athena being cold #And at some point I imagine she'd get sick of it and course correct into overprotectivness from being cold #Headcanon that penelope goes a little bit insane when odysseus gets back (you're never allowed to leave my sight ever again )#(Don't worry it's mutual odysseus is into it he also never wants to leave his wife's side ever again)#Athena: standing protectively over odysseus in full god mood and hissing #Odysseus: not that this isn't an amazing ego boost but (and I can't believe you're making me be the voice of reason ) arent you overreactin #Odysseus: I mean you were never this protective when I was an actual literal child #Odysseus: or when I was fighting in an actual literally war fighting against gods and demi gods #Athena slightly embarrassed but is not sorry she sent whoever grabbed odysseus flying : SHUT UP #Love the fact that this whole group has the time and the support of each other to actually try to heal from their many many traumas #I know I did this in a slightly joking way but healing from abuse of power and violations are so important to me #Stories about healing in general #That's my jam #Anyway not tagging this as epic because of 1. Athena and odysseus's friendship break up #And 2. The change to circes story (which i actually like a lot! But still the odyssey Canon circe was also a sa situation.)

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lord-squiggletits · 1 year ago

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On the MegOP fandom trend of saying "Optimus should apologize to Megatron"

(Speaking specifically for IDW1, though it applies to a lot of MegOP especially ones that do continuity soup with heavy reference to IDW1)

I was talking to a friend in DMs and they mentioned a common headcanon/fanfic trope that I also concurred with, and both of us said it's something that bothers us: a common take in the MegOP fandom goes basically along the lines of "If Optimus had just apologized to Megatron, the war would've ended" (or other variants including "if he'd tried harder to understand Megatron/work in collaboration with him").

And firstly, this is incorrect for a number of reasons:

There were attempts at peace negotiations during the war, but they fell through. So Optimus WAS trying to work with Megatron to the point of participating in formal diplomatic meetings.

Optimus tried multiple times on page to convince Megatron to just stop fighting and work with him for peace (Autocracy, Chaos Theory) that Megatron rejected. Given that these on-page examples take place at the start of the war and at the end of the war respectively, it makes sense that Optimus asking Megatron for collaboration is something he was trying/willing to do the entire time. So again, Optimus was always willing AND ATTEMPTING to work with Megatron and find a joint solution

Even before the war when Optimus was still Orion, he was very explicitly inspired by Megatron's writing and names Megatron as one of the people who "opened his eyes" to the wrongs of Cybertronian society. So how is it that people claim "the war went on for too long because Optimus never tried to understand Megatron" when OP literally named Megatron as one of his biggest idols, thus implying that OP does understand Megatron's ideals

But the primary purpose of this post wasn't to defend Optimus, actually. Even though I personally think Optimus did plenty (dare I say, everything) to try to end the war, there are some who may still think otherwise, so instead of arguing about whether Optimus did "enough", or who should apologize to whom, or who "deserves the blame" for starting/continuing the war, I'd actually rather talk about this:

No matter who is most "to blame" for the war, it's my firm belief that neither Megatron nor Optimus would even expect/demand the other to apologize to them at all.

On Megatron's side, he would never seek to judge Optimus negatively for the decisions to the point of saying "you wronged me, apologize." Whether it's evil Megatron who doesn't care about atrocities and revels in an opportunity to expose Optimus as a hypocrite, or post-war/Autobot Megatron who knows that his own evil actions are irredeemable, the idea of Megatron judging Optimus and demanding an apology for the war specifically strikes me as out-of-character. Why would Megatron demand or even want an apology from Optimus when Megatron knows fully well that he has his own sins to bear, he prolonged the war for his own selfish/material gain, and that he is responsible for an untold amount of suffering? Demanding an apology would imply that Megatron sees himself as the wronged party and Optimus as the wrongdoer, but by the end of the war, Megatron is too aware of his own part in the war to ever demand such a thing of Optimus. Even if he DID think that Optimus was "equally to blame" for the war (which he doesn't/wouldn't, btw), Megatron's own feelings of guilt would prevent him from trying to seek the petty satisfaction of the moral high ground or making Optimus beg for his forgiveness.

Additionally, Megatron knows Optimus very well as a person: he knows that the position of leadership is full of "loneliness [and] agonizing self-doubt" for Optimus (Chaos Theory) and that "when Optimus hurts others, he hurts himself" (MTMTE). Another reason that Megatron wouldn't demand nor want an apology from Optimus is because Megatron knows Optimus so well that he already knows that being a war leader fills Optimus with immense guilt and suffering. Given that Megatron knows about Optimus' self-doubt and guilt, why would he even need an apology when he already knows how much Optimus regrets the war and desperately wishes/wished for it to end?

Then, as established in the previous paragraphs, Optimus is too full of guilt for his part in the war (both before it started and in being unable to stop it sooner) to demand an apology from Megatron. Again, demanding an apology would put Optimus in an implied position of moral superiority and/or victimhood, but Optimus doesn't see himself as morally superior or as a victim (or rather, he sees himself as being responsible for these bad things happening and internalizes this as a duty to do better/fix wrongdoings). In other words, Megatron and Optimus both share this view of themselves and each other: Their hands are so dirty, and they both feel such guilt over this, and they know each other well enough to know that the other feels this way as well. Because both of them feel blame for the war and are acutely aware of their own flaws/part in suffering, both of them feel far too responsible for the war happening for them to ever blame their archnemesis for "not trying harder" or "being responsible for the war."

Hell, if you even look at the socio-political climate of Cybertron before the war started, neither Megatron nor Optimus were the ones who put this conflict into motion. The corrupt legacy of the Primes, Functionism, class issues-- all of these things existed before Megatron and Optimus did. Even once they started doing things like writing about social issues (M) or fighting against the Senate (OP), both of them were "underlings" in sense that they weren't leaders:

Megatron's writings may have inspired the Decepticon movement, but that movement existed as an independent entity with its own leaders and speakers long before Megatron became the "official" ruler of the Decepticons. He wasn't even the leader of the 'Cons until he took control of the gladiator arena and the nonviolent sections of the Decepticons were (presumably) subsumed into the underground, exploitative battle culture that Megatron created.

Optimus-as-Orion was a police officer to start, but even once he started going against the Senate, he mainly worked in collaboration with others like Senator Shockwave and Zeta (later Zeta Prime), who he either saw as his idols or who were literally superior to him in rank due to government/military structures.

So with this in mind, even from a social level, while Megatron and Optimus may have been "catalysts" of a sort that caused the war to escalate to an outright planetary/galactic level, the scenario is too complex to solely lay the blame for the war at either of their feet. I'm not confident in saying that Megatron/Optimus would explicitly think of this when talking to each other, but what I'm trying to say is that M/OP were just catalysts in a long chain of brewing tension that exploded into a war. Even if one could claim that one of them "started" or "escalated" the war, the social issues that caused the war and the positions of power that allowed them to become leaders in the first place were falling into place before either of them actually BECAME leaders.

In other words, this shared fate of being the final reaction that exploded a societal conflict into outright war... Megatron and Optimus both have that in common. And because of this, I really don't think either of them would even think to ask the other to apologize because they're both in such similar positions, with such similar feelings of guilt and responsibility, that they understand each other's feelings without words. To demand an apology would be akin to taking that shared vulnerability/guilt and stepping on it, attempting to claim that one is right/superior and the other is wrong/inferior, and that the inferior one needs to grovel and take responsibility for the bad things that happened.

#squiggposting #idw megop #idk if this'll get me hate or not but it's something i think about a lot #and verbalizing it to that friend in DMs helped me put into words why that common fanon take bothers me #also. hot take but if any 'apologies' are necessary then it's M who should be apologizing to OP #the war may be both of their faults but M is the one who explicitly did/said things just to hurt OP and break his spirit #i'm tired of ppl who don't understand (or at least don't discuss) how hurt OP is and how he deserves recogniztion of his feelings too #megop #then again this fanon take may just be a consequence of continuity soup culture #where ppl don't have to acknowledge specific things that M or OP did bc they can just selectively include or not include details from canon #so like. i guess in their continuity soup continuties their fanon is technically correct #but in terms of the source material which is the one shared experience we all have and the common language we derive fanon from #this fanon is very incorrect. or at least i hope i've managed to argue that it's incorrect #anyways the thesis of megop is that they're equals and opposites who are inextricably tied to each other #fanon that tries to place the blame on one or castigate one of them is missing the point of megop #the point is that they're equal. equally strong and charismatic and amazing. and equally culpable #even if they're not literally equally responsible for idw megop at least they at least both FEEL responsible #and i don't think idw megops are the type to mince words about who's 'more responsible'#they're both depressed old men who hate themselves and regret basically their whole lives. why would they judge each other like that

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space929 · 2 days ago

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So this ask is genuinely unreadable so forgive me if I struggle with the following translation. I will mention here that, while I can go looking for sources on a lot of what I'm about to say, that would take a lot of time and effort that my dyslexic ass does not want to do. Feel free to look it up yourself. I'm already taking more time than I need to with this. Sorry about that. Hope it's all good that I did this.

TW: politics, gun violence (including schools), and I'm sure you can tell the rest from the above ask.

First off, I am an American citizen, so you, gloomwalkers, can't claim that I don't know because I'm not from the US. I learned the way you did, I just took it upon myself to listen to someone other than right-wingers who have everything to gain from my ignorance and stupidity.

Point one: I believe you're trying to say that Elon did not do the Sieg Heil? And also that our previous leaders have done the same - which was not a Sieg Heil but was worse than what Elon did because it makes you look better. I must say that I have no idea as to the context of the other photos (I guess you only wanted to provide Elon's?) And I would go searching for it but I do not know where to start with that and I don't feel like it so we're going to leave those accusations untouched as I am not doing my proper research.

The second one, however, we are going to talk about. Elon, at the very least, did an act that looked close to a Sieg Heil and then attempted to scrub it from the internet, not address it directly, and agree with multiple posts about how we should not be labeling people as Nazis, while having supported things that have been labeled akin to Nazism for years.

So I'm sure we can make a guess here. Not to mention that your context literally supports the claim you're arguing against. I suppose I should thank you for that. Makes my life easier.

And just to mention the "But he has autism" claims - so do I. And y'know what I do when my autism creates a situation in which I accidentally respond in a very bigoted manner? I apologize. I acknowledge my mistake and carry that around with me so I don't make it again. I do not go online and get mad about the fact that people are calling me out on my bullshit. I understand that all autistic people are different, but we are not incapable of learning or self-reflection and implying that we are is infantilizing and ableist.

Point two: do you... do you think that's a good thing? Do you think it's good that we allow hatred that will very likely end in violence fester and grow until it seeps into our laws and comes out as the situation we're dealing with now? Are you kidding me? Hate speech kills people. You realize that, right? You're good with that? Okay.

But onto our proof otherwise. A lot of people have been jailed for words. I know this is an old one, but the Sedition Act of 1918 literally made it so you could be jailed for up to twenty years for so much as denouncing a war. Also, for a more recent example, Briana Boston is currently jailed for telling a healthcare company "Delay, Deny, Depose, you people are next." Despite there being no proof that she would've done anything.

There are others, however I can't remember them and don't feel like research as I mentioned earlier so. Sorry.

Point three: did you like... get worse? With the grammar? Are you good? Do you need a doctor? That was genuinely concerning to read. Anyway, I guess I'll stop being condescending and respond. I'm trans. Hi! It's nice to meet you. That means that I Know Things. For example, I know that I have never been pressured to be trans. I have, however, been pressured to be cis. Do you care as much about that? I've had teachers ignore my pronouns - I'd say that is pushing an agenda. I've had a teacher tell me - to my face - that I should not be allowed in bathroom or sports - is that not pushing an agenda? Do you care about those?

The only agenda people using my correct pronouns are pushing is something called basic human respect and decency. It's a wonderful concept that you should look into. One of my favorites.

You would be correct. I can't force people to use my correct name or pronouns. It's not practical. But I believe that you're missing the part where this isn't a disliked nickname - something that is harmful and if you think that disregarding someone's wishes isn't a bad thing then, once again, are you good? Because this is concerning. Have you heard of empathy? I urge you to look into the basic human respect and decency I mentioned earlier. But more than that, this is that other concept that you don't believe in. Hate speech. That thing that literally kills people.

"[N]ext part of this is [you] wanting tax payers to fund trans medical issues that are not life threatening[. That] is not our way[,] not because they [are] trans but because they have no right to my money."

So we shouldn't pay for yearly check ups. Or X-rays, if we aren't positive the person will die without it. Also ear infections and appointments from them - that probably won't kill anyone. Dentistry. No one needs mental health help - yeah, my res stay was life-saving but we can't be sure that's the case with everyone and we need to run it by you, specifically, before we can be. Obviously those surgeries that greatly increase quality of life are useless. Our tax money is not to help the American people! Obviously. (/S, if it wasn't clear.)

"[A]lso th[re's] proof [that] this has been forced on kids ie people under 18 which is[,] in fact[,] grounds to remove and sue a teacher for forcing their views on kids at school."

So... I notice that you didn't source this? I actually did look this up (not in great length, I will admit) and I found two of ten articles discussing this point. One of them was from the POV of a mother, and the other was from known transphobic site Transgender Trend from the POV of a fourteen year old. This supports everything that I have both heard and experienced during my time at ten different schools. Four of them being on the west coast, tyvm. This also lines up with what my friends from different schools in different areas have experienced.

I'm trans because I'm trans, not because my teacher forced me to shave my head and do man things. In fact, I was a very feminine child. And yet... I'm still trans. Interesting.

I'm also confused as to the 180. I thought, at the beginning, you were talking about medical procedures - something that is almost exclusively done when it is abundantly clear that it will vastly improve quality of life for the minor. And if we're talking about that, then we must talk about how some people have joint surgeries or brain surgeries "forced on them" so we should definitely ban the use in children for those. Some children get their ears pierced without their permission! We need to stop this madness!

Or maybe you only care about trans people. Maybe you're just transphobic. Would you care to admit to that? It would make this conversation much shorter.

Point four:

"[Y]ou clearly listen to USA media[. W,]ell d[id] you know that ABC[,] NBC, CNN[, and] MSNBC all paid out 100s of millions of dollars in just 3 lawsuits for openly [lying] about the story and people in it. ABC even had pay Trump 15 million for a lie they told about Trump. [S]o frankly trusting them is not really an option[. E]ven [] liberals have had to admit they [were] wrong[.]"

I didn't even have to quote this one. I just needed to rewrite it because I physically could not understand it without doing so. I don't like to judge or shame people for literacy, it does nothing but make people feel bad, and this is genuinely painful. There are free grammar checkers online. The grammar makes this feel like a troll.

Anyway, you realize that there are more news sites than these? Again, I don't know anything about this besides that the lawsuits existed at some point. I do, however, know that Fox News has had lawsuits of the same caliber.

On a different note, allow me to just put this right here (https://app.adfontesmedia.com/chart/interactive - imbed wasn't working) for all your validity and bias checking needs.

Point five: Are we being legit right now? My right to my body without having to go through a legislature is a right. My right to my body without having to go through you is a right. My right to my body not being used as a political ploy is a right. And before you say shit about religion: I'm not religious. Keep religion off of my body when I am not religious. Okay? I have a right to religious freedom and taking away my rights based on someone else's religion isn't religious freedom.

And for your gun control point: Please, I beg you, set foot in a school the day after a child brought a firearm in his backpack. Set foot in a school the day after a child has been murdered. Set foot in a school and know that that could be you. That's not even mentioning mass murders by firearm or murders by firearm or the amount of children who accidentally shoot themselves or others because people can't be bothered to lock up their firearms.

When I was in in-person school, I had at least one threat to my school each year from first grade onwards. I had teachers stand at the front of my class and tell us their plan for if someone broke in. I had them tell us to shove books in our backpacks to protect ourselves if it ever happened.

I had a person literally come to school with a firearm in his bag.

Please. Tell me why we need more of these. Tell me why you won't listen to the easiest solution to our biggest problem. Tell me why I had to go to school, scared out of my mind, day after day, because you wanted your rights so badly while denying us ours'.

It is my right to go to school and come home in the afternoon. If your right to owning a literal death machine is invaded because of that, then maybe you shouldn't have had it in the first place.

This is proven to work. This would work. And yet you people act like it would never work and so you just send us your thoughts and prayers while we get to sit in our schools and wonder if we won't come home that night because we all know that fence and those locks won't protect us.

You were nothing but disrespectful that entire ask. I am not OP and I cannot speak on that part of it, but I can say that I understand your takes. The picture really showed where they come from.

You think that you are the center of the universe. Everyone outside of Texas doesn't need to be acknowledged or known or respected.

Your love of the country does not negate the hate you just spewed. You say no hate and yet you sent this. You read this. You think this. You say no hate and yet you just spoke against so many people.

No hate doesn't dispute this. You realize that, right? You can't say no offense and have something not be offensive.

I hope this helped you understand the points. No hate.

Thank you for your time.

Howdy, let me start off with no hate for you just here trying to help clear up a few things it seems from your post you dont know which is normal since you no a US citizen. again just trying to help you understand not an attack just trying help. 1 on the whole nazi wave https://www.tumblr.com/busterballsblog/773398848248987648?source=share also post is not the full clip here https://youtu.be/5e5Dz2EvuOY?si=NPvB0sq5Qjk2NHDK these should help you better see the whole story and facts. 2 UK, CA, GR,FR all have hate speech as a legal thing in the USA its already been ruled by highest court and even liberal judges agreed no such thing as hate speech in this USA. where each of the nations i listed have jailed people based on their words some where even jokes on stage. but in USA we have the right to say anything but a DIRECT call to action. but just as we each have the right of free speech means all sides have a voice to say as they wish. something that very different our rights listed out in black and white cant be taken away by government for any reason where yours and UK, FR and GR can and have been in name of "Greater Good". in USA its about the 1 not the Greater Good when it comes to rights. 3 on whole trans topic here the the issue its illegal to force someone to talk a set way in the usa. just as your name is Erica you cant force people to call you that they can say HEY YOU or they can call you E all they want and no law is broken in the USA. next part of this is wanting tax payers to fund trans medical issues that are not life threatening is not our way not because they trans but because they have no right to my money. also their proof this has been forced on kids ie people under 18 which is in fact grounds to remove and sue a teacher for forcing their views on kids at school. 4 you clearly listen to USA media well do you know that ABC , NBC, CNN , MSNBC all paid out 100s of millions of dollars in just 3 lawsuits for openly lied about the story and people in it. ABC even had pay Trump 15 million for a lie they told about Trump. so frankly trusting them is not really an option even for liberals have had to admit they wrong. 5 you bring up removing of rights https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/bill-of-rights-transcript please take a look at our rights and can you link abortions to any right you see listed. ( i am assuming this is right you talking about due to your words. mind you while your looking at our rights look at 2A and then notice how liberals seek to remove rights on guns. i use this as example of how the very view that the right seeks to take away rights is not based in any logic and in fact the left is seeking to remove a right openly. again i hope this helps you understand our system in a fair and balanced way. btw i been from quebec to toronto i will say being that im Texan i understand qubec people the best in CA i have a number of pals up their and yea. to give you idea why people like me love your snow is my city just got 3 inches of snow that all the snow we gotten since 2018 and my summers are 110 F or in the 40s C in the shade with 100% humidity. anyway hope this helps you understand better again no hate just trying to help and i will leave you with how Texans see the rest of north America LOL hope you enjoy the fun joke again no hate just trying help you smile. and if you have any question here or DM me is fine just trying share some help.

^^ I give you, the American education system

Look, I disagree with everything you are saying.

If you want to talk about taking rights away, I'll give you this. A lot of pregnant women have died recently because the hospitals are not able to perform abortions. Today, there was a school shooting in Nashville that killed a 17 year old and injured another. If abortions were legal, and you have gun laws in place that weren't written in the 17th century, many people would still be alive. This isn't opinion, this is fact.

Deaths in Canada caused by guns in 2023: less than 300

Deaths in USA caused by guns in 2023: over 43,000

There's honestly too much wrong with your entire message. I don't think I'm the right person to respond so I will leave it to everyone else.

Also, just so you are aware, your "map" did not make me laugh. It offends me. Canada is my home and I would much rather live here (with free healthcare, gun laws that weren't written over 200 years ago, the right for me to make a decision on my own body, and a place where my transgender friends are free to be who they are) than live in fucking texas.

#this is exhausting #politics #idek

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