#which people with psychopathy can love and it can also look like npd

[khizmet]

I will preface this by saying, I respect anyone's opinion that they have on a fictional character (duh)

But can I just say?? I hate the Hannibal has autism theory so baaaaaad

Like, first and foremost, fuck the DSM. None of us can fit perfectly into any categories that's not how people work anyway. (That being said, it is written and based off studies of white men, so it may hold some significance here.)

Second, I beg you to look up or watch content from people diagnosed with psychopathy or ASPD. A lot of the traits and repetitive behaviors and hyperfixations that people point out are also symptoms of psychopathy.

Like, a lot of the things Hannibal does also align very heavily with OCD. But there are comorbidities and overlap of symptoms, etc.

(None of what I'm saying really matters or holds any water idek why the autism theory bugs me; probably bc I have OCD and am v sensitive to ppl claiming they have it bc they're "neat" or had an intrusive thought of throwing their phone across the room.)

LMAO maybe I talked myself all the way around to not actually hating the theory

[rickyriddle]

AnR: a study of psychopathy and antisocial personality disorder

Hey there! So here’s another analysis, not about a specific character, but AnR characters that would fit the psychopath/sociopath/antisocial personality disorder/conduct disorder. Those who are familiar with my other analysis would probably guess that I’ll be talking about Otoya. But I also referred to Nio and Hitsugi as sociopaths in previous analysis. I want to correct certain things I may have said that was incorrect as well as used more recent discovery I made about those disorders. I also want to include another character I didn’t really talk about regarding psychopathy/ASPD: Yuri Meichi. Without further ado, let’s take a look at those four characters and if weather or not they fit the diagnosis.

First I’ll explain the different distinction between the different conditions based on my understanding of those:

Primary Psychopathy: Most commonly referred as psychopathy. When specialists talk about psychopaths, most of the time they mean those who have primary psychopathy. Primary psychopathy is innate, meaning that primary psychopaths are born that way. Primary psychopathy is characterized by callousness, shallow affect, manipulation, and superficial charm. Not all primary psychopaths have antisocial personality disorder. They all have certain narcissistic traits (such as grandiose) but again, not all primary psychopaths could be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder either. Primary psychopaths have a defecting empathy, meaning that they can’t and will never feel empathy. They are usually viewed as high-functioning.

Secondary psychopathy: Usually referred to as sociopathy, even tho the term sociopath is outdated. Secondary psychopaths are made, they have been mold that way by their environment and possible trauma. Secondary psychopathy is associated with impulsivity and lack of long-term goals, and is related to hostile behaviors. Unlike primary psychopaths, secondary psychopaths are often emotionally unstable and can experience guilt and empathy. Their empathy isn’t defective but instead dysfunctional. All secondary psychopaths meet the criteria for antisocial personality disorder and they are more likely to also have borderline personality disorder. They are also more likely to be low-functioning.

Antisocial Personality Disorder: Also often used as a synonyme of sociopathy. The criteria are failure to obey laws and norms, lying, deception, and manipulation for profit or self-amusement, impulsive behavior, irritability and aggression, blatantly disregards the safety of self and others, a pattern of irresponsibility and lack of remorse. The person needs to be at least 18, have conduct behavior before 15 and the antisocial behaviors aren’t related to schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. People with ASPD can feel empathy and love towards those they bond with and their level of functioning depends of their IQ, education and environment.

Conduct Disorder: Considered the precursor of ASPD. Conduct disorder is characterized by antisocial behaviors in children and teenagers. The causes can be diverse, such as genetic, environment or even a low IQ. The signs of conduct disorder are bullying, aggressiveness, use of weapons, cruelty (towards humans or animals), stealing, forced sexual activities, vandalism, deceptiveness and serious rule violation. Whether those issues are treated or not can determine if those antisocial behaviors will continue in adulthood (and become ASPD) or not.

In this analysis, I’ll refer to primary psychopathy as PP, secondary psychopathy as SP, antisocial personality disorder as ASPD, conduct disorder as CD and narcissistic personality disorder as NPD.

In two of my recent posts I mentioned something Minakata said in KnR Room 4: “Recognizing that Otoya is an intrinsic psychopath and that Hitsugi is an acquired psychopath due to the environment and breeding.”

To me, there was no doubt that Otoya is a psychopath (PP). Minakata confirmed that Otoya is born that way therefore, she’s a primary psychopath. Then for Hitsugi, in her analysis I interpret the acquired psychopath as secondary psychopathy. And when I made the analysis, I thought that SP = ASPD and refer to Hitsugi as a sociopath, but given what I learned recently it might have been incorrect.

So, Minakata wrote psychopath “サイコパス” (saikopasu), which is based on the English word, therefore an anglicism. It sounds more like the pop-culture term instead of the medical term, which is 精神病質 (seishinbyō-shitsu). Therefore, I can be 100% that Minakata used the term psychopath in the medical sense and instead may just be a catch-all term for PP/PS/ASPD/CD. So, “acquired psychopath” doesn’t necessarily mean “secondary psychopath” but rather that Hitsugi acquire traits that are often associated with the whole psychopathy/ASPD spectrum. But, I firmly believe that “intrinsic psychopath” means “primary psychopath” since it’s the only condition among the spectrum who is innate.

So now that I correct that, let’s analyse the said characters and see if they fit any of those diagnosis.

Otoya, Hitsugi and Nio would all technically fit the CD diagnosis. They tend to be bullies, aggressive, use weapons (granted they are assassins but still), cruel, forced sexual activities (for Otoya, may or may not be applicable to Hitsugi), they are extremely deceptive and do violate rules. All of those behaviors are way more serious than a regular teenager rebellion and does harm others. But, even if they could all be diagnosed with CD (given that they are all underage) those three are all different and will probably have different diagnosis as they grow older. So let’s analyse them separately.

I’ll start with the easiest, Otoya. As I said, we know Otoya is born that way, therefore a PP. But just to be sure, let check if she does fit the criteria:

Callousness: I think it’s pretty obvious that Otoya has no sympathy or empathy for anyone and a total disregard for others. She’s insensitive and has no issues with abusing, torturing and killing people.

Shallow affect: This one mean shallow emotions. It doesn’t mean a lack of emotions, just that the emotional responses are low. I’m gonna base it on the manga version and say that despite Otoya’s cheerful attitude, she’s pretty emotionally shallow. Her cheerfulness is just an act. We can see after she failed and during KnR 5 that she’s actually quite cold.

Manipulation: Manipulation is basically Otoya’s middle name. All she does in the series is deceive, lie and manipulate to achieve her goals and simply for her personal pleasure. It’s as natural as breathing to her.

Superficial charm: I’d say Otoya is rather charismatic, she can easily charm people and gain their trust, but we know it’s not sincere. She’s smooth, engaging, charming, slick and voluble.

Otoya also have a defective empathy. You can’t possibly have empathy and commit all the atrocities she did, and she also show no remorse for her actions. She’s incapable of feeling those emotions. PP are born with a thinner amygdala, which is responsible for empathy, stress and fear. Her brain is incapable to feel empathy and remorse and never will.

But, Otoya’s actions show that she might not only be a PP. Otoya is a sadist who feel sexual pleasure from torturing and killing women. I don’t think we will argue if I say that she probably have sadistic personality disorder and sexual sadism disorder, as well as erotophonophilia (paraphilia of sexual arousal and gratification from the death of a human being, also known as lust murder). Those are not always linked to PP. In fact, unlike what people think, PP are rarely killers or even sadist, most of them are high-functioning and have normal jobs and aren’t committing any crimes. But, it’s true that most serial killers were either psychopaths or have ASPD, or both.

As I said earlier, Otoya would probably be diagnosed with CD. CD isn’t necessary to be a PP but it is for the ASPD diagnosis, meaning that in addition of being a PP, Otoya also have ASPD (well, technically she’s 16 so she couldn’t be officially diagnosis, but it’s safe to assume her behaviors won’t change at this point). At the very least, we can say that Otoya is antisocial, and PP and ASPD are often comorbid. Let’s see if she fits the criteria of ASPD:

Failure to obey laws and norms: I mean… she’s a goddamn serial killer who kills for sexual pleasure. 

Lying, deception, and manipulation for profit or self-amusement: This is a trait that overlap with PP. I already explained her manipulative nature.

Impulsive behavior: This one may seems to contradict the shallow emotions. Impulsive means making reckless decision or spontaneous decision. It means that if she has a sudden desire, she may not resist it. Impulsive isn’t a synonym of hot-headed (being easily or constantly mad). You can have low emotions and still be impulsive. So yes, Otoya is rather impulsive, she tends to make decision on a whim without thinking of consequences. 

Irritability and aggression: Again, even if someone is emotionally shallow doesn’t mean they have zero emotions. With the right trigger, even someone cold can get irritated and aggressive. In Otoya’s case, she can be quite aggressive if someone interrupt her when she’s having “fun” (aka torturing and killing) as we saw when Tokaku saved Haru from her.

Blatantly disregards the safety of self and others: In the manga Otoya was getting her ass kicked by Tokaku yet she continued to laugh and enjoy herself despite her injuries. The girl doesn’t care about her own safety and given her occupation, she doesn’t care about others’ safety either.

A pattern of irresponsibility: Otoya went overboard with killing and ended up attractive the attention of a detective, reason why she joined Class Black. Instead of recognizing that what she’s doing is wrong, she blames the detective for ruining her fun and literally want a serial killer insurance so she’ll never have to get into trouble for killing. I think it’s a form of irresponsibility, instead of fixing her behaviors or at least be more careful, she prefers to just have someone to clean up her mess forever. 

Lack of remorse: Another trait that overlap with PP. I don’t think I need to explain this one again.

So in conclusion, Otoya is born a psychopath, but acquired antisocial behaviours due to her environment as well as sadism. Her natural lack of empathy probably make those easier to acquire. Otoya will never genuinely change as a person, she may change her behaviour to get what she wants but she will always the same. Right now, she would be diagnosed with PP and CD, but it makes no doubt that when she’ll be 18 she would be diagnosed with ASPD. So my final diagnosis: Antisocial Primary Psychopath.

Then, we have Hitsugi. So let’s throw the PP out of the possibility since we know she isn’t born that way and was mold by her environment. I would also discard SP given that Hitsugi seems pretty high-functioning as a person. SP tend to be anxious, fearful, hostile and emotionally unstable and it doesn’t seem to be the case with Hitsugi. On the contrary, Hitsugi said that she doesn’t feel much, showing that she does have shallow emotions (not a lack of emotions, mind you). As I said earlier, Hitsugi would most likely be diagnosed with CD. Hitsugi has no problem with hurting and killing people if it suits her or even just for curiosity and she didn’t feel any remorse for that. She’s deceptive, manipulative and a pathological liar. Regarding the forced sexual activities I mentioned earlier, I’m not saying that Hitsugi is a rapist or a sexual predator like Otoya seems to be. I meant it in a way that Hitsugi seems somewhat forceful and assertive when it comes to intimacy, kissing Chitaru even if the latter may not fully consent or be comfortable with it (I’m mainly referencing their second kiss after Chitaru learned the truth and was distressed, it was, in my opinion, inappropriate for Hitsugi to kiss her and seemed like she was taking advantage of Chitaru’s vulnerability).

It’s true, however, that Hitsugi loves and feel regrets for hurting Chitaru, but that’s because she bond with her. Hitsugi doesn’t feel remorse for any other people than Chitaru. Also, it’s true that Hitsugi shows signs of low-self esteem, which is not mutually exclusive with CD. In fact, from what I read, it’s common. I suppose that those with CD who grow up to have ASPD eventually lose their low self-esteem, but Hitsugi is still young.

We don’t know exactly Hitsugi’s past but we can assume that she was brought into the assassination business at a young age and that she eventually lost her capacity to have empathy and started to feel empty. But, thanks to Chitaru, in a way, Hitsugi was able to reconnect with her lost feelings and there may be some hope for her to outgrow her CD and not develop ASPD. But, if Hitsugi never met Chitaru or met her as an adult, there’s no doubt in my mind that she would have ASPD (but not be a SP).

So in conclusion, Hitsugi isn’t born like that, she was mold by her environment, and she does exhibit a lot of antisocial behaviours. So my final diagnosis: Conduct Disorder with chances of antisocial tendencies in adulthood.

Now let’s analyse Nio. In my analysis of her I did say she may have ASPD, but I clarified that given her age she would rather be diagnosed with CD. Nio is unlikely to have PP given that she’s capable of bonding and feeling genuine love. So, when she’ll be 18, would she still be more likely to have regular ASPD or SP?

First, let’s see if she does fit the ASPD criteria:

 Failure to obey laws and norms: Even if Nio is following Yuri’s orders, she doesn’t seem to be someone who follow rules in general or the law. She doesn’t listen to her teacher and did broke the Clack Rules (she tried to kill Haru without sending a notice). I don’t have much example for this one.

Lying, deception, and manipulation for profit or self-amusement: Nio’s whole character is about deception. She acts all cheerful, enthusiastic and friendly while truly she doesn’t care about others, she even said she hate them, and enjoy seeing them fail and suffer. She did lied several time and manipulated Haru, all of this mainly for profit or just for fun.

Impulsive behavior: I wouldn’t say Nio is particularly impulsive nor do I really have example, except maybe her decision to kill Haru.

Irritability and aggression: Even if Nio acts friendly, she clearly stated hating all her classmates and got pretty angry with Haru at the end, probably because she was tired of pretending.

Blatantly disregards the safety of self and others: Nio did choose to fight Tokaku one on one even tho Tokaku is a much better fighter. Nio is ready to take risks. She doesn’t care about others’ safety as she gladly accepted to let Haruki try to commit suicide to win (with a huge grin on her face). 

A pattern of irresponsibility: Not much instance in the series except in her flashbacks where we see she was a really undisciplined child. We can assume that even if she used to be irresponsible, with Yuri’s strict education it wouldn’t weird if Nio lost this trait over time.

Lack of remorse: Nio never showed genuine sympathy or empathy towards anyone (except Yuri) and doesn’t seem to have any remorse for any of her actions.

She fits most of them but not perfectly. But as I said, ASPD can only be diagnosed as an adult and Nio is only 15. So it’s possible that she might not have developed fully all the ASPD traits. To me, given that she’ll remain with Yuri, who basically abused her as a kid and groomed her, it’s unlikely that she will change. She’ll most likely have ASPD in adulthood. And, given that her relationship with Yuri is unhealthy, there’s a chance that she might end up more emotionally unstable. Abusive relationship on long-term have terrible effect on one psyche. So to me, Nio eventually turning to a secondary psychopath would be a high possibility.

The differences between Nio and Hitsugi regarding their respective relationship is that even if ChitaHitsu is also toxic, the abusive one is Hitsugi, not her partner. So there’s a chance that thanks to Chitaru’s influence she might change and outgrow her CD. Nio on the other end is the victim, Yuri being the abusive one. If Nio grows while still being affected by Yuri’s abuse she’s unlikely to get better.

In conclusion, Nio currently has CD and will most likely have ASPD as an adult as well as SP. She’s not born that way and was mold by her environment and Yuri’s abuse. My final diagnosis: Conduct Disorder with future Antisocial Personality Disorder and possible Secondary Psychopathy.

And now, last but not least, Yuri Meichi. Now you might remember that in my last psychopaths/sociopaths anime characters list I said that Yuri was either a psychopath or a high-functioning sociopath. Well, let’s break it down.

Yuri being an adult I won’t mention CD for her. So let see if she’s born that way or mold by comparing PP and SP criterial.  Callousness? Yuri doesn’t seem to care about anyone and is pretty insensitive to others pain. Shallow affect? Well, Yuri is pretty emotionally shallow. She barely show any emotion except what appears to be mild-interest. Throughout the entire series she almost only smile calmly, even while beating up a kid. She’s a calm and cold person. Manipulation? There isn’t much instances that show if Yuri is manipulative, but we did see that she manipulate Nio as a kid and basically groomed her. Superficial charm? Yuri is quite charismatic. She can be smooth, engaging, charming, slick and voluble and we know it isn’t sincere.

What about the SP traits? Impulsivity and lack of long-term goals? Yuri pretty much succeeded in life and is one of the most powerful person in the world who is always calm and rational. Hostile behaviors? Yuri can be intimidating as a person, but she isn’t acting in a hostile and aggressive way.

So it doesn’t seem that Yuri have SP and is more likely to have PP, therefore be born that way. But could she also have ASPD? Let’s see.

 Failure to obey laws and norms: Yuri makes me think she’s lawful evil. She makes the law.

Lying, deception, and manipulation for profit or self-amusement: She does that, but it’s also a trait that overlap with PP.

Impulsive behavior: Nope.

Irritability and aggression: Nope.

Blatantly disregards the safety of self and others: Disregards for others perhaps, even thought she didn’t let the injured assassins dies (yet let countless people die for the clan).

A pattern of irresponsibility: Not really

Lack of remorse: Yes, but again, it overlap with PP.

So it seems that all the ASPD traits Yuri has are also PP traits. So therefore, I don’t think she would qualify as having ASPD. And given that she’s 30 now, she’s unlikely to change.

So in conclusion, Yuri is most likely born that way. My final diagnosis: Primary Psychopathy

Phew, that was long. So, among the four characters I analysed, they are all at different places on the spectrum. Here’s a good diagram to illustrate it. I’ll show on it where the characters are or will be in a couple of years:

Thanks for reading, if you have any comments or questions feel free to ask me and see you next time!

[manie-sans-delire-x]

Is there a condition which presents similarly enough to sociopathy/psychopathy that it may be overlooked in a diagnosis or any other conditions marked by a definite lack of empathy that you are aware of?

The only things that come to mind are narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), reactive attachment disorder (RAD), and autism; even though they’re all very different from each other, they can look similar at first glance.

NPD is often mixed up with ASPD because they also commonly have a lack of empathy and compassion, and untrained people may think a huge ego is a symptom of sociopathy. In actuality though, NPD can be quite different from ASPD. The main difference being that people with NPD generally care, a lot, about what others think of them. They need attention and praise to feel good about themselves and will have “narc collapses” if they don’t. It can be different if someone has both NPD and ASPD comorbidly though. Due to sex stereotypes, men with NPD are more likely to be misdiagnosed with ASPD and women with ASPD are more likely to be misdiagnosed with NPD.

RAD can also be confused with conduct disorder or ASPD because they can also be very violent, have no remorse or empathy, and break laws. But RAD specifically starts in early childhood (by the age of 5 I believe) and is only after severe abuse or neglect. It’s very rare, even among children who are severely abused/neglected. These children, different to conduct disorder, usually have a great desire for love and affection but are unable to accept it due to trauma. It’s mostly common among foster/adopted children who kept being bumped from one caregiver to another so they never got to properly attach to their mother figure. It’s an extreme version of why it’s so important for young children (under 3) to never be seperated from their primary caregiver for a lengthy amount of time. (Another reason why seperating kids from their parents when they immigrate to America is such an evil thing. There’s even footage proof of a toddler developing attachment problems because of this very reason.)

Sometimes ASPD and autism can be mixed up as well, because autistic people often are socially awkward and may appear to have no empathy, compassion, and be cold and overly logical. But while autisitic people lack social skills and ability, people with ASPD usually do not and often are quite charming. Autistic people lack cognitive empathy (ability to understand others, read social cues, ect) but have emotional empathy (feeling bad for others misfortunes, caring about others, ect) while ASPD is more like the opposite, having cognitive empathy but not affective/emotional.

[lovelyshadowynightmare]

 So What's her next move?

A malignant narcissist is someone with a particularly dangerous type of narcissistic personality disorder. Along with the typical traits of a narcissist, "these patients also display prominent anti-social behavior, tend toward paranoid features, and take pleasure in their aggression and sadism toward others," according to a paper in the American Journal of Psychiatry. Among the many types of narcissism, malignant narcissism is described as the one with "the greatest level of severity.

1.Anti Social, some common traits of anti-social personality disorder (known colloquially as sociopathy) include manipulation and exploitation without remorse. Too many examples to list on Manipulation.

2.Sadism, or taking pleasure in the pain of others, is one trait of malignant narcissism. "The typical anti-social person doesn't care what you think about them, but malignant narcissists get a swell of power from it," They'll think 'look at her crying, look at her suffering—I did that.' (Poor C&W).

3. Sophisticated and malicious plotting People with NPD don't usually act with intention—it's simply in their nature to be self-centered. "They're generally just spouting off lies until eventually one sticks and suddenly you believe they're cool or you feel inferior. Malignant narcissists are different, though. Malignant narcissists spend a lot of time plotting, and they act with malicious intent," he explains. "They're sophisticated in what they do.(So they are focused, calculated and have planned every single move).

4.Psychopathy Clinical psychologist and Harvard lecturer Craig Malkin, Ph.D., says, "Malignant narcissism is a combination of narcissism and psychopathy (remorseless or guiltless mistreatment of others)." It's also combined with Machiavellianism, which he describes as a "cold, chess-playing approach to life and love. NOW THERE'S SCARY INTENT.

5. Aggression. While narcissism doesn't always lead to physical violence, "when malignant narcissists start to view people as property, that's where violence can often come into play." The combination of sadism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism can be extremely dangerous. It most often leads to aggressive behavior and sometimes violence.

So, what's the difference between a malignant narcissist and a sociopath?

Sociopaths and narcissists have a lot in common, particularly when it comes to malignant narcissists. A sociopath is someone with anti-social personality disorder, which includes traits like aggression, lack of a conscience, prolific lying, and a reckless disregard for other people. In her book Outsmarting the Sociopath Next Door, clinical psychologist Martha Stout, Ph.D., notes that sociopathy is thought to be linked to neurological conditions, whereas narcissism is thought to be the result of childhood experiences. In practice, a sociopath can continually maintain a facade of warmth while they manipulate and hurt others, she explains, whereas most narcissists eventually pivot from love-bombing to coldness and cruelty. NOW I'M LEANING TOWARDS SOCIOPATH!

"The major discernible difference between narcissism and sociopathy is the distinction between hot and cold behaviors," clinical psychologist Martha Stout, Ph.D., writes in her book Outsmarting the Sociopath Next Door. "In many situations where the narcissist would be clueless, unresponsive, and perhaps annoyed, the sociopath will be responsive, often charmingly so, creating a better disguise than the narcissist has."

However, malignant narcissists combine traits of both narcissistic personality disorder and anti-social personality disorder, meaning they're both as cunning as the sociopath and driven by as much grandiose ego as the narcissist. Thus, malignant narcissists may be uniquely dangerous.

So the question I originally had was What is her next move? is MM a Narcissist or a sociopath? And why, would that reflect on her next move? Today, I looked at a photograph of her eyebrows and compared them to Marilyn Monroe. Yes, MM again, coincidence? Not,when she first got into acting. Shedding Rachel and having the MM intials she dreamt of being a mixed race Monroe. Unfortunately, her talent wasn't enough and she like Marilyn, to a certain degree, had to use men to get a leg up or a leg over. I feel sorry for her childhood friend, Ninaki Priddy and her ex husband Trevor. Her driving force seems to have always been the high life.

The court case now, if that goes against her - where will that leave her? Maybe an attempted suicide? "Look what they've driven me too" "I can't cope", it's my mental health. That would tie him to her, even more. Whatever way it goes, if this relationship finishes it will be because she wants it too.

She will control her world, but she can not control how we see her in ours.

[vulva-o-queef]

@hestiaq​ (making a new post because I don’t want to keep reblogging a long threat)

I’m really sorry for what you were put through. I sincerely hope you’re in a better situation now and doing okay. That’s horrific.

I remember the Ted Bundy bit you’re talking about- and she’s…. honestly quite right? If enough men have NPD/ASPD a few of them are going to seem intelligible, I think. I don’t really understand what you’re saying about Ted Bundy- if it’s tongue in cheek or not.

Okay, like I said, I haven’t seen this post she made. necromancerdoll just said that larps said sociopaths/psychopaths “can’t perform well in society/function with others.” I know aspd and being a sociopath are often considered the same thing, and I know a lot of them are pretty transparent assholes. Psychopathy isn’t a formal diagnosis at all, but criminal psychologists do use the term, and there’s a pretty solid consensus on what it means. Some people say psychopaths are a subset of sociopaths, and other people say it’s a similar but distinct thing, but in either case, one of the main characteristics of a psychopath (which a sociopath doesn’t, or doesn’t always have) is that they’re smooth and charming, and they use those traits to manipulate others.

My comment about Ted Bundy was sarcastic (and probably not in very good faith, but also wasn’t really related to the main point of all this), because saying psychopaths “can’t perform well in society/function with others” is the opposite of the truth. Ted Bundy was charming, socially adept, approachable, and likable, which was exactly how he managed to lure in many of his victims. He would put on a fake cast and ask women to help him get things into his car, which is what that scene from silence of the lambs is based on. Larps might be totally aware of all that and just phrased something too broadly. The only way it would be relevant to the rest of what I’m saying is, if she really meant to say that psychopaths are socially inept, it would be another example of how she tries to speak as an authority on mental disorders she doesn’t understand. Mostly I was just poking fun.

Women are over-diagnosed. But I don’t understand how Larps pointing out shitty behavior is the same as “diagnosing everyone”. Also, she’s talked about how borderline personality is over-diagnosed and often ascribed to women who are dealing with trauma. She’s also not talking about it from a “I don’t personally like them” only- “these people” are people who are cruel and vicious and play victim when called out on their cruel vicious behavior.

Clearly, you and I interpret the things she says about bpd and ‘cluster b’ in general very differently. For one, diagnosing anyone over the internet is absurd. In my first response to her, I did agree that she has made some good points, mostly about the link between autogynephilia and narcissism. But that’s about noticing an overarching theme within a specific population, and there’s already a decent amount of academic writing about that link. Case studies done by real psychologists. Actual studies done with controls and statistics and so on. And even with stuff like fucking “trans lesbian” dating profiles that larps points out herself, there is some solid evidence there due to the sheer repetition of entitled attitudes, fetishism, etc, the list goes on. My issue is with the way she thinks she understands BPD when she clearly doesn’t, how she applies “cluster b” or bpd to an awful lot of people, largely young ‘transmen’ or radfems she doesn’t like, and how whenever anyone she’s put down for having BPD tells her to cut it out, or tells her that she’s wrong about them, she dismisses anything they have to say by citing “people with bpd are insane,” or telling them they’re being irrational due to their disorder. Basically she’s using it as a shield to avoid being held accountable for the things she says. “Anyone who’s telling me borderline people aren’t irrational is only saying that because they’re borderline, and therefore they’re irrational!” I’m not saying she’s diagnosing “everyone.” And regarding transmen specifically, there are a lot of psychological factors involved in that situation, and for someone who’s so vocal about the cultlike, exploitative, backwards nature of the trans movement, you’d think she would understand how absurd and frankly just plain egotistical it is to think she can simplify all of those psychological factors and dynamics down to “cluster b.” Again - remember that she’s talking about people she’s never met in her life, usually judging from one blog description, a handful of posts, or sometimes nothing more than a fucking selfie.

Even as a younger girl with supposed “BPD” (who even identified with the label)- I wouldn’t have found this stuff offensive, and if it did (which I might have, and sometimes still do)- it’s really that easy to log off or go outside.

That’s good for you, and I respect your perspective. And you’re right, I could just log off and ignore what larps is saying. You can say that about anything anyone says on the internet, and technically it’s true. But I didn’t. The things she’s saying are ignorant, I find them personally hurtful, and I think she’s spreading misinformation, harmful stereotypes, and regressive thinking. I see that she’s saying dehumanizing and belittling things to women on this site who deserve respect, and probably worst of all, I see that there are a lot of people who look up to her, ask her for advice, sometimes idolize her a bit, and many of them will believe pretty much anything she says. She’s feeding them bullshit and some really vile ideas about mental health stigma, and how people with certain disorders (mainly BPD) deserve to be treated. I don’t think she’s the devil incarnate, and I don’t think she’s out here ruining lives and destroying families. I think she’s an asshole with an inflated sense of her own insight and knowledge, and I decided to say something. I could have logged off, but in this case, I didn’t. That’s all.

...I don’t understand how Larps memeing on a Tumblr blog and often posting insightful ideas about personality disorders is “insulting, ignorant, and dehumanizing”.

Yeah I don’t know what you consider “insightful,” but posting the definition of “insane” and copy-pasting a list of bpd symptoms and saying “see? these people are insane,” and tagging her response to my post with #have u ever noticed how all of these people have personality disorders (callback to “anyone who’s telling me borderline people aren’t irrational is only saying that because they’re borderline, and therefore they’re irrational!”) ...doesn’t quite cut it in my book.

She doesn’t bring up cluster b whenever she “feels” someone is acting unreasonable and dramatic- they… are unreasonable and dramatic- at least in whatever context, and people don’t have to dig deep to see who someone really is to be able to just say “no that’s insane, bye”.

Mmmm... I realize you see the situation differently from me, but am I acting insane? I mean, at worst, I’m making the undeniably blunt way she talks to people into something bigger than it needs to be. And yeah, I know... classic cluster b, amiright? But even if that’s the case, even if I’m misinterpreting her views, surely you can see where I’m coming from. And there are quite a few people who have the same objections that I do (mostly radfems, radfem adjacent women, terves, etc.). When she wrote that tag #have u ever noticed how all of these people have personality disorders, isn’t it clear that she was referring to me, as well as the rest of the radfemmish women who have been speaking against this behavior from her lately? Isn’t she making an assumption that I have a personality disorder (which I do not)? 

Do you really think my objection to the way larps talks about bpd is an indication that I have a personality disorder, and that I’m insane? Unreasonable at worst. But yes, she is absolutely using the excuse that those who object to her saying borderline people are irrational are saying so because they’re borderline/irrational. And like I said, I’m hardly the only example of her saying things like this. Someone just reblogged the original post of all of this and said #I just blocked larps bcuz shes been reblogging random old posts from me calling me a cluster b as bait #as far as I know I’m the only quote on quote crazy bihet that doesn’t have a pd? Someone else wrote #I really looked up to larps hence I’m so torn about this #if I didn’t believe she was a smart and decent well meaning person I wouldn’t care. That’s just on that particular post, within the last few hours.

People with personality disorders are diagnosed because they’re anti social and cause harm to those they “love”/interact with and the cluster b community (that I hung around) spend most of their time groveling in misery- despite often constructing their own fantastical narrative of people horrifically abusing them and demanding to be coddled for every emotion.

Some of them, yeah. Not all of them, and not enough to justify making assumptions about people you’ve never met.

What I mean is- the pain that they’re feeling is an offense to ego a LOT of the time. And other’s shouldn’t have to walk around eggshells to make sure that they don’t injure others egos.

Agreed.

Like it’s not real, rudfems don’t enable or contribute to violence against women. None of these women, no matter how mean they are, contributed to the pain I experienced in childhood for being called BPD- actually it was always men and handmaidens.

I didn’t accuse larps, or any other ‘rudefem’ of contributing to violence against women. I know that men were the reason ‘hysteria’ could be diagnosed in the past, and I know that men are the reason bpd is being overdiagnosed in women today. And I’m honestly not even trying to say larps is being misogynistic to the women she says this stuff to (though re-reading, I realize it could easily sound that way). Misogyny or not, dismissing someone’s perfectly measured, reasonable objection as irrational just because they have a bpd diagnosis - which in several cases, dr. larps diagnosed all by herself - is unacceptable, is the same pattern and circular justification used on ‘hysterical’ women in the past, and is particularly bad because, as we agree, bpd is too often being diagnosed as the new version of hysteria. She’s re-enforcing age-old stereotypes about mental illness, and she’s buying into it so completely that she really believes that borderline people are so unreliable that she knows what’s going on in their heads better than they do. Hence saying that borderline people objecting to her backwards stereotyping are doing so out of a kneejerk reaction to a damaged ego, rather than because they know what she’s saying is false.

Also - she isn’t talking about everyone with “diagnosed” BPD.

If that’s what she means, then she’s the one who needs to say it, not you. Again, I respect that you have a different view of this, and I understand your perspective, I can’t believe what others say about her intentions and supposed read-between-the-lines distinctions, when she doesn’t say it herself, and the things she says and the way she acts do not communicate what you’re saying about her.

Meaning, there’s a distinction between people who have been diagnosed and are suffering, and people who have been diagnosed (or not) and are cruel and have a total lack of insight and disregard for other people.

Mental health is complicated. You can’t divide people with bpd into two clean categories like that. That’s not how it works. And you CERTAINLY can’t lump people into the “bad” category simply because they don’t like how you talk about their disorder. You can’t see someone objecting to what you’re saying and assume that YOU know that they’re coming from a “total lack of insight.” People are not psychic. Larps is using the fact that some people with pds have a lack of self-awareness to dodge accountability when it’s convenient for her. It’s complete circular logic - something you would think she would be above, no? “they’re irrational, and when they complain about me calling them irrational, I can shut them down by saying that any complaint they make is irrational.” I know I keep saying this, but it’s true. In my first comment, I pointed out that this is her pattern, and what was her response? hashtag have u ever noticed how all these people have personality disorders. fucking exactly what I said her response would be, because that’s the only excuse she has. 

And yes, insight is a qualifying factor that “””exonerates”””” (quite a loaded word in this context????) someone from being “really” BPD. The thing about BPD is that they will not (or cannot) change- like it’s not a fixed part of your personality, and if it is- you deserve to be called out, and if it isn’t and you still behave like that… you deserve to be called out, still.

Again, no. If this is the case, then we need to make a second definition to separate “REALLY bpd” from “sorta bpd,” since currently they both meet the same diagnostic criteria. It’s not up to you, or larps, to create definitive new categories of mental illness.

I went from being told I had “borderline tendencies” to being diagnosed with full BPD, to basically nothing at all, because I became aware of those patterns, learned how to be objective about my thoughts and emotions, and practiced resisting them to the point where they only show up if I’m already in a really bad state. I don’t consider myself to have - or to have had - a personality disorder, because I’ve almost completely gotten rid of those mental reactions. But I know people who do have BPD, who are self aware, who are trying the same things I did, but the difference is that even though they now have the tools to keep them in check, those mental and emotional reactions are still present for them, and likely always will be. To say they don’t REALLY have bpd because they’re able to control it is frankly insulting. “If you’ve been able to improve it through treatment, you never really had it in the first place.” I know that’s not how you meant it, but that’s what it boils down to.

BPD is not defined by a lack of self-awareness. It’s a pattern of ingrained emotional and mental reactions (and, subsequently, behaviors). These often develop as a method of self defense against external abuse. Or sometimes there’s no abuse and it’s there anyways. The cause isn’t always clear. But the criteria calling these symptoms “pervasive” doesn’t mean the individual is unaware of them. People who know they have bpd, and who are working on treating their bpd still have bpd.

“...deserve to be called out”... it’s not larps’ business to “call someone out” for having bpd. She can call someone out for acting like a shithead, but simply having bpd is not a flaw that needs to be criticized. Your phrasing makes it seem like that’s what you’re saying, and although I’m pretty sure that’s not what you meant, that’s what larps seems to think.

Not only are neither you nor larps qualified to determine the “category” of bpd that people on the internet who you’ve never met fall into, but even IF that’s how she sees it, then, again, she needs to say that herself, and she needs to reflect that view in the way she treats people.

But to conclude, she really does make that explicitly clear that she doesn’t think everyone with BPD is a “screeching, manipulative, hysteric”.

Where

You made a bunch of excuses for her and I still have no reason to believe any of it is true

However, I’m mostly speaking for myself here because I’ve been hanging around tungle for too long and I mostly want to say that this all doesn’t really matter. Like, so many feminists on here ramble on about “but what about bpd women who get misdiagnosed?” yeah I didn’t face brutality at the hands of snarky women on the internet. These are not the people that even enabled the violence that me or many other women with trauma face.

Again, I didn’t say that. I don’t think she’s destroying lives either, I was just frustrated, saw that many other women are frustrated about her too, and I felt like saying something, so I did. That is the extent of my motivations here. I do think that she is spreading harmful stereotypes and misinformation, but I’m under no delusion that she is causing damage on a massive scale. She is, however, just one more raindrop in the proverbial ocean of mental health stigma. Insignificant as a single drop may be, surely it’s no less significant than any of those people with bpd whose bad behavior you say should be called out. If it’s larps’ business to call them out, then it’s just as much my business to call her out.

It’s not up to her and other women like her to clarify every single thing they say- people DO generalize and we should be able to communicate without having to specify for everyone.

I’m not asking her to clarify “every single thing” she says, I’m asking her to stop acting like a shithead, labeling people she’s never met, acting like she’s an authority on personality disorders, and using her actually wildly skewed perception of these disorders which is steeped in regressive, harmful, and demeaning stigma and stereotypes about mental illness in order to manipulate her way out of being held accountable for any of it. I’m not telling her to stop generalizing for the purpose of communication, I’m asking her to stop making inaccurate generalizations based on stereotypes, and to stop using “cluster b” as a catch-all for bad behavior. Just because someone is a shithead, or unreasonable, or overdramatic, doesn’t make them borderline, and it’s insulting to the people with bpd who are truly good people, who also have to deal with their disorder being an internet trend for self-dx’ers to milk sympathy and excuse their abusive behavior (sounds just like what larps would diagnose as cluster b, I know, but it turns out that many people who don’t have bpd exhibit these traits as well), deal with shitty treatment from healthcare providers who read the diagnosis and think they know everything about you before you even walk in the door (back when I had the ‘full bpd’ diagnosis, a therapist said to my face that people with bpd were considered ‘used goods,’ and my current psychiatrist treats me with an absurd and totally unjustified level of suspicion), deal with the massively pervasive stereotypes everyone else holds about bpd (ranging from ‘serial killer’ to ‘used goods’ to ‘fake trend on the internet to get attention’), as well as dealing with - oh yeah - the actual fucking disorder, as well as often comorbid cases of PTSD, depression, anxiety, bipolar, etc.

I’m just saying, it would be a lot more effective and hurt a lot less people you supposedly didn’t mean to target if you just called out the actual behavior instead of “calling out” a disorder. Additionally, I’m pretty sure that people with bpd who do lack self awareness are far more likely to respond to direct criticisms of their behavioral patterns than they are to respond to the label of bpd being “called out.” They’d just see the latter as more fuel for self-pity. It’s a little harder to justify being the victim of someone saying “hey stop being abusive.”

And if that’s not enough reasons for you, consider: people who have shitty behaviors who don’t have a cluster b disorder (yes, larps, they exist) are just gonna hear criticisms of a disorder they don’t have and brush it right off. Call out the actual behavior, and there’s a chance they might recognize it in themselves. It’s like a quadruple win.

A hallmark of bpd/npd/aspd/hpd is having no insight into that, that people say shit, and you take what you can and leave it-her, or me, or anyone else mincing that up….. doesn’t help bpd women live in a world where nobody is going to mince anything up ever. It did not help me when people coddled me, and I intuitively knew that and was deeply frustrated with it.

You’re right that it doesn’t help to have people make excuses for you or ‘coddle’ you. But not being unfair and pushing harmful stigma is not the same thing as “coddling.” Nor is “not mincing” words the same thing as saying things that are untrue, unfair, dismissive, and insulting. Much like Trump saying blatantly racist things is NOT “just telling it like it is.” (and no I’m not comparing you or larps to trump or calling anyone racist. except trump)

Many of the women who have ‘spoken up’ about larps on tungle, I’ve seen on other mediums (fb, wordpress) and they’re often just blatantly manipulative

Really? Am I being blatantly manipulative? Or insane? And, to reiterate, is what I’ve said on her post enough for her to assume that I - and anyone else raising these issues with her - ALL have personality disorders? Is it justification for her to say that I’m “glorifying” ASPD/BPD?

and will never have any insight to the fact that all of this is really a non-issue

I gave you several examples above, and here's your treasure trove:

https://larpsandtherealgirl.tumblr.com/search/cluster%20b

Notice how she loves agreeing with everyone saying they’ve been abused by someone with a cluster b disorder, or otherwise says something negative about a person/people with a cluster b disorder, makes sweeping generalizations and basically uses “cluster b” with the same tone that you would call someone an asshole - that is to say, using the same logical standards of “you said some shit I thought was rude, so I think you’re an asshole & I’m going to call you one” when talking about psychological medical diagnoses?

Yeah, occasionally she claims she’s only talking about The Bad Ones, but that’s a pretty thin excuse when 99% of the time you make no attempt to differentiate, and post things like screenshotted symptoms (which - if the “good ones” with that disorder actually have that disorder - would apply to the “good ones” too) with captions like “these people are insane.”

Again, I realize you see the things she says very differently from me, but surely you can see where I’m coming from. And I would hope that you can see that my having this perspective does not justify saying I have a personality disorder, that I am insane, or that I am “glorifying” ASPD and NPD. I would hope that the similar shit she’s said about several other women who said things similar to what I said would also strike you as unjustified. You can make excuses that she wasn’t literally diagnosing me with a personality disorder, but you can’t make that excuse every single time she says something like this.

but instead “leave radical feminism because it’s so full of mean lesbian separatists” and make huge texts about it everywhere else and how rfeminism is a cult.

Okay... this is an entirely separate and irrelevant subject and I’m not sure why you’re bringing it up. I mean it sounds like you’re saying “people who don’t like being told they’re insane are just butthurt kek” which I really hope is not what you’re saying. I’m pretty sure there are plenty of radical women who would object to being called insane and having their opinions dismissed because of a mental health diagnosis, who would raise their objections and still believe in their politics, probably due to the fact that - in this context - those things have virtually nothing to do with one another.

My point is- she’s not just saying ppl who criticize her have bpd- they often do because people with personality disorders come out of the woodwork to be hideously angry at anyone who calls them abusive or “wrong” and “bad” (whatever that means at any given moment).

In summary: I appreciate and respect that you interpret the things larps says in a very different way, and I’m not trying to tell you that you should be hurt or anything like that. But I can’t accept what I see as excuses that you’re making for her, since she doesn’t offer any of those explanations herself, and I don’t see any evidence of the intentions you’re attributing to her, in her own words or behavior.

At the end of the day, larps is the only person who can speak for larps’ intentions (much like the people whose criticisms larps deflects by claiming they’re motivated by irrational emotion and a threatened victim complex SHOULD be the only ones who can speak for their intentions).

And at the end of the day, larps didn’t show anything but disrespect and a total unwillingness to even consider that the way she speaks to, and treats, people with bpd and people who criticize her portrayal and internet-diagnosing of bpd, might not be 100% faultless.

At the end of the day, larps read what I had to say about her dismissive attitude and manipulative, circular justification for avoiding accountability. Her response was to double down on calling people with borderline “insane,” and double down on her own belief that googling a list of symptoms makes her an expert on psychology, as well as an expert on the thoughts in other peoples’ heads. She used the exact circular, dismissive excuse I was calling out, yet again said that the people criticizing her were all doing so because of their - well “our,” I should say, since she diagnosed me - personality disorders, rather than their actual thoughts, opinions, and perfectly reasonable objections. And then she answered a bunch of messages laughing about how crazy and terrible “cluster b”s are. No, she didn’t literally say “EVERY SINGLE PERSON with bpd is like this,” but come on. She’s not the only person who can recognize patterns of behavior.

[spaceorphan18]

Versace 2.3 - A Random Killing

Quick observations (spoilers for this episode and beyond):

This episode was utterly terrifying.  I knew what was going to happen and I was still feeling tense - knowing what would happen.  I wonder what those who didn’t know what would happen thought.  

I told you American Horror Story-esque

The description of Miglin’s murder is way, way worse in real life.  I was a bit relieved when the alluded to some of it.  (The whole thing is still horrifying - this was the most brutal and grotesque murder.  And I watched that scene with a blanket half covering my eyes.) 

Both murders tonight broke my heart.  

Poor William Reese didn’t get named - as he was the true random killing in the spree.  It’s interesting that they juxtaposed Reese with Miglin.  

Yes - on the same train as everyone else - give Judith Light all the accolades.  She did a great job for such a small part.  

The undercurrent of the episode (and the season) being shame for homosexuality is incredibly sad, too.  

There could have been a whole episode dedicated to the botched police procedures.  Because there was a lot of that - which led to Andrew getting down to Miami undetected.  The really sad part is that if they hadn’t leaked that the phone had a tracking device, William Reese would have lived. 

(Side note - the police were also tipped off by a good source that Andrew would head to Miami - but the police didn’t follow up on it.) 

This is the first time Darren terrified me in the role.  

Andrew just takes - without any kind of empathy or regard to anyone around him - which makes it so hard to watch.  

Just on a personal note, lack of empathy freaks me out.  -- which is why personality disorders that have lack of empathy, such as narcissism and psychopathy unnerve me.  

According to the book, Andrew Cunanan was profiled as a narcissist, fwiw.  Psychology Today’s definition of a narcissist:  “The hallmarks of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are grandiosity, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration. People with this condition are frequently described as arrogant, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding. They may also concentrate on grandiose fantasies (e.g. their own success, beauty, brilliance) and may be convinced that they deserve special treatment.”

Once we get back to his childhood - it’ll be clearer how he developed this way -- which is why, I’m assuming, we’re getting the backwards order. 

The next few episodes I think are going to be even more terrifying -- not in the grotesque way this one was -- but because there’s a more emotional element to them.  The next one up is David - the one person Andrew claimed to love (whether it was actual love or just obsession, don’t know) - but it’s the circumstances around this one that kept me up late when I read the book.  

////

Okay - so the one thing I wanted to address last week and didn’t - there seems to be an interesting artistic choice going on.  They’re letting Darren still be pretty.  One of the things the book kept trying to make clear - was that around the time of his killing spree, Andrew Cunanan was in bad physical shape.  He never exercised (which made it hard for him to prostitute himself), and the drugs had really done their number on him.  By the end of his life, he was overweight and looking pretty gross.  When he got to Miami, he tried to get a job as an escort through (idk what they’re called - an employer?) and was turned down and laughed at - they thought he was kidding based on what he looked like.  (I believe he had also cut his hair all off again - but I can’t remember 100%.)  

So yeah - I think it’s interesting that Darren is allowed to retain his attractiveness for the role (even if I think he’s doing fantastic as emotionless and unhinged), and I suppose it makes me wonder why ---- which could range from - we didn’t want to make our lead actor gain fifty pound to real evil can be contained in a beautiful box.  I don’t have an answer - it was just a thing that stuck out to me. 

[duncancounsellor]

What Causes Some People to be Narcissistic?

It can seem as though the number of people who are narcissistic are growing, but what causes this? It is seen as one of the ‘dark traits’ amongst psychologists alongside sadism, Machiavellianism and psychopathy and different people with narcissistic traits present themselves differently. There are 9 recognised traits which are - Grandiose sense of importance where they exaggerate their talents and/or achievements. This conceals an underlying sense of impotence, shame and inadequacy A pre-occupation with feelings of perceived success such as status, money, possessions or beauty A heightened sense of entitlement where they believe they deserve special privileges or treatment Exploitation of others to meet their own needs Requires excessive admiration Lacks empathy where they are unable to identify with how others may be feeling Is envious of others or believes others are envious of them Displays regular arrogant behaviours Believes they are special or unique so they do not have to conform to expected norms These traits show themselves differently in different people as we are all our own unique beings. It is now generally accepted that there are at least two subtypes which are grandiose or overt narcissism and vulnerable or covert narcissism (Cain 2008; Pincus 2014). People with the former subtype may appear arrogant, pretentious, dominant, self-assured, exhibitionist or aggressive, whereas people with the latter may present as overly sensitive, insecure, defensive and anxious about an underlying sense of shame and inadequacy. Individuals with grandiose or vulnerable narcissism share a preoccupation with satisfying their own needs at the expense of or the consideration of others (Ronningstam, 2014). For example, a person who may be overtly narcissistic is likely to feel little stress about the emotional damage they cause to others, such as by trampling on them to fulfil their goals. The vulnerable narcissist may feel cornered if their insecurities are triggered and then behave very aggressively or defensively without a thought for others. But Why? How does narcissism develop in some people but not others? As with many personality disorders, narcissism is thought to come from a range of genetic and environmental factors and research suggests the following factors are prevalent in the development of narcissistic traits. Dysfunctional parenting is cited as one of the leading causes and this includes: - Insensitive parenting – unmet needs often creates confusion and instability Over-praising and excessive pampering - when parents focus intensely on a particular talent or the physical appearance of their child (this is often as a as a result of their own self-esteem issues) Unpredictable care – this can lead for a child being unable to trust others. Negligent care – this leads to a child’s needs not being met making it difficult for them to trust others Excessive criticism – can create feelings of inadequacy which are then concealed with narcissistic behaviours Abuse – can create a range of issues from feeling inferior to very vulnerable, low and anxious Trauma – can create anxiety and low mood Extremely high expectations – this often creates a sense of not being good enough Studies suggest that parental indulgence is associated with both grandiose narcissism and vulnerable narcissism. Parents being cold or controlling are more likely influence the development of vulnerable narcissism. The effects of dysfunctional parenting creates insecurities and inadequacies which are dealt with by developing narcissistic traits as a defence mechanism. Often, this means the individual does not take responsibility or own their perceived issues, possibly because they may find them unbearable. Covert narcissists unfortunately tend to reinforce their issues with their defensive behaviours.

Cultural influences are also said to promote a more narcissistic society, in which individualism, professional success, fame and material wealth are celebrated (foster, 2003). Increasingly societal pressures from school grades to status and financial wealth are seen as measures of success rather than developing wellbeing, family values and community responsibility. The increase of competing against each other can encourage those susceptable to being narcissistic to feel entitled to their dysfunctions at the expense of others. Genetics ― There are theories that some people may have inherited characteristics although very few studies have looked at a genetic basis for NPD. Neurobiology — This is linked to the connection between the brain and behaviour and thinking. This can be where repeated thought and behaviour patterns become habitual and to the point where there’s a desensitisation to feeling anything is wrong. For example, this can be not being able to consider others, feeling I should be achieving more than others or not showing thought or concern for the affect of our behaviours on others. This can be very distressing for narcissists as they become confused when things go wrong when they are simply following their perceived norms. Behavioural responses to childhood development factors. Difficulties in our younger years can affect people in many ways and some will adopt unhealthy patterns or develop narcissistic traits, often as a way of coping with their traumas or difficulties. For example, the child that feels unappreciated or not good enough may act out in school with grandiose ideas and gain attention for this behaviour which further encourages it. The child may also feel hard done by and will internalise their feelings. Their ability to empathise does not develop as they feel they have it worse than others and ultimately feel sorry for themselves. These feelings can manifest in aggressive defensive behaviours or in feeling it’s ok to trample over others in order to achieve their desired outcomes. People with narcissistic traits have often created maladaptive ways to deal with their unmet needs or traumas which in the long run, makes their lives a great deal worse. This is often dealt with by repeating the same patterns creating further distress. Having compassion helps so much although often, the behaviours become unbearable and all we can do is find ways to protect ourselves. It’s ironic that narcissism can easily be blamed on factors outside of the individuals control such as dysfunctional parenting or cultural factors rendering them as a victim of circumstances. It is this child-like helpless state that they find so difficult to get out of that holds them in their repeated patterns rather than being able find a way to develop into a more responsible adult state. For further and more indepth analysis you may want to read Current understanding of narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder As always, feel free to ask a question or make a comment References: Bressert, S. (2019). Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Symptoms & Treatments. Psych Central. Available at: https://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder/ . Cain, NM, Pincus, AL, Ansell, EB (2008) Narcissism at the crossroads: phenotypic description of pathological narcissism across clinical theory, social/personality psychology, and psychiatric diagnosis. Clinical Psychology Review, 28: 638–56 Counselling-directory.org.uk. (2019). Narcissistic Personality Disorder Counselling - Counselling Directory. Available at: https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/narcissistic.html . Foster, JD, Campbell, WK, Twenge, JM (2003) Individual differences in narcissism: inflated self views across the lifespan and around the world. Journal of Research in Personality, 37: 469–86 McBride, K. (2016). 8 Tips to Protect Yourself from a Narcissist. Psychology Today. Available at: https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-legacy-distorted-love/201610/8-tips-protect-yourself-narcissist . PsyCom.net. (2019). What to Do About Narcissistic Personality Disorder?. Available at: https://www.psycom.net/personality-disorders/narcissistic/ . Pincus, AL, Lukowitsky, MR (2010) Pathological narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder. Annual Review of Clinical Psychology: 68: 943–953 Ronningstam, EF (2014) Narcissistic personality disorder. In Gabbard’s Treatments of Psychiatric Disorders (ed Gabbard, GO): 1073–86. American Psychiatric Publishing Yakeley, J. (2018). Current understanding of narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder. BJPsych Advances, 24(5), pp.305-315. Available at: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-advances/article/current-understanding-of-narcissism-and-narcissistic-personality-disorder/4AA8B04FB352F8E00AA7988B63EBE973/core-reader# . Read the full article