#where is kelly thompson

[annamariedarkholmes]

the way that adult men working both in the x-men office and “influencer” fan-adjacent spaces always behave so performatively extra about gambit will never stop being weird to me. it’s such a nasty underhanded way to gatekeep his (mostly female lbr) fans under the guise of (repeatedly asserting) mere personal preference

[dailydccomics]

Big Barda by Arist Deyn Birds of Prey #5 (2023-)

[call-me-oracle]

barbara gordon in birds of prey #8

bonus:

[xmenred2022]

I hate jokes like this. It’s barely worth making in the first place but to overplay it for another two lines is criminal

[ambrozians]

roguegambit on the same team again and going to new orleans 😄 but the book is being written by gail simone 🧍🏾‍♀️

[hotvintagepoll]

Congrats to the ultimate winner of the Hot & Vintage Movie Men Tournament, Mr. Toshiro Mifune! May he live happily and well where the sun always shines, enjoying the glories of a battle hard fought.

A loving farewell to all of our previous contestants, who are now banished to the shadow realm and all its dark joys and whispered horrors—I hear there's a picnic on the village green today. If you want to remember the fallen heroes, you can find them all beneath the cut.

What happens next? I'll be taking a break of two weeks to rest from this and prep for the Hot & Vintage Ladies Tournament. I'll still be around but only minimally, posting a few last odes to the hot men before transitioning into a little early ladies content, just like I did with this last tournament. The submission form for the Hot & Vintage Ladies tournament will remain up for one more week (closing February 21st), so get your submissions in for that asap! Once the form closes, there will be one more week of break. The first round of the Hot & Vintage Ladies Tournament will be posted on February 29th, as Leap Year Day seems like a fitting allusion to leaping into these ladies' arms.

Thanks for being here! Enjoy the two weeks off, and send me some great propaganda.

In order of the last round they survived—

ROUND ONE HOTTIES:

Richard Burton

Tony Curtis

Red Skelton

Keir Dullea

Jack Lemmon

Kirk Douglas

Marcello Mastroianni

Jean-Pierre Cassel

Robert Wagner

James Garner

James Coburn

Rex Harrison

George Chakiris

Dean Martin

Sean Connery

Tab Hunter

Howard Keel

James Mason

Steve McQueen

George Peppard

Elvis Presley

Rudolph Valentino

Joseph Schildkraut

Ray Milland

Claude Rains

John Wayne

William Holden

Douglas Fairbanks Sr.

Harold Lloyd

Charlie Chaplin

John Gilbert

Ramon Novarro

Slim Thompson

John Barrymore

Edward G. Robinson

William Powell

Leslie Howard

Peter Lawford

Mel Ferrer

Joseph Cotten

Keye Luke

Ivan Mosjoukine

Spencer Tracy

Felix Bressart

Ronald Reagan (here to be dunked on)

Peter Lorre

Bob Hope

Paul Muni

Cornel Wilde

John Garfield

Cantinflas

Henry Fonda

Robert Mitchum

Van Johnson

José Ferrer

Robert Preston

Jack Benny

Fredric March

Gene Autry

Alec Guinness

Fayard Nicholas

Ray Bolger

Orson Welles

Mickey Rooney

Glenn Ford

James Cagney

ROUND TWO SWOONERS:

Dick Van Dyke

James Edwards

Sammy Davis Jr.

Alain Delon

Peter O'Toole

Robert Redford

Charlton Heston

Cesar Romero

Noble Johnson

Lex Barker

David Niven

Robert Earl Jones

Turhan Bey

Bela Lugosi

Donald O'Connor

Carman Newsome

Oscar Micheaux

Benson Fong

Clint Eastwood

Sabu Dastagir

Rex Ingram

Burt Lancaster

Paul Newman

Montgomery Clift

Fred Astaire

Boris Karloff

Gilbert Roland

Peter Cushing

Frank Sinatra

Harold Nicholas

Guy Madison

Danny Kaye

John Carradine

Ricardo Montalbán

Bing Crosby

ROUND THREE SMOKESHOWS:

Marlon Brando

Anthony Perkins

Michael Redgrave

Gary Cooper

Conrad Veidt

Ronald Colman

Rock Hudson

Basil Rathbone

Laurence Olivier

Christopher Plummer

Johnny Weismuller

Clark Gable

Fernando Lamas

Errol Flynn

Tyrone Power

Humphrey Bogart

ROUND 4 STUNGUNS:

James Dean

Cary Grant

Gregory Peck

Sessue Hayakawa

Harry Belafonte

James Stewart

Gene Kelly

Peter Falk

QUARTERFINALIST VOLCANIC TOWERS OF LUST:

Jeremy Brett

Vincent Price

James Shigeta

Buster Keaton

SEMIFINALIST SUPERMEN:

Omar Sharif

Paul Robeson

FINALIST FANTASIES:

Sidney Poitier

Toshiro Mifune

and ok, sure, here's the shadow-bracket-style winner's portrait of Toshiro Mifune.

[drbatsponge]

It's kind of sad I almost don't want Barbara to show up in Cassandra's new series because like unless she's fully Oracle I don't want it.

I think this new writer would probably treat her well though, it's just I wonder if it'll be a Kelly Thompson situation where editorial is forcing her to show Babs in that damn suit every once in a while.

Either way, I hope this new solo is a massive success so it POSSIBLY can force DC to finally have Babs hang up that fucking cape.

[celine-song]

I think it's really great that you found a place where you feel.

Ghostlight (2024) dir. Alex Thompson, Kelly O’Sullivan

[farsight-the-char]

BIRDS OF PREY #13

Written by KELLY THOMPSON

Art by GAVIN GUIDRY

Cover by LEONARDO ROMERO

ON SALE 9/4/24

With the search for Barbara finally over, Cass leads the Birds of Prey through  the portal one final time, and where they end up is a world far too familiar to  Cass but strange to everyone else. What here will turn everything on its head…or should we say who?!

....

"Familiar to Cass but Strange to Others...."

Spirit World Reunion!

[medusamagic]

So you want to know more about Big Barda

As Tumblr's resident expert on all things Barda, and as Kelly Thompson's Birds of Prey run brings far more attention to the character, I figured it was high time someone stepped in and gave the tumblr world a primer on DC's biggest and boldest heroine.

The Basics:

Introduced in Mister Miracle #4 by Jack Kirby, Big Barda was once the leader of Apokolips' premier death squad, the Female Furies. Trained from birth for a life of violence by Granny Goodness, Barda spent the first 250 years of her life as a living weapon. This all changed when she met Scott Free, a gentle Parademon-in-training with a mysterious past and a knack for escapes. Eventually, she and Scott both escaped to Earth, where they fell in love with both the Earth and each other. She's a lover, she's a fighter, she's a Pokémon card expert, but most of all, SHE BIG.

Barda's signature defining attribute is her raw strength. Her raw muscle allows her to keep up with heavy hitters like Wonder Woman. This isn't to suggest that she's a simple-minded brute, however-- Barda has centuries of military experience under her belt as leader of the Female Furies. She's mastered multiple weapons, including spears, swords, and her signature Mega-Rod.

Below are some reading recommendations for anyone interested in Big Barda:

Essential Runs:

Mister Miracle Vol. 1 #4-18 by Jack Kirby (1971-1974)

This was the run that introduced the world to Big Barda, as well as the Female Furies. If you want to know the basics of Barda, there's no better place to start. This run is collected in a trade, as well as a part in The Fourth World Omnibus Vol. 1.

(NOTE: Even though Barda doesn't appear until issue #4, I suggest you start with Issue #1. It'll help you get acquainted with the rest of the mythos.)

Justice League International #14-24 by Keith Giffen and J.M. DeMatteis (1988-1989)

Big Barda was on the JLI! She plays off the other characters as well as ever, and a lot of what's great about her in Jack Kirby's original run is still here! Definitely check this one out if you want to see her in another team setting. This has been collected in this omnibus.

(NOTE: Once again, I recommend you start from issue #1.)

Popular Runs:

Mister Miracle Vol. 4 #1-12 by Tom King and Mitch Gerads (2017-2018)

Yeah, I know.

Listen, Tom King is a writer with... idiosyncrasies to put it nicely. The characters in the periphery of his stories tend to act really out of character, and his dialogue can be clunky at times. That being said, The Scott/Barda dynamic in this book is excellent, and this book has some of the best art that the Fourth World has seen since the 80s. The series has been collected in a trade.

(NOTE: Did you know that the CIA has over 2003 files on Tom King? Look up "Tom King CIA 2003" for more info!)

Mister Miracle: The Great Escape by Varian Johnson and Daniel Isles (2022)

If you're at all interested in the idea of a Young Adult reimagining of Mister Miracle and Big Barda's origin story with an all-black cast, this book was made for you. It's a bit heavy on the YA tropes, but the Scott/Barda dynamic is really solid. It was released as a standalone graphic novel.

Birds of Prey Vol. 5 #1-??? by Kelly Thompson and Leonardo Romero (2023-)

Admit it, this is the reason you're here. The Cassandra Cain & Big Barda is so instantly iconic, I'm surprised no writer has paired them up sooner. It also helps that this book has the single best Barda look since Jack Kirby's original run. Plus, she gets to throw down with Wonder Woman! What's not to love? This run is still ongoing, but the first 6 issues should be getting a trade pretty soon.

(NOTE: I started writing this before BOP #8 dropped, I had no idea about that thing that happens in the newest issue.)

Stories to Avoid:

Action Comics #592-593 by John Byrne (1987)

This is not a comic book-- it's an infohazard designed to cause pain and suffering to anyone who knows of its existence. Its premise is vile and disrespectful on the surface, and it becomes more insidious when you learn the context of its creation. This pair of issues is profoundly evil, rivaling even Avengers #200 in terms of loathsomeness.

For those who dare to investigate this, Content Warnings for rape, mind control, and human trafficking.

Anyway, let's end on something a bit lighter, shall we?

Remember that Mister Miracle YA graphic novel I mentioned earlier? Barda is getting a graphic novel of her own this summer! It's not out at the time of writing, but the preview pages look promising!

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed that introduction to one of my favorite superheroes ever. Please get back to me on this, I have no one else to talk to about Fourth World stuff.

[dailycass-cain]

Birds of Prey #12 brings the Cass action to the forefront!

It also gets me something I always wanted to see: Sophie Campbell drawing Cass. But it comes-- with a TWIST!!

We're nearing the end point of this arc, and we get the craziest issue yet of the world hoping. This time the Birds getting "toonnified".

And that is "the twist"

Since I first saw her work on IDW TMNT. I always wanted to see Sophie Campbell draw Cass. Well wish granted this issue. But it's an utterly adorable Cass.

Though, what shall we call this Cass version? Toon Cass? Cass Toon? No wait that one is taken. 🤪

Anyhoot, this toon world feels honestly the most fleshed out of them all. Like it felt there was this underlying unease with each world the Birds visited.

Here this is the first one that feels like a world onto itself. I wonder where this will go with the "final world" teased at the end.

Even though, last issue Cass was put on the back burner, this issue she gets A LOT of focus. So much so I believe this issue she has more dialogue than the prior ELEVEN issues!

Even with all this Cass, all the Birds get a moment this issue. Barda and Vixen get absolute banger moments this issue and their toon designs are just perfection. Likewise so does Sin, and even Babs. Everyone gets something this issue.

And it all starts with Cela walking out, and Cass following. Now I now there was A LOT of shippers jumping onto the two this issue.

So let's dissect the real bonding, and maybe-- it can go to be more?

Writer Kelly Thompson has touched on many dimensions to Cass in the series thus far. Here she digs into the core of Cass: compassion.

A few issues ago, we learned Cela's origins, and last issue put it on the back burner, but this issue we get the forefront as she knows the Birds reunited that time is almost up with her newfound companions and the hope of being free from this prison.

I think Cass can really relate to Cela. That she's stuck in this world, and really is trying to be good despite the world wanting otherwise. Not to mention losing A LOT of sisters?

It sounds FAMILAIR doesn't it?

think Cass relates a lot to Cela and is trying to break that ice with her being there for her. She can see how her body is screaming for someone to vent with.

And well... we get the scene between the two.

Now as to WHY people are jumping on this ship bandwagon so much? Well, when was the last time Cass had an honest to god love interest in the main DCU?

You could say Stephanie Brown (Batgirls 2021-2023). Or... Harper Row (2016).

But if we're going to her honest-to-goodness CONFIRMED she's interested in?

It was Sal from Batgirl Vol. 2 (2009).

It's been THAT long since Cassandra Cain had a CONFIRMED love interest.

I think fan interest in wanting Cass to get SOME loving is WHY we're at this point. The girl deserves it. Though personally I see ANOTHER option (if not Harper), who just happens to show up this issue too.

So I get WHY many shipping vibes are there for Cass/Cela.

But the rest of the issue is Cass coming up with a plan to FINALLY be free while also dealing with Maia problem too.

And here we get our SECOND bit of Cass in the issue.

This and a few other reaction images are so getting memed by us Cass fans. I know it.

But yeah it's a nice "character progression" from someone who told a "bad story" in #1 to now coming up with a good plan in #12.

And the plan even involves a homage to what Sophie Campbell is most famous for. 😁😁😁

You thought I wouldn't notice the streams crossed did ya? BUT I DID!

Birds of Prey #12 is an emotional ride but with a toony twist. It has such a glorious cute edge this issue. And this world with the Birds REALLY clicked. I've gone back to reading this issue more over than the prior bits of this arc.

I feel there's nothing more to say than I'm REALLY curious where this all goes next issue and how this will tie into the Spirit World?

I guess we'll see. Other than, I'm curious what your thoughts are on Cass/Cela?

And are you surprised it's been THAT LONG Cass had a love interest?

*this is me now waiting for comments*

[hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger]

Zeb Wells was never, ever QUALIFIED to write for Spider-Man. As in, if I was hiriing for the job of Spider-Man writer, he'd never have even made it to the interview stage.

See, I'm an old geezer Spider-Man fan. I was there back in the early-mid 2000s when Wells first came onto the Spider-Man scene. That was when he was younger, fresher, more full of energy and less cynical. And even then his stories were mediocre at best, mercifully confined merely to fill-in issues here and there.

Fill-in issues that weren't even on ASM but on the side-books like Peter Parker: Spider-Man and dubiously canonical anthologies like Spider-Man's Tangled Web. Beyond that, he did occassional mini-series and one shots.

His ONE legitimately good story was the origin of J. Jonah Jameson, a single issue in which Spider-Man himself barely ever appeared. That was around 2004(ish). Zeb Wells unironically peaked on Spider-Man 20 years ago and it wasn't even a particularly high peak either. It was more like a small hillock.

Sure, he finally got to write ASM between 2008-2010 during Brand New Day, but like...who DIDN'T get to write ASM back then? It was coming out 3 times a month with a rotating creative team, amongst which Wells was never touted as one of the superstar writers. Love or hate them, Dan Slott, Mark Waid, Joe Kelly, Bob Gale, and even an out of retirement Roger Stern were who the Marvel promotional machine hyped up. Again, love or hate them, back in 2008-2010 these were BIG names to suddenly be working on Spider-Man. In other words, when Wells finally got 'promoted' he was essentially a mere fill-in writer AGAIN.

That being said, he did get one really big chance to bat when he was tasked with doing the biggest Lizard story of all time, 'Shed'. Reinventing a classic Lee/Ditko villain. Leading directly into Grim Hunt, the storyline that was the culmination of much of what BND had been building towards? Writing a story that was going to be one of the last in the BND era in fact? This was Zeb Wells' shot to make a name for himself in the annals of Spider-Man History.

And he succeeded! By which I mean 'Shed' was debated as potentially one of the all time WORST Spider-Man stories ever, and unquestionably the worst Lizard story there had ever been.

Shed was to Curt Connors what One More Day was to Peter Parker. A nonsensical plot geared towards a complete and utter character assassination. We are talking about a story with cannibalism, fratricide, potential sexual assault, vomit inducing art and egregious continuity fuck ups to the point where even the very first Lizard story directly contradicts it. This story was SO bad that even a manchild crybully troll like Dan Slott tried to walk it back, doing no less than 2 stories across 5(ish) years in which he cleaned up some of the mess Wells had left. Further repairs were applied during Nick Spencer's run, in particular during 'Hunted'. Yes, 'Shed' was so godforsakenly terrible it took multiple stories across almost 10 years to fix it.

THIS was the guy Marvel picked to be the 'main writer' during the Ben Reilly Beyond era, aka Brand New Day 2. His 'promotion' was to be brought out of Spider-Man writer's jail (where he belonged) so he could once more be the rotating writer in a tri-monthly set up. Except now he was to BND2 what I guess Dan Slott had been to BND1.

The difference being that BND1 had more writers and many/most of them had WAY more status to their names than any of the BND2 writers. Like, it is ridiculous to suggest Kelly Thompson or Saladin Ahmed in 2021 were anywhere near the Big Name status Mark Waid or Joe Kelly enjoyed in 2008. Even Slott back then, who hadn't yet become AS big as he would later (undeservedly) be, was still someone most of the fanbase had WANTED to write for Spider-Man for a good long while before then.* Wells was now simply swimming in a much smaller pond, his seniority being the microscopic edge he had over Thompson and Ahmed.

And yet, Chip Zdarsky when he took over Spectacular Spider-Man had way less experience than Wells had with the character. Nick Spencer too, he'd mostly just written a great mini-series in Superior Foes of Spider-Man. And of course, Roberto Aguirre Sacasa had never written Spider-Man when he was hired in 2006. Neither had Paul Jenkins in 2000. Neither had JMS in 2001. Love it or hate it, Marvel are not opposed to hiring new blood, untested blood even, for ASM or other monthly Spider-Man titles.

So, you have to wonder, why DIDN'T the younger guns Kelly Thompson , Saladin Ahmed or any other fresh blood take over after the Beyond era? Why CHOOSE Wells when he's been hanging around the block for about 20 years?

Incompetence? Yes...but also because it is patently obvious that NO ONE ELSE WANTED THIS JOB!

Wells was not hired because of his talent. He was hired because Marvel were DESPERATE. As they say, any port in a storm, right?

Because of their dogmatic enforcement of the post-One More Day state of affairs, because of how they treated Nick Spencer as a result of that, because of their general incompetence in running their entire company for the past 15+ years, Marvel have burned their bridges with too many creators. The anti-OMD writers don't want the job because they naturally want to undo OMD. The pro-OMD/neutral writers don't want the job because the fanbase naturally will yell at them for enforcing the post-OMD status quo. And neither want the job because the blatant interference Nick Spencer endured is gross and not worth the hassle, not when substack, indie and possibly even other editorial departments at Marvel/DC are options for them.

Shit, when you really think about it, Zeb Wells isn't the fundamental problem. He is just the latest symptom of it.

*Not me. In 2008 I wasn't opposed to Slott writing ASM per se. But his work on She-Hulk and Spidey-Torch, whilst good in their own right, hadn't hypnotised me into thinking he was obviously be a great fit for ASM. Unfortunately, most people were hypnotised.

[zahri-melitor]

ooo yeah I noticed the birds of prey thing too. before I sat down to read it I definitely had the conception of them as the "fuck yeah girl power!" team and I was thinking about the. higher presence of male characters as members of the team? I almost made a post about it myself recently but I had trouble figuring out how to say it in a way that didn't feel to me like "but what about the men!!1!"

anyways yeah 👍 I'd never call any of them the heart of the team per se but they are still important parts of it imo

Yeah, exactly. It's hmm, more organically driven out of the scenario in say Dixon's run, where Jason Bard is present (because he and Babs used to date in the Bronze Age) but also they're friendly exes! And Bard is running his own detective agency where he mentored under Dinah's father! There are solid reasons for Bard's inclusion, but also the story does not focus on him particularly.

Or Ted being an outright member of the team...on the computer tech side with Barbara, because he's officially retired as Blue Beetle.

It makes sense. They're contributing skills and they have reason to be present.

Or in Simone's run, it's full of women (including the post Dinah/Ollie marriage section where Dinah's left the team to go be in GA/BC and Barbara is reacting extremely normally to not having Dinah around and certainly not throwing a tantrum and pushing people away by recruiting a bunch of people she has emotional distance from), but Babs is also focused on reforming Savant and Creote. They were bad guys! They were introduced kidnapping and injuring Dinah! And yet their contributions as team members are built up over time.

It's not so much 'what about the menz' as much as 'why only women?'

(It is also marked that this happens in the transition from Birds of Prey as Barbara's Op Team, the team Babs put together to accomplish her own goals, to a more generic 'oh this is the girl character team' situation, where the team's formed in n52 by Dinah and there's that whole alternate canonical Harley Quinn BOP run, to the point that Kelly Thompson and team got a bit surprised by the level of frustration and requests for 'where is Barbara? where is Helena?' over the 2023 team, because the viewpoint has shifted so much from This is The Team Barbara Directs to DC's Premier Women Team)

[spaceorphan18]

The Rogue and Gambit Project : The Muir Island Saga

The first time we see Rogue and Gambit on the same page together is the cover of Uncanny X-Men #275 - which was one of those VERY SPECIAL ISSUES that put everyone on the cover. No, this is not a part of the Muir Island Saga -- but belongs to the previous arcs (Savage Land and Space Shenanigans). Still, it's pretty cool to see them on the cover together.

So, here's the thing about the Muir Island Saga - the next arc of the comics - despite dealing with the same adversary, and spending time with the same group of people, we never see Rogue and Gambit mix. In fact - (something I'll point out in detail in a minute) - it's almost comical how much they seem to be ships passing in the night. It's almost as if it's done purposely.

I know that years (and years and years and years) later - we'll get a retcon of their first meeting. And I really thought a lot about whether or not I should talk about that here... and, not to disappoint some of you, but I'm not going to (for now). Because I kind of want to tackle this project from a chronological point of view. To experience things as they were happening without the added layers of what we'll get next. And the retcon kind of, gets into a whole lot of issues I don't want to dig into yet. So, I promise, I'll talk about Kelly Thompson's Mini when we get there, we're just... a very long way off from that.

In the meantime, the thing about this arc that's so fascinating is trying to pinpoint how they could meet. And when. And why. And thing I keep coming back to is... comics don't make a whole lot of sense, y'all.

Let's dive in...

Uncanny X-Men #278

The whole premise of The Muir Island Saga is that the Shadow King wants to get out of the Astral Plane and kind of brainwashes the residents of Muir Island (including the X-Men) in order to do it. Don't ask me to make sense of it, I'm just the recapper!

The real purpose of the whole thing is to reshuffle the line, which had been in such flux up until this point. The X-Office was getting ready to launch the new Adjectiveless X-Men book, and Chris Claremont was getting ready to depart after 17 years of being the sole author of X-Men. Things were definitely changing and this saga finally gets all the pieces to where they need to be.

As an aside, I do find it fascinating that the beginning of Rogue and Gambit's relationship coincides with all of these changes. Not only is the decade changing, but X-Men's status quo is about to be really shaken up after being a relatively steady book for a very, very long time. It's just kind of neat that the endings and beginnings happening on an external level are also happening with our characters as well.

Uncanny X-Men #278

For some context, after the destruction of the mansion after the Inferno crossover, and after remaining X-Men all ended up going through the Siege Perilous after the Australian era, Muir Island, home of (brilliant scientist and ex-Xavier lover) Moira MacTaggart became the home of a new (and short lived) group of X-Men. I can only assume that's why Rogue returned here after her little side adventure in the Savage Land.

Though I should point out that Rogue has ZERO idea who is alive and who is dead other than the people who are already on the island. I kind of wonder what her future plans would have been if the other X-Men never showed up. Anyway... though, there really isn't any full explanation as to why Rogue went back to Muir Island other than they had no intention of writing her out of the book, and they needed all the X-Men to be in one place.

How does she feel about the events of the Savage Land? What really happened with her and Magneto? The answer is -- who cares, we're done with that plot now and moving on until another comic book writer decides to tug on that loose plot thread. :P

Uncanny X-Men #278

What is important to know that the Shadow King is mind controlling everyone. And... he does so with Rogue by making out with her after she's been in the shower? What??

Look, I'm not going to claim this stuff makes a whole lot of sense. But I can fanwank it a little...

The Shadow King's whole deal is that he's trying to corrupt everyone and bring them to their most evil (because, you know, that's what evil villains do). And with Rogue - he plays on her sense of touch. Back in the old days, Rogue used kissing as her primary way of stealing people's powers. And on top of that, one of her deepest rooted struggles (as of obvious statement isn't obvious) is the fact that she isn't able to have physical contact. So the Shadow King is tapping into both of those things, and, as the whole 'temptation' quote insinuates - him letting her give into her desires allows him to brainwash her.

Now, do I really believe she'd be enticed this easily? Can the Shadow King have that deep a hold on anyone? That is for you to decide, fair reader.

It's at least my interpretation. Honestly, I think there's a bigger part of me that wonders if they really just wanted to see Rogue making out with someone because because they can.

Meanwhile, on the opposite page, guess who is landing with the rest of the X-Men who just returning from space? That's right, everyone can relax. Gambit has arrived. ;) They're now in the same place... so if we can only get them to the same panel...

Uncanny X-Men #278

Alright guys, time to play the logistics game... these two panels are on opposite pages. Gambit, fresh off his plane, ends up running into Multiple Man - and they have a little fight. Meanwhile, Rogue runs into Wolverine and Jubilee - and they have a little fight. Are you following me? Good! Cause it's going to get crazier from here.

Also, let's keep track of Rogue's clothes because... ooff, yeah, the continuity is worse than the story line.

Uncanny X-Men #279

Before I get into it - I need to state that Uncanny X-Men 279 is the issue where Chris Claremont just up and quit during the middle. He'll be back to wrap up his run in the new X-Men book (that we'll get to after this) but I'm sure the nonsense going on in the X-Office didn't help the clarity of this story...

Anyway, the next time we see either Gambit or Rogue is here... in the next issue. What happened between Rogue and Wolverine/Jubilee? How did Gambit handle Multiple Man? Who knows! But now Gambit is with Wolverine and Jubilee and Rogue is nowhere to be seen.

Also - that's the third 'bang, you dead joke' in, like, five issues. Good lord, Claremont, if this wasn't your final Uncanny issue (for now) I'd say give it a rest. I will say, though, I almost included the entire three pages of Wolverine/Jubilee/Gambit because they are that delicious, and easily the best thing about this entire arc.

Uncanny X-Men #279

On the next page, we see Rogue again - where she is taking on Forge. Note the wardrobe change? Did she have time to add more clothes after her 'fight' with Wolverine? Is any of this making sense yet? No? Okay... onto the X-Factor issue...

X-Factor #69

This is literally the next time we see Rogue - after Forge shoots her with a ray gun that stops the mind control. Did the ray gun just change her outfit as well? Was the previous outfit too evil?? Or was it just that artists Andy Kubert and Whilce Portacio just have zero communication when getting these issues out? (Honestly, I do not blame the artists - I do blame editorial though.)

X-Factor #69

Meanwhile, where is Gambit you ask??

Alright, guys, this is where we're at -- Forge has un-mind controlled Rogue, Wolverine, and Banshee. Meanwhile, Gambit, Psylocke, Jubilee and the Muir Island peeps are still under the Shadow King. And now X-Factor (the original five X-Men - Cyclops, Jean Grey, Iceman, Angel, and Beast) are now involved. All of them are running around the island. Only, it's X-Factor who finds the rest of the mind controlled - not Forge and crew...

Also, in case you'd like me to make it more confusing, Mystique has arrived in disguise (with Nick Fury), while all this mind control is doing wonders for Charles Xavier's son, Legion, who is about to go a little crazy.

Uncanny X-Men #280

Classic cover is classic. Also, Rogue still has more of her clothes! Don't grow too attached to them.

Uncanny X-Men #280

See, I told you not to get too attached to Rogue's clothes. Apparently, when Legion went crazy and caused an explosion, it blew off all her clothes. Miraculously, no one else had this issue. I guess Jean just used her telekinetic powers to keep hers on.

Uncanny X-Men #280

And on the other side of this really not very big island is the B-team. B for brainwashed. Yes - the two teams are going to meet! Yes, a big, huge battle is about to ensue!

Uncanny X-Men #280

Gambit is going to take on Wolverine (for the 100th time it seems) while Rogue will take on Strong Guy. Every non-brainwashed X-Man is going to take on every other brainwashed X-Man. Except for Rogue v Gambit. We don't get to see that. They do not share any panels together. Not even in the big group scenes. None. Nothing. Absolutely zero.

They just knew it'd be too much...

(Honestly, I am a little curious as to why this was. It almost does feel intentional at this point.)

Anyway, the battle ends. The Shadow King is vanquished (for now) -- and has the hilariously villain closing line of "No!!! I WAS SO CLOSE!!" And all that's left is to wrap up this little ditty...

Uncanny X-Men #280

I just need to talk about Rogue's clothes again. Her panties are barely hanging on by a thread, but her gloves are perfectly intact. How convenient.

Anyway, the last line of this comic reads: The End, and The Beginning. How appropriate...

Here we are, guys. The first issue where Rogue and Gambit end up on panel together. Are you ready for this??

Let's talk about X-Factor #70

X-Factor #70

Most of the issue revolves around Xavier trying to get into Legion's head while the rest of the group is either waiting around in the hospital room or tying up loose plot threads around the island.

So... how much time has passed? It's unclear - but enough that Rogue's had enough time to find some clothes that have not been ripped to shreds.

Anyway - one of the loose plot threads is dealing with Mystique's "death" that happened ages ago. Turns out she faked it and had been pretending to be Val Cooper for a while now. Rogue had seen news of the "death" and this is their reunion.

Great, now that that's squared away, we get one of my favorite sequences in comics... the chain letting everyone know that Xavier is okay ;)

X-Factor #70

Idk why, but I love this little sequence. I love the random 'no smoking' sign. I love Gambit freaking Polaris out. I love that Jubilee just does not give a shit. And I love that Rogue doesn't seem to either.

Anyway... now to the moment y'all have been patiently waiting for...

I present to you -- Rogue and Gambit's first on panel moment!

X-Factor #70

It's sort of anticlimactic, isn't it?

While Xavier's - what do we do with fourteen X-Men - is rather iconic, the art here is... meh. I'm so glad Jim Lee is going to redesign a lot of the characters. Gambit just does not look good in the yellow costume (also, he does not have his headsock on here for some reason). Meanwhile, even Rogue looks a little off here (though this is the X-Factor book and not Uncanny).

And... we're left with a bunch of open questions. Just how did Rogue and Gambit meet? What was their first interaction like? What is their dynamic at the very beginning? As I said before -- Kelly Thompson will one day answer these questions -- both brilliantly and unbelievably.

If you were looking for any kind of set up going into the relaunch, I'm sorry to say that what I've laid out for you is what we've got. So, introductions are open to interpretation...

My own version...?

Gambit: *speaking flirtations French to Rogue* Rogue: Wolverine - who is this? Wolverine: Storm brought back some Cajun leftovers from her time as a de-aged thief. Gambit: How about a kiss, chere? Rogue: How about I punch you?

And thus a dynamic was born. ;)

Next up: We're finally going to really get into it with X-Men #1-3!

[pluckyredhead]

For your Fourth World reading do you have a reading order you could share with us? Or recommendations on where to start? Sorry if this has been asked before

No need to apologize! I've been meaning to write up my Fourth World recs so thank you for the reminder. Also it is unfortunately a short list lol.

The Fourth World by Jack Kirby:

Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen: Kirby wrote and drew issues #133-148. This is where he launched the Fourth World, and where we first saw Darkseid and a number of other characters and concepts. It is a little tangential to the main Fourth World storyline (and some of it, like the two Goody Rickels issues, is REALLY weird and not necessarily in a good way). I would say if you are interested in the Fourth World from a comics history perspective, you should read Kirby's Jimmy Olsen, but if you are interested from a blorbo perspective and just want to read about Orion or Scott or whoever, you can skip it.

New Gods (1971): This is Orion's series. An absolute must, this is the heart of the Fourth World. The original run is issues #1-11 (there are a couple series that pick up the numbering, but the first 11 issues are the real deal).

Forever People (1971): I would say this is the other book that is really central to Kirby's magnum opus and the themes he was exploring. Again, less interesting from a blorbo perspective (I'm sure Mark Moonrider is someone's blorbo...) but it's only 11 issues so I would recommend reading it for the historical/thematic value. Do it for Kirby!

Mister Miracle (1971): The other blorbo! Kirby's original run is #1-18.

New Gods (1984) #6: In 1984 DC reprinted the original New Gods run as double-sized issues (so #1 contains the original #1 and #2 from 1971, etc.). Issue #6 reprints the original New Gods #11 and then adds new material to "conclude" Kirby's story. But you'll want to continue and read...

The Hunger Dogs (also called DC Graphic Novel #4): This was Kirby's conclusion to the Fourth World saga. It's not his original vision, but it's the most DC would allow him. He is not quite at the heights he was in 1971, but it's nice to see him get a chance to conclude his tale, and it's a must-read if you ship Orion and Lightray.

The Fourth World by people who aren't Jack Kirby:

New Gods (1991): This is Rachel Pollack's run and it's excellent. The art is extremely 1991 but the writing makes up for it. The last three issues of the series are written and drawn by John Byrne instead, and they're fine - you can read them or skip them, doesn't matter.

Orion (2000): Walt Simonson's run, AN ABSOLUTE MUST-READ. RUN DON'T WALK. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE READ THIS. Orion suffers so much and it's so delicious to me.

Solo #7: There are only two pages of Fourth World content in here but it's Orion betting Scott he can come up with a death trap Scott can't escape and then literally just trying to kill him for fun while Lightray has a panic attack. Orion and Scott are both lunatics and I love that for them. Brothers of all time.

Both of DC's YA graphic novels about these characters, Mister Mircle: The Great Escape by Varian Johnson and Daniel Isles and Barda by @ngoziu, are excellent.

AND UNFORTUNATELY THAT IS IT. Scott and Barda are in JLI which I will always recommend, but it's not strictly speaking a Fourth World book. Orion is in Grant Morrison's JLA which is a classic, but he doesn't have a huge role in it as I recall. You should already be reading Kelly Thompson's current run on Birds of Prey because it's perfect but Barda is especially perfect in it.

The nice (?) thing about the Fourth World is that every writer basically completely ignores all previous writers except Kirby so there's not a lot of continuity to track. If you read Kirby, you can encounter the characters anywhere else and know everything you need to know.

Happy reading!

[blackbatcass]

hii linden! i kinda needed some help

so, i wanna read some comics based on:

donna troy, cass cain and wally west

but i have literally noo idea where to start 😭 ofc ik the basics but i was hoping you could suggest something?? thank you so much if you do and have a wonderful day!

yeah i gotchu!! those are literally my besties lol i can definitely give you some recs. i'm not sure what you'd consider to be the basics so i'll just include all the big stuff to be thorough

donna troy:

first rec is always new teen titans as you probably would have guessed lol. it is a very long and arduous undertaking though so some more specific recs would be vol. 1 #38, #50, vol. 2 #18-21, #50-55.

i've gone into more detail on her appearances in darkstars, green lantern etc but honestly though they are important to understand the status quo & what was going on with her, i don't think they're very good comics to just read for donna. my next rec would probably be wonder woman (1987) #126-136, which is a VERY important arc for her. it goes into more detail on her origin, reconnects her to the amazons & diana, and i believe is where she officially passes on the wonder girl mantle to cassie. and she appears frequently throughout the rest of that wonder woman run after the arc if you want to continue on!

titans (1999) is another big one, beloved beloved comic. lots of good donna content.

titans/young justice: graduation day #1-3 YIKES! unfortunately pivotal to her story lol

dc special: the return of donna troy look. i know I gush about this comic like it's my full time job. but honest to god i adore it to pieces, it's a love letter to donna and her history and it's one of my favorite comics of all time despite only being 4 issues. begging everyone on the planet to read it rn

cass cain:

cass was famously introduced in batman: no man's land! now that event is very very long so it might seem tempting to skip straight to bg 2000 but i'm here to tell you to not do that. if nothing else it is PIVOTAL that you read her introduction issues (mark of cain pts 1 & 2), batman #567 and detective comics #734. probably the coolest most metal introduction of any comics character in history, it's that good. if you're interested in cass's role in nml but not the whole thing, here's a list of her appearances:

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #120

Azrael: Agent of the Bat #56

Azrael: Agent of the Bat #57

Batman Chronicles #18

Batman #569

Detective Comics #738

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #124

Batman: Shadow of the Bat #92

Detective Comics #739

Batman: Shadow of the Bat #93

Azrael: Agent of the Bat #60-61

Detective Comics #741

i think nml is essential reading for cass and it makes me sad that a lot of people skip it.

next is, of course, batgirl (2000). it's her character bible it's god's (kelley puckett's) gift to mankind it's maybe the best comic ever written. what more can i say

she's also a fixture in gotham knights! cass was a part of most batfamily events in the early 2000s, ex. officer down, joker's last laugh, war games, bruce wayne: murderer? and bruce wayne: fugitive. it's pretty easy to find them since they mostly cross over with her batgirl run.

detective comics #790 is only one issue but it's. ough.

aaaaand then we get into the evil cass arc stuff which just sucks and isn't worth it. she's pretty much written out of the story for a while, other than red robin #17 & #25.

she does show up as black bat in gates of gotham! i really enjoy that story, and it's only 5 issues.

that gets us to new52. i would completely disregard her rebirth and batgirls appearances honestly. she is a part of the current birds of prey ongoing! and while i am not kelly thompson's biggest fan i do think she gets a lot of cool moments and for the most part she's done right.

she is also featured sporadically throughout ram v's gotham nocturne storyline (it started way back in detective comics #1062 if you want to read the whole arc, it's VERY good). i have to give a special shoutout to #1084, which has a backup story that's focused on cass and it legitamately blew my mind. like i couldn't believe my eyes when i was reading it, maybe it's because cass has been done so dirty over the years that anything makes me happy but to get a cass-centric story featuring shiva that cares about her as a character in 2024 was crazy 2 me i will rave about it forever. thank you alex paknadel.

wally west:

the good news is my wally reclist is WAY less complicated. as is predictable for me, pretty much the only wally rec I have is flash volume 2 (1987). it is for all intents and purposes The Story of Wally West tm. it's his character bible it follows him throughout nearly a decade of his life. because it's so long my specific rec would be to read waid's run on it, from #62-142. if you want more context to his life at the time you can start earlier in the comic, i think #31 is a good jumping on point if you want to experience some messner-loebs but not too much messner-loebs lmfao.

he's featured in titans (1999) until about issue #20, iirc. wally is just fated to quit titans teams lol. there is some good stuff with him up until that point though!

that is honestly about all i got until you get to more modern flash comics. after rebirth he's reintroduced in flash vol. 5, and #768-800 is the jeremy adams run.

he's also the main focus in si spurrier's flash vol. 6! aka the current flash ongoing. which... as i have often said, i am a big fan of.

AND THAT’S MY LIST!!! i hope it helped you out at least a little lol!