#when that is in no way their canon dynamic and belongs more to jason and reyna | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

kila09 · 10 months ago

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SHIPPER TAG GAME

tagged by @gloster

1. What ship were you completely obsessed with when you were a teenager, but now you don't care anymore?

-not really obsessed, but I'd have to say Nick/Maddie from PR: Mystic Force. I really liked their dynamic and tbh, it was that couple that introduced me to fanfics because I went googling for info on Melanie and Firass

2. Which ship would you consider your first one?

-oh that's an easy one: Tommy/Kim. The moment I saw them on screen, I started shipping them before I even knew what shipping was. They were my OTP before I even knew what that was. Even at that young age, I was taken in by their chemistry, their understanding and acceptance of each other, the slow build up of their relationship...just...their everything. Honestly, it was because of this ship that i could not get into Disney fairytales because they did more to convince me of true love than any Disney movie ever did.

3. Your first fanfic belonged to which couple?

-Tommy/Kimberly. After I learned what fanfic was from searching Maddie/Nick...I stumbled upon a Tommy/Trini story and it didn't sit right with me lol. I kept thinking "Tommy and Kim are meant to be" and then I started writing a story about them. Took my weeks, after I'd written the first seven chapters, to work up my courage to actually post that first chapter.

4. Do you remember the first couple you saw a fanart over?

-more than likely Nick and Maddie.

5. Did you ever get into ship discourse?

-uhm....I mean, not really? I've responded to one or two anon posts or even made a post or two about a ship but actual discourse? I usually have those discussions with my friend

6. Did you used to have a NOTP or have it currently?

-ha! Did I ever! And still do: Kataang, Klance, Hinny, McRolls, Tommy/Kat, Jason/Kim, Dramione, Romione.

7. Who were the couple in the last fanfic you read?

-well, I'm currently reading three fanfics right now, so the couple in those are: Zutara, Tododeku, KinnPorsche

8. Currently, do you have any OTPs?

-ohh yeah: Tomberly, Drarry, Sheith, Zutara, KinnPorsche, Tododeku, DickKory, Geraskier

9. Is there any couple, to this day, you are extremely mad about not getting together?

-yes. I'm pissed they broke Kim and Tommy (rumor was, the letter wasn't even the original storyline but they did it because they wanted the fans to let go of Kimberly and accept Kat); Sheith (they had the best chemistry and the show kept drawing parallels between them and other couples on the show, including Keith's own parents); Zutara (they just made sense and I think Katara would've really blossomed even more because Zuko never would've stifled her or encourage to forego her own culture); Drarry (sure as shit, if one of them was female, it would've happen, so I don't see why it couldn't happen anyways. Plus, I feel they would've understood and balanced each other a lot better than their Canon couples).

10. Is there any ship you used to dislike but now you think they are kind of interesting?

-nope.

11. Do you have any ship that, in the past, was considered normal but now would be canceled over?

-i dont think so, no.

12. What was your favorite crack ship?

-i don't think I had or have one tbh.that.

13. Who is the couple you read more fanfics of?

-its split btwn most of my OTPs tbh.

14. What do most of your ships usually have in common?

-hmmm...idk, equality, I guess. The way they understand each other, how they are each others safe space in a way, how they can be themselves (all facets of themselves, e.g., angry, happy, messy, etc.) with each other, the way they're different but also the same in some ways

15. What do you absolutely hate in a ship?

-a bully/victim dynamic that is labeled as enemies-to-lovers; when a miscommunication happens and the person immediately runs away/avoids the other without giving them a chance to explain, which leads into the miscommunication going on for more than 2-3 chapters (even worse when it's a 15 chapter story and the miscommunication happened in like ch 2 and you're on ch 12 and it...is...still...going on)

Tagging: @tomberlylove, @the-badger-mole, @moerusai, @teamironmanforever, @luckydragon10, @ink-and-dagger, @mymcdanno, @angstosaur

#shipper game #ask and answered #mcdanno #kinnporsche #tomberly #zutara #drarry #tododeku

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happyk44 · 2 years ago

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#THE TAGS YES YES YES THIS IS SOOO SMART#I AM SO INTO THIS #I’m planning a rewrite and i have piper as a daughter of eros! #and in my head she’s given the option of either staying with the ares cabin or the aphrodite cabin (while the eros cabin gets built ig) #and i kinda forget that pluto/hades borders the minor and major gods since hades is one of the big three but not rly on the olympian council #but also i feel like bc hazel is also favored by hecate or whatever #she’s also on the border between minor and major gods in that way?

#leo and frank i havent considered as much #for frank im fsr SOOOOO attached to the fun little dynamic of having mars and ares warring in his head in SoN #but i also feel like bellona or honos or nerio or victoria or virtus would be fun options!!!! #and like. generally i ignore the whole ‘kidnapping nike’ thing bc yeah i ignore a lot of things in HoO including much of BoO #but imagine frank kidnapping his own mom. im sorry im just. JSBSKSBSJS dying of laughter over here in the corner

#however leo. ohmygod ive never even really considered another idea for a godly parent for leo but PROMETHEUS. YEAH!!! #we’d have our first demititan!!! and since tlh is only a few months after tlo it would show how affected the demigods at chb are by the war #bc rather than the love and acceptance and family that leo is shown in canon when he’s claimed by hephaestus

#he’s going to be met with distrust and hostility (and possibly people saying he was in the titan army or that he doesn’t belong at chb) #and i think not only would that be a really cool thing for his character with prometheus’s role as the creator of humankind #but also over the months between tlh and moa. as he learns to trust himself and his fire powers chb begins to trust him more and more

#wait sorry im back again i have more thoughts #ignoring my idea of the ares and aphrodite cabins sharing custody of piper #i feel like it could also be vv fun if they were both forced to stay in the hermes cabin #the hermes cabin was probably the most affected by luke’s betrayal and it would be interesting to see how they’d react to demititan leo

#idk even if piper still stays in the ares cabin or the aphrodite cabin we’d still end up getting two very different looks at how chb #has been affected by the titan war. bc the aphrodite cabin is still probably dealing with silena’s betrayal. clarisse is probably #still dealing with losing silena and possibly thinking it’s her fault. the ares kids might have beef about the war in general and the fact #that silena pretended to be clarisse to get them to help and then died a ‘hero’ despite being the spy

#i feel like seeing the difference between ares and aphrodite cabins in their reaction to silena and the battle of manhattan would be vv fun #also just. imagine piper having to deal with reporters and stuff trying to pry and figure out who her mom was #and it turns out she’s got two dads. i wonder how tristan remembers/justifies it???

#also LEO LEO LEO DEMITITAN LEO#i have soooo much beef with caleo but. i do like the idea of them becoming friends ok #and i do like the idea of leo promising he’d come back for calypso bc he recognizes the lack of autonomy she has in her situation on ogygia #and it reminds him of the lack of autonomy he had in foster care and wants to help her the same way he wishes someone had done for him #and i feel like there’s even more of a connection there when you consider that they both have a titan for a parent #and that makes people think they’re untrustworthy. that’s why calypso is trapped on the island. i feel like drawing that parallel between

#calypso and leo and their situations would be sooo compelling #also there are other roman gods related to prophecy and if it weren’t for octavian’s actions somewhat being a catalyst for toa #then i would say he should be a descendant of carmenta or something instead of apollo via @heartsick-stranger

I love the idea of Jason being mistaken for a child of Jupiter because of his relationship to Thalia (if they're still related) and his lightning powers, being trained by wolves and sent to camp where they realize somehow, oh, wait, he’s just some other god’s kid, nevermind, and that blow off pushes him even further to prove himself and that he is capable of leading a cohort, and later camp, and the pressure of being the best becomes a self-inflicted thing rather than something that was foisted on him. It would also create a parallel with Luke, and give greater agency to his rivalry with Percy because he worked hard to prove himself a child of a minor god but Percy just walked in and had leadership handed to him. It also can still maintain Jason's arc of shedding leadership responsibilities and becoming his own person, even if it's something he chose because Jason's core value is not wanting to let people down and that doesn't change whether the charge of being leader was a decision he made for himself or something he was pushed into it.

But also! HoO would've made much more sense if Piper and Leo and Frank were not children of Olympians. We know that 1) the big three have the tastiest scents to monsters which is why many of them don't live very long, 2) the other Olympian kids have very noticeable scents as well which makes living on the outside difficult and 3) children of minor gods are implied (if not outright stated) to have some trouble living outside of camp but they don't attract monsters as much. There's no way that monsters would’ve left Leo, Piper and Frank alone for so long, especially with the extra powers that they have, unless they were the children of minor gods (or a Titan).

You could make an argument about Frank living in Canada, or something about how his scent is confusing to monsters because he has so much tacked onto him from other pantheons. But I mean even Percy was talking about wrestling snakes to death as a toddler and other weird “mishaps” that had happened to him in childhood. We get zero implication of the same for the three stated above. I mean arguably Piper/Frank should’ve run into a bunch of monsters because they never moved around and so it was like a smoke signal to monsters vs Leo’s constantly moving tracking pad (but even he should’ve run into something, right?)

PJO: we need to recognize the value of the minor gods. The Olympians are important, sure, but the minor gods do a lot of work in maintaining and assisting the pantheon, have their own kids and deserve to be seen and valued just as much

HoO: Back at it again with Olympian-only nonsense!

#additions to my posts #happy talks pjo

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gilbirda · 2 years ago

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Just a little thing that the DPxDC community doesn't explore much is the Cass x Danny. By the way they are portrayed, she is quiet and reserved introvert girl, that keeps to herself, and he is an explosive extrovert when you get to know him.

Since I'm a sucker for dynamics that are not used as much as the others, I think this is something fun to explore (maybe I'm just dumb and I'm missing a ton of content).

I can imagine it going like this: he is a regional manager for Nasty Burger as a harmless way to satiate Vlad's obsession with him (Nasty Burger belongs to Vlad in canon, and sometimes, Danny deserves to not have a fucked up life anymore), he meets with Cass and the two hook up (both can't explain, but can use the Lazarus pit = ectoplasm head canon).

These are the reactions of the members of the batfamily:

Barbara: she is protective of both Steph and Cass, and does a background check on Danny, but doesn't find any dirty on him (thanks Tucker), after that, she relax and observes the cute couple from her network;

Bruce and Alfred: both are relieved after Barbara's report, and are happy that Cass is now openly smiling and laughing more, it's not like she was unhappy with them, but seeing her in love is reassuring;

Selina and Tim: both are making fun of Bruce, since Danny has black hair and blue eyes, and is dating a member of the batfamily, they are saying to not make Danny the Steph 2.0;

Damian: he liked Danny because all the animals in the manor loved him at first sight, so he can't be a bad guy, but he starts to respect Danny when he discovered that he helped a gorilla species in the brink of extinction to survive;

Duke: he knows that there is SOMETHING with Danny, but he knows that metas in Gotham have to hide themselves from the wrong assumption that Batman hates metas;

Dick and Jason: they thought of doing a good cop/bad cop routine in order see what are the intentions of this guy with their younger sister, but seeing that he has MORE puns than Dick, MORE dead jokes than Jason, and is MORE SASSIER than Steph, Jason is like "fuck this shit I'm out", and Dick is best buddies with the guy

Steph: she hates his guts, not because his is dating Cass, but because he has the audacity of saying that the Nasty Burger is BETTER than the Batburger, her favorite fast food chain, she can't believe that Cass has fallen in love with the enemy.

Other thing: he can't hide forever his powers, so someday, maybe, they are on a date and a random villain attacks, and not wanting his cute and shy girlfriend to be hurt, Danny beat the shit out of this guy, and Cassandra sees her boyfriend tanking several bullets unharmed, punching people away to ridiculous distances, and maybe FLY a little bit?

Danny is freaked out, because he thinks Batman hates metas, but Cass says that her father knows Batman, and can help clear him.

Now Bruce asks Clark if he is aware of this black hair, blue eyes dude, with some powers really similar to Kryptonians that it is currently dating his daughter (all of the JLD knows that Danny is the Ghost King, but understand why the guy is frightened of Batman, so it is kinda funny when they meet, Constantine can't hold his laughter at the image of a Bruce being the father in law of the powerful monarch of the infinite realms, using ridiculous nobility titles to refer to him)

-------------------

Wow, what a long ramble, hope you like this little contribution the community

No words from my part, anon!

Putting this out there so people can add to it!!

🤗

#gil answers #dead silent ship #cassxdanny #cass/danny #dpxdc #dp x dc #dc x dp #danny phantom #cassandra cain #yeah im so out of spoons today and it shows #but i cant just have these abandoned in my inbox anymore

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redjaybathood · 2 years ago

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No Tim AU, Steph filling his narrative role/roles.

1) so, first of all, I feel like Steph wouldn't approach Bruce Wayne, even if she knew his identity. She wouldn't take it upon herself to make sure a grieving man doesn't kill someone or himself. For that reason, I don't hc that she would have approached Batman to save him from darkness or whatever.

She has an objective: put Cluemaster where he belongs.

So it could go one of these ways: either Batman sees her and decides to help her like he did with Jason. But he's not in the mood for that, right? He would have rather tried to scare her away.

Or she would have tried to strike a deal with him to partner to take down Cluemaster. Also not very likely - why don't go to Huntress then, at least she is not going Batshit?

No, let's assume they met on the job and Steph was the one helping Bruce out. So he can't go all "it's too dangerous for you" - without her he would be toast! Whereas she was fine all along.

I think I would want them to have some degree of animosity. Like. Bruce subconsciously angry at her for saving him. Yes, bc low-key suicidal, but also bc anger is often stemming from fear. And Bruce is getting major flashbacks to Jason.

And Steph is not very happy with him either! He's her childhood hero, right. But he's also a douche towards her. For no reason. And, like. Robin's gone but it's not like it's the first time. She doesn't think he's dead, necessarily. She might have say something about Robin leaving him because he's an asshole.

2) So, like. They are enemies at first. But then Steph does find out about what happened to Robin - let's say Joker auctions Robin's skull (put it earlier in the timeline but not too early). And she investigates what happened to Robin - by the way, that's how she finds out Bruce's identity - and, just. This explains so much. So much.

Meanwhile, Bruce sees more of Steph in action - and her home life. He understands that she needs this, and that she genuinely tries to do good. And while she does put herself in danger, she is in no less danger without a suit. What really can protect her, however, is better training, better armour, and... A partner who has his shit together. So Bruce gets his shit together.

There's a very touching scene where they apologize to each other. Bruce is the one who offers partnership.

(this also makes it easier for me to digest: it's not Robin taking upon himself to fix Batman, it's Batman taking responsibility to fix himself so he can protect a child, which is how it should be; I dunno, maybe it's how it really happened in canon? I don't read much of Tim's Robin run but Lonely place of dying and some others, really put out the opposite vibe)

3) Based on this, Batman doesn't badmouth Jason. Doesn't try to "you're just like Jason, you will end up like him". He's like: I know why you're doing this. And I know you want to do good. But that's what killed Jason. You need to be careful.

4) Does Steph end up pregnant here as well? I dunno. This storyline is a mixed bag for me. I would say, yes? But she gets an abortion instead of carrying to term and giving it up for adoption. Both Crystal and Bruce are her support system. When Crystal says it's not her fault, it's good but she's her mom, right? That's what she's supposed to say. But I want Bruce to say it as well. And maybe beat Dean up.

5) Steph also trains with Huntress, Oracle, Black Canary, and Nightwing. Nightwing reacts negatively at first but comes around when he gets to know her better. I don't have a good grip on Azrael, though, so I don't know what their dynamic would look like, though.

Anyway. Dick is the one who passes Steph Robin suit, maybe on the anniversary of Jason's death. Because he wants Robin to live and give Gotham kids someone to look up to, and she fits the bill to a T. And he's sure Jason would think the same.

6) You can use "Robin's parent finds out that Robin is Robin and blackmails them into quitting" with Cluemaster. But he doesn't necessarily finds out Bruce's identity, just threatens to expose Steph. Maybe he even does it anyway, to Black Mask, during War Games, which didn't start because of the meeting Steph called. Like. There was a meeting. And there was a shoot-out. But she's not involved.

Look, the meeting was Franz Ferdinand assassination. The war would have happened regardless.

If you absolutely need to make Jason a bad guy who doesn't care about the collateral damage, you bring him back early - here. He's the one who organized meeting. And he knew the consequences and made that choice consciously. You can even make him the winner of these Battle Royal by killing Black Mask (saving Steph in the process) and taking over his empire.

But I think it's enough for Black Mask to be the guy behind the curtain. Although I do think that Bruce getting paranoid someone leaked/used his plan would be a thing here. And I would still want to use Jason to kill Black Mask in the end, save Stephanie, and take over the city. He just got back too late to stop this from happening entirely. And he uses it to drive his point: see what happens when you don't kill the killers? They kill kids in schools and kindergartens! He almost kill another one of your Robins, don't you care?

And Steph is like. Very mixed feelings about this. Because it was a mistake on her part to let Black Mask go. She almost got killed. And yes, the gang war was orchestrated by Sionis and so many civilians died! However. Jason basically becomes new Sionis now. His hands are not too bloody yet. But you can't ethically run a criminal empire. You can't ethically run a business empire in the US, more or less. (Well, you can, but most giants are not, in fact, doing this) So this basically cements her further attitude towards the issue of killing. Like: it's a maybe on killing but a hard no on becoming a criminal herself.

7) so, as we need Arthur to sell Steph out to Black Mask, he dies - is killed - later. Maybe right after the War games. And Steph is the one with the best motive. However, Steph herself suspects that it's Batman trying to protect her.

It's Red Hood (at this point he did not reveal his identity yet; he genuinely thinks he did the right thing here, though, and he not as much frames Batman as he... Play acts Batman going over the line to protect his Robin, because that's what he would have wanted to. With this, the gestalt is closed for him - good thing, because Joker here died off screen in the midst of War Games - Jason bagged him in Los Angeles, and that's why he was too late to Gotham. Which he also blames himself. So he kills Cluemaster while wearing Batman suit to get closure and moves on. So for a long time nobody knows his real identity although it's hinted often that he's someone we seen before.

8) Yes, I've said before that you can't run a criminal empire ethically. However, Red Hood does a decent enough job. Think Orpheus but large scale and organized crime. The philosophy behind it is the same.

So here's the question Steph faces: she does opposes what Red Hood does, but can she take responsibility for everything that would happen after she takes him out (throws him in prison)? Because it would end up another war for territory.

But mostly, I want Red Hood to become kinda background character. Like, everything eventually leads to him but he avoids any direct confrontation, and he never goes out to make their lives harder. They even could cooperate on some cases.

It all comes to face with the Court of Owls arc where Steph is going to be directly Targeted. And Red Hood too, although differently. Court wants Steph to become a Talon. Court wants Red Hood dead. D E A D. Because he threatens, blackmails, kills, or run out of town the corrupt officials and politicians, to do his bidding. Some of these people work for Court, some of them are the Court.

The only way out of this is to just. Take the court out. Steph and Red Hood work together on this. Red Hood suggest gathering them in one place and blowing them up. Steph instead challenges him to use the evidence of corruption and other crimes he gathered on all of them to put them in jail. But this would damage Red Hood operations severely and he would be a target number one for police as well, after the Court is arrested. She says she doesn't think he would do it, he's too selfish for that despite his grandstanding. And he says, okay. Let's do it.

Joke on Steph, because when Red Hood turns himself in, while he doesn't do it under his real name, but Bruce and the others recognize him. Only they can't do anything because he's promptly swept into protective custody. There's an attempt on his life at some point, though, so he escapes, but that's later. He becomes an Outlaw.

Anyway. The case of Court of Owls showed citizens that Gotham had serious need for reforms, re-elections, and systematic changes. And they demand it. And they get some of it, it's an uphill battle.

So... If you eliminate homelessness, create enough jobs with a living wage, you eradicate like half of the reasons people do crime. It still going to be there, but it won't be as prominent.

You can get more storylines about corporate greed, about landlords who sabotage free or affordable housing projects, about voting fraud... Something like this, something based in consequences of what happened previously.

9) by the time Damian shows up, Gotham didn't magically fix itself, but it's on the way there. Less gang activity, for one. Still, there's work to do, because some crime are not economical in nature.

Steph gives Damian the mantle when she sees that the kid needs it. Needs someone to tell him: hey. I know you're capable of doing good. I believe in you. Your parents, grandparents, whoever, don't define you, their expectations don't matter. Take this suit if you, yourself, want it. And Damian does.

Bruce dies, right? And Cass becomes Batman, Steph becomes Batgirl, Damian becomes Robin.

10) At some point in the future, when Dick loses his memories, Steph becomes Nightwing so Bludhaven had its protector while he's getting better.

Although, as there's no Court of Owls anymore and no Joker, it goes easier for Dick to recover. But maybe he takes that opportunity to go to Titans, mentor the new generation of heroes, he's good at that. So there's two Nightwings. Look, if DC can have two Robins (ugh) at the same time for like. Ten years. Why not two Nightwings?

That's my thoughts on that. Not exactly what you asked but the bed I could do.

#asks game #that's a bit more than five but #Stephanie Brown

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stxleslyds · 3 years ago

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You always seem down on the idea of the Batfam. I mean, it is hard to take seriously when writers make Bruce hostile or downright abusive towards his kids, or when Batfam members never interact. But do you think the concept itself is good, and it's just been the victim of bad writing? Or do you think the Batfam is a bad idea that can never work?

Hi there Anon! Thank you for the ask!

Hmm, this is a difficult question. Maybe I can answer this better if I do it in parts because the concept of “Batfamily” is used in different ways currently. A way to separate them can be, DC’s Batfamily, Fandom’s Batfamily and Fandom’s Batfamily lore being introduced in comics’ canon.

DC’s Batfamily:

My rejection of this version of Batfamily comes from all angles, it is not a good concept within comics lore anymore, it’s badly written and used to hide and move on from truly horrendous actions done by Bruce towards the rest of the family, and DC uses the concept of “Batfamily” that fandom has become so attached to, so they can profit off of it without writing anything of real essence with it.

Why did I say that the Batfamily isn’t a good concept anymore? Well, because the Batfamily that I first came across in comics included, Bruce, Dick, Alfred, Barbara, Tim and Cassandra. It was rather small and their books interconnected and had pretty solid relationships with one another. Dick and Tim got along and spent time together, Barbara mentored Cass so she could become Batgirl and so on and so forth. The family was smaller and more connected. But they still had problems and bad habits then. So, I liked them as a group of people that worked together and the name they received was “Batfamily” as a way for DC to profit from it.

Right now, the Batfamily is huge, I don’t know if you have seen those splash pages with all the members of it for Rebirth and Infinite Frontier, but those promotional pages were crazy big, characters like Harley and Clownhunter are now considered part of the “Batfamily” and all that. Then there is the kind of characters like Cass, Steph and Kate who are all connected to Batman but that haven’t been appearing in books for very long, so putting them on that page really feels like DC is trying to prove that their “Batfamily” actually has women on it, but it’s just for show.

And then there is Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian, the most recognizable faces of the Batfamily aside from Bruce and Alfred (but Alfred is dead now so he doesn’t really count), all of them have had issues with Bruce or are indifferent to the existence of one another. Yes, Tom Taylor has included Tim in Dick’s book but here is the thing, it feels like he put him there just to make fans shut up about the lack of content with both of them acting as they used to do. But its false and lazy, Taylor just brought Tim to the book but we don’t get to see Tim and Dick interact in ways that can explain why they drifted off, it kinda seems like all those years where Dick and Tim were pulled apart never happened to DC and that makes me think “cash grab”. I would have loved to see them interact again if it meant that we would have some solid story for them to develop their relationship once more.

At the end of Rebirth, Damian was pissed off at Bruce and they had a fight and Damian left the manor completely. Bruce beat up Jason, then gave him a hug but still told him that he was banned from Gotham and all that abuse and manipulation was swept under the rug when DC came out with Urban Legends: Cheer, all they did with that story is lie and made-up stories about Jason wanting Bruce to go on a killing spree so Gotham can finally be the home to his beloved family (lies, lies, lies).

On top of all that we have the neglect, abuse and manipulation that Bruce had going on with Dick, ever since Bruce manipulated Dick into joining Spyral his actions haven’t faced any consequences (the family still believes that Dick was the one who lied about dying). And as recently as the end of Rebirth, Dick suffered from a head injury that left him amnesiac and Bruce absolutely didn’t care enough to look after him when he was so vulnerable and alone. DC had the audacity of having Bruce say that he was looking after Dick while Dick went from one villain manipulating and hurting him to another, and if we look at Batman’s run, we can see that he spent some of that time in a weird pit or playing catch the pussy with Selina in a tropical island.

So, taking all those things into account, I honestly believe that the Batfamily is a concept that absolutely does not belong in comics. If it were to be taken seriously then DC should come up with (organic, not forced) stories that make these characters connect once again, but they have to be careful, just because they can connect it doesn’t mean that everyone gets along and they have group chats and eat dinner together of Fridays, that would be a blatant lie and just too out there for their kind of dynamic, so, they should take things slow, start re-building what once was an make it better (if they want to make it work and feel like less of a cash grab).

I heard that there is a book with Cass and Steph being mentored as Batgirls by Barbara coming out in December, that to me is a good thing, what was done in Robin #5 was awful, Jason didn’t have or want to be there, Tim, what the hell was Tim doing there? The only ones that have gotten along with Damian and have had a solid relationship with him were Dick and Steph. Dick had a very nice moment with Damian in that issue, but Steph didn’t, they preferred to have Jason wanting to hug Damian instead (what the actual hell was that?).

Fandom’s Batfamily:

Fandom is a place where people can take any concept from anywhere and transform it into whatever they please. This fandom is just like any other in that matter, but I have noticed that sometimes the Batfamily Fandom tends to blur the lines between what’s fanon and canon. Their lore is so deep and established among people that they sometimes (willingly or not) make new readers or other people believe that how things and perceived in fandom is how things actually are in comics, and that is a huge problem.

Things like “Dick sent Jason to Arkham when the Joker was just a cell away”, “Jason has pit madness and when he gets mad his eyes turn glowy green”, “Dick was a horrendous brother to Jason before Jason died”, “Jason would be good friends with Tim and Cass”, “Jason is the only one that sees the world differently from Bruce and the other robins because he is the only one that comes from a life with no luxury” and so on and on and on…

All of those things are sometimes treated as the absolute truth by fandom and no matter how many times people have debunked and explained that those things aren’t part of comics’ canon because they are simply not true, fandom stills treats those things as the basis of their Batfamily lore.

That lore would be actually fascinating if people didn’t lose sight so easily of the fact that at the end of the day none of that lore can be applied to comics’ canon.

When you enter this fandom things can be extremely confusing and the way some of the characters are characterized are completely different to their canon characterizations, I knew that the Dick fandom was writing about was not real, but I had no idea that Tim being a coffee addict that hasn’t slept in five months and is an absolute genius in everything and anything that he does was completely out of character for him, I just thought that was true to his character in comics too. Something like that happened to me when I took a peek at Jason’s side of fandom, by that time I had read Red Hood/Arsenal, UtRH and New 52 RHatO (yeah in that order, Red Hood/Arsenal wasn’t finished yet though), with the already conflicting characterizations of those books, the first look that I had at fandom’s Jason confused me even more. After considering all those I decided that the Jason that I wanted to see and actually looked appealing to me was UtRH Jason.

Not all people in fandom read comics and that is ABSOLUTELY VALID, I have zero problems with people not liking the comic characterizations of the “Batfamily” characters, but that in itself also creates a rift between fans themselves.

Fandom’s Batfamily lore being introduced in comics’ canon:

This is obviously the intersection of the other two points and this is the biggest problem that I have with the Batfamily concept. The fandom lore has been leaking into comic’s canon for a while now but right now we are kinda drowning in it. Decisions that have been made recently in DC like, Jason giving up his guns, the group chats in Nightwing issues, the family dinners that were hinted at in Cheer #6, and Bruce having had at the ready a Red Hood suit for Jason with a Batman logo in its chest, have been proof enough that DC is planning on skipping any kind of solid writing for these characters to actually get along. We are never going to see these people sit down and talk about their differences and respect each other’s work ethics.

We are never going to get stories of actual essence that prove that these characters understand and care for each other, we are just going to be told that “all is good” and now everyone loves one another and they will build from there.

That is a problem for me.

And it also takes away duality from Gotham’s vigilantes, I know I say this too much but it’s the truth, putting all these characters under the ruling of Batman makes them all bland. Jason shouldn’t be part of any sort of group that involves Bruce! My god, I don’t want to see them interact anymore! Bruce has been absolute trash to Jason ever since he came back from the dead and I am tired of DC trying to make them be on good terms!

Jason and Bruce not getting along can co-exist with the fact that Jason isn’t a villain to Batman’s legendary hero. Jason is his own character, with his own morals and he doesn’t need a bat symbol on his chest or book logo to be relevant. Same with Dick, Tim and Barbara, let them be characters that can stand on their own because they have already done that!

Barbara as Oracle worked WITH Batman if she wanted, she had her own logo and had passed on the mantle of Batgirl because he had grown out of it.

Dick is Nightwing and has become an even better hero than Batman could even aspire to become, he has contacts with everyone in the DC universe, has led countless teams, he doesn’t NEED a batman logo on his book or to be constantly dragged back to him just to make the Bat more compelling.

Jason, my sweet Jason, he had his own logo! It was gorgeous and then Lobdell had the audacity to stamp a Batman logo in the middle of the book name and in Jason’s chest! Have we gone absolutely mad? Why did they do that? Lobdell’s constant back and forth with Jason and his feelings for Bruce, he respects him and he doesn’t, he kills and he doesn’t… each issue felt like a new take on the character! It was crazy!

And that has happened with everyone in the “family”. I will end this by saying that Bruce/Batman being at the centre of this “Batfamily” dynamic is the most laughable thing in the DC Universe. Batman isn’t family to any of the people that they constantly surround him with, he is a piece of shit.

Anyway Anon, I hope this answer doesn’t ruin your day and that you understand that even though I really don’t like the “Batfamily” concept, you and everyone else are allowed and encouraged to think differently!

Hope you have a marvellous day Anon!

#jason todd #red hood #dick grayson #nightwing #tim drake #damian wayne #batfamily #batfam #dc comics #asksss

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incoherentbabblings · 3 years ago

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Hi!

I love your content, your love for TimSteph, and I was actually going to ask what you love so much about them. I, for extra credit for English, decided to write an analysis of Stephanie (and why I love her so much), but I just got into comics, and cannot really put my feelings for her in words ... which is odd, considering how much I love her and writing. Also, I was going to do a section on why TimSteph is narrative genius, and I needed help elaborating on that too.

Could you help me out, please? Thanks!

(I feel the need to mention that I have read quite a lot of comics with Stephanie in them, though not all. I'm not much of a comic book fan, but I'm really interested in the Batfamily!)

I'll be very happy to write out bullet points that you could talk about, and feel free to go through my ask and I'll babble/TimSteph meta tags for anything that you think may be worth discussing in your own words - there's like four or so years of stuff there to spark your brain.

HOWEVER!!!! Keep in mind though that much of what I have written is half based on textual evidence and half me just writing what I like/wish would crop up in canon.

For example, yes I like to draw comparisons between Tim being cold and Steph being warm, moon and sun and so on, but there's genuinely nothing in text to hint as this being an actual character trait or symbolism. If anything Tim's stated to be warm several times, more than Steph.

So, and I am sorry to be so blunt, but if I take your request in bad faith for a moment, don't use either directly or indirectly what I've written for your work. Especially without actually going and reading the arcs I talk about. A lot of the time it doesn't hold up under genuine textual scrutiny, and we want to be good academics here! There's Death of the Author and then there's me making crap up because I want to include it in a fanfic. Not the same thing! My blog is called IncoherentBabblings for a reason after all!

I will therefore say this: If you want to write about Steph as a character, I would use the below video as a point of reference. Using the below, you can then go into why she resonates with you the way she does, or why her relationship with Tim is so interesting to you.

youtube

If I were you: focus on her dynamic character development: cynical to idealistic. And use three points in her publication history to do this: her introduction in Detective Comics, War Games, and Batgirl. I am sorry to recommend War Games as something to read but it is important to her character. Use the Stephanie Brown Wiki to help!

That lends itself to a biography of her character, a look at her motivations and values, her role within the batfam, and so on. You can also use this to make comparisons with her peers, specifically Tim moving in the exact opposite direction development wise; Babs and Cass in their approaches to Batgirl; and the other Robins through her similar character progression as Dick, which in turn allows her to be a good mentor to Damian, and finally how her character arc runs perpendicular to Jason's. Does that make sense?

Anyway, let's get going! If I were to write an academic piece on Stephanie, these are the main points I would work through. In other words, this is what I would do. You probably will not need nor want to go into this level of depth, and you will want to make it much more personal about why she resonates with you, which may be different to why I love her. So don't worry about touching base with all of them. This is like... 10,000 word essay level stuff. And don't get overwhelmed. I've taken your request far too seriously is all.

Again, I can't write it for you! You gotta do the reading and writing I'm afraid.

...But I still wrote 1,500 words anyway. Gosh darnnit.

Steph’s Character Development

Always keep three points in her character history in mind – her aged 14/15 in her introductory arc in Detective Comics, her aged 16 in War Games, and her aged 18/19 in her Batgirl run.

How does she change? How does she grow as a character? What events caused these changes? Compare that angry 14-year-old trying to choke her father, to the 19-year-old crying happily on the roof. A lot happened between those two points! Outline the main plot beats.

Steph's Role as a Batfam Character:

Protagonist or Antagonist: Supporting Protagonist

Static or Dynamic: Dynamic (think of her character development - angry to alturistic; she softens in her life outlook and in the way she treats others as the years go by)

Minor or Major: Minor and we all mourn that fact :(

Foil or Symbolic: A foil to Tim Drake (and to a lesser extent the other Robins, specifically Jason Todd)

Importance of the character/Position in Society: Fourth Robin, third Batgirl, own superhero. Tim's girlfriend, Cassandra's best friend, one of many of Bruce's 'children'. Initially introduced just as a one-off character for a small arc in Detective Comics, brought back with the intention of being a supporting character to Tim Drake, and eventual love interest. Eventually gained enough popularity on her own terms to support her own solo comic, but has since returned to a supporting role. The character she supports, at the end of the day, is Bruce Wayne.

Motivation

What influences their decisions?: Stephanie's dynamic characterisation comes in here. Compare her motivations during her introductory arc, versus why she does what she does in War Games, versus why she dresses up at Batgirl - Stopping her father, getting Batman's approval, need for redemption.

What do they value?: Values emotional openness, vulnerability, second/third/fourth chances.

Goals/Hopes/Dreams: No long term goals/hopes/dreams in the domestic sense... Continue to be vigilante. Be respected by her peers. Continue to improve self worth through deeds. Graduate college?

What are their views: Views the justice system and police as corrupt, but still trusts in the inherent goodness of people. Focus is usually on the individual, rather than societal or structural.

Actions

Behaviour, Attitudes, Impact on Story and other Characters, Internal Struggle (Wants versus Needs): This is why I think you are best to look at three points in her story - Intro Arc, War Games, Batgirl. Focus on her Wants versus Needs - Steph's take a very long time to align, but they finally do in Batgirl.

Character development is usually driven by the conflict between what a character wants. The plot forces them normally to confront the fact that what they want is not gonna work out, and what they needed instead takes priority.

Everything usually goes tits up for Steph when she is in the driver's seat of the narrative because what she wants from a situation is rarely what she actually needs to happen. See every time she seeks Bruce's approval. She wants it. She absolutely does not need it. And only as Batgirl do we get that acknowledgement, which coincides with her being at the healthiest point in her life emotionally. Look at what she wants as Spoiler during her introductory arc, as Robin/Spoiler during War Games, and then as Batgirl. Why is she so unhappy in the former two? Why have her wants finally aligned with her needs with her time as Batgirl?

Character Traits

Personality: Cynical but perky. Sardonic but sincere. Think about how she changes over the time. This can be attributed to her different writers, but - for example - is there a universe reason for why Batgirl Stephanie is so much more socially awkward than Spoiler Stephanie?

Strengths & Weaknesses: Link these two together because Steph is a very good example where her strengths as a character can simultaneously be a weakness. Her determination can lead to her making ill conceived decisions. Her empathy can lead to her putting her trust in the wrong people. Her forgiving nature can lead to her being taken advantage of. Her temper, whilst landing her in hot water, can also just as often get her out of it.

Relationships

How do they interact with others: Focus on which characters pop up in all three arcs – Steph and her parents; Steph and Bruce; Steph and Tim. I am chucking Cass out the window here, sorry Cass, but if you’re focusing on these three arcs, Cass doesn’t really fit in.

How others view them: Conditional love/affection from her father and Bruce. Unconditional love/affection from Tim and her mother (though both are not without serious pitfalls).

How they view others: Stephanie has explicitly never loved her father. She has also never explicitly hated him either. What does that say about her? Look at her changing closeness with her mother. What changed between them, and again, what does that say about Stephanie? Crystal got sober, supported Stephanie through her pregnancy, Arthur was removed from their lives, Stephanie makes a conscious effort to be closer to her after returning ‘from the dead’, though continues to lie consistently to her. Stephanie admires Bruce, whilst also right from the get go insisting she does not answer to him. She never quite lets go of wanting that approval.

How does society view them: Her outsider role within the Batfam. She never quite belongs, and at points her closest relationships are actively discouraged from seeing her. Which Tim specifically never entertains. This outsider nature bites literally everyone in the butt during War Games. Her outsider status is still in place by the time Batgirl concludes, due to its largely self-contained nature as a book, but this is less being an outsider more having earned to right to operate independently. Trust has been given and earned.

Dialogue

What does she say and how: A teenage girl in New Jersey from a working class background has a very distinct voice. She does not mince words, nor does she hide what she is feeling. If she is happy, she will say so. If she is annoyed, she will say so. What she won’t do is ask for help when she needs it, due to her background formulating a need for her ‘to do things on her own’.

Think of famous/important Steph quotes from the three arcs I keep talking about – the excuse me if I don’t jump when you bark, the I really was part of the legend, the only variable you can control is yourself. These show how Steph views others and herself.

When I was writing I Would Have Loved You, I literally made a spreadsheet where I have picked out what I think are pertinent quotes from every New 52 issue featuring Tim or Steph along with a synopsis that explained what they were up to/what the main theme of the issue was. Not saying you should do the same because I’m just that goddamn anal when it comes to this sort of stuff, but the point is – look for quotes by/about Steph which highlight the above things we’ve talked about. You have thirty years to go through!

Author Intention

What purpose does this character serve?: A character that young female readers could get attached to – the every girl/girl next door archetype or a character that young boys could have a crush on – the kind of girl who’s into the same sort of stuff as you, I think Chuck Dixon once said of her, from her initial appearance. Fodder for Bruce and Tim’s man pain in War Games. Batgirl it’s a combination of filling the void for a female lead solo character in the batbooks, but also tonally taking on a much lighter and self-contained book that new readers could jump into very easily, directly compared to the more lore heavy Batman, Detective Comics, and Red Robin books.

What is the author trying to communicate: Steph’s character shows that determination can only get a person so far, a support system and doing things for the right reasons (again remember that want versus need argument) is the only way a person will genuinely succeed.

What is her main theme?: Balancing cynicism and idealism – doing acts for the right reasons, and discovering what these reasons actually are.

...

Is this even usable for anyone but myself? Possibly not!

Still... Go write! And good luck!

#ask and i'll babble #stephanie brown #tim drake #timsteph #dc #anon i am sorry if i misconstrued your intentions #but i hope if nothing else this helps you verbalise why you like steph and timsteph by extension #good luck for your writing!

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cirrus-grey · 4 years ago

Text

TMA/The Good Place AU

I've seen other versions of this before and I have so many thoughts (Contains spoilers for all seasons of both shows)

Gertrude is the Architect, who thinks she's working for the good of the universe by punishing bad people but gradually learns compassion, friendship, and the ways in which the system is broken

Gerry is the neighborhood guide like Janet

He's a lot more incorporeal though

Instead of "not a robot, not a girl" he's got "not a boy, not a ghost"

Good Gerrys have poor dye jobs

Bad Gerrys have perfect dye jobs

Neutral Gerrys do not dye their hair

Yes this means disco Gerry exists

Magnus is the Head of the Bad Place who pretends to be the Judge

(The actual Judge is Dekker)

OG Elias is the pothead student who had a bad trip and predicted the whole afterlife system with almost perfect accuracy

Jon, Martin, Tim, and Sasha are the four humans in the first neighborhood

Jon and Tim think they belong in the Good Place

Martin and Sasha know they do not

Jon is told his research into the supernatural saved thousands of lives

Tim was an environmental activist

Sasha was a hacker but Gertrude welcomes her as a tech innovator who changed the world

Martin was just working a minimum wage job trying to get by and Gertrude welcomes him as a professional in the parapsychology field, he's given the same "your research saved lives" spiel as Jon

Jon and Martin are told they're soulmates

Tim and Sasha are told the same

Jon and Martin have the Chidi/Eleanor multi-season-long star-crossed fall-in-love-in-every-reboot plot arc

Tim and Sasha have the we-hooked-up-in-one-reboot-but-we're-better-as-friends Tahani/Jason dynamic

However, Sasha gets Eleanor's "there's someone with my name who's supposed to be here instead of me" plot

This is Not!Sasha

Peter Lukas is the Bad Place representative who brings Not!Sasha to the "Good Place"

Martin gets Jason's "the person with your name was in a near-death coma"

Sasha tells Tim she doesn't belong right out of the gate

Martin overhears them and the three end up working together

Martin does not tell Jon he doesn't belong, leading to Jon becoming paranoid about what he, Tim, and Sasha are always conspiring about together

It comes out in a "why are you lying" argument just like the CV thing in canon and Jon is heartbroken that he doesn't actually have a soulmate

He shuts Martin out for a while but eventually realizes he's fallen in love with him, soulmate or not

The four of them end up working together (somewhat)

When they go to the Medium Place they meet Mikaele Salesa

He was a cut-throat antiques and curiosities dealer who donated his fortune to aid the orphaned children of sailors on his deathbed

Eventually the whole "this is the Bad Place" reveal happens

Not sure who figures it out

They get rebooted

And rebooted again

And again

Gertrude does not know how they keep figuring it out but she's definitely losing control

The other demons in the neighborhood are talking about rebelling

(Jude Perry is that one fire demon who keeps walking around without their skinsuit)

(I'm thinking Jared "canonically hot" Hopworth is the one who keeps going to the gym)

She makes a deal with the four humans to help them get to the real Good Place if they play along with the torture, and finally concedes to letting Annabelle Cane run the next reboot

(Yes, to line up with the original show it would be the Not!Them but I think Annabelle is far more likely to want to pull everyone's strings)

Instead of the Jason/Janet romance there's a Tim&Gerry friendship

Since there's no romance there's no need for a rebound boyfriend, however Gerry ends up feeling really alone in Annabelle's reboot and builds himself a new best friend to cope

It does not go well

Michael/Helen is a glitchy, non-functional almost-human who nearly blows everyone's cover with the chaos they cause

They have two faces, two personalities, two identities that they flip between seemingly at random

They get more stable the more times they're rebooted

They go chill with Salesa in the Medium Place while the main crew makes their bid for the Good Place, fails, begs the Judge (Dekker) for mercy, and ends up back on earth

Instead of a near-death psychological study they're all brought together again with an un-death paranormal study

Run by Jon and his new girlfriend Georgie

Yes, Peter is the demon Magnus sends to interfere

Yes, Gertrude drop-kicks him back off the planet

They form the Soul Squad and go off into the world to save people

Not really sure who

But they end up visiting OG Elias and realizing how deep the problems with the system go

They pass through accounting, which is run by Oliver Banks, and meet the neutral Gerry

I'm thinking Leitner is that one demon who's forced to assign point values to weird sex acts

Not sure who makes up the Good Place council

But they make their way back to the Judge and get the whole "test neighborhood" thing to happen

The new humans are Daisy, Basira, Melanie, and Georgie

I know it would make sense for Jon to end up in charge of the neighborhood as Gertrudes's replacement, but nope, he gets his memory wiped because he's awful at lying and he can't pretend he doesn't know Georgie

Martin ends up in charge after Gertrude freaks out

Jon does not actually end up as a participant in the study, since none of the new humans are demons in disguise, so he's just kind of wandering around like a loose end

Georgie definitely pulls the "this is a near-death hallucination" thing

Martin breaks his own heart telling Jon that Georgie's his soulmate, hoping Jon will be able to convince her it's all real

It backfires

Jon's miserable

He eventually confides in Tim (he and Sasha are pretending to be normal humans) that he thinks there's been a mistake, unless... do you think platonic soulmates are a thing?

He doesn't want to date Georgie

He's in love with Martin

Tim tells Martin and Martin has to handcuff himself to his desk so he doesn't run off and kiss Jon senseless

Yes, they establish that platonic soulmates are a thing

Georgie starts dating Melanie

Jon and Martin pine from a distance

I'm thinking Basira is the problem resident who is not making any progress towards improvement

She's very reluctant to see the complicated morals of a situation and takes a long time to break out of her "us vs them" mindset

When they're approaching the one-year anniversary of the new neighborhood and the end of the experiment Melanie and Georgie gather together Tim, Sasha, Daisy, Basira, and Jon

They pull out a huge red-string theory board and say there's something wrong with the neighborhood

Tim and Sasha exchange nervous glances

Georgie says she thinks it's all orchestrated by Martin

They make a plan to meet up at the party that evening

Tim and Sasha go straight to Martin, Gertrude, and Gerry and tell them what's going down

They decide to run out the clock and hope nothing goes too wrong

When Martin stops by his office Jon is waiting for him

Jon spills Georgie and Melanie's whole theory

"They think you're plotting against us, but I know you wouldn't"

"Whatever this is, you're as much a pawn as we are, I think"

"This is supposed to be the Good Place, right? So no one should be unhappy"

"But I am unhappy, Martin. You are too! I've seen the look you get, when you think no one's looking"

"Martin, I've seen the way you look at me. You must know how I feel about you. What kind of Good Place would not allow us to be together?"

Martin is imploding

He really really really wants to kiss Jon

But instead he takes him by the shoulders and tells him "I know what's going on. You're right, there's something more here than you've been told, but trust me when I tell you it's nothing bad. I won't let anything bad happen to you, Jon. I've got you"

"Please just play along with whatever happens tonight, I promise I'll explain everything soon"

And Jon does. Even when the sinkhole happens, even when Martin laughs in his face and tells him he's in the Bad Place

"I really got you, Jon," he says. "I got you good"

"I've got you," Jon remembers, and trusts him

Anyway there's a lot of drama but the neighborhood was a success

Jon gets his memories back and there's a tearful reunion

They start implementing test neighborhoods for everyone so everyone has a chance of reaching the Good Place

And Jon, Martin, Tim, Sasha, Gertrude, and Gerry finally get to go as well

Of course they still need to fix the Good Place itself but that goes fine

And then everyone gets a happy ending, with as much time as they want to spend with the people they love

#the magnus archives #my magnus archives stuff #original post #my writing #jonathan sims #martin backwood #sasha james #tim stoker #tma the good place au

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thejudgingtrash · 4 years ago

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can we pleeeease talk about how rushed the whole Nico and Will relationship was? They talked for 2 minutes, don't see each other forever and boom they're together. Like ??? When did that happen? Certainly not in the books? (okay I haven't read the books in ages, but it felt so forced and extremely rushed or is it just me? I'm queer myself so I'm all for LGBTQ+ representation, but that's not it)

Alright let’s tackle this! Sorry for answering so late, I always answer asks that will be longer super late ^^ anyway. I’ve sorta received this ask twice but the other one has more focused on Nico with a little bit Solangelo on the side so I’ll just fully tackle the Solangelo side on this one.

I have three simple issues with Solangelo.

Age

Substance

Fandom

Alright. Let’s start off with the first point or problem. Age. Or rather time. As in timeline. Because we all know that Rick Riordan basically spins a wheel whenever it comes to his timeline and I won’t go fully into the maths because I’m terrible at it and I’m not in the mood for embarrassing myself in that metier. Anyway, let’s proceed. My question is: what is their canonical age? The one from Will and the one from Nico?

I’ve caught glimpse in a group convo at the fact that Will was supposed to be 18 actually if you pay close attention to pjo? And I mean Nico is like 15 or something? Which is also sorta wrong? Because Riordan made him younger than Hazel who was 14 in the Herpes of Olympus saga. 14 and 18 is a fuck no from me, son. I guess Riordan forgot that HOO essentially took place in two days or something.

Riordan aging his characters down or rather refusing to let them age (looking at you, Percy and Annabeth!) because it doesn't convenience him isn’t something new. So, should they be mathematically speaking have that much of an age gap, yeah. That is problematic. That’s Frazel level kinda problematic. Even worse. I know that people are more inclined to look past age gaps in same-sex relationships but I always wondered why? There’s still a disproportionate level of maturity + a mighty power imbalance. So yeah. Watch out for that. Also they’re kids. So there’s no need in tying the knot and popping expensive champagne for their wedding just yet.

I mean I don’t have a problem with the time traveling aspect as in Nico still being mentally and physically a kid/teen. A little odd, sure. It’s not like Nico and Will are Edward and Bella and Nico’s goth ass is mentally aging along and stalking Will’s sorry self. It’s still weird because it’s so unbelievable? Nico is barely struggling finding his way into the modern world, chills at Hades and calls it a day? Now that’s something I have an issue with. I need more struggle. I need more vocab mix-ups. Nico’s brain exploding at the modern world. The difference between the 1940s and the late 2000s is massive. That isn’t just oh, weird little haircuts and why are women wearing pants, it would be not being able to comprehend things and questioning every new little object. Will could’ve been an amazing support character for such an arch, buuuut I’m deviating from my actual point. The timeline/age-line in the Riordanverse is for sure more on the concerning part for all new characters + OG side characters.

Second point. Substance. The thing you’ve touched in your ask.

How and when did Nico and Will become a thing? My memory is terrible and I’m too lazy to browse the wiki. The only thing I remember was Will being a nagging bitch in Blood of Olympus after Nico essentially said “I've got to move on and be who I am, I just don't belong here, I hope you understand, we might find a place in this world someday, but at least for now... I gotta go my own way...” to Percy who just went ??? That marked the beginning for this ship. Basically. I think. Well... I said before in my Percabeth ship roast (more like ship analysis, I have to redo that, that was way too mild and unfunny, omfg): most of the romance is in your head because there’s barely anything romantic in Riordan’s books to begin with (which we all should actually be thankful for!). This applies to essentially every goddamn ship in this series but especially Solangelo. Holy fuck. Y’all are pulling out the wildest stuff out of your ass based on... what exactly? I mean props for creativity!

It is abundantly clear to me at least, that Riordan didn't write Nico with the intention of being gay. There was no real indication in the Percy Jackson series (and I refuse to believe that he was this sort of mastermind, that plotted about doing all of this behind Disney’s back to get the gays and latinos in. There’s a market for everything and diversity was a coming trend in the 2010s).

One could say: Hey! Isn’t it great that Nico wasn’t labeled as being gay? It normalizes homosexuality and makes sure that the lgbtq+ community isn’t something abstract but rather folk like me and you. And to that I’d say yes, I mostly agree if the follow-up arch is believable and plausible. Which it isn’t in my opinion. We jump from the Heroes of Olympus saga to The Trials of (Mo)Lester I mean Apollo and we’re having this HUGE jump? From barely knowing each other to being soulmates, sitting next to each other, hanging out, going on in their business, having the picket white fence, two kids, three dogs, living in a gentrified neighborhood and baking cherry pie on Sundays? HOW IN THE ACTUAL FUCK DID ALL OF THIS HAPPEN?! That is incredibly rushed.

Aren’t...you shippers....Mad? That’s so cheap? I’d say so? Wouldn’t you like to have more pre-existing relationship and plausible development? With Percabeth you at least have a five book long progression, Solangelo is Riordan basically taking a dump on your plate and forcing you to eat it. And no, Riordan teasing the last Apollo doesn’t count.

Additionally, wouldn’t it be way better to still have a character say “Yeah, I’m gay. Pass me that salt, will ya?” without it being gimmicky or a foil or something for woke points? Just showing kids: “Hey, if you think this is a label that suits you, it’s fine! It’s perfect even! No worries!” (Also, the “coming out scene” with Jason and Cupid wasn't it, my loves. That was horrifying and insulting imo).

I mean. Show and tell are powerful tools in narration and telling more than often resolves unnecessary conflict/dialogue. And whereas season one from Percy Jackson had barely anything in that direction with Nico’s identity, season two didn’t make it any better. And season three is a complete cluster fuck.

Yeah. For me, the ship is super rushed.

Final point. The fandom.

I have to inter-subjectively state that Solangelo shippers are fucking crazy. I know Percabeth shippers (including me, helloooo) and especially the Annabeth stans for some odd reason are insane, but Solangelo shippers take the fucking cake and then some. There’s already a disconnect between the age groups in the fandom and it’s clear that more of the older teens and adults center around the Percy Jackson story and some in the Heroes of Olympus sequel, but from what I’ve seen the Trials of Apollo fandom is super young and on a whole different level. Might be the reason why facing some criticisms seems harder, because the minute you open your mouth to say something about Solangelo, you have people attacking you left and right. Chill guys, it’s not that deep? And it’s definitely not a personal attack on you. After all, I don’t know who you are and tbh Idgaf.

Talking about the lack of substance, fanon will automatically come in and fill the gaps. Which is fine and something we all do, but I really have to wonder about the levels of extremes that some take?

We all center around certain tropes and what not and while the trope and dynamic behind Solangelo isn’t particularly something for me, I really have to ask why people are behind it. Don’t get me wrong. My question is touching on more on M/M fetishization because I think that is mostly the driving force for some people rather than liking the actual ship? I see more people projecting things into Nico and Will and it’s really turning their characters into something they aren’t? Especially with Nico, who gets turned into this 5 ft. UwU punk princess which is hella strange???

All in all, I don’t have anything against the ship apart from it’s overrushed nature and Riordan’s wacky timeline. Do whatever you want with it (apart from fetishizing and sexualizing the ship), no one’s stopping you from liking it. But I do believe there are some things to look out for, especially in the fandom.

Take it easy, guys.

#mel answers #pjo #nico di angelo #will solace #solangelo #percy jackson #hoo #heroes of olympus #toa #trials of apollo #pjo ship analysis

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fancyfade · 3 years ago

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so ive been debating editing chapter 3 on my fanfic to make 1 scene line up more from canon. (chapter 3 is this one, where the characters deal with the aftermath of battle for the cowl, Tim finds out Damian’s Robin, and Dick and Damian move to the penthouse)

I’m debating making the Tim finding out Damian’s Robin scene a little more canon compliant along what happened in Red Robin (link) for a few reasons, the main of which is in the scenes that I’m writing next (like... chapter 47 lol), Tim and Dick do have to talk about what transpired when Dick made Damian Robin. Potential reasons for change

In my fic Tim kind of just left on his own without a push, but I’m not sure if Tim would have left on such bad terms if there wasn’t the complication of Damian antagonizing him and him feeling as if Dick was picking Damian over him (even though in the comic we saw Dick trying to de-escalate and get Tim’s back, it still felt that way to Tim)

I dislike the way some of this was handled in the comic and I can’t really comment on it in my fic if I just retcon it out

it seems fair-er I guess if Tim is allowed to have flaws just like Cass and Damian and Dick all have flaws in this fic. i know many tim stans think otherwise, but punching a ten-year-old victim of child abuse in the face out of anger is wrong.

the con side is obviously this involves Damian getting hit and that kid has been through so much already. I’m really trying to figure out how it works with character dynamics vs like. give the poor kid a break-ness.

anyway if I did decide to replace the current chapter 3, this is what it would be replaced with (only the first scene, the second would be the same). If you are a reader of the fic feel free to leave your comments. I would do an “oh and I edited chapter 3″ note before the relevant stuff was mentioned if I go through with this, I wouldn’t like expect everyone to know what happened. Some of the dialogue is not like exactly like in canon (cuz thats boring and also to match with what I wrote the first time) but the feeling/ beats should be similar

Gotham’s finally had a bit of lull in the violence, and Dick is just wondering how he’s going to do this.

He’s accepted that Damian’s his responsibility – seeing the kid shot in the chest made that perfectly clear, as much as he would’ve liked it to be otherwise. He felt like he was way too young to be watching out for a kid in any capacity other than cool older brother, especially a kid who’s as difficult to get along with as Damian. He was a great fighter, of course, and he knew it – Dick’s not sure he’s ever heard the kid be humble about anything. To make things worse, Dick feels like he’s constantly stuck in the middle between Damian and the kid he actually views as his younger brother – Tim, who Damian tried to kill. Evidence in point:

“Robin?!” Tim asks once he’s gotten back on his feet and Dick's explained his plan – away from Damian, who's still recovering from surgery.

“You made Damian Robin?!” Tim asks again.

Dick sighs. He’s in the cave, in a Batman costume he feels doesn’t fit right at all with the cowl off, and Tim’s still in his regular clothes. He has no idea how to explain this to Tim – no idea how to make him feel like he’s not being replaced. Dick never wanted to be the one doing the replacing – he remembers how much it hurt to find out that Jason was Robin from the papers, and that was after he officially stopped being Robin. Tim never quit – and Dick’s not about to make him – but he has to come home to the guy who tried to kill him getting his name.

“Tim, I know this looks bad, but Damian needs this.”

“Remember when we thought Bruce was going to retire after Crisis?” Tim asks. “Batman and Robin was supposed to be us. You and me. Not you and the psychopath that tried to kill me.”

“Tim, you’re not my sidekick, you’re my partner – ” Dick takes a step towards Tim with his hand out, prepared to offer sympathy, but Tim shakes him off angrily.

“Obviously not!”

“And Damian needs me way more than you do. If we don’t keep an eye on him, he’s going to kill again.”

Tim scowls intensely. “That should really not be an endorsement for being Robin, Dick! He’s a killer! He belongs in jail!” Tim swallows a little and then lowers his voice out of shouting range. “Dick, he didn’t try to kill me because he for some reason thought it was the only way to stop me from doing something bad, as far as I can tell he just wanted to replace me. We’re talking about someone with absolutely no sense of right or wrong.”

“Of course he doesn’t have a sense of right or wrong. He’s a ten-year-old child who was raised as an assassin from birth!”

“Lots of our villains have really sad or sympathetic reasons for doing crime, that doesn’t mean we team up with them.”

“Are you serious?” Dick asks. “This isn’t the same, Tim.”

“How not?”

“Well for one,” calls Damian's voice from the stairs, and Dick can't help but cringe and think not now – “I'm a lot better than them.”

Dick's cringe only intensifies when he turns around to see what Damian is wearing. His new Robin costume.

Tim's hands clench into fists the instant he sees Damian. Dick knows he has to de-escalate things quick before Tim and Damian have another fight.

“Damian,” Dick says, trying to keep himself carefully neutral-sounding. “Shouldn't you be resting?”

Damian lifts his head up slightly so his nose is in the air, and walks down the stairs almost normally. There's only a little hesitation in the twist of his torso, a little stiffness of his right arm.

Either he's zoned out of his mind on painkillers or depressingly good at masking his pain for a ten-year-old.

“Please,” Damian says. “I was trained in the League of Shadows. Do you really think an over-the-hill ex-Robin could put me down?”

Tim's fist clenches further, and so Dick says, letting a bit more urgency slip into his voice, “Damian, shut up. Now.”

Damian puts his left hand on his hips and looks intentionally at Tim. He adds, “I'm not Drake – ”

He's barely got the word out before Tim leaps forward and punches him in the face. Dick's out of his seat, grabbing Tim to hold him back, who is still distressingly struggling against him, like he wants to keep up the assault despite the fact that Damian fell to the floor.

“My name is Tim Wayne!” Tim shouts as Dick is still holding him back.

Damian gingerly sits up. Dick prepares to release Tim, prepares to stop Damian if he has to, if he decides to get revenge. But he doesn't. He just briefly braces his right side with his left hand before wiping the blood off his face.

“I let you get that shot in, Drake,” Damian says, again dropping intentional emphasis on Tim's original last name.

As he does, Tim struggles forward.

“Tim, back off!” Dick says, because Tim still isn't cooling down –

“I want you to feel good about yourself,” Damian continues.

Tim seems to relax his stance slightly, so Dick, possibly in an error of judgment, lets Tim go. But Tim doesn't try to attack Damian again, he just shakes Dick off and starts stomping away. “You want me to back off? Fine.”

He's going for the exit.

If he leaves –

Dick can't chase him. He's not sure that he can leave Damian alone –

“Tim, wait!” Dick says, taking a step forward. “Bruce is gone. But I still need you.”

“For what?” asks Damian and damn it is there anything this kid isn't going to try to ruin?

“Shut up, Damian,” Dick says again, even though as far as he knows he's just going to wind up pushing Damian away too –

And Tim leaves.

Dick turns to look at Damian. The kid's already back to his feet, like nothing happened, and Dick takes a step forward to inspect the injury – though he's really more worried about the gunshot wound than Tim's punch. Both Tim and Damian had wound up injured pretty badly during the chaos that gripped Gotham in the rumors of Batman’s death. As his new and not-improved version of Batman, Jason had tried to kill them both, which Dick is way less than pleased about. He’d been kind of hoping that they could talk Jason down, but this seems like a line he doesn’t know if Jason can ever un-cross. He shot a ten year old in the chest.

Damian grabs Dick's wrist as he reaches out.

“Are you all right?” Dick asks.

Damian scoffs. “You're worried about Drake? I've been hit harder sparring my mother.”

“I was thinking about the gunshot.” Alfred had said the primary damage was blood loss and a punctured lung (well, traumatic pneumothorax, but Dick knew what he meant) and given the kid a minimum of four weeks downtime to heal.

It's hard to tell due to the domino mask, but Damian adopts the position of a kid who's rolling their eyes, head slightly tilted to the side with a loll. “It's not enough to impersonate Batman, now you want to impersonate my mother?”

Dick doesn't know how to approach the mother thing, so he doesn't even try. He just explains the logic for being Batman – (and there is logic behind it. It's not like he wanted this). “Someone has to step up and convince Gotham things can get back to normal,” Dick says. “And serial killer Batman wasn't going to cut it.”

“Did you at least take care of him?” Damian asks.

Dick knows that Damian isn't actually worried about Jason's wellbeing, so he says, “Do you mean 'did I kill him'?”

“Tt. Obviously.”

“Obviously not.”

Damian presses his lips together in a thin line.

Dick might as well get this out of the way now. He's going to have to sometime. “Alfred wants you out of the field for four weeks.”

“That's preposterous!” Damian shouts, and as he shouts, he coughs. He rubs his chest quickly and then glowers at Dick when he sees him staring.

“Damian, you could have died.”

“I didn’t.”

Jeez, doesn’t this kid have any sense of his own mortality? Though, Dick supposes, growing up around Lazarus Pits and a centuries old grandfather might make that impossible.

“I’m not a fool, Grayson, I know I’m not capable of healing instantaneously. I’ll take a break for one week,” he offers, like it’s a huge concession on his part.

“Four weeks,” Dick says.

“What about you?” Damian asks. “Didn’t you get injured?”

“Not as badly.”

“Are you taking a break?”

“Someone needs to convince Gotham that Batman’s not dead,” Dick says. Also, he doesn’t want to take a break. He doesn’t want to be alone with his thoughts. Losing Bruce. Failing Tim.

“Tt. Then I don’t need one either. I’m younger. I heal faster.”

Dick actually has no clue whether that’s true, because he’s not a doctor, but he knows that people usually say kids heal faster.

Dick swings his arms a little, trying to feel them out. They’re still stiff, and as they move, a jolt of pain shoots through him. Even when he’s not moving, his shoulder is still sore. He knows that he might get injured going into the field like this and that it’s not a smart decision – last time he went into the field while still healing, he wound up blowing his secret identity to Blockbuster.

He decides that at least if he’s going into the field, he won’t tell Barbara and Alfred about it. Okay, so that’s probably not the smartest of his plans. Most plans that you have to hide from people who care about you aren't smart.

“I’ll take a week long break with you,” Dick concedes. “And we can see how fast you’re healing.” The second part is a lie, of course. He's not going to supersede Alfred's orders on medical matters.

Dick sighs a little. He figures that while they’re both on bed-rest duty, though, he can try to figure out how to set things up so they can operate effectively once they get a clean bill of health.

“How do you feel about not living in the manor?” Dick asks.

“Kicking me out already?”

“Don’t be ridiculous, I wouldn’t be living here either,” Dick says. It’s true. He’d rather not feel like he’s living in all of Bruce’s old places, wearing Bruce’s old costume, … replacing him, essentially. He needs a place he can clear his head.

“Where would you live then?” Damian asks skeptically.

Dick shrugs. “The penthouse, maybe. Bruce already made a bunker nearby, so we could operate out of there pretty easily.”

Damian narrows his eyes. “Why do you keep saying ‘we’?”

Because you are ten and not ready to live on your own. But Dick just says, “Well, you’re Robin now, right? That means you’re pretty much obligated to team up with Batman.”

“Batman isn’t here, Grayson. He never will be again, no matter how much you play dress-up.”

Charming kid. Like Dick didn’t already know that.

“You know I operate effectively alone, right?” Damian continues. “I don’t need to be hand-held and babysat like all of Father’s previous partners.”

Dick figures that it’d be a jerk move to remind Damian he just almost died and therefore really shouldn’t be on his own. Instead, he says, “Well, Alfred’s staying with me, so unless you want to get all your food and clean the house by yourself, you have to put up with me.”

“Tt . I don’t need a servant. I’ll just eat at restaurants.”

“On who’s money?”

“In the event of his death, my father’s assets should have transferred to me. His blood son.”

Oh boy. Dick rubs his face. “Does this have to be a thing, Damian? No one’s doubting your capacity to take care of yourself but I think it’d really be easier if we were operating out of the same building. “

A long silence on Damian’s part. “Fine,” he says eventually. “I’ll allow you to stay at my penthouse.”

My penthouse. Of course. But Dick takes it. “All right,” he says. “Let’s move in.”

#idk even #to my followers #my fanfic #dc comics #dc fanfic #tim drake #damian wayne #dick grayson

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cabin-7 · 5 years ago

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So, I'm obsessed with Newsies right? I've seen posts throwing Newsies characters into the Riordan verse, but I havent seen one the other way around.

Some of the characters coordinated with with canon Newsies characters. Also! In 1899 there werent a ton of girl newsies, much less girl leaders. I put characters in positions I felt they belonged in, not where I thought it would make sense in historical terms.

Brooklyn = Camp Jupiter

Manhattan = Camp Half-Blood

Will

newsies name is probably sunshine, sunspot, or doctor

incharge of medical care but still sells papes

Manhattan newsie!!

Nico

probably goes by Nico or some generic newsie name. Maybe shadow?

goes between territories to sell papes.

Used to sell in Brooklyn a lot.

When he sold in brooklyn, he refused to sleep in the Manhattan lodging house

casts lots at Sheepshead

Manhattan Newsie

Percy

Jack Kelly

Seaweed Brain

Leader of Manhattan

doesnt like Nico going to Brooklyn until he spends some time there

Annabeth

Just Kathrine Pulitzer

Reporter

falls in love with dumb idiot Manhattan leader

Smartest one there. Works for Olympus Press

A big help to the newsies, whether it's helping them learn or trying to get them out of fights

Reyna

Spot Conlon

Co-leader of brooklyn alongside Frank

probably named just Preator

very organized

the one who let Nico sell in Brooklyn

Probably the most feared newsie

Frank

other co-leader of Brooklyn.

maybe named hunter

Not as scary as Reyna

primarily trusted by Brooklyn newsies

actually gets in a lot of fights

Brooklyn Newsie

Hazel

in charge of Brooklyn kids' care for the most part

"right hand man" of the Brooklyn leaders

Brooklyn Newsie

Gemstone

Grover

I'm sorry but he's literally crutchie

both if them deserved better

Nicknamed Saytr

limp leg + crutch

Get him out of the refuge okay-

Manhattan Newsie

Jason

Davey

Okay, he's nothing like Davey, but I thought the whole right hand man dynamic with Jack and Davey could work with Percy and Jason

Probably called Jase?

Seaweed Brain's right hand man

Everyone thinks he's Smart ™️

in reality he just has common sense

Used to live in Brooklyn, moved to Manhatran and picked up a job with the Newsies

Leo

Raceteack Higgins

I would say he's Albert, but I feel Race has a bit more chaotic energy than him

probably named Captain, Flaming Valdez, or Pirate

very sneaky and reckless but agile

gets in a lot of fights

casts lots on horses with Nico at Sheepshead in Brooklyn

Manhattan Newsie

Piper

Chaotic newsie with Race energy

Beauty Queen, Pipes

friends with Leo

Manhattan Newsie

The gods

Separate publishers

Gaia + Kronos

Pluitzer and Hearst

Luke + Octavian

the Stinky™️ Delancy brothers

Idk who the fuck would be Les

#heroes of olympus #percy jackson #percy jackon and the olympians #annabeth chase #nico di angelo #will solace #jason grace #leo valdez #piper mclean #hazel levesque #frank zhang #newsies #newsies 1992 #newsies the musical #newsboy strike 1899 #newsies au

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coolgirl · 5 years ago

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☕️ Duke Thomas

It really makes my blood boil everytime ppl don't include him on content (fanart, fics, headcanons) and put stupid as fuck excuses on why they did it like.

"he's new I don't know him" he's been around for six years. If you wanna get technical we are robin first got released on 2015, which still means there's FOUR WHOLE YEARS he's been around. (Tan voice) make an effort.

"I don't know where to start" his main comics couldn't be any fucking easier to read. Just pick up we are robin and then the tpb of batman & signal which includes the mini and asserted stories where he's the main character. And like come the fuck on are you telling me the other batkids are any easier to read!? Pick a reading guide I can assure you it won't take you more than a weekend to get caught up on what you missed.

"he isn't part of the batfam" WELL MAYBE IF YOU READ HIS COMICS U WOULD KNOW HOW WRONG YOU ARE

Look! He even made it to the portrait! In fucking DEATHSTROKE a comic not even about the batfam

"he isn't important" UH he was the main character of a whole book, he had a mini, he was in batman, all star batman, detective comics, hell he even had a counterpart in the white knight. He's currently part of the batman and the outsiders reboot which I'll tell u is (chef kiss) and is exploring his character even more, Not to mention he's been namedropped in future worlds such as batman beyond and had relevancy to be mentioned by "future/au" dick on jl, where yes! You guessed it! Puts him by the other robins

WHICH brings me to

"this is a robin piece and he wasn't robin" okay this one annoys the fuck out of me. He had a whole book called we are robin. He was. Robin. He's not anymore, and respecting he said he doesn't want to be Bruce's robin and that he's different/more gives u exactly one (1) brownie point, but damn. He was robin. If you don't add him because he's not robin anymore or was never Bruce's robin then I hope you aren't adding.. literally any of the other robins either, as they also left that legacy behind and hell for years Tim was canonically not robin, and yet he has always been added to it. AND I'm about to blow your fucking mind. A few years ago the official DC website made a post for robins anniversary

And guess! Who! Made it! To the list!

Wow!!! Who would've thought!!!

"he just isnt interesting" well I would've hoped you gave me that excuse right off the bat so I knew I was wasting my time talking to a wall. Like. HOW is he not interesting?? He WAS TRAINING HIMSELF AS A KID TO TRY TO ONE DO THE RIDDLERRR!! HE WAS HANDPICKED BY ALFRED TO BE A ROBIN WHEN THE REST OF THE BATFAM WAS DOING GOD KNOWS WHAT!!! And he has an angsty~ backstory and is funny as hell and empathetic and reckless and smart and A META for crying out loud, whose powers and backstory have been barely touched upon, with SO MUCH POTENTIAL. HE PATROLS GOTHAM DURING THE DAY!!! and he has such a fun dynamic with Bruce, Cass and Jason and Damian, and Dick saw himself on him (and you could make a really good essay on why he could be a great mentor for Duke and their similarities) like PLEASE I can assure you that if you read his comics you will fall in love with him and wish DC didn't pay him dust.

OKAH IM SORRY I WROTE TOO MUCH THERE BUT ALSO it's insane how people write him so much as like. The one who's always like WTF this family is insane like it's so obvious people who wrote him like that have made zero attempt to read his comics and are just playing it by ear like.. he's. A goddamn vigilante. Right off the bat. There's no way he doesn't go as crazy stupid as the others. Yes he lacks the experience the others do which could potentially mean he gets caught off guard more often but it doesn't mean he's like uuuh this family is crazy I'm out of there kshsod. And honestly everytime people say that kind of shit this panel comes to mind

Like uh yes there we have it.

Not to make everything negative I'll also say I very much enjoy his friendship with Cass, they're adorable when written by Hill, and I'm so happy we're seeing more of them in canon. I also love his dynamic with Jason as they're funny as fuck when they're in the same panel. AND sadly DC totally dropped the ball with them but I still think he has a lot of potential with Damian, as they were living in the manor together for some time so that would've been fun to see, not to mention their interactions were also funny and they would've made a terrific duo considering their personalities.

OH also so far batman & the outsiders seems to be focusing more on like. Him dealing with the trauma he suffered (which I'm really digging!!) And his dynamic with the team rather than his solo work, but I would enjoy very much if we were given more about him being a daytime vigilante as it was not only a really interesting concept for a character belonging to the batfam, but also was really unique?? And it was even more interesting when playing it with his meta powers & the side characters he was given on his mini were lovely like :( on going signal book when :( and I'm honestly dying to see him work with more teen heroes that aren't exclusively batfam members. It would be rlly interesting to see him in that type of scenario.. like ahgh

OKAY IM DONE sorry

Send me a ☕️ and a topic and I’ll talk about how I feel about it lol

#sorry if the format gets fucked up im posting from mobile

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otp-armada · 4 years ago

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I am not looking forward to these flashbacks.

To date, we’ve had four onscreen kisses shared between Bellamy and Echo with additional, smaller moments of other forms of intimacy. I’d rather the show refrain from adding more tally marks to the count.

If humans were gifted with the capacity for purging unwanted memories, then all this discomfort would be a moot point. I suppose there’s always alcohol as a fallback option, but not even the prospect of temporary amnesia is worth destroying my liver. Turning to alcohol to drown my B/E-related sorrows would probably qualify more as self-harm than self-help.

I’d much prefer to cut directly to an imminent breakup scene without the pomp and circumstance of an agonized Echo’s trip down memory lane.

If anything, supplying us with visual evidence on how happy they were together is an even sadder remark on the state of B/E’s fragility, knowing it took 0.001 seconds for the mere mention of Clarke’s name to bring it all to ruin. No collection of past happy moments shared on the Ring erases the fractures in their relationship that occur between them afterward, originating with the revelation of a still-living Clarke. I'd be an absolute fool to believe otherwise.

But if Jason deems a tour of their greatest hits as necessary to the story, I trust his judgment. Showing us B/E's origins as their romantic relationship begins to fall apart in real-time brings it full circle, and it lends gravitas to the story he's telling with Echo. With this particular arc, the bigger picture is still Echo's evolution. It's not about B/E.

Once season 7 started, there was a visible shift in how Jason utilized B/E. Whereas seasons 5 and 6 primarily used B/E as the third leg in a love triangle designed to keep a pining Bellarke apart, season 7 uses their master-spy dynamic to bolster Echo's development almost exclusively. Post-season 6, Bellarke is so primed to get together, one honest admission of mutual feelings without Echo as an obstacle and BOOM. Canon couple.

Echo has a more extensive role than girl-to-be-dumped, and I'm not upset over it. She gets to stand up as a character after the majority of her life has been marked by slavery for her crown, and I'm not upset over it. As indemnification for the loss of her relationship, this orphan-turned-soldier is finding her place in a supportive, loving family while developing a sense of identity and independence, and I'm not upset over it.

I would’ve preferred Jason found a way to take her on this path without B/E remaining intact this far into the final season and theoretically for the foreseeable episodes. I would always choose to end them sooner rather than later, given a choice. But I understand why Jason didn't.

Echo can’t very well outgrow a master-spy complex if there is no master to her spy. And as much as I hate it, the romantic aspect of B/E is a believable, convenient tool to keep this complex in place until her story comes to fruition. Would Echo act so extremely in service to a recent ex-boyfriend who left her for another woman? Probably not. As far as I can tell, the pinnacle of her arc is the moment she realizes she has to break free from Bellamy. So narrative structure demands B/E stay together, however technically, long enough for her to break those chains.

I was initially excited about the flashbacks, if only because I took them as a sign of an impending breakup. But the timing doesn't pan out. Aside from the logistics of Echo and Bellamy presumably on separate worlds, and with her thinking him dead, we've only just reached the point where Echo might start to ask herself those hard questions she's been avoiding. She must have noticed a change in her relationship. Between Psychosis!Emori, B/E's 6x04 fight, and Anomaly!Roan, she's had enough cause for doubt. But I think she's suppressed any urge to reflect upon it for a number of reasons. Love. Continued hope they'll last. War. A mission to save him. It took a lot of meticulous maneuvering to corner Echo to this point. Now that we're here, I don't think Jason would pull a reverse Uno card in a 40-minute episode. It seems more likely that he will let her continue to stew in her emotions. Either she'll keep sinking until she hits rock bottom, or she'll start learning how to swim.

Jason could always prove me wrong. And if I am, I'd never be happier for him to do so. If I'm not? It's at times like this when I am reminded of the resolution I made at the end of season 6- rest easy in the comfort of knowing B/E will meet its inevitable end but do not try to speculate when that might be. Attempting to discern the specifics of "when" brings one only misery.

Jason’s signature sometimes-too-fast, other-times-too-slow pacing, is often liable to tempt one into ripping their own hair out. That being said, I’ve seen enough of this show to trust in his ability to tell a damn good story. Faith in his competency for the craft just requires on our part, the patience of a saint.

If nothing else, it isn’t my story to tell, so I’ll just have to suck it up and find a way to deal with any disappointments I may feel. Or I can try to find the value within the story told. It's a better alternative than to be left bitter. No promises, though.

Maybe Echo’s actions against the Disciples aren’t reprehensible, considering the people she’s killing are those complicit in kidnapping and torturing her people. But Orlando was a good, honorable man whose naïveté convinced him to play for the wrong team, yet helped our heroes when he didn’t have to. Not unlike Shaw, whom Echo sold to Diyoza to fulfill her mission. But I assume “We are not his people” is residual mistrust leftover from Ryker’s betrayal of her. She miscalculated the feelings of one possible defector before, she won’t make the same mistake twice.

If she was able to save Bellamy in the end, I’m sure she’d be able to justify the spilled blood it took to get there. But Orlando suffered at her hands for nothing, and she may not be overly concerned with morality, but she cares for the people she grows close to. Unless the episode proves otherwise, I’d like to think Orlando’s fate will weigh heavily on her.

They may not have been close. But five years in close quarters with only a few people akin to friends for comfort, it'd be hard not to feel the slightest bit attached.

Those of us who believe in Bellarke know Echo is the third-party obstacle in a love triangle. But what is far more interesting is the role she played in the seasons-long Blake siblings struggle.

Echo was persona non grata to both siblings following her and Octavia's mountaintop fight. Six years later, she highlights the difference in the siblings' maturities. Whereas Bellamy has learned to embrace empathy and forgiveness with open arms, Octavia is cold and unyielding. On a more personal note, B/E represents Octavia's persistent unwillingness to respect Bellamy as his own person, with needs and wants independent of her.

After her soul searching on Skyring, I thought she had buried the hatchet, as per her lack of vitriol in her 6x12 conversation with Bellamy, and enthusiastically joining forces with Echo in 6x13. Maybe she did. But Octavia has also proven herself an unreliable narrator, and Hope feels indignation on her aunt's behalf. Whatever the case, there's a reason why the dialogue keeps referencing Echo and Octavia's hostile history. And I think it's building to a head in 7x07.

I think mutual love for Bellamy is healing the divide between them when Echo is at her most fractured. She's isolated from Bellamy and the rest of Spacekru. Left in pain and seeking retribution as Octavia did, which, as we know, is where it all went wrong for the latter. Octavia, more than most, is in the best position to empathize with what Echo is currently feeling and how pain can destroy her if she lets it consume her.

If Octavia can remind Echo she's not alone, if a former enemy can convince her she belongs and welcome her with open arms- as her brother did before her- it might do well in healing some broken piece inside of her. And it would be a roundabout display of Octavia's newfound maturity. This is good for both of them. This spiral she is in will require her to look inward. Since her fixation with Bellamy is partly what landed her in this mess, absolution cannot come from him. She can only find it in herself if she wants it. But I'd be glad if Octavia can help see her through it. This is what I mean about seeking value in the story told. We're so concerned about Octavia calling Echo family, about the possibility of it legitimizing B/E, it doesn't occur to us that it's about the characters themselves. And B/E is only a vehicle used to bring us there. It's easier to see when not consumed by automatic seething rage, as typical of our fellow Bellarke compatriots, for anything remotely associated with Echo.

If my heart and mind weren’t chanting “BELLARKEBELLARKEBELLARKE,” there’s a good chance I’d be able to better appreciate the complexities B/E gives to the development of the four characters it directly impacts.

Our side of fandom has made lots of accusations about B/E since 5x01. It’s a forgettable, physical relationship worth little to Bellamy. B/E is unhealthy for reasons x, y, and z. We generate a different example in every episode. Click slideshow for more details. But the fact of the matter is, much of this isn't true. Until Echo went postal, B/E wasn’t unhealthy. Bellamy just had a greater love for Clarke. Up until their ending scene in 6x04, there was nothing they couldn’t come back from together, if both committed themselves fully, no more walls. It's not a particularly popular train of thought among us, but Jason absolutely could've written B/E as an endgame pairing. And all it would take to deliver a final killing blow is the inclusion of a single damning scene.

We can gripe over the length of time they've stayed together. But, in spite of what most people think about every new B/E development and Bellarke separation, Jason has never actually dropped an ax on Bellarke. Hope persists.

Jason is responsible for the development of dozens of characters, major plots, and dozens of smaller subplots. But our fandom reduced the story chiefly to Bellarke's romance. Our villains are those who stand in their way. Namely Echo, the only outside love interest to be an official obstacle. We fashioned Echo as our enemy. In lieu of removing her from the narrative (which is not in our power to do), we've done everything within our purview to diminish her. If Jason won't treat B/E and Echo as the jokes we know they are, we'll do it ourselves. Minimizing her role in the story makes it a hell of a lot easier to erase a character we'd rather didn't exist for our preferred ship to advance.

Lord knows how many times we've claimed she has no story. That absent relevance or substantial bearing, she's there simply because Jason is partial to her for some elusive reason. But the reality is, we never looked for her story because we wanted to be able to claim its inexistence. We wanted to be able to say she's frivolous to the story, and by extension, to Bellamy. We want to be able to dismantle B/E when it appears Jason doesn't. Except he is and has been doing so since day one.

Months ago, on a whim, when I was feeling benevolent towards Echo, I wrote a long post HERE giving her the benefit of the doubt, and I said:

In the grand scheme of the story, I think this is the purpose Echo serves, to represent the part that says, “We’re all human. No matter what tribe we belong to, we fight for the same reasons. We love the same way. When you leave allegiances aside, when you see someone for who they are at their core, an enemy today can become a friend tomorrow.”

True peace, a series-long running theme for our heroes, begins with embracing former outsiders like Echo and Emori. Easy to lose sight of this when focused on ship wars.

It is perfectly acceptable not to love all the components of a story. It is understandable to focus your attention on those select segments you find appealing. But a tunnel-visioned mindset lands you in trouble when you become resentful at the reminders that a story is a composite of more moving pieces than just the parts you like. And when you forget that screentime allotted to developing those pieces ahead of what you favor is permissible. Everything on a show has its time, all in due course.

On the other hand, B/E shippers overinflate their ship's significance. They take canon and twist it to say, "Look at how strong B/E is, Bellarke could never. B/E is endgame, and Blorkes are delusional." Their conclusion of an epic love is another bias-based fandom interpretation that doesn’t hold water, either.

I think the reality of B/E lies somewhere in a muddled middle of these two extremes.

One last point, and I'll get off my soapbox. Despite what the melodramatic diatribe in my opening paragraph suggests, B/E is never as atrocious as fandom makes them out to be. Greater fandom treats anything remotely associated with B/E as the next great catastrophe. And as it turns out, it never really is.

Tagging @sometimesrosy, because I think, after years of combating opinions you don’t agree with, it might be a refreshing change of pace to know some of us do have more balanced views regarding B/E. If I do say so myself.

#hmmm how i tag this in a way that will land me in the least amount of hot water?#the 100 meta #with a side order of #fandom wank #long post #the 100 #bellarke #b/e #c/b/e #the 100 season 7 #my post

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threewaysdivided · 5 years ago

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Hello! I know that YJ:DW takes place only between s1 and s2 of young justice, but I was kind of wondering how danny would get along with tim drake? like if you had any headcanons for them? Thank you for humoring me and I love your writing! ;)

Hello and welcome!

Buckle up because this answer is going to be more tangential and rambly than expected.

The way I see it Danny’s presence in YJ:DW ends up subtly shifting the dynamic with all the Batboys. He joins the family through Robin moreso than Batman, older, already semi-formed as his own hero disconnected from the Batman/Robin lineage, and reasonably self-sufficient (albeit inexperienced and severely lacking a support network).

This kind of puts him in an odd position where he emotionally ends up as Dick’s brother but Bruce’s favourite nephew. (Not through any deliberate action on Bruce’s part; it’s just that he’s had Danny for less time and - between his age, Dick, Alfred and The Team - Danny isn’t as reliant on him for the level of emotional and paternal support that forged his bond with Dick.)

What this does do, though, is push Bruce and Dick further along in their development. For Dick, it’s a chance to get used to sharing Bruce’s attention in a familial setting (compared to the more professional setting of The Team), with someone who isn’t a threat to his position as Robin, and who he had a say in bringing in. For Bruce, Danny’s older and less emotionally attached, so when he strikes out into adulthood ahead of Dick it’s kind of a soft-mode trial run for everyone to get used to the inevitable fact that the Boys will eventually grow up and leave.

Basically, Danny’s presence helps smooth Dick’s jump to Nightwing even further (according Word of God it was already pretty amicable, which makes sense for these versions of the characters) and makes Jason’s move into the role of the Second Robin a bit softer, as Dick has already unpacked a lot of the “single child”/sibling baggage, leaving just the mantle-specific issues as the major roadblock. There’s no real canon right now for what the Jason-Dick dynamic was like in the YJ!verse growl but for YJ:DW I’d expect it to be even closer and more positive than average. Of course, this isn’t all good, as the two being closer makes Jason getting uh… Jason-ed hurt a lot more, but on the flipside, having Danny to go to for support means that, while it hits harder, he doesn’t break quite as badly. (Although, Dick and Danny being able to lean on each other might leave Bruce feeling out in the cold a little more).

Which brings us, finally, to Tim.

I think Danny would initially hold Tim at arm’s length longer than Dick would - not because of any issue with Tim, just a result of his personality and what he’s been through in YJ:DW (he basically does this with everyone). Danny’s also sort of a weird early-spot for Tim because he’s the one our young detective couldn’t quite figure out - Tim would have pieced together the Dick-Robin/Bruce-Batman connection but Phantom was never specifically publicly affiliated with the Bats and the cover story for Danny Fenton’s adoption is difficult to reconcile without that. There’s also the fact that - even though Danny would unofficially stay with the Team - I see him being pushed up to the Justice League the second he’s a legal adult for the sake of solidifying human-ghost relations in the public eye, which combined with his powers makes him seem a lot more imposing than he really is.

Once that’s out of the way I expect Danny and Tim would wind up reasonably close; starting as sort of a ‘non-confrontational geeky insomniac introvert’ solidarity and building from there. Pretty reliable as online co-op partners for late-night gaming (the good thing about half-ghosts is that 4 hours is a healthy nights’ sleep for them when not in times of heavy power-use). When they both settle enough to open up, I think Tim would find a decent ear for any worries or insecurities about not really belonging in the Batfamily - it’s not quite the same but Danny’s been around a similar block before and gets where those feelings come from in a way that Dick never quite manages (despite how hard he tries). Of all the Batsibs, I see Dick and Tim being the two who end up viewing Danny as a brother, where the others might see him more like a particularly close cousin.

Getting out into the weeds I think their bond would really solidify as they get older and Tim starts to make the jump to Red Robin and beyond. Knowing that there’s a Non-Robin Honorary Bat who’s out there working as an independent hero and doing just fine, while still maintaining healthy personal and professional ties to the Fam’ would a massive weight off Tim’s mind. I also see Danny as someone who’d have very limited patience for Damian’s worst behaviours (and to a more generous degree Post-Lazarus Jason’s), so his apartment would be something of a safe-haven when Dick’s caught up in brother-mode and Tim needs an escape from all the drama.

Hope this satisfies you curiosity!

#that ended up being a lot more batfam-in-general #but as another writer pointed out #it’s kind of hard to fit tim in without understanding the relative construction of the others #this is mostly based on broader dcu/animated/fanon versions of tim #unfortunately i don’t have a lot of headcanons for yj!tim specifically #imo he suffers from the same issue as the majority of secondary yj characters from s2 onwards #frustratingly under-characterised beyond the bare-bones needed for plot utility #i would have loved to be able to connect with their specific take on tim in yj’s specific universe #but instead… that isn’t really what we got #he’s more of a tim-shaped outline #that we have to colour in using knowledge from other properties #and while that approach is okay in small doses #(or for cameo characters)#when over-relied on it creates these weird non-entities #that struggle to work as their own contexts outside of the specific scenes they were written for #it’s hard to predict how most of the s2+ cast would behave if placed in a different environment #(maybe some of that is addressed in the revival)#(but from what i've heard character writing is one of yj outsiders' biggest weakspots so i'm none too confident that that will be so)#young justice: deathly weapons #danny phantom #danny fenton #tim drake #dp x yj #young justice #3wd answers

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vmheadquarters · 5 years ago

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When the Veronica Mars fan-funded film was released in 2014, no one could have predicted it would help to usher in a trend of revivals and reboots and remakes that would come to dominate Hollywood. And certainly no one could have predicted the series, a neo-noir about a teenage private detective in its original form, would be returning again five years later, this time as an eight-episode limited series on Hulu.

And yet the show's refusal to accept defeat feels like a perfect encapsulation of the spirit of Veronica Mars herself. Brought to vivid life by Kristen Bell, Veronica always gets back up. She plays by her own rules, never allowing herself to be content with or conform to the status quo. She's never what you expect, and she can accomplish anything she sets her mind to. Along with her sparkling wit, these are her most admirable traits. But as with any revival, one has to wonder what the end goal ultimately is.

The feature film funded by fans through a Kickstarter allowed series creator Rob Thomas to craft an ending where there previously wasn't one. A parade of familiar faces, it was heavy on the nostalgia but light on the intricate, well-paced mysteries that originally set the show apart. This new chapter in the Veronica Mars saga doesn't serve the same purpose. It's not a trip down memory lane or an extended coda; it's an opportunity to test the waters and find out whether or not Veronica Mars still has life left in her. The world of television has changed a lot since the series first debuted on UPN, and although audiences might not have been ready for her then, they very well may be now.

Hulu is referring to these eight new episodes as Season 4 rather than simply a limited series, and while that doesn't necessarily mean anything, we can't discount the fact this is the second time the show has returned from the dead or that Bell, whose NBC series The Good Place will be ending after this upcoming season, and Thomas have both already expressed an interest in continuing Veronica's story beyond what we see here. The stakes are infinitely higher now than they were five years ago when the film hit theaters. The new season has to appeal to longtime fans as well as potential new ones. This ultimately means the overarching mystery at the heart of the season has to be strong enough to carry the weight and then some. The story has to push Veronica forward in a meaningful way. And for the most part, it succeeds.

When the show returns, Veronica is still working alongside television's No. 1 dad, Keith Mars (Enrico Colantoni), as a private eye in her hometown of Neptune, California. She and Logan (Jason Dohring), who is still in the military (and remains incredibly handsome), are still together and have adopted a dog named Pony since we saw them last. They're happy and stable, but Logan's job often takes him away suddenly for weeks or months at a time. While he's constantly moving, Veronica is more or less standing still. And she appears completely content with her life. But when a series of deadly bombings hit the town during the month-long celebration of spring break and threaten the city's tourism industry, and thus the livelihood of Neptune's quickly disappearing working class, Veronica dives headfirst into solving the case.

The class divide of Neptune, with the working class pitted against the town's rich elite, was built into the foundation of Veronica Mars, but when Veronica was in high school, it often played out through Veronica's status as an outsider. She didn't fit in with the popular crowd, known as the 09ers, because of Keith's wrongful accusation of the Kanes in the wake of Lilly's (Amanda Seyfried) murder. But she also didn't fit in with the working class because of her former association with that same rich crowd. In 2019, with Veronica now in her 30s, the class warfare manifests itself differently. Veronica and Keith are still hustling to make ends meet as private eyes — Veronica is hesitant to take any job that won't pay them well and drives up their retainer whenever she can — but a pointed C-plot also finds Keith, who is still struggling in the wake of the car accident that occurred in the film, attempting to navigate our country's broken healthcare system as a member of the have-nots. It's familiar social commentary for the series, but it's perhaps even more relevant now than it was in 2004.

So when bombs start going off, putting many of the businesses that rely on local tourism in jeopardy, like a rowdy nightclub owned by Kirby Howell-Baptiste's Nicole, Veronica naturally starts digging. Technically she and Keith have been hired by the family of a congressman whose brother was injured in one of the bombings, but Veronica is interested in the case for other reasons too, namely Matty (Izabela Vidovic), the daughter of a divorced single father who dies in the first explosion. The show takes every opportunity to remind us Matty is a lot like a young Veronica, for better or worse.

The ensuing investigation, which plays out over the entire season, puts Veronica on a collision course with Penn Epner (Patton Oswalt), a local pizza delivery guy with a true crime obsession, as well as a few familiar faces from the original series. They include Weevil (Francis Capra), who's back in his criminal element after being framed by the sheriff's department in the film and taking an out-of-court settlement in Mr. Kiss and Tell, one of two canonical books published after the film; Leo (Max Greenfield), who now works for the FBI and continues to have sparks with Veronica; Vinnie (Ken Marino), whose office is a strip club because that's the logical next step after a van; and even Liam Fitzpatrick (Rod Rowland), who's still a scumbag and may or may not be involved in planting the bombs. Eventually, the case leads Veronica to none other than Big Dick Casablancas (David Starzyk), who seems to have suffered very little from his time in prison. Now cozied up to a man he met on the inside, Clyde (the always excellent J.K. Simmons), he's attempting to transform Neptune from a wild spring break destination into an elite and idyllic seaside community only the rich can afford.

This is a Veronica Mars that is both familiar and new. As Bell and Thomas promised, the new season is a different beast from the show that initially ran for three seasons on UPN and The CW in the mid-2000s. It's been described as more adult and as "hardcore So-Cal noir," and although it's difficult to imagine a scenario for Veronica that is worse than her own rape and the murder of her best friend as a teenager, the series somehow manages to go bigger and darker and create a more dangerous atmosphere, complete with increasingly dire consequences. In the process, it also evolves into a show about Veronica's emotional stagnation.

A running thread this season finds Logan pushing Veronica to go to therapy so she can hopefully begin to cope with her trauma rather than continuing to ignore it. He credits his therapist with helping him manage his anger — Logan might have evolved and matured during his time in the military, but he's still Logan — but Veronica repeatedly refuses, insisting she's fine. Of course, anyone with a working set of eyeballs can obviously see that Veronica is not fine, that she's been hardened by everything that has happened to her over the years and still suffers from the trust issues that have plagued her since her high school days. It's not entirely clear if Veronica is even happy working as a P.I. in Neptune or if that's just what she thinks she should be doing. All the same, Logan is determined to help Veronica, and after seeing plenty of men on TV struggle in this same way, seeing Veronica face these challenges instead is a welcome role reversal that still feels completely in character. In fact, everything that occurs between Logan and Veronica throughout the season is well done, completely thought out, and true to both characters.

But for all the good, and for all the fun it is to return to Neptune and watch Veronica continue to be smarter than everyone around her, the new season isn't without its faults. A major twist near the end of the season feels like it belongs in a different series entirely, like it was added more for shock value than anything else, and I worry about its lasting implications and how it might affect the possibility of another season. If it's an attempt by Thomas and the writers to convince Hulu to grant the series more episodes to explore the aftermath, it's a big swing, and not one I am sure will pay off.

It's unfortunate that one bad decision in a sea of good ones can so easily color the rest of a finished product, but there's a very good chance that is exactly what will happen for many fans. If they can get past it, there absolutely could be life left in Veronica Mars. For most of the season, the show is a lot of fun, balancing its well-honed sense of humor — many times at the expense of fan-favorite character Dick Casablancas (Ryan Hansen) — with Keith and Veronica's powerful family dynamic and a sometimes predictable but nevertheless engaging central mystery. There were many times throughout the season I found myself wishing Kristen Bell would never stop playing Veronica, that we never stop getting to spend time with what might be one of the best and weirdest supporting casts on TV after FX's Justified (another series I would kill to revisit in the future). And to an extent, I still feel that way; Veronica is one of the most competent characters on TV. After 15 years, she's now an old friend, and I'd rather spend time with her than most anyone else. But after these eight episodes, I also won't be surprised if this is the end of her story, and if it is, it's a somewhat disappointing one.

All eight episodes of Veronica Mars debut Friday, July 26 on Hulu.

#veronica mars hulu revival #vm spoilers

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