#what character starts their story knowing everything?? that’s the whole point of a character arc

[xmaruu11]

Hello! Fellow comic writer here ^-^ Hope you and Doody are taking a little downtime after the recent update!

I discovered DH just after the Mother Spore arc, and I was curious how quickly the series grew to the audience it has now. Was it steady and gradual or did something give it a boost all at once?

I HAD THIS ASK SITTING IN MY ASKBOX FOR MONTHS CUZ I WANNA TALK SO BAD ABOUT IT !! BUT LIFE HAPPENED AND I COULDNT

Get ready for story time!

A lot of people think DDVAU started in 2024, after mother spore. But it didn't. Yes the boom of the story was January-February 2024, but the story has been going on since 2022, November 2022.

When we started DDVAU Doody and I were both University students, in our second year im pretty sure, so the updates didn't have a schedule and there wasn't an overarching plot. The idea for the mother spore arc happened in january / february 2023. But at that point we were working on chapter 10 and the valentines special. And then life happened, personal stuff happened and we took a hiatus until August 2023, and then December 2023. Again, it took,, time...

DDVAU had a small following at that time, and both of us were okay with that, we weren't expecting the amount of support it had during that time (2k notes per update), we felt overwhelmed with love at that point!

Then mother spore part 1 happened, december 2023. That was the first time I decided to go crazy on twitter and start posting with // DDVAU spoilers, and just be a fan of my best friend work. I didn't know that by doing that, it called a lot of people attention. This chapter ended up in a cliffhanger AND it showed a lot of other characters that we never shown before, so a lot of people were interested because their favorite guy appeared! Also we had multiple pretty cute moments between characters. Then people started livetweeting and sharing their opinion using DDVAU spoilers. It kinda snowballed after that. People asked what it was and people shared.

Doody and I thought it was gonna just be that, one simple update and then it stopped. BUT IT DIDNT! Then February 2024, Mother Spore 2 came out, and the whole process of last time repeated. And since this one had more action, everyone was more curious and more interested in what was going on. I keep tweeting and interacting with fans, cuz I am patient 0, DDVAU biggest fan.

THEN the DDVAU server happened, and a lot of people started joining, and I joined as well. People shared fanart, theories, we were able to chat and be nerds with each other. It build up hype for the next hiatus since again.. Doody and I were still university students.

Mother Spore and the end of volume 1 dropped in August 2024. The process repeated again, I also streamed again to keep the hype up. Doody and I yapped for hours and shared fun tweets and live reactions.

AND THEN, the first merch drop happened and once again people were surprised and sharing their thoughts and ideas and everything. Then our lovely friends and guys at the DDVAU server, planned an entire Zine for christmas to surprise doody and I, which again CRAZY!!

Then volume 2 happened, we started uploading it to webtoon and just kinda, kept doing what we like. The monthly schedule helps to build up hype, monthly streams and just,, having fun with my friend helps a lot.

But of course, nothing would have happened if we didnt have so many lovely and wonderful people that just support everything we do. All the lovely people who buy merch and support the kofi (since its the only way we actually get paid as an indie project), all the lovely people who are in the discord, share on twitter and tumblr and tiktok and literally anywhere.

Its always great and so lovely :D

DDVAU growth didnt happened overnight, we worked for a year before mother spore exploded, and then we just kept sharing our passion and love for this story, causing so many more people two get interested.

This is a dream came true, and I wanna thank everyone for letting us live in it

[sodapopper]

I have something to say about Soda, and y’all are not going to like it. But I have to speak my truth.

I absolutely love that as a fandom we’re starting to humanize him and recognize his character for more than just a comedic bystander. But sometimes it feels like the pendulum now swings too far in the other direction, and some of these takes have turned him into a completely different character.

Yes, Soda is more than just his sweetness. He’s got anger and recklessness and grief, too. But exploring and developing that hidden depth shouldn’t be at the expense of his compassion and good-nature, which are still fundamental parts of his character. The sweetness doesn’t stop existing just because he’s also capable of darkness. They can and should coexist: that’s the entire point of complexity.

I keep seeing posts that use Ponyboy’s unreliable narration to argue away Soda’s sweetness, and I’ll be honest, it irritates me. Ponyboy is misguided, but he’s not outright wrong about what he observes. Darry is hard and cold. Johnny is frightened and nervous. Dally is tough and mean. And Soda is reckless and compassionate. Ponyboy might miss the subtlety of motivation (Darry is harsh, but not because he hates his brother) but he’s truthful about what’s externally obvious.

And yes, Ponyboy idolizes Soda, but the cause of his hero worship is rooted in Soda’s kindness towards him. If Darry were more emotionally present, Ponyboy would likely idolize him, too. But Ponyboy’s hero worship doesn’t cause him to erase Soda’s flaws. In fact, he calls them out on multiple occasions—Soda’s recklessness, his academic failures, his inability to take anything seriously. Pony is even embarrassed by Soda when Cherry asks about him dropping out.

Similarly important to note is that Ponyboy isn't the only one who puts Soda on a golden pedestal. Darry is equally guilty of idealizing his brother, and it's because of the emotional labor Soda does for his family; not because Ponyboy has crafted a completely different version of his brother for the readers.

The fandom wants a complex Soda, and so do I. But complexity doesn’t equate darkness! His core traits don't need to be erased to prop up a version of the character that’s unrecognizably gritty and twisted. Soda is interesting because he’s kind. He’s interesting because he’s emotionally intelligent. He’s interesting because he listens. These things don’t make him perfect! They’re both his strength and his weakness.

Soda who lets himself be walked over. Soda who keeps the peace at the expense of voicing his honest opinion. Soda who hides pain with a manic glimmer in his eyes. Soda who holds it in until he can’t. Soda who explodes in grief or anger when pushed to his breaking point. Soda who can’t sit still. Soda who embraces his “stupidity” like a badge of honor to hide how much it hurts. Soda who nobody really knows, because he protects himself by focusing on others. Soda with a fear of abandonment. Glass child Sodapop. Beautiful and invisible. Slowly being killed by the pressure of a role he’s not strong enough to perform.

And yes, he's also angry. He's also reckless. He's also easily distracted and can't sit still and likes to fight. But good characterization happens when you explore these traits within the context of the other ones. The gentleness and roughness are not mutually exclusive; they can and should go hand in hand.

Instead of “oh I bet Ponyboy is lying, Soda probably yells at him all the time,” consider: what in Soda’s life would be hurtful enough to push him to yell at Ponyboy? Instead of “Ponyboy’s naive, I bet Soda drinks like crazy,” consider: what deeper motivation might keep Soda from drinking?

That's complexity.

Of course everyone has a right to interpret the character differently. And I'm not arguing against headcanons and aus—I just wish we could recognize them as headcanons, instead of trying to twist canon into supporting our own personal characterization. The dark takes are certainly interesting, and fun to toss around. But please, don't discredit the rich depth of his canon characterization as "not gritty enough;" Soda doesn't have to drink, scream, or be Dally to be interesting.

Make him go feral, please—but consider doing it in a way that makes sense for his character, and expands on who he is, instead of erasing it.

[goldentigerfestival]

Using this as an audio reference for the posts I'm making, but to summarize:

Yuri starts out mad.

Yuri tries to calm himself down with a deep breath to ask for details instead of going through it angry.

Flynn doesn't say "like a good knight" in the sense of putting himself down. He simply says "as a knight" (the tl here doesn't use that, but with that included it's basically along the lines of "even though I had doubts, as a knight, I was determined to follow my orders").

Once Yuri has answers he calms down significantly.

Yuri uses " 'ttaku", which is a shortened down version of "mattaku" (Yuri often shortens words and speaks very casually), which in this particular situation basically would mean "geez", or "good grief". In this manner, it's expressive of exasperation/frustration/etc.

Yuri never mentions that "Flynn told him what to do" like the dub does (because in fact Flynn did not ever tell Yuri what to do. He only gave Sodia and his other knights orders. He expressed his own desire to take responsibility, but never told Yuri and his friends what to do).

At this point you can tell the anger has gone out of him and that he's calmed down, now that Flynn is approaching this with admission and responsibility.

Sodia is asking that Flynn returns as soon as possible (I believe this was a general translation error).

Flynn's thank you to Yuri is tonally much more heartfelt.

Yuri's response and gratefulness at Flynn coming back to himself is tonally much more heartfelt, relieved and sincere.

[luna-azzurra]

10 Writing Things That Have Saved My Creative Soul (and Sanity)

↳ If your character’s arc isn’t making you slightly emotional or existential, it’s probably not finished. If they start and end the story the same person, that’s not a character arc—it’s a flatline. Make them squirm, learn, lose, grow. Bonus points if they make you question your own moral compass in the process.

↳ Worldbuilding is not a license to drown your reader in lore like it’s Game of Thrones on steroids. If you have to write a wiki page to understand your own plot, fine...but that doesn’t mean your reader has to read it. Give us breadcrumbs, not a 12-course feast on page one.

↳ If the theme of your story can’t be summed up in one slightly aggressive sticky note, you’re probably overcomplicating it. (“This book is about choosing yourself even when no one else does”—boom, theme. Now go make your characters suffer for it.)

↳ You will hate your manuscript somewhere between 30k and 50k words. That’s your cue to keep going, not quit. It’s like the literary version of hitting mile 18 in a marathon. Everything hurts, but that means you're doing it right.

↳ That “genius idea” you had at 2 a.m.? Save it. Write it down. But don’t drop everything for it. New ideas are seductive chaos demons. Your current project deserves monogamy… at least until the second draft.

↳ A character’s greatest fear is a shortcut to their heart. Forget favorite color or coffee order...what keeps them up at night? What would destroy them if it came true?

↳ If you don’t know how to end your story, figure out what question it’s been asking the whole time. Once you know the question, the ending becomes the answer. Maybe not a happy answer, but a satisfying one.

↳ No one’s going to write your weird little story the way you will. That’s your superpower. So go ahead and write the morally gray necromancer love triangle in space. Your people are out there. And they’re hungry for it.

↳ You are allowed to be a slow writer. You are allowed to be a fast writer. You are not allowed to be a cruel writer—to yourself. The world will criticize your art for free. Don’t do their job for them inside your own head.

↳ Some stories just aren’t meant to be novels. And that’s okay. Maybe it's a short story. A play. A fever dream disguised as a poem. The shape doesn’t matter. The story does. Let it tell you what it wants to be.

[gffa]

What really kills me about Skeleton Crew being so good is that, at this point, I'm not sure it matters. The ratings have been terrible for the show, despite that I don't think I've ever really seen anyone say anything against it, which I think means that people are just absolutely burnt out on these live action shows and I can't really blame them. I've enjoyed things about all of them, I've enthusiastically loved several of them, but even I'm tired of stories that feel like they're half a story. To the point that, even when one of the shows defies that, it doesn't matter anymore. Skeleton Crew is the first show in a long time that feels like you can actually watch it without feeling like they're holding back something for another season or even another show all together. (Maybe Andor and Obi-Wan Kenobi escape this to some degree, but not as well as Skeleton Crew.) I think the idea is that they want that MCU kind of tie-in connectivity, they want a big shared universe that gets everyone hyped up to go watch everything--the problem is that D+ Star Wars just is not good enough or fun enough consistently to pull that off. So little of it is new, it's just filling in the gaps and telling half a story. Even The Mandalorian, which started out so much fun and a breath of fresh air, fell hard into this--it tells half of the story of the fall of Mandalore, it throws in characters that their primary story is in another series all together, it undercuts its own characters' arcs by having major moments take place in spin-off series. Very little feels whole anymore. And you can get away with that when you have a strong series of movies to build a foundation on, like with the originals and the prequels, but Disney has so thoroughly fucked up with the structure and direction of the sequels that what should be fertile ground for covering stories is leaning back harder on the originals and the prequels rather than the sequels. And then the shows themselves aren't building anything new and almost nothing ever finishes. Nothing is a satisfying arc or conclusion because The Story Can't Be Over Yet. (This is why I think OWK and Andor work best, they're leading up to an ending we already know. There is already a built-in end point. Rebels as well had an end point!) I think that's what Disney has really fucked up--almost nothing ever ends because they don't know what's going to be a hit, so they want the option to bring everything back and never let go of anything. They can't give The Mandalorian an actual story arc because they don't know where this story is going. They can't give Ahsoka a complete story because Felony can't let go of her. So even when Skeleton Crew comes along, tells a story that's satisfying in and of itself, has a satisfying conclusion and arc, it doesn't matter because so many people are exhausted and just don't care anymore. And I'm not sure Disney even realizes that's a major problem, because they're too focused on wanting to never let go of anything.

[technoturian]

Regardless of my feelings about the BoS as a whole in the Fallout series, Maximus as a character exceeded all my expectations.

Maximus, honestly, to me, was the most nuanced and best acted character in the series. His situations were fantastical and yet the way he reacted to it all was so grounded. He was like a prestige drama character in a series full of cartoons. Don't get me wrong, I like the cartoons. Fallout leans heavily into parody and it's totally on brand. But Maximus' entire emotional arc was so understated and I really appreciated it.

He isn't a very vocal OR excessively emotive character because he knows being vulnerable hurts him. He shapes himself to that idealized memory of the knight in the armor even as he doesn't seem to really understand or care for the beliefs behind the armor. He's failing his classes as an aspirant. When talking of the BoS beliefs, he throws in a "or whatever". That part of it doesn't matter to him. The armor IS his belief system.

His whole story is about the cycle of violence and toxicity. The bullies who beat him. The abuse he endures. He wants power so that he can escape it but once he gets that chance he's doomed to perpetuate it, because that power is coming from the system. It's tainted. Deep down he doesn't want revenge, he doesn't even want power for power's sake, he wants safety. And he wants to be the hero from his memory, he wants the strength to save himself from this cycle.

And yet, he just keeps making he wrong choices. Over and over and over. He can't get out of it.

And then Lucy throws him a lifeline. And it takes someone from outside of the cycle to break through. And then he makes the choice to do the right thing even though it means making himself weaker, making himself less safe. He chooses to do the right thing for the first time in the show. And it means finally letting go of his dream, the armor.

And he sees a light at the end of the tunnel. He thinks his reward is going to be Vault 33, he's going to be safe and happy with someone who cares about him and makes him feel like a real, good person.

And by the end of the series, he's trapped in the cycle again.

There is just something so delicious about someone getting everything they wanted at the start and being miserable about it. There's something so REAL about wanting to be something but every instinct makes you sabotage yourself every step of the way.

And the thing is, he had all of these little moments of genuineness, selfishness, pettiness, virtue, I genuinely didn't know what he was going to do for most of the show. I thought he might turn on Lucy at some point. I honestly, truly thought he had sabotaged Dane even though Dane was his only friend. He is so morally hard to pin down because he's so full of life's little hypocrisies. His ideals and his feelings are in conflict so much and he doesn't have to look anguished for you to understand that. You just see it in his resigned stares, in his hesitance and his ultimate actions.

I just... I really loved Maximus. Bravo to Aaron Moten.

[lurkingshan]

A Brief History of Queer Representation in Modern Kdrama

Earlier this week, totally unrelated to Heesu in Class 2, @twig-tea and I were making a list of kdramas with proper queer representation, because Twig loves to track queer things and I love to make highly specific lists. In light of all the discussion around Heesu and its appeal to a mainstream kdrama audience, we thought it would be helpful to share as context for what Heesu’s creators set out to do, how it compares to Love in the Big City and its goals, and why both shows are so significant for those who are not as familiar with this media landscape. We wrote the below together (strap in, folks, it's a long one).

As always, let us be clear what we are talking about with this list. We’re only looking at modern mainstream kdrama, so this list is not inclusive of Korean queer cinema or QL dramas, both of which have a rich history of their own. And when we say queer representation, we mean canonically queer characters that are acknowledged as such in the text of the show, if not by saying the words, at least by openly acknowledging same sex attraction. If there’s anything we know about queer people on the internet, it’s that our community can read gay subtext into anything, but that’s not what we’re doing here. For this list we are only interested in depictions of LGBTQ+ people that are clear and spelled out for anyone watching a show.  In addition, for the purposes of this list we are talking about intentional inclusion of queer characters with a proper role in the story, not nominal nods to queer people existing (like every Hong Seok Cheon cameo in a drama), comedic gender bending without real reckoning with sexuality (ala The King’s Affection), use of queer people as the butt of a joke (glaring at you Vincenzo), queerness in psychosexual dreams to titillate and generate buzz (hiiiii Friendly Rivalry), or subtextual gay tension between two same sex actors who happen to have chemistry (waves hello to The Devil Judge). The point of this exercise is to chart the evolution of significant queer representation in kdrama—both good and bad—not to document every gay character that ever appeared for two seconds on screen. That said, while Shan has watched several hundred kdramas and Twig has tried to watch everything gay on the planet, it’s possible we missed something that should be here, so let us know if you think we did (though please do mind the criteria and don’t send us an impassioned essay about why Beyond Evil should count). 

With that, let’s begin our walk through of the last two decades of queer characters in kdrama. 

Coffee Prince (2007) 

Among the most famous dramas on this list, Coffee Prince kicked off queer rep in modern kdrama with a classic gender bender in which Go Eun Chan, a girl, pretends to be a boy for Reasons. But what made it stand out is that her love interest falls for her while he still thinks she’s a man and has a whole sexual identity crisis and bisexual coming out process. Choi Han Gyul (and Gong Yoo), you will always be famous! This show was sincerely groundbreaking, not only for depicting a male romance lead struggling with his sexuality, but also including lots of gender fuckery for the female lead. It’s still one of the most significant queer kdramas ever made.

Life is Beautiful (2010) 

This show is notable for how high it set the bar and how nothing has reached it since. Yang Tae Sub is our central character in this 63-hour ensemble family drama, and his arcs struggling with the closet, falling in love, coming out, commitment, and marriage (yes: marriage! In 2010!), are surprisingly realistic and touching without being too cliche. Kyung Soo and Tae Sub start as a casual hookup, and they have to recalibrate as their feelings change (and yes, they kiss on screen and the show is clear that they have sex throughout the series). They fight, they make up, and as their relationship deepens they have other problems in their lives they support one another through—their gayness is not the only or even the most interesting thing about them. It’s also notable that both of these actors (Song Chang Eui and Lee Sang Woo) were established kdrama stars before taking these roles. 

Secret Garden (2010)

This het romance features a side character (played by our beloved Lee Jong Suk) who is a young musical prodigy pursued for his talents by the second lead, a senior musician. Over the course of the story we learn that he’s gay and harboring feelings for his would-be mentor. His plot is minor, but he ends the story happy and successful in his career, if not in a relationship. It’s small scale representation in the grand scheme of things, but one of only a handful of decent depictions of a gay person in kdrama at that point.

Reply 1997 (2012) 

This wildly popular drama (at the time, it was one of the highest rated cable dramas in history) that spawned two follow-up iterations features a gay character, Joon Hee, who is in love with his long time best friend, Yoon Jae, and confides his feelings to their other best friend, Shi Won. Of course, this show is ultimately Yoon Jae and Shi Won’s love story, so Joon Hee does not get his happy romance ending, but his friends and the show treat him with kindness and compassion, and his character was well received by audiences. 

Reply 1994 (2013)

Similar to its predecessor, this drama featured a side character with a gay subplot, but this time it was more about questioning his identity. Bingguere is a character whose arc is all about his confusion and indecision, and that extended to his sexuality when he struggled to understand his attraction to the male lead. Ultimately, he moves past those feelings and we learn his partner in the future is a woman, and the drama doesn’t really clarify where his sexuality landed. It’s kind of weak in terms of explicit queer rep, but showing a man grappling with his sexuality in a very popular family drama still feels significant.

Seonam Girls High School Investigations (2014) 

While most of their content is limited to two episodes of this 14-episode high school drama, Eun Bin and Soo Yeon have, to our knowledge, the first lesbian kiss on Korean television, which earns them a place on this list. They are an established couple struggling with how their relationship is a risk for them (because it can be and is used against them). Their relationship doesn’t survive to the end of the series, but they are treated with compassion and their humanity is underscored by the narrative. They also spark an important conversation among the main characters about whether they should be helped because they’re gay, which was a little better intentioned than it was executed, but the show had the spirit. 

Perseverance Goo Hae Ra (2015)

In a show about aspiring musicians forming a group to take a second shot at stardom, Jang Goon (portrayed by solo idol Park Kwang Seon) is one of the core group members with a heartwarming arc about acceptance. His story is about his father coming to terms with him being an idol and being gay. He has a one-sided confession scene that is decently done, and the scene where his father accepts him knowing the truth (after having been outed against his will) is genuinely moving. It was also touching to see the girl who originally crushed on him support him once she found out about his sexuality. 

Hogu’s Love (2015) 

This drama was considered progressive for its time, as its core plot is about Hogu, a man who decides to support his first love when he finds out she is pregnant with someone else’s child. In addition to that, side character Kang Chul has an arc where he experiences attraction to Hogu and tries to sort out his feelings, considering whether he identifies as gay before ultimately deciding he does not. It’s not the best rep we’ve ever seen, but it was part of an interesting attempt by a drama to explore complicated social and identity issues.

The Lover (2015)

Lee Jun Jae and Takuya (played by Lee Jae Joon who was also in the gay film Night Flight (2014) and Takuya of jpop group CROSS GENE) are roommates in this series about four couples in an apartment building. Their story starts as a comedy, in which Jun Jae and Takuya end up in ship moments that are played off by the narrative as jokes and misunderstandings, but then they catch feelings for real. We see one of the characters struggle with his queer awakening and there is a happy ending. Using the actors’ real names was a choice, and led to some seriously disruptive RPF shipping; but it was refreshing to have an active idol not only play gay but in a romance with a happy ending. 

Prison Playbook (2017)

Another ensemble show with a queer side character; Loony, one of the main character Je Hyuk’s cell mates, is notable for his queerness not being used as a joke and not being the core of the character’s arc. Instead, this character struggles with addiction and how that affects his relationship, which is only incidentally gay. His story is moving and well developed, especially considering the size of this cast, but it doesn’t get a ton of screen time.

Romance is a Bonus Book (2019)

The queer rep in this drama is minor but overall positive, as we learn that the male lead Eun Ho’s ex-girlfriend, who he is still friendly with, ended their relationship because she fell in love with a woman. The show presents her as a lovely person who helps the female lead several times and is happy in her lesbian relationship, and we even get to see her with her partner briefly. A small win for sapphic representation in a very popular Netflix drama.

Moment at Eighteen (2019)

Jung Oh Je (RIP Moonbin) is a side character friend of the main lead. His sexuality becomes part of the plot when he is confessed to by a friend of the female lead, and he admits that he has a crush on the second male lead (Ma Hwi Young). While the characters in the show are mixed in their response, it’s clear the story is on the side of treating Oh Je with compassion. 

Be Melodramatic (2019) 

This is an ensemble show centered on a group of friends who move in together to support a grieving young woman, Lee Eun Jung, and one of the housemates is her younger brother Lee Hyo Bong, a gay musician with a long-term partner. He is a side character and his most significant plot is about supporting his sister, with his sexuality and relationship part of his characterization rather than an active story thread. It’s a positive depiction and the way his sexuality is presented as just part of who he is felt significant at the time. 

Love with Flaws (2019) 

Joo Won Suk (RIP Cha in Ha) is one of the FL’s older brothers, and while not the focus of the drama he gets his own fully developed arc, including the mentorship of queer side character Choi Ho Dol. The queer rep in this show covers suicidality, the loneliness of the closet, bullying, solidarity, and fear of parental shame. That makes it sound depressing, but it’s a hopeful story about the character moving out of depression and into self-acceptance, has one of the best scenes depicting gay acceptance from a father in any show, and both Won Suk and Ho Dol have a happy ending (including for their romance). 

Itaewon Class (2020)

The first drama on this list to feature a transgender character, Itaewon Class is about a group of social misfits trying to launch a restaurant on a trendy street in Itaewon. Ma Hyun Yi, a transgender woman saving money for her gender affirming surgery, is among the gang. Her story is not a big focus for the drama, but she gets a nice arc about coming into herself and gaining recognition for her talents as a chef, and the other characters always respect her identity. It’s pretty solid representation for a side character.

Sweet Munchies (2020)

This drama tries to tackle the problems of homophobia and appropriating queerness but misses the mark on both. The queer character in this show, Kang Tae Wan, is here to function as a driving force and conscience for the main male lead and female lead; he’s essentially the second lead but never had a chance (though he didn’t know it, since the main lead is pretending to be gay for clout). Tae Wan is a good character, but the narrative doesn’t care much about him or about queer people in general, it’s focused on how heterosexuals experience queerness. Not exactly amazing queer representation, whatever its intentions.

Run On (2020) 

This drama features both a gay character and an asexual character, both of whom are written respectfully and get proper coming out scenes. There is also some messiness around one of the main characters appropriating queer identity as a way to avoid the pressures of her patriarchy, and the drama knows she’s wrong for that. This was one of the first instances of a kdrama acknowledging queer people as a regular part of the world around us and not singular oddities, and it was nice to see multiple facets of queer representation in one show.

Mr. Queen (2020)

This gender bender retains its place on the list because the main character (a man who awakens in the body of a Queen during the Joseon dynasty) openly struggles with his gender dysphoria as well as what it means that he’s attracted to a man, and these struggles are present for the bulk of the show. The character also has sex with both men and women while in that body. It’s one of the better representations of gender swap and feels queer, even when the relationship on screen has the guise of heterosexuality. 

Mine (2021)

In this drama about ambitious women married to powerful men who struggle to break free from their constraints, one of the main characters reunites with her first love—another woman. The drama follows Jung Seo Hyun as she struggles to acquire the power she needs to live as she wants, and she ultimately achieves her goal, reuniting with her lover at the story’s end. It’s the first kdrama with a lesbian character in a major role who gets her happy romance ending. 

Move to Heaven (2021)

Despite only being featured in episode 5, this was a good story that garnered a lot of attention in a popular Netflix drama, so for cultural impact reasons alone it belongs on this list. We start the episode with Jung Soo Hyun’s death, but this is a show about finding closure after death, so for once this death doesn’t feel like bury your gays. This is a compassionate tragedy in which we see how fear held Soo Hyun back from his relationship with Ian Park while he was alive, but his belongings at death indicate he was getting ready to face his fear and move to the US to marry Ian after all. Through the main characters of the show, Ian gets the closure of knowing Soo Hyun loved him. 

Nevertheless (2021) 

Yoon Sol and Seo Ji Wan have a typical plot for side characters (they’re in the female lead’s friend group) with a friends-to-lovers arc that depicts the fear and frustration when both friends are closeted and uncertain about risking the friendship but reach the point where they can’t pretend anymore. Since they’re both women, this felt pretty radical. They got a good romantic arc and a happy ending, if not a lot of screen time.

Under the Queen’s Umbrella (2022)

In this sageuk, the fourth prince is living a double life, hiding away makeup and women’s clothing that they wear in secret. The character is depicted as trans, but given the setting, explicit language and modern terminology (including altered pronouns) are not used in this side plot. When the prince’s mother finds out, she supports her child to have an artist paint a portrait of their true self, and ultimately, the prince leaves the royal family to go live a more authentic life in isolation in a bittersweet resolution. 

A Time Called You (2023)

The queer rep in this drama comes in the form of a brief backstory montage for two gay characters, one of whom (Yeon Jun) is in a coma. We learn that he ended up in this state after getting into a car accident while in the process of confessing to the guy he mutually liked (Tae Ha), who was killed in the accident. From there, Yeon Jun’s body is taken over by a heterosexual character (it’s a whole time loop thing). This entry is mostly notable for featuring a high profile cameo from Rowoon playing Tae Ha, and unfortunately, for being a fairly textbook example of the bury your gays trope. In 2023!

Wedding Impossible (2024) 

This disaster of a drama purported to finally feature a gay character in a prominent role that drove the narrative—in a story about Do Han pretending to marry his longtime friend to avoid being forced to marry another woman—but Do Han ended up a minor side character in his own story when the show chose to focus nearly all its attention on his brother’s het romance. Worse, the other characters treated him terribly and the story blamed every problem on his sexuality. This show was straight up homophobic and it was a significant regression for queer depictions in mainstream Korean media. 

Bitter Sweet Hell (2024)

image credit @respectthepetty

Choi Doi Hyun (played by Park Jae Chan of Semantic Error) is the closeted son of the main character, struggling with how hiding his secret affects his school life and his relationship with his family. His story ends happily with Jun Ho in the US, which felt like a win after the above history with kdrama, but because his secret being his queerness is hidden for most of the story, we don’t get to see it inform the narrative much except in retrospect. 

Squid Game 2 (2024)

The most recent entry on our list features Park Sung Hoon as Hyeon Ju, a transgender woman who enters the life or death game at the center of this drama to earn money to move to Thailand and get gender affirming surgery. While her inclusion wasn't entirely groundbreaking, Hyeon Ju was a well-developed character with a sympathetic backstory who quickly became a fan favorite, notable given Squid Game's popularity and broad international audience. 

Bringing Better Queer Stories to Mainstream Drama Audiences

With all that context established, we have been contemplating how queer creators in Korea can reach a wider audience with their stories and ensure queer representation in kdrama is both more common and more authentic. We look to Love in the Big City and Heesu in Class 2 as a start, as we would argue that both shows exist in the gray space between mainstream kdrama and kbl. They both leverage kdrama style and structure to tell queer stories that include, but are not limited to, gay romances. They both had unusual distribution and battled to even get released and in front of an audience, with LITBC rushing its episodes out amidst public protests and Heesu sitting on the shelf for two years before being quietly released on a streaming platform. And they both had goals to reach an audience beyond the usual BL viewers, albeit with wildly different tones and themes in their stories. The BL audience is too niche to effect the social change that queer creators are seeking, and the limited runtime, genre tropes, and laser-focus on romance means it is harder to make wider social and cultural points in a BL story (it doesn’t hit the same when gay characters are treated as human in a story that takes place in the no homophobia BL bubble). And as we’ve seen from this walk through the past, there are real limits to queer representation that is not created by queer people or informed by their lived experiences.

As you can see from reviewing this list, these two shows were the first kdramas in well over a decade (after the only other example, Life Is Beautiful) to center on a gay main character whose journey drove the story, and they were doing this in the context of a media landscape that rarely elevates queer people beyond minor side plots, still regularly fumbles on respectful representation, and in which representation seems to be getting worse. Love in the Big City set out to show a young queer man’s life in all its glorious messiness. Go Young was not an easy character, and the show did not hold back on his flaws or shy away from either the joy or the struggle he found in his sexuality. Heesu is about a younger character and so his struggles are centered around coming of age and first love, but it similarly depicts a beautifully flawed young gay man coming to terms with himself and asks the audience to empathize with and care about him as his loved ones in the story do. Where LITBC uses a unique storytelling structure to draw in the viewer and highlight what makes Young’s life feel different, Heesu roots itself in familiar drama beats and queer-coded side plots in the hopes that the audience will see and be comforted by the familiar in Heesu’s world. 

Both of these stories, in their own way, speak to a mainstream audience and ask for queer existence and queer humanity to be acknowledged. And this does not make them problematic as queer works, because they accomplish their goals of speaking to a wider audience while still being true to queer experiences. Given how scant decent queer representation has been in kdramas over the last twenty years (consider the size of the list above against the fact that there are well over 1500 modern kdramas, and so few of the above listed characters are mains or even significant sides in these dramas), more shows like LITBC and Heesu are needed to bridge this gap. We sincerely hope they find the support they need to get made.

[emptyjunior]

Can I say how much I love how Ouran High School handles the rich boy/poor girl in love trope. 

Like I absolutely believe it’s discussions about classism and elitism to this Day still hold up! 

I will admit there is so much weird stuff in ouran😭, but we see the Handsome ‘Unlimited Money’ Male Lead a LOT in anime and I feel ouran gets a lot of points of the characterisation SO right, that a lot of other shows just don’t! 

Ouran does the whole love story/harem/all the boys want brown hair girl that we project on, trope. Like they do that, but they show that at the foundation, the root of all of it, those rich boys are JEALOUS. They aren’t approaching Haruhi with the need to protect and own her, at their core the rich are envious of her! Even though they have everything, they want what she has! 

Like we see in the real world with how the rich cosplay as poor! And say "ohhhh I'm so broke please venmo me for lunch" and wear their ripped jeans and strained sweaters and take pictures at the met gala with a box of McDonalds fries in their hand. 

The classist comments made towards Haruhi ARE comedic relief, but the joke isn’t on characters like Haruhi, the joke is on THEM. 

They are the ones who can’t do anything! They are the ones who are stilted and emotionally closed off! They are the ones who can’t make an instant coffee or go to a mall without help! 

THAT is why Haruhi is the center of this harem, why she is the one they’re chasing. They are jealous of her insight and world experience from living independently, from living a REAL life. That is her enviable trait. Haruhi GETS people! And they don’t. Their wealth has isolated them and now there is a barrier between these characters and the rest of the world and they have no idea how to navigate it. 

And this is the foundation of 90% of the problems/conflict in the show! 

The holiday ep when Hikaru has feelings because Haruhi reconnects with Nice Guy Arai? Hikaru says he doesn’t like this guy for all these reasons and most of them are like ‘he’s just some nobody from nothing who only knows Haruhi cause they went to some stupid public school together’. Like okay? Haruhi has all of those ‘bad traits’ as well but you still seem to like her?  

Because it’s not about that, it’s never about that, it’s not even about the love rival/romance angle (at least not completely).  

Hikaru is scared and embarrassed! He already was when they got there, when these rich boys crashed Haruhi’s summer to find out she is an employee here and she is working with her own two hands. This is not a break for her! And then he’s so worried when Haruhi and Arai find each other because what they have is so untouchable to him. Same background, same class, they can meet each other’s needs! And know the other's needs! And this is a chasm that Hikaru has no idea how to cross so he starts lashing out. 

And that episode concludes with Hikaru being told about Haruhi’s fear of thunderstorms, finally actually listening and empathizing with what that means, and then going to her and giving her the stuff she needs to deal with that problem (blanket, headphones, support, protection etc.). 

He has to LEARN that none of those poor people inherently know all this secret knowledge! They just care and ask each other stuff! You can ask Haruhi what she's afraid of and then help her with that! It was always this simple! Just because you’re not the same class as her and knowing her isn’t as easy as it is with people the same as you, doesn’t mean you’ll never know! Learn! Listen! Keep trying! 

Ouran shows their rich characters being hurt by their wealth. Their elitists mindset does NOT benefit them and they’re only narratively rewarded when they break out of it, THAT’S why the arcs are so good. 

(And also while we’re here, I LOVE when they do eps that show Tamaki’s character is actually a parallel of Haruhi’s. Tamaki grew up as an illegitimate child, hidden away in France with his mother. He knows what it is to not be at the top of the food chain, and he learns the skills to keep living! Tamaki is a survivor in a world run by a man who was ashamed of him and did not want him. That can destroy a child, but Tamaki doesn’t let it. He learns how to work people and he learns that belief in yourself is the most powerful asset someone can have. And this is the life experience he imparts onto Kyoya and this SAVES Kyoya, who was barreling towards a black pit of despair and chasing his father’s shadow. The ‘poor’ characters of this show have power that the rich people desperately desire, and in the end they learn that it’s not something you take it’s something you build for yourself.) 

[scurvyboy]

Not to beat a dead horse or whatever, but you don’t see fiddlestan being healthy at any point? I feel like your version of them would have most of their issues figured out by the time they’re old and stuff. Can you talk about their dynamic a bit more pretty please? (I know you just had an ask about this so sorry to keep bringing it up aha 🤪. I’m obsessed with them, and I love your art/au and want to understand them.)

the basis of why i like the fiddlestan ship is strictly because it doesn't work and is doomed to fail. it's a relationship between two extremely damaged people that are only together for transactional reasons.

the way i see it starting: fiddleford comes back to gravity falls after being kicked out by emma may in hopes that he can patch things up with ford. he finds stan there instead and decides to help him fix the portal despite his crushing anxiety about it because he has nowhere else to go. they're both stuck alone in this situation and urges become apparent. things are awkward for a while before they start banging fuck nasty brokeback mountain style.

fiddleford wants stan because he's delusional and still in love with ford. sure he grows to appreciate differences between them and has a separate chemistry with stan, but he is also completely out of touch with reality and rebounding off of his failed marriage with a man who looks just like the one he cheated on his wife with. working on the portal triggers intense panic attacks, which makes him use the memory gun more, which makes him less and less stable.

stan is working himself to death trying to get ford back and just needs affection. the sexual aspect of their relationship helps him blow off steam, but fiddleford also treats him like a person with a brain and allows him to be emotionally vulnerable for the first time in a long while. having someone finally break down his walls is equal parts frightening and addictive for him; he wants to be loved so badly but knows deep down that fiddleford doesn't actually love him, just the person he represents. he's just second best again.

things start to fall apart when it becomes clear that fixing the portal will be impossible without the other journals. fiddleford basically gives up trying to do the work in earnest and just lives in a domestic fantasy world. stan starts to get more and more impatient about the lack of work getting done and the stress makes him a lot more irritated and volatile. the two enter a vicious cycle of violent fights and honeymoon phases until things boil over: stan confronts fiddleford about the memory gun and kicks him out after he tries to use it on him.

post break up fiddleford, now with his cult and savior complex, murder suicides the portal and their affair from both of their memories. however, stan gets his portal memories back being at the shack and goes on to do what he does in canon.

the whole relationship takes place over the course of a few weeks and is as canon compliant as i could manage. i think it's a really fun concept and i think about it all the time.

to be real, i really dislike the idea that all relationships in media have to be healthy and resolved in order to be compelling. the idea that characters NEED to end the story happy and together is just plain unrealistic. i prefer when stories go outside of the limits of "and then they got together and everything was great after that", especially if being in a relationship isn't necessary to a characters arc.

i do think that them getting together when they're older could work and be very nice. however, i also don't think it's entirely necessary, especially since i did make their relationship rotted gutted awful bad. it is cute though, they can kiss and watch tv and marry for taxt purposes i guess.

[kaizokuou-ni-naru]

What! Are your top five reveals in One Piece! Which ones made you go “holy shit” or “hell yeah” the most!

i'm taking reveal here to mean 'points at which previously-hidden information is revealed to the audience,' not just where we're told something new. so:

THE FREEST MAN ON THE SEA: maybe not as dramatic or seismic as some other things on this list, but to me luffy telling rayleigh that to him being the pirate king just means being the freest in the world is the single most important thing we ever learn about luffy's character, and it defines the themes of the whole series. it recontextualizes everything about luffy and the way he interacts with the world and the way he pursues his goal because now we finally know what that goal actually is, and what it means to him. and for the whole first half of the story we don't know this! it's easy to forget because we're, what, six hundred chapters past it now, but we get all the way to sabaody without really knowing what drives luffy, and then we get it and it slides into place perfectly.

WORLD SANK: a recent one, but so satisfying and well-placed. the sunken world reveal is the best kind of big lore reveal, to me, because it's something that makes so much sense it was completely possible to predict it years ago (and people did), and now that it has been confirmed, it's opened up a massive world of implications and questions that are incredibly fun to think about. i'm really excited to see where the story goes with it.

NIKA: i'm sort of rolling everything we learn about gear 5/nika/joyboy in the 1040 chapters of wano together here; i've written at length before on this blog about why i like the nika reveal so much, so i'll just say now that it takes one piece's most fundamental and powerful themes and symbolism (liberation and joy and the sun) which have been built up across the story and reveals to you that those things are a real literal force in the narrative strong enough to turn a draconic tyrant into a garden snake. and having established what he has now about nika, the way oda has continued to explore the implications of that figure existing in the world has been absolutely fabulous to read.

RAIZOU IS SAFE: a smaller and more arc-specific one compared to some of the others on this list, but i just really like the way this reveal is done. the interval between the dressrosa team's arrival on zou and the reveal that raizou was there the whole time isn't even particularly long, but it's the execution which makes it; the devastation of the city, the solemnity of the whole moment, inuarashi and nekomamushi bowing their heads, luffy and the strawhats' reactions. i like the minks a lot, and this is the moment that defines them as a group, as well as establishing the themes of loyalty and sacrifice that will go on to become very prominent in wano.

ROGER WAS DYING: i've talked before about how i really like the handling of roger as a figure and how our knowledge of him evolves and becomes more personal and human over the course of the story. the turning point in that evolution is the introduction of rayleigh; his reveal that roger was not caught, that he turned himself in because he was dying, and that they found the truth of the world there at the end of the grand line. it shifts the whole presentation of the story; we've been told about roger from the very start of the very first chapter, and it's here that we learn the information we thought we had about him has been woefully incomplete. there's a bigger mystery here, one greater than just 'what treasure did roger leave.' and i really like we get this context about roger in the very same scene we learn what it means to luffy to be the pirate king.

[valar-did-me-wrong]

Hey buzzword crowd, here's the simplest, most basic way I could put the core of the problem that imo is happening between you people and most of the fandom..

(won't call you Shippers here because I know some shippers who don't use your language or agree with your opinions )

This is also me trying to convey what I believe is why people have problems with you people's essays & posts (because it is not the ship that most people have problem with, I'll elaborate) maybe this will help prevent future toxicity..

Spoiler it has everything to do with the respect you give other people & their blorbos and nothing to do with everyone except you all being anti-feminist, anti-sex, anti-shipping, anti-biotic, anti-ageing, anti-oxidant, anti-body etc etc etc..

I'll use 3 characters and 5 points, here we go!

(Ditch the namecalling and insults before you interact)

(again this is my opinion & interpretation of the situation)

1. Elrond in Adar's Tent

If you read it as Sauron as Elrond

What it adds to the story: one ship & it's characters' dynamics with each other and othes in that tent

What it takes away from the story: Elrond coming to himself as a leader, his quick thinking, his skill with words and politics, the growth of his character

What it gives Galadriel: a non consenting kiss & more ship dynamics

What it takes away from Galadriel: her friend saying sorry for treating her horribly through out S2

If you read it as Elrond in the tent

What it adds to the story: a young man coming into himself as a future leader, a friend realising his mistake and asking for forgiveness, a half elf being reminded that he has a powerful Maia in his family (he isn't less than any elf lord)

What it takes away from the story: nothing imo because the siege still happens and it doesn't negate Sauron & Galadriel's S1 dynamics so Your ship can still sail

What it gives Galadriel: she gets the apology she deserved and reconciliation with her friend

What it takes away from Galadriel: a non con kiss

You see how your interpretation of this as canon erases a whole character and his arc but the version most Elrond fan's prefer doesn't affect your ship a bit..

Now this interpretation wouldn't have been a problem if you all weren't framing your posts as feminist & show canon & the correct way of interpreting media & then start name calling & insulting anyone and everyone who disagrees.

Just like you guys don't like the show haters on reddit etc trying to disrespect you & the whole Haladriel dynamics, other fan's also don't like to be called assholes, misogynists, conservatives & Haters etc etc for simply liking the show in another way.

2. Celebrimbor and the elven rings

If you read it as Sauron's engagement rings

What it adds to the story: one ship's dynamics

What it takes away from the story: Celebrimbor's part in their creation & his talents as the greatest Elven smith of his time, the show runners statments that Sauron is not there when the rings are being actually forged

What it gives Galadriel: a personalised ring specifically for her from her enemy and all the dynamics of it

What it takes away from Galadriel: her knowledge, her trust in her family member Celebrimbor.. all of which backs her claim that the rings are untouched by Sauron

If you read it as Celebrimbor's elven rings made with Sauron's help

What it adds to the story: Celebrimbor's hardwork, his skills that he has in part learned from his grandfather THE Feanor of Noldor, his ambition, his Feanorian hubris, his partnership of equals with Annatar, call back to his love for Galadriel in a version by Tolkien (for Nenya seeming to choose Galadriel)

What it takes away from the story: a plot hole imo of Sauron having the skill to make rings of power all by himself this early in the story & not using that to make the other rings alone.. still doesn't invalidate any of Galadriel & Halbrand dynamics so Your ship can still sail

What it gives Galadriel: a correct opinion about the nature of the rings that all her people eventually come to agree with

What it takes away from Galadriel: a mistake imo which is either not correctly judging the nature of the rings or knowing and still risking the future of all middle earth by insisting every time that the rings are safe

You see how wanting the rings to Not Be engagment rings doesn't do any harm to your ship and it's dynamics & neither does it reduce Sauron's talents as a Smith.. he is still a Maia who worked under Aulë and helped in Creation Of The World & who will go on to make the One.

But constantly saying that the rings are Sauron's engagement rings erases the whole point of Celebrimbor as a character.. not to mention his talents that Sauron needed to make the other rings and Celebrimbor's input that also helps him in making the One.

And understandaby Celebrimbor fans don't like this interpretation that reduces & erases him. But nobody would have had problems if again you guys weren't framing your headcanon essays as absolute feminist truths & calling other takes Bad Takes.

3. Nenya healing Adar

If you read it as Nenya giving him redemption by fixing his evilness

What it adds to the story: a plot hole with this magic healing ability that can fix everything and everyone who falls to darkness and evil, making way for sauron to find quick redemption

What it takes away from the story: a realistic worldview where individual choices have impact not only on the person themselves but also to everyone around them, an understanding of how healing works irl

What it gives Galadriel: a mistake for not giving away a ring of power to Sauron to heal him

What it takes away from Galadriel: her wisdom that one cannot heal another person out of their evil or mistakes (heal yourself)

If you read it as Adar gets redemption because of choosing to see his mistakes & trying to correct them after being healed by Nenya out of the torture and dark magic that turned him into uruk

What it adds to the story: Adar's commendable ability to see his huge mistakes and accept them infront of his enemy & try to fix them

What it takes away the story: the ability of the rings to heal Sauron

because in this reading it requires acceptance to look your mistakes in the eye & choice to do better that redeems a person which Sauron in show gets many chances to do but doesn't repeatedly. This still doesn't invalidate Sauron & Galadriel's dynamics so Your ship can still sail

What it gives Galadriel: an example that if someone who was under the shadow for so long as Adar can come to the light by choosing to accept their mistakes then she too despite her tryst with darkness can still come to the light by acceptance if she chooses

What it takes away from Galadriel: the burden of healing her abuser

Again reading Adar's redemption as his own achievement doesn't affect your ship at all & neither does it prevent Sauron from ever getting redeemed. It just gives him a truer to life way to get redeemed someday; even makes his future redemption more compelling imo.

But when you make the redemption all about Nenya it takes away the little good this already tragic & tortured character of Adar has. Add that to the usual insensitive framing & you'll get Me in response, an Adar fan fuming.

4. Adar's villian arc

If you read him as solely a villain

What it adds to the story: another villian

What it takes away from the story: Sauron's narrative foil and all the complexity that has been put into his character from his introduction in S1

What it gives Galadriel: a mistake imo it makes Galadriel's pity & understanding of the suffering of Adar & Uruk a mistake if he is only a villain & does everything wrong in all lights.

What it takes away from Galadriel: an example of what becomes of people who accept darkness despite love still existing in their heart and also an example of how good intentions and horrible actions can go hand in hand

If you read him as a morally grey character who had a villain's arc in one light but an anti-hero's arc in another light

What it adds to the story: a complex character that creates an emotional connection with some people who might see flashes of their persecution in the Uruk, a character who grounds the story in real world by having elements of freedom fighters & rebels choosing wrong paths in desperation, a great portrayal of the Cycle of Abuse creating abusers out of some victims

What it takes away from the story: a similar or less complex villian than Sauron but doesn't affect the dynamics of Sauron & Galadriel so Your ship can still sail

Again see how having Adar as not fullly a villain doesn't affect even a bit of your ship. It also doesn't affect Sauron and his existence as a compelling villian with a repentance arc & some good intention behind all the deception. You can still read good in Sauron's actions, Adar doesn't need to be a villain to make Sauron's goodness more visible.

But your insistence that he can only be read as a villain & people who see him as anything else are supporting genocide can irk Adar fans because the scenes showing his good traits exist & were placed conciously & weren't a collective hallucination.

5. Gay Adar being forced into ships with women

This one I'll just simply say.. The people who insist that he's gay are also the ones I see that say his relationship with Sauron was only one sided where Adar was in love but Sauron wasn't.

Here are my problems with this reading:

Adar is queercoded.. the showrunners' interview from SDCC mentions LGBTQIA+ & we all assume it was about him right..

Nowhere is it specificed that he's gay.. why can't he be Bisexual? Pansexual? Or something else or just Queer who doesn't want to be labelled by anything?

Why is this one specific way of reading him so important to you by invalidating everyone else's reading when nothing is concrete canon about this anyway?

Why can't all kinds of people from LGBTQIA+ explore their sexuality via Adar just like you all like to explore female sexuality & dark fantasies etc via Galadriel & Sauron? Because it isn't wrong in anyway I agree, I used to ship them too in S1. And most people you call names every day will agree with that too!

All this was the long way of saying, if you'll be mean to people, their reading of the story, their fav characters and their author.. some will retaliate in the same way.

It's not because they hate your ship or women or women's sexuality or villain ships or gays etc etc etc it's just simply about the respect you give out into the world & the ability to differentiate between fans of the show who like other things than you and Haters of the show.

[ballowvalence]

finished jentry chau last night and i have a lot of thoughts. SPOILERS AHEAD.

the good (broad strokes because there's so much to like in general!):

production quality is off the charts: fantastic animation, beautiful fight scenes, lovely character and world design, music perfectly complements the whole vibe. great style as well!

satisfying narrative arc: no cliffhangers, we get an A to B story line with character growth and progress. jentry ends the series as emotionally more mature than she starts.

interesting characters and engaging exchange and dialogue between them that mostly felt believable and realistic for teens this day and age.

the bad (my gripe in a nutshell):

the showrunners' decided to favor making the show work to what they'd prefer over cohesive character choices. (like they were trying to manipulate jentry's character around hitting plot points, instead of vice versa.)

jentry's forgiveness isn't consistent for her character.

the showrunners decided that the narrative would be more dramatic when/if she didn't forgive others.

gugu lied to her all her life about SO many things. we're given her reasoning, which we're meant to understand and relate to (she didn't want jentry to hate her/her parents), and because jentry loves gugu, she forgives her. i do not forgive gugu! she lied to jentry for 16 years about EVERYTHING.

this ties into how moonie is still alive as well. gugu knew! she could've EASILY have tracked her down. so she CHOSE to never try and reunite them. and MOONIE knew she was jentry's mother. how could you do that to your daughter? and jentry forgives moonie because she loves the POTENTIAL of her mother. what the fuck! i do not forgive moonie! she CHOSE not to be part of her life.

then we come to the only other person who begged for forgiveness for their secrets hurting her.

kit. he lied about who he was and his intentions. however, out of the him, gugu, and moonie, kit is the only one who does not intentionally obscure jentry's ability to figure out his secret, as in jentry is not forced to act for him to confess his truth. with gugu's secrets, she had to work to uncover them, and with moonie, jentry had to work to find her.

he is the only one who comes clean to her after putting his life in danger to save hers, and there's no way he doesn't know how fragile his painted skin is. he KNOWINGLY went to save her from the fire and risked his identity being blown because she was that important to him. (i remind you his death words started with "everything i did was for me." LIKE SAVING HER THEN??? THAT WAS FOR YOU???)

and how does jentry react? poorly, yes, because she hates lies (because of gugu).

but even after that, kit is never actually forgiven. in fact, jentry uses him, and then abandons him when she achieves her goal. it felt so drastically out of whack for her character that i wondered what was happening. then he is ostracized by her, and she rejects even his friendship and acts cold to him. she cuts him off.

it really doesn't make sense for her to not even want to be his friend. she bonded with him during the doppelganger experience. they WERE friends then. then she says she wants to be normal and pursues michael even when he admits to her HE isn't normal. so that's not it either.

only the narrative is what forces her not to forgive him because the showrunners need to hit the plot points of him betraying her and him needing to sacrifice himself later. (which i would argue his sacrifice really doesn't make sense at all. if you watch that scene when kit dies in her place, WHY would he even pretend to be her? if jentry had just worn the robes instead, she would've been able to defend herself as quickly she donned them as is shown after kit-jentry is attacked. it was a needless sacrifice!)

gugu is forgiven in this same episode for her lies. why can jentry forgive gugu and not kit (prior to the betrayal)? it just doesn't fit for her character.

jentry then goes on to immediately forgive moonie for never getting into contact with her. moonie ALSO lied to her her entire life. but somehow this is forgiveable now because it works with the narrative and the plot points.

anyway. that's my biggest gripe with the show.

instead of building the narrative around jentry's character, the show built a narrative and manipulated jentry's character to make it work.

also...

the mogai-human-form design was weirdly sexist?

when possessing mr. cheng, the mogai-cheng form is ugly and malformed and disproportionate. he is not conventionally appealing or attractive. he is not the same size or shape as cheng appeared. he is wearing clothes.

when posessing jentry, the mogai-jentry form is curvaceous and slim and appealing to look at. this form is conventionally attractive. she is the same size and shape as jentry appeared. she is not wearing clothes.

all of these are choices the showrunners made. they could've made mogai-jentry much more unappealing, but they didn't. for some reason, keeping her "attractive/cool" was the choice over what the design could mean. they did make her look dangerous, i guess?

[thieves-never-say-die]

Weekend in Paris Watch-Along

A summary of everything talked about in the Weekend in Paris watch-along, video here, with Dean Devlin, John Rogers, Aldis Hodge, Christian Kane, and interviewer Brittany Catallo.

Under the cut because it is long.

First question: how do you feel the latest season of Leverage: Redemption is relevant to audiences?

John: [sarcastic outrage] How is a show about evil oligarchs relevant!? I can’t-!

Everyone laughed, and Dean said Leverage was always a show that predicts the future, like The Simpsons, and he specifically mentioned The Mile High Job when Hardison hacks the plane remotely, and The Jailhouse Job which was about the prison industrial complex. At the time of writing those episodes, neither of those things had been done/talked about yet, but soon after the episodes aired both of those things became major news stories. 

Dean said the difference this season was that Leverage was actually meeting the current moment, but in the show the good guys win.

John interjected that the good guys can still win! The only time anything is guaranteed is if you give up and accept it will just happen, otherwise the future is always unwritten.

Aldis: So basically Leverage is laying out the blueprint? We just need someone out there to follow it?

John: No! Do not send John Rogers to a foreign prison because you were inspired by something on Leverage!

Q: What can viewers expect this season coming off of last season?

Dean talked about how this season they got to see a whole new side of some of the characters, and get to explore some interesting arcs. He noted that we will be going deep into Parker’s character this season.

John said it’s an advantage of having a show that’s gone on this long, we’ve gone on a journey with them, and the actors give some really nice character work.

John then explained that they chose Paris because they were shooting most of their exterior shots in Belgrade, which is where The Librarians: The Next Chapter is shot. 

The intro shot of the team moving throughout the hallway was all one shot that didn't cut, and the cast managed to get it in two takes because they practiced a lot. Everyone had a great time filming it, even if it was stressful knowing one small mess-up would make everybody start over.

When they wrote the scene they didn't have the set yet, and after John turned in the script to director Marc Roskin, Marc called John and said "this is impossible", to which John responded "yes! And that’s what makes it cool!”

It was a lot of exposition dump, but John knows Aldis is the best at it and could do it, which allowed them to use Hardison as the anchor character for that scene.

They talked about how everyone had to race around the set, specifically mentioning Beth scrambling to the top to hang through the vent. 

The set itself wasn't as big as it looks, it was a big T that they digitally extended and shot well.

John: The room was like “so it’s Scooby Doo” and I was very hurt, I was like “No, it’s a challenging heist sequence built around an impossible bit of geometry!” And the writer’s room was like “No, it's the Scooby Doo door bit, we all know what you’re doing.”

John pointed out how these characters are now all peers, in comparison to the original show, which means Hardison can give Sophie crap about her relationships in a loving way.

He also pointed out how everyone else is distracted by personal stuff, but Eliot is the only one who stays on mission.

The shot of the team running out of the auction house and into the van was a reference to The Long Goodbye Job.

John: You know, I don’t think many fans will catch it, but we’re basically giving them a horrible flashback to the most traumatic moment of their life.

Aldis: You got the wrong audience for that on this show, because they watch everything.

Dean loved that they went from this long, beautiful one-er to the best action scene they've ever shot.

They were able to film the whole car chase downtown in the center of Belgrade.

The idea of the episode opening in the middle of a busted con was something John wanted to do since the original run of the show but never got to do.

Christian came up with the bit of Eliot recognizing and lamenting the waste of expensive flour.

Christian and John talked for a bit about shooting the fight scenes, and Christian said fight scenes are like a dance, it's less about the violence as it is about working with your scene partners.

John learned from Jackie Chan to shoot fights along a fight line, which helps avoid having the fights all be close up shots of punches. He also makes sure to write Eliot fight scenes with fluidity in mind, because Eliot fights to control the space, not to win.

Aldis shot his line in the van ("how was your first day at school?") in New Orleans six months after Christian shot his reaction outside the van in Belgrade. 

When coming up with the bad guys for the episode, one of the Amazon execs said "you may have made them too evil," to which John replied "there's no such thing."

Q: What is the significance of Eliot getting seriously injured in this? What was the motivation behind that?

John wanted to make sure there was adequate build to Hardison's speech later, and talked about how Eliot can take a beating and keep working, and has taken a beating for ten years, but sometimes it's taken for granted. Eliot can handle business while injured, but it's a reminder that he's not bulletproof, and it gives the audience a visual and physical reminder of it for the end of the episode.

Hardison and Parker's waiter uniforms reminded Dean of the Season 1 finale of getting the Davids.

Aldis mentioned he gets nostalgia when thinking about where they started, how far they've all come since then, they had a good time and he misses that time.

John said that the bad guy of the week (Arizona Mike) was an example of the banality of evil. He's a generally likeable, smiley guy who has no idea he's a monster.

Sophie's alias Violet Cesario is a character from 12th Night, which is a clue that Sophie made the alias because she takes names from Shakespeare.

They needed the team to make fun of Harry's beard to explain why it was shaved by the end of the episode. John enjoyed writing Sophie giving him crap for it without even seeing it.

Q: Where did the evil water stealing hot sauce salesman come from?

John said that people always focus on Big Crime when writing, but there's a million mid-level evil dudes out there. The bad guy was based on a certain type of farming in California (which John won't name so he doesn't get sued), but no one ever goes directly into water, they get into it through other means. People have an idea in their head of secret office buildings in Vienna and backroom deals, but there's a lot of mid-level millionaires making people miserable for their own money.

Q: How much of yourself is in these characters, and how much have the characters influenced you?

Aldis said that he's part of Hardison more than Hardison is part of him. Since they've been filming Leverage for so long it allowed them to influence their characters more, especially when Redemption started they got to help plan the maturation of their characters and where they would be ten years later. His performance of his characters is made more natural when he puts some of himself in it, and being able to help build the characters helps with that as well.

Dean pointed out that Aldis filmed several TV shows and movies at the same time as Redemption, and mentioned how he would fly out on his days off just to be in a few scenes. Aldis' other commitments were much darker and more tense. Dean asked Aldis what it was like to come and be this happy character for a week?

Aldis: It was like a vacation.

Aldis continued and said that he enjoys his other work, but being able to come back and work on Leverage is a gift. Leverage is just fun, and gives him nostalgia for where they started, and it gives a strange sense of "we're really doing this?" Because he rarely gets to play a character with so much history, and it's a very different experience at this point in his career, but it's a joy to do.

In response to the earlier question, Christian said that a lot of himself has bled into Eliot, and a lot of Eliot has bled into him. Christian helped create Eliot, and Eliot lives inside Christian's body in a way no other character does. Christian didn't know it when he started, but Eliot is the character he came to Hollywood to play. He wanted a role that had action and heart, and said that the bad guy is usually more fun to play, which makes Eliot great because he is both the good and the bad guy. He doesn't feel like he goes to work, it feels like he's showing up to have fun.

John talked about how on a lot of shows, actors just show up to read the lines given to them and that's it, but on Leverage it's more like a jazz band, and the actors know how to play an instrument that the writers don't know. They give the actors the score but encourage them to make it their own. Over the years the writers have learned how to write to the actor's rhythms as well, and all of that helps sell the characters. This has also kept the characters from getting stagnant after 15 years because they're not just characters that live in the writer's heads, they come from the actors as well which lets them grow and breathe.

Christian can’t imagine what it was like to read the Leverage pilot for the first time, because when he thinks about it now he pictures the actors as their characters. They've worked together so long that at this point he knows how Aldis will improv a line.

The line "the law just sucks, now get in the hole" might be one of the darkest lines on the show, according to John.

Q: What was it like to work in New Orleans? How does that setting affect how the show is now?

Dean said they went to New Orleans because he'd had a great experience filming one of the Librarian movies there, and it made sense for them. The only original art form ever made in the US is jazz music, and it came from New Orleans. It was important to put the show in a place that is culturally so important to America, but is also such a huge place for art and corruption and bad guys and people who fight for good guys.

John knew Aldis and Beth would be able to sell the Eyes Wide Shut bit, and could make it creepy and weird, so he just wrote the bare bones script and let them have fun with it. Beth specifically did it as "this is Parker's idea of sexy", and he loved that because he never could've come up with it.

Dean asked Aldis what it was like to film the conversation between Parker and Hardison about wanting to do something different.

Aldis said it was a really important scene, because they've had so many years together and understand each other so well, they're very aware of the weight of what they'll miss together. It juxtaposes well with the previous scene where they worked together really well. They know they make each other better, but what does it mean for Hardison if his heart isn't in it anymore?

John mentioned that the technique of backtracking money laundering accounts is real.

John then talked about how they wanted to write Parker and Hardison, because they didn't want to do the typical shocked significant other plot line. When you love characters and love people you don't want anything to change, but life is change and the world changes all the time. Change is natural and it isn't bad, but it's okay to recognize that some people need to get off the train at different stops, but you still love them and are still with them. It was the same conversation they were having with the fans through the show. You don't have to abandon each other or stop loving each other just because people are doing different things.

Dean interjected to mention how much he likes how Christian played Eliot not wanting to be in this house, with these people, doing this con, all while injured.

John's favorite version of Eliot is when he's annoyed. They missed it earlier but the exchange between Sophie and Eliot ("Oh, sorry, I was focused on the terrorists!") was one of his favorites.

John: Eliot tough and scary is fine, but my favorite thing is when Eliot is annoyed with everybody.

Aldis: Everybody tunes in to watch him get annoyed.

Christian added that he loves acting annoyed, and Aldis is his favorite scene partner for that.

For Harry's scene at the fence with the tanker, everything past the fence was CGI, it was really just an abandoned golf course behind the building.

Q: How do you see comedy and its role in Leverage?

John said a big part of it was because he and Chris Downey started in sitcoms, and they didn't know any rules about "don't mix comedy with drama", so they decided why not have the corny flashbacks and the cool drama. Back when the show started it was hard to get the execs on board, they didn't really understand the tone, but they got it eventually. All the actors can hit jokes, and if you have actors that can hit jokes, give your actors jokes!

Dean said when they filmed the pilot he didn't know how funny Christian could be until the IT guy, and didn't know how good at improv Aldis was until they filmed.

John loved Harry's side-con here. It's not important, it's just a B-plot, he's having fun, we don't have time or that, it’s whatever you want it to be!

Christian's favorite scenario on set was when Eliot and Hardison were dressed up as cops (The Morning After Job), everything in the car and with the call they responded to was so much fun.

John said that episode was a Chris Downey episode, he wanted the comedy of them working together and told John to make the plot work.

John gave credit to Gina, how she masterminded the hell out of the episode, we get to see how terrifying Sophie can be. 

The fight with Eliot, Hardison, and the giant security guard was John's vision. He wanted the Cap/Bucky/Iron Man fight from Civil War, and finally got to write that sequence. Two guys fighting in sync, as a pair, who have known each other for 15 years, and know their rhythms. 

Christian said it's hard to coordinate a fight like that, but he and Aldis have worked together so long that they figured it out.

Dean loved that Hardison really went all in on the Vulcan neck pinch thing.

John: Hardison believes the Vulcan neck thing is gonna work, and Parker believes it's gonna work, and that’s what love is.

The interviewer asked a question about how Christian does his stunts, and he confirmed he does all his own fights, and as many stunts as John and Dean allow him to.

Brittany: Legally?

John: No! No, no, past that!

Dean hates that Christian does his own stunt. He'll tell Christian not to do something, and then get dailies of Christian doing that thing.

John: And then I get footage of Aldis and Beth running on top of trains! (The Big Bang Job)

Christian told a story of when they worked on The Office Job and were filming the scene on the roof. They had crash pads down, and after they were done filming Christian just jumped onto it without telling anybody. A few seconds later, Aldis followed.

John facepalmed at that story.

Q: Did you work with a lot of the same crew for this season as past Leverage Redemption season?

Dean said they have a lot of the same crew and appreciate it because it’s a great crew.

John said the key to making a good show is hiring smart people who are good at their job, and then getting the hell out of their way. Dean very rarely harshes anyone's insane idea and lets everyone work collaboratively.

John also noted that Breanna and Becky (Harry's daughter) are now best friends. If they had more episodes the two would've had a whole adventure together.

It was also fun to write Hardison giving Breanna the big brother talk, while Parker's in the background like "tell her about the bomb!" and Hardison shushes her because he knows if Nana finds out he told Breanna about a bomb he'd be in trouble.

They shot the end of episode 1, the end of episode 3, and the last scene of the season finale all within a day and a half of each other because they wanted Aldis to be there.

Dean said he loves the pretzels bit, and John talked about how it started as a one-off thing that was just there, but then it became a thing in the show and in the fandom and now it's a whole callback and shorthand for their relationship.

John talked about the ending scene, and how he didn't want Hardison to just bail, he needed to have an honest conversation with Parker. 

It was Gina's idea for Sophie to be dating again, and it comes up several times throughout the season.

John liked the way Christian and Aldis played their conversation, of two guys who care about each other and aren't very good at emotions but still have to talk about emotional things.

John repeated that Eliot isn't looking for redemption, he knows he's damned and he's accepted it. It's hard for Eliot to accept or process that other people see him differently.

Christian chimed in that Eliot's redemption is getting other people to a place where they can be redeemed. They can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and even if he's stuck in the tunnel forever as long as everyone else gets out then he doesn't need to.

Q: Is that something we’re going to see more of this season? Exploring everyone finding their own version of redemption?

Christian said his role is more in the background, he's talking people off the ledge, he's giving Hardison advice, he's talking to Sophie, making sure Harry doesn't screw up. Eliot is especially protective of Harry because he's not as far along as the others, and is really trying to give him a leg up out of the darkness.

Dean talked about how it was very important to them that they never betrayed the truth of Parker and Hardison's relationship.

John mentioned that the actors found that relationship. He hates writing backstory and tends to slow-play relationships, because once you get into a relationship it becomes a soap opera and you start screwing with the relationship in order to get stories, so that's why they waited until season 5 of the first run to get Parker and Hardison together. They don't want to mess with their relationship now to get stories, and it was interesting to write about a mature relationship because everyone knows they're not going to break up. He knows you can't screw with such a central relationship for cheap drama.

John: They're in this complicated, emotional relationship, with them and Eliot—however you want to define it—and they are going to die together.

That was the end of the episode! Dean reminded everyone that a new episode will drop every Thursday for the next 7 weeks, and thanked the fandom for supporting it, as the fans are the only reason they got to come back.

Q: Any hint for what we can expect this season?

Christian said there are some great character arcs coming up. He especially loved the second episode.

Dean pointed out how they've made over 100 episodes of Leverage now, and the thing that most surprised him this season is that they're still doing things they've never done before, he's shocked they can still find new places to go, and says that some episodes this season are completely wild.

John said all the writers loved being back with these characters, and we're going to see some unexpected but not unbelievable turns from the characters as they expose their vulnerable side. We'll explore a bit more for the newer characters, and Breanna especially is going to be great.

[bluewoolf]

Do you have a method or strategy for outlining the entirety of CHNT/any story?

I’m bangin at writing scripts but big picture? Oof ouch me brain.

I can offer you a quick crash course on story structure.

If you're writing a story with a purpose and an ending, reference the three act structure:

Particularly, a beat sheet, which breaks down the components of the three act structure into notable, key happenings, which all work together to drive the epicenter of your narrative.

There's no single interpretation of something as fundamental as the three act structure, but the Hollywood standard for storytelling references the following sheet:

ACT ONE

1. INCITING INCIDENT - This incident starts the whole journey. It's the spark that lights the fire. In other words, it must be a critical occurrence. If this thing does not happen, the rest of the story doesn't happen.

2. HOOK - The beat which "hooks" the audience and makes them want to see more. Often it is a preview of the theme, the character's flaw, or the coming Plot Point One.

3. PLOT POINT ONE - The event which defines the main challenge the protagonist must deal with through the second act and leading to the climax. Whatever you set up in Plot Point One must be paid off in the Climax.

ACT TWO

4. CONFRONTATIONS/RISING CONFLICT/COMPLICATIONS - As we come to understand the characters, we also learn more about the challenges and raise more questions. The protagonist struggles against initial conflicts/challenges, which should be consistently escalating.

5. MIDPOINT - The stakes are raised in an unexpected way, leading to a whole new set of conflicts and deeper challenges for the protagonist. Sometimes it will be the moment in which the protagonist is challenged to fully commit to fighting back/pursuing their goal. (I like to think of this point as "the point of no return" in which everything the audience knows about the story is changed in some way.)

6. RISING CONFLICT TO PLOT POINT TWO - Conflict continues to rise, leading to Plot Point Two - sometimes referred to as the "all is lost" moment. Enemies are winning, tragedies happen, values are tested. The situation seems hopeless. This is the lowest moment for your protagonist.

ACT THREE

7. CLIMAX - The protagonist's final face-off with the conflict. The challenge and stakes that were set up in Plot Point One are confronted for the last time.

8. PAYOFF - The direct result of the Climax. The protagonist succeeds or fails. Sometimes it's more complicated.

9. RESOLUTION - How our characters are left at the end of the story, and a suggestion of what the future holds for them..or not if they're dead. In certain stories, the resolution may leave the audience with a parting question.

You also need to study the structure of a character arc, as it will inform your beats. A dynamic character meant to change will have the following characteristics:

GOAL - Motivation. What they want, whether it be something they're working towards, or something they already have and need to hold onto. A goal must always be actionable. FLAW - This is the thing holding your character back, and is either directly causing, relating, or contributing to the conflict. NEED - What your character requires to grow and change. Think of the “need” as the “solution” to the flaw. In most cases, the result here is often a theme in the story.

There's an abundance of reading you can do on this theory and over a million different interpretations, so it can be overwhelming what to listen to.

❗ I recommend Save the Cat as a starting point.

No matter how you approach it, you cannot skip out on beat structure. It's the thing that tethers your story to itself instead of getting lost in concepts, that centers your theme and engrosses the audience. Ignoring it or trying to subvert it for the sake of subversion will kneecap your story and have the audience going :

[lenodrysalad]

"Eddie said he's straight! Buck said Eddie was straight! Buck said he's not in love with his best friend! They shut down Buddie in the show it isn't happening ya'll are delusional! Queerbait! Queerbait! Blah blah blah"

I feel like I'm going insane. I'm sure we're all tired of people shouting "media literacy" every five seconds, but like... Yeah, develop some media literacy, please.

I'm saying this as someone who doesn't usually like romance, despite being subjected to it in basically every piece of media. As someone who doesn't generally look for love stories. As someone who loved Buddie but didn't consider any serious possibility of it becoming canon before season 7/8, who refused to believe Buddie was truly happening until I couldn't deny it anymore: this episode is loud.

Please understand how narrative arcs work. How character arcs work. How character development works. How serial broadcast television works. Understand how writing works. Consider context; take the whole episode, the whole season, and the whole series into account instead of treating things like they exist in isolation.

I'm too tired to go through the step-by-step details of the episode to prove why these, "they said it on screen, therefore..." takes are shortsighted and ignorant; plenty of people have done that already.

But that episode, even if we do take it in isolation, is textbook. Do people really take everything characters say at face value? Do people not watch other character's reactions? Listen to what else is being said? Watch what is being shown? Consider the implications? Themes? Narrative devices?

Consider that maybe, just maybe, characters can be unreliable narrators, or believe something to be true only for that belief to change later. These things don't happen in one episode. There's such a thing as set-up, foreshadowing, the starting point of a plot. 911 is a serial drama, therefore it is going to have A) long-form story and character arcs, and B) drama.

Characters are not going to move in straight lines, or talk in therapy speak, or solve every problem in an hour. They are not always going to be right, or self-aware, or truthful, or rational. Direct dialogue does not equate to honest dialogue.

Also, saying, "well in real life, people do this, I do that, their feelings would be this, yadda yadda yadda" means nothing. Your experiences are not universal, and more importantly, this is a work of fiction. Realism is whatever the story says it is; it's going to do whatever creates the most dramatic, interesting, developmentally beneficial, or emotionally satisfying story. Whether you like that story or not is irrelevant to the fact that stories are not going to cater to all your expectations or real-world experiences.

To people pointing to Tim or the actor's interviews as "proof" they're shutting down Buddie: again, please understand how broadcast television works. They are not going to tell us everything that's going to happen before it happens. They are going to play the neutral zone, the "wait and see," the "will they/won't they." They are going to lie. That is television production 101. You can compare what they've said in the past with canon and list all the contradictions, misdirection, and twists you didn't see coming because they didn't spoil it for you. Watch the show. That is the canon.

They're also not catering to fandom--people they already know are devoted to the show, familiar with Buddie, and consistently tuning in. They're introducing the idea of Buddie to the general audience, people who likely haven't considered the possibility before. The GA has to see that Buddie is an option, so the show needs to manifest it as if it's a brand new concept. This episode pulled the pin on that grenade in a very obvious way; the idea that Buck could be in love with Eddie and that Eddie could not be straight has been planted. The next seed will be Eddie's feelings. Now the show needs to water it and let it grow.

One last thing. Been seeing a fair amount of hand-wringing and condescension over people interpreting this episode differently. As if this is some sort of "gotcha" for bad writing, baiting, or people being stupid. Listen, genuine complaints about this show's writing aside, different interpretations or inferences are completely normal. This isn't unique. That is how people interact with stories, through personal biases, experiences, emotions, and expectations. That isn't inherently a bad thing. It's totally fine to have your own views; media is all about interpretation.

However, it is also true that just because you have an interpretation, that doesn't make it true. Not all interpretations are equal in their validity, evidence, or warrants. The show has an intention, it has a story in mind. If you don't see it, sure, that could be a failure of the writing, but it could also very well be a failure of your analysis, especially when the show hasn't finished telling the story. Looking at one thing in isolation and forming your whole conclusion based around that makes for poor critique.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see who's right.

[pruneunfair]

Rating female leads in manhwa.

Navier

6/10, I absolutely hate her writting and has devolved into a mary sue who only reacts to everything around her while her mass of supporters never shut up about great she is. Her synopsis claiming her as someone who loves all her subjects gets contradicted when its shown she doesnt really care about the slaves.

BUT in season 1 she wasn't bad, I liked her resolve and it was when she actually cared for her people, I feel like if we got to see a clear backstory beyond "she wasn't allowed outside when she studied to be empress" I would understand her total apathy more.

Ariande

7/10, I adore villains, especially villainous protagonists and at first I liked the idea she wouldn't be any better than her family but still had a soft spot for Arabella, she loses a few points because it turns out she's excused for killing people before in the name of "love" and is viewed as someone who can do no wrong.

Adelaide

10/10, she's like Navier but better, she has more noticeable flaws and while she is a kick ass warrior during the tower arcs she still is human and can't always take it alone without consequences, she acknowledges Diane's struggles and makes an effort not to be her enemy and is proof that you dont need to make FL overpowered gods to be strong women. A beautifully made FL in a underrated story

Robellia

1/10, She doesn't divorce her husband despite the title literally being "I will divorce my tyrant husband." But that's more of a problem in most other manhwa. She's too much of a perfect epic goddess for me and most of all she does the whole "buying all the slaves but giving them a home." to make her look even better, what is with manhwa and inserting slavery for no other reason other than to make the FL look better?

Arianna

0/10, there is nothing good about her. Other than being a mary sue and a personality that only revolves around the latest sexy man, she legit forces another guy to join her haram by threatening diplomatic war on his kingdom and bodyshames her fiance but all of a sudden wants him more than ever when he loses weight, it took a random chick being inserted with a 🍇ist persona to make her look "better."

Yerenica

6/10, in any other story, this girl would've been despised by the fandom for being a homewreaker/pick me. She gives me so much second hand embarrassment but she's not terrible, I actually really like her design too. Not a fan of the kidnapper-hostage relationship she and the ML have though.

Pereshati

10/10, the best one here. She feels so much more human than the others on this list, she's got flaws, a relationship with the ML Therdeo that has both realistic progression, blunders, but overall healthy love, she also has relationships outside of her husband which I really love, I actually get scared for her when shes in danger instead of the usual "oh great, heres the typical kidnapping trope", a great motherly FL

Hestia

5/10 I will be easy on her since I just started reading my derelict favorite but I've only heard bad things about it through spoilers so I don't have much hope, also girl, please acknowledge that just because your favorite character did it for love doesn't mean he's absolved for murdering 2 people, thank you

Edith

9/10, my 3rd favorite on this list. You do not know how happy I was when instead of immediately viewing Rhyse as a rival to defeat, she was actually nice to her and the chapters of them were so sweet, she even acknowledges that it isn't anyone's fault for acting out but the author who is pulling the strings.

Layla

8/10, I feel so bad for this poor girl. For some reason I noticed on reddit and tiktok that she's getting hate for not standing up to herself or just not being the usual "girlboss" protagonist, did it not occur that she cant do much to a duke!? Layla deserves so much better and she needs to be far away from Matthias, I don't care if it's "dark romance" he is torturing her for his own pleasure.