#wfa anon how are you

[cyanide-sippy-cup]

On a happier note at least Wayne family adventures is doing well (not trying to minimise things just trying to lighten the mood sorry if this seems callous)

That it is! I said this about the previous chapter, but this really feels like what the season was trying to build up to. The dialogue is amazing, with such bangers as "you're my strength", "I don't want to lose you", "I'm so proud of you". It's everything I predicted the plot would be and I love it.

But. The big thing. I can't keep it in the tags anymore. The art gets WACK. Absolutely no hate to the artist or artists but every time a new episode gets released it takes me OUTTT. I just feel like there's a certain level comicbook art is usually expected to be and when it doesn't meet the requirements it's always really funny. Again nothing but respect to the artist, they're working under Webtoon and DC. That's a recipe for disaster. And it is a (free) comic that releases a new episode every week so like totally fair to mess up. In like a physical or normally published comic it would be unacceptable but those usually get months. Here I'm honestly impressed at how often they do manage to nail the cool shots. Cause when they're cooking, they're cooking (like the final shot of this episode fucks).

[august-anon]

Idk if you're open to some of the lesser known batkids but I do have some hcs, some more than others but I do love all my bastard children.

Duke is def super ticklish on his ribs and armpits. He does this thing where he will slide down whatever surface he is leaning against, usually his attackers chest but also most chairs he's sitting in and walls as well. Cannot stand asmr and has headbutted multiple people on accident for whispering in his ear. He apologises the first time it happens, but if it happens again that's on them not him. They knew the risks, not to mention they are vigilantes.

I know in my heart of hearts that Duke would be so giggly if someone squeezed his shoulders, Dick enjoys giving him dramatic pep talks complete with shoulder massages just to see him go turtle mode. His lower back is really weak to pokes and you can chase him around in circles doing this.

Teasing can make him very bashful even though he groans and tells you to shut up already, his face will be burning and he will not be able to stop squirming away. However the flip side of this is if the person teasing him says anything hypocritical it will lose its effect bc he is incapable of not being a smartass and calling them out on it. (Like Tim laughing at him for squealing) Which always immediately backfires on him but he can't help himself. The people need to know.

-❤️

YES!!! I am 100% into headcanons from the lesser known batkids!!! I don't feel confident in writing for them myself, but i do adore them and LOVE hearing about them thank you!!

These Duke headcanons are ADORABLE omg thank you so much. Ribs and armpits?? sliding down surfaces?? excellent, i love that SO much. he just goes boneless thats so cute! Headbutting whispering folks?? kdjfhdf of course, and 100% their fault if he's warned them before.

THE SHOULDER SQUEEZING shdfjkshfsdjf dude thats so adorable. heart anon, your mind.... Dick would 100% do that, he's a certified big brother, its in his contract to be a menace and that's such an easy way to do it skdjfhsf

AND THE TEASING dkjfhdshf i keep saying this over and over but its true, that's so cute and also so funny sdkjfhsd he's like "dude you got no room to stand here, i heard you squealing from three floors away yesterday when Jason got you" and tim is just like "okay fine you little shit"

THE PEOPLE DID IN FACT NEED TO KNOW. I am the people. And I needed to know all of this lol, thank you so much. And the rest of the people who will see this ALSO needed to know, we all need more Duke Thomas around these parts!! I gotta get working on reading all these comics so i can write some Duke Thomas tfics lol

[casscainmainly]

"My long-held belief that Duke and Luke should not get along" <- could you please elaborate on this? I'm fond of both and I collect your thoughts and analyses like they're rare trading cards so I'm ready to be all 👀🫳🍿

First of all anon this might be my favourite ask ever, I've been dying to write my thoughts on these two so THANK YOU. Secondly my belief that Duke + Luke wouldn't get along actually stemmed from WFA, I was super annoyed with Luke giving Duke the pep talk in ep 76 because they have no relationship!!! Then I started thinking harder and realised they are a really interesting pair. In case anyone hasn't noticed I'm fond of giving Duke relationships where he's annoyed with the other person so 😭 this is very on brand.

The thing about Duke + Luke is they are, on the surface, similar - they are Black members of the Batfam who operate mostly independently, 'separate' from a legacy as Signal/Batwing (though I will deconstruct this later), devoted to their family, have a strong sense of justice, and view crime-fighting as a business. But I believe at their cores they are fundamental opposites - and it's this hidden opposition that makes me think they wouldn't vibe with each other. I'm focusing on We Are Robin Duke and Batwing Luke, though I will also refer to Duke's Signal days + Luke in Detective Comics.

(This is going to be a long post because this is lowkey my Luke + Duke thesis 😭)

Introductions

Duke and Luke were both introduced in the New 52, actually in the same year (2013!). What's really cool about their intros is that you already see how different they are. We first meet Duke in Zero Year, where he's fishing in the subway and then attacked by a gang; we then get the famous scene of him solving crosswords by Bruce's unconscious body. When Bruce tells Duke and his family to leave, Duke refuses, telling him they can't leave Duke's grandma and that all it takes is one riddle to free the city from Riddler's influence.

By contrast, we first meet Luke in the spotlight as he's wrestling for MMA in Batwing #19. He's been wrestling to get Batman's attention, refusing all job offers from his dad to do so (and thus creating some juicy father-son tension). In Batwing #20, we see he has two degrees from MIT, lives in a fancy apartment, and is really tech-oriented; his cover story for Batwing is that he's travelling the world.

Already, there are a couple things that already firmly separate them:

Class: Duke is from the Narrows whereas Luke is rich

Connection to Batman: Duke stumbled across Batman and gained his attention quite organically, whereas Luke was actively begging for Batman to notice him

Agency: Duke's actions were motivated by the extreme circumstances of Zero Year and a desire to help rooted in his material environment, whereas Luke's is a more internal, abstract wish to help (pointing to their class differences again)

Gotham: Duke refuses to leave his city, whereas Luke immediately packs up and travels the world

Intelligence: Both of them are fiercely intelligent, but in different ways - Duke loves puzzles and riddles whereas Luke is more inclined towards engineering and technology

And these differences only grow as they get older!!

Maturity

Duke is 16 (in my head, canonically it's vague but he's between Damian and Tim so 14-17) and Luke is 23. This age gap is honestly not that big, but I think it would feel big to both of them. And what's worse is that Duke is quite mature, but Luke is said to be immature:

Batwing #23

I don't think Luke is actually immature, but it's a recurring theme that other characters perceive him as unwilling to grow up; and I genuinely do think Batwing, for him, is kind of an adventure at first. Now compare this to Duke, whose circumstances disallowed him being childish. He had to grow up because his parents weren't around anymore, and he became quite jaded as a result. Even after he's mellowed out in his Signal days, I still don't think he could tolerate working with someone who comes off as light-hearted as Luke does. Duke would be annoyed by how he perceives Luke doesn't take things seriously, and Luke in turn would be annoyed when Duke inevitably criticises him for it.

Arc

Following on from above, their arcs are actually in total opposite directions. We first meet Duke alone and disillusioned with everything, putting his whole being into finding his parents. Then, through We Are Robin and Robin War, he begins to understand what Robin means as a symbol and finds community, leading to his brighter personality in Signal comics. Luke, however, begins very light-hearted (as seen above), with a huge respect for Batman and the Bat symbol. Once his family starts being torn apart, though, he becomes increasingly aggressive, more isolated, and in a much darker place. Compare a narration box from the last issues of both:

Batwing #34 / We Are Robin #12

These encapsulate their journeys: Duke learns that he doesn't have to act alone, whereas Luke struggles with accepting all that has happened since he put on his suit. Being a vigilante improves Duke's life, whereas it essentially ruins Luke's. This is why I don't think that WFA ep made sense!!! They have nothing in common in terms of the vigilante experience, and I think they would frustrate each other because they have such different conceptions of what the vigilante life is!!!!!!!

Batman and Robin

Okay so I said that Luke + Duke aren't legacies; even though Batwing is one, Luke doesn't actually talk to David Zavimbe, and his Batwing is not spiritually connected to David's really. But Luke and Duke both do take inspiration from other Batfam members - Batman and Robin, respectively.

Batwing #25 / Batman (2011) #45

Luke is the rare Batfam member whose motivations don't spring from tragedy - he's inspired one night when Batman saves him and he jumps in to help. Luke's love for Batman is wrapped up in Bruce himself, as a person rather than a symbol; he genuinely thinks Batman is awesome and wants to help people under his name.

Duke is the exact opposite - Robin is not a person for him but a symbol, and a symbol that can be spread to many people. It's also intimately tied with Duke's relationship to Gotham, because Batman is "on the gargoyle" and Robin is "on the street". Importantly, Duke says to Darryl that "I know you work for him, but you're us". Working for a singular person is in opposition to this 'us' that Duke believes in.

Luke, though not exactly an employee, literally wanted to work for Batman, Inc. Batwing is in many ways a 'job', an alternative to the corporate life Lucius wanted for him. Duke would, I think, take huge problems with Luke's philosophy as a whole. Separated from Gotham, attached to Batman as a person rather than as a symbol, Duke just literally wouldn't understand where Luke is coming from. And Luke, too, doesn't seem to respect Robin as a mantle (this is after someone mistakes him for Batman in Batwing #34):

I think Luke views Robin as firmly a kids' role, a sidekick for Batman; that would annoy the STUFFING out of Duke. I actually could write a whole post in itself about this incident and Luke being mistaken for Batman but that's for another day. The point is they are attached to the Batman and Robin legacies which in themselves are already vastly different, but Duke is kind of anti-Batman and Luke is a little anti-Robin, so they would not mix.

Family

One thing they do have in common is a deep love for family. But even then, their familial relationships are extremely different: Duke has a wonderful relationship with his parents, bolstered by the fact he lost them for a while, whereas Luke has a contentious relationship with his. Duke in some ways idealises his mom and dad, while Luke is sharply aware of his parents' shortcomings.

Batwing #20

Now this wouldn't be an issue normally, but Duke canonically has, like, a problem with judging other people's families. It's a really consistent (and somewhat hilarious) trait of his:

We Are Robin #5 / We Are Robin #5 / Gotham Nights #8

The Dre comment ("you're a mob kid?") is particularly telling. Because Duke has such a good relationship with his parents, and because he's shaped so much by them, I think he sees children as reflections of their parents/families. It's hard for him to see someone completely divorced from their family - you even see this a bit in Batman & The Outsiders, where although Duke understood Cass' disagreements with Shiva, I don't think he really got the nuances of what that felt like for Cass.

Luke's relationship with his father is complex and contentious. They love each other, but Lucius' desires for Luke just don't match what Luke wants, and Luke can't tell him about Batwing either so it's a constant back-and-forth. This secrecy is another thing Duke wouldn't get - I've made posts before about Duke and honesty, and it's a huge value of his. It's significant that as soon as his mom is healed she finds out about Signal; dishonesty is not really a factor in Duke's life, whereas it is Luke's central conflict. Luke's entire thing with his dad and his alter ego is something Duke has never had to deal with, and I think Duke would just be like 'tell him?? and make up??' and Luke would sigh so loud and hard.

Personality and Authority

But all of that aside, I just think their personalities wouldn't mix! Duke is a jaded teenager whose overt honesty and resistance to authority often give off a bad first impression (see his first encounters with Black Lightning, We Are Robin, Damian, even the Bruce train scene...). People do warm up to Duke quick, and once you love him you adore him, but there's a hurdle to becoming close to him that you have to leap first.

Luke, on the other hand, is affable and immediately likable. He's popular in school (as Russell mentions in #25), has experienced college social life, and is open and friendly. I think in an initial meeting Luke would find Duke off-putting and rude, while Duke would find Luke shallow and annoying. Luke is an extremely confident person, as shown in both Batwing and Detective Comics (particularly the latter). I think Duke would take this confidence as him being stuck-up, especially because Luke is rich.

Their class differences also separate their reactions to authority. Luke doesn't take authority at face value - he disobeys Bruce basically as much as Duke does. However, given his upbringing he isn't that anti-authority. Compare Luke and Duke's attitudes to cops:

Batwing #25 / We Are Robin #2

The Luke narration box is after the cops shoot him and accidentally make him kill his best friend 😭😭😭 like if that had happened to Duke his inner voice would NOT say that. This is another example of how their different upbringings and personalities cause them to have DRASTICALLY different outlooks on things. Batwing also sides with Batwoman when she kills Clayface in Detective Comics, something I think Duke would not do (he would've sided with Cass) so their ideologies often put them on opposite sides.

FINALLY, and least importantly, Luke is not a reader. This is a recurring thing and it's so funny:

Batwing #21

That's Tam telling Luke to "read a book". I think this exact interaction would happen with Duke taking the place of Tam, where he'd just be super annoyed that Luke doesn't enjoy literature. Honestly I think Duke might remind Luke of Tam in a lot of ways, since Duke is Bruce's golden child just like Tam is Lucius'. And that would annoy Luke, like he can't escape annoying younger siblings even as Batwing?? Bruce liking Duke more than Luke, even when Duke doesn't even care for Bruce's approval, would send Luke's blood pressure through the ROOF.

Conclusion

Um anyway I'm so so sorry this was so long but that's why I think Luke and Duke wouldn't get along!! It's mostly that they have such different outlooks on literally everything and their personalities clash. Anyway, if anyone bothered to read til the end here's your reward!! A little edit of what SHOULD have happened in WFA ep 76:

[frownyalfred]

Hi. I'm not a canon purist and enjoy some fanon content very much, but I do think people in the fandom should at least familiarize themselves with the canon content and source material. It's easier to break the "rules" so to speak and experiment with canon when you know what that actually is. I've noticed a lot of fans that are only familiar with fanon criticise content that doesn't line up with what they believe to be canon but isn't. The Red Hood for example. I've seen writers who portray him as the violent criminal he is in much of the canon be completely decimated by Jason fans who only know fanon and the retconned version of Red Hood and completely deny canon even exists and refuse to even glance at the comics. Transformative works are important and playing in the sandbox is for everyone but fandom literally cannot exist without canon. Canon is important and people can do whatever they want with it but they should respect it enough to at least look at it.

Hi anon, I'm going to hold your hand as I say this, and I will say it as gently as I can: This is still a form of canon purism.

We can absolutely agree that readers shouldn't berate or abuse writers for how they choose to portray characters in fic, whether that's a more canon-faithful characterization or a popular fanon version. If readers don't like how a character is portrayed, we should encourage them to hit the back button instead.

I want to draw your attention to some of the words you used in your ask above: "should" "respect" "decimated" etc. Those are some strong words to describe how you think people need to behave, in order to exist in fandom. Of course, there is no fandom without canon source material -- I'm not denying that. But with such a wide and varied canon, the DC fandom has examples of the Red Hood you mention above, AND the "retconned" version you also reference. Both are canon, as in actually, officially, canon. WFA is canon, and that Red Hood looks very different from the Red Hood you describe.

Now, I think your issue is that you enjoy a certain version of canon, and you're frustrated that the fandom doesn't also, as trends ebb and flow, enjoy that canon as much as you do. Again, I want to acknowledge that just because a certain version is popular, it doesn't give folks the right to berate authors for writing a different version. But again, I don't think that's what we're really talking about here. From your ask's tone, I think you're suggesting that people should, in order to participate in fandom, read that older canon, that different version, or as you say, "glance at it" before enjoying or writing the fanon version.

Guess what? They actually, really, really, don't have to. It sounds like you have some issues with judging your fellow fandom members who don't read what you do or reference certain canon. But the magic of this fandom is, you can enter it at any point. We're a big pool, and if someone's entry point is the Lego Batman movie and that's it, that's still valid.

Fandom stems from canon, yes, but I almost never hear people talk about movies, or web comics, or other media when they talk about "required reading." It's always a comic. I really wish people would reflect on that before suggesting it as the one true path to being a fan.

The other thing I don't see asks like these reference ever is the reality that sometimes a fandom outstrips its canon material, and that that's an eventuality in some spaces. Fanon interpretations become popular, and people write about those specific characterizations or scenarios. They ebb and flow, like I mentioned, and some are more canon-faithful than others. Some completely reject canon, and again -- it's still fandom. It doesn't make it better or worse than a more canon-faithful fic. It's just different.

I had a couple asks about this topic a few weeks ago, and I'm assuming you haven't read those or you likely wouldn't have sent me this ask. But in them, I discuss how sometimes we need to suck it up and be unhappy that canon-faithful fics aren't as popular in a fandom at a specific time, and stop punishing fellow fans for writing and enjoying those fics. And we really need to stop shitting on them publicly on Tumblr.

Because often, what you're really saying is that you wish more people would write more canon-faithful fics, and stop writing ones about fanon topics you don't enjoy or think are accurate. And to that, I again say, there is nothing you can or should do to change that behavior from others. If you want to read it, write it, enjoy it, etc, do it yourself. Build the comic-faithful community here, write fics and promote challenges, create a discord channel and discuss your "required reading" there.

We are all writing and reading fanfiction at the end of the day. It is a great equalizer in many ways. My silly Lego Batman fic is just as valid as a canon-faithful rewrite of a certain Batman issue. One is not better than the other, or more deserving of respect. You will never get me to admit otherwise on this blog.

tl;dr: people should absolutely not berate authors who choose to write canon-faithful characterizations. however, there are layers of judgement and disdain many DC comics canon-faithful authors/readers have for their fellow fans that I think we need to examine critically in order to coexist respectfully.

[gilverrwrites]

Hellooo, I hope ur doing well ;) Can I request Bruce Wayne/Batman for the headcanon meme ? I know this is a lot and I apologise in advance lol, but I’m genuinely so interested about your takes on Bruce 🫶🏼 Hi anon, I hope you don't mind but I'm posting this as a text post so I can add a read more to it. Thank you so much for the ask, I'm honored that you're curious my HCs. Again thank you, and have a super rest of your day! 💖💖💖

• what religion are they? how do they practice? Canonically, I believe he was raised catholic, and identifies as an atheist because if there was an all knowing God, why would he let Gotham exist as it is?

But I’ve always had trouble rationalising religion in comics. I’m also an atheist but if I’d met/knew Gods literally walked the Earth (Zeus for example) I would be having a crisis of faith. Pretty sure Superman once met the Christian God? Bruce clearly has a stronger sense of belief than I.  

So, practice wise; Growing up would be church on Sundays, grace before dinner. Nightly prayers. Once his parents had passed, while Bruce would be questioning his faith, I don’t think Alfred would have enforced such things if Bruce didn’t want to continue practicing.

• what holidays do they decorate for? For the longest time he didn’t decorate for any. Alfred decorated at least for Christmas every year, but Bruce stopped noticing once he became Batman.

It wasn’t until a young Dick mentioned he’d never been trick or treating that Bruce started to put the effort in. That year Dick had the best Robin Hood costume, Bruce dressed as Little John, and Alfred as Friar Tuck. Not only did Dick get to go trick or treating, but Bruce and Alfred decked out the front yard for any local kids too.

When thanksgiving rolled around, Alfred was delighted that Bruce seemed to care about it again, having gone out to buy new centre pieces. And that year was the first year since he was child that Bruce helped put up the Christmas decorations.

Every year he tried to one up the last, however, his presence on the day dwindles until Dick goes off to college and Bruce’s motivation to care about such frivolous things while Gotham needs him is gone. But this exact process repeats with every adopted child until there’s always somebody home, be they young and living with him or old and visiting.

• what clubs / sports were they involved in as a child / teenager When he dropped out of school, that also meant quitting any clubs and sports. The lack of team sports is probably a contributing factor to his inability to communicate well with others outside of strategy. However, prior to that he was a Cub Scout, as well as tennis and fencing (fuckin’ Rich kids).

Post homeschool (much like in the Gotham TV show) Alfred ensured Bruce was still doing outdoorsy activities; camping, hiking, learning survival skills. As well as Bruce insisting on multiple forms of combat training. He continued fencing.

• do they take any medications? No. That’s not to say he shouldn’t be on medication, he just doesn’t. Hard to speak to a professional when you can only tell them half of your life.

He does however take daily vitamins along with his protein, creatine etc. If he’s not taking supplements, Alfred is sneaking them into his food. He eats nothing but protein, gotta make sure he’s getting his nutrients somewhere.

• do they watch the olympics? do they prefer summer or winter Rarely has the time. But if and when he does sit down to watch I’d say his preferred watches are; tennis, fencing, boxing, and judo. Sports that mean something to him. For that reason he also prefers the summer games over winter.

• what are they like when they're sick? Nightmare. Alfred is a saint for putting up with it, honestly. That WFA comic where he’s trying desperately to get back to work whilest injured is 100% accurate to my imaginings. Even when he’s too sick to move, he’s still thinking up ways he can sneak out of bed, wondering if he should build a batlaptop for these sorts of occasions.

Crime is never sick; therefore Batman can’t be sick!

• what do they usually buy in a gift shop? It varies from place to place but typically:

Fridge magnet and/or some other small kitchen accessories for Alfred.

Stationary for Damian.

Preferably a cola drink, but if not a snack for Tim. He’s specifically looking for decorative packaging that can be saved. [See this Tim HC]

Pin badges for Babs.

Postcards for Dick.

An oversized hoodie for Cass. Black only.

An oversized hoodie for Steph. Tacky only.

Keying for Jason.

Puzzles or decorative decks of playing cards. (Duke is into tabletop card games, Bruce thinks they’re the same thing)

A coffee mug for himself.

• what color was their childhood bedroom? Blue, and it’s still blue but a lot of the furniture has changed. Can’t sleep in a kids bed forever.

Most of the new furniture is sleek, modern looking and black. He likes the gothic style, but this is where he often brings his dates/hook up, and the minimalist style suits his image better.

The old bed, desk, toy box etc haven’t been thrown out or anything, they’ve been used by most of his family as they’ve grown up and are currently in Damian’s room. Everyone who has used the desk (B included) has carved their their initials on the underside of it.

• what does a typical day off work look like for them? A day off? What’s that? Seriously, even if he’s not being Batman, he’s being Brucie, Mr Wayne, Matches, or Dad or even just working out.

On the rare, rare, rare occasions he’s not doing any of those things, the first thing he does is sleep in. He probably needs to sleep for 5 days straight, but he’ll only sleep until 10/11ish.

By now he’s missed breakfast (which is served from 8-9), so he’s latching onto the first person to pick up the phone and taking them out for brunch. By now he’s already itching to get back in the cave, and to thwart this he forces himself to stay in the city; go to a museum, walk in that park, visit a friend, go shopping for (another) new watch, anything but return home.

Will surprise Damian by picking him up from school. Damian, as he gets older externally complains and cringes more and more, but he loves it.

When they get home, he becomes a nuisance until dinner, offering help to everyone with anything to distract himself. It’s appreciated but nobody needs help with homework or housework.

After dinner is the home stretch, and the easiest part. He gathers as many people as he can in the family room for films or games, and by the time they’re done it’s bedtime.

He’s in the batcave at midnight.

• how many pillows do they sleep with? One. He has at least ten in the bed, every night she shifts all but his favourite to the floor, and every morning Alfred makes the bed and puts them all back and arranges them perfectly.

• what's their least favorite chore? He rarely does chores, but Alfred must have time off. The first time he took a week off since Bruce became Batman was the first time he realised the impracticality of having a CAVE! So much sweeping and dusting and everything smells damp, he has no idea how Alfred keeps it liveable because after 2 days Bruce was overwhelmed and ready to risk it all by moving everything upstairs.

• how often do they do their laundry? He doesn’t. If Alfred isn’t available, he’s been specifically instructed to take anything that needs cleaning to the dry cleaners. Not because he’s incapable of doing laundry, he’s not completely inept at doing normal things. He just thinks he can do it better. Which often results in the washer-dryer being ‘upgraded’ in ways that nobody ever needs, and Alfred hates it.

• what is their favorite wine / liquor? Prefers wine to spirits, specifically red. Or better yet, champagne.

When he does drink spirits he leans towards brandy, the same kind that his mother would drink.

• what is their favorite scent of candle? Citrusy, fresh scents. Something strong that pierced the musty smell of the Batcave or the damp of the city. Sage & citrus, lemon lime, maybe even mint cucumber.

• what's their guilty pleasure tv show? Again, he rarely watches TV. But I think at least once while on ordered bed rest he ‘accidentally’ watched every season of the Kardashian’s. He 'hated' every second.

He’s assigned all of his children a Kardashian and keeps up to date with every episode, just as a person who hates the show would do. He will never tell anyone else.

Tim knows. Bruce knows that Tim knows but they’ve never discussed it. Tim has never seen a single episode, but he’s seen memes, and will quote them in front of people to make Bruce sweat.

• have they ever done volunteer work? Bruce is a known philanthropist. The Wayne Foundation is a non-profit which primary cause is funding charities, hospitals, medical research, urban renewal, etc.

He puts a lot of money into The Wayne Hospital (or whatever its called dependant on the media). He also funds a lot of youth centres, and rehabilitation centres.

But as for actual hands-on charity work, no. It anything it would cause more harm than good.

Could you imagine being homeless, starving, at your lowest, and when you arrive there’s fucking media vans and photographers everywhere, cataloguing your worst? And then inside, the herald prince of the city that has screwed you over, billionaire Brucie Wayne is serving you ladles of dirt-cheap slop? You'd be mortified, pissed.

• do they listen to music or watch tv more often? Definitely music. TV is time consuming; music is easier to multi-task. I don't think he listens to much of anything other than classical and meditative music. Maybe some kind of classic rock workout playlist on Spotify that Babs occasionally hacks into and keeps adding back-to-back plays of Black Betty. Bruce gets so into his workouts that he doesn't notice until one day he realises he's done a 2-hour cardio session and Black Betty has been playing the entire time.

• do they watch the superbowl even if they aren't into football? Not into football and barely has the time. However, when it's football season, the men (and some women) in his social circles go crazy for it, so he keeps up with the matches through news reports and tries to watch the final, Batman missions permitting.

(Psst. I'm from the UK and know nothing about American football. I presume the Superbowl is preceded by a series of tournament matches like euro football (soccer) is?)

• do they collect anything? Children

Watches, and cars. Later in life, he's fixed on these things a lot more, because he's been collecting them for so long. But they started purely as a way to fit in with his high society peers. To make him appear more normal.

Imagine that scene in American Psycho where they're comparing busisness cards, but it's Gotham’s richest competing over who has the latest watch, the nicest vintage car etc. Now that he knows what he likes he's more focused in on those; he like vintage European watches and American cars.

I also love the idea that Dick once bought him an ugly novelty tie (completely earnestly) on like his second Christmas at the Manor, and that quickly became a tradition. Every year he gets a new tie, the most hideous the kids can find, and the following year, Bruce wears it during Christmas dinner.

• what hill are they willing to die on? Mint is the superior dessert flavour, milkshakes, ice cream, Oreos, coffee syrups. Dark chocolate and mint = peak.

[robinvomit]

I've been debating on whether writing this as an anon but know what, i don't care because i need to say it

as a tim and red robin lover (although I love him as just robin too), it's already a struggle to find much content about him, and if it does, it revolves more around the other batfam than him, or it's severely mischaracterised. Like, I love the wfa, it's fun, the drawing it's cute and i like the interactions, but it has done a great damage to the fandom and affected their perception of canon too badly.

I admit I haven't read all the comics and red robin issues, so I don't as much as other people, but I adore the 90s Tim's personality, and I think it's ten times more interesting than whatever malnourished traumatised clone the fanon has made. don't take me wrong, I have fun with fanon tim too (depending on how its written) as this shy, socially awkward nerd hacker that just wants to prove himself, but 90s Tim is just SUPERIOR. And it bothers me so much that most of the works with tim feature the fanon version of him instead of this awesome sarcastic, perfectionist, morally grey bastard. So what if he's mean? So what if he's a little shit with an ego? That only makes him even hotter in my eyes and cooler to read.

So you don't know how happy I was when I found your page and I saw your writing, showing Tim exactly how he is, and saying you love his 90s era too. Really, I love how you write him, and I wish more people appreciated him like this too. He's the goat. There's not a socially awkward bone in his body. If he's bad with people, it's because he wants to be.

I just wanted to tell you this because I notice a rise of people shitting on other authors, you included, when they don't write tim like the fanon version. Please, keep sticking to canon. Not just with tim, but all of them. I like the fandom, but i'm tired of seeing the people twisting and depriving the characters of all what makes them interesting and compelling in narratives to simplify them so much.

I want my tim drake to be mean, a bit arrogant, a strategist and planning to kill everyone that breathes too loud around him with a resting bitch face. that's the man i fell in love with, thank you very much

See, I haven't touched wfa — not for any particular reason other than it just doesn't.. suit my taste? From what I've seen, it is super cute but it's also a completely separate story and not canon to the main storyline. But hey, if people enjoy it, then they enjoy it. It was made for people for enjoy.

Contrary to seemingly popular belief, I have absolutely no issue with that. Anons around here seem to think I've got some secret vendetta against people who enjoy other things and I have no idea where that came from. I don't even know where this came from, I've never said anything against anyone for their character thoughts. I'm just honest about what I like and don't like. Granted, I know opinions on social media aren't allowed most of the time.

I can't even say I've read every comic that involves him — that is a shit ton of reading, lol I've read what I've recommended, on top of several appearances + I own the entire Red Robin set. I just .. I don't know. I'm not saying his modern version is bad by any means, it's just.. different.

I like my 90s Tim who will break someone's kneecap and smile. The one who hurts people's feelings, even if 40% of the time he doesn't even realize it. The Tim that isn't socially awkward by any means, emotionally repressed, has trust issues out of the ass, and a mouth that's nearly gotten him killed over a dozen times. I hate to say it, but they kind of ripped Tim's ego, pride and independence away from him. Not entirely but enough to water him down. I appreciate that he was pretty honest on the fact he barely liked people. I love that we all refer to him as a bastard— it makes me giggle. 90s Tim is the only character people drop that for lol Though, even with 90s Tim, I hold onto the asd aspect cause.. bitch didn't know tones or queues for shit unless he was focusing on work.

I get shit on if I breathe crooked lol because I'm very opinionated and quite frankly, if it hurts your feelings that I like something different.. you should probably find a different author to follow. Not even being an asshole. I'm just not going to sugarcoat for people. But also — thank you, this whole thing means a lot to me and I'm always happy to see people appreciating our arrogant cryptid.

I will always do my best to stick as close to canon as I possible can 🖤 but also, please, the rbf yes. Ugh. Ily.

This is a mess but I'm also mobile and have the attention span of a stick bug, so if I missed something----

[celaenaeiln]

Hello, love. I just wanted to say that I get on tumblr once in a blue moon and i came here from Chapter 10 of your react fic on ao3. And I love you??? I'm BINGING your Dick Grayson posts and I love them. Even if you didn't have screenshot proof, i would believe you 100%, but i LOVE that you put screenshots and pictures and references. Genuinely, the Best. I need to comment on the chapter with all of thoughts and squealing but it's like 3am for me XD, so I'll have to do it later. Thank you so much!!

(And I'm super tired and I haven't looked through everything of yours but i was wondering how exactly you felt about WFA and Dickie in that, particularly the most recent episodes wirh him and Bruce. Only if you'd like, i dont mind)

Link to fic

OMG BESTIE!!!! HI!!!!

GIRLIE YOU CAN LITERALLY LEAVE A DOT AND YOU'D HAVE ME KICKING AND SCREAMING ILYSM!!!! <333!!!

IM ALWAYS SUPER SUPER SUUUUUPPPPEEERRRRR HAPPY TO SEE YOU!!!!

HMU LATER I HAVE SO MUCH TO SCREAM WITH YOU ABOUT!!! omg LOVEEEE talking to you, you always get me hyped!!!

babe, i'll talk about everything with you, with utter joy! Omg sorry for the late response, you and anon especially, I genuinely just had no idea how I felt about wfa.

I thought about this for a long time but it wasn't until I got a third post on it that I realized what i thought about it and why.

I, personally, kinda hate it. But let me also start off by saying that because I hate it, I don't read it. I've seen some of it on tumblr and it's cute but also the thing is it's not really accurate and I'm alllll about not standing for mischaracterization just because there's already so much of it present in the batfam fandom, a serialization of this just makes the incorrect assumptions worse.

See, the thing about wfa is that it's the batfam set in a very idealized world. And because of how the perfect world is created, some of the characters personalities and actions have been altered. So their trauma and beliefs are kinda bashed away, but it's implied that their histories still follow canon comics.

And that's where it pisses me off. If wfa was pure crack and humor, I would love the heck out of it, but the irritating thing is it tries to stay accurate to the characterizations. But because it's set in such a perfect world, the character's personalities are distorted in some aspects but left alone in others.

So what's the problem with this? It causes the webtoon to be both correct in their characterizations and absolutely as far wrong as possible. If the webtoon was completely wrong with the portrayal of the characters, it would be easy to enjoy or critique the content and easy to at least be aware of what's true and what's not. But it's not like that. It's 50% absolutely correct and 50% horribly, couldn't-be-more wrong which just increases the amount of mischaracterizations that going on about the characters. If there's a problem it lasts for liek two seconds and they immediately fix it without exploring the character's thought process in any way that can be taken seriously. All their problems are treated like scratching at the newly healed skin of a wound. It's useless but a temporarily worthwhile distraction.

Of the pages I've seen, I also don't like it because while it's light hearted, it's not my style of humor. Everyone is literally just a big manchild. It's nice in a objective kind of way and it's entertaining in that it comes up with a lot of fantasy scenarios that are new but the character's personalities are bland and all kind of the same. They're all happy, sarcastic, and pouty.

If this was the masked singer style and wfa characters were drawn with no identifying features - just a blank circle for arms and some rectangles for body parts but had dialogue, you literally wouldn't be able to tell them apart.

So in summary I dislike it because while the super idealized world is nice, the character's personalities are altered only sometimes to make them act in a way they never would in canon while at the same time, picking and choosing what they like from canon relationships which causes the horrible mischaracterization and bland personalities. It's manchild humor and lame jokes. But it's very creative and I can appreciate it for that. So I dislike but I don't hate it. It just sort of irritates me.

[kindlingkeen]

Hi! I absolutely adore your Asymmetrical Warfare series on AO3 (it’s got me back on a competent Jason Todd kick, which, there’s honestly too little of so if you have any recs pls fire away)!

I did have a curiosity that I hope you don’t mind answering though: are there specific reason why you’re not a Tim fan? And does that extend to other members of the batfam as well?

Hi, anon! I’m so glad you’re enjoying Asymmetrical Warfare (competent Jason ftw!). 🙌

Re: Tim. I should probably be more conscientious with my wording around Tim. A lot of what I say in ao3 comments or here tends toward facetious, and tone doesn’t really come across well online.

Which is not to say there aren’t things about Tim that bug me. For example—canon Tim, there are more than few instances of him being downright shitty to Jay’s memory. Case in point, from Batman #456, Tim imagines Jason’s ghost giving him a pep talk about becoming a hero and Jason says he killed himself because he didn’t listen to Batman.

Ah, no sir, the responsible party was the psychopathic clown with a crowbar and some explosives, not the 15 year old trying to save his newly discovered biological mother.

But is this really Tim the character’s fault? Or is it dc’s fault for creating a narrative that brutally murdered a child and then spent decades trashing his memory and blatantly victim-blaming him for it?

It’s really more fanon depictions of Tim that I have a problem with. In particular, the tendency to project Jason’s trauma onto Tim. Trying to spin the white boy who came from an affluent two-parent household as somehow more neglected than the kid whose parents are dead/incarcerated and was literally homeless is just ??? Jason’s backstory touches on so many important societal issues (the gutting of the social safety net, the industrial prison complex, the opioid epidemic, the criminalization of poverty, the stigmatization of sex work), and this approach sweeps all of that under the rug.

It also really gets my goat how many fics masquerade as being about Jason, but are actually just a vehicle for Tim time. These stories tend to dramatize Tim’s character, whether it’s woobie, touch-starved little Timmy who needs constant reassurance and protection, or smarter than everyone ever, can not be out thought or out fought, is actually a CEO while he should be in high school Tim. My problem with this type of narrative is usually two-fold. 1) It dumbs down Jason’s characterization (which should be so rich and complex) to ridiculously oversimplified motivations and actions. And 2) it turns Tim into a caricature of himself, instead of a compelling character with a balance of strengths and weaknesses and a normal amount of teenaged self-esteem.

It probably doesn’t sound like it from this blog post, but I do really try hard in life not to yuck other people’s yum. Just because I don’t care for how Tim is portrayed, it doesn’t make it inherently bad or wrong. And all of this aside, I’ve read plenty of fics where I enjoyed Tim just fine. For example, I love how @bonerot19 writes Tim in their Something in the Static series. And Tim and Jay’s dynamic in WFA is often amusing.

So, yeah, bottom line. Tim is … fine. I’m just not a fan, per se. I try to at least write him fairly in Asymmetrical Warfare, with both the realistic shortcoming of a teenage boy and the awesomeness of Robin. He’s never going to get the same amount of page time as the rest of the crew is, though.

Re: the rest of the batfam. I mean, I often want to bop Bruce on the nose. Especially canon Bruce who beats up his kids and is completely unrepentant about it. But, honestly, that’s not my Bruce. My Bruce, who I love and love to hate in turn, would never do that. (Compartmentalization, the key to happy fic reading and writing.)

I love Babs and Dick. I want to be besties with Steph, but in reality she’s way too cool for me. Duke and Cass I’m less familiar with, but have no problems with. Damian is growing on me, and if dc would just give up the game and admit that Dami and Jay met in the LoA and are actually super special murder brothers at heart, that would be great. Selina is a queen and someday I will write that Selina + Jay and Dami meet in the LoA fic I’ve been dreaming about.

Re: competent Jason fic recs. One of my favorites is butcherbird, fly away home by e_va @e-vasong. Bonus rec, the same author put out a new fic recently, another way to make it to ten, and it not only features competent Jason, it’s Jason & Tim, and I like Tim in it.

Thanks so much for the ask, anon! Really great questions. Kudos if you made it through the whole post. 💙

[ectonurites]

do you have any batfam fic recs that aren't fanon or are mostly true to canon? i started out as wfa fan and i used to really enjoy the more fanony fics before i started reading comics and realised how much characters were changed. so if you have any recs that stay true to canon, i'd love to read them!!

oh anon honestly I haven’t touched batfic in a long time [mainly because i just get so picky/i can only take so much heavily fanon-y stuff before it just stops being enjoyable for me personally] so I really am not the best person to give recs like this </3

if anyone following me has recs though pleaze feel free to reply/add onto this!!

[august-anon]

Here's a few random HC that I’ve thought of, some of which were inspired by some of your fics:

1) Not all of the bat kids native language is English. Damian's native language and Arabic while Dicks is Romanian, and so on. If tickled enough, they switch from English to their native language. Bruce, the man who knows multiple languages, will also switch to their respective language. More than once, Damian and Dick have called Bruce dad in their native language (Bruce sees it as an honor and it melts his heart every time he hears it)

2) More than once, Bruce has turned a post-patrol injury check into a tickle attack, especially if said bat kid did something reckless or stupid on patrol. After making sure the children aren’t truly injured, he will tickle them and pretend that it is all part of the injury check. 

3) We have good parent Bruce, but don’t forget about good parent/grandfather Alfred. Alfred loves son and grandchildren. He’s very proper and British, but he is known to provide pokes and scribbles to make a point. The kids or Bruce do something reckless on patrol? A couple prods and scribbles to the ribs during an injury check to make sure nothing is injured. Did one of the residents curse? A poke to the side. Alfred loves his son and grandchildren, but he has an image to maintain.

4) In Dicks early Robin days, Bruce and Dick had an encounter with Poison Ivy where Dick ends briefly gets tickled by a plant (this is based on episode 74 of the Wayne Family Adventure webtoon). After this, Bruce expanded training to include blocking out sensations, including ticklishness. This training is typically done teaching the bat kids methods to block out tickling or hide it, and he helps his kids practice the skill by tickling them. For him, this is a win-win situation. He has another excuse to tickle his children and he teaches them a valuable skill. (No matter how much training they do though, Bruce is always able to get them to break and start laughing. He is their dad and knows how to take them apart).

-Turtle anon

HEADCANONS FROM TURTLE THANK YOU TURTLE!

1) I LOVE the language switching trope in tickle fics it's so cute sdjkfsdhf and all the Bats speak so many languages that it's not even a hindrance, they can just switch with them. And the kids calling Bruce dad in their native language while being tickled 😭😭Turtle youre gonna make me Cry lol

2) YES YES YES i LOVE the injury-check-turned-tickle-attack bit. You did something stupid and reckless, let me make sure youre safe. Okay, youre safe and unharmed -- now let's make it clear why you should Never do that again. But yes of course i agree, he 100% pretends its still part of the injury check, no matter how much the batkids Know its not sdjfhdf

3) YEAH I honestly find it so hard to work Alfred into a tickle fic because i LOVE good father/grandfather Alfred (or, at least an Alfred who did the very best he could/can while also trying to balance his position and propriety, and everyone knows that and loves him for it) but i am still trying to figure out where i would find that balance Between grandfather-Alfred and butler-Alfred lol. He ABSOLUTELY also uses injury checks as an excuse for this though. Plus, Alfred is sneaky and all-knowing, he could totally pull a quick tickle and no one would know it was him, they'd blame a sibling or smth lol

4) I THINK ABOUT THAT MOMENT IN WFA ALL THE TIME ksjdfhjksfhd it was so freaking cute like omg. It often makes me go "what if Ivy had like, tickle pollen. Or if i jumped on the cuddle-pollen bandwagon and somehow worked tickling into there. I need some kind of pollen" (i love cuddle pollen fics though -- someday i will write a tickle fic with cuddle pollen i swear, i just dont have any fully formed ideas for one yet lol) BUT YES -- Bruce is trained to block out sensation, which includes tickling, but clearly he made an oversight with skipping it for Robin. Guess it's time for some more training! And they'll do it as many times as it takes to make it stick :) (and yes i agree -- Bruce holds all the secrets and even with this training he puts them through, Bruce still can break them near-instantly and uses that to endlessly tease them. mayhaps even threatens more sensation-blocking training, if theyre so bad at holding in those ticklish reactions still, hm?)

THANK YOU TURTLE this are so so cute omg thank you for sharing

[batmanshole]

If you had free reins over a new batman cartoon adaptation, how would you go about it?

oh god. oh god. anon yuo are about to enter an unskippable cutscene. i love you.

SMILEEESSSS okay so :-) it would be like. multiple seasons. okay? like we're going LONG HAUL on this bitch. it would follow my personal canon of events (mostly post-crisis pre-flashpoint w some modifications and inclusion of a tiny bit of rebirth stuff) and i can't explain how i'd like the art to look but i can picture it.

i'd want it to be very... balanced. like i'd want parts to be dark, but there could still be opportunity for fun. i'd want a lot of focus on motive, on why, on emotions. and maybe not even explicitly you know!! like just. character study stuff.

i want it to show off complicated relationships, where people hurt each other and no one is right or wrong and there's anger where there is love too. and that's not just like the "bat family" in here. i want to explore bruce and harvey/two face. i want to explore bruce and harley and healing from trauma. i want the joker to only be relevant for a few seasons before they start paying attention to other villains.

i think the series begins with bruce in his early days as batman. he's already become batman and has been going at it for a while (we don't need another origin story. there's too fucking many.)

and while i do want to focus a lot on the robins, i don't want it in a WFA-style thing.

i don't know how to explain it but they wouldn't be living all together under one big roof. things happen. people fight. people are outsiders. they try to kill eachother. you know? not everyone is happy together.

other misc. things i wanna include:

barbara stays in her wheelchair 4 ever and is dykey with babs

jason is never fully reintegrated in the family. and if he has to be, it's after a LOT of time and work, and would only come at the end of the series, so there's no awkward jump from villain to Beloved Family Member like there sometimes is in some comics.

running gag of tim drake being lame as fuck. also robin branded skateboard that he falls off of

spoiler rolerskates. enough said. also steph has curly hair

duke has better hair than the fucking. bullshit they give him in 90% of the comics.

damian and talia being visibly brown. NO GREEN EYES!!!!!!!! and they get to interact with their culture in a normal way and people are consulted on this.

bruce is jewish. he has a bat-themed menorah. this is never explicitly mentioned but it is present in the background.

cass' disability is portrayed well. she doesn't speak normally or use sign language but her own way of communicating.

clark is there sometimes!!! they have a thing going on but it never becomes official, not because i don't want them to, but because bruce is shit at communication.

bette cameos. idk how she'd fit in with the timeline i just want her there.

duke and jason being assholes to eachother but like in a way where you're like oh ueah these guys are brothers.

dick and damian being best brothers/father and son ever

DISCOWING CANON!!!! OR ELSE!!!!!!!!! and mulletwing too.

steph takes over as nightwing at least once.

talia written better than 99% of comics have ever written her.

the joker makes a comment about liberals at least once but even the other villains seem sick of his shit

riddler pronoun pin

[wingdingery]

Trick or treat!!!

Hello very secret anon ;)

For you, another trip to the WIP icebox! This is from a verse I mentally call “WFA vibes but they’re all poly and having complicated relations” (or BPA – Bat Polycule Adventures for short, and yes I do have a diagram lol).

__________

“Listen, Dick—you and Cass,” Steph says, gesturing between the two of them with a flick of her finger. She’s sitting on the other couch, legs thrown over Cass’s lap.

“Between the two of you, you could break in anywhere, physically or digitally,” she says, ticking the points off on her fingers as she speaks, “you could kick anyone’s ass, you’re super cute together, and you’re probably the least likely to get distracted making out in a corner. Tell me I’m wrong.”

“Hey!” Duke stops massaging Tim’s shoulders. “I wouldn’t get distracted making out with anyone in a corner!”

“I’m pretty sure none of us would except those two,” Tim says, nodding to Steph and Cass.

“I resemble that remark,” Steph says. “And, besides,” she says, turning to Duke, “you, young padawan, have yet to graduate from the Alfred Pennyworth School of Bat-acting. No undercover missions until you have your certificate. That’s the rule.”

“Wait,” Duke says, “am I actually gonna get a certificate?”

“Too hard to keep track of all the paper, so we switched to a digital badge system instead,” Babs says. “When was the last time you checked your Batquest app? It’s under Skills.”

Duke pulls out his phone and starts scrolling. “There are way too many sections on that thing.”

“That’s what I said!” Dick says, sitting up as much as he can with Jason’s arm weighing him down. “You know how this started? Stickers. All I wanted was stickers. I made a cute little app with stickers. And then—” Dick waves his hands in the universal Bat sign for a whole bunch of shit happened that I don’t want to talk about, “—so I left the project to Babs and Tim, and I come back to all this.”

“RPG themes make everything better!” Tim says.

“Seconded,” Babs says.

Dick throws his hands up. “I don’t even understand how the points and leveling system works! I just guess whenever I need to change the code!”

“Actually, I don’t totally understand it either,” Tim says.

Babs winces. “Seconded.”

“Okay, you’re all getting distracted here!” Steph says. “I mean, I think one of you should definitely fix that soon, because girl wants her Batpoints—but we have tickets to buy! I am officially nominating Dick and Cass for the mission. Dick or Cass, do you object?”

“No objections,” Cass says.

“No objections.” Dick smiles at Cass. “I feel like it’s been a long time since we did a mission together.”

“Dick and Cass have been officially nominated,” Babs says. “Anyone else?”

“Me and Tim,” Jason says, raising the hand that isn’t on Dick’s shoulder. “Same reasons as Dick and Cass.”

Steph flails on the couch, nearly kicking Cass. “Excuse me, you guys would totally get distracted making out!”

Tim raises his hand. “Veto. I get sick on cruises.”

Jason stares at him. “You live on a boat.”

“I didn’t say I get seasick,” Tim says. “Cruise ships are like an incubator for any infectious disease. My parents took me on one once and I had diarrhea for like a week straight. Never again.”

Steph wrinkles her nose. “TMI, dude.”

[queen-of-andor]

I like how Jason is trying to help a kid and Babs comes in as sees that Jason is trying and is in a tough spot like with the recent WFA and in Batman: Urban Legends.

You are right, anon!

Jason always helps little kids, they remind him of himself.

On the newest Wayne Family adventures chapter:

And on batman:urban legends:

Notice that he tells the kid to call Oracle for help. Jason knows that Babs has his back especially when it comes to protecting little kids.

[gilverrwrites]

Comic inspiration anon here again :) I think I read a few of your works, got super woahed and tunnelvisioned and didn't think about how big the list would become considering how much you write.

I'm most curious about DC characters, bruce, jason, slade, and such :) just a top 10 dc comics would also be very insightful. Thank you so much.

Bruce Wayne

Ngl, I’m heavily inspired by The Arkham Games and BTAS

Less so, due to its newness, but Batman: Caped Crusader was top notch and definitely has wormed it’s way in there too.  

But comics wise, Batman (the 1987-92) is like my basis for comics cause I got a bunch of them for cheap at a car-boot sale as a kid and that’s where it really began for me.

Batman Eternal 2014-15 and Batman and Robin Eternal 2015-16

Hush 2003

His limited appearances in Catwoman (1993-01) and Justice League America (1989-92). I wouldn’t seek these out just for Batman, but they’re good reads.

When I’m channelling his softer side, Wayne Family Adventures

I don’t love Tamaki’s writing (various Detective Comics from 2020-2022) but Dan Mora pencilled a lot of them, and by god does Mora feed us good art. Mora Batman is the image I tend to have in my head when writing.

Extension Batman/Superman: World’s Finest (2022), Mora art, and Waid writing (which is better but not peak- Still very fun, would recommend to anyone, new or old to comics).  

Vocally I’m always imagining Kevin Conroy.

I have a lot of issues with The New 52, but overall I did like The New 52 Adventures of Batman (AKA Batman 2011-16). You should read both the 1988 Death in the Family and 2012 “The Joker” Death of The Family for Bruce and Jason.

But like, there are thousands and thousands of Batman comics and related media out in the world, these are just the ones I’ve picked up that have left a mark on me. What I’m channelling when I write him could be so far removed from somebody else’s, and we’d both be valid even if our portrayals vary vastly.

Jason, we don’t get the luxury of being so picky with because he doesn’t have nearly as much content, and most of it isn’t great. (That doesn’t mean people can’t have opposing opinions/ideas of him and still both be correct though)

Jason Todd

Personally, I’d skip his pre-crisis, Ginger Dick Grayson story line from 1983. Go straight to Batman 408-411, then 416, 422-429 (1987-1988), for pre-death Jason. (I don’t think this is pivotal reading to enjoy him as a character, but they’re there if you want every piece of Jason content you can consume.

Read Under the Hood 2005-06

Then watch Batman: Under the Red Hood 2010

You can also read Batman: Under the Red Hood 2011 (standalone) if you’d like, but I don’t recall it adding a whole lot more to the story.

I’d re-recommend Batman Eternal and Batman and Robin Eternal too.

Then you’ve got Red Hood and the Outlaws (2012-15), Red Hood and Arsenal (2015-16), Red Hood & The Outlaws (2016-18), and Red Hood: Outlaw (2018-20). All four series are very up and down, they have good and bad too them, but over all they all fall a little flat. That said, they are where I draw most of my inspo from. In particular, Red Hood and Arsenal and Red Hood: Outlaw.

There’s also Red Hood: Outlaws (2022-23), which gets more slack than it deserves, but again isn’t great. It does offer some good insight into his morality.

And all of the above feed us good drips into his and Bruce’s relationship.

Again, WFA for softy Jason.

I only think of Batman: Arkham Knight when I’m writing for AK!Jason, but vocally I’m always imagining Troy Baker.

I know I said his appearances are limited in comparison to Big B, but there is still a lot more Jason out there, but these are the pieces I think of most when I’m writing him.

Slade Wilson I've answered already here.

I'm gonna be honest though, if you really want a list of my personal top DC comics I'll give it, but they're all very villain centric, and aren't anything great in the grand scheme lol, they just hit my specific interests on the nail.

[robinvomit]

Yeah… I recall a couple times mentioning as anon that I know nothing of DC aside from reading a bit of WFA (even though not canon), to get an idea of the characters, and, uh… got ripped to shreds. Apparently a lot hate WFA with their soul, like it personally killed their grandma. Felt super bad and stopped mentioning it every time I asked for help. OTL Never actually got helped in the end every time, too. Just an earful of hate about the WebToon comic.

Also, I guess you can also count the 2003 Teen Titans cartoon as part of what I know (along with a couple Batman movies, Batman vs. Superman, and Suicide Squad). I’ve re-watched the cartoon too many times. You’re the first nice person I’ve come across that wants to help. My heart’s gonna burst 🥺🥺🥺🥺

Anyways— um, is it genuinely too much if I ask for mainstream, mainline, oneshots, timelines and ect with multiples? I want to know everything and where to start and to continue. Despite Google being free, it’s hard finding a starting point or something a lot of people agree on (or it could just be me—). 🙏😔

Yeaah. Wfa not being canon and butchering characterization makes it pretty unwelcome — I like some of the art, but I'm also not a fan. But, that doesn't mean I'm going to make you feel bad about it. Elitist fans can kiss my ass. They treat babybats like this then wonder why the comic industry is dying — if I wasn't someone who avoided fandoms? I'd never be here. They have ruined it, it's insane. I've made some comments before.. like, the fact everyone doesn't understand the new Superman trailer because he's in pain because of healing.. like.. canonically, yeah, having your bones and organs heal at rapid speed hurts him! lmfao.

But, I have a little rule of sorts. If you don't read comics, don't speak on comics. If you don't watch dcau, don't speak on dcau. It's not in a mean way — it's more to keep that toxic bs where it belongs; away from people.

Wanting to learn is NOT and NEVER will be a bad thing. I have seen Teen Titans 9327042 over.. I could probably recite it word for word.

I don't believe in being cruel to someone just because they don't have the same knowledge as me. What the actual fuck is the point of knowing so much if I can't share? It's just pointless, tbh.

ANYWAY.

➴ V1 Tim Drake.

Robin: A Hero Reborn ( 1991 ) - first solo arc.

Robin ( 1993 - 2009 ) - a must read solo run. #1 - #100? pure v1 chaos.

Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying - this is the journey to becoming robin.

Young Justice ( 1998 - 2003 ) - half soft, half dickhead. pivotal relationships.

Teen Titans ( 2003 - 2011 ) - a bit more serious, leader tim, a bit older, emotional things.

➴ V2 Tim Drake.

Red Robin ( 2009 - 2011 ) - shows him a bit darker, grieving. must read.

Detective Comics: Rebirth ( 2016 - 2019 ) - getting into soft leader with strong team vibes.

Young Justice ( 2019 - 2021 ) - quite literally a love letter to how he was and what we lost. also, reuniting with his best friend.

Batman: Urban Legends ( "Sum of Our Parts" #4 - #6 ) - good modern Red vibes.

DC Pride: Tim Drake Special ( 2022 ) - not bad writing, explores the shift in his identity.

Extras:

Batman: War Games / War Crimes.

Batgirl ( 2000 - 2006 ) - bunch of crossovers and interactions.

➴ Jason Todd. ( I might catch shit here, idc. )

Batman: A Death in the Family ( 1988 ) - welp. we're gonna start with his death.

Batman: Under the Red Hood ( 2004 - 2006 ) - angry res arc.

Red Hood and The Outlaws ( 2011, New52 ) - redemption, found family, etc.

Red Hood and The Outlaws: Rebirth ( 2016 - 2021 ) - deeper writing.

Batman: Urban Legends ( "Cheer" #1 - #6 ) - one of the best versions of modern jason.

Extras:

Batmin & Robin ( 2009 - 2011 ) - bunch of clashing, dick & damian.

Three Jokers ( 2020 ) - stupid ass emotional arc otl

➴ Dick Grayson.

Batman: Year Three / A Lonely Place of Dying - early transition to nightwing.

Nightwing ( 1996 - 2009 ) - the iconic solo.

Nightwing: Rebirth ( 2016 - ongoing ) - modern, humor, warm.

Grayson ( 2014 - 2016 ) - undercover spy.

Nightwing: The Target ( onehsot ) - a great single. a lot about his morals.

Extras:

Batman and Robin Eternal ( 2015 - 2016 ) - leader dick.

Titans ( 1993 - 2003 ) - classics.

➴ Damian Wayne.

Batman and Son ( 2006 ) - not his first appearance but first big one.

Batman and Robin ( 2009 - 2011 ) - dick as batman, wonderful duo.

Robin: Son of Batman ( 2015 - 2016 ) - obligatory batfam redemption arc.

Super Sons ( 2017 - 2018 ) - side eyes dc. don't get attached.

Robin ( 2021 - 2022 ) - growth, friend stuff- actually a teen.

Extras:

Teen Titans ( 2016 - 2020 ) - leader dams, dark shit.

Detective Comics: Rebirth - and again with our family tension.

➴ Kon-El.

Adventures of Superman #500 ( 1993 ) - first appearance post Superman death.

Superboy ( 1994 - 2002 ) - ssooollloooo, my favorite.

Young Justice ( 1998 - 2003 ) - sorry, it's an obligatory run.

Teen Titans ( 2003 - 2011 ) - older, mature, character development.

Superboy and the Ravers ( 1996 - 1998 ) - basically a coming of age movie.

Extras:

Superboy: Man of Tomorrow ( 2023 ) - It's not exactly 90s Kon but it's basically all dc is willing to give us that's recent otl

Dark Crisis: Young Justice ( 2022 ) - the dialog is fucking hilarious and awful but it's a throwback.

[celaenaeiln]

Thanks for answering my questions previously!! I saw that you're not a big fan of fanon batfam and I've been wondering if you consider the batfamily: wayne adventures webtoon canon or fanon?

Someone told me that batman fans aren't happy about the WFA, but have recently accepted it over the Gotham War. Also I feel like WFA is one of the main causes of an influx of fanon fans(? If that makes sense)

WFA is fanon. It was meant to be a fun past time that DC decided to purchase under their name because it has characters they created which means they have copyright claims to it. Also webtoons in general are all fan-made so it's not something that should be taken seriously in the first place.

However here's where it gets confusing. WFA is fanon, but the characterization of the characters is not too far off. Like yes, all of them are way too happy to be truthful to the comics but also it's written that way on purpose because thats the intent.

Another anon asked me about this a long time ago but I've been holding off on it because I don't even know my own feelings about it! I've been religiously avoiding reading it because it mixes canon characterization and fanon in such a perfect way that it's hard to decipher what's true and what's not.

But because it's not canon, I can't use it to back up an argument or explain something because technically it's just digital fanfic that was acquired by DC due to copywriting and business profits.

About influx of fans from WFA - mixed feelings on that as well. You can't really help how you enter a fandom, it's just different and unqiue and it depends on what was going on at the time you entered the fandom. But also when you enter the fandom, you have certain expectations of characters because of what you saw of them them before you entered.

And that's...complicated. I guess I feel like it shouldn't be a problem if people understand that things in canon are different and shouldn't be fought against because it's not like how it's portrayed in fanon or WFA. And I think most people do get that but there's also some people who made some comments about how the Gotham War was terrible writing because the batfamily was fighting and that's not right. A comic shouldn't be judged on how many good feelings it provokes, it should be judged on character portrayal, plot events, character interaction, and excitement. And what Bruce is doing sucks but it makes sense because he's in the middle of a downward spiral. His struggle is way out of control and that's the whole point of the Gotham War. It's well-written for all the above mentioned things even if it isn't the happiest of storylines. But at the same time, I struggle to remember any batman arc that's happy. Hasn't been that way for decades unfortunately.

I'm really confused over WFA so I haven't said anything about it so far because I can't write about something I don't know. I refuse to read it because I just spent years decoding my brain from fanon nonsense and WFA mixes fanon and canon characterization in a way that regresses that effort. So the best I can say for people who enjoy WFA or are coming in through it is, enjoy the webtoon but also have fun exploring the canon comics. They're really great :)