#wfa anon how are you

[cyanide-sippy-cup]

On a happier note at least Wayne family adventures is doing well (not trying to minimise things just trying to lighten the mood sorry if this seems callous)

That it is! I said this about the previous chapter, but this really feels like what the season was trying to build up to. The dialogue is amazing, with such bangers as "you're my strength", "I don't want to lose you", "I'm so proud of you". It's everything I predicted the plot would be and I love it.

But. The big thing. I can't keep it in the tags anymore. The art gets WACK. Absolutely no hate to the artist or artists but every time a new episode gets released it takes me OUTTT. I just feel like there's a certain level comicbook art is usually expected to be and when it doesn't meet the requirements it's always really funny. Again nothing but respect to the artist, they're working under Webtoon and DC. That's a recipe for disaster. And it is a (free) comic that releases a new episode every week so like totally fair to mess up. In like a physical or normally published comic it would be unacceptable but those usually get months. Here I'm honestly impressed at how often they do manage to nail the cool shots. Cause when they're cooking, they're cooking (like the final shot of this episode fucks).

[frownyalfred]

Hi. I'm not a canon purist and enjoy some fanon content very much, but I do think people in the fandom should at least familiarize themselves with the canon content and source material. It's easier to break the "rules" so to speak and experiment with canon when you know what that actually is. I've noticed a lot of fans that are only familiar with fanon criticise content that doesn't line up with what they believe to be canon but isn't. The Red Hood for example. I've seen writers who portray him as the violent criminal he is in much of the canon be completely decimated by Jason fans who only know fanon and the retconned version of Red Hood and completely deny canon even exists and refuse to even glance at the comics. Transformative works are important and playing in the sandbox is for everyone but fandom literally cannot exist without canon. Canon is important and people can do whatever they want with it but they should respect it enough to at least look at it.

Hi anon, I'm going to hold your hand as I say this, and I will say it as gently as I can: This is still a form of canon purism.

We can absolutely agree that readers shouldn't berate or abuse writers for how they choose to portray characters in fic, whether that's a more canon-faithful characterization or a popular fanon version. If readers don't like how a character is portrayed, we should encourage them to hit the back button instead.

I want to draw your attention to some of the words you used in your ask above: "should" "respect" "decimated" etc. Those are some strong words to describe how you think people need to behave, in order to exist in fandom. Of course, there is no fandom without canon source material -- I'm not denying that. But with such a wide and varied canon, the DC fandom has examples of the Red Hood you mention above, AND the "retconned" version you also reference. Both are canon, as in actually, officially, canon. WFA is canon, and that Red Hood looks very different from the Red Hood you describe.

Now, I think your issue is that you enjoy a certain version of canon, and you're frustrated that the fandom doesn't also, as trends ebb and flow, enjoy that canon as much as you do. Again, I want to acknowledge that just because a certain version is popular, it doesn't give folks the right to berate authors for writing a different version. But again, I don't think that's what we're really talking about here. From your ask's tone, I think you're suggesting that people should, in order to participate in fandom, read that older canon, that different version, or as you say, "glance at it" before enjoying or writing the fanon version.

Guess what? They actually, really, really, don't have to. It sounds like you have some issues with judging your fellow fandom members who don't read what you do or reference certain canon. But the magic of this fandom is, you can enter it at any point. We're a big pool, and if someone's entry point is the Lego Batman movie and that's it, that's still valid.

Fandom stems from canon, yes, but I almost never hear people talk about movies, or web comics, or other media when they talk about "required reading." It's always a comic. I really wish people would reflect on that before suggesting it as the one true path to being a fan.

The other thing I don't see asks like these reference ever is the reality that sometimes a fandom outstrips its canon material, and that that's an eventuality in some spaces. Fanon interpretations become popular, and people write about those specific characterizations or scenarios. They ebb and flow, like I mentioned, and some are more canon-faithful than others. Some completely reject canon, and again -- it's still fandom. It doesn't make it better or worse than a more canon-faithful fic. It's just different.

I had a couple asks about this topic a few weeks ago, and I'm assuming you haven't read those or you likely wouldn't have sent me this ask. But in them, I discuss how sometimes we need to suck it up and be unhappy that canon-faithful fics aren't as popular in a fandom at a specific time, and stop punishing fellow fans for writing and enjoying those fics. And we really need to stop shitting on them publicly on Tumblr.

Because often, what you're really saying is that you wish more people would write more canon-faithful fics, and stop writing ones about fanon topics you don't enjoy or think are accurate. And to that, I again say, there is nothing you can or should do to change that behavior from others. If you want to read it, write it, enjoy it, etc, do it yourself. Build the comic-faithful community here, write fics and promote challenges, create a discord channel and discuss your "required reading" there.

We are all writing and reading fanfiction at the end of the day. It is a great equalizer in many ways. My silly Lego Batman fic is just as valid as a canon-faithful rewrite of a certain Batman issue. One is not better than the other, or more deserving of respect. You will never get me to admit otherwise on this blog.

tl;dr: people should absolutely not berate authors who choose to write canon-faithful characterizations. however, there are layers of judgement and disdain many DC comics canon-faithful authors/readers have for their fellow fans that I think we need to examine critically in order to coexist respectfully.

[gilverrwrites]

Hellooo, I hope ur doing well ;) Can I request Bruce Wayne/Batman for the headcanon meme ? I know this is a lot and I apologise in advance lol, but I’m genuinely so interested about your takes on Bruce 🫶🏼 Hi anon, I hope you don't mind but I'm posting this as a text post so I can add a read more to it. Thank you so much for the ask, I'm honored that you're curious my HCs. Again thank you, and have a super rest of your day! 💖💖💖

• what religion are they? how do they practice? Canonically, I believe he was raised catholic, and identifies as an atheist because if there was an all knowing God, why would he let Gotham exist as it is?

But I’ve always had trouble rationalising religion in comics. I’m also an atheist but if I’d met/knew Gods literally walked the Earth (Zeus for example) I would be having a crisis of faith. Pretty sure Superman once met the Christian God? Bruce clearly has a stronger sense of belief than I.  

So, practice wise; Growing up would be church on Sundays, grace before dinner. Nightly prayers. Once his parents had passed, while Bruce would be questioning his faith, I don’t think Alfred would have enforced such things if Bruce didn’t want to continue practicing.

• what holidays do they decorate for? For the longest time he didn’t decorate for any. Alfred decorated at least for Christmas every year, but Bruce stopped noticing once he became Batman.

It wasn’t until a young Dick mentioned he’d never been trick or treating that Bruce started to put the effort in. That year Dick had the best Robin Hood costume, Bruce dressed as Little John, and Alfred as Friar Tuck. Not only did Dick get to go trick or treating, but Bruce and Alfred decked out the front yard for any local kids too.

When thanksgiving rolled around, Alfred was delighted that Bruce seemed to care about it again, having gone out to buy new centre pieces. And that year was the first year since he was child that Bruce helped put up the Christmas decorations.

Every year he tried to one up the last, however, his presence on the day dwindles until Dick goes off to college and Bruce’s motivation to care about such frivolous things while Gotham needs him is gone. But this exact process repeats with every adopted child until there’s always somebody home, be they young and living with him or old and visiting.

• what clubs / sports were they involved in as a child / teenager When he dropped out of school, that also meant quitting any clubs and sports. The lack of team sports is probably a contributing factor to his inability to communicate well with others outside of strategy. However, prior to that he was a Cub Scout, as well as tennis and fencing (fuckin’ Rich kids).

Post homeschool (much like in the Gotham TV show) Alfred ensured Bruce was still doing outdoorsy activities; camping, hiking, learning survival skills. As well as Bruce insisting on multiple forms of combat training. He continued fencing.

• do they take any medications? No. That’s not to say he shouldn’t be on medication, he just doesn’t. Hard to speak to a professional when you can only tell them half of your life.

He does however take daily vitamins along with his protein, creatine etc. If he’s not taking supplements, Alfred is sneaking them into his food. He eats nothing but protein, gotta make sure he’s getting his nutrients somewhere.

• do they watch the olympics? do they prefer summer or winter Rarely has the time. But if and when he does sit down to watch I’d say his preferred watches are; tennis, fencing, boxing, and judo. Sports that mean something to him. For that reason he also prefers the summer games over winter.

• what are they like when they're sick? Nightmare. Alfred is a saint for putting up with it, honestly. That WFA comic where he’s trying desperately to get back to work whilest injured is 100% accurate to my imaginings. Even when he’s too sick to move, he’s still thinking up ways he can sneak out of bed, wondering if he should build a batlaptop for these sorts of occasions.

Crime is never sick; therefore Batman can’t be sick!

• what do they usually buy in a gift shop? It varies from place to place but typically:

Fridge magnet and/or some other small kitchen accessories for Alfred.

Stationary for Damian.

Preferably a cola drink, but if not a snack for Tim. He’s specifically looking for decorative packaging that can be saved. [See this Tim HC]

Pin badges for Babs.

Postcards for Dick.

An oversized hoodie for Cass. Black only.

An oversized hoodie for Steph. Tacky only.

Keying for Jason.

Puzzles or decorative decks of playing cards. (Duke is into tabletop card games, Bruce thinks they’re the same thing)

A coffee mug for himself.

• what color was their childhood bedroom? Blue, and it’s still blue but a lot of the furniture has changed. Can’t sleep in a kids bed forever.

Most of the new furniture is sleek, modern looking and black. He likes the gothic style, but this is where he often brings his dates/hook up, and the minimalist style suits his image better.

The old bed, desk, toy box etc haven’t been thrown out or anything, they’ve been used by most of his family as they’ve grown up and are currently in Damian’s room. Everyone who has used the desk (B included) has carved their their initials on the underside of it.

• what does a typical day off work look like for them? A day off? What’s that? Seriously, even if he’s not being Batman, he’s being Brucie, Mr Wayne, Matches, or Dad or even just working out.

On the rare, rare, rare occasions he’s not doing any of those things, the first thing he does is sleep in. He probably needs to sleep for 5 days straight, but he’ll only sleep until 10/11ish.

By now he’s missed breakfast (which is served from 8-9), so he’s latching onto the first person to pick up the phone and taking them out for brunch. By now he’s already itching to get back in the cave, and to thwart this he forces himself to stay in the city; go to a museum, walk in that park, visit a friend, go shopping for (another) new watch, anything but return home.

Will surprise Damian by picking him up from school. Damian, as he gets older externally complains and cringes more and more, but he loves it.

When they get home, he becomes a nuisance until dinner, offering help to everyone with anything to distract himself. It’s appreciated but nobody needs help with homework or housework.

After dinner is the home stretch, and the easiest part. He gathers as many people as he can in the family room for films or games, and by the time they’re done it’s bedtime.

He’s in the batcave at midnight.

• how many pillows do they sleep with? One. He has at least ten in the bed, every night she shifts all but his favourite to the floor, and every morning Alfred makes the bed and puts them all back and arranges them perfectly.

• what's their least favorite chore? He rarely does chores, but Alfred must have time off. The first time he took a week off since Bruce became Batman was the first time he realised the impracticality of having a CAVE! So much sweeping and dusting and everything smells damp, he has no idea how Alfred keeps it liveable because after 2 days Bruce was overwhelmed and ready to risk it all by moving everything upstairs.

• how often do they do their laundry? He doesn’t. If Alfred isn’t available, he’s been specifically instructed to take anything that needs cleaning to the dry cleaners. Not because he’s incapable of doing laundry, he’s not completely inept at doing normal things. He just thinks he can do it better. Which often results in the washer-dryer being ‘upgraded’ in ways that nobody ever needs, and Alfred hates it.

• what is their favorite wine / liquor? Prefers wine to spirits, specifically red. Or better yet, champagne.

When he does drink spirits he leans towards brandy, the same kind that his mother would drink.

• what is their favorite scent of candle? Citrusy, fresh scents. Something strong that pierced the musty smell of the Batcave or the damp of the city. Sage & citrus, lemon lime, maybe even mint cucumber.

• what's their guilty pleasure tv show? Again, he rarely watches TV. But I think at least once while on ordered bed rest he ‘accidentally’ watched every season of the Kardashian’s. He 'hated' every second.

He’s assigned all of his children a Kardashian and keeps up to date with every episode, just as a person who hates the show would do. He will never tell anyone else.

Tim knows. Bruce knows that Tim knows but they’ve never discussed it. Tim has never seen a single episode, but he’s seen memes, and will quote them in front of people to make Bruce sweat.

• have they ever done volunteer work? Bruce is a known philanthropist. The Wayne Foundation is a non-profit which primary cause is funding charities, hospitals, medical research, urban renewal, etc.

He puts a lot of money into The Wayne Hospital (or whatever its called dependant on the media). He also funds a lot of youth centres, and rehabilitation centres.

But as for actual hands-on charity work, no. It anything it would cause more harm than good.

Could you imagine being homeless, starving, at your lowest, and when you arrive there’s fucking media vans and photographers everywhere, cataloguing your worst? And then inside, the herald prince of the city that has screwed you over, billionaire Brucie Wayne is serving you ladles of dirt-cheap slop? You'd be mortified, pissed.

• do they listen to music or watch tv more often? Definitely music. TV is time consuming; music is easier to multi-task. I don't think he listens to much of anything other than classical and meditative music. Maybe some kind of classic rock workout playlist on Spotify that Babs occasionally hacks into and keeps adding back-to-back plays of Black Betty. Bruce gets so into his workouts that he doesn't notice until one day he realises he's done a 2-hour cardio session and Black Betty has been playing the entire time.

• do they watch the superbowl even if they aren't into football? Not into football and barely has the time. However, when it's football season, the men (and some women) in his social circles go crazy for it, so he keeps up with the matches through news reports and tries to watch the final, Batman missions permitting.

(Psst. I'm from the UK and know nothing about American football. I presume the Superbowl is preceded by a series of tournament matches like euro football (soccer) is?)

• do they collect anything? Children

Watches, and cars. Later in life, he's fixed on these things a lot more, because he's been collecting them for so long. But they started purely as a way to fit in with his high society peers. To make him appear more normal.

Imagine that scene in American Psycho where they're comparing busisness cards, but it's Gotham’s richest competing over who has the latest watch, the nicest vintage car etc. Now that he knows what he likes he's more focused in on those; he like vintage European watches and American cars.

I also love the idea that Dick once bought him an ugly novelty tie (completely earnestly) on like his second Christmas at the Manor, and that quickly became a tradition. Every year he gets a new tie, the most hideous the kids can find, and the following year, Bruce wears it during Christmas dinner.

• what hill are they willing to die on? Mint is the superior dessert flavour, milkshakes, ice cream, Oreos, coffee syrups. Dark chocolate and mint = peak.

[kindlingkeen]

Hi! I absolutely adore your Asymmetrical Warfare series on AO3 (it’s got me back on a competent Jason Todd kick, which, there’s honestly too little of so if you have any recs pls fire away)!

I did have a curiosity that I hope you don’t mind answering though: are there specific reason why you’re not a Tim fan? And does that extend to other members of the batfam as well?

Hi, anon! I’m so glad you’re enjoying Asymmetrical Warfare (competent Jason ftw!). 🙌

Re: Tim. I should probably be more conscientious with my wording around Tim. A lot of what I say in ao3 comments or here tends toward facetious, and tone doesn’t really come across well online.

Which is not to say there aren’t things about Tim that bug me. For example—canon Tim, there are more than few instances of him being downright shitty to Jay’s memory. Case in point, from Batman #456, Tim imagines Jason’s ghost giving him a pep talk about becoming a hero and Jason says he killed himself because he didn’t listen to Batman.

Ah, no sir, the responsible party was the psychopathic clown with a crowbar and some explosives, not the 15 year old trying to save his newly discovered biological mother.

But is this really Tim the character’s fault? Or is it dc’s fault for creating a narrative that brutally murdered a child and then spent decades trashing his memory and blatantly victim-blaming him for it?

It’s really more fanon depictions of Tim that I have a problem with. In particular, the tendency to project Jason’s trauma onto Tim. Trying to spin the white boy who came from an affluent two-parent household as somehow more neglected than the kid whose parents are dead/incarcerated and was literally homeless is just ??? Jason’s backstory touches on so many important societal issues (the gutting of the social safety net, the industrial prison complex, the opioid epidemic, the criminalization of poverty, the stigmatization of sex work), and this approach sweeps all of that under the rug.

It also really gets my goat how many fics masquerade as being about Jason, but are actually just a vehicle for Tim time. These stories tend to dramatize Tim’s character, whether it’s woobie, touch-starved little Timmy who needs constant reassurance and protection, or smarter than everyone ever, can not be out thought or out fought, is actually a CEO while he should be in high school Tim. My problem with this type of narrative is usually two-fold. 1) It dumbs down Jason’s characterization (which should be so rich and complex) to ridiculously oversimplified motivations and actions. And 2) it turns Tim into a caricature of himself, instead of a compelling character with a balance of strengths and weaknesses and a normal amount of teenaged self-esteem.

It probably doesn’t sound like it from this blog post, but I do really try hard in life not to yuck other people’s yum. Just because I don’t care for how Tim is portrayed, it doesn’t make it inherently bad or wrong. And all of this aside, I’ve read plenty of fics where I enjoyed Tim just fine. For example, I love how @bonerot19 writes Tim in their Something in the Static series. And Tim and Jay’s dynamic in WFA is often amusing.

So, yeah, bottom line. Tim is … fine. I’m just not a fan, per se. I try to at least write him fairly in Asymmetrical Warfare, with both the realistic shortcoming of a teenage boy and the awesomeness of Robin. He’s never going to get the same amount of page time as the rest of the crew is, though.

Re: the rest of the batfam. I mean, I often want to bop Bruce on the nose. Especially canon Bruce who beats up his kids and is completely unrepentant about it. But, honestly, that’s not my Bruce. My Bruce, who I love and love to hate in turn, would never do that. (Compartmentalization, the key to happy fic reading and writing.)

I love Babs and Dick. I want to be besties with Steph, but in reality she’s way too cool for me. Duke and Cass I’m less familiar with, but have no problems with. Damian is growing on me, and if dc would just give up the game and admit that Dami and Jay met in the LoA and are actually super special murder brothers at heart, that would be great. Selina is a queen and someday I will write that Selina + Jay and Dami meet in the LoA fic I’ve been dreaming about.

Re: competent Jason fic recs. One of my favorites is butcherbird, fly away home by e_va @e-vasong. Bonus rec, the same author put out a new fic recently, another way to make it to ten, and it not only features competent Jason, it’s Jason & Tim, and I like Tim in it.

Thanks so much for the ask, anon! Really great questions. Kudos if you made it through the whole post. 💙

[celaenaeiln]

Hello, love. I just wanted to say that I get on tumblr once in a blue moon and i came here from Chapter 10 of your react fic on ao3. And I love you??? I'm BINGING your Dick Grayson posts and I love them. Even if you didn't have screenshot proof, i would believe you 100%, but i LOVE that you put screenshots and pictures and references. Genuinely, the Best. I need to comment on the chapter with all of thoughts and squealing but it's like 3am for me XD, so I'll have to do it later. Thank you so much!!

(And I'm super tired and I haven't looked through everything of yours but i was wondering how exactly you felt about WFA and Dickie in that, particularly the most recent episodes wirh him and Bruce. Only if you'd like, i dont mind)

Link to fic

OMG BESTIE!!!! HI!!!!

GIRLIE YOU CAN LITERALLY LEAVE A DOT AND YOU'D HAVE ME KICKING AND SCREAMING ILYSM!!!! <333!!!

IM ALWAYS SUPER SUPER SUUUUUPPPPEEERRRRR HAPPY TO SEE YOU!!!!

HMU LATER I HAVE SO MUCH TO SCREAM WITH YOU ABOUT!!! omg LOVEEEE talking to you, you always get me hyped!!!

babe, i'll talk about everything with you, with utter joy! Omg sorry for the late response, you and anon especially, I genuinely just had no idea how I felt about wfa.

I thought about this for a long time but it wasn't until I got a third post on it that I realized what i thought about it and why.

I, personally, kinda hate it. But let me also start off by saying that because I hate it, I don't read it. I've seen some of it on tumblr and it's cute but also the thing is it's not really accurate and I'm alllll about not standing for mischaracterization just because there's already so much of it present in the batfam fandom, a serialization of this just makes the incorrect assumptions worse.

See, the thing about wfa is that it's the batfam set in a very idealized world. And because of how the perfect world is created, some of the characters personalities and actions have been altered. So their trauma and beliefs are kinda bashed away, but it's implied that their histories still follow canon comics.

And that's where it pisses me off. If wfa was pure crack and humor, I would love the heck out of it, but the irritating thing is it tries to stay accurate to the characterizations. But because it's set in such a perfect world, the character's personalities are distorted in some aspects but left alone in others.

So what's the problem with this? It causes the webtoon to be both correct in their characterizations and absolutely as far wrong as possible. If the webtoon was completely wrong with the portrayal of the characters, it would be easy to enjoy or critique the content and easy to at least be aware of what's true and what's not. But it's not like that. It's 50% absolutely correct and 50% horribly, couldn't-be-more wrong which just increases the amount of mischaracterizations that going on about the characters. If there's a problem it lasts for liek two seconds and they immediately fix it without exploring the character's thought process in any way that can be taken seriously. All their problems are treated like scratching at the newly healed skin of a wound. It's useless but a temporarily worthwhile distraction.

Of the pages I've seen, I also don't like it because while it's light hearted, it's not my style of humor. Everyone is literally just a big manchild. It's nice in a objective kind of way and it's entertaining in that it comes up with a lot of fantasy scenarios that are new but the character's personalities are bland and all kind of the same. They're all happy, sarcastic, and pouty.

If this was the masked singer style and wfa characters were drawn with no identifying features - just a blank circle for arms and some rectangles for body parts but had dialogue, you literally wouldn't be able to tell them apart.

So in summary I dislike it because while the super idealized world is nice, the character's personalities are altered only sometimes to make them act in a way they never would in canon while at the same time, picking and choosing what they like from canon relationships which causes the horrible mischaracterization and bland personalities. It's manchild humor and lame jokes. But it's very creative and I can appreciate it for that. So I dislike but I don't hate it. It just sort of irritates me.

[ectonurites]

do you have any batfam fic recs that aren't fanon or are mostly true to canon? i started out as wfa fan and i used to really enjoy the more fanony fics before i started reading comics and realised how much characters were changed. so if you have any recs that stay true to canon, i'd love to read them!!

oh anon honestly I haven’t touched batfic in a long time [mainly because i just get so picky/i can only take so much heavily fanon-y stuff before it just stops being enjoyable for me personally] so I really am not the best person to give recs like this </3

if anyone following me has recs though pleaze feel free to reply/add onto this!!

[batmanshole]

If you had free reins over a new batman cartoon adaptation, how would you go about it?

oh god. oh god. anon yuo are about to enter an unskippable cutscene. i love you.

SMILEEESSSS okay so :-) it would be like. multiple seasons. okay? like we're going LONG HAUL on this bitch. it would follow my personal canon of events (mostly post-crisis pre-flashpoint w some modifications and inclusion of a tiny bit of rebirth stuff) and i can't explain how i'd like the art to look but i can picture it.

i'd want it to be very... balanced. like i'd want parts to be dark, but there could still be opportunity for fun. i'd want a lot of focus on motive, on why, on emotions. and maybe not even explicitly you know!! like just. character study stuff.

i want it to show off complicated relationships, where people hurt each other and no one is right or wrong and there's anger where there is love too. and that's not just like the "bat family" in here. i want to explore bruce and harvey/two face. i want to explore bruce and harley and healing from trauma. i want the joker to only be relevant for a few seasons before they start paying attention to other villains.

i think the series begins with bruce in his early days as batman. he's already become batman and has been going at it for a while (we don't need another origin story. there's too fucking many.)

and while i do want to focus a lot on the robins, i don't want it in a WFA-style thing.

i don't know how to explain it but they wouldn't be living all together under one big roof. things happen. people fight. people are outsiders. they try to kill eachother. you know? not everyone is happy together.

other misc. things i wanna include:

barbara stays in her wheelchair 4 ever and is dykey with babs

jason is never fully reintegrated in the family. and if he has to be, it's after a LOT of time and work, and would only come at the end of the series, so there's no awkward jump from villain to Beloved Family Member like there sometimes is in some comics.

running gag of tim drake being lame as fuck. also robin branded skateboard that he falls off of

spoiler rolerskates. enough said. also steph has curly hair

duke has better hair than the fucking. bullshit they give him in 90% of the comics.

damian and talia being visibly brown. NO GREEN EYES!!!!!!!! and they get to interact with their culture in a normal way and people are consulted on this.

bruce is jewish. he has a bat-themed menorah. this is never explicitly mentioned but it is present in the background.

cass' disability is portrayed well. she doesn't speak normally or use sign language but her own way of communicating.

clark is there sometimes!!! they have a thing going on but it never becomes official, not because i don't want them to, but because bruce is shit at communication.

bette cameos. idk how she'd fit in with the timeline i just want her there.

duke and jason being assholes to eachother but like in a way where you're like oh ueah these guys are brothers.

dick and damian being best brothers/father and son ever

DISCOWING CANON!!!! OR ELSE!!!!!!!!! and mulletwing too.

steph takes over as nightwing at least once.

talia written better than 99% of comics have ever written her.

the joker makes a comment about liberals at least once but even the other villains seem sick of his shit

riddler pronoun pin

[wingdingery]

Trick or treat!!!

Hello very secret anon ;)

For you, another trip to the WIP icebox! This is from a verse I mentally call “WFA vibes but they’re all poly and having complicated relations” (or BPA – Bat Polycule Adventures for short, and yes I do have a diagram lol).

__________

“Listen, Dick—you and Cass,” Steph says, gesturing between the two of them with a flick of her finger. She’s sitting on the other couch, legs thrown over Cass’s lap.

“Between the two of you, you could break in anywhere, physically or digitally,” she says, ticking the points off on her fingers as she speaks, “you could kick anyone’s ass, you’re super cute together, and you’re probably the least likely to get distracted making out in a corner. Tell me I’m wrong.”

“Hey!” Duke stops massaging Tim’s shoulders. “I wouldn’t get distracted making out with anyone in a corner!”

“I’m pretty sure none of us would except those two,” Tim says, nodding to Steph and Cass.

“I resemble that remark,” Steph says. “And, besides,” she says, turning to Duke, “you, young padawan, have yet to graduate from the Alfred Pennyworth School of Bat-acting. No undercover missions until you have your certificate. That’s the rule.”

“Wait,” Duke says, “am I actually gonna get a certificate?”

“Too hard to keep track of all the paper, so we switched to a digital badge system instead,” Babs says. “When was the last time you checked your Batquest app? It’s under Skills.”

Duke pulls out his phone and starts scrolling. “There are way too many sections on that thing.”

“That’s what I said!” Dick says, sitting up as much as he can with Jason’s arm weighing him down. “You know how this started? Stickers. All I wanted was stickers. I made a cute little app with stickers. And then—” Dick waves his hands in the universal Bat sign for a whole bunch of shit happened that I don’t want to talk about, “—so I left the project to Babs and Tim, and I come back to all this.”

“RPG themes make everything better!” Tim says.

“Seconded,” Babs says.

Dick throws his hands up. “I don’t even understand how the points and leveling system works! I just guess whenever I need to change the code!”

“Actually, I don’t totally understand it either,” Tim says.

Babs winces. “Seconded.”

“Okay, you’re all getting distracted here!” Steph says. “I mean, I think one of you should definitely fix that soon, because girl wants her Batpoints—but we have tickets to buy! I am officially nominating Dick and Cass for the mission. Dick or Cass, do you object?”

“No objections,” Cass says.

“No objections.” Dick smiles at Cass. “I feel like it’s been a long time since we did a mission together.”

“Dick and Cass have been officially nominated,” Babs says. “Anyone else?”

“Me and Tim,” Jason says, raising the hand that isn’t on Dick’s shoulder. “Same reasons as Dick and Cass.”

Steph flails on the couch, nearly kicking Cass. “Excuse me, you guys would totally get distracted making out!”

Tim raises his hand. “Veto. I get sick on cruises.”

Jason stares at him. “You live on a boat.”

“I didn’t say I get seasick,” Tim says. “Cruise ships are like an incubator for any infectious disease. My parents took me on one once and I had diarrhea for like a week straight. Never again.”

Steph wrinkles her nose. “TMI, dude.”

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

I like how Jason is trying to help a kid and Babs comes in as sees that Jason is trying and is in a tough spot like with the recent WFA and in Batman: Urban Legends.

You are right, anon!

Jason always helps little kids, they remind him of himself.

On the newest Wayne Family adventures chapter:

And on batman:urban legends:

Notice that he tells the kid to call Oracle for help. Jason knows that Babs has his back especially when it comes to protecting little kids.

[thealexanderfiles]

1. Yes, but what they know is not the full truth typically. Best example is in Young Justice, the world is made to believe their base is the Hall of Justice, when that’s just a ruse, the real base is an orbiting satellite in space called the Watchtower.

2. Yes the public knows about Batman. The degree of how much they know about him can vary by story.

3. Both? Definitely vigilante, but in Gotham that means hero.

4. Yes!! In fact, my favorite interpretation is that people think Superman doesn’t even have a secret identity, and that his “secret identity” is as his birth self, Kal-El, and that he lives in the fortress of solitude. Lex Luthor uses xenophobia to rally people, saying that an alien shouldn’t be a protector of/champion for humanity.

5. Nightwing!!

6. Oooof there’s a lot here.

Canon I’ll go: Clark/Lous, Batman/Catwoman, Bruce/Talia, Dick/Barbara, Dick/Starfire, Tim/Stephanie, Tim/Bernard Dowd, Barry Allen/Iris West, Wally West/Linda Park, Wally West/Artemis Crock (Young Justice), Jason Todd/Artemis of Bana Migdrall (cannot spell that haha), Green Arrow/Black Canary, Harley Quinn/Poison Ivy, Raven/Beast Boy, and I’m definitely missing some but that’s what I’m thinking of rn.

Non-Canon (NOT INCLUDING BATCEST OR ANY OTHER INCEST/AGE-DIFFERENCE SHIPS!!): Batman/Superman, Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman, basically Batman/anyone on the JL besides Shazam, Dick Grayson/Wally West (love this one), Jason Todd/Roy Harper, Tim Drake/Kon Kent, Tim Drake/Kon Kent/Bernard Dowd, Damian Wayne/Jon Kent, Hal Jordan/Barry Allen, Ted Kord (Blue Beetle)/Booster Gold (practically canon lol), Stephanie Brown/Cassandra Cain, and I’m definitely missing some but that’s what I’m thinking of rn.

7. Really really really really weird.

8. Jon Kent is the second main universe Superboy!! He is the son of Lois and Clark, and is Damian Wayne’s best friend. Recently, he was aged up for various reasons, so he’s roughly 18 I THINK, which puts him a few years ahead of Damian which made people Not Thrilled. He has operated (and I think technically still is operating) as Superman himself, and he is bisexual!!

9. Yep still Nightwing (Dick Grayson). Stephanie Brown, Damian Wayne, and Tim Drake are up there too.

10. I have a FEW: Donna Troy, Cassie Sandsmark, Duke Thomas, Carrie Kelly, and I’m definitely missing some but that’s what I’m thinking of rn.

11. Okay so the college thing I believe is a fanon thing, but I love it. She is a psychologist or psychiatrist (can’t remember which rn), though her license has probably been revoked several times over by now. She did leave the joker, and has an amazing girlfriend (Poison Ivy) now. She and Batman aren’t friends-friends, but they aren’t particularly enemies either. Fanon will fluctuate with that though. Take your pick!

12. Yes!! The secret Batfamily stuff is a non-canon compliant fanon trope (that I do love to read and see, but don’t want in canon)

13. Depends on who you ask. Truly. He has done some bad stuff to his kids in the comics, but that’s what happens when hundreds of writers and artists all give their own take on the character, over now almost 100 years. I personally prefer Good Dad Batman, and tenddddd to choose to ignore the terrible things he did in canon on occasion. Others don’t, and that’s okay.

(Also for the Jason Todd anon: literally just WFA for free)

Hi! i hope you got done what you needed to get done nad have been having a good day :)

anyway, omg thanks for clearing up some confusion, would love to hear your 'personal canon' is that like a collection of headcanons or fanon or is it a bunch of small canons that fit together? sorry if this doesn't make sense. Is it, like, something you have it nailed down or do you see something, think, 'oh thats neat' and add it to your collection?

[royboyfanpage]

just saw your reply the ask about jayroy, and honestly i just want to let you know that you're amazing! in this fandom specifically (i'm guessing as a sort of pushback to the rampant fanonisation), there's a lot of "if you like this you are objectively incorrect and wrong" and as someone who started with wfa, it's a little bit sad.

so all this to say that i really, really appreciate your answer. to me you are one of the bigger dc comics blogs on tumblr (like mysterycitrus, blackbatcass, etc) and it was just really nice to see you not being pissed about jayroy. i do not ship jayroy (can't stand rhato lol) but i really admire the way you answered that ask!! so thank you so much

Anon you are so sweet thank you so much <33

I'll admit that the fanonisation does bug me sometimes (particularly when it's reducing characters to their relationships with the Bats), but it's still not my business how people choose to engage with DC. The point is having fun, and it's easy for me to filter out things I don't wanna see. Plus, Roy's a character who's existed for over 80 years- there's a million and one different ways to interpret him, and claiming that my interpretation is the only right one would... well, wrong. So I'm not gonna get pissed about who people ship him with because just because MY version of Roy wouldn't work with Jayroy doesn't mean everyone's version wouldn't!

I'm definitely not as big a blog as some people credit me as haha, but mysterycitrus and blackbatcass are both incredible bloggers and being compared to them has made my week !!

[gilverrwrites]

Comic inspiration anon here again :) I think I read a few of your works, got super woahed and tunnelvisioned and didn't think about how big the list would become considering how much you write.

I'm most curious about DC characters, bruce, jason, slade, and such :) just a top 10 dc comics would also be very insightful. Thank you so much.

Bruce Wayne

Ngl, I’m heavily inspired by The Arkham Games and BTAS

Less so, due to its newness, but Batman: Caped Crusader was top notch and definitely has wormed it’s way in there too.  

But comics wise, Batman (the 1987-92) is like my basis for comics cause I got a bunch of them for cheap at a car-boot sale as a kid and that’s where it really began for me.

Batman Eternal 2014-15 and Batman and Robin Eternal 2015-16

Hush 2003

His limited appearances in Catwoman (1993-01) and Justice League America (1989-92). I wouldn’t seek these out just for Batman, but they’re good reads.

When I’m channelling his softer side, Wayne Family Adventures

I don’t love Tamaki’s writing (various Detective Comics from 2020-2022) but Dan Mora pencilled a lot of them, and by god does Mora feed us good art. Mora Batman is the image I tend to have in my head when writing.

Extension Batman/Superman: World’s Finest (2022), Mora art, and Waid writing (which is better but not peak- Still very fun, would recommend to anyone, new or old to comics).  

Vocally I’m always imagining Kevin Conroy.

I have a lot of issues with The New 52, but overall I did like The New 52 Adventures of Batman (AKA Batman 2011-16). You should read both the 1988 Death in the Family and 2012 “The Joker” Death of The Family for Bruce and Jason.

But like, there are thousands and thousands of Batman comics and related media out in the world, these are just the ones I’ve picked up that have left a mark on me. What I’m channelling when I write him could be so far removed from somebody else’s, and we’d both be valid even if our portrayals vary vastly.

Jason, we don’t get the luxury of being so picky with because he doesn’t have nearly as much content, and most of it isn’t great. (That doesn’t mean people can’t have opposing opinions/ideas of him and still both be correct though)

Jason Todd

Personally, I’d skip his pre-crisis, Ginger Dick Grayson story line from 1983. Go straight to Batman 408-411, then 416, 422-429 (1987-1988), for pre-death Jason. (I don’t think this is pivotal reading to enjoy him as a character, but they’re there if you want every piece of Jason content you can consume.

Read Under the Hood 2005-06

Then watch Batman: Under the Red Hood 2010

You can also read Batman: Under the Red Hood 2011 (standalone) if you’d like, but I don’t recall it adding a whole lot more to the story.

I’d re-recommend Batman Eternal and Batman and Robin Eternal too.

Then you’ve got Red Hood and the Outlaws (2012-15), Red Hood and Arsenal (2015-16), Red Hood & The Outlaws (2016-18), and Red Hood: Outlaw (2018-20). All four series are very up and down, they have good and bad too them, but over all they all fall a little flat. That said, they are where I draw most of my inspo from. In particular, Red Hood and Arsenal and Red Hood: Outlaw.

There’s also Red Hood: Outlaws (2022-23), which gets more slack than it deserves, but again isn’t great. It does offer some good insight into his morality.

And all of the above feed us good drips into his and Bruce’s relationship.

Again, WFA for softy Jason.

I only think of Batman: Arkham Knight when I’m writing for AK!Jason, but vocally I’m always imagining Troy Baker.

I know I said his appearances are limited in comparison to Big B, but there is still a lot more Jason out there, but these are the pieces I think of most when I’m writing him.

Slade Wilson I've answered already here.

I'm gonna be honest though, if you really want a list of my personal top DC comics I'll give it, but they're all very villain centric, and aren't anything great in the grand scheme lol, they just hit my specific interests on the nail.

[kindlingkeen]

Do you have any suggestions on what to read/watch/look at or whatever to get a better grasp on Jason’s character? I’m in the middle of writing a fic or two and the more accurate I can be the better. I’ve seen the under the red hood movie, WFA, and random panels from various comics as well as whatever tumblr posts about him + a hell of a lot of fics.

Bonus points if there’s also things to give me a glimpse on how he interacts w various batfam members

Hi, anon! Thanks for the ask. This is a really interesting question. I’ve been chewing over it the last couple of days trying to decide how to answer it.

Accuracy is a hard concept to apply, because Jason has been written, rewritten, overwritten, etc., so many times over the last few decades. Consistent characterization is pretty much a pipe dream. In particular, the more recent runs (esp new 52 rhato) portray Jason in a vastly different way than the more villainous comics that came after the Under the Hood arc.

Between fics, WFA, and UtRH, it sounds like you probably already have a decent idea of the possibilities of Jason’s character. WFA and UtRH, in particular, are pretty far apart.

IMO, the bedrock of Jason/Red Hood’s character is formed by three comic arcs: A Death in the Family, Lost Days (ignore the last pages of part 6, bleck), and Under the Hood. I honestly don’t even know how much of this is still considered canon anymore, but to me, it’s ground truth when it comes to Jason.

Jason interacting with the batfamily is harder for me to pin down (especially with my haphazard approach to reading the comics). In the rhato Annual #1, Nightwing teams up with the outlaws to go undercover at a circus. In Batman Vol. 3 #16, there’s a fun scene at a Batburger with most of batfam. Task Force Z #8 has Jason interacting with Babs, Dick, Tim and Cass while their mission goals are at odds. These three comics all have panels I’ve come back to multiple times when thinking about Jay’s character. I’m sure there’s more examples out there, though (please comment or reblog to share with class if you have thoughts and opinions!).

Hope this was helpful, anon. Thanks again for the ask! 💙

[zeroducks-2]

(newbie anon) thank you so much for the answer!! i will most definitely scroll through the tags you pointed out, just like you advised later after work! i did read and just finished the slade in tt03 meta that you linked, though.

i wanted to say, i agree completely with what you said in it by the way. while i am new to the comics, i did watch some of the animations series as i grew up, including tt03. i remember being creeped out and scared whenever he showed up on screen, and the fear that he ignited was not the kind of dramatic “oh noo he is gonna try to kill the good guys!!”, but it was the kind of fear that i/most people get when watching a horror-ghost movie, and i just wanted to run and get away from it.

also, while following the series, at one point i began to wonder “is it just me or slade is so obsessed with robin, in a very weird and creepy way..” but i was a teen back then, didnt have much/any critical reading therefore didnt catch the sexual subtexts/undertones of his actions.

anyway, for now, i only have one question, which is that: what is your reading/take on dick’s character? i was a marvel comics fan, so i understand the inconsistencies of characterization in comics, especially when you add the reboots etc into it. it’s basically a contradiction all over, multiple readings/characterizations based on which canon that you pick. but there must be a consistency in the writing from their initial creation (especially for character as old as dick, during classic era) to the current era.

(and for me, i judge & shape my reading based on that. what characterization did they have initially—from the classic era, and which stay consistent to that purpose)

ahh sorry this got very long :”) thank you so much for your answer once again!

Hello again, sorry it took me a while to get back to you. You ask a difficult question and I had to think about it a lot (then RL also got in the way you know how it is), and to be honest I'm still not sure how to answer!

Dick has been written in so many different ways that I can't pinpoint a constant. I read him as the first child of an abusive guardian, who can't really ever break free of the trauma bonding. I also read him as extremely parentified and in charge of the emotional well-being of his family, and of having shoulders broad enough to carry it (unfortunately for him). Surely I prefer when he's written as empathetic and emotionally intelligent rather than when he broods and acts brash, but that really changes according to who's handling him at the moment in the "canon continuity", or in any given DC byproduct like the videogames, WFA or an animated movie.

My main thing with Dick is that I associate him with emotional vulnerability, selflessness, hope, and the strength to keep going despite everything. As toxic as their relationship tends to be, Dick was the light of hope for Bruce and allowed him to keep going and find something worth fighting for. He chose the name Nightwing after a Kryptonian hero and then decided to become a beacon of hope for Bludhaven, a city so full of violence it was even worse than Gotham. He's a symbol among vigilantes and heroes alike and I guess he's a symbol for the DC fandom as well in a way.

My take on Dick is also that he's destined to never truly be happy unless everyone around him is happy, but this will never happen because the moment he manages to make everyone happy, he leaves to find another situation like that. This is because being a vigilante in DC comics is a sysiphean task - Jason can never go past his trauma of dying and having been unavenged, Damian can never free himself from the shackles of his heritage, Bruce can never stop being Batman because the same villains will keep haunting Gotham, and he will never elaborate the loss of his parents. Dick can never stop looking for the happiness and carefreeness he had from when he was a circus kid, unable to find his own center and inner peace, and so he will keep guiding young and old heroes on their paths without ever truly reaching his personal happiness and fulfillment.

I'm not sure this was the answer you were hoping to get, sorry if I went on a bit of a tirade. Again welcome to the fandom!

[celaenaeiln]

Thanks for answering my questions previously!! I saw that you're not a big fan of fanon batfam and I've been wondering if you consider the batfamily: wayne adventures webtoon canon or fanon?

Someone told me that batman fans aren't happy about the WFA, but have recently accepted it over the Gotham War. Also I feel like WFA is one of the main causes of an influx of fanon fans(? If that makes sense)

WFA is fanon. It was meant to be a fun past time that DC decided to purchase under their name because it has characters they created which means they have copyright claims to it. Also webtoons in general are all fan-made so it's not something that should be taken seriously in the first place.

However here's where it gets confusing. WFA is fanon, but the characterization of the characters is not too far off. Like yes, all of them are way too happy to be truthful to the comics but also it's written that way on purpose because thats the intent.

Another anon asked me about this a long time ago but I've been holding off on it because I don't even know my own feelings about it! I've been religiously avoiding reading it because it mixes canon characterization and fanon in such a perfect way that it's hard to decipher what's true and what's not.

But because it's not canon, I can't use it to back up an argument or explain something because technically it's just digital fanfic that was acquired by DC due to copywriting and business profits.

About influx of fans from WFA - mixed feelings on that as well. You can't really help how you enter a fandom, it's just different and unqiue and it depends on what was going on at the time you entered the fandom. But also when you enter the fandom, you have certain expectations of characters because of what you saw of them them before you entered.

And that's...complicated. I guess I feel like it shouldn't be a problem if people understand that things in canon are different and shouldn't be fought against because it's not like how it's portrayed in fanon or WFA. And I think most people do get that but there's also some people who made some comments about how the Gotham War was terrible writing because the batfamily was fighting and that's not right. A comic shouldn't be judged on how many good feelings it provokes, it should be judged on character portrayal, plot events, character interaction, and excitement. And what Bruce is doing sucks but it makes sense because he's in the middle of a downward spiral. His struggle is way out of control and that's the whole point of the Gotham War. It's well-written for all the above mentioned things even if it isn't the happiest of storylines. But at the same time, I struggle to remember any batman arc that's happy. Hasn't been that way for decades unfortunately.

I'm really confused over WFA so I haven't said anything about it so far because I can't write about something I don't know. I refuse to read it because I just spent years decoding my brain from fanon nonsense and WFA mixes fanon and canon characterization in a way that regresses that effort. So the best I can say for people who enjoy WFA or are coming in through it is, enjoy the webtoon but also have fun exploring the canon comics. They're really great :)

[on-leatheredwings]

hiya same anon who just went on a massive rant <3

i forgot to ask, what’s wfa personalities??

hi <3

OHHH wfa = wayne family adventures.

it's an episodic webtoon you can find here, it is EXTREMELY popular. like, both with the fandom , but its popular to the point where ppl who dont read/watch/play batman media read it

by wfa personalities i mean how the batfam acts and is characterized in them

so lowkey (highkey) everyones p flanderized but idgaf its fun and cute and i like seeing them act like a family. i try not to read it toooo much bc i dont want it to influence how i write the batfam but also WELL.... I THINK ITS FUN AND CUTE AND IF YOU WANNA WRITE THEM LIKE THIS WHO EVEN CARES ATP....