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redeclipsee · 1 month ago

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This is just going to be a little rant about Galadriel, Haladriel, Celeborn and other thingies I've seen discourse about lately. And this is by no means discrediting people's opinions. I just wanted to talk about it lol

I've always been pro-ship. Ship whatever the hell you want. "Problematic" ships, morally wrong ships, just whatever. As long as you're not being an asshole to other people.

Which led me to Haladriel. Haladriel is easily the most popular ship of the show, and with the end of S2, I've seen people attacking the ship, but I've seen more people demanding for Haladriel to become "canon" and absolutely shitting on other characters, plots and fans who enjoy other parts of the show that don't revolve around the ship. And it's quite embarrassing.

In the show, Sauron and Galadriel are foil characters to each other. I don't think hoping for them to face each other each season is unrealistic or even bad. In fact, it's expected. Whenever Sauron chooses darkness, Galadriel will choose light. It's a dance with those characters.

BUT demanding the romantic ship to become canon and being mean to everyone who says otherwise is bad. You don't need canon to ship them or read them as romantic (because let's be real, the show left it to interpretation, and it's fantastic). Sauron and Galadriel being canon makes absolutely no sense with the lore, the world and the characters. We already know what the characters end up like, so being childish because they won't kiss is embarrassing.

Which leads me to some people hating the character Celeborn. We haven't even seen him in the show and yet, top 5 hated characters. I've seen more people attacking people who want Celeborn and Celeborn and Galadriel giving the most absolute insane takes; "he's boring", "you want Galadriel to be a tradwife", "you just hate Haladriel shippers“, among others. Which all of them are insane. How can you say he’s boring when we haven’t even seen him on the show? Galadriel can be happy, have a loving husband and be badass, be for real. And well, people can ship whatever. If people like Celedriel more than Haladriel is their right? Just as people can dislike Celedriel and like Haladriel, just be kind to each other idk.

SAURON & GALADRIEL

For me, there was a little romance between Galadriel and Sauron on S1. I think Sauron fell in love with her light and her power. I think Galadriel fell in love with the understanding that Halbrand gave her that she couldn’t find in anyone else, her “darkside” was understood. But Sauron’s idea of love can’t be anything but twisted and Galadriel could never really love Sauron. So yes, for me, there was love, but it was twisted.

Sauron is obsessed with her light. He wanted her power just as he wanted Celebrimbor’s art. And he won’t ever renounce it, so he’ll chace it and tempt her at every occasion he can, because he wants her light. Sauron, who thinks he needs to control everyone on Middle Earth to “heal” it, naturally has an obsession with the Lady of Light.

But that’s all there is. Because Galadriel could never truly love Sauron even when he’s the only one that could understand her darkest desires the most.

GALADRIEL'S JOURNEY

I’ve seen people saying that her speech of “all peoples of Middle Earth will always resist you” is bad because it makes Galadriel abandon her personal goal of hunting Sauron for the greater good, not allowing a woman to have her own agency and advocating for everyone else. And well, I would agree if we weren’t talking about a Tolkien adaptation.

S1 Galadriel is galloping alone. No one believes her, no one understands her, and she can’t stop her quest. She’s prideful and selfish to an extent, and it’s her choices alone, her own internal desire to bring Sauron down that, unaware, brings him back to Middle Earth. She fucks up monumentally.

S2 Galadriel is about the consequences of her actions, but also, realizing she’s not alone. Her letting go of Finrod's dagger at the end of S1 was a beautiful way of letting go of her quest. Gil-Galad and Galadriel’s relationship in S2 shines because Gil-Galad is harsh on her as much as he believes in her, and he tells her that. S2 Galadriel has no company and has to deal with the tables turned around by being part of Elrond’s company. Elrond, who was also acting stubborn like a mule and refused to listen to anyone (just like her S1 self). S2 Galadriel is about her finding that she’s not alone and that Finrod’s quest is over, and it’s time to fight for Middle Earth, all of it.

Going forward is about her becoming the Lady of Light that we know in Lord of the Rings. And yes, she’ll always have a darkside, she’ll always be prideful and ambitious, and I’m so excited to see hints of that in the upcoming seasons, but I don't think saying her putting aside her personal and prideful quest is bad is fair to the story the show is trying to tell. This is Tolkien, and it makes complete sense for it to be like that.

So yeah, in resume… I love Haladriel, but I don’t want them to ever be canon. I can’t wait for Celeborn to show up, and I can’t wait to see how the show develops Galadriel’s journey in the upcoming seasons! Just remember to be kind to other people, even if they don’t like your ships.

#the rings of power #trop #galadriel #text #just rambling #twitter is too uncomfortable to vent like this

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apoloadonisandnarcissus · 2 months ago

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“Rings of Power” 2x08 is tomorrow, and here are some questions (or rather plot holes the size of black holes) I hope to see explained at the finale:

Joe Doe: What did the corpse that arrived at Eregion, in 2x06, truly said? Because a simple “Where is He?” doesn’t explain Sauron’s distressed reaction to it, especially since he’s the one who told Adar that “Sauron was in Eregion” chilling with the Elves.

Houdini Gil-galad: When Elrond arrives at Eregion, Gil-galad is by his side as they start the battle. Yet, when Elrond is charging into Adar, Gil-galad just magically disappears and is nowhere to be seen? What happened there? Where did he go? Because this scene appears to be in a sequence. Is there a explanation for this or...?

Agressive Negotiation Tactics: Why wasn’t Gil-galad with Elrond during their meeting with Adar? Sure, Elrond is the commander of the army, but Gil-galad is the High King of the Noldor. Shouldn’t he be the one making negotiations and striking deals, here? Does Gil-galad truly has this much trust in Elrond he’s willingly to surrender his power as king to him during a discussion of battle terms? Sure, Adar only brought up Nenya in exchange for Galadriel’s life. But how could they know that? Adar could literally have talked about anything else; terms, surrender, whatever. And Gil-galad didn’t seem too concerned with the possibility of being killed by Orcs at the battlefield... Then, why is Elrond the one making decisions here?

"Adar kind of forgot": Why didn’t Adar take or even checked if Elrond had Nenya in the tent scene, and waited until the very end to do it? Was it for dramatic effect or something else? Because Adar’s goal is to destroy Sauron, and his theory is that he needs Nenya and Morgoth’s crown in order to do that. He doesn’t care about Eregion; if he had both, he could go and chase after Sauron, immediately, instead of losing any more time and getting more Orcs killed. We’ve already seen how consumed Adar is by finding and killing Sauron. He could have taken Nenya right there, with only Vorohil to stop him. Instead, he just allowed Elrond to walk away and risk him getting killed during the battle, or even losing the freaking ring? What assurance did Adar had that he would find Elrond alive in the middle of that hell? He’s just a corrupted Elf, he doesn’t have special powers or anything like that.

He's Just Not That Into You: Sauron has been obsessing over Galadriel for the entire season (even in the middle of his "rings of power" masterplan), and yet we, the audience, were shown no reaction from him at her being trapped inside of a freaking cage and bled by an Orc spear. We are told he wants her to be his queen, that she’s a part of his plan and “even really loves her”, and yet he doesn’t care? He’s a control freak and a perfectionist on steroids, but just assumes Elrond will be able to handle negotiations with Adar? What assurance does he have these dealings won’t go south and Adar ends up killing Galadriel afterwards, leaving him with no queen at all? This makes it seem as if Sauron asking Galadriel to join him and be his queen, is an afterthought on his part: “Hey, good thing you didn’t die! Do you want to be my queen, by the way? I'm in need of one!”

Dumb and Dumber: Why is Sauron screaming at the top of the forge tower, searching for the Nine and alerting everyone to his presence there? He’s always two steps ahead of everyone, and yet he just assumes that Celebrimbor hide them there? And it doesn’t cross his mind that Celebrimbor might have smuggled them out? And how long has he been searching? Because Celebrimbor and Galadriel have a long-ass conversation in the meantime.

Yeah, I don't really care about the other plots.

#trop season 2 #rop s2 #the rings of power s2 #rings of power s2 #galadriel #sauron #adar #adar rings of power #adar rop #elrond rings of power #elrond #elrond rop #gil galad #annatar #saurondriel #haladriel #sauron x galadriel #galadriel x sauron #rings of power

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mai-komagata · 1 month ago

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re: sexy stabbings

im writing this very long meta on how galadriel x sauron and silvergifting dynamics help an audience recognize different forms of seduction in a relatable way (including queer forms of seduction, which audiences are normally blind to), and how recognizing these ships isn't about "crack shipping" but about the text using the language of sexuality/eroticism/seduction to convey concepts that would otherwise be vague and not-understandable like temptation to a metal object or wounds that cannot heal or possession by an alien being as well as concept of "men in a fantasy/magical/superhero setting are not just power levels" -- ie. the strongest man should always win. Galadriel is *integral* to this because most characters in tolkien are male and audiences are pre-disposed to ignoring emotional dynamics in men other than anger and violence -- the contrast with a female romance lets an audience be like "these people, adar, galadriel, celebrimbor are more alike than distinct". (wow maybe i don't need to write it, anymore!). But since that is taking me very long to write and i keep running into queer-erasure every day i'll just say this: the reason we don't see Sauron torture Galadriel in the same way she tortures Celebrimbor is not because his relationship with them is cosmically different (obviously its different bc they are different people). Galadriel is not more "pure" or "loved" than Celebrimbor. Neither is blameless (i.e. both were ambitious) and neither is deserving of torture (nobody deserves that, even Sauron). It's because there is different symbolism to the way they are being hurt. Arrows being used as martyrdom is a millennia old way of showing homosexuality. Stabbing is metaphorical of penetration. He intended to kill both of them for denying them the Nine. Because Sauron is bad at impulse control, he takes and believes he is wiser than he is. If he wants something he will take it and then regret that he broke his favorite thing. (note he doesn't regret killing other people he doesn't twistedly love, like mirdania, or the orcs).

Galadriel had Nenya (i.e. Celebrimbor's magic, untouched by sauron) and Elrond was able to save her (love and light win the day). Celebrimbor died as symbolic for what happened to Eregion (he was alone and eregion fell).

This doesn't mean BOTH scenes aren't meant to be erotic. The stabbing is hot and the caressing of the arrows are hot. But they are hot in a BDSM/noncon way. "Do you understand what it's like to be tortured by a god?" sorta way.

Pragmatically, though, the reason we don't see more graphic galadriel is because it would make audiences uncomfortable. You can be way more graphic with gay shit and people won't be squicked than if you are graphic with m/f abuse. As i said, a good 50-70% of the audience won't even NOTICE the gay shit and think its just standard fantasy violence. The closer you make it to outright rape, the less compelling it is, because Sauron needs to both be APPEALING and EVIL in order to understand why people are drawn to the rings of power and why it is essential to oppose it.

[disclaimer: this is not anti galadriel x sauron, it is just in favor of seeing the ship in a dark way as part of the larger narrative. When I talk about shipping them in a dark way i don't mean simply its my kink, i mean this is a dark seduction story at heart. The actors are very hot, their acting is very sexy, but the function in the larger story is to display the different ways sauron tempts and corrupts people, including galadriel, celebrimbor, adar, and how sauron himself was corrupted by melkor].

#sauron #celebrimbor #galadriel #halbrand #silvergifting #the rings of power #trop #rop #trop meta #dark saurondriel #multishipping discourse #queer erasure #shipping can be textual interpretation #shipping can be sexy #its not *all* crack #some things are intentionally there

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ailendolin · 2 months ago

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Live Reaction to TRoP 2x06

I have a feeling there will be no Elrond in this episode and my inner Durin is already crying over it

but my boy Arondir is here so that is good

probably not for the orcs, though

yep, told you so. Don't mess with Arondir. The way he sheathed his sword at the end? Absolute badass

oh that's Eregion on the map. Let's see if Arondir will make it there since no one else ever seems to manage to

I don't suppose that's a good sign there's a (admittedly cute) mouse in the forge

oh Celebrimbor is deteriorating so quickly. I just want to give him a hug and yeet Annatar off that tower

is this the episode where he will throw the hammer at Annatar? Ngl I am looking forward to that

the gentle music when Annatar is pretending to be understanding is making me so emotional because Calebrimbor needs comfort so badly and Annatar knows exactly what chords to play to make him think he is getting it

oh Valar, he is so tired. Someone get him out of there and please let him rest. Fuck, this episode is going to break my heart, isn't it?

I am LOVING the elves in uniform! Look at them! The way the colours blend together on their armour is so pretty

Malendol my beloved! Please join Camnir, Vorohil and Rían in my little collection of favourite minor characters who we will probably never see again (or, Valar forbid, see getting killed off)

omg he is so pretty and his voice! Aaaaah!

(this has nothing to with the episode but I am already seeing myself shipping him with Camnir for no other reason than that I love them both. This is not good. I need to stop getting attached to one-off characters)

Mirdania, I'm sorry, but you are grating on my nerves a little here

I'm loving the foreboding music when Annatar takes her hand

did you see the banners in the background? I want one of them and am once again asking Amazon: where the merch?

ah it's time for the Adar & Galadriel dinner scene. I didn't watch the clip that was released but I know people were screaming about it so this is going to be interesting

lol I see Adar is pulling no punches here and calling Galadriel out on her obsession with Sauron immediately. Good for him. Elrond would like you

Sauron promised her an army? Gal, love, he wanted to make you his queen

"Children." Nooooo what? Adar only ever wanted to be a dad. I'm crying

but oh this is so clever of him when he says Sauron's lies which must be extinguished becuase one thing I've loved about the show's portrayal of Sauron in season 1 is that he didn't lie to Galadriel. She was the one who constantly put words in his mouth

yes let the exes unionise!

oh he's got the stabby crown!

"The fate of that city now rests on your ability to put aside your pride." Yep, Eregion is doomed

Elendil! Everyone's adopted dad's not having a good time right now

clever, Pharazon. But Elendil will never renounce Miriel

YES, I told you he wouldn't! Fuck you, Pharazon, that man loves his queen and will never serve you

Lol. "Snoring? Who's snoring?" Tom, I love you, but you are not good at giving pep talks

Poppy and Merimac :)

omg that's a long time to decide on a name. What were his parents thinking?

I repeat: Poppy and Merimac :) That kiss was so sweet

and look, Tom, Poppy is great at pep talks. That's how you do it

okay we're going staff finding. Is it ridiculous that for a moment I thought he might get his staff from the Stoor tree?

omg you're not throwing the Gandalf quote in there without warning, are you? My poor heart can't take all these emotions. It's such a beautiful quote and I guess this is one more argument in favour of the "The Stranger is Gandalf" theory?

Khazad-Dûm my beloved

look at all that gold. I'm getting Erebor flashbacks (flashforwards?) here, and not in a good way

Annatar, get the fuck away from Durin, I swear. Where the hell is Elrond? He would feed you to the Balrog in a heartbeat

"More precious?" Do not use that fucking word

oh, the answer is no? That's a surprise. I bet there's a catch

noooo, not the fucking Balrog in the flames. He's going to wake him up, I know it. Just look at his smug, little face

ah, there's the catch. Poor Durin

"No, you belong to it." Truer words have never been spoken

I see Durin is faring as well as Elrond when it comes to convincing loved ones that the rings are dangerous. They are truly besties even in that

oh no, he's crying. My heart. He's stuck in such an awful situation and I am so glad he and Disa are uniting over it instead of letting it drive them apart as well

those trumpets sound gorgeous

ah, Earien is beginning to learn that actions have consequences. Good. Her relationship to her father is so complicated. It feels as if they're always talking at each other, not to each other. And yet you can see how much they love each other in every painful interactions

Forehead touch! This is not a drill!

YES DISA! Show them! Oh I love her so much. Her secret weapon is bats! I wrote my PhD about bats and they have a very special place in my heart so go, Disa, I am rooting for you and your bats!

"I love you." The moment we were all Durin

of course MIriel is going to face judgement in Elendil's place. Those two love each other so much without ever saying those words and I'm so here for it

she is cradling his face. I can't

and have I mentioned how fucking brave she is? Imagine facing that sea monster and not even being able to see it coming?

damn but this is shot absolutely beautifully

please let her gain a new pet sea monster that is going to swallow Pharazon and Kemen for breakfast

fuck yes, "Hail Tar-Miriel, Queen of the Sea!"

i love the cracking reality effect of the Palantir

so Adar knows Elrond has Nenya now. That's going to have consequences, isn't it? Will he try to capture Elrond to get the ring so he can defeat Sauron?

okay, Adar came prepared. Good for him. Bad for Celebrimbor and Eregion

Glûg my beloved! I have missed you! Please don't get yourself killed in the siege

oh that call to war is epic

Malendol! Aaaaaah another glimpse of him! I am so smitten it's ridiculous

aaaaand the Siege of Eregion is on

aw no, don't destroy your sketches, Celebrimbor

omg Annatar is such a little shit. "How fares your progress?" That smile, I can't

ooooh fuck, Celebrimbor fighting back? Physically? YES!

oh no, it's a vision. This is so fucking cruel. Look how relieved he is that his people are well. This is also a reminder to us viewers how much life will be lost in the coming episodes. That this was a place of happiness, once

fuck, there's the hammer

and mithril ore? Are you kidding me?

the oath. And the thing is, he is right. It will be all about the rings

and there's that word again. Precious. It is haunting the narrative and I love that it is being used for all the rings because they are all, one way or another, a product of Sauron's mind

"Best Feanor himself." Celebrimbor, why don't you use that hammer and smack Sauron back to Mordor? Please?

and the illusion stops. The fact that Celebrimbor doesn't even know what time of day it is ... my heart hurts

also the fact that the last peaceful moment of Eregion we saw was a lie? That the last moment it gleamed in sunlight was nothing but a cruel trick?

*insert gif of Theoden* So it begins

the end credit music is making me sad. Who gave Bear McCreary the right?

seriously though, Charlie E deserves all the awards. His Celebrimbor is so heart-breakingly kind and so heart-breakingly flawed at the same time and I just want to wrap him up in a blanket and hug him

two more episodes. Valar give us strength for what is to come

#the rings of power #trop #trop spoilers #rings of power #rings of power spoilers #lin reacts

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theivorybilledwoodpecker · 4 months ago

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Sauron: Honey, where are the elven rings?

Celebrimbor: What?

Sauron: Where are the elven rings?

Celebrimbor: I put them away!

Sauron: Where?

Celebrimbor: Why do you need to know?

Sauron: I need them!

Celebrimbor: Don't you be thinking about running off to conquer Middle Earth! We've been planning this dinner for two months!

Sauron: My plan is in danger!

Celebrimbor: My evening's in danger!

Sauron: Tell me where those rings are! We are talking about the greater good!

Celebrimbor: Greater good? I am your husband! I am the greatest good you are ever going to get!

(Sorry. I had to do this )

#Sauron #celebrimbor #lord of the rings #Rings of power #incorrect quotes #source: the incredibles

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celebrimborium · 25 days ago

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some musings about character dynamics going forward (and s2 introspective)

This is a long post because I have a lot of thoughts about this.

For the record: I did like S2 a lot. But I want to specifically talk about character relationships and dynamics which is one department where it was lacking in comparison to S1 imo (with the notable exception of Sauron/Celebrimbor). I find it interesting that S2 has been praised by some demographics and corners of the internet that hated on S1 and I do worry about what that might mean for the direction of the show but I'd rather focus on the storytelling. So let's go into that a little bit.

Season 1 vs. Season 2

The writers were clearly cooking something in S1 with all the different interactions: Elrond/Durin, Elrond/Galadriel, Galadriel/Sauron, Nori/Gandalf, Nori/Poppy, Míriel/Galadriel, Arondir/Bronwyn (RIP), Elendil/Isildur etc. It's what I loved most about the show. So many colours of friendship, mentorship, adversity, bonding. S2 gave us that with Sauron/Celebrimbor in a very twisted version and, to a lesser extent, Míriel/Elendil with chaste romantic implications. The rest was more surface level or under-written (including Valandil's exit and his quasi-parental relationship with Elendil or Kemen and his relationship with Pharazôn and so many other dynamics that needed time to breathe, although what we got there was good, don't get me wrong; and Durin III/Durin IV were the parental exception here, continuing their strong fraught father-son dynamic, the best scene of which is still the one in S1 where he strips him off his rank imo but the S2 finale coming in a close second). But back to the main point, I found this most egregious with Elrond and Galadriel where I liked the resolution and the basic tenets of the conflict but don't think they nailed the tone of their exchanges except perhaps in the boat workshop and then in Robert's brilliant silent acting in the finale.

Elrond and Durin? Leaned heavily on the groundwork from S1 because they got one measly little scene and that despite canon (= the totality of Tolkien's written works) actually providing the writers with a very clear narrative template in this case, with the Dwarves securing Elrond's retreat from battle, something that I expected to be one of the defining emotional and epic moments of the show after S1. Instead it barely received any attention. I don't mind the twist of not arriving in time but having Durin not come at all very much felt like sacrificing character for the sake of subverting expectations.

Sometimes you do have to cash in on the groundwork you have laid and they did the opposite with essentially all of the non-familial relationships that had a lot of strong foundation-building in S1, only to find them borderline abandoned in S2. Payne & McKay had a line in their House of R podcast interview which gives me pause, where they said that they prefer switching up character pairings and it sounded more like a creative writing exercise than something strictly speaking dictated by the organic flow of things, although I like them so I will assume they meant the latter. By all means, do switch up character pairings – I for one can't wait for Galadriel and Gandalf to meet up! – but don't do it just for the sake of it. Don't fix what ain't broken and in the process, break the things that do work.

The Sauron/Celebrimbor scenes were excellently written and acted and even they felt truncated and in fact would surely have been even more impactful if we had seen more of Halbrand/Celebrimbor becoming buddies in S1. As it was, it felt more like an office romance with a psycho co-worker gone wrong than a betrayal of a genuine friend and it speaks to the strength of the actors that it still worked; but due to the distribution of storylines and narrative attention, it did feel (in this case and in other cases) like the writers did not tap into some of the deeper wells that they easily could have (if just given slightly more time or making different choices about the breadth of the storytelling). There are no shortcuts with character interactions, you have to keep building them and you have to focus on these connections and how they shape the actions of the characters.

Characters like Gil-galad who's been very much on the backburner for two (!) seasons now can't just be elevated to protagonist status out of nowhere in S3. I mean, I very much hope it happens, and different characters should get the spotlight at different times, but S1 managed its ensemble well and you had multiple meaningful, deep relationships (from scratch) and I don't understand how S2 failed to capitalize on that. It were mainly the new connections that popped. Sauron/Celebrimbor, Elrond/Círdan... but why not tap into the S1 relationships? We got good continuation with Durin/Durin, Durin/Disa and Míriel/Elendil, so close (quasi-)familial relationships basically where characters stayed close together geographically. That obviously makes sense. But travel isn't a real impediment on the show, to the point where some people complain about the logistics of it (which I personally don't care much about but distances shouldn't be arbitrary, of course, and ideally inform character interactions; so I enjoyed the Dwarves figuring into the Eregion storyline more strongly due to the proximity). And in any case, Elrond and Durin IV did meet, albeit just once, briefly.

If Elrond and Durin had gotten an actual heart-to-heart, like an actual conversation, perhaps even with a cameo from his children or Disa, instead of just a quick "hi and bye", that would have gone such a long way to reframing their experiences during S2 and would have worked as a mirror of their initial S1 setup – meeting again after having missed important events in each others' lives, bringing each other other up to speed, leaning on a friend to gather strength. (I would like to imagine they had that conversation and that it did play a role in Elrond accepting having to use Nenya in the finale – the moment felt earned but I have seen people question Elrond's trajectory and I can't blame them, when so much of it was only explicit at the start of the season. I understand that there was a certain urgency to the situation but you can also have an urgent conversation between them, e.g. as Elrond is already preparing to leave again, having made his request. So many things you could do. Although, to be fair, I don't want to overemphasize this point as it is fairly negligible in the grand scheme of how these arcs were set up for these characters this season.)

Galadriel and Adar meeting again was... okay but somehow also failed to capture what it would actually mean for them to go from animosity to reluctant allies. Galadriel had such a strong aversion to him in their barn scene but then when they meet again, all the tension... is muted? (I did like the very brief kinship over their experiences with Sauron, as well as the scene she had with Celebrimbor where they were allowed to feel a kinship over being victims of his manipulations – excellent scene, but just one scene and with not much to build on in terms of an established Celebrimbor/Galadriel friendship.)

Sauron and Adar not even having a single personal conversation/confrontation before Adar's demise was such a waste as well...? It's all perfectly set up but then... they go for the mirror image instead of an actual confrontation like the one that was teased/promised in episode 6 of S1? (And the promise renewed with the flashback at the start of S2.) The irony of Adar being killed by his own 'children' is not lost on me but surely there was more to it than that. The dynamic between Adar and Sauron, so brilliantly explored in the S2 premiere in the scene where Halbrand is held captive, deserved more realization on the part of Adar (in the moment of his death). This also, in fact, applies to Adar's realization that Halbrand is Sauron. Surely should have been an actual thing on-screen and not off-screen? How do you not seize on such a moment? Even if he suspected earlier, he must have had some moment of final realization and confirmation? If it really was only during his conversation with Galadriel, then what was it that tipped him off? It rather seemed like he already knew. Maybe he knew since ep 6 of S1. But it was crazy that they left his perspective on that unexplored.

The same goes for Mirdania being killed unceremoniously which served its narrative purpose but again prioritized a shock or twist moment (literally, twist of the hand) over centering the perspectives of the characters. It was all set up perfectly for a reveal, horror dawning on her as she realizes what she has done and whom she has served and... we just never got it. Not even from the guards who switch their allegiance back to Celebrimbor without us even getting so much as a reaction shot as they witness the scene between him and Galadriel that may have been enough to sway them. The issue isn't that this happens – the question is whether the show wants us to live with these characters in those moments and inhabit their mental landscapes or not; the more the show allows this, the more immersive it becomes, which, for a fantasy show, is the primary objective (think of the S1 scene where Galadriel enters the ship in Númenor and Isildur and the others stand in awe – there are ways to sketch these surrounding characters of a central interaction without taking too much time... and seeing more of a close-up look at the realization of these guards and their renewed loyalty would surely have heightened the impact of their subsequent murder, as well as, perhaps, clarified the spell they are under and why it allows Sauron to manipulate them more so than those who have not (yet) given themselves to his power.)

Gandalf and Tom Bombadil could have been the beginning of a beautiful friendship but instead the writers very much got it in their head that this had to be Luke on Dagobar training with Yoda (Payne & McKay explicitly state this in several interviews) and then when they realized in the edit that that wasn't working, they cut back on it. Which is fine, but it makes me question where they start developing these dynamics from, having certain situations or moments in their head and wanting to get to those instead of letting the characters themselves drive the story.

S1 was more of a slow burn but they did such a good job setting all these character dynamics up and right when it feels like things should start coalescing in S2, I felt like they were chipping away at their own building blocks instead.

Having said all of that (and I'm sure there's more to say but I'm not one to typically write meta), here's my thoughts on some dynamics that I would like to see explored or established further or that I just have thoughts on in any case:

Galadriel/Sauron

Let's start with the obvious one. I know some people are sick of it, while for others Haladriel is essentially the whole appeal of the show. For me it's neither – I mostly like how it's handled in the show and mostly dislike the discourse surrounding it (especially from the haters but also from the AI-crazed shippers; I know there are sane people on either side of the fence). Their fans got crumbs in S2 to the point that it felt cruel so I have no idea who the show wants to cater to post-S1 (marketing being its own, often misleading thing). It'd be crazy to me if they drop this dynamic altogether though.

Their conflict was personal from the start with the way it was tied to Finrod's death and Galadriel's quest to avenge her brother, but it's now personal for entirely different reasons. Namely her shame and his obsession, the flipside to her initial pride and his indifference (to the fate of any particular person, illustrated by letting the nice old man drown).

Both are rooted in the strange companionship they experienced: He was in her heart and she is on his mind. She would like to forget (how close he got) and he cannot (forget how close he got to a power heightened in the presence of her).

Surely there's still something there to mine. Whether it's them crossing paths as she goes further East to recuperate in what will become Lothlórien and him going on a roadshow to recruit Men for his Nine rings or whatever. Frankly, I want her to go to Lindórinand and start her journey of becoming more powerful in her magic. Sorcerer versus 'witch'? Yes please. Let it be all-out psychological war between them but let it be something.

Galadriel/Gandalf

I know that it seems like they've set up Gandalf for a conflict with the Dark Wizard (whoever he is; they are certainly still trying to be coy for some reason, saying stuff like "I don't see how he could be Saruman" – well, you're the writer, you tell me! lol). I would personally be very much in favor of him crossing paths with Galadriel. I think this is needed at some point and I'd rather they get to it earlier than later. Reason being: His purpose is to defeat Sauron. Her quest has been to defeat Sauron. He has the destiny, she has the drive. They can take baby magic steps together.

I did like the Stranger storyline in S1 but one thing that S2 failed to do, in my opinion, is actually giving Gandalf a strong feeling of who he is and what he is supposed to do, which is ironic given that this was supposedly his season of self-discovery (or at least him choosing his name at the end would imply as much). But really, what has he discovered? The mystics mentioned the name Sauron to him and then Tom Bombadil just laid it all out but do we have any sense of Gandalf actually knowing anything about Sauron beyond him being a vague evil force and feeling some type of way about it beyond his own general good nature?

If not through meeting Galadriel, Gandalf will have to face the consequences of Sauron's actions in some other way and the conflict will have to become more personal. Whether and how Tom Bombadil or the Dark Wizard figure into that is another question but I rather think Gandalf needs to become a person in his own right and not just a chess figure to be moved across a board.

Círdan/Gil-galad

Give them one meaningful interaction. Please, I beg of you. That's all.

Elrond/Míriel

Now, call me crazy but hear me out. I know S3 is probably about establishing Rivendell for Elrond and perhaps being drawn into the Dwarven succession drama. But I'm all for breaking up the isolation of storylines and I really rather want Elrond to make it to Númenor at some point. It's difficult to see how that would work once Sauron is captured and taken there (presumably at the end of S3), so part of me wants him to journey there as the herald of Gil-galad to try and open diplomatic channels and negotiate about the presence of Númenor in Middle-earth (see colonizing efforts by Kemen) as well as an alliance to defeat Sauron. This could then lead into Númenorean forces setting off to Middle-earth instead of a letter calling for help. I know this is rather out there but I want S3 to contain a flashback to Elrond and Elros and I want Elrond to meet Míriel and for her to be encouraged in her faith in the old ways because nothing good is coming for my girl and I want her to have that small comfort. (An Elrond/Elros flashback could also be a S4 opener, if that's the fall of Númenor season, but I rather think such an opener should focus on the people of Númenor while anything with Elros should be more about Elrond imo. There's nothing saying such a flashback couldn't open a S3 episode of Elrond going to Númenor. Doesn't have to be the season opener. For a S3 opener, maybe do a flashback with Gil-galad to the First Age. Or with Morgoth. Either or, for S3 or S5, however it relates best to the themes of those seasons.)

Elendil/Gil-galad

I think this might be something for S4, rather, since Elendil will presumably spend some time in S3 reconnecting with Anárion and perhaps, eventually, Isildur, though if the fall of Númenor is only at the end of S4, then that will only leave S5 to have any relationship between them, since obviously Elendil has to stay until the fall (not ready for the Míriel/Elendil tragedy... especially with his first wife having drowned...). Actually, maybe in the first half of S3 he can reconnect with Anárion and then in the second half through Elrond's arrival (that I'm willing into existence) and secret communications with Míriel learn about what's going down in Middle-earth and become a pen pal of Gil-galad or something. Or maybe they can zoom via palantíri. I have no idea but this is one of those relationships that the show really has to try and build up properly and not just toss in for the last season.

Sauron/Kemen

Time to start recruiting underlings and unlike many, I don't think you have to be cool to qualify for becoming a Ring-wraith. The more pathetic, the better. I wonder if Sauron will pose as the King of the Southlands again and how he will worm his way into the colonies if not through brute force, which he could, having access to Adar's orc armies now. It'll be interesting if he turns his persuasion on the son first and then in S4 on the father. He could also go East to duke it out with the Dark Wizard for a while but maybe that would be for the first half of the season. Whichever way I think about it, I feel like next season really needs to have more episodes and be one of two halves since there's so much for everyone to do, places to go, characters to meet.

Míriel/Eärien

Kinda burying the lede but my biggest disappointment with S2 was the relative lack of female characters and meaningful relationships for those we still retained. That was in part due to Bronwyn's departure but Nori and Poppy also had much less screentime and focus and characters like Míriel were much more tied to male characters unlike in S1. I do like Míriel/Elendil, just saying. They are now parted anyway and I hope we can see Eärien take on an interesting dynamic with Míriel, since she is not without empathy but torn between her allegiances. I foresee a bad end for her but I want her to go out fighting, maybe becoming a spy for the Faithful or in any case redeemed before the end. Unlike Kemen, who will surely not be redeemed and possibly even abandoned by his father to his fate, whatever that might be.

Celeborn

If he shows up, I want him to be a sweetheart. The ultimate wife guy. I have nothing against him or his inclusion, I just struggle to see how we'd have enough time to dedicate to his introduction to make it meaningful enough. And I don't think Galadriel needs a husband to be complete. That would be a bad look. On the other hand, if they handle it well, I wouldn't mind it, because I liked the way she talked about him in S1. But it's all a question of how it's framed narratively. Certainly, if anything, him showing up in her life should not "domesticate" her as some misogynists are hoping but rather empower her to become an even more assured independent figure.

Last Thoughts

I love Durin and Disa and the Dwarven storyline was one of the strongest in S1 and again in S2 (although I felt some redundancy there, but episode 5 handled it excellently, as did episode 8 with the beautiful payoff in the Balrog scene). However, the more I think about it, the more I feel like the Dwarves as well as the Harfoots need to take a backseat in S3. Unfortunately, the Dwarven storyline was the only one explicitly set up with mention of Durin's brother – okay, fine, introduce him if you have to but please do not do that to the detriment of the characters we already have and kind of desperately need to see interacting and growing if this show is to have emotional depth (and it showed in S1 and S2 that it can have that depth). Like, we have to go deeper, not broader. Stop expanding the cast, aside from minor characters who help populate the world and colour in some social white space. I like that we got Círdan this season and his interactions with Elrond were meaningful but since he's not part of the core constellation of the conflicts set up in S1, these types of additions run the risk of being novelty creations, meant to hype or appease lorebros in particular, without necessarily helping to advance the overall emotional arc. Now, it did work with Círdan, not least of all because Ben Daniels did excellent work, and Círdan has a role to play in the War of the Last Alliance, but I am a little apprehensive about the calls to add Celeborn, as mentioned, and Glorfindel. I do want to see the latter but leave it to S4 or S5. Concentrate on (1) Númenor, (2) Sauron's rise in Middle-earth and the opposition to his rise (by Galadriel, Gil-galad, Elrond), (3) Gandalf's mission intersecting with point 2.

That's it. That should be S3. The War of the Elves and Sauron. That's what should be reflected in the character dynamics. I hope we don't get ghost!Celebrimbor haunting Sauron, as I've seen suggested, much as I loved Charles Edwards' performance. An allusion is fine but let's keep it focussed on the living characters and how the events may yet shape their world. If anything, the overwhelmingly positive reaction to Sauron/Celebrimbor should show the showrunners that people are clamoring for juicy character drama and interactions, not necessarily action and battles. Put two compelling characters in a room and let them do their work, you don't need an expensive vfx extravaganza like the barrow-wights scene, you need to serve character and then, like in the Balrog scene, awesome effects can enhance that, but the emotional interest needs to be there and that's the first and arguably most important part. (Although, please, by all means, do continue with the awesome visuals!)

The plot should be exciting, of course, and I think this helped sharpen S2 towards the end with a sense of urgency and momentum that many enjoyed (myself included), but this only works so long as it is grounded in an emotional reality we can recognize amid heightened fantastical settings. I love this world and I love so many of the creative decisions Payne & McKay and the team have taken and I'm sure some restrictions (like the episode number) are somewhat out of their hands but I hope they can refine and remember the vision they had when they started S1 without it fraying at the ends or buckling under the pressure of former haters who don't even make up the majority of the audience nor were ever mature enough to articulate their hate for the storytelling choices in S1 beyond basic sexism/racism and a fundamental misunderstanding of themes that were dear to Tolkien. Adaptations always invite comparison and discussion but at the end of the day, The Rings of Power is a television series and while it does not have to – and in fact should not – bow to every trend and trope constituting what is seen as respectable "gritty" prestige TV, it should, in my opinion, strive to be dark, twisted, wholesome, whatever it wants to be.

Give me unexpected interactions, give me friendship, give me knights and queens and powers and magic, give me loyalty and deceit, light and dark, monsters and men, slow burn and pay off, arcs spanning seasons.

In short: Give me fantasy and give it to me raw. But give it to me like a novel that unfolds page by page, not something chopped up to make room for xyz demand from a focus group. I'm in it for the characters and what is true to them. I hope that center holds. The door for S3 is wide open in many directions for many of the characters, so I think it'll really be the season that makes (or breaks) the show. Even at its worst, I would probably still enjoy whatever they cook up, but part of me really wants to see them reach those higher dramatic heights (of character drama) that are right there for the taking.

Anyone agree or disagree? I ask, as if anyone has made it this far lol Well, thanks if you did, I guess I needed to get some things off my chest. Here's to hoping.

#the rings of power #rings of power #trop meta #rop meta #rop spoilers #midnight ramblings #... this got long #mainly i need s3 to do better by galadriel and arondir and a few other characters not even gonna lie #still love this show with all my heart #and feel good about its future

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rey-jake-therapist · 25 days ago

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About the AMA with McPayne and the "it was just a cool shot" I haven't seen some things mentioned.

Charlotte Brändström was the director of that scene. And, that scene was filmed during the writer's strike so McPayne couldn't be involved during the filming of that scene.

If McPayne didn't intend it to be anything more during the writing of the scene, a director might have had a different intent.

I mean, you're right, but he would definitely know if there was an intent. But again, the fact that he didn't straight out deny it leaves all the possibility that it may have been intentional.

Honestly, I'm not sure I would have given so much thought to this shot myself, if they hadn't doubled down when they filmed the wake of Galadriel.

There's also the sound to take into account : when Galadriel woke up, there was not only the video effect, but an eerie sound. And if it says anything regarding the "presence" of Sauron watching her, it could very well explain why Payne and McKay won't say anything about it yet.

First shot : Sauron has a very keen eye, we know that. He could see Adar's army from an extremely long distance, and who knows even if he wasn't able to see Galadriel and Adar talking in the tent. There's much we don't know yet about his visual capacities. Same of his hearing abilities ;) With this in mind, there's nothing extraordinary for him in being able to see Galadriel down the cliff.

Second shot : Galadriel was in an entirely new place, and Sauron was probably far gone. Meaning, he wasn't standing above her this time. If they admitted now that Sauron was capable of seeing her while being a different place, it would be admitting that he created a bond with her when he stabbed her with Morgoth's place, because it would be the only reason why he could do that. And that, they won't do.

I've often seen assumed, just as late as today, that Sauron could see the three Elven rings after they were forged, because "he can see everything, everywhere", and because the sight of the three Elven rings turned into his Eye, at the end of season 1. He also had a smug smile on his face implying he was happy with what he had just seen.

Except, except... During the finals, we got the proof that Sauron didn't see the rings, through his reaction to seeing Nenya:

"it is even more beautiful that Celebrimbor led me to believe",

is what he told Galadriel. Meaning, he had never seen it yet. I'm still very much convinced that he was somehow present in the forge when they made the Elven rings, as it was hinted here :

But the claim that he literally sees everything is taking these scenes way too literally imho. If he could see everything, everywhere, or if he can read minds as I also saw suggested, how comes he still gets surprised ? If he was really capable of "seeing everything" with his super Eye, why would he need spies ?

So, my guess is that he can feel a lot of things happening, for example : he felt that the rings were made according to his design, because he's connected to the rings, and to Galadriel as well... Hence the satistifed smug. He's also capable to collect datas about the people he connects with, when he catches them into his mind palace (or rather.... invades theirs ?) and builds illusions based on their personal memories. But I don't think that he literally "sees" everything, as if they were happening right in front of him.

So where am I going with these ideas? Simple : I think that if we're right that this visual effect was used to tell us that Sauron was watching Galadriel, the fact that he was capable to see Galadriel wake up in the "safe haven protected by the rings" informs us that because he created this bond between them, he can see her, something he wasn't able to do before unless she was within his reach.

#ask answered #trop 2x08 #trop speculation #haladriel #galadriel #sauron #eye of sauron #saurondriel

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starsofarda · 2 months ago

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Ok, so. I am gonna try something here, like a modern AU of sort starting off from this post: https://starsofarda.tumblr.com/post/762738119355285504/ok-i-will-try-but-once-i-am-more-awake

I would like to thank @dfwbwfbbwfbwf for giving me rope and I would like to please ask the entirety of te fandom to not be harsh, because last time I even tried writing a fic of some sort I was literally torn into pieces - I was 16 at the time and ROTK had just come out in cinemas, still.

So, the idea is palantiri being specifically built phones by Feanor for his kids. It's gonna be wild. And I will try my best, but ultimately I am gonna have fun and let my brain go.

The stakes are significantly lower here, glory of AUs.

I am gonna do like a bullet point list.

Be Feanor

Complain to your wife Nerdanel that kids are growing up and start being independent, cue Feanor deeply missing the time his kids were little, then Nerdanel suggesting that maybe they should get new phones and maybe get on a cruise together as a family - heck, let's include also Celebrimbor, bc he's like a toddler at best by then and we might as well.

There's gonna be shenanigans anyway, so why not let the toddler form some core memories.

We are talking about FEANOR and HIS SONS, notoriously the least chill people on Arda.

Nerdanel will regret this decision on day 2 of the cruise.

It is briefly suggested that Finarfin, Fingolfin and the rest of Feanor's half step family included sons and daughters be invited, but this ends up with SOMEONE throwing hands, someone being Fingolfin and Feanor mainly.

Feanor: "I DON'T WANT YOU ON MY CRUISE!"

Fingolfin: "I DIDN'T WANT TO COME TO YOUR STUPID CRUISE ANYWAY!"

Finarfin: "GUYS CAN'T WE HAVE A CHILL ONE FOR ONCE? AT LEAST FOR THE KIDS' SAKE?"

It is decided at the end that only Feanor, Nerdanel and their 7 sons + Celebrimbor attend (yes, also his mother comes, Nerdanel needs someone chill as moral support).

This will be inserted in the already long list of family feuds to bring up during family meetings and celebrations.

(gods I am feeling for the entire family tree due to personal experiences with my own family)

ANYWAY.

Cruise starts on a really sunny and happy day.

At least this is Feanor's point of view.

Celegorm's dog Huan has been lost and found a couple of times, Caranthir has already tried committing fraud three times, Maedhros has taken the role of Third Parent and also his Eldest Daughter syndrome is showing, Maglor has in the meantime published another one of his songs on youtube and bandcamp basically dissing everyone - he will later do a non-apology apology video about it - Amrod and Amras still in their teens are trying to Cause Problems On Purpose.

Celebrimbor is being the Model Child and quietly toying with like a fidget spinner

He WILL cause shenanigans when Elder kid Annatar tries to make him get ALL of the plasticky child rings from a vending machine on the ship

I mean these rings:

The ploy will be exacting revenge on the Feanorians for supposedly sending big brother Morgoth to jail for petty theft

The theft being three decorative sparkly glass baubles called Silmarils Feanor made years prior and by the time the theft happens the baubles are now nowhere near any Feanorian, but Feanor still feels a lot about them

ANYWAY.

Each of Feanor's kids is equipped with a Specially Built By Feanor Smartphone

Reaction ranging from "OMG DAD did YOU ACTUALLY DO THIS" to "couldn't you just buy us new phones" to "ok what am I supposed to do with this brick"

Nerdanel laughs. "Told you so, darling."

Feanor decides to take all of it as a good thing and leaves the phones with his kids.

"They are called palantiri, they have been built so no one can destroy them - I can see you try already, Amrod, Amras, so stop before you actually get hurt."

"Dad, did you call them palantiri because that's the sound they make when you throw them at the person you are calling. You know. To see them from afar."

the slap everyone hears is actually Maedhros facepalming and trying to repeat to himself the mantra that "it's gonna be fine" and "please valar give me patience because if you give me strength I am committing war crimes."

Celegorm tests the endurance of the palantir smartphone by playing fetch with Huan using the phone as a ball.

The cruise can finally start.

It's gonna be long. I am gonna have to think of the rest now.

Thoughts? Comments? Prayers?

#tolkien #the silmarillion #feanor #feanorians #sons of feanor #fanfiction #sort of anyway #crack #comedy #pls do not kill me

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la-cinephile · 2 months ago

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Review and thoughts about TROP 02x08

After watching episode 8 twice (and after crying a lot), here is my review of the last episode of the season 2 of The Rings of Power with a lot of spoilers.

A visual masterpiece

It's not the first episode to be really good on that point but there are definitely some epic scenes that make this season finale almost perfect visually. It begins with the first sequence at Khazad-Dûm with the Balrog. Huge shoutout to the VFX crew who creates this creature and for their work throughout the show because visual effects look great 99% of the time (the 1% left is for the warg in season 1).

King Durin facing the Balrog - Shadow and Flame (02x08)

Through the episode we also have a lot of stunning shots as the ones below :

Pelargir - Shadow and Flame (02x08)

Númenor - Shadow and Flame (02x08)

Rivendell - Shadow and Flame (02x08)

An emotional episode

Even though the series was good in season 1 and also in the beginning of season 2, I didn't feel so emotional than in the last two episodes and especially in episode 8.

Father and son (of father / daughter) relationships are always moving to me so the scene between Prince Durin IV and his father at the beginning and THAT scene with Adar and his children had a big impact on me.

The betrayal scene is the saddest and one of the most brutal thing that happened in the show. It's well done and echoes perfectly what happened in the 02x01 in the flashback but it was hard to watch. I mean, Adar trusted his children and them, they didn't understand that he was making sacrifices not really by choice but because it was necessary to assure peace for their kind. It was a heavy price for him, it was painful but he knew it was the only way to win but no, Glûg thought it was better to make an alliance with Evil.

As I said in a previous post, there is something very similar to the Assassination of Julius Caesar in this scene with the Lord-Father being betrayed by several of his children, especially Glûg who was one of his closest "child", not to mention that Adar calls him "son" (yeah I'm sobbing again writing this).

Adar being betrayed by Glûg - Shadow and Flame (02x08)

I hate Glûg for what he did but he clearly didn't deserve to die like that (poor Mrs Glûg and Glûg Jr) but it's the only way for the other orcs to realize that they made a mistake and be like : "oh no, daddy was right, we were so wrong not to trust him"

Of course as an Adar fan it's hard to watch this scene but his narrative arc makes sense and we all knew he would die sooner or later. He was there during two seasons and that's already a long for an OC and even if he had survived, what next? If his children had been taken by Sauron anyway, would he have lived with that ? With the fact that he lost his children? I don't think so.

Anyway, Adar is undoubtedly one of the best character in the whole series and I will really missed him in the next seasons.

Let me be delulu for a moment : in the beginning of season 3 we will see that the betrayal scene was just a vision of Adar when he put on the ring and by doing so he sees what will happen and so he will prevent it and everything will be fine

I also must talk about the scene between Celebrimbor and Sauron and once again, what a scene! Charles Edwards and Charlie Vickers' performances are so great. This duo is one of the higlights of this second season, and both characters have a very good evolution. I feel so bad for Celebrimbor and I hate Sauron so much for what he has done to him.

But the episode also have less serious moments and sometimes even got some "fun" like when Gil-galad reacts to the sound of the dwarves coming to help the elves by just saying "Dwarves" with a knowing glance to Elrond. This quote doesn't have to be so funny but it made me smile (and I needed it).

Talking about Gil-galad, seeing him on the battlefield make me like him more. I mean I didn't really like him before because he had this elvish attitude I really don't like and I clearly prefer him as a warrior king.

I will just add a few words on Galadriel : Morfydd Clark was once again so badass. Her quote "the door is shut" and the kick just after, I mean it's so good to have a strong woman in a fiction like this, no matter what haters think, there is girl power in TROP and I love that!

An amazing soundtrack

Bear McCreary has created so many masterpieces throughout the whole series and there are definitely great musical themes added in season 2 like the music for Rhûn or this awesome metal song (The Last Ballad of Damrod) in episode 7.

Soundtrack is an important part of a tv series or a movie and so in TROP, the scenes are not just great, they become epic and truly as powerful as some scenes in the LOTR trilogy. It really gave me chills through all episode 8, mostly at the end at the future Rivendell which is a so beautiful scene.

Near perfection

The episode wasn't perfect and not as good as episode 7 in my opinion and I think the main reason is the pacing.

There is something wrong with it, it happens also in other episodes but here it's obvious, I mean some time has passed since the end of episode 7 and even if it's only a matter of a couple hours, I think it would have been better if episode 8 have been longer and could explain how Arondir was healed for example.

Let me be clear : I'm glad he is alive because he is a good character but how the hell did he survives adar's attack?! He was stabbed with an arrow and with a sword and he appears in episode 8 as if nothing bad happened to him, just a scratch or something like that. He looks just fine and it would have been better to have an explanation. Yes, you will say it's Gil-galad who must have healed him but when? And why aren't they together when they are taking hostages by the orcs before the dwarfs are coming to rescue?

With more time, we could also have known why Adar took the crown in the middle of the forest or how Glûg convinced other orcs to betray Adar because the last time we saw him in episode 7, he seems to be the only one to stay at the camp and not following Adar to the city and I would have be more kind on his "conspiracy" if we had a shot where some Uruks gathered around Glûg (you'll say we saw that earlier in episode 7 during the dialogue between Glûg and Adar but I keep thinking that a shot with several orcs staying with Glûg while Adar is marching to the city would have be more significant.)

Okay, it's my way to say I want an extended cut, no matter how long it is but please Amazon give us the extended cut!

Also, I know there is no need to explain everything (even though it's one of my flaw either as a spectator and as a writer because I always want to know every details or make sure that everything is clear) but how did Galadriel survived a fall like that?

About the Gandalf's reveal well it's not a bad thing if you considered only the movies and if you haven't read the books but I hope it's not only for fan service. I'm not mad at it but with all the hints, it's not such a big reveal in the end.

Conclusion

It was a good episode and I prefer this second season to the first one. The end is perfect as it concludes some narrative arcs and opens on others like the creation of The One Ring, Númenóreans going on war or the establishment of Rivendell. Yes some characters will be missed in the next seasons but if the show really goes on for 5 seasons, it's already good for some characters to have been able to stay alive that long, moreover for Adar who was supposed to be killed off earlier according to the showrunners. I can't wait for the next season because great things are coming and it will probably be at least as good as this second season.

Thanks for reading this long review 😊

#the rings of power #the lord of the rings #trop season 2 #the rings of power s2 #trop s2 #the rings of power spoilers #trop spoilers #tv series review #adar #galadriel #gil galad #king durin iii #prince durin #sauron #celebrimbor

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buffyfan145 · 3 months ago

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I got the first 2 episodes in of "Rings of Power" s2 and they were amazing!!! 😀 Worth waking up at 5 am to watch. LOL I still got ep 3 to watch and will this afternoon, but need to get my thoughts out here behind a cut, but so happy with s2 so far. Not tagging all the characters, as it seems to think too many is spam, so hopefully this goes in the tags and I talk about most.

First off, I loved seeing Sauron's backstory in ep 1!!! 😀 I mentioned before in my other posts that I'm a fan of Jack Lowden's and it was great getting to see him after the version Adar knew. I only expect Jack back in flashbacks if he's able, even more so seeing a new interview with Charlie this morning assuring fans that he won't be recast. The whole prologue explained so much about what happened with Adar, and then Sauron reforming eventually into Halbrand. Also confirmed he really was going to Númenor on his own, and his meeting with Galadriel really was by chance so those theories he planned it all along were wrong.

Charlie's doing amazing too both as Halbrand and now as Annatar. I loved all the shoutouts too to "The Silmarillion" and other 1st Age stories about him, including him being The Lord of the Werewolves and able to talk with that wolf. Then the Bible references as we knew about the Annatar transformation scene looking like Jesus and angel paintings, but also the "Let My People Go!" scene fit with Moses and especially the "Prince of Egypt" movie, which I love too. But also realized at times they way they're doing (and Tolkien wrote) Sauron rising from nothing to being aids to kings is so similar to the Bible story of Joseph, and the musical "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat" (which my high school did an amazing version of that music my junior year of high school LOL). So I loved all of this and everything we saw with Celebrimbor in ep 2.

Then with Galadriel!!! 😀 OMG, first I have to mention about those Haladriel scenes!!! We knew the rings were going to connect them, as well as their mental bond in general, but now she's seeing visions and knows Sauron is in Eregion and saw him there. Plus, hearing him call her name in that vision, and confirming that she can read his mind, and him hers (as he knew the rings worked). Then the big one where Galadriel confessed to Elrond about how she feels about Halbrand/Sauron (and still used his Halbrand name) and it clearly was showing us that she fell in love with him by using that flashback to the "I felt it too" scene, and that's why everything that happened and being deceived hurt her so much. And Elrond knows now, which is why he and Gil Galad are being like that to her now as they don't trust her around Sauron anymore and think she'll turn. Loving that we're getting scenes about Haladriel even if they both are actually in the same place.

Then I loved the scene with the rings and showing they are good and worked to help restore the elves. Absolutely love Círdan too and being a mentor to Elrond. Him talking about more 1st Age characters and their flaws was great too. LOL

The storyline with The Stranger, Nori, and Poppy is great too. He's got to be Gandalf. I thought this the whole time but every scene I see of him just confirms it to me.

Pretty sure Ciarán Hinds' character is one of the Blue Wizards. The show did supposedly get the rights to use the Blue Wizards stories that Tolkien wrote in "Unfinished Tales" and one of the 2 Blues went evil in the 2nd Age in Rhûn, similar to how Saruman did in the 3rd Age. So I'm pretty sure that's what we're seeing him and that he found a cult with the Mystics.

Then loved seeing more with Durin, Disa, and the dwarves. It's setting up Sauron/Annatar giving them the 7 rings, and the making of the Doors of Durin too. Also very cool seeing Narvi too and the female dwarves having facial hair similar to more male elves having long hair (this didn't bother me like it did other fans but cool to see them add it). Though also really sad about the singing not working.

So now getting ready to watch ep 3 this afternoon and I saw from the description that it involves other characters we haven't seen yet from s1, and then I'll be caught up till ep 4 next week.

#the lord of the rings #the rings of power #spoilers #haladriel #halbrand #sauron #galadriel #galadriel x halbrand #annatar #celebrimbor #elrond #cirdan #the stranger #gandalf

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fukutomichi · 3 months ago

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It's RAMBLE TIIIME!!! Okay, I think I can talk about it now, probably most have seen the episodes. It's a bit longish! Here we go!

That first episode is so far my favorite, because above all else, I'm a GIGANTIC fan of visual storytelling and show-don'tell, and that first episode had me FEASTING. You can probably tell by my gifsets that I love when actors emote and act without dialog using only emotions and facial expressions to get the message out. Episode 1 gave us so much of it. And dare I say bordering a bit on horror/gore a bit, those first few minutes with Sauron in his "desk job era" had me surprised by how brutal it got quickly.

If people are wondering if they're gonna do the Celebrimbor thing, and if THAT is gonna be too brutal to show, this might confirm that they may not shy away from it at all.

I love the fact that they took the criticism that was mentioned for the first two-three episodes in Season 1, when I was actually kinda worried that the pace was going a bit TOO slow and it took three weeks, when the story moves to Númenor , for the series to fully kick in gear. This time they were like, lets get the set-up out of the way, all at once, and then release week after week. Lets see if this decision pays of in the next weeks ahead.

So lets get this out of the way. I had a hunch with Nazanin Boniadi missing from promos and interviews that they are gonna off her character right away. Turns out that there was even an announcement before that I've completely missed and I was gutted when I found out, but in the end of the day, a job is still a job, and if it affects you in anyway, it's probably best to leave it. I have had a first hand experience in this and no matter how high the pay was, my health was much more important than anything and had to quit. I'm gonna miss her and wish her the best!

Arondir and Theo's relationship gets back to square one, so I'm interested to see in what way or IF it gets mended cause man, I dunno how they can pull it off this time. BUT I do LOVE that they've paired Theo alongside Isildur which is a character he can empathize with so I wanna see where that leads. My friends immidiatelly groaned when they heard "Gawddd the ARROW really?? =___="...and then remembered about a tiny movie called The Hobbit and what happened to Kili. We had to go to Hobbit logic to explain it away and move on lol.

The new character Estrid, was IMMEDIATELY suss as HELL to me. Even after she burned her sigil on her back so she can hide it. I've been listening to her soundtrack theme, and almost like as if its made from two layers, feels almost TOO magical for her even. But this is just my hunch. Isildur is still too wide-eyed and naive so maybe she will serve some purpose in him getting a bit jaded later on.

ORC BABIES!! HELLO!! I love that we're getting deeper into the orcish origins and probably everyone's favorite topic, are they redeemable?? Can they be??? I also love that we got to have two Adars. Season 1 we had Joseph Mawle with an almost vulnerable portrayal and what seemed like a suicide mission for him. Now for Season 2 we get Sam Hazledine, with his goal complete AND him still alive, a more driven and focused character...but is he gonna survive THIS season?? 😭

We know Adar also mentions how he meets Sauron for the first time...but that doesn't stop me from AGAIN, thinking that he IS MAGLOR. Come one maaaan, the hand!!! "In the eldest of the Elder days" you don't just drop a line like that causally. DROP THAT REVEAL!!!

WE NEED MORE OF THE HARFOOTS!!! WE NEED MORE WIZARDS!!! These 3 eps were not enough for me lol. I'm just beyond excited for Tom Bombadil!! Please have Goldberry, please have Goldberry!!

Disa and Durin are still relationship goals. UGHHH!! They will have me stressed!

I ain't gonna lie. When that giant eagle landed before Pharazôn, there were a few seconds where I was buttclenching thinking he was gonna pull his sword and swing it on the bird...but then Manwë would probably descend and obliterate Númenor in seconds and the series would be over lol. Númenor will have me stresseeeed. The Petty Lord and his Queen WILL RUIN MEEEH!! 😭 😭 😭

Ben Daniels as Cirdan is an A+++ casting choice. Kinda bummed that he hasn't talked properly with Gil-Galad tho. Make different characters interact more with each other damn iiiiit!!! Let us see them establish connections!!

That being said, my favorite part so far, and are probably gonna be the central focus of this season, are the elves. Their strive for perfection, thinking themselves SO infallible, beyond prideful, are gonna be the very things that bite them in the ass...again lol.

And it's important for us to see that, cause THAT is the extent of Sauron's evil, we need to witness just how much he can mess you up and how much he enjoys playing the game, in the same time thinking himself savior and deserving of love. How much PURE good you have to be to resist him. Elrond so far has proven able to resist, given his past.

Galadriel is on the brink. If listening to "The Last Temptation" tells me something...Galadriel so far hasn't learned her lesson and thinking herself able to resist.

I believe there's a gut-punch coming up in the finale and I'm not gonna be ready for it. And yet, as much as I don't like it, WE NEED TO SEE IT! We need to see how evil can be tempting and irresistible, that even an infallible being can fail.

After all, it's all downhill from here.

#it's gonna be a long ass wait till next thrusday damn iiiiit!!#shut it fuku #the rings of power #trop #trop spoilers

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eri-pl · 5 months ago

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Another B&L rework

This time is has everything we need:

Celegorm is not villanized and actually cool (still a kinslayer, but only once)

Curufin is not too villanized either (he is pragmatic with bad results, really bad at estel, and still a kinslayer. But he isn't a cartoon villain, just complicated. Also G-g's dad.)

Finrod is there and is still awesome (and still not very smart)

There's more angst than in the canon

It fits seamlessly with the rest of the story

Long post below cut

It starts during the battle (was that Sudden Flame?). Barahir saves both Finrod and Celegorm. Curufin is somewhere else at the time, idk, battles are chaotic, ok? Finrod makes his oath to Barahir. Celegorm has trauma on oaths, but gives Barahir a ring (yes, it's not Finrod in this), and a not-a-promise-but-I-feel-in-debt talk.

The 3 Elves (FCC) go together to Nargothrond (which was built either by Finrod or better Finrod and Curufin: Finrod did the diplomacy and decor, Curufin did the engineering. Anyway now they're all there). There is no Orodredh, we don't need him anyway.

BTW Gil-Galad as Celebrimbor's brother? He's just more introverted and a slow bloomer? So at this point he doesn't do much, I imagine him hunting w uncle Celegorm and talking philosophy with Finrod. This kind of interests. He'll grow to be more of a warrior later, probably during War of Wrath.

Finrod happily shares the rulership with Curufin, because then he can spend more time on art and fanboying over Mannish philosophy and trying to figure it out. Curufin likes to manage stuff. Celegorm is in and out of the city, hunting and often bored.

They are friends, even with the stains of the whole Kinslaying thing. But their dynamics is... well, they do argue. Finrod is the idealist and sometimes lacks contact with reality. Curufin is the clever one, but very pragmatic, even cynical. Celegorm is not into discussions and easily bored. But they do like each other etc. they did fight together, it connects.

Also, Finrod is totally a Man fanboy at this point and assumes (why? idk. He is just like that) the Secondborn are a fix to everything and will solve the Oath of Feanor somehow and everything. He is not, like, insane, but he is definitely overenthusiastic at times, and much of an idealist. He does some really weird and often false extrapolation from what Andredh told him and everyone kinda ignores his more esoteric ideas. But he is also wise in many areas. Just don't let him start talking about philosophy ;) Also he is very optimistic in general, that's just his personality (I think Celegorm is also rather optimistic, even with all the circumstances).

Then Beren comes. Finrod of course follows him to the quest, C&C discuss it and Celegorm goes too. Part of it is gratitude, part of it is the Silmaril. He's got no idea what would he do if Beren succeeds. But this is Celegorm. He doesn't think much into the future.

Curufin stays as technically a regent, but it's pretty clear to everyone that Finrod is not going to come back, so he is de facto king from the start. He does the "imprison Luthien to protect her" thing, but it's well-intentioned. Also, he likes her more than he likes Beren, and he doesn't want to risk her getting a Silmaril because then he'd have to kill her (She is aware of it, and of the fact that he would probably be willing to kill Beren if it came to that. She doesn't like Curufin, to say it mildly, but they are also allies. It's complicated. She runs away anyway.).

He also later does the stupid bridge thing. He's nor actively malicious here, just makes bad decisions. Also, Finrod would want him to listen to the advice of Men and he has some anger on Finrod at this point (for dying and, even more, for getting Celegorm into a quest he will likely not survive) and there's some subconscious passive-agressive "I'll do the stupid thing Finrod would do, he deserves it!". Also, building things is just cool and the bridge does sound like it could make sense.

Huan stays in the city with Luthien, Celegorm orders him or manipulates him to stay, "for his own good" (Celegorm does not expect to return from the quest), Huan is very upset about it, so of course both he and Luthien run away.

Beren with two Elves disguise as Orcs. Finrod does the singing, Celegorm does the more material part of disguise (mud and clay and stuff) and invents the names. ("Felagund" is not a well-known name for Finrod and Beren is just a random dude, so it's not *that* stupid. Celegorm picks something better than reverse-name for himself. "Nauh" maybe :D or a less obvious pun.) Celegorm thinks it is funny, and makes the names like that to make Sauron look stupid. Finrod does the song duel - he is a better singer than Celegorm. Celegorm is a much better liar though, so he also has his part. They get captured anyway. They do probably have some people with them, but not much (C&C were stubborn about not wasting lives), the canon 10 is fine. Everything goes as normal, except Celegorm is there. The wolf is huge. Celegorm starts the "break the chains and bite it to death" first, Finrod frees himself too (maybe with a little help) but they can't free Beren, the fight is too intense. Celegorm bites the wolf to death, Finrod helps a little, both are severly wounded. Finrod manages to heal Celegorm enough to save his life, but Celegorm is bad at healing (because he's a kinslayer and also because it's just something he was never good at, Finrod was better, because he is good at singing in general). Celegorm faints, Finrod dies. :(

Luthien and Huan come and get the two of them out. More healing. Celegorm is surprised to be alive, becasue Doom of the Noldor and all.

They do the questing as in canon. They go to Angband. I have a small problem with Huan here, I need a reason for him to stay outside, maybe further away. Wounded?

They enter Angband. Do things as in canon. Beren yoinks the Silmaril. Celegorm makes a weird face and something that leads to noise (maybe he is trying to yoink the other one in the meantime?). Anyway Celegorm looks as if he was considering murdering B&L and generally insane, Morgoth's forces wake up, B&L run...

Celegorm stays behind. (That's why we can't have Huan here - he would stay with Celegorm and we need him later.)

He stays to cover their backs, but from B&L's point of view he may as well be staying because the Silmarils compelled him and he is out of his mind now. If I wrote this as a fic, it would be clear in his PoV that he does the heroic thing here, and dies like a hero (yes, he legit dies and goes to Mandos, give him at least this), but from B&L's pov it's ambiguous.

The rest goes as normal, except there is no Orodreth. Curufin survives the fall of Nargothrond (we'll need him at the kinslaying). Oh, and Celebrimbor doesn't cut ties with his father and uncle, but that doesn't change anything really. Huan dies as per the story.

B&L are smart enough to not try to meet Curufin again.

Dior is raised partially by B&L on stories of Celegorm who died a hero (They do give him the benefit of doubt. It is sometimes emotionally difficult for them to do so, but they do.), and on stories of the tragedy of the House of Feanor. Luthien teaches him compassion for them (this isn't very easy to do either, but she does), but not support for all their deeds.

And partially he is raised by others, on stories of Feanorians as bloodthirsty monsters (I imagine Thingol would propagate those).

Also, he is raised by Melian, who has foresight and straightup tells Dior that getting the Silmarils will not save the sons of Feanor, but it will destroy them. Maybe even some details about fire and despair. And she tells him that the Silmaril he holds is the best hope for Beleriand, though she doesn't yet know how. For all of them, both Feanorians and everyone else.

So, when they demand the Silmaril later, he still refuses. Not out of hate for them. He refuses in order to protect them. For the memory of Celegorm, and for pity. And for sake of the whole world. That too.

Curufin gets his letter (with all this explained), rolls his eyes and tears the letter to pieces. He is the pragmatic one and wants to protect Maedhros and others from the difficult choice and despair of knowing that they cannot win. From his point of view following the Oath is necessary, otherwise they're all doomed. He destroys Dior's letter to save his brothers.

And his sons. In this version Celebrimbor is still with him (and Gil-galad!), so Curufin sends his poor, innocent, not-Oath-bound sons somewhere far. And prepares for battle.

Two of Celegorm's servants remember how their lord died because of those Silmaril thieves. They suspect that Beren and Luthien backstabbed Celegorm so that they could take the gem for themselves. The two warriors have sworn revenge long ago.

The rest goes on as normal, except without Celegorm because he's dead. So we later do get Earendil and all that.

(Oh, probably Huan's 3 speeches would be different. Celegorm in this version deserves at least one.)

Also:

Celegorm: I'm... not in the Everlasting Darkness? Namo: By protecting those two you did more to bring woe onto Morgoth that you would do any other way. It will lead to his downfall. Celegorm: Are you allowed to tell me all that? Namo: *shrug* You shall not be reborn until he is defeated. Celegorm: *assumes it's like, thousands of years* :( Celegorm: ...what is the Everlasting Darkness, anyway? Namo: *exhausted tone* I do not answer questions on metaphysics. Celegorm: *knowingly* ...Finrod? Namo: *nod* Celegorm: My apologies, I tried to spare you his visit. ;D :( Namo: ...and tell me, why it is that you could not heal him? Celegorm:...because I'm a kinslayer?* Namo: Because you're a kinslayer. Now ponder on this for some time, I shall visit you later.

*(there's a canon thing that killing people makes you a worse healer even if it was justified)

There are probably still some holes in this narrative, because I'm bad at the lore. I would be grateful for corrections.

#silm #silmarillion #the silm #the silmarillion #tolkien legendarium #silm au #silm fic ideas #celegorm #curufin #beren and luthien

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