#way autistic people 'mask' is interesting ::-)

[moreaugriffins]

IDK who needs to hear this, but Egon and Ray aren't the only autistic og ghostbusters

Peter is too

Your telling me this man with two PhDs related to psychology, who always has the exact right thing to say to manipulate a situation to his favour (when it's a planned/known situation), but cocks up massively when it's an unknown situation, who has a massive reaction to getting slimed (more so than the others), who would rather joke all the time than take a situation seriously because wtf should he say

you're telling me this man is neurotypical?

nah

Winston's the only NT in this group (idk how he deals with these weirdos (affectionate))

[eye-of-yelough]

realising that gortash’s uhhh. mind control (i guess that’s the right word?) over aeryn would’ve made his wisdom stat decline, not his intelligence… right? like being psychologically malleable and easily subdued is a sign of low wisdom, not low intelligence, right?

(can you tell bg3 is my first dnd media and my lowest stat irl is intelligence?)

which sucks a little bit. a lot actually. because wisdom is also generally the stat that makes you emotionally intelligent, intuitive, insightful, good at reading people, etc, which aeryn is. so. i don’t really know what to do with that.

[sherlock-is-ace]

everyday i find that an autistic trait i didn't relate to because i do the opposite, is actually also an autistic trait

[infizero]

every time i so much as think about that scene where light looks at porn magazines while scowling i go into hysterics its genuinely the funniest thing i've ever seen

[chaoticneurodivergent]

Extra love today to Autistic people who:

Can't drive

Struggle with shopping

Struggle with cleaning

Need help with simple tasks sometimes (or frequently)

Cannot follow directions that are simple for others

Noticeably lack motor skills

Have interests or hobbies associated with children

Stim in noticeably out of the ordinary ways and can't mask it

Have learning disabilities.

[misterradio]

your honour it is the inherent autism of robots

[toomanyacronyms]

Probably gonna get hate for this, but the "broader autism phenotype" just sounds like...

... The DSM IV. With a little aspie supremacy thrown in for funsies. Specifically PDD and PDD-NOS.

[blue-rasberry-soda]

Laios: Diagnosed with autism when he was five but his parents never told him because they didn't want him to "use it as an excuse". So, he knows he's weird, but has no clue why.

Falin: Never diagnosed, but the family just knew because they already raised Laios. They used what they learned from raising Laios to help raise her, so although she also was never told she was autistic, she has a better grasp on what her needs are and how to get them met.

Marcille: Special interests and delayed social development made her a pleasure to have in class and a straight A student who was only friends with the teachers.

Senshi: "Back in my day, we didn't have all this Autism stuff" but he comes from a long line of autists so believes Special Intrests and all his other peculiarities are perfectly normal. Doesn't even believe autism exists because "everyone had those symptoms!"

Chilchuck: Had to learn how to mask really early on, and how to ask for accommodations in ways that neurotypical people will actually listen to. He does in fact fully know he's autistic, but only because at least one of his daughters inherited it, and she got diagnosed. He raised his girls right, and is using a lot of those techniques to keep the rest of the party in check.

[drchucktingle]

my masks

hey there buckaroos. due to all of the attention the TEXAS LIBRARY ASSOCIATION situation has gotten i am going to take a minute to talk about my personal way as an autistic buckaroo. im going to tell you about my masks.

im doing this for a few reasons, some are good FUN reasons full of love and some are not so great. 

lets start with the GOOD STUFF. first of all, i am talking about this because speaking on my way can help other buckaroo feel more comfortable speaking on there own way, ESPECIALLY if they are good at ‘passing’ for neurotypical like chuck is. 

unfortunately the NOT SO GREAT reasons im talking about all this dang stuff are two fold. reason one: i have been put into a position of having to explain and justify my needs and boundaries by the TXLA. this is not something that i WANT to be taking up all of my time, but when large organizations do not make space for those who they have pledged to support, it puts us smaller buckaroos into position where were have to defend our existence. it is not plesent but it is necessary.

the second NOT SO GREAT reason is that ‘passing’ bisexual and autistic people like myself are ALWAYS just seconds from being gatekept from folks both outside and inside these communities. there will probably be a day on chucks deathbed where i take off my mask and say hello to this timeline (mostly so you can all see how handsome i am under here but I DIGRESS). i KNOW with absolute certainty (the same way other bi and autistic buckaroos are probably nodding along right now) that when that day comes i will STILL be accused of ‘not being real’ and ‘faking’ because i ‘dont look autistic’ and i have a beautiful ladybuck partner in sweet barbara.

ALL THAT IS TO SAY, i am taking a moment today to talk FOR THE RECORD about my neurodigence and my particular needs. hopefully i will not have to keep diving this deep every time an organization takes a discrimantory action against me, but i will also say this: at least it is a good fight on an important battlefield

anyway buds, here is the story of my way on the spectrum

when i was a young buckaroo i knew that my thought process was different. i could socialize easily, which is unique in contrast to many autistic buds (it is a spectrum after all), but my social ease was for an interesting reason. I ALWAYS KNEW WHAT OTHERS WERE ABOUT TO SAY. it was like a strange ‘human game’ where someone would say one thing and i would think ‘well you actually mean something else’ in a sort of logical way (this is why i later related to DATA from star trek so dang much). at first i remember thinking ‘well i am just NOT going to play along with this human game’. i quickly learned neurotypical buckaroos do not like this, that there is a BOB AND WEAVE to social interactions that must be learned. 

later i realized ‘actually if i WANT to make friends and prove love is real then i can do this like an expert because i can SEE the game where most cant’. this got chuck many buds and took me on many adventures. please understand, i am not saying these connections are not important to me, they are just different. they are full of love, but i express this in my own unique way.

HOWEVER, while growing up i felt disconnected from this timeline in other ways, like an alien or a reverse twin trotting along in a world that is not quite my own. i did not feel emotions the same way my buds did. they would get upset over the ‘human game’ interactions and i would not be moved at all, HOWEVER i could see the way sunlight hit a window and start crying my dang eyes out over the beauty. so my emotion was still there and VERY STRONG, i just felt it in more existential ways (like hearing the call of the lonesome train). these days that feeling has progressed to where i am pretty much in a constant blissed out state of cosmic emotional connection (make of that last sentence what you will, but it is the truth). when i make existential posts online i am not just FIRING OFF SOME CONTENT, i really mean every word. this is really my trot.

anyway as a young buckaroo these feelings made me worry sometimes. i thought about various mental health dianosises and marked the parts and pieces that matched with myself. am i this? am i that? sometimes, instead of just being’ different’ i worried i might actually be ‘wrong’. 

when i saw david byrne on letterman in my younger days i immediately recognized something connected to myself. i thought ‘wow this is the mystery being solved before my very eyes.’ i could hear it in the music of talking heads too. i started doing research and realized that i might be on autism spectrum, something that was later confirmed by a therapist (back then the diagnosis was called asperger's). it was a glorious and fulfilling moment. i was SO EXCITED TO BE AUTISTIC LIKE MY HERO. i felt very cool because of it, and i still feel very cool because of it.

one of the big reasons i talk so much about being autistic these days is because i want to make sure OTHER buckaroos can have that same moment that i did. they can see chuck and think ‘wow i really like this autistic artist, maybe being autistic is cool’

so what does an average day WITHOUT wearing the pink bag look like for me?

my thought process is exactly like ROSE from CAMP DAMASCUS, which is part of why i wrote the book. we have the same stim (complex order of finger taps), we prepare for social interactions the same way, we analyze things in the same logical trot that neurotypical people might think feels ‘detached’ but for me feels natural (certain reviews of camp damascus are very funny to me in this way. you can tell when a reader is just very confused by existing in an autistic brain for 250 pages.)

from the outside you would not be able to tell that i am on the spectrum. in fact you would probably find me very socially adept. 

the problem is, all of that masking can take its toll. i spent years trotting in and out the emergency room, talking to confused doctors who could not figure out the chronic phantom tension and pain that radiated through my body. i eventually accepted the fact that i would either live a life constantly on heavy painkillers or just stop living altogether.

eventually, however, i started noticing a correlation between the way that i felt, and the space that i allowed for chuck and the pink mask. i was exercising that tension, allowing my mental mask of neurotypical existence to take a rest. i started practicing physical therapy and this time THE RESULTS STUCK because i was approaching from two sides, MIND AND BODY. after a while, i got my pain down to about 5 percent of what it once was. i still have flare ups in times of stress, but the healing has been very real and life changing.

lets get VERY specific now. if i attended the TXLA confrence without a mask and gave my talk i can tell you this: i would do a dang good job. i can work the heck out of a crowd and (not to reveal too much about my secret way) I HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO DO THIS ON OCCASION VERY WELL. however, going home from this event i would very likely be in pain. i would likely need to do physical therapy. i would likely need to stim for a while. i would NOT be emotionally fullfilled in the same way. in other words, without my pink mask i can charm the heck out of buckaroos, but THE SPACE OF CHUCK TINGLE IS NOT THE SPACE FOR THAT. the pink bag is a place for me to not have to put up with that tension. it is a place for me to unmask mentally by masking physically.

this pink bag space SAVED MY LIFE and i am not going to risk blurring these lines. if and when that ever happens it will be MY decision, not someone elses. that is my boundary. the part of me that neurotypically masks could handle a library conference in a purely technical sense, but the part of me that chuck represents absolutely cannot and should not be asked to do that without the pink bag. unfortunately, the complexity of this point makes it even MORE difficult for me to think about and takes up even more of my time, because it forces me to START QUESTIONING MYSELF and my own needs. to be honest, that is the most insidious part of other people questioning your identify and refusing to accept your accommodation needs without ‘proof’.

the thing is, while all of this discussion of disability and accessibility is important, i have a much larger point to make by writing these words.

a conference should not uninvite someone with an unusual physical presentation or a strange way of speaking REGARDLESS of it being classified as a disability. it does not matter WHY i look the way that i look and wear what i wear. i should not have to spend all day writing this post instead of writing my next book, just because my sensibilities are unique and my presentation is unusual. 

fortunately the solution is very simple: let other people be themselves. its not hurting you to simply accept and nod at the buckaroos you think look strange. let us exist

[homunculus-argument]

One of the most fun character concepts that I've had that I've never been able to fit into anything is The Most Appropriate Socialite Lady. Nobody dislikes her, but she is, indeed, very Appropriate, always seeming to do everything precisely to social etiquette, even according to social rules that nobody else knew were a thing. If there is a protocol to how to behave or respond in any given situation, no matter how obscure or how long ago it was that this was written down in some Refined Society Etiquette Book, she'll know it. So she is a bit old-fashioned sometimes, but not in a regressive way.

Every time there's a situation where nobody actually knows what the right way to respond would be, they quietly glance at her, because either she knows exactly how to handle this, or if the situation truly is without precedent, her educated guess of what should be done must be the right one. Someone might even write it down for a future etiquette book, of how This Most Polite Well-Mannered Lady responded to this awkward situation.

She doesn't judge people, and is never rude about people breaking Good Manner Rules on purpose (as pointing out someone doing so would be impolite), but the way she seems genuinely surprised and confused whenever someone breaks the protocol that nobody else might even been aware of makes people feel self-conscious or awkward sometimes. And she politely pretends to not notice that. She is very kind, very sweet, but also extremely Appropriate.

So even if this isn't a Victorian style gentlemanly "fine ladies are fragile and must be sheltered from the world"-style society by default, people still feel the need to behave well and be on their best formal behaviour around her, not out of fear of judgement but because she genuinely is that way and nobody wants to upset her. And if someone who doesn't give a shit about protocols upsets her on purpose by deliberately doing something that's fucking rude, they'll be discreetly moved to a different location before getting the shit beat out of them because fuck you for upsetting her.

The thing is, she's actually just autistic as hell. She originally started reading up on social etiquette as a way of masking, but it became a special interest for her, and she isn't just thrilled to teach you how to properly fold a napkin to help you better fit in to the Refined Society, but because she fucking loves infodumping. She's not trying to set herself apart, gatekeep, judge others or show off how she's better than you (like many others of her background would), she just genuinely enjoys having explicitly and clearly written rules and instructions on how to behave in society.

Also the tactful and graceful way in which she doesn't pay notice to veiled insults, or people accidentally saying something insulting to her, isn't always an act. A lot of the time she genuinely just does not notice.

[imsosleepyofyourbull]

I firmly believe that Kabru is autistic but masks so hard that he’s convinced himself and (almost) everyone around him that he’s neurotypical.

That man’s special interest is people and how they work, but he just thinks it’s him Being So Good At Socializing — like he doesn’t spend 95% of his time people watching and adjusting his personality in response to the traits he witnesses and obsessing over the intricacies of human interaction while mapping an ever growing relationship chart in his head. For fun. He even admits it in the manga!

Like, look at him!!!

It’s such a shame that — because he’s the narrative foil to Laios and his interest is generally considered more “socially acceptable” in both their world and our own — more people don’t realize this about him. He’s constantly misinterpreted as a horribly manipulative person who only acts the way he does to use the people around him, when that’s explicitly shown to not be the case at all. Kabru is naturally empathetic and is almost always thinking about other people, regardless of whether or not they’re right there with him or a thousand miles away.

I mean, his most defining motivation is his desire to do everything he can to avoid another tragedy like the one at Utaya. Someone who doesn’t care wouldn’t have a goal like that, and they most certainly wouldn’t go about it the way he does. He’s constantly working to help people who can help everyone else and tries so hard to make sure that anyone who seems like a threat is actually someone he needs to worry about before doing anything about it. His supposed aversion to Laios is only because of the ridiculous trolley problem he’s set up in his own head.

Outside of that, he (rather justifiably) hates monsters but is desperate to understand Laios’ love for them and his apparently most selfish goal in getting close to the guy was literally just to become friends with him.

When he’s interacting with the canaries and they imply that they’re going to take him and all of his friends to the West, his first thought is of Rin and how much she’d hate to be stuck in the place that gave her so many bad memories.

He helps Kuro learn Common when Mickbell is asleep and firmly looks forward to the day that the half-foot and Kuro can communicate properly so that their relationship can get properly started without any miscommunication.

And he understands Mithrun with only a handful of weeks AT BEST interacting with him, getting enraged when the elf seems to give up and immediately trying to help him find a new motivation for life.

I’m excited just thinking about the day that Kabru starts unmasking more and more around his friends — both new and old — because if being with my current friend group has taught me anything, it’s that hanging out with anyone so unabashedly themselves is bound to make you more comfortable with yourself too. It’s part of the reason why I like Labru so much! There’s something nice about imagining them hanging out in the throne room or laying in the grass outside and talking for hours on end about their special interests. They might not strictly understand what the other finds so fascinating about monsters or people, but they can grasp that shared feeling of love.

They probably influence each other in really good ways too, with Kabru helping Laios figure out what people are thinking even when it doesn’t make sense or Laios helping Kabru understand that not everyone and everything needs to be analyzed a thousand times over. They both get to learn that there are people like them and people who will love them without them ever having to change a thing about themselves. They deserve to know that they’re fine the way they are.

[hopefullyababe]

WHY DID NONE OF YOU TELL ME THERE WAS AN AUTISM MASKING EVALUATION TEST

[kinsey3furry300]

Okay so hear me out...

Both the Touden siblings are autistic. That's not too controversial a take. Senshi is also autistic, also not too hot a take. Kabru is autistic and very good at masking in social situations, and Izutsumi may have some issues (difficulties with interpersonal relationships, distorted sence of self, intense emotional responses, eating disorders, risky behaviours) or she could just be a cat and a teenager. My interest here is Marcille... I think Marcille might have ADHD, and it's not just her fussy eating and persistent absent mindedness, it's that combined with her balance.

Tests on wii balance boards, of all things, showed that people with ADHD have consistently worse balance than a control group, and that children with ADHD have significantly more mild accidents due to poor coordination. You even see this in some adults with the "ADHD walk" where they instinctively sway or lean around objects in an exaggerated way as they have internalised a fear of hitting them as they walk... and tallman Chilchuck complains during the Changling arch that Marcille is still clumsy as a half-foot, to a degree that suprises Chilchuck. Add that to some difficulty making decisions despite being very academicly gifted and her occasional executive function failures, and I think ADHD isn't an unreasonable leap.

Interestingly Chilchuck's anxiety was cured when he became a tall man, suggesting that this is an inherent trait of half-foots and not a condition unique to him, so he might be neurotypical for a half-foot, and half foots might just be naturally more risk adverce and neurotic than the other races. He's litteraly the token neurotypical friend in the group, which might explain his long-suffering attitude towards the others.

Or I'm so desperate for good ADHD representation that I'm projecting.

Edit: Following education I have removed references to BPS as it's not my area of experience and Izutsumi does not match the diagnosis criteria.

[laikabu]

if youd like, would you talk about why you read kabru as autistic? i see some overlap for him with his masking and obsession with studying people, but nothing stands out to me that doesnt feel better explained by his cptsd. im autistic myself but i feel like im missing something other ppl are getting from him and id like to understand that perspective more

ive already answered this before but it’s more of an intuition thing. if you have extroverted, very social autistic friends, he may remind you of some of them. but heres text from the manga that stood out to me

he had a hobby of observing adventurers that came to the tavern his mother worked at way before the incident happened. so his fixation on humans and anatomy isn’t caused by his trauma, rather it was something he was always interested in

any then after the incident, he was mostly asking milsiril about cultures, languages, anatomy, etc.

it’s even possible that he knows kuro’s language, even though utayans consider kobolds aggressive and unapproachable, because he was genuinely interested in learning it as a kid

he’s a foil to laios, is it’s really easy to infer that his interest in humanity is as unusual as laios’s interest in monsters. he’s self aware, but sometimes his self awareness doesn’t account for the fact his friends don’t see his behavior as normal

but anyway yeah outside of his special interest, it’s mostly intuition. it’s hard to explain… there’s some stuff that are ultra small details, like his favorite food being plain tomatoes. in modern AUs he’s mostly seen wearing t-shirts and comfortable coats like laios, whereas other characters have a diverse wardrobe

it’s kind of like… he knows what traits come off as autistic, so he tries way too hard to avoid them so he doesn’t seem autistic? does that make sense.

[venomous-qwille]

So, I’m autistic myself, but any pro tips for writing neurodiversity in characters? Pretty please?

I just take different parts of my own ND experience and amplify them with different characters!

So for cricket, it's creating an unreliable narrator by showing the world through the lens of someone with RSD, who is constantly trying to understand/react to the people around them in a way that doesn't 'rock the boat'. Who misinterprets the signals other people send (or don't send), because they don't quite understand how others think. Cricket also immediately accepts other peoples criticisms and negative jokes as literal truth- this is both internalised low self esteem and autism. The Sight is also a metaphor for sensory overstim that comes with autism. When I have to write exposition, I try to do it in the rambling, detailed way of someone who is explaining a special interest (all crickets repair scenes, for instance, where they are harping on about restoration minutiae).

But cricket isn't the only ND character!

Harry is very autism coded, through his collection/interests you see in the setting (a lot of show not tell there) and also in how he fundamentally clicks with cricket in some areas (ND minds think alike) yet has no real understanding of how he has hurt them or the way his actions effect them- there is a lot of bullheaded obliviousness which is the ugly side of autism.

Soleil is masking 2000% of the time. I write him straight up as I was as a deeply traumatized autistic teenager. You don't see his internal world at all, he is constantly modulating/masking his voice, hiding his stims, trying to copy human 'civility', trying to perform politeness and hide his anxiety. You see him self soothe by cleaning in a few chapters.

Sunspot is fun to write because I'm leveraging the 'low Vs hyper empathy' side of ND, exploring that stuff through the way he reacts to things and his relationship with being something non human that looks the most human of all.

I could go on about the other characters, but this is the crux of it:

Try to use show not tell as much as possible

Take the opportunity to weave it into the format/the unreliable narrator

Leverage your personal experiences

Show how characters react to stuff/events/eachother and imagine how those reactions might be effected by their neurodivergence

Thaaaat's about it! I think using personal experiences is the most important one, that's always core to good writing no matter what type of character you are working on.

[timkontheunsure]

Some of the reasons I think Stolas is on the spectrum

(finally getting around to popping this on up too).

He has special interests & misses social cues while being happy in them.

It not really normal to be happy reading legal documents when someone's life is on the line. But Stolas is just vibing that he gets to help with his love of words. Yay him!

Stims

He stims when both happy & sad to help regulate his emotions.

His happy stims are:

*clapping when he gets to take Via to the circus, because he thinks they can enjoy it together.

He also does this with contract reading.

*He hopps up and down when his dad gives him a new books. Also when getting ready for his date with Blitz. He's just so happy he needs to hop.

His sad stims:

*are bang his head again and again about the engagement.

*He self sooves with chest strokes when Blitz says his outfit is too much.

*He hand rubs and wringing his hat when worrying about Via in LA.

Special interests

The there's that Stolas info dumps on the playdate with Blitz all about his books and about plants.

Stolas also feels he has to explain why Blitz horse joke was soo funny. And why's it so funny?

Because it's accurate. I love his little cutie.

But he's also kept up his love of plants as a major hobby now he's an adult. When most people tend to swap interests as they age.

Side bar

His comfy resting hand position is t rex hands. This tends to be an autistic thing. Also works well as an owl.

Sensory issues

Stolas appears to also have some sensory issues too. When his a child he appears to be struggling when Mr Butler touches his hair out of nowhere.

But he's fine with Blitz doing it when they're kissing. This shows a lot of trust between them.

I think it's likely sensory issues are the reason why he swaps into his comfy, very old robe, as often as he can too.

Specific communication issues

While Stolas is very good at some communication styles, he's pretty bad at others.

When the audience think it's another joke about wanting to keep a puppy; he immediately knows Blitz's is panicking the studio. And tries to get to him.

However he doesn't get that his dirty talk is way OTT, because he's mostly likely coping it from the erotica. Not lived experience.

Speaking of erotica.

There's obviously a rule that reading is allowed at the diner table. But Stolas doesn't get This book isn't appropriate to read there.

Another rule he appears to follow more rigidly than most probably would; is that when you get an appointment you wait till you're seen.

Ozzie's ment to met Stolas at noon, but doesn't make it till 4 pm because of problems with work.

Stolas is only a couple of days out of the hospital and is probably feeling horrible.

But he sticks around a minimum of 4 hours to be seen, because he feels he has to.

(I'm assuming he also got taught you turn up earlier rule, but this just a guess).

Stolas genuinely wants to do something Via will enjoy, and he's fine taking Via to stylish occult when she asks.

But didn't get it till she's crying and sad that she wasn't enjoying Loo Loo Land.

"I take it you are.. not having fun." She needs to spell it out. Sarcasm isn't easy for him to interrupt.

His was obviously thought taking his daughter and his lover out to a theme park would be a good way to introduce them.

It's the sort of plot that only works on a novellas. And that's probably when he got it from. (Probably worked great for Gabrielle and Alejandro).

These are examples of him Masking, and not understanding why it didn't work.

Stella's being dangerous to be around = take Via out somewhere for her to have fun to blow off steam.

Wanting your lover and daughter to like eachother = ask IMP to tag along as the completely unnecessary bodyguards.

He doesn't really get that flirty with his affair partner, in front of his kid while going through a divorce isn't a good idea...

He also struggles to understand when his flirting comes off as condescending too. With "ittybity imps like you" or calling him Blitzy in public. He's most likely him coping language from other goeita.

But Stolas is very good at knowing when knowing when Blitz is fine being picked up, when to reassure him with face stokes, or how to calm Blitz down from a panic attack in just a few seconds.

So it's not that he's just never learnt these skills. It's just that some communication skills are harder for him than others.

But if you disagree that fine. 🙂 I just wanted to put down some of my thoughts why I think he could be.