#watching queer media with your queer friends is 10/10

[livinginadumpster]

going to watch dead boy detectives with my friend today which is great bc I get to share my interests and also rewatch it for a third time but unfortunately now I have to be very careful not to post any spoilers bc my friend follows my tumblr

[merfolkplantgay]

Tyria Pride 2024 is coming June 22 and 23!

Hello one and all! Tyria Pride is returning to Tyria for the 9th time! Join us any time next Saturday and Sunday, June 22 and 23, on both EU and NA for an awesome event that takes us all the way from Ebonhawke to Rata Sum, while we raise money for a good cause!

You can also watch it on my twitch at twitch.tv/lelling!

More info below the cut

What is Tyria Pride?

Tyria Pride is a two-day in-game pride march from one corner of (core) Tyria to the other to show support both LGBTQ players and devs, and a fundraiser for Rainbow Railroad, a non-profit organisation which helps queer people escape state-sponsored persecution and violence around the world.

It's tons of fun every year, a ton of streamers join in so there are many ways to follow along even if you're not in game, music guilds hold concerts, and we have some pretty legendary giveaways! It's always blast!

For more info, check out the post on the official forums at tyriapride.com/2024

Fundraiser

Rainbow Railroad is a non-profit that helps LGBTQ+ people get to safety from countries where their lives are at risk. They've done tons of work all over the world, working tirelessly in places like Russia and Afghanistan, and have already sprung into action as a response to the death penalty laws in Uganda, where you could even get up to 10 years in prison if you don't tell the police your child is gay. Rainbow Railroad works tirelessly to save lives, and we're honored to support them in this cause!

To check out the fundraiser, go to tyriapride.com/donate

How to get involved?

There are so many ways you can help out - spread the news, tell your friends and guildies, if you use any social media, share the information, let people know where and when to find the event!

Another way you can help out is by donating in-game prizes! We incentivize donations to the fundraiser by raffling off legendaries, black lion skins, and even artists give away commissions! If you can spare donations, both in-game or out, let me know! My in-game name is Lelling.6795

You can also join us on the Tyria Pride discord for more resources and information: tyriapride.com/discord

[ofmdrecaps]

11/09-10/2024 Daily OFMD Recap

TLDR; David Jenkins; Rhys Darby; More Starfury Republic of Pirates Pictures!; Samba Schutte; Vico Ortiz; Kristian Nairn; Samson Kayo; Guz Khan; Damien Gerard; Dominic Burgess; Articles; LettersToSeaForSeason3; Love Notes;

= David Jenkins =

Chaos dad has broken his silence of several days with a very important question (about his pups).

Source: David's Bsky

He also shared this awesome work by @tabbystardust, which is still one of my faves.

Source: David Jenkins Instagram / Tabby Stardust

= Rhys Darby =

Rhys was interviewed on Flightless Bird with Rhys' old buddy David Ferrier! You can check out the Spotify Episode here!

Source: Rhys' Bsky

Another excerpt from Rhys' 25 year show on his instagram!

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Rhys Darby (@rhysiedarby)

Source: Rhys' Instagram

= Darby Daily Doodle =

Source: Rhys Darby's Free Substack

Source: Rhys Darby's Free Substack

He was also on Craigio On the Radio!

Source: Craigio On The Radio

== More Starfury Pictures! ==

Starfury Conventions posted some more picture from the convention!

Source: Starfury Twitter

= Samba Schutte =

Samba's posting more selfies of his latest work.

Some of the shows that Samba's been doing voice work for have been getting some acknowledgement over at The Velma Awards! First up was Monster High which received the "Best Guest Star Extravaganza".

Jurassic World: Chaos Theory won "Best Queer Relationship That's Just a Plain Ol' Relationship" in the Velma Awards!

And BAFTA Nominations are up! Call of Duty: Black Ops 6 has been nominated for three BAFTAs! Congrats Samba and Damien!

Best Game

Multiplayer

Audio Achievement

Animation

Source: Samba's Instagram

= Kristian Nairn =

Apple Music has been recommending Kristian's new track!

Source: Kristian Nairn's Instagram Stories

= Vico Ortiz =

I'm running a bit late so the Tales of the Trancestors just happened in this weekend! Check out some BTS for it!

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by CHLOE BALDWIN (@chloeglowyflowy)

Source: ChloeGlowyFlowy Instagram

= Samson Kayo =

Samson is out in Abu Dhabi for the F1 Filming.

Source: Samson's Instagram Stories

= Guz Khan =

Guz finished filming the last season of Man Like Mobeen recently, and he spent a few minutes reflecting on watching the last episode <3

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Guz Khan (@guzkhanofficial)

Source: Guz's Instagram

= Damien Gerard =

One of Damien's recent works "Blame!", a short film by Suzanne Roche is an official selection for the 2024 Hollywood Best Indie Film Awards!

Source: Damien's Instagram Stories

= Dominic Burgess =

Have a lot of extra cash and want to dine with Dominic and help out a Charity at the same time? Well good news! You can! You can bid on a chance to dine with Dominic at this Charity Auction!

Source: Dominic's Bsky

== Articles ==

Our friends over at @adoptourcrew have been keeping us posted with lots of articles about OFMD. It's nice to see the show being featured in so much media even a year later after S2 ended!

Source: Adopt Our Crew's Bsky

== LettersToSeaForSeason3 ==

More helpful information about the LettersToSeaForSeason3 to netflix! Mailing window cheatsheet:

US: 12/31/24 - 01/07/25

Europe: 12/26/24 - 01/02/25

Other International Locations: 12/22/24 - 12/29/24

Source: Aproperpirate's Twitter

== Fan Spotlight ==

= Never Left Podcast =

Source: NeverLeft Podcast Spotify

= OFMD Colouring Pages/Wrapping Paper! =

Our fabulous crewmate @patchworkpiratebear is back! They've made wrapping paper for the holidays! Check out these adorable patterns! If you want some high res versions to download you can do on on the Repo.

Source: PatchworkPirateBears Bsky

== Love Notes ==

Hey there lovelies. I have been having a bit of week so I'll be brief so I can make sure to get this out tonight. We are coming to the end of the year, and I hope very much that you are being kind to yourself. Please oh please give yourself a hug tonight, drink some water, or some tea, and have one of your favorite treats. The new week is starting soon and you'll need your strength. Be good to yourselves <3 Sending hugs your way.

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Dominee Calderon (@selfloverainbow)

Source: Self Love Rainbow

[rosearcanaeum]

(Ten) people I'd like to know better

Tagged by: @screechingfromthevoid <3

Last song: Far From Me by Chase Noseworthy is just on repeat. Sad boy Vax and perfect for my range!

Favorite color: it really depends on context honestly. But the most general is soft pink.

Last book: 😅 I've been struggling through Nein Eyes of Lucien for a while.... more honestly its Call of the Netherdeep and Explorers Guide to Wildemount. I truely read far more fanfic than anything else.

Last movie: I watched Night at the Museum for the first time this week. It was waaaaaay better than I ever imagined. I knew it was good and funny. It was also incredibly sincere and I can't get enough of that.

Last show: speaking of sincere, I'm about halfway through Frieren: beyond journey's end. And holy shit! I have never seen any media with a character who views and interacts with death the way i do. Its pretty heavy as shows go but its trustworthy. (I have a hard time with new stuff most of the time. Cr is one exception and this is too apparently)

Sweet/spicy/savory: no joke I've eaten salt before lol. But i prefer combos or all 3. Sweet spicy is underrated.

Relationship status: I live with my queer platonic partner. Its still just buckwild to me. As a kid i hated the idea of living with a partner cuz i didnt want so many aspects of what i was told that looked like. But hey guess what, y'all can decide what your relationships look like. We have separate rooms, are not sexually involved, rarely even touch tbh. And we love each other very much and want to grow old together in a house with cats.

They're touch averse and I'm sensory seeking. My fun Sunday night (out dancing) is their nightmare. But because we are who we are and how we understand and communicate in our relationship we rely on each other for only things that are available. I'll tell them all the dumb shit i see and do on Grindr and we'll sit on the couch and knit together.

Also my brain nearly explodes everytime I realize not only do we do couple stuff, we have couple friends we do couple stuff with. 18 year old me would have never believed you if you told them.

Last thing I looked up: I looked up the caffeine content of the thai tea concentrate I got my partner to see if i could try it. And shockingly i should be able to. Still gonna eat first and be careful though.

Current obsession: I'm pretty spread out rn, unusually. Ive got a sweater im excited about. And I'm on my 3rd attempt at a dorym water bottle sleeve I'm designing. This one should work now. Honestly dorym is probably no. 1 on my list. I shipped that back in exu, along with a bunch of stuff cuz I'm a delightful multishipper. So i feel particularly excited about dorym finally taking off. But also that while dorian was always looking to orym if anything else had come along he was there for the ride. I love robbie so so much. He is such a good character storyteller!

Looking forward to: today im hanging with 2 friends im usually in a larger group with so thats gonna be fun. Looking forward to baking off the beef wellingtons i made for my partner for xmas. And im looking forward to being able to work full time again in the new year. Ive been on part time for health reasons and stayed because i was spending hours on the phone fighting for insurance coverage. Now that both a done i can work more. I love my job and its a particular kind of boredom that i get when i cant work. Lol speaking of, im looking forward to the holidays being over. The office closures normally screw us but now im only working thurs fri for the next 2 weeks and I'll have try really hard to keep busy enough. At least my partner has 2 of the days off with me!

No pressure tags; not sure I can get to 10 and please dont feel obligated but I'd love to see yours (if you havent already. Ive been avoiding spoilers a lot recently so may not have seen it): @vigilante-apologist @standbyyourmantis @soedblackchaos @forestthechonkykitty @corrrvid @local-redhead-bookworm and luddles looks like you did already do this.

Thats all i got. If you see this and want to do it, consider yourself tagged!

[the-conversation-pod]

Second Rate Second Chance: The Letdowns of Love is Better the Second Time Around and Living With Him

And we're back! We brought our good friend @twig-tea back to talk about how two Japanese BLs should have been 10s but absolutely flopped for us. This week we're talking about second chance romances, long-term pining, and their roles in queer narratives. Join us to break down what it's like to watch a show fall apart in real time.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Intro 00:02:38 - Love Is Better The Second Time Around: What Worked 00:13:31 - Love Is Better The Second Time Around: What Didn’t Work 00:23:32 - Love Is Better The Second Time Around: Final Thoughts and Ratings 00:26:54 - Living With Him: How it Started 00:36:33 - Living With Him: Where it Went Wrong 00:44:40 - Living With Him: Final Thoughts and Ratings 00:52:03 - Why The Queerness Matters

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 - Intro

Ben 

And we're back. This week, we're gonna be unpacking two Japanese shows that really let us down this season in our Second Rate Second Chance episode. We've brought our friend twig-tea back to the podcast. 

Say hi, Twig. 

Twig 

Hi everyone. 

Ben 

We brought Twig back on because Twig and I have been watching Japanese BL and Japanese cinema for a long time. We have seen a lot of the good and bad of Japanese BL, and unfortunately both Love is Better the Second Time Around and Living with Him fall into the bad column for us. 

We both have a genuine fondness for the way that Japanese teams often execute queerness with a lot of approachable specificity that really lets both of us connect to the queer truth of these characters. 

That's personally important for me because, beyond these shows kind of fumbling the bag, they also undercut the queer narratives they're telling with some of the mistakes they've made. This is something that's becoming a burgeoning issue for me and Twig in our discussions about the state of global BL, and so we're going to also get into that towards the end. 

00:02:38 - Love Is Better The Second Time Around: What Worked

NiNi 

Let's start with Love is Better the Second Time Around. Ben, what is Love is Better the Second Time Around about?

Ben 

Love is Better the Second Time Around is a second chance Japanese BL about two guys in their earlyish 30s who were very close in their teens when they were in school together, broke up, and are now running into each other again as a result of work. 

Our main character's name is Miyata Akihiro. He is an editor for some sort of business and economics magazine and he is assigned to work with this writer and professor, who happens to be his childhood boyfriend. They were supposed to be very serious, and then they had a really painful breakup at a crucial moment. Iwanaga Takashi has clearly still been in love with Miyata this whole time and is flirting relentlessly with this man. They work through some, but not all of their issues and are able to start going out together again before the show absolutely shits the bed. 

Before we get to that portion of it,Twig! Walk us through the early developments when we were initially responding positively to the show and what we were really dialed in on. 

Twig 

The first four episodes of this show were some of my favorite television this year. Which is why I’m so upset about the last two, but we'll get there.

When they meet each other as adults, the messiness of their past is established right away, and you can feel the tension between them. The grudge that Miyata holds is really fun to watch. Iwanaga is a real flirt. He leans into the sort of playboy personality that was also really fun to watch. 

It immediately felt adult. Iwanaga admitted to having casual sex with his assistant. Miyata made fun of him for it. They had a kiss in that first episode. It was so good. Miyata decided that he was an adult now, and he wasn't gonna be pushed around by his senpai from high school anymore. The assistant, Shiraishi, was a bitch. A really fun bitch to watch. [laughs]

Ben 

[laughs] He really was. He was a real bitch for like, the first four or five episodes. I loved it. 

NiNi 

I enjoyed that. 

Ben 

He was played by Takamatsu Aloha, who was in Tokyo in April Is… playing Ren there. It was really fun to see him again. 

NiNi 

He really nailed the whole bitchy, “Who is this new person? Why are they around this person that I am perceiving to be my man? I need to get rid of this person quick, fast. What is the fastest way that I can do that?” Mm, loved it. It was so, so bitchy. Perfect. 

Twig 

And it played so well to what felt like the point of the story, which was that the main characters are older now, and to have this younger person around acting younger really helped highlight the fact that these older characters are a little bit more mature and so they're making slightly more mature decisions. [laughs] I won't say very much more mature, but a little bit. He actually worked really well to help emphasize that part of the story. 

And we learned early on that Miyata was trying to get engaged; we also see him [laughs] fail at it so badly. That scene is one of my favorites, where he's opening the ring box and Fukuda-san, she won't let him propose. She keeps closing it in his face. 

Ben 

That was honestly one of the most enjoyable meta moments about BL, where the girl who doesn't deserve this sees a very bad proposal coming and physically restrains [laughs] restrains [NiNi laughs] the main character from opening the ring box so he can't propose. 

NiNi 

It was super funny. So good. She was just like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. 

Twig 

It was perfect. And then, of course Miyata then called Iwanaga to complain about not being allowed to propose, which was perfect and gave more opportunities for extreme flirting. 

I loved so much that these two characters started having sex again while Miyata was still mad and still unwilling to be in a relationship with Iwanaga. Miyata confirming that the sex did not mean anything. 

NiNi 

I loved that he was just like, “I wondered if you were good at this. I'm so mad at you right now.” [NiNi and Twig laugh] That was so funny!

Ben 

That was also kinda hot, let's be real. 

Twig 

Yes! Ben and I had a whole conversation about how finally a scene with tension in yukatas pays off and we see people actually have sex. 

Ben 

Let me tell you. The real sign that you've been in Japanese BL for a while is when you see two fuckin’ boys in yukata sharing a room together and you know no one's gonna fuck. 

Twig 

Right? [laugh]

Ben 

There's a fun one for the listeners. Sound off in the comments. List all of the Japanese BL that put those boys in yukata and then did not deliver. 

Twig 

But we got it in this one, finally. And we also got that iconic line, “If you love me, don't apologize.” Which is also, whoo. 

NiNi 

I did enjoy that. “Do not apologize for this because I'm ‘bout to have a good ass time.” 

Ben 

I wanna do a quick follow up on one of the comments you made about the maturity of these characters relative to Shiraishi in the story. This is a moment where Shiraishi intentionally doesn't deliver a message about an updated deadline to Iwanaga for the column he's writing for Miyata’s magazine. And it causes a real problem because now Miyata has to go rush to Iwanaga, who was away on a work trip, and get him to hurriedly write this article. It leads to an important sex scene, which is great for us and the yukata delivery that we were very happy about. But I really like that Miyata is so done with Shiraishi. When he finally confronts him about it, he's like, “I don't care if you don't like me, but you're fucking up other people’s lives when you do shit like this.” He wasn't angry at him, the just jaded disappointment cut that man to the fucking bone. He was not ready for it. 

Twig 

It both illustrated Miyata being more mature and also wasn't letting Shiraishi get to him, that you're not actually a threat, but you're now a problem, so you need to stop. It really highlighted how young and petty he was. 

Ben 

I really love the way you sum that up. “You're not a threat, you're a problem” is so succinct. And that's really what hurt him in that moment, he realized he had really fucked up. There's no winning at that point. There's only the huge loss of face on his part. 

Twig 

Exactly. 

And then we got Miyata jerking off to Iwanaga’s face in the shower. 

Ben 

It was really accessible sexuality in this show that was actually really surprising for us because we've been dealing with a lot of cutesy BL lately, it feels like, so it was really refreshing to have these guys have access to their own sexuality and be able to express that and act on it. 

Twig 

There are ways in which sex is handled in BL. Sometimes it's held back to add tension to a story, but it's often also done in a way that makes the story feel puritanical. From episode 1, we knew that they wanted to fuck. By episode 3 they were fucking. 

That just felt so refreshing. Yeah, these are grown ass adults who have had a previous relationship before. They know each other, so there's some level of familiarity there. They're attracted to each other. They want to bone down and so they do. That seems perfectly reasonable. It's actually ridiculous it doesn't happen more often. 

NiNi 

From the moment that Iwanaga sees Miyata again, it's game on. He's like, “Okay, this? This is happening. I don't care what it's going to take for this to happen, but this is absolutely happening.” 

Twig 

He bought that man cufflinks. 

NiNi 

He did what needed to be done, absolutely. He was not playing around. He decided that this is what they're doing and he made it happen. 

Ben

So I think what I really wanna highlight here about this particular show with the second chance component is we were actually super dialed in on how seriously the show was taking that part of the premise. Iwanaga comes from a very wealthy family and he was dealing with some shit and he was like, we're gonna run away. Normal, stupid kid shit. The two of them planned to meet at the train station and get out of there and go make it in Tokyo. A stupid character we'll talk about later complicates the situation by convincing Miyata that Iwanaga is just toying with him. Miyata is hurt and embarrassed by this, and does not show up to go on the train. The two of them end up separated by Iwanaga’s family circumstances, and that was their big break. 

So when they meet up again, Miyata has real beef with this man. And the show doesn't downplay the seriousness of Miyata’s hurt. That was such a real relief. If the characters have done real harm to each other, we do need to focus on the reconciliation that's critical for this relationship to work this time, and that was something that this show was handling so seriously. Even though Iwanaga wasn't actually giving Miyata all the things that we, the audience, were like, he needs to do these things if it's gonna work. His charm was enough that Miyata was wanting for them to complete the reconciliation. 

We don't get second chance like this where the breakup was actually the fault of one of the guys, even if it's complicated by familial homophobia stuff. They were serious about each other at the time, but Iwanaga was doing this playboy shit even then. And so Miyata can't feel secure with him because it's the same bullshit again. I like that their 30 year old selves were not fundamentally different from their younger selves. They were just more experienced. 

Twig

The last thing on my list of when I was still really vibing with the show is the “feelings-off,” as I like to call it. Miyata challenged Iwanaga, “You never felt as strongly about me as I felt about you” and Iwanaga said, “Try me.” And so Miyata challenges him, “Did you ever cry about me into your pillow? Did you think about me when I wasn't there? Do you jerk off to me, ‘cause I did.” He gives him four or five things to say, “Were you this embarrassing about me, because I haven't seen you be embarrassing about me.” And Iwanaga says, “Yes. I was.” And that's finally the thing that allows Miyata to give him another chance. 

00:13:31 - Love Is Better The Second Time Around: What Didn’t Work

NiNi 

So we build all that up. We're having a great time. Everybody's vibing with the show. And then it all turns. 

From the time that the family started showing up, that was when the show went, to me, off the rails. I was just like, all of this is interesting, but not the same story that they were telling all the time. 

Ben 

It was confusing. We were in this really solid second chance romance arc where we were focused on the guys rebuilding their relationship with each other. And then it feels like they didn't know what to do with the guys once the “fuck you, don't touch me” barrier falls away. They immediately complicate that by trying to reintroduce Iwanaga's family trauma as this sudden barrier. 

This is the common theme with the two shows that we’re gonna talk about, introducing contrived bullshit barriers to keep the characters apart and fuck up their ability to talk to each other when the entire arc is built upon these guys improving the way they talk to each other. That's the real fundamentally unsatisfying aspect of all of this. I'm usually a defender for the way people interact in Japanese cinema. We talk about trying to bring a level of cultural competency to watching Asian media, having been raised in the west. Respect the way that these cultures handle some of their communication protocols when they're engaging with each other. We talk about respecting the way honorifics work in these languages and how that impacts the way these people talk about each other. Listening to some of the tones they use with each other, about how certain terms immediately signify things, and these things don't always translate well. You just have to be able to hear and understand these things. I don't really wanna give these two shows that we're gonna to continue talking about here a lot of credit for this. 

This show was in the middle of a really satisfying second chance romance arc of rebuilding a relationship and then completely throws that out the fuckin’ window. Iwanaga is now the male scion of a wealthy family that disowned him for being a homo, but now needs him to come back because his sister is like, “Yeah, fuck all this Japanese nonsense. I'm marrying a foreign man and we're gonna r-u-n-n-o-f-t. That's fine as an arc on its own, but I kinda wish we had like an extra episode or two for these guys to move further along their arc before we introduced that, and it was doubly frustrating because Iwanaga immediately regresses in a way that is not satisfying because he isn't our main character. If Miyata was the one who was suddenly regressing, we have been in that man's head. We were in the shower when he was beating his dick to this dude. We get it. We know what this man is going through. So if he were the one to regress, we would be down with it. We would understand the emotional complexities that he was facing. But the difficulty with Iwanaga being the one to suddenly back off in the middle of all this family nonsense is we never understood the family nonsense. So reintroducing that with this shit heel of a cousin who really wants to fuck Iwanaga was just so deeply unsatisfying, and honestly kind of offensive, because they don't even dwell on it. They're relying on the shorthand of us just going, “Well, they're gay, right? Homophobia. Whatchu gonna do?” 

NiNi 

[laughs] What I was gathering the story was leading up to the family coming in at that point in time, is that at this point in the story, maybe their romantic feelings had gotten ahead of their commitment. So they're feeling a lot of things, but they haven't talked about a lot of things. They haven't decided what they're gonna do or who they're going to be to each other. They're just sitting in the moment enjoying being together, enjoying having sex and all that kind of stuff. But they haven't really decided what they're gonna be. And then all this family shift comes in so you're just like, oh, okay, they're out over their skis. They don't know what they're doing. All this stuff is happening at exactly the wrong time because it's throwing them back into a history that they haven't really dealt with. Okay, this is good. 

But then instead of focusing on that, they focus it towards Iwanaga’s family and what actually happened back then and how it affects Iwanaga, and that doesn't really work? I don't care about that at this point in time. I want to know what's happening with Miyata and Iwanaga’s relationship. 

Twig 

I think there's room for where we could have cared about it, but we weren't given time or space. There's a story there of Iwanaga so alienated from his family that he wanted to run away with his boyfriend, and they found out about it, and he took all of the blame and didn't let anyone know who Miyata was so that he wouldn't get in trouble. And so his family disowned him. He was cut out of the family registry and cut out of his family’s life. There's a really tragic story there and we're given almost no time to sit with that or care about it. His hurt isn't given any time. 

Instead, we just find out that Iwanaga made the decision to let Miyata think he was the butt of a joke and stay heartbroken for years, decade, rather than admit that Iwanaga had family problems when they were kids. And then we see him be willing to let Miyata go again for the exact same reason as adults. And so all of the work we'd seen Miyata do to process what had happened in their relationship in the past and decide to trust Iwanaga again. Iwanaga betrayed that trust, frankly, by not allowing himself to be vulnerable with Miyata. We find out in the very last episode that Miyuata actually fell in love with Iwanaga in a vulnerable moment, he saw him crying alone on the pier, and that was where his feelings turned to love. So we know that Miyata cares about Iwanaga as a person who is not perfect, and he wants Iwanaga to be less cool. And Iwanaga has not learned the lesson. 

So, I left this series feeling like I can't trust this relationship to continue in any other way than exactly the way it's happened twice before. It's very frustrating. 

Ben 

There’s this moment in, like, episode 5 or 6 where Miyata goes and confronts Shiraishi, who decides to stop being a bitch at the final moment. Why? 

Twig 

I was disappointed. 

Ben 

He should have been a bitch the whole time. [laughs]

Twig 

I just needed to see this man be mean to Miyata one more time and they didn't give me that. 

Ben 

That's the point, because Iwanaga never has that important vulnerable moment with Miyata. The emotional reveal has to come from the not-rival, which is not satisfying.

You know what? I'm not done bitching. Let's talk about what the show thought it was doing with the cousin. I feel like the cousin is meant here to be the stand in for what trying to be queer and closeted inside of this family does to you. So we get this vile man in Sugimoto who is just so gross and playing these goofy, manipulative games trying to achieve some sort of position for himself or his branch of the family. Is what I think they thought they were doing? It did not land for me at all. 

Twig

Yeah. At some point, it seemed like we were supposed to believe that Sugimoto was secretly on Iwanaga and Miyata’s side the whole time. And he was, like, testing them and that test was supposed to be some sort of thing that they should be grateful for. I was like, no. 

Ben

I'm gonna do that the next time I get called on some bullshit. You passed the test!

[all laugh]

NiNi

I legit don't understand, like I actually don't narratively understand what happened there. Not just in terms of what they thought they were doing thematically, but narratively that whole part of the story is so confusing. 

Ben

NiNi is correct. The first four episodes we were like, “This is a banger. This is gonna be a 10. We gotta tell all the other girlies you need to watch this.” Episode 5 happens, we were like, “Whoa, what the fuck?” And then by the time episode 6 ends, we're like, “Never mind, girls. You don't need to follow us in this one.” 

Twig

Shiraishi and Sugimoto have the same role and arc in that final episode. 

Ben

Like, we already had a bitch. We didn't need another one!

Twig

Two bitches is too many bitches. [laughs]

Ben

And they didn't even team up and have, like, nasty sex or something. 

Twig

Oh my God, I could have forgiven everything if that had happened. 

NiNi

First of all, “Two bitches is too many bitches” is perfect, but the other thing is it feels like they thought they needed to have a bitch in the past and a bitch in the present. 

Twig

Do you want me to tell you my theory? 

Ben

Oh, bestie, I want to hear all of your theories. Go for it. 

NiNi

Tell us. Tell us. Spill the tea. 

Twig

So I tried really hard to find the manga for this because I needed to know what had gone wrong in the adaptation and I couldn't find it. If anyone out there has it, please send it to me. What I do know is that there are three volumes and that it's still ongoing. One of the things that Japan likes to do, usually one of its worst mistakes when they do an adaptation, is they try to squeeze together at least two volumes into what should be one volume series adaptation. And so we get one really good arc, and then an entire volume or two squeezed into the very end, feeling rushed because they are rushed. So that's my totally uneducated, but based on experience, guess about why this felt like two different shows and two different arcs. Because it probably was? 

00:23:32 - Love Is Better The Second Time Around: Final Thoughts and Ratings

Ben 

Unfortunately, that is gonna end it for this show. I really want you all, if you've taken the time to listen to us, to really understand that…end of episode 4, we were like 10s, 10s all around. This show is doing some great shit. There's some hot messes here that need to be resolved, but the way that we're being led through this with these characters, the way they're talking to each other, the way we're in it with them was so, so satisfying. Before this show shits the bed. 

I am a queer cinema critic who really loves BL and the role it fulfills in the global queer cinema landscape. My goal is to connect other queer people to meaningful stories that they can enjoy. And sometimes that means that we have to say a show really fucked up, guys. If you do watch it, please understand that we loved the show for four episodes and then it transitions in a way that is not satisfying at all. But the first four episodes were still some of the best shit we've seen in a long time. And with that in mind, let's rate this motherfucker! 

NiNi? 

NiNi 

I get to go first. Oh me, oh my. 

Ben 

We love J-BL, so you get to rate without us giving our ratings. [laugh]

NiNi 

I will give this a 6.5. Disappointing me at the end is always gonna hurt me more than something that was wobbly from the start. 

Ben 

Twig-tea? 

Twig 

I gave it a 7. After I first finished it I gave it an 8, but the longer it sat with me, the madder I got. So I’ve downgraded it. 

Ben 

It is also a 7 for me, because where this show goes wrong is very obvious. I think BL viewers would learn a lot about the genre from watching this and understanding where some of us have come from. With that in mind, I'm giving this show a 6.9 from The Conversation because the sex was good in this show. 

[NiNi and Twig laugh]

NiNi 

Producer privilege rearing its head, I see you, I see you. 

Twig 

We didn't talk about how pretty Iwanaga is. 

Ben 

You know, we have not simped over these men. Let's talk about how fuckin’ beautiful Furuya Robin and Hasegawa Makoto were. Holy shit! We have needed some older guys in J-BL—older being 30, for fucks sake. [NiNi laughs] But these guys are fucking beautiful. 

Twig 

He put on his reading glasses and I [goofy voice] swooned. 

NiNi 

Hasegawa Makoto was a delight to look at. 

Ben 

Holy shit! As we're recording this, it is Furuya Robin’s birthday. Happy birthday, sir. 

Twig 

Happy birthday! 

NiNi 

Happy birthday, indeed. Keep aging like fine wine. 

I'm so mad, though, this show was at 10 right up until, like episode 5, and then it went from a 10 to 6.5. 

Ben 

It really was. NiNi’s rating is not off. If I didn't think the show was useful to talk about for people, I would have given it probably a 6.

NiNi 

Love is Better the Second Time Around gets a 6.9 from The Conversation, recommended with severe caveats. 

00:26:54 - Living With Him: How it Started

NiNi

Let's move on to the next show that disappointed us: Living With Him. Ben, what is Living With Him about?

Ben

[deep sigh] Living With Him is about how we will never get the roommates BL that we deserve. [NiNi laughs] All of the energy that we were supposed to get out of roommates BL was lost to the Philippines during the quarantine period. We blew all of that energy on lockdown stories. Goddammit! 

Living With Him is about two college freshmen who are going to live together because they were once childhood friends, and their moms think it might be financially beneficial and emotionally beneficial for the two of them to reconnect, since they're both going away to start school away from home and they would like for them to have someone to live with that they also know. We're primarily following Natsukawa Ryota, who is so excited to be going to college. He has dyed his hair brown. He is no longer gonna be doing house chores and taking care of his little sisters. He is ready to spread his little wings and figure out who his actual personality is going to be. He is living with his childhood friend, Tanaka Kazuhito, who is obviously gay and obviously has had a huge crush on Natsukawa for a long time. Kazuhito is also dealing with some major changes in his life—he was a national competing level baseball player in high school who can no longer play baseball due to a shoulder injury. It's very clear that Kazuhito has feelings for Natsukawa, and Natsukawa picks up on this fairly quickly, particularly because all of Kazuhito's friends are being real shady about it. 

And I was really excited about what this show was going to be, because this was about two childhood friends reconciling and dealing with this major thing between them. What was really enjoyable about this show—now that we covered the premise of two childhood friends moving together, one of them has a crush, the other one picks up on it—is they talk about this crush in episode 3, and we were primed for the rest of the show to deal with this crush being in the open and reconciling what that change in your relationship is gonna look like. 

Where this show goes wrong. After episode 3, episode 4 is them being awkward around each other—a completely reasonable reaction. They come to some sort of agreement by the end of that, and decide they’re going to go on a trip together in episode 5, but they do nothing with that. Episode 6 is a useless fuckin’ flashback episode about shit we already knew to lead into the seventh episode where Kazuhito decides to preemptively reject himself for Natsukawa's benefit, who suddenly can't open his fuckin’ mouth. Into stupid forced separation nonsense for a whole fuckin’ episode and then Japanese track star run for no reason, don't link up with each other, and then pick up episode 8 not dealing with the failed Japanese track star BL run. And we end on this perfunctory note where they wanna suddenly get us back on track in the finale. 

Gone on an extensive ramble there. I apologize for you having to edit that, NiNi.

NiNi

I was just lettin’ you cook, fam.

Ben

I would like for you to unpack your experience coming behind us and catching up with our disappointment.

NiNi

As usual, when it comes to the shorter BLs, I like to binge, so I started Living With Him loving everything about it, loving the emotional core of what it is. One of the big things that really got to me is that they do, throughout the show, have flashbacks to their childhood, and there's a lot of good The Knowing content in there. I was just like, “Oh yes, this is so good. He's been feeling this way for such a long time. We're gonna delve into that. It's gonna be so good. It's gonna be so emotional.” [sigh]

And then they don't really do anything with that. For five episodes, the show had me. Kazuhito is teasing Ryota, saying-not-saying the thing. Ryota basically figures it out with the help of Kazuhito’s friends. He's now starting to think, “Okay, well, what is this?” To have a conversation about it. And then you're getting into episode 4 and episode 5, where they’re turning these things around in their heads, and then the last thing that happens in episode 5 that I really responded to, they have like a physical movement where he tells Kazuhito “You can hug me,” basically. And that moment was so heavy. It was so good. And I'm looking forward to having the outgrowth of that moment. And instead we get a fuckin’ flashback. [laughs] And then we get weird sort of casual-homophobia-not-homophobia from Kazuhito's mother.

Ben

Worse, we got compulsory heterosexuality.

NiNi

And then it's like that didn't happen in the end like, okay, that's a digression that we went on. We don't know why we did that. We're going back to the main story now. But now I've lost the emotional thread. They're doing all this stuff and it's cute or whatever, they decided they're going to be together, great, but it's not landing anymore. They've lost me. They've broken the tension. They've broken the emotional thread. I don't feel it anymore. 

Okay. So, Ben and I have both talked a lot. Twig you step in here. What are your thoughts about this? How did you feel that the show went wrong? What did you think the show did well?

Ben

Walk us through your process, Twig.

Twig

It’s so, so bad. [laughs]

Ben

Walk us through it, bestie.

Twig

All right. Okay. I was so invested in these two. We start with Natsukawa and the show sets up so well that he's excited to be on his own, and he's unsure about his childhood friend Kazuhito being there. Kazuhito is immediately weird in ways that throw Natsukawa off, and which the audience, or at least the gay audience, immediately clock as, “Oh, this man is gay and catty about it.” NiNi, you called it teasing. Oh, it’s more than that. I was having so much fun with Kazuhito and the way he was like, “Mmm. I wonder what it could be. Why would girls always be unhappy with me as their boyfriend? I wonder.” This man. [laughs]

NiNi

It was so good. He was basically like, “I am trying to tell you in every way possible that I am A) gay and B) into you, and you are just not picking this up, sir.”

Twig

And he was mean about it in a way that wasn't mean mean, but when they go on their adorable not-date, which was some of the best domesticity we've had in a while, Kazuhito says to Natsukawa, “It's all right, you wouldn't get it.” The way he was just calling him out for being obliviously heteronormative without actually calling him out, it was beautiful. And the best part about that was he was wrong. Natsukawa did figure it out, and so Kazuhito being so sure that Natsukawa was too straight to get it, actually blew up in his face in a way that I loved. 

The way that they were so honest with each other and the way that they cared about their relationship, this is one of the things that this show does really right about friends to lovers. Even though they're a little bit unsure with each other cause they haven't talked in a while, they still really care about this relationship between the two of them, and they don't wanna fuck that up. But rather than not fuck it up by holding it all in, they actually talk to each other about it ‘cause both of these men have an understanding that communication is actually important. Both of them say to each other at one point or another, “I think you've misunderstood something that I said. I'm gonna clarify that.” Or, “I said that that was a joke, but I was actually lying about that. I did mean it.” The fact that we got to a place where Kazuhito owned his feelings and said, “Listen, tell me if you're uncomfortable, but I'm happy to just keep things as they are” and Natsukawa immediately empathized with him and said, “Wow, this must have been so hard for you. Is there anything I can do to make this better for you?” That was beautiful. It was such a loving moment, even though it wasn't romantic yet? Their relationship was so good and then the show fucked it up so badly. [laughs]

The other thing I loved about this show, before I move on to why I'm so mad at it, was the way they used the friendship group to establish that Kazuhito had clearly talked about this man before, when he wasn't around, [laugh] to the point where his friends recognize who he was and how important he was to Kazuhito. So they met Natsukawa—they treated him like he was a minor celebrity. Like, “This is Natsukawa?”

NiNi

He reminded me of What Did You Eat Yesterday? When what's-her-name finally meets Kenji.

Twig 

Oh yes! Yes.

Ben

I would like for you to note that NiNi is the one who brought up What Did You Eat Yesterday? this time, not me. [Twig and Ben laugh]

NiNi

Duly noted. It's delightful. He doesn't even have to introduce himself. Yoshida is like, “Oh, you must be Natsukawa.” And he's like, “What?” and she's like, “Shhh shh shh shh shhhh. Don't worry about how I know that.”

Twig 

Kazuhito gets called away and he's like, “Come on, guys. Let's go there.” And they’re like, “No, we're good. We're gonna stay and talk to this man.” [Twig and NiNi laugh]

NiNi

The gossip is here! Why would you go where you are, this is where the good stuff is.

Twig

[sigh] And then.

00:36:33 - Living With Him: Where it Went Wrong

Ben

And then! Take us in, Twig.

Twig

Okay, so, episode 4 happened, and I did appreciate sitting with the awkwardness after the intensity of those emotional conversations and the uncertainty of what things were gonna be like now. That actually felt true. But the problem was it started to feel slow. This is where I think it started to drag. 

Episode 5 was clearly filler. We go camping. Okay, there shoulda been a kiss. I'm still mad about it. What it seemed like they were trying to do with the camping episode was establish some of Natsukawa's insecurities. He wants to seem a little more competent and cool in front of Kazuhito. That already felt a bit weird to me because in their apartment he's the one who cooks, so he already has established himself as someone who does things that Kazuhito can't. He also in the flashbacks, in the earlier episodes to their childhood, was established as the one in Kazuhito's life who didn't see him as perfect. Who liked him as he was and as not perfect. So for him to suddenly be caught up in Kazuhito as a perfect guy didn't feel true to the character we'd gotten to that point?

NiNi

I felt like this episode was really about Natsukawa trying to flirt. I feel like Natsukawa has certain confidences, but the insecurities that Natsukawa is dealing with here are about his romantic potential. It's not that he sees himself as smaller or less, but it's more like when it comes to romance and sex and all those things he doesn't feel as confident in that way.

Twig

I agree with you, which is why it was so weird that so much of the camping thing was about how Natsukawa learned all of these camping things so that he could give Kazuhito a good time and then couldn't get the lighter started and so they had to rely on these girls. It felt like they were focusing on the wrong parts of him that he didn't have confidence in.

NiNi

But if he's trying to flirt with Kazuhito in this way, then maybe it's more like, “I'm trying to flirt and I'm failing at it” kind of thing.

Ben

See and this is where things could have been really interesting. Here is the problem: Natsukawa wanting to take care of Kazuhito as his primary way to respond to their situation made total sense. The only skills he's really developed outside of studying are domestic chores. Being unable to deliver on that front when they went camping was totally reasonable and there was something potentially interesting there, but they don't really deal with that properly. There's this actually kind of satisfying moment at the end where he says plainly, “I want you to rely on me more,” that lands pretty smoothly from where we were in episode 3, where he was like, “You must have been holding this for a long time. How do I help you?” And ending on “rely on me more, dummy,” was absolutely fine. 

The big problem for me was episode 6. If the thematic point and the thrust of episode 5 is “rely on me more, dummy” the byproduct and answer to that in episode 6 should have been that man waking up and saying, “I've always relied on you.” But instead, the show backs off from them entirely by having Kazuhito break up in the next episode because they don't know what the fuck else to do. I guess. The natural response to that fucking long-ass flashback telling us that this man has always thought about this man, that he has defined a huge part of his adolescence, was for him to wake up and say it. And he doesn't. This leads to the finale episode where finally he says what he has to say and Kazuhito's like, “This is the happiest moment of my life. Let's dead fish kiss” and I'm like, absolutely not! This man has been horny for 10 years. I need to see that being released now. 

The thing about me with this is, like—Shan and I joke about this. We are real haters. But like a big part about being a hater is being a lover! You love these shows. You love what they do really well, and where they fuck up is so obvious sometimes. The obvious fuck up of this show is Ryota saying clearly “rely on me more” and then Natsukawa not talking to him for basically two episodes after that, the end of episode 5 is a very clear request from one of our romantic leads to the other that the other romantic lead does not respond to. The guy who has been in love with this man the whole fucking time receives a direct request from him. The guy who was apparently the reason why he was able to get his fucking life back together, and he does not respond to that clear stated request, and because he can't respond to that, it shuts down Natsukawa's arc for the rest of the show about who is he beyond caring for other people. It's so deeply unsatisfying.

NiNi

Twig, in terms of where it breaks down for you, is that similar to where Ben's talking about or do you have a different place where things start to break down?

Twig

Episode 6 is definitely the waste of an entire episode, just illustrating things that they'd already told us through conversation. Show, not tell, but there's no point in showing us what you already told us. That's a waste of time. Natsukawa, his arc got completely fucked up by all of the wasted space in this show. That's why it feels so confusing and unsatisfying, because the order of what he goes through internally no longer makes any sense. 

What we see him do in this show is he starts confused, uncertain about what's going on with Kazuhito. He has a realization about what's going on with Kazuhito, and they have the conversation about it. He has time to reflect on it and think about what his feelings are. He accepts his feelings. We see him realize that he likes Kazuhito, he wants to be with him. Then we see him hesitate about that, “Because I like you, it's actually really hard to tell you,” which is not how they've been communicating to date, but okay. And then he goes from that to concern about homophobia, which makes no sense to have as a thing to happen after you've already gone through acceptance and hesitation. And then it gets resolved. It was a confusing clusterfuck because it didn't make any sense, and the only reason why his arc happens that way is because they had those two filler episodes of his acceptance and hesitation in the middle that weren't in the manga. I did read it to figure out what the hell went wrong.

Ben

Twig, walk us through the experience you had reading the manga to get some clarity.

Twig

A lot of the things that I thought didn't necessarily work or I was confused by in the show, worked perfectly in the manga because of the order in which they happen and the lack of space between them. Natsukawa’s arc in the manga is, he reunites with Kazuhito, is confused by what's going on with Kazuhito, he has a realization and the conversation with Kazuhito about it. He's left to think about it. He immediately goes from that to his concerns about homophobia and then it's resolved. 

So all of the moments where he realizes he feels good with Kazuhito, he wants him in his life, he misses him when he's not there, those happen after the concern about homophobia. It made a complete difference. Things that I hated in the show worked perfectly well in the manga because they made sense in terms of an order of events and the emotional arcs that people went through. It was a really good illustration of understanding the overarching arc you're telling and not just the moments, because they kept all of the moments of the manga, they're all in the show, but by moving them around a little bit and adding so much in between them, it completely changed how they landed for the audience.

00:44:40 - Living With Him: Final Thoughts and Ratings

NiNi 

The show feels like it wanted to touch on a lot of things, but it also didn't want to touch on a lot of things, so we get some of Natsukawa’s arc regarding the way that he feels about having spent his teenage years looking after his sisters and some of the things that have come out of that. His family is a decently big part of the show. And there's some things there with his mom and how his mom may feel guilty and like she needs to make up for certain things. And then his sisters are still asking him for stuff even after he's moved out. They're still buggin’ him all the time. There's stuff in there that's swirling around, but it never really gets concretized. 

And then there's stuff around Kazuhito's mom that again, swirling around and never really gets concretized. And I just feel like the show wanted to do all of these things, but they weren't serious about any of them. And then they spend all this time in the middle, these two entire episodes, pulling in a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with any of this. 

Twig 

I wanna pick up what you said about the parents. The show spent time with both Kazuhito and Natsukawa’s moms. We Natsukawa’s mom clock immediately that there was something wrong with Natsukawa because he was making something deep fried, which is a sign that her son is going through it. And I thought that was a really beautiful way of showing that his mom understood him. And then we got the conversation with Kazuhito's mom when the comphet happens where Kazuhito's mom asks Natsukawa to let her know if Kazuhito meets anyone so that she can find out about his love life because he never tells her anything. 

And then the final episode, we get a moment with both moms where they clearly clock that something's going on with their sons and seem happy about it? And that was so unearned and made me so angry. Natsukawa’s mom at least seemed like she knew her son, but Kazuhito's mom was fully oblivious, and for her to get that moment of, “Oh good. My son is now happy with his boyfriend” to the point where—I took in these yukatas so that they can have this yukata moment—mmm, to bring that back. 

Ben 

There it is. Sorry, listeners, you won't get to count this show when you list them out. 

[all laugh]

Twig 

So they get these yukatas taken in so they can have them permanently. And nod to, “I know that you guys are gonna be a thing,” a quiet without having to say it aloud, “I'm cool with your relationship” and she makes an offhand comment that Kazuhito is so much happier now, like he was when he was younger, that indicates that she knows that Natsukawa is making a difference in Kazuhito’s life and she's happy about it. 

Where the hell was that energy when she was talking to him before, where did this come from? 

Ben 

You're right, man. After two episodes of angst in episode 6 and 7, they rushed the shit out of the resolution in episode 8. 

Twig 

This show had too little material to work with, was too cowardly to add very much at all. The little bit that they did add was not good, so maybe for the best that they [laughs] didn't try to do too much, but they wanted to keep the main beat in the same place, which meant that they shoved a bunch of filler in the middle that fucked up the entire emotional arc and then rushed the ending. They just shat the bed on it. The part that I was actually really interested in—which is, what is this relationship going to look like once it gets off the ground?—we didn't get any of that. 

Ben 

This show was good for like 30 percent of its run, tolerable for about 62 percent of its run. 

NiNi 

62 percent, that was so specific. 

Ben 

It’s what 5 divided by 8 is. [Twig laughs] It's just math.

NiNi 

Sir. Sir. Sir!

Ben 

Anyway, this is from the same team that brought us Old Fashion Cupcake, so we're trying to understand why the people who have made a five episode banger decided to take what should have been a five episode banger and make it an eight episode fart. 

Twig 

Talk that talk. 

Ben 

This show was so vacant. They clearly ran out of the great source material by the end of episode 3 and did not know what to do for the rest of the show. Spending this much time in one character having intense angst over another character not ending in a satisfying release of that tension is extremely disappointing. If Kazuhito was holding these feelings for 10 years, that perfunctory little dead fish kiss was so unsatisfying. I rebuke it. 

NiNi 

We shall not speak of it. 

Twig 

The one thing that did keep me going through that last episode were the performances specifically of Sato Ryuga and Sakai Sho. The performances in this show were good and I would like to see them in something else. 

Ben 

I would very much like them to try again. 

NiNi 

I absolutely agree, even through all the nonsense I think that the acting was solid and I would like to see these boys do something again. [sigh] I don't wanna talk about this show anymore. 

Ben

Let’s rate it!

NiNi

[laughs] Let's rate this sucker. 

Ben 

It's a 6. It's a 6. It was not exactly offensive, but this show made the egregious sin of being boring. How do you make a Japanese BL boring? That is the reign of Thailand, with its 50 to 100 fuckin’ minute episodes. 

[Twig laughs]

NiNi 

I'ma let you cook. For now. 

Twig 

The worst part about it is it's so close to being so good. You can almost fix it just by watching 1-4 and then 8. 

NiNi

No.

Ben 

No.

NiNi

No.

Ben

No.

NiNi

No.

Ben

No.

Twig

No?

Ben

[laughs] No. Absolutely not. 

Twig 

Ha! [Twig laughs]

NiNi

I would be right there with you normally, but 8 is not good. 

Ben 

I love you, Twig. [laugh] I will be back-to-back with you against anyone in this fandom. But I can't be with you on this, sis. Episode 8 fucking sucked because it doesn't complete either character’s actual character arc! Mm-mm.

NiNi 

It doesn't pick up on the stuff that was going on up to episode 5, and then it also doesn't pick up on the stuff that they were doing in 6 and 7. So it doesn't follow either of the arcs that they were going with. 

Twig 

This is my point. You have to cut out all the shit it didn't pick up on [laughs] and then it's fine. 

Ben 

[laughs] You're gonna make it the five episode BL it should have been.

Twig

That’s what I’m saying! 

NiNi 

No. I'm sorry, even if you wanted to do that, I'm sorry, those lame ass kisses at the end? Forget about it. 

Ben 

NiNi! Rating. 

NiNi 

It was a 7 until this conversation, now it's a 6. 

Ben 

Twig-tea! 

Twig 

Yeah, I'm with you all, it’s a 6. 

Ben 

It's a 6 from The Conversation. 

00:52:03 - Why The Queerness Matters

Ben 

Both of these shows got less than a 7 from The Conversation, and the conversation about them is different. Love is Better the Second Time Around was actually so fucking good for the bulk of its run and then clearly jettisoned to go be something else instead. With Living With Him, it's very clear that they didn't know what to do with the amount of runtime they had. You can see this show falling apart in real time. This show was not it and it should have been. The potential was sky high and the show really let me down. It went from being a 10 to a 6. That is a terrifying fall. I don't think I've ever had such a turn with a show in my experience in BL. 

NiNi 

So, the thing about these two shows, why we ended up placing them together, aside from the fact that they started strong and flopped. The flop happened for both of these shows in trying to go for a flashback. Trying to go to time prior to the show to tell us… what, exactly? And I think that's the thing that really I'm taking away from this. If you're gonna do a flashback in a story, the flashback has to give you something, it has to mean something, it has to illuminate something. And for both of these shows, I do not feel illuminated by the flashback. I didn't feel like the flashback gave me either new information narratively or new information thematically and emotionally. I just feel like the flashbacks were there because they wanted to flash back to a different time for whatever reason, but there's no real reason in either of these stories for the flashback to exist. 

Ben 

It's because they're making the mistake of not recognizing what western M/M romance understands, that if you're going to break the characters up in a meaningful way, do it at the 60% mark. 

Twig 

I want to pick up what NiNi said, too. The flashback has to accomplish something and we should learn something from it, but also the character should have learned something since, and it should set us up for them to move their arcs forward in a way that makes sense from what we had before the flashback. 

NiNi 

Absolutely, yes. 

Twig 

In both of these cases, the flashback did not fill in the information to allow us to follow that character arc in any way that was meaningful or satisfying. 

Ben 

I'm not always keen on flashbacks in romance. I gotta be honest. The problem with romance flashbacks a lot of the time is, unless you're contextualizing something that the audience has picked up on the whole time, you're just retconning your show. 

Twig 

Yeah, I agree. For the most part. I think sometimes shows seem like their goal is to trick the audience and that most of the time should not be your goal except in very specific genre circumstances. Most of the time, your audience should be able to at least anticipate sort of what's coming-ish and be excited about it. The how and the why is the part that's interesting, not the, “Oh, you did something that you didn't tell me you were doing for the last however many hours of my life.” It shouldn't be a surprise. 

NiNi 

For me, that's not entirely it. I have enjoyed before a midstream flashback that tells me something brand new that I have to go back to the beginning and be like, “Oh a twist!” Like, I've enjoyed a twist flashback before. It's not even a question of that. It's a question of, the flashback has to have a purpose. It has to have a reason, it has to give me something, sooomething that I did not already know. Like I said, whether that's narrative, whether that's thematic or emotional, but it has to illuminate something new for me. It has to have a reason for being there. And I just feel in both of these cases the flashback had no reason for being there. 

That said, I have enjoyed this episode. For many reasons. 

Ben 

It's because we dunked on Japan. That's it. [NiNi laughs] That's it. 

NiNi 

You can't even let me have the fun of saying it. 

Ben 

No, no, no. You don't get to have it. ‘Cause I love Japanese BL. This dunking is me trying to grab them by the shoulders, like James T Kirk grabbing people by the shoulders, and being like, “What are you doing? I need you to get it together. [laughs] 

NiNi 

I am enjoying this episode because sometimes I do feel sort of alone in my little “Eh, I'm not entirely feeling it” bubble on some of these Japanese shows, so it's nice to have company for a change, is what I was saying. I was not trying to shade you. 

Ben 

Here's the thing, let's unpack this. Japanese BL works for me the most often because their romance stories often track for something very specifically queer about them. All the Japanese BL that I constantly bring up on this show has romantic angst that also taps into my very specific concern as a queer critic. And that's particularly why I get frustrated when these shows fuck it up. 

As Twig pointed out, Living With Him introduces a compulsory heterosexuality moment after the character has made the big emotional turn and recognized that he does want to remain close to his friend after he learns an important queer detail about him. That is a huge queer fuck up! The big fuck up with Love is Better the Second Time Around is, these guys went through the task of getting back together and trying to be open with each other and being vulnerable and kind of embarrassing with each other. When the homophobia rears its head again and is gonna separate them, the show does not reward us or the characters for the growth that they've been trying to achieve by letting them have that moment together to become a battle couple. 

That's the real problem with it, ‘cause, like, in a normal fucking heterosexual romance, who gives a shit if the straights are gonna stay together? The whole world is going to help them stay together if they want to, or let them divorce if they don't. We're the only ones who're going to give a shit about each other when the boots come marching again. And so when I'm watching BL, I'm watching from the queer part, and when these shows fuck up on the queer part is when I turn against them so aggressively. That's why you’ve seen Japan not even catch strays this time. I'm sniping at them for these shows because this is not correct. [NiNi laughs]

This is the true fuck up. This is the crux of my disappointment here. They fucked up on the queer front, not on the romance part. I can take it or leave it on the romance part. Writing romance is not as easy as people think it is. People fuck that shit up all the time. But if you can do something that feels queer in a way that feels truly correct to me, I'll be very forgiving about some romance missteps. But both of these shows fucked up on the queer part of their romance arcs and I do not forgive that. 

Twig 

After they were doing so well, that's the part that hurts. They started getting the queer part so right and then got it so wrong. 

Ben 

I truly get you, why you don't always vibe with these shows, NiNi, because they're not always satisfying in that way as romance stories. I totally get you on that. But what always works for me in the shows that I want to advocate for when we get together is that these shows have a real kernel of queer truth that is worth connecting to and worth advocating for for people who want to engage with queer stories. It's why you and I were able to bond so strongly over I Told Sunset About You, I Promised You the Moon, and Bad Buddy. Those shows are satisfying romantically and also as queer cinema. The shows that we both love the most on here are very good at both of those things. But the queer part of their storytelling is non-negotiable for me in a genre about boys kissing each other. 

NiNi 

I hear you. I'm with you. This episode is gonna air right at the end of June. I think this is a great way— 

Ben 

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

NiNi

—for us to—

Ben

Oh yeah.

NiNi

—end Pride month. 

Ben 

Happy pride, bitches!

[Ben and NiNi laugh] 

NiNi 

Because it is important to remember that among everything else, amongst all the love and romance in this genre, that this genre is a queer genre and the queerness matters. 

Ben 

Any final thoughts you'd like to share with the audience, Twig-tea? 

Twig 

I don't have anything to add. That was right. Correct! That's what I have to say to that. 

NiNi 

That is going to wrap us up on Second Rate Second Chance! Twig, thank you so much for being with us. 

Twig 

Thank you for having me. 

NiNi 

We will see you guys next time. Until then, we out. Say bye to the people, Twig. 

Twig 

Dispatch! 

Ben 

Dispatch! 

NiNi 

[laughs] Say bye to the people, Ben. 

Ben 

Peace. 

[waitmyturtles]

Hello Turtle,

What do you think of the Sky-Nani phenomenon? People seem to be crazy about them ^^ Do you think it's because they aren't officially a pair (even though that could be discussed since they are doing events and fan meeting together)?

Thanks

Hi Non! I'm sorry I missed this over the holidays.

There's a lot of theories out on the internet explaining the popularity of SkyNani. I didn't watch High School Frenemy, so allow me to first surmise (and hope) that these two just acted really well together.

I've thought about the SkyNani pairing a couple of times recently in the course of thinking about the present and future of the Thai Series Y genre (here and here). The western QL scholar, Dr. Thomas Baudinette, surmised in a tweet (.... that I am having trouble finding, forgive me, when I find it, I'll link it here) that SkyNani were popular particularly in Thailand because of the "authenticity" of their fan service -- their being realistic bros, as opposed to unrealistic pseudo-boyfriends. (My guess is that Baudinette gleans this information from Thai forums such as Pantip, but that's only a guess.)

In the two links I included above, I myself surmise that the SkyNani pairing is popular particularly among ultra-conservative and conservative Asian markets that still consume QLs or queer-coded media, as a means of fans being able to consume media that is not having an in-your-face conversation about queerness and queer themes. I propose that this is intentional on the part of GMMTV wanting and needing to serve markets (such as China, Malaysia, and Indonesia) that do not allow for in-person fan meets of consecrated queer-coded BL pairs, and have only welcomed solo fan meets from GMMTV artists.

(I don't know if other studios have bucked that trend. I see that ZeeNuNew have done fan meets in Hong Kong, but I'm not sure if other huge ships, like DaouOffroad and so on, have been able to conduct fan meets in mainland China.)

Being part-Malaysian, I want to note that Malaysia outright bans homosexuality, and the promotion of certain QL/BL artists in Malaysia and Indonesia never include public mentions of their QL series.

Yet, these are big markets for QL's growth, especially given the economic power of these fans to buy merchandise, streaming subscriptions, and concert tickets. So I surmise that GMMTV diversifying its pairings to include "bro-ships" is, for them, a good business decision.

It's concerned me, and other QL devotees here on Tumblr, that this trend could lead to a watering-down of queer themes in major QL productions. At the same time, I personally think that this won't be a universal trend -- because shows need to differentiate themselves from each other, and try out different queer themes and perspectives so as to set themselves apart from others in the wider market. At least, I'm hoping that's the case, and only time will tell.

Finally, some other rumors about SkyNani's popularity are that they're filling the "just friends" shoes of the OhmNanon ship that busted last year. This explanation doesn't quite fit for me, considering the very in-your-face queer conversations that Bad Buddy had. But I think it's interesting that the SkyNani promotional materials lean so heavily into the "friend" terminology that Bad Buddy created, and that GMMTV likely wanted to continue pursuing.

To be honest: I'm kind of curious about High School Frenemy, considering that I loved Fon Kanittha's work in 10 Years Ticket. But I am so behind on shows that it would take a lot for me to make time for HSF. However, I'm likely going to add it (without watching it) on the Old GMMTV Challenge list as a harbinger of the style of ships that GMMTV is playing around with in Series Y's second decade of existence.

[red-velvet-0w0]

Erins list of media recomendations

Are you bored and looking for a new show to get into?

Did you follow me for one specific fandom and now have no idea what 90% of my posts are about?

Well look no further!

here is a list of a bunch of really cool media (of various genres/mediums) that I love and you might love too! (these are mostly going to be smaller fandoms/media that i dont think gets the attention they deserve):

Hello From the Hallowoods (podcast): My beloved! if you are a fan of Malevolent or TMA, and want other queer eye themed horror podcasts, this is my #1 recomendation. It is by far my favorite podcast of all time, and needs way more love then it gets. its currently still releasing episodes and is on its 4th season (slightly spoilery pitch (if you dont like spoilers look away): a scattered group of survivors of an apocalypse known as "the black rains" fight to survive in a strange and magical forest, as an all seeing god watches from afar)

Witherburn After School News (podcast): Another great underappreciated queer podcast. its still releasing episodes and is currently still in its first season. Though there are supernatural elements, the story remains far more grounded and interested in the ordinary lives of the people. Gives a lot of the same vibes of season 1 TMA, but if instead of the statements being the focus, the characters were given the spotlight while the supernatural stories loomed in the background (slightly spoilery pitch (if you dont like spoilers look away): a young reporter in a small town decides starts an afterschool radio show, where she discusses the goings on around town, and takes it upon herself to investigate the dissapearences of children that the police refuse to acknowledge)

Aurora Webcomic (webcomic): A webcomic made by OSP Red herself! the art and storytelling is phenomanal, and all of the characters are impecibaly written. it is currently in its second arc, and regularly releasing 3 pages a week. (also fun fact its where i got the name erin from) (slightly spoilery pitch (if you dont like spoilers look away): a demigod must rescue his master from a god-stealing witch before she is able to use his soul to end all life on earth. along the way he meets up with a cast of colorful characters, each with their own quests, who decide to band together to save the world)

Nova Drift (video game): did you ever play that old Asteroids video game back in the day? did you ever wonder what it would be like if it was instead a fast paced bright neon roguelike where you massacred everybody who stood in your path with high tech machinery? well nova drift has you covered! its a ton of fun and increadibly addicting, with tons of complexity and endless replayability

Epithet Erased (indie cartoon): If wordplay was a series. it was created by the youtuber JelloApocalypse based off of a rpg campaign he played with friends. Though its artstyle is relatively simple due to its low budget, the limits put upon the animation allow it to find new and creative ways to tell its story. (slightly spoilery pitch (if you dont like spoilers look away): In a universe where people have words tied to their souls that grant them powers, 6 people must battle it out in a museum for control over an ancient artifact)

The Wandering Inn (web fiction): another one of the reasons I go by Erin! though I honestly really need to catch up with it, I highly recomend the wandering inn if youre interested in more long-form stories. It is currently on volume 10 (i think im not sure) and each volume is longer then the last. If youre a fan of storys with hundreds of characters and shifting viewpoints youll love it. otherwise you should run in fear because you will not be able to remember half of the characters by volume 2. (slightly spoilery pitch (if you dont like spoilers look away): A chess prodigy from earth named Erin Solstice suddenly finds herself transported into an RPG style fantasy world with magic, classes, and levels. to survive, she decides to become a bartender)

Bigtop Burger (indie cartoon): If youre a fan of absurdist comedies, this is the show for you. Its made by the youtuber Worthikids and just finished its second season. its incredibly short and can be binged in its entirety in just over half an hour. (slightly spoilery pitch (if you dont like spoilers look away): a clown themed food truck attempt to sell burgers, while fighting with their rival food truck, and slowly realizing that their boss is not who they thought he was)

Kid Vampire (indie cartoon): much like Bigtop, KV is a simple and charming show with not much more going on. if your looking for some fun fluffy stories about some kids having fun, id recomend it, but if your looking for something more serious you might want to look elsewhere. Its made by the youtuber Mummy Joe, and is actively releasing episodes. (slightly spoilery pitch (if you dont like spoilers look away): a vampire child named Kid Vampire is sent to go to school with humans to kill them and steal their blood, but ends up making some new friends instead.)

Those are nowhere near all of my favorites, but id highly recomend you check at least 1 out! I adore all of these and if I can get even 1 more person to become a fan, ill consider that a win!

[thee-horny-thicky]

Do you mind if I ask your top 10 favorite characters (can be male or female) from all of the media that you loved (can be anime/manga, books, movies or tv series)? And why do you love them? Sorry if you've answered this question before.....Thanks...

Okay, so, technically, Satoru and Suguru are two different characters, but they're canon parallels to each other, two halves of a duo. When that stopped being the case, a chasm was created and their worlds shifted. Their relationship is a major part of both characters stories, so separating them is difficult.

It isn't hard to guess that I love them. They're complex characters, and both serve as a cornerstone of JJK. It's impossible to imagine the series without either one of them, and their respective ideologies and the reasons behind them can be essay material. (I know because I've written one for school)

Bella Goth is an iconic Sims character. She's a baddie, and has some of the most intriguing lore of the game. I think it's a shame the Sims 4 slacked up on the storylines of the townies, because even though I've never owned the original game or Sims 2, the lore of the first two games is compelling. I have fond memories of her, often revolving me breaking up her marriage, and protecting her from those mean, scary aliens.

I was six when this movie came out, and my mother took my sisters and I to see it in the theater. That first watch is something I'd never forget, and even though I was upset that my older sister stole my snacks, the magic of the movie overrode it all. To see a princess movie set in New Orleans endeared it to my entire family, and the fact that she's the first and only Black princess gives Tiana a special place in my heart. She's hardworking, ambitious, and persistent. Not to mention, she's a baddie.

Her and Naveen's love story is one of my favorites, and I adore the fact she showed you can have a loving husband and a prosperous career. She's an independent woman, but can still accept love.

Speaking of....

The original Disney baddie, (argue with your mama), and the first to spark my interest in martial arts. I thought she was so cool, and seeing her growth always puts a smile on my face. When she sat on the top of that pole, I was so proud of her. She started out headstrong and determined, and more honorable than most of the men around her. The crowd bowing to her was exactly what she deserved, and her Father giving her her props was such a sweet moment to me.

As a side note, she deserved better than Li Shang. I fully subscribe to the theory that Li is bisexual and developed an attraction towards Ping. I love the hypothetical queer representation, even if he ends up in a straight relationship. What I don't love is how he left her to die. He tried to pose it as an act of mercy, showing his gratitude for her heroic actions, but he still left her on a freezing mountainside in barely anything. Then, when she escaped and tried to warn him, he refused to give her the time of day. Put short, he was raggedy.

Saiki is one of my favorite anime protagonists. The way the anime pokes fun at tropes is so funny, and Saiki being done with the world around him is a mood, as is his fear of bugs. Anime is riddled with all powerful characters, and a lot of the time, they have a copy and paste personality. Seeing Saiki longing to be normal, (to the point of stalking someone who's scarily average), whilst also being over reliant on his powers and being comedically apathetic is a nice change of pace. It also makes him surprisingly complex. Though this is a theory and not canon, he's great ace representation. He's content with having no romantic partner, and I like how he grows to deal with having friends without having a sudden interest in romance.

Another good example of Ace representation, in my humble bisexual opinion, is Barbie. She shows that friendship and sisterhood can be fulfilling on its own, without any need for a romantic relationship.

Now, I don't think the Barbie movie is as revolutionary as people made it out to be. It was feminism 101, with the core message being the patriarchy oppresses women, and grossly limits men. A message that's still controversial in 2024, but not one we haven't heard before.

Still, it was an incredibly fun movie, and Barbie was a great heroine. The moment she chose the high heel over the Birkenstock, I knew I'd love her, and I was right.

I love Avatar: The Last Airbender. It was so ahead of its time, and is an example of how complex 'kid' shows can be. It's pretty hard for me to pick a favorite character, but if I was forced to choose, I'd say Uncle Iroh.

Long ago, I saw a comment about how if there was a character that embodied the pleasant warmth of a fire place or cackling campfire, it'd be Uncle Iroh. I completely agree. He's the perfect mentor, standing in Zuko's corner no matter what he wanted to do, while subtly guiding him down the right path. He also wasn't blind to his nephew's flaws, but never addressed them in a way that made Zuko feel unwanted. Even after being backstabbed, he was simply sad that Zuko lost his way.

We don't see his character arc on screen, but we know he underwent an incredible transformation, going from a fearsome Fire Nation general, to a humble old man reflective about life, though he can still kick ass if needed.

Leaves From The Vine still makes me feel mushy and teary-eyed. It's bittersweet knowing that losing his son was the catalyst for him to become the character we see, and the reason he's so dedicated to Zuko. He's trying to prevent him from suffering the same fate, and right a wrong that's haunted him for so long. Learning that the tears in Iroh's voice was genuine, because that was one of the final things Mako Iwamatsu recorded before passing, made me want to curl up in bed. He brought the character to life, and is one reason he's so iconic.

Finally, Mr. Shouta Aizawa's fine ass. Now, besides just being fine, I love him for many of the reasons I love Iroh. He's nowhere as cheerful and warm as Uncle Iroh, but he takes his role as a teacher and mentor seriously. He stands in his students corner no matter what, and has shown time and time again that he'd give his life for them. Furthermore, he isn't a hero for fame or recognition, but because he believes it's the right thing to do. He knows the society he lives in is flawed, and tries to right U.A's quirk prejudice system by mentoring Hitoshi.

One might not peg him as it, but he's a very parental character. It's shown with his students, with Hitoshi, and most especially Eri. He's dedicated to guiding the next generation to achieve their fullest potential. Plus, his quirk is cool as hell, and he can throw hands.

Bonus:

Anya Forger and Nezuko, because they make me reconsider my stance on children. They're so cute, and highlights of their respective shows. And I love how Anya is shown to be childishly intelligent. It's due to her powers, but still.

TF141 also gains an honorable mention, especially my baby girl Ghost. Despite being the most secretive character of the task force, we have the most information on his background, and I love his fruity friendship with Johnny. Likewise, I love the mentor relationship Gaz and Price have. On a hornier note, I wish there were more threesome fics with Gaz and Price taking a lucky lady to Pound Town. All and all, these four awful people are my favorite pieces of military propaganda.

[alpaca-clouds]

Kids in certain media spaces/fandoms

While a certain part of my dash has this discussion - and I have heard some friends (like real world physical friends), who are in their mid 20s complain about this too - let me just try and put everyone's minds at ease: Yes, it is perfectly normal for "kids" (read = teens, maybe tweens) to consume supposedly "adult" media. And with that I mean, well... try and be a part of certain fandoms, that technically are based on media they are not old enough for if we go by rating.

Most currently I have seen the discussion arise around both Hazbin Hotel and Baldur's Gate 3. Honestly, I am not sure about the English rating system for video games, as in Germany we use the same one for games and other media, with Hazbin being "16+" and BG3 being rated "18+" over here.

And yet, obviously, there is a ton of kids younger than that hanging in those fandom spaces - and some people are very "concerned" about this.

Meanwhile I am sitting here like: "Yeah, I watched 18+ stuff at age 13 or 14 as well. Watched 16+ stuff even earlier, even though I was not allowed. And don't get me started on the books I read at age 10."

And every person who I have seen being "concerned" about this has openly admitted that, yes, they have consumed some media that technically legally they were not supposed to be exposed to at that inappropriate age, too, but "that's different". Usually this will be followed by some arguments about the abuse-themes in either piece of media.

And I am like: "Yeah, but that is actually a good thing, right? Both Hazbin and BG3 call out romantic/sexual abuse out as what it is. They show it as abusive and destructive. That is a good thing for teens to learn about." Because let me tell you one thing: No, the fact that I read 18+ Smut manga as a kid did not fuck me up. But you know what fucked me up? That back then a lot of those smut manga had stories that featured abusive/toxic relationships that were depicted as normal or even good. Because, yeah, to me when I was 14 it was indeed not quite comprehensible why my then bf doing the same stuff I read about in those manga made me feel bad. Took me into my 20s to realize what was going on there.

Sure, I kinda get what people are on about when it comes to "but what about grooming?" But... Like, most of the big fandom grooming things that happened where in kiddy-fandoms. Like, the cases I know about where in the fandoms of Pokémon and My little Pony. Because... Let's face it. The person going out of their way to groom a kid will more likely just go into one of those kid-friendly fandoms and find their victim there, than going for the teens in "adult fandoms".

I kinda feel like people are overthinking this. It is just something that happens and will always happen. Especially teens will take some interest in "adult" shows, movies and games. That always was like that and always will be like that. It was like that before the internet even, only that getting your hands at it got easier with the internet.

... Also, keep in mind that generally speaking, those age ratings are not exactly based on science, but instead mostly on moral outcry. Do I think that a 13yo will be able to comprehend the entire story of Angel Dust? Nope, probably not. And that is fine. Do I think that watching Hazbin, that is mostly rated the way it is because the characters cuss a lot, there are sexual themes and cartoony violence, will actually harm most 13yos? Nope, probably not.

Look, I do not feel comfortable with teens in most of my fandom spaces either. Especially those fandom spaces where the media deals with some adult topics. So, for the most part, I just do try to avoid interacting with them.

Just do the same. You will not be able to keep the teens out. Not by shaming them, and not by shaming their parents. And unless you want the parents to 24/7 watch their kids online (which you cannot want if you care about queer kids)... Just relax. If those kids really bother you, block and move on.

[slayerkitty]

There has been ongoing discussion of Only Friends amongst a few of us about central themes of the show and ideas Jojo seems to be exploring. We ended up in a discussion on ephemerality that led to a broader discussion on what the show is trying to say about permanency, mostly through the use of things like Boston's photography, surveillance videos, and other audio/visual means.

We also touched on the idea of voyeurism being a running theme (potentially tying back to the very public nature of queer culture in the 80's and 90's) based on the different medias being presented and the frameworks that each episode has used so far. I posited at the time that the different frameworks of each episode could be a type of voyeurism (and because we've brought up control), a type of controlled voyeurism; the voice overs, talking heads and even the Twitter posts are great for giving the audience insight into character insights, feelings and emotions but only what they want us to see.

There was also discussion in the tag about how this show feels like a throwback to sort of a late 90's aesthetic over all (I can't find this post - specifically I'm thinking of a post that mentioned OF had a very Dawson's Creek aesthetic, which hit me like a truck when I read it because YES). Given that Jojo was born in 1984, so I think this post about OF being the voice of 80's babies is right.

So, you must be asking, duh, we've already talked about this. What's your point?

All of this extremely prolific long-windedness is because I noticed something while watching the Let's Try MV from the OST as well as the BTS videos that have been released so far and I don't think anyone has mentioned it.

In the MV, shots from the show (both what appear to be canon and a smidge of BTS material) are shown like they were filmed on a mid-90's camcorder. This also happens in the in the BTS videos as well (episode 1, episode 2.)

Also, both the MV and the BTS videos have visual effects. Transitions like lens flares, static, and whatever that blippy line distortion was on VHS tapes that we fixed with the tracking buttons (if you know, you know) repeatedly show up in both.

(Please prepare yourself for some absolutely horrible screenshots; I have no skills in this area, lmao, but I wanted a couple of visuals)

(What? No, I didn't choose these three screenshots because of the colors, absolutely not. I also absolutely am not tagging @respectthepetty because of it either, nope. Don't know what you're talking about.)

But Slayerkitty, you ask, what does it mean?

It definitely shows that we're on the right track regarding this, I think, because using it in the MV and BTS materials is a very deliberate choice given the amount of photo, video, and audio focus the show has done to this point. Interestingly, you could also say the BTS videos are a type of controlled voyeurism as well, since it's a specific peek at how things were made (the view they want us to have lol).

(Also interesting but I'm not sure if it means anything or if they just thought it looked cool, but in the MV from about 2:29-2:40 and 2:52-3:10 the scenes are all "camcorder" video and the second time stamp is pretty much all BTS footage.)

(P.S. I also don't think anyone mentioned it before now, but that fluffy jacket/cardigan thing we're all obsessed with that Ray wore in episode two is what Khaotung is wearing the MV. It looks like they probably shot the episode two car scene and the MV the same day/night.)

Tagging the ephemerality squad and anyone who's posts I linked to, in case you guys have any thoughts: @waitmyturtles, @wen-kexing-apologist, @ranchthoughts, @chickenstrangers, @lurkingshan, @twig-tea, @clara-maybe-ontheroad, @distant-screaming, @shouldiusemyname

I know I forgot someone, I'm sure! Apologies if I did. I'm gonna have to make a list, lol.

[meruz]

another ask post

i mean i also read it because a friend whos rly into queer SFF fiction circles recced it but she did kinda lead with "the writer used to write hs fanfic...tasmyn..taz...?" to which i replied

of COURSE I read the locked tomb because i heard taz had written a book. of course. ill consume most any media made by a beloved homestuck bnf. thats also why i played undertale. and read like..snotgirl. and idk... watched the new dub of neon genesis evangelion.

if u made homestuck fanwork 10 years ago and havent even made it since chances are I still remember and I love you for it.

sdlkfhsg its funny you sensed that because that drawing did in fact start kinda more........ well, I'd be lying if I said my hands never wrought a drawing toeing over the pg-13 line LOL...

NOT to say i have a secret stash of porn or anything. in general im more interested in the implication of sexuality or mature themes over any explicit depiction. like everything i draw is so softcore itd almost feel silly to make a nsfw acc for anything.

but im not rly jumping to post anything on main either bc i get the sense i have a lot of kids in my social media following. it varies from site to site and fandom to fandom but the themes in my work often circle around childhood, coming of age etc and in general i like stories about kids so the fandoms i draw for have a lot of kids in them. even stuff like IT (stephen king) which is about kids but isn't necessarily for kids.. there were a lot of kids in that fandom lol.

actually thats why ive been censoring swears in comics lately because the tmnt fandom comes across to me as a little young...IDK I've had MULTIPLE people ask me what "sodomize" means because of the joke in this post and I'm like... I Cannot be the one to explain this to you. you have to look it up on your own klfsdhsdg like i wouldn't be doing this if i were doing a comic for mgs or even homestuck wherein the characters textually swear constantly LOL but sometimes u gotta change tacks depending on the faces u see in the crowd yknow.

i HAVE been thinking abt drawing nsfw of sunspot/richard rider/kobak from x-men red just because that comic seemed to be really asking for it. who knows.. if the need rly arises maybe my separate account policy will change.

its rly more a matter of the fact that i havent read/watched much of any other iterations... im sure id like most lol. I like most things related to my interests regardless of quality. i rly like the marvel ultimate alliance games for instance. sometimes seeing my fave guy is enough he doesnt have to be well written LOL. i dont exactly have a wealth of free time tho thats the real impediment.

i did watch the 2007 movie on new years eve and found it quite charming overall. and i have read about 30-40 issues between the mirage and idw comics. still feels like im barely scratching the surface but i liked em. i rly want to read all the sophie campbell stuff bc i think her work is interesting. jason aaron will be a mixed bag i think lmao. i say as the worlds biggest Wolverine and the X-Men (2011) fan.

hmm this is kinda hard bc i feel like i naturally draw very loose and the hard part for me is tightening it up. maybe some suggestions tho...

1) hand excercises. i think its easy to forget this when many artists sit in front of the computer all day but drawing is a physical activity u do with ur actual...bodys...muscles lol. if u feel urself tightening up it might help to strech (any google search for "artist hand excercises" should yield good results) or do a page of loose practice strokes like..big circles. long lines. scribbles. that kinda thing. whatever feels good for ur hand. this is also just good to do as a general warm up before u sit down for any drawing sesh.

2) draw further away from the canvas. as a general rule...when ur painting traditionally you do the big strokes with your whole arm outstreched and a long handled brush. and when you do the details its smaller wrist movements and a shorter handled brush. so it might help to take a step back or push back from ur chair a little.. or hold ur tablet a little further away. and hold your pen further away from the nib.

3) change mediums / brush types. some brushes and mediums are more suited to loose sketching and some more inclined towards detail work. so changing ur tool could help. also! i personally have this problem where sometimes if im using a brush i feel really familiar with the pressure to make a "good" "finished" "perfect" drawing is greater... if i want to force myself to loosen up ill switch to a tool i dont use as often so it feels like the pressure is off. a lot of times for me this is switching from digital to traditional. but sometimes its switching from a small pen to a big marker. or a smooth pen to a textured one. or a nice brush to a shitty dried up marker.

but also every body is different so i dont think these tips will work for everyone. u should listen to what ur body and mind tell u and how drawing feels to you

bro just sign up and set it up i dont think theres much to it... i dont rly think too much abt my itch.io store because its digital goods so u just upload the file and let it do its thing. no distribution work needed on ur part. youll notice i barely even advertise my itch unless i have smth new on there lol.. its easy. but good luck!!!

idk if im the best person to ask this im more a comic fan than i am a comic professional... a comic hobbist.

well. scott mcclouds understanding comics and making comics are good books on the craft. i think i had to buy them for a class in art school once.

other than that idk just keep at it. comics are really laborious i think for a lot of people the hardest part is sitting down and doing it.

i think a lot of people have a very instinctive understanding of how to read comics and what they look like so whatever you think seems like good way to tell the story you have in mind, its probably right. if u get stuck, study comics that have done something similar. most people in comics are relatively self taught and actually it can be problematic bc you can tell when a lot of comic artists are all copying the same like 5 old white guys LMAO. but on the flip side if you make sure to reference and study broadly your comics will almost assuredly feel unique.

sorry im responding to this anyways. this is just a really nice ask. i like when people reference my older work bc i feel like sometimes theyre subtly implying it wasnt very good LMAOOO. but its true! at least compared to the work i make now ^^ and the fact that im still making art is whats keeping me from being embarassed abt how much of my old art just floats around online lmao im never ashamed to be growing and learning. isnt that a nice thought <3

[leandra-kinard]

sorry in advance if i come off degrading or rude here (not my intention at all) but i'm sending this to you because you mentioned fictional narrative re: buddie, so i wanna add my thoughts about plausibility in relation to narrative format and medium conventions. long rant & full disclosure, i just watched 911, so i don't know how the conversation around this was pre-tommy but i don't understand how people thought/think it's a slowburn romance arc they were building with buddie that could actually happen. literally no romantic relationship on this show has been slowburn because it's just not how procedural shows of this kind are written. bathena barely interacts in s1 and were put together in a couple episodes. madney are only friends for five episodes or so. none of buck and eddie's relationships have build-up that lasts more than a few eps. the closest i can think of is buck and abby and even that wasn't much. i just don't think it's the nature of these type of shows, with the exception of something like the show castle where two main leads are set up as one day becoming romantic, to give breathing room for romance to go from zero to established. they're written in on-average 6-episode arcs and planned according to audience response, this is basically how every aspect of these shows work including the romantic plots.

which brings me to my second point you already touched a little bit: medium conventions but especially in relation to queer rep. when we have queer rep in these type of mainstream shows they're rarely stories about bi/gay awakening. double gay awakening? honestly, i don't remember a single show where something like this happened. i'm shocked we even got bi buck AT ALL because nominally straight hot guy main character getting confirmed as queer rarely happens. i kinda find the notion of people genuinely expecting this to happen with two main characters over seasons-long burn kind of laughable. and don't get me wrong, i understand why people love the idea, i'm myself a slow-burn building-a-bond-before-romance type of gal but i just don't think that type of queer story would ever work in a format like this, considering the average audience. look at something like 911ls for example, carlos and tk are both openly gay and start having sex on ep 2 and are boyfriends by ep 10 - that's the space queer stories currently hold in mainstream media. where it's made clear from the start and executed quickly over a few eps (not saying there's no further story with them, i just mean the relationship development). so yeah i don't think buddie was ever an option for the writers beyond being aware of the interest in it which is objectively very small compared to the millions of people watching this show. tldr: i think being ship-baited by a mainstream procedural show on fox is like going to the hardware store and asking for milkshake.

Okay, so I don't agree that slow burns aren't possible at all on shows like 911. Afaik, that popular ship on the Rookie also took several seasons, and there are many more shows that had a "will they, won't they?" situation with two main characters. Sure, it's much more difficult to write, plan and pull through, but it does get done.

Many people were hoping Buddie was FINALLY gonna be a queer version of that trope, and the thing is, there was enough subtext in the previous few seasons to support it. There were scenes that were shot and composed with commonly used cinematographic and contextual tropes that are usually used for romantic couples; there was all that stuff with Eddie having panic attacks over Ana, seeming very distanced with her, Carla's "Make sure you follow your heart, not Christopher's", and much more.

I do believe that backdoor was always open a tiny crack wide, and the writers were aware of it being a tiny, tiny option and therefore included all these little bits that would later make it plausible. There were interviews in the past with Tim where he even hinted at something like that, or left the option open; and there were other writers and directors who also subtly confirmed some subtext. It was never explicitly spelled out but hinted at.

So I'm pretty convinced that it at least was some level of consideration, in the past - always with a tiny probability to become possible, but it WAS there. (And before anyone reading this says "oh so that WAS ship baiting?" Nope, it wasn't. Giving yourself the option to maaaaybe do something in the future as a writer is normal procedure.)

Also, just because something was never done before (i.e. a queer slow burn) doesn't mean it'll never get done. It just makes it a lot less likely and subject to MANY external factors.

But yeah, I definitely agree that putting TWO queer awakening arcs around main characters into the story is extremely unlikely to ever happen on a show like this. And actually, we kinda already had two: the show started with Michael coming out to Athena. So yeah, even though we were thrown into the last stage/aftermath of that arc in s1 rather than seeing it play out from the start of its development, we had that.

[ofmdrecaps]

10/02-03/2024 Daily OFMD Recap

TLDR; David Jenkins; Rhys Darby; Taika Waititi; Samba Schutte; Kristian Nairn; Rachel House; Vico Ortiz; Anapela Polatavaio & David Fane; Lindsey Cantrell; Dominic Burgess; OFMD Rewind/Lube As a Crew; Fan Spotlight: Never Left Podcast; Gay Pirate News Hour; Love Notes;

Hey crew! It's gonna be another day of catching up because wow- lots happened, and lots of life has happened to! Will do my best to get 10/04 up with catch up stuff as well tonight!

== David Jenkins ==

David is promoting Kristian's book! Simone is helping!

Source: David's Instagram

== Rhys Darby ==

Although these are from last year, they were just posted by Gabe Ross, so here they are!

Source: Gabeross42 instagram

More pics to come from the Largo Los Angeles "Rhys Darby Saying Funny Things Society" show that happened on the 10/01! You can actually see some extra stuff from the show on Rhys' Substack!

Source: Largo Los Angelos Instagram

== Taika Waititi ==

Wanna see a video of Taika participating in the Haka World Record? Check it out over on tiktok!

Source: Cristalmkt on Tiktok

Taika posted the new trailer for the latest season of WWDITS!

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Taika Waititi (@taikawaititi)

Source: Taika's Instagram

== Kristian Nairn ==

Kristian was out at Forbidden Planet doing signings! Did you get a chance to go?

Source: Kristian Nairn's Instagram

== Samba Schutte ==

Samba is going to be joining the team of Legend of Vox Machina for season 3!

Source: Samba's Instagram Oh and remember Best Life? It won 3 Awards of Merit from the Best Shorts Competition!

Source: Valerie Chaney's Instagram

Heyy! Good news, Advanced Chemistry is coming out on 10/8 on digital!

Source: Samba's Instagram Stories

== Anapela Polataivao & David Fane ==

Anapela's new movie Tina premiered in Hawai'i on 10/03/2024! Lots of pics of the cast at the premier!

Source: Tina The Film Instagram / David Fane's Instagram Stories

== Vico Ortiz ==

Vico participated in the ActNOW's September Scene Study class (Justice for my Sister Fellowship) and helped the next generation of folks learn about "inclusive and trauma informed filmmaking for radical, authentic storytelling"!

Source: Instagram

Vico's voiced a new Audio book thats available now! Jasmine is Haunted is available at your local library and anywhere Audiobooks are sold!

"Jasmine Garza has a problem... and it’s not just the ghost that’s been haunting her for years! 👻 Perfect for any young listener who loves Ghostbusters, this queer, #LatinX paranormal fantasy is a fun and thrilling ghost hunting adventure perfect for spooky season. Available now everywhere #audiobooks are sold and at your local library with @hoopla.digital and @libbyapp! ✨🎧"

Source: Dreamscape Media Instagram

== Dominic Burgess ==

Dominic knows all too well how to get my attention. More Cat content.

Source: Dominic Burgess Twitter

== Rachel House ==

Rachel's film Te Maunga (The Mountain) was awarded the CIFEJ Award at the Schlingel Film Festival! Oh - and Correction, The Mountain movie was available 10/02/24 on digital in AoNZ and AUS. It's not available yet int the US. Sorry about the confusion!

Source: Rachel's Instagram

Another shot of Rachel at Tiff!

Source: birdrunningh2o Instagram

== Lindsey Cantrell ==

Our dear Set Designer Linds Cantrell shared some shots of a bakery in Auckland. Now-- is she clearing out her phone, or is there more to it? You decide :)

Source: Linds Cantrell Instagram

== OFMD Rewind ==

Our friends over at @adoptourcrew and @astroglideofficial kept the OFMD Rewind Watch Party going on the 3rd, and got it trending! Wanna see the tweet thread and have access to twitter? Visit them here! If you don't have access to twitter and want to see it, visit the Renewal Repo!

Source: Adopt Our Crew Twitter

== Fan Spotlight ==

= Never Left Podcast =

Some fun news from the Never Left Podcast team! They interviewed Etana Jacobson & Alec Moore, Director & Writer of Advanced Chemistry! Keep an eye out for it on October 8th!

Source: Never Left Podcast Instagram

= Gay Pirate News Hour =

Another episode of Gay Pirate News Hour is back Oct 5, 2024 1pm Pacific, 4PM Eastern on Youtube! Hosted by Our Flag Means Fanfiction, and joining are @ringasunn and IreneAdler. So excited for the next episode! (One of these days my life will calm down and I might get to join them). Check it out on OFMFF Youtube!

Source: Our Flag Means Fanfiction

== Love Notes ==

Happy Friday Lovelies! I realize this recap is for weds and thursday but I'm gonna roll with it! I hope the rest of the week was kinder to you than the previous parts of the week. Please know we're thinking of you crew, it's okay if you're keeping low on the radar of fandom at the moment. It's also great if you're out honking your nose off! Whatever you're doing is what you need to do, and don't let anyone tell you any different. I know sometimes it seems like things just keep getting worse, lovelies, the world is a chaotic place, and it's okay to sit with your feelings and feel that. Just remember you're loved and it can and will get better one day. There will always be high points and low points in this life, that's just how it goes, but how you cope with those points changes for the better each and every time they pass. Remember you are wonderful, and you are strong, and you're gonna get through whatever you're dealing with, okay? Sending love and hugs, and all the good vibes into your weekend <3

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by bailey ☻ (@anxiety.positive)

Source: Anxiety.Positive Instagram

[cripplemagics]

rant under cut due to length and me just being petty about tumblr's love of 'progressive' purity culture. (note: vague mentions of csa and incest are made. no details are given beyond that shit happened. don't get mad at me for talking about it.)

i've been in a friends discord watching someone play uhhh. . . what is it, the adventures of andy and leyley? the recent early access rpg maker game with two siblings who are definitely into each other and they get into demonic shit and there's cannibalism and stuff too. i gotta say. . . people who say its all for shock value clearly don't remember the late 2000s to mid 2010s era of rpg maker horror games.

let me get one thing straight: it is nothing compared to what people make it to be. the writing is genuinely good, the story is interesting. and while the main characters are codependent and abusive and awful people? They're human as fuck and interesting to follow. It is indeed edgy. it would've been eaten up and adored by the emo and scene masses in the late '00s/early '10s. and in terms of incest? its not fucking explicit. could it become more explicit in the future as they update it? of course! but whatever. its not the entire story, nor is it even close to that.

so, i imagine some people on here will be saddened to hear i've found something to enjoy in such 'filth.' think of the children who have been put through abuse and incest! and to that i say this:

i was put through abuse in an incestuous way as a child. the people who cry for purity in media are the people who looked down on me for it happening even though i was the clear victim. they're the people who refused to give me grace and understanding. and they certainly did not help my family as we all went through the grief that comes when being put through such a situation.

'think of the children!' then you turn around and put your fingers in your ears when it actually happens around you, refusing to understand the scope of the problem. bah.

i forgave my abuser because i understood that they were autistic to the point that they did not understand how this shit was inappropriate. Once they were given proper behavioral therapy, they were horrified by their actions. i refuse to forgive those who vilify media like it is the demon in this situation because you're all so up your own asses that you can't see the light.

i get it. you want an easy solution and something to blame. don't we all? but life isn't fucking black and white like that. getting rid of media you don't agree with does nothing but make it easier for oppressed voices to be oppressed further. by pushing this sort of ideology you're allowing extremists to weaponize queer media and shut it down.

so go fuck a cactus and learn to fucking chill. i'll be having fun studying pieces of media i enjoy.

[craetor]

What are your top 10 favorite media ever (can be anime/manga, tv series, books, movies, games, etc)? Why love them? Thanks ⭐

Hehe thanks for the ask! I'd be happy to comply!

I can't pick dude. If you just want me to ramble about media, I'll start by talking about some pieces that have positively surprised me.

• Spaceman

Tuned in for the hot spider from the instagram clips, stayed for the interesting social commentary. I'm sure it would help a fuck ton of cis men if they just watched it. I loved Hanuš even more than I expected. Turns out an emotionally wise & relatable alien is better than one that would gut me after all.

• Pop Team Epic (season 1 especially)

It's one of those out-of-pocket pieces of media that have a ridiculous production value and passion behind it. Like, genuine production value. It's like anything Studio Trigger has made. An old friend and I were obsessed with PTE during the pandemic and pretty much made it half our personality to like it and other media like it (e.g. Way of a House Husband, nyan neko sugar girls, Backstreet Girls (That was a solid 6/10. Good watch dude). I also have Cromartie High School on my watchlist we'll see how that goes)

Now onto some books & poetry

As some may know from reading my fics & following my Lawlight obsession, I'm a big fan of poetry. I enjoy Goete a lot. He's the only name I've consistently been satisfied by. Naturalism is just my tea, as is pretty plain to see in anything I create. I'm bad at reading due to ADHD but I get it done sometimes. Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy is insane. Paradise Lost is great. Can you tell I get my book recommendations from Wendigoon? Holes by Louis Sachar reminds me of kids at Wammy's House but also I like it because every plot point in it leads to a perfect circle and I never fail to be amazed by good writing like that.

My favorite music genre is anything that counts as goth music. Sometimes emo if MSI is emo (I know and I'm sorry. Guilty pleasure). Darkwave & Post-Punk are my go-to for over half the year, but I listen to anything if it captures a vibe well. Anything from Mitski & Penelope Scott to Depeche Mode, Twin Tribes, Vestron Vulture & Bragolin to Lady Gaga (empress of my childhood) to Odetari. Oddly enough, however, my favorite band is Glass Animals. Zaba is a masterpiece, but I love several songs from their other albums too (Hot Sugar, Pork Soda, Life Itself...)

I'm not a huge fan of irl shows but I have enjoyed all 6 seasons of Peaky Blinders for the second time last month and have seen Interview With The Vampire a couple months back. That one also left me extremely surprised with how good it was. I've been disappointed by 'queer' stories before. They were scrubbed of any realism and dumbed down to make them more palatable, which I just couldn't watch for the life of me. As you may know, IWTV is the complete opposite of that lol. I've also peeked into Hannibal a couple times. It was good but I don't have time like that.

Animated shows & manga that I enjoy are:

• Death Note ofc

• Kakegurui (I rewatch s1 & s2 every year. Last year twice, I think)

• [Naoki Urasawa's] Monster (animated by Madhouse♡ I've been considering rewatching that too...)

• Paradise Kiss (just hits different in summer. The outro is Do You Want To by Franz Ferdinand. Love that song)

• Madoka Magica (the themes are Crazy.)

• Chainsaw Man (as fucked as they are, Mappa's creative team absolutely devoured. The outros are all incredible)

• Buddy Daddies (>>>>Spy X Family)

• Dandadan is looking pretty good

• The Summer Hikaru Died manga (impressive pacing, stunning art work, stellar character writing👌)

• Over The Garden Wall🎃🍂🌲🖤

• Arcane (a masterclass in character writing)

Aaand • Gravity Falls because it's literally so good, not just as nostalgia

My favorite movies:

• ARRIVAL (man I have to rewatch that)

• every single Pirates of the Caribbean movie (how had I never seen them as a child? Kinda happy about it though. Now i got to enjoy it with my adult mind spoiler-free)

• Princess Mononoke (to the surprise of no one)

• Spirited Away

• Ponyo (the implied 'children can consent' part is iffy but it's magical. My first Ghibli movie)

• Shawshank Redemption

• Disney's Atlantis (yup. That's what I was super into as a child. Had those on cassette. Every Sunday... I'm convinced the whole experience of the misty town from the second movie has singlehandedly made me who I am today)

• Dou Kyu Sei

• Godzilla 2 (THE CGI???? Also I'm a monster enthusiast)

• Portrait of a Lady on Fire

• that fucking Czech Cinderella movie that's on TV every December

Thank you again for the ask, OP🙏🏻 I love sharing these things. Now my arm hurts

[theclearblue]

favorite sapphic ships (can be from any media), go‼️‼️

Happy to do my part during Lesbian Visibility Week 🫡 (No order except for the last one being my fave)

1. Clarke/Lexa (The 100) - Unfortunately a victim of bury yours gays but first time for me seeing a Sapphic ship and I was like "girls....kissing girls?! Interesting this means nothing to me." (<- liar)

2. Emma/Regina (Once Upon a Time) - Same as before, just one of the earliest f/f ships for me

3. Korra/Asami (TLOK) - Didn't get why this was canon when I first watched it (I had yet to have some Realizations lmao), rewatched it at some point and was like Oh. oooohhhhh

4. Nobara/Maki (JJK) - Nobara is the lesbian of all time omg....the way she talks about Maki and appreciates her SO much. Maki so clearly appreciating her company and her support (but also maybe doesn't even know how much Nobara is so Ready to Fight anyone). They keep getting put on dates in official art....I know what they are....

5. Nami/Vivi (One Piece) - It has been...twenty one years (of irl time) since these two were separated...when they're reunited (which seems like it could hopefully be soon) it's gonna be the biggest Yuri event in the world (to me). LOVE them so much the way they looked out for each other throughout everything and Vivi recognizing Nami's strengths and Nami even though she's scared of fighting getting hurt because she loves Vivi SO much. Girls of all time.

6. Ymir/Historia (AOT) - I've had my issues with AOT so I don't end up talking about it a lot, but this is hands down the best ship. Historia was my fave character and they were IT to each other and the final letter Ymir sends to her is top five most devastating moments in the whole series. Love some tragic lesbians.

7. Hinako/Asashi (Doughnuts Under a Crescent Moon) - Read a lot of published yuri at one point and this one was a standout. Hinako struggles with comphet, anxiety, trying to meet people's expectations of her, and is also good ace rep! The two of them start out as friends and Hinako coming to accept herself is sooo good, probably some of the best canon rep I've read (need an anime for this asap)

8. Rhaenicent (HOTD) - After Game of Thrones bombed so spectacularly at the end I thought I would not like HOTD, but they brought me back on board with the toxic lesbians. Literally inseparable from each other at the start and the one person that they trust, and it just devolves as EVERYONE around them fucks them over in a way where they end up blaming the other and are bitter and hostile about it, but even still after everything you can tell there's some love that never went away truly? Insane.

9. Pharah/Mercy (Overwatch) - ...Exposing myself as an overwatch fan....But these two have some of the gayest voicelines in the entire game (Pharah is my main so I would know lmao. I'm also automatically gay for any Mercy that pocket heals/buffs me ajssllflglh). Fly through the skies together and protect each other...HEAVY flirting while they're at it...Mercy is like the one person to know about Pharah's mommy issues....Yeah I like them lmao.

10. Utena/Anthy (Revolutionary Girl Utena) - Woooaaahhhh who saw this one coming as my fave sapphic ship....everyone? Ok. Anyways ship of all time to me. It's healthy. It's toxic. It's doomed. It's saved. It's canon. I can't even really put into words in one short paragraph why they work so well, but them and their relationship are the heart of RGU. When they get to the point where Utena realizes that what Anthy doesn't need is a prince to save her, rather that Anthy needs her own agency, and Anthy is FINALLY able to leave her abusive situation through that agency, and be able to find and love Utena with full trust. The queer and feminist themes of RGU really just make it unlike any other ship that I've seen.