#watch these actors in other. better things.

[seewetter]

How low can you go, discourse edition!

"Lawful evil" is a dungeons & dragons game mechanic, not a political analysis. You look silly.

"The person in the comic is correct" which person? They are both stick figures!

To have meaningful discussion about politics, including transfeminist politics, comics aren't suited as the main source of theory. Stick figure comics can cause you to have theoretical insights, they can communicate politics, but they mix entertainment and thought. They are easily digested, like a tv series that people binge watch instead of engaging with a text slowly and methodically.

Beth's* (*just the alias Talia gave her, I know) mistake, in my view, is to try and use the form of a frequently published (!) comic to try and discuss things that must be read "in the context of everything that came before it". In other words, complex theory made so bite-sized that an onlooker can easily misconstrue it as a stand-alone statement. Complex theory that sincere people can misconstrue and that bad faith actors can much more easily misrepresent than long-form communication.

The tags that Beth wrote and got screenshotted by the first commenter are not clear enough. "Comic" can mean comic strip (the individual page of the comic we see embedded in the first post of this thread) or it can mean comic as a totality (all green stickfigure comics Beth makes as a totality). And as a result, outsiders unfamiliar with the comics who don't read the backlog have to trust the comic author (a complete stranger) that these comics are sympathetic to transfeminism.

On the other hand, I think we can expect people to read a note like that and read a small sampling of previous comic pages to get a feel for how honest the author is being. It's not too much to expect people to actually sit down and make an informed decision about whether this comic advocates these ideas. An author would usually not leave a note like Beth did. People who "test the waters" to express their bigoted opinions do so wordlessly, leaving the audience to interpret. They want as many people as possible to read the bigotry with their guard down. "This comic is progressive, just check the backlog" is something bigots are only likely to say when they've been attacked and are defending their stuff. It's not something people say while publishing their work.

Personally, I think the comic page that is causing this strong reaction isn't very insightful. The message I'm taking away from it is "some people think the height of (trans) activism is to not have friends with privilege, to only assume the worst about the intentions of privileged people and to justify it with the veneer of liberation theory which does not support that reading". But here's the thing. It's a comic. It doesn't have to blow my min. It doesn't have to liberate. You and I and everybody else can be unimpressed by this page and we can move along with our day or read the backlog for better pages or ignore its existence. The strong reaction from user thegreenbisamurai is hyperbolic. But I think you, dear reader, now have sufficient context. I'm not assigning equal blame, I think blame firmly lies with people who make zero effort to engage with a post that explicitly asks them to engage with more. But I do think this discussion will always be absurd, will always have a sillyness to it, because

#you fuckers better not take this as a generally anti-transfeminist comic#this exists in the context of everything posted before it. you are fully equipped to understand this as a comic about a specific behavior

will never make sense as a request unless we really assume that people are expected to read an entire oeuvre before judging a stick figure comic.

The strong reactions (at least in this thread) appear to be "this comic f*cked up" or "the author is displaying a discriminatory idea to me". Basically various people who read the comic don't get the point the comic is making. Perhaps in part because "wow some people really are over-suspicious and separatist and then blame theory, huh" is not a message that particularly helps people unpack their own suspicions and separatist opinions.

"Privileged people always have bad intentions. It's only a matter of time till they strike and betray you. That's what we have learned from good theory books." is a much more common opinion than "Trans and cis people can't be friends. No more race mixing." Right? The comic aims very broadly at all these tendencies, likely even at tendencies not directly voiced by the stick figures! I mean just look at all the wild hills people try to die on because they have a doomer interpretation of some theory book. Uh, the list is endless! But I can see how the user thegreenbisamurai might feel that the comic lumps all these people together not because it is primarily critiqueing bad reads of theory (for an audience already accustomed to poking fun at both self-destructive hyper-suspicious mindsets and also used to poking fun at separatists) but because, if you don't know what the core critique is or what the audience of this comic believes, it can feel like its lumping every target of criticism together into a strawman group of bad people. Laughable bad people, easily mocked for their backwater beliefs, such as their hillbilly mistrust of cis and transmasc strangers, all of whom are quasi-racist redneck separatists who us civilized open-minded trans people do not take seriously.

That's why 4chan was mentioned, I think. Because 4chan comics represent that kind of "lumping together", strawmanning the Other without nuance. And in a way, Beth's comic does do that too! Like yes, it's written for people who poke fun at these tendencies, who've already agreed that they think all these ideas are bad. The comic doesn't feel the need to justify itself to parts of the trans community who feel these suspicions of cis people or transmasculine people. They are not the intended audience -- and yet the tags below the comic are sort of for them, aren't they. They are expected to have sufficient willingness to read the comic in good faith, to not attack a statement that is built on the unspoken assumption that they are wrong. And that their feelings are misguided, mistaken, and that some introspection is necessary to stop misusing theory to argue that suspicions of privileged people are justified. Which, to be honest, I wish that too! In a perfect world, I want people to just introspect about every opinion they hold, every emotional reaction they have. I want people to approach these comics in good faith and treat them with good humour and a grain of salt.

But for many people, this hyper-suspicion is dead serious. It's a defense mechanism. And their reading of theory is strongly shaped by the fact that these theory books gave them more information about worrisome things in society. That's one of their takeaways from transfeminist literature, because that's what they were looking for: things to watch out for, potential dangers.

I really don't think it makes sense to expect people to make that leap. I know there are trans people out there who have convinced themselves that no trans person has a happy relationship with their parents! That your parents can't love you and will always betray you. These are assumptions and sweeping assertions made from a raw emotional place. A place of stupidity. They can't be fixed by telling people to reconsider, because these ideas have some kind of "use" for people. I think it's important to remember how lonely some trans people are, how dependent some trans people are on the trans community -- how dependent some transfem people are on the transfem communities around them. How risky it can be (or feel) to reach out to a privileged person. Heck, I am hyper-cautious about it myself. Sometimes it's easier to delude oneself that these are iron laws of reality, that no one out there is happy among cis or transmasc friends or also comforting: being right, always, always being proven right eventually, and not having to bear the pain that reality is unpredictable and weird, preferring predictable patterns like that everyone will predictably betray you.

Bad takes? In my trans community? It's more likely than you...get it, it's a meme, I hate myself.

Anyway, I don't expect Beth to not make funny stick figure comics. I don't know if she has a financial incentive to post all the time, but she may have. And if there's a financial (or otherwise) incentive to post a lot, sometimes posters like that will express thoughts badly. That's the nature of how mass production works. If I make a comic every week, I may just not find the time to really make the message perfect. I know this. That's why I take Beth's comics with a grain of salt -- I smile at some when I come across them, I think others (like this one) are meaningless. There's even some I disagree with (I don't have examples for that, I'm not a regular reader).

But equally I don't expect people on Tumblr to be able to parse the meaning of a comic or to read a backlog of comics. Remember the Neil Gaiman revelations of the past few weeks? In the aftermath of that, there was a post going around that claims that Gaiman (on top of being a horrific serial abuser) ripped off a small author. But I've also come across a counter-claim, that some guy on the internet invented the similarities between Gaiman's Sandman story and the universe of this small author wholecloth. For clout! I say all this because I don't have the time "read the backlog". Maybe in a few years, I'll have the money and time to read the small author and compare her work to what I know of Sandman (which is from the tv series, never read the comics). But until then, I can only relate to it with ignorance. I don't know! The internet is full of green stick figure comics or posts making accusations. And we have to make ethical judgment calls. I think thegreenbisamurai's post is actually fairly subdued, the typical grumblings of someone who is unconvinced by an argument and finds it unfair (for pretty understandable reasons!). I also think Beth's comic is fine, nothing that needs to change about it. And I find Talia Bhatt's responses fine too! So in short, I don't really think there is much to talk about here.

But I do want to address summertimesadnessgirl's reaction.

"This is about Christianity, right?"

It is? How so? Ok, I've read the whole post and I guess I'll respond with more substance later...but, to employ a Christian rhetorical figure, what a hell of an opening statement!

"Look.

This isn't complicated.

It actually is possible for double think to exist which causes people to support ideology which ruins the lives of people they see every day and are "nice" to."

I think it is helpful to quote the people you respond to. When you don't quote them, you end up writing about niceness and doublethink and Christianity and talking about various things other people aren't explicitly talking about and it comes across like you are from another planet.

The thing summertimesadnessgirl is trying to say (I think) is that a person like Beth can be a transfeminist with hypocritical (transphobic, transmisogynistic) tendencies.

I take it that had summertimesadnessgirl clearly stated this, it would be far less confusing to read!

"They teach it to people who grow up in Christianity, for sure."

There are 2,000,000,000 people on this planet who grow up in a Christian tradition. Do you know how many German Catholics have committed themselves to continuous mass protests against a sexist, homophobic and transphobic church doctrine? Have you seen the uproar?

Ok, that's not the point though, is it. Chilean or German Catholics and Unitarian Universalists may be chill people, but current Catholic doctrine is monstrous yet "nice", and evangelicals like John MacArthur dare to say that we live on a "disposable" planet. Nietzsche had a point when he critiqued the Christian idea of love that masks hate. So I'll grant summertimesadnessgirl that you can convince good people to do evil things through something like a religion. You can convince people to define "nice" or "virtuous" in ways that are destructive and horrible.

"They teach it to people who grow up with white supremacy and bigotry."

I wouldn't be so sure. A lot of white supremacists know that they are evil. H.P. Lovecraft is the rare historical figure whose racism came from genuine ignorance about foreign cultures (his parents were mostly in mental institutions, he grew up alone next to a bookshelf full of books with racist propaganda about Africa and the Middle-East) -- and notably, Lovecraft came to regret much of his ideas and writings towards the end of his life. But like most racists know that they are just fantasizing the Other into existence. Putin's racist advisor Aleksandr Dugin knows that Russia doesn't really have "it's own reality", he just says that because it confuses people. The darling of the modern alt-right, Julius Evola argued for racial supremacy "on spiritual grounds" just because he knew nobody could argue with him on that terrain. Nazi Germany declared their neighbours, the French, to be subhuman and their culturally completely alien allies, the Japanese, to be "Yellow Aryans". Does that sound like a conclusion reached naively, through ignorance? Or does it sound like political calculation?

But okay, that's not the point either, is it. Yes, good people can internalize racial messaging. People can hate racism yet have difficulties interacting with racial minorities.

And yes, those observations do apply to this comic. A hypothetical version of the comic's author could promote hostility towards some important liberatory goals! It's possible.

I don't think so though, and I have reason to be wary of such accusations.

Separatism (Group A can't be friends with Group B) is historically associated exclusively with bigots. Even modern black supremacists like Gazi Kodzo, who argue black and white people can't befriend each other, are in bed with the alt right (Kodzo also believes that Hitler did nothing wrong, and his insistence that he's gay and a socialist don't really help convince me that his anti-white-black friendship stance offers any kind of helpful future to anyone)

Suspicions of ill intentions and betrayal are fine, but people who use these suspicions as preaching material and get mad when someone trusts other people are preventing our ability as a transgender movement to not remain isolated and politically removed from the gears that enable us to prevent our extermination.

The comics method that people should not read into theory and should instead be self-reflective is not some secretly bigoted opinion.

"It's part of lawful evil culture."

That's a 5. Oh, I'm so sorry. The wisdom check fails and you're going to have to roll for initiative. Look, I don't think these are drow you're attacking, I think they're just other trans people. Oh no! Your character won't be able to stop her attack. I'm so sorry.

"Lawful evil culture includes even people who engage in doing a behavior themselves on a regular and consistent basis and claim to love the behavior and then work to make the behavior illegal and punish people who make the behavior possible-"

Give me an example.

I hate to put people on the spot like this, but I think what happened here is this: summertimesadnessgirl had a (genuine, not joking!) epiphany and is articulating something worth articulating: that there are often people who seem to be on our side but then back legal efforts that go in the exact opposite direction. Example: Kyrsten Sinema, a bisexual activist whose radical ideas seem to have evaporated in her role as a politician in Washington. Example: overhyped New York mayor Cuomo, who spoke the language of progressive activism and intersectionality so well, that his sudden betrayal of Black Lives Matter activists was all the more horrific!

But without examples, people don't know what you're talking about.

Other examples may include Christian hate preachers like Jerry Falwell who are caught with male prostitutes (Falwell famously tried to excuse his behaviour and said something along the lines of "to understand evil, you have to explore evil").

But crucially, your examples need to work. Falwell is a bad analogy for this comic, because Falwell is a hate preacher who secretly betrays his hateful community. Cuomo and Sinema are bad analogies because neither are sincere, Sinema may have morphed into a monster over time, or perhaps both were always dishonest people just waiting to manipulate progressives for political gain. None of these examples, as much as they express the duality of speaking vs doing, are really examples of a well-meaning person passing a horror law!

Perhaps the closest analogy, in the legal realm, of genuinely well-meaning progressive people unleashing horror on minorities happened in Florida under Ron DeSantis, who passed some kind of anti-LGBT legislation that found a lot of support among liberals. But importantly, those liberals didn't realize what the legislation did in its entirety. It was framed as a support for parents, I believe, and quite a few liberals just didn't look at the proposal in detail.

Plenty of material for summertimesadnessgirl to pontificate about "lawful evil culture" and confirm that lawful evil culture works exactly as defined by using examples... but if these examples are unrelated to this comic, then...then why?

"Like homophobic and trans phobic people who vote to have rights taken away from queer people while crossdressing in their sex lives or having gay sex, or people who regularly use porn and vote to have porn censored and make the lives of people who are consenting adults legally producing porn difficult. Those things are a regular feature of the cognitive dissonance in lawful evil culture."

Some people want power. Bigots are quick to give power to those who support their bigotry.

The official biography of Jarosław Kaczynski (the right-wing former leader of Catholic supremacists in Poland) states that in university, Kaczynski went to gender consultation. So it's possible Kaczynski, someone who has done harm to queer and trans people at the highest level, is a closeted transfem. But what summertimesadnessgirl has to prove is that the Kaczynski's of the world aren't aware of what they are doing. That they go to gender consultation, get positive vibe about being trans and then join the leopards eating faces party through sheer cognitive dissonance.

That's what's so hard to believe about the argument.

Like I understand Kanye West watches porn and wants it banned. But I'm pretty sure Kanye West feels guilt at his porn consumption. He calls himself a porn addict. He thinks something bad is being done to him, he interprets the pleasure he feels through the frame of an evil industry that he blames for his feelings.

The Jerry Falwell's and Jarosław Kaczynski's of the world may crossdress in bed (I don't know) but they aren't simultaneously excited about promoting queer rights and also trying to get queer people killed. That's not how cognitive dissonance works.

"Lawful evil culture will argue that something the person does is fun and they like it, but it's a net negative for society, or that it's out of it's proper place, or some other thing."

Yes, but what does this have to do with this comic?

"There are a bunch of reasons they do this."

Yes, but how does this relate to this comic?

"But pretending that a group of people who follow all belief system that says "everyone in this group deserves this bad outcome" will not turn on you because they are nice doesn't work."

The comic differentiates between two types of groups: demographics (men, women, trans people, cis people, transmasculine people, transfeminine people) and agents of marginalization (transphobes, transmisogynists, etc.). You don't seem to? Should I believe that Kaczynski, a Christian nationalist, is safe to be around? Hell no, I'm not suicidal! Should I believe that my friend Xander, a trans guy who has never said or done anything cruel to me and whom I want to protect from his bigoted family, who does not follow a belief system that "everyone in this group deserves this bad outcome"... should I believe this friend of mine will betray me? That this is a law of nature? That I must be afraid of him, though he is a decade younger than me? Do I need to quiver in fear?

People are people. I've met transmasc genderfluid people who have treated me without the barest shred of consideration or kindness and projected their trauma onto me with zero consideration for what transfems go through and trans men who have been far kinder, who never hurt me in any way. There is no neat box that will quickly tell you who is safe, there are only (behavioural) red flags.

rationalize

[ID: Three panel comic with crudely drawn stick people

Panel 1: A leaf green person is talking to a grass green person with a hat and glasses.

Leaf: "And then Orange said that-"

Grass: "Orange"? Your friend is orange?"

Leaf: "Yeah?"

Grass: "Why do you have non-green friends? Don't you know about misoviridy??"

Leaf: "…I have plenty of non-green friends. I have grayscale friends, even."

Panel 2: Grass Green solemnly holds Leaf Green's shoulder.

Grass: "Look. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but every single misoviridy-exempt friend you have secretly hates you.

Leaf: "Uh. That is not true."

Grass: "It's basic viridist theory. Every single moment they're around you, they're thinking about it."

Panel 3: The grass green person tips their hat down.

Grass: "Look. I get it. You're naive and uninformed. You don't know better. But read "Pruning Greens." Then you will understand."

Leaf: "I already read that. It did not say the things you are saying."

Grass: "You will see. It is inevitable."

Leaf: "No I think you're just finding a new way to rationalize really unhealthy thought patterns here actually"

End ID.]

Start - Previous - Next

[justtheclippy]

Tips and FAQ for Asks

Hello beautiful humans, I want to do my best to get to everyone's asks so here are a few things you can do to help make that happen! (if you're looking for the cast stream master list, skip to the bottom)

Please don't spam the same question repeatedly. I will get to you eventually, I promise! But when you submit the exact same thing multiple times, it just slows me down. I've got one single brain cell, please have mercy.

No spoiler requests. I cannot tell you anything about future episodes, when they will come out, what will happen to certain characters, how the story ends etc. We're limited on what we can say in general until more episodes release. The entire cast has signed NDAs (non disclosure agreement) preventing us from revealing anything, but more than that, we wouldn't want to ruin your experience of watching and engaging with the show organically! Trust me, just enjoy the ride, it's better that way.

Don't take anything too seriously. Please keep in mind most of these answers will just be for fun. My thoughts and opinions on the character, both for silly things like favorite dessert and more serious things like character analysis, are not hard and fast canon. Same goes for any of the actors. We can speculate about our characters, we know and understand them well, but when in doubt, assume its allllllllllllll non-canonical haha

Read through previous asks. This will help prevent asking things I've already answered. I'm going to be tagging (i swear I'll do it fr) my answers with #amanda asks and #tadc asks so you can find them more easily. If you do ask a question I've already answered IT'S OK DON'T PANIC I won't be upset haha

Even though I'll be tagging my answers so you can easily find them, here are a few frequently asked questions just to get them out of the way. If you decide to ask me something I've already answered, or something that goes against the guidelines above, I'll probably skip it, you silly geese.

Q: I've seen people use several different pronouns for you, what are your preferred pronouns? A: They/them and I prefer masc leaning terms generally! I'm queer, NB and very open about my identity. But people will sometimes use she/her because they don't know. I will never get upset with someone for not knowing- it's ok. But now that you've read this, you know! So you can go forth educated. You're welcome to correct anyone who doesn't know, but please be kind to each other. We've all been the person who didn't know before.

Q: What do you think of X ship? A: I love and support all the ships! Ships are part of a healthy fandom, keep creating content that makes you feel seen and that YOU want to see, that's the foundation of creativity. And if anyone disagrees with you, remind them that a lot of classics are just fanfiction about the gods at the time. It's always been here.

Q: What is your favorite ship? A: Bunnydoll and Buttonblossom, because the dynamics are so much fun.

Q: Do you like X AU? A: Yes. It doesn't matter what it is, yes. I love the AUs and if it's a new one, you better include a link so I can find it. I want all of them, thank you so muuuuuuuuch~

Q: Have you seen or played X game/show/movie/meme etc.? A: Always happy to chat about other media! But if you wanna ask about something specific, please include a link or explanation because lets be just so very honest, half the time my brain is off in adhd land so there's a good chance I'll have no idea what you're talking about at first.

Q: Have you watched Raggedy Ann & Andy: A Musical Adventure? A: Not yet! But due to VERY POPULAR REQUEST I will be putting together a watch stream to watch it live with yall. Once that's happened, I'll put the link here.

Q: Have you seen Queen's second game and will you be playing it? A: Yes, we've all seen the trailer and we're very excited! We will be playing it as a full cast, just like last time, as soon as the game is finished. For now, please go enjoy the demo and support the team! Once it's out and we're ready to stream it, I'll post the link here.

Q: Can you come to X convention? A: I will come to any convention that yall want to see me at!

BUT

In order for that to happen, you have to request me directly with the convention. Most will have either a request form on their site or a specific email for requests. Just write in that you would like to see me at their event, and then they will get in touch with my agent to book me!

Q: Can I request a song for you to sing? A: Of course! I promise yall I'll do my best to put out more songs this year. If there's a cover you want me to consider doing, or an artist/composer you'd like to hear me work with, let me know!

Outside of that, if you just want a little clip, you can drop requests in the asks and if I know the song I might record a bit. This is COMPLETELY dependent on time, especially if I'm busy. Please understand ❤️

You can also make requests during stream signings, which is easier to accommodate in the moment. Just put the request in the order notes, and I'll sing a little bit for you while I sign IF I know the song. So choose wisely.

Q: Can I write an ask just to show you cool stuff or tell you you're awesome? A: Of course you can! You can also tag me in stuff, that's ok too. I appreciate all the love and support yall have shown for me, Ragatha and the show in general. Yall are truly incredible. ❤️

Q: Do you have a PO Box so we can send you stuff? A: I'm setting it up THIS WEEK. I will post it here when it's ready.

Q: Where can I find X stream that the cast did? A: Moving forward, I will keep a master list of our group streams in order of date aired, to the best of my ability. If I miss one, let me know and I'll get it on here!

Saberspark TADC Cast Interview

Streamily Signing #1 (Amanda, Michael, Alex, Marissa)

Streamily Signing #2 (Amanda and Michael)

Streamily Signing #3 (Amanda and Sean)

Streamily Signing #4 (Amanda, Sean, Alex, Michael, Marissa, Vera, Hamish)

TADC Fan Game Stream: Game 1

Streamily Signing #5 (Amanda, Alex, Ashley, Sean, Michael, Marissa, Vera, Hamish, Wiz)

Fast Food Simulator Charity Stream (Amanda, Lizzie, Marissa, Michael, Ashley)

[thanosscross]

omgg I really loves your recent fic about twin! jiyong!! can I request bigbang and her group got invited to some variety shows and since jiyong and y/n is twins, they got ask to do some twins telepathy, where they sit face to face on a chairs with their hands connected to each other lolololll it would be so funny!

I absolutely love this idea! Love love love it!!

Double, Double, Combo part 3/? - Choi Seung Hyun/T.O.P x reader + Twin! Ji-Yong

Summary: After agreeing to go to a variety show with the boys, you all end up having fun doing impressions of each other, and answering fan questions, afterwards, you overhear your new boyfriend explaining exactly when he first loved you.

Warnings: None lovelies! <33

After a long, long talk with your brother, you found common ground, You were dating Seung Hyun, even if he didn't like it, but you would make sure you weren't ruining any friendships between your groups in the process. On your last day of break, all eight of you were asked to appear on a variety show, which you happily agreed to, knowing you always had the most fun doing their cute little challenges and games.

As you made your way onto the set, you smiled brightly, taking notice to the different things they had laid out for the episode. As the director called action, you all quickly introduced yourselves "So! With that being said! Let's go into our first section of tonight's episode! Fans want to know these questions, first up, Tae-Yang" The host smiled, as Tae-Yang answered his question, you couldn't help but nod along to the music playing in your head. Ji-Yong taking notice to you not paying attention, quickly shot you a look, without needing to see it, you quickly sat up straight, listening closely to your brother's bandmate. "Woah! That helps lead into our next question, for the twins! Fans want to know, with how you interact on stage, do you have magic twin telepathy?" The host asked playfully, causing you and Ji to look at each other laughing loudly "I mean..I don't think so, I just like to believe I can read my brother's expressions well" You giggled, causing the host to give you a skeptical look "That's what I would say if I was hiding my super power too, would you mind showing us then. if you don't have telepathy, it shouldn't be an issue, right?" He asked teasingly, you just shook your head giggling as you and your brother moved to the bright green mat on the floor, your dress riding up slightly, due to you sitting on your knees in front of Ji, him sitting the same way, as Seung Hyun was quick to take his suit jacket and lay it over your lap to keep you covered.

Trying to stop your giggles as your brother dramatically placed his hands on your head "Really? I worked hard on my hair!" You giggled loudly, placing your hands on his face dramatically before closing your eyes tightly "Okay! Y/n, what is your brother thinking of?" The host asked, smirking to yourself you giggled loudly "That Y/n is the better twin" You laughed, your brother's eyes opening quickly as he laughed "Yea right! In your dreams, Yeo-dongsaeng!" he laughed, placing his hands back on your head, trying his best to keep his laughs suppressed as he started to think of something to say for what you were thinking of. "G-Dragon?" The host asked, using his question cards to hide his smile "Y/n thinks Seung Hyun is cute" He laughed, watching as your cheeks grew red with a blush, you both had decided that you'd keep things private for now, so now you had to channel your inner actor, and act like you weren't currently sleeping in Seung Hyun's bed at night. "I do not, oppa! I'd date Dae-Sung before I would T.O.P!" You whined loudly, glancing at Seung Hyun as you spoke, quickly shooting your brother a playful glare as him and your shared friends, laughed at your reaction. "Okay! Okay! Before this turns into a dating show! Let's move on to our next question." The host shouted loudly as he laughed, as you moved from section to section, you laughed as your brother spoke about his and the boys' impressions "Oh no, I like to think I have a pretty good impression of my brother, but Su-mi has the absolute best" You smiled brightly turning the attention to your best friend of your group, she just giggled softly as she nodded "It's easy! Especially if he's singing!" She laughed softly, before singing his verse to Bae Bae, you quickly picking up where she ends, trying to remember Seung Hyun's part the best you could, stumbling over your words at the end "I'm sorry! I'm flustered!" You giggled covering your face "Y/n and I like to cover their songs whenever we're bored in the studio" Your friend admitted as she giggled, you just gasped dramatically "Su-mi! You can't say things like! Ji-Yong might start thinking I actually like him being my brother!" You teased laughing, watching as your brother laughing loudly. "So, we had something else planned, but with all this new knowledge, I think, we should do an impression of groups? Boys if you can perform one of the girls' songs better than they can one of yours, they have to buy you anything you want as a group collectively, girls same goes for you" The host explained laughing, motioning you all over to find what song you wanted to perform.

What you thought was the only round, was fun, as soon as you and your friends wrapped up your performance, the host laughed "Okay! Okay! That was impressive from both sides! BigBang, you were on top of that one! but now, I want to see the two who tried the hardest compete, T.O.P! Y/n! Please step forward to pick a song!" The host laughed, panting you looked at him in shock "What!? Again!?" You playfully shouted as you slowly walked over, scrolling through the songlist again, giggling as you pressed yours quickly, adding it to play after Seung Hyun's choice, there was no way you were going first, you needed a breather first. You watched as Seung Hyun swung his hips to your music, turning his head to look at the camera over his shoulder as he started to sing along with the lyrics playing through the speakers. As it got to the chorus, Seung Hyun made his way to you, cupping your cheeks as he sang before turning away dramatically as he laughed, having to take a moment to compose himself again before finishing out the song. You and your brother were in tears laughing, finding it more than entertaining watching Seung Hyun put his all into trying to pretend to be you, as he took a seat next to Ji-Yong, he smirked "Top that, Y/n" He said playfully, swiping his imaginary long hair over his shoulder as you stood up laughing.

As the music for 'Doom Dada' played, you giggled, trying to stay on beat as you turned around, starting to rap the first verse, throwing your own spin on his choreography as you started to sing the chorus. Seung Hyun couldn't hold back his laughs watching you try your best to act like him on stage. Getting into the music more, you nodded along as you sung the second chorus, feeling nervous as you heard the instrumental for the ending rap build up. As you steadied yourself, you tried to keep up, proving successful until the last few lines, instead trying to hide it by just repeating 'dadada' in the same tone as the rap. Seung Hyun was quick to notice, laughing loudly as he jumped to his feet pointing at you "I win! I win! She messed up!" He laughed jokingly, watching as you blushed letting your head drop in defeat "What can I say? Nobody can do it like T.O.P" You giggled, high fiving your boyfriend as you walked past, taking a seat again next to your brother, who was still laughing at your attempt to rap.

Whenever the Variety show was finished filming, you were all rushed back to the hotel for rehearsals, which ended up running until about two AM. Seung Hyun quick to follow you back to your group's side of the suite, smiling as you scooted over in your bed motioning for Seung Hyun to lay down "You looked good in rehearsals today" He smiled softly, wrapping an arm around your waist to pull you close to him "Thank you, handsome, You looked amazing" You smiled, cupping his cheek gently as you sighed "What was that for?" He chuckled, moving his hand to mimic yours "I just..- You're awesome and I'm so happy with you" You sighed, not being able to find the words to match your feelings correctly, pecking his lips gently before leaning against the pillows "I'm happy with you, Jagiya" He smiled, pressing his lips to your forehead gently before pulling away, both of you laying there whispering to each other until you finally fell asleep.

Waking up the next morning, you'd be left in your bed, alone, Seung Hyun sitting in the living room talking quietly with your brother. "So you understand, then?" Ji-Yong asked softly, glancing towards your bedroom door and then Seung Hyun "It's not that I don't want you together, I'm happy! I just..if something ever happened between you two..you understand I'd always be on her side" Ji-Yong rephrased, he hated saying it out loud, especially because Seung Hyun was his hyung, someone who he'd always stand by, but at the end of the day, but you were also his twin sister, so it was always you over anybody at the end of the day. "Yes, Ji, I understand, I promise, it won't ever come down to that" Seung Hyun smiled softly, giving his friend a soft hug "I've loved Y/n since she first ran into the studio, yelling at you for telling your mother that she was wearing a two piece dress for her first show" He chuckled softly, running a hand through his hair nervously "You remember that?" Ji-Yong laughed, in shock his friend remembered something that was from your debut, Seung Hyun just nodded, chuckling softly "Yes, I do remember it, she was so cute! The way she just barreled through the doors and boys, just to yell at you for being a 'tattletale'" Seung Hyun replied, smiling softly, a blush quickly rising to his cheeks as he noticed you tiredly making your way into the living room area.

"Kwon Ji-Yong, if you're spilling my secrets again, I might just have to fucking kill you" You threatened, watching as he gave you a shocked look "No! I was talking with my friend!" he protested in reply as you crossed your arms "My boyfriend" You argued, moving to sit down next to Seung Hyun, leaning into his side as he wrapped his arm around you "Okay, Okay, children" Seung Hyun jokingly called out, laughing as you both stopped and looked at him, you gave your brother one last playful glare before looking back towards the older male. "Why didn't you wake me up?" You asked softly, pulling your knees to your chest as you tilted your head, Seung Hyun just smiled at you, pressing a quick kiss to your lips before glancing at your brother "Ji woke me up, and asked if I'd let you sleep" He replied, pulling you close as Ji-Yong gasped playfully "You know, I'm feeling very attacked right now" He joked, laughing softly as you grabbed your brother's arm playfully "I'm so sorry, I love you, Oppa, you're an amazing big brother" You giggled, watching as he playfully thanked you, almost like he was accepting an award, causing you to giggle loudly, leaning back against the couch.

Stage rehearsals were slightly stressful, this time going without any issues other than certain mics not working, or dancers not remembering their choreography. Standing on the stage, you laughed loudly "Hi, welcome to my tv show, called...I don't know" You giggled, motioning for you brother and the choreographer to follow you backstage, laughing loudly as you noticed Dae-Sung on Seung Hyun's shoulders, Tae-Yang trying his best to stay in a handstand. Su-Mi and the other girls trying their best to stay posed like the boys during their sets "Where I have to live and work with this" You replied finally through giggles, squealing as you noticed your brother recording you all as they both laughed. As Seung Hyun let Dae-Sung down, he quickly rushed to your side, smiling "Want to go out for dinner tonight, Jagiya?" He asked lowly as he leaned down closer to your ear "Of course, but don't speak to me like that again" You giggled softly, smacking his arm playfully "it's hot" You added on before making your way over to the sound box, dropping off your equipment, that way they could charge them up for your show tomorrow tonight.

Ji-Yong watched as you and Seung Hyun walked out together, feeling himself smile softly "So! Ji! What do you think about those two?" Dae-Sung giggled, Su-Mi close behind smiling "Aren't they adorable together?" She asked, smiling as Ji-Yong nodded in agreement "I'm happy seeing my yeo-donsaeng happy, and I'm happy seeing hyung happy, and that's all that matters right?" He replied, giving his bandmate a worried look "You just don't want to see them hurt" Dae-Sung assumed, watching as his friend nodded softly "Have hope in them, they're both mature adults, any issues they have, I'm sure they'll work it out in a mature civil way" Su-Mi smiled, trying to convince your brother that you and Seung Hyun were locked in together. "R-Right, right" Ji-Yong agreed, messing with his rings.

You and Seung Hyun on the other hand, would be in the hotel room, smacking each other with pillows as you argued playfully over where to eat "Okay! Okay! You win!" You giggled loudly as you dropped onto the bed, playfully falling limp as Seung Hyun laughed "Yes! I promise, You'll love this place, Jagiya" He smiled, leaning over to kiss you softly, you happily sat up, kissing him back, pouting whenever he pulled away "Ready to go eat?" He smiled, knowing you were now upset over him pulling away "I guess, only if you kiss me one more time" You laughed, resting your hand on the back of his neck as you pulled him into another kiss.

--

What do you think lovelies? Two posts in a row tonight! Excited to hear from you all!! <333

--

Taglist!!

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[buckyandstan]

✪ pairings: Sebastian Stan x Fem!Reader

✪ summary: Reader and Seb can’t deny the tension that was created while shooting their last movie together

✪ warnings: adult content 18+, swearing, heavy flirting, use of y/n, friends to lovers, unprotected, general filth

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Everything was surreal.

The flashing of the cameras, the fans and photographers screaming your name, you’ve been through this, what feels like a hundred times, but you can never truly believe that this is your life.

You smoothed over the fabric, turning slightly to allow the photographers to get their shots of your custom gown.

“Beautiful. Beautiful.”

“Just a few more!”

“Turn slightly the other way!”

“Perfect!”

You smile, moving down to the next mark and suddenly the crowd grows loud once again. You look back, unable to fight the smile as you see Sebastian walking down the red carpet behind you.

It doesn’t take him long to find you, his eyes lingering on you until you look away to move down the line.

You go through a few more marks before you’re at your first interviewer, smiling and chatting, when all of a sudden, she gasps, “Oh my gosh, Hi!”

You go to look around, but stop when a hand lays on your waist, and lips press to your cheek, “Hello, hello.” Sebastian smiles, “You look amazing, doesn’t she look amazing!”

The interviewer nods, “Yes she does, but so do you!”

“Oh please, this old thing doesn’t compare to what she’s wearing, what is that custom?” He looks you up and down and you nod with a smile, “It sure is.”

He smirks, “Beautiful. Hey, I’ll catch up with you in a sec, alright? Don’t go far.” He points to you as he walks away and you smile, feeling the heat in your cheeks grow hotter as you look back at the lady in front of you, “He’s such a sweetheart, is he not?”

She laughs, “Oh I just love him. Speaking of.” She smiles, “You two just finished up a movie together? How was that? Can you give us any insider tidbits on that?”

“I don’t think I can give away, too much, but working with Seb is always a pleasure. He’s such a sweetheart, and he’s so professional. He is always makes sure that when we’re shooting certain scenes that I’m good, everyone else is good. He’s just amazing all around.”

“By certain scenes.” She raises her brows, smiling as she leans in, “Does that mean we’re getting a y/n and Sebastian spice scene?”

You shrug, “I guess you’ll just have to find out when you watch the movie later on this year.” You laugh, “I gotta go. I love you!” You hug the woman and walk away.

Sebastian’s eyes never leave you as he speaks with other people. He motions for you to come over and you follow his motion, walking over and wrapping your arm around his waist, “Hi!”

“There she is! Sebastian here was just talking about how you’re a better movie star than him, I want to see if that’s true or not.” The guy asks, “What are your thoughts on that?”

“Oh, I mean. Come on. It’s a no brainer.” You laugh, looking up at Sebastian, “If he said it, it must be true, right?”

“I mean, he speaks pretty highly of you, y/n. How about you, do you think he’s one of the best actors to work with?”

You nod, “Oh yes. He’s by far my favorite to work with.”

“See.” Sebastian laughs, “I told you I was her favorite.”

The guy laughs, “I will never doubt you again, Mr. Stan.” He looks at you, “Where are you tonight? What table are you seated at?”

“Table six.”

“That’s where I’m at.” He pulls you in closer to him and you smile, “That’s where I’m headed in next.” You point, “I’ll see you later.” You squeeze the interviewers shoulder and walk away, Sebastian’s eyes burning into the back of you with such heat.

Ever since you started filming the movie that just wrapped, there’s been tension between you and Seb. A lot of heavy tension that clouds your mind no matter how hard you try not to think about him.

“Couldn’t have waited for me?” Sebastian laughs as he walks up to take your hand. You laugh, reaching down to pull up your dress so you don’t trip and fall down the steps, “I didn’t know you were done talking.”

He chuckles, “Yeah well.”

You reach the bottom and interlock your arm with his. As you make your way to your table, you stop and chat quickly with a few other nominees and what not.

Sebastian was always the first to compliment you, showing you off to others which honestly kind of confused you.

You and him were super close, sure, that’s what filming intimate scenes with someone does. A part of you thought he knew what was there, but you didn’t want to say or ask because you didn’t want to risk everything going awkward.

“Here we go.” He pulls your chair out for you, helping you move in and bending down to move your dress away from the foot traffic, “Do you need anything?”

You shake your head, “No, I’m good.”

“Alright.” He sits down next to you, and for the rest of the time between now and the award show starting, you both chatted with each other, other people who walked by and at the table.

You didn’t start to feel really nervous until the lights went down and the spot light fell onto the host.

“Good evening everyone, and welcome to the Golden Globes.”

You take a deep breath and Sebastian looks over at you, “Are you alright?” You nod, “I’m so nervous right now.”

He chuckles, “Trust me.” He takes your hand, giving it a squeeze, “You have this award show in the bag, sweetheart.” He gives you a wink and you felt a calm wash over you.

You held his hand all the way up to his category. When they announced his name, you were pulled up from your chair and into a hug and you were the loudest one cheering for him.

“Oh, my gosh. Wow.” He laughs, “I really wasn’t expecting this.” The crowd laughs and he continues to deliver his quick speech, ending it with a shoutout to you, “I have to dedicate this award to the costar that pushed me to do my absolute best. She worked with me day in and day out, and I just cannot thank you so being there every step of the way. Thank you, y/n.”

You smile, tilting your head as you watch him walk off stage. He walks back up to you and pulls you into a tight hug, “Now it’s your turn.”

You smile, sitting down in your chair, and your hand moves back to hold his. After a few categories, it was finally yours.

“And the Golden Globe for best lead actress in a drama goes to… y/n y/l/n!”

Your jaw drops and you look at Sebastian. He pulls you to your feet and kisses your cheek, “Did I not tell you!? Now go!”

He was the loudest one cheering for you as you made your way up to the stage. You accepted the award and walk to the mic, “Are you kidding me?” You pout, glancing down at the award in your hand, “This means the absolute world to me. Thank you so much for entrusting me with taking on this role. I will remember this role for the rest of my life, it has changed me in so many ways.” You sigh, “And since Seb set the bar, I just want to dedicate this to not only him, but the fans of this movie. Him and you combined, you both just pushed me to do my absolute best and I’m truly so greatful. I love you so so much. Thank you.”

You back away from the mic and walk towards the steps. You make your way back to the table and throw yourself into Sebastian, hugging him tight.

His hands press into your back and he sighs, “God, I am so proud of you right now.”

You smile, leaning back to smile and thank everyone around you who congratulates you. You sit back down and immediately feel his hand on your leg. You look over at him and he smiles, “How does it feel?”

“How does what feel?” You tilt your head he laughs, “Winning, of course.”

You laugh, “Oh, I thought you meant..” you point to his hand and he raises his brows, “Well now you have me curious about that, too, sweetheart.”

You smirk, “Oh yeah?”

He laughs, shaking his head as his thumb brushes over the soft material resting on your leg.

He definitely knew what you thought he knew.

After the show, you and Sebastian make your way to get pictures done. As you’re standing together, he leans in, turning his head back to whisper something into your ear, “What do you say, after this we skip the whole after party bit and go straight back to the hotel?”

You nod, clearing your throat, “Sounds like a great idea.” You smile, snapping back into your star side as the cameras take a few more snaps.

“Okay, now just y/n, please.”

Sebastian moves away, moving to stand to the side as he watches you bask in the love and fame.

You glance over at him, your smile growing bigger as he smiles at you. You were stuck in a trance, it took a few times of your name being called for you to snap back into it.

You laugh, covering up your nervousness of being caught staring at him, “Sorry.” You move out of the way, turning to watch him stand in your place, and your trance returned.

He was beautiful, inside and out. Being able to work so closely with him and discover his true personality was a godsend to you.

It’s not everyday you get to fall in love with a close friend and then retaliate with the same feelings.

You watch as he thanks the photographers as he walks towards you, his arm sliding around your waist as he guides you forward towards the doors, “I’m greatful, don’t get me wrong, but that felt like it took forever.”

You laugh at his words, “I know exactly what you mean, I love getting the awards, but I’d much rather be out of this dress and laying in a comfy bed.”

He leans in, his voice low, “Well you’re in luck, because I can help with both of those thing.” He leans back and all you can do is smirk, shaking your head as you make your way to his car.

The driver opens the door and Sebastian helps you in bexors getting in behind you, “Hotel, please.” The driver nods and Sebastian takes your hand into his, “Thank you.”

He looks over at you and you look at him, giving him a smile, “What?”

He shakes his head, “Nothing, nothing at all.” He chuckles, “I just.. can’t get over how beautiful you look tonight.”

“Oh, so I don’t look beautiful any other day?” You tease and he scoffs, “Don’t be doing that. You know you’re beautiful.” He looks away, “Partly why I can’t keep my eyes off of you.”

“I’m sorry, what was that last part?” You look over at him and he laughs, looking back at you. He doesn’t say anything, but as soon as you go to, he leans in quickly, cupping your cheek with his hand, “You heard me.”

His lips crash onto yours and you gasp against his lips.

He leans back, eyes moving from your lips to your eyes before you pull him back in by his suit jacket. He moves closer to you, hand on your thigh as his other slides around to grip the back of your neck.

You tilt your head to the side, biting down onto your lip as his trail down under your jaw. He kisses back to your ear, whispering lowly, “I’ve thought about you all damn night.”

“So have I.” You lean back, eyes staying on his before you close the space once again.

The car comes to a stop and Sebastian quickly moves to get out, taking your hand as you slide over to the open door. He helps you step out and you’re being led inside almost instantly.

You make it to the elevator, waiting patiently with you hand in his. His thumb gently moves over your hand, “Could this thing be any slower?”

You laugh, moving close to him and resting your head on his shoulder.

You stay close as you enter, your hand in his as he reaches with the other to press the button. He looks back over at you, instantly moving in to press his lips to yours.

Your hands slide up his arms, stopping to grip his biceps as his arm slides to lock around your lower back. You kiss until the ding of the elevator, and you make your way down the hall to his room.

You bite your lip at the beep of the door, looking up at him as he pushes it open.

He pulls you in, walking backwards as he pulls you with him, his grip on your hips tightening as your hands move up his chest to undo the buttons on his dress shirt.

“Impatient, I see.” He jokes, but you shake your head, “More like I’m finally getting everything I’ve ever wanted.”

He raises his brows, “I’m in the same boat as you.” He pulls you in, connecting his lips with yours as he reaches around to unzip the back of your dress.

You lean back, “Normally I’d want you to rip my clothes off of me, but I need you to be gentle with this one, please.”

“I’ll be as gentle as you want, baby.” He whispers, pressing a gentle kiss right below your ear, “Or as rough, whatever..” he drags the zipper down your back slowly, “..you desire.”

Your breath hitches as he slowly pushes your dress down your body. You step out of it, eyes on him as he lays it over the one chair beside him.

You walk over him to him, pulling him in for a heated kiss. He dips down, grabbing the back of your thigh to lift you up as his other arm starts firm around your waist.

He walks you over to the bed, laying you down as he kisses down your neck.

He sits up, eyes raking up and down your body as he works to undo the rest of the buttons before quickly shrugging that and his jacket off.

You sit up, eyes following his hands as they move to undo his belt. You reach down to take off your heels, but he stops you, “Uh uh, leave’em on.”

You smirk, laying back on the bed in nothing but your panties. He undoes his belt, biting his lip as he shrugs his pants down and steps out of them, along with his shoes.

He crawls back over you, lips connecting with yours as he grinds against you.

You gasp, letting a quiet moan slip. He does it again and you moan louder, “Fuck, Seb. Don’t tease me, I’ve waited long enough.”

He chuckles, “You’re right, you’re right. Sorry, baby.”

He reaches down, slipping his fingers into the band of your panties and glides his fingers down to your clit. He smirks as you gasp, hips rolling under his touch.

You tilt your head back, moaning out as his pressure grows harder.

“Fuck, you sound so beautiful.” He kisses up your neck, “Take them off for me.” You move quick, sitting up as he does. Your hands instantly removing the fabric from your body as he does the same.

You move up more on the bed, eyes on his as he crawls up to lay next to you. He pulls you towards him, and you roll over, your leg moving up to lay over his hip. He slides his hand over your leg, reaching down to guide cock between your folds and into you.

You gasps, fingers tangling into his hair as you smash your lips to his. His hand grips your thigh harder as the fingers on his other hand dig into your back,“Fuck, m’not even in all the way and you feel so fucking good, baby.”

He rests his forehead against yours, sliding the hand on your thigh up to cup your cheek as he thrusts into you slowly. Your nails dig into his shoulders, moans grow louder the deeper he gets.

“Feels so good.” You breathe out, “Fuck.”

He presses a kiss to your forehead, groaning out as he pulls out and thrusts back in.

You tighten your leg over his waist, sliding your hand down and around to his back. You drag your nails over his skin, drawing red lines within their path.

He holds you to him, thrusting in a slow and passionate pace, “You feel so good, sweetheart. So fucking good.” His lips trail down your neck, his moans growing louder, “Been waiting so long for you.”

You moan at his words, tightening your grip on him, “I knew I wasn’t crazy.” You smile, biting your lip as your eyes flutter closed. He presses a kiss to your cheek, “Not crazy at all, baby.”

Your walls squeeze around him, “D-don’t stop. Please.”

He groans lowly as his lips meet yours, moving with them as he rolls you onto your back, his body hovering over yours.

You moan out louder, legs tightening around his waist, “Shit, yes. Just like that.” You look up at him, brows furrowing with pleasure as a string of moans leave your lips.

He brushes hair from your face, laying his hand on your cheek as he watches your face twitch with pleasure, “You’re even more beautiful like this.” His eyes search your face, “Fuckin’ look at you.”

You whine, nails digging into his back, “So close.”

“Come on, baby.” He whispers, pressing kisses to your cheek, “Come for me. I want to make you feel so good.”

You gasp, eyes fluttering closed as you squeeze his cock with everything you have.

He groans, “Fuck, don’t do that.” He chuckles before moaning, “m’going to be right there with you if you do that.”

“S-sorry.” You whisper, and he shakes his head, pressing a kiss to your lips, “Don’t be sorry.” He bites your lip and tugs, “Feels so good when you do that.”

You look up at him, back arching from the bed as he guides you right into that euphoric feeling. You cling to him, panting and moaning as he works to guide you through.

“There we go, that’s it, baby.” He whispers, a moan attaching to his words, “Fucking hell.”

You whimper, turning your head to kiss his lips. You tug his hair, swallowing his groan.

“I think about you all the time.” He whispers, “I’ve dreamed of finally having you all to myself one of these days.”

You nod, moaning out as you look up at him, “Me-me, too.” You pull him in for another kiss, “I thought about you with everything.”

He smirks against your lips, “everything, huh?”

You smirk, “Yes, everything.”

“You don’t have to do that anymore.” He presses a kiss to your cheek, and then your other, “I’ll take care of you anytime you need.”

You smile, gasping as he thrusts into you fully, “Fuck, fuck.” You breathe out, “M’gonna come again.”

“As many times as you want, sweetheart.” He kisses down your neck, moaning out as he feels you clamp down onto him again, “Fuck, just like that. Come for me.”

You moan out loudly as you feel that band in your belly snap once again, “Yesyesyes. Fuck, fuck.” Your legs tighten and moans fall from your lips in a long string as he guides you through a second time.

He groans lowly, “Where do you want me, sweetheart?”

“Don’t stop.” You gasp, “I want all of you.”

He groans as he presses his lips to yours, the pace in his thrusts growing sloppier by the second, “You’re incredible.” He rests his forward on yours, moaning louder as his cock twitches inside of you.

You gasp at the feeling, sliding your hands up to pull him into a kiss.

His thrusts come to a slow stop before it’s just his lips moving with yours. He leans back, eyes looking into yours, “did ghat live up to your standards?”

You smile, “I don’t know, might have to do it again just to make sure, you know?”

He chuckles, nodding his head, “We can do it as many times as we can.” He crashes his lips onto hours and pulls you with him as he rolls over, “This beats any and all after parties.”

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✪ Thank you for reading ✪

[polytropic-liar]

Musings that are in no way intended to detract from OP's excellent points, just add on to them:

Whenever I see folks from other countries speaking as if we can identify the effects of Chinese government censorship in the final product, I think about the S&P notes shared by Alex Hirsch on the US animated children's show "Gravity Falls." These are censorship by a US corporation. They're in the same country as me, so ostensibly I'm familiar with the culture and ideology that the censorship is coming from. And yet, from watching the final product I would absolutely be incapable of identifying most of the things that are there, or missing, because of censorship. This holds true for most of the works from "my" culture: the only way I've ever been able to reliably point to the hand of censorship is from whistleblowing/disclosure by someone with actual knowledge of what happened, or enough knowledge of the industry to explain what the telltale signs are.

So with that perspective, it really does not make sense to me to try to opine about the hand of censorship, governmental or private, in media I watch from other places. Why would I be better able to see it there than in works whose cultural nuances I should be more attuned to?? Why wouldn't I, instead, do what I do with US works and look up insider analysis and accounts from whistleblowers, when they exist, of what the censorship actually did? Yeah, that info is harder for me to access, due to different platforms they're on and language barriers. And yeah, sometimes I will be frustrated that I'll never really know what happened behind the scenes.

(Confession: I already live that frustration every time I watch reality TV. I get so obsessed with wondering about the manipulation of actors and footage that shapes the narrative that I can't watch the show anymore because I'm pining for a behind-the-scenes documentary that doesn't exist. Tragic.)

But I think we do a disservice to ourselves, and fandom culture, and Chinese (including diaspora) cdrama fans who are trying to share a cool thing with the rest of us without being bulldozed by cultural imperialism, when we jump from "I see something compelling but subtle" or "I see potential that is not being explored" to "I know exactly why I see that, and it's censorship, because China." Like, are you sure? Maybe it's because writers, directors, and actors have as much agency and complexity to their craft in China as they do anywhere else? (Which includes sometimes it Not Being Very Complex At All Sorry because they phoned it in to make a ridiculous deadline, like they do everywhere else???)

Maybe, you see something in a work and there are a bunch of potential reasons why you might see it, and maybe you'll never know exactly why, but also maybe the important thing is that that thing you see is inspiring to you! Maybe you don't need it to have been The Real Explicit and Exact Meaning All Along If Not For The Hand of Censorship in order to affirm that it's meaningful and worth making art about and connecting with others over. Because that's, to me at least, the point of fandom: something spoke to you, and you want to connect about it. That's enough.

hmm i do think that danmei and dangai (censored danmei cdrama adaptations) being many non-chinese fandom people's first impression of chinese media has given them some misconceptions about mainstream chinese media, and it shows in a way that i find very frustrating when seeing discussions about cdramas on here. dangai dramas aside, even if government censorship didn't exist, the chances of your favorite cdrama gay ship becoming canon is about as high as the chances of any of those iconic homoerotic male friendships in a western TV show becoming canon. which is to say: extremely low.

what i think is that internationally huge danmei fandoms like mdzs and tgcf and drama adaptations like cql and shl have really fucked with people's conceptualization of danmei, in that they're using it as this reference point when analyzing relationships in all other forms of cn media, including cdramas and chinese games, which then manifests into people making very bold, very dubious claims about "queercoding" because 2 characters from a random cdrama reminds them of the one or two danmeis they'd encountered that shaped their entire perception of chinese media. basically it's this meme:

many people here need to understand that cdramas and chinese films are obviously mainstream forms of fictional media in china, just like how the mcu or the doctor who franchise is mainstream in the US and UK, or like shonen is mainstream in japan. not to burst your bubble of happy ignorance, but homoromantic relationships such as qingming/boya from the ying yang master are—for lack of a better term—fujobait. they are fujobait. bromances, because those sell well and everyone knows it. popular ships like bakudeku were not actually made canon in mha because shonen is mainstream, and in most industries geared toward maximizing capital, having full-on gay people front and center is considered a monetarily risky move. which sucks, of course, but china is absolutely no different. i promise you that if the govt removed their censorship laws for TV broadcasts, your favorite gay ship from mysterious lotus casebook or the blood of youth or fangs of fortune still wouldn't be canon. they might be allowed a bit more intimacy due to the lack of restrictive filtering, but they are not going to be sucking face for the same reason that gojo and geto from jjk didn't suck face.

danmei is still widely considered niche and risky in china, and if you haven't seen the recent news, authors are still getting arrested for writing it. assuming that chinese fiction, mainstream chinese fiction in particular, operate like dangais where the two guys with the most gay tension would be made explicitly canon were the censors to be lifted, is frankly pretty ridiculous. dangai dramas are adapted from danmeis, which are stories centered on a gay romance and narratively depend on the two guys falling in love. non-dangai dramas are very much... not that, hence why people shouldn't watch them expecting a censored danmei and then forcing assumptions of "my ship would be canon if only it weren't for censorship" on them.

it's very clear when someone who knows absolutely nothing about the actual situation with danmei and queer existence and mainstream TV censorship in china is trying to push their, if i put it crudely, "boss baby meme" perspective onto cmedia. fandom is all about poking at interactions between your favorite characters and giggling and speculating, but i think lots of fandom people (many of them safe in the pockets of their more progressive areas) view govt censorship as this big abstract dam that, if broken, would result in the canonization of all their favorite ships, which is not only an incredibly naive belief but also one that shows how much they view TV censorship as more of a personal inconvenience that's preventing their favorite ships from kissing on screen instead of the looming, deep-rooted issue depriving mainland chinese people of creative freedom it actually is. with cmedia fandoms there's a specific widely popularized "they're so gay omg how did censorship not notice" gag when there's any perceived homoromantic undertones in a story that's both rather insensitive and also ignorant, and many dangai and cdrama fandoms in particular (donghua fans too, link click shippers i'm looking directly at you) could really use some more education and sensitivity regarding this.

i've been in danmei & cdrama fandom spaces for years and post-pandemic this kind of nonsense has definitely gotten worse, especially when you compare shipping discussions here to shipping discussions in cn fandoms. here every 2 seconds someone makes an off-color censorship joke about tgcf donghua and over on douyin they are straight up commenting under the nezha sequel announcement post if there's going to be an oubing kissing scene. granted i obviously cannot see or know everything going on in cn fandom spaces because they are incomprehensibly enormous, but in all the spaces i've been in i've never seen a single censorship joke from anyone. why do people here absolutely insist on making them?

anyway. fandom be normal about chinese media challenge!

[vrischlatt]

I DO NOT LIKE WILBUR. I may not like shubble either, but here the thing even if i dont like her...

Im not a fucking wilbur supporter.

Wilbur is a shitty person, and the fact it took Shleby, a person whos had a LOT of holes poked into her story, but probably still was abused in the same way Wilbur abused everyone around him, ESPECIALLY TOMMY AND QUACKITY.

Ive had people tell me theres a lot of suspicious patturns of behevoir in the dynamic of Tommy and Wilbur that scream heyyyy Tommy, especially when he was a minor should NOT be left alone with this Wilbur guy! The extents of which we will NEVER know, because while its easy for Tommy to dunk on Dream, he could NEVER dunk on Wilbur.

Shelby was a wake up call for Tommy. Tommy probably needs to go to serious fucking therapy after stepping back and reexamining his dynamic with Wilbur. Because the abuse is subtle and incased DEEPLY into Tommy's psyche. His humor is of im better than you, im richer than you, woman arent funny, drugs, is EXTRMELY influenced by Wilbur's own "humor" and shitty behvoir, which people are quick to call out, but conviently ignore when Tommy does it.

Its too the point that early showings of the how to be a millionaire had hints that Wilbur was ACTUALLY meant to be refrenced in the show, by name, but the drama dropped and he probably was hastily written out of it, implying the show was based off his quote book, which he co wrote with wilbur he makes an appearence in the book but it was his book first and formost.

Like that one clip for example, of Wilbur barking at Tommy to shut up, and instead of protesting or cracking a joke like he would do with ANYONE ELSE, he... shuts up. Uncharacteristically, shuts up. Apparently further context was he may or may not be talking about something he and Wilbur did, and Wilbur refused to let Tommy spill the beans on what happened and NO ONE TO THIS DAY KNOWS WHAT HE WAS GONNA SAY BUT HIM AND WILBUR.

Also obviously the smashing the hand with the foot, and he was oddly harsher if not out righr crueler when he didnt think he was on live stream with Tommy, changing his tune when he realized thousands of people were watching him.

Its got a lot people wondering what hes like off camera honestly and KNOWS hes off camera.

Its so bad its lead me to believe Wilbur... wasnt roleplaying in the skilled actor who plays a facade way, but was playing as a self insert, as himself, and could avertly be more open about who he was by playing it off as a character.

Speaking of him as a roleplayer he was NOT good to his fellow CCs as roleplayers, and was nortious for trying to force ideas on them- sich as fundys character being a girl because he wanted a daughter irl apparently that was the reason i guess so he forced fundy to be his kid for some reason and to be his daughter, which Fundy wanted very little part in, hence where him being trans orginal came from, it was him trying to met part way with Wilbur, and even protested to having his character be a minor.

Which yknow, some of the fandom FUCKING IGNORED.

Hes also done similar to Quackity, plus some. Hes honestly an ass friend to Quackity. And i feel so fucking bad for Quackity.

Also if he cant be the one writing the lore, or cant control other peoples lore he generally looses interest. See point: as DSMp continued and more CCs took control of their stories, he kinda either left and generally stopped streaming or gave his character generally less to do.

Also he generally refused to the show up for Karl's side series, a series even SCHLATT who killed off his character showed up for. So. Yeah. Also on QSMP? Basically abandoned it, even after Quackity lore baited him to join SO HARD MAN. I honestly do NOT like Tallulah and hot take dont think she should ever been added and is a mistake on Quackity's part. She was ALWAYS doomed to have been abandoned by wilbur and everyone should have seen it coming. I hold no sympathy for those who genuinely thought he was ever coming back.

Sorry not sorry, minus Quackity. Im sorry to him because unlike fans he was personally affected by this, even if i seem fit to critize him for it, i do so gently and knly hold sympathy for him on this matter. No one else. Minus the egg who yknow played the egg, and got played by Wilbur. Even if i dont like the egg, being in that situation where you have to be the bait to get wilbur with his self centered short ass attention span fucking ass is NOT a fun postion to be in. Your fucked from the start and they didnt even seem to realize it until too late either.

Wilbur is just generally a bitch, and im glas i never joined the fandom for Lmanberg. I joined for Las Nevadas, for the eggpire for Manberg, not jokeass over here.

And look, im not here to bash on his music. I like his music and i do not give two shits if you still listen to his music. Either through him directly or from someone else reuploading his works or a remix of it or whatever. Look i get it, his music is like the one redeeming thing about it, even if its not a good enough of redeemingly quality to ignore and forgive all the fucking assholary this man gets up to.

Hes EXTRMELY dickish, and whether or not you believe shleby or not should not subtract or distract you from the fucking fsct hes NEVER a good person, hes just a likable person who is good at charming people.

Worst still is hes probably actually happy all of this happened because he doesnt have put up a facade and "deal" with people he clearly has no respecr for and never did, and treat them like accommodations he has to put up and he ignores as his own convience.

[many-gay-magpies]

god what really gets me about dead boy detectives and what i think i love so much about the show and the relationships in it is that like. the romantic and sexual relationships aren't portrayed as being more unique or important than the platonic relationships. they're all just RELATIONSHIPS.

charles and crystal's attraction to each other and eventual hookup isn't this big end-all be-all relationship that shatter charles and edwin's friendship and draws charles' attention away from edwin; it's just a THING that happens. they're just two people that care about each other and happen to also be attracted to each other, and a hook-up happens, then they decide that neither of them are in the right place for it and it's nothing awful. crystal kisses charles, but it isn't some big spectacle of her declaring her love for him; it's just her saying goodbye and that she cares about him, like her hugs with niko and jenny and her handshake with edwin.

edwin realizes he loves charles romantically and tells him, and charles says he doesn't really love edwin romantically BACK, but it's okay, because they still love each other so much in so many other ways that this one tiny difference could never change them—and it doesn't!! they're still just as close, still care for each other just as much, still SHOW that care for each other just as much. their relationship didn't completely end because edwin loved charles in a way charles couldn't reciprocate, but at the same time it isn't "solved" by edwin getting over it, because there's nothing TO solve. it's just another type of love, added to everything that already exists between them. and they have LITERALLY FOREVER to figure out what it means.

the relationships between edwin & niko, crystal & niko, and crystal & edwin aren't given any less weight for being solely platonic, just as charles & crystal's relationship and edwin's feelings for charles aren't given (that much) MORE weight for being romantic. crystal and charles' conflict in the closet is about EDWIN, about how they're BOTH his friend and BOTH want to get him back; it has very little to do with the feelings between THEM, romantic or otherwise. similarly, the weight of charles' and edwin's relationship isn't diminished in the LEAST by charles not reciprocating the romantic side of his feelings (or SAYING he doesn't reciprocate, at least—we can all argue about the legitimacy of that in the notes).

i'm sure there are more examples than this, as well as probably some examples that CONTRADICT this, but like... by and large, it feels like dead boy detectives is a show where all the relationships are given equal weight regardless of platonic, sexual, romantic, or familial status, and as someone on both the asexual and aromantic spectrums who has struggled time and time again with shows casting out the importance of all other relationships in favor of prioritizing romance, that is INCREDIBLY refreshing to see.

[mikimeiko]

Bodies | Miniseries (2023), Paul Tomalin

[dadrielle]

I have to assume from context that this is about the glasses question, and with all due respect, I think this is deeply unfair. I really like your work, and I have also long suspected that a lot of the resentments that have built up within fandom come in part from the way everyone vague blogs instead of talking to each other, which is why I am responding to you directly. Sorry if this is an overstep.

I think the majority of people who are deep in fandom find the Fireside chats in general kind of disappointing because we want them to have more depth. I know you and I agree that the format is not super well suited to in depth character stuff, and obviously CR has not been using it as a vehicle for that; Marisha's was half about Stardew Valley, and many of the questions that are pre-selected by Dani or whomever else are not about the characters or even the campaigns. Plus the actors in the hot seat choosing to just read whatever question they can see while the chat moves at lightning speed means that some of the stuff that gets answered is just random chance. I also don't like it, but I think that's just baked in to it being a live Q & A. The interactive component is its main unique angle for better or worse.

I also think it's fair to look at the questions that get submitted and cringe as someone deeper in fandom—there were somewhere in the realm of 50 different questions about dice, stuff that has been answered before, etc. But I do think we need to remember that as frustrating as those are, some of that is due to the fact that not everyone is In Deep, you know? Most people who watch CR are not active in fandom. We're a tiny subsection. Live chats with actors very often draw casual fans who don't know that these things are redundant or uninteresting to other people. They are just excited to get to ask their favorite something! I find it maddening too, but it is what it is, and it's not new—con audience Q & As have always been the same.

But here are the facts about the glasses question specifically:

It was not the only question Cole submitted; he also submitted some deeper character questions.

It was submitted in the pre-stream phase and was pre-selected by Dani.

It is something Laura has referenced on stream and in 4sd multiple times before without coming to a resolution so it is not completely out of left field for Laura.

The glasses have become a weird lightning rod in fandom, with people assigning moral value to whether someone likes Imogen in glasses, as if liking the idea of glasses means that you infantilize Imogen.

To the above point, it was one of only a couple questions that some people, in a departure from the standard of decorum in the chat, decided to explicitly react to with thumbs down emojis.

I am not going to address the last two points here (though I think I am going to make a post about it generally) because I don't know your feelings about them and I don't want to ascribe the feelings or behaviors of others to you. I only bring it up because I think that they color the reactions people have to this question in particular quite a bit. I think there were many people, myself included, who enjoyed that question being asked not because they have strong feelings about the glasses fanon (I am deeply ambivalent), but because it felt nice to see it be treated as something lighthearted and fun, to be reminded that all the fanwank about it is really just insular and small.

So my main reason for making this post is the rest of it. I do not think it is fair to throw shade at Cole for asking that question. He asked other questions, deeper questions, which I know that you'd only be able to know if you looked at the question thread, but needs to be said because it is directly in opposition of what you said here about not caring about the characters or campaign. And Cole is also one of the people active in fandom who interacts with the discourse the least. He is not someone who is a diehard for any particular answer regarding the glasses; sometimes he draws her with them, sometimes he doesn't—this was clearly not about getting his favored fanon proven correct because he doesn't have one. Which again, you might not know! But that's part of the problem here—there is a lot of assumption of intent and character that is just both off the mark and really ungenerous. Cole is a genuinely nice guy who is getting all kinds of splash damage over a completely innocuous question and it honestly bothers me a lot. Saying that he must not care about the characters or the story because he asked that question, that it makes him or anyone else who enjoyed the question selfish, feels to me like offloading frustrations about the format on him and he does not deserve that. I get why Dani chose it as the final question; if you divorce it from the discourse, it's lighthearted, something Laura has actually been considering back and forth all campaign, and a bit tongue in cheek. It had an inside joke component of ribbing Laura about needing the teleprompter made larger. Ending on something heavy is not the usual strategy for talk segments, and without the drama hanging off it, it looks like a quick, cute send off.

I get being frustrated with what questions were asked and answered, I really do. I also desperately wish we got something juicier, even though I did ultimately enjoy the experience of watching, because Laura is very charming. But I suggest you consider that maybe taking that frustration out on other people who love the show, to say they are selfish and don't actually care about it, is unkind and disproportionate.

I shouldn't be surprised by the fireside chat being the state it was, seeing as I don't follow any CR themed blogs myself or really go into the tags because I find it frustrating but still, the bleed over of fanon is depressing and a lot of you are showing your asses in terms of how you don't actually gaf about the characters or the story the players have chosen to tell.

I love my au's, I love my headcanons, I love my not quite canon ships, but they're for me and the people who chose to enjoy them if they want to. and what makes creating those things more fulfilling is trying to really be true to the character it's about, otherwise just go play with OCs

this will be my last salty post on the matter (guess we'll see) but man, the timing? all of this crazy shit is going on, it is well established that the audience is frustrated with how little downtime we've had with these characters and getting to see those long rest bonds we got to enjoy with previous campaigns, 4SD is over, and that's what you wanna ask about? it's selfish, honestly.

[hard--headed--woman]

the way native english speakers are so self centered and (think their language is the official language of this planet) that they never watch foreign medias in the original version and always insist that their shitty dub is the best is SO annoying to me

[thefabelmans2022]

i understand the impulse to be nice to new cast members and give them a chance to find their voice and find writers who get it and figure out how to translate what they're good at into the show's format etc etc but sometimes i do think we need to be haters a little bit.

[cerealbishh]

"You are mine" // "I will always love you"

🎥: @starcuffedjeans

[talistheintrovert]

Yes I have:

No 👍

Has anyone here watched it and is it worth the time commitment?

[salty-software-engineer]

I love letting other people watch things first and then give feedback about it so I can gauge whether or not I want to spend time on it. Truly could not give fewer fucks about spoilers. If the story is good I will still have a fantastic time.

[stuworbutwithchipmunks]

I know ppl couldn't care less about the humans in the cgi movies but Zoe and Dr. Rubin were both hilarious characters and the more i rewatch the movies the more i think about that.

[girlbob-boypants]

It's weird to me when people defend the Deimos story cause it's about the class of people who organized your horrible fate as a child soldier being a family of people who actively abuse and torture each other and it's all portrayed as just mild misunderstandings that you can fix by doing their chores.

Meanwhile discussions of the heart and the infested are just nowhere to be fucking seen, making it terrible for worldbuilding and also just terribly unpleasant to experience if you have an ounce of critical thinking about what's actually happening

At least it's an infinitely better farm than the other two