#vinh i love you

[nonam-vi]

MY BEAUTIFUL MANS. I WANT HIMMM!!!

,':]

[theblue-hairedarcadian]

(SPOILERS!)

content warning ⚠️ subtle implications of assault.

yes, i am still not sold with the sequel.

i do agree that ‘double exposure has an interesting plot and new characters AND it could’ve been written better or it didn’t include max at all to sell the game’ can still exist in the same sentence.

but i have to admit that this video i stumbled upon tiktok today exploring max’s trauma back in the first game was beautifully made and devastating to witness at the same time. (i refuse to watch the whole scene because i personally think it’s so corny, i might take back my statement.)

hannah’s performance as max—especially when she is raising her voice; breaking out from her “shy, nerdy, camera geek” person that she constantly boxes herself in—always sends a chill down to my spine.

this is the same girl who watched her best friend get killed in the junkyard and was also drugged during that process, who had to hold the burden of knowing almost every single female student in blackwell is also a victim of the professor he looked up to, who had to rely on no one but her destructive rewinding powers at the age of eighteen, reliving it all over again after how many years.

“no, no... never again!”

“once is all you get!”

my heart breaks so much for you. i love you, max caufield. 🦋

i just hope that the deck nine developers treat you and chloe price better in the next game.

[langfield]

safiya/max :

- canonically obsessed with each other. vinh says that safi couldn’t shut up about max, and they spend almost every day attached at the hip

- both clearly mourning their ‘soulmate’ aka codependent girl best friend and are finally thriving because they’ve recreated that relationship via its foundation

- safi picked up max the day she arrived at caledon and they’ve been close since

- secret keepers. they don’t know anything about each other because direct questions get cagey responses, thus they snoop and dance around one another instead

- max had a piece of safi inside her and it was in her heart and it didn’t hurt her. safi laments about not wanting to remove it. need i say more?

- physically intimate in ways that are explicitly romantic …

- god complex meets chronic survivor’s guilt. themes of godhood and girlhood <3 yay

- safi said max caulfield if you don’t agree to wait for me i’ll probably ruin your life down the line because i’m obsessed with you btw. if you care

- and max said idc that safi hurt all those people because i fixed it! so the crimes are okay now yknow

max/vinh :

- max is super ( & embarrassingly so ) attracted to vinh that it’s brought up three seperate times … canonically has thought about kissing him, finds his shirtless mirror selfie hot, and thinks about how she’d be distracted by vinh nude

- vinh was extremely jealous of max when she and safi got close

- dysfunctional coping meets even more dysfunctional coping. they’re drinking on the job and vinh’s already dropping the ‘i like you’ bomb

- very quick obsessive attachment on vinh’s end … is reeling from safi’s death and clings to max like a life line

- ( will totally discard his character development and mope actively if max rejects him. petty! max likes that in a person )

- despite her best efforts max feels guilty about kissing safi’s totally not ex and reggie’s totally not boyfriend and tries to excuse her actions. doesn’t really work <3

- vinh tells max at every opportunity he is a bottom and max is like :) as she proceeds to fluster him into oblivion

- when vinh acts clingy, max doesn’t chide him or discourage him really. she loves clingy people. especially clingy people she’s kissed.

- he is a bisexual whore who is now enjoying the basic intimacies of hand holding and chaste kisses and maybe having a serious relationship. max is also tickled by their little moments and is eager to actually start healing … for real this time!!

safiya/vinh :

- maya and safi were up each other’s asses, meanwhile vinh was trailing after them like a helpless lost puppy

- safiya and vinh have fucked. probably more than once! and it was probably a miserable, horrific experience every time

- vinh is obsessed with safi and not only does he keep pictures of her in his phone he’s also willing to do everything and anything to spare her pain she doesn’t need or something

- canonically stated that safi doesn’t care about vinh but boy does she love to dress up as him! he also has a piece of her with him but safi’s not thinking about that

- four plus years of history

- safi’s mom added herself to their relationship and that sure … added to their dynamic!

- whatever they feel for each other is complex and full of contradictions … on behalf of them both having horrible issues with their respective identities and an aversion to being vulnerable with others

- ( on that note, the two share a lot of similarities that forced them apart rather than brought them together )

- safi’s eager to try on her vinh cosplay if it means she can romance or fuck max <3

[fire-in-my-woods]

REGGIE IS TO VINH WHAT VINH WAS TO SAFI SO TRUE!!! and i think this concept is fascinating because the solution isn’t ‘maybe love this person you don’t love’ but it’s to move on instead and respect yourself more. i’ll never understand the weird vinh x reggie stuff pulled at the end of the game … what happened to them being ‘bad’ for each other ?? i do not mind vinh realizing how poorly he’s treated people and trying to be better, especially after his safi revelation, but i don’t understand how this immediately equals romantic love ??? anyway. sorry. your opinions are amazing as always, and i’m so glad someone else has a similar view of them

NEVER APOLOGIZE KING UR ALWAYS CORRECT AND YOUR OPINIONS R ALWAYS RIGHT!!

[prometheanglory]

drew vinh and her youngest sister a while back >_< i think she looks up to vinh a lot… scowls to look serious like all of her big sisters but she gives herself headaches by trying.

[unknownbookworm]

ZGOIGFNMNBVXDDYI IN BCDFYHVVCDGHVV

LOOK AT THEM!!!!!! THEY LOOK SO GOOD!!!!!!!!!

I always love your art thank you so much!!!!

HELLO! I loved your art when you drew Dee and literally all the farmers are so scrumptious. I wanted to pop back in and offer up Dee and their cousin if you were up to drawing them together? If not thats okay, feel free to ignore this ask!

Heres Vinh! He grew up visiting Pelican Town ever summer and works as a teacher when hes not there. Hes lowkey a menace but is often found just chatting with people.

Again, if you choose to take this i can’t wait! If not I’ll be here chewing on all the art to make anyway!!

Hi I’m so sorry it took me so long to do this wow 😭😭

I just know that Vinh has luscious hair I’m SORRY he is just giving me like… main character vibes I don’t know how to explain it.

[absolutebl]

This Week in BL - We In A Slump, but help might be coming from a very strange source

Organized, in each category, with ones I'm enjoying most at the top.

Sept 2024 Week 4

Ongoing Series - Thai

Jack & Joker (Thai Mon IQIYI) ep 3 of 12 - I don’t have a lot to say except that the plot is somewhat predictable but the show is still very engaging. War is fantastic. I’m enjoying it a hell of a lot.

Monster Next Door (Thai Thurs Gaga ) ep 10 of 12 - The second leads are getting better in this one. I understand where they are coming from, which makes their conflict so much more understandably painful, and honest to a friends2lovers trope. The main couple is kinda standard college relationship drama, but they are cuties.  

Kidnap (Fri YT) ep 4 of 12 - How is Ohm so damn gorgeous? Meanwhile, babies’ first argument. And it’s sponge bath time. Q has got to be wondering if Min is as meticulous with all kinds of care and attention to detail all......the......time. Somebody here in the hellhole said something about this being "the most BL to ever BL." And I think they’re right. At least right now. Although, watch out, we got us a new contender from the east.

I Saw You in My Dream (Weds Gaga) ep 11 of 12 - I do love the continuation of the perversion, in a good way, of the punishment trope from last week's episode. Oh, has the show finally remembered its title? NO SINGING. 

Addicted Heroin (Thai Tues WeTV) ep 7 of 10 - More kidnapping and an attack and now there’s a girl involved and somebody’s going to China and I don’t understand anything! And I don’t really care. Is this how the actual book originally went? Because it’s wild. Also TOO MANY of flashbacks. I guess they got a bit of a boyfriend era, and the claiming during the water fight was cute, but otherwise...... meh

Love Sick 2024 (Thai Sun iQIYI) ep 2 of 15 - One shouldn’t make comparisons, of course, but all I can think about is how amazing Captain was as Noh in the original series. Thus this show is mostly just making me want to rewatch the original. It’d be an interesting twist to have Aim be queer instead of a damaged cool girl slut. Was the helmet hand letting go a foreshadow of the iconic bookstore hands letting go? Also, I gotta say for the second episode of a series there are already too many flashbacks. Why are they using filler when they have so much content crammed into so few (comparable) episodes for a series? It’s annoying. Stop it.

Live in Love (Sun Gaga) ep 4 of 5 - This show has some interesting, if heavy handed, things to say about shipping and trolling, but also predatory/proprietary female behavior. It’s fascinating to see it tackled head on, if handled in a profoundly clumsy manner. I’m not sure how I feel about it. That said, most of this episode was actually an advertisement for a resort in Phuket. 

Bad Guy My Boss (Thai Sun Gaga) ep 2 of 10 - I'm getting What's Wrong with Secretary Kim? vibes from this show. Only this is WAY more bullying. It’s very old-fashioned 90’s billionaire romance novel only gay. It’s never a good sign when I’m watching two boys kiss and I really want one of them to just bite the other ones lip off instead.

Battle of the Writers (Sun YT) ep 9 of 12 - No ep this week. 

Ongoing Series - Not Thai

Sugar Dog Life (Japan Sun grey) ep 8 of 10 - Gosh it’s so frikin adorable. Baby got sick. He has SUCH A CRUSH. And such a courageous little confession! Yay! Can’t wait for next week. 

Teenager Judge (Vietnam Sat YouTube) ep 1 - sure, yes this is, in fact, just Ba Vinh doing his thing with pretty boys again. And yet...... There is a REASON this leapt into the standings guns blazing. So it’s high school set but it's stepbrothers trope. (My, aren’t we popular this year?) I know, but I NEVER get tired of this trope. We got us Bach (BV's sullen tsundere) and Dat (babygirl meets bully). It’s GREAT how the brothers' dynamic is entirely different at school than when they're at home. My ear isn’t trained for Vietnamese, but I think Dat is using different pronouns depending on his location (his personality entirely shifts when he’s at school). I’m not sold on the Bach character, although I always trust BV to serve in the end (at least we know the kisses will be good), but Dat is utterly in love, a touch spicy, and reasonably complex. The surrounding cast is good too, my favorite pretty boy is there playing top dog (woof), and one of the besties is out gay (YAY!). The plot of the show is...... well...... absent. Nothing happened. But if we are aiming for Love Sick slice of life style BL, I'm game. Subs are appropriately terrible and confusing. But I like it A FUCK TON so far, so I’m gonna keep it in rotation. Nice to have Vietnam back in play. What a shocker.

2024 has been a year of upsets.

Love is Like a Poison AKA Doku Koi: Doku mo Sugireba Koi to Naru (Japan Tues Netflix?) 3 of 10 eps - I weirdly enjoyed the farcical music and the utter absurdity of the court case. I also liked how it highlighted what a good team these two are. Frankly I don’t mind a bit of an antihero sleazy lawyer + conman, it's engaging. I’m getting wholesome out of Thailand. I don’t really need it from Japan at the moment. Also I don’t believe for one second our conman actually is serious about the relationship. Conmen gonna con. I'm reminded of the scorpion and the frog fable.

First Note Of Love (Taiwan Mon Gaga) ep 8 of 12 - I love Orca so much. I do not love the autotuned version of Orca, but I knew what I was in for with this particular show, it's in the title after all. I did laugh a whole lot when Laing used kha. Hon, I don't think that word means what you think it means......

The On1y One (Taiwan Thurs Gaga) eps 11-12fin - I never thought I’d say this, but the pacing was off in the penultimate episode. Taiwan, and its chronic misuse of flashbacks strikes again. That said we eventually got a "lock in" trope and Wang being the biggest little flirt shit in the cafe OMG!!! Of course, you shouldn’t use a girl to torment your bf, but it was so well done, I can’t really complain. Meanwhile, teacher kisses. And now I understand exactly why they’re present in this narrative. Clever. Bummer of a burden on that ending though. I cannot see how they’ll manage to stick this landing. [That was ep 11]

AND NOW EP 12 - doomey doomey doom

Not the water bottle trope! Argh the teenage lust of it all. Just stop it. Wang is so smart he knows exactly how bad he has to be to leave the class. And his bf certainly knows that too. And......

......

So that was not an ending and I’m not happy about it and no one is surprised. Even I’m not surprised. I’m just disappointed. Even tho I suspected this was where we were headed I'm disappointed. That’s it. That’s all I got. How do I review something that was such a crushing let down?

Conclusion:

Based on a Mou Mou novel + the Your Name Engraved Herein team, this is old-school coming of age BL and it was bloody fantastic. Tsundere seme to beat all tsundere (smartest + tallest + bestest at everything but people) meets socially-ept cutie smart-ass uke. They're living together by end of ep 1 and start kissing by end of ep 2. A stellar tense slow burn stepbrothers trope that ate my life and than just belly-flopped the finale. What I'm left with is epic levels of disappointment and well...... at least nobody died? My standard "fatally flawed" rating for any BL is 4/10 so I guess that’s what I’m giving it. 

Before you ask me for the stats: Taiwan does not have a history of second seasons. I went ahead and ran the numbers and the odds are certainly not in our favor. I put the chances at 2%.

Yes, I contemplated a revenge rating of 2/10 but even I'm not that mean.

It's airing but...

The Hidden Moon (Sat WeTV) ep 1 of 10 - This is a supernatural romance (my ghost boyfriend trope) by Violet Rain (I Feel You Linger). A man is hired to write an article about an old mansion in Chiang Mai being converted into a café. He sees the ghosts of people who died at the mansion, falls in love with one of them. Was substantially recast. I loved IFYLITA except the ending so I think I'll let this one run it's course you can tell me if it's work tracking down... if they managed to land it. I have my doubts.

In Case You Missed It

Falling For My Boss is vertical format (nash) short from Korean BL about a happy-go-unlucky man who keeps losing his flower shop business because of romantically misbehaving employees (apparently it's a thing). When his best employee brings in a new boy he's worried she's falling for him, but it turns out it's his own heart on the line. He a clueless softy and The Boy is a lost broken sweetheart, making this a gentle little snippet of a show. There's a baby linguistic negotiation, some hung slinging, awkward handholds, and everyone is very pretty. For me the absence of kisses and the vertical format were more annoying than the length, which felt fine but many viewers will find too short. I enjoyed the 30 minutes of cute. All of which makes this a solid 7/10 from me. It was originally only available on this one ap in very short form with ads so I wasn't gonna bother. Then some kind soul cut it together without ads and stuck it up for download. Say thank you.

Oddball recommendation next: This podcast episode touches on some stuff we see in Thai BL so I think it's worth listening to. Journalist Dominic Faulder on the Complex History Between Thailand & Myanmar

Happy of the End (Japan Gaga) - Completed its run. A boy is disowned for being gay, dumped by his boyfriend, and ends up in a dysfunctional co-dependant relationship with his would-be kidnapper. We were due for another messy JBL and it's exactly as expected. I do not like it at all and DNFed. Gossip round the hellhole is that was a solid decision.

Marriage Equality Law has officially been enacted in Thailand...

Yes the actual law. Goes into effect Jan 22, 2025

Next Week Looks Like This:

Upcoming BLs for 2024 are listed here. This list is not kept updated, so please leave a comment if you know something new or RP with additions.

Coming Oct 2024:

10/3 Fourever You (Thai iQIYI?) 16 eps - New directs Earth (UWMA, 12%) + Pond (Century of Love, 180 Degrees), Bas (Gen Y, 2 Moons) + Maxky (Why You… Y Me?) and other familiar faces like Bever. Sampler pack university BL from Wabi Sabi that looks like it's trying to be a gay Boys Over Flowers (4 older med students hot boys) and I'm not mad about it. Trailer Not sure who's distributing this but my guess is iQIYI since they had the last few from this house.

10/7 Every You Every Me (Thai Gaga) 10 eps - Jade and Chin have lived over a thousand lifetimes. In each one they somehow manage to fall in love with each other. (This pair, TopMick was piloted in a My Universe ep, that was one of the only ones I liked.)

10/10 Eccentric Romance (Korea ????) 12 eps - Silkwood’s 2nd Thai/Korean colab, that has been in production since 2022 which is a LONG time in the BL world. I'm worried but I like the concept: friends of 10 years who’ve been hiding feelings for each other enter the same university. Plus MURDER.

10/10 Gangster and His Boyfriend (Korea ????) 8 eps? - Kim Dong Bin (famous trainee & idol reality competitor, yeah that happens) stars as a fallen idol who unexpectedly becomes entangled in a gangster family. Discovers that his friend’s father is responsible for the murder of his entire family years ago. I don't know much about this one, neither does anyone else and I'm not sure where I got that release date so……

10/21 Love in the Big City (Korea ????) 8 eps - Adaptation of Booker-nominated famous coming of age novel of the same title by Park Sang-Young. Cynical yet fun loving student writer Young pinballs from home, to class, to Tinder matches. He and Jaehee, his female besie and roommate, frequent nearby bars where they push away their worries about life, love, and money with soju. As time passes Jaehee settles down and leaves Young to face his problems on his own. Young finding comfort in the arms of the series of men, including one whose handsomeness is matched by his coldness and another who might be the great love of his life. Not really BL. Stars Kim Go-eun (The King: Eternal Monarch), Noh Sang-hyun, and Nam Yoon Su (The King’s Affection). This already released as a movie and isn't very well regarded, this date is supposedly an international release as a series. I'm wary of it being BL.

THIS WEEK’S BEST MOMENTS

I got nothing, The On1y One drove me into a funk.

(Last week)

Streaming services are listed by how I (usually) watch, which is with a USA based IP, and often offset by a day because time zones are a pain.

The tag BLigade: @doorajar @solitaryandwandering @my-rose-tinted-glasses @babymbbatinygirl @babymbbatinygirl @isisanna-blog @mmastertheone @pickletrip @aliceisathome @urikawa-miyuki @tokillamonger @sunflower-positiiivity @rocketturtle4 @blglplus @anythinggoesintheshire @everlightly @renafire @mestizashinrin @bl-bam-beyond @small-dark-and-delicious @saezurumurmurs

Sigh, Tumblr in its infinite wisdom doesn't like too many at-ings.

[cosmicwavelengths]

here's why i liked lis: double exposure

[DE SPOILERS BELOW] this is unpopular, but double exposure is overhated. even with the absence of pricefield and the incredibly weak ending (which is a huge sticking point to many people in this community), there's a lot of good things about DE that got overshadowed with hate. so here 's what i liked about it!

Hannah Telle, her voice acting was great as per usual and her nomination at the game awards was definitely deserved (even if she didn't win)

At the beginning of the game, if you right click to rewind, Max will say something like “old habits die hard” and that was a nice call back

Aged up Max, it was great playing as her again and I think the art team nailed her character design compared to how she looked in LIS1

Safi, Vinh, Amanda, Loretta, Moses, & Gwen were great characters

Someone Was Listening by dodie SLAPS, and the use of the song when Max shifts into the Living World for the first time was amazing

The VFX for Max’s timeline shift ability was sick, and the timeline shifting was fun to play with

Realistic animations and a great snowy environment- huge props to the art teams, I just wish we got to see more of it

Safi’s voice acting and motion capture overall, her actress did a great job

The one conversation at the start of Chapter 4 between Safi/Max talking about their powers

Detective Alderman showing what happens if you interact with the split timeline

The twist with Max holding the gun, that was chilling

The concert scene with Amanda was fun, and I liked going on the date with Vinh

The scene where Safi, Max, and Vinh expose Lucas (so deserved)

I loved the friendship between Safi and Max, I wish we got to see more of that before she died. Safi on her own is an interesting character and I’m interested to see what D9 does with her after this

The sequence where Max chases Max (Safi), it was such a rush it was exciting

Safi’s power in Chapter 5 freaking out and causing her to shapeshift into different people

The darkroom nightmare scene in Chapter 5, I was actually flipping out bc I was worried Jefferson was gonna jumpscare us

Moses and the gingerbread house scene was so emotional. It really showed how close he was to Safi.

Moses’ reaction to Max picking the ‘nerdy and dirty’ mug lmao

As with all the games, I liked reading the texts and Crosstalk messages. The journal was cool to read to see what happened after the events of LIS 1, but I wish it was as comprehensive as it was previously. But I chalk that up to Max being too busy to keep a proper journal

Also, it’s so nice to see Max as a professional, established photographer! I was worried she’d be doing other stuff and stepping away from photography, but it’s so cool to see her transform from a meek art student to an award winning photographer. Character progression wins!!!

[sheigarche]

"Vinh can't be with Max (or Reggie) because he is still in love with Safi" is a misinterpretation of what the game actually stating.

This whole scene is about Vinh coming to the conclusion that what he has with Safi is over and there are no feelings there.

And as we can see here, it says he "was" in love, in the past tense, so he isn't anymore...

Which for me already defeats the argument, BUT THEN he doubles down with the dialogue saying "or I thought I was". Meaning that maybe it wasn't even really love in the first place.

The theme of DE is about moving on from the past and trauma and all the characters have a bit of that in their arc.

For Vinh, it's finally realizing that his thing with Safi was one-sided and having to let it go. And Max's line "maybe you should focus on what's in front of you" with him agreeing means exactly that.

By the end, whatever that feeling was, he is ready to move on from it.

[langfield]

i honestly think this situation is so interesting, so to see it be brought up ( in a way that isn’t just ‘wtf?’ ) is nice to see! gonna give some thoughts on the situation myself, since i do have a few and general double exposure talk that’s actually about the game’s characters or plot is rare.

max’s views on love have never been completely monogamous, or traditional, which might be a more apt term. i’m surprised how poorly people have handled her being allowed ( and wanting to! ) kiss both vinh and amanda, since as you said, max can kiss chloe and warren. if she does indeed mack on both of her love interests in the first game, she says this :

max doesn’t see this as weird or strange, claiming that the week she’s been through has made such a choice quite simple to her, really. she cares for both warren and chloe, knows this full heartedly and without doubt, and since she has no idea what’s to come … and because everything is so unfairly cruel … she might as well show that affection and do what she wants, which was to kiss them both. there is no drama or confliction within max about this choice and she seems almost content with it, giddy -- despite her feelings for them being rather different, she just enjoys the fact she got to express herself in that intimate way, nothing more or less. max doesn’t exaclty get a lot of relationship experience after this either : if she’s not recently single after dating her childhood best friend for almost ten years in what was definitely a codependent relationship, then she was someone who likely never bothered with love again after killing chloe. there isn’t a lot of room for growth here? or understanding how the dating scene works, what’s fine, what isn’t. human connection has always been hard on max and her extreme, unspeakable trauma doesn’t help matters per se. it’s not shocking that she struggles to understand amanda’s boundaries, nor is it particularly surprising that max would decide to kiss both amanda and vinh without thinking about said consequences of doing so. max was feeling like shit during that part of spin too! she was clearly desperate to feel better about herself, and to not feel the crushing loneliness safi’s anger left her with. she was seeking companionship and those feel-good emotions … i think most of max’s behavior is supposed to be read as very impulsive during that sequence anyway? there is no thought to any of it. vinh comes onto her, so she kisses him with a shitty ‘i’m drunk’ excuse that holds no weight, because max clearly isn’t drunk and because she confesses to thinking about such a scenario before in her journal … and also forgets about reggie’s front row seat too. amanda tells max she has to kiss her first, and max has been wanting this since episode one and was denied, so she kisses her and is so eager for it, she tries getting amanda to sleep with her. initially turning down the idea of talking with another suggestive comment.

it’s all very … impulsive! max is rather impulsive with romance. she kisses chloe on a dare, kisses warren because they all might die, so why not … there is naturally genuine affection and desire there, but max does not think these things through. it’s exactly why her and amanda clash so much, honestly. amanda wants to communicate everything down to the last minute detail, meanwhile max struggles to talk about anything, ever, when it’s personal and close to her heart. she is fine having sex without the big relationship talk. she is fine asking a girl out without clarifying if it’s a date or not. etc! i personally think it’s very in character for max to kiss both, if you choose, just as much as it’s in character for max to kiss neither.

now about the lack of consequences, i think this is a good point? i suppose i was initially just happy with the fact amanda had something to say about it at all, since i truly believed it wouldn’t matter at the end of things. but i do also wish amanda had more to say? i like that she’s mad about the vinh thing and the fact that max had the nerve to ask where they stood when she was clearly pursuing another option … although i can maybe see why she wouldn’t firmly call it off either, even though max technically hurt her double. as amanda says, she called it off with max in dead world. and one date doesn’t equal any sort of exclusivity anyway. there is technically nothing ‘wrong’ with max seeing the other fish in the sea, even if it hurts amanda’s feelings that max would do so at all. i think amanda has a habit of being more lenient on max than she usually is with girls, because of a.) really, really liking her, and b.) because max isn’t like other girls. which sounds stupid, yet it’s true! there are so many new factors being introduced to amanda, ones she’s never created boundaries for, and then there’s max’s obvious trauma … she has a tendency to almost hyper-sympathize with max, i think. she can reluctantly see her point of view or at least feel bad that max feels bad. can excuse what should be red flags because amanda has clearly been in toxic relationships before, and she has a problem about over catering to emotionally unavailable types specifically. you could view a lot of her leniency towards max as amanda backsliding, in a way. i also think amanda putting them on ice ( again! ) is her way of seeing how the vinh thing plays out, if it does at all. i’m sure in a hypothetical lis:de2 that amanda would stick to being just friends if max kept pursuing vinh, or that maybe there’d be a plot of finding a middle poly ground of sorts, depending. as amanda says, she’s currently going through a lot and needs time to sort her shit out. she hates what max did but she can’t fully close that door because she does like max and it’s … complicated. the vinh thing stung, although it’s likely not something she’s thought a lot about since she was more appalled by the ‘kissing another me who didn’t break up with you’ thing. maybe she needs to think about it more? these are all ideas and just some vague characterization points i could see! i do think it’s valid to believe that amanda should’ve called it off completely. i can see that as much as her struggling to turn max away permanently.

( as for max seeming receptive to winning amanda back and vinh’s subtle hints at a future together … well! i do not think she’s thinking. still. her head might explode if she has to think about choosing between two people she really, really likes right now … she is already taking such a huge step forward when those talks happen! she does not have more energy for more vulnerability and the likes at the moment, i don’t believe. in general, max is perhaps just eager to keep them in her life as permanent fixtures? she still wants that romantic dynamic, certainly, but maybe she’s more eager and happy about the notion that vinh and amanda want to be in her life in a close way. this is a girl who cannot seperate a best friend from a lover, after all )

i also agree with the vinh take here! he’d be far more dismissive of it due to his previous, uncommitted nature. vinh already suspected that amanda and max had something before he tries wooing her! it is not something he cares for … at least, not in the sense that he’d feel bad for their kiss or further developments. i do think he’d be jealous ( vinh is a jealous person when it comes to people he genuinely cares for, as stated with safi ) and would maybe get a little clingy as a result, but there’d be no consequences or breaking things off. this is the same man who took one night stands from safi because it’s all she’d give him and the same man who fiercely protected his porcupine figurine that was probably cheap as all hell because safi have it to him on a whim. there is not much that can shake his affections for a person! he would be fine with the double kissing and would find amanda a little silly for caring so much, given his ‘too principled’ comment. jealous, but fine. him asking for further clarification on where max stands later on also makes sense to me. i do think vinh would want to be better and wouldn’t want to repeat his one-sided relationship with safi via max, so i’d like to believe he’d have that mature conversation when the time comes. might take a while, but he would probably get there!

anyway. sorry for the ungodly length of this! hope this was alright to add <3

You know, I don’t actually mind the fact that you can kiss both Amanda and Vinh within a single playthrough because 1) Max could literally already do this in the first game with Chloe and Warren and 2) this is a choice based game. YOU CONTROL THE BUTTONS YOU PRESS. If you personally do not think your Max would do something like that, then just don’t fucking choose to do it? I don’t really understand why people are so insulted that it’s even an option as plenty of choice based games and RPGs allow you to do relatively scummy/morally questionable things.

However, what I do mind is the resolution of this choice, or more specifically the lack of consequences for doing something like this at the end of the game. I personally just…do not understand why Amanda is still willing to give Max a chance after she saw her kiss Vinh. One of the big things about Amanda is that boundaries are super important to her, and she clearly already felt as if they were being crossed with Max pursuing her in one timeline after she rejected her in the other. That’s fine. But what I don’t understand is why Amanda is still willing to give Max a chance at “winning her back” after seeing her kiss Vinh right in front of her as well?? Like, I know Amanda really likes Max, but I feel like in this route she should have just completely called off any relationship happening between them and just settled on them being friends.

I’m also just very confused about Max’s behavior at the end as well because she’s clearly still receptive to Vinh wanting to pursue whatever they have going on…but she’s also still pining for Amanda as well and even accepts the challenge of winning her back?? Like, in the long term what does this mean for either relationships?? 😭😭

What I do find interesting however is Vinh’s whole stance in this situation. He doesn’t seem to know about Max kissing Amanda (due to not seeing it) but I actually do wonder what his reaction to this information would be. I personally do believe he would be far more chill about it and would still actively want to pursue something with her regardless, but I also believe at some point he would want some further clarification on where Max stands, especially if they do reach a point where they are talking about exclusivity and whatnot.

[professorspork]

Wicked 1/23/25, National Tour @ Hollywood Pantages in Los Angeles

HELLO FRIENDS.

I have just seen Wicked LIVE AND IN PERSON for the first time since *checks notes* holy shit six years exactly to the day, I saw Jackie Burns and Kara Lindsay on 1/23/19 in this very same theater

that's wild

anyway i was very disappointed in past me's note-taking so today i wrote down EVERYTHING

but also i didn't remember to pack my notepad like i thought i did so i ended up scribbling wildly on my hand, and then my arm, and then my ankle like i was possessed by some eldritch horror

no, i can't read a word of that either

anyway COME ON THIS JOURNEY WITH ME, SHALL WE?

ngl a massive reason I bought this ticket was to see openly queer Mullet Glinda herself, Austen Danielle Bohmer, so I happily took a photo of the company listing when I walked in:

...only to then be very put out when I opened up my Playbill and saw that in fact I was scheduled to see the second understudy, Allsun O'Malley:

I asked an usher if he knew who would be Glinda and he was like "I'm pretty sure the board out front is correct?" so I had to wait in feverish anticipation to know for sure

In the meantime I saw this note:

...which made me hope I might get to hear the audible electric guitar music variants in Dancing Through Life etc that the LA production used to do in the Eden and Megan days but alas, it did not happen

seeing Austen also did not happen, and I could tell IMMEDIATELY because when the bubble floated in there was a visible like EIGHT INCHES OF CLEARANCE between the top of Glinda's head and the bubble and i was like "well that ain't Tall Glinda"

(Allsun is very aware that she is a short queen, bless)

here's the thing about Allsun O'Malley: she has a DISTINCTIVELY naturally low speaking voice and she doesn't do a thing to hide it as Glinda. Helen was pondering aloud the other day if Every Glinda Does A Voice and I had speculated that yeah, probably, bc if they're not doing Billie Burke they're doing Cheno and if they're not doing Cheno they're doing The Concept Of Glinda and like. nah. she'd sing the operatic high notes and then talk with this brassy alto and it was SO distinctive and interesting. (this is also a surprise tool that will help us later)

i cannot explain why I feel this so strongly, but the closest analog I can come up with to the energy and presence of Allsun's Glinda is like. Nate Stevenson???? the comparison came to me IMMEDIATELY and I could not articulate just what it is if you paid me but i felt it in my bones

okay thoughts scene by scene that's how we'll do this

NO ONE MOURNS THE WICKED

I really liked how my Frex, Wayne Schroder, did "I'm off to the assembly, dear." It was like. Actually distracted and off the cuff like real married couples speak and not Hello I Am Union And Delivering My First Big Line and i appreciated that

Glinda got SO close to memory!Boq and almost touched his face, which moved me. Allsun's "it was a long time ago, and we were both very young" was satisfyingly near-tears

DEAR OLD SHIZ

tonight's Boq, Alex Vinh, had a ponytail! spoiler alert his Tinman did not have a silver tinsel ponytail which was a great disappointment

ROOM ASSIGNMENTS

Lauren Samuels is ALSO A SHORT QUEEN pocket sized gelphie made me feral. Lauren's portrayal of Elphie kind of faded into the background at times because Allsun and later Xavier McKinnon (😍🥵 MORE ON HIM IN A MINUTE) were both so charismatic but I did enjoy it very much

her "I'm beautifully tragic" was fuckin great, really leaned into the humor

when Galinda introduced herself as "Galinda Upland... of the Upper Uplands" she held out her hand like she expected Morrible to kiss it

Morrible did not kiss it

speaking of Morrible, Aymee Garcia has a SHOCKINGLY good voice and after seeing so many bootleg Morribles who don't bother to sing at all getting such a strong and lovely singer was a wonderful jolt to the system

Galinda didn't do a full trust fall faint at "something's wrong, I didn't get my way" (totally fair, not something I think is reasonable to expect from a second u/s) but Allsun still linked elbows with her friends, which is notable only because she did it later in the exact same way after Dillamond booted everyone from class like "Animals Should Be Seen And Not Heard" had also affected her (or admittedly possibly like she was worried she'd be blamed for it)

THE WIZARD AND I

Lauren did the thing where when Elphie says "when we work hand in hand" she holds up her best friend Suitcase by the handle and this is a Little Elphie Thing I always love

WHAT IS THIS FEELING?

rather disappointingly, this is one of the moments I honestly don't have big feelings about, which is telling. Allsun's G(a)linda is very obsessed with Elphie but enduringly, tragically straight about it and it was obvious to me as early as here I would not be Getting Everything I Wanted

HOWEVER

she did a full on Tevye-style shoulder shimmy for that last moment when Galinda's dancing and Elphie hip-checks her and it was very good

HISTORY CLASS/SOMETHING BAD

Kingsley Leggs did not get touchy with his students and did do the air quotes for "scapegoat" so perfect Dillamond no notes

I'm also not sure of most Dillamonds do this and it's not in the shot re: boots, but he explicitly shushed Elphaba before she could tell Morrible what happened from behind Morrible's back which I liked v much

DANCING THROUGH LIFE

Xavier's Fiyero is dreamy as fuck and can dance so well and can sing so pretty and i am SO VERY ENAMORED

srsly cannot overstate how fabulous he was, even though he's obviously a fiyeraba truther and not a thropple guy more on that later tho

bc i know my wife will ask, yes Allsun did the pokey stab at "sharp, doncha think" but did not do it hard enough for the hat to actually make contact w Lauren's stomach

Allsun was so short you could barely tell Xavier was dipping her lmaooooo

for the first time i noticed a sad wallflower dancer girl who's by herself near the stairs for most of the Ozdust portion and i want to know what her deal is

Allsun HUGGED Morrible at "how can I express my gratitution?" and lmao Morrible did not care for it one bit

Xavier did the cutest little shoulder nudge at "then what's the matter?" and at hearing "nothing" transformed into The Most Suave Man In The World for "good, let's dance" as like a SEDUCTION line it was great

Lauren's solo dance ruled, peak intense cringe

VERY striking to me that when Galinda first approaches Elphie, the crowd goes "yaaaaas!" like they think she's going to get off a really good zinger. they then LAUGH at "can I cut in?" as though that in itself is the insult they were waiting for. in the boots I've seen I've mostly taken this for audience laughter at that line, but tonight it was VERY clear it was from the ensemble

SECRETS/POPULAR

Allsun started the scene fully belly-flopped on the bed and remained laying down for "Your very first party?" which is the first time I've seen that

Lauren's English accent made its only appearance during the milkflowers monologue when she let out a "mum"

After the popular/LAR moment when Galinda has to dance cross the stage and then return to the bed, Allsun chose to do so by doing a lasso motion and pulling herself back to Elphie which charmed me utterly

Allsun did a full fucking split at "very very popular like me" it was damn impressive

I hope there's an Allsun boot someday her toss toss pose also involves particular foot placement and she MADE Lauren stand up and copy her

Lauren also fully tossed her hair entirely into her face so hard she had to pick it out of her mouth, I'm p sure she must do this every night it ruled

however this Popular still sealed Allsun's fate as Very Straight, the vibes were just. not there alas.

LION CUB

SINCE WHEN IS THERE WIRE WORK WHERE ELPHIE FLOATS TWO OF THE STUDENTS??? WHEN DID THEY MAKE THIS CHANGE??!?!?! i was astonished lmao

Lauren and Xavier really made a meal of "you think i'm really stupid don't you?" "no! not... really stupid" and I knew then for sure this was a Fiyeraba Truther cast

I'M NOT THAT GIRL

another "SINCE WHEN?" moment: the tour cheaped out on getting a bridge the cast could actually walk on, so the bridge is a flat set piece and then in the interlude Galinda and Fiyero actually just run onto the stage to dance in the rain and there's a spinning hug and it is DEVASTATINGLY EFFECTIVE at showing the two of them actually enjoying dating with Elphie on the outside looking in, I loved it, it should be like this everywhere

TRAIN SCENE

they modified the blocking so that rather than drag elphie back after she tries to run after Nessa, Allsun just body blocks Elphie completely from chasing by holding out an arm which I loved

Fiyeraba trutherism cont'd, Xavier *sprinted* past Allsun to give Elphie her flowers before having to cross all the way back for her. she then grabbed the flowers to offer them ALONGSIDE him at "we're both so happy for you" which charmed me but again, it read competitive not compersive

I can't explain how but Allsun delivered "I've always wanted to see the Emerald City" in this sweetly vulnerable way, like it was something she'd mentioned to Elphie before and she was touched Elphaba remembered

ONE SHORT DAY

Ever since Helen told me she heard an audio boot where Lindsay Mendez read the line "finally somewhere I belong" instead of "i belong" and I've wanted one ever since and Lauren delivered

in the long pause after "two BEST friends" it was Lauren who broke and reached first. this was repeated later in "I hope you're happy, now that you're choosing this" which is striking to me because I was/am going to make a punctum about how Annaleigh Ashford always did it the exact opposite, where she reached first and let her Elphies choose to take her hand

AUDIENCE WITH OZ

when Elphie was bowing during "I'm Elphaba Thropp your terribleness" Glinda was coaching her through doing it from the sidelines like Amy Poehler in Mean Girls

Blake Hammond's first two credits in his bio are Edna in Hairspray and Pumbaa in Lion King, and he plays the Wizard exactly how you would expect knowing these two things

A SENTIMENTAL MAN

yes Helen he did do "son or daughter" like Glinda was his son, as god intended

LEVITATION SPELL

Lauren was d e v a s t a t e d after "you have no real power," she wasn't even listening to "exactly, and that's why i need you" she was fully head down hair covering her face CRYING crying

DEFYING GRAVITY

Allsun's "STOP" was authoritative rather than soul-rending, but then she knelt down NEXT to Lauren and HUGGED HER AROUND THE SHOULDERS for "maybe you're not as powerful as you think you are"

Lauren delivered "come with me; think of what we could do... together" near tears and i loved it

this was the biggest moment Allsun's second understudy status shined through, for a second there she couldn't get the cape clasp closed and it was an UNCOMFORTABLY long fermata for the orchestra giving her the room to do it before transitioning into the Elphie gets to her feet drum roll

again, not sure if this was a Them Thing or if this always happens and I never noticed because boots are in closeup and I wasn't looking for it before, but at "and if I'm flying solo" Lauren did a full on goodbye wave to Allsun as like a farewell of forgiveness and understanding and Allsun reach-waved back

growl at the beginning of ~battlecry, ty Lauren for my life

INTERMISSION

it was my intention to spend my intermission beginning the draft of this post and frantically try and decipher the mad scribblings i'd made up my arms, but i instead spent most of it talking to the woman next to me, a gregarious mom who'd brought her two girls

she told me she'd only just seen the movie and then DIDN'T GO ON THE INTERNET bc she DIDN'T WANT SPOILERS FOR ACT TWO

!!!!

reader i loved her this woman made my night

she was so into everything and when I told her about how often I'd seen the show she asked me so many questions about what changed over time and was so impressed by what they managed to do on stage

also one of her daughters was like "mom, elphaba's FUNNY!" in surprised delight and uh yeah that is my greatest criticism of Cynthia's portrayal and the fact that these random normies could tell was. a lot. to me.

it was only at this moment that it dawned to me how FULL this audience was of kids and parents in this exact same position, people who legitimately did not know what was coming in act 2

the following are the moments that earned OUT LOUD GASPS from the WHOLE AUDIENCE due to this fact:

Tin Man reveal

Dillamond under the blanket reveal

"use her sister"

"things that don't belong to us" up through the slaps, gasps on EACH ESCALATING LINE/MOMENT

Fiyero turning the gun on Glinda

"she was yours all along" THEY. DID NOT. SEE. THIS. COMING.

anyway

THANK GOODNESS

pitch-perfect "not how you described it to me"/"not exactly but we'll talk about it later"

because, again, the bridge was not something the ensemble could stand on, everyone was just crowded around the platform for this, which made it feel (purposefully and effectively) claustrophobic. despite being an obvious Fiyeraba truther Xavier is so GALLANT to Glinda in this scene, because like-- when Morrible gets the crowd all riled up and they start choking in, he made this protective motion like he thought they were gonna grab at Glinda and he was keeping her safe

then after stalking off, he trotted back to give Glinda a chivalrous hand down from the platform like it was just pure instinct

SINCE WHEN DOES POPULAR MOTIF PLAY UNDER THE GLINDA AND FIYERO TALK???!?

however the fact that I have more to say about Xavier's choices in this scene than I do Allsun says all you need to know i think

WICKED WITCH OF THE EAST

Erica Ito hadn't made much of an impression on me in act 1 but she ATE in this scene. nessa was fierce as fuck and actually scared me at "lost your heart?"

also before that she did the thing Michelle Federer used to do and looked all paranoid over her shoulder after "i'm an unelected official" like people could be listening and i've missed it

Lauren did EXCELLENT reaching as Allsun and Xavier left the stage in the scene transition into Wonderful

WONDERFUL / FREEING THE MONKEYS / REUNION

sorry Mr. Hammond i have nothing more to say abt your Wizard

Allsun got big laughs on her pained, awkward-trying-to-be-chipper delivery of "we all went to school together"

the fiyeraba trutherism comes home to roost, i have never seen any fiyero burst out "i'm going with her" so fucking fast

his callousness there was balanced by how kindly he pulled off the "well it was -- but it wasn't" to both

still, he was fully out the room and expected elphie to just follow him after his exit bc he didn't grab her hand, so he had to COME BACK FOR HER and DRAG her away bc she wouldn't stop making eye contact w Glinda

Morrible did a full on evil laugh after "change in the weather"

AS LONG AS YOU'RE MINE

exactly as horny as you'd expect given everything else i've said so far but Lauren REALLY gave it her all on that front

the mom next to me literally said "spicy!" under her breath after "for the first time i feel wicked"

lauren was THIRSTY going in for that parting kiss after the Kiamo Ko invite

CATFIGHT

this is where it all fell apart a little, because Allsun being 2nd u/s just didn't have the chemistry there to pull off all the transitions

she also couldn't quite manage the wand twirl which was a bummer

i think this became a more common move for Glindas in the late 2010s but she went in to touch foreheads w Fiyero after "he loves her" and it killed me

NO GOOD DEED

not nearly feral enough for my tastes sry Lauren.

i will say a lot of this was not her fault, current tour choreo for stages without the trapdoor entrance demands she just HOLD the grimmerie for half the scene before awkwardly handing it off to Chistery and it is very distracting

MARCH OF THE WITCH HUNTERS

noose lady was VERY front and center my goodness

again bc tour Glinda and Boq had to enter via platforms being wheeled on instead of having the built-ins, and for the first time i noticed Glinda's is her Thank Goodness platform. that made me froth at the mouth.

aymee was PERFECT at "you've wanted this from the beginning and now you're getting what you wanted" but kind of undersold "so just smile and wave and shut up" tbh

FOR GOOD

helen has been keeping a timer of how long it takes gelphie to touch after the song starts in earnest at "i've heard it said" and tonight was zero seconds Allsun started out already gripping Lauren's shoulder

and here is where Allsun's deep speaking voice comes in, because it has this thing where instead of Glinda taking the lower harmony feeling like she's changed it feels like she's finally being honest/herself for the first time musically

FINALE

somehow DJ Smart managed to make "M-Miss? Miss Glinda...." sound not only like Chistery struggling to speak but like CHISTERY HAD A LUMP IN HIS THROAT BC HE THINKS ELPHIE IS DEAD TOO

NOT TELLING GLINDA AND FIYERO IS ONE THING BUT ELPHABA HOW DARE YOU NOT TELL CHISTERY

speaking of, Xavier passed on the Chain Of Forehead Touch from Allsun to Lauren at "no one can ever know" he was SO SAD and i prefer that so much to Fiyeros who are strident or chiding

SERIOUSLY ELPHABA YOU DIDN'T TELL CHISTERY YOU'RE ALIVE? GIRL.

anyway at curtain call Lauren made sure to do Big Gesture at Allsun bc she gets to do this So Rarely and i had an emotion

AND THAT WAS MY NIGHT oops this took me two hours to write and i still have work in the morning

oh well, worth it

[langfield]

do you think vinh was actually in love with safi? i know he starts doubting that he ever was in chapter 5, but if he wasn’t actually in love what do you think his true feelings for her were? emotional attachment maybe? on safi’s side, i think it’s interesting how even after knowing about vinh’s statement about maya she still decides to hook up with him for a time (only to eventually stop sometime prior to the game?? maybe they had another falling out idk). their relationship in general is just very fascinating to me lmao.

god, the safi-vinh dynamic is certainly one filled with intrigue because of all the intense emotions attached to the people within it ; aimed at each other and also at the bystanders whom haunted around their not so defined relationship. there’s just so much baggage attached to them, you know? mostly painful things and a general sense of betrayal or regret, creating a potion of this general wishy washy bullshit that’s hard to parse through … more so in safi’s case than vinh’s, but i’ll touch upon that later! as for your question about vinh and his true feelings, well.

maybe he was in love with safi once upon a time. maybe the fact he believed that he was in love with her is really all that matters. i suppose it depends on what your definition of romantic love and utter devotion is. it’s undeniable he cared fiercely for safi, enough so to become jealous of max ( safi’s object of obsession ), swear off serious relationships in hope she’d want him back, and to engage in a general meddling within her life to make sure she comes out of situations as unscathed as possible. i mean, he schemes to steal a cow skull and then proceeds to throw it through her windshield in an attempt to save yasmin’s and safi’s relationship … it is very extra of him to do, in fact it’s a literal crime, and the game has both max and safi acknowledge the intensity of said action in episode four. we see the memory of the hedgehog he proudly displays on his desk, the carelessness in which safi treats it, her ‘i’ll buy you another one if it breaks’, and how vinh simpers beneath that offer because he doen’t want a new one, he wants this one, the one safi gave him : a gift that was likely unprompted, some sort of surprise maybe, given to him on a whim and cherished better than any other possession he owns. we also see how he breaks it when she dies. then there’s photos upon photos of safi on his phone and it’s implied he takes pictures after they sleep together and -- that isn’t even touching upon how he practically gives up on himself after her death. the mask drops, he starts trying to branch out and find acting gigs elsewhere, wanting to leave caledon forever, and there’s a sense of raw anger and loneliness he feels when she’s gone. he stops hooking up and pushes everyone away besides max, whom he clings to, and it’s a lot, right? there’s love there. obsession, probably. in many ways he’s still the ‘puppy’ following safi around like gwen said, only without maya this time. he waits and stews and he wants, certainly, for her to love him … but was it purely romantic love? who’s to say!

i think vinh wanted safi as his girlfriend before, maybe when things weren’t so tense, and he still believed that fiercely even when he stopped wanting it. i don’t think he knew where his feelings started to dwindle into something less excited and more resigned, or when he started looking for someone else. his priority remained with safi and with yasmin and thus there wasn’t a lot of time to dissect his heart, a rather vulnerable act he already struggles with anyway. he’s a repressive sort of man. he doesn’t do a lot of introspection because he has an act to maintain, a reputation to follow. but i do believe that by the time double exposure takes place, vinh’s love for safi has indeed shifted because his attraction to max veers on something that isn’t purely sexual. there is an undeniable interest, both in dead and living world, that he’s either embracing or squirming away from … i do not think vinh had many crushes at all when he was in love with safi. i don’t think he allowed himself that luxury, because he didn’t want to move on from her, or put himself off the market in case she wanted him again, in bed or in some profound, loving sense. lots of waiting. lots of surrendering, ‘she’ll come around, we’ll make up’, and hoping despite himself. so his romance with max proves to me that vinh is somewhat right in saying ‘or i thought i was’ when talking about safi and being in love with her, because he was before, but he isn’t exactly in love with her now, if that makes sense? i’d say an emotional attachment is a good title for what they have by the time of the games events.

( i do not wish to diminish vinh’s feelings, but i also think there’s a case to be made that he was rather desperate when he thought himself in love with safi ; there was a lot of insecurity within him back when he was a student, weighed down by the fact he was poor and not your standard run-of-the-mill white man … as an adult he scoffs at his acting abilities and wields his power as head of abraxas with a rather tight fist, as though it’s the only control he’s ever had before. it’s rather clear his only two friends were safi and maya and that vinh hasn’t had any since them -- was desperate to stay on their heels despite the fact he was never really apart of whatever they had. it’s not a stretch to speculate that vinh was, perhaps, a cocktail mix of loneliness and desperation rather than strictly in love with safi. maybe confused his all-consuming need to be around her as desire, or maybe just enjoyed feeling wanted by safi enough to mix his wires. after all, why was it safi he was in love with and not maya? vinh also uses sex as a means of coping, as seen by his rather active sex life in game via hookup apps and reggie, so maybe his sex with safi was just that. coping. in it’s own way. regardless, he did love her, or so he thinks so, and to me i think that’s enough, speculation aside )

safiya’s side of things is much more difficult than vinh’s, who is more obvious about his feelings towards her than he thinks he is. there are some brief contradictions, like how it’s stated that safi doesn’t care for vinh ( which is true ) and yet she also acknowledges that when she split apart and lost herself, all that was left of her was moses, lucas, gwen, and vinh. we know that moses and gwen matter to safi, or mattered, and that at one point safi might’ve admired lucas … so where does that leave vinh? if she doesn’t hate him like gwen or lucas now, and if she doesn’t cherish him like moses or max, why is he still apart of her? what does that mean? is it just a metaphor for their times with maya, and how safi will always be connected to that past with vinh because of her love for the caledon’s personal dead girl? was her sleeping with vinh about maya too? or did she actually care for vinh once, albeit weakly and casually, and did that fleeting moment of affection count when she vanished into everyone who’s ever thoroughly affected her life? and, as you said, it’s so fascinating that she hooks up with vinh at all post maya death … it feels strange and odd and unlike her. even in their intimate picture together after fooling around she is nothing but angry, disinterested, her underwear and bra are already back on ( if they were ever off at all? ) and while that’s on account of safi just hating photos, i also think it’s a testament to how irritable she finds vinh’s presence when stuck in it. it’s not a happy photo really, even vinh’s expression is a little red-eyed, forced, like he was likely wasted the night prior. i wouldn’t be surprised if safi was only able to be with vinh if she was … you know … literally out of her mind drunk or high or what have you.

though, that’s just speculation of course. my vague take on things is that safi went to vinh whenever she was partied out or if she was feeling particularly destructive that day ; choked with self loathing over her mom or maya and so sex with vinh was a means for her to feel even worse. some sort of self harm, some sort of outlet where she could be particularly cruel and evil without consequence, because vinh would take it and roll over -- could even be her way of controlling things too, like vinh with abraxas, because we know vinh has no issues with being led around in the bedroom, so that’s some food for thought. i don’t think she thinks about it after or remembers it much … she really doesn’t think about vinh unless it suits her or if she needs to. i always notice how, in episode four, safiya immediately knows what max is talking about when she asks if safi’s ever transformed into amanda, gwen, or lucas. she owns up immediately, confesses, and understands intimately what situation max is referring to. but when max asks about vinh and the phone, there is a brief moment where safi just stares blankly at her -- like she’s thinking about it, like she doesn’t even remember, before it finally clicks after a beat. either she wears vinh’s metaphorical skin a lot ( which, to be fair, she does pretend to be vinh a lot in game ) or she literally thinks of him so little she’ll forget everything about him in minutes. both are likely! she doesn’t even recall what type of alcohol he likes, calling it bougie japanese brandy ‘or whatever’ … and can’t be assed to remember his phone’s pin number exactly, only vague details about a magician scientist that she clearly thought was boring and lame when vinh told her said story, if her hostility and complete forgetfulness is anything to go by. for me, it’s easy to get caught up in a ‘safi did care! she had to!’ angle about vinh, although the game repeatedly shows you over and over again that she does not. she doesn’t even care that max kissed him really, if anything, she’s more jealous of vinh being with max given some of her remarks :

( i know, technically, safi’s ‘come again?’ is more nervous than jealous per se … but there is a certain air to it, especially given the ‘i can be your new boyfriend’ comment as seen above lol. if she loves max and doesn’t care for vinh, i can only imagine how she’d feel about their romance in particular! )

and, of course, there’s that part in episode four where safi can disguise herself as vinh in order to tear lucas a new one. i enjoy that part for many reasons! seeing how safi feels so much more comfortable in someone else’s skin than her own is fascinating and makes for good foreshadowing … but there is also the reveal of her opinions on vinh, unabashed and shameless, when she is finally giving him an ounce of thought :

it’s interesting! she doesn’t care for him, really, doesn’t loathe him like lucas or gwen or her own mother, but there’s a level of vitriol regardless. she thinks him fake. she thinks him a coward. she thinks he’s scared of facing consequences and that he only acts in his own self interest and she hates every bit of that. while safi can confess to doing maya wrong and hating herself for it, she never allows vinh that same courtesy. even says as much to max, claiming that only she had the humanity to regret her choice while vinh apparently didn’t. and yet … she doesn’t hate him? doesn’t feel strongly towards him? he’s still apart of her, a large part, and she can get along with him fine on crosstalk if she so pleases and she can hate his guts but, when the raw truth is revealed, she apparently feels nothing towards him at all? it is fascinating to think about is all. how she doesn’t wish him dead but doesn’t care if he’s alive either despite everything they’ve been through, even though she hates gwen and lucas and her mother more. it’s rather mean, though that’s what makes it so complex and interesting. it shows that safi only ever cares ( and oh, does she care fiercely, obsessively ) for a very slim group of people, and that when push comes to shove, everyone else can fend for themselves for all she cares. she would protect moses and max in a heartbeat, without thought, and the piece of her within them tries valiantly to keep them safe by locking them away from the world ( another thing to dissect, certainly! ), but she doesn’t really extend such empathy towards the innocents caught in her crossfire. she may be tormenting lucas and gwen specifically, but everyone else was going to be collateral damage and safi was fine with that. at least a little bit. vinh falls in that category of inevitable damage, i think, despite their closeness and despite their history, and you can tell that’s what really wounds him at the end of things. safi couldn’t even torment him, didn’t have the want or energy to do so, he was valiantly apart of her and safi didn’t even care about that. very interesting! it’s also heartbreaking in many ways to see two people who should’ve been able to lean on each other, who should’ve loved one another, be nothing but strangers at the end of things. an example of how tragedy doesn’t always bring people closer. sometimes it drives you worlds apart from the one you should be grieving with, which can be seen in other life is strange games, most notably with chloe and joyce, i think.

anyway! tldr : it’s complicated and worth exploring. there are many ways you can interpret their relationship and i highly encourage everyone to find what angle is most interesting to them! and i don’t blame you for finding their dynamic fascinating because it’s easily one of my favorites in double exposure … i don’t think of it often, but it’s always lingering in the back of my mind. regardless, i hope this word vomit is helpful! if i brought up more questions than answers, i do apologize. but thank you so much for such a fun question <3 it was an absolute blast, and tickled my brain enough to pump this out asap.

[nonam-vi]

OH MY GAHHHHHH SHE'S SO PRETTYYYYY!!! She always gave me "blonde female protagonist of a YA book/movie" vibes, like the ones that you see Y/N Wattpad stories are based off of. That and the fact that she reminds me of Katniss Everdeen. That reminds me I should probably finish the first movie of HG, huh-

Not sure if I'm going for this design for sure, but!!! Evelyn Wynd concept art!!!

also she looks like a deer in headlights except the deer actually runs away. Not sure what that says about her but yeah

I tried super hard to give her defining features but I kept backtracking and giving her softer ones because she isn't all that directly imposing when neutral. Now she looks like the protagonist of a 2010s fantasy novel ngl (I had Sophie from Keepers of the lost cities in my references so I guess that works!)

[yuraimi-lee-bunny]

About the DE Chloe mod creator, he is very weird and racist and said he’s going to make a mod that replaces Vinh with Warren out of spite to make people who’ve been calling him racist upset about the Chloe mod. I can see you like Warren and as a poc myself who both likes Warren and Vinh, I think it’s the right thing to do to be against this kind of petty behavior and taking away representation from people. I apologize if this is a little strange I’m sending you an message like this, but it seems right because this is about racism and you also care, considering the way the creator speaks about LIS2 and Sean and Daniel. I really hope this person doesn’t create it, but if he does I am asking Warren stans to not support this person! There are ways to create fan content and I don’t think this is the way! The only thing I will say left is that if you’re on twitter you should block him, he’s been sending threats, calling people slurs, sending NSFW pictures, being creepy etc. Again I’m sorry if this message is a lot, but I hope you can accept it. Have a nice day.

Hi! On the contrary, thank you very much for sending me your ask!

Yes, I found out the day he said that and I attached proof so that some don't think it's a lie.

And don't worry, I had no intention of supporting him in the slightest. Personally, I don't like his Chloe Mod and I find it disrespectful that he does that to a character like Amanda. And if someone comes to say what many say "it's always been mod swapping, why are you complaining now?" it's because it's always been done between white characters, never with POC characters. That's the HUGE difference.

I love LiS2, and I'm mexican, so of course I don't like this guy's attitude at all. At the moment he hasn't attacked me or anything and I doubt he will, but I'll take your warning into account. Thanks.

And I totally understand you! I'm an illustrator, I've been doing LiS work since 2015 and I'm also organizing a fanzine that tomorrow ends the Artists application! All information here in @listarotzine

I love LiS so much and what I would like most is for us all to come together to be creative and celebrate this 10th anniversary in the best way possible!

[arcadiabaytornado]

Live Playing Double Exposure Chapter 1 Part 2 (Except I’m not live playing because I forgot to post this when I was live playing. 😅)

A: Theory: It’s an alternative universe version of Max leaving the polaroids around.

B: I hate the owl imagery given the last time we got owl imagery it was during the barn in the first game.

C: The sound design on this game is great. I don’t know how I feel about the actual songs, but the sound design is great.

D: Safi just…sitting slumped over like that after getting shot was super fucking eerie holy shit.

E: Man. They’re really rubbing Chloe and Max’s “forever” in our noses huh.

F: It’s so sad to know that Chloe and Max were never the same after the storm. I mean, you know they wouldn’t be, but it seemed like they were doing okay in LIS 2. :(

G: “If I could undo your death I would do it without a second thought” I’m going to analyze the hell out of this line later because holy shit it’s crazy for Max to say that.

H: Max’s avoidant tendencies are stressing me out. Don't get wrong they make perfect sense for her characters, but I'm still stressed all the same. Like, PLEASE let people share in your grief. PLEASE talk to Safi's Mother.

I: Max having a dark room made my stomach drop. I know it’s perfectly normal for a photographer to have a room like that, but to see the words “dark room” in a LIS game made my stomach flip. It sure is a character note that it's not a "dark room" "dark room" though, it's more of a laundry room.

J: What??? So Max just saw her friend get murdered and now she's getting dressed up cute for her crush??? I'm glad we get to see Max's house...but that was a...weird scene transition.

K: I have so much to say about the journal, but I'm going to have to make a full post on it because I just can't quickly sum up my feelings here.

L: Okay. So Chloe broke up with Max due to storm trauma basically. Because that’s what I’m taking from this.

M: YEARS. Max and Chloe have been broken up for YEARS?? I can’t think clearly about the timelines right now but does that mean they broke up not to long after LIS 2?

N: “You need to eat Max” I’m won over.

O: “Friend?” The way Max says that is devastating.

P: There’s celestial stuff all over the box! That seems relevant.

Q: I feel Reggie on a spiritual level.

R: I love that you can decide if Max is a tea or coffee drinker. I choose tea!

S: “You’re the real storm.” Max flashbacking to her nightmare. :((((((

T: It feels so cool to see Max’s work around campus. But seeing that Max’s first photo outside of Arcadia was one of a ruined dinner kills me considering she was likely thinking of Joyce and Warren.

U: Did Max just say “chucklefucks” LMAO

V: I feel like this game is going to age poorly given the amount of meme references.

W: Does Max have some chemistry with Vinh or am I insane??

X: Already love Gwen. In fact I’m so in love with her that I found her book in the library immediately, but decided to pick the lock to impress her.

Y: I’m also down to romance Vinh, and I think he’s a love interest? If he is then I’m going with Amanda in this save, but Vinh will get a flirty Max in the other one!

Z: It makes me laugh so hard that you can choose whether Max is ACAB or not.

[the-phantom-author]

Vinh Lang, I love you