#undyne analysis

[thecluelessdoctor]

undyne analysis

undyne is a favorite character of mine, I think that's well known. But there isn't... Alot to her outside of her relationship with alphys. And I get why, at first glance she does have the reset aware depth other characters such if flowey, the skeleton bros, and asgore have.

I mean I've gone through ... So much of her canon stuff in game. And at first glance, she seems unaware

...but after looking closer... Shes the most like the player compared to flowey.

determination kept her from dying.

She was so determined she turned herself into a almagmate. her soul could be pure determination, just her body holds her back

In genocide, her fight isn't you against her like it usually is. It's HER against YOU. You are the villain of this story. She is the hero.

And that makes her like the player. The player naturally desires to be the hero, to be the main character in a story.

Her determination also plays into this

Her determination kept her alive

Her determination... Did what you do every time you die. Every time you reset

But because she is a monster, her body melted and broke from it. She cant hold that power, despite possessing it.

I think her lack of depth was a purposeful choice.In genocide she is a parallel to Frisk

Frisk is a blank slate. Made to be controlled. Undyne lacks depth because she's the hero. Like frisk, she seemingly was made to be projected on for the player. But she doesn't HAVE a player, obviously. But she is still the hero.

Idk, little thoughts..

[bogos-bint3d]

Fandom will see a strong experienced woman and go "ermmmm, actually I don't think she's experienced actually, really she's actually just faking it because she's stupid and wants to look cooler." Fandom will see a character with a literal disability (literally blind in one eye) and say "ummm actually she's not actually. She's faking this disability. This woman who is the frontline defence for her entire species is intentionally displaying herself in a way that causes her several disadvantages in a battle. And like. Every day life probably as well. Because why would I take her seriously."

I could go on about this but I won't because I should probably go to bed soon.

Listen. Can you just actually take characters seriously rather than going haha no she's just silly she's just pretending no she's just faking loll. And just say hey maybe we can take certain aspects of this character more seriously. Please. At least for me. Guys. For me <3

[shedpuns]

I think a thing people don't recognize/play with in writing Undyne very much is that she's stupidly lucky. both in the small scale way of being a dumbass who lands on her feet every time she does something ridiculous and in the large scale way where she like she didn't intend to make such good friends with anyone. but she was in the right place at the right time and met the right person and lucked into so many friendships she wouldn't trade for the world. she didn't want to be close to anyone because it would only hurt them worse when her natural determination and her duty to fight humans killed her but lucky for her nobody fucking listened. and now she gets to live a happy life on the surface surrounded by family and friends and her wife because she happened on the right people at the right time to turn her life around. god.

[undertalethingems]

How do you think Sans reacts to Papyrus’s death during the runs?

If you mean in the base game, uh... we kinda already know? If Papyrus is killed, Sans doesn't show up again until the final corridor, where he'll ask "if you have some sort of special power, isn't it your responsibility to do the right thing?"

If you answer yes (that you do have that responsibility), then he responds, without eyelights or sound font, "Then why'd you kill my brother?"

And if you answer no (you aren't responsible), you get "well, that's your viewpoint. i won't judge you for it.... You dirty brother killer."

There's also the line of description you get if you go on to have a concert with Shyren after killing Papyrus: "A hooded figure watches the commotion from afar." It replaces the line that mentions Sans selling toilet paper tickets to your concert, and of course, of all the characters with hoods in the game, he's the one who would be most concerned with tracking your actions after killing Papyrus. So, it makes the most sense to infer that this hooded figure is Sans.

So his reactions, to me at least, suggest that not only is he heartbroken, he's furious with you. But Sans isn't one for direct confrontations and shouting like Undyne is, so he watches, and I think he still tries to understand why you'd do something so horrible. But that doesn't stop him from being angry because there's no excuse for killing his brother, but sparing other monsters, that he can fathom.

I'm personally not a fan of depictions of Sans sobbing over Papyrus' dusty scarf--he just doesn't strike me as a guy whose first reaction is to cry. For my understanding of him, it makes more sense for him to go numb, initially, then save his anger for his parting shot in the last corridor. No matter what you answer, Sans gets the last word in, and it's always to remind you that you did not have to kill his brother.

So uh, yeah. that's what I think.

[bogos-bint3d]

PUTTING PREV TAGS UP FOR EVERYONE TO SEE BECAUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Transcript: This might just be a me thing that I'm imagining but I feel like I notice a lot in fics that Undyne is always just reduced to this obstacle that is just a nuisance to whoever the fic's protagonist is (usually always frisk or the skelebros) that hinders them for a chapter or so and is then immediately just a joke or an afterthought after that. Again this is probably just me but she's never actually treated like a real character with nuance or layers or DEPTH or ANYTHING. She's just papyrus's boss who won't let him in the royal guard because she's just so mean, and wow isn't she so evil for trying to fight this kid wow that's so fucked up. And then that's just it, that is just her entire character. Or things where she's just an easily overcome roadblock for one of the skelebros to prove just how incredibly powerful they really are. She never feels like am actual character, just a plot device :( But idk. Old man yells at cloud

[goldflowerfield]

something something about how if you choose to go by the narrator chara theory it'd heavily imply that chara idolizes undyne and even without that undyne embodies several of chara's traits. the association with the number 9 as undying throughout her stats, taking things to their most extreme during her hangout which lead to her house burning down, her hatred of humanity, her closeness with asgore, etcetera. meanwhile flowey's favorite character is papyrus who also shares several traits with asriel. namely their unwillingness to kill and their desire to impress their best friend to the point they'd set aside their own feelings, for example: the grillby's phone call with both undyne and papyrus.

something something about how undyne and chara are both devoted to the freedom of monsterkind via the extermination of humanity but whereas chara's plan to free monsterkind heavily centered around asriel yet still failed to take the idea that asriel just didn't have it in him to kill into consideration, undyne tries her best to distance papyrus from her plans regardless of both his insistence and his power due to knowing he wouldn't be able to bring himself to kill someone even in a kill-or-be-killed situation. something something about how undyne is a grown adult whereas chara was an extremely young and troubled child. something something about how things could've turned out better if only chara were more mature and in the right state of mind.

(i really have to wonder what chara themself would think when hearing all that from undyne, especially as it only happens in a pacifist run and they'd likely already have had several of their outlooks challenged at that point via frisk. i wonder how it would feel to hear a situation so incredibly similar from someone who is so similar to you, yet made such a different decision and seeing how much better things could've turned out if you were just more thoughtful of your closest friend. if you were just a little more mature.)

[megaderping]

Undertale's No Mercy Run is vastly misunderstood, as the fandom fixates so much on hyping up the Sans battle that many of the route's brilliant deconstructive elements fall by the wayside. In this video, I go in-depth about the route and the way it functions as a deconstruction of RPG tropes, an exploration of how we as players relate to video games, how it sets up a mirror for the players through Flowey, and also just break down the cool elements and writing in each section of the route in addition to those hyped up moments.

[stainedglassthreads]

One thing I think I just realized is, in addition to being dissatisfied with how stories deal with Toriel’s grief compared to Asgore’s and Asriel’s, and how I don’t see many instances of Toriel and Asgore’s quarrel being addressed in a way that satisfied me... I don’t think I see that many AUs that quite get the responsibility Asgore feels... right.

Yes, I’ve seen several that portray his grief, depression, and how badly he doesn’t want to be in this position well, even if it’s disappointing how not everyone seems to be aware of what you learn about him in a Neutral run where you’ve previously killed Flowey. A lot of people can get aspects of his characterization very well, the broken man, the goofy dad, the intimidating monarch. But I think the reason I don’t see people capture the weight of his responsibility quite as well in fanfics and comics is... well. Oddly enough it’s in the way the monsters treat him.

It’s not just the fandom that has issues with idolizing or demonizing characters. It’s also the Kingdom of Monsters themselves--and they all idolize Asgore. Yes, he’s a very grounded and compassionate individual who invites his subjects to share all their problems with him, and who Papyrus insists will just let you pass through the Barrier. But he’s also a bit of the subject of a cult of personality for his subjects. When they say he’ll absorb seven souls and become a GOD, it’s not an expression of his arrogance, but rather their own adoration. While out-of-universe the Angel is generally agreed to be either Asriel or Chara(or us), in-universe I wouldn’t be surprised if Asgore was considered the Angel.

It’s not long now. King Asgore will let us go. King Asgore will give us hope. King Asgore will save us all.

Yes, individual monsters may want to collect a human soul for their own individual wants and desires. But it’s only the capture of a human soul, or using a single soul for their own benefit, that they really aspire to. (With the exception of Toriel, who wants no souls, and Flowey, who is Flowey.) Of those area bosses who earnestly try to take just one soul, Papyrus and Undyne both want to hand you over to Asgore, and Mettaton wants to protect humanity FROM Asgore. Literally everyone in the Underground seems to fully believe that Asgore will be the one taking all the Souls and fulfilling his promises, and all are content. (Again, barring Toriel, MTT, Flowey.) No one seems to ever doubt he’ll do as he says, even his ex-wife, and no one’s greedy to take the power for themselves or take the burden of being a savior for themself, except his kid who has both a God Complex and a Savior Complex.

With Chara, and with Asgore. They take a person and turn them into a representation of something More than any singular person could ever be. And then in the worst route Chara does it again, to themself. Asgore is freedom and salvation and retribution itself, and everyone including the woman who was once married to him agrees and reinforces the role. Chara is the feeling of a number going up, and the fandom agrees and reinforces the role.

And I dunno. There are fics and AUs where Asgore never lost his kids and always remained an affable, friendly guy. There are AUs where Asgore is the main antagonist and an awful villain with few redeeming qualities. There are fics and AUs where Asgore gets to recover in a post-pacifist setting. But I’m not sure any fics or AUs have ever quite captured how everyone else just talks about the guy, for me. Toriel is simply ‘intimidating’. But Asgore is a GOD.

[howlsofbloodhounds]

[experiment] : {1/2}

(I will refer to the Undertale versions by their names—Doctor Gaster, Sans, Papyrus, Undyne—and the Othertale versions by their nicknames. Shade, Color, Ivory, Sage.

Part 2 linked in the numbers.)

So this animation short is set in the past of Undertale, before Gaster and eventually Sans fall into the Core/Void and are forgotten.

Little Undyne is here because she is getting her blind eye checked by Doctor Gaster. It appears she really hates these check ups.

When Gaster asks her if it hurts, she rather grumpily says that it doesn’t—of course, this is still a younger version of Undertale Undyne, so she is attempting to hide her pain. Perhaps to appear strong and tough.

Doctor Gaster notices this immediately and is both unimpressed and frustrated—he shows a tendency to press on and push up his glasses when he is frustrated. He informs the girl that he needs her to communicate her pain in order to help her properly, and asks again.

Undyne budges just a little this time—saying it doesn’t hurt “that much.” Doctor Gaster asks her if she can see anything in that eye yet, to which the kid shakes her head no—she has monocular vision, just like Sans one day will.

It appears that Doctor Gaster is trying to find a way to restore the girl’s sight in her blind eye. It’s unclear if something injured her eye or if she was born blind, because she has a bandage over the eye for the rest of the short.

(Look at how cute!)

Unlike the full braid Ivory will eventually gain, this baby version of Undyne only has little pigtails.

Here we see Sans with a babybones Papyrus.

This tells us a few things. One, that Color/Sans and Gaster/Shade used to be coworkers in the lab before everything happened.

Two, that it appears Sans was Papyrus’ only caretaker; as he has to bring the baby into work with him, in a dangerous lab, rather than leave him at home with a caretaker or a babysitter.

We can also see that baby Papyrus still has that orange scarf that Sage will eventually still have—even when kid Sage and Ivory meet up again in the Garbage dumps after an event only described as “the explosion,” Sage still has that scarf.

Assuming this was something Sans gave Papyrus, we can also assume that it’s possibly another sign of Sans’ existence in Othertale other than a mysterious sock.

Although how Sage got his scarf if Sans wasn’t there to give it to him is a mystery—did he find it somewhere and take because he was cold living alone on the streets, or did he always have it—he just doesn’t remember how, when, or why? If it’s the latter case—does Sage ever wonder if he had a family or a caretaker.

Does he think they abandoned him?

Back to the actual short, it’s revealed that this is the very first time that Sans, Undyne and Papyrus have ever met.

Cuties.

When Sans makes a pun about “keeping an eye on ya,” Undyne is briefly confused—before she understands the pun, and lets out a soft laugh.

It’s a little dark, but I find it funny how Sans doesn’t wear his casual jacket in the lab but he does wear his lab coat and pink flippers. Hilarious.

(or maybe sans is either very reassured in the safety of the lab. or perhaps he’s being a little too careless.)

Here Sans teaches Undyne about “soul power”—the power of his soul that “allows him to create powerful attacks and call upon dangerous creatures in battle.”

His eye glows after saying this, and Undyne is enraptured. Sans seems to like taking on this teaching role—and perhaps it’s to make Undyne feel better about her eye.

However, we also learn that this power comes at a price. “The more power your soul holds, the weaker your body becomes.” This could definitely explain why Color’s body is so fragile and unstable after absorbing the six souls, and having done it so suddenly, why it busted his skull open.

Undyne and Papyrus being cuties. They’re already behaving like siblings.

When Undyne asks if she will also get these powers, because of her eye, Sans reassures her that she won’t because, “Dr.Gaster won’t make the same mistake with you. He wants to fix your blind eye after all.”

It appears that the reason Sans has his glowing eye in this version of Undertale is because of Dr. Gaster. Sans says it was a mistake on Dr. Gaster’s part, so he doesn’t seem to hold any ill will towards Gaster about it (at least right now), but he also says that Dr. Gaster wants to fix Undyne’s blind eye.

Does that imply that Gaster didn’t want to fix Sans’ eye—if something was wrong with it before—or that Sans thinks he didn’t? If something wasn’t wrong with it before, then why did he give Sans this eye at all—and why did Sans agree?

Either way. I wouldn’t be suprised if Gaster feels some responsibility for Color’s predicament—and such a responsibility in keeping him both alive, and sane. Perhaps he feels he’s the reason Color’s body can’t handle too much of his power without slowly and painfully dying.

(Note that, when nervous or uncomfortable, Sans seems to have a habit of placing a hand on the back of his skull and looking away. Can’t imagine how many times Color tried to do this, only to be starkly and sharply reminded that his skull is fucking busted open.

There are no mirrors in the Void. How did he react the first time he saw his appearance in the mirror? Color Sans with body image issues real?)

The two are conveniently interrupted by Dr. Gaster, who has prepped another experiment, and who ask Undyne if she will be willing to perform this new experiment—to which Undyne happily consents to.

(Dr. Gaster seems to be showing a lot of respect for his patients emotions, boundaries, and time. So either Sans consented to whatever situation led to that eye comment, or there was some miscommunication—and Dr. Gaster has learned from his mistakes.)

There is something in Wing Dings here I cannot translate.

But Dr. Gaster says that nothing is working with Undyne’s eye, and Undyne wakes up from being put under to the sound of Gaster and Sans arguing about it.

Gaster says that he is “sick and tired of all his experiments turning out to be failures.” This could just be referring to Undyne, as it seems the two have been trying to work on fixing her eye for a while now, but it could also potentially involve whatever mistake he did to Sans.

Gaster says he needs space, that he can’t think here—“not with all of you around.” A mirror to what seems to have become of Shade and Color in the Void.

Sans is concerned, calls him “Doc.” He calls out for Gaster to wait, to let him come with him—but Gaster ignores him and leaves, Sans doesn’t follow.

(I am getting a feeling this has happened before. And Sans is worried about leaving Gaster alone.)

Undyne asks where Gaster went, to which Sans shrugs. She says he hopes he comes back soon, that the lab is spooky where he’s not here. So even when grumpy and not wanting to be there, Undyne still finds comfort in Gaster’s presence. A sharp contrast to their interactions in the Void.

Also, Sans sits on chairs weird. Point and laugh. What a queer.

Yay! It worked. (Unfortunately for Undyne, she will lose her sight again in only a few moments.)

[the-great-papyru]

personally, i think the reason flowey still acts like a child after god-knows-how-many years of resets is that each reset brings not just everyone else but also himself back.

so even if it were to take him a year to complete some experiment, the second he reset anything he gained that year would be gone.

scratches, scars, physical things yes. but also maturity, basically anything resembling character growth… he still has memories, but anything meaningful attached to them is gone.

so yes, flowey could age, but only if he allowed himself to move forward. which he obviously doesn’t want to do. moving on and growing up feels like forgetting chara. he doesn’t think he deserves to keep living his life, moving forward without them.

flowey could grow up if he really wanted to. but he is the one holding himself back.

[phanmojac]

I think people forget that what makes Undertale such a good game is the fact that all the characters are flawed. The reverse is also true, the bad characters are also to some extent good. It shows depth in characters that are rare.

Papyrus is kind and merciful, but he’s selfish. He’s all around a good guy, but he shouldn’t have ever tried to kill the human.

Sans is threatening but lazy. A lot of people overlook the fact that both in genocide and pacifist, he’s kind of a bad guy. He’s not the bad guy unless provoked, but he still failed to protect the human. He even failed to give security to the human against Papyrus. But he also doesn’t do this out of malice. He genuinely thinks he’s doing a good job of protecting you.

Alphys is kind for selfish reasons. She’s kind and helps the human, but she does so for her personal gain. She even creates obstacles just so she can feel empowered. She lies to everyone about the amalgamates because she’s to scared to tell the truth. But when given the help she needs, she does change. She is selfless in telling the families about the experiments.

Undyne is a dick for trying to kill the human so many times. But she’s doing it for a good reason. To her, humans are dangerous maniacs. She kills because the monsters she trusts tell her to. She changes her ways when provoked. In genocide, she gives up a peaceful death just to protect her people.

Toriel is irresponsible. She shouldn’t have abandoned us at the beginning in the ruins like that. She’s selfish for trying to keep us in the ruins. She put us in serious danger when she starts fighting us. Even if she didn’t have the intent to kill us, she’s still capable of killing us. But she’s loving to us, and the selfishness comes from the loss of both of her children.

The list goes on, all of the characters, even the side characters, are well rounded. And they all have one flaw in common:

They’re selfish to some extent.

This is a character flaw that all people in real life have. And the fact that all the characters that are within a generally shitty situation are selfish is a great reflection of real life. They live off of be or be killed, just like how Flowey tells us is their truth. But they all are able to change in the end, and it makes them feel more realistic.

[thecluelessdoctor]

ive noticed something.

When sans as a character is written accurately, him in genocide based things is so much more impactful than the thing he was seen as a few years ago.

Like it's not just impactful because it's accurate.It's impactful because he's just... Given up. He's tired. He doesn't care anymore.

Sure, he's sad and a bit pissed about papyrus, but he doesn't try to attack you endless your about to literally, end the world.

It's... So much more sad. He knows he can't do anything, so he doesn't try. It makes him feel even more real, and like a person. Because honestly, if someone you loved was murdered, what would you do?

You can't.. really do anything. And most people won't even TRY to do anything.

It's saddening and so much more impactful than the sans that was popularized by the fandom.

Idk, little thoughts of mine..

[bogos-bint3d]

Ok so there was a post asking about opinions on Undyne and her actions because OP needed it for science and I added a bunch of stuff in the tags but then I was like "oh wait if I write this in the tags nobody's gonna see this and she means basically everything to me so actually I really feel the need for everyone to see this" so here it is as it's own post

First reblog (I needed a second one because I ran out of space)

Second reblog

Sorry I just really felt like I needed to have the things I feel about her have its own post because all of this literally means everything to me I had to make sure it had a place to be kept. As you can see I have a lot of feelings. About. Like. Everything. So yeah

Thing is I seriously could've written so much more but it was late and I just couldn't. I might later though. Because seriously. There is so much more I think about her and it cannot be contained. But whatever, here's what I have for now, later

[damiel-of-real]

was thinking last night about how toriel, asgore and asriel are super stuck to the past while the two main human characters are related to the future ("You are the future of humans and monsters"/"You are our future!") and then i started thinking. is papyrus legit the only main (monster) character who isn't tied down by their past at all??

like it feels like every other character has SOMETHING in the past that ties them down. alphys has the amalgamates, sans talks about wanting to "go back", and flowey wants to be happy with his best friend again. papyrus just doesnt really have anything like this. he's always aspiring towards a goal for the future rather than reminiscing on something from the past. this (among a bunch of other things) makes him really stand out from the rest of the cast

idk. is this anything

[ultimateempath]

Okay so it might've been done for some other arbitrary reason and I'm just really overthinking it, but I think the fact the skeleton brothers are the only main Undertale characters that are never mentioned in some way in Undertale Yellow is actually super neat attention to detail! (Continued under the cut)

In Undertale Yellow, pretty much every single other Undertale main character is mentioned or eluded to in some way. Toriel and Asgore both get actual roles, Flowey is our guide and save point, Alphys is mentioned more than once and also shows up in a cutscene, a guy at the saloon goes on a whole rant about Mettaton, Undyne is mentioned a couple times and her spear attack is briefly seen during the neutral route, and even Muffets spider bake sale returns!

Sans and Papyrus are the only two who never get brought up, and the reason why is actually stated in Undertale. According to the bunny shopkeeper in Snowdin town, the skelebros 'just showed up one day and...asserted themselves'. They're never eluded to in Undertale Yellow because they hadn't shown up yet. No one had anything to say about them because they weren't known during that time; for all intents and purposes, they didn't exist yet. I think it's a super neat little detail!

The last thing I wanna mention is that one of the fun value events in Undertale Yellow actively acknowledges the existence of said fun value events, vaguely mentioning changes in geography and mysterious doors appearing in what sounds to me like a nod to the Undertale fun value event of the extra hallway & mysteryman/gaster(?) door in waterfall (though it's equally likely to be just a reference to room changing fun events in general, like the goner kid for example). Not necessarily anything to do with the enigmas that are Sans and Papyrus, but still an interesting little thing to keep in mind for all you theory makers and fanwork creators out there.

[tramon81]

New Papyrus Headcanon.

Papyrus actually suspects that Undyne's cooking lessons are a way to keep him out of the guard, but he chooses to play the fool here cause he is completely terrified that calling Undyne out on it will end their friendship. Furthermore, it is this exact reason, to prove Undyne wrong that he is unfit to be guard (dunno if he knows the specifics on why she doesn't let him) that he so often talks about impressing Undyne and that after doing so she will nigh instantly let him in the guard.