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howlsofbloodhounds · 2 days ago

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we need to talk more about Killer and Papyrus relationship and Killer wants.

So when he tells Color what he truly wants he mentions wanting his brother back first, then his friends, then his old life, and then about being "Sans" again. I just want to know why is it that Killer is never written as going back to his timelime the life he wants so badly.

I find it interesting that most drawing or comics with Killer and Papyrus. Killer is either turned slightly or the comic breaks stop before his soul. You rarely see his soul when he interacts with Papyrus and I can't help bit wonder if that's because of Stage 1 and Stage 2 and being unsure of which stage he would be on during those moments.

Almost anytime he is shown with Papyrus it shows us how much he cares about him. The comic where he kills him is a bit of an outlier he seems to release all his pent up frustrations and feeling like its something he must do or he wants to do but the moment he does so he breaks down even vomits. He doesn't like Chara wearing his scarf no matter how many times he's killed. Sees his brother in every Papyrus he meets. Often seems to make him unstable like with the comic on stage 4 and during the fight with swap Papyrus he even cries. Drawings always show him pushing Papyrus away or just turned away with a sad face. He considers Papyrus his best friend even in Stage 2. When, he left Papyrus it seemed he had tears in his eyes, his hands were shaking as they went to wrap around Papyrus and return the hug before suddenly deciding to push him away instead and run away. The Killer captured by Nightmare reset just so his brother could have a happy ending then was going to erase himself either because he doesn't think he matters which he does think Papyrus doesn't need him anymore or because he just doesn't trust himself or because he knows Papyrus wouldn't be happy in a world where Sans just died no he had to delete himself so Papyrus wouldn't have to mourn someone whose never coming back. Its just so akdjaoykdhf. Let him see his brothers, his friends the world he knew. He doesn't even seem to like other au's. Why must he always live in the omega timeline if he's rescued or in Nightmare castle if they make him good can't he have his world and his brother for once. He cares about Papyrus the most, Alphys the second best I would say and probably Grillby third. Toriel somewhere between Alphys and Grillby wether at the front, the middle or back. I say Alphys because she's in two comics. When he pushes everyone away to protect himself its Alphys and Papyrus. She's the only one he even took a moment to really talk to with Grillby and Papyrus it was to vent his frustration and just kill them almost immediately while with Alphys he had a bit of a breakdown then killed her.

Why does no one focus on the people in his world, the relations he had there. Like we get so many hints and people just brush them away and only want Killer to ever be happy with the Bad Sanses or with Color in the Omega Timeline why can't he be happy with his old friends and family one of the only things he admitted to even wanting. Sorry for the rant.

~Musical Anon

Because he refuses to actually go back. Notice how in the comics with Nightmare and the cats, Killer talks about how he thinks the others are in their own timelines living their lives, Nightmare asks him why he isn’t back home at his, and Killer doesn’t answer?

He can’t go back home, he feels. He wants to, but he can’t. And it’s not just guilt and shame, it’s that profound distrust in himself. So long as his SOUL is the way it is, where anyone can do what Nightmare does and use him for their plans and desires, he believes no one will ever be safe around him.

That they couldn’t even begin to trust him—why do you think he’s so insistent that Color not trust him when he’s in Stage 2–when he’s “like that”—or that Color kill him if he ever goes into Stage 3?

Not to mention how he hides and keeps Stage 4 a secret—and it’s shown very clearly that, when Killer is in Stage 4, he has absolutely no qualms about who or what he kills.

We all saw how brutal and violent Stage 4 can be, and that’s without mentioning Stage 3 being described as “crazy” and the examples we’re shown of Killer being violent towards others while in Stage 2.

He will kill Papyrus if he’s triggered into Stage 4—Stage 4 has done it many times before.

It’s because he loves his brother so much that tries to remove himself from his life—thinking he’s somehow protecting him or keeping him safe by making these choices for Papyrus.

Assuming Papyrus doesn’t need him anymore, wouldn’t want him and shouldn’t trust him—but these are all assumptions he makes without talking to Papyrus even once. I have to wonder if he even actually remembers how to talk to Papyrus anymore.

I think Killer in Stage 1 needs to rebuild that trust in himself and the people around him, including Papyrus, before he’d even begin to feel that he’s anything anyone could trust— let alone love or want.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s hesitant to even touch or hug Color and almost excessively gentle with it, withdrawing quickly and likely has a tendency to keep his hands to himself — given how he couldn’t even bring himself to touch Dream while in Stage 1, even when he couldn’t tell if Dream was even real or not.

All in all—i don’t think immediately running back to Papyrus or his timeline would help Killer at all. Because he’d spend his entire time there living in fear of himself, walking on eggshells, trying to avoid triggers all while dealing with nightmares, dreams, and memories of all the times he’s hurt everyone in the Underground. All the times they’ve hurt him.

And he’d be alone with those memories, that pain and guilt, that shame and confusion. No one else remembers Killer—they remember Sans.

And feeling alone with all of it, the “only one” being hurt, the “only one” who remembers, is what started his resentment and jealousy of Papyrus way back then in the first place.

More than being afraid of killing or hurting anyone again, especially his brother, I do believe Stage 1 would be plagued by the fears that—if he goes back to that place, where it all started—that he’d start believing he wants to kill them again.

If that’s actually true or not doesn’t really matter—because Killer in Stage 1 believes it is, and could potentially remember the beginning of everything.

The anger, the jealousy, betrayal and hurt. But more importantly—the confusion. How none of it really felt real, how his mind didn’t feel under his control, how he thoughts didn’t feel like his. How his emotions didn’t feel like they belonged to him.

He thinks he can only go back to Papyrus if he’s “fixed.” If he’s Sans again. If he’s the same old person he was, as if everything that happened never did.

But what if that’s not possible? What if he can never go back to being that person? Does that mean he cannot have his brother or even his old friends back at all, because they are not his, if he is not Sans?

No, of course not. Because his brother and his old friends are their own people, who can and should be given the chance to make their own informed decisions on if they want him back in their lives or not.

And that’s why I like to think Color definitely encourages Killer to reach how to home, to Papyrus, even if it’s not an in person meeting yet—such as a letter or a phone call. Even if only to just let the poor man know his missing brother is alive, even if not quite okay. Even if not quite the brother he remembers.

Color definitely wouldn’t force Killer into this, but I do think Killer’s opportunity to reach out to his loved ones who remember and want him back is something Color has wanted for himself for what feels like longer than he’s even really been alive.

His family doesn’t know who he even is, and at this point it looks unlikely they ever will. He will always be a stranger to them—he’d never wish that on or want that for his friend, especially if they also want Killer back.

Even if the moment is bittersweet and brings up fears of being abandoned or forgotten again in Color, I think he’d also be both proud of Killer, and happy that he finally managed to help at least one Killer get here. Writing letters to his brother, making puns and laughing with Toriel over the phone, sharing information about soul research with Alphys.

Not every Killer was able to live long enough to experience this for themselves.

Also, a little off topic but it’s something I’ve wanted to talk about for a bit, but I do believe that Papyrus is the only person Killer in Stage 2 has ever felt anything like resembling guilt, regret, or remorse for the pain he’s caused him or for what he did to him.

Of course, it’s described as Killer “feeling sick” when he remembers what he did to Papyrus, so i doubt he recognizes what this emotion is or what it means when in Stage 2.

In contrast, when it comes to Color, I think Killer in Stage 2 feels frustrated or uncomfortable when he recognizes that he’s hurt or caused Color pain, knows he should feel bad about that, but he just doesn’t or can’t.

It’s those exact feelings of frustration and discomfort, as well as the fact that he doesn’t like being the reason why Color is hurt/upset and doesn’t want to hurt Color, that he puts in effort to either make it up to him or to try and figure out what caused the pain in order to try and not do it again.

He doesn’t feel guilty about it, maybe doesn’t even fully understand the extent of Color’s emotions, but he can see that something he did caused Color pain. So he tries to put in the effort to care and make it up to him.

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