#tysha & tyrion

[selkiewife]

THERE ARE WORSE WAYS TO DIE THAN DROWNING. AND IF TRUTH BE TOLD, HE HAD PERISHED LONG AGO, BACK IN KING'S LANDING. IT WAS ONLY HIS REVENANT WHO REMAINED... ~ A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, TYRION V

[ilynpilled]

He remembered the first time with Tysha as well. She did not know how, no more than I did. We kept bumping our noses, but when I touched her tongue with mine she trembled. Tyrion closed his eyes to bring her face to mind, but instead he saw his father, squatting on a privy with his bedrobe hiked up about his waist. “Wherever whores go,” Lord Tywin said, and the crossbow thrummed.

[adoriadreams]

Tysha and Mirri Maz Duur are two characters I feel like the fandom tends to erase the pain of in favor of the POV character (Tyrion and Dany).

Their not really viewed as people but an arc/character development for Dany and Tyrion and the more I think about it the more I hate it.

Tysha was raped and abuse by Tywin, she got no justice, but that's all glossed over in favor of highlighting how unfairly Tywin treats Tyrion and his hatred for his son, and Tyrion's trauma. No doubt the event was traumatic for Tyrion but the way people choose to only focus on Tyrion's trauma while ignoring Tysha is disturbing and disappointing. I have also seen people shipping them and wanting a reunion and for them to marry again but let's not forget Tyrion abused her. He raped her. Yes, Tywin forced him but it still happened and Tysha doesn't deserve to relive that trauma so Tyrion can find peace and redemption.

Mirri was raped, abused and witness the murder and rape of her people but that's all glossed over as well in favor of highlighting Dany coming into power. Beating her first 'Villian' and dealing with her first 'Betrayal'. Mirri did not owe Dany any loyalty because Dany saved her by making Mirri her slave. At the end of the day a slave is still a slave, even if their master is kind. The fact that people villianize Mirri for something they would praise Dany for is telling enough. And the fact that they think Mirri should be ever grateful Dany 'saved' her is disturbing. Also Mirri was still abused even after Dany 'saved' her. The idea that Mirri did something villainous by rebelling( killing Drogo. Still have no proof she actually did it) against her master is the idea that slaves have no right to rebell/desire freedom. The fandom perception around Mirri Maz Duur is disappointing . (Maybe it's the way GRRM wrote it or maybe it's because the fandom is mostly white.)

Justice for Tysha and Mirri Maz Duur.

I rambled alot in this one.

[fromtheseventhhell]

You definitely don’t need to answer if you’d prefer not to, but I love your Asoiaf analysis and was eager to get your take on the Arya/Tyrion/Jon love triangle from the 1993 outline. I’m not sure if this something you’ve already touched on but I was curious what your thoughts on it are, especially at it relates to Tyrion. Often when I’ve seen this aspect of the outline mentioned, many are quick to dismiss/scoff at the very idea of it…which is truly such a shame because if nothing else, it’s certainly a springboard for many interesting discussions. Though I do think George has scrapped the triangle from the story, I’m curious what, if any, impact it’ll have on how he writes the initial meeting/subsequent “friendship” between Arya and Tyrion. Arya has been established as a character who makes friends easily and is not at all judgmental of others based on appearances and I imagine that would be very appealing to Tyrion. Given his recent cynicism, I don’t think they would “hit it off” right away but I can definitely see them developing an admiration for one another. I recently reread the Mercy chapter and was struck by Arya’s mention of how apt she found one of “Tyrion’s” lines from The Bloody Hand.

I'm a "the original outline still has relevance" truther until I'm proven wrong, so I do still think Tyrion and Arya's relationship will have some significance. If nothing else them being two of George's favorite characters is enough for me to believe we'll get some interesting on-page interactions between them. How relevant will their relationship be? That I don't know but I can definitely see them getting along. They'd play off each other very well and I'm personally really looking forward to them meeting. Arya's interaction with Bobono and, like you said, her memorizing "Tyrion's" lines could be a hint toward the dynamic they'll have in the future. Her Mercy chapter also hints at a relationship between her and Daenerys, so we might see that trio interacting sooner than expected. With the love triangle angle being scrapped, it is possible he has some other subplot planned for them. We don't really know enough to speculate so we'll just have to wait and see though.

[gabriestat]

funniest line in all of asoiaf. surely my children will be spared from the cycle of violence ive created 😗

[inwinterhell]

“During all the terrible long years of his childhood, only Jaime had ever shown him the smallest measure of affection or respect, and for that Tyrion was willing to forgive him most anything.”

Aaaaaaaaaaaaah

[daenerys-daario]

@tyrionsource's event: TYRION'S SEASONS OF LOVE ↴

SUMMER:

The summer verses of 'The Seasons of My Love' in Tyrion's chapters reflect his yearning for love, acceptance, and an idyllic youth. Summer is Cersei laughing with him, instead of her laughing at him. Summer is his sister's love, his family's acceptance, and that time when he was in love for the first time with a woman who loved him not because he was a Lannister, but because he was Tyrion. Summer is idle dreams of a little cottage by the sea, that always remains warm by virtue of Tysha's sincere love...

[thehauntingofharrenhouse]

in twow tyrion will be rescued by twin tyroshi sellswords who are suspiciously good at the economy

[satinoflowers]

Hey! What are your thoughts on Satin being a Reach lord’s bastard? I think GRRM kinda left it open for himself, but there’s seeds of being a lord’s son for sure. Or do you have other theories?

Thank you so much for the ask!! <333

Textually theres a decent amount of suggestion to me that satin is a lord's son. He uses the formally educated "my lord" instead of the common "m'lord" when addressing jon, which rly stands out to me as grrm seems to be consistent with this. Satin is a crackshot with a crossbow despite minimal training, and i like the reddit user muflonlesli's point about tyrion's line about "i never thought to feed the fire, that had always been a servant's task" in regards to satin not being as diligent with lighting jon's. That one always stuck with me because as fanficable that that character trait is within satin, in the context of the chapter it does seem a strange bit of coloring to add. Satin is proved diligent, so by pointing out his negligence in that aspect i think grrm is purposefully and specifically hilighting it.

One of my favorite hints to him having the surname flowers (which is an incredible reach and is so so sodelusional of me. I mean seriously take this with a pound of salt) is the line from acok, dany iv where she has the vision with the "sweet-scented blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice"... hear me out, instead of having blue roses be represntative of lyanna, think of them as being a symbol of love within lyanna's line. If r+l=j and satin SPECIFICALLY has a line about the "sweet-scented oil" being registered by jon in the godswood on an icy day,, satin is the sweet smelling blue FLOWER (bastard surname in the reach) and jon is courting him just as rhaegar courted lyanna. And if u think about it. Jon does need a nyssa nyssa so like how far of a reach would it be to say that by comparing jon+rhaegar and their need for a cute person to fulfill a prophecy,, u get sweet smelling satin flowers???🤪🤪🤪

Realistically i dont think theres much of anything to be gained by having him be a lord's bastard, though. It serves as explanation for his mannerisms and character traits for sure (theres also the littlefinger's spy theory but again i dont see the need for him to have one that far from kl and having nothing to do w the current events in his story. Maybe he is a jonsa stan idk) but... the only addition would be to his role within the story on a meta level, if grrm is hinting at a parallel between satinjon and another pairing of characters, which is rife with opportunity for sure.

One more thing to add would be that since empathizing with and aiding those in marginalized groups/ different walks of life from jon's own is so vital within his story (including satin being a prostitute), having satin be a fellow bastard in a much worse position than jon would be a decent addition. Does that set jon up for empathizing with those whose bastard-ry leaves them in positions in which they must make (in jons judgement) immoral choices? In satins case, prostitution, but in aegon vi blackfyre's case? If satin is as important to jons story as i hope he'll be, then a conversation/ philosophic monologue in a jon pov about discrimination being different across class division with those two could be poignant in regards to jons development and future actions.

[spectrum-color]

Challenge for GRRM: have a storyline about a woman being a victim of sexual violence (if you’re gonna use it so heavily) that focuses on her and how she’s impacted instead of using it to develop an adjacent male character

[selkiewife]

“You ask that? You, who killed your mother to come into the world? You are an ill-made, devious, disobedient, spiteful little creature full of envy, lust, and low cunning. Men’s laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine. To teach me humility, the gods have condemned me to watch you waddle about wearing that proud lion that was my father’s sigil and his father’s before him. But neither gods nor men shall ever compel me to let you turn Casterly Rock into your whorehouse.” ~ Tywin Lannister, A Storm of Swords, Tyrion I

A Future Imagining where Tyrion finds Tysha and their descendants proudly rule Casterly Rock. 

[tyrionsource]

TYRION'S SEASONS OF LOVE

We are thrilled to announce that the fourth and final part of TYRION'S SEASONS OF LOVE will take place on March 19th, 2024 (The Spring Equinox.) Prompts: We have been using the song The Seasons of My Love as the prompt for each event. However, the spring verse of the song has not yet been revealed in the book series. Therefore, you are welcome to create your own spring verse, use a fan created version, or choose from the possibilities below: I loved a maid as green as spring, with flowers in her hair Alt: I loved a lad as green as spring, with flowers in his hair Alt: I loved someone as green as spring, with flowers in their hair I loved a maid as sweet as spring with sunrise in her hair Alt: I loved a lad as sweet as spring with sunrise in his hair Alt: I loved someone as sweet as spring with sunrise in their hair All Tyrion ships are welcome! All types of fanworks are welcome! Please tag your posts #tyrionseasons so that your posts can be reblogged here! If you are writing fic, please post to the Tyrion’s Seasons of Love Collection on AO3. For more information on the series of events here is the original post. To check out the fanworks created for Part 1 and Part 2 and Part 3 of Tyrion's Seasons of Love, here is the Winter Masterlist, the Autumn Masterlist and the Summer Masterlist. It has been a JOY hosting this event and we appreciate all of the support and fanworks so far and are so excited to see your creations for Tyrion's Seasons of Love ❦ A Dream of Spring!

[hello-nichya-here]

In your opinion, do some of the more dubious moments in ASOIAF (Rhaegar and Lyanna, Dany and Drogo, Dany and Jorah, Tyrion and Tysha, Cersei and Taena, Theon and Jeyne, Lysa and Petyr) count as rape/assault/grooming?

Let's go through this answer case by case.

Rhaegar and Lyanna

Ah, probably the most controversial "Did she consent to it or not?" in the whole story - and for good reason since we only ever hear about it from other people. However, even taking that into account, there are enough hints in the books to shed some light into that mistery - and honestly, I think it points to BOTH "Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar willingly" and "Rhaegar was asshole who took advantage and ruined her life" being true.

Lyanna didn't want to marry Robert. She objected to it repeatedly, and we hear all the time about how she has the "wolf's blood" - and Ned, the person who was likely the least in the dark about all of this, said that this "wolf's blood" led both his brother and his sister to an early grave, implying that she did go with Rhaegar willingly.

Rhaegar was also seen as handsome, charming, clever, and just basically every woman's dream husband. It is not impossible that Lyanna took a liking to him. Rhaegar would also not be the first Targaryen prince/king to elope with the woman he loved, and Aegon the conqueror became king of Westeros with his TWO wives. He could have easily used those tales about his family to assure Lyanna that things would be fine, that her running away with him wasn't that crazy of an idea and that there wouldn't be tragic consequences.

We also have Jon Snow, who we are 99% sure is her son in the books like he was in the show, constantly discussing "bride stealing/kidnaping" with Ygritte, which is treated not as real kidnaping but essentially as courting, with the woman choosing to elope with him or not. We we even hear the story of Beal the Bard, the king-beyond-the-wall who pretended to be a singer, was allowed to take a flower from Lord Stark's garden - and in the morning, Lord Stark's daughter is gone, but there is a blue winter rose in her place, a flower that is CONSTANTLY associated with Lyanna in the books. Once again, the story is told as love story.

But, while all of that gives us a pretty romantic, happy start to their story, we cannot forget how it ended: Lyanna all alone in a tower, dying while giving birth, seemingly completely in the dark about the fact that Rhaegar's family has been killing hers as no one bothered to explain to the Starks that no, she wasn't kidnapped, she went with him willingly.

And Rhaegar did not elope with her just out of love. He was trying to fullfil a prophecy. He needed a woman to give him another son - the right son - and clearly priotized making sure that child would not be taken by the Starks or anyone else over, ya know, not raging war against Lyanna's family.

The power imbalance between them is also quite great. Rhaegar is an adult, Lyanna is not. Rhaegar is a married man taking a mistress, Lyanna is dishonoring herself by sleeping with him. Rhaegar is the future king, free to go wherever he wants, Lyanna is a noble girl that is far away from her family and locked up in a tower. The further they get from Winterfell, the more Lyanna has to rely solely on Rhaegar - and look where it got her.

So yeah, in all likelyhood it started out as a love story, but ended with Lyanna losing all agency, her family, and even her life - things Rhaegar could have at least tried to prevent, yet we get no indication that he did.

Dany and Drogo

Just their first time is already one hell of a controversial topic. Daenerys is 13, she's terrified, she just wants to go home and be a kid. She is also being courted by Drogo and they do share some nice moments during their wedding. Then it's time for the wedding night, and Daenerys is once again cowering in fear and in fact tries to cover her body up, but Drogo won't let her. However he also tries to be reassuring, gentle AND asks her permission to go all the way, and she accepts. Dany goes to non-consenting to as consenting as someone in her position can be, and then back, A LOT. It's mixed-bag.

But let's not forget what Drogo does when Dany is clearly NOT consenting, and is in fact hurt, crying, terrified, and freaking suicidal. He takes what he wants anyway. She's his wife, so he is usually kinder to her than he would ever even consider being to any of the random women he raped, but he does still view her as property. If she's being all sweet and willing, great! If she's not, then she's gonna have to endure because the decision of when they do and do not have sex is his to make. In his mind, he probably thinks "I was nice to her the first time and she agreeded to it - that means she's ALWAYS up for it" because if the idea of marital rape is already something the people in that universe can't grasp, the idea that a wife consenting to sex with her husband once doesn't mean she has consented for EVERYTIME might as well be just a bunch of nonsensical words to them.

Now, Dany does take some more control later on. She becomes as equal to Drogo in the relationship as she could possibly ever be (again, considering her age and Drogo's mentality), and the two of them end up genuinely falling in love, and sex with him becomes something Dany quite likes instead of just more suffering. But retroactive consent doesn't exist.

Lets say that Dany was an adult who married Drogo willingly, they got along right away, and for months all the sex between them was consensual. Then one night she turns him down and he doesn't take no for an answer. The one non-consensual time doesn't magically make all the previous times they had sex sudddenly become rape, nor does the fact that it all started out consensual change the fact that he did rape her that one night.

Drogo raped Daenerys. The feelings they would develop for each other later on and all the times she did consent don't change that fact.

Dany and Jorah

A way more mild exemple compared to the previous one, but still worth discussing.

In the third book, Jorah kisses Dany, and that kiss is the thing that sort of re-awakens her sexuality, which had been dormant since her husband died AND since she was in a lot of pain due to the truly agonizing birth of her child, that had already been dead, but also wasn't, but kind of was. Anyways, Dany kind of liked the kiss - even though it's very clear she wishes it had not been with Jorah, but rather with someone younger (her lovers are all men, as in fully grown adults, but they're not thrice her age like him).

However, let's look a the actual scene.

Dany is changing her clothes in a hurry, not thinking much about the fact that Jorah is there (she did walk around with one breast out nearly all the time after all, and he did not do anything other than look). This time though, he surprises her and pulls her for a kiss, and while Dany doesn't really struggle, she does think to herself "I'm his queen, not his woman."

She tells him he shouldn't have done it, he replies that he shouldn't have waited that long. He keeps on staring at her naked chest, and she covers up. She says it wasn't right and that she is his queen - a very clear "Don't do anything I didn't give you permission to do" - he calls her the most brave and beautiful woman he has ever seen and calls her by her name, leading to her very sternly reminding him to call her "Your grace." Jorah agrees... and then goes on to talk about how no man would ever be as faithful to her as him, and it's very clear he isn't saying that just because he is her loyal knight, but rather to once again declare his romantic attraction to her.

Daenerys is being VERY clear and rejecting him. But every word she says goes in one ear and out the other because Jorah doesn't want to listen to what she has to say. He did not kiss her again (as full on forcing himself on her out be VERY out of character for him), but his complete disregard for her repeated verbal objections to his attempt of making her think of him as a potential lover are not great.

And it makes perfect sence considering WHY he is so "in love." While he genuinely connects with Dany, the attraction comes from the fact that she looks just like his second wife, the one who loved and who abandoned him to be part of a rich man's harem.

Whenever Jorah acts on his feelings for "Dany", Daenerys is, ironically, the last thing on his mind. He is thinking of his desires, his pain, his feelings. The girl in front of him be damned - she's just an object of lust/affection, despite her clear discomfort.

Tyrion and Tysha

This one is rather easy. It 100% is rape - however, Tysha AND Tyrion are being victimized, because the real abuser, the one holding all the power, is Tywin.

The whole "give her to the guards" thing was HIS idea, and Tyrion, who was just 13-years-old, says he was FORCED to watch, and then to rape her as well, and it's clear the event messed with his head. WE feel sorry for Tysha and think of how horrible that must have been for her, but Tywin's intention was to hurt TYRION, and she was just a way to do it, not a person.

Tysha went through hell on that moment, but so did Tyrion - and that was by design.

Cersei and Taena

The argument for this one is even simpler: Cersei's intention was to assault Taena, therefore this one should be treated, at the very least, as attempted rape, if not full on rape.

She had been thinking of all the times Robert raped her before she decided to assault Taena, deliberately hurt her and blamed it on the wine before saying she'd have what she'd want anyways because she's the queen - almost word for word what Robert used to say to her. And during the act, Cersei is fantasizing about torturing Taena to death.

"Oh, but she was aroused, seemed to enjoy it, and even offered to fuck Cersei too!"

1 - Cersei explicitly mentioned said to her "I'm the queen, you don't get to say no to me." The message was very clear that even if Taena didn't want it, she'd have no choice but to play along.

2 - Taena ALWAYS knows what to say to make Cersei happy anyways. She made up the whole bullshit story of "Loras is totally in love with his sister and joined the king's guard to be near her" because she knew it was Cersei's love story with Jaime and thus she'd be super biased to believe it. OF COURSE she'd play along to anything Cersei did.

3 - Arousal and orgasm are involuntary. It's just the body reacting to what is being done to it. It is NOT the same as consent.

4 - Even if we assume Taena was attracted to Cersei, wanted to have sex with her, and truly enjoyed herself that night, once again, Cersei's INTENTION was rape. Imagine that Cersei serves her food that was supposed to be poisoned, but for whatever reason it ended up not killing her, and intead Taena only had a lovely dinner - it's still attempted murder, even if Taena never realized it.

Cersei wanted to make Taena her victim. End of story.

Theon and Jeyne

Once again, this one is very simple. When Theon "warms up" Ramsay's wife for him, he is doing it under the direct of threat of "If you don't do as I say, I'll torture you until you beg for death, then torture you some more." It's like when Jeyne says she'll do anything Ramsay wants her to, with anyone he desires, including the dogs, and adds a "He doesn't have to cut my foot" at the end.

Both of them are Ramsay's victims. Theon was terrified as Jeyne. It absolutely was rape, but the rapist was Ramsay.

Lysa and Petyr

When Lysa went to Petyr's bed to sleep with him, he had been so drunk, that he mistook her for Catelyn. The second time they sleep together, hehad just gotten beaten so badly by Brandon (Cat's would-be-husband) that Catelyn had to BEG for his life. Naturally, with someone in that poor condition, he was given plenty of things to help with the pain - and as the books have stablished all the time, these lead to very weird dreams and leave the person way out of it.

This throws any consent Petyr could have given in both nights out the window, because even if Lysa asked his permission before doing anything, he was barely even understanding what was going on around him. If consent was impossible, it was rape by default.

Now, we know that Petyr will not only brag about these two night, but also go on to sleep with Lysa many more times and even become her husband eventually. But let's not forget the context here.

1 - Like I explained in the Daenerys and Drogo bit, retroactive consent doesn't exist. It doesn't matter how many times he had consensual sex with Lysa, it does not magically erase the fact that that first two times were rape.

2 - The idea of a man being raped by a woman is just not something the society of Westeros thinks is possible, so naturally Petyr would NEVER understand that what Lysa did to him was assault. At most he'd be bitter that "slept with the wrong sister"

3 - Petyr is very clearly lying to himself about A LOT of things. He convinced himself Catelyn loved him, that he slept with both Tully sisters, that Sansa is BOTH the daughter he and Catelyn never had AND Catelyn 2.0.. Him being in denial about potentially feeling abused, or at the very least angry that he was "tricked", because the story of "Everyone tried to humiliate me but I just ended up fucking my crush AND her sister" makes him feel better about a event that was deeply traumatic to him in a ton of different ways.

[laurellerual]

Do you believe in the theory that the Sailor's Wife is Tysha? I just came across your art of the courtesans and I wondered

I'm not 100% sold, but it's an intriguing theory imo. It is no coincidence that I drew the Sailor's Wife with Tysha's features:

Long dark hair and blue eyes you could drown in (ACOK - Tyrion III).

[daenerysoftarth]

Something I think is forgotten even amongst book readers is the fact that Elia Martell was said to be possibly one of the only people to coo over and cuddle baby Tyrion

Whilst the rest of the world looked at him as a deformity and a curse, she saw past the extreme ableism of their world to a sweet baby and treated him with an affection that Tyrion seldom experienced during his life

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

It's time for the fandom to recognise that Tyrion was also a victim of sexual abuse by Tywin. This doesn't take anything away from Tysha's horrific situation, she's still a victim.

It just makes Tywin an even shittier person( if this is possible) because not only ordered the gang r*pe of a young girl but also made his son witness and participate in order to teach him how to be " a proper Lannister man".