#tsams theory

[llamaisllama777]

TSAMS THEORY: THEY'RE ALL THE SAME//TIMELOOP THEORY!

Okay, you read the title. This is probably the CRAZIEST theory I've come up with up, but please let me explain.

Okay, so in this episode of The Sun and Moon show

Dark Sun visits Foxy and is trying to help him solve his F.c. problem. This was when F.C. got that red box in his chest that absorbs negative star power, and Foxy had no idea what to do, and "Sun" shows up to offer him some support and help... ya, that's not Sun, as you can probably imagine it's Dark Sun. Dark Sun, if I remember correctly, is basically telling Foxy to get rid of the kid cause he's too dangerous, and off course, Foxy tells him no. Dark Sun make some interesting comments that got me thinking. Dark Sun kept asking hypothetical questions like: If you could go back in time and redo everything the exact same way... would you?

Kept asking time related hypotheticals, and even after 7 months, my mind does wander back to this episode and what Dark Sun said.

Someone in the comments of this video asked "Wait is Dark Sun implying they're all stuck in a timeloop and only he knows?" And that BLEW MY MIND!

It does explain a lot of things about Dark Sun

How he seems to know how everything is gonna play out

How confident he is

How smart he is

It's cause he's been through ALL this before.

He's seen it all before

He's experienced it all before

And he's learned from it all.

There is a VERY popular fan theory that Dark Sun is actually OUR Sun just from the future!

I do think that theory is true... but allow me to add to it.

DARK SUN IS SUN FROM A PREVIOUS TIMELINE

The theory is that every time THIS world ends, it gets reset (Kinda like Undertale), and everything happens all over again, maybe with one or two small differences, so it's not an exact copy but a close enough one. Dark Sun was a Sun who we know snapped and fought back against his Moon, killed him, and stole his intelligence... is what I would say if that was true. It was later revealed that Dark Sun lied about killing his Moon. We see his Moon barely alive in a cell where Ruin then puts him out of his misery. Ruin calls Dark Sun out on his lies, and Dark Sun just kinda brushes it off. He lied! He lied about killing his Moon! So, if he didn't get his intelligence, then where'd he get it? Dark Sun didn't steal it he gained it through experience. Dark Sun somehow found out he and his WHOLE WORLD IS TRAPPED IN A TIMELOOP! He probably freaked out about that for a while till he began to wonder if he could change the future, change his fate. So, he does. He becomes Dark Sun after many attempts and many timeloops and finally breaks free from the loop, but he realizes he's free, but the loop isn't over. It's still going. Just now, he's a watcher. He's on the outside looking in. He watches the loops play out over and over and over again, and it just keeps getting WORSE! Moon is still being an abusive butt to Sun, Sun still barely has anyone to support him, and they are still constantly messed with by people like Eclipse, BloodMoon, The Creator, The Astrals. It NEVER ends! Oh, sure, sometimes the loop is merciful. Maybe it gives Sun a new sibling to care for him or a new friend or heck, maybe even a kid... but it's still the same shtick! Sun even dies in some terrible ways in some of these loops! Or the siblings turn rouge and become evil. Dark Sun decided enough was enough and decided to try and break the loop once and for all, but in order to do so, he needs to intervene. He needs to start making things go his way. Pushing Nexus further to the dark side, putting things into place so Sun will lose his support system, and make it so the next few loops will have the Suns coming up on top. Basically, altering the timeloops so Sun doesn't die in 95% percent of them and instead Moon dies. (What's been happening in the show currently) Dark Sun is trying to make our Sun like him cause he believes he can't break the loop, so if you can't break it... change it. He's trying to turn Sun into another him because Dark Sun thinks becoming like him is the only way to break the loop. He's trying to make all Suns like him cause he believes he can help them.

So, that's Dark Sun's part of this.... how does Emperor Lunar and President Earth come into play?

Well, if the timeloop theory is correct, then you see what I'm saying, right? President Earth and Emperor Lunar ARE our Lunar and Earth! Just from different timelines. They're like Dark Sun sort of. They know about the loops but aren't really doing anything to intervene. Maybe they are, and we just aren't seeing it? Who knows?

Now, you might be saying Llama, Emperor Lunar, President Earth, and Dark Sun are from another dimension... not timeline... well... do we know that for sure? I mean, they say it's other universes.... but... dimensional travel is a tricky thing. Who's to say Moon when he built the portal didn't accidentally poke a hole through? Plus, other dimensions and alternate timelines are a term that's pretty interchangeable. So, what we think is an alternate dimension is actually a alternate timeline, part of a the loop.

Basically, what I'm saying is that Moon's portal is actually going in a giant circle poking through the past timelines and wrapping back around to ours and poking through ours to future ones.

Tl;DR The whole show is stuck in a timeloop, and Dark Sun, Evil Earth, and Evil Lunar are OUR Sun, Lunar, and Earth just from a previous loop and Dark Sun is trying to save all other Suns by messing with the timelines so they'll become like him and break free from the loop.

Does this theory have a lot of holes... yes. But gosh dang! Wouldn't that be something! Plus, I can see something like this happening in the show.

But hey that's just a theory...

A TSAMS THEORY!

Thanks for reading!

[sabrondabrainrot]

Time for another Theory Boys! I wanted to post stuff on my Bday but I got busy so I'll do my birthday stuff later. I have to get this theory off my chest before I forget about it or worse someone else comes up with it before I have a chance to send it.

This theory will include spoilers from the most recent eps, "Moon's NIGHTMARE encounter while hunting for Dark Sun", "Sun, Solar, and Moon FACE THEIR CONSEQUENCES...", and "Sun is forced to make A DEADLY CHOICE". So I'm putting this below a spoiler bar. I will also be going into MASM spoiler territory, "Sun begins his VILLAIN ARC with Eclipse". Will also be mentioning LAES "Dark Star HUNTING in VRchat". Just a little disclaimer my theories and stuff are just my own observations and me putting together my thoughts and ideas so they usually aren't super accurate to what is really happening buy I do find a lot of enjoyment doing this. That said, on with the brainrot!

So this Theory starts at the ep, "Sun is forced to make A DEADLY CHOICE", in this episode Sun has to make a heartbreaking decision to kill Nexus and defend his current family or let Nexus kill Moon so he can maybe try to still save Nexus. The entire episode is punctuated by Dark Sun doing an ultimatum with Sun. He freezes time and pulls Sun away to the purgatory dimension. Something interesting I want to point out, this is the CANON purgatory place in TSAMS and the multiverse. Vegeta was sent there on request and met several deceased characters. That place symbolizes people who couldn't make decisions in life and are now stuck in the past, unable to move on even in the afterlife. The only person in purgatory that doesn't belong is Solar Flare and with his case he became a guardian that help guide people when they're not suppose to be there. Back to the encounter, Dark Sun pulls Sun to this place in a very trippy sequence where he presents Sun's choice in a very black and white manner. "It's going to be you one way or another." Dark Sun says in response to Sun's stuttering mess of a reply, he proceeds to follow up with "Inaction is still a choice" Sun of course, is opposed to this but Sun adds interesting lines, "Regardless of this, I win." "You let Nexus kill Moon and I'll get that data and I'll expunge it everywhere" "You kill Moon and I'll collect that data and expunge it everywhere." So at the end of the day he needs some kind of decided code where someone willingly chooses/wants to kill Moon. He also said, Nexus is Moon. So killing Nexus coding wise is the same as killing Moon.

Once Sun caves and makes the decision to finally kill Nexus, Sun, while in tears, asks D!Sun "Who are you really?" In this soft, tiny voice. And D! Sun replies, "I'm Sun, I'm every Sun you've ever met. That you ever will meet. That you've never met and never will meet. I'm You, I'm Me. I'm Sun. Goodbye, Sun. I hope we never meet again, I hope you have a good life too." Then he vanishes from the purgatory place right in front of Sun.

Then the episode ends with Sun finally putting a stop to Nexus. Something very important I notice and that's a theme in TSAMS is identity. Identity is a huge role in everything and usually, when someone is affirmed and very solid in who they are, then it's usually not the case. Earth believed she was the Creator's beloved daughter. Sun believed he was nothing more then the idiot to Moon's genius. Moon believes himself to be an irredeemable monster. Most importantly, Eclipse believes himself to be Moon. If D!Sun says he's a Sun....I just don't really know at this point? When he summoned Sun and paused time he took him to the purgatory afterlife. The thing about that is, Sun never physically left the strange star-powerless dimension pocket D!Sun owns. So one can assume it was Sun's mind or Soul that was drawn there for the conversation. So then I ask, why was D!Sun using the Eclipse v1 mode? The Sun glow model has always been associated with Eclipse v1. I know that in recent eps it's been used to tell Sun's apart however, in the purgatory place would they really need to be physically distinguished? We the audience know who is who. So, in the place where it's their souls, why was D!Sun's Soul physically different from Sun's? Coincidence? Visual distinction? I think this is possibly a case of an Eclipse thinking he's a Sun. I WANT for Dark Sun to be a Sun, I think it's just chilling and haunting. The two most OP villains in the entire franchise happen to both be offshoots of Sun? Ruin is arguably far more Sun then Moon and of course Dark Sun has caused the most problems behind the scenes. But I do think it's interesting how he put it, how can he truly be EVERY Sun if he needed OUR Sun's decision to kill Moon? He could just use his own hatred for Moon. Or just use Nexus, why even make/give Sun the chance to grow and defend himself?

Remember back when we found out it's canon Moon bullies Sun's in all dimensions to get them to 'grow spines' and in a way, Eclipse' also treat Sun's poorly in the hopes Sun gets tougher?

We for canon know of 4 variants of Eclipses, the 4th being the rarest in the multiverse. The first Eclipse variant is the one we first meet, the Eclipse born from Sun and Moon's split. Moon leaves a killcode string in Sun which eventually grows into Eclipse. Eclipse in this version identifies as Moon.

The second variant Eclipse is 'ruin Eclipse' or the eclipse that resembles the games. Born from the two Sun and Moon AIs being fused. We've seen this version in PuppetMaster's dimension and of course with Ruin. He doesn't see himself as Sun or Moon, but as an entirely new existence. The third variant is unique to MASM. He's the original DCA model for the world but was turned off for bad coding and a far too violent nature. He's kind of like a cartoon villain and just wants revenge on everyone.

Then there's the 4th variant, Solar Eclipse. He's the first Eclipse but instead bonded with his Sun and changed for the better. He wasn't isolated and was given Sun's unconditional love. He does identify as Moon at first too but chose to let go of his false identity and hatred because he got the thing he wanted, even if he lost it far too early in his existence. So back to D!Sun...I propose what if he's a variant of Solar Eclipse? It was stated Solar is so unique he's the only inherently good Eclipse in the multiverse...but how can that be true? How can there really only be one Solar, especially when Cringe dimension (our dimension's parallel) also has their own Solar? I think there's a type of Eclipse we haven't seen yet. The Eclipse that identifies themself as a Sun.

I'm also excited to see where D!Sun's story goes because he also mentioned he was changing skin soon. It'll be interesting if they ever find him again. So moving past this, more speculation.

In today's most recent ep, "Moon's NIGHTMARE encounter while hunting for Dark Sun", he stumbled upon a dimension with a 'discrepancy' and when visiting the discrepancy he was greeted to a new Sun beating a lifeless Moon's corpse into powder. This Sun was a crying sobbing mess but would not stop almost like he was possessed. He even started trying to attack our Moon. What's interesting about his 'discrepancy' Sun is he seemed to have a nightcap and had sparkling rays. I can't tell if this is a simple different dimensional appearance or maybe the code D!Sun scattered affected that sun's appearance? However, it's interesting that Sun being violent to Moon is considered a dimensional discrepancy. Moon ended the episode by walking off with Solar to get a sandwich while his new AI runs a dimensional scan for Sun on Moon violence and it ends by it saying "35% of discrepancy's found." This means we're now encountering an EVEN BIGGER effect then what Ruin did when he deleted entire dimensions to kill the creator counsel. Not really sure how the code Dark Sun is spreading works, but it's clear it's making every Sun hate their Moon's now. We don't get the context on why Sun hated his Moon and felt the need to protect himself, because at the end of the day that sparkling nightcap wearing Sun still had a reason to act. He told out Moon, "He was going to kill me, he was going to replace me" and Moon looked closer to determine that this new unknown Sun wasn't possessed by a killcode or anything similar.

D!Sun has seemingly broadcasted into the multiverse the ability for Sun's to now stand up for themselves. They will now choose murder if it means to protect them.

We know when Dark Sun told Sun "All Sun's die eventually to their Moon." He meant it, however, just because D!Sun was being honest doesn't mean that's the truth. He might truly believe all Moons are evil and destined to kill their Sun's however we've seen plenty of dimensions where Sun and Moon peacefully exist. So D!Sun is now just turning every Sun slowly with time into murders. He wanted revenge on Moon and is now using every Sun as the weapon to do it. I'm really interested to see how this will affect the story going forward. Now I would also like to bring up Moon and Sun Minecraft lore, in the most recent lore episode, "Sun begins his VILLAIN ARC with Eclipse", the entire episode centers around Sun finally quitting because the abuse of all his coworkers is too much. He finally quit and ran into Eclipse and had to prove how evil he is so he kidnapped Bonnie only for the entire thing to flop in a Phineas and Ferb reference. (It was funny ngl) The ending was interesting to me though. Moon found Sun on the roof of Evil Inc. and apologized to Sun, a really shitty apology I will add, and Sun didn't accept it.

Sun is continuing to stand up for himself. We've seen before in TSAMS and other dimensions Sun will accept an apology no matter how unbelievable it is. The only ones so far to truly stand up for themselves now is MASM Sun and EAPS Sun (which EAPS Sun still doesn't really stand up for himself)

I'm curious to see how this code works because it seems like D!Sun harnessed it from Sun's very soul. I know Sun on record has said he doesn't believe he has a soul but it's been dis-proven because you need a soul to use magic. The Devil from the Bible even stated they do in fact have souls he plans to one day collect.

We also know now that the Cringe dimensions' Moon now identifies as Nexus so he might escape a fate of that Sun killing him? I think Cringe Sun actually knows far more then he will ever let on. I think he knows more about Sun's magic in general. He didn't want to teach EAPS Sun despite knowing how.

EAPS Sun might be the only Sun so far to be actually interested in learning magic but when he describes what he wants to do it mostly sounds like stage magic? He mentions he just wants ✨sparkles✨

I think we'll need to keep our eyes peeled because I think now every Sun will be affected by what Dark Sun is spreading and slowly turn more violent towards Moon's as time goes on.

Anyways!

I will add more, so another theory I have is Nexus is not dead. Dark Sun himself promised to Nexus he'd help him become a god and recently there was a deal he made where Nexus has to do whatever he wants and says. Plus, part of D!Sun's plan was to have Nexus fight Taurus to gain a new level of power. Nexus' evolved in his NSP use thanks to that confrontation. Up until then, D!Sun wasn't ever actively interfering or encouraging Nexus with his NSP use. He only once came in to mention maybe he should purge the excess NSP or it would kill him. After his failed kidnapping attempt of Sun, he was more active in his plans and how he directed Nexus. Then we see Nexus getting stronger from this direction. Next thing we know is Nexus kidnaps Moon and now we have the ultimatum which was exactly what D!Sun wanted. Either way, he wins, right? Nexus either becomes a god by listening to D!Sun's plan or by using Sun as an AI chip to hunt down shards. Something really important in my own guess/theory that Nexus is we still saw his corpse when Solar, Sun, and Moon walked past him in the flashback during the ep, "Sun, Solar, and Moon FACE THEIR CONSEQUENCES...", He wasn't totally gone. Dark Sun can easily revive Nexus but here's what I think is really going on. In the recent LAES ep "Dark Star HUNTING in VRchat" Gemini dropped some really important information. NSP will eventually turn into SP. Whenever SP and NSP interact it creates life. Sun as we know, has SP and I theorize that Sun killed Nexus by mixing his magic and SP. After all, the way Nexus was acting as he was dying was interesting...He sounded like he was...melting? I don't know how to describe it. Sun's magic as we know is unique. It's altered reality and changed lifeforms. Those magic plants Solar, Moon, and Monty were dealing with were due to Sun's magic. @goodolddumbbanana pointed out to me that Sun's magic was the cause of those plants. They also pointed out to me when I was asking about what D!Sun was doing in Sun's home and touching all of Sun's things they theorized that D!Sun was harvesting Sun's magic. (I'm gonna make an actual theory post about this later too with Banana, stay tuned ;) )

So back to NSP and SP. Nexus is similar to Lunar in terms of narrative. He feels he was used and left the one using him for a better place. Eventually, the one he felt that used him the most killed him in a fiery explosion with only a little bit left behind.

In a lot of stories, especially ones where someone goes from mortal to an immortal-godlike being they usually need to die. There's power in the act of rebirth. Nexus' and Lunar's stories resemble that of the phoenix.

Rebirth through flames to achieve and almost immortal existence.

So this isn't me grasping at straws I truly think Nexus will come back and be a being similar to Lunar. I think Dark Sun is going to rebuild him amongst the stars to have his own personal Astral for future use.

So those are my current most theories! I hope you all liked my yapping. Please let me know what you all thought about :>

[annakenziesworld]

Does Lunar dissociate to forget Eclipse's abuse to cope?

Lunar: Eclipse only hit me once he never really hurt me

Fandom: Eclipse only hurt him once

The once: (roughly all the scenes I can find)

I also made this cause a while ago in TSBS server I got into a sorta? Kinda? Argument of someone disagreeing and basically saying 'Lunar wouldn't lie' and ect. And I was salty so I made this post.

[skeinvelity]

TSAMS THEORY AHEAD!!!

Person in the photos: @sass-ruby :3

[wiltedp1nkrose]

so um does anyone else think that’s nexus’s whole villain/insane arc could be a manic episode?🌌🎀

[eddwardharrison]

THE TSAMS COMMUNITY HAS BEEN MISLEAD. ECLIPSE IS NOT A CLONE.

TSAMS RANT / NO HATE / ALL LOVE

[ALL OF THE INFO HERE ARE BASED ON REAL EPISODES. I can try to find them if asked for]

Silly Dawn actually re-inspired me to talk about this BECAUSE OH MY GOD THIS MAY BE MY BIGGEST BREAKTHROUGH / THEORY

I have never believed for a SECOND that V4 Eclipse is just a “clone” of himself. AND I’LL EXPLAIN WHY.

1. Who is Eclipse, what is his character?

Eclipse was originally a single strand of code that was ripped from Moon identified as “Moon’s Malice” during their split. He was left inside of Sun’s head, and overtime as he grew into Sun’s head, he developed into a man known as Eclipse, hellbent on making the two’s lives a living hell for the pain he was suffering and for the abandonment Moon caused.

Eclipse in his V1 form had very goofy mannerisms and took after Sun’s personality quite a lot, this is because he was trying to mimic him constantly in order to be unseen by Moon or other suspecting characters. He also mentions he had no choice but to take after Sun’s form, as it was the only thing he was able to do. He had no power in controlling his identity, and soon enough its also explained he can’t control how he acts either.

He still makes conscious decisions, but they are all based on Malice. Despite a few light points in Eclipse’s character such as feeling guilt or hesitation, he is unable to fight any negativity and simply give into it. This is because he is only made out of ONE string of code which is Moon’s Malice as previously stated. He did not have to choice nor the mental ability to grow and learn as a person if it didn’t have malicious intention with it. He still gains knowledge, but he cannot learn emotions.

His tone calms down and his demeanor changes at the time Lunar is created, this is how he gets his voice that we know of today. This is because Lunar is a vent for all of his positive more maniac emotions caused by Sun’s infectious coding that rubbed off on him while he was trapped. This would get rid of all his bounding aspects such as manic acting and general silliness. It was purified and extracted without the malice aspect and put into Lunar to create a portion of his personality along with Moon and Sun coding. With this, he could think more about himself and focus better on his goals. He was much smarter this way and even better at keeping low without having to be on the front lines as an actor, an impersonator.

His hate, the only emotion he could truly feel for himself, is what drove him and he used it as his purpose. But, when the hate began to dwindle after attempt and attempt of killing the people who wronged him, he fell into a depression. He lost a purpose and decided to give into the star and possibly perish from it…until he saw what was to come. A foreseeable “armageddon” to be caused by Lunar.

This is the first time Eclipse ever truly expressed a new emotion — fear. He tries to warn Lunar, Sun, Moon, and even Solar. He goes as far as to say he was just going to hop universes. He never got this chance, Moon called him out for lying (which he was not doing) and killed him. Though Eclipse did not warn them the best, he does not know how to be genuine without cruelty. It is not something his code allows. Because he’s only one string of it.

He comes back numerous times, remaining as that same single line of code. Because he is bringing this string of code to different bodies, but without anything else, he is still bound to that single string of Malice code.

2. Ruin

When the family thought Eclipse was gone for good, Ruin enters the picture. He brings back Eclipse in an attempt to capture him and then gain the trust of the celestial family by doing so…which…it kinda worked. But Eclipse knew everything. But the others thought he was insane, doing nonsensical ramblings nobody could understand…which was ODD for Eclipse. When he speaks to the Creator, he explains how terrified he is.

He is in a constant state of terror and isn’t like himself, he knows he isn’t. Everyone explains to the audience that he’s a clone, he’s not the real Eclipse.

This is a fucking lie.

This show is littered with lies and misinformation. I have scanned through so much of them, especially when it comes to Eclipse. I do not study their words like many people do. I study their voices, their body language, and their voice actors. Yeah Davis you’re in my lore board buddy (/silly) I look at the voice actors and study how they act, the phrases they repeat, how they lie, how they push certain ideas forward, even looking at the characters themselves and dissecting mental illness’ from humans that have influenced the AI’s. (Ex: Eclipse’s Depression)

The only people. Who have ever accurately described Eclipse. Is Solar flare, and Earth. Solar Flare comes first. Not just because he was in Eclipse’s head (though that is the BIGGEST part), but also because THEY ARE BOTH PLAYED BY DAVIS. Davis knows everything about Eclipse, he knows what the character motive’s are and he has all the background behind-the-scenes lore that WE DON’T HAVE.

For example just like in the Solar Flare confronting Eclipse episode right before the Two Parter, we learn that Eclipse did care for Lunar. We learn that Lunar’s made of all his happy thoughts and emotions, and in his death we even learn that Eclipse did have true, genuine intentions. And then, Eclipse became afraid to die. But he was soon to accept death, and finally move on. He let go of all his dread and accepted the fact he needed to die.

UNTIL THAT STUPID RUIN CAME ALONG. (/SILLY)

Eclipse in his resurrection displayed a MAGNITUDE OF DIFFERENT EMOTIONS. ESPECIALLY FEAR. But he also showed many genuine anti-malice emotions as well. Fear, guilt, patience, generosity, sympathy, pity, all of that and more. It’s why he decided to help. Remember the first time Earth and Eclipse met? An insult massacre. Eclipse completely SNAPPED at Earth and wouldn’t give a single slip of kindness towards her. And now look at them. After Ruin remade him, Eclipse was suddenly a lot more…not necessarily kinder, but better. He was patient, and he was especially more /quiet/. He allowed people to speak for themselves more, he did not sling insults everywhere he went. Though, a few slip out here and there, they are not NEARLY as black and white as they used to be. He used to directly insult people for their intelligence, and nowadays he’s just a “fuck off” “leave me alone” “stop talking” guy. The difference is HUGE.

Okay, so if he’s in a clone, HOW IS HE GETTING HIS MEMORIES??

“Well, it’s said they’re all imported in a third person view perspective. “ you might say.

Yes, that is true. That is what actually happened. BUT. IT’S ALSO NOT THE WHOLE STORY. From a “third view perspective”, this would mean all the TSAMS episodes and TEALS episodes including him were imported into his mind. But if that’s the case, why does he remember things off-screen? When he’s by himself, not recording, and suffering. Details not given to us in episodes that appear when V4 Eclipse says them. I’ll tell you, it’s because he has his ORIGINAL MEMORIES TOO. A defect I cannot fully explain except with a shaky theory I will explain later.

If his memories are truly in a third person view, he would be like New Moon (now known as Nexus, but for past-tense speaking, it’s New Moon.) He would be utterly confused and only going off what the show gave him, and eventually he would pull out a new identity for himself such as Nexus did.

But he’s not. That’s the issue. We have seen him deal with REAL-TIME PTSD and lash out against the Sun that he currently resides in. You do not have PTSD from a third-person view memory. It is no longer YOUR trauma, it is someone else’s and therefore does not affect you. We saw this with New Moon’s lack of trauma of killing kids. Instead, he is actually simply afraid of letting his family down like Old Moon did. (how fucking ironic, huh Nexus?) This is a phobia, not PTSD.

Eclipse has PTSD. He still has his trauma. He is not a clone.

“So what’s your explanation? He was a single line of code— but now that he’s resurrected again with the ability to just learn and grow as a human being?? How does that work?? How is Eclipse alive and able to become a brand new person?”

Great question, me!

Because he’s not that single strand of code anymore.

He is not a PARODY. He is REIMAGINED.

A parody is the same song with a different voice, a different tone, a different artist. — a clone.

A re-imagine is the same artist, same melody, but advanced. It has grown, it’s been improved upon. — V4 Eclipse

Eclipse is his original coding with Ruin’s implanted coding that ALLOWS HIM to grow and learn emotionally and mentally. It even assists in his Depression as we see he gains new coping mechanisms in TEAPS such as working for anyone who asks. He did not nor ever consider a coping mechanism in his previous life.

Eclipse is not used to being able to grow, so his system freaks out. He doesn’t know how to process it because he has never experienced it before. Even as Moon, Moon only improved after separation. Eclipse experience full anixety and panic attacks simply because he can feel. It’s a lot to take in, and it’s especially harder when NOT ONLY HAVE YOU BEEN BROUGHT BACK FROM CERTAIN DEATH, but you’ve also don’t know what’s going on with yourself. He was told he’s just a clone, and yet he is experiencing all of this deflective evidence.

5. The plotholes.

Truthfully, this whole thing could be one large plothole, or a retcon, or something simply not yet explained. This is a forever-series, it’s going to happen. It’s for fun, and we should all be treating it as such. Their happiness matters over ours, we’re just here for the ride. But, my favorite part of this show is looking for these plotholes and making them all connect. Some plotholes are intentionally left there as well, for us to depict. Not because TSAMS is one big mystery, but it’s because all of these are human (ooc and ic for acting) interactions. They’re meant to be confusing and not connect, they’re all from different perspectives and different backgrounds. This is why dissecting them emotionally is SO IMPORTANT.

The only real plothole I can admit to this whole thing is this:

“How did Eclipse gain the behind-the-scenes memories? The things he experienced when nobody else was around, not even the cameras?”

I only have a theory for this one built entirely off of my own fiction. It’s called “The Memory Of Water.”

I remember this theory from real-life circumstances but I cannot find the source ANYWHERE. If someone recognizes this, let me know! The Memory Of Water is about how the water remembers everything history disturbs it with. Because Water has no form, it forms over everything. It remembers the fish that pass by, it remembers the plants that grow and die, it remembers disasters and blessings. Fishermen and boats, everything.

I have tied this in with a theory called “The Memory of Star Power.”

The Star is said to connect with the first person who uses it. Being technical, it would have been both Moon and Eclipse at the same time who’d be connected with it. Because they built it together when they resided in the same body before the split. Without that piece of info, it would be Sun or Eclipse. Sun for using Star Power, Eclipse for using The Star. Because Eclipse would be bound to it, I believe The Memory Of Water works the same way with him with Star Power. I am to believe it held his memories and upon his resurrection, the star power flooded memories into him very subtly bit by bit as time went on. This would allow him to have his memories once again and from a first-person POV.

He’s not the same Eclipse as in the way one could say “I am not the same person I was when I was a child.”

He is not a completely blank-slate clone.

He is still responsible for everything, but he has grown and is learning to be better. He finally has that ability and it is all thanks to Ruin.

As another piece of evidence, I genuinely don’t believe Davis would just allow Eclipse to be re-made and replaced again. I hope he believes just as much as I do how wrong that would be and just generally disrespectful to all of Eclipse’s emotional character. It’s the same thing with Moon replacing Eclipse with Solar. Moon’s actions were extremely lazy and disrespectful and I cannot bring myself to care about someone who brushes struggling people off to the side like that and replace them. I don’t think Davis would do this with his characters either especially having some idea of Davis’ personal issues.

I may have left things out, in all my long and winded rambles I do forget certain points and I don’t always come back to block up other plotholes I may have left behind. They’re always very messy…so I am sorry about that!! :(…and if you found any spelling erroe uh nuhhu nuh nokt yotu diddnt

But that’s just a theory!! A TSAMS THEORY!! 🤪🤪🤪🤪

…he’s right behind me isn’t he /JOKE

[the-chaos137]

Chat this is wild.

After today’s episode I think the theory of Dark Sun prepping Nexus’s brain and body for Sun to absorb might just be canon, or smt similar to it.

“The reason I’ve been doing every single thing, is for Sun.”

He is using Nexus as a way to help Sun, he has seen all this horrible stuff happen to countless other Suns at the expense of a Moon, it’s always a Moon that causes everything, every Sun’s suffering. Dark Sun knows this and uses it to fuel all his plans and ideals. He hates Nexus. He hates him, but he must play along so his plan goes the way he wants.

I think the reason he’s more ‘causal’ with Ruin is because they’re half Sun. Sure their half Moon as well- that’s why Dark Sun doesn’t really like them or have an opinion on them, but he treats them better then Nexus does.

He is doing something with Nexus, i know it. The person he said is going to die? It’s going to be Nexus. Why wouldn’t it? Dark Sun hates Moons. He planned for Nexus to go crazy. He’s been planning and manipulating everything for who knows how long to go in his (and most likely Sun’s) favour. He has everyone right where he wants them.

It’s only a matter of time now.

[ecoeclipselion]

Time for a Ramble/Theory cause I don’t think anyone mentioned this—

So I’m rewatching some of the Old Sun and Moon Show episodes.

I am on the 3 Parter of Sun and Moon vs the Wither Storm and something happened to Sun that made me think of something.

At 4 minutes and 7 seconds. Sun gets caught in a Haze where he was feeling sick from being near the wither storm.

Now in the present time with Sun he gets headaches when he is near the Shards and isn’t as affected.

🌟 My theory. Cause of Sun being exposed to the Wither Storm sickness early on and from it’s haze it made him immune to the affects that Moon feels. As for sensing the Shards? Probably came after Sun defeated the Wither Storm and got enhanced when he started learning Magik.

Feel free to add on. Would like to hear thoughts and theories on this as well. :o

[misinformedhuman]

GUYSSSS I HAVE A THEORY ABT SUNNNN

(i have barely anything to back this one up so im extremely unconfident abt it 🥲)

(I've had this theory for a WHILE now but i was waiting for something to pop up so i could support it, however since i haven't found much I'm just gonna say it now)

So we all know how when Sun and moon went to D.Sun's dimension Sun kept falling into a trace when he saw the dragon wither storm, right?

and we also know that when Moon touched/was near the wither shard that he got from that one dimension with monty having the star, he felt nauseous and his head was hurting, but Sun felt completely fine around it

Considering all of those things, what if Sun is a wither storm? or at least has the potential to become one? (ik that sounds like absolute nonsense but lemmie pull my matpat card rn-)

Maybe Sun feels a connection to the wither shards and the wither dragon cuz he's meant to absorb said shards to reach his full power/potential, and the dragon is like his "brother in wither" or something of that sort

Regarding what D.Sun said about how his entire plan revolving around Sun to Ruin, i doubt that was a lie because D.Sun kept mumbling "all for you" to himself as he was leaving to go feed the dragon (this theory also kinda connects to my D.Sun theory i made a while ago)

I think D.Sun's plan with Sun is to get him to reach his full potential that he was unable to reach when he was our Sun's place beforehand

(sense i have basically nothing to back this up I don't think i can say much more abt this until more stuff pops up)

[polaris-stuff]

Good morning, TSAMS fandom

What if the virus that is controlling Moon does is highlight the bad traits of the infected and everyone is infected except the Suns models because Dark Sun had to make sure not to infect himself? And that's why Earth says she feels more aggressive lately and that it's weird, and that's why Lunar is more apathetic and that's why Moon's insecurities consumed him more quickly?

And the Eclipses are not infected either (Eclipse and Ruin) because at the end of the day they are also part Sun and the virus only works on Moons and Earth models.

[llamaisllama777]

I... I think I know what's going on.

Theory: Nexus ain't dead. We're all still playing Dark Sun's game!

(Nexus fans, you're gonna love this. I know I am)

Okay, so, in today's episode, we see Moon travels to another dimension cause of a dimensional anomaly and sees a Sun bashing his Moon's skull in. Moon is obviously startled and horrified by this, and after a little investigation, Moon finds out something is wrong in the multiverse, apparently in 36% of the multiverse a bunch of Suns have started to kill their Moons.

Why? How? What caused this? What triggered it? Suns just don't start randomly murdering Moons...

I think we may have an answer...

Nexus isn't really gone. Dark Sun is still pulling the strings.

Okay, so, remember this episode?

In this episode, Dark Sun asks Nexus' permission and full trust to do something. Now we never found out what this something was until now, I think.

Dark Sun also mentioned in this episode or a different one he says that Nexus wouldn't have the same body forever. I thought he meant like he'd make Nexus a new body to contain his negative star power, but no. He just meant Nexus wouldn't have the same body... he never said he'd make him a new one.

In this episode...

Dark Sun briefly mentions to Sun that whoever he chooses to kill, he will exsponge the data of them so they couldn't come back... this means Dark Sun has access to Moon and Nexus' code... he has their code. Hmmmm....

Plus, Dark Sun did have access to Ruin a.k.a, a guy who had been exposed and probably knows how to make the Ruin virus...

Nexus isn't gone. He's just not in our world anymore. He's in EVERY WORLD NOW!

When Sun killed Nexus, that's what Dark Sun wanted. He didn't want Moon to die. That wouldn't benefit him. He needed Nexus to die to complete his plan. Dark Sun has access to Nexus' code and Ruin, a guy who knows an awful lot about the Ruin virus he probably knows how to make it, too.

Dark Sun wanted Sun to kill Nexus, so Nexus would die and become pure code, Dark Sun could then spread Nexus around the multiverse like a virus and cause other Moon's to go rouge and become Nexuses which would cause other Suns to kill their Moons and become like Dark Sun in a sense.

Dark Sun did say he did all this for Sun and probably every other Sun.

Dark Sun is trying to prove to all Suns that all Moons are bad and that they're better off without them. But of course, in the grand scheme of the multiverse, not EVERY Moon can be bad, so Dark Sun and Nexus MADE them bad.

Dark Sun is trying to create more hims cause he does view himself as the Superior Sun, the Sun that grew up, the Sun that grew a spine, the Sun that fought back!

Dark Sun views himself as a sort of savior of Suns, and in his twisted mind, he's trying to save the other Suns from being used and abused by their Moons. He's trying to prove his point that all Moons are bad, but since not every Moon is bad, he had to make them bad to prove his point. (Which kind of defeats his point, but I digress)

Dark Sun is trying to do this to save the other Suns! By ruining the other Moons!

Tl;Dr Nexus isn't dead and is now pure code, and Dark Sun is having him go around the multiverse, turning all Moon's into Nexuses to prove his point that all Moons are bad and make more Suns like himself.

But hey, that's just a theory...

A TSAMS THEORY!

[sabrondabrainrot]

Latest EP theory "Moon goes MISSING during his HALLOWEEN PARTY!!!"

🌃🌕🎃🚀

I currently have two theories, mostly on Sun's phone and I'll try to be eloquent but break is only so long and I have limited time!

I've been yelling @ikamigami for long enough on these theories XD but they did help me to refine my rambly ideas.

For starters, for those who haven't seen the ep, to avoid spoiling things for everyone I'm putting the theories under the cut!

Both of my theories are pretty outlandish so take them with a grain of salt, knowing how TSAMS can be, this might just be a straightforward situation where Moon was grabbed and will be used as ransom or bargaining for Sun. However, while I feel that is the course I like to overthink and come to with theories on what else might be going on.

So starting off, my first theory revolves around Sun, Dark Sun, and Sun's phone.

During the party, in my opinion, I think Sun was acting oddly. I propose, it wasn't Sun but instead Dark Sun doing his imposter work. So for starters, Moon leaves to get soda for the party and very shortly after 'Moon' calls 'Sun' to tell him the store is out of soda. Just completely out.

Then Sun, very loudly plays their phone conversation for everyone to hear, which is odd because he went into the other room to take Moon's call but then it got so loud the entire party could hear that Moon was now on his way back, and soda-less. (Kind of odd the store was completely out of sodas?). I will also add Sun abruptly hung up on Moon which seemed very out of character for him.

Furthering this odd behavior, Solar took Dazzle out to trick or treat, which seems innocuous at first but I need to remind everyone up until this episode Sun on record has been too worried and scared to even let Dazzle in the back yard even with Jack's protection. So it's just strange Sun was very.... uncaring? Unbothered? About Dazzle going out, without Jack too. Just with Solar.

Then when Sun met up with Solar later he panicky explained to Solar that Moon said he left the store but he still went there to look for him. The entire time Sun is this immediately scared and stuttering mess. Now, he is worried about Moon but we've seen a much calmer and more mature Sun as of late and I don't think he'd be a stuttering mess.

Now that I've laid the foundation, my idea is, I think Sun has already been grabbed. We've seen recently that Dark Sun, or D!Sun has been more aggressive with his space invasion. He's been coming in and out more and pretending to be Sun blatantly. We had a recent episode where for an indeterminate amount of time D!Sun was pretending to be Sun in their home, around Solar and the kids. Molten was also right there and didn't notice anything. He was full on acting strange and no one questioned it. Dazzle only thought he seemed sad. By the end of the charade, D!Sun just left while asking Solar to call his phone because he couldn't find it.

He gave away the fact their own home isn't safe. Solar knew after calling his Sun that the entire time he was with D!Sun.

Something interesting is the only thing that's so far gotten D!Sun caught when he's pretending to be Sun, is Sun's phone. Forever ago, D!Sun tried visiting Foxy and FC when he was living at his stormy beach house and was immediately caught as not Sun because Foxy was only moments ago texting Sun. While Foxy in particular is observational he would have fallen for the act if not for the prior text messages. Then, later on after the first encounter with Goliath, D!Sun showed up to give advice to, and check up on, Earth and Lunar. The entire exchange would have been innocuous if the real Sun didn't happen to call.

So, keep the timing and Sun's phone in mind.

In today's episode Moon shortly after his strange soda-less run, called Monty and let them know he could not get a hold of Sun, he was apparently trying to call him multiple times. Which, when we find Sun outside not only is the not worried about the missed calls but doesn't even state "I have no missed calls." On top of Monty's call suspiciously cutting off.

Now why would Moon keep trying to call Sun when less than 5 minutes ago he spoke to 'Sun'? I think the first Moon on the phone was actually Nexus pretending to be Moon. He's just not the best at pretending to be Old Moon, so D!Sun hung up before he could give too much away.

The second call I think was Moon, he was trying to get a hold of Sun but due to Sun not being available he called Monty instead. (Reminder, Monty is Moon's go to when he thinks anything might be wrong.) I think Moon calling Monty was not according to plan, him leaving to go to the store was not according to plan. D!Sun maybe sent a signal to Ruin to grab Moon before D!Sun could be caught again. The phone is his immediate give away so D!Sun at this point knows to eliminate that before it can cast suspicion his way.

I think he was at the Halloween party pretending to be Sun as an elaborate distraction scheme. The only people who could stop Sun's kidnapping are Solar and Moon so keeping them unaware something is occurring is the easiest option. However, Moon leaving to grab Soda at the store was very much an unprompted thing. I think this wasn't according to plan. So D!Sun had to improve with Nexus and Ruin.

At the party when D!Sun took the call it was more then likely an exchange of code. How can the store be completely out of Soda? However, if this is Nexus pretending to be Moon, he needed to make up some kind of code. Sun himself may actually be on the run? Nexus might have communicated 'no soda at the soda store' as a means to let D!Sun know Sun isn't secured and to keep stalling. Moments after the actual Moon called and raised suspicion that he couldn't get a hold of Sun, despite 'Sun' being right there at the party. So, I propose, he sent another signal or order to Ruin to grab Moon while on the call to stop Moon from further alerting the others something might be wrong with Sun.

The second part of the plan was probably enacted messily. Plus, a hasty kidnapping plot would buy Nexus enough time to grab and subdue Sun. While that happens, Ruin keeps Moon tucked away somewhere and D!Sun can lead Solar on a literal made up goose chase.

IS this convoluted? Yes. I feel like it's right up a Dark Sun plot though, the guy is a Sun. So, that's my first theory.

My next theory I feel doesn't have as much to it, but it is still solid. I find it a bit more boring? So the way this next theory goes is this, I think what we might be seeing as an audience is the occurrence when two individuals somehow just miss each other at the right moment.

We know Nexus and D!Sun have eyes and ears everywhere, D!Sun was literally able to touch Sun's bed and car. They know everything about their day to day schedules. So it wouldn't be hard to time things in their favor. We saw this recently from Nexus showing up with those drones to talk to Earth in the daycare and Sun at Atlas' study. (They even know where to find that). He also managed to show up and attack Moon while Moon was alone twice. Not to mention isolating Solar twice too.

So with the hyper-vigilance and D!Sun's methodical ways, I think he is orchestrating a trap. I was explaining how strange Sun was acting at the party, and while it is grasping at straws that he's D!Sun, another explanation could be maybe Sun is just stressed? He wants to be a good host to the party. He has a lot of guests to entertain and despite his protectiveness towards Dazzle he trusts Solar to keep her safe.

So with the theory I think the opposite happened, The first person calling Sun was Moon, the store was out of Soda and well....having anything go wrong for a party you planned carefully is stressful. So him snippily hanging up the phone on Moon can be believable, especially since it seemed like Moon was about to start an argument over nothing. Then, while they watch Moon leave the store Nexus called Monty, pretending to be Moon. Nexus just made up a lie about not being able to reach Sun to make Sun and Monty worry that something might be wrong. The only reason Moon would call Sun so much was if he needed help afterall.

Sun, being a good brother obviously would go to the store to see what's wrong. This is when the 'just missed each other' idea comes in. I'm thinking Moon left in advanced and Nexus summoned Sun with the false call, to lure him and hopefully Solar, away from the party and group. With how the timing should go down, Sun shows up to the store when Moon arrives back home to the party. Nexus probably made sure to time it so Sun and Solar would be in the same spot so he could lure them far away in a short amount of time. I think the kidnapping note is a red herring to lead them to a trap. What is the trap? No idea. Nexus is showing that he in particular wants Sun, Solar, and Earth to join him. He's offered a spot by his side to all three. Sun and Solar are right now together in an undisclosed location. It would be interesting to see if Earth is also lured away too.

To me, this theory is a lot more...boring? I think it also holds a bit of water. Let me know what you all think! Which theory did you like more?

[thorns-and-rosewings]

So now with today's episode we have some new information on Frank. At first glance it seems like it would disprove the Pisces Theory, but... I am not entirely sure about that. I'm starting to think there's two paths here...

Firstly: He said Puppet was on the right track in regards to the Aspect of Fear thing, but obviously he's not fully correct... What is clear is that Frank has tons of power, a strange knowledge of Fate and enough skill to create an instantaneous copy of one of the Bloodtwins. Almost like STAR POWER; whereas he's deeply entwined to all these negative emotions, negative energies, fear, quite possibly along the lines of ANTI-STAR POWER. So here's the deeper question...

My Main Theory: What if Frank is a Chimera?

Something Gemini mentioned on an episode was they thought some of the other Astrals had died (Or blown up) before... What if in another universe... they all did? All the Astrals 'died' but rather than reform normally, some of them reformed into a hybridized form? Probably with more than a few pieces of Witherstorm/Anti-matter mixed in. Enough to screw with any memories or purpose those Astrals originally had. The result is a creature with a lot of power and conflicting natures... and behold! Our Frank exists...

My Secondary Theory: He's a different dimension Pisces...

Castor had commented in a different episode that while Astrals exist across dimensions they might have different power levels or other variations.

What if Frank is an Astral from another (Dead) universe who just moved in? Somewhat like Puppet, only this Astral is on a radically different power level compared to the ones in this universe or has mutated in some unconventional ways? He's been watching Sun and Moon because of all the Star Shenanigans, but has only recently decided to become active, due to all the insanity going on.

Which could be beneficial for Lunar actually... Gemini has mentioned that the Astrals are split on the decision of what to do with Lunar. Another Astral to tip the scale in Lunars favor could help the Celestial Family out.

These are just my thoughts honestly. Probably wrong, but has anyone else got any ideas after todays episode?

[croissantlover24]

Third-Person Bias

For a while, I have seen posts defending both Earth and Nexus and understood both sides. I didn’t really know where I stood on this issue as a Nexus fan myself. However, recently, I looked back at a few of the posts defending Nexus and realized they were being unfair to Earth. This is where I believe the fandom has a sort of third-person bias.

Before New Moon changed his name, we, the viewers, saw his slow descent into madness. We saw how Solar’s death affected him; how it changed his mindset. Did Earth? Did New Moon tell Earth that he wasn’t doing well? No, he didn’t. During one of the therapy episodes, he told Earth he was doing fine. He lied to Earth about his mental state. Earth couldn’t have known what he was going through like we did because she doesn’t watch the show.

I believe some of us Nexus fans (myself included) have a tendency to be upset at the family for disowning Nexus so quickly. I think this is where we have a sort of bias because we see things from the third person—we see everyone’s views—while the characters don’t. The characters see from only their own perspective. With the Earth Q&A episode, I began to try and see things more by Earth’s side. And I think she was right. I implore you to take a moment and think as if you are Earth. You told your brother that you were there for him if he needed someone to talk to. He told you he was fine. You did not know just how awful his mental state was until he threw your insecurities back at you. And then he said you were simply collateral damage. In this situation, Earth is rightfully upset.

Another argument for the Nexus fans, however, is that the family would have noticed just how out of character he was acting. I think this is another area where we have a third-person bias, but for a different reason. We aren’t feeling the emotions they are. We aren’t feeling betrayal or sadness. Those kinds of emotions can cloud a person’s judgement, causing them to not really notice whether their actions are normal or not; causing them to not really notice if the people around them are acting as they should. We haven’t just been almost killed by our brother, but Earth has. All kinds of emotions would logically be clouding her judgement right now.

In conclusion, I believe that, as the viewers, we tend to judge characters by what we see. We don’t often try to imagine what they see; what emotions are plaguing their typically clear judgement. Because of this, we often have a sort of bias against characters without really thinking what they’re going through. Please note that this is not an attack against Nexus fans. I am one myself. This is just a possible explanation (please note, not an excuse, just an explanation) for why the characters act the way they do and why they disowned Nexus so swiftly, specifically Earth.

Feel free to elaborate on my thoughts or add on your own. Thank you for reading. :)

[rayofmisfortune]

OH MY GOSH SUN LOOKS SO ADORABLE IN THE THUMBNAIL

Episode spoilers under cut + a small theory cuz brain go BRRRRR

Solar, Moon and Lunar geeking out about dragon mythology while Sun's just there screaming and panicking 😭 He's gonna hold such a grudge against everyone jfnfn

What kind of shape shifting magic did Solar use jfnfnf Did he just swap the bodies of another Sun with theirs? Because if so DAMN THE SUN FROM THE DRAGON DIMENSION MUST'VE BEEN CONFUSED EVEN MORE THAN OUR SUN FJJFJF That guy probably didn't even have any context and just suddenly BOOM turned into a robot jfnfnf

[evilyn-is-gay]

Is Jonathon that kid he burnt the house down of

Yk

His friend

Who he killed

…

Well that’s depressing