#transandrophobes

[abearinthewoods]

Yes.

[evillesbianvillain]

transracialism real under zionist thought

[luxiomahariel]

its a little fucked up that we can all acknowledge that blaire white is transphobic and especially transmisogynistic but some of u trans men/mascs cant grasp that you can be transphobic and especially transandrophobic

no one is incapable of being bigoted just because they identify the same way as the target of their bigotry.

[pokemon-radical-red]

“Yeah, so like I’m actually a trans man! Uh, I finally worked up the courage to tell you, so yeah…”

“Ewww… why would anyone choose to be a man? KAM! Like you have the choice to be a WOMAN and you CHOSE to be a man?????”

“Huh? You’ve always said you’re a trans ally. Some of our other friends are trans. Why would you-”

“Are you trying to say I’m transphobic? I acknowledged that you’re a man!”

[sassquire]

have you escaped the cave?

[starryroe]

People in the transmisogyny tag stop saying trans men and nonbinary people are inherently more likely to be misogynistic than other people challenge

People in the transandrophobia tag stop saying or implying that trans women are the cause of every one of your problems, especially by saying things like "well they used to identify as boys" challenge

People in the exorsexism tag stop implying or even outright saying that society loves binary trans people challenge

Trans people venting about our oppressions stop saying that the biggest problems to said oppressions are caused by other trans people existing challenge

[dreamyintersexouppy]

the way people on here use "trans inclusive radical feminist" reads as such a nonsense term that borders on "these new woke trannies have gone too far" and then you realize that it's used to label transfeminist trans women as harassment targets just like accusations of incest or pedophilia are and it's clear that how it reads is pretty accurate to what it means to the people using it that way

[resdayn]

yet another parallel between ace discourse and transmasc discourse:

2017: "aces arent nearly as oppressed as lesbians so they dont need to be in the community! nobody is hatecrimed for being ace."

"2024: "trans men arent nearly as oppressed as trans women so they dont belong in the community! nobody gets mad at someone becoming more masculine."

Meanwhile, aces face the highest rates of conversion therapy among ALL queer people. Transmascs have the highest rates of suicide and sexual assault among all trans people. This will be true whether exclusionists like it or not. Oppression is not a competition. Anyone who acts like it is reveals their own fundamental misunderstanding of intersectionality and queer solidarity.

[discountprophet]

when you say “transandrophobia isnt real” you’re actively contributing the the silencing and oppression of trans men and mascs by trying to erase and minimize our lived experiences: our abuse, our struggles, our erasure by society AND the trans community, our denial of medial care, our much higher rates of corrective rape and sexual assault, our denial of resources for the higher sa we experience, and much much more

you arent trans men/mascs. you DONT get to decide if our oppression/experiences are real. you dont get to walk all over us and silence us. we will not be the quiet subservient girls you want us to be

[that-satireguy]

'when you go on and on'- when you're referring to traumatised people speaking on their trauma as 'going on and on', you've already started this conversation on a very bad foot. But lets go on to the rest of it.

'this strange concept that you are socially shunned for not medically transitioning'- this concept is strange to you? Is this the first time I get to introduce you to ✨transmedicalism✨ and the word ✨transtrender✨ and ✨medical misogyny✨

'or passing'- you don't think there are people who socially shun visibly trans people more than the ones they can pretend don't exist?

'reaffirming that trans men are nothing but traumatised women'-

This statement is absolutely fucking disgusting. What twisted logic is this?

'Yes. You were traumatised. BUt dont talk about it otherwise you're agreeing with people who want you dead. 🥰'.

Not to mention that this implies there is something lesser about being traumatised. I may not be a traumatised woman. But I am certainly a traumatised man. That does not make me lesser. That does not make me broken. That does not justify me being infantilised or treated as less than. This entire spiel of yours has pretty much just been 'you don't get to talk about being oppressed, otherwise you justify that oppression.' wtf is wrong with you?

Not to mention, this would absolutely not be socially acceptable to say to cis women. Imagine hearing a cis women go: '1 in 6 women experience rape/attempted rape and this has affected me deeply' and your response is- 'you can't say that! You're minimising yourself. YOu're equivalent to misogynists who say you're weak and stupid.'

Throughout this little think piece of yours you demonstrate not just a fundamental misunderstanding of what transphobic misogynists think about trans men, but just generally a contempt for victims of misogynistic abuse. In fact your argument is that victims of misogynistic abuse speaking on it, justifies more misogynistic abuse.

The last line really drives it home 'it is essentially that concept'.

'Trans men are systematically oppressed and infantilised, they are abused and treated badly and it is important to draw attention to the fact of the world we are living in' =/= 'Trans men deserve to be systematically oppressed and infantilised, they deserve to be abused and treated badly

[ego-similis-testudines]

I don't know who needs to hear this, but TME/TMA discourse inherently divides the trans community down gender lines, erroneously pits trans men and transmascs against trans women and transfems, and serves only to sow seeds of discord in an already-divided trans and overarching LGBTQ+ community. It's called the trans community. Not the transmasc community. Not the transfem community. The trans community. That's it. Nothing else. We are on the same team in the fight for human rights, protections, and representation for ourselves and our fellow trans siblings. A house divided cannot stand and we will never get anywhere as a community if all we do is argue on Tumblr over who has it worse (which hinges on the argument that transmascs and trans men have any sort of privilege whatsoever by virtue of being ignored - invisibility is not a privilege, and it's certainly not male privilege) instead of fostering what community we have left before we eat each other alive over bullshit and don't have one anymore.

You cannot build nor foster community when you hate half of your community over online discourse that barely has any bearing on material reality whatsoever if you interact with people who are not chronically online and brainrotted by the cesspool of queer discourse. There is some level of truth to "People when you go outside: 'Hey man, how's it going?'"

Also for the love of G_d, stop sorting intersex people into the restrictive boxes of your new binary and ignoring them or calling them transmisogynists when they don't want to be affiliated with your particular brand of divisiveness.

[luxiomahariel]

theres something to be said about how the vast majority of transandrophobes are also exclusionary towards mspec lesbians or aspec people or trans men/masc people who are lesbians or sometimes all of them at once

something about how bigotry loves company

[fungaldeity]

from decolonising trans/gender 101 by b. binaohan. this one passage is such a clear articulation of what pisses me off abt the transunity “we’re all oppressed” shit that tmes try to pull every time a woman talks abt anything

[sassquire]

"i just want trans men to admit they have patriarchal power over trans women."

thats the thing here. thats the thing causing all the infighting, the 'who has it worse'. people are absolutely convinced that trans women actually have it The Worst out of all trannies bc they're somehow able to be Uniquely Hurt in a way that no other tranny can be hurt, even BY other trannies, and that's why people are foaming at the mouth at 'transandrophobia'.

because if they believe transmisogyny means men (cis and trans) oppress trans women, they'll conversely define transandrophobia as 'trans women oppress trans men'. and no matter how much we tell them that isnt what we're fucking saying it doesn't matter, because they're coming to the table with the dumbfuck moonlogic that transgender men are somehow able to access cisgender levels of power within the patriarchy. when in reality we can't. because we're transgender.

no, being thin and white and able-bodied and on hrt and middle class, (because that's the John Transman everyone has in their head) doesn't erase the fact that you're transgender. it doesn't give trans men power over trans women, because those are all things trans women can also be.

'but when you control for all those variables, you're just left with a man and a woman, and men--' if trans women never had access to male privilege, even while closeted or before their egg cracked, then trans men don't get it either, even 'post transition'. we've heard from trans women about how people could sniff out that they weren't actually men before they themselves knew-- you think that doesn't happen to trans men once they've transitioned? that cisgender people never think a trans man is performing maleness wrong?

the point is there is no mythical, preferred tranny that has access to cisgender power because we're all failed women, we're all failed men, one moment to the next, and both at the same time

[transmaverique]

amab and afab, if they were used as shorthand for the actual full phrases that they signify, with emphasis on the "assigned" part, and an understanding that they are enforcements of normative (ie, dyadic and cisgender and binary) sex, would be like. really useful. but people took the terms and started using them as shorthand FOR normative sex instead of the ENFORCEMENT OF normative sex. so when other trans people (almost always dyadic trans people) ask for your agab they are almost always asking for your Original Genital Situation. your starting point, so to say. and the reason FOR asking is also almost always bc they are trying to also enforce a certain kind of normativity within queer spaces (which is stupid bc being queer is inherently non-normative but here we are). like, you cant be a lesbian if you're ftm, bc you ARE m, so if you ARE a lesbian, then that means you're lying about some aspect of your identity. does that make sense?

it is always always always incredibly.... i do not trust dyadic trans people that use cagab terms, even moreso than i do not trust dyadic trans people that just use agab terms. agab is also coopted intersex language, but the "coercive" part of cagab SPECIFICALLY refers to medical "intervention" of intersex characteristics, such as "corrective" surgeries and hrt. i am deeply fucking suspicious of any dyadic trans person that uses those terms exactly the same as described above, even moreso if they do so bc "all gender is coercive".

like. yeah. that's true. but you use these terms to erase and overtake intersex discussions on the medical abuse of intersex infants. and i cant help but wonder why you would feel the need to do that.

[macrotiis]

I wanna rant a little bit about that last post coz like I have feelings about it.

Reproductive rights are a huge part of feminism, but it's really important that it ISNT "sex-based oppression" bc tying birthing ability to the universal experience of womanhood is actually REALLY FUCKING MISOGYNIST. Like you're rly gonna say that women incapable of having children experience less oppression than those who can?

The bioessentialist idea of "sex-based" oppression is heavily weighed on the idea of a cis woman capable of giving birth to children as the definition of woman as a sex & gender. It is a damaging social construct that harms all who are socially classed as women in some way, regardless of actual gender or actual sex.

Like you realise already that definition of womanhood excludes a huge amount of women? And that it is so untrue to these women's actual experiences of misogyny?

It misses how misogyny treats infertile women regardless of sex as being "broken" because they are unable to fit the social role of womanhood.

It's also just like incorrect to the wider experience of misogyny of women who can have children at certain points in their lives, bc girls & women aren't capable throughout their entire life of having children. But young girls still experience misogyny up until puberty & past that, & misogyny doesn't go away after menopause, in fact menopausal women are treated as undesirable or used goods because they aren't typically capable of having children anymore.

The bottom line to all this is that, there is no one single universal experience of womanhood as a social role beyond just being a woman & you cannot exclude trans women from the experience of misogyny. Misogyny isn't "sex-based", bc sex is socially constructed in a way that does exclude a lot of women.

I rly beg fellow transmasc's & trans men to go out & spend time with trans women, talk to them about misogyny & their experiences with misogyny.

You wouldn't have these weird ass ideas about misogyny if you branched out more & tried to relate to trans women & their experiences with misogyny. It would fix a lot of the misconceptions folks have about radfems, TERFs & transmisogyny. Ppl get too caught up on this idea that TERFs hate trans women for their supposed relation to men & maleness, which is actually deeply untrue because really the crux of TERF ideology & most transmisogyny IS misogyny. It's rooted deeply in trans women not neatly fitting into the box of cis perisex white abled womanhood, it's about trans women being the wrong kind of woman, which IS the universal experience of misogyny & womanhood that all women & those socially classed as women face.

The sooner you stop treating transmisogyny & TERFism as a symptom of hating men & actually about hating women, the better your understanding of these ideologies & the better your understanding of where trans women fit in social roles of womanhood AND of your own place as a trans man.

You should rly be open to relating to & talking with ppl about any experience of misogyny that is outside your own, be that from trans women, women of colour, disabled women, intersex women, ect, because there are facets of misogyny you haven't experienced that are important to talk about & recognize.