#too tired for fandom discourse

[jolalibrary]

I miss when we were gardeners. when we tended to our fandom garden as a collective, instead of worrying that someone was making their part of the garden fancier than yours. I remember when people didn’t expect that it would be here tomorrow, when we lived in fear that we’d wake up and a site that housed our words would be gone, vanished. now, we don’t even care when our faves vanish and their blog becomes abandoned. we used to nurture fandom because it was an escape from the acting some of us had to do day to day, that we could be ourselves here. it feels—at times now—that people walk in, pluck a flower and leave. that if you’re not posting something new, your use is so little. but then, I remember when gif makers were respected and appreciated, and never had their work stolen and immediately put on twitter, and when moodboard makers and artists were adorned with so many reblogs and comments with ideas and headcanons that aided in new stories being generated. now no one shares any ideas out of fear some blog will write it first and you’ll be accused of stealing what you’ve spent months on. I remember when writers were seen as people who were just as talented as the people I’ve mentioned before, when people acknowledged how long it took to write a chapter or a one-shot. now, we’re easily replaceable, whether it’s AI or we’re simply not quick enough that people don’t want to invest. I remember waiting six months for an update on my fave fic, and I never felt slighted by it. because we liked being in fandom? we liked being supportive of everyone in it. we didn’t like everyone in it, because that’s impossible, but we didn’t make it our mission to burn them until they left, because we understood that even a gardener we didn’t like, was still someone cultivating a flower for someone we couldn’t make on our own. the saying it takes a village applies to fandom, and the question we need to be asking ourselves is: are we all doing our part or just taking and hoping it’ll be there to take from tomorrow?

[arcanegifs]

I rarely voice my opinions on stuff like this but I think it’s ridiculous that people fight over a show that hasn’t even aired yet.

[sukirichi]

PLEASE STOP COPYING FICS ‼️

I am by no means gatekeeping concepts or tropes. We all know that it’s normal to see the same tropes or AUs be used differently, and that is not plagiarism. However, I recently found a fic that was oddly similar to my old (and discontinued) Gojo x Reader series, Reckless. The CEO! Gojo is nothing new, and neither is an accidental pregnancy trope. The only reason I am concerned is because this Gojo series I found has the exact same themes as Reckless that consists of: a playboy CEO Gojo with a very notorious reputation, a poor reader who is an employee and asset to the company (someone who works closely with Gojo), reader getting knocked up from a one night stand with Gojo, reader with a seemingly dead/absent mother yet still in contact with her father, Gojo with a very traditional family who does not like reader, and Gojo with an ex he struggles to let go of - which are all elements of Reckless.

The first chapter of that Gojo fic is also eerily similar to my first chapter with the same flow of: YN finding out she’s pregnant and her friend being there for her, Gojo saying he’ll take responsibility because ‘they both made the baby’, YN having to move in with Gojo to take care of the baby, and both of them coming to a mutual agreement that their ‘relationship’ will be purely for the baby’s benefit. The flow of events and specific details about the characters’ backgrounds are too similar to mine.

Again, I am not gatekeeping concepts, just as how I’ve had other writers ask me if they could write their own stories or takes based off of the NAOYA’S TROPHY WIFE COLLECTION or the BONTEN HUSBANDS EXCLUSIVE, and I’m fine with that. I’m even happy people are inspired by what I write. But being inspired is completely different from taking someone’s story and posting it as yours. Please trust your own creativity and skills in writing. You can write amazing stories and have people love them without having to steal from others.

It’s sad to say this is not the first time I, and other writers, have been plagiarized. It’s even more upsetting to know that a friend of mine who has also written a Gojo series (that I’m sure you all know and dearly love) experiences the same issues with the same person. The fact that this is happening to many writers out there is disheartening. We work hard and pour a lot of love in the stories we create. None of us are getting paid for this, and we simply want to share our passions with others. So please, let us be kinder with one another and show love and support the right way. If you love a fic, you give feedback and rb/comment + show support to the writer. You don’t steal their ideas and play it off as your own because you liked it.

[mellowmaidenhairs]

i think ppl who are super online or into fandom should watch/read/etc something without ever touching fandom discourse or making aus or shipping characters just like every once in a while

[fettiowi]

Being a sonic fan is damn tiring ngl

[the--firevenus]

Honest to god if your entire criticism to aang and his final decision to spare ozai is "it's boring!" then I think you should stop watching ATLA and better yet stop talking about aang character in general.

Because I know you'd whole argument just miserable to listen to, your whole point of view to the world is miserable, lack of whimsical and joy, may one day you found that again for now, shut up.

[tsundereition]

omg guys proshipper isn't "basic dni criteria", like that list is supposed to represent actual irl issues(*), not some 2020 internet discourse. you guys are so annoying like if you're uncomfortable interacting with proshippers i understand and respect it, although you probably have a very twisted idea of what the word means (would make a separate post abt it but there are hundreds already). but please don't equate it to actual crimes. (*)also do you seriously think that a bigot troll is going to read your dni and be magically expelled from your strong aura. if anything it's going to make them want to harass you more. it's obvious that those lists are just a pose like "if i don't put racists dni they're gonna think i'm racist" NO aaagh you don't have to over-specify(?) everything about you when interacting online can we please go back to being normal istg. reject modernity embrace not writing a dni list and just blocking people like a normal person <3

[starryjkoo]

https://www.tumblr.com/starryjkoo/764086905378881536/httpswwwtumblrcomstarryjkoo76407096882620006?source=share

I'm just reading this now since i was inactive (going again) so I'm replying now (not saying you were waiting for my reply but I'm the same anon who's ask this was 😅)

I don't really have anything to add other than I agree with everything you said there. i know all those accounts you're talking about, i even know the "random taekook" account you said there without u mentioning their @ because guess what? been there done that kinda..i saw that tkkr saying all those "Just because i follow TK biased doesn't mean I'm tkkr" this that bs when 99% tweets are about TK and them following all sort of tkkrs ones that drag jm too lol. and their little ot7 followers backing up them..idk who they're trying to fool as if we can't smell a trash from miles away 😭

being honest u don't need to be chronically online to see what is the shit that's going on in Fandom or How it's filled with Tkkrs. a newly entered fan can tell it's full of Tkkrs so idk what pleasure others get by Lying saying TK are most hated in Fandom (just Today i saw those tweets with thousands of likes).

What pisses me off tho is ot7 jkkrs acting like many of the armys don't hate jm deep down. saying "They're hating on jm so they're not army" is such a bs thing to say and literally big jkk blogs here say that but ask them why they generalize solos because there's good solos too who just support one member in peace without dragging anyone but nope for them "If you stan only one member then you're an anti" like who gets to decide that? You? and who are you? their logic is just as useless as kpopies to me. You're the only jkkr who even talked about all the things happening with jm others are too ot7s to even address those things. Them saying that Fandom majorly doesn't dislike jm because of TK as a ship is funny because the same Fandom was seen begging Tkkrs for help when taehyung and Jennie's video was leaked but sure.

Hope the deserved people gets their karma back is all i can hope for now because i know for a fact that things are going to get worse in future Especially with what's going on with hybe and tkkrs loser ass Linking all of that to "jm is company's fav and they force Jkk" shit.

hi anon! no I’m happy to hear from you again, it makes me feel more sane to see people with the same opinions on some of this lol 😭

Yeah, that one account who just makes corny tkk shipping jokes and is very clearly an actual tkkr but you had half of ARMYtwt coming to their defense because they were all part of the same clique and most of them are “tk-biased”. They were laughing saying that using a duo name doesn’t mean you’re a shipper but when people were pulling up screenshots of them literally reading AUs they would just deflect lmao 😭 It’s just embarrassing.

And yeah I saw that too, a big and popular account talking about tkk being the most hated 🥴 just the audacity to say that, as if we don’t all have eyes and see the absurd amount of followers and engagement tkk accounts have on EVERY platform. And I could write a thesis on the absolute obsession ARMYs have w/ a tk-subunit just proving how deeply enmeshed the tkk shipping bias is in this fandom. And talking about the fandom hating a duo, I could write another thesis on how ARMYs are insanely weird towards Jikook, like damn AYS just drove that home for me.

Yeah, the hardcore OT7 jkkrs who deny that the fandom treats Jimin weirdly are just bizarre to me. Literally right now there’s discourse going on about US streams and you can find multiple hit tweets where they are straight up shading and attacking Jikook up and down in the comments, especially JM (they’re for sure getting nastier towards JK about this but some of them can at least concede that he has GP/popularity, but for some reason the bulk of ARMYs think that w/ JM it must be favoritism bc in their minds they decided that tkk were miles ahead of him in popularity despite his solo music ALWAYS performing the best or second best in the group). Like throw a dart at a board and you can find a random reason that ARMYs resent JM, whether it be over associating him with his solos the most (literally HYBE saw and marked this as a problem??) to just the fact that ARMYs are literally full of tkkrs who ALWAYS resent him on some level. Bizarre for jkkrs of ALL people to try and deny this as hard as some of them do? (and like I said I’m not saying JM is the only member who gets weird treatment from ARMYs sometimes, but he for sure gets it the most by virtue of tkkrs being as big as they are if nothing else. There are still tons of ARMYs who love him tho obviously).

And 100% on some jkkrs/ARMYs trying to say that people who hate JM aren’t ARMY to wash their hands of the issue. It’s literally not true because half the people shading him consider themselves ARMYs, a lot of tkkrs consider themselves ARMYs, ARMYs literally make up the following and likes of toxic tkk accounts, so what are they even talking about? That attitude is literally why it got so bad and we are where we are. Like just say you don’t care about Jimin and go I guess.

It's like we can be fandom critical and still care about/be a part of the fandom, this is the way it's been for me and literally any community I’ve ever been a part of? If you care about something you want to make it better which means looking inward and trying to identify and fix the problems. I get there’s a fine line between being critical and “victimizing” and “solo narratives” and “manti narratives” but c’mon, we can use critical thinking to differentiate, yeah? Because not every fandom/company complaint makes you a “solo” or “manti”. Just insane to me.

There’s so many issues with hardcore OT7 logic that we could get into tbh, but you’re right in that there’s nothing wrong with liking only one or two members as long as you’re not hating on the others. And tbh there’s nothing wrong with not liking and supporting all of them equally when isn’t it just normal to have preferences and to stream the music you enjoy the most? And just a note, the funny thing is that a good chunk of ARMYs who complain about this ARE pretty heavily biased, they just don’t want to admit it, even to themselves. And that’s one of the reasons diet-solos emerge and are so prevalent in the fandom right now.

I think the karma is definitely the fandom falling apart at the seams right now (even though sadly good people are getting punished for it). It’s toxic as hell in ARMY spaces, good ARMYs have left in droves, our charting is not great for non-Jikook (part of this I just blame on HYBE and their bad strategy of relying wholly on the fandom, or maybe it’s some of the members strategy tbf, but whoever decided, it wasn’t a good idea). I mean, I guess we’ll see what happens when BTS return, maybe more people will return and things will improve/stabilize somewhat but I also don’t think there’s really ever going back to how things were in the fandom either. Plus BTS are going to focus on group work for a minute, but it’s never going to be the same rate as pre-CH2, the solo careers are here to stay and we have no idea what the actual balance of solo/group/subunit work will be yet. I guess we’ll see but at least we know the karma is that JM antis and tkkrs are like the most miserable jobless people on the planet and JM is happy and healthy and wealthy and loved, so there’s that if nothing else. Stantwt in general just full of miserable losers.

Anyways sorry for yapping so much again lmao, I resonate with you on all these issues, I could go on forever about some of this lol so I’ll stop. And for sure, it would be nice for more jkkrs to talk about this kind of stuff tbh, at least the ones who are active in the fandom. And yeah the situation with the HYBE leaks and how they’re already doing the most to twist and start another smear campaign on JM and jkk, just insane 🫠 you know if solo fights were just name-calling it wouldn’t be as much of an issue, I don’t feel like some people understand the kind of damage these groups are doing and the lengths they go to. But we will just keep streaming and supporting and doing our best I guess 😭 same old same old, always something insane happening.

[momentomori24]

I don't believe liking immoral and downright evil characters says anything about you as a person, but I think acting like this definitely does.

"The HH fanbase will defend Valentinoto the moon and back" this and "Val is praised by a majority of the fandom" that, except said majority of the fandom fucking HATES that moth and fans have been harassed, had their art scribbled on to "fix" it, repeatedly called "rapist apologists" and "abuse romanticisers", get questioned or accused about condoning him irl, received graphic death/rape threats and are in general mistreated by the fandom. A Val cosplayer was mistreated and had a gun pulled on them IN REAL LIFE not even a year ago. Even the VA got repeatedly asked or assumed to be like the character he plays because "why else would he want to voice a rapist??" and told they deserve for choosing that role (fucking WILD btw). People that like Valentino as a character are the minority of the fandom, and even there NO ONE defends him. We all realise he's a disgusting individual whose actions shouldn't be defended in any capacity. What kinda bullshit lie is that?

I'm also in the Mouthwashing fandom, and it too has a bunch of issues. Infantilising Curly and minimising his actions, making Swansea to be better than he actually is and ignoring that he knew of the SA, people still debating or not realising that Jimmy raped Anya in the first place, shipping Jimmy and Curly (which isn't even a bad thing or a real problem but this person would see it that way), ect. But sure, conveniently don't bring that up. Anything for the Hazbin Hotel hate, right 💀

These next comments especially piss me off (nevermind how they're talking about an abuse survivor which is gross already). This might be a hot take and I don't care if that's the case, but I think people refusing to call Jimmy by name and excluding him from the cast is not show of a "good" fandom, actually. Jimmy has a lot more to him besides being a rapist. Rape culture, toxic masculinity, capitalistic exploitation, misogyny, male dominance-- there's sooo much more to explore and discuss about his character besides him being a rapist. And he's an incredibly disturbing character in a fucking horror game. If you can only refer to him by some stupid nickname (which takes away the seriousness of his character imo), ignore the significance of his role and themes in the story and the rest of his character and reduce him to a single trait that's BAD. That's not a good thing, and in fact, probably makes you worse than the people that do like his character because they can at least separate fiction and reality and not scrap well written disturbing characters for the sake of "comfort" or moral standing (again, in a horror game of all things). People shouldn't feel bad for liking Jimmy because he's a very good character, and ignoring that completely and acting like there aren't people who could like him... kinda sucks?

Moving over, Valentino is not and has NEVER been portrayed in a positive light in the show. I can't wrap my head around people that genuinely think that. Whenever I hear people say that the arguments I always see are "he shouldn't be attractive" and "he's just a cartoon villain" and "he acts silly and quirky even tho he's a rapist" among other things, and I don't think these people realise they're spouting eugenics bullshit and demonstrating that they don't know anything about his character simultaneously. No, Valentino isn't a "positive" portrayal of a rapist because he's attractive (way to tie morality to appearance btw). No, Valentino isn't a positive portrayal of a rapist because he acts goofy and funny and silly. Those traits are intentional and important to his character. Val is the Overlord of lust and depravity, hell's most famous pimp. His beauty is how he lures in unsuspecting sinners, and his personality is how he gains their trust and gets them to sell their souls for him to exploit (notice how Angel signed his soul away willingly). He's supposed to be appealing. He's supposed to be charming. He's entire persona is meant to be disarming. If he were like Jimmy or just a one-note unlikeable guy, his position in the show and his relationships with the characters wouldn't make sense, so he isn't. That doesn't make him a more positive portrayal or anything, it just means he's more fleshed out and written more complex than you want him to be. He's a very real depiction of an abuser, of their two-faced nature and how being attractive and charming to others doesn't make you less of an abusive monster to someone else. For context, I have been abused by someone extremely similar to Val, so his depiction feels very real to me and it's extremely tiring seeing a bunch of assholes who have probably not even seen the show or have been abused act like he's "romanticised" or "unrealistic" or "bad" simply because he was written by Vivziepop (who's ALSO an SA survivor like what is wrong with you 💀).

This is a broader point and not entirely related to this specific case, but we don't give people shit like this over people liking murderers and serial killers-- acting like all a sudden liking a rapist character says something negative about their writing or about the people that like them is INCREDIBLY stupid. People don't talk like this about Alastor and Vox-- who are both VERY despicable people. Both of them are also abusers among other horrible things, but they're not (or at least Alastor isn't) rapists so they're "not as bad". This is a sentiment I see all the time in both the fandom and hatedom whenever Valentino discourse comes back up, and this line of logic that rapists are a unique evil that can't be liked as characters in fiction but murderers and cannibals and serial killers are totally Ok is so dangerous and backwards. Liking evil characters says nothing about you as a person aside from the fact that you're a freak in the fun way. Liking evil characters but then going after others who do as well because you consider their character "too evil" and watering down the crimes of yours to justify liking them says a lot about you tho. Saying that the characters you like says something negative you in general does too.

We seriously need to stop bringing morality into fiction and saying that "normal" people wouldn't like certain immoral characters. We need to stop ostracising people for their "problematic" ships, proudly brag about ostracising them and justify it by calling them "weirdos". We need to stop saying villains are "badly written" because they're not written how YOU want them to be written, regardless of whether or not that opinion is valid (which in this case it isn't). We need to stop putting fandoms in some weird competition with each other about how characters are written and spit on people who actually enjoy them, are comforted by them or felt seen by them (gestures at the whole Angel dust situation barely a week ago). And honestly we need to stop giving attention to people like this, who spread a false narrative and kick others down for being fans of a media they don't like or know squat about for whatever reason. Who spread lies about the media or fandom in question in way that's blatantly in bad faith.

This crappy post is sitting a 17k while I'm typing this. The way people can just say ANYTHING about Hazbin Hotel and its fandom-- doesn't matter if it's valid or true or if they watched the show or know anything about the fandom at all, it just has to be negative-- and others will eat it up no questions asked needs to be studied at this point. We saw that in the months the show first aired. We saw that with the Angel Dust video. We're seeing this again here. I don't think we should be harassing anybody over fiction and in general (and needless to say don't harass any of these people) but calling out bad actors who pull shit like this more often and making it uncool to shittalk Hazbin Hotel and its fandom (and any fandom from unapologetically dark media where the people deal with enough bullshit already) for no reason and in bad faith is a change I'd be down with. Like, wash your mouth of its name and disappear into the shadow realm, goddamnit.

[semi-sketchy]

Okay so short comment on the first Dark Beginnings part

For the good, ANIMATION IS SO PRETTY GO;SDFBHKGSDZBIKG LIKE LOOK AT THIS AWESOMENESS AND HOW IT SNAPS AROUND SO WONDERFULLY IT IS A JOY TO THE EYES AND IN 4K SO YOUTUBE DIDN'T COMPRESS IT TO HELL AND BACK YOU CAN ADMIRE EACH FRAME

Also the SOUND DESIGN AND MUSIC??? It's so good. So detailed. So perfect.

and that's about it.

I admit, I'm a little saddened by it immediately snapping to the present. I know, it's to promote the game, but I just really wanted some time spent with Shadow and Maria on the Ark. We really have gotten so little of that in the games and with this being called "Dark Beginnings" I was thinking it would actually be a bit about Shadow's beginnings, not just the game's beginning. Maybe that's stupid of me to even think, but I wanted to see Shadow and Maria without it being another illusion!

Plus, yeah, you can tell Flynn is writing this.

And that kills a lot of my enthusiasm. Sometimes it's good! I thought a lot of this was good! But once in awhile there's a line that reminds you who the one writing is. If you like him, great! It's those little things that bother me and overall make me disinterested in the story of SXSG as a whole. I don't like his writing style so I can pretty well guess I won't like it in-game.

Also, I'm sorry, I still don't like Kirk's Shadow voice. He's a very good actor, but I don't like that particular voice for Shadow. I prefer a smoother voice and Kirk's is quite raspy. I watched this in both Japanese and English and it was a better experience in Japanese. I think if I eventually play SXSG, I'm gonna do it in Japanese. It's been that big of an issue for me. (and I'm someone who prefers the dub of Xenoblade 2! JUSTICE FOR AL WEAVER)

I don't know. Maybe I'm just being bitter, not really enjoying Sonic as much, but god do I want to be excited for this. I want to join in on everyone saying "this is gonna be peak" but I just can't.

[bbnibini]

This is probably just me starved for Solomon content, but I kept on wondering if the reason for Solomon's absence in the main story is intentional? In lesson 18 normal side story, Barbatos questions why Solomon suggested MC to go to the House of Lamentation when it's pretty obvious he's not taking their absence so well, and he said, it's the "mature thing" to do, causing the demon who is supposed to hate his guts to even worry about him.

In Lesson 11, we don't even have a choice to listen to him or side with him. MC was just given the option to give the book to Lucifer. In the later lessons, you don't get any options to decline the brothers when "it's about time to go back to Cocytus Hall".

The daily chats in NB have at least an explanation for this since you live together with him, but in the OG, he texts you the least amongst the other dateable characters. Which kinda contradicts what is explained on the daily chats in the first place because if you are away in Cocytus Hall for long periods of time because the brothers insist for you to stay with them longer, wouldn't that give him a reason to text you more?

I'm starting to think that Solomon is intentionally keeping his distance after all that happened in the main story. He loves you with all his heart, and trusts you enough to share a bit of his past with you, but after the past lessons, he may be at the stage where he's trying to...go back to his old self again. Where he doesn't rely on anyone as much. Where he can be depended on and be your most trusted ally and your dearest friend, but he must, at all circumstances, not show a portion of his heart again, no matter how much he loves the other person. That isn't to say he wouldn't reciprocate the same way, but he can only take what is given and should NOT expect anything more.

Because he's been proven right and right again when he finds out the hard way that people would only accept the "him" that would fit their narrative. That he was born unlike any other, so he must walk his path alone, even if it seems like the small intersection he found with you was the solace he needed to colour his jadedness. But that's all there is to it. You are just a small intersection. A short-lived dream containing his ideals and expectations. You would always be your own person, and he would rather have that because he loves you and he wants you to be happy.

Because you had a choice. And he knew you would never choose him. So he must silence the small part of himself that told him "He will never be alone again."

[0braoin]

I have to say that, even as a Star Fox fan, I found myself far less disappointed by the latest direct itself, and more disappointed at the complaints from fans over lack of new content. Every Direct that ends like this sends me back to when Star Fox Adventures was "just another Zelda clone", or when everyone was complaining about how unpolished Assault was, and even hearing about the devs of Star Fox Command allegedly receiving death threats via Facebook, how the motion controls in Zero were terrible despite being optional and how Zero itself was just a rehash of the franchise's only celebrated entry, and finally how the team's inclusion in Starlink was just a wasted cash grab.

Even with as much as I loved every single game, I can say that this isn't to say any of them are above criticism. But, if that's all you hear when the game comes out, when reviews and profits matter most, do we really deserve to be that disappointed after all? Because I don't think we do.

[fivequartersoftheorange]

What's great about the youngins who keep saying people 30+ shouldn't be in fandom is that we all get to sit back, relax and watch as the slow march of time eventually catches up to them and they too soon will be in their 30s until the cold hand of death lays its gnarled, leathery fingers upon their shoulder.

You bite the hand that feeds you young one. Who do you think created all that fandom space? And all those fics you devour?

[bibuckleykinard]

how many times do we need to learn as people that irony and hyperbole can be harmful because 'jokes' aren't easily distinguished from genuine thoughts and feelings until we stop rewarding people for speaking or posting about violence

like even if you're joking/don't actually believe that/think whoever you are insulting is bad/immoral/fictional therefore deserves it - ad hominem attacks always do more harm to the people who share those characteristic then the individual you intend to cause harm to or discredit

[saturnshari]

tiny fandom rant

thinking abt how being an Intellectual Brown woman isolates me from fandom experiences bc since i call out orientalism/racism against swana and my people in media that makes me too "anti" but the shit id be into and ship since i was 13 would land me 100ft deep into "proship" territory....

[vampire-caprisun]

As a pansexual its really gross and invalidating when I see posts about people being upset seeing Astarion with a female tav. It makes me feel like an imposter in the LGBTQ community myself because I tend to go for guys but dont really care too much about gender at all at the end of the day. I've honestly just started blocking anyone who says hes gay and only into men because I'm so sick of it.