#tolkiengateway

[quentafeanorians]

Am I the only one who absolutely hates the new layout of tolkiengateway? I appreciate the dark theme but my god, I can't find anything on there anymore, give me back clear divides between sections, give me back more differentiation between text... 😭

Sorry to whoever made it, I get the aesthetic, but I can't read it like this, it's such a struggle now 😩

Or am I being dumb? Is there any way to change the visual layout back or something? I couldn't find the option but hope dies last...

[sesamenom]

scrolling tolkiengateway and recognized @ten-thousand-leaves in the image credits??

[lendmyboyfriendahand]

I think Argon died at Alqualonde.

When the second host of the Noldor reaches Beleriand, they have a lot of grief. Those who died on the Grinding Ice are tragic, but easier to talk about. They died in pain and fear, but they were trying only to fulfill a promise and to seek a new home. Mourning Elenwe can be done in public, with no discussion of fault or her having deserved it.

Those who died fighting their own kin are harder though, especially as Fingolfin doesn't want to start diplomacy with new neighbors by mentioning such an evil deed. He's also too proud though to accept sympathy under false pretenses, even for the death of his son. Fingolfin couldn't stand listening to Cirdan say platitudes about the sea and Ulmo's mercy to drowned sailors, no matter how well meaning. So for a while, he simply doesn't mention his youngest son at all. Those who knew Argon know how he died; those who never met him think Fingolfin only has two sons.

("Two sons at least thous hast to honour thy words" - Fingolfin's own voice echoes bitterly in his head.)

Argon was bold, and headstrong. He saw a battle and charged into it, right alongside his big brother. So tall, he made an easy target. Maybe it was his own foolishness that got him killed, but not malice. He didn't even know why they was fighting.

Slowly, rumors begin to spread among the Sindar. They say the second host fought a battle before the rising of the Sun, nearly on the edge of the Sea. The host took losses, but did not let it deter them. Fingolfin's own son died, surrounded by enemies, a victim of his own bravery.

The battle was against orcs because who else would elves be fighting?

(Maglor is a storyteller first and foremost. A public gift to Fingolfin would be full of symbolism and double meaning between the two kings, but he can grant his uncle space to mourn.)

[sexiestfinweanpoll]

[hirazuki]

So, all usual concerns and subject matter aside, I think there is one very important aspect of Eöl's character that I rarely ever see touched upon, and that is the fact that he is, objectively, a horse girl.

Like -- my good sir, you live in the middle of what is, by all accounts, a dense, dark, magical forest with all sorts of winding paths and the tallest trees in Beleriand; it sounds like an absolute nightmare for any kind of hoofed quadruped to navigate (except perhaps deer and goats, but they are insane and therefore outliers, so they don't count). What do you need all these horses for??

He never really leaves home, other than occasionally to visit the dwarves; I can understand having maybe two or three horses, for travel and as backups. And yet, he has enough of them that -- with Maeglin on one, Aredhel on another, and himself on a third -- he can not only change his out for a fresh horse, but also have his pick of "the swiftest that he had," implying that, even with those three absences, there is still a sizeable group remaining at home in Nan Elmoth.

Clearly, there is but one answer here and, personally? As a horse girl myself? It explains so much about him.

[southfarthing]

been stuck on the same few pages for two hours trying so so so hard to understand what finrod is talking about 😩 ngl andreth is making more sense to me

ok I feel a little stupid so would appreciate some help 😩 from what my brain is gathering on this beautiful night at 1am–

finrod: you claim that you're from arda, where everything is mortal, but you were meant to be immortal? (is he talking about imperishable bodies beyond the end of arda? because otherwise aren't elves proof that you can have an imperishable body of arda? so the issue is more about men thinking they were never supposed to die ever rather than men thinking they were supposed to live as long as arda?)

finrod: the body and spirit of the children of eru must be in harmony. you must be in harmony now, with death and all, so you're saying your 'original state' of immortality was actually the one that was out of harmony?

andreth: uhh??

finrod: elf bodies and spirits are both of arda and bound to its fate, in harmony. men's bodies are of arda but their spirits are from elsewhere. (how then is this harmony if the spirit doesn't belong? harmony for only a brief time???) so the body dies like everything else in arda but the spirit isn't confined to arda; so isn't it better that the body is mortal so that the spirit can be released and go to its true home? that is true harmony. it would be disharmony if men's spirits were bound eternally to their arda bodies when they don't belong there

andreth: if that's the case, then that's disharmony – if men's spirits and bodies are doomed to be parted. so death must be unnatural. but I agree that men, like elves, aren't living fully unless their bodies and spirits are in a loving union. so death is bad because it parts the two.

finrod: oh!! so your traveller spirit is joined eternally to your arda body – they can't be fully parted or that would be evil. which means then that your spirit must take your body with it out of arda. so your spirit can uplift your body beyond the set bounds of arda - you have a big part in the master plan of the world in healing arda and maybe even continuing the music? so when you say you were destined for better things, is this because your outsider spirit knows this, has felt it from wherever it came from? you can heal arda through your death (which then means elves can live beyond the current state of arda?)

andreth: idk bro but (mentions the old hope about eru coming into arda to heal it)

finrod: oouuuuuuhgb we will hang out forever

[sesamenom]

so fun fact here! Foster's Guide to Middle Earth was published in 1971. Other Tolkien material was published as following:

1937: The Hobbit 1954-1955: The Lord of the Rings 1962: Adventures of Tom Bombadil 1971: Foster's Guide to Middle Earth (1973: Tolkien died) 1977: The Silmarillion 1978: Foster's Guide to Middle Earth (2nd Edition) 1980: Unfinished Tales 1983-1996: History of Middle Earth 1998: Roverandom 2001: Foster's Guide to Middle Earth (3rd Edition) 2002: History of Middle Earth Index 2007: The Children of Húrin 2017: Beren and Lúthien 2018: The Fall of Gondolin (2020: Christopher died) 2021: Nature of Middle Earth (edited by Hostetter) 2022: The Fall of Númenor (edited by Sibley) 2022: Foster's Guide to Middle Earth (4th Edition)

As such, the original version of the Guide to Middle Earth covers approximately 17.7% of Legendarium content by page count as of Jan 2025 (and actually predates both the Silm and Tolkien's death!), and should in no way be considered an accurate or comprehensive summary, as it has been significantly outdated since 1977.

The version previously referenced appears to be the 1978 Ballantine/Allen & Unwin 2nd edition (pictured here, ISBN 9780048030023) and therefore includes material only between 1937 and 1977 (21.5% of total page count), and has been considered outdated and/or in contradiction to published material since 1980. Above in bold are listed the Legendarium-related material not covered in the referenced copy.

Oropher and Amdír have existed in canon since 1980, and Imin since 1994. Since then, Oropher and Imin have additionally been referenced in NoME (2022), and Amdír as a name was referenced in HoME (1993). Comprehensive reference material updated in the past 30 years should include all three of them.

For some more up-to-date references:

Oropher (UT Index, NoME Index, Tolkien Gateway, Encyclopedia of Arda)

Imin (HoME Index, NoME Index, Tolkien Gateway)

Amdír (UT Index, Tolkien Gateway, Encyclopedia of Arda)

Holy shit… please…take this quiz…

[meadowlarkx]

grief and pride - embroidery for @tolkienekphrasisweek day 4, Gardening & Landscape Architecture! I was thinking about memory and how Elves might tell of particular places in adornments on clothing (imagining both of these designs on sleeves.)

First: Years of the Trees Fëanorian ornamentation, reminders of the Gardens of Lórien where Míriel lay, with Finwë's crest.

Second: Late First Age or Second Age Iathrim ornamentation, reminders of Menegroth and the First Kinslaying.

welcome to 'more photos and rambles at length'!!

Working on these little guys for a while I had time to think a fair amount about them. The concept of being literally clothed in one's sorrows feels very Elven and Tolkien to me. It's something about the long years and accumulating griefs, laying claim to and embodying them (powerful!), and the accompanying actions and grudges, and it's a thread that runs through both these groups. Fëanor is one of the first in the narrative to have this sort of memory/shadow on his heart, that of Míriel's passing. I love the similarities and connections between him and Míriel and the way she haunts the story, so I really enjoy the idea of Fëanor (and his sons!) reminding everyone of her absence subtly or unsubtly at every chance, including with their clothing--a mark of family loyalty which is also a nice fuck you to Indis and her children. Lórien is lush and verdant with golden flowers and mountain immortelle, don't @ me silvery tolkiengateway descriptions. I wanted this one to feel bright and vivid to echo the noontide of Valinor and the family's pride and brilliance. Finwë's crest got included in the design partly because it's less complicated than Fëanor's crest (shh), but also because I can completely see Fëanor making a(nother) claim to heirdom by wearing it.

Then of course he sets in motion greater horrors to remember. I am always thinking (@swanmaids has a great post about this) of the support Elwing canonically has in Sirion for her decision not to relinquish the Silmaril. And after seeing the 2nd kinslaying, it had to be a difficult, brave, potentially very controversial decision to hold on to it, but people are with her on this--I imagine motivated partly by real anger and grief over all they had lost and insistence upon memory, pride, dignity, identity etc. which probably remain with the few who survive the Sirion kinslaying too. And remembering Menegroth's beauty goes hand-in-hand with the grief--so I went for a bleaker look here, not the deep forest I usually picture (the 2 green vines, though, symbolizing in my head the surviving royal family/Peredhel!). This design being more of a picture of the place and less "abstract" was an attempt to gesture towards some cultural and stylistic differences in art, etc. I know this one isn't exactly a garden, but if we squint all of Doriath is an enclosed garden, so...!

Also here are the other pics. I'm imagining them bigger, but they are pretty little in real life!

[alexandra-scribbles]

Something that I never understood about Tolkien’s writings and the Noldor when everything is put into the timeline is… why didn’t the Noldor build their own ships?

According to the timeline for the year of the trees in TolkienGateway there’s a ten year gap (counted in solar years) between them swearing the Oath and going to Alqualonde.

What were they doing during all that time? Were they just… sitting in the darkness? How were they feeding themselves? Assuming the crops were not growing or you know… everything was dark. Ten years is a lot of time… they could’ve built their own ships, nothing as fancy as the teleri ships but rudimentary ones…. There is even a twenty year gap (again, solar years) between the swearing of the Oath and Feanor betraying Nolofinwe.

One would think that Feanor would’ve calmed down a bit in those two decades…. I just… this is one of the instances in which Tolkien was being bad at math isn’t it?

[sexiestfinweanpoll]

[polutrope]

Hello resident Daeron knower. I am... well I'm not actually writing anything with Daeron in it and in fact my thinking about Daeron is probably a form of procrastination, but, regardless, I was trying to figure out what we know of Daeron's appearance.

I see Tolkiengateway says that Daeron is tall, with dark hair and grey eyes, but I suspect this is one of the many times Tolkiengateway has just slapped on Tolkien's favorite descriptors to a character with no regard to canon.

I think the Lay of Leithian calls him "Dairon the dark" at some point, but that could be reference to hair, skin, eyes, personality, voice even, and I would not call that definitive proof of hair color.

Are you aware of any other hints at Daeron's appearance?

DAERON!!! A great guy to procrastinate on.

As a silver-haired Daeron truther, this question delights me. You're right: no canon on Daeron's hair colour, eye colour, and definitely not on his height.

(Unnecessary preamble:) The published Silmarillion says very little about him at all. His name has six index entries, two of which are just to remind us he's better than Maglor. Otherwise, he invented the Cirth, went to Mereth Aderthad, was Thingol's loremaster, and was the greatest minstrel (east of the sea) because he put his love of Luthien into his music. Also of course that he betrayed her meetings with Beren and then her intention to follow him, then wandered east after she went missing. Nothing about his appearance. (Sorry, I can't help being thorough with my guy.)

Lay of Leithian (1925-31) and Lay of Leithian Recommenced (c. 1950) give us a lot more characterisation but not much on appearance, either.

He is, as you say, "Dairon the dark with ferny crown" at line 500 (repeated in Recommenced, line 41 of 'Canto III Continued'), but at line 884 Thingol addresses him: "O Dairon fair, / thou master of all musics rare.' The latter does change to "O Daeron wise" in the 1950s rewrites, so if one wanted to argue that dark and fair refer to hair colour, then one might make a case that Tolkien was settling on dark for Daeron here. Not a strong case, and not definitive, but still.

As for his eyes, he has "fiery eyes" at line 841 and "his eyes were dark" at 1063. In both these cases I think they're pretty clearly intended as a reflection of his emotional state (pissed off) than the actual colour or hue of his eyes.

So, long story short, you're right: no canon on Daeron's appearance specifically, TG seems to be just slapping the general Teler/Elf look on him. Which, fair to assume, but not certain -- and I'll continue to cherish my silver-haired, dark-eyed aesthetic for him.

It is canonical, however, that he has lean and very skilled fingers:

When sky was clear and stars were keen, then Dairon with his fingers lean

and

Daeron the dark with ferny crown played on his pipes with elvish art unbearable my mortal heart. No other player has their been, no other lips or fingers seen so skilled, 'tis said in elven lore, save Maelor son of Feanor

Lay of Leithian Recommenced, lines 79-80 and 'Canto III Continued', lines 41-48

So. There's that 😉.

[hirazuki]

My favorite part of making Silmarillion art is running to look at the timeline of events to double check whether someone has their distinct scars/injuries/missing limbs yet or not.

[raointean]

RoP Celebration - Week 6

Minor Characters/OCs/Rairpairs

Now, I know what you're thinking. Arondir isn't a minor character and DEFINITELY isn't part of a rarepair (in cannon). Instead, I'm putting him in the oc category, since he's an original creation of the show. (Disclaimer, this is about 100% headcanon lol)

What we know

Arondir is a Silvan elf, whose people did not follow the valar even partway to Valinor.

Was born and raised in Beleriand (according to tolkiengateway. I think he could have been born in Middle Earth and moved to Beleriand as a child, but for the sake of this post, we'll roll with it)

Was born in the first age or before

Worked as a grower (farmer? I'm assuming?) before becoming a soldier, likely during the War of Wrath

In short, we don't know a lot about him... so I'm going to make it up!

Arondir's family is originally from the Ered Alwed (Mountains of Prosperity)

It was a beautiful land with rolling hills and flowing rivers, not far from the Sea

The land was also sheltered on three sides by mountains

They got bored soon enough, however, being the only intelligent life in the area

Arondir had parents, an elder sister, three elder brothers, a grandfather, an aunt, two uncles, and a handful of cousins who went west

They decided to travel west to more populated places and eventually wound up in Doriath

They settle down as farmers growing fruits and ninniachloth flowers (his sister, however, makes her way into Menegroth and gets a reputation as an excellent caregiver. She is eventually given the privilege of caring for King Dior's children)

This is the world Arondir is born into, just before the start of the first age; peace, plenty, a loving family, flourishing orchards, lush berry fields, and forest clearings full of crystalline flowers

That world is destroyed when Arondir is around 550 years old (young, though fully grown, for an elf)

The kinslayers come and sack Menegroth and destroy the surrounding residences and farms

Arondir's sister is killed defending her charges

His father and grandfather are killed defending the farm

His uncles, aunt, and cousins attempt to flee and are never seen again

Two of his brothers were serving a mandatory stint in Dior's guard and are lost in the chaos

His third brother, coming across the ruins of their home, challenges the Feanorians, and loses

Arondir hides

He has never been one for violence; as a boy, he always made someone else kill the chickens when it came time for dinner

And so, like a coward he hides

He survives

He joins the other survivors on their long march to the Havens of Sirion and makes his home beside the riverbank

Children begin to call him "strawberry man" because he grows them in the rocky soil near his hut and gives them out to any passing little one

He tills the soil, works the fields, makes friends with his fellow refugees, and for a while, Arondir starts to believe he can have peace in this little corner of the world

The war continues brewing in the north, but if he keeps to himself and keeps his head facing the earth, it cannot reach him

It cannot reach him... until it does

The kinslayers come again, not even 40 years after their first assault, to claim what is "theirs"

But Arondir does not hide this time

They have taken enough from him already

This time, he fights

Once again, he survives

Once again, his people are scattered

Once again, they have lost their ruler (on wings of flight, this time, instead of death)

Unlike in the past, however, Arondir does not wait around for the enemy to come to him

Instead, he finds the nearest camp of High-King Gil-Galad's host and volunteers himself as a soldier

@the-southlands

[southfarthing]

To anon maybe this is a cop out but read the wiki or invest in fandom works first. I knew pretty much the entire timeline of events before I picked up the actual text, mainly sourced from friends, meta and fanwork which was the gateway to start reading it and I think let me appreciate the language and storytelling more because I didn't have to take it in all at once. It's not a traditional book it's a collective mythology which can make it really overwhelming. I know some people are gonna hate this but I care a negative amount about spoilers. Finding something you're pre invested helps as a gateway. Kinda like how sitcoms have one character spin off in another show so they can grab another audience.

^ @ silm anon!

[transsexualhamlet]

did they really change the picture for fëanor's article on tolkiengateway because i made a joke about it being shirtless on ao3 what the fuck