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Am I the only one who absolutely hates the new layout of tolkiengateway? I appreciate the dark theme but my god, I can't find anything on there anymore, give me back clear divides between sections, give me back more differentiation between text... 😭
Sorry to whoever made it, I get the aesthetic, but I can't read it like this, it's such a struggle now 😩
Or am I being dumb? Is there any way to change the visual layout back or something? I couldn't find the option but hope dies last...
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scrolling tolkiengateway and recognized @ten-thousand-leaves in the image credits??
#not art#not silm#ten-thousand-leaves#tolkiengateway#uhh. i hope they asked first?#but anyways it was kind of surprising to see#huh
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having a new hyperfixation and a new ship and desperately wanting to write a g/t fic of them but also really wanting to wait til i consume more of the media and really get into these characters heads. like it’s not enough to write a g/t fic about them, i need to analyze these guys to such an insane degree so i can write 100% in character reactions to finding a tiny/being a tiny. and like it’s not that i’m worried readers will find it OOC. this accuracy is all for me baybee. i need to be able to read this in five years when i know every single fact abt this show, and still find it in character. i need to absorb their psyches. like if i don’t spend a dozen hours combing the wiki and finding out their most niche traits and utilize it for a fucked up fearplay oneshot then like, what’s the point
#no one will care if its OOC but i will. i will care. i will caaaare so so bad#thats why i never published any of my tolkien fic. its 25% writing and 75% notes from tolkiengateway#ANYWAYS. i just finished season 3 of xfiles and i am going insane. 3 seasons in 3 weeks#i need a tiny scully fic. and a tiny mulder fic. and i may be working on these#i think im gonna write it bc im in that New Hyperfixation High and then edit it when im more comfy w the characters#just. my god. these bitches r nuts. and even more nuts TOGETHER. i need them to kiss and beat the shit out of each other ‼️#i havent had an OTP like this since i was a teenager. i feel like im 15 and analysing johnlock again
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#Sexyelfpolls#silmarillion#maglor#Celegorm#image of Celegorm is by Tuuliky and is on TolkienGateway but is not the main image on his page#round 1
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So, all usual concerns and subject matter aside, I think there is one very important aspect of Eöl's character that I rarely ever see touched upon, and that is the fact that he is, objectively, a horse girl.
Like -- my good sir, you live in the middle of what is, by all accounts, a dense, dark, magical forest with all sorts of winding paths and the tallest trees in Beleriand; it sounds like an absolute nightmare for any kind of hoofed quadruped to navigate (except perhaps deer and goats, but they are insane and therefore outliers, so they don't count). What do you need all these horses for??
He never really leaves home, other than occasionally to visit the dwarves; I can understand having maybe two or three horses, for travel and as backups. And yet, he has enough of them that -- with Maeglin on one, Aredhel on another, and himself on a third -- he can not only change his out for a fresh horse, but also have his pick of "the swiftest that he had," implying that, even with those three absences, there is still a sizeable group remaining at home in Nan Elmoth.
Clearly, there is but one answer here and, personally? As a horse girl myself? It explains so much about him.
#eol#silmarillion#tolkien#silm musings#also having 'many horses' as tolkiengateway puts it goes a long way in his favor with me#(and probably with aredhel too XDD)#i was editing some writing and realized that i unintentionally peppered in horse girl eol throughout the entire thing lmao#and subsequently realized that i've never really seen anyone talk about it or incorporate it anywhere so#here i am releasing it out into the world#do with it what you will#i'm just doing my fandom duty XD#(and procrastinating bedtime. for absolutely no good reason ^^ )
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been stuck on the same few pages for two hours trying so so so hard to understand what finrod is talking about 😩 ngl andreth is making more sense to me
ok I feel a little stupid so would appreciate some help 😩 from what my brain is gathering on this beautiful night at 1am–
finrod: you claim that you're from arda, where everything is mortal, but you were meant to be immortal? (is he talking about imperishable bodies beyond the end of arda? because otherwise aren't elves proof that you can have an imperishable body of arda? so the issue is more about men thinking they were never supposed to die ever rather than men thinking they were supposed to live as long as arda?)
finrod: the body and spirit of the children of eru must be in harmony. you must be in harmony now, with death and all, so you're saying your 'original state' of immortality was actually the one that was out of harmony?
andreth: uhh??
finrod: elf bodies and spirits are both of arda and bound to its fate, in harmony. men's bodies are of arda but their spirits are from elsewhere. (how then is this harmony if the spirit doesn't belong? harmony for only a brief time???) so the body dies like everything else in arda but the spirit isn't confined to arda; so isn't it better that the body is mortal so that the spirit can be released and go to its true home? that is true harmony. it would be disharmony if men's spirits were bound eternally to their arda bodies when they don't belong there
andreth: if that's the case, then that's disharmony – if men's spirits and bodies are doomed to be parted. so death must be unnatural. but I agree that men, like elves, aren't living fully unless their bodies and spirits are in a loving union. so death is bad because it parts the two.
finrod: oh!! so your traveller spirit is joined eternally to your arda body – they can't be fully parted or that would be evil. which means then that your spirit must take your body with it out of arda. so your spirit can uplift your body beyond the set bounds of arda - you have a big part in the master plan of the world in healing arda and maybe even continuing the music? so when you say you were destined for better things, is this because your outsider spirit knows this, has felt it from wherever it came from? you can heal arda through your death (which then means elves can live beyond the current state of arda?)
andreth: idk bro but (mentions the old hope about eru coming into arda to heal it)
finrod: oouuuuuuhgb we will hang out forever
#i just. are men's hroar and fear in harmony or not!!!!!!!!! so what is hte truth..............#athrabeth#sunny reads the silm#mp#(realised later that tolkiengateway has a summary but i still have some unanswered questions lmao but i dont have the brain to#actually put my questions into words)
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so fun fact here! Foster's Guide to Middle Earth was published in 1971. Other Tolkien material was published as following:
1937: The Hobbit 1954-1955: The Lord of the Rings 1962: Adventures of Tom Bombadil 1971: Foster's Guide to Middle Earth (1973: Tolkien died) 1977: The Silmarillion 1978: Foster's Guide to Middle Earth (2nd Edition) 1980: Unfinished Tales 1983-1996: History of Middle Earth 1998: Roverandom 2001: Foster's Guide to Middle Earth (3rd Edition) 2002: History of Middle Earth Index 2007: The Children of Húrin 2017: Beren and Lúthien 2018: The Fall of Gondolin (2020: Christopher died) 2021: Nature of Middle Earth (edited by Hostetter) 2022: The Fall of Númenor (edited by Sibley) 2022: Foster's Guide to Middle Earth (4th Edition)
As such, the original version of the Guide to Middle Earth covers approximately 17.7% of Legendarium content by page count as of Jan 2025 (and actually predates both the Silm and Tolkien's death!), and should in no way be considered an accurate or comprehensive summary, as it has been significantly outdated since 1977.
The version previously referenced appears to be the 1978 Ballantine/Allen & Unwin 2nd edition (pictured here, ISBN 9780048030023) and therefore includes material only between 1937 and 1977 (21.5% of total page count), and has been considered outdated and/or in contradiction to published material since 1980. Above in bold are listed the Legendarium-related material not covered in the referenced copy.
Oropher and Amdír have existed in canon since 1980, and Imin since 1994. Since then, Oropher and Imin have additionally been referenced in NoME (2022), and Amdír as a name was referenced in HoME (1993). Comprehensive reference material updated in the past 30 years should include all three of them.
For some more up-to-date references:
Oropher (UT Index, NoME Index, Tolkien Gateway, Encyclopedia of Arda)
Imin (HoME Index, NoME Index, Tolkien Gateway)
Amdír (UT Index, Tolkien Gateway, Encyclopedia of Arda)
Holy shit… please…take this quiz…
#silm#legendarium#not art#oropher#imin#amdir#tolkiengateway is the most accurate/comprehensive reference for characters due to it being constantly updated#i've heard good things about guide to middle earth as well but it would need to be in the correct edition#and of course neither are fully definitive due to there still being unpublished manuscripts#(though probably not of significant difference or volume)
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Hi! Lovely blog. I was wondering if "Eye of Mordor" is canonical from Tolkien's literature? I seem to not be able to find any reference to it and was wondering if you took it from his lore.
Hello. Yes, it is. Let me cite three examples from the LOTR books. The first one is from the fifth chapter of the third book of The Two Towers:
‘Ah! now you are asking much,’ said Gandalf. ‘The little that I know of his long slow story would make a tale for which we have no time now. Treebeard is Fangorn, the guardian of the forest; he is the oldest of the Ents, the oldest living thing that still walks beneath the Sun upon this Middle-earth. I hope indeed, Legolas, that you may yet meet him. Merry and Pippin have been fortunate: they met him here, even where we sit. For he came here two days ago and bore them away to his dwelling far off by the roots of the mountains. He often comes here, especially when his mind is uneasy, and rumours of the world outside trouble him. I saw him four days ago striding among the trees, and I think he saw me, for he paused; but I did not speak, for I was heavy with thought, and weary after my struggle with the Eye of Mordor; and he did not speak either, nor call my name.’
Then the other two are from Return of the King. The first one is from the tenth chapter of the fifth book, and the second from the first chapter of its sixth book.
But against this Gandalf had spoken urgently, because of the evil that dwelt in the valley, where the minds of living men would turn to madness and horror, and because also of the news that Faramir had brought. For if the Ring-bearer had indeed attempted that way, then above all they should not draw the Eye of Mordor thither.
There he [Sam] halted and sat down. For the moment he could drive himself no further. He felt that if once he went beyond the crown of the pass and took one step veritably down into the land of Mordor, that step would be irrevocable. He could never come back. Without any clear purpose he drew out the Ring and put it on again. Immediately he felt the great burden of its weight, and felt afresh, but now more strong and urgent than ever, the malice of the Eye of Mordor, searching, trying to pierce the shadows that it had made for its own defence, but which now hindered it in its unquiet and doubt.
This is one of the fewest known names of Sauron, of which does not appear on his article on tolkiengateway, only simply as 'The Eye.' One of the great things about some names of his are their ambiguity. Saying 'Eye of Mordor' does not explicitly refer to the entity behind the Eye, which fuels its cloak of secrecy and sinister mystery. As I've hinted in some posts before, I prefer gray areas when it comes to comparing extremes of black and white.
Thanks for the ask.
#anon#ask#great question#Eye of Mordor#Eye of Sauron#Mordor#Sauron#JRR Tolkien#Tolkien#LOTR#Lord of the Rings#The Lord of the Rings
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On the oath of Feanor
Strap in for a long rambling post!
I've spent the last few days going down the rabbit hole of Bret Deveraux's blog - I'd already read his posts on the battle of Helm's Deep and the Siege of Gondor which I enjoyed immensely (I love analysing things I like and thinking about them from new angles if it's done from a friendly perspective even if it uncovers some faults (the faults in this case are mostly in the movies not the books)), this time I went in from the direction of Game of Thrones (I especially liked the posts on how the Dothraki hold up when compared with the Mongols and other real world steppe nomads - short answer, not at all) and found this post on how oaths and vows worked in the medieval times and before (ancient Rome and Greece) which got me thinking about the oath of Feanor.
Firstly, Tolkien (having of course worked thoroughly with medieval literature), really wrote in all the traditional components:
a) saying what you will do (this swear we all: death we will deal him ere Day's ending who findeth keepeth etc the silmarils (I took the text from tolkiengateway, I'm aware there's several different versions but didn't want to get into it that deep)). It's also common to name yourself in the oath which they do: it's clearly stated the relevant parties are Feanor and Feanor's kin
b) naming the godly party who is overseeing your oath (our word hear thou, Eru Allfather! and later calling upon Manwe and Varda as witnesses (I assume it's also witnessed by all the elves present, witnesses are important))
c) naming the price you will pay if you break your oath (in essence cursing yourself)(to the everlasting darkness doom us if our deed faileth)
(Another thought i just had on the wording of this particular version is if you remove the extra meat, the bones of this oath is they swear to kill anyone who keeps the silmarils from them (not just by holding them to yourself but also by casting away - the only way to be near a silmaril and not get entangled in this oath is to return it to Feanor's kin asap) and to pay the price (eternal darkness) if they fail in this task. There is no clause to absolve them of this failure through death for example (dying would be failure and result in eternal darkness?) so if you go with the idea that actually they just went to the halls of Mandos and could return from there, unless they are freed from the oath, it would absolutely still be in effect both in death (if the dead have agency - and there is presedence in the dead men Aragorn calls upon to fulfill their duty even from beyond the grave - whose very crime is breaking an oath!) and afterwards upon their return.
Thus the trap really is set and it made me think if all our modern thought on if they could have found this or that loophole or done this instead of that or just not fulfilled their oath is approaching this from the wrong perspective.
People believed in their gods. People believed in oaths, though saying belief here is perhaps the wrong word. An oath is basically a contract with a god as one of its parties and people truly did believe the god held them to it (I would imagine even more so in Middle Earth in an era where gods are literally right there and the question of belief in them is not relevant). Unless Eru themself releases Feanor and his kin (Manwe and Varda are just witnesses not the parties to whom the oath is bound) this is it. There are no loopholes I can see. And in-world people would know this and expect them to keep the oath, oaths and keeping them is on what the whole vassal system works for example. Forswearing an oath other than bringing divine punishment upon you makes you untrustworthy to the extreme (which is worse - being a kinslayer or forsworn? Either would make you a pariah I imagine).
"You swear an oath because your own word isn’t good enough, either because no one trusts you, or because the matter is so serious that the extra assurance is required. That assurance comes from the presumption that the oath will be enforced by the divine third party. The god is called – literally – to witness the oath and to lay down the appropriate curses if the oath is violated. Knowing that horrible divine punishment awaits forswearing, the oath-taker, it is assumed, is less likely to make the oath." (from the blog post)
If the oath is broken, you are breaking one of the systems on which the world functions (being able to trust someone who swears an oath of loyalty for example, knowing that this is not something anyone can simply back down from and go oh no I changed my mind actually) and if you break it and nothing happens? What does that say about the gods? For the gods' honour to remain intact they also must rain punishment upon you or all other oaths where they have been named come to question. I am not a feanorean apologist (okay I am but I'm not saying that kinslaying is good actually) but in-universe the other people around them would know and I imagine expect them to keep their oath (which once again has no back doors! no death we will deal them ere day's ending unless we like them and they actually do deserve a silmaril) and yet they do not deal death to everyone who holds a silmaril right away. They do hold back.
(This lead me down a line of thought of what if what's driving them mad there, as at least fandom likes to interpret it, is not the oath itself, what if it's the not keeping the oath? Because they are for a while there not keeping it (that they did nothing while Luthien held a silmaril is a big deal actually). Idk it's a subtle difference there but somehow it makes sense to me as an idea: what if the oath itself is not an evil entity whispering in their minds yearning to be fulfilled or whatever, it's the not acting upon it though the clauses are met - they are testing the patience of a god and of godly retribution. And whether Eru Iluvatar wants to be the enforcer of such an oath? Does Eru get a choice? (The blog post brings up that "in the literature of classical antiquity, it was also fairly common for the gods to prevent the swearing of false oaths – characters would find themselves incapable of pronouncing the words or swearing the oath properly" but Eru here has not stopped them nor sent some sort of divine message saying no I will not keep you to your oath, not until the very end.)
All this to say that it's hard for us in the modern world with a modern mindset to put ourselves in this space of mind. For us an oath is not the cornerstone of society, it's not something we believe in. We get a few oaths or vows here and there - swearing upon the bible to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth (at least they do that in American dramas), marriage vows, I recently encountered a soldier's oath of loyalty from WWI - are these still a thing? But they are just words to us, words you can break without divine consequences. Our words matter less to us in this way.
We think automatically that the honourable thing would be to break the oath and you know not go to war against innocent people (although honour is another category we don't put much faith into any more. We think of goodness but that's not the same thing). But I think in-world it really is a much harder dilemma because breaking an oath is about the least honorable thing you can do. And you are cursed. The oath doesn't need to be an evil entity like the One Ring for it to matter immensely and have great power. The oath itself doesn't need to be like an evil spell that affects the people who took it. The weight of it, the maddening distressing quality of it, can just be the dilemma, the eternal questioning it forces you into - to do horrible things but keep your word, your honour (you could argue the upholding of your word is the most important thing you have - even if you lose all worldly possessions your word's trustworthyness can't be taken from you unless you break your word yourself)(but can you keep your honour by doing something dishonorable?) and your literal safety from divine punishment or break it and save lives for the price of your own and if divine punishment doesn't kill you, being able to exist in the society. When your word, your oath, can be broken, how could you be trusted in literally any situation? (As a side note from the blog: "In the ancient world you might try to mend fences by consulting an oracle as to how to expiate the guilt of a broken oath (to be clear, you are mending fences with the offended god, not the mortal you made the agreement with)" - I now crave fics where the Feanoreans do decide to forswear the oath and are not like idk immediately swallowed by eternal darkness so they go on a wild escapade of Making It Up To Eru). In any case this is peak tragedy material - like prophecies that fulfill themselves in the effort to avoid them oaths too are meant to be inescapable. And the First Age is definitely a tragedy.
To end, a quote from the end of the blog post stressing something the author brings up often because we as modern people tend to struggle with it:
"People in the past generally believed their own religion. One of the most common – and most dangerous – pitfalls I find myself helping my students to navigate around is this one: assuming that because we don’t believe a given religion, no one of any sense at the time could have either. This is of course, when you think about it, obviously untrue. Moreover, it reduces people in the past from complex intelligent humans with agency to dummies who just didn’t know their stupid religion was stupid (it wasn’t, they weren’t).
What many of these examples of bungled oaths show is a kid’s understanding of how swearing and vowing works – they are little more than ‘pinky-swears.’ But societies in the past where these rituals were common believed they were effective – meaning that the ritual of oath-taking made the promise so given more trustworthy, more binding, more dangerous to break.
///
A formal oath, properly uttered and secured with appropriate sacredness, was a powerful, binding thing. These are people, after all, who thought the divine retribution on the other end of breaking that oath was very real. Even if we don’t believe that, we should take their faith seriously – if for no other reason than failing to do so often renders their behavior into nonsense."
#tolkien#tolkien meta#feanor#and his oath#oath of feanor#going full poison kuzcos poison the poison for kuzco here#there was something more i wanted to get to but this post has been in an open browser tag for like a month#i thought i'd post it and if i remember what the extra thought was i can do a vol 2
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grief and pride - embroidery for @tolkienekphrasisweek day 4, Gardening & Landscape Architecture! I was thinking about memory and how Elves might tell of particular places in adornments on clothing (imagining both of these designs on sleeves.)
First: Years of the Trees Fëanorian ornamentation, reminders of the Gardens of Lórien where Míriel lay, with Finwë's crest.
Second: Late First Age or Second Age Iathrim ornamentation, reminders of Menegroth and the First Kinslaying.
welcome to 'more photos and rambles at length'!!
Working on these little guys for a while I had time to think a fair amount about them. The concept of being literally clothed in one's sorrows feels very Elven and Tolkien to me. It's something about the long years and accumulating griefs, laying claim to and embodying them (powerful!), and the accompanying actions and grudges, and it's a thread that runs through both these groups. Fëanor is one of the first in the narrative to have this sort of memory/shadow on his heart, that of Míriel's passing. I love the similarities and connections between him and Míriel and the way she haunts the story, so I really enjoy the idea of Fëanor (and his sons!) reminding everyone of her absence subtly or unsubtly at every chance, including with their clothing--a mark of family loyalty which is also a nice fuck you to Indis and her children. Lórien is lush and verdant with golden flowers and mountain immortelle, don't @ me silvery tolkiengateway descriptions. I wanted this one to feel bright and vivid to echo the noontide of Valinor and the family's pride and brilliance. Finwë's crest got included in the design partly because it's less complicated than Fëanor's crest (shh), but also because I can completely see Fëanor making a(nother) claim to heirdom by wearing it.
Then of course he sets in motion greater horrors to remember. I am always thinking (@swanmaids has a great post about this) of the support Elwing canonically has in Sirion for her decision not to relinquish the Silmaril. And after seeing the 2nd kinslaying, it had to be a difficult, brave, potentially very controversial decision to hold on to it, but people are with her on this--I imagine motivated partly by real anger and grief over all they had lost and insistence upon memory, pride, dignity, identity etc. which probably remain with the few who survive the Sirion kinslaying too. And remembering Menegroth's beauty goes hand-in-hand with the grief--so I went for a bleaker look here, not the deep forest I usually picture (the 2 green vines, though, symbolizing in my head the surviving royal family/Peredhel!). This design being more of a picture of the place and less "abstract" was an attempt to gesture towards some cultural and stylistic differences in art, etc. I know this one isn't exactly a garden, but if we squint all of Doriath is an enclosed garden, so...!
Also here are the other pics. I'm imagining them bigger, but they are pretty little in real life!


#tolkien ekphrasis week#TEW Day 4#silmarillion#silm#miriel#míriel#feanor#fëanor#doriath#sirion#elwing#etc etc.#i mean--i was thinking of thranduil full disclosure but#thranduil and maglor <3 dressing up the barbies... but !#embroidery#my art#my posts#the silmarillion#menegroth#lórien#estë#este#feanorians#peredhel#there i think now i've captured every possible tag lmao#those are birch & sycamore on the doriath one! i don't know anything about ecology i only know colors#proudest of the little needle and thread for miriel
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#SexyElfPolls#Celebrimbor#Amras#Silmarillion#picture of Amras is by KuraiGeijutsu and is on TolkienGateway; I wanted a pic I didn't have to edit for him to be solo in#round 1
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Something that I never understood about Tolkien’s writings and the Noldor when everything is put into the timeline is… why didn’t the Noldor build their own ships?
According to the timeline for the year of the trees in TolkienGateway there’s a ten year gap (counted in solar years) between them swearing the Oath and going to Alqualonde.
What were they doing during all that time? Were they just… sitting in the darkness? How were they feeding themselves? Assuming the crops were not growing or you know… everything was dark. Ten years is a lot of time… they could’ve built their own ships, nothing as fancy as the teleri ships but rudimentary ones…. There is even a twenty year gap (again, solar years) between the swearing of the Oath and Feanor betraying Nolofinwe.
One would think that Feanor would’ve calmed down a bit in those two decades…. I just… this is one of the instances in which Tolkien was being bad at math isn’t it?
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Author Q&A with DrakeShadeDShadowHeart, 3/1/2025
@shujinkomononobe offered his work - The Big Adventures of a Little Dwobbit Prince to start off our Bagginshield Book Club Member Author Appreciation March Madness Month celebration, and he also answered a few questions for us!
What name would you like us to use and what are your pronouns? Lemuel, and I use he/him
How long have you been in the Book Club, and how long have you been writing fanfiction? What fandoms have you written for? I've been here since 7/26/2024 according to discord and according to AO3, 04 Aug 2024. Mostly Tolkien stuff.
What do you think of as your writing style - are you a plotter or pantster? A mix of both? I plot scenes in my head and I pantster my way till I get to it.
What’s your favorite genre/trope to write? Currently my favorite is the Established Relationship ones
Is there a genre/trope you haven't written as much of yet that you're excited about for future writing? Amnesiac lover
Was there an idea or scene that inspired this story? Tag belalubroski and Shurik cause the dwobbit discussion we had inspired this entire thing… Also Peregrine's gift exchange event and dex's prompt.
Did you do any special research before writing the work? Thank the Valar tolkiengateway exist. And.. MATH! I HAD TO CALCULATE HOW DWOBBIT AGES AND THE CHARACTER AGES!
Did the story change from how you originally envisioned it? Were there scenes or plot elements you had to cut out? I was expecting Sam and Frodo to be close in age… I was wrong… I WAS SO WRONG! I did an entire plot line about their love story when it was supposed to be short and sweet where they grow up to be childhood sweethearts but then I turned Frodo to have Durin stubbornness that he must inflict himself punishment for loving someone!
Do you have a favorite line or moment from the work? “Papa… Mama… I’m so sorry it took so long for me to come back. So many things have happened, and I, I’m so sorry. I wish you both were here to see me now, but I know Yavanna is taking care of you both in her gardens. I went on an adventure like you wanted me to, Mama. And I finally got married like you wanted me to, Papa. I can only hope you’re proud of the person I’ve become. I… I miss you both.”
Join the Bagginshield Book Club Discord Server
#bagginshield book club#fanfic author appreciation#bagginshield#the hobbit#bilbo baggins#thorin oakenshield#the hobbit fanfiction
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To anon maybe this is a cop out but read the wiki or invest in fandom works first. I knew pretty much the entire timeline of events before I picked up the actual text, mainly sourced from friends, meta and fanwork which was the gateway to start reading it and I think let me appreciate the language and storytelling more because I didn't have to take it in all at once. It's not a traditional book it's a collective mythology which can make it really overwhelming. I know some people are gonna hate this but I care a negative amount about spoilers. Finding something you're pre invested helps as a gateway. Kinda like how sitcoms have one character spin off in another show so they can grab another audience.
^ @ silm anon!
#silmarillion#anonymous#replies#hmm personally i'd recommend wiki or tolkiengateway or smth like that but i wouldnt start with a fanfic? i feel it'd be better to expose#yourself to canon before branching out? personal preference!
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Hello resident Daeron knower. I am... well I'm not actually writing anything with Daeron in it and in fact my thinking about Daeron is probably a form of procrastination, but, regardless, I was trying to figure out what we know of Daeron's appearance.
I see Tolkiengateway says that Daeron is tall, with dark hair and grey eyes, but I suspect this is one of the many times Tolkiengateway has just slapped on Tolkien's favorite descriptors to a character with no regard to canon.
I think the Lay of Leithian calls him "Dairon the dark" at some point, but that could be reference to hair, skin, eyes, personality, voice even, and I would not call that definitive proof of hair color.
Are you aware of any other hints at Daeron's appearance?
DAERON!!! A great guy to procrastinate on.
As a silver-haired Daeron truther, this question delights me. You're right: no canon on Daeron's hair colour, eye colour, and definitely not on his height.
(Unnecessary preamble:) The published Silmarillion says very little about him at all. His name has six index entries, two of which are just to remind us he's better than Maglor. Otherwise, he invented the Cirth, went to Mereth Aderthad, was Thingol's loremaster, and was the greatest minstrel (east of the sea) because he put his love of Luthien into his music. Also of course that he betrayed her meetings with Beren and then her intention to follow him, then wandered east after she went missing. Nothing about his appearance. (Sorry, I can't help being thorough with my guy.)
Lay of Leithian (1925-31) and Lay of Leithian Recommenced (c. 1950) give us a lot more characterisation but not much on appearance, either.
He is, as you say, "Dairon the dark with ferny crown" at line 500 (repeated in Recommenced, line 41 of 'Canto III Continued'), but at line 884 Thingol addresses him: "O Dairon fair, / thou master of all musics rare.' The latter does change to "O Daeron wise" in the 1950s rewrites, so if one wanted to argue that dark and fair refer to hair colour, then one might make a case that Tolkien was settling on dark for Daeron here. Not a strong case, and not definitive, but still.
As for his eyes, he has "fiery eyes" at line 841 and "his eyes were dark" at 1063. In both these cases I think they're pretty clearly intended as a reflection of his emotional state (pissed off) than the actual colour or hue of his eyes.
So, long story short, you're right: no canon on Daeron's appearance specifically, TG seems to be just slapping the general Teler/Elf look on him. Which, fair to assume, but not certain -- and I'll continue to cherish my silver-haired, dark-eyed aesthetic for him.
It is canonical, however, that he has lean and very skilled fingers:
When sky was clear and stars were keen, then Dairon with his fingers lean
and
Daeron the dark with ferny crown played on his pipes with elvish art unbearable my mortal heart. No other player has their been, no other lips or fingers seen so skilled, 'tis said in elven lore, save Maelor son of Feanor
Lay of Leithian Recommenced, lines 79-80 and 'Canto III Continued', lines 41-48
So. There's that 😉.
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RoP Celebration - Week 6
Minor Characters/OCs/Rairpairs
Now, I know what you're thinking. Arondir isn't a minor character and DEFINITELY isn't part of a rarepair (in cannon). Instead, I'm putting him in the oc category, since he's an original creation of the show. (Disclaimer, this is about 100% headcanon lol)
What we know
Arondir is a Silvan elf, whose people did not follow the valar even partway to Valinor.
Was born and raised in Beleriand (according to tolkiengateway. I think he could have been born in Middle Earth and moved to Beleriand as a child, but for the sake of this post, we'll roll with it)
Was born in the first age or before
Worked as a grower (farmer? I'm assuming?) before becoming a soldier, likely during the War of Wrath
In short, we don't know a lot about him... so I'm going to make it up!
Arondir's family is originally from the Ered Alwed (Mountains of Prosperity)
It was a beautiful land with rolling hills and flowing rivers, not far from the Sea
The land was also sheltered on three sides by mountains
They got bored soon enough, however, being the only intelligent life in the area
Arondir had parents, an elder sister, three elder brothers, a grandfather, an aunt, two uncles, and a handful of cousins who went west
They decided to travel west to more populated places and eventually wound up in Doriath
They settle down as farmers growing fruits and ninniachloth flowers (his sister, however, makes her way into Menegroth and gets a reputation as an excellent caregiver. She is eventually given the privilege of caring for King Dior's children)
This is the world Arondir is born into, just before the start of the first age; peace, plenty, a loving family, flourishing orchards, lush berry fields, and forest clearings full of crystalline flowers
That world is destroyed when Arondir is around 550 years old (young, though fully grown, for an elf)
The kinslayers come and sack Menegroth and destroy the surrounding residences and farms
Arondir's sister is killed defending her charges
His father and grandfather are killed defending the farm
His uncles, aunt, and cousins attempt to flee and are never seen again
Two of his brothers were serving a mandatory stint in Dior's guard and are lost in the chaos
His third brother, coming across the ruins of their home, challenges the Feanorians, and loses
Arondir hides
He has never been one for violence; as a boy, he always made someone else kill the chickens when it came time for dinner
And so, like a coward he hides
He survives
He joins the other survivors on their long march to the Havens of Sirion and makes his home beside the riverbank
Children begin to call him "strawberry man" because he grows them in the rocky soil near his hut and gives them out to any passing little one
He tills the soil, works the fields, makes friends with his fellow refugees, and for a while, Arondir starts to believe he can have peace in this little corner of the world
The war continues brewing in the north, but if he keeps to himself and keeps his head facing the earth, it cannot reach him
It cannot reach him... until it does
The kinslayers come again, not even 40 years after their first assault, to claim what is "theirs"
But Arondir does not hide this time
They have taken enough from him already
This time, he fights
Once again, he survives
Once again, his people are scattered
Once again, they have lost their ruler (on wings of flight, this time, instead of death)
Unlike in the past, however, Arondir does not wait around for the enemy to come to him
Instead, he finds the nearest camp of High-King Gil-Galad's host and volunteers himself as a soldier
@the-southlands
#arondir#ropcelebration24#ropsummer24#headcanon list#bullet point fic#silvan elves#beleriand#the southlands#doriath#sirion#second kinslaying#third kinslaying#sorry this is so late#i wrote it a month ago and thought i had posted it#and i was looking for it today to find some info for tolkien of color week#and i searched the event blog and my own blog but i couldn't find it#...until i looked in my drafts#*facepalm*
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