#timeline: s4 / s5 / any time

[aprillikesthings]

okay I know I've talked about it....multiple times...on other posts, but the timeline of Adora and Catra's interactions from s3 to s5 fucking kills me because like

so the portal happens, they're REALLY affectionate in that fake reality, then it falls apart and Catra is furious, blaming her for everything while corrupted, and Adora punches her

and I wonder how much they both thought about how flirty they were at first, in the portal reality? that the reason Catra was so furious was Adora forcing her to confront the fact that it's fake--that Catra wanted to stay in that reality longer.

like DO THEY BOTH THINK ABOUT THAT??? do they lie awake at night sometimes and think about it??? (well, past Catra's literal nightmares in which Adora asks her why she pulled the switch)

what is the story they've each told themselves about what happened in the portal reality, when they were so affectionate? "she didn't mean any of it"? cool, YOU still did.

I just imagine both of them thinking "well shit. I thought I'd gotten rid of all those feelings. eh, it was the portal. not me." BZZT. WRONG.

anyway. a few episodes into s4 is the next time they see each other, they don't even fight directly, Catra tries her old taunting-but-flirting thing and Adora refuses to engage.

and that's it.

for like. an entire season of the show. so about a year. A YEAR.

Catra ends up on the ship with Glimmer, they reminisce and we see Catra smiling while talking about Adora.

but the next time they even hear each other's voices is Catra over the comms saying she's sorry. and trying to save Adora's life. ;_;

[pomegranate]

Hi I'd like to ask about the mash timeloop theory is it so that they repeat every day as a timeloop or is it a loop that lasts 11 years? I know that there are some jokes that could be taken as them timelooping but is there like a primer of sorts with the rules of it? Does every character loop or only one of them?

Hi anon! Oh this is a fun question and thank you for giving me an excuse to talk about MASH and time loops. First off, I will say I don't think there's any one interpretation of the time loop idea that has any merit above others - some people see the time loop as being the act of re-watching MASH over and over, putting Hawkeye back in Korea after finishing GFA. The time loop is also inspired by the series' lack of continuity, which can be easily explained by MASH airing at a time when continuity was not considered for a long-running television series. The Korean War was a 3 year war and MASH aired over an 11 year period. Other people don't necessarily subscribe to the time "loop" theory but rather just that time itself is wonky in the MASH universe, which is why I like my dear friend @mashbrainrot 's "time trauma" tag that covers any sort of questionable references to time throughout MASH.

Because the thing is - the show starts off with a time abnormality. The second shot in the pilot has the text "KOREA, 1950 / a hundred years ago" - meaning the pilot is addressed to viewers in 2050, which is an interesting idea to consider. But does the text fit with the time loop theory? It doesn't necessarily feel like it's part of a "loop" but it's still noteworthy, considering this is how the series starts.

Throughout the show, we have one-liners about the length of time that the MASH surgeons have spent operating. Frequently they liken their time in the O.R. to an eternity or a lifetime, and if we want to take a Doylist approach to these references, it's just the MASH writers using hyperbole to stress how these surgery sessions are all the same, one after another, dragging on and on. But the time inconsistency comes up in other ways, like the episode "A War For All Seasons" - a season 9 episode which inexplicably takes place between New Years 1951 and New Years 1952. It doesn't make sense timeline-wise if you look at the other dates given throughout the series before this point, but the writers weren't thinking about previous seasons when they wrote it because that is not how episodic television worked at the time. And then you have stuff like Henry & Potter having kids/grandkids of different ages, depending on the episode. Potter has his first grandchild in s4 but in s5 "Dear Sigmund", he says he's got a granddaughter about the same age as a patient who is approximately 7. There is absolutely zero point in trying to figure out a "realistic" timeline for MASH, in the end. It was a television show made during an era where episodes couldn't be rewatched endlessly and continuity wasn't really a big deal. It was enough that characters like Henry, Trapper, Frank and Radar get referenced long after they'd left the show, but there was no "show bible" and no long-standing plan for how the series would turn out.

WHICH IS WHY it's fun to play with the idea that a time loop is at play; maybe the loop resets every time a significant character leaves the 4077th (this was someone else's idea but I can't remember who at the moment I THINK maybe Kit (@nedlittle)?) or maybe it resets when you as a viewer restart the show. Or maybe it resets in other little moments; maybe it's not one continuous loop but a series of loops throughout the series. I don't think there's one agreed-upon theory when it comes to the MASH time loop but I do encourage everyone to check out Helen's time trauma tag to see some really great posts about the concept AND share any ideas of your own about time wonkiness within the MASH universe! (ALSO there are two great videos on the timeloop concept that i will reblog following this post)

[rist-ix]

I have a question for you what do you think of the quote unquote age gap between Bloom and Valtor?

I had to do alot of research to understand Bloom age when I started to like this ship better than Mr cheater. So here's a brief information dump:

Bloom is 16 in the first episode and its confirm her bday is December 10 (we don't know the the exact year when each girl was born only the fact Stella is the oldest by that logic Bloom is the second youngest out of the group) when we get to season 3 it is confirmed that the girls is in their 3rd semester so that makes Bloom 19 at point. Valtor's age we do not know however I'm going to say at most early 20s from what we know Valtor working with a younger Griffin before he got Popsicled.

Here comes the tricky part. In s4 the girls just finished their semester and graduated making them 20-21. Up until s5 where Nicklodeon had to reboot their age making them 16 again. Flashforward to s8 and that makes Bloom age 19 if you are following the reboot or 23 if you do not follow the reboot. Since we don't know how long Valtor been frozen his mental age is up for debate.

For me personally I don't see Sparxshipping as an Edward and Bella situation as Edward was aging naturally during his years while Valtor was frozen and couldn't age naturally but only mentally.

Okay okay first of all! Your Bloom math checks out and I just realized that I for some reason always thought Bloom is 18 in s3. Which is still possible, I think, I just dont know why I assumed that. Actually no, it works, if she is 16 in s1 she is 17 in s2 and 18 in s3, but we dont know a lot about how the school years work in Magix so I'm gonna jot her down as 18-19 for the remainder of this post.

Still dont know how I passed math btw.

Anyway. Valtor's age is where the real mystery is at. We've got two possibilities in my opinion.

1. He's pulling the ageless immortal card.

My personal go-to for fics and discussions. Love me some 300 year old mommy issues. He has too much practice being a messy bitch, there's no fixing this man folks.

Evidence: There's a flashback showing him with Griffin as a tween: she looks MUCH younger, he looks exactly the same. Unless he also stole the secret magic of the world's most potent anti aging cream, or Griffin's proximity to Faragonda just aged her by three more decades, he does not age.

2. He is the age he looks.

Which, in my humble opinion, would not put him anywhere near twenty. That is a grown man. He's not college age, unless you count college professors under that word. Even if I were good at guessing ages the very stylized art style would throw me for a loop, but im gonna say 40s, give or take. Look at Avalon, look at Codatorta, look at King Radius if u must. That is the age range we're looking at.

Evidence: I dont have any. We're ballin'. I guess it's never explicitly stated he's immortal, which you'd think would be big enough of a deal to mention. If u got something feel free to let me know.

That being said, the Winx Club Wiki page for the canon timeline (ha, good one) puts the time of Valtor's creation in a rough time frame from "Over 17 years before season 1" to "Under 100 years before season 6". So he could technically be anywhere from 17-97, though I'm not sure the upper limit is as reliable as the lower one, given the check-list format of the website. So make of that what you will.

Now that we've got the question of age out of the way, lets get to the age gap. I have no idea what the situation in twilight was to be honest, so I cant compare that.

Realistically, there's at least a decade between Bloom and Valtor. Possibly two decades and change. And that is just from visible age, we can add a few centuries on top of that if we're sticking with the immortal bit. I'm gonna be gonest, I dont think being frozen for 17 years will make a whole lot of difference here.

If you find that icky, which is fair, you can always change that for fics tho! Either turn him into a twenty year old or put Bloom in her milf-era, the options are endless. Personally, I think the age difference is half the fun though, and also the least of their issues. When you're off making out with the objectively worst person in history, wether he's too old for her isnt gonna rank very high on people's list of concerns.

[spopsalt]

So… I was on the wiki. And I found this.

Here’s the video link btw.

https://youtu.be/U1627KxmKM4?feature=shared

So… In the video, they try to celebrate Adora’s 16th birthday, and say that it takes place not anywhere near here actual birthday, hence it being a surprise.

So if it’s true that every season is a year (even though S2 and S3 feel more like one season rather than two…) We can also assume Catra and Adora are around the same age, though Catra is confirmed to be younger. We’re not sure how much you her though. Could be a few months, could be a couple years. But for simplicity, let’s say they’re about the same age. We do the math, and… Here are Adora’s canonical ages.

S1-15 years old

S2-16 years old

S3-17 years old

S4-18 years old

S5-19 years old

Yikes. I always thought maybe she was about 17 in S1. But… Yeah, it’s bad. And depending how old Catra is compared to Adora, Catra could possibly be only 17 by the end, meaning she could have been a minor throughout. After all, two years isn’t that noticeable at times. Just look at ATLA and Owl House. Aang and Toph are about two (biological, I know Aang is technically 112) years younger than other characters who are about 14-15, but it’s not that noticeable. And Owl House has Hunter at 16, Willow at 14-15, Luz and Amity at 14, and Gus at 12-13. Apart from Gus, they all look to be the same age. So like I said, Catra could be a few years younger. And that’s not even getting into the fact we don’t have a frame of reference for any of the other characters besides Frosta. (Just think, Frosta is the same age at the end of the show that Adora was at the beginning!) And again, I personally would like to think S2 and S3 are the same year since they feel like the same season and we’re released in relatively close proximity iirc, so I’d personally like to adjust the age timeline by about a year, ending it at 18. But that’s me, so it’s whatever. My point is, after all this time we finally have a canonical age for Adora. And buddy, it’s not looking pretty for all the creepy fans. But it never really was pretty with those creeps.

That makes it worse- Here I was thinking them being 17 in season one was bad, but nope! Turns out they were teenagers for the majority of the show! What is with Catradora fans and sexualizing minors? I don't get it, why can't they just like a ship without sexualizing it for 2 seconds especially when it turns out the people in said ship are teenagers for the majority of the show?

[ray-is-they]

Hi! Welcome to my blog!

INTRODUCTION PAGE!

Hello, my name is Ray!

15 years old / minor

I'm Pansexual

My pronouns are They/Them

Hobby is I write fanfics, I draw stuff, I watch some other fandoms that I like!

I luv SpicyNoodles n Shadowpeach(also FreeNoodlespigsyxtang)

You guys probably came from tiktok who I'm also known as @ray_is_they

"Princex Ray Non-Royal blood"

My BOUNDARIES!

No:

-nezha x [someone] sorry but no for me

-nsfw/rape/sexualizing

-MACAQUE/SWK x MK

-no critisizing my art/fic writing I only share when I share

OK:

-I am okay with Fluff and Gore or any angst.

-I'm good with talkative ppl because they cool.

-If you wanna DM me I'll just have to make sure we have good stuff going along

-I am a SpicyNoodlesShipper its ok to talk stuff about SNS with me :3

-if you wanna talk stuff about lores or anything included to my work I am happy to talk abt it/or if others not included to my work i am also happy to talk abt it

-art requests are fine by me just don't overfill it

-mention me if there is something important related to my work or something else

-calling me Ray or Octi is fine but if you call me Bud or Kiddo I'm fine w it

About my information:

I do digital and traditional art and I mostly do them just for fun, I write fanfics when something random comes into my mind, I share some lores if I could [my ask box is open if you want to ask something anonymous/user], I do my editing on tiktok!

MY HEADCANONS FOR THE CHARACTERS:

Mei: AroAce|Sometimes Sapphic

Mk: Gay/Transmasc

Redson: Genderfluid/Bisexual

Pigsy: Bisexual

Tang: Gay

Sandy: Queer Platonic

Sun Wukong: Gay

Macaque: Demisexual

Nezha: AroAce

SHIPS:

Sandy x Hunstman = SilkTea [for somereason-]

Pigsy x Tang = FreeNoodles

Sun Wukong x Macaque = ShadowPeach

Mk x Redson = SpicyNoodles

Mk x Mei [not much but briefly] = GoldenDragon

Mei x Redson [platonic] = DragonFruit

Mei x Mk x Redson = Chimera [not much but it's cute tho]

YEP-

ALTERNATE UNIVERSES I'VE CREATED!

The Noodle Boy- SPICYNOODLES ANGST AU S4-S5 TIMELINE

-CREATED IN MAY 1, 2023

-Redson Screentime [he left the celestial realm than fight alongside with Ne Zha]

-Him and Mk had chemistry with each other so this implies more hits to his soul

Successor Who?- FORGOTTEN TIME

-CREATED IN AUGUST 22, 2023

-A world without Mk, A world with no 'Successor' a world where the seemingly supposed hero Xiaotian doesn't 'exist' practically

-Redson is stuck from the wish he regretted

SPECIAL THANKS:

From Discord! Drawn by BUNZ!

[I LOVE EVERYTHING TGE ART IS JUST SO MWAH TYSM FOR DRAWING MY OC :>]

From Discord! Drawn by Lynn!

[I REALLY APPRECIATE THE GIFT AND LOVE DOING ROLE SWAP AU! I LOVE THISS]

[ilikekidsshows]

Hello again. :)

Thank you for answering my ask, I never thought it would gained traction and I hope no salter would come to you. ( ;A;) Also want to thanks people who give their input along the way, it sure is interesting to see and there's some point that I... Maybe give out some detail too vaguely, such as when I said the timeline of my fic is post s5.

I think my story is a canon divergent that only follow canon up to some episode in s4, the change started in Hack-san. So basically Cat Noir is started to doubt Ladybug because while she did apologize, her apology is actually about the secret identity not about her leaving Paris and send subtitute without telling him first hand even after that, he keep finding Ladybug either become jumpy or outright avoiding him whenever he want to talk. The turning point is in Ephemeral where he find out Ladybug's plan which involved Viperion and make him asked her about everything but she keep avoid giving him an answer, instead saying "I'm doing this to protect you" without further explanation and he end up leaving the team until S4 finale and saw Monarch announcement. While he did come back to help her, he keep his distance because he doesn't trust her as much as before. And more change happened in s5 plot like he'$ not Marinette's boyfriend because he doesn't actually /that/ close to Marinette (whatever the canon want to say) so even if he knows Marinette is into him in Glaciator 3 (I forgot the actual episode name) , he never say or do anything as Adrien, he also never left in Kwami Choice (which vexing him further because again, Ladybug just leave like that) and he participated in the finale battle (because what in the world canon? That's like the most important battle for him) and definitely there's nothing like sentimonster human thing. (Felix is actually Adrien's twin and he's just veeeerrry jealous of Adrien's life because in his eyes Adrien's life is much better. Adrien never know about him having a twins though)

So yeah, my fic is post s5, but it's a canon divergence.

And one of the biggest reason why I never considered Luka as the leader is simply because Ephemeral exist. If he or Rena become the leader then it's no use, both of them are like the biggest Marinette supporter and Luka is the guy who doesn't even mind to be called "Adrien" by his girlfriend and mindlessly following her problematic plan so I don't think he'll even mind if Marinette want to take the lead despite of him being the leader because Marinette ftw! ;)

---

No worries, Fic Anon, the post didn’t get any salt. I feel like people are weird when it comes to the mental image of “class clown” Cat Noir in a leadership position, like a leader can’t also be a funny dude and has to be grimly serious all the time. It’s just another cliche of leadership characters that they have to take themselves incredibly seriously because people think otherwise they can’t be taken seriously by others.

The idea that Cat Noir wouldn't be respected as a leader can't be proven correct or incorrect because, if the canon did approach such an angle, it would make Cat Noir look bad to prop up Marinette. We, frankly, don't know what the rest of the team thinks about Cat Noir, because the Miraculous writers want Adrien to be dependent on Marinette in everything, so he doesn't even get to bond with the team. Not that Ladybug does much more than order them around either. If there's anything in the canon hinting that Cat Noir isn't respected, it's Ladybug’s side of the banter on occasion being more demeaning.

I will say that plenty of Japanese media actually does go the route of making the team leader a bit of a clown, and it doesn’t make their teammates not listen to them. The Super Sentai, Battle Shounen and Magical Girl Warrior genres are full of wise-cracking team leaders who participate in some buffoonery. Yu Yu Hakusho has the least serious team members Yusuke and Kuwabara act as leaders depending on the arc and Kakashi is one of the biggest funnymen in Naruto, for example.

I totally agree that Adrien and Marinette are actually not as close as the show insists they are. My biggest peeve is the show insisting Marinette knows Adrien the best out of all the other characters when 1) she constantly misunderstands Adrien and 2) Adrien genuinely doesn’t feel like he can be himself around her. The latter point is why I hate the retcon that Adrien fell in love with Marinette in the Statue Scene(™) in Puppeteer 2, when that’s the episode where he explicitly states that he didn’t think Marinette considered them friends. That episode is one of the biggest examples of Marinette just not understanding Adrien, another one is the insult of giving who she thought was him the Dog Miraculous.

Yeah, now that you bring it up, Ephemeral makes Luka look like the most untrustworthy stooge of them all, worse than even Nathalie. At least Nathalie disapproved of Gabriel’s shitty plans even as she didn’t stop him, Luka is just: “Whatever you say, Marinette, you perfect goddess who can do no wrong. Are there any other breaches of trust you want me to commit, my queen?”

Your fic sounds like a total banger right up there with the currently only Miraculous fic I’m keeping up with, Perfect Paradise. If you end up posting, at me or send me a link or something, I’d love to give it a read.

[tournament-of-ninjago]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

I FORGOT ABOUT THE POLL OF THE WEEK I'M SO SORRYYYY

thanks @thenindroidtherapist for the poll idea! ninjago has too many seasons so i'll split them into two separate polls. this week's one is from the og (wilfilm) era :)

[all-pacas]

how do you think cameron and chase would handle a surprise/unplanned pregnancy?

panic and grim resignation

HAHAHa okay so. Okay. So. First of all: Cameron is, weirdly? Naturally? the only character on this show to state anti-abortion views. She and House have a talk about this.

So, unfortunately, that means: if there's a baby, Cameron is keeping it. Chase, unsurprisingly, never espouses any feelings on the matter. Personally, I don't think he'd have any issues with abortion for a number of pragmatic reasons that overrides any Catholic Guilt, but it doesn't matter: Cameron isn't getting rid of it.

As to what happens next, that depends a lot on where in their timeline we are. I've joked about them mutually babytrapping one another after Dibala and… yeah, but the timing really matters here. They actually seem to have talked about having kids, if Chase's "in ten years, we have three kids" little fantasy is worth anything, and they both idealize love and marriage (in slightly different ways) enough that I think they both assume you must have kids once you're married: if it happens early enough in their marriage (boy, an AU where Cameron is already pregnant when Dibala happens…), or late enough in their dating period, I think… they're okay with it. Mostly. It's something they both kind of expect will happen.

I mean, I absolutely think they're both going to internally freak the fuck out. Cameron idealizes marriage and relationships and at the same time is terrified of commitment in a very specific way: she doesn't seem to have any problem with the act of being committed, but you take away her exits and lock her in and she worries. You can't cut and run from a baby. Chase, meanwhile, clearly holds onto all his trauma and resentment and isn't in steady contact with his sister who he raised: his "idealization of relationships" is more in the vein of he desperately wants intimacy and attachment and To Be Loved, but has no idea what it looks like. Throw a baby at him, and I'm not sure he'd be any less scared: what if he screws this one up, too?

If this happens early enough in their dating, it's even worse. By the end of S5, even though Cameron has a freak out or two left in her, they've been together 2 years and basically live together: Cameron's issues are less about wanting to marry Chase and more about worrying he doesn't want to marry her; she's not actively looking for an exit ramp, she's just scared of not having one (if that distinction makes sense). But, like, FWB era pregnancy? Disaster. Neither of them are ready or willing. S4 era pregnancy? Hard to say (in large part because we don't see them), but considering their first subplot in S5 is "Chase feels shut out of Cameron's life because she doesn't let him in her house," I'm not sure they'd handle it well either. I sadly can see them both falling into an "a baby will fix our relationship!" trap, but at least by the end of S5 their relationship is fairly solid. As good as it ever got, anyway.

[feministsouthpark]

South Park Filler Guide - Season 24

Link for Seasons  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

S24E1 The Pandemic Special is CANON

I considered this to be a filler episode, since none of it really gets addressed ever again, however there is one point I realized which makes it essential: This is the introduction of the covid arc. Many fans do and even Trey usually forgets this, but South Park isn't just a copy of real life. It's a fictional story, in which some things happen the same way as they do in real life. But many years from now, the covid phenomenon won't be as self-explanatory as at the time this episode special was made. So for inner world building, this is actually build up of a virus that will stay to be a major plot point for the remainder of the season. S24E2 South ParQ Vaccination Special is CANON

The boys (except for Kenny) break up, Margaret Nelson passes, Herbert returns as a teacher and for some reason has a fourth-wall breaking moment that really feel like South ParQ building towards its ending. S24E3 Post-Covid is CANON

First, I'm going to address this, that despite the different networks and what the DVD might tell you, this is part of the season by production code and by cohesive narrative as well. And yes, it is canon, part one of the culmination of the whole show. S24E4 The Return of Covid is CANON

So this is it. South Park has ended. We have our grand finale. Of course the destination of any series is canon. Wait, do I hear more episodes coming up? Well, now we just have to see how those will fit into the timeline of this story.

SPOILER-FREE RUNDOWN

S24E1 The Pandemic Special is CANON S24E2 South ParQ Vaccination Special is CANON S24E3 Post-Covid is CANON S24E4 The Return of Covid is CANON

CANON counter:

S1: 9 out of 13   S2: 3 out of 18   S3: 6 out of 18   S4: 10 out of 17   S5: 8 out of 14   S6: 11 out of 17  S7: 6 out of 15  S8: 4 out of 14  S9: 8 out of 14  S10: 4 out of 14  S11: 4 out of 14  S12: 8 out of 14  S13: 3 out of 14  S14: 7 out of 14  S15: 6 out of 14  S16: 2 out of 14  S17: 4 out of 10 + a highly lore based game  S18: 8 out of 10  S19: 9 out of 10  S20: 10 out of 10 S21: 7 out of 10 + a highly lore based game + 2 DLCs S22: 9 out of 10 S23: 8 out of 10 S24: 4 out of 4

Overall: 158 out of 312 Personal notes: We have the second ever season to be considered fully canon! However this really is the conclusion of the story. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that more episodes exist after this, but one has to wonder how they will pull of a second conclusion, once the show is actually ending.

[erikiara80]

New theory: I'm going to connect the Will with brown eyes to birthdaygate

I like the idea of Vecna stealing memories, and it's possible that in S5 the people Will loves forget him, or that he forgets them, but I think there might be another explanation about his birthday.

Ok, Will having brown eyes is only mentioned in the S1 Missing poster, and we only see them in the shed scene.

So, I wonder if they focus so much on his eyes in S2 not to show that he's possessed, but that there is a timeline where Will's eyes have always been brown.

It would be a smart way to hide the truth in plain sight; letting people believe that the color has changed because of the possession.

But S3 should make us doubt about that explanation. In fact, Billy's eye color never changes. There's even a close up of his eye at the end of 3x03 (here), when he's already controlled by the Mind Flayer. I think they wanted us to notice the difference between the two Williams.

But back to birthdaygate. They said that in S5 they included many S2 ideas and that we should definitely rewatch it. One of the reasons could be the mention of Will's birthday and the I forgot your birthday card in 2x04.

I talk about the Will the Wise scene here

Theory: Maybe the Will with brown eyes was born on March 22, but not the Will with hazel eyes, the one we've seen in every season, including S4. If that's true, it means that nobody forgot his birthday in S4.

We can't be sure, because we don't see what color Will's eyes are when Joyce says 'Do you know what March 22nd is', or when she looks at Will the Wise (and the birthday card). But I find it interesting that Will's birthday is mentioned in the only scene in the entire show where his eyes are brown. The same color mentioned in the Missing poster. And that we only see the birthday card in S1, the season when they make the poster, and then in one shot in 2x04

The card in S1

And in 2x04

They even show Hopper's confusion here, because he doesn't see anything. In fact, in all the other shots/episodes the drawing is on another wall.

Before Joyce looks at the drawing

After she looks at it

The drawing in 2x01 and 2x05 (Will's eyes, always hazel)

I have questions tho. For example. The birthday card. Is it foreshadowing of Will's family forgetting his birthday, or about something important in the past that we'll see in S5?

Also, S4 starts with the mention of someone stealing thoughts. A hint about Vecna stealing the memory of the birthday, or about him spying on Max and the other kids?

The 'Be sure to specify birth date' could also have two meanings. That people forgot Will's birthday, or that it's not on March 22, like we thought.

Then in 4x08 Brenner says that One takes everything from his victims, including their memories. I know he didn't kill Will in S2, but he was literally in his mind. And I'm sure that line is important.

But let's say that the theory is correct and Will's birthday, the Will with hazel eyes, is not on March 22. Then when is it? I think it would make sense if it was just a few days later.

And maybe they told us when it is. March 29, Billy's birthday. The hint could be the fact that his name changes to William. Also, interesting that Not forgotten... If Will's birthday is really on March 29 then it's true, nobody forgot it.

So, maybe the Will with hazel eyes was born on March 29, and the Will with brown eyes was born on March 22.

And IF Will's birthday is on March 29, it makes also sense that Mike doesn't give him any present. Maybe that's why he was supposed to stay in Cali for a week. March 22-29. He wanted to be there for Will's birthday.

But then he sees Will at the airport and his brain stops working. Joyce goes to Russia, El gets arrested, and people start shooting them. They were all busy trying to stay alive and bury agents in the desert. I get that they didn't mention the birthday, lol

Also, this means that Will's birthday would be at the beginning of S5! Before the time jump, when he can hear Vecna again, when he can have visions of other birthdays and Lonnie. In the middle of the apocalypse.

It would make less sense imo if the birthday was before Spring Break, because I'm sure Mike would at least mention it and say that he was sorry he wasn't there.

So yeah,maybe I'm wrong, but seeing Will's birthday in S5, while they have to hide from soldiers, monsters and an angry mob would be epic.

Tagging you, @lilitblaukatz I'm curious to know what are your thoughts on birthdaygate

[chirpsythismorning]

You can't expect people to take you seriously if you're not providing any proof? If Will and El are twins and Joyce and Hopper are their bio parents, why don't any of them know about it and why haven't there been any hints about it? I'm not even trying to be rude here I just haven't seen any evidence. Let alone strong evidence

I've gotten a few confused asks about this theory and how it just doesn't make any sense..?

I'm not saying that I completely understand the ins and outs of how it works, in fact I'm still completely immersed in theorizing and not being certain of anything! Quite frankly, I don't understand it (how time works/the rules of the game), though I think that's necessary because otherwise everyone and their mother would have guessed this surprise by now if it was any more obvious than it already is.

I also just feel kind of bad about spoiling what could possibly be going down, especially bc this would clearly be a series long surprise.

I've been theorizing for months now with @shippingfangirl013 about this. It started with us sharing thoughts about Twelvegate and just sort of piecing together s4 lab scenes and then eventually going back to the beginning to see what we might have missed from this new lens, that being the possibility that Will is Twelve. And that's when we realized A LOT of stuff has been overlooked from the very beginning, which provides not only answers to certain questions we had, but also brings forth even more questions that we wouldn't have come up with, had we not looked back further into the details in the first place.

She has a bunch of posts that are severely underrated in regards to this whole theory, so I urge you all to check those out:

Twelvegate Theory: Drowning in the Quarry and Will & El (Part 1)

Twelve Actor Resemblance to Young Will Byers

Stranger Things S5 Conglomerate Twelvegate Theory (Part 1)

Conglomerate ST S5 Theory Parallels

Also be sure to keep an eye out because she has some really big brain analysis in the works that you dont want to miss. I can honestly say she plays a big role in why I feel fairly confident about this theory, because I myself didn't really believe it at first. But now, after everything I've seen, it's kind of hard not to.

Even if you don't like this the idea of this theory or just simply don't believe the evidence presented that you've seen thus far, at the very least looking at this could expand your ability to look further at other details on the show and even pick up on evidence of your own. I find that more often than not, knowing about the existence of certain overlooked details allows you to find even more overlooked details that others missed.

For the sake of your doubtful ask, and for anyone else who isn't even considering this theory because it seems too far fetched, I'm going to share some of my favorite unhinged evidence for whatever the hell gate we're calling this...

But first, here is some basic context for the chaos that follows.

Something important to note, is that we don't meet Hopper, El or the Byers the night that Will went missing. We only met Will and the party. Instead they saved the rest of the main character's introductions (his family, mind you) for the following day, after Will had gone missing. This also means they saved their introductions for AFTER the big power outage that happened that night right before he disappeared.

I find this interesting because this choice allowed them to make those introductions feel arguably 'starting point'/reset-like (like in a video game).

You'll also note there is a 'Pizza One' box in that first scene when the party is in Mike's basement playing their campaign, moments before that power outage. This could have been a hint that the very start of the pilot episode at the Wheelers may very well be the OG timeline, that we've been straying from ever since. And so let's say hypothetically, if we had met Hopper, El and the Byers BEFORE that power outage, whose to say their lives wouldn't have looked slightly different...?

The first time we are introduced to Hopper is in the scene directly after the opening credits, which was right after the scene of Will disappearing in the shed. Hopper is sleeping on the couch in his trailer, wearing both his daughter's blue bracelet and his watch. We also get 3 references to keys in this scene (a 2 ft long key decal in the literal opening shot). And if that's not enough, what follows is Hopper getting ready for work, putting a yellow pen in his pocket near a painting of an owl, before grabbing his keys and walking out the door.

The first time we are introduced to Joyce (the Byers), follows directly after the scene with Hopper, where Joyce just so happens to be looking everywhere for her keys, Where the hell are they?, followed by finding them on the couch, despite already looking there previously with no luck (interesting Hopper was sleeping on the couch with Willel symbols on his wrists only moments before this hmm). We then get a shot of Joyce showing concern over Will not eating breakfast, followed by scolding Jonathan for forgetting to wake Will up, adding I've told you this a thousand times, before she walks past an owl on the wall in the hallway and opens the door to another owl on the wall in Will's (unoccupied) room...

Let me just say, for the sake of this fictional family, I hope to god they haven't been through this thousands of times. Though I fear they might have. At least more than once...

There are a lot, A LOT of scenes that go down like this. As the show progresses, we get a lot of references to time passing and confusion and impatience and it almost feels like they themselves know deep down this isn't their first rodeo, and yet they're still playing along bc how exactly can one question their reality?.

The problem right now for me, is that I don't understand the rules of the game. How does time work? What even is the goal of the game (to win, I presume?)? Maybe Vecna's having to keep reseting the time loop, to get the results he wants, and over time he's getting closer and closer to the results he wants, but it will ultimately (predictably) lead to him failing once and for all in the final season, when all is inevitably revealed?

Hypothetically, if this is all some game/pocket universe Vecna has thrown our core characters into, essentially surrounding them with 'fakers', then how do we know what is/isn't real? Or I guess whether or not we're in a timeline/loop either closest to, or furthest away from the original timeline? That's why it's hard for me to go further in terms of definitively piecing everything together time wise. Not only that, but we also don't even know for sure what Vecna wants from Will and El, truly.

But I do think that a lot of the answers to the truth are hidden in plain sight.

If you're genuinely curious, I encourage you to rewatch the show for yourself to see if you can pick up on things! Be sure to keep an eye out for keys and owls in particular. Also, El's flashbacks of Mama/the rainbow room might prove to be important... like, literally slowing down and pausing and screenshooting every single frame level important...

Who knows, you might even stumble upon a completely different undiscovered theory in the process!

On that note, here is just a slice of my favorite evidence in regards to this theory, that will hopefully open your mind to the possibility:

When Hopper asks about Lonnie's whereabouts, Joyce insists TRUST ME HE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. They made sure to keep the keys on the wall OUT of the frame in those shots referencing Lonnie by name specifically. However, when the conversation circles back to Will, and then follows after with Joyce telling Hopper to find her son, the keys are once again visible in both of their shots.

This scene right here is pretty epic. We all interpret Hopper's investigative skills throughout the series as him just being good at his job. But I would argue this scene in particular gives off very intense deja vu. It's as if Hopper knows where to look, because he's done this before. It's as if he's getting a gut feeling in certain areas that actually could be close to the truth, because this is his thousandth time doing this (Jesus, for their sake, I hope that's not the case).

Still, Hopper showcases a lot of unbelievable detective work throughout the show, and I think it could very well be hinting at him drifting in and out of awareness over the fact that he has done this before, which allows him to make such incredible guesses that lead him to the answer sooner than he would have in any normal situation (and yet, never too close...)

Has this always been here? That's what Hopper asks about a dent in the wall. We interpret it as maybe Hopper trying to figure out if this could be connected to Will's disappearance. But what if it's more than that? What if it hasn't always been there? What if this is a glitch in the matrix of sorts, and he noticed that glitch, bc this isn't his first time doing this? (Also peep the owl that shows up at the very last second in the shot directly below, with Joyce and Hopper in the frame, just as he gets the urge to check the backyard...)

This scene... This fucking scene ya'll. It just doesn't make any sense. This is one of several scenes throughout the show that have so many unanswered questions. I think it's because something else is going on that weren't not supposed to understand yet. That shot with Hopper encased in a rainbow is cool and probably means something... Hopper intensely walking into the frame as he steps towards the shed, with the upside down horseshoe above the door also probably means something...

Hopper literally walks up straight to where Will was in the shed the night previous, bc he's just that good of a detective. Yeah, okay... Suddenly the light overhead is blinking dramatically, only to switch off completely, which leads Hopper's eyes to catch this makeshift fort in the corner of the shed. Before he even gets a good look at what he's seeing, he's interrupted by Callahan, pulling him out of his deja vu state, followed by the light switching back on instantly, as if the occurrence was all in his head.

This also happens a lot, where our main characters are being interrupted by other characters, only seconds before they were close to solving something. And I just find that interesting...

This one is kind of peak comedy because, all it's doing on the surface is implying that Joyce and Hopper have a romantic history, but it also sneakily involves Will in the joke, as evidence that they have been intimate... The Chief and her, they've screwed before huh? ...WILL! That a 'yeah' or did they...

To be honest, I was really doubtful about Joyce and Hopper being El and Will's biological parents at first, even despite believing twelvegate and the possibility of them being twins. And this doubt mostly came from the scenes we get with Terry aka El's 'Mama'.

Initially, I had convinced myself it would be too sad, considering how much backstory we got about Terry. But @shippingfangirl013 made me realize that there is something very off about these scenes with Terry, that I think kind of went over all of our heads.

First of all, Mama is essentially the equivalent to the name Papa, and so we should start by unpacking that. Why didn't the writers have El distance herself from that exact association she links to Brenner, by just having her call Terry 'mom' like most kids call their mother? It doesn't seem that serious on the surface, but again this is a choice the writers made... Maybe it's because they wanted the audience to subconsciously associate those two with each other (Papa/Mama)? Also peep Jim giving Will Byers vibes, all lit up by the sun like Jesus (or I guess... God?) below!

The main thing I want to talk about though, is that despite Terry's vegetative state, she's still managing to give us hints about how she feels and what she thinks, with very subtle micro-expressions.

When she meets Hopper and Joyce in s1, Terry looks completely unsurprised. You could say she looks the same all of the time, because of her vegetative state, and while I mostly agree, there are some outliers in the mix.

When Joyce mentions El being her daughter, what we get is a reaction shot of Terry dramatically closing her eyes for an extended period of time, almost like she's experiencing frustration over them woefully misunderstanding the truth behind what's going on.

And I think that's kind of the whole point of the vegetative state here, that perhaps if Terry could say what she wanted to say, it would give away the truth that has been hidden all along, AKA Joyce and Hopper are El and Will's true parents. When Joyce then mentions her missing son, showing Terry a picture of him, this woman LITERALLY turns her head to the right, looking straight up annoyed... Why? Why would she do that unless this is her ?/? time meeting them, hearing this same old silly charade?..

But then here... THIS moment when Hopper asks about Brenner and Terry's relationship with him, that's when it gets interesting. Terry doesn't look exhausted over their ignorance anymore like she seemed to be in the moments previous. Now, she's back to her stare of nothing, and yet seeing this in contrast to her micro-expressions, almost adds a new layer to what this could possibly mean... Perhaps this could be hinting that Hopper is a lot closer to the truth than he realizes, warranting a knowing look from Terry, with her almost impressed, thinking Damn Jim, maybe you'll figure it out this time and I can finally be released from this hell...

This might seem like a reach to assume Brenner and Terry had any sort of relation beyond her being a lab volunteer, but something I think you might be interested in knowing, is that Terry has a little collection of Bonsai tree books beside her chair... Bonsai... does that remind you of anyone...? (If you check out those posts by @shippingfangirl013, you might know what i'm referring to...)

The fact that Hopper even mentions Brenner and Terry's presumed connection to him is just one other example of Hopper subconsciously picking up on things he discovered in previous loops that are close to the TRUE truth, allowing him to narrow things down quicker this time around, without needing to take all the steps to get to that point.

An owl behind both Joyce and Hopper here, while they talk about what allegedly happened to Terry and her daughter Jane.

And there you have it folks, the acknowledgment that the truth could have been covered up, the moment Hopper stands in front of the owl artwork (literally covering it up). Owls, which have been tied more than anyone else to Hopper, Joyce, Will and El (tying them together?).? Also the crib between them... Nothing to see here.

This one is pretty self explanatory. We even get a parallel to this in s4 with El AND Will, though next time they'll confirm Hopper's role in the equation. So, be ready for that...

These scenes are so important to this theory because despite them all being separated (who knows how many times now), they have this epic finale of coming together. We get these really heartfelt scenes with El and Joyce and Hopper, Will and El, and then Will and Joyce and Hopper, and it's all very emotional and just so much deeper knowing that the truth could be that they're all tied to each other more than we (or even them) realize.

11 & 12 between the two hands on the clock, in a moment that parallels X-Men and also the lab massacre (which presumably had both 11 and 12 in attendance...). Mike calling out to El emotionally the moment that Joyce and Hopper are reunited with Will. My heart can't take it!!!

Someone actually noticed this shot of Hopper recently, I can't remember who! But it made me want to go back to see what shot is right before it. And low and behold, it follows directly after a shot of the Byers family reuniting. Kind of interesting they made the choice to have this shot right afterwards, of Hopper sitting next to Ted (aka a dad), while looking lost in thought as he stressfully bites his nails, with his arm sporting his daughter's blue bracelet...

Not suspicious at all. That creepy shadow behind Owens as he makes an almost knowing comment about Joyce and Hopper being 'Mom and Pop', followed by Hopper looking like he's missing something...

And for this scene to follow shortly after? Hopper literally acknowledging Owens whose waving at him politely, and yet choosing to not wave back at him?... He KNOWS something is off, but he just can't quite put his finger on it...

As you probably know, most of the scenes with the birthday mug in Mike's basement involve either El (in s1) or Will (in s2-3), which is interesting considering the other few notable birthday references we get in the show, including this really cryptic sequence above, involve Joyce and Hopper...

Now, if you still didn't believe me about Terry's behavior being off, I think this piece of evidence might help support our claims a little bit more for you to consider. Because, why, WHY when El approaches Terry in the void and says I'm home, is Terry's response No..? Why would that even make any sense? Why would El's biological mom say No to her missing daughter implying that she is her family? Unless, she's not of course...?

Something interesting about the flashbacks that Terry shows El, is that they're very sporadic and hard to understand. Not only that, but we STILL get callbacks to these memories heavily even in s4, which tells me there is still something there that has yet to be picked up on, by both the audience and El herself, which is why they keep resurfacing in different forms. My favorite moment out of the s2 flashbacks though is probably this moment where it looks like a baby is born, only for Brenner to look back, like there's more to come (another baby?? TWINS?). But this type of twin imagery, only gets stronger in s3-4...

After 2 seasons of building up this meeting of these two characters who have been mirroring each other since the very beginning, here we are... Also, why even hold back for so long in introducing them? Maybe because them finally interacting properly is going to cause some things to resurface... And you definitely don't want to overlook these shots of Hopper and Joyce in Melvald's with two baby's in between them, followed by a shot of keys... Hmmmm.

Remember when I said to pay attention to the Terry/Lab flashbacks El experiences over the seasons?

Well this particular flashback below comes from 3x06: E Plurbius Unum aka the episode that was originally titled The Birthday, might prove to be important...

Jonathan and Will in a scene prior to El's flashback, has them situated interestingly between this Lucky Charms box and this Spill & Spell game, which is then followed by this scene with El experiencing flashbacks... And...

Rainbow? Lucky (Upside down horse shoe...) Enter flashback

I'm not going to be able to show each frame of this flashback, because in total there are over 30 different quick images shown and repeated...

And so, If you want to find out why this is the strongest piece of evidence for Willel twins in my opinion (brought to you by @shippingfangirl013's big brain), go back and rewatch to see how many times they show the image of baby El and young El in the rainbow room... Also take note of how shots of Kali (008) are interspersed consistently within this flashback, aka a character that is known for having powers to make people invisible, and to also make people see things that aren't actually happening...

Here's that parallel I mentioned earlier making a return, but instead tying El (and arguably Will) to Hopper being their biological father. Also peep El's bracelet and Will's watch being prominent in a lot of their shots together throughout s4, now that they share the screen a lot more.

The Wright Bros...

No, but seriously, Willel's bracelet and watch mirroring each other often in their scenes together, and by association also paralleling Hopper wearing one of each, dramatically showcased in his introduction to the series, can be something so personal to me...

THEY'RE TWINS YOUR HONOR!

This one really goes off. A car passes by a couple times during this flashback El has (IN S4), causing a shadow to cast behind Will, almost creating this duplicate-like effect... This is literally happening while El is having a flashback to her 'birth mother', while staring at a family (with their faces warn out/blurred) on a billboard, with an arrow pointing towards where Will, aka her twin, is standing to the right of her...

This one below has gotta be my favorite though. And it's because I literally remember watching this scene the first time and being confused?

Tbh, that's when you know something is more complex than it appears. Whenever something feels off within the context provided in the moment, it's probably because there's something deeper going on and there are multiple meanings at play. This means they're using this small moment as an opportunity to provide dual meaning in plain sight, that we wont understand the dual meaning of until later on down the line.

Are you ready..

Hmmm. I wonder what this could possibly be alluding to? Could it perhaps be the writers hinting at Hopper unintentionally projecting his own situation onto Dmitri? Is it possible who Hopper believes to be his child (daughter... son(s?)?) and his (ex)wife, are not actually who he and everyone thinks they are...?

Well. There you have it! These are just some of the many, many hints hiding in the details that point to the possibility of the Byers actually all being, Hoppers...?

For now, this is just a theory! So even though it's cool and there is a serious amount of evidence pointing to it, it will most definitely continue to transform and look different over time, the more we look deeper and discover more. Nothing is set in stone, for now it's all just theories and speculation.

Again, if you're curious about what else there is out there in regards to this theory and other possibilities surrounding it, please follow and check out @shippingfangirl013 posts! She was way more on board with this theory than me in the beginning and arguably still is, because I do still experience occasional doubt about it, for sure.! And so without her I would not have come to half of these conclusions! I look forward to you guys seeing other stuff she's discovered bc seriously... Her poor storage ya'll.

And also, if you're interested in the time-loop aspect specifically in regards to this, I encourage you to check out two recent posts I did about this. Part I actually starts with those first scenes introducing Hopper and the Byers and how other scenes later in the show parallel it. VERY VERY cool stuff, and tbh if you've made it this far, I think you'll be intrigued...

Time Loop Fuckery in Stranger Things Part I

Time Loop Fuckery in Stranger Things Part II

[symbiotic-slime]

idk how much you’re willing to spoiler about your fic BUT I am so curious if there will be any other avatars besides Eddie/Venom & which entities you associate with which characters!! :o I always thought a tma/marvel crossover would be so cool, I’m so interested in this :]

I’m always happy to share more about these fics!! I admittedly haven’t thought of many characters since I’ve basically only made lore for Eddie/Venom and Flash 😅 I’m hoping the fics will be written like a statement/series of statements!

for what entities they’d serve, I think Eddie would be an avatar of the Corruption! it just fits symbrock so well— like a parasite (affectionate) who is obsessively in love with you is basically combining all of the aspects of the Corruption into one. in my fic, Venom starts out as mold growing in Eddie’s apartment which he starts off trying to kill but eventually the Corruption gets a hold of him mentally and he bonds with Venom! there’s a lot of body horror with Eddie since the Corruption is just perfect for body horror. lots of rot/decay (he’s basically Jane Prentiss-esque but instead of worms it’s goop) and also to highlight the obsessive/toxic love part Eddie’s rib cage is ripped open and Venom is wrapped around his heart >:3

I think Flash would be an avatar of the Slaughter! I know I’m so original by making the solider character a Slaughter avatar but it fits him too well 😭 his fic is a lot sadder than Eddie’s, since I’m kinda making the unpredictable abuse he suffered from his dad the catalyst for the entity noticing him and starting to influence him. I’m warping around the comics timeline a bit so he joins the army right after high school and also making it so his legs being amputated is the result of his need for violence instead of him being a war hero to fit the Slaughter better! in the hospital, since he can’t really feed the Slaughter anymore, its influence on him starts to wain and he resolves to become a better person (think like what happened with the coffin in s4)! it’s not entirely a happy ending, since he is getting weaker and weaker by trying to be a better person, but he makes amends with Peter and their friendship starts there in the fic! that’s as happy of an ending as anyone in a TMA au can get unfortunately :,(

I was also thinking of making the Venom symbiote an avatar! I kinda scrapped that idea because I figured they would be an avatar of the Hunt and I wasn’t sure how to show that in a way that significantly deviates from canon? like they already kind of have to kill to survive, and are an apex predator with a drive to hunt. I’ll make a fic about that if I can think of a fun supernatural way to do it but as of now it’s still a headcanon but I’m not a planning a fic about it

I’ve also thought about what entity they would be a victim of! I’m a big fan of putting my favourite characters in situations, so it’s very fun to assign them their own personal hell, but I haven’t thought of any fic ideas for it. they’ve just been given a vibe lol.

Eddie would be a victim of the Lonely (he starts having a breakdown every time he thinks the symbiote has died and starts weeping about how “we’re dead” and cannot get over Anne for the life of him… he just seems like his biggest fear is being alone)

Flash would be a victim of the Web (specifically with the addiction imagery from s5, but also with him being repeatedly blackmailed in the comics)

Venom would be a victim of the Desolation (especially with Eddie and Dylan both “dying” in the current run, I’d also ignore Flash’s resurrection so it’s just like “all my friends are dead”)

[rorirevolutions]

World Building Pt 2: Timeline

So I've done some calculations based on characters B-days and the shows dates and this is the timeline for the fic I've come up with. The years represent when these things take place in the world as I believe each season takes up roughly a year. Reminder I accept any feedback and ideas offered <3.

We are gonna start off with the first of the series which is: Lab Rats S1. The first season takes place in 2012, and it is quickly followed by LR S2 and The Thundermans S1 in 2013.

Mighty Med S1, Thundermans S2, Henry Danger S1 and LR S3 take place in 2014. This is also when Bionics are revealed to the world(if you read World Building pt1 you'll remember that Bionics are completely different than superpowers, but the general populations reaction to the Bionics sets up for the Supers reveal).

2015 is when shit starts heating up. Not only do we have Lab Rats S4 and Mighty Med S2(Mighty Med vs Lab Rats), but we also have Thundermans S3 and Henry Danger S2(Danger vs Thunder). 2015 is also when Supers are revealed to the world(chaos ensues).

In 2016 we deal with the fallout of the reveal with MM S3, Thundermans S4 and Henry Danger S3(theres a lot less drama for them because I firmly believe that the citizens of Swellview are kinda funky and already knew. It was kinda an open secret for them). I have some ideas on MM S3 but more suggestions are welcome. My current ideas are:

Kaz and Oliver discover their powers and try to adapt to them

The world panics over the existence of Supers and the Supers PR team was NOT prepped for this

Rodissius, got heavily injured during a battle and was evacuated to the Mighty Med Hospital. Oliver and Kaz managed to keep him alive, but they had to extract his powers, making him powerless. 

Bridget/Mr. Terror gets imprisoned and her empire dismantled

Mighty Med Hospital gets destroyed :(

2017 is HD S4 and Lab Rats: Elite Force S1(don't worry I will fix it)

2018 brings us HD S5 and LR:EF S2. My current ideas for this are(not in any order):

Citywide war between Bionics/Supers and Shifters. This also includes outside conflict with the EF team and the rest of the Super community

Rodissius and his children eventually get defeated and imprisoned

Power Vacuum and Crimewave ensue due to the citywide war

The Island Crew(Adam, Leo, Marcus(yes he's alive and got a redemption arc), and Daniel) show up every now and again as the training has slowed down. 

In 2019 we have Elite Force S3(I don't have solid plans for this yet I just know I want it to happen), Henry Danger S6(Team Danger adapting to life in Dystopia), and The Thundermans Return(yes its the movie but better).

2020-2024 is mostly the New Gen of Supers with Danger Force and Villains of Valley View taking center stage. We will obviously still be getting cameos and content on what the rest are up to but the Kiddos need their time to shine.

Let me know what y'all think and if you have any ideas to add on to this!

[irrealisms]

Game Over. Try Again? liner notes

fic here if you haven't read it!

first thing i want to say is: this fic is heavily inspired by Samsara / 輪迴 by ForgivenMemes. if you're an mdzs fan and can handle the content warnings, go check it out.

some Actual Time Loop (rather than time travel) concepts that didn't get written: zam's last week of the server, from bedrock box to the wormhole. vitalasy on two birds/deliverance day.

however i did a lot of thinking about, like, who or what is causing the time loop? why? how can they break out? and eventually came to an answer: they're the ones causing the time loop, because they just keep trying and trying to make this work, long after it has become obvious that it can't work, because they love each other. so i wrote this instead. i could have given it a happier ending where vitalasy eventually breaks the time loop by Letting Go and Moving On to Season Five but this is thematically speaking ... the story we already got in s4? in canon, at the finale, vitalasy is able to let go of zam and move on to s5. so i wanted to make him a bit worse. also im obsessed with [cycles you cannot break and are trapped in forever].

it had to be vitalasy or zam because subz, after like two loops, would Simply Not Invite Zam. tbh. and out of vitalasy and zam, one of them already has Miscellaneous Glitch Powers, so.

relatedly: you don't get to see much of this in the fic but spoke (a) does not know what, exactly, vitalasy is doing to the server (b) does know that he's doing something. spoke would NOT be happy about the time travel. he worked so hard on the apocalypse!!!! it's the END of season four not the "okay now time to go back a few months". come on vitalasy where's the narrative catharsis

another fun fact from planning: if it had been a time loop proper and not time travel as controlled by vitalasy, they would've suspected spoke as behind it, but it absolutely would not have been spoke. spoke does not care enough about eclipse poly drama to put you in a time loop about it sorry guys

vitalasy paces a lot in this fic. that's a pretty common stressed/trapped animal thing. you see foxes do it a lot, in fur farms or pseudo-sanctuaries or generally abusive living conditions.

he also spins! that's just a vitalasy trait. watch any vod with vitalasy in it from a non-vitalasy pov and note how much he spins. it's a good trait. i wish i had included more of him spinning but i couldn't find a ton of good spots for it so he only spins once.

you know the thing life series fans say. "[character] never left [location]." none of eclipse federation ever left eclipse federation. now you may say, zam did very much leave eclipse federation, it was kind of a big deal that zam left eclipse federation? which is true! however. in the life series sense, none of them left eclipse federation, in that none of them are at all over it.

i think a lot about post-betrayal s4 eclipse federation. they're still hanging onto it. they hang onto it after and despite zam's betrayal, long after it's clear that it can't exist again like it did before. they keep trying and trying and trying even as it only becomes more and more apparent that the trying doesn't help. because they love each other. and that's what this fic is about.

sparrow called this out in the comments but. the multiple meanings of 'zam made their bed'. zam made their bed (physically, he placed it and designed it.) zam made their bed (physically, he made the covers nicer.) zam made their bed (he made this relationship what it was, you can't get rid of him without getting rid of that.) zam made their bed (now lie in it.)

i like the note of vitalasy putting his hearts in a chest for them at the end. he doesn't even know if subz and zam will keep existing in this timeline! and he didn't label it 'for subz'. zam is planning on betraying him that day and he still left the hearts for him, too. man!

also it's in glowing dyed ink to be a little reminiscent of All The Sign Rooms. my beta kelardry added that detail :3

here's a secret: i can, actually, imagine possibilities that went differently and ended up happier for eclipse. (most of them are "vitalasy replays subz's suicide enough that he successfully finds a way to get subz to agree to stay alive".) however, at that point, the fic would become canon divergence rather than time loop, so instead i made subz's suicide more of a fixed point. sorry vitalasy!

[shrinkthisviolet]

So I noticed your tags on a reblog a while ago about how you had a problem with The Flash - and I'd love to know more about what you thought of it overall (as I understand that the later seasons took something of a nosedive in quality.)

Oh boy 😅 I could go into depth about my problems with each of the seasons, but honestly, for the sake of brevity, I’m just gonna abbreviate the major problems I have for each season:

Season 1

—Iris should’ve been looped in sooner, especially given how many times she was put in danger by not knowing

—The waterfront kiss and the lightning psychosis bs is stupid—I’m glad the first thing was erased, and I try to ignore the second thing. There’s nothing romantic/funny about cheating or justifying it

—Eowells should’ve been killed off normally, not by being erased from existence (because?? How does the timeline still exist??)

Season 2

—Zoom’s motives were incoherent, and he’s only a good villain because of his menace factor

—Wally and Jesse should’ve both gotten powers from the accelerator, not just Jesse

—Jesse should’ve had Zoom-related trauma that impacted her ability (and desire) to be a speedster in s3

—Eliza Harmon should’ve been a WOC like in the comics, and she deserved a better storyline and she deserved to live, yes I’m still mad about this.

Season 3

—Savitar. In general. Wtf (existence makes no sense, him being a wannabe god instead of just Future Barry is boring, and also he was only interesting in the finale. By which point he should’ve been dead anyway. Also there’s no mf way he could’ve actually killed Iris bffr)

—Killer Frost. Incoherent—her siding with Savitar makes sense with the s4/s5 retcons, but those are from seasons when she regressed as a character imo. Also I never liked the split personality idea

—Iris being the only one at risk means there are no stakes because she’s the main female lead and would never really be killed off. All of Team Flash should’ve been at stake, with the possibility teased that they might disband permanently.

—Flashpoint was wasted potential and tbh should’ve happened after s1. Or at least it should’ve been more deeply explored here. But in any case, it feels cheap to have this after Barry already fully came to terms with his mom’s death in s2 (I know, it was grief over his dad, but still. It undercuts a fantastic episode)

—The time loop setup is nonsensical and impossible. Breaking it means that s3 never happened. No one should remember anything that happened this season.

—Caitlin and/or Frost never apologized to Iris for being an accessory in her attempted murder (and in s4, Frost threatens her life again!! Yay!! Friendly bonding!!)

Season 4

—Can someone tell me why tf Team Leader suddenly became a thing? I swear the closest the Team ever had to a Team Leader was Eowells, way back in s1. The idea of a Team Leader after that feels too hierarchal for them, idk why that was introduced

—Caitlin worked with a human trafficker of her own volition (and Frost too, this was presumably a decision made by both of them) and yet she is only held accountable in one line (“Where have you been the last 6 months again?”) and it’s quickly swept over by making Amunet into a ditz and ignoring the fact that she is a human trafficker

—Bodyswap plot was weird, DeVoe should’ve just taken their powers

—Marlize never had any clear motives after she gave up her ideals to side with her husband.

—The Thinker in general is just stupid tbh

—Caitlin and Iris barely got to be friends, and after this season, they may as well not have been. Caitlin was also unnecessarily snippy to Iris this season too (“we will, Caitlin” “no. I will” + “I’m your friend, Caitlin” “work friend”). This is a general problem with this show—female friendships are given lip service at best and no room to grow

—Barry and Iris deserved a proper wedding that wasn't interrupted

—Thawne did not hate every minute of pretending to be Harrison Wells, that is garbage writing and fundamentally misunderstands his character

—Barry should've killed Thawne in this crossover. He was so close!! WHY (and they still could've brought him back later if they really needed to)

Season 5

—Both Cicadas sucked, and the father-daughter Orlin-Grace/Barry-Nora parallels fall flat when you remember a) Dwyer literally hates Grace until she’s comatose and b) those parallels only get mentioned in one conversation

—I wasn't too fond of Cisco giving up his powers, it felt like a strange decision, especially since he gets them back briefly in Crisis and somewhat permanently in s7. I've talked about that more here (definitely read all the additions too!)

—Iris’s angle in the argument with Barry should’ve been “no one works with Thawne, they’re manipulated by him” not “it doesn’t bother me that our daughter worked with the man who half-orphaned you, threatened my life, hurt everyone on this Team, and killed my fiancé”

—Nora acts wayyy too young for being 25-28. She should’ve been 18-20. She very much gives off the vibes of a young adults who’s newly independent (and this further ties into the themes of legacy, which is a theme usually present in YA stories, with teenage/young-adult protagonists. Obviously the theme of legacy can be present in any story, but this presentation of it is usually prominent in YA stories)

—Nora having the NSF should’ve occurred at the end of s5, not during 5x20. Would’ve been more poignant if she had to choose between keeping it and becoming Thawne, or giving it up and dying a hero 😭 and her having the NSF in canon came across more as a temper tantrum than her being corrupted by a destructive force.

(Hey also why tf do people remember Nora after she’s erased—)

Season 6

—Loved Iris having a fleshed-out journalism arc, especially going forward, but her journalism career should’ve been reintroduced a while ago. Possibly even in s4 (beyond just a scant mention of her writing an article about DeVoe)

—Thawne should’ve been in Crisis. Especially over Lex mf Luthor

—The Mirroverse arc is…ugh. I don’t love the idea of Iris being replaced with an evil alter and no one noticing for an entire half-season. And an important Westallen conversation about Iris’s agency happening with Mirror Iris, not real Iris!

—Mirror Iris had sex with Barry under false pretenses. And gloated about it. But five minutes later, we’re supposed to feel sorry for her?? Yikes

And now we’re on to my least favorite seasons! Not a lot of points here, but that’s because out of all the bad stuff, I’m just picking the egregiously bad stuff:

Season 7

—Iris being saved by an emotionless Barry is weird and they both deserved better than that

—Chillame is the worst character this show has ever made. Or at least the top 5

—Eva is a dumb villain who wasn’t even compelling to watch. She was very one-note and…I don’t even remember her motive??

—The Forces arc is bizarre. I don’t like how they personified literal forces of nature, it’s dumb. And them calling Barry and Iris “Mom” and “Dad” is worse

—Frost’s arrest storyline was bs. I was honestly kinda excited, because I hoped she’d face some consequences for the stuff she did in s3 and s4, but…nope!! Kramer’s a bad guy who hates all metas!! And Frost (a white woman) gives a speech modeled after the BLM movement!! It’s gross.

—idk much about Godspeed in the comics, but he was definitely done dirty here. And that’s not even mentioning the stupid lightsaber fight…and the fact that Barry just…lets Thawne go?? And says “yeah, he’ll be back one day, but that’s Future Us’s problem.” Speaking of which…

Season 8

—Well, well, well, if it isn’t the consequence of Barry Allen’s actions. We get Armageddon, which is compelling for the first half and drops off in the second half. The logic is faulty (how is Barry the RF when Thawne killed him as a kid? Why does Iris love Thawne just because he’s the Flash?), some of the stuff in this arc is arophobic (“why don’t you love love?”) and tbh the Chester/Allegra romance is very forced, I’m not a fan. Cecile trying to one-up Iris regarding grieving Joe was also very gross

—Iris’s time sickness is so ridiculous. It started back in s7, but the show acts like it started in s8 because of the Negative Forces. It’s awful and it’s another excuse to rob Iris of agency. It should’ve just been a pregnancy…or scrapped entirely

—So regarding Caitlin's grief and Barry's response...honestly, so many problems would be solved if these characters consistently went to therapy, especially Caitlin. She always reacts to grief destructively. Barry, however, shouldn't have responded by destroying everything in her lab instead of...idk relocating her and having a talk somewhere else??

—No, Barry would not be a bad person for killing Thawne after he thought Iris was already dead. Personally, I think he should've killed the mf ages ago

Season 9

—Red Death was underwhelming, that’s all I have to say about it

—why tf is Chillame still here

—Khione deserved to make her own decisions and not be forced to die for Caitlin and/or Frost to live…but also, as a character, she’s very bland. I also skipped any episode where she and Chillame were even remotely romantic, mostly for my own sanity

—I was so excited for the finale arc and it did not deliver!! It flopped real hard!! Eddie is turned evil so fast it made my head spin, the return of prior villains was underwhelming (including their defeats...why tf did Allegra defeat Thawne?? Why did Cecile defeat Godspeed?? Why did Nora defeat Savitar with one stab wound not even piercing the armor??), and the resolution is just...hugging it out?? I guess??

And that's about it as far as major critiques go 😅 if anyone wants me to expand on any of these points, I'm happy to!

(Except the s7-s9 stuff, which I don't even plan on including in my Morgan AU because those seasons are honestly so bad that I'd rather forget about them entirely. I don't like s3 much, but at least it has potential that I'm interested in revamping/exploring)

[tkbrokkoli]

time for some rambling!!!! im excited to participate in fandom again where you have to wait for the next episode. this is just gonna be some incoherent sleep deprived rambling for myself, so nothing serious.

anyway so murder mystery, wow! that was v interesting and not what i expected. i saw some fanart of the different characters involved before listening to the episode and i imagined it would be like a. ball??? like where royalty is invited to dance and have a fun time. not a the last man standing can behold the blackstone murder mystery thing. ive read ppl saying arthur has the bubonic plague but that wasnt actually mentioned? he could have tuberculosis as well?? i think you can actually cough up blood there? and like. isnt the bubonic plague w/o antibiotics deadly? but whatever it is he needs antibiotics and im p sure they weren't invented in that timeline yet as well. he's already died in s5 right, i think a double death would be A Lot. then again i actually was kinda expecting him to die in that episode bc i saw fanart of him in the waylay and parker was there so i thought it would be revealed that parker is waiting for arthur in the afterlife but apparently that is not canon (yet?). also i read sm abt arthur and john saying i love you to each other that i thought the episode would have a moment of them saying it as well but nope lol. it's funny how being in the tag while trying not to be spoiled can prime your expectations. im also surprised that the blackstone is already so close? i expected it to be far away and reached only in the next season for some reason? then again it makes sense that kayne would send arthur and john as close to getting the blackstone as possible, right. the blackstone, kayne, mother darkness, mr scratch, they must all be connected w each other somehow, right? is there gonna be a big showdown? probably. is oscar's letter even still legible after arthur's dive into the witch's pond? it feels p cruel after s4, like what i mean is in s1, s2, and s3 it was just arthur and john against the world and in s4 he finally made some human connections and friends only to have it all ripped away from him again. i still hope that the last ever ep of malevolent will just be arthur and john having a normal nice day, eg watching a movie like john wanted to, getting a full night's sleep, having a nice meal etc. w/o any horrors but the listeners still expect Some horrors to creep up so we're all on edge until the end of the episode and then we'll cry from relief and happiness. idk how realistic this is. anyway. i can't believe it was only 4 weeks ago when i started malevolent lol. im glad i did! it's super well done and impressive and also touches topics that other media i've checked out so far hasn't touched on.