#this season I have really felt like these writers do not understand what the s1 writers were doing with pete

[bornforastorm]

no but my real comment on Perry Mason this week is: happy for the lesbians, happy for paul and his cute as hell wife, deeply disinterested in perry kissing this teacher when he has much more compelling relationships already established that could use more attention

[the-other-art-blog]

I cannot deal with one more Benophie fan complaining about the lack of Benedict's artistic side in s3.

Aren't you guys supposed to like this character and understand him?

Everyone complains about the show's lack of accountability, continuity, and consequences. But here it is Benedict's artistic plot going through ups and downs for 3 seasons and fans complain!

That was one of my main wishes for s3: NO ART FOR BENEDICT. It had to be this way.

Benedict thought he had entered the Academy by himself, for his talent. He was so happy to have received external validation and Anthony's interference destroyed that. He destroyed his confidence. Of course, he abandoned art. He felt like a fraud.

If Benedict had resumed painting in s3, this scene would have lost meaning and weight:

What would have been the point of this dramatic moment if he would have been fine next season?

In the book, part of Benedict's arc is growing confident in his art. He has been hiding his talent forever (even more than in the show) because he's afraid and Sophie helps him realize he's an artist. The show found a way to show his art since s1, and still follow the book.

This was not the final season, we still have to see HIS season where all of this needs to be resolved. His season is when he needs to regain confidence and share his art with everyone again, thanks to Sophie.

Yes, it was sad to see Benedict holding a newspaper instead of a sketchbook, BUT IT WAS NECESSARY FOR HIS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!!!!

That brief exchange with Paul said everything the audience needed to know about his art in s3:

Paul asks him if he paints (Paul was being a bit of a jerk here, too judgemental just because Ben is part of the ton, but I get it)

How heartbreaking this was!

He couldn't have said 'yes' even if he talked in past tense because Paul would have asked more. 'Why did you give it up?' And what was he supposed to say: 'My brother paid my way into the Academy'? Of course, he said no. The writers did not forget about s1 and s2, they simply were writing a coherent storyline. Benedict's still not over the betrayal and hurt he felt at the end of s2.

In the meantime, Ben has been filling the hole art left in his heart with work during Anthony's honeymoon. Once that is gone, Ben becomes a jerk (I've talked about this in this post after seeing part 1: x) He's extra grumpy and out-of-character but it makes sense narratively because he's frustrated.

It only gets better when he meets Tilley. She is a temporary solution to his frustration. Once he began his affair with her, he went back to his normal, charming self at balls. This is what he does, what he did for 3 seasons. Sex is like a palliative treatment for whatever turmoil he has inside (see how amazingly appropriate this is for Benophie?)

Moreover, Benedict's sexuality needed to be addressed BEFORE his season. Or would you have preferred to do it while Sophie was there?

Thanks to CVD, who refused to address this matter in s2, Jess had to do it in s3. Honestly, Jess did a lot of fixing this season.

This way Benedict is at peace with that part of himself that had been causing so much anxiety since he met Granville. Not only did Tilley offer a momentary escape valve for his frustration, but she helped him accept a part of his identity AND encouraged him to find love. Honestly, the hate she gets from the Benophie fandom is shameful. She did nothing wrong and only helped and supported Benedict. (Plus Luke Thompson loved those scenes, so 🤷‍♀️)

I shouldn't get so upset about other people's opinions, but honestly. These comments come from people who declare to be stans and queens of the fandom. They also have been in a 2-year tantrum and hate campaign against s3, so not really surprised.

It's so funny because if there's one character that has been written exquisitely, it's Benedict. He's the writers' favorite, 100%. Everything he has done makes total sense and prepares him for Sophie.

[forsakenwitchery]

It's been a long time since I've really ranted about something on here but like.

HOTD is just… On another level of bad? At some point this season, I got so tired of getting angry with the writing I just straight up started laughing at almost every single scene. I managed to find a sliver of enjoyment in the shitshow what S2 turned out to be. Not anymore.

Small costest backstage at the end because I felt like looking at myself smiling after writing all this down lol

Having seen some and read about some E8 leaks I'm just… I guess I'm checking out. What they've done to the Greens and specifically Aemond this season is Merlin's 'Morgana suddenly full evil' level of shit writing. And I can't handle yet another favorite nuanced character of mine being stripped of any nuance by the shit writers. But at least with Morgana there was a lot of her, and with Aemond it's 2 minutes of peak character assassination per episode and it isn't cutting it.

I feel so bad for Ewan and the rest of the Green actors who gave it their all - and in some scenes you can clearly see Ewan giving his all trying to fight the shitty writing, but there's only so much an actor can do with a script so bad.

Like when in ep. 5 everyone kept referring to Aemond as if he's suddenly Satan incarnate (Alicent, Daemon ahhh pretty sure there was someone else this episode ‘cause I remember three characters) I knew they decided to flip the switch with Aemond suddenly going full caricature villain (and yeah he was no saint BUT LIKE BBQ-ING HIS BRO?) with no proper buildup for it but HOLY SHIT I didn’t think it would be ‘blink and he’s full on sociopathic villain’. And the way they really did try and hammer that point home with him yanking Helaena now is just… Fucking wild. But like, he wasn’t wrong with dismissing Alicent who turned out to be the biggest traitor on TG this season (RIP S1 Alicent). He’s not wrong in saying they need Dreamfyre. But the show sure did go about him technically not being wrong yet showing it in the worst way possible very... head-on and with lacking any nuance. It truly feels like Condal & Co just couldn’t handle how popular Aemond became in S1 and gave him as little screen time as possible while simultaneously trying to make him as unsympathetic and suddenly 180 as possible. Which just doesn’t work without the proper buildup if you stop to think for even one second.

Then we’ve got Alicent who drilled it into her sons’ heads they’ll be dead unless they fight Rhae and now she’s also 180 and doesn’t understand why they want to fight and turns out to be the biggest traitor basically surrendering her children, the city and her brother to the woman whose husband killed her grandchild. The fuck did S1 Alicent go? Can we see her? Is she in the room with us? You know, the one jumping Rhae with the knife for Aemond? By all means, she and Aemond should have had a dynamic akin to Cersei and Joffrey’s if they were dead-set on making Aemond pretty much THE (only) villain in the show (which should have been about everyone being a criminal lmao). But like… We came to THIS? THE FUCK. THE FUUUUCK. Like imagine for one second Cersei pretty much throwing her kids to their enemies. This is. I don’t know which level of bad writing is this. We’re so far past the rock bottom at this point, the bottom doesn’t exist, the depths this season has reached don’t even have a proper name.

Then we’ve got Helaena. All season I’ve been waiting to see more of her. All season. And I waited. And waited. Her being the Dreamer sounded cool on paper. And they just ended up using her as a device to show ‘Aemond bad’ again? And HELP DAEMON? And like... to spoil the end of the story for those unfamiliar? THE FUUUUUUUUUUUCK. THE FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK.

Like damn, I knew they were baiting us with the promo and I knew it would be OOC for her to want to fight but at the same time I was kinda hoping at least she’d want to? Like she’s sane in the show. Her son was beheaded in front of her eyes. I kept hoping this show would have at least ONE female character actually willing to fight, but no. The balcony scene was good. But in spite, not thanks to what the writers clearly meant for this scene to be. Phia and Ewan really did give this scene their all and try to add nuance where they just once again tried to write Aemond off as a dick.

I haven’t seen the Aegon scene but apparently, they tried to make him look dumb again? And since there’s no rush to vacate KL in the show, why the hell didn’t he try to at least take his daughter with him? Like we get it, show, you hate the Greens and therefore all the Greens hate each other apparently (not buying it no matter how much you’re selling it tho), so him not bothering with Helaena is like okaaaay suuuure (not), but HIS KID? He was the hightlight of the first part of this season, and now we're... back at it again. Yay.

Also tbh I hated Daemyra as a concept in S1 as a ship but I LOVED their dynamic if it makes sense. It was truly interesting and both characters really shone in their shared scenes, so when Rhae’s arc this season started to feel like Groundhog Day I really missed Daemyra since at least their push and pull with Daemon made her feel more alive and interesting idk. But like. Their reunion scene looks like a grand meh? Daemon looks like he cares. Rhae came off to me like she doesn’t give a single fuck about him. Rhae in general was one of my fave characters in S1 and now it’s just. Huh? Them trying to saintify her absolutely ruined the character for me, she’s just so bland now which with her amount of screen time just… Doesn’t make for a very compelling show.

So. Yep. Those are my thoughts and feelings. tbh I don’t even know when I became so attached to the Greens. Like maybe it was in spite of the show trying to ruin and ignore them. Sort of like when you start rooting for the underdogs. But now I just feel really hollow and drained and sad for the actors. On both teams tbh, ‘cause like… What even is the point of this show anymore? There’s no war. Aemond is the only one who’s willing to wage it and the show villainizes him for it. Even in ep. 8 Rhae still says she doesn’t wanna fight the war. What did we spend 8 episodes, then, on aside from some character assassinations?

What’s the point if you don’t really feel anything towards most of the characters? Not even anger or apathy? ‘Cause like, I couldn’t care less when Rhaenys died. I’m sure when Jace kicks the bucket it would be the same. If the characters themselves can’t be bothered (where’s the aftermath for Blood and Cheese ffs?), why and HOW the hell should the viewers care? I’m sure they’ll find a way to make even Helaena’s death as meaningless as possible with giving her zero agenda in the matter.

I truly don’t think I’ll be watching S3. I don’t think I have it in me to witness how they screw up the Greens even more than they already did. It’s not even fun anymore how dumb the show is, it’s just draining. Motivations and relationships changing 180 between episodes or even during them (sometimes even during scenes), major events not phasing anyone and having no consequences. Characters the show chose as THE main characters living in Groundhog Day with nothing to do. We’re supposed to just believe the characters are suddenly completely different than they were weeks/months ago in show’s time just because the show says so. HOW ABOUT NO?

I’m only holding out hope for Daeron but at this point? I’m sure he’ll have a total o 1-2 minutes of screen time each episode as well and they’ll ruin him somehow, too. Still funny though how him and Aemond are both 16 which I’m sure is just another writing plot hole but on the off chance it isn’t… The only cool and redeemable thing the show can do at this point in my eyes is make Daeron and Aemond twins. You know, at the very least to give Ewan the screen time he deserves AND give him some better material to work with. But ah well.

At this point I’m choosing to more or less ignore everything that’s happened in S2, ‘cause the sure itself sure as hell ignored 2/3 of it, so why can’t I. Honestly, I want to do a full Helaena and Aemond cosplay, not a costest, if not for any other reason than to freaking forget S2 ever happend and maybe do some scenes which should have been in it, shippery or not. tbh I wasn't even shipping Helaemond until I saw Ewan and Phia's interviews about them and I was SO HYPED. And Tom's interviews. I was so hyped for siblings interecting in general and I feel like both the actors and the audience were done dirty in the worst way possible.

Also also the last thing I want to say is that it's super sad to see viewers turning on Aemond because it's so clear that's what the show wants everyone to do and neither Aemond nor Ewan deserve it. That's very telling of how badly he's written this season, he's not a villain you love to hate, he's just there for people to hate him. I hope at least Ewan doesn't get hate for his character, but we all know some people are braindead enough to project characters onto actors, so... :(

ALSO ALSO ALSO I don't really feel like fighting over this show because I don't think it deserves any more of my nerve cells, so should anyone decide to come at me for this post don't bother, I'll just reply with print screening this part. But it's kinda funny how tumblr seemed to have an actual war over this show when the show straight up refused to commit to anything.

To everyone who has read thus far – here, have some cute backstages from our costest. I’m sure we could all use a hug and a laugh. I know I could.

[jennaimmortal]

Musings on OFMD Season 2

I’m feeling a bit sad today for the OFMD writers. After rewatching S1 & 2 a couple times, it’s become blatantly clear to me that Izzy’s arc this season was a very obvious love letter to both Izzy fans & the great Con O’Neil. Izzy was very clearly written to be an obstacle to Ed’s healing & personal growth, a snare that Ed needed to be freed from, albeit with plenty of nuance hiding under the surface. It would have been much easier for them to kill Izzy off while he was still the toxic, abusive, sadomasochistic terror of S1E10.

Instead of taking the easy route, though, the writers flipped the trope on its head! They utilized every bit of the potential buried beneath Izzy’s super fucked up shell. This season Izzy got

• a fully fleshed out redemption complete with terrible consequences of his 1x10 actions

• a realization of the possibility of another way of thinking & existing that he’d spent all of S1 running from & trying to destroy,

• genuine love & support from his crew mates which he was actually able to accept,

• exploration of the long abandoned softer side of his nature,

• an apology from Ed w/o first offering one of his own,

• a powerful, devastatingly poignant speech that mentally demolished a new nemesis, and finally

• a beautiful, meaningful death in the arms of the man he’d dedicated so much of his life to, known that he was truly loved by him & completely accepting of the fact that Ed’s love was not in the form he’d always hoped for.

It was so much more than we could have hoped for, and was very obviously done in service to the MANY fans that had fallen in love with Izzy even after S1, as well as to give Con a storyline worthy of his immense talent. Considering the face that Izzy was never going to end up becoming the show’s third protagonist, it was more than we could have hoped for!

OFMD has two protagonists, Stede & Ed. All the secondary character narratives that haven’t directly involved Ed and/or Stede have been icing on the cake, but the cake has always been the Gentlebeard love story. I feel like some people forget this, expecting them to treat the secondary characters as if it were an ensemble show instead of a show with leads.

Izzy’s arc really was an amazing gift! The writers gave us this incredible journey for Izzy this season, and what did a disgraceful number of people do? They attacked David directly, insulted the entire show, the writers, & other characters, even wishing actual harm & misery to other characters or even to David himself!

While I know that comparatively speaking, the percentage of show fans who reacted this way was relatively small, it was still an astounding amount of hatred & vitriol thrown at the people who had obviously worked very hard to give Izzy fans something beautiful to hold on to after his inevitable death. Much of the discourse honestly shocked me, considering the fact that OFMD isn’t even an adaptation of another work.

When fans get angry at shows written as adaptations of books, it’s a bit more understandable for them to have extreme reactions. They’ve had certain ideas and headcanons about characters they’ve felt very strongly about for a long time. It can be really jarring & painful when expectations like that aren’t met, the characters or plots are taken in totally different directions, or even excluded entirely.

OFMD, however, is an original creation. This is David Jenkins’s story. These are David Jenkins’s characters. He knows his story, his plotlines, his characters far better than anyone else does because they came from HIS brain! So while we as fans can have our own interpretations & head canons, they are always going to be at risk of being proven totally wrong by the ACTUAL canon.

One of the worst aspects of fandoms, in my opinion, is the way people become so proprietary over the story & characters, insisting that their own interpretations & theories are the only correct ones, which is exactly what happened with Izzy. Fans’ individual & collective interpretations, theories, hopes, & other head canons became concrete & true in their minds. So much so that when the actual story didn’t meet those expectations, so many of them lashed out in some truly unpleasant, sometimes hateful ways.

My only hope is that the rest of the fandom’s love, appreciation, constructive criticism, heartbreak, pain, joy, & excitement has been enough to drown out the deluge of vitriolic comments directed at David & the other writers.

If you stuck with me through this unintentionally long diatribe, thank you! Maybe take a moment to give the writers some comments or replies on social media, showing your love! I know I will!

[piratecaptainscaptainpirates]

The funny thing is that the writers of OFMD made such reasonable decisions with Ed and Izzy in season 2, and it's pretty much exclusively fandom atmosphere that made people uncomfortable with them.

I can 100% understand why they just used the conversation with Fang as a stand-in for Ed learning how to sit with his guilt and make amends to the crew. Ed is an extremely sympathetic character here; we know that his kraken spiral was not his choice and not how he normally acts. It is extremely in-character for his behavior to shift from kraken mode to sweet Ed as soon as he feels safe and supported again. It is extremely understandable that the crew got comfortable again with him quickly because they never stopped loving him. He never needed a "redemption" arc, he needed a recovery arc, and the show knows that. The writers reasonably assumed they would not need to beat us over the head with convincing us we need to love Ed. They thought they did that work in season 1.

The thing that led to my biggest discomfort with Izzy's arc, on the other hand, is that the writers clearly felt they needed to over-correct. In a flashback-heavy show, we don't get any flashbacks of how Izzy treated Ed in s1, which is what triggered the kraken thing in the first place. He's almost immediately presented so much more sympathetically than in s2 - the catalyst for his character development, Ed reminding him he's replaceable as first mate, happens very quickly so he can be on roughly the same page as the rest of Ed's crew. He got lots of little lines that could've gone to other characters and lots of screen time, and the obvious intention was making sure the audience likes him, which is something the writers (again, reasonably, considering how Izzy acts in s1) assumed they would need to do.

Izzy is saved by the crew despite explicitly having done nothing to "deserve" it, and that's the point. And it's because of the fandom reaction to these characters that it too easily came across as validating the read that Izzy was a completely blameless victim and Ed was the mindless aggressor. Izzy's deathbed apology to Ed did a lot to make me comfortable with his s2 arc because it confirmed that I think the writers always knew what they were doing and hadn't forgotten what Izzy did in s1, but there was a subsection of the fandom who managed to have the read that Izzy was completely blameless up until 20 minutes into the finale.

It makes so much sense that the writers assumed that they wouldn't need to beat us over the head with making sure we love Ed and went hard in the opposite direction with Izzy. I dont' blame the writers for how they wrote it one bit. It really is just because of the fandom atmosphere that it can too easily come across as Izzy getting all the sympathy Ed was never afforded.

[ofmdsalt]

i do think it’s funny that the gentlebeardies who proclaim their love for the revenge crew don’t actually talk that much about or create content for the revenge crew. they don’t give a shit about the “boatful of queer poc that Izzy sold out” (LMFAO) unless they can use the crew’s diversity as some kind of moral gotcha. they care about GB because that’s the only thing that matters about the show in their eyes. and it’s so fucking unoriginal!!! just endless regurgitated post about “omg they’re soooo in love~~ and isn’t it great that love conquered all their problems~~!” it’s unoriginal derivative dreck unless they have to invent new ways to lie about how izzy deserves the death penalty.

oh anon you get me

you have no idea how much i hate the diversity of the crew being used as a literal weapon in this fandom when it comes to demonizing izzy and washing Ed and Stede of any of their wrong doings.

im frustrated by the use of the crew in season 2 only because it was so painfully obvious to me that the budget cuts really affected the ensemble. the way the Swede and Buttons were written out of the show felt rushed and like it came out of nowhere, especially as those two characters, felt the 'least' developed out of the rest of them. so giving them both this long winded set up to be written out was too clunky for me.

i miss when Frenchie was singing and strumming along on his lute. i miss when Jim was Jim, because lbr that was Vico in s2. it just felt like Jim wasn't there anymore. i can't say what happened in the writer's room at that time or what sort of material Vico was given or if it skewed more to improve, but a lot of what was established for the characters in s1 was missing for me.

the rhetoric of this being the Ed&Stede show i think did more harm than good. the assertion that the other characters are only here in service of Ed and Stede's development reduces the sense of scale and scope and also agency these characters have.

a lot of the foundational aspects of GB as a ship i think falls a bit too much into fan service. people talk about how revolutionary and groundbreaking the ship is as a cis gay couple on screen. as if it hasn't been seen before. like i didn't get the wow moment of Stede in the mermaid costume as other fans did. Stede's dream at the beginning of season 2 with him killing Izzy and then colliding with Ed in this romantic gesture of love and passion on the beach is straight up fantasy for Stede, but i think fans took the idea of Stede literally killing Izzy a bit too seriously because that is Stede's fantasy. he wanted his reunion with Ed to be simple and understandable. that it was all Izzy's fault when the reality of the situation was so much messier and complicated. like David and the writers were literally telling us that Izzy is not the enemy here because this moment on the beach was pure fantasy. and fantasies can be dangerous

and then the fans said that Izzy deserved it, should have had his second leg shot and amputated, that he deserved to die, that he's still a nuisance even in death despite the fact that he's dead. that is both a master manipulator but also a cringe fail loser incapable of doing anything right. and it's like. okay. you don't seem to understand this character either.

like a lot of the problems in this fandom have existed before and will continue to exist in other iterations. every fandom has its ship wars. every fandom has long ass call out posts about characters they don't like. but let's not pretend this is anything revolutionary

what i've noticed is that this fandom will reach a burnout period and it's probably already upon us. the constant need to be like 'we're trending!!' when all algorithms are dog shit and glitchy as hell doesn't mean anything. plus the fact that there are only two seasons, less BTS content to go around, it's all coming from the same overdrawn well and eventually it will come up empty.

it's okay to step back. it's okay to leave a fandom for a bit and come back to it years down the road. it's okay. but all of this is exhausting

[synchodai]

I will say that the while it's clear issues were present during the making of hotd s2, it's still a shame that the cregan/jace adventures in the north weren't given any attention. I thought they would capitalize on a stark/targaryen pairing considering how popular each respective side is

Also looking at s2... jace just did so little lol because other than his conversation with his mother towards the end, his presence this season was just so lackluster. I can't even lie, but that house Frey scene felt like a bit of a consolation prize for his lack of initiative everywhere else. In my opinion, I think it's easy to like jace after you read f&b and his death definitely adds to his appeal, but I really enjoyed how his actions (that were said to be done by him ig) have extreme consequences even when you could tell the incentive to do them were either for his family's safety or to prove himself. There's just so much more you could have done with that than just his feelings about being a bastard. These were admirable attempts during war, but they were shortsighted as well, and it's interesting to think about how if he had lived, he could have had the opportunity to grow and change

I think he could have returned after rhaenys dies maybe they use his short temper that we saw in s1 that after hearing about luke's death, he tries to do something stupid, but cregan, feeling sorry for him stops him and he stays there until he has his head on midly straight. They could've had some bond during his stay and jace's character could have been plain about any anger or guilt over luke, being a bastard, etc. We could have done more with cregan (like it's funny as a show only you know nothing about his story), but that can be changed when he comes back in season 4 probably

Idk but the prophecy having so much relevance as you finish s1 and s2 just makes me wish for a story where these highly privileged people with dragons acted for reasons for a cause that THEY believed were valid as they dragged everyone else into it including the smallfolk because tbqh even though they waged war all over, you can still feel this immense sadness over the fate of many of these characters

either way, I understand that much goes into making a TV show so I try to take it in good faith about choices they make, but idk I'm still so disappointed about this season

sorry for the word vomit :)

Yeah, there's a whole camp of the fandom that's disappointed Jace didn't get his flirty side quest. That being said, I do like the scenes that we do get of Jace in the show — even waaaaaaaaay back in season one, I loved how they characterized him.

You're right, anon; he IS shortsighted. Way back in the dinner scene in season one, we see Jace can play a political game of nuance and subtle jabs when he invites Helaena to dance as an insult to Aegon, but we also see him be the one to escalate things to violence by throwing the first punch. He's not above throwing petty insults, but he also throws a tantrum when those insults are returned in kind. He's not the innocent, even-keeled political savant some people think he is.

Even when I read the book, I always imagined Jace as a bit of an asshole in the same way a lot of insecure teenage boys are. Every political player in this overly privileged family is some level of asshole. (Which is also why I disagree with a lot of fans who say he would have made for a perfect king but that's another rant for another time.) And that's what makes them compelling characters.

That's why we needed to see that northern sojourn where Jace learns to somewhat chill. There's an obvious change in demeanor between season one Jace and season two Jace, and you can totally attribute that to him being given the space not to be on the defense all the time. The writers could have gone with the Sara Snow story, the Brokeback Winterfell angle, or something else entirely, and any of it would have worked.

Alas, the show's priorities are really obvious at this point. If it's not about Rhaenyra/Dany being the prophesized chosen one, they're not interested.

[snowblack-charcoalwhite]

Do you think that Aegon was whitewashed this season? As in, they realised they went too far with him in s1 and wanted to rectify it in s2 at the expense of other characters, mostly aemond and alicent. The problem is, you can't retcon everything. He is still a bully and rapist in show canon, but for some reason they now want to downplay it and focus on his incompetence, but also on him wanting to make something right while constantly being undermined by his family. I can't even enjoy such a confusing arc because it's inconsistent and manipulative. Also, it seems they wanted to nip Aemond's popularity and propping up Aegon at his expense apparently worked. It's true that TGC is extremely likeable, he was even in s1 when they wanted to show his character as a drunken rapist who doesn't understand consent, and he is now when they want to show Aegon as a tragic victim of his traitorous and unsupportive family. However, it's not enough to rely on actor's talent and charm when the writing is all over the place. Finally, I must say that I'm really disappointed with the green fandom, I even had to left their sub on Reddit because of the hate they constantly throw at Alicent and even more, Aemond. Like someone on other blog said, they never turned on Aegon after s1, they were relentlessly stanning him and blamed everything on the writers, but now won't do the same for aemond. Seriously, Aegon stans behave identically as Daemyra stans and that is something. It's sad because I've liked both since s1 but it's a fact that the green side of the fandom is much harsher and unjust to aemond, it's enough to check out the mentioned subreddit and some blogs here to get the picture.

Hello!

I think that Aegon's character was not so much whitewashed as used for a very unsavory purpose which was to make other Green characters, especially Aemond and Alicent look bad (here is the link to a post where I expressed my opinion on that matter). In order for that to work there was not a lot of actual embellishment needed - Aegon's story is a compelling and a tragic one as it is. The problem, however, lies in that the writers did their damnedest to use the most touching and relatable aspects of his arc to the detriment of other characters - who were supposed to love, cherish and support him.

As for the fandom reactions, I have always had an impression that among the hardcore TG supporters sympathies for Aegon run wider and deeper than for Aemond anyway. IMO there is a combination of various reasons at work here: him being the leader and the beating heart of his faction (in the book, that is), his incredible character journey, the way Tom's charm and charisma fill even the underdeveloped and kind of warped show version of Aegon with color and life (if we're talking about the adaptation) - and/or the simple fact that someone likes one character more than the other, sometimes even without being able to name a reason for it.

The thing is - while it doesn't sit right with me when people are not willing to cut one character some slack and at the same time cut the other (their favourite one) all of it - I can't really judge the favoritism per se: we are all human after all. What I do have hard time stomaching is the fans (in that case Aegon's - or more precisely exclusively or heavily prevalently Aegon's fans) being unnecessarily vicious about it.

As someone who loves both Aegon and Aemond, I for that exact reason have always felt disheartened by seeing fans of one Targtower brother shitting on the other one (or even worse, the fans getting personal with each other). Over the two years of being in the Tumblr fandom I have seen a number of posts made by Aemond's fans where they bashed Aegon by downplaying his good qualities and heavily focusing on the negativity ("useless drunk", "atrocious bully" etc) - and obviously have never agreed with them (to put it mildly) and am not about to start agreeing now. But - even in comparison with that - not even the amount of the posts but the intensity of the hate Aemond has been getting from Aegon's supporters is something else. And the worst part is that some of the posts I saw positively reek (sorry, I can't use any other word here) of schadenfreude. Guys, I understand the anger and frustration about having your character being heavily mistreated by the writers (which is exactly what happened to Aegon in season 1) - in fact I was right there with you when it happened. But now, when the exact same thing is happening to other character, maybe you can recall just how much it sucked and hold yourself back a little? Yes, Aemond is being brought down in great part by the script having him treat Aegon horribly, so your current lack of love for the former is understandable. But in season 1 the same was happening in reverse (although to a considerably milder degree - brotherly bullying, as shitty as it might be, doesn't equal an attempt on one's brother's life) - and in spite of some Aemond fans tearing Aegon to shreds in their blogs I personally saw far more people who like Aemond still expressing their irritation and outrage about the way Aegon was written in season 1. I am not trying to shut anyone up - but is making an effort to show some understanding and compassion for your fellow Greenies so much to ask? HotD has all but destroyed the Greens as a team and a family - but the fans don't have to (if you ask me - should not) mirror that atrocity.

[showmey0urfangs]

Now that the season is almost over, what is your opinion about the first 6 episodes?

Hi Anon! Well, if I'm being honest, the overall season was a massive letdown for me, though there were a lot of moments and scenes that I absolutely adored.

I know it's very frowned upon to express criticism and negative opinions on main, especially for a show like IWTV that so many people—myself included—are super passionate about. So I try to limit my scathing criticisms to my spaces and to priv discord servers. 😂

But to give you the short gist of it, I just felt that the writing this season was not as polished as it could have been. A lot of the characterization felt off, especially for Louis and Claudia (which I already detailed in another post). The characters' motivations don't make sense either, and it just felt like they were doing things because the plot needed it to happen. The twists and reveals fall flat because they are not properly set up and so they feel illogical and unearned.

A good example of that is Armand's "betrayal" at the end of ep 6. Because of the changes that were made to Louis and Claudia's relationship this season, it makes little to no sense why Armand would see her as a threat in any way. Other than her brief outburst in ep 4, Claudia never expresses any reticence to Louis and Armand's relationship, quite the opposite (i.e. the blood fat cocks convo in ep2). She simply dgaf and her issues with Louis have more to do with him being an asshole than with "choosing" Armand.

We also see Louis express many times (either directly or through Dreamstat) that he views Claudia as a burden. Their relationship had grown very strained and distant and as of ep 6, she no longer holds much of a place in his life, certainly not enough for Armand to see her as competition for Louis' affection. She was already out of Louis' life and getting ready to head out of town, presumably for good. So why would Armand want to "get rid of her" and why now?

Also, because they cut back a lot on the significance of Loumand's relationship, the dramatic reactions feel contrived and, again, unearned. They are not in love, they never shared any special or meaningful connection at any point. They were both simply using and manipulating each other for their own ends. So the "betrayal" is not so much a betrayal but rather Armand finally giving up on this dude who's kept him dangling for five years, giving him crumbs of affection and absolutely no love, respect or compassion. So of course, Armand would choose the coven he's known for 200+ years.

Overall it just felt like the writers couldn't figure out a good balance between making the story exciting and surprising to book readers, while also sticking to the same story beats as the book.

But to end on a positive note, every other aspect of the show was phenomenal; the acting, the set design, the costumes, the music. And I'd say it was still worth watching, if only for episode 5. It was my absolute favourite of the season. It felt like a return to form after the unevenness of the first half and you understand why once you know that it was the first thing they shot, before the strikes ground production to a halt. The writing in that ep was top tier and it gave me the same tingles that the S1 Pilot did, where I was like holy shit, how is this show real!? But unfortunately, things fall off again after that, which is really disappointing.

I'm really curious to see what the overall fandom consensus will be once the entire season has aired and we've all had time to digest it and reflect on it. But for me, this season suffered from the same infamous sophomore slump most tv shows do; it just wasn't able to live up the the first one.

[melrosing]

ngl jace's feelings kinda came out of nowhere cuz like in s1 he seemed to understand harwin was his biodad and reassured luke that it didn't matter what people said about them, but suddenly he's furious with rhaenyra and is insecure? i know the watsonian explanation is they needed him to hate the dragonseeds for whatever reason but there was absolutely nothing indicating jace ever had these insecurities. he had only been frustrated with rhaenyra coddling him. what gives?

I think it would’ve been fine if in peacetime where his inheritance feels like some distant thing he puts it to the back of his mind and yet in wartime it feels urgent and disturbing and consumes his thoughts, but I do feel they failed to show the journey between point A and point B. the problem w hotd s2 for me has been they haven’t really been showing effective character or plot development, there’s a lot of telling and not a lot of showing and it doesn’t make up for all the times the characters have felt static and unresponsive to the situations surrounding them. and Jace is v symptomatic of that imo. they are trying which is more than I can say for D&D who thought skipping over character development was a clever sleight of hand so that when the character did something wildly OOC they could say ‘aren’t you surprised!!’

but I think the hotd team have one thing really working against them here and that is that the source material requires them to make shit up, and so naturally results in audiences drawing contrast with GRRM’s own character craft in his main series. in F&B the characters largely lack arcs or interiority, and it’s meant to read like a history rather than a story, so the hotd team don’t have the character templates that D&D did (and still managed to fuck up lol) and lack a plot with appropriate arcs and beats. so they have to change a lot. but ASOIAF is known for its remarkable character work and plot twists and GRRM is a generational talent and you’d need some pretty strong writers to pull off something that measures up or even comes close. and I think the craft has been way off this season so. now we have characters like Jace who just feel like every interesting thing about them has come too late and underwritten at that

[mermaidsirennikita]

what are your thoughts on the genderswap with michael's character? i feel like that's another thing that the book readers and the non-book readers are going to fight about. (you can publish this if you want, and i understand if you'd rather not talk about the show!)

My main thought is: support the genderbend, do not support the introduction of Michaela this early (because I think it really invalidates Fran's love story with John, which the show could've explored really well). I would've held the trigger on introducing the eventual love interest whether they were Michael or Michaela.

To me, it seems like another opportunity for a poorly done love triangle. And what I think makes WHWW really solid as a book is that it isn't that.

I also personally don't love the idea of John AND Michaela really existing in relation to Fran finding herself. Maybe it won't be that! But based on Brownell's discussion of Francesca like, realizing there's something missing in her marriage, based on that scene (which I did watch) of her looking disappointed by her kiss with John, based on the line Violet had about forgetting her own name when she met Edmund and Fran then forgetting her own name with Michaela...

I don't know what they're trying to say about Fran's sexuality, it's early. It just FEELS to me that the "missing" line could relate to her not loving John sexually (or presumably romantically, as I don't think this show is going into romantic vs sexual attraction). But I could be wrong! And perhaps Fran's sexuality has nothing to do with her not loving John, though I'm not sure how they would find the time to map out "I am attracted to both men and women and I just don't love my husband even though it seemed like I did for most of the season". I suspect that they're going down the comphet -> married John -> realizations occur route. But again, I could be wrong.

And in the hands of good writers? I think that could be a really authentic story. The idea of this being realized, however, through a love triangle (and I don't know how they avoid that, introducing Michaela as early as they have... she's not going to just sit there and not have Fran be attracted to her, based off their first meeting) is really messy to me. I don't mean in the sense that we can't tell messy queer love stories; we can and should. I mean that we can't divorce John as a CHARACTER from the story. I don't love the idea of him existing as an obstacle, versus as someone who has his own love story.

That latter part? Is where it starts to feel like... John as a character who exists to prop up a white woman's journey. Much like it felt Simon did for Daphne, at points, in s1. And if John feels that way, I worry for Michaela, too.

Ultimately, I feel like I would've had this kind of conflicted feeling regardless of who was genderbent, though, because I just don't really feel like this show has the writing it needs for this. Which doesn't mean I think the show shouldn't do it; it means I think the show as a whole is like... the core issue.

And I guess it's like "but they wanted to make sure they got queer rep added in so they introduced Michaela now versus later". Sure, but you didn't have to introduce Michaela now in order to have queer rep in the show. You could tell Fran and John's story pre-Michael/Michaela organically AND feature... one of the other siblings also being queer.... Cressida being queer... Both....... There was a way to tell this story and OTHER queer love stories with more nuance. To be fair, though, I don't really think the show has approached any storyline with nuance. This is the "one of THEM fell in love with one of US" show. This is the show that featured homophobia in-universe from the jump for absolutely no reason.

What I'd personally rather see than the show itself, of course, is adaptations stories that involved people of color and queer people falling in love canonically from the start, but hey.

[backjustforberena]

Do you feel like changing alyn and Addams’s ages changed the dynamic of corlys and rhaenys for the worst? I feel like with the being older, it feels like rhaelys is built on kinda a lie. But I understand that if they were the age that they were in the books, Jace and baela’s age, it wouldn’t look great either

It's a really hard question to answer because we don't know so much. We don't know what it actually means for Alyn and Addam to be older, in relation to Corlys and Rhaenys's marriage. We don't even know what age they are.

And we don't know what the plotline might've been like, had the showrunners chosen to make Alyn and Addam younger and that's a plotline with huge possibilities in terms of how you want to play it or write it, especially if the writers wanted to pretend they were Laenor's or make them Laenor's - it's just... it's not something we can compare because we don't have those strict examples to contrast against one another.

I imagine it might have hurt more because they'd have been conceived during the time we've got to know Corlys and Rhaenys, as opposed to happening during a time before the series is set. But I can't say anything for certain. We definitely wouldn't have the scenes that we have, if they weren't aged up. We wouldn't have the characters that we have, either.

I think the idea of it being "built on a lie" is dramatic. By which I mean, I don't feel that way, at all. I was actually surprised by how little it felt relevant to the relationship issues that Corlys and Rhaenys were having at the time of her death. But I'm also the sort of person who looks at things both outside and inside the narrative.

Eve and Steve did not know that Alyn and Addam were going to be cropping up. Neither had read the books, it wasn't pitched to them, so it came as a surprise in S2. All they had, in S1, to play was the fact that Corlys and Rhaenys loved each other. The producers told them nothing, and Steve has stated that he's yet to have a proper conversation or wrap his head around what might have been the circumstances in which Corlys has these children. Which suggests to me, that the show has yet to create a concrete scenario. And also that Ryan was being really quite crappy to the actors.

It's easy to look at that as those scenes in Series 1 then being "built on a lie": how could they be truthful, if the actors didn't have the whole story or information? It's unlikely that they would have been played exactly the same if they had known. Though, not impossible, certainly given the outspoken affection Steve and Eve have displayed in having the chance to play that romanticism.

I choose, and it's easier for my mind, to look at it another way. By removing that information (of the infidelity), it makes that information irrelevant.

So, the trust and the love and the respect and the relationship shown in those scenes are just the feelings that they have in those scenes and that is completely valid. If we now look at those scenes as times when Rhaenys is aware of all of this, then that's not stopped her or impeded her loving Corlys to the amount she shows in the whole of Season 01. The truth in those scenes is the way they are with each other. It's not cancelled out or sullied by past behaviours. It's simply that past behaviours are irrelevant.

I take all of this at face value because that's all we can do. It's what was played, it's what we get, it's what we have to work with. And it's actually also really hard to go back and fit any sort of theory or meta onto those scenes because the facts that we do have are pretty flipping dire. They're just muddy and simple and confusing. This is what we have, from the screen, and this is also what the actors know, so this is only what can be played:

At some unspecified time, Corlys has two children outside of his marriage with an unspecified woman in unspecified circumstances for an unspecified reason in an unspecified sort of relationship.

At some, also unspecified, time, Rhaenys finds out about these children in some unspecified way. She has an unspecified reaction to it.

Corlys and Rhaenys never speak of it. Corlys and Rhaenys have the marriage that we see on-screen.

Other things that are shown or can be assumed:

Corlys is greatly shamed by his actions and has built no relationship with these two sons at all and also has no relationship with the mother.

Rhaenys is confident that the affair was a long time in the past (she refers to the mother in past tense) and holds no fear of repetition. It is implied that she found out years ago, and has simply never met Alyn. The revelation for us, as an audience, is not a revelation for the character.

But, other than that. We have nada. Zip. So, how can we judge it? Let alone apply it to our overall picture of the marriage? We can choose to minimize it or catastrophise it, both are valid options. But my ultimate takeaway is that it's just... ineffectual. It's not a bombshell. It's not something that has ripped them asunder. Even if they've yet to work through it, it's not something that's destroyed them because the marriage and the love has continued for decades. And they do love each other. Fiercely.

If Rhaenys hadn't known, then perhaps we could feel betrayed because she would feel betrayed in that moment of discovery. But she did, and we don't get that moment of discovery and of betrayal. In all those scenes when Corlys held her in her arms and she worried about his life and he sought to reassure her and they smiled and grieved and stood together, she knew about this hidden part of his life.

Even going into S2, when Eve would have been aware of this plotline, we have these scenes of love still played: Rhaenys and Corlys having had sex, confiding in each other, taking care of each other, being physically intimate, having picnics etc etc. At some point, the affair and these children became irrelevant to how they conducted their marriage. Whether that's implying Rhaenys's forgiveness or Corlys's denial, is up to you. But for me, that makes everything we've seen utterly truthful.

I hope I've explained that well enough. If you want to follow up, please do. I'm still trying to work out my feelings on it all but I will continue to passionately support and enjoy this ship.

[chainofclovers]

Hacks 3x9 (& etc.) thoughts

YEAH!

So !!!!! about everything

It felt really obvious to me that Deborah was lying to Ava about Steve ("you could take me shopping"??? fuck all the way off) and the way the lie and the very, very genuine hurt of their fight and the stone-cold perfect execution of the blackmail unfurls is....glorious. I love that Ava has grown enough to listen to her manager and do the thing that makes sense for her career (and that really will make the Late Night show great if it's gonna be great!), but is also showing that hunger she has. In s1 that hunger didn't really have a direction, and in s2 she just wanted to get back into Deborah's good graces, and all the growth of s3 just put her into the perfect position to feel TRULY betrayed but also to find leverage and it worked so well and I love, love, love it.

And I love all the heartbreak hurtling its way towards Deborah. Her sister has rejected her with a finality that feels more lasting (even though I wouldn't be surprised if we haven't seen the last of Kathy). And Ava has finally distinguished herself as someone capable of playing the game, which means Deborah can no longer trust that deep down, Ava's devotion is boundless. (Even if maybe it still is a little bit on some level who's to say :sweat-smile:.) What happens when Marcus finally tells her he's leaving? How lonely is she going to feel then? And when will she notice?

My wife is very smart and when we were chatting about our predictions for this episode, she said she felt certain this season would end with Ava and Deborah very much working together because the real stakes of this season are the stakes of getting and keeping Late Night. She was completely right. Obviously there's new betrayal, new tension, but it's all part of the age-old selfishness of Deborah's ambitions, which she hasn't learned how to have her own control of even if she thinks she's in control.

The Biff Cliff scene felt very slightly heavy-handed to me, but the more I ponder the more I'm like. Nah. That was needed. Because Deborah is STILL seeking advice and input and understanding from the sorts of men who will never, ever feel compelled to put in the same effort to understand her. She's grown..the whole sequence in 3x4 in which she defends bisexuality to her comedy idols and listens in through the vent and comes home to fight with Ava????? And when she actually listens at the town hall?????...but that was never gonna be a perfectly linear thing. And Ava learns that lesson the hard way.

When the makeup artist finds out Ava is a writer and thinks she needs to redo her makeup and gets her a pencil to hold in the photoshoot? I was HOWLING.

I love this show so much. So much. Ahhhhhhhh. This was so disjointed but I watched before work and it's gonna be a hell of a day and I just had to get my initial thoughts out beyond just screaming with my wife (who has now left for work so I can't even do that again for hours).

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

I know that you dislike how Aegon was portrayed in the show, but I really like alot of the elements they added to his character. The decision to invent an entirely original character just for him to assault was one of the strangest choices by the writers. However, I appreciate how they depicted his relationship with his parents. For instance, Viserys adored baby Aegon because he thought he could be a replacement for Balon. But as Aegon grew older and began to resemble his mother, he was no longer what Viserys wanted. Balon's shadow still looms over Aegon even in his adulthood. This is very similar to the dynamic between Tywin&Tyrion, and how Joanna's shadow still looms over both of them. Aegon's relationship with his mother is also very interesting. She loves him because he is her firstborn, but she also resents him. She believes that by crowning him, she could save him, but that's what ultimately leads to his death. There's so much to Aegon's character in the show, but most of it has been left unexplored. I wish that in S2, instead of vilifying him even further, they would explore the elements they added to his character.

Actually, I agree with a lot of this. It's mostly the invention of the OC to assault that I take issue with, and the way the show's writers can't seem to decide if they want Aegon to be an outright villain or a more grey character (which I think he certainly was in the book). But this is how a lot of the S1 characterization went. Given the time jumps, they had a hard time establishing a consistent characterization that felt like it developed organically over time. It's fine to have characters act in an inconsistent way, but you have to establish that this character has two warring sides and why. As GRRM likes to say, his favorite stories are about the human heart in conflict with itself. A character can do things that are unexpected or against their own interests, but we need to understand the conflict. Aegon really only got a handful of episodes in S1, so it's not surprising that his character is undeveloped compared to Alicent or Rhaenyra or Daemon.

There are lots of things I do like about the show's portrayal of Aegon though, and some of it is down to TGC's acting choices, but some of it is on the page. I think actually the show did the best job with the writing of younger Aegon in episodes 6 and 7, where you really see a spark of happiness in Aegon dim from the start of episode 6 to the end of episode 7 as the weight of expectations settles upon him. I also like that the show has made Aegon more or less an abused and neglected child. While I don't think that Alicent is an abusive parent per se, she and Otto both get physical with him even when he's not done anything (the kick to the ribs from Otto I think does cross a line). From episode 6 onward, there's not an episode in which Aegon is not being manhandled to some degree, and I think that's a really interesting choice. He's kicked around and slapped and grabbed and all of this culminates in him finally being metaphorically shoved onto a throne against his will. I think it gives this sense with Aegon that he is never really allowed to exist as his own person, that his very body isn't his own. He is either a vessel for kingship (and thus the protection of his family) or he is a representation the challenge he poses to Rhaenyra. His feelings don't matter, his wants don't matter, his pain doesn't matter. His father, very literally, erases him, and he's raised believing his sister probably wants him dead. I think it feeds very well into his hedonism, and I'd like to see that explored more.

But I agree that Season 2 should develop his character, rather than vilifying him further. I don't actually think show!Aegon is a total lost cause but the writers are treading a thin line with him. Most of what I enjoy about book!Aegon hasn't happened yet on the show, and there will be plenty of time post-Rook's Rest for Aegon to reflect upon his life and his choices, so let's hope they use it! A lot of people die in the Dance but we've got Aegon until the last episode or so, so the show really needs to make sure he's compelling to people who aren't already invested in his book character.

[duchezss]

Honestly I think jwcc is gonna be roman empire forever, more specifically S4 and 5, because of how much the writers ruined all of their characters arcs and growths.

I think S1-3 were just perfect. Ok maybe they weren't actually perfect, but for they were setting out to do it was superb. The writers were establishing dynamics and relationships and conflicts, external and internal, so well. It's almost hard to believe that such a grounded brilliant story fell apart in the last two seasons. I generally cannot fathom how they were the same writers. For example, in S3 Ben and Darius have this long arc about forgiving each other and coming to understand each other after the monorail. It was beautiful and slow paced and just a great character study. So when the end of S3 happened, and Darius and Kenji were clearly fighting, I figured they would kinda do the same thing for them. Instead the two forgave each other in less then five minutes and then they just never speak on it again. I can't be only one that just finds that so odd?

Another thing I think really ruined the show was the forced romance between Brooklynn and Kenji. It was out of left field, it didn't make sense, and it completely undermined their characters. To me, the show always presented their bond as brother and sister, but honestly if the writers had done it better maybe (MAYBE) I could've gotten behind it. They just made it so hard to route for them. First of all because of the romance, the two of them weren't really allowed to interact with the others. Like yes they did, but not in meaningful ways like they had before. Also something that irks me to no end is them playing off Kenji so vigorously trying to save Brooklynn at the end of S3 only because he had a crush on her. That's such a misinterpretation of his character, because S3 Kenji would've acted like that if ANY of the crew were in that situation. They became the only family he ever had, and to say that all of that was just because of a crush? Oh don't get be started. Also it just made Brooklynn a shell of the character she once was. I was so upset in S5 when the only thing she got to do was mope about Kenji's betrayal. She deserved more development and screen time, and just everything really. Their romance did a huge disservice to them both.

Third point, I really hate how they played off everyone not having PTSD, especially Darius. I was very happy that Yaz had that arc in S5 and how they showed how it really got to her. But when the rest of the group said everyone was fine, especially Darius? The same Darius that felt endlessly burdened with leading? The same Darius that had nightmares about his father and Ben after he lost them? The same Darius that let everything get to him even when he knew it shouldn't? THE SAME CHARACTER THAT WAS ALONE ALL OF S4 AND THE WRITERS DID NOTHING WITH??? Ohhhh one day these writers will pay for the way they sidelined THEIR MAIN CHARACTER. Darius deserved that arc, and he deserved an arc that allowed him to step out of the leadership role. Like yes that was technically S4, but it was handled in such a bad way and it really didn't present any growth for him or the crew. Just a wasted opportunity.

I think at their core, the problems with S4 and S5 lie with the direction the writers wanted to take it. As soon as the group ended up at this highly technological island I knew it was over. Not to say advanced stuff is bad, the hybrids were always sick, and I even thought the mind controlling was a good moral dilemma, but everything else? It was so tiring and frustrating, like damn I don't care about the brads or this island, or these random ass characters you introduced. I think the writers just really lost sight of what made the show so great in the first place, the main characters. Yes the plot was amazing, but the brilliant cast of characters and their ever changing dynamics and lives was what really brought it home. When you erase all of the development you've been building up for three seasons in favor of a incredulously complicated and over done plot that side lined your main cast what can you expect? It seems voltron was in fact a harbinger for this show. One day dreamworks will learn how to not fall off mid show, but it appears that's not any time soon.

[blair-the-juggalho]

Guess who's back lmao. I had another idea and you're one of my favourite twdg writers so I came back. First up, take as long as you need on this, attend to any requests that came before mine before feeling the need to write this.

(Twdg season 1)

You know how after the Motel is attacked, Lilly shoots Carley/Doug? (S1) What if there was like a young pre-teen/teen reader (say, somewhere from 11 to 13.) and whoever Lilly aimed for, she either accidentally missed or the reader protected carley/doug, and the bullet hit the reader in the shoulder/arm (so not fatal just a bit like "bruh"). What would the reactions of the motel gang be? taking into consideration Lilly just shot a literal child 🤣

(I'm sorry if this is oddly specific but I had the idea with it and in your rules you asked for as much specification as possible) if any of this doesn't make sense feel free to ask me because I kind of rambled lmao. If you can't do this for any reason or you struggle to, i completely understand. Have a good day!

Ty! And yeh I do really appreciate the specifics and tysm for all of that yer totally so sweet!!! <<<333

Hope this will do, lovely!!!!

TWDG season 1 group reacting to Lily shooting (but not killing!) a preteen!reader

Lee

To say this man was pissed was an understatement

He didn’t care if Lilly meant it for someone else 1. There was no need to shoot an innocent person and 2. You just fucking shot a kid!

Idc what way you played with part wether you let her stay or no there is no was lee would let her come with you guys after that

After kicking Lilly to the curb he’d go back to you and gently carry you back to the RV before finding anything he can to patch you up

He’s so stressed and annoyed!

He wishes he could’ve gone back in time and changed it

He will fully take care of you till you make a full recovery!

He’d go through hell and back to get any medical supplies you need too<3

Kenny

He too was so pissed!

Like he’s shouting and screaming at Lilly

It’s by gods mercy that he didn’t shoot her

He tells everyone to help you get inside and find anything to stop the bleeding

I don’t have to say this because it’s obvious but he’s not letting her come with the group

As you all drive away he keeps shouting and cursing

It’s not very helpful but it’s all he can really do

Katjaa keeps telling him to calm down but yk that’s not gonna happen

He keeps a close eye on you while you recover and he gets a little (a fucking lot) over protective of you

Katjaa

She wasn’t there too see you get shot but as soon as she heard the gun shot she panicked

She put duck down in a chair and told him to stay calm and not too look

Once she saw you she started tearing up

She felt so bad for you!

She’d tell everyone to keep calm as she tried to bandage your wounds

She’d be at your side 100% of the time and would make sure your as comfortable as you can be

Duck

He also didn’t see everything go down but this kid was so upset

You where one of his best friends (mainly because there where only two other kids in the group, one being you) and he was you you bleeding and in so much pain!

He was already bit and seeing you shot made it so much worse :(

He was willing to share any supplies you needed to help you recover btw!

He’d do anything for his amazing best friend!

He couldn’t really help you out at all or even take your mind of it because he was too sick to do anything

But he’d use any energy he did have to ask if your ok or make a silly joke <:)

Clementine

She was traumatised oml

She saw her best friend get shot

She screamed and burst out into tears!

Lee told her to closer her eyes and not look at you while they patched you up, but she didn’t want to leave your side

So she stood in a place where you could see her and closed her eyes, every so often taking a peek and giving you a sympathetic smile

After you got bandaged up she’s stay by you and got you whatever you wanted

This one time the group stopped off to get some supplies are they came back to see her routing threw all the cupboards

“What are you doing, clem?” -group member

“I’m trying to find a snack for (name)! They wanted one :(“

Lilly

She felt so bad!

She didn’t mean to shoot you!

She totally froze, unable to say or do anything

Before the group forced her to leave and everyone inside she gave you one final look of worry and regret

She knew that leaving the group was the best thing for them and she wishes that you survive the shooting

That always sticks with her, the guilt may of died down after a few years but the memory never leaves

She always stills wonders if you made it

And if you wanna drag this idea to season 4 she will definitely bring it up to clem

Doug

He totally freaked!

He felt so bad!

That bullet was meant for him (and ben) and yet you got shot :(

The guilt he felt was something he was never going to live down.

This man would risk death to get you any supplies you need for your recovery, it’s the least he can do.

It’s so obvious he feels bad like when Katjaa was patching you up he couldn’t look at you for more than a second

After your recovery he tries and shows you how grateful he is!

He’d either tell you that you where one brave kid and he’s very thankful for that

And/or he’d find you some old teddy that he’d think you’d like!

Carley

Like Doug she felt so bad!

She was shocked at first but then anger took over and she started screaming at Lilly

She helped you get inside and find anything to patch you up

All the time ever during your recovery you could hear her angrily shit talking Lilly for what she did to you

Like Doug, she was obviously a little guilty and would tell you that she was grateful of what you did but she wouldn’t let the guilt consume her forever

But she’s always looking out for you now more than ever

Ben

This poor dude was too shocked to do anything!

He just watched in horror

This was all because of him (and Lilly) but he felt so much guilt!

He never stopped feeling guilty

He doesn’t know what to do at all

He does get you anything you need!

But he just can’t look at you :(

It probably takes him a good few months just to be able to look at you

The only thing you can really get out of him is

“…so uh how are you?”

He just don’t know what to do he wishes he could just go back and stop all of this