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millersfinest · 6 months ago

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the thing in your chest that beats | e.w

santa barbara!ellie williams & ex-firefly!reader

wc: 5k

mini-series: california (you’re here) | oregon | idaho | wyoming

blurb: you put up a good fight with those rattlers, but it wasn’t good enough—all it got you was strung up near a beach where the sun scorched you dry. abruptly, their set-up gets fucked by their own prisoners, saving your life by only a thread. but the wrath that lingered under your skin was immense, and you’re not the only one to experience that phenomenon. when another damaged soul encounters your brittle state; the dreams that put you in a tough position manifest into reality. along with a few extra miscellaneous things…

cw: angry!r, mentions of fate, santa barbara arc, infected, shooting, lots of exposition, torture, violence, vulgar language, slow-burn romance, eventual smut, proximity trope, both reader and ellie on a path of redemption.

note: this first part is lowkey boring imo, but i hope the angst makes up for it. as always, please enjoy my hyperfixation!!

California

Ropes chafed at your skin; securing your legs and wrists on top of each other to the wooden post. Fog had shielded the setting sun from your skin—after many hours of being scorched. Your muscles ached and your bones were sore. The exposed skin on your shoulders and chest was dry and flaking, exposing an under layer of tenderness. Everything fucking hurt. But you were barely there; head nodding off from the scratching at your stomach and the dryness in your mouth ripping your lips apart.

How did you, a firefly, militarily trained, end up tied to a pillar at the cusp of a beach in Santa Barbara?

You were simply at the wrong place at the wrong time. This group searched for people like you—lonely and pillaged by the weight of the world. You were too distracted to foresee their deception; they got lucky with you.

Until the chemical reactions in your brain short-circuited, causing you to act out in the name of self-preservation.

Wrath, by definition, is a trait you’re easily overcome with. It’s not just something that passes through you like other traits and emotions. It holds on. It makes a home in your body and directs you like a rabid dog—a burdening feeling that nestled between your sore muscles. It filled you with adrenaline to kill and destroy—to get rid of the people who tried to get rid of you.

And, every time, you managed to find yourself feeling bad about it. There was no explanation for that. Just your heart being too sensitive for world you existed in—it was constantly broken. By yourself and your circumstances.

It was your own fault that you were captured by the rattlers. You should’ve never left Catalina Island for a pipe dream. There wasn’t anything better than the firefly base—you should’ve known that and never left. Perhaps, if you had remained under the duty of your earned dog tags, you wouldn’t have been thrusted into the situation that you were in.

Wyoming was a lie that you told yourself because you wanted to live a life that didn’t exist.

Locked in a debate with death, your body abruptly hit the dense surface of the sand. The ropes that bound you to that skewer had been severed by a fallen angel. A prisoner you had attached yourself to in the hopes of survival. Her hair was coily and reflected copper under the Californian sun.

You came to from the impact, finally beginning to hear the ongoing gunfire coming from the resort buildings. As you twitched in pain, she cut the bindings at your wrists and ankles. Tucking a pistol into your hand, she muttered words of hope. “Good luck out there, hotshot.”

Your lips moved to respond, but there wasn’t any sound. It didn’t matter, though, because she wasn’t around to hear it. The young woman at once took off in the opposite direction of the chaos with a bag over her shoulder.

Stuck in a dilemma, you didn’t move for a few moments. Eyes stuck on the weight in your weak hands. It was nothing but a black semi-automatic—it weighed nothing compared to bigger firearms. However, it sunk your hand into the sand as if it weighed a ton. You couldn’t even hold a gun with the same conviction that you used to. Yet, the fallen angel had faith that you could.

Taking in a deep wheezing breath, you tried to stand to your feet. You got up enough for your knees to bend, but once you extended them, you crashed back into the sand with a thud. In temporary defeat, you looked to the people still suspended on the pillars. They were unmoving, rotting away from the inside out. That could’ve been you if it weren’t for her cutting you down.

In mourning them, you gave standing another attempt. Keeping your hands low to catch your fall. But you didn’t fall. The muscles in your legs were weak, trembling as you stretched them. With a hunch in your back, you grabbed the gun, adjusting it in your hands. Your professional form remained the same as remnants of your training. Placing your hands over one another on the handle, supporting its weight. Aiming the barrel toward nothing specific, just to get the feeling again. It’s been months since you had opportunity to defend yourself.

With as much quickness that you could muster, you went through the resort to grab supplies. A backpack, medkit, and some food.

Setting your mind on leaving, you tried to sneak through the gunfire between the prisoners and the rattlers. But that simply wasn’t in the cards for you.

Before you could escape the resort, one of them had a bone to pick with you. It was the same rattler that was your deceptive captor. She used her femininity to convince you that she needed help—that she was weak and she needed your help. If anything, you have a bone to pick with her.

She had come at you with her bear hands, pushing your face up against a wall. She tore the backpack from your back, throwing it to the side. Where did her wrath come from? Somehow, you managed to get the upper hand. Straddling her body delivering punches that you haven’t in awhile. It felt natural to you to release such violence against another person.

Through beating her bloody, you found your power again. Tearing off the shimmering dog tags around her neck that had previously belonged to you. Heaving, you looked down at her. She had split your lip and broken your nose, but you could argue that you did worse to her. Her nose was cracked in multiple places, as she coughed up her own blood and teeth. It slipped down the crevices of her face, dribbling into her brown eyes.

“Fuck you.” You firmly speak, picking up your bag from its straps, swinging it around your shoulders.

From the fight, you had stumbled into a room of firearms. Still weak, you limped around. Causing you to walk away from the damage with a Beretta A300 shotgun and ammunition.

Like it was a prize after a big challenge.

You found yourself stumbling along the sand of the beach you were stuck on. This time, closer to the foggy waters of the coast. Ignoring the throbbing sensation in your thigh. You were barely sentient, running on nothing but fumes. But you knew you had to get as far from Santa Barbara as you could.

All of sudden, darkness began encapsulating your eyes from the outside in. Your limbs grew heavier, slowing down the pace of your movements—you collapsed into the sand like the damsel you had become.

When your eyes fluttered open, you were laying on an itchy couch. Waking up felt like awaking from a coma. Sitting up was a chore because of the tightness of your muscles. You felt it like a sickness in your chest. Trying to move your legs, you sucked in a pained breath. A hole that was cut into your ripped jeans was covered by white wrapping. Gauze.

A single lantern in the middle of the living room illuminated the space. It was placed on a dusty coffee table—off-center. Your backpack and weapons leaned against an entertainment center; a large cabinet that combined the use of compartments as well as a space for the tv to fit.

Blinking slowly, you tried to remember how you got there. Fingers gripping at the cushions, experiencing a crazy amount of brain fog. A wrapper crackled under the weight of your hand as you shifted. It was a granola bar tucked under the pillow that you laid your head on.

You stomach scratched at your abdomen, so you wasted no time in retrieving it—ripping open the wrapper and biting into the nutty granola. The side of your foot kicked over a metal canister, accidentally. Clashing toward the scratched wooden floors, it startled you. Reaching down, you shook it in your hands. There was a liquid inside. Screwing the lid off, you realized it was only water. Something else your body demanded of you.

Who put all this stuff here? It couldn’t have been you.

A creak from the side of the room, caused you to snap your head in that direction. Chewing slowly on the oats in your mouth, your eyebrows scrunched. Your free hand felt your hip from the cool metal of that gifted pistol, but there was nothing but the fabric of your jeans.

By the time she came into your view, your body froze. Your gun was across the room, she had the advantage. She loomed in the darker parts of the room as if she were hiding from you—in a way that was prey-ish, rather than predatory.

“I didn’t think you’d wake up…”

Her voice was raspy, and she spoke with a slow cadence. When she came into the light, she kept her distance. By the corner of the entertainment center cabinet—on the opposite end of where your bag was laying. Her auburn strands were choppy and tucked behind her ears. She wore a white t-shirt that was filthy with, what looked like, blood and dirt. Hands fidgeting with each other in front of her body as she eyed you with concern. She was missing her pinky and ring finger from her left hand. “You’d been out for hours… I, uhm, stitched up a wound on your leg— thought you might’ve caught an infection.”

She lacked conviction when she spoke to you. Voice leaving with a sort of emptiness, or perhaps, guilt. “Where’d you find me?” You asked, gritting your jaw. Holding onto the metal canister tight enough to use as a weapon if need be. That last thing you wanted was to be fooled by a stranger again.

She cleared her throat. “The beach.”

That’s when it hit you. The memories of your weakness hit. You remember dragging your legs through the sand, catching the glimpse of a body sitting in the water beside a vacant boat, then falling into a deep sleep. Of course, you, somehow, offered yourself up to a stranger.

It was just your luck, huh?

“There were others you could’ve helped… Why me?”

A scoff fell from her lips. Scarred eyebrows jutting together; an attitude washing over her freckled features. As if your words were charged with something else besides cautious curiosity. “I was expecting more of a thank you...”

You blinked, sucked your teeth. “I don’t know you from a can of fucking paint— so, you should lower your expectations.” You retorted, boring your eyes into her slender figure. What alarmed her was how your voice scolded gently. It cut deeper that way. “I mean, what is that on your shirt? Blood? Would you wanna thank some stranger in a bloody shirt?”

She crossed her arms, shaking her head. “Have you seen yourself?” Her thick eyebrow raised, voice dropping an octave. “You look like shit—“

You glanced at the shirt that clung to you perspiring body. It also had remnants of blood and dirt and sand. Leaning your elbows on your thighs, you leaned forward. “Fuck you! You have no idea what I’ve been through—!”

“And you know what I’ve been through?” She countered, scoffing after her words.

You talked over each other—barking like unfamiliar dogs. Wrath came easy to you; and, apparently, it came easy to her, too. Her words silenced you, but you grit your teeth. “I should’ve left you where I found you— fuckin’ joke’s on me.” She ran a hand through her short hair, taking long strides out of the living room. Preparing to sink back into the corner she came from.

Clearing your throat, you swallowed your pride. There was a sincerity behind her eyes that you couldn’t ignore. Her anger radiated off her epidermis is such a way that it was familiar. “All right,” You sighed, positioning your body slowly to face her departing figure. She’d stopped in her path, peering over her boney shoulder. “I don’t recognize you from the cells… Or the pillars. Who the fuck are you?” Your eyebrows furrowed, voice weakening by the mention of your greatest failure: becoming a slave to the weirdest assholes known to man.

Wheels shifted in her mind, her olive eyes flickering around in the dark, in thought. Lips opening and closing, trying to formulate her words—but there was no use. She decided to resume her steps, sequestering herself in a bedroom. You heard the sound of the door shutting and locking the door behind her.

Groaning, you shut your eyes, leaning your head against the soft, itchy pillows, frustrated.

Unbeknownst to you, she’d locked herself in that room because she found herself overcome with emotion—hot, streaming tears. She didn’t know you as much as you didn’t know her, and she wasn’t going to share her own greatest failures with you. If what you were saying was true, you were victimized. How could someone like her talk to someone like you? After the things she’s done… After the things she was prepared to do.

The sun ascended, with the two of you lingering in separate rooms. You had eventually fallen asleep after some hours in your thoughts. Wondering about the story of the woman sheltering herself from you. Multiple times, you had to stop yourself from dwelling. This is what got you caught up with the first time. Instead, you began to think about what your plans were.

Were you going to resume your journey to Wyoming, in the hopes of finding that settlement? Or were you going to hitch it back to Catalina Island? And hope to God that they take you back with minimal consequences. Dwelling on those thoughts, instead of her, is what brought you to sleep.

When you woke up, you finished the metal canister of water. Giving the room a proper once-over. Sun rays cascaded through the dusty windows like beams, illuminating the room, angelically. Taking a deep breath, you decided to walk around. The soreness in your body hadn’t changed—you still felt burdened by your own body.

The home was a single-leveled Tuscan inspired home. Its interior was riddled with browns and beiges. Dragging your feet against the wooden floor, you entered the kitchen. All the cabinets were blown open and searched through. You assumed it was that woman who you’d met—still, you didn’t know her name.

Looking down at the counters, there was a yellow-paged note on the furthest one from you. The island closest to her bedroom. It was lying under a pill bottle. You shifted as quickly as you could to the note, sliding the pill bottle to the side, but not without a glance. They were antibiotics.

Found the antibiotics in the cabinets this morning, there’s only two left. Take them both.

I left to go hunt for some food. Stay in the house if you know what’s best for yourself. There’s infected around.

I’ll be back soon.

— E

You scoffed, rolling your eyes. “If I know what’s best for myself…” Pressing into the top of the bottle, you unscrewed it. With nothing but your saliva, you knocked back two of the pills just like she told you. However, not because she told you to. There were many reasons for you to catch an infection from the wound on your leg—the wound you didn’t even remember how you got.

“I can handle infected.” You muttered to yourself. It’s been awhile since you really dealt with them face-to-face, but it was an innate ability. Why wouldn’t you be able to defend yourself from infected? Your only limits were your body stuck in its state of pain.

But, where you come from, sometimes it took movement to heal pain. Pushing through soreness and tightness was the only way to move forward.

So, instead of waiting around for E to come back around. You decided to explore some of the nearby houses. Ones that were only a few paces away from the house that you were currently in—you weren’t that stupid.

You secured your backpack around your shoulders, hooking the strap of your shotgun around your arm, and sticking the pistol in the back of your jeans. The first stop was next door. Slowly, you had climbed through a broken window. Landing in a bedroom decorated with childish posters. Focusing, you found yourself busy with looting the home. Taking things of importance and putting them inside of your bag.

You didn’t run into anything shocking until the third place you visited—three houses down. Thankfully, there was no clicking, but there were the familiar wailings of a runner. Catching a glimpse of coily copper hair, huddled over sobbing in her hands, you crouched behind a wall. Eyes shifting from side to side, trying to digest the visual.

Good luck, hotshot.

Perhaps, it was her who really needed the luck. Slowly, you removed the gun from your shoulder, leaning it against the wall. The breaths from your lips fled in chunks, pulling the gifted pistol from your waistband. You had known her for the entirety of your stay at that treacherous resort—she was your anchor. She helped you with your anger, keeping you under an emotional routine. Later, it worked for the worst instead of the better, but she tried to help you in there. She was patient with you.

You stepped from the wall, aiming the chamber of the pistol at the back of her head. You didn’t know her for that long, but you knew she wouldn’t want something like this for herself. She had plans just like you did—she wanted out of California. Leaving her to stumble around this broken home would be fucked up.

She freed you. Now, it was time for you to free her.

“You deserved better than this, Honey.” She was sweet and tangy like honey; that’s why you called her that. It wasn’t even her name—you didn’t know her name.

Your index finger squeezed the trigger, sending the bullet straight through her unsuspecting mind. Her whines were more coherent, meaning that all of that just happened. The infection had just taken over. A tear had slipped down the fat of your cheek when her body hit the ground. The shot echoing against the walls and through the neighborhood.

She lasted no longer than a day on her own, and those rattlers were nothing but the blame. They drained you enough to make you suffer but keep you working. But, out on the road, you stood no chance.

There was a piece of notebook paper on the floor by the baseboards of the wall Honey’s body laid beside. With a lump in your throat, you plucked it from the ground, holding it delicately in your hands.

After months of captivity, I’ve found myself in a situation that I could have never imagined. I didn’t notice when the clicker bit me, everything happened so fast!

It hurts now, though, a lot. And the anticipation of the infection is worser than I expected it to be. This is the part where I put a gun in mouth to end it all.

I’m too tired to do that. For once, I don’t wanna fight.

I apologize to those who end up witnessing what I have become.

The palm of your hand covered your mouth in shock as you read the letter. Honey must’ve been horrified. And it hurt to know that she went through it all alone.

Catching you in a grieving state, E had vaulted through a broken window with her gun in hand. Her olive eyes landed on you, subsiding the subtle look of shock on her face. “I thought I told you to stay in the house.” She tucked the pistol into the waistband of her jeans, sighing. “You’re in no condition to travel alone…” Her eyes casted onto your frame leaning over a marble counter, reading over the letter silently.

Hearing her footsteps, you folded up the letter and slid it into your back pocket. Taking a final look at the dead woman on the floor, a reflection of your friend that didn’t exist anymore, you brush past the the auburn-haired woman. Shoulders grazing as you achingly climb out of the same window she came in from.

Without saying, what happened to Honey worried you. Loneliness was a cruelty that many could afford—you experienced it. But loneliness along with bodily ailments wasn’t a problem you wanted. If it weren’t for E, you could’ve been in the same position as Honey. What made you worth saving and not her? A ball of fury, like yourself, should’ve been the first to go.

Yet, a level of gratefulness washed over you. Were you ready to thank the freckled stranger for her saviorship?

E followed you back to the house, binding the front door with furniture. Entering, you noticed two rabbits attached to a string laying on the tiled counter. Impressed, you hummed, while dragging your feet toward the couch you had slept on. You shrugged off your backpack and leaned your shotgun against the wall.

The auburn-haired woman peered at you, messing with rabbits, pulling them off the string to prepare to cook them. “What the fuck is wrong with you?” She breathed. Her voice coming out like a muttered sigh, but it was loudly quiet in the house. Therefore, your ears picked up on her words.

You ignored her, pulling out the note, and kicking your feet up onto the couch to read it again. Analyzing the messy handwriting on the page, tainted with dried tears and dirty hand prints. E had brought in a metal trashcan to cook the animals she hunted for the both of you. Every so often, peaking at you with interest and wonder.

When the rabbits were cooked, she brought it over to you in a chipped ceramic bowl. “Thanks…” You mutter, barely meeting her eyes.

“Yeah,” She answered, slightly taken off guard.

The two of you eat separately, on different sides of the room. E didn’t retreat back into the room had the night before. Instead, she propped herself on the stool by the island table. Where she could keep her intense olive eyes on you—attempting to read you without asking questions.

You were impressed by the rabbit presented to you. Back at the base, you were familiar with chicken more so than rabbit, though. There was a hesitation when taking the first bite. But the rumble in your belly was satisfied by the animal, and that was all that mattered.

Feeling a strong gaze on you, peering to the side was a natural reaction. She’d snap her eyes back to her plate before you could fully catch her. Sighing, you set the plate on the coffee table in front of the couch.

In your looting, a bottle of wine called out to you from the basement of one of the Tuscan homes. You limped toward the kitchen with your calloused hand wrapped around the sloped neck of the bottle. Placing the bottle at the middle of the island, you take a seat at the furthest end from her. “I thought I would properly thank you for saving my ass…” You cleared your throat, awkwardly. Choosing to keep your eyes trained on your fidgeting fingers. “It’s Cabernet, I think. The label’s kind of rubbed off.”

“I’m not much of a drinker.”

You pursed your lips, flickering your eyes to peer at her. “Hm.” You hum. “Okay, well, more for me, I guess.” You shrug, reaching for the wine. The plan was to drink it either way—if she wanted it, or if she didn’t. Peeling off the wrapper, you were happy to see that it was a screw top instead of an imbedded cork.

Taking the first sip, its sweetness spread over your tongue. The alcohol percentage was fairly high, so you were expecting a pleasurable feeling within the next few minutes. If you kept gulping at the bottle. You deserved a bit of man-made solace after what you’ve been through. After the things you’ve seen. Taking another sip, you prepare to go back to the couch you were sat on, with the bottle in your hand.

However, E places a hand on the cool tiles. “Wait…” She rolled her eyes. “One sip wouldn’t hurt.” In her silence, she realized that she also deserved a few moments of calmness—self-care.

The corners of your lips curled, sitting back down on your stool. You slid the bottle close enough for her to reach it, leaning your head against your fist.

Orange rays of the sun shifted through the room; setting so the moon could take her place. You and E had found comfort in the wine and in the space between yourselves. Scooting close to each other until there was only a single stool in the center of you. Talking about the more joyous parts of your lives—which, surprisingly, wasn’t much. The pair of you managed to keep the important information off the record. Upholding a level of vagueness between your truth.

When E had brought up her son and girlfriend, that’s when the energy shifted in the room.

“You have a family? Then… Why are you out here?”

A beat slivered between you, circling your bodies like a ribbon.

“I recognize those dog tags… You’re a firefly? I thought they shut down years ago.” She spoke with rigid shoulders, taking a swig of the Cabernet.

Your hand reached for the thin metal around your neck, decorating your exposed collarbones. There was a disconnect between you and the facility you had grown up in. While you loved the support of the community, as you got older, you wanted something different. “Yeah, after everything shut down, another popped up here—in California. It’s the only one left, I believe.”

She chuckled, cheeks flushed from the alcohol accumulating in her system. “Hm. Are you gonna try and recruit me into your little cult? Is that why you’re still out here?”

Deepening your eyebrows, you peered down at the grout between the tiles under your hands. “Probably… If I still was a firefly…” Slowly, you enunciated. “I haven’t been one for months now.”

“Ah, you went rogue.”

“I wouldn’t say that… But, yeah, I guess.” You rolled your eyes, reaching for the wine bottle. She put it in your hand, leaning her elbow against the counter. E left room for you speak, just boring her hazed eyes into your frame. “I was done with being an asshole for a living— I don’t want to just survive anymore… I want to live.” You take a large swig of the wine, lamenting subtly.

Look where desiring life got you. Locked up as a slave for another bunch of assholes. “I heard from some people that there was a place in Wyoming that wasn’t anything like the fireflies.” You inhaled, sharply. “I could live a normal life there— maybe it’s a stupid idea… I don’t know.”

E deepened her thick eyebrows, leaning forward. “Are you talking about Jackson?”

“Yeah, I think so. There was a map in my bag that had the name. I lost it when the rattlers got ahold of me.”

With scrunched face, she stood to her feet. Running her hands over her face, releasing a tired sigh. “It’s not that stupid of an idea…” Looking back at you, she placed her hands on her hips. “That’s where I’m headed— Jackson, Wyoming.”

“Oh…”

Was this the fated reasoning behind why the both of you met? Both harboring an inner pain and guilt for something or someone. Two damaged souls meeting in the middle—this could be a productive exchange. But what would E receive?

She swore under her breath, running her fingers through her hair, stressfully. “You could come with me, it’s not like you’d get far in your condition alone.” She blinked, casually. You scoff at her words, sucking your teeth. She could never just be kind. Sure, it was obvious that you were injured—in horrible shape—but you weren’t inherently weak. You were a trained individual, something that most people couldn’t say.

“I’d feel like an asshole if I didn’t at least offer. It’s a long journey—“

“Oh, you still come off like an asshole, but I appreciate the offer.” You nod, jumping from the stool. “Those fucks threw me off track— I wouldn’t even know where to start up again… So, yeah, I’ll go with you.”

She nodded, pursing her lips. “Don’t make me regret this.”

“You don’t make me regret this. I have a bad history when it comes to trusting strangers.” You pressed your lips into a line, leaning against the island for support. There was a slight sway to stance, as the world around you didn’t feel stable.

“Okay, well, you have my word.” She affirmed, sliding her hands into her back pockets. “Do I have yours?”

You inhaled, sharply, glancing at the ceiling. “Yes, you have my word… On the condition that you tell me your name.” She narrowed her eyes at you, the corners of her lips curling. “We can’t possibly travel together if we don’t know each other’s names.”

The auburn-haired woman picked up the backpack she threw against the lower cabinets, slinging it over her shoulder. She was preparing to huddle into that bedroom again. Before leaving you in the dim hue of the few lanterns in the room, she spoke. “Ellie. My name’s Ellie.”

She waited by her door for your answer, with a raised eyebrow. You gave her your name, plainly. Straightening the hunch in your back—feigning a level of stoicism.

The only response she gave was a hum, before locking herself away. Releasing a sigh of relief, you smiled. Wyoming wasn’t the pipe dream you thought it to be. Yeah, the experiences you had leading up to that conversation weren’t the best. In fact, those experiences scarred everything about you. But could this have been the reason behind your hellish encounters?

#🪅#millersfinest #ellie tlou #ellie williams #ellie williams imagine #ellie williams x reader #lesbian #mini series #ellie the last of us

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thieves-never-say-die · 11 days ago

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Weekend in Paris Watch-Along

A summary of everything talked about in the Weekend in Paris watch-along, video here, with Dean Devlin, John Rogers, Aldis Hodge, Christian Kane, and interviewer Brittany Catallo.

Under the cut because it is long.

First question: how do you feel the latest season of Leverage: Redemption is relevant to audiences?

John: [sarcastic outrage] How is a show about evil oligarchs relevant!? I can’t-!

Everyone laughed, and Dean said Leverage was always a show that predicts the future, like The Simpsons, and he specifically mentioned The Mile High Job when Hardison hacks the plane remotely, and The Jailhouse Job which was about the prison industrial complex. At the time of writing those episodes, neither of those things had been done/talked about yet, but soon after the episodes aired both of those things became major news stories.

Dean said the difference this season was that Leverage was actually meeting the current moment, but in the show the good guys win.

John interjected that the good guys can still win! The only time anything is guaranteed is if you give up and accept it will just happen, otherwise the future is always unwritten.

Aldis: So basically Leverage is laying out the blueprint? We just need someone out there to follow it?

John: No! Do not send John Rogers to a foreign prison because you were inspired by something on Leverage!

Q: What can viewers expect this season coming off of last season?

Dean talked about how this season they got to see a whole new side of some of the characters, and get to explore some interesting arcs. He noted that we will be going deep into Parker’s character this season.

John said it’s an advantage of having a show that’s gone on this long, we’ve gone on a journey with them, and the actors give some really nice character work.

John then explained that they chose Paris because they were shooting most of their exterior shots in Belgrade, which is where The Librarians: The Next Chapter is shot.

The intro shot of the team moving throughout the hallway was all one shot that didn't cut, and the cast managed to get it in two takes because they practiced a lot. Everyone had a great time filming it, even if it was stressful knowing one small mess-up would make everybody start over.

When they wrote the scene they didn't have the set yet, and after John turned in the script to director Marc Roskin, Marc called John and said "this is impossible", to which John responded "yes! And that’s what makes it cool!”

It was a lot of exposition dump, but John knows Aldis is the best at it and could do it, which allowed them to use Hardison as the anchor character for that scene.

They talked about how everyone had to race around the set, specifically mentioning Beth scrambling to the top to hang through the vent.

The set itself wasn't as big as it looks, it was a big T that they digitally extended and shot well.

John: The room was like “so it’s Scooby Doo” and I was very hurt, I was like “No, it’s a challenging heist sequence built around an impossible bit of geometry!” And the writer’s room was like “No, it's the Scooby Doo door bit, we all know what you’re doing.”

John pointed out how these characters are now all peers, in comparison to the original show, which means Hardison can give Sophie crap about her relationships in a loving way.

He also pointed out how everyone else is distracted by personal stuff, but Eliot is the only one who stays on mission.

The shot of the team running out of the auction house and into the van was a reference to The Long Goodbye Job.

John: You know, I don’t think many fans will catch it, but we’re basically giving them a horrible flashback to the most traumatic moment of their life.

Aldis: You got the wrong audience for that on this show, because they watch everything.

Dean loved that they went from this long, beautiful one-er to the best action scene they've ever shot.

They were able to film the whole car chase downtown in the center of Belgrade.

The idea of the episode opening in the middle of a busted con was something John wanted to do since the original run of the show but never got to do.

Christian came up with the bit of Eliot recognizing and lamenting the waste of expensive flour.

Christian and John talked for a bit about shooting the fight scenes, and Christian said fight scenes are like a dance, it's less about the violence as it is about working with your scene partners.

John learned from Jackie Chan to shoot fights along a fight line, which helps avoid having the fights all be close up shots of punches. He also makes sure to write Eliot fight scenes with fluidity in mind, because Eliot fights to control the space, not to win.

Aldis shot his line in the van ("how was your first day at school?") in New Orleans six months after Christian shot his reaction outside the van in Belgrade.

When coming up with the bad guys for the episode, one of the Amazon execs said "you may have made them too evil," to which John replied "there's no such thing."

Q: What is the significance of Eliot getting seriously injured in this? What was the motivation behind that?

John wanted to make sure there was adequate build to Hardison's speech later, and talked about how Eliot can take a beating and keep working, and has taken a beating for ten years, but sometimes it's taken for granted. Eliot can handle business while injured, but it's a reminder that he's not bulletproof, and it gives the audience a visual and physical reminder of it for the end of the episode.

Hardison and Parker's waiter uniforms reminded Dean of the Season 1 finale of getting the Davids.

Aldis mentioned he gets nostalgia when thinking about where they started, how far they've all come since then, they had a good time and he misses that time.

John said that the bad guy of the week (Arizona Mike) was an example of the banality of evil. He's a generally likeable, smiley guy who has no idea he's a monster.

Sophie's alias Violet Cesario is a character from 12th Night, which is a clue that Sophie made the alias because she takes names from Shakespeare.

They needed the team to make fun of Harry's beard to explain why it was shaved by the end of the episode. John enjoyed writing Sophie giving him crap for it without even seeing it.

Q: Where did the evil water stealing hot sauce salesman come from?

John said that people always focus on Big Crime when writing, but there's a million mid-level evil dudes out there. The bad guy was based on a certain type of farming in California (which John won't name so he doesn't get sued), but no one ever goes directly into water, they get into it through other means. People have an idea in their head of secret office buildings in Vienna and backroom deals, but there's a lot of mid-level millionaires making people miserable for their own money.

Q: How much of yourself is in these characters, and how much have the characters influenced you?

Aldis said that he's part of Hardison more than Hardison is part of him. Since they've been filming Leverage for so long it allowed them to influence their characters more, especially when Redemption started they got to help plan the maturation of their characters and where they would be ten years later. His performance of his characters is made more natural when he puts some of himself in it, and being able to help build the characters helps with that as well.

Dean pointed out that Aldis filmed several TV shows and movies at the same time as Redemption, and mentioned how he would fly out on his days off just to be in a few scenes. Aldis' other commitments were much darker and more tense. Dean asked Aldis what it was like to come and be this happy character for a week?

Aldis: It was like a vacation.

Aldis continued and said that he enjoys his other work, but being able to come back and work on Leverage is a gift. Leverage is just fun, and gives him nostalgia for where they started, and it gives a strange sense of "we're really doing this?" Because he rarely gets to play a character with so much history, and it's a very different experience at this point in his career, but it's a joy to do.

In response to the earlier question, Christian said that a lot of himself has bled into Eliot, and a lot of Eliot has bled into him. Christian helped create Eliot, and Eliot lives inside Christian's body in a way no other character does. Christian didn't know it when he started, but Eliot is the character he came to Hollywood to play. He wanted a role that had action and heart, and said that the bad guy is usually more fun to play, which makes Eliot great because he is both the good and the bad guy. He doesn't feel like he goes to work, it feels like he's showing up to have fun.

John talked about how on a lot of shows, actors just show up to read the lines given to them and that's it, but on Leverage it's more like a jazz band, and the actors know how to play an instrument that the writers don't know. They give the actors the score but encourage them to make it their own. Over the years the writers have learned how to write to the actor's rhythms as well, and all of that helps sell the characters. This has also kept the characters from getting stagnant after 15 years because they're not just characters that live in the writer's heads, they come from the actors as well which lets them grow and breathe.

Christian can’t imagine what it was like to read the Leverage pilot for the first time, because when he thinks about it now he pictures the actors as their characters. They've worked together so long that at this point he knows how Aldis will improv a line.

The line "the law just sucks, now get in the hole" might be one of the darkest lines on the show, according to John.

Q: What was it like to work in New Orleans? How does that setting affect how the show is now?

Dean said they went to New Orleans because he'd had a great experience filming one of the Librarian movies there, and it made sense for them. The only original art form ever made in the US is jazz music, and it came from New Orleans. It was important to put the show in a place that is culturally so important to America, but is also such a huge place for art and corruption and bad guys and people who fight for good guys.

John knew Aldis and Beth would be able to sell the Eyes Wide Shut bit, and could make it creepy and weird, so he just wrote the bare bones script and let them have fun with it. Beth specifically did it as "this is Parker's idea of sexy", and he loved that because he never could've come up with it.

Dean asked Aldis what it was like to film the conversation between Parker and Hardison about wanting to do something different.

Aldis said it was a really important scene, because they've had so many years together and understand each other so well, they're very aware of the weight of what they'll miss together. It juxtaposes well with the previous scene where they worked together really well. They know they make each other better, but what does it mean for Hardison if his heart isn't in it anymore?

John mentioned that the technique of backtracking money laundering accounts is real.

John then talked about how they wanted to write Parker and Hardison, because they didn't want to do the typical shocked significant other plot line. When you love characters and love people you don't want anything to change, but life is change and the world changes all the time. Change is natural and it isn't bad, but it's okay to recognize that some people need to get off the train at different stops, but you still love them and are still with them. It was the same conversation they were having with the fans through the show. You don't have to abandon each other or stop loving each other just because people are doing different things.

Dean interjected to mention how much he likes how Christian played Eliot not wanting to be in this house, with these people, doing this con, all while injured.

John's favorite version of Eliot is when he's annoyed. They missed it earlier but the exchange between Sophie and Eliot ("Oh, sorry, I was focused on the terrorists!") was one of his favorites.

John: Eliot tough and scary is fine, but my favorite thing is when Eliot is annoyed with everybody.

Aldis: Everybody tunes in to watch him get annoyed.

Christian added that he loves acting annoyed, and Aldis is his favorite scene partner for that.

For Harry's scene at the fence with the tanker, everything past the fence was CGI, it was really just an abandoned golf course behind the building.

Q: How do you see comedy and its role in Leverage?

John said a big part of it was because he and Chris Downey started in sitcoms, and they didn't know any rules about "don't mix comedy with drama", so they decided why not have the corny flashbacks and the cool drama. Back when the show started it was hard to get the execs on board, they didn't really understand the tone, but they got it eventually. All the actors can hit jokes, and if you have actors that can hit jokes, give your actors jokes!

Dean said when they filmed the pilot he didn't know how funny Christian could be until the IT guy, and didn't know how good at improv Aldis was until they filmed.

John loved Harry's side-con here. It's not important, it's just a B-plot, he's having fun, we don't have time or that, it’s whatever you want it to be!

Christian's favorite scenario on set was when Eliot and Hardison were dressed up as cops (The Morning After Job), everything in the car and with the call they responded to was so much fun.

John said that episode was a Chris Downey episode, he wanted the comedy of them working together and told John to make the plot work.

John gave credit to Gina, how she masterminded the hell out of the episode, we get to see how terrifying Sophie can be.

The fight with Eliot, Hardison, and the giant security guard was John's vision. He wanted the Cap/Bucky/Iron Man fight from Civil War, and finally got to write that sequence. Two guys fighting in sync, as a pair, who have known each other for 15 years, and know their rhythms.

Christian said it's hard to coordinate a fight like that, but he and Aldis have worked together so long that they figured it out.

Dean loved that Hardison really went all in on the Vulcan neck pinch thing.

John: Hardison believes the Vulcan neck thing is gonna work, and Parker believes it's gonna work, and that’s what love is.

The interviewer asked a question about how Christian does his stunts, and he confirmed he does all his own fights, and as many stunts as John and Dean allow him to.

Brittany: Legally?

John: No! No, no, past that!

Dean hates that Christian does his own stunt. He'll tell Christian not to do something, and then get dailies of Christian doing that thing.

John: And then I get footage of Aldis and Beth running on top of trains! (The Big Bang Job)

Christian told a story of when they worked on The Office Job and were filming the scene on the roof. They had crash pads down, and after they were done filming Christian just jumped onto it without telling anybody. A few seconds later, Aldis followed.

John facepalmed at that story.

Q: Did you work with a lot of the same crew for this season as past Leverage Redemption season?

Dean said they have a lot of the same crew and appreciate it because it’s a great crew.

John said the key to making a good show is hiring smart people who are good at their job, and then getting the hell out of their way. Dean very rarely harshes anyone's insane idea and lets everyone work collaboratively.

John also noted that Breanna and Becky (Harry's daughter) are now best friends. If they had more episodes the two would've had a whole adventure together.

It was also fun to write Hardison giving Breanna the big brother talk, while Parker's in the background like "tell her about the bomb!" and Hardison shushes her because he knows if Nana finds out he told Breanna about a bomb he'd be in trouble.

They shot the end of episode 1, the end of episode 3, and the last scene of the season finale all within a day and a half of each other because they wanted Aldis to be there.

Dean said he loves the pretzels bit, and John talked about how it started as a one-off thing that was just there, but then it became a thing in the show and in the fandom and now it's a whole callback and shorthand for their relationship.

John talked about the ending scene, and how he didn't want Hardison to just bail, he needed to have an honest conversation with Parker.

It was Gina's idea for Sophie to be dating again, and it comes up several times throughout the season.

John liked the way Christian and Aldis played their conversation, of two guys who care about each other and aren't very good at emotions but still have to talk about emotional things.

John repeated that Eliot isn't looking for redemption, he knows he's damned and he's accepted it. It's hard for Eliot to accept or process that other people see him differently.

Christian chimed in that Eliot's redemption is getting other people to a place where they can be redeemed. They can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and even if he's stuck in the tunnel forever as long as everyone else gets out then he doesn't need to.

Q: Is that something we’re going to see more of this season? Exploring everyone finding their own version of redemption?

Christian said his role is more in the background, he's talking people off the ledge, he's giving Hardison advice, he's talking to Sophie, making sure Harry doesn't screw up. Eliot is especially protective of Harry because he's not as far along as the others, and is really trying to give him a leg up out of the darkness.

Dean talked about how it was very important to them that they never betrayed the truth of Parker and Hardison's relationship.

John mentioned that the actors found that relationship. He hates writing backstory and tends to slow-play relationships, because once you get into a relationship it becomes a soap opera and you start screwing with the relationship in order to get stories, so that's why they waited until season 5 of the first run to get Parker and Hardison together. They don't want to mess with their relationship now to get stories, and it was interesting to write about a mature relationship because everyone knows they're not going to break up. He knows you can't screw with such a central relationship for cheap drama.

John: They're in this complicated, emotional relationship, with them and Eliot—however you want to define it—and they are going to die together.

That was the end of the episode! Dean reminded everyone that a new episode will drop every Thursday for the next 7 weeks, and thanked the fandom for supporting it, as the fans are the only reason they got to come back.

Q: Any hint for what we can expect this season?

Christian said there are some great character arcs coming up. He especially loved the second episode.

Dean pointed out how they've made over 100 episodes of Leverage now, and the thing that most surprised him this season is that they're still doing things they've never done before, he's shocked they can still find new places to go, and says that some episodes this season are completely wild.

John said all the writers loved being back with these characters, and we're going to see some unexpected but not unbelievable turns from the characters as they expose their vulnerable side. We'll explore a bit more for the newer characters, and Breanna especially is going to be great.

#leverage redemption #the weekend in paris job #leverage commentary #john rogers #dean devlin #christian kane #aldis hodge #leverage #redemption spoilers #leverage redemption spoilers #rs3

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koqabear · 2 years ago

Text

(Un)Professional

♫: te pongo mal, Kali Uchis

“When Soobin struck up the proposition to be friends with benefits, he did it under the guise of remaining single and focusing on his music, adamant on keeping things “professional”— god forbid anyone else tries to get with you though, because maybe he didn’t really mean it when he told you no strings attached.”

Soobin x fem!reader

Genre: fwb to ???, pwp, kinda angst, smut, rockstar!au

Word count: 4.5K

warnings: soobin is actually kinda mean and toxic but they have their little redemption arc idk TT… barely edited sorry

smut warnings: mean/hard dom! soobin, sub!mc, mc is kinda bratty, so also brat tamer soobin hehe, rough sex, unprotected sex, pet names, (pretty, baby, etc.) possessiveness, jealousy, degrading, thigh riding, dry humping, breast play, edging, marking, biting, oral (f. rec.), fingering, dacryphilia, hair pulling, dumbification, creampie (lmk if i should add anything!)

Notes: this is a mini series that was made simply because i am an indecisive loser. don’t ask why i was listening to reggaeton for a rockstar au, it just happened 😭 also i wrote all these parts after midnight bc that’s the only time i was able to write i guess— in other words… don’t expect too much from this.

Soobin doesn’t do relationships.

There’s no room for something as fragile as that in his life, at least not when he’s traveling to a new state every day for his tours— the last thing Soobin would ever do is fuck up what he already has just for something as fickle as love.

However, he is a man with needs— needs that are gladly fulfilled by you, his pretty best friend that always travels with them.

He’s known you long enough to have struck up this arrangement confidently; knowing there would be no strings attached, not able to form any feelings for someone he’s been content being just friends with for— well, forever.

So this— his pounding heart, his brows that furrow together with frustration, his hands that grip his microphone a little tighter— is definitely new.

There is no logical reason as to why he should be feeling like this; there’s no logical explanation as to why it’s been such an eyesore to watch Yeonjun interact with you the whole night, watching the way the man not so subtly sends winks and coy smiles in your direction, Soobin’s lips being bitten at as he watches the way you merely smile cutely in response.

You don’t even act this way with him; every time you’ve come to their shows, you’ve always made it a point to act normal whenever Soobin comes around— just enough excitement to make you seem like a fan, but not enough to make it seem like you know him— you’ve learned this the hard way.

“Tone it down a bit next time, yeah?” Soobin told you once, as you laid in his hotel bed and surfed through the tv channels with droopy eyes, “If we’re gonna keep doing this, we should be professional about it.”

His words garnered a massive roll of your eyes— what the fuck did he even mean by that? It’s a concert, of course you had to seem excited— but it seems as though you took his comment to heart, watching the way your excitement dies down the moment Soobin approaches your side.

No one’s watching you— no one cares about what faces you make or what you say when Soobin stands before you, but the thought of him telling you to keep it professional pisses you off so much that you decide to show him just how good of an actress you are; the difference of reactions is almost incredible, and you take in the way Soobin’s eyes narrow at the sight of you.

There’s no reason he should get mad— after all, there’s nothing between you.

Agreeing to this was a stupid idea. What kind of a self-destructive freak agrees to be friends with benefits with someone they had feelings for? A self-destructive freak like you apparently, because as you watch Soobin leave with one last glance at you, you can’t help but wish that he was just a bit mad.

The two of you distract yourselves in your own ways; Soobin tries not to visit your section for the rest of the night, and you try to get the attention of the rest of the members in response— and the boys, surprised to see your excited attitude when they come around, are more than happy to oblige— and if the fans noticed that Soobin seemed to be in a bad mood for part of the show, well, that’s on him.

You feel a bit more tired than usual by the time the concert ends— you’re not sure why, but you find yourself trudging backstage because of that; maybe you should just go to the hotel instead of congratulating the boys for their show like you usually do.

“Oh, hey ___!” Yeonjun spots you before you can turn on your heels and exit; you’re immediately putting on a bright smile as the said man throws an arm around you, still in his encore outfit as he drags you along the halls and undoubtedly to where the rest of the members are, “What’d you think of the concert? It was good huh?”

“As always,” you smile, nudging Yeonjun softly as he clearly waits for you to continue, “You were great out there, your energy was insane.”

“Why thank you,” he purrs, leaning in and watching as you scoff at him playfully, “Watching you enjoy yourself practically gave me all the energy I needed.”

You don’t find yourself surprised by his comment; Yeonjun is always like this, his flirty and suggestive behavior nothing out of the ordinary as you simply scold him to get out of your face— you’re so caught up in bickering with the man that you don’t notice the heated stare of another, brows twitching at the way you laugh and play along with Yeonjun.

After a moment though, you feel it— your head is turning before you can really process it, and you’re meeting eyes with Soobin, who looks… well, pissed off.

Before you can get a good look at his face, he’s standing abruptly; taking long strides to where you are, your heart beginning to pound at the sight of him slowing to a stop next to you.

“Meet me outside.” His voice is gruff and on edge as he whispers the words lowly to you, walking off without another word as you simply turn to watch— because of course he wouldn’t try to get Yeonjun off you or outwardly ask for your attention, choosing instead to relay you a quiet message before he’s off, regardless of the way everyone sends him a confused look as they watch him leave.

“He looks mad,” Yeonjun hums, watching as you shrug his arm off gently, “Gonna try to talk to him?”

You sigh, hoping he doesn’t see the way your hands grab at the hem of your shirt anxiously.

“Yeah,” you say, then you’re off, barely able to turn the corner once you’ve exited before you’re harshly pulled by none other than Soobin.

“Ow— what the fuck—!” Soobin’s hold on your wrist is bruising as he pushes you into the room next door, a changing room that’s not meant to hold multiple people as he simply locks the door behind him and pushes you against the wall; he doesn’t bother to turn on the lights as he approaches you— the light that comes through the frosted window on the door becomes the only thing that allows you to see Soobin’s frustrated expression.

“Had fun flirting with the others?” He asks, his lips so close that you’re able to feel the puff of his breath as he huffs in frustration— the room is so small as you press yourself against the wall, feeling as though Soobin is filling your senses and making you dizzy, “Was that your little way to try and get my attention? Because it fucking worked, you poor little thing.”

“The fuck are you talking about?” you hiss, pressing a hand against Soobin’s chest as you feel him try to swoop in to kiss you, his hands already sliding under the hem of your shirt to trace shapes along your skin, “I’m friends with the others too, you know.”

“Have you always been this friendly with them? Hmm?” he asks, slotting a knee between your legs as you’re left to look up at him speechlessly, “What, gonna try to fuck them next?”

“Dude, what’s your fucking problem!” you hiss, punctuating your words with a punch to his chest as you glare at him, not lost upon the fact that his thigh is pressed firmly against your cunt, your skirt fanning along his leg and hiding the way he’s flexing and pushing it against you.

“And if I wanted to, then what?” you ask, pretending as though you haven’t given in to the way Soobin’s hands are guiding your hips, making you grind against him as he feels the way you become wet by his actions, “What’ll you do, get jealous? Try to stop me? That wouldn’t be very professional of you— I might as well ask Yeonjun if he’s free after this.”

“Don’t get fucking smart with me,” He says, a hand coming up to grab your cheeks and tilt your head toward him, “I’m not letting any other bitch get with you, touching what’s mine.”

It’s just his arrogance and possessiveness talking again— at least that’s what you tell yourself, failing to hold back your weak whimper as you roll your hips against him, feeling him press against your hip and rut his hard cock against you slowly.

“I’m not fucking yours,” you grit out, your words muffled as you try to speak through the hold that Soobin still has on you, “The only reason why we’re still friends is so you can get a good fuck, don’t lie—”

Soobin is kissing you before you can finish your sentence— if he wasn’t angry before, he definitely was now, his teeth clashing against yours as he kisses you roughly and without control, a mess of spit as he bites down on your lip, drinking in your pained moan before he’s slipping his tongue in to get a taste.

He’s noticed the way your hips have begun to move erratically; your hands are gripping tightly at his shirt, probably stretching it out as you continue to moan into his mouth, a hand guiding your movements as he flexes and presses his thigh firmer against you, his free hand letting go of your face to slip under your shirt and get access to your breasts as he begins to roll and pinch your nipples between his fingers.

“Do you like it when I treat you like this?” he asks breathlessly, finally pulling away to watch the way a string of saliva continues to connect you— the sight is filthy and has your brows furrowing as you bite your swollen lips in hopes to muffle your sounds, “Like you’re nothing more than a fucktoy for me to use after my shows? A good little thing to take my stress out on?”

The pleasure is beginning to build up— there’s a tight knot in your stomach, making your brain go foggy as you feel the way your clit rubs against Soobin’s thigh every time you angle your hips a certain way, feeling as you soak your panties and his sweats the longer you rut against him.

Soobin simply watches you with a small smile; his eyes are lidded as he leans back, eyes glued to the way you roll your hips against him, weak whines becoming louder and more frantic as you begin to pull at his shirt with wide, teary eyes.

But before you can finally cum, he pulls away. You’re whining softly at the loss, hitting his chest petulantly as you curse at him under your breath— before you can land another hit, he grabs your wrists, freezing you entirely as he sends you a sly look, leaning in so he can whisper in your ear.

“You’ll let me fuck you, right? You can always go to someone else if you need to cum,” he says, waiting for your response as he begins to kiss and suck at the spot just under your ear, knowing how sensitive you are as he feels the way you attempt to curl into yourself.

“Fuck you,” you whine out, attempting to shake his hold off you, only to fail— he simply laughs softly, sinking his teeth into the marked flesh as he listens to the yelp you let out.

“I’m trying,” he huffs out, finally pulling away as he sends you a childish grin, “Now be good and turn around for me, okay sweet thing?”

The nickname catches you so off guard that you don’t protest the way Soobin turns you around without another word, your cheek pressed against the wall and your hands held behind your back as you continue to curse at him quietly— and judging by the way Soobin simply laughs softly, he’s definitely enjoying himself, shameless as ever as you listen to the sounds of shifting behind you.

You hope he doesn’t notice the way your breath hitches as you feel him push your panties aside, his tip brushing against your entrance— swiping at your leaking slit to gather your wetness, clearly teasing you as he takes in the way you try to push back against him, letting out a soft please as you feel his tip sink into you slightly, feeling the way you stretch around him before he’s pulling back out.

“Please? Why are you begging for me, baby?” he asks, slowly beginning to push in as he watches you rest your forehead against the wall, letting out a shaky sigh at the stretch, “I’m not here for you— you can go to another one of your toys if you’re looking for someone to worship you.”

You can’t bring yourself to say anything as you feel him bottom out inside you— no matter how many times you find yourself in this situation, you can never get used to it, the size of him enough to have your eyes rolling back as you feel his tip prod at your cervix, hips flush against your ass as he begins to grind softly into you.

It’s not enough— not for you, and certainly not for him, though he refuses to give you the pleasure of fucking you stupid so soon as he watches instead the way you begin to squirm, wanting more as you hang your head and try to fuck yourself against him— all attempts are quickly stopped as Soobin uses a hand to still your movement, firm on your waist and forcing you back against the wall as the other continues to bind your hands, pressing your fists against the small of your back and watching with a sly smile as you begin to arch in response.

“Why are you so quiet?” he asks softly, leaning in to trail kisses along your neck, continuing his slow and agonizing pace, “Usually you’re so loud I have to keep a hand on your mouth.”

You refuse to give into him— refuse to let him hear what he wants, ignoring the ache between your legs and the fire in your stomach that just begs to be put out— but the way you’re leaking around Soobin’s length and clenching around him is giving you away, and it’s enough to have you turning away from him in hopes that he won’t be able to read your expression.

This proves to be harder than you expected; Soobin’s hand has let go of your waist in favor to play with your clit, nimble fingers circling and pinching the bud as he begins to thrust shallowly, listening to the way you try to swallow your sounds and keep your eyes shut at the feeling— it isn’t long before he’s building you up again, taking in the way your legs shake and you begin to push back against him subconsciously, giving away just how needy you are as your fists tighten.

You’re close, so fucking close, maybe if you stay quiet Soobin won’t notice— but, for a man who insists you two aren’t anything, he’s eerily aware of the way your body gets when you’re about to cum— meaning, all his movement immediately stops the moment you’re about to tumble over the edge, bottoming out inside you and laughing mockingly as he listens to the broken sound you let out.

“Fuck, I’m so tired from today’s show,” Soobin groans, resting his forehead on your shoulder, beginning his slow, shallow thrusts again after a moment, “You don’t mind if I take it slow tonight, do you?”

You say nothing— you have yet to say anything that would irritate or please Soobin, and that in itself is enough to egg him on— because even if you refuse to talk, the way your body trembles from his touch and you bite your lips to suppress sounds is enough to tell him all he needs to know.

The way you clench around Soobin when he begins to play with your clit almost has him cumming— he has to concentrate on not doing so as he takes in the weak whine you let out, your previous orgasms being built up once more as you let out a shaky sigh, listening to the wet sounds that come from the way Soobin fucks you.

You’re trying so hard to remain neutral as he winds you up— but god, he knows you like the back of his hand, his hips rutting and rolling into you as he does everything to make you go insane, already feeling your high creep up on your from how up-tight your body is.

“Feels good?” He asks, using your hands as leverage as he pulls you back into him for a particularly harsh thrust— the suddenness of it has you moaning loudly, your lips immediately pressing together as you feel your face grow hot— Soobin’s cocky laugh is both annoying and hot and you hate yourself for feeling that way.

“Don’t worry, you don’t have to say anything,” he grins, picking up his pace as he watches the way you begin to break, weak moans and whines leaving you from how harshly he thrusts his cock into you, “I’ll do all the work, just stand there and look pretty, okay?”

You can feel your high approaching— it’s intense and fast, and you’re barely able to process the way your mouth falls open as you begin to chase the feeling, ready to fall over the edge and cream all over Soobin’s cock when—-

Like an absolute jerk, he pulls out.

“You know what?” he says, talking more to himself than anything as he turns you back around and tucks himself back in, your back colliding with the wall behind you as your breath hitches, watching as he falls to his knees and sends you an innocent look, “I haven’t tasted you in so long, baby— fuck, I can’t help myself, I’ll be quick.”

Soobin is never like this— you’ve only ever experienced quickies backstage, so to say that you’re surprised to see the man dragging things out here is an understatement, letting out a shaky sigh as he throws your leg over his shoulder and scoots closer to you, burying himself under your skirt without hesitation.

You’re practically dripping on the floor— it’s even worse when his fingers begin to prod at your entrance, feeling the way your walls clench wildly at the feeling and your hips thrust toward the sensation; Soobin’s tongue licks at your clit teasingly, taking his time to trace circles around it as he finally sinks his fingers inside you, curling them and pressing against all your sensitive spots as he takes in the way you squirm above him.

Soobin’s face is practically suffocated by your cunt— you’re not sure how long he does this for, but he proceeds to bring you close to orgasm only to pull away a few more times, listening to the way you begin to cry and plead a bit more with each one.

At some point— your fifth ruined orgasm, you think you’ve lost count— you find yourself pulling at his hair and begging, the words stuttered out through hiccups as you feel hot tears stream down your cheeks, pleading Soobin to let you cum as you grind your pussy along his face, feeling his tongue dip to your entrance before he’s back to teasing your clit, laughing softly at the sound before he finally emerges from under your skirt— his face is shiny and flushed as he looks up at you, sending you a grin that only has you pouting even more.

“What’s wrong?” he asks, feigning concern as he begins to run his hands along your thighs, waiting patiently for you to respond as he begins trailing kisses up your legs, hearing your soft sniffles as he reaches your inner thighs, “Aren’t you enjoying yourself?”

“Soobin,” you whine, shutting your eyes as you feel his swollen lips leave opened-mouthed kisses on your inner thighs, already soaked with your arousal as he licks it up, only to begin biting and sucking at the area leisurely, “Soobin please—please let me cum, wanna cum so bad, please.”

The sound of your begging is welcomed to his ears— he looks up at you through his lashes, sparkling eyes a stark contrast to the filthy way he continues to mark your thighs, ignoring your soft whines that others will see them, please binnie…

“Others will see them?” he repeats, clenching his jaw at the way you nod frantically, a clear concern in your eyes— slowly, he stands, hooking your leg over his waist as he presses himself against you, hissing softly at the way you immediately soak through his sweats, “So what? Let them see. That way they know what happens when we’re alone.”

“But… we shouldn’t— you said we need to keep this hidden…” His words are nothing but confusing— you’re sure it reads on your face, because Soobin is aligning his cock with your entrance once more, chuckling softly at your expression before he shakes his head in exasperation.

“Did I? Well, I don’t wanna hide it anymore,” he says, eyes lidded and filled with need as he sinks himself slowly into you; your eyes are threatening to flutter shut at the sensation, only to be stopped at the feeling of Soobin cupping your chin, telling you softly look at me. before he finally bottoms out.

“Want everyone to know you’re mine,” he says, and you’re more than ready to respond with another mean comment before he continues, “And that I’m all yours. Don’t want anyone else to touch you.”

“W…what—?” your words are being cut short by the feeling of him fucking into you again, a hand coming up to grab his shoulder and your leg pulling him in closer in fear of having your orgasm ruined again— Soobin simply huffs, his hands going to hold onto your hips to fuck into you better, indulging in your fucked out face and dazed eyes as he smiles softly; slowly, he’s leaning in, lips brushing against yours as he speaks.

“‘m so fucking stupid for starting all this,” he laughs softly, holding back a moan at the way you clench around him, your nails digging into your shoulder slightly, “Told myself I’d never catch any feelings like this— fuck, look at me now…”

“Just wanna keep you for myself— maybe I’m being selfish but… fuck,” you think you’re getting the gist of what he means— your free hand comes up to tangle itself in his hair as you close the gap between the two of you, hoping that you’re not misinterpreting his words as you feel him fuck you faster, setting a rhythm that has your eyes rolling back and your mouth falling open, so wound up from tonight that you think your legs might give out any moment now.

“Soobin,” you whine out, pulling at his hair and shirt as you begin bucking your hips at him, trying to fuck yourself on his cock as you whine, “Please let me cum— please please please, need it so bad, just wanna cum, please?”

The way you’re whining and begging is more than enough to Soobin; he’s gripping your hips and fucking you harder, eyes widening slightly at the way your sounds increase in volume, too fucked dumb to even realize.

“Shit,” Soobin grits out, planting his hand on your mouth and telling you to quiet down, “You were really holding back, huh? There’s my girl, all loud and pretty for me.”

He’s cooing softly at the way tears well up in your eyes and spill promptly after; running over his skin, biting at his lip to suppress sounds of his own as he feels the way you become impossibly tight around him.

“You gonna cum? Pretty doll just wants to cream my cock, finally had enough of me using you, right?” The way you’re nodding mindlessly only spurs Soobin on, insanely turned on by the way you’ve become fucked stupid, “Come on baby, show me how good you feel, been waiting patiently to cum, such a perfect doll.”

He’s cooing softly and talking you through your orgasm— you don’t even realize that your legs have given out, and Soobin’s hands are flying to support you as he holds you up, pressing himself fully against you and grinding his hips into you as your head falls on his shoulder; your sounds are muffled by the fabric of his hoodie as you bury your head further into him, pressed entirely against the wall and left to Soobin’s mercy as you allow him to continue rutting into you slowly.

“Binnie,” you whine out, right next to his ears as you begin to speak quietly to him, “Want you to cum inside, fill me up please? Never wanted any other guys but you, just wanna feel you cum inside, please…”

Your soft pleas set Soobin off immediately— his hips are bucking into you so roughly that your body is jolting with every thrust, his head burying itself in your neck as he lets out a soft groan— you then feel the way he fills you up, warm cum staying inside from the way he continues to fuck you well after he’s calmed down, his shuddering breaths on your skin enough to know that how sensitive he is.

For a moment, you just stay there; pressed against the wall as Soobin slowly pulls his cock out of you, feeling the way his release begins to drip out from how much he filled you— your chest is heaving against his as you attempt to catch your breath, legs still weak as you take advantage of Soobin’s strength to help hold you up.

Soobin’s arms wrap around your waist; he’s pulling you in even closer, your bodies melting together as he nuzzles his head into your neck, inhaling slowly as your own hesitant hands come up to embrace Soobin.

“Sorry I was so horrible to you,” he says, littering kisses on the exposed skin of your neck before he continues, “But I did mean that whole thing about catching feelings— the timing’s horrible, I know— but….”

You hum softly, as though lost in thought, “How long have you felt like this?”

“I… this whole time,” he admits, his face growing hotter at the confession, “I was just in denial half the time we did this whole thing— god, why do you think I suggested it in the first place…?”

You hold back a laugh— Soobin however, is nervous at your lack of reaction, pulling away from his hiding place to analyze your expression.

“I’m sorry. Is this weird? I understand if you don’t feel the same way, I’m really sorry if you felt uncomfortable with anything I did today, I seriously don’t know what I was thinking—“

You’re cutting him off with a kiss— but it’s gentle this time, and you really take a moment to feel his soft lips as you feel him smile against you, his cheeks warm under your touch as you finally pull away.

“Soobin,” you say softly, smiling fondly at the way he lets out a soft hmm? in response, “I feel the same. But yeah, you were a fucking jerk with me.”

“I’m sorry,” he says immediately, cupping your face as he sports the look of a kicked puppy, eyes filled with nothing but guilt, “I’m sorry, I seriously never meant to go that far, I should’ve just asked you out like a normal person instead of being so mean.”

“I don’t know,” you say, pouting softly as his eyes widen softly, seemingly afraid of what you might say; you simply peck at his lips chastely, unable to hold back your laugh at his expression, “I kinda liked it.”

Your words are horribly confusing to Soobin— but hey, at least he knows how you feel.

#txt fanfic #txt fanfiction #txt imagines #txt oneshots #txt ff #txt angst #soobin x reader #soobin x you #soobin x y/n #soobin ff #soobin imagines #soobin oneshot #soobin angst #txt smut #txt hard hours #txt hard thoughts #soobin smut #soobin fanfic

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linkspooky · 2 months ago

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THE GREATEST REDEMPTION ARC OF ALL TIME IS NOT ZUKO'S

Apparently, I like getting hate in my inbox so let's continue criticizing a series that most people consider to be an untouchable masterpiece. Here's my controversial statement for the day. Zuko's redemptoin arc is... fine. It's just fine. (Remember to send all of your anon hate to linkspooky dot tumblr dot come slash ask). It is a servicable character arc where Zuko is clearly in a different place then where he began, but when I think greatest redemption arc of all time I think Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

So now in order to make my point I'm going to compare the two seemingly unrelated franchises which both feature a bad guy who eventually joins the heroes side.

What is a Redemption Arc?

So I'm going to start off by blowing everyone's minds by saying that I hate the words "redemption arc". If only because the term is so overused, and the word 'redemption' itself is subjective and tied up in personal beliefs of what morality is that 'redemption arc' basically has no meaning. It's kind of like how people use the word 'enemies to lovers' to describe stories like Pride and Prejudgice, because like in most romance stories the two main characters start out the story disliking each other.

Redemption arc is now a buzzword, and every time a villain shows even a small amount of humanity a new discourse on whether or not they deserve a redemption arc starts up. So is the problem that there are too many redemption arcs?

No, not at all.

In fact off the top of my head I can only name a couple of redemption arcs that actually complete and don't end with the character dying, Spike, Zuko, Catra, and uhhhhh..... uhhh.... Raskolnikov from Crime and Punishment.

There's not nearly enough redemption arcs and yet there's so much debate over the term 'redemption arc'. So here's my solution stop calling them redemption arcs, because using the word 'redemption' requires that the reader make a moral judgement on whether or not they have done enough to be morally redeemed.

A redemption arc is just a character arc. If you take out the word 'redemption' and just judge a redemption arc as a character arc, an arc where a character needs to change in a singificant way and be in a significantly different place than they were at the start of the story it becomes easier to discuss the quality of a redemption arc without turning it into a morality debate.

A redemption arc is just a regular character arc, where a character starts off in a much, much lower place.

You can describe most "redemption" arcs in the same way you would describe a regular character arc, in terms of a need / want arc. In most stories the main character starts out with a want, that drives them forward. In a disney movie, this takes the form of a disney princess "I want" song. The want is an external need that the main character actively pursues. My favorite disney princess Elphaba Thropp starts the story singing "The Wizard and I" about how she wants the Wizard to recognize her and see her for more than just the color of her skin, and make it so she's seen and accepted for who she is for the first time. Dorothy sings "Over the Rainbow" because she WANTS to get away from her dreary existence in Kansas and go somewhere else.

Contrasting this want is a need. This is something internal that they need to fix about thermselves in order to have a complete character arc. Oftentimes, the character is so distracted by what they want, they spend most of the plot failing to realize what they need to do in order to fix themselves. The need is a lesson, only attained upon self-reflection and self-evaluation, an honest step towards self-fulfillment. A character usually demonstrates growth by realizing what is important to them, what they need to do, instead of focusing only on what they want.

Elphaba realizes her want for acceptance is distracting her need to do right by outcasts who are just like her, which is why she chooses to become the wicked witch rather than stay by the wizard's side in Defying Gravity.

"You can have all you ever wanted." "But I don't want it. I can't want it, anymore."

Dorothy's I want song is all about how she wants to go somewhere far away, but at the end of the movie her greatest desire is to go home, and she's finally able to return to Kansas by clicking her heels after realizing how important home was to her. Glinda even says that Dorothy always had the magic inside of her to go home to begin with, she just needed to realize it, and her journey to Oz was all so she could make the internal realization of how important home was to her. Dorothy, the Tin Man, the Scarecrow, the Lion all go to the wizard to ask him to grant him their wish, something that they WANT, only for the Wizard to turn out to have no magic. The Wizard instead points out to all of them they already had those qualities inside themselves, he gives Scarecrow a Diploma because Scarecrow was always smart, he gives Tin Man a heart shaped watch because Tin Man was the most sensitive of all, and he gives the Lion a Medal because the Lion was always courageous never running away despite the faft he was a scaredy cat.

Anyway, the point of this tangent is I can put Zuko's arc in these simple need / want terms even though he starts the story as an antagonist, because a redemption arc is a regular character arc.

Zuko starts the story with a conflicting want and need. He wants to capture the avatar in order to restore his honor and gain his father's approval, but what he really needs to do is question what "reclaiming his honor" truly means. He needs to question the values of the country that he was born in and realize that the fire nation is wrong and what the fire nation is doing to the world is wrong. This conflict with his want, which is his desire for his father's approval, because in order to gain his father's approval Zuko has to act like a fire nation prince and contribute to the war effort.

Much more simply you could say that Zuko wants to meet his father's expectations and be a good son, but what he really needs to do is learn to be a good person by his own definition of right and wrong not his father's.

I would compare it to Elphaba's arc, Zuko would start singing "When I'm with the Wizard" and when he finally realizes that he doesn't want to exist to please his father especially when his father is hurting the world and so many people he'd bust out into "Defying Gravity."

My point being that Zuko is no different from any Disney Princess.

No, actually my point being that what Zuko is going through is just a regular character arc, it's just more complicated because he has more flaws than any of the other main characters.

But, every character starts out with a flawed understanding of the world. Every hero should have severe flaws that they need to overcome in order to learn and grow.

If anything I think the reason redemption arcs receive so much focus is that they are much more clear cut character arcs, because the characters who receive redemption arcs have glaring, obvious, flaws.

All characters should have flaws, there's no reason for a character to grow if they start out the story perfect. However, often the good guys, because they are the good guys will either be less flaw, or the plot will brush over their flaws and won't challenge them as much which is why their arcs will come off as less compelling than redemption arcs. Not because redemption arcs are automatically deeper, but because a redemption arc always starts out with a more obviously flawed chracter and the narrative HAS to address those flaws which is going to lead to a better character arc.

Redemption arcs are just regular character arcs, and I'm going to judge both Zuko and Spike's arcs as regular arcs in order to illustrate why in comparison's Zuko's is incomplete.

BTVS vs. ATLA

Buffy the Vampire Slayer seems like a strange show to compare to Avatar the Last Airbender, but they actually cover a wide range of similiar topics. They are both about the burden of being the chosen one, Aang being the Avatar who reincarnates again and again to try to lead the world to balance. Buffy is the Slayer, one girl in all the world who can hunt vampires.

Briefly, Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a show by Joss Whedon based around the concept of what if the Cheerleader who died in the first five minutes of every horror movie wasn't a victim, but instead was the thing that monsters were afraid of.

Buffy is a normal teenage girl whose life changes when she finds out she's the slayer, a girl gifted with super strength and combat ability who is tasked with using these abilities to fight off an endless army of demons and vampires that come her way. Usually at least once a season she fights a big bad that threatens to end the world. While at the same time, Buffy tries to maintain some form of a normal life, with her mother, her friends, and her mentor who teaches her how to be a better Slayer.

Aang, is a normal teenage boy who finds out when he is twelve years old he is the reincarnation of the spiritual leader of his people, the Avatar who is tasked with maintaining the balance between the four nations. Aang runs away from this responsibility and ends up frozen in the ice for 100 years. When he wakes up he finds out the fire natoin has killed all of the airebenders, and invaded over 3/4s of the war, and that if he doesn't master all four elements before Sozin's comet returns a year from now then the fire nation will likely use the power of the comet to permanently win the war.

She is also one in a long line of slayers, but while avatars reincarnate, the Slayer fights until they die and then a completely new Slayer takes over from there. Aang is able to bend all four elements and has a connection to the spirit world, Buffy has super strength and the ability to have visions. Both characters want to live a normal life, but because they are the chosen one they are forced to fight to save the world. They're both surrounded by a gang of friends who follow them because they are the chosen one, Buffy has the Scooby Gang, and Aang has Team Avatar / The Gaang.

Both stories are not only deconstructions of the pressures of being the chosen one, they are also bildungsroman that are about their main character growing up and learning adult responsibility alongside learning how to fulfill their role as the chosen one. They both die once and are magically revived. (Buffy voice: "Hey, I've died twice".)

Perhaps the biggest connection and the one this post is about is both shows are thematically about redemption, and eschew traditional Christian ideas of good and evil in favor of a more nuanced look at morality.

BUFFY He wants forgiveness. GILES Yes. I imagine he does. But when James possesses people they act out exactly what happened that night, so instead he's experiencing a form of purgatory. He's doomed to kill his Miss Newman over and over again - and forgiveness is impossible. BUFFY Good. He doesn't deserve it. GILES To forgive is an act of compassion, Buffy. It's not done because people deserve it. It's done because they need it. Now Buffy goes off - her spite palpable. BUFFY No. James destroyed the person he loved the most in a moment of blind passion. And that's not something you forgive. No matter why he did what he did. No matter if he know now that it was wrong and stupid and selfish. He's just going to have to live with it. XANDER He can't live with it Buff, he's dead.

They are both shows about forgiveness above all else, and this is why a major plotline in both shows feature a character who starts out as an antagonist making a long journey and eventually changing sides to join the heroes.

ZUKO VS SPIKE

So, since there are really no objective ways to determine the quality of a "redemption arc" because the idea of redemption is entirely subjective and based upon your personal beliefs, I am just going to judge Zuko's redemption arc by comparing it to what I consider a complete arc.

I am going to oultine the stages of Spike's arc, and why I consider his arc to be a complete arc and then compare Zuko and see if he checks all of the same boxes that Spike does.

There's really no objective criteria for judging redemption arcs. It's not like the hero's journey. So, in order to give this post some organization I'm going to make up my own template based on Spike's character arc, because I consider it to be a complete arc. I will be judging Zuko based upon how far he progresses through the different stages I outline in Spike's arc.

These stages are Origin - usually a tragic backstory, but is just a backstory that describes why the villain is the way they are currently and what circumstances led to their current motivations.

Season Two Spike - The character is just a straightforward antagonist, though usually with some redeemable qualities so the audience can see the potential for a future redemption. In terms of character arc, I would say that this is when a character is entirely guided by their mistaken assumption of the world.

Season 4 Spike - A dramatic change in circumstances for the villain, that forces them to re-evaluate their life. The antagonist usually loses their spot as main antagonist to someone else, or stops being an antagonist entirely but also has yet to join the good guys. This major shift in circumstances is what causes the antagonist to start re-evaluating themselves, it's meant to be a shocking eye opener.

Season 5 Spike - The hero now wants to be on the side of the good guys, but for all of the wrong reasons. They make overtures at redemption, but it's not true redemption yet because while they might be trying to do the right thing it's for mostly selfish reasons, or they still don't know what right and wrong truly are.

Season 6 Spike - Character regression, this is an inevitable part of almost any redemption arc, and honestly should be a part of good character arcs. Basically, the character regresses right before the big change, they get worse before they can get better, this is what adds tension to the story. This regression is necessary because a temporary reversion to their old self, and overcoming that regression is a way to demonstrate that the character has indeed permanently changed.

Season 7 / Season 1 of Angel - Spike The character is truly redeemed because they have done the work that they need to change, and as proof of that they have re-evaluated their previously flawed moral code, and now have invented a new set of morals to follow and live by. This is what I consider the most important part of a redemption arc, the character has to show proof that their way of thinking has changed. Every character starts with a flawed understanding of how the world works, and one of the biggest benefits of going through a character arc is the wisdom gained as a part of that journey. Every character arc should end with the question: "So, what have you learned?"

ORIGIN: The Storm vs Fool for Love

So this is going to start out making Zuko look like a way better character than Spike, but bare with me for a second. Zuko and Spike both receive entire episodes devoted to their backstories (Zuko gets two, but we're only discussing the Storm for now).

In the storm we learn the circumstances for Zuko's banishment, in parallel to learning exactly why Aang ran away from his own destiny as the avatar and how he ended up frozen in Ice. During the course of the episode, after Zuko orders his crew to sail right into a storm they start to express their displeasure about Zuko's treatment of them until Iroh takes one man aside and explains how Zuko was banished. That Zuko used to be a more idealistic prince, who was banished because he spoke up in a war meeting against the sacrifice of young fire nation soldiers. That the Zuko of the past was punished for trying to defend fire nation citizens and that's why the current Zuko is so desperate to find the avatar to restore his honor he disregards the safety of his crew.

At the end of the episode we are shown a glimmer of the old Zuko who once spoke out against sacrifice soldiers when he goes out of his way to save the life of one of his crewmen during the storm and drags them back onboard.

Spike's origin was that he's bad poet, and everyone laughed at his poems so he decided to become a vampire.

See when I describe it like that, it makes Zuko sound like such a better character, because his backstory is obviously more sympathetic. If the reason Zuko was banished was because everyone laughed at his bad poetry, I think it would be much harder for audiences to connect with him on an emotional level.

However, Spike's backstory works in spite of the fact that it's not immediately sympathetic. It doesn't need to be a tragic backstory, because it establishes the same thing that Zuko's does, once Spike was a normal person before he was led astray.

Both of these backstories exist to portray the humanity of the antagonist, and also the reasons why they want the thing they want. I'm going to simplify both characters for the sake of comparison, but arguably both Spike and Zuko want the same thing. They both want love and approval from an external source. They are both chasing love, for Zuko it's chasing his father's love and approval, and for Spike it's chasing first Drusilla's love, an d then Buffy's. Both are also willing to completely remake themselves into someone they're not in order to get their love, Zuko acts like a much harsher version of himself that's obsessed with war and conquest because he thinks that's what his father wants. Spike basically remakes his entire personality depending on the person he's in love with, he decides to be a good guy only because he falls in love with Buffy and decides that if he's good now Buffy will love him back. However, before that Spike remade himself into a vampire because he thought that is what would impress Drusilla.

They've both completely remade themselves in order to please someone else, but there remains some hints of their original self. By the end of the episode after spending the whole episode acting out their aggressive persona, Spike and Zuko give a sign that the person they were in their origin story is still there. Zuko saves a crewmember from drowning, and Spike ends the episode trying to comfort Buffy even after she's rejected him and made it clear that there's no chance of a relationship happening between the two of them.

Buffy looks up at the sound, her face wet with tears. BUFFY What do you want now? Spike is about to pull the trigger when he sees her tears and through them, her pain. His rage vanishes in an instant. SPIKE What's wrong? BUFFY I don't want to talk about it. Spike lowers the g*n. SPIKE Is there something I can do? Buffy says nothing, the reality of her mother's situation hitting her like a steel weight, overcoming her. Spike sits down next to her and tentatively pats her back, trying to comfort her. She lets him.

Both of these episodes follow the same formula, and the Storm is my favorite episode of Avatar the Last Airbender, but I'm still going to elaborate right out the gate on why I think "Fool for Love" does a better job at spinning an origin story.

This is where I'm going to start outlining one of my major problems with Zuko's redemption arc too, in that it cares more for audience pathos than it does the actual events that happen in the story. Zuko basically wears a t-shirt that signals he's going to get a redemption arc, so a lot of the steps in his arc feel signposted.

Starting with the episode itself, like we learn about Zuko's tragic backstory, because Iroh was explaining to the crew that this is the reason why Zuko was treating him poorly, and therefore the crew should feel sorry for him. This isn't who Zuko really is, this is who he is as a result of trauma, and let me explain the trauma so you will now sympathize and understand him better.

It's not bad, it's just less organic. You can see the author's fingerprints what I'm saying, and remember this is my favorite episode of ATLA so I'm not saying this is a bad episode. I just prefer Fool for Love because it's more interested in exploring Spike as a character, it's not telling the audience to feel sorry for him.

Fool for Love is an episode that begins when Buffy accidentally slips and is stabbed by one of the random mook vampires, the ones she usually kills without a problem every night. This small slip almost killing her leads to her to have a crisis, as she tries to figure out what went wrong exactly.

She ends up going for Drinks with Spike, and pays him money to tell her about the two slayers that he's killed in the past one hundred years. She's hoping that since Spike has killed two slayers, he can tell her what her mistake was, what her weakness is so she can fix it.

Spike who has fallen in love with Buffy that point, ends up treating the entire night like a date. He tells Buffy his entire life story, as a means of answering her question. First that he was nothing more than a poet named William Pratt, called William the Bloody for his Bloody Awful Poetry. That he fell in love with sire Drusilla and had an eternal love with her that lasted more than a hundred years, and in the process reinvented his personality from a sensitive poet to a violent vampire that relished in bloodshed. That he eventually became bored with his immortal existence and started to chase after slayers because they are the only thing that can kill vampires as powerful and old as he, and killing one in the boxer rebellion, and one in the 1970s.

In between the story of the two slayers he killed, we also see a highlight reel of Spike's romantic failures. Spike confessed to a girl asking her to see that he was a good person deep down only for her to say she was beneath him.

SPIKE I know I'm a bad poet but I'm a good man and all I ask is that... that you try to see me- CECILY I do see you. That's the problem. You're nothing to me, William. You're beneath me. She stands and walks off, leaving Spike devastated and alone.

Spike then is eventually rejected by Drusilla his forever love, and the girl he became a vampire to try and impress. Then at the end of the episode he's rejected by Buffy in the exact same manner.

BUFFY Say it's true. Say I do want to. She shoves him to the ground and looks down at him with disgust. BUFFY It wouldn't be you, Spike. It would never be you. She tosses the wad of cash at him contemptuously. BUFFY You're beneath me. Buffy turns and walks off into the night, leaving Spike alone in the dark alley.

Spike became a vampire because he was too sensitive to survive as a normal person. Yet deep down he wanted to be loved for who he is, not for the person he is pretending to be, yet every time he asks someone to see the real him he's told again and again that he's beneath them.

The entire episode is basically about all the ways that Spike changed himself, in order to hide that softer version of himself and try to be a version of himself someone would loved, and how that failed over and over again.

A character needs to start out the story with a flawed understanding of the world. Spike and Zuko both have a very flawed understanding of what will get them love, Spike sees becoming a vampire as the greatest thing that ever happened to him, and Zuko sees that he needs to be a better, more vicious prince like his father wanted him to be and capture the avatar to restore his honor.

BUFFY So you traded up on the food chain. Then what? SPIKE No, please. Don't make it sound like something you'd flip past on the Discovery Channel. Becoming a vampire is a profound and powerful experience. I could feel this new strength coursing through me. Getting k*lled made me feel alive for the very first time. I was through living by society's rules. Decided to make a few of my own. Of course, in order to do that... I had to get myself a g*ng.

However, the story is much harsher on Spike. No one really takes Buffy aside and sits down to explain to her "Here's why you should be more patient and understanding with Spike, because before he turned into a vampire he was a very different person." No, in fact Spike explaining his entire backstory to Buffy doesn't win him any sympathy points in her eyes at all. After learning everything about him he's still "beneath her".

Arguably it doesn't really engender much sympathy with the audience either. Who is more sympathetic, the guy with the obvious facial scar who was kicked out of his home by his abusive father and is now pursuing the avatar because it's the only way for him to return home... or the guy who's a bad poet who's sad because his girlfriend dumped him.

However, I find Spike's to be more complex because it doesn't tell the audience that Spike is sympathetic and redeemdable, it just shows that through his last action of choosing to comfort Buffy when he saw her crying alone on the porch in spite of the fact she rejected him. Zuko's origin story episode does the same thing, and if you had cut the fact that Iroh was explaining this to Zuko's crew so they'd go easier on him it'd be entirely show and not tell.

Jeel: I'm sick of taking his orders! I'm tired of chasing his Avatar! I mean, who does Zuko think he is? Iroh:Do you really want to know?

Imagine if it was Zuko explaining his backstory to one of his crewman, and then at the end much like Buffy the crewmember went "I don't care you're still an asshole" and then Zuko had to save them anyway. That would make the moment feel a lot less telegraphed and a lot more earned.

SEASON 4 of Buffy:

I'm going to skip the seasons where Spike and Zuko are main antagonists, because I think I already established what their flaws are, and what their want/need arc is. Both Zuko and Spike wrap themselves in anger and aggression, in order to mask their softer sides. They want love, and they pursue it by trying to earn it by accomplishing external goals, instead of doing the hard work of fixing themselves. They need to become better people, but they ignore this need in favor of their want.

This is most apparent in Season 2 of Avatar, and Season 4 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In season 4, Spike returns to Sunnydale only to have a chip put in his head that shocks him every time he tries to harm a human. Now that he's incapable of being a vampire, Spike has an existential crisis that leads him to re-evaluate his life. However, Spike does not conclude that he needs to become a better person.

In fact Spike spends the entire season in denial of the change of the circumstances in his life. Instead of trying to change for the better, Spike just wants to get the chip out of his head so he can go back to being a vampire.

Denial of the change in circumstances, and wanting to go back to being their old selves is what colors this stage of the redemption arc. Zuko also, is declared an enemy of the fire nation after his actions in the seige of the north pole. He no longer has his ship and crew, has to live the life of a refugee, and his much more competent sister takes down hunting the avatar.

During this season changing sides does not cross Zuko's mind either. He spends the entire season wanting to go back to being a prince, and in denial of his change of circumstances. He cannot accept that he a royal is now living the life of a beggar. He steals an ostrich horse from a couple who helps heal his uncle. He declares himself the prince of the fire nation after fightnig off some bully earth army soldiers and then acts confused as to why the locals seem disgusted with him.

All characters start the story with an incorrect view of how the world works, and instead of mending their incorrect beliefs, Zuko and Spike in this respective stage of their arcs choose to keep clinging to those incorrect beliefs. They are still pursuing that want, and ignoring what they need even though that want gets farther and farther out of reach. The idea that Spike might want to change sides to the good guys does not even occur to him, because he defines himself as an evil monster.

Spike: (looking around) I admit, it's a bit of a fixer-upper. Needs a woman's touch. (looks at Giles) Care to have a crack at it? Giles: While I'd loved to go on trading jabs with you, Spike, perhaps I'll come to the point. As much as it pains me to say it, um, I owe you a debt of gratitude for the help you provided me in my recent . . . metamorphosis. Spike: (rubbing a crick out of his neck) Stuff the gratitude. You owe me more than that, mate. Giles pulls out a small bundle of dollar bills and offers it to him. Giles: Three-hundred. Count it if you'd (Spike snatches it out of his hand). . . like. Spike: I'll do that. While Spike starts counting the money, Giles looks the place over. Giles: Um, thinking about your affliction and, uh, your newfound discovery that you can fight only demons; it occurs to me that (chuckling) I realize this is completely against your nature but I-I-I-- Has it occurred to you that there may be a higher purpose-- Spike: Ugh! You made me lose count. (faces him) What are you still doing here? Giles: Talking to myself, apparently. Spike: Well piss off, then. (indicates the money in his hands) This bit of business wraps up any I got with you and your Slayerettes. From here on I want nothing to do with the lot of you. Giles: Your choosing to remain in Sunnydale might make that a little difficult. Spike: Well you and yours will just have to show a little restraint is all. Get out. Giles doesn't say anything and heads for the door. Spike: (following) And I don't want you crawling back here knocking on my door pleading for help the second Teen Witch's magic goes all wonky or little Xander cuts a new tooth. We're through. You got it? Giles opens the door and Spike flinches away from the brightness. He looks over his shoulder at the vampire and his eye twitches. His feelings might be a little hurt. Spike: (callously) Honeymoon is over. Giles leaves without a word.

Spike in particular receives help from the good guys several times, and refuses to change sides because of his denial of his change in circumstances. When Spike first escapes after getting chipped, he receives shelter from Buffy and Giles, lives with them under hiding for a long time, only to spit on them several times and learn nothing from the experience. At the end of the season he even betrays them to the bad guy for the chance at having his chipped removed so he can go back to being a vampire.

Zuko receives an offer from Katara to help heal Iroh with the same hostility. Though, there are more consequences to Spike spitting in the face of the Scooby Gang, because in season 5 and season 6 when he decides he wants to start getting along with them because he's in love with Buffy they are all reluctant to let him join because they all collectively hold him accountable for his previous behavior.

Either way though the pattern of behavior is the same, Zuko and Spike refuse to acknowledge the changes to their lives and leap at the opportunity to go back to their old life. They only think about their wants to the point where it distracts them to the reality of the situation.

Iroh: So, the Blue Spirit. I wonder who could be behind that mask ... Zuko:[Sighs and takes off the mask.] What are you doing here? Iroh: I was just about to ask you the same thing. What do you plan to do now that you've found the Avatar's bison? Keep him locked in our new apartment? Should I go put on a pot of tea for him? Zuko: First I have to get it out of here. Iroh:[Starts yelling.] And then what!? You never think these things through! [Points at him.] This is exactly what happened when you captured the Avatar at the North Pole! You had him, and then you had nowhere to go! Zuko: I would have figured something out! Iroh:No! If his friends hadn't found you, you would have frozen to death! Zuko: I know my own destiny, Uncle! Iroh: Is it your own destiny, or is it a destiny someone else has tried to force on you? Zuko: Stop it, Uncle! I have to do this! Iroh: I'm begging you, Prince Zuko! It's time for you to look inward and begin asking yourself the big questions. Who are you, and what do you want?

Both Zuko and Spike are refusing to answer the big questions, and only focusing on getting what they want, even as what they think they want gets farther and farther out of reach.

I'm not going to speak too unfavorably of Zuko's arc in comparison of Spike's here, because the denial of both characters is portrayed well except to say that Spike's is harder hitting. If only because as I'll cover later, the Good Guys actually remember the multiple times they saved Spike's life and he spat in their faces for it, and this infleunces their behavior towards him in later seasons and makes his redemption arc harder.

SEASON FIVE of BUFFY

This part I'm going to have to go slightly out of order because Spike follows this order, in season 5 he redeems himself for the wrong reasons, in season 6 he regresses as a character, and in season 7 he finally redeems himself for the right reasons after climbing back from his lowest point and committing to the work of self improvement. The regression stage is important because it's what shows the audience that the redemption will stick, that the character won't fall back on bad habits.

Zuko's arc is slightly out of order. Instead of the redeeming himself for false reasons, he skips right to the character regression stage. He chooses to go back to the fire nation, spends ten episodes regressing as a character after betraying his uncle in favor of everything he's ever wanted, and then finally after the Day of Black Sun joins the good guys in order to correct his mistake.

However, I think by skipping the "redeems himself for the wrong reasons" stage we are missing out something critical, which is why Zuko's redemption in the last half of season 4 reads to me as so rushed and incomplete. Now, let me attempt to explain the reasons for my reading, by explaining what I think is so brilliant of Spike's arc in Season 5 of Buffy.

To begin with I am going to explain what I mean by Spike is redeeming himself for the wrong reasons. In order to do that I am going to borrow a lot of quotes from this meta on ao3, Spike, Buffy, Angel & Romanticism.

When I say Spike is redeeming himself for the wrong reasons, what I mean is Spike is genuinely trying to help the good guys, but his understandings of good and evil are flawed because he is a soulless monster without a conscience that helps him judge between good and evil. For Spike, much like Zuko, most of his jugdements are based on what he thinks will give him approval. He is chasing external validation from others, and therefore he has no internal moral code. Even when Spike is trying to help out the good guys in Season 5, his motives are impure (he's just trying to score good boy points because he thinks if he demonstrates he's a good person Buffy will fall in love with him). He also has not truly changed, because Spike is still seeking external validation, he just wants Buffy's validation instead and he thinks acting like a good guy is how he will earn it. He's changed the person he's trying to please, but he hasn't really changed anything about himself.

Yet, Spike spends the entirety of season 5 convinced that he is a monster who is redeeming himself. That is one interesting layer of both Zuko and Spike's arcs, they both think they are on journeys of redemptions. Zuko thinks that capturing the avatar will redeem his honor, because in the eyes of his violent culture that is what will redeem him by fire nation standards. He doesn't stop to think whether or not fire nation standards are incorrect, or like Uncle suggests whether this is his destiny or jsut a destiny someone else forced upon him.

Spike on the other hand sees himself as a romantic figure, much like Zuko. When he falls in love with Buffy, he convinced that loving Buffy is what redeems him and he will become a good guy out of love for her. Just like Zuko, he views himself as a protagonist of a story about a man on a redemption quest but has absolutely no idea what true redemption would even entail.

However, Buffy goes a lot harder on deconstructing Spike's view of himself as a romantic hero. Spike is a poet, he is a romantic, he sees the world through a certain romanticized lens like it is a story where he is the main character and Season 5 goes through great lengths to disabuse him of that notion.

Moreover, the episode reveals his entire aesthetic and personality to essentially be a construct. But most tellingly of all, it reveals him to be an idealist. Spike is not just a performance artist; he yearns for the “effulgent”, for something “glowing and glistening” that the “vulgarians” of the world don’t understand. In other words, he yearns for something bigger and more beautiful than life: something romantic. Later, he chases after “death, glory, and sod all else.” Spike may be a “fool for love”, who has a romantic view of romantic love specifically, but the episode is very clear about the fact that he is also a romantic more generally. When Drusilla turns him, she doesn’t tempt him by telling him she’ll love him forever. She tempts him by offering him “something…effulgent”. (Which, in typical Spike form, the episode immediately undercuts by having him say “ow” instead of swooning romantically). The fact that “Fool For Love”, Spike’s major backstory episode, is so determined to paint him as a romantic–and in particular, a disappointed, frustrated romantic–that it is willing to contradict canon to do so, tells you that this choice was important for framing Spike and his new, ongoing thematic role. (Impalementation)

Zuko and Spike both start out with a flawed understanding of the world. They have this certain narrative about themselves, and if they follow the script then things should work out the way they expect it to. Zuko's script is if he brings the avatar back home he'll earn his father's love and restore his honor, which is continually frustrated by the fact that Zuko is not the person that he is trying to be. He's not competent enough to bring the avatar back, not ruthless enough to survive in the world of fire nation politics. He's doing everything he can to follow the story, but the story keeps proving to be false and Zuko can't cope because he's working with a flawed understanding of the world., The narrative lens which he applies to everything is twisted by Fire Nation propaganda and his own trauma, and because he hasn't seen anything else he can't see it.

Spike is basically doing the same thing, he is a vampire who has read both Dracula and Anne Rice, he knows the tropes of the soulful vampire. As impalementation points out above Spike is a romantic and a disappointed romantic at that, he longs for a world that plays out like the stories he's read, longs to roleplay the chivalric romance of a knight protecting their love, first with Drusilla and then with Buffy, only to be disappointed at every turn. Spike has read lots of books, and he too thinks that reality is supposed to function like a story though in Spike's case it's a love story between a loyal knight and the one they serve, and when reality goes off script Spike cannot cope.

We’ve talked in the past about how season five is all about the tension between the mythical and the mortal–between big, grand, sweeping narratives, and the reality of being human. Buffy is the Slayer, but she’s also just a girl who loses her mother. Dawn is the key, but she’s also just a confused and hormonal fourteen-year-old. Willow is a powerful witch, but she also just wants her girlfriend to be okay. Glory is a god, but she’s also a human man named Ben, and finds herself increasingly weakened by his emotions. And Spike embodies this tension perfectly. He’s a soulless vampire with a lifetime of bloodshed behind him, but he’s also this silly, human man who wants to love and be loved. He wants big, grand things, but every time they are frustrated by a Victorian society, a rejection, a chip, a pratfall, or dying with an “ow”. Furthermore, his season five storyline is all about the tension between loving in an exalted, yet often selfish way, versus loving in a “real” or selfless way. (Impalementation).

Both ATLA and Buffy explore the idea that these characters are following false narratives, that they're thinking of themselves like characters in a story. ATLA goes a long way to deconstruct what Fire Nation propaganda is, and the way Zuko's understanding of honor is tainted by the culture he grew up in, that despite being obsessed with honor he doesn't really understand what restoring honor would truly mean. However, it doesn't go to quite the lengths that Buffy does, in completely peeling away the romanticism until the reality is left underneath.

All throughout Season 5, every time Spike attempts to be good it's purely transactional. Spike thinks of himself as a vampire who is redeeming himself out of love, so he thinks if he starts performing good deeds that Buffy will begin to see him in a different light. Only to be rebuffed (haha) again and again when characters refuse to play along to his script.

Rupert Giles : We are not your friends. We are not your way to Buffy... There is no way to Buffy... Clear out of here. And Spike, this thing... get over it ...

The Scooby Gang doesn't want him hanging around because he spent all of season 4 spitting in their faces every time they tried giving him a chance.

So at first, Spike’s “deeds” tend to be shallow and vaguely transactional. He tries to help Buffy in “Checkpoint” even though she doesn’t want it (and insults her when she doesn’t appreciate it), he asks “what the hell does it take?” when Buffy is unimpressed by him not feeding on “bleeding disaster victims” in “Triangle”, he rants bitterly at a mannequin when Buffy fails to be grateful to him for taking her to Riley in “Into the Woods”, and he is angry and confused when Buffy is unmoved by his offer to stake Drusilla in “Crush”. But these incidents of self-interested narrativizing are also continuously contrasted with scenes in which Spike reacts with real generosity, or is surprised when he realizes he’s touched something emotionally genuine. When Buffy seeks him out in “Checkpoint”, his mannerisms instantly change when he realizes she actually needs real help (“You’re the only one strong enough to protect them”), rather than the performed help he offered at the beginning of the episode. At the end of “Fool For Love” he’s struck dumb by Buffy’s grief, and his antagonistic posturing all evening melts away. He abandons his romantic vision of their erotic, life-and-death rivalry in favor of real, awkward emotional intimacy. In “Forever” he tries to anonymously leave flowers for Joyce, and reacts angrily when he’s denied—but this time not because he wanted something from Buffy. Simply because he wanted to do something meaningful. (Impalementation).

Season 5 goes to great lengths to show the duality between the real and the romantic, when Spike's actions are motivated by his grand ideas of romance, and when the real selfless gestures of affection are shown.

Expressly, Spike does not get a reward, even for his real moments of generosity. The season begins with Buffy telling Spike that she's beneath her. At the end of Season 5, Spike's realization is that Buffy doesn't love him, but she treats him like a man and that's enough, and he has that realization when she's standing on top of a staircase still above him. Spike has learned in some part the difference between real selfless love, but he isn't immediately given what he wants for it. The reward is the revelation itself, a one hundred year old vampire slowly learning what real love is.

The season doesn't even reward Spike for acting like a true selfless knight at the end of the season, because even after he laerns how to finally be selfless the romanticsism is ripped away. Spike no longer makes demands of Buffy's love, and he's happy just being able to help fight with her and protect her, and he fails to both protect Buffy's sister Dawn in spite promising to, and is unable to do anything but watch Buffy jump to her death.

Spike spends the entire season trying to redeem himself for the wrong reasons, and even when he finally does start fighting for the right reasons he's not magically rewarded because Buffy the Vampire Slayer is much more interested in the reality of exploring what it would mean for a soulless monster to redeem himself even though the universe doesn't give him a reward for getting enough good boy points, then it is the romantic story of a beast being saved by the power of his selfless love.

SEASON SIX of BUFFY

In season Six of Buffy, and the first half of Season 3 of Avatar the Last Airbender, both Spike and Zuko hit their character regression and lowest points after being given everything they think they want. For Spike that is a relationship with Buffy that quickly spirals out of control, and for Zuko that is his father's approval and a seat at his father's side in the war room.

When Zuko returns home to the fire nation, he finds himself too changed to be satisfied by the things he thought he wanted when he was thirteen. This leads him to succumb to paranoia, send assassins after Aang, have frequent explosions of anger, and finally do some deep introspection.

Zuko: [Turning around.] For so long I thought that if my dad accepted me, I'd be happy. I'm back home now, my dad talks to me. Ha! He even thinks I'm a hero. [Close-up of Azula, who smiles.] Everything should be perfect, right? [Aerial view of campsite.] I should be happy now, but I'm not. [Turning back to the others.] I'm angrier than ever and I don't know why!

Spike and Zuko are both given what they want, just when they were starting to learn to let go of the idea of chasing that want and it throws them for a loop. The scoobies begrudgingly accept Spike's presence, and Buffy begins to reciprocate Spike's affection for the first time. Only for that relationship to spiral into one that is mutually unhealthy and codependent.

The regression brings about an identity crisis in both characters. As Zuko and Spike both are still trying to cling to stories in order to provide them with answers for who they are, and what they are doing wrong. Except Zuko is starting to see through the fact that most of the stories the fire nation told him are lies.

Buffy finds herself unable to live up to her personal ideal, and Spike becomes confused about what ideal he’s supposed to be living up to. As their identities dissolve, both of them try to fill the emptiness with different stories. As for Spike, his identity begins to dissolve and he uses romantic stories as a crutch to tell himself who he is, he plays the brooding vampire boyfriend because he is "no longer a monster" but he can't be a man either.

From their very first kiss, it’s clear that the Buffy and Spike relationship will be about using stories to hide out from the confusion of life. Notice how Buffy’s line that “This isn’t real, but I just wanna feel” is overlaid by the trappings of a cliche Hollywood clinch. It’s less to me about what Buffy “really” feels for Spike, and more of a meta statement: stories aren’t real, but they do make you feel something. And that’s what Buffy wants. Their kiss is the culmination of Buffy trying and failing to be the things expected of her. She tries to dress up like the bot at the end of “After Life”, she tries to act the competent applicant in “Flooded”, she tries on all sorts of identities in “Life Serial”, and in “Once More, With Feeling” she sings openly of how she cannot either live up to her Slayer self, or “be like other girls.” (One of the most brutal images in season six to me, and which foreshadows this arc, is Buffy in “Bargaining, Part Two” in her black funeral dress, watching the idealized Buffybot in white get ripped to pieces). Spike, similarly, has been at a crossroads of identity for years. In season four, he tried to cling to the “bad” identity the Initiative stole from him, and in season five, he tried to replace that identity with a noble, Knightly, Lover identity instead. But when Buffy pulls that identity out from under him too, treating him not “like a man” but as a “dead man” who “isn’t real”, the longstanding shakiness of his selfhood becomes undeniable. (Impalementation).

Either way what the regression demonstrates for both characters is that no change they try to make ever sticks, because their sense of self is so shaky, because for both Zuko and Spike they have been building up themselves based entirely around what other people want. In order to have a stronger sense of identity, they'd have to stop clinging to stories which provide them an easy answer to who they are and instead figure out who they want to be.

Spike is quite literally forced to re-evaluate who he is when he is no longer allowed to play the part of a monster. The ugliness of reality, and of Spike's actions when he does the REALLY BAD THING (which I'm not discussing because I don't want to put a trigger warning on this post) breaks him free of any kind of role he's trying to play.

SPIKE: You know, everything used to be so clear. Slayer. Vampire. Vampire kills Slayer, sucks her dry, picks his teeth with her bones. It’s always been that way. I’ve tasted the life of two Slayers. But with Buffy… (grimacing in anguish) It isn’t supposed to be this way! He grabs a piece of furniture and shoves it over, with accompanying crashing noises. SPIKE: (angrily) It’s the chip! Steel and wires and silicon. (sighs) It won’t let me be a monster. (quietly) And I can’t be a man. I’m nothing.

Both Spike and Zuko are put through character regression for two reasons, one to illustrate to them that the things that they wanted aren't what they want and won't make them happy, and two to make them question the stories that they've been told to strip away romanticism, and be real people.

In order to grow as people, they must first learn to question all of the stories they've been told, and stop listening to stories and think of what they want, to form their own identity. The only way to change as a person, is to... look at yourself critically as a person.

Thus the resolutions of Buffy and Spike’s arcs in season six are all about personhood and change. They’re about letting go of stagnant, destructive illusions and embracing the idea of living and growing in the world. They’re about seeing beyond romantic roles, and accepting responsibility for one’s own identity. (Impalementation).

This is where I once again will argue that spike's redemption is superior, because while Zuko and Spike both reach their lowest points it's Spike who actually has all of his narratives stripped away and is challenged to become his own person and think about how he is and what he wants, whereas Zuko never fully stops thinking of himself as a romantic hero. By the end of season 6, Spike is on a journey to learn who he is as a person, whereas on the day of Black Sun and the rest of Season 3, we're still following the story of a prince on a journey of redemption.

It's because by the end of season 6, Spike's journey has entirely focused on the internal, how can he be a man? If he's a soulless monster, then is it possible for him to be a person living in the world like Buffy is? On the other hand, Zuko's arc never changes from an external to an internal goal.

Zuko is still tied up in notions of destiny and honor like he is a main character in a story.

Iroh: Because understanding the struggle between your two great-grandfathers can help you better understand the battle within yourself. [Zuko sits down, with his head facing down.] Evil and good are always at war inside you, Zuko. It is your nature, your legacy. But, there is a bright side. [Zuko looks up.] What happened generations ago can be resolved now, by you. Because of your legacy, you alone can cleanse the sins of our family and the Fire Nation. Born in you, along with all the strife, is the power to restore balance to the world. (Season 3, the avatar and the firelord).

If Iroh didn't tell Zuko that good and evil were at war inside of him, and that he's from a special bloodline because he's descended from both Roku and Sozin and therefore this means it's a part of his destiny to bring balance would Zuko have done the same amount of self reflection?

While Spike is faced with unrelenting reality, Zuko has the notion that he is a romantic hero reinforced over and over again, most particularly by Iroh. Spike doesn't have anybody sit there and point out for him that he's at war with himself and doesn't know whether to be a man or a monster, because Spike is actually capable of self reflection. Whereas, Zuko seems to do everything because he's told that destiny said so. He doesn't move until he's told he's the romantic hero following a pre-planned destiny.

Zuko: But I've come to an even more important decision. [Closes eyes and momentarily pauses.] I'm going to join the Avatar and I'm going to help him defeat you. Ozai: [Smugly.] Really? Since you're a full-blown traitor now and you want me gone, why wait? I'm powerless. You've got your swords. Why don't you just do it now? Zuko: Because I know my own destiny. Taking you down is the Avatar's destiny. [Puts his swords away.] Goodbye.

Zuko is allowed to play the part of a character in a story and because of that he doesn't reach the same level of self-evaluation as Spike. He certainly tells us some things, like that he's learned that the fire nation is wrong, and that the war needs to stop but once again these things are more like telegraphed to us then actually shown onscreen.

Zuko's arc isn't really about learning that the fire nation is evil, like that's a part of it, but what his arc is really about is learning that his father was abusive and instead of living to please his abusive father he needs to figure out what type of person he wants to be.

Which is why I compare him to Spike, a character who's arc revolves around love, who isn't a part of a fascist regime currently colonizing the world like Zuko's is. In fact in spite of Zuko witnessing the poverty of the world and going through the experience of being a refugee, and the one time a bunch of farmers were angry at him for being the prince of the fire nation in Zuko Alone, we don't really see Zuko reflecting on the after effects of the war or the lies of fire nation propaganda. We are told that Zuko's arc is about these things, but most of the actual meat of Zuko's arc is instead Zuko learning that he doesn't have to bend over backwards to please an abusive father. You can stretch it and say that from that Zuko learned that the values his father taught him are all the wrong values, and that he has to learn how to be a proper prince but Zuko is more motivated by abuse and his desire for love then like reflecting upon what is morally right.

Which is why I made the comparison for Spike, but Spike's arc forces him to do a lot more self reflection on who he is, and forcing him to form his own identity outside of what others expect from him, even though Spike's character arc is much more blatantly about his selfish desire to be loved.

Like, what arc contains more self-reflection on the nature of good and evil and what growing to be a better person means, the arc about the boy who was prince of the evil empire, who became a refugee saw how his nation was destroying the world and teamed up with his father's worst enemy to take him down and end the war, or the 100 year old vampire who falls in love with the hero and starts stalking her.

The answer will surprise you.

As I said above it's because after a certain point, due to what probably were time constraints with not having a fourth season to work with Zuko's arc becomes very railroaded.

Spike has to step away from the role of monster, vampire, and lover in order to become a man, and begin the process of forming his own identity because that's what it means to be a person living in this world, to grow up and accept responsibility for your actions.

Zuko is told that it's his destiny to join the avatar and bring balance to the world, and so he does that because it's his destiny, and also he learned that the fire nation was evil at some point offscreen, and then he switches side to join the avatar and decides he wants to be firelord because that's his destiny too.

It's a good arc, and it's mostly complete and servicable, but also lacks a lot of the humanity that Spike's arc has because Zuko until the end is still playing the role of the romantic hero. We never see him break free of that role, and while the arc still works just fine, we are missing out on actually seeing Zuko do the hard work of forming his own identity.

Zuko spends the entirety of his time onscreen chasing external objectives, and by the time he's switched sides he still has an external objective he's chasing, he's still trying to live up to somebody else's standards rather than it's own it's just he's chasing the Avatar, and his Uncle's approval rather than the approval of his father.

SEASON SEVEN OF BUFFY

So season six ends with Spike hitting his lowest point and doing the really bad thing, and Zuko having betrayed team avatar and his Uncle in order to get his throne back. Now both of these characters have to deal with the consequences of what they did at their lowest points and slowly earn back the trust of the heroes and prove that this time they have changed for real.

I will say that Zuko's arc once again perfectly functionable. He spends enough time making it up to each person he's wrong, that it's believable that the gang would trust him. There is enough evidence that Zuko is not going to revert to his old ways again like he did at the end of season 2. He spends enough time onscreen working to earn his redemption and forgiveness of each cast member.

However, therein lies the rub, or at least what rubs me the wrong way about these sets of episode. I spent time during the Season 5 section of this post, discussing why skipping the "redemption for all the wrong reasons" stage is bad, and right here is why. Though this is supposed to be the climax of Zuko's redemption arc, it feels like Zuko is at the exact same place that Spike was in Season 5. Zuko is trying to redeem himself yes, but it's because he wants to earn good boy points and have the main characters trust him.

There is a scene where Zuko yells at Katara and asks why she won't forgive him, and it sounds like something Spike would say at Season 5.

Zuko: This isn't fair! Everyone else seems to trust me now! What is it with you? Katara: [Turns around furiously.] Oh, everyone trusts you now?! I was the first person to trust you! [Places her left hand on her heart.] Remember, back in Ba Sing Se. [Points to the ocean.] And you turned around and betrayed me, betrayed all of us! Zuko: [Closes eyes in resentment.] What can I do to make it up to you? Katara:[Cuts to shot of her and Zuko standing on the cliff as she approaches him while snapping at him angrily.] You really want to know? Hmm, maybe you could reconquer Ba Sing Se in the name of the Earth King. [Cuts to side-view of her and Zuko.] Or, I know! You could bring my mother back!

Everything about this scene indicates that Zuko's understanding of redemption is flawed, that much like Spike he's attempting to do good things to earn good boy points so the heroes will accept him.

There's nothing wrong with this, it's actually a part of a redemption arc to learn to do good things for the right reasons, not just to earn other people's approval. It's just Zuko himself never gets to the second part, because suddenly doing good things to earn good boy points starts working out for him.

The plot contrives several different field trips so he can make it up to each member of the gang he personally hurt, a field trip with Aang in order to learn about the true nature of fire bending, a revenge trip with Katara, a trip with Sokka to help him get his father out of prison.

However, when the plot doesn't present Zuko with a convenient way to redeem himself he doesn't really seem to care. When Toph tries to tell Zuko about her worries over her parents he blows her off, and when Suki confronts him about burning down her village it's just played off as a joke.

There's actually nothing wrong with Zuko only trying to redeem himself for selfish reasons because he wants the gang to accept him, it just doesn't get addressed. Since everyone accepts Zuko so easily, Zuko's never forced to do the hard work of forming his own identity instead of constantly seeking the approval of the people around him. As a result even though Zuko goes through a character arc, we don't actually learn that much about him as a person or what his true motives are because Zuko never reflects upon those things.

Zuko's arc still works if you view it as a romantic story, but not as a human one. It works as the story of the lost prince coming home and retaking the throne to set the nation on the right path, but not about Zuko the person.

Starting with the big apology both Zuko and Spike make. Zuko's apology is not to Katara, not to Aang, no the most important person he needs to apologize to is Iroh, because Zuko still has not broken away from the idea that he needs to live to please his father figure. His worst crime is not trying to kill the avatar repeatedly, but disappointing Iroh who believed in him.

Whereas Spike at least begins his scene with an apology to the person he hurt the most, Buffy. Spike's arc in season 7 is all about getting a soul, soemthing that makes him now capable of making a moral judgement. The first thing he does after getting a soul is finally feel guilt for the first time in one hundred years, and now with the added benefit of a conscious he realizes how horribly he had been treating Buffy all along.

Spike's big act of redemption is to seek out a soul, so he could become the type of man that would never hurt Buffy again.

Zuko's big act of redemption is to leave the fire nation and join the avatar's side... because, it's his destiny to do so.

See the difference here is Spike is challenged to form his own identity, by literally giving himself a conscience and the ability to feel guilt whereas Zuko just has to follow some destiny that was laid out for him. He doesn't have to question himself beyond "it's destiny". Whereas Spike's soul forces him to self, reflect because now that he's no longer a soulless monster he has to reflect on all the ways he has hurt the people in his life.

Spike's apology scene is also a lot different than Zuko's is to Iroh.

To begin with, Spike only appears to offer his help and tells Buffy that if she wants him to go away he will. He doesn't even tell Buffy that he got a soul for her sake, because he doesn't want her to feel obligated to forgive him. He spends the whole episode hiding it, until we at least reach the cross-hugging scene.

A scene which brilliantly shows the agony of feeling guilty and genuinely understanding you did something wrong and wanting to be forgiven, without prioritizing Spike's feelings of guilt and self-loathing over the feelings of the person he hurt.

SPIKE I dreamed of k*lling you. Keeping an eye on him, Buffy bends down to pick up a large splinter from the broken pews at her feet to use as a stake, if necessary. Spike starts pacing. SPIKE I think they were dreams. So weak. Did you make me weak, thinking of you, holding myself, and spilling useless buckets of salt over your... ending? Angel—he should've warned me. He makes a good show of forgetting, but it's here, in me, all the time. (walks around toward her from behind) The spark. I wanted to give you what you deserve, and I got it. They put the spark in me and now all it does is burn. Buffy's face shows shock, disbelief and, finally, comprehension. BUFFY Your soul. SPIKE (laughs) Bit worse for lack of use. Buffy turns to face him. BUFFY You got your soul back. How? SPIKE It's what you wanted, right? (looking at the ceiling) It's what you wanted, right? (presses his fingers to his temples, looks down, and walks toward the altar). And—and now everybody's in here, talking. Everything I did...everyone I— and him... and it... the other, the thing beneath—beneath you. It's here too. Everybody. They all just tell me go... go... (looks back over his shoulder to Buffy) to hell. BUFFY Why? Why would you do that— SPIKE Buffy, shame on you. Why does a man do what he mustn't? For her. To be hers. To be the kind of man who would nev— (looks away) to be a kind of man. Spike walks toward the 6-foot-tall crucifix altarpiece at the front of the chapel. Sounds like he's quoting something. SPIKE She shall look on him with forgiveness, and everybody will forgive and love. He will be loved. Spike's standing only a foot away from the crucifix, staring at it. SPIKE So everything's OK, right? (sighs) Spike embraces the crucifix, resting one arm over each side of the cross bar, and resting his head in the corner of the vertex. His body is sizzling and smoke is rising from where it touches the cross. SPIKE Can—can we rest now? Buffy...can we rest?

Spike is forced to be very honest about his desire to be forgiven and loved even though he's done bad things, and it is very selfish, and also very human to be grappling with those feelings in front of the person you hurt. Spike's desire for a release from guilt, to finally rest instead of having to struggle with everything he's done.

It's a genuine apology which is accompanied with proof that Spike has taken steps to show that he will never hurt Buffy that way again, that he specifically got a soul in order to become a man who can't hurt her that way.

In comparison this is Zuko's apology scene to Iroh, which is just as heartfelt but also, like everything in Zuko's arc just a little bit easier.

It is a genuine apology, but again my focus is on is Iroh the one that Zuko needs to apologize the most?

Zuko's character is all about his personal conflcits, his relationship with his uncle, and his newly made firends in the gang and learning to do right by them, even though it's supposedly supposed to be about him learning that the fire nation is wrong and how he needs to make the fire nation better.

In comparison, Spike's character arc is framed from the get go about those personal stakes. Buffy is the person he hurt the most so it makes sense he would apologize to her first before anyone else.

In Spike's apology scene Buffy doesn't even forgive him. She walks away and leaves him there hugging that cross. She sheds some tears for him and is clearly moved by his suffering, but the show clearly equates that Spike's suffering and remorse isn't enough until he's provided concrete proof in action that he's on the side of good now.

Spike doesn't get convenient field trips that let him earn back everyone's trust in Season 7. He is forced to help everyone, not because he wants to earn forgiveness, but because he wants to demonstrate that he has changed. What we witness in season 7 is now that Spike has accepted truly that being a good person won't make Buffy love him, he's now forced to grow as a person because he wants to live inside the world just like Buffy does. To grow and change like a real person would, not an undying thing.

Because Spike's arc is about taking this character that was an immortal being who had not changed in a hundred years, and making him want to change, and making him learn what it means to live in the world and continue growing and changing every single day like everybody else does.

Spike's reward for his efforts to be a better person isn't to be told that Buffy forgave him all along but that... she believes he can be a better person.

BUFFY No. I don't hate like that. Not you, or myself. Not anymore. You think you have insight now because your soul's drenched in blood? You don't know me. You don't even know you. Was that you who killed those people in the cellar? Was that you who waited for those girls? SPIKE There's no one else. BUFFY That's not true. Listen to me. You're not alive because of hate or pain. You're alive because I saw you change. Because I saw your penance. SPIKE (lunges violently at her, but chains hold him back) Window dressing. BUFFY Be easier, wouldn't it, it if were an act, but it's not. (walks toward him) You faced the monster inside of you and you fought back. You risked everything to be a better man. SPIKE Buffy... BUFFY (in his face) And you can be. You are. You may not see it, but I do. I do. I believe in you, Spike.

Spike isn't told that he's forgiven, or he's some destined hero, the only thing he's reassured about is that he has the capacity for change, which is because Spike's entire arc is about whether an undying monster can finally learn to change and how to be a better than.

I could go on longer, I could mention how in Season 5 of Angel Spike still has to be a good person even though Buffy isn't even around to support him. That's where Spike is truly challenged to stick to his goal of becoming a better person every day, even though he's not going to receive Buffy's love as a reward.

However, I'll end it here because I think I've made my point. Zuko's arc is fine, but it's also missing that final step that Spike's arc. As a redemption arc it's fine because in the eyes of the audience and the characters around Zuko, Zuko has clearly done enough to earn redemption. He has gone through the motions and shown onscreen that he has changed.

As a character arc it feels woefully incomplete for all of the reasons I listed above, because Zuko did not do the work that Spike did of learning what kind of man he wants to be. Zuko ends the story as a hero, but he never becomes his own person like Spike does.

#avatar meta #atla meta #zuko #iroh #btvs meta #buffy the vampire slayer #spike #buffy #buffy summers #avatar the last airbender

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bwat5-blog · 5 months ago

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A Brief Post Regarding Caitlyn's Redemption

**Spoilers For All Of Arcane**

Caitlyn Kiramman's fall from grace and redemption arc are maybe the most discussed topic from season 2. Personally, I find her arc more and more incredible the more I think, read and write about in the weeks following the finale. However! Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I Understand if you didn't like it. I understand if you felt it was rushed. But as this was the reason I started writing these, I do not understand people blatantly ignoring obvious points from the show in order to mischaracterize or insult Caitlyn or her arc. If you have to lie or ignore things to support your point, perhaps you should reconsider.

"Caitlyn never had to pay for any of her mistakes"- Internet people

Let me introduce you to the physical embodiments of her mistakes:

If you will kindly direct your attention to Arcane: League of Legends Season 2, Episode 9: The Dirt Under Your Nails. Maddie Nolan, the charming young murderess from the bottom image, the woman Caitlyn lets into her bed to distract herself from how she broke Vi's heart, is revealed to be a Noxian spy, coming within a hair of executing Caitlyn likely leaving a memory Caitlyn will always struggle with.

While the terrifying woman on-top, Ambessa Medarda, is the personification of Caitlyn's betrayal of her beliefs and values in exchange for her vengeance. Before Maddie dies Ambessa has already stabbed Caitlyn. By the time Maddie and Ambessa are both dead, Caitlyn has been stabbed, lost an eye, suffered a likely life-long injury to her knee when Ambessa kicked her that way, and been physically beaten to the point it's amazing she was even conscious.

This is the absolutely most bare-bones surface level point I can make with such a complicated and amazing character arc. And the actual cost of her mistakes goes much deeper than just physical wounds. Her evolution over the show is one of my favorites and I hope to some actually in-depth writing on her soon. But come on people. You literally have to be watching the show blind-folded to come up with some of these takes.

#arcane season 2 spoilers #caitvi #caitlyn kiramman #ambessa medarda #maddie nolan arcane #caitlyn arcane

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wangxianficfinder · 9 months ago

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I'm in the mood for...

July 31st

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1. Hii I'm kinda new here but if you can help me it would be awesome!! So basically, I don't know if there really a fic like that exactly, but anything close is great. I'm looking for a fic where lan zhan locks wei ying (probably in the cloud recesses), and for some reason, wei ying can't see/has eye cover. The idea is based on the scene where lan zhan says he wants to take someone (wei ying) and hide this someone. Thanks a lot😁 @untamedlover

A Way Out by pinkquilts (E, 143k, WangXian, Angst with a Happy Ending, Living Together, Canon Divergence, Slow Burn, First Love, Locked In, Major Character Injury, Fluff, Sharing a Bed, Unresolved Sexual Tension, Unresolved Tension, Drunken Shenanigans, WWX misinterprets literally everything, Miscommunication, Mutual Pining, Eventual Smut, Fix-It, Injury) Lan Zhan takes an unconscious Wei Ying back to Gusu and locks him in a warded cottage in A Way Out so it's close to the request but not quite what they ideally wanted.

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2. Hi! I would love recommendations for Wei Wuxian/Nie Mingjue if anyone has any! I loved “Better Things To Do With A Flute In Wartime” for the sexy times but mainly for the feeling like Nie Mingjue recognized that Wei Wuxian was more than just a troublemaker, he saw that Wei Wuxian was a strong, capable, smart man. Would love any recs people have for this duo! Thank you!

An Elegant Solution by giraffeter (E, 205k, niewangxian, canon divergence, arranged marriage, friends to lovers, fix-it, everyone lives au, courtship, polyamory, smut) unfortunately I don't have any nmj/wwx, it's nmj/wwx/lwj but I found the fic very enjoyable!

I’ll grow you a garden (in my fortress of stone) by Lyna_Mei (M, 16k, WIP, MingXian, Canon Divergence, CQL-Verse, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort, Cultivation Sect Politics, Canon-Typical Violence, Implied/Referenced Rape/Non-con, Past Child Abuse, Self-Esteem Issues, Genius WWX, Inventor WWX, Not Jiang Family Friendly, JYL is Not Angelic, No MY redemption, Somebody Lives/Not Everyone Dies, Slow Burn, Age Difference, Sporadic Updates)

When Night Falls by aspiratixxn (M, 28k, MingXian, canon-divergent, depictions of war, mild nudity, Slow Burn)

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3. hi there. this is an itmf request for baoshan sanren coming down from her mountain and claiming wwx as her grandson/disciple. in front of gentry would be great, but other instances are also welcome. thanks for all your hard work!

Become Tomorrow by ShanaStoryteller (Not rated, 39k, wangxian, BSSR/LY, Alternate Universe, a story full of tragic pining gays, and one chaotic gremlin, Cloud Recesses Study Arc, WWX is BSSR’s disciple)

Can't Tell Me Nothin by natacup82 (T, 35k, wangxian, Canon Divergence, Everybody Lives, Family Feels, Communication, BAMF Women)

🧡 Ghosts Shouldn’t by ShanaStoryteller (Not Rated, 15k, WangXian, Grief/Mourning, Canon Divergence, Angst with a Happy Ending)

🔒Through the Storm by marhikit (T, 33k, WangXian, WX/OMC, Not JC Friendly, Canon Divergence, Not Madam Yu Friendly, Not Jiang Family Friendly, WWX gets big siblings that love and adore him, JZX ends up with someone different, No Golden Core Transfer, Creepy JGS, JZX & WWX Friendship, WWX in a different sect)

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4. Hi!! 👋🥰

It's me! I'm on vacation finally, I missed you all so much, but I couldn't read fanfics during my exams (it's too distracting). But now I'm free again, so I'm here to ask a ITMF! Yey!

Lately I'd like to read fanfics in which:

A) LQ discover about the absence of WWX's core and decides to help WWX and the Wens. And bring all of them to Gusu.

B) LQ discover about the abuse of Madam Yu and decides that WWX will stay in Gusu. (I love when this happens during the Cloud Recesses Study Arc, but it's ok if this happens in other moment).

I like happy endings, and I prefer when the good people live (Wens, JY, JC...) and only bad people dies. Long fics if it's possible, but shorts are ok too. No modern fics.

Thank you for everything! 🤟🥰💕 @wangxiansgirl

4A)

Righteous at a Cost by thunderwear (G, 21k, wangxian, LQR & WWX, Canon Divergence, Fix-It, no one dies, LQR finds out about WWX’s core, WWX and LQR are friends??, In My Fic?, its more likely than you think, LWJ in the bg like whats happening?, Fluff, WWX goes to Gusu, Mutual Pining, Golden Core Reveal)

Weep You No More, Sad Fountains by athena_crikey (T, 59k, WangXian, LXC & LWJ, LXC & JGY, Canon Divergence, Fix-it fic, Whump, Curses, Fever, Delirium, Stabbing, Loneliness, Confessions, LWJ's emotional repression, WWX giving everything as always, LXC realising sympathy is not support, LQR Being an Asshole) Not quite the request, since it's LXC who ends up inviting WWX & the Wens to come to CR, but iirc LQR grudgingly agrees the Wens need help & can stay? So may be close enough to scratch that itch

Discordant Rhapsody by nirejseki (T, 49k, LQR & WWX, wangxian, JC & WWX, WQ & WWX & WN, LWJ & LQR & LXC, canon divergence, fix-it, hurt/comfort, trauma, politics, protective LQR, protective LWJ, protective WWX, LQR centric, whump, angst) 4a similar. It's been a while since I read the fic so I don't remember if there's an eventually Golden Core reveal, but it's not the reason LQR has for inviting WWX and the Wen to the Cloud Recesses. But hopefully this is similar enough that the requester will enjoy it anyway.

No Strings Attached by stiltonbasket (G, 3k, WangXian, NieLan,Canon Divergence, Fix-It, LQR is a good uncle, Smitten LWJ, Golden Core Reveal)

Righteous and Devoted by thunderwear (T, 7k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Fix-It, Golden Core Reveal, LWJ's POV, Barely Any Pining, thanks lqr, Fluff, lots of fluff, Everyone Lives/Nobody Dies)

4B)

Lessons relearned by Iamnotawriter (T, 44k, WangXian, LQR & WWX, Not Madam Yu Friendly, Time Travel Fix-It, Angst with a Happy Ending, Canon-Typical Violence, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Inventor WWX, It Gets Worse Before It Gets Better, No Golden Core Transfer, YZY Bashing)

🔒🧡 rain falls and soaks into the earth series by RoseThorne (T, 57k, WangXian, WIP, Near Death Experience, Attempt Drowning, Madam Yu Bashing, Recovery, No war AU)

💙 Holding shreds by barisan (T, 5k, WangXian, Cloud Recesses Study Arc, No Sunshot Campaign, Body Swap, Not for sexy shenanigans, Chronic Pain, Hurt WWX, Hurt LWJ, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Abusive YZY, Bad Parent YZY, Bad Parent JFM, Good Uncle LQR, Hurt/Comfort, Medical Inaccuracies, POV WWX, Angst with a Happy Ending, Jiāng Family Bashing, Tooth-Rotting Fluff, Getting Together, Smart WWX)

🔒 Warming up (to him) by barisan (T, 9k, LQR & WWX, WangXian, Hypothermia, Cloud Recesses Study Arc, Temporary Character Death, Medical Inaccuracies, YZY Abuses WWX, JFM Bashing, pre-wangxian, Good Uncle LQR, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort)

~*~

5. Hello everyone! I am on the search for case fics which are spooky and creepy! The kind of thing you would want to read to set the mood for Halloween, but it is actually July and thunderstorming and the wind is howling and you want to curl up with a scary story and a cat on your lap. Preferably everyone lives in the end, but I am down for angst or temporary character death in the in between. Thank you!!

You are what you eat by deliciousblizzardshark (E, 17k, WangXian, Graphic Depiction of Violence, Major Character Death, Canon Divergence, Eldritch WWX, Horny LWJ, Body Horror, Possession, of a sort, Cannibalism, kind of, Mild Gore, Teeth, When the eldritch abomination possessing you is less of a pining idiot than you are, I did not expect there to be so much fluff when I started writing a fic about an eldrich horror, Fluff and Humor, Smut, LWJ is so fucking thirsty, Oral Sex, Anal Sex, Monster sex, Switching, Light BDSM, Rimming, Self-Lubrication, Seriousness treated Crackily, Implied/Referenced Torture, Dead WWX, Podfic Available) Eldritch horror!WWX

build me no shrines by occultings (microcomets) (M, 54k, WangXian, Slow Burn, Mutual Pining, First Time, Getting Together, Confessions, Sharing a Bed, Hair Washing, Sentient Burial Mounds, Case Fic, Post-Canon, CQL Compliant, Hurt/Comfort, Whump, Light Angst, Flashbacks, mild body horror, foot washing, Happy Ending, Non-Sexual Intimacy..., then sexual intimacy, playing fast and loose with mdzs lore, WWX learning to accept intimacy without deflection, occasional LWJ humor agenda, 🔒 [Podfic] build me no shrines by flamingwell)

in your skin by darkredloveknot (enheduane) (E, 10k, WangXian, Post-Canon, Pre-Relationship, Getting Together, Horror, Body Horror, Blood and Gore, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort, Love Confessions, Non-Consensual Body Modification, kinda??, Reflections over death and self-worth, mentions of canon suicide, Near Death Experiences, 🔒 [Podfic] in your skin by flamingwell)

爱不释手; never let me go by yiqie (E, 68k, WangXian, Case Fic, Blood and Injury, Demons, Body Horror, [Podfic] 爱不释手; never let me go by argentumlupine)

lan wangji sees dead people by mountainrain898

~*~

6. Hi, I'm ITMF a fic where; (a) teenage wangxian meets adult wangxian maybe during cloud recess study arc and older wangxian time travel on purpose or accidentally and find themselves itn cloud recess (or something similar) (b) the other sects gather to plot against wei ying and they spy on burial mounds or find a way to view wei ying's memories (similar plot to seek and ye shall find) (c) do you know any au's where wangxian are professional gamers or play gaming competitions. @purplefuzzypickle

6A)

River Stones by littlesystems (M, 18k, WangXian, Time Travel, Post-Canon, Cloud Recesses Study arc, Junior Quartet, Oblivious WWX, Suffering LWJ, Voyeurism)

How did I end up with this Frozen Heart? by Grace_ShadowWolf (TaubeLePigeon) (T, 53k, WIP, WangXian, Time Travel, Fix-It, PTSD, Angst with a Happy Ending, YP!WWX, twin prides of yunmeng are horrified at the relationship between their future selves, YP!WWX has short hair, Canon Divergence, Self-Indulgent, wangxian get together early, Songfic, JC Bashing, LXC Bashing)

Timely by apathyinreverie (T, 8k, WangXian, Time Travel, Domestic WangXian, Fluff, Fix-It, Post-Canon, Cloud Recesses Study Arc, Mutual Pining, wwx is sunshine personified, Smitten LWJ, Genius WWX, Romance) I'll also throw in Timely which just has Lan Wangji's spirit traveling from his teen years to when he's married to Wei Wuxian.

6B)

💖 The Path by Seastar98 (Not Rated, 279k, WangXian, CQL Verse, Golden core reveal, Fix-it of sorts, Angst with a happy ending)

6C)

simping for hanguang-jun by defractum (nyargles) (T, 6k, WangXian, Modern AU, YouTubers WangXian, Fluff, Among us game, Streamer AU)

~*~

7. Hello, could you please recommend works where WY and LZ meet for the first time when they are older. For example over 30.

Thank you!

The Fault in Our Stars by Vamillepudding (T, 17k, WangXian, Modern AU, Getting Together, Romantic Comedy, Comedy of Errors, Misunderstandings, the title makes it sound like a cancer story, it's not a cancer story)

International Baby by AceBij (E, 21k, WangXian, Modern AU, Pilot!LWJ, CFO!LWJ, Regional Manager!WWX, CEO!LXC, CEO!JC, CFO!JYL, Secretary!WQ, Meet-Cute, baby!A-Yuan, baby!JL Mpreg, Anal Sex, Oral Sex, Carrier!WWX, Angst and Fluff and Smut, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Mild Hurt/Comfort, WWX's canonical breeding kink, LWJ's Canonical Breed WWX Kink, Communication, Implied/Referenced Sexual Harassment, It's only at the start and will not go into much detail, Love confessions)

Deep Dive by MimiSpearmint (E, 24k, WangXian, Modern AU, Twin Prides of Yunmeng Feels, Are Bad at Communicating, LWJ is a Panicked Gay, Therapy, Fluff and Humor, Getting Together, Angst with a Happy Ending, Career Ending Injuries, counsellor!lwj, give lwj friends agenda, background NieLan, Melbourne, Eventual Smut, Crack, Baby JL, domestic abuse is discussed but does not happen, Baby LSZ, Baby LJY, Anal Sex, Blow Jobs, Good Sex Practices, Implied Slight D/s, WangXian Have a Breeding Kink, Cameos by various minor characters)

Breathless by tiptoe39 (E, 69k, WangXian, Fashion & Models, Modeling, Getting Together, drunk lwj, Cranky LWJ, Model!LWJ, stylist!wwx, Happy Ending, WangXian Endgame, Angst with a Happy Ending, Fluff and Angst and then fluff again, Mustache-Twirling Villainy Just Off Camera, JYL Deals With So Much Brother Shit, LWJ Is Working Through His Own Shit, WWX is WWX, LWJ's Bunny Obsession, MianMian Is In Charge of Shoes, JC's Issues Have Issues)

不屈从于天 | not submitting to fate by starborst (E, 20k, WIP, WangXian, BAMF WWX, God!wwx, dream of red tower, Chinese Mythology & Folklore, but loosely based, there's a lot of oc characters & gods, Character Death, time skip, from when wwx was dead and also a god, lots of landscape description, it'll be really really slow paced) Technically it's god!WWX meeting reincarnated!LWJ bit if it's just about their relationship then this might fit! LWJ shows up at the end of chapter 3 and chapter 4 is basically just about their interactions in different situations. Might also fit for #10, seeing as LWJ is a reincarnation (I asked to make sure)

We Meet at the Thousandth Step by Admiranda, Rynne (T, 316k, WangXian, CSSR/WCZ, Canon Divergence, No Sunshot Campaign, CSSR & WCZ Live, Rogue Cultivator WWX, Different First Meeting, Night Hunts, Genius WWX, Inventor WWX, Plot, Romance, Drama, Fluff, Strangers to married, Unresolved Sexual Tension, Unresolved Romantic Tension, Everyone Lives, Developing Relationship, Minor Violence, Case Fic, Mystery, Flirting, WWX's Canon-Typical Flower Flirting, Arson, There Was Only One Bed, Getting Together, First Kiss, Meeting the Parents, Resolved Sexual Tension, Resolved Romantic Tension, WWX Is a Good Big Brother, New Relationship Bliss, Chinese Mythology & Folklore, Blood and Injury, Yiling siblings, Married WangXian, Honeymoon, Wangxian's Baby Fever) I can't remember how old Wei Ying & Lan Zhan are in We Meet at the Thousandth Step but I'm quite certain they're at least in their mid- to late-20s when they meet.

~*~

8. itmf a wangxian fic where Jin Guangyao is forced to apologize to Lan Xichen for tricking into helping with Nie Mingjue's murder. Preferably a fic where wangxian comfort him afterwards. Any lxc ship is OK (xicheng, nielan, xiyao), I just want Lan Xichen to get a proper apology and for jgy to acknowledge how truly messed up it was and accept responsibility for being an asshole to poor lxc (and nmj tbh)

~*~

9. Hello! For your next ITMF, could you find me some baby trapping fics please? Whether LWJ traps WWX or WWX traps him 🤗

(and I'd love you forever if you manage to find a fic where Lan Qiren think Wwx is baby trapping his precious cabbage and either it's all Part of LWJ's Plan or the baby was a mutual decision from the both of them)

Thank you!!

truly a love story for the ages by sweetlolixo (E, 4k, WangXian, Modern AU, Dark LWJ, Dark WWX, Alpha LWJ, Omega WWX, Dark!Wangxian, Power Couple, Happy Wangxian Ending, slight daddy kink, Humor, Crack, Pregnant WWX) Of course I gotta rec the mutual baby trapping fic

~*~

10. Do you have a comp fic of reincarnation? If not can you make this for next ITMF? (No comp as of yet though it is on the list! ~Mod L)

不屈从于天 | not submitting to fate by starborst (E, 20k, WIP, WangXian, BAMF WWX, God!wwx, dream of red tower, Chinese Mythology & Folklore, but loosely based, there's a lot of oc characters & gods, Character Death, time skip, from when wwx was dead and also a god, lots of landscape description, it'll be really really slow paced) (link in #7) Technically it's god!WWX meeting reincarnated!LWJ bit if it's just about their relationship then this might fit! LWJ shows up at the end of chapter 3 and chapter 4 is basically just about their interactions in different situations.

the recluse at the end of the moonlit path by beesinspades (T, 28k, WangXian, Modern AU, Reincarnation, Post-Canon, Jack of All Trades Artist WWX, Immortal! LWJ, Mutual Pining, Light Angst, Reunions, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Implied Sexual Content, Asexual Character, good vibes, [Podfic] the recluse at the end of the moonlit path by b_ofdale by Beria1021)

🧡 We Were Never Strangers by NeverEnoughWangxian (M, 36k, WangXian, Modern AU, Reincarnation, Modern Cultivators, POV WWX, (mostly), College Student WWX, Rogue Cultivator WWX, Immortal LWJ, Immortal LSZ, Dreams, Pining, Sharing a Bed, brief mentions of wwx's past death(s), WangXian.mp3, Getting Together, I guess getting back together technically, Happy Ending, Sexual Tension, Sexual Content)

🧡 All Old Things are New Again by The Feels Whale (miscellea) (M, 51k, WangXian, Reincarnation, Modern AU, canon still happened, extreme post canon, Sugar Daddy, Kink Negotiation, gentle dom!LWJ, canonical levels of consent play, Modern Cultivators, cultivators can recognize important people from previous lives, vaguely, this started out as a cute sugar fantasy and got just incredibly horny very fast, blame LWJ)

忘不了你的爱 (can't forget your love) by PorcupineGirl (G, 25k, WangXian, Time Travel, Modern with Magic, Modern Cultivators AU, Canon Divergence, Time Traveler WWX, discussion of canonical character deaths, a whole lot of handwaving, conveniently localized fires, Discussion of Canonical Suicide Attempt, mostly happy but slightly bittersweet ending)

Closer Than Eternity by Netrixie (T, 26k, WangXian, Modern AU, Reincarnation, an unhealthy addiction to starbucks, Immortals, cultivation is -kinda- commonplace, Self-Doubt, POV Alternating, Minor Original Character(s), Canon Compliant, Post-Canon, Temporary Character Death, Angst with a Happy Ending, not for jc fans, This is not a reconciliation fic)

Have We Met Before by thelastdboy (T, 7k, WangXian, POV WWX, Modern: No Powers, First Meetings, College/University, Reincarnation, Strangers to Lovers, Slow Burn, Getting Together, Developing Relationship, Love Confessions, First Kiss, CSSR and WCZ Live, WWX Has a Family, Older Sibling WWX, Queer Themes, Demisexual WWX, Parent-Child Relationship, Friendship, Heteronormativity, Pining WWX, Fluff, Madam Lan Lives)

living in my memory/living in my mouth by tardigradeschool (T, 32k, WangXian, Reincarnation, Canon Divergence, College/University, Modern with Magic, Hurt/Comfort, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Sharing a Bed, Nightmares, Light Angst, Epistolary, (sort of), POV Alternating, Mutual Pining, Friends to Lovers)

~*~

11. hi everyone! I am looking for modern cultivation aus where, this may sound redundant but ya know, cultivation is used in tandem with modern living. For example, I really liked in “The Shade of Old Trees” by Kryal how WWX used his cultivation to do sick tricks on a skateboard. Or in "Truth Will Out" by KizuKatana how the night hunts were filmed and uploaded to an internet forum. So yeah! Cultivation working with modern things, cool magic in tandem with modern science and tech. thanks tlm!!

speeding up my heartbeat by plonk (Not Rated, 24k, WangXian, Modern with Magic, Gyms) has cultivation specific gyms and sports, with WWX doing cultivator level parkour

🧡🔒Night of the Living History (an edutainment special!) by Aerlalaith (T, 51k, WangXian, Modern with Magic, Workplace Relationship, Fluff and Humor, Museums, living history, Some Plot, Slice of Life, Injury, a minor haunting) has cultivation working (or not, as the case may be!) alongside modern tech

A Different Yarn by donutsweeper (T, 1k, WangXian, Urban Fantasy, Yarn store AU, Modern with Magic, Modern Cultivation) it's really short but in it knitting and crochet is used for talismans

Hear a song this deeply by so_shhy (T, 87k, wangxian, modern cultivation, academia au, music, kid fic, action/adventure, canon-typical violence, canon-typical JGY behavior, slow burn, fluff & angst, happy ending) has modern cultivation history researcher LZ and municipal cultivation employee WWX working within (or not, on occasion!) modern day cultivation rules, laws, and customs

and so my heart beats wildly by lily_winterwood (E, 106k, WangXian, JYL/JZX, Modern Cultivation, Rivalry, Competition, Competition-Set Fic, Athletes, Multimedia, Miscommunication, frenemies to lovers, Rivals to Lovers, Slow Burn, Mutual Pining, Seemingly One-sided But Actually Mutual Pining, Oblivious WWX, Competitive Cultivation, Anal Sex, First Time, Angst with a Happy Ending, Olympics, Inappropriate use of an Olympic gold medal, Breathplay, Rough Sex, Food Porn, Tanabata, Lily's back on her Qixi bullshit, Switching, Bottom LWJ) has cultivation Olympics

~*~

12. Hi all! Im in the mood for Jiang yanli bashing! I want her to also be angry and entitled like Jiang Cheng and then get, well, bashed for it!

Dispersing Clouds by dreamingofcake (E, 283k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Genius WWX, Inventor WWX, Not Jiang Family Friendly, Abusive YZY, Canonical Child Abuse, Hurt/Comfort, Slow Burn, Eventual Sex, Implied/Referenced Self-Harm (Background Character), Background Character Deaths, child deaths, Canon JC, Good Uncle LQR, Accidental Baby Acquisition, Cultivation Sect Politics, Homophobia, Heteronormativity, Feelings Realization, WWX is Not Oblivious) I wouldn't say she's angry, but she very much expects WWX to be a doormat for the sake of keeping things how she is used to them being

Hua Xianle by Tiffany_Guinne (Not rated, 260k, hualian, wangxian, TGCF, canon divergence, not Jiang friendly, madam lan lives, WWX adopted by hualian, WWX with different name, overprotective hualian, hurt WWX, WIP) crossover with TGCF, Hualian raises WWX, plenty of Jiang bashing all around

~*~

13. for the in the mood for, may i have your most gutwrenching jiang cheng & wei wuxian sibling hurt/comfort please. preferably with reconciliation. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

ransom by alessandriana (G, 3k, JC & WWX, Hurt/Comfort, Dizziness, Fainting, Character is Injured while Protecting Another, Yunmeng Shuangjie, Yunmeng reconciliation, [PODFIC] ransom by Gwogobo)

love lies beyond words by acrosticacrumpet (G, 4k, JC & WWX, Post-Canon, Whump, Angst, Hurt/Comfort, canon-typical dysfunctional relationships, Yunmeng Shuangjie Reconciliation, not a completed reconciliation but the beginning of one, Twin Prides of Yunmeng Feels, Self-Worth Issues, WWX's notoriously poor self-worth vs JC's legendary rejection sensitivity: FIGHT, painful conversations with a tasteful smidgeon of, Cuddling & Snuggling)

we’re starting at the end by Miss_Enthusiasimal (M, 92k, WangXian, JC & WWX, Time Travel, Canon Divergence, Implied/Referenced Suicide, Golden Core Reveal, Burial Mounds, Hurt/Comfort, Angst, Starvation, emaciation, Cannibalism, Self-Harm, Amputation, Suicidal Thoughts, Sunshot Campaign, let JZX and WWX be friends club)

JC and WWX's Get Along Sweater series by newamsterdam (T, 29k, JC & WWX, Trapped In A Closet, Cultivation as Plot Device, Reconciliation, Miscommunication, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Panic Attacks, Unresolved Emotional Tension, Novel Spoilers, Post-Canon, Canon-Typical Violence, Night Hunting, Ghosts, Action/Adventure, Brotherly Love, Complicated Relationships, Yunmeng Shuangjie)

In The Dark Right Now by phnelt (T, 10k, WangXian, graphic depictions of injuries, trapped in a cave, Near Death Experience, fatalistic thinking, established wangxian, Family Feels, mention of unnamed illness of an offscreen character, Nobody dies in this fic, Alternate Universe - Modern AU, jc and wwx are caved in and lan zhan talks to them through the radio, Hurt/Comfort) if modern AU is acceptable

~*~

14. For the next itmf, can you please recommend to me some fics where Jiang Cheng raises both Jin Ling and Wen Yuan . Preferably where both or at least A-yuan knows his father is Wei Wuxian

What Remains After the War by Swan_Song (T, 44k, JC & JL, JC & LSZ, JL & LSZ, WIP, Canon Divergence, LSZ is a Jiang, Good Uncle JC, Cousins JL & LSZ, JC Needs a Hug, JC Needs Therapy, The juniors solve a mystery, Junior Ensemble Shenanigans, Good Uncle LQR, he tries his best, LSZ Needs a Hug)

~*~

15. itmf fics where instead of lan xichen, lan wangji becomes sect leader/king/emperor/etc. With happy ending for wangxian! Any length and rating works and if there's smut, can I get top plan wangji please? And nothing where lan wangji is with someone else romantically/sexually even for a bit in the course of the fic I don't have any other triggers/squicks!

The Wrong Man by Remma3760 (Not Rated, 103k, WangXian, WIP, Sect Leader LWJ, Evil JGS, Canon Divergence, Golden Core Reveal) Not exactly LWJ becoming sect leader *instead of* LXC, but does have LXC getting killed off in chapter 1, & LWJ becoming sect leader & instituting sweeping reforms. Still a WIP but the main story is over & is a happy ending (WWX is actually alive in this, so no having to wait for resurrection)

I Am Happy I Met You by Bhargavee00 (Not Rated, 34k, WIP, WangXian, Get a Happy Ending, Sect Leader LWJ, Chief Cultivator LWJ, Dragon LWJ, Top LWJ/Bottom WWX, Madam Lan Lives, Minor Madam Lan/Qingheng-jun, Qingheng-jun, Lives, Dark LWJ, Protective LWJ, Protective Gusu Lan Sect, Protective LXC, Protective LQR, Good Uncle LQR, WangXian Are Soulmates, WWX Goes to Gusu, Yunmeng Jiang Sect Bashing, Jiang Family Bashing, LWJ is So Whipped, Older LWJ, Good Older Sibling LXC, Sunshot Campaign, No Golden Core Transfer, WWX is a Lan, WWX is So Whipped)

The Straightest Path by meyari (T, 30k, WangXian, NieLan, MingLi, ChengSang, war and death, Grief/Mourning, Politics, plotting for neuroatypicals, Autistic LWJ, WWX Has ADHD, Non-Canon Relationship, No Yīn Iron, Sect Leader LWJ) LXC and LQR die leaving Lan Zhan to becoming Sect Leader

🧡 Discarded by teawater (E, 260k, WIP, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Dying Lan children, Hurt/Comfort, YL WWX, Golden Core Reveal, Case Fic, Depression, Family Issues, Self-Esteem Issues, Self Confidence Issues, Self-Worth Issues, Angst with a Happy Ending, and it's not always dark, POV Multiple, BAMF WWX, dubious morals in the Lan sect Feels, Pining, Grief, Fix-It, BAMF LWJ)

golden when the day met the night by glitteringmoonlight (Not rated, 95k, slow burn, sugar daddy LWJ, light, angst, fluff, developing relationship, eventual smut, WIP)

Temptation by Karmiya (E, 23k, WangXian, JYL & WWX, WIP, Sect Leader LWJ, domestic abuse) LXC dies after the Sunshot Campaign and LZ becomes Sect Leader

~*~

16. Hii!! does this count as an itmf? if anyone knows a fic where LZ gets married or bethroted during the thirteen years but then WY comes back anything like that ?? if it doesnt it definitely should ill take anything similar tho @yesibest

patching the road with vague intentions by loosingletters (T, 39k, WIP, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Humor, Developing Friendships, WWX Resurrected By Others, Trans WWX, Case Fic, POV WWX, POV LQR, Family, Good Uncle LQR, Hurt/Comfort, Golden Core Reveal, Slow Burn, Canon-Typical Violence, MXY Lives) To be fair, LWJs wife is the one who summons WWX into her body so it might not fully fit

Love Song In Reverse by timetoboldlygo (T, 237k, WangXian, Amnesia, Canon Divergence, Angst with a Happy Ending, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Non-Sexual Intimacy, Falling In Love, Slow Burn, agressively mixing and matching novel and cql canon, No Homophobia, Mentions of Starvation, Parental WWX) For 16, if what you're looking for is wangxian struggle with their feelings for each other post ressurection while lwj is already commited to someone else, you might like Love Song in Reverse where WY comes back but without his memories so he believes he's MXY and he and LZ navigate their feelings while LZ is still commited to his feelings for WY.

~*~

17. for the next itmf what about a fic from when lwj and jc are searching for wwx when he was in the burial mounds

in our respective ways by Lise (T, 5k, JC & WWX, JC & LWJ, Missing Scene, Bonding, (sort of??), POV JC, Canon Compliant, that brief period of time when lwj and jc were solidly on the same page, JC's jealousy could be a third character, Twin Prides of Yunmeng Feels, Brothers, Canon Era, Not Friends to Still Not Friends, canon typical abuse of pows)

waiting, shivering by kornevable (T, 2k, JC & WWX, Introspection, Missing Scene, background wangxian)

~*~

If you didn’t get an answer to your ask here, don’t forget to make use of @mdzs-kinkmeme and MDZS KINK MEME on Dreamwidth. Authors actually do use them for ideas. You may get what you order!***Your prompt doesn’t have to be kink! Fluff, crack, whatever - it’s all good!***

#wangxian #mdzs #wangxian fic recs #i'm in the mood for a fic #the untamed #wangxian fic search #wangxianficfinder #long post

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nauticaltrain · 10 months ago

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hits you with the napier beam hits you with the napier beam hits you with the napier beam hits you with the napier beam

(headcanons under the cut)

Porter:

Open-top hopper, carries anything, he's not fussy

laidback, observant, leader

big and tall, and i mean big and tall

the most mature, but ultimately a goofball at heart

not afraid to chew out the other freight, hasn't given up on Slick's redemption arc yet

just a good dude

likes showtunes and dad jokes

has a crush on Lumber

Lumber:

Centerbeam flatcar, transports packaged lumber

friendly, intelligent, big-hearted

real environmentalist type, supports sustainability as much as is possible

he and Hydra are besties, they have a surprising amount in common

absolutely oblivious to Porter's crush, just thinks they're friends

could probably survive in the wild

has to be herded back onto the tracks regularly, he gets distracted by flora and fauna very easily, petted a deer once and wouldn't stop talking about it for a week

gets along well with gardeners, lumberjacks, park rangers, and naturalists

Slick:

DOT-111 tank car, can carry anything that doesn't require pressurization, but mostly transports crude oil

vindictive, audacious, manipulative

short and compact little tanker

a real pain to be around, punky and vain

terrible, bitter animosity between her and Hydra, not even the silly sibling rivalry kind, they hate each other

unlike CB who crashes trains because he's cracked, Slick is 100% sane. she does it for money. she would be lying if she said she didn't feel bad at all, there's some remorse buried deep down

you know that saying 'hurt people hurt people'? yeah that

weirdly quick skater, like she moves a little too fast for a car

accessories bitch

Hydra:

DOT-113 tank car, pressurized cryogenic materials only. Liquid hydrogen is his specialty, naturally

confident, mysterious, opportunistic

long and lean, can almost look Porter in the eyes

very proud of his status, loves that he carries such high-profile materials

as for his rivalry with Slick, he thinks she's reckless and she thinks he's uppity. Many nasty arguments

not sure how his friendship with Lumber came about, but is happy about it nonetheless

futurist, believes the advancement of science will benefit society exponentially

will rant about clean energy whenever he can, annoys the rest of the yard with it constantly, a bit of a braggart

got that slinky kapa kitchen energy

(group image not to scale, just wanted them together :))

#i like these characters a lot more when they have discernible personalities and designs (:#maybe femme greaseball next? 👀#starlight express #stex #starex #stex revival #porter the coal truck #slick the oil tanker #hydra the hydrogen tanker #lumber the wood truck #fanart #from the cab

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lol-jackles · 4 months ago

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I know you’ve been super busy lately, but did you see any of Jared’s first episode on Fire Country? What did you think? I enjoyed the character :) Does all the hype and articles about it make a spin off more likely?

Yup, and Jared successfully pulled off another distinguishable character from his previous characters. Camden is a man looking for trouble and we find out why. He's the sole survivor of a crew that was doomed because he didn't follow his instinct and instead followed bureaucracy. That's heavy survivor guilt. He wants to find trouble to either distract himself or punish himself or both. He thinks his redemption lies in creating elite firefighters immune to distractions from conflicted leaders, doubting family and friends, and ridiculous bureaucrats. Then we find out that Camden's younger brother was among the doomed crew, culminating to Camden accidentally calling Bode by his late brother's name. Heavy survivor guilt just got unbearable weight, as seen in Jared's last episode when Camden is confronted by Bode over his unresolved issues festering in open wounds. Jared displayed Camden's deep emotional wounds in his eyes filled with vulnerable humility.

Camden is an unpredictable man who runs towards danger, but he's not reckless, especially when it comes to the safety of his cadets. He's definitely being set up for his own series given how unfinished his character and his arc is. That and Jared's leading man presence that nearly overshadowed the cast. He reminds me a bit of when movie stars guest star on popular tv shows, the skill level gap is obvious and shows why the guests are movie stars and the regulars are tv stars. I'm not saying Jared is a movie star material, just that he's leading man material because it's in his blood now.

#Jared Padalecki #fire country

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raineda-shipper · 4 months ago

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Lesbingqiu

@waitineedaname 's amazing butch Binghe post has convinced me that Binghe deserves to offer her coat to a blushing Yuan-jie.

Shen Yuan is being a normal straight friend! She's just worried that poor Binghe will get objectified, taking off her badass coat like that, revealing those weapons of mass distraction under only a thin cotton shirt, clinging to her form...

Binghe's thought process behind picking that outfit was: "Hmm, Yuan-jie seems to like the 'Draco in leather pants' type of character. I can be that for her! Let's try dressing like a suave videogame villain ready for a redemption arc🤔"

As for Shen Yuan, I'm imagining her style (when she goes outside) would be to strive for a ~normal girl~ look, so, cardigans and long skirts, aiming for "granny" but maybe accidentally ending up in "sexy librarian" territory.

She likes Binghe's feminism earring.

#lesbingqiu #svsss #luo binghe #shen yuan #bingqiu #my art

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gemgdynamight0 · 4 months ago

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The whole "bkg dropped in ranking because of bad attitude" does not make any sense. Is hori questioning his own writing? 430 chapters of development and he's suddenly treating him like how he was in the sport festival. What was the point of all the development? Literal arcs of his internship and remedial course learning to be better towards public and everyone. Idk man if my character still needs best jeanist to tell him how to behave like in s4, then I have failed his writing. A character that is obviously set to have a redemption arc, gets a perfect one, but doesn't get any conclusion on it because of one last chapter. But I guess gag scenes and hahaha is better than a proper conclusion.

Also the example he brings up as "bad attitude" is unbelievable. He's scuffed up and is obviously fighting a villain. A dumb civilian gets in his face trying to take a Pic... In the middle of a fight with Katsuki using his dangerous quirk.... Is the society that stupid to get offended by that yell? I'm not even gonna mention how much hori is pushing "society has become better" but ppl are still treating heros like celebrities lol. Adding to all this, even if he wasn't fighting a villain, the person still didn't respect his boundaries and he had every right to tell them off.

Epilogue is written in a way you may think he's trying to sabotage him to make other characters look cool lol

And if I want to talk about how his goals were ignored and demolished and how he doesn't even have a conclusion I need to make multiple posts lol there are so many things about him in that chapter that doesn't make any sense. This is why I can't accept anything from it.

He gave him a car and good look to distract his fans from his writing lol

#If Katsuki isn't your most favorite character and you haven't focused on his writing for years pls don't insert your opinion on this matter #Because I've seen ppl are saying he has a car and 2 friends and a job he has a good ending #we're not talking about Jason from my regular academia we're talking about the deturgenoist from a super hero show #Where he repeats his goals millions of times during the show #And all of them are nowhere to be seen at the end #Bakugou Katsuki #Katsuki Bakugou #Mha #Bnha #my hero academia #Kacchan #Katsuki #Bakugo Katsuki #Katsuki Bakugo

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mareastrorum · 4 months ago

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As a known villain-enthusiast, I figured I’d write up how I assess them as storytelling devices. Like, whether they’re enjoyable characters is up to taste, but whether they’re good writing requires critical assessment. This is a rather long post, so here is a summary:

Learning how to critique villains is a great way to identify skilled and passionate storytellers. They embody the ideas and decisions that the writer feels are incorrect. While some narrative devices are more subtle (local politics unfolding in the background, color or song cues, scene settings, etc.), villains are dramatic. That is a person designed to be wrong! They intentionally draw the audience’s focus for important steps of the story. When a writer stumbles on that, it reflects poorly on the entire work precisely because of that focus.

This post is going to get into the following key components of an effective villain:

They highlight the wrong conclusion about a key issue in the story.

They should be a symptom of either a larger issue in the narrative or the one they fixate on.

They don't need to be evil, and, in many cases, that label is a hindrance.

As the average age of the target audience and/or the length of the story increases, villains should be more frequently correct in their beliefs and choices.

They evoke strong emotion appropriate to the genre.

They don’t need to be antagonists, and antagonists don’t need to be villains.

They raise the stakes: the world will become worse if they are left unchecked.

Their strengths and weaknesses should be directly tied either to the central theme of the story or their opponent's character arc.

Their ending is consistent with the theme of the story.

If included, a villain redemption arc must have 4 components: (1) an external stimulus causing (2) a choice to deviate from their plan and (3) a corresponding shift in their worldview, and those result in (4) action that matches the strength of their new conviction.

They should not be included in a story if any of the above causes distraction or discordance with the main plot line.

Of course, there’s spoilers to follow, so reader beware.

First, some definitions. These are definitely not perfect, but they're how I keep these narrative issues separated in my own head.

A villain is someone whose wrong actions/beliefs are relevant to the plot/themes. An antagonist is someone who acts in direct conflict with the protagonist. The protagonist is the character that the audience follows in a story. Sometimes villains are protagonists, sometimes they're antagonists, and sometimes they're neither. This post addresses villains regardless of their other roles in a story.

I am intentionally using a vague word like “wrong” in that definition because villains are versatile tools. What is the core message or theme of this story? What is the wrong conclusion? What did the villain get right before they fucked up? At what point did this take a downturn? Can this be fixed before it’s too late? How can it be fixed? A well-designed villain can be used to answer most, if not all, of those questions without any reference to another character. When a villain is included in the story, each of the topics below is a point where the writer should be using that character to bolster the narrative.

Villains highlight the wrong conclusion about a key issue in the story.

The point of a villain is to be a bad example. A job well done requires the author to have a thorough, intimate understanding of the themes, plot, and other characters, and then showcase each of them through that villain.

In other words, the villain cannot be conceived before the protagonist's arc is decided. The author needs to have a plan for the protagonist's character arc and plot because that is going to be the audience's focus for the entire story, and the villain is meant to emphasize a key problem for that character. Even when the villain is the protagonist, their purpose as the protagonist must be determined first before any villainous aspects should be addressed.

That said, villains should be minimized or omitted for any issue that doesn't culminate in a climax. Villains are dramatic: once outed as a villain, the audience will watch everything they do. That level of focus is difficult to match with other narrative devices, so the optimal use is to direct it at key issues. For other topics, antagonists are a better fit (discussed further below). If the writer does not intend to address some core aspect of the story or worldbuilding, then it shouldn't significantly involve the villain.

A poorly done villain often reveals how the author failed to grasp something, either as a concept or in execution. Again, by definition, a villain is someone the author disagrees with. People are usually much better at making themselves and their own opinions look good than they are at portraying people with opposing viewpoints. A skilled storyteller commits to giving villains a good faith dissection rather than merely attacking a strawman.

Of course, more complex stories may warrant the use of minor villains, an ensemble, or a Big Bad Evil Guy standing above the rest. The depth and time spent on each villain should match their overall importance to the main storyline. Perhaps a lesser villain will feature in a particular episode/chapter addressing their connected theme, but they shouldn’t be emphasized by the writer outside of that relevance.

Villains should be a symptom of either a larger issue in the narrative or the one they fixate on.

This is one of the more common flaws that I've encountered. Most villains believe they are solving a problem. A lot of stories fall short of answering, "what is a better conclusion?"

Caveat: this isn’t necessary for all genres. Genres that rely on gaps in understanding don’t need to supply answers. Comedy, horror, short fiction, and any other story focusing entirely on a plot about “stuff went wrong” don’t necessarily benefit from telling the audience what the problem is. Eldritch horror stories, for example, are specifically about encounters that the characters and audience do not understand, but they may still feature villains.

This facet is more noticeable in stories about problems that affect large populations. Whether it's a social heirarchy, a government structure, a natural disaster, resource shortages, etc., it's something that requires more than removing villains from seats of power or ending a plan. The nature of the solution will vary widely, especially across genres, but the writer should be concerned with the exact thing the villain had been.

As an example, in a lot of contemporary stories involving revolutions by lower classes against an oppressive upper class, the key conflict of the story is that the revolutionaries have resorted to an unconscionable option for the sake of success. Whether it's genocide, biological warfare, nuclear escalation, etc., the climax is about stopping a villain from successfully employing that option. However, a solid number of those stories end with the status quo or with minor concessions by the upper class. Each of those is a problem. If they stuck with the status quo, the story is that the oppressed should accept their station, even without hope or promise of improvement. If there were minor concessions, then the message is that drastic threats of violence are necessary for even the smallest concessions. Neither of those is a very satisfying story, and in most cases, neither were the writer's intended takeaway. Unfortunately, that sort of message often gets baked in because the unspoken implication of “don’t resort to these tactics” is “accept your place”—unless an alternative is presented within the story.

Of course, the challenge for these sorts of stories is how to convey a better option without getting on a soapbox in the narration. Villains are an efficient option to challenge the protagonists (or their opponents if they're protagonists) on these issues. “If you're so determined to stop me, then what are you going to do about [XYZ]?” It's a great way to weave in the author's intended message through some exposition or by seeding internal conflict for the protagonist to grapple with after the two separate again. This can even be brought up by other characters in discussions about the villain, without requiring a direct confrontation. Whether the opposition achieves that goal isn’t necessary either; it’s enough to introduce it and start the path toward it, letting the implication become “that’s not happening yet because that would be the next story.”

While stories don’t need to answer every question, ignoring the villain’s concern conveys that the writer doesn’t care about that issue. In that case, why include it as the villain’s motivation? What benefit did that complication bring to the story? Useless or unintended elements should be cut from a story to avoid muddling the themes, and failure to do that with a villain demonstrates subpar storytelling.

Villains don't need to be evil, and, in many cases, that label is a hindrance.

Evil is a moral label. Some stories aren’t concerned with addressing how to be a good person, what should happen to bad people, etc. That is certainly a most common framing for a villain in Western media, but it’s not the only one. Stories don't need to convey a moral to be great.

Sometimes the villain cares deeply for others, is motivated by saving people and doing good, and checks all the boxes for a hero, but the means they resort to are absolutely fucked up. Their arc often involves realizing a terrible act is “necessary” to achieve their desired result, and because they believe that result is worth the travesties, they commit. The audience can debate whether that means the villain is good or evil, but that is beside the point; the problem is that they’re doing something they shouldn’t, regardless of the moral label attached to it. Stories like this often include a message that there aren’t good/bad people, only good/bad acts, which also means that people cannot attain a moral label, and therefore the villain cannot be evil. (The Dune novels are a fantastic example of this.)

Sometimes the villain is someone dedicated to a cause that has long since careened into villainy. Their personal morality doesn’t match with what they do because duty or honor requires them to act this way, and to forsake that obligation is also failure. No matter what they choose, they will be trampling their moral ideals. Pretty much any story about well-meaning military, police, government, or other duty-bound characters following a chain of command after the bad guy takes control is an example of this. Some stories focus on the interpersonal conflict arising out of that, and others stories might focus on the internal cognitive dissonance and psychological fallout of such circumstances. These stories often posit that there is no such thing as pure good, and since everyone must commit evil on some level in the course of pursuing a moral standard, we cannot assess anyone (including the villain) on morality alone. These also tend to be stories that include a redemption arc (discussed below), though they very frequently involve some sort of dramatic sacrifice in the process.

Other stories ignore morality entirely because it just isn’t the point. These villains tend to be more subtle because their presence isn’t as offensive to the audience. Bureaucrats ruthlessly enforcing the rules in spite of unique circumstances, then getting overruled by a superior after a big display by the protagonist, are a fairly common villain trope in media aimed at children and young adults. It does happen in media for adults as well, though most often in comedies (My Cousin Vinny, Ghostbusters) or legal/political/professional dramas. These stories usually criticize overzealous commitment to systems, not because the systems or villains are inherently evil, but because excessive enforcement can unhelpfully inhibit good, health, fun, freedom, etc.

Villains can absolutely be moral/good/neutral people in the author’s perspective, framed as such in a story, and still be the bad guys.

As the average age of the target audience and/or the length of the story increases, villains should be more frequently correct in their beliefs and choices.

This is such a frustrating thing when writers muck it up. As stated, villainy highlights a wrong conclusion. Do you know what would ruin that effect? If they’re wrong about everything.

The thing about highlighting is that it’s only useful when done sparingly or with clear methods of differentiation. Highlighting a single line with one color or multiple lines with different colors can each be effective methods of focusing attention, but highlighting an entire page is a waste of effort. The audience doesn’t know what to look at anymore. The purpose is lost when it's overdone.

So too with a villain. A well-constructed villain needs to get some things right. That is a signal that those aren't the parts the audience should be concerned with. That works both for focusing on themes (if indeed that side issue isn’t important) or as obfuscation for a reveal later on (related to plot, motive, identity, etc.). This wealthy villain pays his taxes without complaint, donates to charity, and tips generously, so the story message isn’t about whether businessmen pay their fair share to government, give back to the people generally, or pays people for their labor. Instead, when the businessman turns out to be a financier of a warlord plotting a coup, we can ignore the question, “should the wealthy use money to help people?” and instead focus on “the harm of using wealth to enable oppression far outweighs any generosity that coincides with it.”

In most media, I prefer main villains to be correct on so many things that, at some point in the story, they would have been capable of swaying me to their position if not for a key theme. That is the gold standard because it points the audience right at the villain’s narrative purpose and explains why no one has managed to stop the villain before this plot line. After all, if a person is tolerable, useful, or personable except for this one thing, then they are likely to have many allies and defenses to prevent anyone from stopping their plans. While not every villain needs that level of honing, it is vital that the villain associated closely to the main theme is the one with the most clarity.

When a villain is wrong about most things, that clarity is lost. That extremism is only expected in children’s fiction, comedy, and short form fiction because those genres usually don’t explore any other facets of the villain anyway—the audience rarely gets a comprehensive look at that character. A villain is a portrayal of a person, and people are complex. Any longer forms of media require more time spent with the villain, and a two-dimensional character doesn't hold up well in those circumstances. When an author decides to structure a villain who is incorrect at every step of a story, there is meaning there: this villain is intended as an extreme example of everything the author dislikes. This story is intended to be propaganda.

Propaganda invites heavier criticism: What ethnicity did the author choose for this representation of someone getting everything wrong? What gender? What sexuality? What nationality? Social or economic class? Level of education? How does that compare to their opposition? If there’s someone who does everything right, what differences are there between that one and the villain? Those choices are just as intentional as the decision to frame the villain as so egregiously wrong about everything. Writers don’t get to pretend such decisions are meaningless. More often than not, when this happens, the writer's bigoted views are put on display. The villain absolutely did its job, so it's not an ineffective villain: it told me what the writer disapproves of and that the theme of the story is that type of person is inferior. It just turns out that now I have an entirely separate reason to dislike this writer and their works.

Villains evoke strong emotion appropriate to the genre.

I expect that most discussions about villains will include something about making that character entertaining or fun, but that isn’t quite the right mark. A proper villain is evocative in a way that matches the genre. There’s a lot of flexibility in this, so entertainment value is a safe bet. Some stories need a villain that raises tension in every scene, and others just need a laid back asshole to quip at the hero and be an obstacle. That said, sometimes a villain would be better if they aren’t fun.

For example, in Pan’s Labyrinth, Captain Vidal (played by a well known Spanish comedian who had never previously ventured outside of comedy) in fascist Spain confronts a potential spy who claims that he was hunting rabbits with his son. Indeed, the man was carrying a weapon and a bag of supplies, and he has a younger man with him. Until that point, the Captain had been presented as extremely strict and hierarchical in every facet of his life, even with his new wife, but not necessarily bad. In full view of the man’s son, the Captain personally kills the hunter, declares him to be a traitor to Spain, then discovers the dead rabbits in the pack and ignores that he may have been wrong. The son is taken away without apology or aid—not even the food and supplies they had been carrying. Any audience expectation of mercy is shunted out the window because fascism involves seeing common people as either resources or threats, and nothing else. It’s a brutal, terrifying way to establish Captain Vidal’s role, that this character will not be fun or comedic, and what type of story the film will entail. We know without a shadow of doubt that if Captain Vidal discovers what the child protagonist has been up to, he will kill her. He would kill that little girl without remorse for the slightest infraction against his control. An unavoidable dread surrounds Captain Vidal’s presence through every subsequent scene, even when he isn’t shown on screen. That brought the terror of fascism to a personal level in a horrifically efficient manner. Excellent use of a villain.

Because the core purpose of a villain is to highlight aspects of a story, stoking the audience’s emotion is a surefire way to guarantee everyone is paying attention. The most commonly used options are anger (unjust acts), disgust (socially unacceptable traits), and fear (unflinching violence). Regardless of which emotion it is, it should be something either unexpected or more extreme than encountered otherwise. These cues should be in contrast to the emotions evoked by positive developments. If the rest of the mood of the story is somber, inappropriate lightheartedness is an excellent contrast. If the rest of the story is tense action, an eerie calm is incredibly upsetting. There are many options for creating a discordant tone, and doing so not only emphasizes that this villain is wrong somehow, but also ensures that any dialogue or narration in that scene carries that same sense of wrongness.

Obviously, some stories involve villain reveals, so those high-intensity scenes shouldn’t occur until the right moment. In those instances, the method and circumstances of the reveal are a great vehicle to emphasize the villain’s narrative purpose, especially when done close to or during the story’s climax. That said, a shocked audience may have difficulty parsing complicated dialogue; sticking to a simple, overarching topic is a much better option for those particular circumstances. That’s why a villain monologue is such a common trope: it works.

When this sort of emotional turmoil is absent, I get the sense that the writer doesn’t know how to structure a scene to reinforce themes. This sort of narrative device isn’t necessary for every villain scene, but if only one scene in an entire story were to stoke the audience’s feelings, it should be the scene where the villain’s conclusion is front and center. Denouements and moments of triumph also obviously warrant strong emotional responses, but I prioritize the villain for a simple reason: why would anyone add a villain to a story if they weren’t going to demand the audience’s attention? If that type of scene takes away from the story’s purpose, then the villain does too, and they should be removed.

Villains don't need to be antagonists, and antagonists don’t need to be villains.

This might seem contradictory to the preceding points, but the fact is that protagonists cannot be expected to fix every problem they encounter.

Villains are supposed to reach the wrong conclusion about something core to the theme or plot. Antagonists are just people who work against the protagonist. For a lawyerly analogue, my opposing counsel is the antagonist (working against me, a plaintiff litigator) and their client is the villain (that fucker did Wrong, even if they never interact with me and haven’t done anything since). The lawyer isn’t wrong for simply being on that side; they’re doing their job, and their job is to be in my way. I’m not right for simply being on my side; I’m just the one telling the story. When assessing a villain and protagonist, we look at both characters in those conflicts. In comparison, an any conflict with a non-villain antagonist is entirely focused on the protagonist; the antagonist’s values, beliefs, etc. don’t really matter.

All that said, villains are usually antagonists. It’s a very efficient way to structure a story, so it is a preferred option for shorter or simpler narratives. That isn't a flaw. It's a completely valid way to handle these roles. Whether the villain should or shouldn't be an antagonist depends on the themes. Is a person versus person conflict necessary to resolve the problem that the villain is highlighting?

For example, if the key theme is about the catastrophic damage caused by climate change, a direct conflict with the villain could distract from that. Many disaster movies focusing on climate change feature villains that ignore or exploit it, and rather than meet their end through conflict with the protagonists, they usually end up ruining themselves. That makes sense given that climate change is a phenomenon that cannot be stopped by an individual and that it doesn't discriminate as to who is affected. There's plenty of other themes where similar story structures are more effective than the protagonist causing the villain's downfall. Those stories don't benefit from direct conflicts with the villain, but that character added to the narrative regardless.

Sometimes a character is necessary for the protagonists to have a concrete victory at a certain point in the story, but there’s no thematic conclusion yet. Villains would distract from that, but antagonists wouldn’t. For example, a middle point in the story has the culmination of a coming of age arc for a main character, but the final conflict is still on the horizon: a sports competitor has to end their growth arc by winning at regionals before shifting to the main rising action involved in going to nationals. Introducing a local rival with no significant bad qualities would allow the audience to focus on the protagonist’s growth, and the villain in the later arc doesn’t lose any presence or effect by having a predecessor.

All that said, some characters shift over time, especially in serial media. An antagonist of the week in a superhero comic might be the dastardly Big Bad villain in a special release and then back to a background problem in the next. Villains should only be used to extent that they will help the audience understand the full scope of the themes. Regardless of genre (except maybe satire/parody), the villain shouldn’t be causing problems “on screen” beyond the scope of their purpose, so unless the dramatic brawl between villain and hero adds something other than cool visuals, antagonism is just wasted time.

Villains raise the stakes: the world will be worse if they are left unchecked.

Any villain that fails to raise the stakes is an example of poor writing. Why should the audience care about a villain if there is nothing to lose should they succeed? It is a complete failure to use such a dramatic narrative device to highlight a non-problem. Even if a villain is not an antagonist, they need to be a threat.

In order to achieve that, the villain needs to have strengths necessary to achieve their goal. When villains don't have a skill or a resources necessary for their plan, there should be a relatively straightforward method for them to fill that gap. For example, a warmongering monarch might lack the manpower from her own lands to continue conquering neighbors, so she has her army conscript soldiers from annexed territories to put on the front lines. Of course, these power gaps are also excellent points for conflict with the opposition, and that can be worked into the plot. By shaping the villain into a formidable power in the world, the protagonist (or their faction, allies, etc.) has to step up and find a solution to the plot problem before the villain ruins everything. It adds time pressure to the protagonist’s goals and allows for logical opportunities to foil the villain’s plans.

When the villain is incompetent, that tension is lost. Within the story itself, of all the possible characters in this made up world, this was the one the writer focused on. Why hasn’t someone already stopped them, and why should the audience care what they’re up to? Why is the writer wasting the protagonist’s time on this character? That reflects poorly on the story because that conveys that there’s not a real a risk of failure or a bad ending; if there was, the writer should have focused on that instead! So, why include the villain at all?

Unless the story is parody, nothing is as disappointing as a story where a villain succeeds or fails because of something stupid. It can be funny, it can be an oversight or mistake or gap in knowledge, but it should never be because of stupidity. That tells me that the writer couldn’t up with something clever because they’re stupid—they used a complex narrative device without thinking it through—and they expect me (a member of the audience) to applaud. Absolutely not.

Villains' strengths and weaknesses should be directly tied either to the central theme of the story or their opponent's character arc.

Building off the last point, a villain should be competent in a narratively convenient way and have convenient weaknesses. In many story structures, a villain antagonist is a wonderfully efficient option for the protagonist hero to grapple with a key character development or plot climax. The best villains are those whose weaknesses are ones that the protagonist is capable of exploiting; it helps establish the protagonist as an appropriate perspective for this story. However, that logic needs to work both in the direction in which it was planned, and backwards from the opposite view.

First, the writer needs to choose a villain that suits the protagonist and the plot. I’ve lined out plenty of reasons for that above, but in short, the villain should be actively engaging in behavior or building to a turning point that will impact the ending that the protagonist desires. It doesn’t need to impact the protagonist directly, but there must be a clear motivation to interfere with the villain’s plan. Thus, the villain’s strengths should be relevant to the theme or opponent’s arc—it’d be a waste of opportunity otherwise.

Once the protagonist’s needs are established, the writer needs to change perspective: the villain needs to make sense within the narrative whether the protagonist does anything or not. Generally speaking, any person would prefer a plan with requirements they would not struggle to complete. People like to do things they’re good at. A mad scientist is going to prefer mad science over politics. A corrupt politician is going to prefer bribery over a ray gun. If the plot demands a particular course of action, the villain should be designed to be someone who prefers that method and is damn good at it. Even in situations where a villain is forced to resort to something they don’t excel in, there should be a logical explanation for how this arrangement came about. Failure to achieve this breaks immersion.

The difficult part of discussing this facet is that it is the most versatile aspect of villain characterization, so there aren’t any rigid requirements. I wouldn’t even go so far as to say that a villain should be a foil because that limits them to mirroring a specific character. They don’t need to be foils! Sometimes, a villain should be bigger than that: Sauron in The Lord of the Rings trilogy could be compared to numerous protagonists, but he is not a direct foil of one, while lesser villains (Denethor, Steward of Gondor) in the books are.

For a vague example, let's say I want to write a story about a slave who is leading a revolution. The obvious themes would be the necessity of violence to wrest freedom from oppressors, that legal systems are always biased in favor of those already in power, that most people will accept oppression of others for the sake of economic benefit, and so on. There are many potential villains, but the best ones would be the owner, the lawman (chief of police, sheriff, judge, etc.), and/or the head of government (mayor, governor, etc.). Regardless of which one I choose, their respective strengths (color of law, weaponry, support of the ruling class) will require the protagonist to address his own weaknesses (lack of legal authority, resources, and social capital), which gives the plot shape. Those are the parts that will be addressed in the rising action of the story. In addition, the villain's weaknesses (over-reliance on demoralized slaves, personal immorality, bigotry, cruelty, apathy, etc.) each give options for what strengths to give the protagonist. Perhaps the protagonist's unfailing courage and camaraderie stokes the other slaves' will to resist and fight back, and it becomes a story about greater numbers overcoming the villain's strengths. Another option is that the protagonist stoops just as low and has no moral or social high ground, and the point of the story is that freedom should be achieved by any means necessary by anyone willing to fight for it. Yet another option is that the protagonist makes contact with a third-party, and they cooperate to overthrow the villains, because the villains' institution of slavery could not be tolerated by anyone with an unbiased view (outsiders with no stake in it). Whichever possibility is chosen, the strengths/weaknesses of the villains put a tint on the overall message: the owner would focus the story on individuals and allow for more intimate exchanges between characters, the lawman would be more of a philosophical story with impersonal distance, and the head of government would focus on social values and how to change the will of other people. I need to choose the villain that allows me to explore my preferred protagonist arc, and I need to choose the plot line that matches well with that conflict.

But that’s a bit cerebral. A simpler example: Gaston from Beauty and the Beast. He’s sexist, only wants Belle because she’s the prettiest girl in the village, and his ego demands the best of everything. There’s literally nothing else he finds attractive about her. He’s charismatic and appeals to the toxic masculinity culture of the town. He does not value intelligence or kindness, so many potential options for getting what he wants are closed to him. In the climactic conflict, Gaston whips the town into a mob by using his charisma to deceive them, has Belle and her father imprisoned in their own home, and goes to kill the Beast so that he can claim the mantle of hero and Belle for himself. Belle uses her intelligence to improvise an escape, and her kindness spurs the Beast out of inaction after it was established that nothing else had ever swayed his heart. While there may be other things to criticize in this story, Gaston is an excellent example of making strengths and weaknesses relevant to plot, themes, and other characters. Everything he did was as bad as, if not worse than, the Beast, his conflict with Belle allowed her agency and traits to shine, and his devotion to violence and ego caused his own death rather than Belle resorting to his methods.

When that doesn't happen, it feels like a plot hole. Why hype up a villain to excel at worming his way into powerful social circles and then he never attempts to manipulate anyone in any scenes? Why make a villain so egotistical as to ignore security flaws in a key scene and then never have anyone take advantage? I’m not talking about trope subversion; I mean when a strength/weakness is added and then ignored. It's such an intrinsic part of the process for constructing a villain that failing to flesh it out demonstrates poor writing skills.

The villain’s ending is consistent with the theme of the story.

I truly do not care if villains get “what they deserve” in a story. Can it be satisfying to see villains contribute to their own failure? Yes, but they don’t deserve anything. They’re not real. Even if they were, people don’t deserve anything. You can’t earn an ending. The world doesn’t work that way, stories don’t work that way, and that line of thinking isn’t interesting. Catharsis is not about a character getting what the audience thinks they should, it’s about evoking emotional satisfaction, and limiting that assessment to whether characters get what they “deserve” is narrow-minded.

Because stories are not real, everything is on the table. The writer can do whatever they want to every single character. The most important issue is whether the outcome makes sense for what issue the villain was highlighting.

For example, if the villain is meant to be a focal point of corruption in a government structure, and the highlighted problem is that this person was tolerated by others because of the benefits they provided, deposing only that villain doesn't really fix anything. The people that let this happen are still there, and they'll find another person to do it the same way. Instead, a better resolution would be to turn that villain against their enablers, whether by threat or force or agreement. Maybe the villain is willing to testify against co-conspirators in exchange for a lenient sentence in a court of law. By definition, leniency means that the villain does not receive a fair punishment, but the problem is resolved and won't happen again. That demonstrates that the writer actually understands the issue they chose to address and that they're telling a story about a solution to a problem rather than fulfilling a base desire for punishment.

Of course, sometimes a key point of the story is wish fulfillment for punishment. The Count of Monte Cristo is probably the best revenge story ever written, with every single villain getting their comeuppance due the machinations of the wronged protagonist after returning from imprisonment and exile. Even better, the protagonist orchestrated the events so that each villain ultimately causes their own end through willful greed, ego, and cruelty. However, the key question is whether or not the protagonist is a villain too: at what point will he stop? When is it no longer justice? What about innocent bystanders? When faced with the decision whether to legally kill the only son of both his hated enemy and his former lover, Edmond Dantes finally decides to stop. This differentiates him from the villains, and the story allows the audience to determine whether to attribute it to morality, love, duty, etc. The story includes wish fulfillment because the ongoing audience consideration is “How many more times are you going to wish for this?” It felt good, it felt just, they “deserved” it, the world was better for it, but the point was that Dantes had other needs that he was ignoring by focusing solely on revenge. A core theme was that a desire for revenge is not inherently wrong—it springs from injustice and a desire for equitable results—but it isn’t the right answer to every problem. The villains’ ends fit in perfectly for the characters individually, the themes of the story, and the cultural backdrop of France before, during, and after the tumult of the Napoleonic wars.

Further, sometimes the “end” is just a pause. Many serials need the villain to remain a threat for future use, so that thread is left unresolved. This isn’t necessarily poor writing. However, those villains shouldn’t be intricately tied to a theme that requires a definitive resolution by the end of that phase. This type of arrangement requires extra planning because bringing back the villain will evoke those old themes, so either reviving the question or tying it into a new one is vital to a good story.

A proper villain redemption arc always has the same core message: people can change. It has absolutely nothing to do with earning anything because change comes from within; as soon as external approval comes into play, it’s no longer about change, it’s about relationships. The quality of a redemption arc has nothing to do with anyone other than the person being redeemed. If this type of arc doesn’t suit the story, it should not be included.

The four points listed above are necessary because they tie the villain’s arc to the plot. Why is the villain changing during this story? What does the writer believe is needed to correct course? Does the writer actually believe that people can change?

The external stimulus is necessary because of the above point that the villain should make things worse if left unchecked. That check doesn’t necessarily need to be the protagonist, an opponent, or even a character; it could be a sudden change in circumstances, like war breaking out or a new faction coming into play. Maybe the villain achieves their goal and something goes horribly wrong. Regardless of the specifics, the cause should something other than internal rumination. A villain coming to a sudden epiphany in a moment of daydreaming is too convenient, to the point that it lacks any dramatic effect. That tells me the writer doesn’t actually understand why the villain would choose this course of action in the first place. Demonstrating what would shake them out of it is not easy, but it is vital to a proper redemption arc. Something new needs to break the villain’s intentions apart.

The next two parts can happen in any order: shifting perspective first and then a choice, or choice first while ideas solidify, or both at the same time. Maybe there’s multiple steps along the way for each. Any of those can be believable.

The shift in perspective means that the villain understands that they had made the wrong choice. Whatever the new problem is, they couldn’t stop it, can’t fix it, or need something they had discarded, and the reason for that deficiency is their current course of action. The new development is undeniable proof that they were going to fail or already had failed. They don’t need to accept this psychological change immediately—the timing and fallout should match the genre—but it should happen in response to that external stimulus. In addition, even if they grapple with it as the story progresses, the villain should not fall back into old ways over minor problems. They can ruminate or even obsess over inconsequential issues, but actions should be taken only for something significant.

Once the dramatic revelation has occurred, the villain needs to have agency for how to deal with this dilemma. Maybe the story even involves the villain fighting for that agency before they exercise it, and that may happen in tandem with coming to terms with their shattered perspective. There should be at least one moment (perhaps several) where the villain has the opportunity to revert to their original plan or take a new path. That said, making such a choice under threat of death or harm isn’t very effective. Choice also requires more than one option, so I don’t find “you’re going to die anyway” circumstances to be powerful redemption arcs. They can be suitable for tragedies, but they carry the implication that villains have to face death before they will change, which is not going to mesh well with many themes absent some other redemption arcs in the same story to compare it to.

Finally, there needs to be action that matches both the villain’s new beliefs and the theme of the story, and the scale needs to be appropriately comparable to the villain’s prior intentions. Maybe the villain drains hoarded resources to support the protagonist’s gambit, emphasizing the need to collaborate with and trust in others. Maybe the villain becomes a double-agent and sabotages the corrupt empire from within, demonstrating that good is not served by people refusing to engage with an ongoing problem. Maybe the villain redesigns their ray gun to kill cancer cells, so the message is that technology is only as harmful as the people using it. Whatever they do, the villain’s redemption arc will be just as important to the audience as the protagonist’s arc. They need to make an impact worthy of that effect.

I’ll also note what I omit from this: emotion, forgiveness, and justice. Emotions are irrational, so I don’t buy into the idea that any character needs to experience a specific kind of emotion for a certain kind of arc or story to be high quality. Choices do not require emotional congruence. As for forgiveness and justice, redemption comes from within, and these two facets require input from other characters or social groups. Redemption does not need someone else’s permission or validation. While these three things can certainly add to a redemption arc—and I’m sure people have preferences—they are not necessary aspects. It is entirely possible to construct a quality redemption story without them.

Schindler’s List is essentially a villain redemption story: Oskar Schindler (the protagonist) was a businessman who joined and benefited from the rise of the Nazi Party. He held fascist leaning ideals (people as resources, efficiency and profit over all else, etc.) and bribed officials to get his way, but he wasn’t overtly cruel. His experiences with the Jews forced to work for him gradually changed his perspective, and he took small steps to make their lives easier or safer—against the wishes of the Nazi government. Eventually, he reached the point that he decided to engage in treason to try to save as many as he could, not only spending his ill-gotten fortune on selfless bribes, but also risking his own life, freedom, and station. There are several scenes that emphasize what would be done to him if his plots were discovered. Schindler ultimately saves hundreds of Jews and is not destroyed for it. Those he saved even work to protect him from the consequences of his past deeds. But his final scene shows that Schindler is crushed by his own conscience and laments that he could have done more. He was introduced as an apathetic, greedy villain, and his gradual change to a man genuinely heartbroken by the genocide and remorseful for his participation was well-paced and cathartic. In particular, his role as a villain (a “bystander” profiting from genocide) contrasted well with his later choices (sacrificing his fortune to save those he exploited).

In addition, the villain switching sides does not mean that it’s intended as a redemption arc. Hans Landa in Inglourious Basterds absolutely betrayed the Nazis, but he did it to save his own hide and talked his way into a rather comfortable retirement over it. There was no internal crisis, no new belief system. Landa simply realized that he had a better chance at a preferred future, so he remorselessly served up people to be killed, just like in the opening scene. Nothing had changed. That worked wonderfully in a film about stopping violence with violence and the emotional dissatisfaction of letting vile people live after they had terrorized and slaughtered innocent people. So the protagonists carved a swastika into Landa’s forehead as a warning of who he was. Is any of that good? That isn’t even the right question for a Tarantino film, but again, it was not intended as a redemption arc; it was very clearly intended to mean that some people don’t change and we may have to let them live anyway.

Redemption arcs don’t suit every story or villain. They take a lot of narrative focus to pull off well, and many of the thematic implications can be handled in a protagonist’s arc anyway. A lot of writers tend to fuck up by making the protagonist’s forgiveness or approval a necessary part of the story, ignoring that they’ve then added a message that change is only legitimate when recognized by others. (Note: Schindler’s List dodges this because Schindler denies himself the catharsis of forgiveness.) That said, many audiences like that message. They like the idea that their permission is needed for a bad person to change. I have a strong aversion to that mentality, especially when it conflicts with other themes in the story.

Is the writer telling a story about redemption, or is it about a religious concept of sin and atonement? Forgiveness and acceptance? Is this really about change, or is it about punishing people who hurt your favorites? Change is something we do, and there is value in that even when there is no atonement, forgiveness, or punishment waiting at the end.

Villains should not be included in a story if any of the above causes distraction or discordance with the main plot line.

Villains aren’t necessary for every story. If you want to go with conflict structures, a person vs. world or person vs. self story doesn’t need a villain. Villains can be added to those stories, but they need to represent something about the world/self for that to make sense. They are too dramatic and time-consuming to toss in as an afterthought. If there is nothing else you take from this post, take this: if a villain doesn’t add substance to your story, don’t include one.

I can tell when the writer is just checking boxes. None of these things can be done well without a certain level of affection for both the art of storytelling and the story being told. It’s not even difficult; it just takes effort. There’s an incredible amount of stories out there to engage with, and I’m never going be pleased to put up with a writer’s checklist villain.

Write what you want, and if you don’t want to include a narrative device that requires effort, then don’t.

#villains #writing #this initial post is pretty generic but I’ll probably do some follow up breakdowns of CR and D20 villains #maybe other media sources but this blog is mostly those two

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